33 1/3 Series of books

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May have been discussed already (as M Matos prepares his own) but some of these books are out :

http://www.continuumbooks.com/series_details.cgi?sid=311

has anyone actually read one yet?

― Matt Sab (Matt Sab), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 14:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

hmm,i had heard reference to matos' sign o' the times book,but i didn't realise it was part of a series.
a few of the other books look interesting,are any of them any good?
also,are these books only published in america?

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 14:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

oh,my mistake,it says on the site they'll be out in the rest of the world after april 2004

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 14:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm not an impartial observer, but I got the first six and they look marvelous! Like little versions of the old Penguin series--they're pocket-sized and short, perfect for reading on trips or whatever. I've polished off the ones on Village Green Preservation Society (which I still haven't heard), Harvest, and Dusty in Memphis so far; the latter is my favorite. also, I'm not the only ILxor who has one of these--I'm especially looking fwd to Douglas Wolk's book on James Brown's Live at the Apollo, and though I'm sure Chris Ott would rather not be thought of as an ILxor, he's got one on Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures also coming.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 15:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

yeah i would be curious to read the dusty one,the mbv one,and the james brown one,as well as your own prince one

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 15:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

And the ABBA one!!!

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 15:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

I just kinda stumbled over these yesterday...picked up Joe Pernice's Meat is Murder...so far it's pretty neat....a little sappy and nostalgic.....but hey it's Meat is Murder...so it's perfect.

I like his writing...I love the album.

― ddb, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 16:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

That top link leads to a piece on the series which contains the line (A task which can be, as Elvis Costello famously observed, as tricky as dancing about architecture.)

Wasn't it Zappa who said this?

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 19:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Wasn't it Zappa who said this?

i think it's pretty well accepted that (a) both frank and elvis said this, (b) but various others (charles mingus, for example) said it way before they did, and (c) trying to figure out who exactly thought of it first is kind of like, ya know, dancing about architecture.

― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 19:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

Wasn't Zappa, I think. And wasn't Laurie Anderson, either...
A multitude of musicians have gladly (or wryly) quoted it again and again, but ...Damn, I wish I remembered which ish. of Ver Vire it was exactly where I saw the original source named a coupla years ago.

Hey, when will Douglas Wolk's book be out then?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 19:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

Um... I have to FINISH it first. But I believe I'm in the third batch.

Right now I'm writing a sequence about a bear that climbed a fence in Duluth right about the time James Brown was singing "I Don't Mind" and thereby came yay-close to starting World War III.

I can't WAIT to read Matos on Prince and Elisabeth Vincentelli on ABBA.

― Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 20:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Right now I'm writing a sequence about a bear that climbed a fence in Duluth right about the time James Brown was singing "I Don't Mind" and thereby came yay-close to starting World War III.

:::drool:::

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 21:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

also, you're not missing much on my end, believe me

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 21:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

Matos, are they going to revise the bio for you that's on the site? It doesn't mention your current position and says you still live in NYC.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 21:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

fuck, you're right. thanks!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 21:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

David Barker, who edits the series, has started up a blog about it:

http://33third.blogspot.com/

Enjoy!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 April 2005 13:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

Is anyone going to write about Stevie Wonder anytime soon?

― Eric von H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 April 2005 14:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

has anyone read the 33 1/3 Forever Changes book? I thought it was great--an album I've listened to a million times, but the author (can't recall his name at the moment) made me hear it in an entirely new way. There were moments where I thought he might be stretching things a bit too far--like when he began a long discussion of gnosticism--but in the end he pulled it all together rather astoundingly. anyway, it's the best one of these books I've read thus far.

― tylerw, Saturday, 9 April 2005 14:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

Cool..anything which might potentially make me like that album again sounds good..

― Masked Gazza, Saturday, 9 April 2005 14:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I bought four at once and Forever Changes is the last one I have left to read. I lost a bit of steam after reading the Village Green Preservation Society book which I thought was pretty dull. I couldn't decide whether it was the writing or just the fact that the Kinks themselves are pretty boring. I enjoyed the Piper at the Gates of Dawn book quite a bit though. I didn't think there would be anything new to say about Barrett/Floyd but he found a way to make it interesting. Anyway, thanks for reminding me that I need to pull out the Forever Changes book now.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 9 April 2005 15:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

how many of these books talk about the music in detail and aren't just sort of glossed "making of" things?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 April 2005 15:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

ok i totally want to check out franklin bruno's book.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 April 2005 15:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've only read Matos' book, but it certainly talks about the music in detail.

I'll probably read the Entroducing book.

― Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 9 April 2005 16:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

None of the three I've read (Piper, Village Green, VU) go very far beyond the realm of a making-of or a band bio that's focused on a specific period. That's not to say that they weren't worthwhile or entertaining to read if you're a fan of the album in question.

I also got the feeling (primarily from the VU book) that the writers were getting their one and only chance to write about a particular passion and as a result I felt like there was this barely constrained urge to branch out beyond the scope of the single album in question. Maybe my personal expectations for this type of book were off base but I think that for example the artist's personal life should barely if at all come into play.

I might be more interested in reading one by a writer who had already done a full biography of the artist in question so that the standard gossipy stuff and most common observations would already be out of the way. Maybe then the author would be forced to focus more deeply on the music in abstract terms and not worry about some of the more mundane details. But these criticisms are all very nitpicky and I'm sure I'll be ordering another batch soon.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Sunday, 10 April 2005 00:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

ok i totally want to check out franklin bruno's book.

The Armed Forces one? That's definitely on the top of my list. I'm optimistic because it's a pretty interesting choice out of the early Costello albums so I'm guessing he'll have something unique to say. A lot of the other picks are very classic-rock-y but maybe once those are out of the way the series will get more interesting.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Sunday, 10 April 2005 00:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

Michaelangelo, I was just telling my mom your SOTT story about imitating the 'Dirty Mind' cover with your Spiderman Underoos, etc. She got a *huge* hoot out of it. (She's 65.)

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Sunday, 10 April 2005 03:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm very very psyched to read Franklin's book too.

― Douglas (Douglas), Sunday, 10 April 2005 06:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Endtroducing one looks great. I love this:

Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what you think is the difference between turntablism and scratching?

Turntablism is the description of scratching that’s supposed to make people who don’t listen to hip-hop, sit up and go “Hmm, maybe it is real music.” Scratching, to me, is just what it is. Turntablism has this virtuosic aspect to it, and to me, that’s when things start to turn jazzy. And I’m not a huge fan of when things turn jazzy. Because when I think of jazzy, I think of Wynton Marsalis.

― Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 10 April 2005 08:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

i enjoyed Matos's book. Does pretty much everything: talks about each track in detail, the album in the context of the rest of Prince's discog, and relates it to his personal experiences at the time of release and thereafter. Couldn't HAVE wished for much more.

i saw Douglas's book in the shop the other day. Looked a bit dauntingly 'conceptual' on a quick flip through, what with all the headings and shit. But I'm sure it's a good read and i'll probably buy it. Anybody else read this?

― zebedee (zebedee), Sunday, 10 April 2005 13:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

Just to clarify, what I really liked is not so much the Wynton Marsalis diss. What's cool is that he actually treats "mak(ing) people who don't listen to hip-hop sit up and go 'Hmm, maybe it is real music.'" as a negative.

― Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 10 April 2005 16:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Z: I did read it and it is good. A Poe short story, too: you can down it in one sitting.

I should really put together a proposal for "Return to the 36 Chambers".

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 10 April 2005 16:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Did anyone hear anything about the Loveless book?

― Orange, Sunday, 10 April 2005 16:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

Don't know about the Loveless book, but all of these, if you were hoping, ain't happening:

Songs in the Key of Life, by Dave Hesmondhalgh
Parallel Lines, by Elisabeth Vincentelli
Three Feet High and Rising, by Brian Coleman
Tusk, by Stephin Merritt
Computer Love, by Michael Bracewell
Marquee Moon, by David Keenan
Master of Puppets, by Tom Bissell
The Basement Tapes, by Damon Krukowski

The editor/creator of the series, David Barker runs a blog about the series. Email him directly if you like:

http://33third.blogspot.com/

I finally read one of these. I think I picked a great place to start, Douglas Wolk's Live at the Apollo. It was really really good.

― Matt Sab (Matt Sab), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 15:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

Greatly enjoyed Meat Is Murder, the Joy Division one was more of a factual view but still very interesting, the Dusty one didn't work for me.

― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 15:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

God, I cannot wait for the In the Aeroplane over the Sea book. The excerpt and things I've read by the author seem like she really gets it spot on.

― PB, Wednesday, 27 July 2005 15:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

why aren't those ones happening?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 15:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

i just bought the James Brown too. not started it yet.

also got the ABBA one, which i devoured in a day. twas OK, wish Ms Vincentelli had spent fewer sentences justifying (or having to justify) the book's very existence. also i'm not sure she cracked the problem of how to order the narrative, though I accept it's a toughie.

― zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 15:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

according to the blog:

These are a few of the projects that - for various and sometimes complicated reasons - never made it to fruition. Some came very close to happening, others less so; but they all would have been fun.

― Matt Sab (Matt Sab), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 16:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

Don't know about the Loveless book, but all of these, if you were hoping, ain't happening:

Songs in the Key of Life, by Dave Hesmondhalgh

Why not?

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 16:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

For those ...

Matos' Sign O'The Times book's prince has been slashed (on Amazon at least) to $4.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0826415474/qid=1122928710/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-2999298-5726417?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

― Matt Sab (Matt Sab), Monday, 1 August 2005 19:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

I'm sorry to tell you that we've chosen not to sign up your proposal for the 33 1/3 series.

This has been a difficult process: we received dozens of very strong proposals from dozens of very good writers and it's a shame to have to turn down so many of you.

If you're interested, the 33 1/3 books we eventually decided to sign up are:

"If You're Feeling Sinister" by Scott Plagenhoef

"Aja" by Don Breithaupt

"Shoot Out the Lights" by Hayden Childs

"Pretty Hate Machine" by Daphne Carr

"Use Your Illusion" by Eric Weisbard

"Horses" by Phil Shaw

"Double Nickels on the Dime" by Mike Fournier

"Pink Moon" by Amanda Petrusich

"People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm" by Shawn Taylor

"Achtung Baby" by Stephen Catanzarite

"20 Jazz Funk Greats" by Drew Daniel

"The Dreaming" by Ann Powers

"Rid of Me" by Kate Schatz

"Another Green World" by Geeta Dayal

"Songs in the Key of Life" by Zeth Lundy

"Trout Mask Replica" by Kevin Courrier

"Let's Talk About Love" by Carl Wilson

"Lucinda Williams" by Anders Smith Lindall

"69 Love Songs" by LD Beghtol

“Marquee Moon” by Peter Blauner

“Swordfishtrombones” by David Smay

― that's so taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 26 January 2006 18:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

Congrats to Drew and Geeta! (Are there other ILMers on this list I don't know?)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 26 January 2006 20:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

ann powers is actually esteban buttez

― cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 January 2006 20:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

Scott P. has been around since the Greenspun days.

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 26 January 2006 20:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

i wish you could get these easily in book stores (AND NOT JUST IN THE AEROPLANE MURMUR THE SEA LIKE ROUND HERE).

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 26 January 2006 21:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

hey everybody read the frank bruno one and then try to make yrs like him cuz it is AWESOME

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 26 January 2006 21:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

i have only read 2

― cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 January 2006 21:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

the franklin bruno one is not only awesome, it is superhuman. one of my fave pieces of rock criticism ever.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 26 January 2006 22:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

yeah same here

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 26 January 2006 22:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

I loved that review he wrote of that indie-boy novel, so I guess I gotta get this book.

― Redd Harvest (Ken L), Thursday, 26 January 2006 22:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

ysi?

― cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 January 2006 22:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

DeRo disses Matos for doing (very well IMHO) what he himself does in like every review ever (poorly IEHO): http://www.suntimes.com/output/derogatis/sho-sunday-dero04.html

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 9 June 2006 17:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 June 2006 18:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

Jim Milonakis?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 9 June 2006 18:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

I found that one entertaining and was actually less satisfied with Michaelangelo Matos' self-indulgent look at Prince's "Sign o' the Times," which spent entirely too much time dwelling on how the author discovered the disc as a teenager in the Minneapolis suburbs.

So then I guess he didn't read the 100-odd pages in which Matos discussed Prince.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 9 June 2006 20:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

Shh, you're giving it away!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 20:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

"...he not only gives us the perfect adjective for Sly's dense epic ("swampy," indeed) but the nugget that this was a pioneering use of the beat box. (Who knew? I didn't.)"

DeRo is a FUCKING MORON.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 June 2006 20:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just finished the one on PAUL'S BOUTIQUE. It's only the third I've read thus far, but it's the one I've enjoyed the most.

― Terrible Cold (Terrible Cold), Friday, 9 June 2006 20:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

The one supposedly on the Replacements was AWFUL!

― Jeff LeVine (Jeff LeVine), Friday, 9 June 2006 21:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just finished the one on PAUL'S BOUTIQUE. It's only the third I've read thus far, but it's the one I've enjoyed the most.

Yeah, it's all info, no prose. A lot of the 33 1/3 books seem to forget how much people like that.

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 9 June 2006 22:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

personally speaking, i'd read a book that wasn't taking on yet another album from the canon. c'mon, guys! dig deeper!

― gear (gear), Friday, 9 June 2006 22:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

Christ, that quotation. Shakey OTM.

― David Bachyrycz (David Bachyrycz), Friday, 9 June 2006 22:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

c'mon, guys! dig deeper!

