Tortoise: Classic or Dud

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I'll recite the conventional argument like a litany.

Are they brilliant post-rock pioneers, forging new terrain with unfashionably organic instruments replicating the structures of minimalist electronica?

Or are they a gigantic scum-sucking dud that harnessed:

(a) hipster cred from once-upon-a-time being in lame punk bands (b) a tape-crashing gimmick that sounded cool the first two [2] times you heard it (c) a very large and fashionable collection of old Can records

and fused the three to produce middlebrow elevator music, Philip Glass wanking in an interminable toked-up jam band, music so inoffensively pleasant as to be unpleasant?

― Ian White, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

i'm not quite sure why Tortoise have become the almost hate figures they have (snidey hipsterism?). they are rather dull though

― gareth, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I must be listening to the wrong Toroise records (only know Millions and TNT) because the Can/Krautrock comparison always seemed way off. What Tortoise song has the funky drive of Can? Something from the first record? The stuff I hear is just smoothmellow melody.

I enjoy DJed when I listeen to it, which is almost never. And the guitar refrain in "TNT" is excellent. But they've always struck me as pretty, well, I hate to say it, boring. Maybe I'm not listening closely enough.

There's an interesting piece on the Space Age Bachelor website about Tortoise. His idea is that the band is so bland fans of all kinds are able to read whatever they like into the music (i.e., the Slint fans hear Slint, d'n'b fans hear d'n'b, jazz fans hear jazz...all the while none of these things are done well & the synthesis isn't particularly interesting.) Seems pretty accurate to me. But as I say, maybe they'll click for me some day. It's not impossible.

― Mark, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I find mysel f at the same time loving Tortoise and being bored by them. I guess its like watching STalker or Solaris

― Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

"Stalker" & "Solaris" are poss my 2 favourite films. I like tortoise a bit, esp "millions now living...." But Edward Artemiev (soundtrack composer for Tarkovski movies) is, like 10000000x better.

xoxo

― Norman Fay, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I wanted to like Tortoise, many of my friends do, and liking them would give me the post-rock cred that I crave... unfortunately, the only album I've got (the first one) is an annoying bore, and come to think of it, it's high time I traded it away.

― Sean, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Having found the earlier records, especially TNT, very, very dull, I was really taken with "Standards" - one the biggest surprises of the year. There is definitely a funky edge to trax like Eden 2, Eros and Six Pack, and although you could argue that it's slightly reminiscent of a 'how to make funk from its component parts' science project, it's good fun. I wish they'd lose the marimba (or whatever it is), though.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Am always surprised at the bile that gets heaped on Tortoise on this forum - sometimes wonder if it's a post-punk hang-up abt groups with v. obvious 'chops' dabbling in anti-chop styles like electronica etc. When I finally saw them live at ATP this year I realised that the bass sound is v. v. important in their music - relatively unusual to see a 'rock' group where the rhythm section is featured more than the guitar front-line, which is why I suppose they attract Can comparisons. They're 'important' because, for me at least, they pointed a way out of the grunge wilderness - and as always, they shouldn't be blamed for all the lame Tortoise imitators who have come along since.

And I LOVE the marimba!! John McEntire one of all the all-time great percussionists.

― Andrew L, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Note that Andrew's point was what I was trying to get at during the "NSync makes brilliant record" thread -- bands like Tortoise as a striking new direction after what seemed like the major-label- sponsored "death" of the American guitar band.

And I suppose I'll be the first one here to come out massively in favor of "classic" status. I'm a bit surprised at the number of "dull" tags being put on them here -- I've always found them quite the opposite -- but I can't put my finger on what particular quality might be responsible for that split. I'm guessing it has something to do with context, and the "new direction" posited above: for those who'd spent the years preceding Tortoise's emergence following a largely rock-ish or pop-ish indie scene, I suppose the band was far more likely to seem energized and worth-every-second. If you'd spent the early nineties listening to old Cluster records, perhaps that effect would be diminished. But I'd offer, in their defense, that their lack of dullness has to do with the fact that unlike many of their antecedents, they were surprisingly not all about texture: their compositions have always struck me as far more sophisticated, melodic, and linear than many of the units one might argue they sound like. Which is to say: I think their "sound" is a red herring in terms of evaluating them, because the definable compositions beneath that "sound" would hold up equally well with a different presentation. I love bands like this, where what seems like a "sound" in the presentation sense turns out to be created more by the composition -- more by what they're playing -- than how they're playing or producing it.

As for classic status, this was cemented for me by Standards. I was somewhat afraid that they'd seem a little pale by that point, with the freshness of the scene long worn off -- but it still amazed me. I think they're one example of the genre that will continue to have relevance whatever the fate of the scene.

― Nitsuh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Oh, DISCLAIMER: the construction above isn't necessarily intended to read that Cluster were "all about texture." More that Tortoise's early-90s peers were using those sorts of Germanic influences more as wallpaper than as 2x4s.

― Nitsuh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

'Millions Now Living' (excellent J.W. reference, a slap at Jacko perhaps?) was great, it gently persuaded the listener to follow where it was going, and soon you were somewhere you didn't expect to get but was glad you got there. 'Standards' was dreadful, so linear in its execution that all the elements just sat there, not gelling, not even touching. The joins showed, except they didn't even join anything. (As I said on the N'Sync thread, it sounded like they were confused by musical questions that had been solved in the pop field years ago and forgotten, like they're trying and failing to reinvent the wheel over and over again, whereas Stereolab at least comes out and admits they're reinventing the outboard motor.)
Oh, and to be really unoriginal, I agree with everybody who says they destroyed Stereolab.

― dave q, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

One of the really great mysteries of recent times: I genuinely have no idea what people enjoy about their music. I mean, I can see the point of a lot of stuff I can't stand (metal, really dull housey stuff) but Tortoise really bewildered me. I got sent one of their albums (TNT possibly) sat down and gave a decent listen. Or tried to, but after half a track the urge to do some filing overcame me. Doesn't have anything to do with pop (in the broadest sense) as I understand it. Do people who like Tortoise like Keith Jarrett and other things I can't fathom?

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I like the first three albums quite a bit, though I find myself listening to TNT more than the other two. As 'Millions' happened to be in a box on top of the stack I just moved, I put it in the player this morning for a long nap. I think the mention of 'Solaris' is apt; sometimes, Tortoise are boring. I don't really mind. It's rather pleasant sometimes. Lots of music has boring parts, I think people are just misled into thinking Tortoise's are more boring because they're quieter or more repetitive, or whatever.

