I don't really believe in "mainstream America" anyway. I don't think there's such a thing.
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Sunday, 27 February 2000 02:41 (twenty-four years ago) link
― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:53 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:54 (twenty years ago) link
I do think the earlier thread on the Ratt/Ramones deaths brought out some suprising defensiveness in the responses. I'm not sure why people saw his fixation on Ratt's "popularity" as such a weak point. I think his arguement is that, on the surface, it might seem strange that Dee Dee's death got "more attention", since Ratt had more mainstream exposure; and that it's the weight given to an artist by the critical apparatus that ultimately trumps the importance of mere sales / airplay numbers. I don't think he's proposing that the situation is unjust because Ratt were truly somehow "better", just that the critics' history-making tends to obscure significant (by some measure) bands or artists that aren't judged significant (by a select set of other measures). This is not a particulary insightful observation, nor is the situation it describes limited to music-crit, but I do think it holds some water.
That said, one not particularly insightful observation such as this is not enough to hold up an entire book, much less an entire approach to music criticism (although to be fair, I haven't read much else of Klosterman's writing).
And so: neither classic nor dud, but his writing works a lot better when he's just talking about himself, and acknowleging all his biases and emotional attachments, rather than letting these create a righteous-contrarain critical voice that approaches dud.
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Monday, 7 April 2003 16:05 (twenty years ago) link
Hadn't met him or read him before that, but I loved his rock lists in the recent Spin. That shit is so much harder than it looks. Classic so far...
― Pete Scholtes, Monday, 7 April 2003 18:52 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link
But what is the measure if not supreme personal concern or interest? In which case the popularity card is a red herring on his part. Personally I think James Blount's take says it all, and explains why he's so frustrating in the end.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:33 (twenty years ago) link
He's like Bangs without the talent, or the heart, or the ideas, or the balls, or the curiosity, or the drugs. He might have the gut though, not sure (willing to bet though). Probably a similar wardrobe.
― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:39 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:45 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:46 (twenty years ago) link
http://velvetrope.starpolish.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=249342&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:46 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:12 (twenty years ago) link
I've actually been buying SPINs a lot lately, even though its been six months or so since my subscription ran out. The last one was REALLY disappointing. The Dischord article was haphazard, the Linkin Park piece blatantly unenthusiastic (understandably but still disappointing), and the Good Charlotte piece, despite being on the cover, was only half a page (for relationship advice, reaffirming Joel is the nice one). Plus the review are pretty bland.
I thought the lists issue was pretty funny though. Cute song quotes.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:14 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:31 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 00:32 (twenty years ago) link
Agreed that the Spin list issue was terrible. It looked like something you'd find in some one-off 'zine stacked in some forgotten bar alcove.
Ira Robbins and Chuck Klosterman see the world differently, no news there.
― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 00:50 (twenty years ago) link
nf
― notfazed (notfazed), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 01:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 01:54 (twenty years ago) link
1. anybody else wish SPIN reviewed more records? their section (and RS's, admittedly) gets punier and punier. and don't try to sell me on that "more records, more opinions, let's do this" thing.
2. anybody wish more than 15 people - with some writing 2-3 reviews per issue - were writing the reviews?
― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:02 (twenty years ago) link
Of course he's motivated by his personal concern AND interest--is that so awful? I'd say yes, when he tries to pretend that's not what's motivating his writing--but when he occasionaly owns up to it I think it's hardly a problem. I'd argue that many people want their critics to be motivated by their particular emotional attachments; part of the fun of reading them is getting a glimpse of someone's possibly irrational passion for something that you don't feel so strongly about yourself. This is not to bolster up Klosterman's writing, cause I think it's got plenty of problems, as described throughout this thread. And so yeah, his playing of the popularity card is a problem cause it's disingenuous, but the personal motivation that he's trying to cover up doesn't seem as bad as the effort to obscure it.
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:13 (twenty years ago) link
Certainly not! I think we're agreeing here. I have no problem with him talking about what he loves, but as you say, trying to justify something on the basis of its former popularity evades the issue.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:21 (twenty years ago) link
"The Guns 'N' Roses it's OK to like"
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:31 (twenty years ago) link
I think people here will likely have a bit of the Narcissism of Small Differences thing going on with this book -- the subject matter is so exactly the sort of thing covered here, and the approach to working through it is very similar, that the immediate response is to recoil when he gets this or that bit of it horribly wrong. (There's an unfortunate comment about Dexy's that would make some people's heads explode. And he has absolutely no clue what he's even saying about soccer.)
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:06 (twenty years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:09 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:20 (twenty years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:21 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:21 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:25 (twenty years ago) link
So, even though he is defensive about 80s hair metal, and twists himself into a pretzel trying to defend its sexism and so on, there's almost a hollowness in the middle of his argument. I mean, I wish he'd simply take the idea that Theatre of Pain IS better than Tapestry, run with it, and see where that leads him.
― Wired Flounder (Wired Flounder), Monday, 19 May 2003 16:50 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 20 May 2003 12:13 (twenty years ago) link
however I agree it's not always fun to hear people try to tease out and pontificate on those reasons.
and agreed that the retroactivity of it all often feels like a dud.
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Tuesday, 20 May 2003 12:32 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:23 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:31 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:38 (twenty years ago) link
?!?!??!?!? can we have a definition of avant-garde plz?
this is horrible. what an embarrassment for a paper that i thought had been all embarrassed out for years now. insult to injury -> this'll fuel chuck k's underdog complex even more!
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:57 (twenty years ago) link
(my guess is k's schtick reminds him of his own, but he's languishing in the ussr writing for an awful paper while chuck gets big. i'm embarassed for him)
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:01 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:03 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:06 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:11 (twenty years ago) link
It's like barely disguised aching homoeroticism or something.
― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:28 (twenty years ago) link
the press rarely writes about music (or any other subject); instead, it writes about what other writers are saying about music. and it always claims, of course, that they are wrong. it's as if the paper is staffed by a roomful of people who don't go to movies, don't listen to records, don't go outdoors, and probably don't socialize with other humans. they just read about all that stuff in other newspapers and magazines.
the thing that's amazing to me is that in spite of all that, they've managed to publish a number of really good writers over the years, including another guy named ames (jonathan) who i hope is no relation to this one.
― fact checking cuz, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:53 (twenty years ago) link
I feel another sarcastic tee-hee attack coming on.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:59 (twenty years ago) link
http://exile.ru/167/167122301.html
― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 21:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link
Chuck Klosterman doesn't sound like a lot of fun either. I'm really turning into a terrible reactionary I suppose but this kinda pop-culture riff essay style just.. doesn't make me feel like I've gained anything at all from having read it.
Oh, speaking of reviews - the Metafilter entry that linked to the Klosterman piece also linked to an extremely harsh yet hilarious review of a Chuck Palahniuk book in Salon - now THAT is worth reading. (the review I mean, obv.)
― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 28 August 2003 00:41 (twenty years ago) link
Probably also I do this sort of thing myself, and it seem there's a pretty strong element of defensiveness in his stance; criticism is instantaneously diverted because he already KNOWS it's "low culture."
― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 28 August 2003 00:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Thursday, 28 August 2003 00:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 28 August 2003 02:11 (twenty years ago) link
That said, Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs isn't very good. Nor has been Klosterman's columns in SPIN.
But he's still a good writer. I was re-reading those comments by Ira Robbins...damn, that was scathing. And rather pious, I might add. Kind of depressing, really.
― don weiner, Thursday, 28 August 2003 02:38 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 28 August 2003 08:37 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 28 August 2003 08:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 28 August 2003 10:53 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 28 August 2003 11:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 28 August 2003 11:28 (twenty years ago) link
― maura (maura), Thursday, 28 August 2003 16:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 16:54 (twenty years ago) link
I liked Fargo Rock City, though really wasn't that impressed by the writing all that much.
But you have a point maura: the explosion of the WWW (and more pointedly, blog culture/bulletin boards like this one) has made the writing voice of guys like Klosterman seem very tedious and commonplace. Or at the very least, hardly clever or unique. I'd even argue it makes Lester Bang's talent much less apparent. In fact, the new Bangs book, like the Marcus comp before it, seems completely unenlightening.
― don weiner, Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
(I would also argue that ILX irritates me in the exact same way that Klosterman does when it's mired in its semi-perpetual argument for the sake of argument nadirs.)
― maura (maura), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:18 (twenty years ago) link
― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:18 (twenty years ago) link
You elitist, Maura! ;-) The Coulter comparison is harsh but you know, the more Klosterman continues the more it starts to make a certain sense...
(My view on Klosterman, ie rather overrated (Robert Plant inadvertantly but perfectly cutting him down directly is still a thing of joy), remains the same; my view on Ames is that he's useless.)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 17:29 (twenty years ago) link
― don weiner, Thursday, 28 August 2003 18:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link
He does say some less-than-informed things to Liz Phair and Robert Plant in his interviews with them, but by being blunt and risking offense with them he gets some of the better quotes I've heard from those artists. His willingness to hear out opposite arguments in those cases is one major reason the comparison to Ann Coulter bothers me.
