― Felcher (Felcher), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:59 (9 years ago) Permalink
Anyways, my big favorite at themoment is "Unrest"I've heard great, great things about the concert album too.
So uhh, superduper-classic!
― Øystein Holm-Olsen (Øystein H-O), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:05 (9 years ago) Permalink
― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:24 (9 years ago) Permalink
"Leg End" is more reminiscent of a Canterbury sound (eg: Soft Machine, National Health), and no Lindsay Cooper yet, alas.
"Unrest" is simply phenomenal, scary and beautiful.
Your liking of "In Praise of Learning" will depend a bit on how you feel about Dagmar Krause's singing. Not everyone likes her -- she's in the German artsong tradition and a bit dramatic. I think she's great, though.
"Western Culture" is more reminiscent of some 20th-century composition or Anthony Braxton-type jazz; quite good and the Pitchfork review is accurate.
As dleone mentions above, Art Bears are also fantastic (I wouldn't go so far as to say so far superior that it avoids humor (paraphrased). They have less of an improv influence and don't incorporate some of the interesting keyboard and woodwind elements that H.Cow do (except on "Hopes and Fears", which began life as a Cow record).
In sum: classic and extraordinary, go get 'em.
― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:35 (9 years ago) Permalink
― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:45 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:47 (9 years ago) Permalink
Science Group w/Cutler and Frith of HC, 1999, playing updated version of Art Bears-esque stuff. Excellent, also features Bob Drake, Amy Denio and Steven Tickmayer (who wrote all the music).
Cutler/Glandien/Krause, Domestic Stories: same story but from early 90s. Not as good as Science Group, but interesting.
Fred Frith Gravity and Speechless: Frith wrote all the music for Art Bears, and these LPs definitely expand on HC and AB sound. Very good.
― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:56 (9 years ago) Permalink
― j fail (cenotaph), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:04 (9 years ago) Permalink
Has anyone here heard the band After Dinner? Also on ReR, and probably would appeal to Slapp Happy/Art Bears fans.
― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:08 (9 years ago) Permalink
― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:09 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:12 (9 years ago) Permalink
― nestmanso (nestmanso), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:47 (9 years ago) Permalink
xpost with Nom de Plume led to me deleting my sketch, he's got it right. Though I usually tell friends to start with 'Unrest', side 1 has three of their most classic pieces and side 2 has the improvised-in-studio tape works.
The recent ReR CD edition (with the covers appearing within frames) absolutely beats the early 90's ESD edition, which had inferior sound and radically different, glossier remixes for 'Legend' and 'Learning'. (The remixes are interesting, but start with the originals.) The ReR edition ditches the bonus tracks (improv excerpts) from the ESD edition, but I don't miss them that much. Buy 'Concerts' last, then move on to bootlegs, and send Cutler e-mail asking him when the live box set is coming out etc.
y'know apart from a few tracks towards the end I never warmed much to Science Group. the notes are okay, but that sequencer kind of kills it for me. and the uncredited samples bug me. but as always, buying the next one on sight.
My favorite Cutler-involved song project from the 90's was the first (ec) Nudes album, 'vanishing point', with Amy Denio & Wadi Gisi. Tightly composed songs, weird production, and they fucking rocked. (Cutler retired from the later records, which drift and do not rock).
Of Cutler's two records with Dimuzio, I like 'Dust' a great deal. Epic layered drones with thousands of odd acoustic details. 'Quake' not so much. Cutler's solo album is also a very odd soundscape of rattles and drones, very distinguished in that it does come across as a live album, not a studio construction. Perhaps it helps to have seen him live performing the sounds, it's astonishing to watch. But the solo album is great for listening too.
dleone's right in that the Art Bears are a thing unto themselves. Nothing can really compare to them, so best not to...
― jl (Jon L), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 19:15 (9 years ago) Permalink
― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 19:25 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 19:37 (9 years ago) Permalink
SP: What do you think Slapp Happy brought to Henry Cow?PB: Dagmar...
love Slapp Happy. the Art Bears would encore with beautiful versions of Slapp Happy songs.
― jl (Jon L), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 21:00 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 23:51 (9 years ago) Permalink
― JOOLS, Thursday, 7 August 2003 04:28 (9 years ago) Permalink
― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 7 August 2003 05:25 (9 years ago) Permalink
'rock-hating' is good.