I've only heard Standards a couple times and found it dire. I will try again though eventually. The opening to the first track: awesome. The 'funk' - scary.

And yes I like Keith Jarrett.

― Josh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

thank you josh. i always suspected that tortoise fans actually like boring music.

― sundar subramanian, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Ha ha, you jest but some of the tapes you sent me were boring - BUT I STILL LIKED THEM. Oh the maddening contradictions.

― Josh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tortoise, by their pre-Standards work (as I don't know the new one), can't be judged on pop terms. Nor on technoid dance terms, nor on jazz terms. They come close, I think, to the pleasures of classical music as delivering slow, cumulative, payoffs. Indeed they are blissfully calm often, but that frequently conceals detailed rhythmic and melodic structure and growth. Tortoise = ambient?

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Yeah Tortoise = ambient or that's the way I use it (I like all the albums). And 'Djed' is good dope-smoking music, it has that "err, how did we end up here" quality ;)

― Omar, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I can't say if Tortoise wrecked Stereolab yet because Dots And Loops is on high rotate for me at the moment,but I resent the omnipresence of John McEntire and wish he didn't have to pop up on every other post-rock record.

― Damian, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Further to Omar's dope-smoking test - 'Djed' is 'wow, leave this on', whereas 'Standards' is 'Just how long has this fucking thing been on?'

― dave q, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

See, I think we might have isolated the problem here: Tortoise (and their equally boring associates) ended up to some extent being marketed at people (ie: me) who have no interest in them or any music that burbles away in the background. Maybe on the grounds that the audience was meant to follow the Squirrel Bait - Slint - Tortoise path. And so we listened to Tortoise - because people said "hey listen to Tortoise!" and thought "What is this noodley shit?" and were resentful, and thus ranted about it, whereas I never rant about Keith Jarrett because he and all that other boring stuff exists in another realm that never bothers me.

― Mark Morris, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I just want to mention that I'm wholly surprised so few people here like this band. I feel like I should have some better argument as to why they're not dull or boring -- because I honestly can't see how someone might find this the case -- but not a whole lot springs to mind. I'd argue with the "noodling" tag, however, as everything of theirs (with the possible exception of the first record) is pretty highly structured and through-composed, and it's only on Standards than anyone (Parker, mainly) starts taking "leads" in the noodly sense.

I also think there's a performativity issue here: groups that sound like them are usually best listened to as non-performative creations, while they're best appreciated as a tightly-organized performative unit? Seeing them live changed my take on this slightly, and made me like them even more. . .

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I would've guessed there were some more who like the band too, Nitsuh. Give em a few days. ;)

― Josh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

ambrose, where are you? lost under a huge pile of Thrill Jockey records?

― gareth, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Theory: out of all the "post-rock" bands, Tortoise uniquely managed to thoroughly strip the blues away from their work. Thus, for them the post- is not a prefix, but a negation. This is both their blessing and their curse.

Discuss.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

do you see it as something special that a post-rock band is doing this? because blues-less rock is hardly a new thing. (but i don't hear all that much blues in post-rock anyway. if anything, tortoise's jazz influences might bring more blues to their music.)

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

All traces. The guitarwork is unblues (as opposed to ANY rock guitarwork) -- focused on tone and duration rather than harmonics, tune, et cet. The rhythms are unblues -- not a 4/4 with downbeats on 1 and 3 to be found. The melodic figures, such as they exist, owe no debt to the blues tradition -- they're not minor so much as modal. I find this quite unique.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Maybe that's why I like them. I tend to want my music scrubbed as free from blues as is reasonable to expect from a blues- derived genre like rock.

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Nitsuh -- rilly? Why's that? (In this vein, the velvets had the short period where they banned blues riffs fromt he band. Well, relatively long period. It helped them resist the claptonizing invasion, granted, but never destroyed the fact that Booker T and Green Onions were pretty damn similar at some fundamental level. That goes twice for Sister Ray.)

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I don't know, Sterling. I think it has something to do with my very earliest musical influences being new wave (a pretty blues-free idiom) at ages 4-6, and then a lot of oldies (in the 50s vocal-group doo-wop sense) for a few years after that. I grew up fairly anti- rock, never really understanding why my fellow middle-schoolers liked Guns 'n' Roses or Bon Jovi or really anything more rock than pop. I got over this around age 13 or so, as I really started listening to music in an exploratory way, but that anti-rock (or anti- bluesy rock, anyway) feeling has lingered. Hence lots of arguments, as a teenager, about why many of my friends liked Smashing Pumpkins and I didn't: it was the stadium-rock guitar that was turning me off.

Never understood Zeppelin, or the Stones, or anything with that up- front blues/rock feel. Well, I understand it now, and can enjoy it, but it's not a formative influence like it is with most people.

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

i love tortoise. im not going to justify myself, even though im scared to be so bold.... i really like them. i especially like the stuff they did that even tortoise fans HATE ie not the 1st 2 albums.....

am i a dickhead

― ambrose, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

just managed to get to a computer, gareth..it was hell out there, all those toroise tour 7"s and nice cover artwork.... in fatc i love ALL the horrid wishy washy boring 'nice' artists on the archtypal boring, wishy washy etc label THRILL JOCKEY!

sam prekop, have my babies!

brokeback! i luv yr noodley bass nonsense.

er, and all the other ones.

anyway, thrill jockey do have the lonesome organist who is well good.

oh, im gonna fight my corner a bit re tortoise. many people here nad everywhere think they are very boring....well, many people here (maybe the same) luv missy elliott and her '....so addictive'. well i am listening to it now (1 pound from russia....) and i think THAT is pretty boring.

er i dont know what that proves, but im just a bit bored myself, of snide hipster posturing......i guess everyone likes having a common

― , Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Would depend on yer definition of post-rock there, Sterling. Are they further away from the blues than Seefeel? Limit it to just Thrill Jockey and we're talking a whole 'nother matter.

― Tim, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Maybe that's why I like them. I tend to want my music scrubbed as free from blues as is reasonable to expect from a blues- derived genre like rock.

Have you tried black-metal? It's a lot more amusing than Tortoise, and there's no blues at all!