His reviews in SPIN seem lacking to me, he can be hit-or-miss and it's possible that just like with his hero Axl Rose fame will not benefit Klosterman's work, but his openness, humor and insights make him one of the more interesting and exciting writers out there. But as Nabisco noted earlier, I share similarities in taste and style.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 28 August 2003 22:44 (twenty years ago) link
He does make a ton of good points about CK being useless, though he himself is as well. Screw 'em both.
― ham on rye (ham on rye), Sunday, 31 August 2003 02:24 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Sunday, 31 August 2003 03:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Sunday, 31 August 2003 03:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Clarke B., Sunday, 31 August 2003 20:17 (twenty years ago) link
What exactly was "weird" or "assholish" or "speaking for womankind" about his reaction?? (Or "stupid," as that Ames retard said?) It was actually one of the smartest excerpts Ames quoted, seems to me.
― chuck, Sunday, 31 August 2003 20:35 (twenty years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 1 September 2003 00:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Clarke B., Monday, 1 September 2003 04:04 (twenty years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:42 (twenty years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:43 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 07:18 (twenty years ago) link
Lester Bangs? Maybe not. But I'll take him.
― Chandler, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Thursday, 11 March 2004 02:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 March 2004 03:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 March 2004 03:02 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 11 March 2004 03:23 (twenty years ago) link
!
Uh, I'm with Mike on this one. But Stence, can you let me know how ya know?
Perhaps tellingly, today I was listening to Rush.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 03:30 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Thursday, 11 March 2004 03:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 04:01 (twenty years ago) link
― andrew s (andrew s), Thursday, 11 March 2004 04:06 (twenty years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 March 2004 04:09 (twenty years ago) link
― lovebug starski, Thursday, 11 March 2004 11:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 March 2004 12:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 13:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 March 2004 14:49 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 11 March 2004 14:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 15:29 (twenty years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 March 2004 16:34 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:12 (twenty years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago) link
If you disagree with Atlas Shrugged, it basically means you disagree with the concept of “being great.”
what a douchebag.
― hstencil, Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:33 (twenty years ago) link
The Franzen reference is worse, though, because I think about how someone coming up to be saying something similarly negative about Loveless would just get a 'hey, that's fine' statement from me. Is my love for that album not justified in his eyes because I don't see fit to go into that ridiculous kind of defense he demands for his love objects? Fuck it.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:43 (twenty years ago) link
Animal Farm by George Orwell (Signet, $8). No one has ever written something so brilliant, so concise, so insightful, and so charming all at the same time.
― hstencil, Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:52 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 11 March 2004 18:02 (twenty years ago) link
"Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs" really feels like the thoughts of a guy who's spent a lot of time at the end of a couch watching too much tv, listening to the "cool rock" (and everything else) on the radio, and arguing with his roommate about ridiculous subjects that have no bearing on reality.
With that mindset, you end up ascribing a lot of personal importance to whatever's going on at the time, but you quickly end up realizing that it's going to be replaced by something else in short order. There's not really a strong sense of foundation or history, more about the here and now. Klosterman's sitting downstream from the guys who are idolizing the influential "greats" that stand the test of time, so he only ends up with the end product.
I'd imagine his writing has changed over the last few years, but that's my impression. Even the Rand thing fits in -- huge, romantic notions of greatness, without the thought that someone's probably already done all this and thought it through. It's all about the spectacle and the emotion.
― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 13 August 2004 15:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Friday, 13 August 2004 16:15 (nineteen years ago) link
Its ironic, yes?
I enjoyed SD&CCP overall, the Ayn Rand thing makes sense but that's part of his sort of juvenile appeal I suppose. I think ppl in this thread are really making a bigger deal out of him than need be, as if he's TRYING to change the world or something. His self-deprecation is appreciated, he's wrong a lot but whatever. Its an enjoyable read, trashy and entertaining.
― djdee2005, Saturday, 14 August 2004 05:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005, Saturday, 14 August 2004 05:06 (nineteen years ago) link
He managed to articulate my own fascination with "Saved By the Bell" very precisely. However I would say the worst essay in the collection is the piece toward the end about how Vanilla Sky is actually a "good" movie because well... actually it's not and in discussing cinematic discourse on the nature of reality Klosterman gets way off point. He doesn't seem to have a point in the essay other than not exactly sure why everyone hated the movie but him. If anyone else has read it, then they might possibly concur with me that Klosterman's enjoyment of the film is completely predicated on his own stated attraction to actress Penelope Cruz.
― herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Saturday, 14 August 2004 05:32 (nineteen years ago) link
Still, it's a shitty movie.
― djdee2005, Saturday, 14 August 2004 05:34 (nineteen years ago) link
Myself, I'd go for Diaz since she's livelier and exhibits far more 3 dimensional sexiness in personality than Cruz does in her wooden performance. Though, in her defense, Cruz doesn't really speak english and her getting cast in Hollywood films has more to do with the spread in maxim than because of her good performances in spanish-language films. Regardless of the geeky debate I'd like to have with Klosterman on the subject of diaz vs. cruz and their respective on screen hotness...it's a shitty movie.
― herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Saturday, 14 August 2004 05:50 (nineteen years ago) link
I haven't read "Fargo Rock City," which is what made his name, but I can appreciate that he gave voice to some kind of Midwestern its-only-rocknroll-buddilikeit populism. Fine. But the things of his I have read, magazine pieces here and there, just aren't interesting. That's his biggest problem. He introduces no new ideas, he traffics in watery received wisdom, and there's a prickly defensiveness underneath the golly-gee regular guyisms that makes him less likable than he thinks he is. I guess he shouldn't annoy me so much -- who really cares, right? More power to him for making a living at it.
Except that I can't help seeing some connection between his bogus, resentful anti-"elitism" and the bogus, resentful anti-"elitism" peddled by the Bush administration. Both seem calculated to appeal to people who want to be assured that it's OK not to know very much about anything, and to cast aspersions on knowledge itself. Which is maybe a heavy seabird to hang around the neck of Chuck fucking Klosterman, who's probably a Kerry Democrat for all I know and is certainly whole solar systems of magnitudes of malignance removed from Dick Cheney. But still, he annoys me.
― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 14 August 2004 05:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Saturday, 14 August 2004 06:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 14 August 2004 06:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 14 August 2004 16:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 14 August 2004 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link
(This is the same sort of quick claim that either would debate endlessly, too.)
― mike h. (mike h.), Saturday, 14 August 2004 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 August 2004 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/faceoff/040817/part1
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 15:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 16:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 17:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― don carville weiner, Tuesday, 17 August 2004 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link
http://espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/simmons_klosterman_white.jpg
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 18:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link
I bought it after reading an excerpt on The Real World that I loved, but in this thread a lot of people who's opinions I trust are really going to town with the Klosterman hate and I'm wondering if I shouldn't even waste my time with it.
Though this line of thinking:
I suppose my problem is that not only can't I understand why anyone would waste their time watching Saved by the Bell, I feel a degree of contempt for the way it seems Klosterman is determined to make this into a badge of honor. Probably also I do this sort of thing myself, and it seem there's a pretty strong element of defensiveness in his stance; criticism is instantaneously diverted because he already KNOWS it's "low culture."
-- daria g (daria_gra...), August 28th, 2003.
does not appeal to me at all.
― David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 10 July 2005 15:17 (eighteen years ago) link
How large is your car?
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 10 July 2005 15:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 10 July 2005 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Sunday, 10 July 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Sunday, 10 July 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link
-- latebloomer (posercore24...), March 11th, 2004.
I STAND BY THAT STATEMENT.
― latebloomer: the Clonus Horror (latebloomer), Sunday, 10 July 2005 16:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― latebloomer: the Clonus Horror (latebloomer), Sunday, 10 July 2005 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 10 July 2005 20:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 10 July 2005 20:31 (eighteen years ago) link
I read a chapter or so of his new book at the bookstore, I think it's a lot better than his previous efforts. Other than that, I stand by about everything I've said.
― mike h. (mike h.), Sunday, 10 July 2005 21:08 (eighteen years ago) link
i'll readily (and i'm sure he will too) admit he's no master writer, and i think that's 1/2 his appeal is to say up front- i'm not very good at this, but i'll try. and it works, for the most part.
i don't get all 'teh h@t3' on him...
now, if someone can tell me where Mark Leyner is, i'd be much appreciative.
― eedd, Sunday, 10 July 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link
yikes! you really think so? or that he thinks this? i never got that from him. i only read his esquire column (or is it gq?), but i never got that vibe. he knows how to write for one thing. he has journalistic skills up the wazoo. i actually liked his val kilmer piece in the last gq (or was it esquire?) i could never write that kinda thing in a million years.
― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 10 July 2005 21:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 10 July 2005 21:22 (eighteen years ago) link
i think he CAN write but, like scott said, gets bogged down in the 'insights' category. but, said 'insights' can be pretty funny, too!
i guess my thing is i don't get why so many dislike him SO much.hell, i'm shocked that this many people even cared he writes!
boy, that eggers boy can write!!
― eedd, Sunday, 10 July 2005 21:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 19:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― hank (hank s), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 19:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― timmy tannin (pompous), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 19:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― hank (hank s), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 20:17 (seventeen years ago) link
i rest my case against both klosterman and kid a. (i'll let espn classic slide.)
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 20:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sundar (sundar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link
It's just that he's gotten there by -- at first -- playing a sort of critic, the culture critic for people who aren't super-engaged with culture or criticism. (That is populist, I guess; it's how Roepers are born.) And he has a lock on a core audience, and a lucrative one -- guys who read Maxim at their friends' houses but Details at home, these sort of regular-guy young professionals who watch sports and enjoy New Pornographers and are shopping for good plasma-screen TVs because they're buying condos with their girlfriends, and they play video games and genuinely like to think about stuff (just not all the time) and spend lots of time on Metacritic and ESPN.com and buy lots and lots of DVDs and liked The Matrix because of its "interesting philosophical underpinnings." The more highbrow among them will see Klosterman as a regular dude, like them; the less highbrow among them will see him as a kind of intellectual type, but palatable and down to earth about it.
And he serves that audience decently -- his big forte isn't being "clever" so much as being conversational and engaging and digestible. (He's also really good at magazine features, just in terms of craft -- entertaining, readable, vivid, etc.) But of course this means that those of us who pay attention to culture in what we think of as "serious" ways will have to be slightly offended by him, this guy who's taking fairly uninteresting culture-views and packaging them for people who aren't necessarily in our circle. It's hard to complain, though, especially as he travels away from being seen as any sort of "critic" and becomes basically just a columnist, which is the honest vision of what he's up to.
Seriously, though: the Roeper of ten years from now, basically.
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:31 (seventeen years ago) link
that's the most sympathetic take on him that i can basically agree with. sometimes i feel bad for how much he irritates me because i sort of think he's probably not a bad guy. and you're right about his audience -- which is still a niche audience, but it's a lot bigger niche than someone like, say, kogan or your-favorite-critic-here appeals to. i have met klosterman fans, the kind of people who would stand in line for 40 minutes at a booksigning for him, and they're totally fine. i tell them i can't stand klosterman and they just kind of laugh, they don't get mad about it or anything. which just makes me feel worse for badmouthing him.
as a member of his generation, though, i would like to file a complaint with cnn.
xpost: his 'snakes on a plane' column made him sound like the andy rooney of this year.
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:37 (seventeen years ago) link
"The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records. They haven't seen the films that are supposed to be important."
Or perhaps the problem is that Klosterman, a man who claims to be a writer about culture, has obviously never actually read the New Yorker or listened to NPR?
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link
The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records.The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records.The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records.The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records.The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records.The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records.The problem is that a lot of the subjects those publications cover, a lot of society has no relationship to. They've never listened to Yo La Tengo records.
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sundar (sundar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sundar (sundar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link
"He's a small white man in a world of tall black men. He has no choice but to run around in circles trying to not get pounded. That's the only way he can possibly survive out there. He represents white, middle-class America being introduced to the dangers of the ghetto kids; you have no other choice but to run away from them. Now don't even get me started on why Ichiro represents the overachieving Asian kid in math class!"
― Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― darin (darin), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link
this paragraph is fucking gross.
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link
isn't this basically Chuck Eddy's schtick? To engage middle-American culture head-on and take it seriously (no matter how fucking trite or offensive or downright bad it is?)
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:08 (seventeen years ago) link
Re SBTB: I didn't even think the cast was attractive! And I was 14!
xpost
― Sundar (sundar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link
Dude, Kelly was hot and I copped my first drum beat from A.C. Slater.
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:14 (seventeen years ago) link
and yeah, chuck k's shtick is related to chuck e's (and chuck e has expressed some appreciation of chuck k), but chuck k's is sort of a cheap knock-off. chuck e has actually gone to the trouble of thinking about stuff, while chuck k mostly goes to the trouble of appearing to think about stuff -- which is enough to impress cnn.
(xposts)
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Zwan (miccio), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sundar (sundar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:35 (seventeen years ago) link
To me, Chuck is sort of the original blogger with all the weight and depth that title deserves. In other words, I probably wouldn't ever print out a blog posting by Chuck, but I might save the link somewhere on my hard drive.
― don weiner (don weiner), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link
"I SEE DEAD CRITICS! AND THEY WON'T SHUT UP!"
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― grady (grady), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 22:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 23:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― pinder (pinder), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 23:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27870
― timmy tannin (pompous), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 23:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 September 2006 00:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― billstevejim (billstevejim), Thursday, 7 September 2006 00:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link
now i'm kind of afraid.
It may take a while before you realize that he's wasting your time.
if by "a while" you mean "on average, three sentences," i guess you have a point.
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:22 (seventeen years ago) link
http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/lss/trends/graphic/rasputin.jpg
― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Fitter, happier, more populist
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:23 (seventeen years ago) link
-- A-ron Hubbard (Hurtingchie...), February 26th, 2000.
That was before 9/11 changed everything, apparently.
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 7 September 2006 01:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 September 2006 02:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 7 September 2006 02:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 7 September 2006 12:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 7 September 2006 12:53 (seventeen years ago) link
you get my drift. he's the post-Cheerios version of those laughable hack newspaper columnists like Bob Greene (who wrote a book about Alice Cooper in the 70s). self-consciousness sells like sex.
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:40 (seventeen years ago) link
I think the problem is that he doesn't take himself seriously enough, and indirectly, that he doesn't take his audience seriously either. If he did, then he would probably try to think through his ideas a little better. Instead I get the feeling that he looks for the "Klosterman angle" on a story - ie., the unconventional perspective that will hold up a sociological phenomenon at an unexpected angle - which will give him the element of surprise. And as long as audience disbelief can be suspended for the three or four pages that a Klosterman essay typically runs, he is satisfied with that. He's not really that serious about the issues he discusses, though he tries to come off as a cross between Malcolm Gladwell and Dave Barry.
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:17 (seventeen years ago) link
I'll put the book in the mail tomorrow. :D
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:19 (seventeen years ago) link
Oddly enough, all the examples I can think of are men's-magazine sex columnists.
― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:40 (seventeen years ago) link
The more I think about it, there are a lot of music writers who possess a strong writing voice that yet don't really have that much to say. Jessica Hopper comes to mind.
― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 September 2006 17:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 September 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link
I bet Chuck likes Fall Out Boy more than Sleater-Kinney. I know I do.
― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Thursday, 7 September 2006 19:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sundar (sundar), Thursday, 7 September 2006 21:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 7 September 2006 21:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 10:53 (seventeen years ago) link
Five Things No Bar Should Have
By Chuck Klosterman
1. Natural light. Bars are supposed to be womblike sanctuaries, separate from the blinding bleakness of mainstream society. They should always be poorly lit, and they should not have windows. If I'm drinking at 3:00 P.M., the sun should not remind me what time it is.
2. Patrons who are reading. Darkness also discourages all the bozos who think people will be impressed if they're seen reading in a bar, which is as cool as being drunk at Barnes & Noble.
3. Loud music. There is a belief among many bar owners that loud music creates intimacy (which theoretically increases the possibility of romantic interplay, thereby prompting people to return) by forcing patrons to sit closer together and scream directly into one another's ears. Everybody hates this. I have never been in a bar where people complained about the music being too soft.
4. Dogs. Never bring your dog into a bar. Ever. They're not clean, and they make the place feel like a veterinarian's office. How is it that you can't have a lit cigarette in any bar in New York or L.A., but you can have a pit bull? I understand that cigarettes cause cancer; they do not, however, rip the faces off small children.
5. Twenty-two-year-old female bartenders who "just wanna party." I already have enough problems. That's why I came to the bar.
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:44 (seventeen years ago) link
2. He's can't be out pretensed
3. He's old
4. He's got no dawgs yo
5. all of the above
― PappaWheelie demands you to ''only pick any'' (PappaWheelie 2), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 15:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― Zwan (miccio), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link
I've arrived early today, well before sunset, to make some demands that you help me get laid tonight. As you can see, I'm not naturally attractive, and I'm getting quite old. Can you tailor this entire evening to my needs in this quest? They are great indeed. I've written articles, books, and even been interviewed on TV. I understand the power of networking. This is why I've come to you.
Love,I don't need to tell you my name, I was on TV once
― PappaWheelie demands you to ''only pick any'' (PappaWheelie 2), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 15:12 (seventeen years ago) link
klosterman otm on all other counts
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link
^^ lol @ pappawheelie in "character"
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 23:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― edde (edde), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:03 (seventeen years ago) link
in a small footnote in his new book he calls Killdozer a "shitty Communist grindcore band". i don't even like Killdozer much and that pissed me off.
i don't hate everything he's written, but any charm his writing schtick might've originally had is non-existent now.