[/chuck eddy] ;)
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 August 2003 07:12 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Brandon Welch (Brandon Welch), Thursday, 7 August 2003 15:25 (9 years ago) Permalink
― nestmanso (nestmanso), Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:05 (9 years ago) Permalink
― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:13 (9 years ago) Permalink
That 1982 Recommended compilation opened a lot of doors for me... it's just got so much on it.
― jl (Jon L), Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:42 (9 years ago) Permalink
― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:56 (9 years ago) Permalink
― dave q, Thursday, 7 August 2003 18:31 (9 years ago) Permalink
I really think Fred Frith's entire career has been one long steady climb.
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 7 August 2003 18:47 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:41 (9 years ago) Permalink
Has anyone heard 'Sketch of Now', a set of compositions by Tim that came out on Mode last year. I'm slightly curious.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 3 January 2008 22:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
Stockholm [£11] ReR HC7.
Ahead of the 40th Anniversary box set (see below) there will be a limited release of this CD in September. Stockholm will form part of the box set, and if you subscribe to the box, we will send this CD alone as soon as it is out and the rest of the box will follow when it is released. If you want this CD alone and decide later to get the box anyway, we’ll send you the box minus Stockholm, cheaper than the full price, so either way you won’t have to buy anything twice. Stockholm is a high quality Swedish Radio recording, made in 1977, that includes Tim’s epic Erk Gah (now known as Hold to the Zero Burn), Phil Ochs’ No More Songs and The March - none of which we ever recorded for CD release - plus Ottawa Song & other, untitled, pieces. Over an hour of music, taken from the original radio tapes and re-mastered for this edition by Bob Drake.
THIS IS ALSO PART OF SUBSCRIPTION 2, which will be released toward the end of the year:
THE 40th ANNIVERSARY HENRY COW BOX SET
40th ANNIVERSARY BOX SET Volumes 1 & 2
9 CDs and 1 DVD with 2 substantial books - in two solid Boxes. LIMITED EDITION.
Assembled over 15 years, this collection gives for the first time some idea of the breadth and depth of Henry Cow’s work. Always very much a live band, performance was their metier, and a concert might range far - always driven by an intense dialogue between tightly knit compositions and radically open improvisation. The officially released LPs tell at best only half this story, and one purpose of this definitive collection is to set the work back into its broader context. These are all previously unreleased recordings, that include many compositions and improvisations new to anyone who only knows the official releases, documentation of a number of one-off projects and events and - where different or remarkable enough to justify inclusion - live versions of parts of the LP repertoire. Many of these recordings are high quality radio transcriptions taken directly from the original masters, others are less hi-fi, but justified we think by their historic and musical quality. And everything has been carefully transferred and re-mastered by Bob Drake to the best audio quality that current technology allows without interference or tampering. It’s all a million times better than the terrible bootlegs that are swimming around. Altogether, these 9 CDs embody some extraordinary, and occasionally prescient music. Taking this box together with the officially released albums, it is possible at last to get some impression of the extensive ground Henry Cow covered in it’s 10 short years. Finally, there is the DVD: 80 minutes of the 1976 Cow (with Georgina Born and Dagmar Krause) performing many unreleased pieces as well as Living in the Heart of The Beast, Beautiful as the Moon &c. This is the only known video recording in existence - professionally made, multi camera - and has not been recovered since its original broadcast (just scour U-Tube, HC is conspicuous by its total absence). And last but not least, there is a great deal of written, photographic and textual documentation. Since this will probably be the last and definitive collection, it has to be thorough. For reasons of fairness and cost we have decided to split the set into two boxes - which can be bought separately or together. VOL 1 covers the period 1971 to the 1976 Hamburg radio show which documents John Greaves’ last concert with the band, as well as the extraordinary Trondheim concert from the quartet tour that immediately followed. VOL 2 takes the story through to 1978 and includes more previously undocumented compositions as well as the Bremen radio recording. The Stockholm CD belongs to this second box, which also contains the DVD.
better order this before I figure out what the exchange rate on 99 pounds is
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 19:36 (4 years ago) Permalink
well damn. i already have the studio album box set... swoon.