― Kris, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Well, you got me there. I never thought of seefeel as postrock. Laika, on the other hand.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Nitsuh, it's interesting that you bring up Smashing Pumpkins here, who I've always considered to be pretty damned un-bluesy. Corgan's guitar playing is often very modal - "Quiet" is in, like, F# Phrygian, dude! Seriously, though, I think you're a lot like my roommate in this respect, who says he pretty much despises blues influences. But I think it might be the arena-rock posturing that turns him off even more than the blues influences. He says that hair metal, and most 70s stadium rock, actually make him feel physically ill. What do you think about that stuff? BTW, I do like a lot of Tortoise's stuff, although I don't feel much personal connection with it at all. It's fascinatingly clinical, if that makes any sense. My favorite Tortoise track is #2 off Millions...

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

reviving to counter the tortoise hating:

tortoise albums = inconsistent;
tortoise singles = great (the duophonic "gamera", the first two singles, the tortoise vs. autechre remixes, the jim o'rourke remixes).

the japanese digest compendium that blends the original tracks with rhythm resolutions and clusters remixes is the high point for me, "djed" is incredibly dense in sound.

anything done with bundy k. brown i've found to enjoy.

TNT lost me (although the nobukazu takemura remix is incredible), haven't heard anything since. i think that jeff parker is a good guitarist in theory, but his stylistic methods (volume pedal and overt jazzisms) were off-putting and eventually turned me off to the band.

― gygax!, Friday, 17 January 2003 19:41 (10 years ago) Permalink

overt jazzisms

Parker is a member of the AACM, you know.

gygax! whaddaya think of Pullman?

― hstencil, Friday, 17 January 2003 19:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

reviving to counter the tortoise hating

A nobly doomed effort.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 January 2003 19:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

i thought he was great in Lost Highway...

*raspberry*

you know, I never heard pullman but I really liked that Directions In Music thing with doug scharin. haha, wasn't chris brokaw also in that band? drums or guitar?

and Ned, why don't you go flounce off?

― gygax!, Friday, 17 January 2003 20:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think millions... is a great album. it's overflowing with new ideas and new collisions and really seems to be the product of a bunch of good rock'n'roll musicians all of a sudden falling in love with the possibilities of dub, jazz, and electronic manipulation.

everything afterwards, while still often enjoyable, just seems like smooth-jazz noodling in comparison.

― arjun (arjun), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

haha, wasn't chris brokaw also in that band?

No, but Ken "Don't Call Me Bundy" Brown was.

― hstencil, Friday, 17 January 2003 20:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

i saw them at that thrill jockey party at hackney ocean in september. i thought they were the most boring, audience-hating bunch of retards. it was such a predicable, routine performance.

and the audience wasn't much better. standing their stroking their chins and furrowing their brows. i was trying to fucking dance, dammit!

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:53 (10 years ago) Permalink

i can't say i really like, nor listen, to tortoise much any more (just put on the Gamera single - not too bad), but they were a major stepping stone in my musical knowledge back in the day.

near the end of college, listening to lots of "college rock" (pavement et al.), i discovered tortoise, and it really blew the door open for discovering non-rock bands that are amazing and influential. while not necesarilly introducing me to lots of styles, they made me really interested in new territories -- dub, kraut rock, prog, electronic, minimalist composers like steve reich and terry riley, ennio morricone, glitch [through label mates oval], more out forms of jazz.

i think after a while the whole post rock scene became very same-y, especially from the second generation of post-rock bands, who's influences were tortoise, rather than all of the aforementioned styles tortoise borrowed from.

i once met the band, while they were Tom Ze's back up band, and they were complete assholes

and Standards was a big steaming pile of dog doo

― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

oh, and after really getting into the styles of music which Tortoise built their sound around, i realized it's been done way better 30 years earlier

― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 17 January 2003 21:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

i saw them at that thrill jockey party at hackney ocean in september. i thought they were the most boring, audience-hating bunch of retards. it was such a predicable, routine performance.
and the audience wasn't much better. standing their stroking their chins and furrowing their brows. i was trying to fucking dance, dammit!

I saw them at the NYC show, and it was no good either. I've seen them a bunch live, tho, and that was the first time they were truly sucky. And I've danced during those other shows, too (and unlike Out Hud, they did not command me to!).

i once met the band, while they were Tom Ze's back up band, and they were complete assholes

hehehehe, well I can see that. Was that when Ze played Park West? I was at that show. Anyway, McEntire's kinda shy, which makes him seem aloof (I don't think he played with Ze). Herndon is kinda bratty sometimes. But Doug, Bitney and Jeff are some of the nicest guys I've known, ever. ESP. Doug. That man is totally a saint. Unpretentious, down-to-earth, willing and able to chat about anything/everything in a really cool way. If most "hatas" got to meet Doug and just talk with him for five mintues, their icy hearts would melt. Or not. I say that tho 'cause a lot of the hating has little to do with the music, and much to do with a (mis)perception of their personalities.

and Standards was a big steaming pile of dog doo

No disagreement here, bro-dy. Don't know why I own this.

― hstencil, Friday, 17 January 2003 21:41 (10 years ago) Permalink

Really liked the first LP and the "Gamera" 12" and the "Why We Fight" 7". And the first remix LP. Everything else I have forgotten about.

― mosurock (mosurock), Saturday, 18 January 2003 00:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

Hstencil you have back-up: I think Donut Bitch, during his whirlwind tour of the U.S., accidentally wound up chatting with some very nice guys by the Empty Bottle (one of whom turned out to be Doug).

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 18 January 2003 00:21 (10 years ago) Permalink

Dud. At a certain moment when post-hardcore / stagnating "indie rock" was tapped out, Tortoise came along and made every bad choice in moving beyond their roots. The choice to go instrumental; the academic "appreciation" for and "tasteful" emulation of a swath of very safely canonical-type avant-garde/underground/jazzish/dubby musics, each becoming drained of its life-blood when brought into the Tortoise mix; the pretentious "professionalism" of the band (whose members each seemed to want to be known as instrumental "players" in their own right); the deliberate "professionalism" of the production (from within the band itself); the feigned "unprofessionalism" of the TNT cover art; the messing with Stereolab (see above); the patent lack of fun in both their recordings and their live shows; the god-awful live cover version of the Art Ensemble of Chicago;---ACK ACK ACK! Yeah, they really bug the hell out of me. I sense that their intentions are generally good and yet the result is so bad--maybe that's what really bothers me. I mean it seems like they genuinely care about the music they like and which influences them, they have laudable DIY tendencies in wanting to also be repsonsible for the production side (thinking of McEntire here), they have some kind of ambition to push themselves into new directions--and yet, and yet all these bad things people say about them seem true, and I don't enjoy them a whit. So right but SOOOO wrong.