― how much, latebloomer? (latebloomer), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:25 (seventeen years ago) link
touche, mister wheelie, touche...
― edde (edde), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 02:08 (seventeen years ago) link
Totally underrated.
― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 02:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:09 (seventeen years ago) link
SPEAKING OF WANK IT"S YOU AGAIN PEW PEW
Also--WTF with reading in bars? who cares?
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Wednesday, 27 September 2006 16:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 16:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Wednesday, 27 September 2006 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link
Mr. Que, you are welcome to read my blog and post any comments there. I'm always interested in feedback.
― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:17 (seventeen years ago) link
And, from someone who has walked across a parking lot from a brew pub to a Barnes and Noble many times, I would have to say that drunken magazine browsing and bookbuying is seriously underrated.
― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:22 (seventeen years ago) link
Oh fuck it, PappaWheelie OTM
― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link
you got that right, Amigo...eating tacos when you are drunk is pretty underrated too...IMO.
― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:33 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.amazon.com/Fargo-Rock-City-Odyssey-Dakota/dp/0743406567/sr=8-1/qid=1159547518/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1444821-4239222?ie=UTF8&s=books
― darin (darin), Friday, 29 September 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.uga.edu/union/Pics/I&I%20pics/klosterman.jpgToasted teacake
http://www.mrsomalleys.co.uk/images/large/110056l_LRG.jpgChuck Klosterman
― Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link
Whole E Shit
― PappaWheelie burried Paul. The clues are there man! (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 29 September 2006 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie burried Paul. The clues are there man! (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 29 September 2006 22:00 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Friday, 29 September 2006 22:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― winter testing (winter testing), Friday, 29 September 2006 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― winter testing (winter testing), Friday, 29 September 2006 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link
― EZ Snappin (EZSnappin), Saturday, 30 September 2006 00:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 30 September 2006 13:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 30 September 2006 13:38 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.aldeaeducativa.com/IMAGES/capote.jpghttp://www.bookreporter.com/art/covers/140w/0679643109.jpg
And so far as I know, he never wandered around the Spin offices wearing a velvet cape. But I could be wrong.
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 30 September 2006 18:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― rogermexico (rogermexico), Saturday, 30 September 2006 18:55 (seventeen years ago) link
gypsy mothra did you ever lay out this theory of yours? I remember you mentioning it before in a thread about Dave Eggers ages ago.
― Ogmor Roundtrouser (Ogmor Roundtrouser), Saturday, 30 September 2006 19:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 30 September 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Sunday, 7 January 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link
I'm a little surprised that the dude doesn't post here.
― Pleasant Plains, Saturday, 14 June 2008 19:15 (fifteen years ago) link
is this guy like still a thing? i had him written off like neal pollack or something
― adam, Saturday, 14 June 2008 19:24 (fifteen years ago) link
dud
― cryfok, Saturday, 14 June 2008 19:45 (fifteen years ago) link
Chucky gives Chinese Democracy an A-
http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/chuck_klosterman_reviews
― oscar, Thursday, 20 November 2008 01:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh, weird. He's all beardo now but still wearing the conspicuous thick-rimmed indie specs of his "toasted teacake" period. What's the cultural significance of this?! Also, A-minus would have been the grade I'd have guessed Klosterman would have given Chinese Democracy, without having a) read a word he's written, or b) heard a note of the album in question. Does that mean a) I'm spooky clued-in, b) I'm a troll, or c) dud?
― staggerlee, Thursday, 20 November 2008 02:34 (fifteen years ago) link
Now I have read a word Klosterman has written. I read the piece linked to above. The Chinese Democracy one. And I liked it very much. (Despite my having hated nearly every note Guns & Roses has produced since Appetite For Destruction, or, briefly, embarrassingly, Gn'R Lies, it almost makes me want to hear the album. And I know how Klosterman feels about wanting to divine Axl's inscrutable motives; I have felt this about treasured artists' work on failed projects produced under intense scrutiny, and sadly I'm too drunk to remember what they were.) I'm sorry I was so foolish in my previous post and I repent. Classic?
― staggerlee, Thursday, 20 November 2008 02:46 (fifteen years ago) link
i think g n' r lies is pretty awesome mostly.
― any major some dude will tell you (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 20 November 2008 02:48 (fifteen years ago) link
I haven't heard it (G'n'R Lies)since 6 months after it came out and I became a Politically-Correct Young Person Who Reviled Hair Metal And Racist And Sexist Opinions Except Those Held By Eldridge Cleaver and sold my cassette of it. Maybe it's still pretty awesome. Anyhow, I went back to that AV Club page and found it really really spooky how much Klosterman looks like late-period (sensitive, beardo, I AM AN ACK-TOR) Robin Williams in that photo, down to the slightly blossoming nose. Must close internet now and get more wine and erase memory of anonymous, penetrating stare.
― staggerlee, Thursday, 20 November 2008 02:54 (fifteen years ago) link
And I know how Klosterman feels about wanting to divine Axl's inscrutable motives; I have felt this about treasured artists' work on failed projects produced under intense scrutiny, and sadly I'm too drunk to remember what they were.)
I remember now. My subconscious was trying to give me a prod by providing the phrase about divining motives: REM. Their period of transition into superstardom post-Green I recall listening to them with more fascination for their self-awareness than their music, which was sometimes astonishingly good but increasingly often fell über-flat as they very transparently wrote for a larger and larger audience. W/E.
― staggerlee, Thursday, 20 November 2008 12:14 (fifteen years ago) link
Chinese Democracy is (pretty much) the last Old Media album we'll ever contemplate in this context—it's the last album that will be marketed as a collection of autonomous-but-connected songs, the last album that will be absorbed as a static manifestation of who the band supposedly is, and the last album that will matter more as a physical object than as an Internet sound file. This is the end of that.
"(pretty much)"
― m coleman, Thursday, 20 November 2008 13:58 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, that part that m. coleman quoted was definitely the part of the review (at least of the parts I actually skimmed so far) that bugged me the most -- "last Old Media album... last album that will be marketed as a collection of autonomous-but-connected songs..." Haven't people been saying that about albums for at least the last five years now? And then another one (or another hundred) come along that disprove the theory.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 20 November 2008 14:06 (fifteen years ago) link
(I like the review in general, though. Even though I really have no particular interest in hearing the new GnR album unless it falls into my lap.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 20 November 2008 14:08 (fifteen years ago) link
Dear Chuck (Klosterman): don't worry, there will be another U2 album
― Passenger 57 (rogermexico.), Thursday, 20 November 2008 15:21 (fifteen years ago) link
Klosterman kind of looks like Paul Krugman with that beard.
― o. nate, Thursday, 20 November 2008 17:10 (fifteen years ago) link
Did his Beatles piss take get discussed on another thread? I kinda hate this piece.http://www.avclub.com/articles/chuck-klosterman-repeats-the-beatles,32560/
― sorry to put this kind of shit on your thread (forksclovetofu), Friday, 25 September 2009 05:23 (fourteen years ago) link
I thought it was intermittently funny and not too objectionable by Klosterman standards.
― o. nate, Friday, 25 September 2009 19:49 (fourteen years ago) link
NO.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 16:25 (thirteen years ago) link
I don’t know if I’m helping or hurting anymore.
Take a guess.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 16:26 (thirteen years ago) link
Rating Rock: Klosterman versus Kant
Why stop there?
― Gorge, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 16:28 (thirteen years ago) link
deep dark secret confession: i discovered ilx by googling "chuck klosterman"
― fuckin' lame, bros (latebloomer), Wednesday, 14 April 2010 21:30 (thirteen years ago) link
The immediate assumption is that this is some type of sonic endurance test, and that no person could possibly enjoy the experience of seeing the most hated (yet popular) rock band of 2001 followed by the most popular (yet hated) rock band of 2012. But this is what I wanted to do: I wanted to see Creed at New York's intimate Beacon Theatre (performing their 1997 album My Own Prison in its entirety), followed by Nickelback in front of 18,000 people at Madison Square Garden.
Srs question: Nickelback is the most popular rock band of 2012?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
They're still up there, but they peaked in 2006-2007.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
they're up there but Coldplay outsells them handily
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
but do coldplay really ROCK. [future klosterman thinkpiece]
― tylerw, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
is there a reason Klosterman picked 2001 for Creed instead of 1999 or 2000, when they were even more popular? and forgive my memory, was any rock group MORE popular than Creed then? Linkin Park's the only competitor that comes to mind.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
sigh, My Own Prison Creed seemed so innocent, just a bunch of monotheistic Pearl Jam fans with a dream
― da croupier, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
christ Chuck would it kill you to have an opinion on something once in a while? "Why do people hate Creed and Nickelback so much?" Is the answer really that complex that you need to write a zillion fucking words on it?