― Mackro Mackro, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 21:49 (4 years ago) Permalink
Just got the Stockholm disc. Haven't had a chance to listen to it :( . Anyone else? (I'm guessing it's great, but just want to hear others salivate.)
― obamaloverholeinyohead (Mackro Mackro), Wednesday, 8 October 2008 04:17 (4 years ago) Permalink
don't have the disc yet, only a 15 year old cassette. but from the hours of cow bootlegs I've heard I can tell why they led with that one, it's incredible
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 8 October 2008 04:54 (4 years ago) Permalink
I'll give a listen tonight, time permitting, but just wanted to clarify I got this disc as the teaser for the big live box set order... so if you ordered the box set re: the deal above, you should be getting your Stockholm CD shortly!
― obamaloverholeinyohead (Mackro Mackro), Wednesday, 8 October 2008 16:20 (4 years ago) Permalink
stockholm is pretty good but it may pall in comparison to some of the rest.
1st review (and it's extensive) of the whole thing at allaboutjazz:
I can't wait for that DVD.
Also: apparently there is a very slight delay in despatch due to another new find being added to the special disk for subscribers.
― nonightsweats, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:36 (4 years ago) Permalink
― nonightsweats, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:37 (4 years ago) Permalink
I can see why they chose Stockholm / Goteborg as the lead CD -- they way they edited those two shows together to feature almost of all of the compositions that didn't make it onto their last record, it basically becomes an approximation of what their 5th original studio album would have sounded like, so it's a good choice to have it available seperately -- the first time I heard the CD, I was pissed they faded out the (incredible) live version of 'Ruins' from the Stockholm show, but since they played that at almost every one of their shows, making a listenable box set means they had to
But I agree, it's the live improvs that's going to wake people up. this band's studio albums were great, but they didn't touch what they got up to live.
most of the sets are available online for the people who want every last second of what happened & don't care as much about fidelity, but that review confirms that every one of these discs has been sequenced like an album
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:36 (4 years ago) Permalink
I mean the whole reason I'm into this place is the cleared playing field where Asmus Tietchens threads pop up right next to Billy Joel but if you guys can't keep a thread on the best prog band in the world in new answers for more than a day I'm seriously going to give up on this place
― Milton Parker, Thursday, 15 January 2009 01:49 (4 years ago) Permalink
I don't own any Henry Cow -- some Frith. But this set looks incredible.
― Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 15 January 2009 03:19 (4 years ago) Permalink
i'm glad there's no more version of "erk gah" (although i'll be happy to see it on the dvd). it still annoys me for whatever reason and it makes the stockholm disk a lot less appealing. the version of "no more songs" is terrific.
― nonightsweats, Thursday, 15 January 2009 03:36 (4 years ago) Permalink
I'm into it, but it's pretty clear why the group broke up over that piece, it defines uncompromising at the exact moment that cutler & frith were getting into writing songs. the freeform noise sections of the disc are incredible and 'No More Songs' and the Frith march at the end bring the tunes.
I like this version of 'Erk Gah' a lot better than the studio version Hodgkinson put out later, so maybe it's just relative
The '74 Halsteren gig where they loop and stretch out on all the chords & riffs that ended up being 'Living In The Heart Of The Beast' shows that even Hodgkinson's trickiest compositions have very catchy melodies all over them, he just goes for density instead of repetition so the choicest bits only come out on repeat listens
― Milton Parker, Thursday, 15 January 2009 04:23 (4 years ago) Permalink
i always heard the melodies in "living" but "erk" just doesn't seem to have them for me: i've listened to the solo hodgkinson version many times and various bootlegs too. i'm sure it's just one of those pieces i'll never like. but, yes, the improv tracks are terrific and i'm sure there'll be lots more of those in the package. if there's anything as good as "udine" from "concerts" i'll be well pleased.
it's interesting that hodgkinson also went to a more song driven group - the work - after a little while. they all seemed to keep this going in the 'post-punk' years, even lindsay cooper to some extent. maybe we should blame georgie born for the insistance on long-form stuff? but how could you with that fabulous cd-tray photo of her in the stockholm disk - completely blissed out whilst playing live.
― nonightsweats, Saturday, 17 January 2009 05:56 (4 years ago) Permalink
the box has been despatched, apparently.