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Saturday, 18 January 2003 03:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

and Ned, why don't you go flounce off?

Shan't.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 18 January 2003 04:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

the god-awful live cover version of the Art Ensemble of Chicago

Oh jeez ... what AECO tune did they butcher?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 18 January 2003 07:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

Oh jeez ... what AECO tune did they butcher?

"Theme de Yo Yo", sans vocals, natch. It was ARGGGH-ifying.

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Saturday, 18 January 2003 15:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Theme de Yo Yo", sans vocals, natch

Natch.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 18 January 2003 19:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

That soundtracky sounding song on Millions... has got a pretty nice ambience to it, but the rest... eh.. pretty boring.

― Ian Johnson, Sunday, 19 January 2003 22:53 (10 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

I'm not that familiar with their other albums, but I listened to TNT again the other night and had forgotten just how pretty it is.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 15:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

I agree with the folks who sight their singles and remixes -- and yes, i too frequent albums from Keith Jarret (not boring, but rather, emotionally paced). Nobody has yet mentioned the In The Fishtank E.P. completed with the Ex -- see "Pleasure As Usual" for an engagingly vocal amalgam of the two.

― christoff (christoff), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 16:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

They're one of the most organic bands I can think of right now, in terms of sound-textures and composition. Like, I've yet to hear them play something that sounds out of place within the context of each piece. They're all very good at playing into each other (as opposed to playing off of each other). I also have never been too keen on Standards, but otherwise they're the fuckin' poo diggitty as far as I'm concerned. They're wonderful morning-sex music.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 16:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

Standards is my favourite that I own to be honest.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 21:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

i'm listening to the 6th song on the directions in music album... wow.

anyone listened to this lately? i think it's aged much better than the tortoise stuff.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 18 September 2003 06:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

mixwise, this song is the perfect bridge between tortoise's "his second storey island" and "gamera"/"goriri" (i'm pretty sure both bundy brown-era tortoise material)...

the drone dissolving into the concrete then the emergence of the acoustic passages and finally the abstract jungle beats into reverse synth bleeding.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 18 September 2003 06:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

my woman used to love that Directions in Music album, but i sold it......sux to be her

― JasonD (JasonD), Thursday, 18 September 2003 06:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

The four minutes or so of Djed leading up to the tape fuck-up, or whatever one chooses to call it, are utterly classic IMO. Too bad it wasn't a standalone song.

― Damian (Damian), Thursday, 18 September 2003 11:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

These days, I'm constantly taken aback by how many new jazz albs these days borrow bits and pieces of the Tortoise 'sound' (Jaga Jazzist are the most obv example)

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Thursday, 18 September 2003 17:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

If Tortoise were actually a jazz band, I think they might be the Brian Blade Fellowship (or maybe it's just the Jeff Parker crossover talking).

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 September 2003 18:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

TNT is indeed very pretty - I am listening to it right now and it is stunning.

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 19:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

They do I cover of Robert Ashley's In Sara mumble mumble mumble? That's a little intriguing..

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 January 2004 19:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

yeah i wondered was that a cover or "inspired by" or what - in fact it was someone mentioning sara mumble mumble in another thread today that made me dig this out again.

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 19:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

I haven't heard it, but saw that they did it and the title had to be more than a coincidence. (I describe it the way I do partly because I can't remember the exact wording of the title, but Ashely does do I lot of mumbling. I like his speaking style though, overall. I once overheard him talking at a music festival event: "That is [pause] sublime." The way he said it was wonderful)

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 January 2004 19:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Aha - i have never heard it and now i want to. The tortoise versione is called "In Sara, Mencken, Christ and Beethoven there were Women and Men" as opposed to "...there were Men and Women" in the Ashley version.

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 19:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's not really great or anything, but worth hearing. My favorite Ashley doesn't seem to be available on CD. It's Perfect Live/Private Parts: The Bar.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 January 2004 20:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

the Ashley piece is a setting of the poem by John Barton Wolgamot. the Tortoise piece could be a direct reference to the poem, who knows.

Rockist: 'The Bar' is available on the three disc version of Perfect Lives, but it's a slightly different recording. That is an exceptional piece. He should get a whole thread, I'm an Ashley fanatic.

― (Jon L), Saturday, 3 January 2004 00:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

I want the original recording though. I think I heard the new one and didn't like it. (I'm very reactionary about recordings of old experimental favorites.) At least I still have my vinyl copy in storage.

I didn't know the Ashley piece was based on someone else's poem.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 3 January 2004 01:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

you're right, the original 'The Bar' is better. it's a fantastic record. don't know what's holding up the CD reissue, it'd fit on one disc with ashley's 'music word fire' disco 12" (which many people hate, but I don't).

and the only thing the tortoise piece has in common with the ashley piece is the namedrop. still no need to listen to tortoise.

― (Jon L), Saturday, 3 January 2004 01:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

Is that "Music Word Fire" the one that goes something like I coo coo you coo coo, etc. I don't think I liked it at first, but I think I got to like it.

But I bought some later Ashley that didn't hook me in, so I've kind of backed off from his work. (I can't think of the title right now, but it was a large-scale opera type thing.) Also, "The Bar" is really my favorite part of that Perfect Lives work.

I guess one of us should start an Ashley thread. You know more than I do, but if you start one some time, I'll chime in, maybe think of something new to say (maybe not).

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 3 January 2004 01:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

next time I gain the courage to start another thread that'll sink to the bottom three posts later, it'll be an Ashley thread. but I'm unreliable, I've crossed the threshhold and I can even appreciate most of the operas. But 'Automatic Writing', 'The Wolfman', and the hidden secret 'Yellow Man With Heart With Wings'.

didn't mean to be anti-Tortoise above, they certainly were better than many things in the 90's.

― (Jon L), Saturday, 3 January 2004 02:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

ubuweb has a PDF of Wolgamot's poem online here, along with the liner notes. I have the Cramps edition, had never read the story behind the poem; wow.