Someone should do Tom T. Hall's greatest hits.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 22:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 9 June 2006 22:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

(That was a "dig deeper" joke in case it wasn't clear. LOL @ self.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 9 June 2006 22:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just fell asleep.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

i've got an idea, fellas, let's create a book series in which we reinforce the canon some more.

seriously though, i realize the books have to sell, hence the more mainstream angle. i'm sure there are a ton of albums the writers would love to write about that aren't commercially viable for the publisher.

― gear (gear), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

ned you should pitch that one!

actually do you think they would let somebody self-33 1/3? if it was some famous musician?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Morrissey on...Morrissey."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

Morrissey did write a book actually! (didnt he?)

― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i think it was about the new york dolls or something

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

He founded the series in spirit!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 June 2006 23:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

i thought it was on James Dean, re: Moz's book

― that's so taylrr (ken taylrr), Saturday, 10 June 2006 02:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Morrissey on...Morrissey."

Morrissey is not attracted to Morrissey.

― jinx hijinks (sanskrit), Saturday, 10 June 2006 02:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

i'm sure there are a ton of albums the writers would love to write about that aren't commercially viable for the publisher.

Carl Wilson is writing one about Celine Dion's "Let's Talk About Love".

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 10 June 2006 02:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

You are all OTM regarding the Franklin Bruno Armed Forces book, but has anyone read Daphne A. Brooks' take on Grace? I found it largely disappointing for a number of reasons. For someone who's obviously deeply in love with the material and who has deeper access to the Buckley archives than most, she made some really frustrating, bizarre factual errors. Maybe I'm being overly-pedantic, but simple mistakes like misquoting lyrics kept me from enjoying and engaging in the book as much as I could have-- like I couldn't trust her after a certain point. Clearly, I'm an asshole, but did anyone else have problems with this?

― Jeff Reguil0n (Talent Explosion), Saturday, 10 June 2006 03:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Aeroplane book was excellent. The Pet Sounds book was not.

― Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Saturday, 10 June 2006 11:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

Somebody pitched to do Killed by Death Vol. 2 for the last round of books. I would have loved to have read that!

― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Saturday, 10 June 2006 15:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

And that Kick Out the Jams book that DeRo praises was the worst I've read in the series--no original info or thinking whatsoever, and blandly told.

― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Saturday, 10 June 2006 15:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

I wanna see a 33 1/3 tome on the Melvins' "Stag."

― Terrible Cold (Terrible Cold), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

I enjoyed the books for The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and There's a Riot Goin On out of this series a lot.

― Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

actually do you think they would let somebody self-33 1/3? if it was some famous musician?

This is more or less happening with LD Beghtol writing about 69 Love Songs. No idea how it's coming along; I haven't talked to him since the EMP Pop Conference.

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

mr sherburne on something miniMAL would be good.

― dh (djh), Monday, 12 June 2006 17:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just finished reading a new batch.

The Stone Roses one was okay, not much in the way of new info and insights really (though I did learn that what I previously thought was just a guitar string squeak in "Elizabeth My Dear" was really supposed to be a silenced gunshot.)

The Riot one was excellent. I especially liked his first chapters talking from the point of view of someone who was there.

I had high hopes for the Endtroducing one since it's one of the few (only?) hip-hop books but it was really just one long interview with Shadow. Very boring, gross hyperbole at the beginning (the author says something along the lines of Endtroducing not sounding like anything before or since type crap) and Davis himself is not the most interesting of interviewees.

The VU and Nico had some informative info but Joe Harvard's writing style and attitude just rubbed me the wrong way.

― Viz (Viz), Monday, 12 June 2006 17:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

Anyone read the " Zeppelin IV" one? I've only read the one on Bowie's "Low" and liked it.

― Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Monday, 12 June 2006 17:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

Zeppelin one is kind of over-the-top and fascinating, I recommend it

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 12 June 2006 17:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

I actually really liked the Shadow one.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

"I actually really liked the Shadow one."

For this series, I've really enjoyed both the personal takes and insights gained from repeated close listenings that the authors bring to their books and the Endtroducing one was more like "here's an oral history of DJ Shadow" and it didn't focus enough on Endtroducing.

I think the format that was used for the Paul's Boutique book would have served Endtroducing a lot more, ie. context, process, funny stories behind the samples...

― Viz (Viz), Monday, 12 June 2006 19:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

I've read the In The Aeroplane one (PHENOMENAL) and the OK Computer one (just "meh"). I've been meaning to buy Doolittle and The Stone Roses and can't fucking wait for Loveless to come out. Now we just need Spiderland, Ege Bamyasi, Dummy, Suicide/First Album, ...I Care Because You Do, Neu! 1/2/'75 (you never really can choose one, can you?), Playing with Fire, Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space, etc etc etc.

― less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Saturday, 15 July 2006 06:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

Dleone should write all the kosmische/prog 33 1/3s

― Roque Strew (RoqueStrew), Saturday, 15 July 2006 20:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

haha you know i was wondering why they turned my heathen earth pitch down forever and i just noticed that drew snagged 20 jazz funk. bastard.

― david allen grier (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 15 July 2006 21:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

What about EXILE ON MAIN STREET?

― reynard the fox (Pearl Hooch), Saturday, 15 July 2006 21:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

I have Piper at the Gates of Dawn, which is really good, and OK Computer, which is less good

I'd like to read more though. I'd most like to read ones that either give a lot of details about the making of the record or do close critical analysis rather than ones that are more off-the-wall in their theorizing. Which ones would suit me?

― Matt Olken (Moodles), Saturday, 15 July 2006 22:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

Now we just need.. Ege Bamyasi...

I pitched it and got rejected.

― Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Saturday, 15 July 2006 22:44 (6 years ago) Permalink

What?!? Pitched to and rejected by whom, may I ask? They'll fucking do ABBA but not Can? What if we all sent in emails to Continuum requesting an Ege Baymasi release?

― less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Sunday, 16 July 2006 01:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

The editor of 33 1/3 is David Barker.

― Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Sunday, 16 July 2006 01:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

Wait... Dleone, as in Dominique Leone? Is he actually on here or something?

― less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Sunday, 16 July 2006 02:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Once you summon him
he will soon appear IN FIRE
HOLDING A GOATS HEAD

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 16 July 2006 02:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

the doolittle one got reviewed in the nytbr.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 16 July 2006 03:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

They'll fucking do ABBA but not Can?

I don't see why this is so hard to believe.

And yes, Dominique Leone posts on ILX.

Jesus, ILM these days is a chore.

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 16 July 2006 05:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

they're not commissioning books on the value of the music alone, regardless of the pitch and the writer's talent/experience. use your brain.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 16 July 2006 06:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

furthermore, abba is better than can.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 16 July 2006 06:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

at least at bar mitzvahs.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 16 July 2006 06:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

bat mitzvahs may be another story.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 16 July 2006 06:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

ideal bat mitzvah music = the bats. obviously.

― so hongro, so angry (haitch), Sunday, 16 July 2006 07:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

My Bar Mitzvah was Star Wars themed.

― Steve Go1dberg (Steve Schneeberg), Sunday, 16 July 2006 16:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

the unknown pleasures book by chris ott was a waste of time. only about 20 pages about the album, the rest about the whole career of joy div. i don't think i learnt anything new which i didn't know already. the worst is that ott doesn't seem to be enthusiastic about joy div's music. i never want to read a lukewarm book like that again.

concerning joy div books there is the highly recommended ian curtis biography by mick middles. personal, insightful and touching. with lots of typos but that makes it even more loveable.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 05:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

Are they going to do any more of these?

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

ahh, yeah i was gonna say, mick muddles may be a nice man, but he's barely literate.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

I've enjoyed the Bowie/Low one and Floyd/Piper one. Both strong on historical background and critical analysis, both very well written. I also bought Radiohead/OK Computer, but it didn't gel, too drily academic. I've read that one on Eno/Another Green World is in the works, I'm looking forward to that.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

Apparently there's a 69 Love Songs one due out soon, written by L.D. Beghtol, who sings on some of that album. (?) Also the "Loveless" book is finished, although I'm sure someone said that ages ago.

― meritocracy (spencerman), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 17:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

Finished, and it's very grand.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 17:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

The only one I've actually read is the Matos one, although I've bought two others (Murmur and In the Aeroplane...) as gifts.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 17:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

Oddly, I bought Murmur and Aeroplane as gifts for myself the other day. £4 in Fopp!
The Murmur one is excellent. The in the studio stuff is fascinating - Easter and Dixon were brilliant producers - and the musings on Southern Gothic and the album cover are well thought out, imaginative and thought provoking.
The Replacements one by Colin Meloy was likeable enough as an unpretentious bit of growing up as an college rock fan in the 80s nostalgia, but not so good as an album analysis.

― Stew (stew s), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 17:39 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I don't have a lot of interest in R.E.M., but I'd sort of like to read that one just because J. Niimi's a good, engaging writer.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 17:44 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm going to DIY my own 33 1/3rd on Pretty Boy Floyd's Leather Boyz With Electric Toyz. Continuum can come to my pad if they have a problem with it.

― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 17:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

Making noise!
TONIGHT!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 17:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Niimi is very engaging. He goes into some detail in discussing the song construction and performance and studio techniques yet it never becomes dry and muso-ish. In fact, it's given me loads of ideas for my band's demos. Did you know, for example, that the weird thunderclaps at the beginning of We Walk are actually pool balls recorded at high speed, played back at normal pitch and fed through an early digital reverb unit? Wow! Also excellent on how they doubled up instruments to get interesting textures and effects.

― Stew (stew s), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 18:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

I've been tempted on several occasions by the one on Paul's Boutique.

― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 19:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

I got the VU one at a used book place when I was in cali.
This probably the whole of it:

"Musically, the Velvets are the
daddies of us all--and by "us," I mean anyone who has played in a rock
band since 1977 or thereabouts, the year that Punk crested the hill and
changed the music industry forever. Their albums were like alchemical
tracts that held secret formulas, passed from one musician to the next,
until "Punk Happened," as the button says, completing the job the
Velvet Underground started."

So Velvet Underground & Nico is your Big Mac and any semirevered afterworks like Unknown Pleasure or Loveless are just kid's meals. the new ones with milk and carrots.

But I'm wondering if that's what all the books give you, a THIS IS IT AND ALL THERE IS LEFT of anything credible.
i.e. I'll read Loveless and it'll convince me of the untimeliness of so-called 60s rock purveyors.
or something.

I think I just want to get another one because I like the size. It's nice and tiny for metro rides.
I might like to read ABBA one, if that's any good. I have no interest in NMH, though I'm wondering if I'm mistaken. I think Borders has Live at the Apollo so maybe that one.

― mox twelve (Mox twleve), Friday, 15 September 2006 08:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

and I realize that quote says nothing, note, the book is not much informative. metro rides.

― mox twelve (Mox twleve), Friday, 15 September 2006 08:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

i can never find these books in shops.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Friday, 15 September 2006 09:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Apollo" is quite an electrifying read; "Sign o' the Times" is my (other) favorite.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 15 September 2006 09:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

The Entroducing... one was a great and very informative read. I found the style a little stilted but that's more to do with the fact that it's based around interviews over a period of time with Shadow. I thought it was very insightful and definitely fun to read how he did it all and where the passion came from. IIRC the author got all the self-referential crap out of the way in the intro and from then on it was about Shadow.

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Friday, 15 September 2006 10:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

I have no idea what mox is saying but the VU book was horrible. Systematic in the worst way possible, talking about the making of the album in purely social terms without giving me any interesting muiscological stuff, no apparent critical analyses, and lots of biases-stated-as-fact. Of course it was so bad I stopped reading it a third of the way through so maybe it got better but I wasn't willing to trust it that far.

― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 15 September 2006 14:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

man I pitched Vision Creation Newsun, but they said it wasn't popular enough :/

― Dominique (dleone), Friday, 15 September 2006 14:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

i'd definitely get more of these if you could find them in shops, though i suspect even if you could the ones i'd be looking for would be on the less likely end to get stocked. any further reccomendations on ones that work well as books instead of extended liner notes/dull bio, making of etc.? loved armed forces though i don't think i'd suggest it to anyone w/ no taste for the album, loved loved zoso would reccomend to anyone.

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 15 September 2006 18:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

man I pitched Vision Creation Newsun, but they said it wasn't popular enough :/

Hey, I pitched Violator and got the same answer! (Well, presumably the same form letter.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 15 September 2006 18:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

wow that's insane, there's a HUGE market for a book about violator!

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 15 September 2006 18:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

I don't really get why you would buy more if they were in shops. I mean, maybe you hate Amazon or something, but most indie rekkid stores will order anything you want AND HAVE THEM DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR SO YOU DON'T CHOKE ON THE PERVASIVE BAND-SMELL of said store.

Or are you referring to those ~~evil, corporate~~ new-fangled bookstores where you can sit there all day and just read anything they have without buying it blount?

― don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 15 September 2006 19:59 (6 years ago) Permalink

Impulse purchases. Any actual purchasable object right there at your fingertips is far more tempting than a mere image on your computer screen.

― M. Agony Von Bontee (M. Agony Von Bontee), Friday, 15 September 2006 20:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

MVB OTM

― Run Ruud Run (Ken L), Friday, 15 September 2006 20:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, when I bought the NMH at this indie bookshop near my place, I was on my way to the counter to check out and was like "Oh, I didn't know they stocked 33 1/3 books here, hmmmm, let's see ... oh they have In the Aeroplane ... huh, it's Megan's birthday this week ... ah, what the hell."