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
this guy sucks
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
it's kinda weird that he wrote this piece in 2012 and not only didn't acknowledge that nickelback + creed are probably no longer on the radar of most grantland readers (i assume?) but pretend like they're still these wildly popular, zeitgesty bands. i haven't even heard someone say that they've hated either of them in years. maybe i'm just out of touch.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
well he still writes mega pieces on van halen, so
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
Hey Mordy, tell us what Grantland readers listen to
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
idk, i assume whatever bill simmons is digging?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/48235/what’d-we-miss-at-coachella’s-second-weekend ?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
Can't believe this fucking idiot thinks that a band that plays Madison Square Garden is still wildly popular
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/47814/the-top-10-songs-in-…-america
― Mordy, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
whiney i don't have the strength to argue w u about this. u are right about whatever it is u are saying.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
hahahaha
― Lamp, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
Klosterman really could have written "the experience of seeing the most popular (yet hated) rock band of 2001 followed by the most hated (yet popular) rock band of 2012" and been just as arguably correct. you know nathan rabin would have explained the distinction if HE made it.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
I don't understand it either. It's like writing about how people hate Hootie & the Blowfish in 2000. As far as I know, the last viable year of feverish Nickelback hating was 2008. Even the haters are more like "well, they suck, but they know how to write a hit"
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
I think I 'hate' nickelback but I also have no idea what they sound like or what their hits were
― iatee, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
I'm sure you've heard them before. Their hits are ubiquitious if not very distinctive. If it helps I've always found them more tolerable than Creed
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
As far as I know, the last viable year of feverish Nickelback hating was 2008
that's a long time to save receipts
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
never forget: http://idolator.com/366019/nickelbacks-chad-kroeger-gives-us-one-more-reason-to-be-jealous
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
so proud
― Mordy, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
Always he reminds us of who he really is.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
shocked idolator still has all that shit archived
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
it really goes well with the new WE LOVE EVERYTHING CUZ WE'RE A CONTENT FARM logo
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
As far as I know, the last viable year of feverish Nickelback hating was 2008.
nah, after that petition over some halftime show last year you can still make the argument they're the most hated band of the moment. surprised chuck never acknowledges that or that creed was sued for sucking in concert.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
i haven't read the klosterman thing yet, but i enjoyed the GQ creed/nickleback thing. GQ dude is young too! and funny.
http://www.gq.com/entertainment/music/201204/nickelback-creed-nyc-concert-beacon-theatre-msg-review
― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
kinda crazy that both articles came out the same day.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
― da croupier, Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:18 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's a shame because they're so good on record
― dharunravir (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
okay, read the klosterman thing. i liked that too. i like how he found some of the most eloquent Creed fans on earth to quote. or maybe most Creed fans are really eloquent!
and this is funny on Nickleback:
"The group's weakness is their obsession with transposable power ballads, most of which sound like what would happen if Bob Rock helped Coldplay write a really loud song for Garth Brooks (which would undoubtedly be the most popular song in the history of mankind, were it to literally exist)."
― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
I never liked "it's as if Band X produced Band Y doing a song in the style of Band Z" style prose, mostly because of people like Klostermann
For the record I still think Nickelback are the most hated band around right now, but the hate has been dying down steadily for quite a few years. The era of whatever that album was with the car on the cover (All the Right Reasons?) is over. We'll always have "It's up to you, do you want to hear some rock n roll or do you want to go home?............alright, see ya"
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah well you have proven time and time again that you have no idea about anything
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
--The recent facebook page "Can a pickle get more fans than Nickelback--The recent petition to keep them from playing the Detroit Lions Thanksgiving Day Game--The recent Rolling Stone interview with dude from the Black Keys going in on Nickleback
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
fuck off Whiney, how many ubiquitous Nickelback hits can you name that were released in the last 7 years
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
^^^ rejected lyrics from Pink Floyd's "Not Now John"
― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
The Gauntlet of Suck is a funny article name
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
whiney has clearly demonstrated that he's followed the nickelback beat more diligently than anyone else on this thread so i think we should just defer to his nickelbacxpertise.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
all he needs to do now is demonstrate the ability to read an entire sentence without trying to interject his own thoughts
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
there was a nickelback single about three years ago that was 'raunchy' and in it the nickelbro sang about wanting to get his dick sucked or something. just thinking about it makes me angry. its not at all comparable to hootie in 2000, since the hootster didnt have nearly the longevity of these fuck-n-sucks
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
i think you're trying to draw too many parallels here. if we had Facebook in the era of Hootie I'd think it would be quite similar.
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:35 (eleven years ago) link
it was your parallel fuckhole!!
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
I hear that takes a special kind of operation.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
COUGHhttp://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2011/11/nickelback_detroit_lions_halftime_show_petition.php
hi everybody
i thought that piece was terrible, although in keeping with c-klo's recent Unfrozen Caveman Music Writer schtick
― maura, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
i do wonder what scott stapp's 'weird 40-year-old existence' will be like though
yes, I did compare Hootie in 2000 to Nickelback in 2012, fully aware that Nickelback's record sales haven't tapered off as badly. what's your point? that not every part of the analogy works?
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
i think he's just yelling at u
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
no part of it works
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
what's the part of it that works
i always think that klosterman should just do journo/interviewing stuff. i think that's what he's good at. he got good quotes from creed fans! they are notoriously shy!
― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
Nice GQ piece. This is true: "I am a firm believer that you can sincerely enjoy yourself at the concert of somebody you couldn't give a flying fuck about, as long as the people onstage give enough of a flying fuck to put their hearts into it."
― And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
how about the part where you go fuck yourself
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
:0
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
zing!
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
klosterman is fine at reporting a story but somewhere along the way he decided that his taste was worth reporting on.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
thats the problem - he seems so afraid to actually draw a hard line anywhere, so you can read 20 pages of the dude writing about music without any real indication of what he actually likes. instead he's just content to use half-baked "think about it, bro" statements like "Steely Dan were more subversive than every punk band combined"
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
it's basically in line with his general thing of trying to seem smart by equivocating and making unclear statements.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
for the ilxor who has everything
http://www.amazon.com/HYPERtheticals-50-Questions-Insane-Conversations/dp/0307587924
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:20 (eleven years ago) link
i'm actually kind of impressed that he commodified his love of inane hypotheticals
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
^^i fucking swear he manages to work a Bob Rock reference into every music piece he ever does
― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
He's apparently the New York Times' new Ethicist columnist.
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/06/07/chuck_klosterman_to_be_nyt_s_new_ethicist_a_new_twitter_handle_suggests_the_music_critic_has_landed_a_new_job_at_the_sunday_magazine_.html
― Poliopolice, Thursday, 7 June 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
haha!
― tylerw, Thursday, 7 June 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know what nyt ethicist column is, and maybe ethicist doesn't have anything to do with ethics, but in case it does, klosterman would be my last choice for such a column
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 June 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
(not that i'm saying that i think he's unethical, but that until now his shtick seems to be explicitly non-ethical)
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 June 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
it's like an advice column where people write in and are like "i was at a coffee shop and I got up for a second and someone took my seat." and then the ethicist advises them on the appropriate course of action.
― tylerw, Thursday, 7 June 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
oh, in that case i'm sure he'll do great
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 June 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
I usually avoid the Ethicist column like the plague - too much portentous solemnizing and faux-certitude - but I'll probably check it out now, just out of curiosity. Maybe Klosterman will be able to deliver his sermons with enough of a wink to lighten the mood.
― o. nate, Thursday, 7 June 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
"Best known for his Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs collection" Really? That's his biggest book?
― Get wolves (DL), Friday, 8 June 2012 09:32 (eleven years ago) link
which other one is more popular?
― Mordy, Friday, 8 June 2012 09:36 (eleven years ago) link
Fargo?
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Friday, 8 June 2012 10:03 (eleven years ago) link
nah. i'm sure this isn't scientific but fargo is #42,378 on amazon, sd&c is #9,032
― Mordy, Friday, 8 June 2012 10:11 (eleven years ago) link
sd&c was the one seth cohen read.
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 8 June 2012 10:12 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^ important influence
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 8 June 2012 13:51 (eleven years ago) link
Huh, well there you go, can't argue with sales. I always thought Fargo was the one that made his name and then Killing Yourself to Live cemented his rep. Those seem to me like original, substantial books even now, whereas S,D&CP is a hideously titled collection of glib, dated essays. Much prefer the less schticky Klosterman IV - he's underrated as an interviewer. I prefer seeing him do interesting things with a format as unpromising as, say, a Wilco profile for Spin, rather than going the full Klosterman with the kind of flip bullshit that used to fill his Esquire columns (the one about why people hate America being a low). So, um, basically I like him best when he’s not doing the thing that has made him one of the most successful journalists in America.