― (Jon L), Saturday, 3 January 2004 02:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I read that with amazement, but by the end I was wondering if this whole story is a prank. You're sure it's legit?

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 3 January 2004 03:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

who knows, stranger things. in the end there's only the poem itself really.

frustrating to realize only the rough tape survived. think of what they could have done with a more detailed mixdown.

― (Jon L), Saturday, 3 January 2004 03:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

UBUWeb is incredible - i could spend 2 lifetimes looking through it. My frind has a long prose-poem on it here if you are interested.

― jed (jed_e_3), Saturday, 3 January 2004 03:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

i think its really good and ill look forward to reading that Wolgamot Poem, thanks.

― jed (jed_e_3), Saturday, 3 January 2004 03:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

I finally listened to "Djed" and it's not awful. I think I would have liked it more if I heard it back in the 80's than I do now (not that it was there to be heard then). The minimalist/Krautrock/prog. blend is less appealing to me now than it was then. I like something a little more rhythmically articulated. (I don't know if that's really the right word, but I like how it sounds.) But, this is okay. I could see myself possibly getting to like it more.

I don't see what the big deal with the "tape crash" thing is.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Monday, 31 May 2004 01:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

I like the marimba (or whatever it is).

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Monday, 31 May 2004 01:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure I need to buy it though.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Monday, 31 May 2004 01:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

I got It's All Around You the other day. Meh. Works if I'm in the right mood.

― Pack Yr Romantic Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 31 May 2004 02:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

I still like it.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 31 May 2004 03:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Surprisingly, Tortoise put on one of the funnest shows I've ever attended.

― Mike Stuchbery, Monday, 31 May 2004 11:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

I listened to Millions Now Living again last night. Some of it is too fusion-y for me. One track was surprisingly similar to Ralph Lundsten (not a name I see mentioned too much), with some space rock mixed in.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 13:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

I heard that "Salt the Skies" track from the new album and really liked it, so I guess I'll have to buy it now.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 13:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Salt the Skies" may be the best track on It's All Around You. I definitely thought so the first few times I heard the album -- but now I'm not so sure, since others have grown on me. It's a pleasant album, but I can't get excited about it the way I got excited about Millions and TNT.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

hmmm, maybe I should just see if there's a single.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I still like the album...actually it's hard for me to think of individual songs on Tortoise albums, if I'm in the mood to listen to them I usually end up listening to the whole thing.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

monumental DUD. bored out of my skull listening to Tortoise-- and I like Stars of the Lid, Labradford, and Windy and Carl!

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

King Kobra is secretly me!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I hear a lot of late Zappa (like There's a Ship Arriving Too Late. . .) in the post-rock I've heard (mostly five second samples, but still), when it isn't overtly Krautish. Even that whole marimba + funny time signature thing. Maybe math rock more than post-rock. (No post-rock until after you've finished you're math-rock!) Eisbar?

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

And that's what I wanted to say.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think these guys are all listening to Zappa, Ralph Lundsten, and Mars Everywhere, aside from the obvious Neu and Harmonia and Cluster and various German law firms.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

new tour! i wonder if they are still writing new songs. i didn't care much for IAAY but i love the rest of their discography. still, i'm curious to see where they go. not really feeling the supporting acts... they always seem to tour with such mediocre artists.

Dates:

06-14 Columbus, OH - Wexner Center
06-15 Manchester, TN - Bonnaroo
06-16 Lawrence, KS - Granada Theatre *
06-18 Denver, CO - Bluebird Theatre
06-20 Phoenix, AZ - Rhythm Room
06-22 San Francisco, CA - Independent
06-23 San Francisco, CA - Independent
06-26 Seattle, WA - Neumos
07-01 Chicago, IL - Metro
07-03 Toronto, Ontario - Lee's Palace
07-05 Boston, MA - Museum of Fine Art
07-08 New York, NY - Webster Hall #

* with Hot Chip
# with Kieren Hebden, Steve Reid

― lfam, Thursday, 22 February 2007 19:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

it would be cool if they toured with some other chicago jazz types.

― lfam, Thursday, 22 February 2007 19:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

mcentire, herndon, and bitney have a new side project:

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/42309-tortoises-mcentire-herndon-bitney-team-up-for-ibumpsi

― lfam, Monday, 16 April 2007 12:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

sounds like it could be good; I'm always up for percussion records, and I actually just dusted off my copy of TNT last night for the first time in a while (it was decidedly not boring).

― bernard snowy, Monday, 16 April 2007 13:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

Ooh.

― Jordan, Monday, 16 April 2007 14:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

I like Bumps more than I thought I would! It's fun to hear the whole frequency range is given over to the drums, like wide-screen breaks. I wish it came with some notes about how they got some of those sick drum sounds (or maybe it does, it's not like I have the cd).

― Jordan, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 20:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

'millions now living...' is about as interesting and compelling as the genre gets. one of my favourite records of all time. well, top 30.

'tnt' is nice, but a little jammy and unfocused for my liking

'it's all around you' is one of those records that has really obvious merits, but not a gread deal of replay value i feel

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 13 March 2008 06:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

TNT trumps all.

― baaderonixx, Thursday, 13 March 2008 10:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'd really like another album from these guys

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 13:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Theyve paved the way (along with Godspeed!) for the countless instrumental bands out now. Yay!(?)

― U-Haul, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah, can't really thank them very enthusiastically for that. Although I do like some of the projects they were linked to (Brokeback at times, Isotope 217, Town and Country, etc.)

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah. Fuck The Shadows. And Booker T & The MGs. And jazz. And Beethoven.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

<i>Fuck the Shadows</i> sounds like an emo band.

― Raw Patrick, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

Fuck the BB Code

― Raw Patrick, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

These guys lost it when they got that gtr guy in.

― Raw Patrick, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

the fact that there's so much of this instrumental stuff out there now gives me a good basis of comparison to determine that tortoise is up there as one of the best of the genre. instrumental, post-rock stuff frequently bores me these days, but it's nice to have a few favourites.

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

aren't they supposed to have a new one this year?

― Jordan, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah. Fuck The Shadows. And Booker T & The MGs. And jazz. And Beethoven.

-- Scik Mouthy, Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:34 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Look, captain obvious, I listen to more instrumental music than non. I was just bemoaning the proliferation of b-level postrock bands.