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 15 September 2006 20:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

don i don't frequent indie rock record stores and on amazon i tend to go for more worthwhile fare than 'the true story behind the making of chairs missing!' (eg. will shortz presents giant collosal sudoku vol 2). pure impulse buy (i don't order porn online either)(i have ordered pizza online before).

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 15 September 2006 21:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

What I meant to comment on with that quote was the book's praise without substance babble on. Just, on and on. mindwashing you into the brillance and innovation of the band and their only masterpiece and how the VU & N sound is now permanantly infused into every single rock song by every single band from a little after that until today.
And Eppy I agree, your critique was pretty on, the book didn't really get much more indepth in its latter parts.
It also feels like something you wouldn't want to give to an indiegod high schooler because he'd use it as his new pretentious cred piece. 'Man, the strokes, nothing. The Velvets are the daddies all those guys.' hah, or something.

And, what, that's dumb, VCN would be awesome to read about. It's dumb because it would probably sell just as well if not better than the rest of them. Like, all these books, their market have probably already read a ton of stuff on whoever they want to read about anyway. Who IS reading them? The people on this thread? So, not popular enough would be a plus. Books are not even in stores.
anyway. Whatever. In theory they're cool little companion pieces the music collection.

― mox twelve (Mox twleve), Friday, 15 September 2006 21:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah my biggest problem with this series is that the albums I would be interested in reading books about are ones which would not sell at all. Actually I am not even sure what albums would make good 70-80 page books. I love Forever Changes and Piper At The Gates of Dawn, for example, but I've read so much about those albums and Love and Syd Barrett-era Floyd in general that I can't imagine those books have much new to say to me. And a lot of great records have already seem exhaustively written about so it seems a real challenge to find an album widely known enough to warrant this treatment, yet not so extensively studied that the piece is just a retread of other pieces.

All that said Vision Creation Newsun is an album I would definitely be interested in reading more about.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 15 September 2006 21:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

Actually is there a good book on Agharta/Pangaea or on Miles electric period in general? I would devour that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 15 September 2006 21:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

i much prefer the idea of compelling writers talking about their relationship to an album, than compelling writers talking about the creation/origin/details of an album. but i'm peculiar.

in a lot of ways, it wouldn't matter if i liked the record or not.

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 15 September 2006 21:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

alex:

http://www.amazon.com/Miles-Beyond-Electric-Explorations-1967-1991/dp/0823083608/sr=1-14/qid=1158360979/ref=sr_1_14/104-1248919-2000735?ie=UTF8&s=books

― gear (gear), Friday, 15 September 2006 21:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

Woo hoo. I will look for that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 15 September 2006 22:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

someone needs to get on that shaggs one

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 15 September 2006 23:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

(Personally awaiting the Joni volume)

― Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Saturday, 16 September 2006 02:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

wow that's insane, there's a HUGE market for a book about violator!

You're telling me!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 03:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

man I pitched Vision Creation Newsun, but they said it wasn't popular enough :/
-- Dominique (d_leon...), September 15th, 2006 3:55 PM. (later)

I'd like to figure out how much Dominique would've expected to get paid for a project such as this, so that I may just save up or get on a payment plan or something and he can just write it for me.

― Period period period (Period period period), Saturday, 16 September 2006 04:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

xpost

Yes, the rationale behind the rejection of "Violator" (not popular enough) makes no sense ... it's sold more copies than probably 90% of the other albums featured in the series. I guess "not popular enough" is code for "the way we see it, faggy synth pop fans don't read rock-crit".

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 16 September 2006 16:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

Well, I don't want to get too much into it or anything -- obv. I was disappointed but I've moved on to thinking about other projects and things. The fact that they chose to do Pretty Hate Machine but not Depeche was a bit surprising to me seeing as early Trent *is* Depeche crossed with Wax Trax, but keep in mind that quite easily the proposal for that was just a really great one in comparison to a lot of others, including mine!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 16:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

(Which is in part why I'm assuming the 'same form letter' response -- Continuum sent out a batch one to everyone whose proposals were turned down, and I didn't ask any further about it, where maybe Dominique did and got something more specific.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 16:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

In re: Abba/Can thing above:

I felt sure there was one about Tago Mago. No?

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 16:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

xpost

Not to say that Continuum decided to pick either NIN *or* DM, but I can certainly see the rationale for choosing PHM over Violator. There's a lot of mileage to be had from arguing that NIN came out of nowhere and sold a couple million records and "took the mainstream by surprise" or whatever, all of it happening before grunge got credit for doing the exact same thing (and with 100000X more press and airplay). I'm not sure you can argue that with DM, since they were a well-established band at that point. Plus, the same people who would buy a DM book are also likely to be interested in an NIN book.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 16 September 2006 16:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

violator doesn't have that obvious rockcrit cachet (bar ilm of course)

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 16 September 2006 16:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

btw the armed forces one was pretty good, matos' was ok, and all the other ones i looked at were awful

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 16 September 2006 16:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

violator doesn't have that obvious rockcrit cachet (bar ilm of course)

It's never had an obvious one but it's had a sometimes-grudging one. But even Rolling Stone did a positive main (but not cover) story on the band when that came out, a couple of years after they reviewed 101 in a way that could be described as 'cavemen meet aliens and try to tell fellow cavemen about the sparkly lights in the sky.'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 17:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

OBVIOUS ROCKCRIT CACHE

LIKE ABBA GOLD

― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Saturday, 16 September 2006 17:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

HI DERE IN WAHT WORLD IS ABBA NOT MADE ROCKCRIT CACHE?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

Clear cache now?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

Did you guys query them with possibilities before you sent in your proposal? I was told someone else already had Rid of Me and the other one I proposed was too recent, so I went with one with almost no rock-crit cred whatsoever.

― Eppy (Eppy), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Danielrf, it's not OBVIOUSROCKCRITCACHE

Big Difference.

― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

snap

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

ooh sexy.

Anyway, this may be crazy talk, but maybe many books got turned down because of reasons other than the albums' popularities and seminal statuses.

Maybe they were't impressed the writers' work?

Maybe they felt too uncomfortable because they didn't know someone who knew someone who knew that writer?

Maybe someone in the committee had "this bands is the sucks" veto power?

These decisions were not made by science. I'm not claiming they're just arbitrary, reactionary, or dumb opinions either. But they boil down to opinions.

Unless 33 1/3rd has a patent on album review books (which I don't think they do, although surely they have it on the name), if there's such a demand for more album review books, and the series is selling well, is there not a possibility of an alternative publishing source?

― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

are they really "album review boks" tho?

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

books obv

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

Of course not, but they're pitched and packaged like that, which is the crux of the basis in which they're selected. Someone may have the greatest things to say about Aerosmith, but if the writer chose Rock In A Hard Place, then that's going to lessen the chances had the writer not chose Toys In The Attic or Rocks, for example.

― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

(I mean "of course not" in the "they often talk about peripheral things besides the album itself or things related to it", not "they never talk about the album".)

― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Saturday, 16 September 2006 18:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

some of my favorite books in the series barely talk about their albums!

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

I don't get that. Not that you would like something "creative" Michaelangelo that's cool but why the author would tie it to an album in the first place? Why not write a freestanding novella or memoir or whatever? What about readers who want something linear?

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

at some point, the editor(s) taste is reflected in album selection, determining writers, etc. so it's all pretty subjective in terms of why x instead of y or I suppose why one album is dealt w/factually and starightforwardly while another isn't.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

I haven't read these but it does seem like there's a bit of a slacker aesthetic to the series in general - you know, that it's not about sort of writing *real books* but instead just these little things. Curious how much the slacker context infects the content.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:44 (6 years ago) Permalink

Re. slacker context: rock criticism stuck in the nineties.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

haha, the best is dom's review of some record where he talks about almost picking up a middle aged floozy in a pub instead of the music. can't top that 33 1/3!

― timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

There's hardly a shortage of linear writing about albums available, and anyway I'm talking about maybe two books out of 34. (Dusty in Memphis primarily.)

"Slacker aesthetic"--huh?

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

If 33 1/3 want a full length version of that "Meds" review, they need to hit me up ASAP.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

I just do not see the cultural heft to these albums such that entire books need to be devoted to them. The series strikes me as having an unambitious context in general.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tim's proposal to write up Living in the Material World was sadly rejected.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

You know that's my least favorite George Harrison album. (I did not propose a book for this series.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

hahahahaha "cultural heft"

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

rosie o'donnell really has taken the view hostage.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:39 (6 years ago) Permalink

the Armed Forces, Live at the Apollo, and OK Computer ones (to leave it at the ones published so far) are very ambitious. maybe you should actually look at a couple of them sometime, Tim.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

haha, the best is dom's review of some record where he talks about almost picking up a middle aged floozy in a pub instead of the music. can't top that 33 1/3!

John COUGAR mellencamp

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

I mean, all these albums are kinda garbagey, really - that's part of the appeal of rock and roll, pop music, etc. in its glory. Collapses distinctions between the trivial and the awesome and all that. But here's this series as another example of yet more stodgy canonizing goin' on. I don't mean any of this as a reflection on any of the books in particular - I ain't read 'em - but, yes, I find the idea for the series to be dull and unambitious - a step above a desert island disc thang where it's supposed to be like Greil Marcus with less intellectual rigor or something.

xposts - I've seen a few in stores and again reiterating: not meant as a reflection on anyone's work in particular. just about the idea for the series in general.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

how do you know there is less intellectual rigor if you haven't read any!!

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

i think it's a good idea for a series. i like rekkerds.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

how many great-movies books do people make these (bullshit) complaints about, I wonder?

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

Any essay praising Wes Anderson, actually.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

and I'm sorry, Tim, but whether you're talking about anyone's work in particular or not, the point is, here you are, a guy who talks about music all day long on the internet, sneering at a series of books that do the same as "dull and unambitious." kinda pot-meets-kettle, isn't it? (this would be true of any ILM regular doing the same thing, obv.)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

"I'll sit and talk about crappy psych-rock with people I've never met for hours, but someone publishing a books series based on the same impulse? Dude, that is beyond the pale."

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

dude, the only crappy psych-rock album theyve published a 33 1/3 about so far is entroducing

― katie quirk (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

hahahahaha

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

(And I've always argued it's goth -- your least favorite genre!)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

oof. yeah.

― katie quirk (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

hey are there any METAL 33 1/3's yet?

― katie quirk (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

Metal Box?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

Leather Boys hits the streets sometime in the future.

I guarantee 100% hyperballed-to-the-wall reading akshun.

― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Chapter 1: The Part I Played in the Mascara Masquerade"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

how do you know there is less intellectual rigor if you haven't read any!!

for about the fourth time, talking about the general impression of what the idea for the series was. haven't been inspired to read any of 'em yet but i'll be sure to let you guys know.

here you are, a guy who talks about music all day long on the internet, sneering at a series of books that do the same as "dull and unambitious." kinda pot-meets-kettle, isn't it?

no actually spent four years recently working just about every single night while in grad school then working taking care of young child etc. on m.a. thesis on the aesthetics of late '60s psych - about a year and a half of just listening and taking notes, seven months of organizing 400+ pages of notes producing roughly 180 page document actually discussing content of about 400 songs from the period all organized around central theme (psychedelic music as late manifestation of aesthetics associated with surrealism) but whatevs, dude.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Warning: no cultural heft.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

yes let's defensively turn that into a silly meme disregarding my larger point.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

sneering at a series of books that do the same as "dull and unambitious."

this is absurd, too. any criticism or questioning when it's from the other side is obviously sneering isn't it, michaelangelo?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tim, I work on a regular basis with grad students in a similar situation to you, married with kids, huge projects, dealing with all sorts of stuff eating up their time. And I can say, quite frankly, that if I was talking with one of them and they used being as an excuse for dismissing someone's work out of hand as being 'dull and unambitious' without having read it, I'd think they were full of it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

ok for fifth time now, I AM NOT DISMISSING ANYONE'S WORK. i thought the idea for the series was dull. if anyone produced a truly great book in the context then yay.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

if you could stop dismissing everyone's work, that would be cool, too

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

― timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 16 September 2006 23:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

ooh, DRAMA. (this is juicy).

― Wrinklepossum's Awesome Blossom (Wrinklepaws), Saturday, 16 September 2006 23:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

I just thought it was strange, and inconsistent, to have a series of short books dedicated to a very specific subject and wind up with some of them not being about the subject at all!

An anthology like Stranded ismore about the writers and their choices where the 33 1/3 series just by looking at the format is nominally about the albums. Maybe the pay is so low for 33 1/3 and you don't get royalities so you basically can write whatever you want ;-) But I like listening to albums way more than reading about em so take this with an extra shaker of salt.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 17 September 2006 01:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

"I just thought it was strange, and inconsistent, to have a series of short books dedicated to a very specific subject and wind up with some of them not being about the subject at all!"

why so strange!? there are so many ways to approach a subject.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 17 September 2006 01:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

I mean, all these albums are kinda garbagey, really

I feel bad about saying this ;'-(

I just think there's an inherent trashiness to pop music and it's there regardless of how massive something ends up being. So that's a part of why canonizing in pop music literature (and certainly this book series is hardly the worst offender) feels stodgy to me. Naturally, the conservatism of a lot of canonizing in the literature is the most annoying part.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 17 September 2006 02:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

x-post

maybe I'm being too literal-minded here, or just playing armchair editor again. but I sense a big disconnect between the tight editorial focus of the series overall and the apparently discursive and/or digressive approach taken by some writers. and I'm not saying those individual books don't work, hey I haven't read em either, I'm trying to make a bigger point about rock criticism or music writing or whatever you want to call it (saddle up hobby horse). After 25 plus years of reading (and writing) this stuff I've decided the Lester Bangs and Greil Marcus style/tradition of "ambitious" or adventurous music writing is exhausted, a dead end that stops writers from developing and frightens off many smart readers.

maybe this is a product of being a music critic for many years while remaining kinda ignorant about music...not that I ever seriously wanted to be a guitar player more than a good writer...it's more like if I read a book about one of my fave albums I'd want to learn about the songwriting, recording, the musicians' experience etc.

of course Scott's right, there are many ways to address a subject, but I think a lot of pop music writing ignores its subject at times.

can you imagine buying a book about the movie Carrie and then reading not about Brian DePalma but the author's own prom nightmare?