― Get wolves (DL), Friday, 8 June 2012 14:13 (eleven years ago) link
S,D&CP is my least favorite of his books (haven't read the fiction) because it indulges in a lot more faux-generational/"we all do this, and if you don't you're a self-hating liberal" bullshit that unfortunately tends to do better than the more openly idiosyncratic essays in his later books and Fargo.
― da croupier, Friday, 8 June 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
"i'm a weirdo obsessed with a facet of pop culture" just doesn't sell as well as "we are the generation obsessed with a facet of pop culture"
― da croupier, Friday, 8 June 2012 14:41 (eleven years ago) link
The podcast that Grantland posted yesterday - a conversation between he and Joe Walsh - has so many moments where he disappears up his own ass trying to find a point. But it's Joe Walsh, so it has a certain nutty charm despite Klosterman.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 8 June 2012 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
From way upthread
A couple months back they featured Klosterman, and the first book he plugs is Atlas Shrugged
I am shocked that this ambitious, successful, reactionary writer loves Ayn Rand.
― Get wolves (DL), Friday, 8 June 2012 14:58 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much everything this guy does in public (and in private for all i know) is an unmitigated disaster, so i guess... good luck NYT?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 8 June 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
they certainly share "life is good" as a philosophy.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 June 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
xp Should retitle it The Challopsian or What Would Axl Do?
― Get wolves (DL), Friday, 8 June 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
Alfred - they go through that song LINE BY LINE.
"Did you own a Maserati?
Not then, but I do now.
You lost your license --
I lost my whole wallet!"
It's strangely funny.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 8 June 2012 15:14 (eleven years ago) link
I lost my whole wallet!
^^lol i would love to kick it with joe walsh
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 8 June 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JErXQWk0cgM/TPOV8AKJXqI/AAAAAAAAAxk/hF31n2l1dTk/s1600/SoWhatJoeWalsh.jpg
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 June 2012 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
pretty terrible: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/magazine/halfhearted-half-brother.html
― Mordy, Sunday, 10 June 2012 00:19 (eleven years ago) link
Joe Walsh is so rad. He's got my vote!
― freebroheem (loves laboured breathing), Sunday, 10 June 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
Well in a way Klosterman's probably going to make that column more honest, by dispensing with the pretense and making it indistinguishable from Dear Abby.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
It will still, of course, be terrible.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
i don't see anything terrible in that column Mordy posted
― la musica de harry frogbs (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
"oh noes the dude known for saved by the bell riffs didnt use the catergorical imperative in an advice column about sick cats, emmanual kant is spinning in his FUCKING GRAVE!!!!"
― la musica de harry frogbs (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/10/magazine/10ethicist/10ethicist-articleInline.jpg
― the route is ban (k3vin k.), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/10/magazine/10ethicist/10ethicist-articleInline.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/10/magazine/10ethicist/10ethicist-articleInline.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/10/magazine/10ethicist/10ethicist-articleInline.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/10/magazine/10ethicist/10ethicist-articleInline.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/10/magazine/10ethicist/10ethicist-articleInline.jpg
mordy otm
― balls, Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:19 (eleven years ago) link
i guess i dont read enough newspaper columns where randos tell me how to live my life to know if this is terrible or not
― la musica de harry frogbs (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
everyone's very aware of yr aversion to reading
― balls, Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
frightening to think that klosterman got this gig off of that ridiculous at the time even more hilarious in retrospect 'breaking bad is better than the wire cuz the wire is liberal and breaking bad is serious moral show cuz good guy turns out to be bad guy' grantland piece.
― balls, Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
You can’t love someone out of guilt.
sizable portion of the NYT readership will beg to differ
http://rgr-static1.tangentlabs.co.uk/images/bau/97815986/9781598693416/0/0/plain/portable-jewish-mother-guilt-food-and-when-are-you-giving-me-grandchildren.jpg
― (REAL NAME) (m coleman), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
― balls, Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:25 AM (23 minutes ago)
oh my god, had never read this
― the route is ban (k3vin k.), Sunday, 10 June 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
It makes sense that they would hire Klosterman, because they need young readers, and young people love Klosterman. He is very in tune with young people, so will speak to them. And they will listen, because it is Klosterman, voice of a generation, who will be familiar to everyone of that generation, which is young and likes young things and especially young people telling them the best ways to go about doing young things and solving young problems in a voice they understand, because they are young and generally don't listen unless someone is speaking to them in a language they understand. Plus there was the time he reviewed "Chinese Democracy."
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 10 June 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
Was Joel Stein too busy?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 10 June 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
in that ethicist column a guy asks if he should be welcoming to his disliked half-sister because of her loneliness and need for companionship -- he explicitly says "does someone else’s desire for connection .. outweigh my personal preference?" -- and chuck spends three paragraphs explaining why the guy does not need to be welcoming to his half-sister merely because she is related to him.
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 10 June 2012 17:26 (eleven years ago) link
i actually thought that was the least bad of the 3
― the route is ban (k3vin k.), Sunday, 10 June 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
well yeah it did not include the part where he explains that the way you know it's ok to own a pet but not ok to own a human is that it is currently socially acceptable to give away a pet. ethics!
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 10 June 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
okay, this is pretty weird
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8624514/chuck-klosterman-david-petraeus-scandal-living-cia-conspiracy-theory
looks like it's just a coincidence but still, what if....what if....
― frogbs, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 14:13 (eleven years ago) link
It's a sign of something.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/chuck-klosterman-corners-guy-at-party-wearing-dio,33615/
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 August 2013 19:45 (ten years ago) link
I had a funny exchange with my dad a few weeks ago. He said, "Who's this terrible guy they have writing the Ethicist column now? It was always kind of bad, not now it's awful!" He'd never heard of Chuck Klosterman, so I gave him an abbreviated spiel on Klosterman and his crimes. He said, "OK, but that doesn't explain why they gave him this column." I had to agree.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 23 August 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
The Onion article about Klosterman/Dio is utter genius.
― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Friday, 23 August 2013 21:15 (ten years ago) link
Listening to him on Bill Simmon’s podcast this week, and his tales are mostly so...dated.
― ... (Eazy), Saturday, 5 October 2019 18:55 (four years ago) link
I’ll never forget him being on Simmons pod back in fall 2015 and predicting Trump’s popularity would peak in Feb 2016 and then it’d be downhill after that. In fairness at the time I thought he was actually overestimating Trump’s prospects.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Sunday, 6 October 2019 00:47 (four years ago) link
the new podcast looks dire
― Mordy, Friday, 21 February 2020 02:52 (four years ago) link
was there ever a more certain "dud"
this should've been a defend the indefensible thread
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 21 February 2020 03:25 (four years ago) link
The episode of I Don't Even Own a Television on him a while back was good, though it made me embarrased for ever having read and enjoyed any of his stuff way back when--though admittedly it was just the one Billy Joel piece I liked (and not the one that Billy himself was pissed about).
― Maria Edgelord (cryptosicko), Friday, 21 February 2020 04:09 (four years ago) link
Came across this, took me back to an earlier ILM era
Perhaps the best insight into the world’s fascination with the band came in a Chuck Klosterman 2002 Spin magazine article. First of all, he pointed out that they were no novelty band. In fact, their music was genuinely revelatory. He wrote, “The White Stripes have done what great rock bands are supposed to do — they’ve reinvented the blues with contemporary instincts.”
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 17 December 2021 20:01 (two years ago) link
He's mentioned a few times in Sanneh's "Major Labels" book, and I kept thinking, who gives a shit what Chuck Klosterman thinks about anything? Just because he likes Motley Crue or something?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 17 December 2021 20:02 (two years ago) link
The episode of I Don't Even Own a Television on him a while back was good
Klosterman is terrible but I wouldn't subject my worst enemy to this podcast, either as subject or listener
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 17 December 2021 22:22 (two years ago) link
In a nostalgic tour through the decade, Klosterman defends Gen X as today’s “least annoying” generation.
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 03:24 (two years ago) link
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 February 2022 03:37 (two years ago) link
I saw the little excerpt from the interview everyone is retweeting on twitter, and now I'm reveling in everyone dunking on him
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:01 (two years ago) link
This Chuck Klosterman take feels true to me, but is that just because I grew up in the 90s. If you didn't does this feel true to you? https://t.co/wQOClHqPWm pic.twitter.com/FDhkM35tSa— Ezra Klein (@ezraklein) February 8, 2022
I dunno, the lack of smartphones makes for a pretty obvious time distinction and somewhat less casual homophobia in general.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:07 (two years ago) link
I know I'm but it does seem like time has slowed-- I mean this is the 3rd decade in which we're paying attention to Bieber, Drake, Taylor Swift, Kanye, Gaga, Miley, Rihanna, Katy Perry, Coldplay etc.