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

they could have been giants

― CaptainLorax, Friday, 14 March 2008 04:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

These guys lost it when they got that gtr guy in.

-- Raw Patrick,

do you mean jeff parker? his solo album 'the relatives' was pretty neat. more of a straight up jazz (rock) vibe.

― sam500, Friday, 14 March 2008 04:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah that guy. I've heard him play good on other records but he changed Tortoise in a way I didn't want.

― Raw Patrick, Friday, 14 March 2008 09:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

DUD. boring band. nothing interesting happening at all. Except for Djed, which is kinda great

― rizzx, Friday, 14 March 2008 09:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

djed=one of the most interesting compositions of the 20th century

all these layers of in different directions moving sounds
a mazing, i'm sorry, if you can't hear this ...
well, listen again & again & try to listen more closely

forget about the post-rock term & all of its preassumptions
around it, ... it's just about the music, which is rather ingenious
you'll hear . . .

― spacialeinteragerendesubdominantie, Saturday, 6 December 2008 04:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Either an hilarious drive-by Googler or Louis was working the bong last night.

― Me and Ruth Lorenzo, Rollin' in the Benzo (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 6 December 2008 12:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

hey someone has got directions's directions in music for me ?
can't find it on soulseeX ...

man, i think i must at least saw them like a ten-times . . . every time
they blew me & the public away . . .

oh & the term= vibraphone,
you know xylos = greek for wood (last time i tell this on the net :-) )
marimba = also on wood but has some more octaves in the down regions ...

u might have seen them perform latest times around,
with a mighty marimba lumina from buchla !
google for it & be amazed : )

― spacialeinteragerendesubdominantie, Saturday, 6 December 2008 19:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think u could call me
pro tortoise !

― spacialeinteragerendesubdominantie, Saturday, 6 December 2008 19:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

Information No results found for "mighty marimba lumina from buchla".
:(

― mizzell, Saturday, 6 December 2008 20:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

buchla, the old analog vintage synthesizers branche

marimba lumina

― spacialeinteragerendesubdominantie, Saturday, 6 December 2008 21:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

What the fuck...

― ilxor, Sunday, 7 December 2008 01:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I listened to samples back when they were topping the Wire Magazine's year end lists. I've got the albums now, and they're all fine, but underwhelming in the context of the rep they received. Many of the tracks slot in just fine with more active recent instrumental rock groups I occasionally use for ambience (An Album Leaf, Explosions in the Sky, Six Parts Seven, Tarentel, Tristeza).

The Tortoise edge over the latecomers (at least to my unpaid, unsullyed by context, and unimpressively educated ears) isn't really in the compositions, but in their wider instrumental palette.

― derelict, Sunday, 7 December 2008 04:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

i just picked up the ex/tortoise in the fishtank session on CD today...good stuff....i think both bands meet each other halfway pretty nicely

― M@tt He1ges0n, Sunday, 7 December 2008 04:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

'Millions....' and 'TNT' are fine albums, but to me they lost it after.

Are they still around?

― Fer Ark, Sunday, 7 December 2008 20:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

yep. i think they do pretty well in europe still.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Sunday, 7 December 2008 20:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

buchla: http://www.vimeo.com/902069

in europe I know a few people who like them enough to put on millions occasionally, but no one who would turn out for a show.

― caek, Sunday, 7 December 2008 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah a friend of mine is sorta friends one tortoise member and i guess they get paid some pretty big dough to go play like a jazz fests overseas sometimes. like basically dude doesn't have a day job.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Sunday, 7 December 2008 20:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

ive been playing Standards several times in the last couple days, and honestly I don't think it's dog poo. there are some great drum sounds on there and it's nice and accessible enough to play in the background but still worth the attention.

― sonderangerbot, Monday, 26 January 2009 17:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

I love Standards.

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Monday, 26 January 2009 17:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

standards is brilliant

― cutty, Monday, 26 January 2009 17:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Standards is my favorite Tortoise record, and the only one I've ever really loved. It has enough structure to keep it grounded, unlike "Djed" or something, which is interesting for about five minutes until my attention wanders.

― ilxor, Monday, 26 January 2009 18:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'm about ready for a new tortoise record. i ended up really like "it's all around you".

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 26 January 2009 18:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Their weakest album, but the material improved a hell of a lot played live.

― WmC, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's prettier and more memorable than standards, i think. the best tracks from standards and iaay would make a pretty sick record.

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 26 January 2009 19:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

unlike "Djed" or something, which is interesting for about five minutes until my attention wanders.

b-b-but "Djed" totally changes every few minutes! you should be the ideal audience!

― nabisco, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

be happy, rejoice: NEW TORTOISE IN APRIL.

gotta say i hate hate HATED "it's all around you." it's the only one of their albums i sold back to a store. it's like their version of that one Sonic Youth album, the one with "small flowers crack concrete" - just indefensibly weak.

― Beatrix Kiddo, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

P.S. It's funny how I'm all surprised upthread that people would hate on Tortoise during the circa-2000 push back against post-rocky stuff -- now that that stuff doesn't feel at issue anymore, it's genuinely hard to imagine many people caring to hate them.

― nabisco, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/new-tortoise-album-coming-in-april-1003932126.story

― Beatrix Kiddo, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

the title track from "it's all around you" is great.

is the will oldham covers album worth hearing?

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 26 January 2009 19:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

YES!

― Beatrix Kiddo, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.staticmultimedia.com/music/reviews/review_1141521087

― Beatrix Kiddo, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

during the circa-2000 push back against post-rocky stuff

i blame the strokes

― cutty, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

If you take Wicker Park to be post-rock central, it was actually De Stijl that seemed to do something -- there was a season where that seemed to be playing constantly in every cafe and bar, and I definitely assumed it was as a reaction to what had been going on in the area, stuff that made the idea of the Stripes strike people as refreshing.

― nabisco, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

I saw somewhere that one of the guys from Tortoise said the new album is close, sonically, to Standards.

― scott pgwp (pgwp), Monday, 26 January 2009 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

well if they claim it is synth heavy then that makes sense

― cutty, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

is the will oldham covers album worth hearing?

My favorite thing by either of them. I don't have much use for Oldham, but he is incredible on almost all of these tracks.

― ilxor, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp i'm looking much forward to that one. may I add the final track on "It's all around you" is also an excellent, swedish prog noodle closer.