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 17 September 2006 11:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

But come on you dudes, books that like 'explain' all the music on yr fave rave disc for ya are like SOOOOOO NOT ROCK AN ROLL, you should just go with the flo like that waitress Alice

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 17 September 2006 12:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

Boy, albums like Ys and Hissing Fauna, Are You the Destroyer hitting me at the same time I'm talking about garbagey-ness as inherent in pop music and questioning Matos' comparison of books about movies or books about books to books about "pop music" albums. I take it all back, o my brothers and sisters!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 17 September 2006 19:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

Woke up feeling bad about all this so I apologize for the ugliness. We all have our perspectives on the state of pop music criticism and really all I was saying was that I wasn't crazy about the idea for this series.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

Fair nuff...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tim, I didn't think you were attacking anyone at all. I just thought it odd that you found the cast of the thing unambitious; if anything, it's a blank slate--the level of ambition for each book depends on what the writers bring to it. Signals cross sometimes; it's fine.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

Did some research on this series, in light of some of the comments here - based on the 5 books I've read so far (Velvets, Kinks, Beastie Boys, James Brown, Led Zeppelin), and (admittedly not always believable) customer/other reviews on amazon.com and a few other bits of Google-info Don't know if any one will find this useful, but whatever!

Kinks Village Green - very on-message, a bit of cultural background
Unknown Pleasures - more a potted history of JD than about the album
Murmur - a combination of recording history and interpretation, very highly regarded by some
Marquee Moon - was this ever even published??
Meat is Murder - "fiction", not about the album at all
Aeroplane Over the Sea - focused, apparently inspirational to some!
Velvets and Nico - about the album, writing sometimes clumsy
Let It Be (Beatles) - totally on-message, recording sessions, etc
OK Computer - somewhat dry, musicological, academic, mostly disliked
Forever Changes - perhaps pretentious, mostly lyrical analysis
Piper at the Gates - focused, some interviews, possibly a bit dull
Harvest - a straight telling of the album's creation
Exile on Main St. - good, vivid, a few personal anecdotes from Buffalo Tom singer
Pet Sounds - focused, but a bit too personal/emotion-based for some
Endtroducing - almost all one long interview with Josh Davis
Electric Ladyland - focused, good on guitars, nothing very new
Music from Big Pink - a novella about a drug dealer who hangs out with The Band
Let It Be (Replacements) - a short memoir by the dude from the Decembrists, not about the album at all
Kick Out the Jams - some love this, some find it boring, but it seems like a straight history of the MC5's beginnings
Led Zep IV - pretentious, overanalytical, and awesome!
Low - focused, historical, very strong
Grace - I can't tell! It's either really good or very bad.
Dusty in Memphis - random, tangential, about the South - both loved and hated
Sign Of the Times - partly autobiographical, but mostly about the album itself, and that part of Prince's career
Paul's Boutique - very sharp, very smart, all about the making of the album
Ramones - very good on punk history and the album itself
Doolittle - lots of interviews with Frank Black, journalistic, good on lyrics and surreaslism
Born in the USA - not sure about this one - seems to have been ignored by most people
Armed Forces - an A-Z of entries, very focused but too dry for some
Abba Gold - basically a potted history of Abba themselves - weird
Live at the Apollo - very cool retelling of James Brown's live show, interspersed with some stuff about the Cuban Missle Crisis, etc
Aqualung - written by a British professor; no idea
There's a Riot Goin' On - solid, about the album, and a little creative
The Stone Roses - not sure: pretty straightforward analysis, I think.

― meritocracy (spencerman), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 16:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

I really want to There's A Riot Goin' On one.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 16:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

i want to see some albums written about that didn't come from every top 50 list ever : (

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 16:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

I think the scope of this series, both from a content and a style standpoint, is fairly obvious. I'm kind of enthralled with the concept, even though I don't like some of the ones I've read and felt like others really didn't necessarily serve the series all that well.

― don weiner (don weiner), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 17:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

When are the "20 Jazz Funk Greats" and "Another Green World" coming out?

― T. Weiss (Timmy), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 17:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

They're seeking submissions again.

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 8 January 2007 03:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

Well I'll be darned.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 January 2007 03:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

Hey Ned, what ever happened to that Marooned book?

― showed that a nuts internet was only worth 78,000 hoosteens (Hoosteen), Monday, 8 January 2007 03:39 (6 years ago) Permalink

Will be published in June.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 January 2007 03:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

Sweetness.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Monday, 8 January 2007 03:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

And Ned, have you pre-orded the Loveless book ? (I have.)

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 8 January 2007 03:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

I read it in manuscript form last April. It's quite excellent.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 January 2007 03:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

Fucker. Thanks for emailing me that.

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 8 January 2007 04:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

Thanks, Ned!

― Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Monday, 8 January 2007 04:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

x-post -- *bows* Mike M. was kind enough to offer it to me to read before last year's EMP conference, which I did so we could talk about it briefly there. It is all one could hope for and will be very much worth the wait.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 January 2007 04:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

So psyched for Zeth Lundy's take on Songs in the Key of Life. If anyone had to get that gig over me -- and he did -- I'm glad it was Zeth, he's brilliant and good-hearted and cool as hell.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 8 January 2007 04:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

Even if it weren't worth the wait, I would read it and say it was.

Unless it was like that dreadful OK Computer book on 33 1/3.

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 8 January 2007 04:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

one of the best part of reading these books (for me, anyway), is going to the albums and listening to them again with such a fresh set of ears.

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 8 January 2007 04:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm in the middle of "Doolittle" now. I absolutely adored the "In the Aeroplane" one. And yes, it totally gives you a completely new perspective on the album.

― less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Monday, 8 January 2007 05:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

The non-rock African American musicians profiled are mainly legends---James Brown, Sly Stone, Stevie Wonder, there aren't too many more, while the rock folks can be less influential. Oh well, I guess that's what sells (and I do want to read more of 'em anyway).

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Monday, 8 January 2007 06:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

The Who Sell Out book is great.

― Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Monday, 8 January 2007 15:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

I just got done reading "Loveless." I ate the fucker in a day.

Nice work, Mike. You did the album proud. Fantastic, and I look forward to reading Ned's take in "Marooned."

― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 18 January 2007 00:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

Told ya. :-)

The Alan McGee bit is the greatest moment of unintentional (on his part) comedy I've read in a *long* time.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 January 2007 01:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

Alan McGeen has always been funny like that.

― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 18 January 2007 01:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

ohh thanks a lot!!!

i've gotten very little feedback just yet so this super means a lot. i was worried that maybe it's to self-indulgent/ referential, or that the delays had messed up the thing's "flow," or... you know, just worried and feeling insecure about it!

anyway, i can't wait to read the one on 'who sell out' as it's totally one of my top five favorite albums ever and i can't say that i know much about it, either.

― Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Thursday, 18 January 2007 03:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

Oh, the "Sell Out" one's really great. Lots of pirate-radio info, too. Looking forward to reading yours, Mike, and seeing you at Sonic Boom.

― A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Thursday, 18 January 2007 10:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

the alan mcgee bit? ( i know i know i should buy it and maybe read it myself...)

― cw (cww), Thursday, 18 January 2007 11:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

what about mcgee? you mean the one line email i got back from him in reply to an interview, or what i had to say about him in general?

― Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Thursday, 18 January 2007 11:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

you mean the one line email i got back from him in reply to an interview

Yes, my friend.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 January 2007 13:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm just finishing the Grace book and I love it. I'm preferring the more over-the-top gushy ones than the dryer studio who plays what ones really.

Has anyone read the 69 Love Songs one yet? I picked it up but haven't read it but it looks like a compendium more than anything else.

― Viz (Viz), Thursday, 18 January 2007 17:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

Mike! The Loveless book is wonderful. Thanks so much. It's made me go back and -yeeeah - fall in love with them again.

It also made me want to take a time machine back to the Maxwell's and City Gardens (Trenton, NJ) shows I saw them play. Oh, and one glorious one at The Ritz in NYC where people swarmed out during "You Made Me Realize" . Colm was a wonder to behold during that song. Cheers!

― Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Thursday, 25 January 2007 01:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

ohh, thanks a lot lot lot. and we must have been at the same shows, except i think for some reason i missed the ritz one? i can't remember.

anyway, it's funny but i could stand to wait a few more years to hear it again! hah.

― Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Thursday, 25 January 2007 01:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

Heheh. The natural response to overkill. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 January 2007 01:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

I just got Ric Menck's Notorious Byrd Brothers one in the mail today (finally). Aside from spelling Herb Pederson's name wrong within the first few pages it looks pretty cool.

I had already finished Einarson's exhaustive Gene Clark book in the time since I pre-ordered this and I don't imagine it can compare to that. But hey, I loves me some Ric... so I will be devouring this over the next day or two. Will report back or whatev. but I thought some people might want to know that this one is out and this thread was just sitting here all serendipitously and shit so there ya go.

― Saxby D. Elder (Saxby D. Elder), Thursday, 25 January 2007 01:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

I tried to buy Court and Spark the other day, but the bookstore said it wasn't out yet...?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 25 January 2007 02:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

I WAS AT THAT RITZ SHOW.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 25 January 2007 02:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

I don't think people "swarmed out," though. "You Made Me Realise" (eventually) stopped the moshers, outlasted the bird-flippers, and thinned the crowd a little, but people stayed, maybe to prove how bad-ass they were.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 25 January 2007 02:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

Another yes vote for Loveless. Really moves.

― Make a Beck Song #1 (M Matos), Thursday, 25 January 2007 02:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

I tried to buy Court and Spark the other day, but the bookstore said it wasn't out yet...?

I'm getting a promo copy, so it should be out soon.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 25 January 2007 03:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

OK, I am ordering the LOVELESS too. McGonigal is always worth a go.

― Saxby D. Elder (Saxby D. Elder), Thursday, 25 January 2007 04:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

"You gotta buy the Loveless 33 1/3, Jimmy. Do it for me....McGonigal!"

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Thursday, 25 January 2007 04:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

I know I stayed because I LOVED them -- hell, putting myself through YMMR all those times was a joy. However, in retrospect I must say, in my best old man voice: Damn. They were loud.

So, when's Geeta's ENO book coming?

― Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Thursday, 25 January 2007 06:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

Damn. They were loud.

Precisely why I loved 'em. Among other things. As I mutter about in Marooned, the version of YMMV at The Final Show was 35 minutes long.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 January 2007 06:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

I like the "Low" book a lot. Really want ot check out the loveless book, but it looks like i'll be waiting till MARCH before it comes to Canada (boo!). Also excited for the Eno and the DAYDREAM NATION!!!

― shudder (shudder), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

when do the ENO and THROBBING GRISTLE ones come out?

― T. Weiss (Timmy), Thursday, 25 January 2007 08:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

Court & Spark book is out now. Seattle shop Sonic Boom has copies, anyway.

― Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Thursday, 25 January 2007 08:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

I bought the ABBA, REM, Neutral Milk and DJ Shadow books the other day - and I am unemployed so it cost a lot of money for me. Really enjoying the NMH book at the moment and can't wait to get stuck into ABBA.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Thursday, 25 January 2007 13:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

Good shit, Matos. Kept me up a few nights.

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene in a DIE BLIPSTER SCUM! tee (R. J. Greene), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 00:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

I think I've mentioned elsewhere that my wife and I have decided the Ritz show (Pavement and Superchunk opening!) counts as our first date, since it was the first time we were in the same room at the same time... although we didn't actually meet for almost seven years after that.

I love the idea of referring to "You Made Me Realise" as YMMV.

― Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 00:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

Hahaha. Very apt.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 00:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

I have long been tempted to put together a census of all people who were at that show. It was, among other things, the concert at which I turned 21.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 02:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

I would love to see one of these on Pink Flag.

― ersatz (ersatz), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 15:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

Is it bad form to ask if anyone here is submitting a proposal for the new batch?

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 16:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

Not at all. I am.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 16:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'd really like a Only Built for Cuban Linx book. Somebody should do it

― rizzx (Rizz), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 16:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

Out of 60 some books, I count A Tribe Called Quest, the Beastie Boys and DJ Shadow as the only rap-related ones so far.

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 16:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

I have pitched a rap-related one for this round: The Geto Boys' self-titled album on Def American.

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 17:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm hopefully submitting a pitch, but it's for a fairly recent screamo/hardcore album. So I'm kinda relying on my argument being compelling.

― Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 17:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Which album?

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 17:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

Wait. The ATCQ one is People's Instinctive Travels? Somebody done fucked up.

I'm all for a Cuban Linx book.

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene in a DIE BLIPSTER SCUM! tee (R. J. Greene), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

I would kill to know more about Vision Creation Newsun! Has there even been a proper book done?

― UART variations (ex machina), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

Pink Flag and Entertainment!(!) Though I dare say Simon Reynolds ruined it for everyone.

― Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

"I'd really like a Only Built for Cuban Linx book. Somebody should do it"

Didn't they just do an insanely detailed feature in XXL last year?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yep.

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Thursday, 1 February 2007 00:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna pitch one too. Wish me luck everybody!