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:10 (two years ago) link
I'm old
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:11 (two years ago) link
that's why Lil Nas X was so refreshing, it felt like this era was getting its own little Lou Bega. but now he's a megastar too. I like him, so good for him. but still.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:13 (two years ago) link
I think there has been some slowing of time with some types of music and music pop culture - the gap between Beatlemania and the Sex Pistols being the equivalent of 2008 to today is kind of an easy way to lay that out - but Klosterman/Klein aren't going to find a good argument for that in films and absolutely not in TV.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:20 (two years ago) link
― roflrofl fight (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:23 (two years ago) link
Nah, the obvious explanations are that those, like Klosterman, who experienced the 90s as formative years mean that they loom large. As you slide through your 30s and 40s, you're generally a little less-self-centered and obsessive about cultural phenomena. Klosterman probably sees a huge distinction between hair metal from 1987 and a Pavement album from 1994. But he probably can't identify the same huge stylistic swing between a Game album in 2006 and Young Thug's Stoner in 2013.
― paulhw, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:23 (two years ago) link
In general, he has the vibe of the beer-breath guy at trivia night at the bar you're wanting to escape from.
― paulhw, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:25 (two years ago) link
if you read the whole interview, which I did despite the fact I'm now irritated about CK once again, it's clear the interviewer disagrees with the premise of his book. Klosterman's asides where he entertains the idea that, hey, maybe he left out some essential things, only to quickly dismiss the idea is pretty much his m.o.
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:25 (two years ago) link
I'd argue that Klosterman's formative years ended by 1992ish and he both claims a slice of the 90s as his, while also dismissing the weight of any of it
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:26 (two years ago) link
Klosterman/Klein aren't going to find a good argument for that in films and absolutely not in TV.
The MCU started in 2008
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:27 (two years ago) link
he's a hair metal guy at the end of the day, i feel like he's now pretending that he liked 90s stuff that he didn't actually like
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:28 (two years ago) link
the blurb for this new book is insufferablehttps://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/557048/the-nineties-by-chuck-klosterman/
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:31 (two years ago) link
xxp - Steadicam was introduced in the middle of his 1960-1990 timeline and represented a massive shift in visual language.
Films made in 2005 vs. 2022 are going to look different (multiple generations of digital video improvement) but the technology visible on-screen has seen rapid change (smartphones, social media).
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:33 (two years ago) link
jesus christ, Ezra Klein is younger than me and still thinks like that
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:36 (two years ago) link
that view makes some sense for people who aren't culture/music beat reporters, in that at some point you get locked into a career, having kids, or some other stable system where your interest in popular culture becomes more fleeting
Klosterman has no good excuse
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:37 (two years ago) link
I think globalization and the internet has kind of smoothed culture out a little bit to where everything is kind of a house of mirrors that reflects all eras and all places at once. Like we don't have really stark swings like "everyone wears bellbottoms for five years" or "everyone uses gated drums for five years" like we used to. It's not an especially profound observation and it sucks that there's always a huge market for framing things as if they were
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:37 (two years ago) link
Like it's absolutely undeniable that the last 10 years in music (Future's 2012 to Lil Baby's 2022) is equally as stark and different as the change between, say, Chuck Berry's 1957 to Sly Stone's 1967. It has nothing to do with "paying attention" and is not exactly something to write a book about or worth setting the internet ABLAZE
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:40 (two years ago) link
― paulhw, Wednesday, February 9, 2022 3:23 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
pretty much. I've thought a lot about my formative memories and the times I was "with it" up until like, I dunno, 2007, and realizing all the shit that occupies so much mental space for me are things that I probably wouldn't pay any attention to at all. like one thing I remember growing up was The Lion King, it was all anyone talked about in school for like a solid month, and if you didn't see it you felt like an outcast. nowadays that would be like what, the Spiderman movie? I dunno. I haven't seen it.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:42 (two years ago) link
even then, these are specific things that aren't happening at the individual level and cataloguing all the micro-trends and groups that are interested in them, by age and geography, would be a herculean task
that's different from looking around and saying "oh this is all the same thing as fifteen years ago"
reminds me of my dad finally buying new jeans a while ago and realizing that pants that have a lower rise meant he bought a smaller size despite having gained weight, just a funny coincidence marking the fact that he'd probably been wearing the same jeans (or at least style of them) for 20 years regardless of trend. it's easy to say "oh, style hasn't changed" when in fact, it's you not buying new pants
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:43 (two years ago) link
If anything culture has slowed in like WAU RAPIDLY CHANGING SIGNIFIERS but the BUSINESS of culture has sped up rapidly through constantly evolving means of distribution (cf. Napster -> iPod -> Myspace -> Facebook -> Twitter -> Spotify -> Vine -> TikTok -> NFT)
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:43 (two years ago) link
Like it's absolutely undeniable that the last 10 years in music (Future's 2012 to Lil Baby's 2022) is equally as stark and different as the change between, say, Chuck Berry's 1957 to Sly Stone's 1967.
how about say, 1969-1981? feel like there was more change & evolution in any given 3-year period there than you've had between 2012 and now
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:46 (two years ago) link
I think that's debatable!
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:53 (two years ago) link
I think globalization and the internet has kind of smoothed culture out a little bit to where everything is kind of a house of mirrors that reflects all eras and all places at once. Like we don't have really stark swings like "everyone wears bellbottoms for five years" or "everyone uses gated drums for five years" like we used to. It's not an especially profound observation and it sucks that there's always a huge market for framing things as if they were― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 3:37 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 3:37 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
I think part of it also that 20th-century mass culture did a good job of reducing decades to easily digestible caricatures, like the Jazz Age, the Me Decade, the slacker/grunge era (even as those labels actually described only a narrow band of what was happening at the time). I think there are lots of ways in which the culture of the 2000s is distinct from today's, but there doesn't seem to be a media caricature of it. A few years ago, I would've said we needed more distance from it to see it clearly, but now I think it's more likely that general media/cultural fragmentation has made it harder for attempts at encapsulation to stick.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 21:58 (two years ago) link
x-post. the problem with the comparison is that the "story" of, say, musical change was a mass culture one (e.g. of disco in 1976 giving way to post-punk in 1980). However, now we tend to compare styles within a smaller genre pool, having given up on the idea of mass culture. The stylistic changes within disco over 20 years are less striking, same with post-punk.
― paulhw, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:00 (two years ago) link
I mean, yes and no... I think there still are moments like that, like, say autotune vocals and trap drums, but then it just stays that way forever as opposed to going "out of fashion"
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:03 (two years ago) link
Like, I guess pop music sounding like big tent EDM is out of fashion, but you can still fill a field with EDM fans as opposed to, say, a club playing straight disco in 1992
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:04 (two years ago) link
I think a lot of this branding is based on an extremely reductive hegemonic view written by whoever has power when an era is defined
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:04 (two years ago) link
I think culture can change more quickly in some periods and more slowly in others though. For example, when you see interviews of aging Hollywood stars in the early 1970s they're all very aware that the culture had just changed radically over the previous ten years. And the general public seemed to recognize this as well. You wouldn't find nearly as many people saying that about the last ten years.
But there's a certain irony in what Klosterman is saying, on one hand "the 1990s was the last decade with a fully formed culture," and yet things aren't like they used to be in some profound way - the latter which would suggest we live in a different culture today.
― Josefa, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:05 (two years ago) link
xxxp - probably, obviously I've missed a ton of what's gone on the last decade, these ILX year end countdowns are sometimes the only way I keep up with things. but thinking of the stuff I have from 69-81 it is comprised very heavily of records that could not have existed 5 years prior; entire scenes broke big and collapsed in the time it takes most bands to record a new album today
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:06 (two years ago) link
cf. the entire recorded catalog of the Beatles spanned... nine years
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:08 (two years ago) link
Anyway this is an insanely stupid argument and it makes sense that the dude literally makes money selling insanely stupid arguments
https://www.chuckklostermanauthor.com/books/hypertheticals-nt
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:09 (two years ago) link
cf. the entire recorded catalog of the Beatles spanned... nine yearsIt’s so hard for me to wrap my head around this, and watching that doc series just brought it to the fore…
― False Pretenses Lad (morrisp), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:12 (two years ago) link
I guess it comes back somehow to that Zappa clip where he's talking about the times when old A&R dudes would just go "hmm, interesting, go throw some money at that" rather than try to dictate the culture as they understood it. the two periods I think of where there was just an overwhelming amount of movement happening was the mid-70s and early-90s which were both boom eras for the music industry leading to bands like Ween and Boredoms getting big major label deals. idk if anything quite like that has happened since, especially not since Clear Channel took over everything
I mean, look at some of the albums that sold 8 figures during the mid-70s: Tubular Bells, Oxygene, The Six Wives of Henry VIII...I can only imagine some teenager puzzling over how that shit got so popular
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:15 (two years ago) link
The Beatles recordings people know are really from about seven years, no? Summer '62 to Summer '69 (w/ mostly touch-ups afterward)
― Josefa, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:15 (two years ago) link
the Beatles only recorded for less than a decade, but most of the band had been on the grind doing shows for five years before that
surely they'd have had a soundcloud much earlier if they started now
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:16 (two years ago) link
By comparison, here are some artists who released their first album 9 years ago (2013): Ariana Grande, Lorde, Run the Jewels, Haim, CHVRCHES
― jaymc, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:17 (two years ago) link
the first two are just making adult contemporary now, RTJ were always old, Haim and chvrches probably doing ok within their niches
(yes, I'm being purposefully cynical)
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:22 (two years ago) link
The New Yorker had some wordshttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/02/07/chuck-klosterman-brings-back-the-nineties
brief excerpt of the extended tear-down
His response to the recent progressive vilification of Bill Clinton’s Presidency is delivered in two thudding single-sentence paragraphs that encapsulate his attitude toward those with a darker story to offer: “But you know, it didn’t seem that way at the time. It really did not.” He has no patience for partisan rashness, for passionate convictions that would break upon his ghostly solitude.