― nonightsweats, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 22:30 (4 years ago) Permalink
YES YES YES YES
(at the news of the box sets being sent out. This might be the last time I drop money on a limited box like this, but o how great this will be.)
― Ashee Bolanalli (Mackro Mackro), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 22:33 (4 years ago) Permalink
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 22:49 (4 years ago) Permalink
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 29 January 2009 11:04 (4 years ago) Permalink
Classic classic classic. Gave me a whole new appreciation for sox.
― factcheckr, Thursday, 29 January 2009 19:52 (4 years ago) Permalink
got it today - the DVD is fantastic. dagmar is mostly still throughout the 60 mins but ecstatic nonetheless, frith is on the run from one piece of equipment to another; cooper is quiet and concentrated, born is even more so, cutler is just magnificent, the kind of drummer any band would want and hodgkinson actually smiles from time to time - completely unexpected. much more visceral when you can see them play. 3 guys, 3 women, playing extraordinary music. the amount of sideburns on display takes hirsute to another level.
of the discs i've listened to - they're well worth the price: excellent selections from their whole timespan that expands their current suite.
more later, no doubt.
― nonightsweats, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 07:21 (4 years ago) Permalink
So those of us who only have the studio albums should plunk down for box 1 & 2 I take it? Or is there some reason to get box 3 beyond "ooh, matching boxes" completist enthusiasm?
Funny to see an old post here where I'm enthusing about Unrest. I just listened to that last week, and that shit still blows me away.Can't say I have much use for the DVD though, but I suppose it's kind of cool that it even exists.
― Øystein, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 11:15 (4 years ago) Permalink
as a subscriber i got an empty 3rd box but i already have all the remastered releases so they fit in quite neatly. truthfully, the DVD is excellent - you need it.
my favourite recordings so far are disks 4 and 5 - trondheim where "john had just left, dagmar was unwell and the tour was already booked. we had a meeting where we abandoned the idea of attempting a written programme and decided to improvise in the dark instead". tim h, fred f and lindsay c prepared 2 hour tapes that were started at the same time and ran throughout the concert. they then faded them in whenever they though it might be a good idea but they had no real idea what was on the tape at that particular time. over this they improvise superbly with limited equiptment - the overall effect is quite dark and disturbing with snatches of vocals interspersed with stark organ chords, etc.
― nonightsweats, Wednesday, 4 February 2009 05:22 (4 years ago) Permalink
Unlikely though it may seem, given our general poverty at around this time, we visited -- and contemplated buying -- a giant dairy complex near Stevenage. It had been built, we were told, earlier in the century by an eccentric millionare for his mistress, a vast oval building with a football-pitch-sized open courtyard in the centre, an imposing pair of towers either side of its entrance and a winding covered way leading out into the fields behind. From the air it was designed to look like a cow. I wouldn't dare make this up. For money we were planning to use the generous fee in prospect for composing a third of the soundtrack for Alejandro Jodorowsky's planned film adaptation of Frank Herbert's 'Dune'. Jodorowsky had come to the Rome concert in the Piazza Navona withn Michel Seydoux, his Parisian backer and had told us [as Tim remembers it] that we were the most advanced musicians, he was the most advanced director, and we were going to do something great together. He came again to see us in Paris. The project began to look serious. Now Virgin got involved. At the beginning, each of the three planets in the story would be represented musically by Karlheinz Stockhausen, Henry Cow and Magma respectively. Then Stockhausen pulled out -- well, I don't know what really happened but suddenly Pink Floyd were to be planet three. That's where it all started to go wrong -- from our point of view. Maybe six months into the story I had to go see Jodorowsky at the Savoy Hotel. I was in the middle of seeing if I could go a year without wearing shoes and, to get to the place I had to borrow Richard Branson's shoes (and a tie). Richard waited in the car I think. We were told Pink Floyd's management were pushing hard to get Magma and us booted off the project so that Pink Floyd could do all of it. It dragged on for a while longer but nothing got past talk and hustle until eventually, the whole project was dropped, the rights were sold on, and after Ridley Scott had taken up and then abandoned it, David Lynch made a lackluster, forgettable version of the story. I still have the original -- lavish -- promotional book with highly exotic costume designs, plot resume and storyboard extracts: it would have pipped Star Wars to the post. Salvidor Dali was booked to play the Emperor of the Universe. -CC
― Milton Parker, Friday, 6 February 2009 08:41 (4 years ago) Permalink
I was in the middle of seeing if I could go a year without wearing shoes
lol. if anything was right about the world that movie had been made
― sonderangerbot, Friday, 6 February 2009 19:05 (4 years ago) Permalink
I love how they put that freaking sock on everything.