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Thursday, 1 February 2007 00:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

I hope for more non-anglocentric albums next go around.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 1 February 2007 00:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

I WAS AT THAT RITZ SHOW.

Me too. I remember the endless chord at the end of the MBV show. But what struck me most was the annoyingness of Gary Young.

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Thursday, 1 February 2007 00:43 (6 years ago) Permalink

I would kill to know more about Vision Creation Newsun! Has there even been a proper book done?

-- UART variations (jon@w

Ditto!

― etc (esskay), Thursday, 1 February 2007 00:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

also: Tim Finney plz to write Discovery/Since I Left You!

― etc (esskay), Thursday, 1 February 2007 00:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

I pitched Since I Left You last year and was rejected. :(

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 1 February 2007 02:43 (6 years ago) Permalink

Didn't they just do an insanely detailed feature in XXL last year?

oh shoot! i cant get that here in holland, if somebody has it and wants to scan it? please!?

― Joris (rizzx), Thursday, 1 February 2007 09:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

I pitched Since I Left You last year and was rejected. :(

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 1 February 2007 10:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

>I hope for more non-anglocentric albums next go around.
-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), February 1st, 2007.

(We'll see. We have to crunch the numbers and determine if any of that rap or foreign stuff can sell the kind of numbers that Neutral Milk Hotel has. How the heck will we market it--what book review journals can we get them in--what brick and mortar and online sites will take that stuff)

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

*blink* Okay, I honestly didn't know you were involved with this as well, curmudgeon! (Then again I've only ever talked with David B.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

he might be kidding.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm the psychic accountant who advises David (or just interprets his blog postings) :)

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

Mystic!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

"We have to crunch the numbers and determine if any of that rap or foreign stuff can sell the kind of numbers that Neutral Milk Hotel has."

Yeah I understand the rationale and I'm glad the series exists and sells as well as it does. It's just a personal preference.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

It is a sad truth that rap writing doesn't sell as well as rock writing.

The worst-selling Spin cover of all time? OutKast.

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

Jokes aside, I'm trying to grasp the reasons for the fact that the series is so not multicultural. But I guess that will just turn this thread into one of those mocked pazz & jop ones ('why do I have to vote for a more than one rap record to prove I'm not a racist') or Ethan will mock me for including a white rocker in my JnP singles ballot while advocating for more rap and international music. Others will just say put up or shut up and submit some ideas or find another publisher (alas, my work and family schedule does not allow me time for such lengthy efforts) and some will just say, hey, it's just a matter of economics and class social structure regarding which books will sell. Just deal with it.

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

xpost Less than this one?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

x-post

If you market it right, the buyers will come (to paraphrase Field of Dreams), I would like to believe. It might take a little more work though.

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

Did Jeff Chang and Nelson George have trouble with publishers telling them their books would not likely sell?

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

...and Egotrip and David Toop...

Well, the Stevie Wonder book is now out (and it is Black History month, maybe that will help in getting sales)

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Thursday, 1 February 2007 21:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

Christopher/Whiney, what do you think of the above questions/comments?

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Friday, 2 February 2007 05:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

:::crickets:::

― Welcome to the Pazz and Jop poll. (M Matos), Friday, 2 February 2007 09:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

As in "Buddy Holly and the..."

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Friday, 2 February 2007 15:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

I have no idea what these people's publishers had to say to them!

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 2 February 2007 15:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

But pointing out a Nelson George book as an example of how hip-hop writing sells is like pointing out a Nelly album as an example of how St. Louis hip-hop is huge right now.

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 2 February 2007 15:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

Stevie Wonder book sounds awesome.

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 2 February 2007 15:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

I would kill to know more about Vision Creation Newsun! Has there even been a proper book done?

-- UART variations (jo...), Wednesday 3:17 PM. (ex machina)

you could pay someone $25 to translate that one issue Studio Voice that has the comprehensive Boredoms history. :-D

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Friday, 2 February 2007 15:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

my roommate was lazy and would read it and tell me interesting things

― UART variations (ex machina), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

Oh man, the Court and Spark one is so dull. What did GB Shaw once say, "Once you put it down you can't pick it up"?

― douglas eklund (skolle), Sunday, 11 February 2007 02:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

That's a shame, I was really looking forward to C&S. I guess when they get to second albums from artists, we'll have a second-shot with Blue.

― Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Sunday, 11 February 2007 03:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

the Stevie is the worst in the series by a mile

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 11 February 2007 03:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

oh no really? but zeth is an awesome guy and i liked his ideas about it! aw man...

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 11 February 2007 03:39 (6 years ago) Permalink

it's like a parody of bad grad-school writing. and anyone who thinks "Sexual Healing" sucks needs to have his ears examined.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 11 February 2007 03:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

also, factual errors galore: "Tears of a Clown" was a hit in 1970, not 1967; "Master Blaster (Jammin')" appeared a year before Bob Marley died and is therefore not a posthumous tribute, etc.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 11 February 2007 03:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

Mordy: no second albums from artists. One each only.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 11 February 2007 03:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

xpost: wow.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 11 February 2007 04:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

No second albums... ever? DAMN.

― Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Sunday, 11 February 2007 04:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

Proposals on artists already covered in the series (or under contract to be covered) will not be accepted. (Barker from the 33 1/3 blog)

however he is cool with solo albums by diff't acts, e.g. John Lennon solo. I'd guess New Order would be fine despite Joy Division being covered.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 11 February 2007 04:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

So the SW is actually worse than Let It Be (the Beatles, not the Replacements)? Because I just read that one and it was unbelievably bad.

― AKA Mr. Jaq (moriarty), Sunday, 11 February 2007 04:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

That makes me sad knowing there will never be a book on my favoritest album of all time.

: (

― The Reverend (R. J. Greene), Sunday, 11 February 2007 06:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

Writing about Stevie is admittedly way harder than a lot of other great artists without resorting to simply unpacking his insane but natural-sounding chord changes as in this book, which is really good if you know your way around the mechanics of songwriting.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 11 February 2007 07:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

and anyone who thinks "Sexual Healing" sucks needs to have his ears examined.

Or simply has listened to I Want You.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 11 February 2007 07:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

a parody of bad grad-school writing

^^tautology

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 11 February 2007 12:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

That's for sure.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 February 2007 14:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

Rodney it's not like this is the only book publisher in the whole world. My friend A-M was asking me "why are you guys all so obsessed with this series?" and my answers sounded kind of lame.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 11 February 2007 14:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

i guess rap books don't sell, but somebodys gotta do ready to die

― artdamages (artdamages), Sunday, 11 February 2007 14:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

and Dare

― artdamages (artdamages), Sunday, 11 February 2007 14:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

James Brown and MC5 have sold a lot worse than some of their rap books!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 11 February 2007 15:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

im tempted to write a proposal for a janet jackson album today just cuz i am bored. maybe the first madonna instead.

― artdamages (artdamages), Sunday, 11 February 2007 15:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

Do it. You have til Wednesday.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 February 2007 15:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

>guess rap books don't sell, but somebodys gotta do ready to die
-- artdamages (tha()mrin@gmail.com), February 11th, 2007.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't believe the hype. Just because only 3 of the 60 book topics 33 and 1/3 editor Barker selected for this series have been rap does not mean rap books won't sell.

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Sunday, 11 February 2007 15:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

ok then someone write it. i just wanna read it. though i do have a good anecdote about getting high in highscool in some kids Audi listening to ready to die and then escaping from cops.

i am off to download Madonna because my tape copy melted over the summer. should be a lark.

― artdamages (artdamages), Sunday, 11 February 2007 16:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

The latest batch:

Funkadelic: Maggot Brain - by Matt Rogers
Slayer: Reign in Blood - DX Ferris
Tori Amos: Boys for Pele - Elizabeth Merrick
Fleetwood Mac: Tusk - Rob Trucks
Nas: Illmatic - Matthew Gasteier
The Pogues: Rum, Sodomy & the Lash - Jeffery Roesgen
Wire: Pink Flag - Wilson Neate
Big Star: Radio City - Bruce Eaton
Pavement: Wowee Zowee - Bryan Charles
Madness: One Step Beyond - Terry Edwards
Israel Kamakawiwo'ole: Facing Future - Dan Kois
Public Enemy: It Takes a Nation of Millions... - Christopher R. Weingarten
Van Dyke Parks: Song Cycle - Richard Henderson
Weezer: Pinkerton - Jessica Suarez
Black Sabbath: Master of Reality - John Darnielle
Wu-Tang Clan: Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) - S.H. Fernando, Jr.
Afghan Whigs: Gentlemen - Bob Gendron
Flying Burrito Brothers: Gilded Palace of Sin - Bob Proehl
Elliott Smith: XO - Matthew LeMay
Outkast: Aquemini - Nick Weidenfeld and Michael Schmelling
The Flaming Lips: Zaireeka - Mark Richardson

― jaymc, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

someone has finally tackled the monster that is zaireeka!

― unfished business, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Pavement: Wowee Zowee - Bryan Charles

ehhh. Brian Charles wrote a novel called Grab On To Me Tightly as if I knew the way, right?

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

someone has finally tackled the monster that is zaireeka!

please please please let that be a proposal for four books that have to be read simultaneously to make any sense.

― fact checking cuz, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

Four books must be place in a row and the text read in impossibly long single lines.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

nah, surely each book has every fourth word?

― unfished business, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Looking forward to Maggot Brain + misc. rap books.

― The Reverend, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

Is S.H. Fernando Jr. Skiz Fernando of Wordsound fame?

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yes. According to google and Wordsound's website.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

I KNOW MISTER MOUNTAINGOAT WILL DO ME PROUD WITH HIS SAB BOOK! (i was thisclose to submitting a sab proposal. it's nice to know that they are in good hands.)

― scott seward, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 21:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

Nice to see the Afghan Whigs cheerleaders on the 33 1/3 board got their wish.

― Joseph McCombs, Thursday, 22 March 2007 03:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

Nice to see more rap books than ever before, plus Funkadelic.

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tori Amos: Boys for Pele - Elizabeth Merrick

hey! wow.

― pisces, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

This list is split between albums that I am really excited to read about and albums that I would never under any circumstances read about and very little in between haha.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

I always knew you were a Tori Amos fan, Alex.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah she's tops.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Sweet! I love new 33 1/3 batches. Then I look forward to the brand-new ILX thread demanded a march to Amazon.com to belittle critical customer reviews. ("Folks, I'm a paid, professional critic, trained in the ancient ways. These public-school-educated peons don't know what they're talking about, WTF.")

― No Scintillating Prose in Outer Space, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

Still no Stooges or Cheap Trick. Gotta wonder if the editor hates those groups. Hard to believe there hasn't been one decent pitch yet.

― MC, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Haikunym's pitch for Cheap Trick was fantastic, I don't know why they didn't say yes.

― jaymc, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

uh there was at least ONE decent pitch I thought.

― Dimension 5ive, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

Slayer: Reign in Blood - DX Ferris
Nas: Illmatic - Matthew Gasteier
Public Enemy: It Takes a Nation of Millions... - Christopher R. Weingarten
Van Dyke Parks: Song Cycle - Richard Henderson
Black Sabbath: Master of Reality - John Darnielle
Wu-Tang Clan: Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) - S.H. Fernando, Jr.
Flying Burrito Brothers: Gilded Palace of Sin - Bob Proehl
Outkast: Aquemini - Nick Weidenfeld and Michael Schmelling
The Flaming Lips: Zaireeka - Mark Richardson

MAD AMPED

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

Just finished the MC5 book today. Very good / fast read. Made me sad that the documentary never came out a few years back.

― MC, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

The documentary did come out! I saw it!

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

Must have missed it at the local art house then. Is it on DVD?

― MC, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

That hasn't happened I think. They were in court wangling about it last I heard.

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

i wish ana gasteier were writing about nas.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Friday, 23 March 2007 21:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

I've only read the Low and Daydream Nation books.

The Low one, as everyone else I've seen comment on it has said, is great. It was exactly what I was looking for when I was going in: it goes into Bowie's life and mental state heading into and during the recording, talks a good amount his relationship with Eno and Iggy Pop, details the recording process and the players, talks about Berlin and Bowie's obsession with German Expressionism, and so on. I would recommend it for anyone.

The Daydream Nation book was really disappointing. I mean, I love Daydream Nation and all, and it's a NEAR-perfect album, but this book starts with the premise that it is THE perfect album and then rewrites history around it.

― Z S, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 03:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

The Daydream Nation book was really disappointing. I mean, I love Daydream Nation and all, and it's a NEAR-perfect album, but this book starts with the premise that it is THE perfect album and then rewrites history around it.

I love this series, so it pains me to admit that I was a little disappointed by this one also. The chapters about the actual process of recording the record and the things that inspired the songs are very good. The chapters analyzing individual songs (except for the Providence chapter) fall short when they falter on how the songs were constructed and resort to hyperbole. It is a good record, you don't need to convince me otherwise I wouldn't be the audience for it.

Not that I want the books to be formulaic, but I guess I would prefer more of an approach that discusses the nuts and bolts and actual details behind a recording as well as whatever sources or events inspired it. This is what I liked about the Loveless and Murmur books, for example.

I'm looking forward to the Song Cycle one.

― Bill in Chicago, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 05:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

I would prefer more of an approach that discusses the nuts and bolts and actual details behind a recording as well as whatever sources or events inspired it

What else would you want, in this series? Chapters written with the intent of convincing the reader that the album in question is INCREDIBLE seem like preaching to the choir. Is there anyone reading the Daydream Nation book that doesn't already love it?