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:31 (two years ago) link
obviously I take great issue w/them calling him the sharpest music writer of his generation when I've been on ilm for long enough to know much better
his shtick definitely affected writing styles overall, no doubt
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:33 (two years ago) link
also, lol that I missed this
its more difficult to tell the difference between a 2005 and 2020 film than a 1965 and 1995 film because one time period is twice as long as the other
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:35 (two years ago) link
He didn't say that. He compared 1965/1995 to 1990/today. He said it was hard to sense that 2005 was 16 years ago.
― Josefa, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:40 (two years ago) link
musical change was a mass culture one (e.g. of disco in 1976 giving way to post-punk in 1980).
except in 1980, mass culture wasn't post-punk - it was Pink Floyd, Billy Joel, Bob Seger, Queen, Kenny Rogers, etc
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:42 (two years ago) link
xp ah, I was quoting a tweet, and while not strictly on the lines...
klosterman has never had a serious conversation with anyone who isn't white or born in north america in his life
there might be evidence to the contrary, but I'm skeptical
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:45 (two years ago) link
klosterman has never had a serious conversation with anyone who isn't white or born in north america in his life― mh, Wednesday, February 9, 2022 2:45 PM
― mh, Wednesday, February 9, 2022 2:45 PM
lol otm
― get shrunk by this funk. (Austin), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:49 (two years ago) link
fuck this trey anastasio looking motherfucker, amazing that he's kept up his streak of being both wrong and super annoying about everything for two decades now
― adam, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:52 (two years ago) link
the stupid quote in full
If you show someone an obscure film from 1965 and then an obscure film from 1995, anyone viewing those clips will be able to recognize which one is older. But I do not think that would be the case if you showed someone a movie from 1990 and a movie from now — the difference would seem much less.
Would someone really struggle to notice that Slacker or What's Eating Gilbert Grape weren't from the last couple of years?
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:58 (two years ago) link
they should go back and CG the Captain Jack Sparrow costume on to Depp in all his old movies
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:00 (two years ago) link
my point was about the inherited narrative, not the reality.
― paulhw, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:13 (two years ago) link
that's very klosty of you
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:15 (two years ago) link
man notices that color films look different from black n white films
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:29 (two years ago) link
xpost ah sorry misunderstood
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:32 (two years ago) link
My son was just telling me the differences between the old Minecraft and the new Minecraft so obviously things are changing
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:39 (two years ago) link
I'm as ignorant as anyone here, so I decided to try this out. I listened to "Turn On the Lights" and "Voice of the Heroes", and while the emotional mood is different, the similarities (repeated keyboard arpeggios, stuttering hi-hats, squelchy bass) were striking, and there didn't feel like any particular progress from one decade to the next. Then again, what would someone who considered themselves musically literate, born in 1917, have said comparing "Johnny B. Goode" and "Dance to the Music"?
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:46 (two years ago) link
I mean, part of the inability to hear particular differences is down to inexperience. I'm pretty sure anything my grandfather heard, when he never listened to anything past the big band era, all sounded the same
― mh, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:54 (two years ago) link
I just watched “Pretty in Pink” and “The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers” and can’t figure out which one was made earlier.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 10 February 2022 00:00 (two years ago) link
The hobbits in "Pretty in Pink" were real, the Hobbits in "Two Towers" were CGI.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 February 2022 00:31 (two years ago) link
Yeah but can you tell the difference between Breakfast Club and Meet the Feebles?
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 10 February 2022 01:05 (two years ago) link
The former is puppets, the latter is CGI.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 February 2022 01:06 (two years ago) link
obviously I take great issue w/them calling him the sharpest music writer of his generation when I've been on ilm for long enough to know much betterhis shtick definitely affected writing styles overall, no doubt
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 February 2022 01:50 (two years ago) link
xpost - mh what about Future vs Lil Baby vs Jazzy Sensation by Bambaataa (81) vs How I Could Just Kill a Man by Cypress Hill (91), that's way more different
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 February 2022 01:55 (two years ago) link
or, the best selling rap album of 2012 was Drake, the best selling rap album of last year was...Drake
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 February 2022 02:05 (two years ago) link
i wonder where the growing easier access to music since the late 90s factors into all of this. i don't really have any solid thoughts on it either way, but surely that's been a big contributing factor to the uber-nostalgia overload that we're currently living through. i know for those of us who grew up relying on magazines, music videos, and word of mouth, pre-napster/internet feels very much like "the beforetimes" — and, for better or for worse, will inevitably be romanticized. not trying to sound like a "well back in my day" story, but i'd liken it to my grandparents preferring to listen to the radio instead of watching television.
(not that i preferred "the beforetime", i.e. not being able to hear new music as easily as now, but the feeling is the same. it was just "a different time" and some folks probably were young and carefree then, so look back on it fondly? idk.)
just trying to make sense of this obsession with such definitively stated time periods. i don't understand.
never read much ck, but he seems a doofy blowhard (takes one to know one, i suppose).
― get shrunk by this funk. (Austin), Thursday, 10 February 2022 03:20 (two years ago) link
yeah I think streaming has a lot to do with it
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 February 2022 04:29 (two years ago) link
right the whole career of "professional pop culture/movie/music dork" like Kevin Smith, James Murphy, or Quentin Tarantino didn't seem to really exist before the 90's, and now that basically everything's available 24/7 in your pocket its kind of like half of what all media is now
― frogbs, Thursday, 10 February 2022 04:43 (two years ago) link
There used to be 10 music journalists and now there are 10 million.
― billstevejim, Thursday, 10 February 2022 06:21 (two years ago) link
frogbs is right but I don’t think it has to do with “everything is in your pocket” but instead “criticism is monetized by having constant streams of content about lots of subjects, and Young Sheldon is not going to recap itself”
― Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note I'm (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 10 February 2022 07:15 (two years ago) link
There used to be 10 music journalists and now there are 10 million.Only ten are making any money from it tho.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Friday, 11 February 2022 01:30 (two years ago) link
FYI, they had a feature with Klosterman and on 90s nostalgia on CBS Saturday Morning last week.
― earlnash, Friday, 11 February 2022 01:35 (two years ago) link
Only ten are making any money from it tho.
Has anyone written about alt-weeklies being forced to discontinue sex work ads and the effect on being able to make money as a music critic/journalist?
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 11 February 2022 01:38 (two years ago) link
Rightly or wrongly, I decided early on that Klosterman's interests weren't mine, and then there seemed to be a certain amount of celebrity attached to him, so I didn't read any of his books. The Nineties is the first one I've read.
Thought it was good--raced through it. At lot of that, I'm sure, has to do with my own positive feelings about the decade. Definitely the last time I was completely plugged into new music, from the start of the decade to the finish. Films and politics too. So I was interested in most everything he covered. (The only chapter I was completely uninterested in was the one on clear sodas--Zima, etc.--and the Biosphere...but there was other stuff in that chapter that did interest me.) Liked the two political chapters ('92 election + Clinton in general), and his memory of all that more or less aligns with my own. (Although he didn't mention some of the early forgotten stories I associate with Clinton: Zoe Baird, Jocelyn Elders, Cristophe.) He's good on movies and sports--liked that he highlighted Michael Jordan's season playing baseball. I wasn't really looking for deep analysis...there's analysis, but it didn't feel like work. If I wrote a book on the '90s myself, it'd probably be a lot like this one. I'd just say "I" a lot more.
― clemenza, Sunday, 6 March 2022 16:19 (two years ago) link
Somebody like Jonathan Lethem once said something like you can enjoy reading Klosterman even if you have zero overlap of taste, with the added bonus of not spending one cent on new music, although I haven't tested this theory in a while.
― Gary Gets His Tonsure Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 6 March 2022 16:49 (two years ago) link
I'd say music accounts for a quarter of the book, maybe less. I don't think I found anything egregiously at odds with my own memories of the decade...he says there was "an overwhelming consensus" that "Achy Breaky Heart" was terrible; I think that's overstated (really overstated in view of the fact that he doesn't mention critics, although that's the implied consensus). Some critics liked it, and at least one loved it.
― clemenza, Sunday, 6 March 2022 16:59 (two years ago) link