― i'm shy (Abbott), Friday, 6 February 2009 19:13 (4 years ago) Permalink
I actually got into an argument with someone who hated the socks and I kind of trusted them a mite less after that.
Box looks RAD but why no sox on the box?
― i'm shy (Abbott), Friday, 6 February 2009 19:15 (4 years ago) Permalink
File under Problems You Want To Have, but the third box is useless to me, aside from the "OW" in the outer spine for display purposes, because I already have a cardboard-sleeve box set edition of the studio albums from 2004(?), so none of those fit in the 3rd box anyway. I could put Vol 11: Stockholm in there but that's about it.
I'll use the 3rd box as extra knick knack storage.
― System Jr. (Mackro Mackro), Friday, 6 February 2009 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink
(btw, I just got this late last night, so I'll follow up with thoughts once I get through some of this)
― System Jr. (Mackro Mackro), Friday, 6 February 2009 19:42 (4 years ago) Permalink
there's the mangiest sock ever on the cover of the 11th subscriber-only CD.
I went through the first half of the DVD last night. Seeing Dagmar at full frail power in 1976 sort of threw me for a loop.
xpost you mean you don't have both the remasters and the original early 90's ESD reissues with the remixes? get cracking
― Milton Parker, Friday, 6 February 2009 19:43 (4 years ago) Permalink
sadly no, I just got the plebeian remasters box set with the bonus 3" CD instead. excuse me while I go harvest the potatoes for me lord.
― System Jr. (Mackro Mackro), Friday, 6 February 2009 19:50 (4 years ago) Permalink
the japanese one with small sleeves? I saw a copy of that one once and god it was beautiful. the family tree poster. what's on the 3" cd?
― Milton Parker, Friday, 6 February 2009 20:12 (4 years ago) Permalink
can you still subscribe for this box or did I miss out?
― Alan N, Friday, 6 February 2009 20:24 (4 years ago) Permalink
here's the box I was talking about:
Bonus 3" CD-single: "Unreleased Orckestra Extract"Contains previously unreleased material taken from live performances in Europe by The Orckestra in April 1978. Given to advance subscribers of the box set."Untitled" (Frith) – 3:40 "Would You Prefer Us to Lie?" (Cutler, Greaves) – 8:03
"Untitled" (Frith) – 3:40 "Would You Prefer Us to Lie?" (Cutler, Greaves) – 8:03
― System Jr. (Mackro Mackro), Friday, 6 February 2009 21:02 (4 years ago) Permalink
I haven't checked but maybe that 3" CD is obsolete now?
― System Jr. (Mackro Mackro), Friday, 6 February 2009 21:03 (4 years ago) Permalink
Alan, this is the RER direct link to the recent live box set
― System Jr. (Mackro Mackro), Friday, 6 February 2009 21:06 (4 years ago) Permalink
Karlheinz Stockhausen, Henry Cow and Magma respectively
this seems utterly plausible
― Dominique, Friday, 6 February 2009 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink
I'm bringing the DVD to your party tomorrow night and we're going to watch it while everyone else at the party is having fun
― Milton Parker, Friday, 6 February 2009 21:32 (4 years ago) Permalink
ha ha, the moment on 'Hamburg 3' where the band is just playing increasingly spaced out diffuse noise ala 'Deluge' and Dagmar just quietly comes in whispering the melody to Slapp Happy's 'A Little Something'
still only 4 discs in. it's a slow build, the first disc is more interesting for being early than compelling, but the 11th subscriber-only disc is 60 minutes and it's all pretty great & freeform.
that note in the liners about how these have been edited... yes these have really been edited. usually transparently / plausibly, but the aesthetic here is that the original tapes are just raw material, these were all trimmed down for repeat listening
― Milton Parker, Saturday, 7 February 2009 03:04 (4 years ago) Permalink
just about every disc is fantastic, but yeah, 4/5 Trondheim is really something
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 18:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
Chris Cutler answering questions on AAJ:
― _Rockist__Scientist_, Friday, 13 February 2009 23:26 (4 years ago) Permalink
UK ilxors, Amazon currently have The Studio box set (5 CDs) for £14.47! Looking forward to it as the original CD versions I have sound a bit gash.