― Z S, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 06:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

Reign in fucking Blood. Yes. Also stoked for Illmatic and 36 Chambers. My boss at the Rock Hall wrote the first book in the series, it was fun to talk to him about that.

― chris.steffen, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 06:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

Just finished the one on Joni Mitchell's Court & Spark. Very good, although I don't really get the author's dismissal of Hissing and Hejira.

― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 08:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

i've given up halfway through the daydream nation book. really obviously padded with waffle, hardly any insight whatsoever, entirely pedestrian interview segments and written in the most annoying authorial 'voice' this side of pitchfork.

― stevie, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 09:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

there s an AJA one coming out isn't there? can't wait.

how's the ABBA GOLD one?

― pisces, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 10:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tom should have written it.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 10:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

I thought the Abba Gold one was good.

― the next grozart, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 11:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

It was kind of weird in that it *didn't* assume the readers were already converted and spent a bit too much time semi-apologetically establishing ABBA as a great band. I guess there were quite a few people who bought ABBA Gold itself as a kind-of ironic joke but they're unlikely to buy a book about it! So it was slightly frustrating, though if you want a beginners guide to ABBA it's pretty good.

I also think it missed an opportunity to talk about compilations, especially as it now looks like it's the only 33 1/3 book that will be about one.

― Groke, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 11:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

right yeah that's what i feared. the LAST thing i want a beginner's guide to is abba.

― pisces, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 11:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

What else would you want, in this series?

Yeah, mostly true. Though the Murmur book is about half interpretation and analysis and the author pulls it off really well.

Oh, Aja book sounds great. Although I don't know what they could add to it that the Aja film didn't cover.

― Bill in Chicago, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 12:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

Can we start some kind of master list on the GREAT books of the series? They're too expensive for me to just do trial-and-error with, even though some of them are about some of my favorite albums.

― Reatards Unite, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 13:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

I thoroughly enjoyed the 'Bee Thousand' GBV entry - can't recall the author's name, but he made the book engaging and interesting at all times. I especially liked his touch of incorporating several 'listener accounts' of fave songs, gut reactions, reminiscing, etc.

Just picked up the 'Daydream Nation' SY entry - about a quarter of the way through and it's just not grabbing me so far. Maybe I want it to put me in a magic state of mind for the ATM/Pfork performance coming up in July. So stoked for that!

― BlackIronPrison, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 13:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

Or more specifically, can someone let me know how these are (some of them may not be out yet, I'm just looking at a list of all titles):

Prince - Sign O the Times
The Replacements - Let It Be
The Rolling Stones - Exile on Main Street (!!)
REM - Murmur
David Bowie - Low
The Byrds - Notorious Byrd Brothers
Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
Pixies - Doolittle
Stone Roses - Stone Roses
Nirvana - In Utero
Sly and the Family Stone - There's a Riot Going On
My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica (!!)
Guns N Roses - Use Your Illusion

― Reatards Unite, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 13:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

the sly stone one is amazing.

― stevie, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 13:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, which ones are about the record itself? I was very tempted to get the Replacements one until I read the reviews that it was a "coming-of'age" memoir about the author who listened to the record.

― Pleasant Plains, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

even worse: it's written by the Decemberists guy

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

the sly stone one has only the slightest bit of autobiog, and it actually helps illuminate the album. and it is very well written too - can't reccommend it enough.

― stevie, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

there's a whole thread about MATOS's book on 'sign o the times' somewhere i think. it got raves in the press and its brilliant. the IN UTERO is also ace.

― pisces, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 16:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

Trout Mask book is a little disappointing, but I still read it in a day.
The author has written a book on Zappa, so there's a lot of that. At least one factual error about Steve Reich's "Come Out" that is really glaring, but I think it's attributable to one of the ladies in the GTO's.
A good read, nonetheless.

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 17:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

I also think it missed an opportunity to talk about compilations

it actually talked a lot about compilations, specifically how Gold was put together etc. it's a terrific book.

― Matos W.K., Wednesday, 2 May 2007 17:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

Well, it should have talked about them even more then. I did read it on an overnight flight back from the EMP though, so I will re-read and own up if I was wrong.

― Groke, Wednesday, 2 May 2007 17:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Has anyone read the Guns 'n' Roses book? I wasn't sure if I'd like this one (I'm not a huge GNR fan at all) but the author had an interesting take on the GNR phenomenon of the early 90s.

― Nik, Sunday, 6 May 2007 21:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

especially as it now looks like it's the only 33 1/3 book that will be about one.

I enjoyed what I read of it in that sampler book (which, for whatever reason, I thought would be a collection of FULL books, buyer beware and/or actually know what you're purchasing first -- but this is a good idea since buying lots of individual books can be daunting, and doesn't let me read about albums I'm not already interested in). But it was frustrating that 33 1/3 chose a compilation when ABBA has several excellent albums to choose from (it's not like they aren't covering other artists whose catalogue makes picking one album almost impossible). That in itself seemed somewhat apologetic, though the history/song selection process (that I've read about so far anyway) was interesting. I'd like to see a history of ABBA that refuses to engage with them only as a "singles band" (especially in a format devoted to albums).

― dabug, Sunday, 6 May 2007 22:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

*releasing compilations with several full books, I mean. Although it would probably be fairly expensive.

― dabug, Sunday, 6 May 2007 22:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

GOLD IS AN ALBUM

― Dimension 5ive, Sunday, 6 May 2007 23:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

So what was the GNR book like, Nik? Was there much about the making of the actual albums? I AM a big GNR fan, but I could see how an author could easily mess up a book about the Illusion albums.

― Reatards Unite, Sunday, 6 May 2007 23:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

I read Eric's Use Your Illusion book not long ago: not bad at all; a nicely ambivalent book. The track-by-track analysis is quite useful.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 6 May 2007 23:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

I read the Music From Big Pink book last week. Definitely a page-turner. The author wrote his appreciation in the form of a novella from the perspective of a young man who dealt drugs to The Band. The parts about the music were worthwhile, but what really struck me was how vividly it depicted the tragic consequences of the disconnect between the Greatest Generation and their Baby Boomer offspring.

― Fitzcarraldo, Sunday, 6 May 2007 23:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

OTM, stevie, the Daydream Nation one was bad--i've read six or so of the titles and 1/2 are good, 1/2 bad

― iago g., Monday, 7 May 2007 00:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

Prince - Sign O the Times
If you are looking for a making-of book, then get Posessed. This is a pretty personal book, and while I like Matos' writing elsewhere, I think I wanted something different than what this book offered. I didn't really find Matos' critical analysis of the album itself to be illuminating but that wasn't (to me) what the book was about.

The Replacements - Let It Be
I was so disappointed in this one even though I really related to Meloy's experience a lot. The problem--which Jim Walsh will rectify shortly, I hope-- is that the book doesn't touch on the making of the album or even the band.

The Rolling Stones - Exile on Main Street (!!)
I LOVED this book but I'm kind of a homer because I like Bill Janovitz so much. I loved reading about this book from not only a huge fan, but from a musician's perspective. It's a solid combination of musical authority, historical context, and recording overview.

REM - Murmur
This is probably my favorite. Niimi does a killer job of combining critical analysis, the recording process, and mystification/demystification of the album

Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
Enjoyable, historical thingie.

Pixies - Doolittle
This one is also good, if nothing else because it's kind of a dream assignment: the writer gets in the car with Frank Black for a few days and they drive around talking about the album. It's well done.

Nirvana - In Utero
I really thought this one started out awkwardly but got better as it progressed. It's a pretty straight forward making-of.

Sly and the Family Stone - There's a Riot Going On
I'm reading this one right now and like it.

My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
I think this book could have been better, writing-wise. But it's an album so near and dear to my heart, and I'm thankful a big fan like Mike could write it. The bulk of it is very good.

Don't buy the Radiohead album.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Monday, 7 May 2007 00:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

The GNR book definitely includes a making of, but a lot of it is also kind of an ode to the lost potential of GNR - he definitely calls 'em on their numerous missteps. It kind of examines the notion of popular success in general and I think at one point he calls Use Your Illusion kind of the lack "mega" blockbuster album (forgive the paraphrase, he definitely had a better label for it but I'm full of decongestants and can't get to my book right now). Anyway, it's definitely a decent read if you ever liked GNR.

― Nik, Monday, 7 May 2007 03:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

Don, I agree the Mats book isn't a fine one if you're looking for info on the band, but I still really liked Colin Meloy's melancholy evocation of his boyhood. He certainly evokes what the mid-80s felt like if you were a young artsy-fartsy outkast kind of fella in a small town. It's one of my favorites of the series (although I'd still like a more straightforward Replacements book too)

― Nik, Monday, 7 May 2007 03:59 (6 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

I just finished the GNR book and I'm sorry, I gotta call bullshit. The chapters where Weisbard chronicles his own ascent to Critic Valhalla are boring, and the track-by-track is pretty much just him going "haha I never should have written this book because these records mostly suck." I hear he is a top guy -- and he comes around here sometimes too, so probably just shooting myself in the foot here if I ever thought about presenting at the conference or whatever -- but he had an opportunity to do something cool and I think he mailed it in.

Is this bitterness because the fat dead Hawaiian ukulele dude book was greenlighted but my Cheap Trick proposal never had a chance? OF COURSE. But all the stuff about "oh here's what Jon Pareles said" and "I worked for Bob Guccione Jr. and he was nice to me so Axl is a dickbag"...I ain't buyin' it.

― Dimension 5ive, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 15:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

That's a shame to hear, because I could totally see a great book being written about the Use Your Illusions (obviously, since I started this thread, and should probably re-do it as a poll).

I came the conclusion a while back that the best possible 33 1/3 book I could write would probably be about Pearl Jam's Vitalogy, although I don't think I could ever bring myself to pitch it and possibly go through with re-living my grunge adolescence like that and be the guy who wrote a book about Pearl Jam. But it would be awesome.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 15:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

SOMEONE among our generation needs to do this

― strongohulkington, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 15:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

the grunge book will be a big success when it finally drops

― strongohulkington, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 15:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

never forget

― Jordan, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

Seriously. I just hope that when someone does do a Pearl Jam book, it's about one of crazy pretentious albums like Vitalogy or No Code and not boring old Ten, my whole theory being that a band's weirdest or most indulgent album would make a way better book than their biggest or best. (xpost)

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 15:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

Did Geeta's Eno book come out?

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 15:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure Perpetua pitched Vitalogy this go-round.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

(And suffice it to say didn't get in.)

― jaymc, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

so, anybody read aja?

― Alan N, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think next time I'll pitch The Weirdness.

― da croupier, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

oh wait, they already did a stooges book. fuck!

― da croupier, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

I thought about pitching August and Everything After.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

jess you should pitch flipper.

― da croupier, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

DEAD MILKMEN BIG LIZARD IN MY BACKYARD WOULD SELL 15 COPIES GUARANTEED

― Dimension 5ive, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

I liked the Aja book. It delves very heavily into music theory which I thought was very interesting (how the fuck did they make those crazy chord progressions?) but not enough to turn people off.

My favorite so far is the Low book. Best written also. Stories of Bowie surviving solely on milk, coke and cigarettes == priceless.

― Bill in Chicago, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

haha Perpetua, dammit! actually I'm generally cool with him when he's writing about cheesy 90's alt-rock, so I'd probably read that. same reason I'd probably read a Counting Crows book. in theory, at least, the only 33 1/3 I've actually read so far was SOTT, but I might have to get that Aja one.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

im kind of addicted to these things but i'm reaching the diminishing returns point now that i've moved outside of the writers i know already enjoy

― strongohulkington, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 17:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

ooh when did the AJA book come out? is it available in UK?

― pisces, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 17:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

wow, I really don't think I can finish the Daydream Nation book.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 19:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

The guy who is writing the Master of Reality book posts here, and I am really looking forward to that. If he's reading this, could you provide the ETA?

Thanks.

― Bill Magill, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 20:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

wow, I really don't think I can finish the Daydream Nation book.

It gets a little better after the over-the-top gonzo tongue bath he gives the band/album in the first 30 pages or so, but even then, the most interesting parts come from the interviews he does with Steve and Lee, rather than from his tenuously drawn lyrical exegeses.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 20:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

I just read Eric's book finally, and I've gotta say he did it about the only way that could interest me at this point. There's been nine million words written about GNR, and few writers are gonna have anything to offer now except rehash. (And honestly, I feel the same way about the Replacements, a band I was a lot deeper into in their moment.) Eric did a great job of bringing new thinking along with the necessary history; also, any ambivalence he has about the music is fully justified. The Illusions were messy, overgrown and sometimes unlistenable from Day One, and those qualities seem amplified a million times given subsequent events.

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 20:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

NB: I haven't read Meloy's book yet, so that above comment is no bust on him.

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 20:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

Also hahaha "events."

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 20:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

Help me then with the "new thinking" part then, please, because I didn't get any of that. Just that the records aren't Appetite for Destruction? I think we all knew that. Is it that he is a well-known music writer? I personally knew that too.

― Dimension 5ive, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

The guy who is writing the Master of Reality book posts here, and I am really looking forward to that. If he's reading this, could you provide the ETA?

I don't know, really! I don't like to talk about work-in-progress, kinda weirdly superstitious about that

― J0hn D., Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

I just picked up the Notorious Byrd Bros one and am about a third of the way through. To be honest the writing seems average at best -- and his personal bio bits weren't as engaging as Matos's -- but I am unfamiliar enough with certain parts of the Byrds backstory that it is holding interest. I'm still very much looking forward to the discussion of the record in the next section; i'll withhold judgement til I finish.

shame about the Use Yr Illusions -- I was interested in checking that one as well, although I'm no fan of his writing. I liked that he chose to explore those two albs over Appetite. but if he is less than enthusiastic about them then fuck it.