― sonderangerbot, Monday, 26 January 2009 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Any of you guys heard the old synthpunk band The Units?? Check out this track 'Tight Fit' from their 1980 LP and tell me it doesn't sound like a Tortoise jam.

― '92 ron fan (gnarly sceptre), Monday, 26 January 2009 20:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

coincidence? I've been playing Standards as of late also.
also, It's All Around You is pretty good.. it just has more of an disciplined loungey atmosphere which is why I think some people don't like it as much. They don't want disciplined... They don't want loungey...

― CaptainLorax, Monday, 26 January 2009 22:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

Do I remember right that Standards was the first one they recorded fully digitally? I do feel like it has a "colder" sound than the other ones, but I think the coldness serves it well.

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Monday, 26 January 2009 23:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Stretch (You Are Alright) is a great track off It's All Around You.

HORSE HAM:

Looking forward to the new one.

― Wax Cat, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 00:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Salt The Skies

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 00:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

one of the best live bands in the world

― cutty, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 00:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Total drummer's band too, ha.

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

There career arc mirrors stereolab quite a bit imo (though not as prolific)...

fresh, creative singles
a couple solid albums
some insane remixes
lineup tweakage
widely unpopular shift of direction

― (*ﾟーﾟ)θ L(。･＿･)　　　°~ヾ(･ε･ *) (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

also wildly derivative as well...

― (*ﾟーﾟ)θ L(。･＿･)　　　°~ヾ(･ε･ *) (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

ie, their mutual ability to wear then-obscure influences on their sleeves.

― (*ﾟーﾟ)θ L(。･＿･)　　　°~ヾ(･ε･ *) (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

1996 NEVER FORGET

― cutty, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure TNT was recorded on a computer.

― Mark, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

"widely unpopular shift of direction" with original fans since Stereolab's widely unpopular shift resulted in them selling a lot more albums.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

what period of stereolab do you consider the john mcentire produced records?

― cutty, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

@shasta

― cutty, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 01:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'm sure it's a mix of analog and digital...soma has a ton of analog gear, no reason not to use it.

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

Thread inspired me to start a Tortoise Pandora station. It's amazing how many competent post-rock bands I have never heard of!

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

... such as:
Tommy Guerrero
Maserati
Benevenuto & Russo Duo
The Six Parts Seven

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

El Ten Eleven

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

I never posted on this Tortoise thread, but I did gush on how much I liked them on some of the others and the big 'post rock' thread that is around here somewhere. That being said, I STILL have not gotten around to hearing their last couple of releases. Really odd considering I probably listened to their first three albums constantly for years even to now.

I can kind of understand why people don't like Tortoise, but to me they were a group that kind of changed my musical outlook. They were just the right kind of band heading in a different direction at the right time that really appealed to me, so I say classic.

I've seen them live three times and thought they were always really good band to go and check out.

That being said, it probably time to check in.

― earlnash, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

dots&loops = shift... but yeah i can see where they shifted with mars, then the groop played, then emporer... but dots was the biggest departure... thematically, popularity, critically.

― (*ﾟーﾟ)θ L(。･＿･)　　　°~ヾ(･ε･ *) (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

but to me they were a group that kind of changed my musical outlook. They were just the right kind of band heading in a different direction at the right time that really appealed to me

Yeah, me too, actually. At the time my friends got me into Tortoise I was mainly listening to straight-ahead jazz, classical, some "classic rock" like Pink Floyd and Zeppelin, Fugazi, and old blues records. I think Tortoise and their Chicago counterparts (Isotope 217, Brokeback, Chicago Underground, Sea and Cake, etc.) got me to start thinking of music in a less compartmentalized way -- more of a sonic continuum.

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

what

― cutty, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

I was like 18 or 19 years old, granted. I remember reading the back of one of the Chicago Underground albums and there was this admittedly kind of pretentious text on the back about a more unified approach to music: "Start with SOUND!" etc. But at the time it was quite mind-expanding.

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 02:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

boring and masturbatory.

― Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 04:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

your opinions are, yes

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 January 2009 04:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

― earlnash ― try A Lazarus Taxon (3 cds) - so much new material (or maybe I should say rare) mixed with old classics

― CaptainLorax, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 05:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

For me, I was playing in bad bands in the midwest around that time going seeing many of those touch & go or related kind of groups. I had seen Johnny Machine play a couple of times with the Poster Children and when I first heard about Tortoise it sounded like a pretty weird idea for a side project. But about that same time I was starting to listen to Can and Kraftwerk and then heard the first stuff on Warp records and started listening to a bunch of jazz, so going from listening to Jesus Lizard or say Slint then Tortoise started to make sense to me with the other records I was starting to listen to. Criminy it was a band by people who were doing stuff that I kind of liked who started doing some newer music that fit in with new things I was finding. Omar and Dave Q also kind of hit it up at the top of the thread.

― earlnash, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 04:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

your opinions are, yes

well, when they weren't, people were deeply offended by my comments and i got banned for some time.

― Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 05:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

i like this new song
http://pitchfork.com/forkcast/12802-prepare-your-coffin/

― mizzell, Tuesday, 5 May 2009 13:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Pitchfork Festival appearance was dope.

Set list:

1. Seneca
2. Djed
3. Ten-Day Interval
4. Swung from the Gutters
5. Along the Banks of Rivers
6. TNT
7. The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls
8. Glass Museum

Was hoping for "I Set My Face to the Hillside," but oh well.

― jaymc, Saturday, 18 July 2009 14:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

Whatever people say about Standards, "Seneca" is awesome live. Good band, not great, but unfairly maligned.

― ears are wounds, Saturday, 18 July 2009 14:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

but to me they were a group that kind of changed my musical outlook. They were just the right kind of band heading in a different direction at the right time that really appealed to me
Yeah, me too, actually. At the time my friends got me into Tortoise I was mainly listening to straight-ahead jazz, classical, some "classic rock" like Pink Floyd and Zeppelin, Fugazi, and old blues records. I think Tortoise and their Chicago counterparts (Isotope 217, Brokeback, Chicago Underground, Sea and Cake, etc.) got me to start thinking of music in a less compartmentalized way -- more of a sonic continuum.
― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:45 AM (5 months ago)

Yeah, they're a reasonable gateway band into a lot of better music, for younger listeners. And my impression is they'd be happy with that--as maligned as they are for being a pastiche-of-all-things-old-and-hip, I think it's evident they're sincerely in love with music, and probably don't think they're doing something revolutionary (unlike the impression I got from hearing/reading quotes from far worse "post-rock" bands who seemed never to have heard a fucking Can or Reich or Morricone record and thought they were inventing some new dramatic language). They surely aren't ashamed of their influences.