― A prog venn diagram for you to think about (Matt #2), Sunday, 8 August 2010 00:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
that is a criminal bargain
both volumes of 'the road' box set is beyond belief really. the first two discs I don't return to all that often, yeah, but the real surprise is the amount of completely composed material throughout, they had enough for 3-4 additional studio albums. the other thing is just how much absurdly ON IT they were as a live band, the live versions of familiar pieces are just completely on fire, they just tear it all to shreds
so anyone worried that this 10 disc box set is mostly like the ambient / completely abstract side of what they do, nope, it is split 50/50 between abstract freeform & compositions that are so good it is just confusing that it took until the 30th anniversary for them to come out
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 8 August 2010 00:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
proof my paragraph for me ok? ok
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 8 August 2010 00:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
UK ilxors, Amazon currently have The Studio box set (5 CDs) for £14.47!
Thanks for the heads up, duly ordered. Not restricted to UK either as they are shipping it to Europe for me for only £2 p&p!
― margana (anagram), Sunday, 8 August 2010 09:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
did anyone read the Chris Cutler letter in the new issue of the Wire? it's pretty epic: http://thewire.co.uk/articles/6715/
― geeta, Friday, 27 May 2011 08:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
For what's worth, I think he's obviously right.
― Marco Damiani, Friday, 27 May 2011 09:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
Kinda teasing fans there with the prospect of a reconstituted Cow
― Tom D has taken many months to run this thread to ground (Tom D.), Friday, 27 May 2011 11:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
He's not 'obviously right' at all. Some of the things he says are right, but certainly not all, and the conclusions he draws from some things do not necessarily follow.
This piece from Records on Ribs is a great contribution to the debate as far as I'm concerned: To Free or Not to Free. (Full disclosure: I do know them, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything they say here - I just think it's a very well considered addition to the subject.)
― emil.y, Friday, 27 May 2011 11:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
"As Cutler notes, plumbers do not work for free. But capitalism is not the end of history and perhaps one day plumbers will work for free"
Thanks for the tip; while I can appreciate the effort put in the label, phrases like this are a bit puzzling, at least for me.
― Marco Damiani, Friday, 27 May 2011 13:29 (1 year ago) Permalink
Not sure if this is being patronising, but the 'end of history' thing is a reference to Fukuyama's book, in which he claims our state of Western capitalist democracy is indeed the end point of cultural evolution.
― emil.y, Friday, 27 May 2011 15:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
No problem - for what's worth, I find Fukuyama and his Hegelian mannerisms pretty simplistic too. Still the idea of a society based on "gift economies, common ownership and mutual aid" seems to me wishful thinking, at the same time beautiful and slightly terrifying.
― Marco Damiani, Friday, 27 May 2011 16:29 (1 year ago) Permalink
Cutler's response was actually written a few years ago in response to filesharing and repurposed as a response to Kenny's column but it's still a live topic
this struck me as a slightly patronizing tone to take towards the individual who wrote the lyrics for "In Praise Of Learning" & "The World As It Is Today" but the Internet means that the conversation usually gotten started before a round of formal introductions. I agree that RoR's (ha ha) idealism is kind of charming but Cutler's been living in the real world for a few decades
as the owner who started what I basically consider to be the most important independent art music label of the 80's and early 90's, Cutler gets to hardline his points -- I learned the canon of most of what I consider to be important through Recommended Records' catalog during that time, and there was no one -- no one else keeping this music in print at that time.
― Milton Parker, Friday, 27 May 2011 18:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
is there really not a RIO thread?
Posting here then: http://www.indiegogo.com/RomanticWarriors?c=home
Anyone interested in Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Samla, Magma...basically any experimental prog, needs to watch this and contribute to this documentary. They have all the major players, and the story needs to be told, and out there for all to see.
― Dominique, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 16:12 (1 year ago) Permalink