― Stormy Davis, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

"I don't like to talk about work-in-progress, kinda weirdly superstitious about that"

Cool, totally understood.

― Bill Magill, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

As I posted a few months ago, Eric's book was the most sheerly entertaining of the lot. I'm not a fan of the track-by-track analysis, but how else could you have analyzed those "messy, overgrown and sometimes unlistenable" albums?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Maybe by doing more than just saying "Oh this one sucks, I NEVER would have included it on my personal mixtape of the best songs from these albums"? Maybe? Or by making the album the focus of the book? A little bit?

Wow, maybe my reading comp skills are just bad, or maybe I'm a big jerk, but I failed to be entertained or enlightened by anything in that book. I guess we are now seeing why my music writing "career" has been euthanized.

― Dimension 5ive, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

Haha "maybe"

― Dimension 5ive, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

How was the album NOT the focus? I don't get it. As for the mixtape, he tells you why the songs suck! "Don't Cry" -- More paddlin' Stradlin. That pounding on a cowbell to start a song cliche of theirs makes it sfirst apperance. Piano couplets in just the right Stonesy spot. Exile in GN'Rville? That blurb, incidentally, attacks lots of the orthodoxy I remember from the time: Stradlin being the "good" Rose because he was the Stonesiest.

(It's all good if you didn't like it, btw)

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 21:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

DEAD MILKMEN BIG LIZARD IN MY BACKYARD WOULD SELL 15 COPIES GUARANTEED

One right here please...

― MC, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

The lyrical stuff in the Daydream Nation one is, yeah, pretty problematic -- the worst boner is when he picks up that one verse of a Kim song is "inspired" by Harry Crews, while missing that the other verse is lifted directly from Denis Johnson.

The sadder part is how Lee and especially Steve are being really helpful with their interviews, where Thurston and Kim seem to basically be fucking with the guy over email.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Alf: I returned it to the library, so I can't quote all the early sections that are more about music writing/criticism and its Crucial Importance than about these records. More time is given to "The Spaghetti Incident?" and "Appetite for Destruction" than to either one of these records, which indicates to me that he thought about the pitch more than about the book.

The fact that these blurbs -- and let's face it that's all they are -- are confined to the ass-end of the book told me all I needed to know about how important the actual music is to him, as opposed to positioning records (and himself) in the perceived Canon. I think the book reads like he choked and then decided he didn't want to give back the advance. Witness his statements in that section like "I really shouldn't be writing about these albums."

For what it's worth, I actually agreed with his main premise. I just don't think he backs it up with any evidence, and that he ignores counter-arguments, and that ultimately it isn't a very relevant argument after all.

God what a whiny bitch I have become.

― Dimension 5ive, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

Going back to some of the older books that I've read:

Radiohead: No one ever says anything nice about this one, but I found it a good read, but then I'm a musicology fanboy who knows nothing about musicology. Unfortunately, his entire premise--that OK Computer is the first true CD album--doesn't hold up at all once you start to think about other records that came out before (Afghan Whigs' Gentlemen for one).

MC5: Very good. Not a making of, but a historical analysis of the record's place in time.

Pixies: Good retrospective with participation of the artists (save Kim). Good and readable track by track analysis.

Smiths: The only fiction I've read in years.

James Brown: Awesome.

Others on my shelf I haven't read yet (any suggestions on which to start with???):
Joy Division
Velvet Underground
Ramones

― MC, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

the only ones i really want to read are erik davis's zep book and matos's prince book (i would have read this already but i don't buy books on-line and they don't sell them where i live) and john's sab book when it comes out. i think.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

"i think", meaning there may be some i forgot.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

is geeta's book still on? there's no mention on the continuum page.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

where Thurston and Kim seem to basically be fucking with the guy over email.

Hmmm, I'll have to go back and check, but I don't actually remember any input from them at all.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 22:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

my fave so far was the abba one.

predicatbly, i'd love to see one of "giant steps" by the boo radleys, but that would never see the light of day.

― the next grozart, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 23:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

Please let whoever pitches Madonna be an Erotica fan.

― Eric H., Thursday, 28 June 2007 00:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

the Erik Davis Zep book is fucking amazing.

― Matos W.K., Thursday, 28 June 2007 00:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

Please let whoever pitches Madonna be an Erotica fan.

Tim Finney on that would be pretty stellar...

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 June 2007 00:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

So is there an S/D thread for these someplace?

― fukasaku tollbooth, Thursday, 28 June 2007 00:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

Surely this is it!

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 June 2007 00:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

I thought about pitching August and Everything After.

-- fukasaku tollbooth, Wednesday, 27 June 2007 16:36 (Yesterday) Link

On that other 33 1/3 thread, I mentioned this...I have a really strange relationship with CC (several years ago I thought they were the best band ever)...Though I would rather write about This Desert Life.

― Tape Store, Thursday, 28 June 2007 02:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

Speaking of...What album would you propose to write about for the 33 1/3 book series?

― Tape Store, Thursday, 28 June 2007 02:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

Whiney G's gonna write about It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back (sorry if that was already posted)

― dow, Thursday, 28 June 2007 05:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

latest sales rankings for the series

1. Neutral Milk Hotel
2. The Kinks
3. The Smiths
4. The Rolling Stones
5. The Velvet Underground
6. Pink Floyd
7. Joy Division
8. Radiohead
9. The Beatles
10. Love
11. The Beach Boys
12. DJ Shadow
13. Led Zeppelin
14. Neil Young
15. Beastie Boys
16. David Bowie
17. Dusty Springfield
18. Jimi Hendrix
19. The Replacements
20. Bob Dylan
21. Jeff Buckley
22. The Pixies
23. My Bloody Valentine
24. The Band
25. Prince
26. The Ramones
27. R.E.M.
28. Bruce Springsteen
29. The Byrds
30. James Brown
31. Elvis Costello
32. The Who
33. Jethro Tull
34. Abba
35. Sly and the Family Stone
36. Nirvana
37. Sonic Youth
38. Guided by Voices
39. Stone Roses
40. The MC5
41. Captain Beefheart
42. Stevie Wonder
43. The Minutemen
44. Magnetic Fields
45. Steely Dan
46. Guns N Roses
47. PJ Harvey
48. Joni Mitchell
49. A Tribe Called Quest

― gershy, Thursday, 19 July 2007 07:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Here's an excerpt from Carl Wilson's book on Celine Dion's Let's Talk About Love. The subtitle is "A Journey to the End of Taste."

I am so fucking jazzed about this one.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 17:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

no kraftwerk one, not even planned. they should sort that out and do computer world and man machine.

― max r, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

11100100 11100101 11100100 10011001 01100001 00010000 01110111 11101111
00110111 10011011 00010111 11110100 10101111 01000110 11010101 00000111
10101000 01111011 10111101 00101111 10100011 11011001 00110001 11011000
00000110 10111010 01000111 01000111 00110100 10001010 10101111 11101101
10010011 11001011 01111111 11010100 01101000 11011100 10010111 11001010
00011110 11100101 01010110 10011111 00000111 01101001 01000110 00010110
11000000 11010010 01100110 01010111 11101101 01111100 10101000 00111111
11111000 11101110 11110110 11100001 01101001 11101011 01111111 01101111
01111000 00001001 00000000 11111000 11111110 10001001 01101101 00010001
11101010 01111001 11111010 11100101 00100011 00110011 11000000 11111001
11010100 00000011 11000000 10111110 10101001 10100101 10000100 11000000
01010000 10000000 10011010 10010010 11010110 11111110 00100100 11011101
11110000 00101011 00010100 11110000 10111010 11001100 11100010 00000100
11111100 00100101 01101000 11010000 11000111 01111111 11101011 01101011
10001111 01001011 10010101 10001110 01111110 01111110 10000100 00011101
00110011 01000110 10001100 01110111 00010111 10000100 10001101 10110100
01000100 10111001 11011100 10001110 10101010 01111010 01011010 11111011
10111011 10110101 10000100 01101001 10101001 00110111 01101111 10010111
00001010 11110111 01101110 10000000 11110100 11100111 10001100 10001100
00100001 11110101 11111011 00010100 01110100 00010000 00101010 01110011
10001110 10100100 11110011 00010011 10110011 00001001 01111100 00010000
00101000 10100001 10100110 10010101 01000101 10100001 01010011 01010101
10101000 10010001 11001010 01000100 10111111 00000110 00101110 10001000
11100011 00000011 10101100 10010100 01101001 10110010 01111111 10100011
10010001 01000000 01000111 00101110 00110101 01011100 10100101 01110010
10101001 01011110 10110101 11011111 11001110 10000110 10011110 01101110
00001101 00001010 10100101 10010111 10011001 10010001 11101110 00001011
00011011 11110011 11110101 11000001 01111010 11111111 01011010 11000100
10011010 01110110 11101001 10000011 00010100 01110000 01011110 11100110
10110001 00101100 00111100 11001000 10111111 11100100 00000001 00000100
01111011 01011110 11010001 10001111 10000100 01011101 01000001 10110010
00111010 01010011 10000001 00101010 00000110 01101001 01011000 01100111
01010001 11000100 00000011 01101011 01001101 00111001 00111101 11100101
10010010 11001010 11110111 11010110 10110010 00100100 00101011 01111100
01111011 10011100 01011000 11110000 00111101 10111000 11011010 01100000
11010111 01011011 11001110 10001110 01100001 10110100 11011001 01101001
00100110 00101100 10111110 10000101 00000101 11010000 11000010 10000010
10000011 10111001 01100111 10000000 11001101 00001101 10101100 01001000
01111111 01000100 00110001 11110011 00110001 11001101 10001011 00010011
01100111 10100000 10110010 10010111 10111101 01111001 00100111 11010010
11110111 01010010 11000111 10101111 00100000 11000110 11000101 11000000
10111100 01111001 11000001 11101011 00110100 10001100 10110000 10010011
00110000 10001111 11111101 11000111 01010000 10100100 01010110 00100011
10011010 11110111 00000100 01100110 01000010 01101001 01110101 01000111
00001111 01000011 01010101 00001100 01011100 00100010 01000110 11001010
11000100 11100101 11010100 11111000 10101110 00010000 11010111 10001010
11101111 00110011 10010110 11000110 01110101 00011110 01001000 11011001
10000010 10010111 11010101 11010100 11111010 10001000 11000000 00011101
10100000 11100101 00010111 01001101 01111011 00001110 11001011 10100111
11010000 01111100 00100111 11010010 01100010 11110111 01101110 11111001

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

There. Just wrote it for ya.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Wow, I didn't even know about that Celine Dion/Larry King interview.

― Jordan, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

I can't believe how much I want to read a book about Celine Dion now.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

i'm more interested in pleasant plains' kraftwerk entry

― omar little, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

i'm not too keen when people are all "lol, robots" in regard to kraftwerk.

― max r, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

Why not?

― jaymc, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 18:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 19:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

No one was more "lol, robots" than Kraftwerk themselves. That was kind of the point of their records.

― Sara Sara Sara, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 19:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

^^ first line of the kraftwerk book?

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 20:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

no, it was in the olden days, before everything was a joke.

― max r, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 20:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

I heard Carl Wilson give a talk at the EMP that overlapped with some of his Celine Dion book; it was very funny but also very, very sharp and seemed to model a best case scenario for a music criticism that doesn't just narrowly advocate for aprivate pleasure but makes you think about broader aesthetic questions in a juicy, immediate way. I'm so stoked to read his book.

― Drew Daniel, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 21:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

^^^OTM.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 21:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

im stoked for it too as it's about, you know, quebec and stuff and cultural things i think about a lot.

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 21:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

I wasn't excited at all for Wilson's book and I'm still skeptical of it. But reading that clip reminds me that his writing might actually be able to transcend the patronizing approach to the album.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 21:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

A little bird from Continuum has told me that if you mail this address:

letstalkaboutcel✧✧✧@ya✧✧✧.c✧✧

...you'll be able to receive a PDF of the first two chapters of said Celine book, gratis.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 October 2007 15:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

(You can guess what the last three letters are in the main part of the address. And yes, it's yahoo.com)

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 October 2007 15:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

transcend the patronizing approach to the album.

What makes you think the approach to the album is patronizing?

― jaymc, Thursday, 4 October 2007 15:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

Isn't the whole premise of the book, writing about an artist/album he hates instead of one he likes and has listened to many times, and "teach himself to love her music," kind of inherently patronizing? It might yield some interesting results as a writing exercise, but c'mon, it's not exactly a stretch to call it patronizing.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 4 October 2007 16:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

I still don't see that. Maybe I don't understand the premise, but from reading Carl's blog, I was under the impression that the book was about trying to understand what people see in Celine Dion and to use her as a site of contestation about the nature of taste and aesthetic judgments. I find it to be a remarkably open-minded approach, to go in with the attitude of "maybe I'm wrong about this woman who's loved by millions of people."

― jaymc, Thursday, 4 October 2007 16:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I don't really know the writer's work much and obviously haven't seen more than the excerpt linked above. I'm just saying, the advance descriptions of the book made his mission sound a little patronizing. I definitely think there's something noble in writing thoughtfully about popular music that critics don't often give a fair shake, but also I feel like there should be at least a shred of unironic affection for it there to begin with. And I somehow doubt that Wilson continued to listen to Celine's music much after he finished the transcript, or that any of the non-Celine fans who read the book will suddenly start buying and enjoying her albums because of it.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 4 October 2007 16:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Carl Wilson is a big thinker, so I'd be inclined to read whatever he had to say about Celine Dion without pre-judging it on the basis of descriptions or hatred of the artist or whatever. I don't always agree with Carl's opinions but he's always worth reading.