― Soundslike, Saturday, 18 July 2009 16:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

(or at least they pretended never to have heard any "experimental" music. It's possible, as Mogwai and GSYBE and Sigur Ros and all those Constellation bands seemed to take their sense of dynamics from Smashing Pumpkins or U2 more than anything else.)

― Soundslike, Saturday, 18 July 2009 16:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

I saw Tortoise live in LA last week. They were good, absolutely. Still, when they brought out "Djed" for the encore... man, that song is still so electrifying and exciting. It accidentally made the entire rest of the show feel lazy. Like, "Oh, you can be this good? Oh." I just don't get the sense that these guys are pushing themselves as hard as they once did.

― scott pgwp (pgwp), Saturday, 18 July 2009 19:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

saw these guys recently, sadly they didn't play Djed. they did Seneca though and a lot of older material. i agree with pgwp above, however tight and great it was, they didn't even break a sweat. i can appreciate the art in sounding like a cd on stage, but it would be cool to see them put a little more at risk.

...and oh yeah to my big surprise i saw at least half a dozen trucker hats in the audience

― sonderangerbot, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

Off to see these guys tonight as part of the Melb Jazz Festival. The new album is so not-typical of them (and much less jazzy than their older work) that I'm wondering what material they'll be playing!

As long as there is a load of duelling glocks I'll be happy.

― Eyjafjallalalalalatrolololol (Trayce), Friday, 7 May 2010 04:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

or vibraphones, or whatever they are.

― Eyjafjallalalalalatrolololol (Trayce), Friday, 7 May 2010 04:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

Have fun :)

― CaptainLorax, Friday, 7 May 2010 04:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Its in the best venue in melb too. Gorgeous old deco theatre. Totally stoked!

― Eyjafjallalalalalatrolololol (Trayce), Friday, 7 May 2010 04:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

i'm listening to the 6th song on the directions in music album... wow.
anyone listened to this lately? i think it's aged much better than the tortoise stuff.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, September 18, 2003 2:30 AM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i still love this album, been listening to it a lot recently.

― mizzell, Friday, 22 October 2010 15:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

psyched for this Tortoise show in Minneapolis at the Walker Art Center on Friday!

http://www.walkerart.org/calendar/2012/tortoise-minneapolis-jazz-all-stars

Part of 2011-2012 Performing Arts Season

“Tortoise is one of the rare groups that defy easy classification despite their status as founding fathers of the late-’90s post-rock boom.” —Paste Magazine

Chicago’s indie legend returns to the Walker and joins some of the Twin Cities’ most influential jazz and rock innovators for an exploratory collaboration in sound and form. Unique in the world of contemporary music, Tortoise is known for its boundless intellectual curiosity and unmistakable instrumental collage of jazz, rock, electronica, dub, dance, ambient, and minimalism.
This 612-meets-312 experiment features gifted players, new ideas, and a remarkable shared musical vision. One show only: Dan Bitney, John Herndon, Douglas McCombs, John McEntire, and Jeff Parker—along with Minneapolis’ Douglas Ewart, Mike Lewis, Greg Lewis, JT Bates, and Michele Kinney—are featured in this singular performance.
The performance will be broadcast live by KFAI “Radio Without Boundaries” (90.3/106.7 FM).

^^the minneapolis dudes are all super awesome jazz guys, drummer JT Bates is just amazing:

― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 18:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

* sets Audio Hijack to catch this *

― improvised explosive advice (WmC), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 18:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

seeing them tomorrow night! sans mike lewis et al, unfort.

― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 19:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

saw them this past Saturday, it was wicked good.

― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 19:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

The performance will be broadcast live by KFAI “Radio Without Boundaries” (90.3/106.7 FM).

This is starting now, kfai.org

― improvised explosive advice (WmC), Saturday, 5 May 2012 01:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

this was one of the best shows i've seen in forever!

― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

how did it go down? mpls jazz dudes improvising on top of tortoise tunes, or?

― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah it was definitely a collaboration to the fullest...could have easily been billed as Mpls Jazz All Stars feat Tortoise

two drummers - dan bitney & jt bates

stage right was the jazz all star stage left was tortoise - mccoombs/parker on bass/guitar, herdon & mcentire on various keyboards/electronics/laptops

i didn't really recognize proper tortoise songs per se, they seemed to work off a main riff or theme and kind of all go off from there....i think i recognized some riffs from tortoise songs here and there (LOL i also realize how much i don't know ANY tortoise song titles except for djed)....then they did a encore of "galapagos" which mccoombs said that the jazz guys didn't know and they hadn't practiced but it went off well..

mike & greg lewis were both great....never seen ewart and goddam he was the fucking BOMB, also dressed so fucking "jazz guy" - flowing african v-neck style kinda tie-dyed looking shirt, beret, and neat beard, so cool....but yeah he's a great player

surprise was michele kinney who i wasn't familiar with but she was great...

jordan - does your ILM mail work? I have a link that, shall we say, might be of interest :)

― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

it does!

― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

cool, sent! let me know what you think, but it's sounding just a good in the harsh light of monday morning

― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

thanks man! can't download at work but i'll check it out tonight, looking forward to it.

― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

wow could I also have that link?

― Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

One of my issues with Tortoise has been that for all their individual talents, they don't really improvise live. So it's exciting to hear they're at least trying to push themselves a little, belatedly.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 7 May 2012 16:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i really enjoyed seeing them last week but it seemed, i don't know, a little rote. they covered all the parts but i was hoping that they'd let jeff parker off the leash a little or get into more double-drummer fire.

― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Monday, 7 May 2012 16:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

just about ten minutes in, but yeah sounding great! thanks m@tt

― tylerw, Monday, 7 May 2012 16:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

hurting - check you ILX mail :)

josh you want the link?

― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'd be happy to take a link!

― sonderangerbot, Monday, 7 May 2012 17:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

some photos here

http://www.reviler.org/2012/05/07/photos-tortoise-minneapolis-jazz-all-stars-at-walker-art-center/

― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

nice. looks like herndon on drums btw.

― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

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