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 4 October 2007 16:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yes. I just read those first two chapters, courtesy of Ned's secret e-mail address, and he's just so sharp and his writing so lively, I'm really looking forward to reading more.

― jaymc, Thursday, 4 October 2007 16:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

Alex in Baltimore OTM.

I don't really see Carl Wilson going for big thinking here, or even being particularly open minded. At best I give him credit for honest, intellectual curiosity but at worst it seems a bit cynical. I mean, is it really that hard to understand the appeal of Celine Dion or is the real point of the book going to be savaging the taste of the masses? I'm just a little suspicious, just as I would be a top-tier food critic reviewing McDonald's. The approach may not be patronizing, but it's definitely a little condescending.

But again, what I've read of the book has impressed me thus far and Wilson's a great writer.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Thursday, 4 October 2007 18:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I'd be a lot more inclined to be suspicious if that little excerpt didn't read so well.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, 4 October 2007 18:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

As a Canadian writer, Wilson is in a good position to compare and contrast Quebecoise Celine Dion and R&B singers, both the choices in music and production that they make and how critics see them (and, similarly, what can be seen as the "tackiness" of the surface of African-American and Quebecois pop music).

― Eazy, Thursday, 4 October 2007 18:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

I mean, is it really that hard to understand the appeal of Celine Dion or is the real point of the book going to be savaging the taste of the masses?

I don't get this from the excerpt at all! Is attempting to understand something foreign inherently condescending?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 4 October 2007 18:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sounds like an interesting and novel approach to me.

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Thursday, 4 October 2007 18:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

Is attempting to understand something foreign inherently condescending?

DON'T YOU KNOW THAT EVERY ATTEMPT TO DO THIS IS AUTOMATICALLY AN EXERCISE IN OBJECTIFYING AND EXOTICIZING STUFF??????

(cough)

― Matos W.K., Thursday, 4 October 2007 19:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

Maybe.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 4 October 2007 19:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

I mean, I'd rather read Carl Wilson grappling with aesthetics than read some of the slobberfests that pass as entries in this series, even when they're about albums I love.

― jaymc, Thursday, 4 October 2007 19:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

I don't get that from the excerpt either Alfred. I'm referring to the concept in general. And in that regard, this series of books pretty much deals exclusively with albums that are or were critically adored. They're cool, they have a degree of hipness or seem to be part of some sort of accepted canon. This album was picked because it is in many ways, the antithesis of all that. And that context is critical for reminding us of the disconnect between critics and the masses; does Wilson wonder what he's missing as a critic or is his critical assessment ultimately right and therefore, the people who blow money on Celine are stupid? I don't trust (or am not interested in) too many people to write about that subject without sounding like a prick.

As for the question of that disconnect, it's something that's been asked since, like, forever. But clearly Wilson's one of the writers who can probably glean some good insight and hopefully this book is going to be a great one. jaymc OTM.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Thursday, 4 October 2007 19:58 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah y'all are following some wonky-ass map where "not initially understanding something's appeal" automatically leads "to appreciating it in some ironic/patronizing way."

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 4 October 2007 19:58 (5 years ago) Permalink

Mr. Weiner already said it, but again, the "patronizing" thing was based more on the overall concept than the writer/excerpt. Obviously, Wilson has found a way to approach Celine in a thoughtful and personally resonant way. But if I was at 33 1/3 and got a pitch for someone sayins "I want to write a book about Creed [or some other obvious popular but widely reviled artist] because I hate them," it'd probably have to be a pretty great pitch for me to say yes. But then, like jaymc says, it's still automatically more interesting than another sloppy blow job for an album that everyone who might possibly like it already owns and thinks is great.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 4 October 2007 20:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

And I somehow doubt that Wilson continued to listen to Celine's music much after he finished the transcript, or that any of the non-Celine fans who read the book will suddenly start buying and enjoying her albums because of it.

-- Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, October 4, 2007 4:13 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

so unless he's helping move albums it's a condescending project? wtf??

― s1ocki, Thursday, 4 October 2007 20:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

sorry massive xpost.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 4 October 2007 20:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

and i know i was deliberating misconstruing you a bit here.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 4 October 2007 20:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

i mean, deliberately.

― s1ocki, Thursday, 4 October 2007 20:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

you don't say.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 4 October 2007 20:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Just as FYI to everyone Powells in PDX is running a buy-two-get-one-free sale on the series. (I picked up a lot of them)

― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 29 October 2007 01:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

I've stopped buying these altogether, the bad ones are too depressing to wade through to get to the one or two good ones...

― iago g., Monday, 29 October 2007 03:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm about to read the MBV one. Pixies, GBV, Smiths, Magnetic Fields and Neutral Milk Hotel ones were all good.

― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Monday, 29 October 2007 03:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was very disappointed by the Radiohead and Tribe books, and I was 50/50 on the Magnetic Fields one. But I'm psyched for the three that are allegedly coming out in December - Celine, Tom Waits, and Throbbing Gristle.

― Emily S., Monday, 29 October 2007 11:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

I haven't seen anything about the Another Green World book. Is that still in the works?

― fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 29 October 2007 14:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

This series will only get really good (as it is starting to) once all the obvious ones have been covered.

― filthy dylan, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 16:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

Jeez, Geeta's Eno book is still almost a year away according to this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brian-Enos-Another-Green-World/dp/0826427863/ref=sr_1_1/202-6023791-6219064?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193762572&sr=1-1

Can't wait to read it--her chapter in Marooned is one of my very favorites.

― JN$OT, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 16:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

She hasn't been blogging much lately. I think she's busy teaching (and maybe working on the book).

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 17:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

From my book-waiting experiences, Amazon.co.uk's pub dates are even more unreliable than the US site's, so who knows?

― Emily S., Tuesday, 30 October 2007 19:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hmm, December 15, 2007 according to the US site. That seems fa more reasonable.

― JN$OT, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 19:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

like the prince SOTT one. just read the sly - riot one, which wasnt as good. too theoretically/analytically spotty, and prone to a bit too much 'this is my life experience so its the TRUTH' zeal. he seems to be more of a hip hop expert than a soul/funk one, going on what ive read of his before.

― titchyschneiderMk2, Thursday, 8 November 2007 23:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

anybody read the big pink novella? in principle i'm not against such a thing, but i found it frustrating

― Billy Pilgrim, Thursday, 8 November 2007 23:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

I quite enjoyed the Big Pink novella, Billy. Found some of the dialog a bit too obviously "sixties" - the book must have over 200 uses of the word "man" at the end of a phrase or sentence - but I must admit being strangely moved by the end of it, and thought the Richard Manuel character was beautifully drawn.

― Emily S., Friday, 9 November 2007 01:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 10 November 2007 21:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Ha ha!! I never knew he was Nancy's brother.

― Emily S., Saturday, 10 November 2007 21:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

Does the AJA author write on here? What's it like anyway?

― pisces, Monday, 12 November 2007 14:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

According to the 33 1/3 blog, the Neutral Milk Hotel one is the all-time bestseller. Weird!

The one on Doolittle is terrific -- I learned a lot about a record I thought I already knew a lot about. (e.g. that Ed Stasium was the second choice to produce...) The one on Mu4mu4 is terrible.

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 12 November 2007 16:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

On its own terms I just about agree with you. It was clear throughout that the author is a musician and a good stylist and equally clear in spots that he didn't live in the sixties and isn't even from the area, but that was fine. Richard Manuel was a great character.

Actually the reason I found it frustrating was pretty specific to my situation. I brought a copy with me up to Woodstock a couple of years ago, and I was hoping to use it as a guide to the whens and wheres of the recording of the album, and the book was very little help with those kinds of specifics.

― Billy Pilgrim, Monday, 12 November 2007 16:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

*a couple of weeks ago*

― Billy Pilgrim, Monday, 12 November 2007 16:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

So is that "Daniel Drew" thing getting fixed?

― jaymc, Monday, 12 November 2007 16:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

So I read the Celine Dion book and uh I didn't really like it that much which is too bad because the stuff on the Larry King interview and Celine's mostly on again but sometimes off again appeal for the people of Quebec I found pretty interesting. Sadly, the rest of the book is mostly regurgitated and at this point pretty obvious stuff on the formulation of "taste" with very little insight of note from Wilson himself, a lot of pretty facile biographical stuff on Dion and her global ubiquity and some bits on Dion fans which don't really provide much insight (except proving that unsurprisingly there are some people who like her who are not complete dullards.) There's very little on Let's Talk About Love itself (not that I'm really complaining about this--it's not like I really bought the book to read about the album) which seems to have picked mostly because it a) has the damn Titanic theme on it and b) it allows Wilson to start everything chapter with "Let's Talk About. . ."

― Alex in SF, Saturday, 29 December 2007 23:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

the book is fucking awesome. beautiful and insightful and funny and personal. best nonfic i've read in a long, long time. what was "facile" about the biographical stuff? i didn't find it super-interesting but i'm the guy who for similar reasons has no interest in 80% of the 33 1/3 series anyway.

― sean gramophone, Sunday, 30 December 2007 00:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

99% of the bio info could have been gleaned from perusing her wikipedia bio.

― Alex in SF, Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

99% of the bio info could have been gleaned from perusing her wikipedia bio.

well, ok, but there's also the matter of style, which is the main reason I read - if you're reading just to absorb the bio info, then I guess yeah, the wiki's yr spot. The book is beautifully written in my opinion and the bio stuff also ends up working toward the book's thesis - the nature of Dion's music and persona, its identity.

I personally dug this book although as with the GnR one I usually want to hear about the music from somebody who's geeked about it - I like Celine, don't find her unlistenable or sterile or any of that, so I wished he could have gotten inside the songs more, heard where her voice isn't just a technical wonder but an expressive one. But his attempts to get there were worth readin I thought.

― J0hn D., Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

after checking amazon, it looks like the drew daniel typo was fixed. xpost.

also: one 33 1/3 author said elsewhere that there seems to be more people who want to write these books than read them. i think that's probably the biggest issue facing this series, unless a title like the weezer book can reverse that trend, real or perceived.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I've been lazy about getting it, but I can't wait.

John, you didn't think Eric "geeked" about GNR? Writing blurbs on every track looks like geeking to me.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

Has anyone read Geeta's book? It's the one I'm most excited about in the new batch. [This thread is such a precarious collegial minefield.]

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

John, you didn't think Eric "geeked" about GNR? Writing blurbs on every track looks like geeking to me.

no I said "who is geeked" i.e. loves the artist in question. I like the way Eric writes, rather a lot, but I got the impression he never really cared for Guns 'n' Roses - I enjoyed reading his book, but at the end of the day would rather hear about why the band is awesome. NB I am actually ambivalent about GnR a lot of the time & agree with many of Eric's points, but when I'm reading in depth about an album, my attention is pretty much only held by great enthusiasm.

― J0hn D., Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

we can argue about how formalism can convey enthusiasm...but fair enough.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

Geeta's book isn't out, I don't think.

I guess I'm going to be in the minority on this one, because I didn't find the book beautifully written (or moving or particularly personal--or at least personal in a way that I found terribly involving), quite the opposite actually I found the whole thing rather jumbled and poorly put together. Maybe independently each of the half-dozen things the book tries to be might have interesting enough to sustain well probably not a 150 page book, but something shorter at least, but that jumbled altogether the whole thing just felt messy (there is definitely a 150+ page book completely independent of Celine Dion that could be written just about "taste" and how it gets constructed, but that wouldn't really be a 33 1/3 book.)

I'm really excited for Another Green World, 20 Jazz Funk Greats and Enter The 36 Chambers.

― Alex in SF, Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

The last for different reasons than the first two cuz I know a fair amount it and how it was made, but I'm hoping that Fernando's take on the recond will be a interesting one.

― Alex in SF, Sunday, 30 December 2007 01:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

I got four of the books for christmas. i could give specific impressions on specific books, but my first reaction after just reading all four was kinda being turned off listening to the albums themselves. Not what i would have expected!

― Billy Pilgrim, Sunday, 30 December 2007 02:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think one thing to keep in mind is how dangerous biographical scenarios are to the listening experience; when I used to listen to "Exile on Main St" I never really thought about how Mick and Keith might or might not be getting along, but after reading the 33 1/3 book about that album now I kind of "listen for the conflict", or something. It's dangerous ground, but it makes you think about the extent to which art expresses its context and the extent to which to revsises/ignores/compensates/represses that context. I guess the same thing happens to "Loveless" given the disclosures in Mike's book, but it's still up to you as reader/listener to process how the book+album=? equation gets solved.

― Drew Daniel, Sunday, 30 December 2007 02:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hope my book makes people want to listen to TG tho.

― Drew Daniel, Sunday, 30 December 2007 02:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

I hope so too!

― Alex in SF, Sunday, 30 December 2007 02:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

there seems to be more people who want to write these books than read them

state of old-school rockcrit circa 2008

― m coleman, Sunday, 30 December 2007 13:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

how it came to this pretty pass could be an EMP presentation ;-)

― m coleman, Sunday, 30 December 2007 13:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yes, an EMP presentation. But as with the 33-1/3 series, there would be more people who would want to present on it than listen...maybe the entire audience could walk on stage and perform as some sort of improvisatory jam.

It's like what Charles M. Young said in Musician years ago about the music biz where everyone was releasing an album of their own: We already have a genre for this. It's called Poetry. Everyone writes it. Nobody reads it.

― smurfherder, Sunday, 30 December 2007 19:16 (5 years ago) Permalink