Hey now, there's no need for slander.

and that f*cking "hike up your skirt a little more, and show your world to me" is so misogynistic, hateful, smug aaahaaajhahdsdsa;dfdsal!!!!

he needs to die, and I say this kind of thing rarely.

but without black people, he wouldn't be funky!

I don't know about this whole fetishization of black musicians thing, though.

Just thinking of why I hate DMB is almost as tedious as his music. So I have no answer because I can't be bothered to think of one.

Again, I hate his voice, he sounds like a muppet.

"Your choice, Ms. Spears -- the Neptunes or Dave Matthews?"

"Hmmm..."

Sure, plenty. The production is empty and lifeless with no surprises or innovative ideas, his vocal style is grating and cloying, I hate that "funky acoustic guitar strumming" thing he does, and on and on.

"He does all sorts of music."

This is not a virtue in and of itself.

"Acoustic stuff"

So?

"does good improvisational stuff"

No. Only if you consider hippie-jam-band technique to be "improvisational". (I do not).

"is great live"

Never seen him.

" has respect of fellow musicians like sting,peter gabriel, allanis,sheryl crow,Meredith Brooks,Counting Crows,Santana."

I don't respect a single one of those people - the endorsements are empty.

"All the mebers are great musicians."

Technically proficient /= great.

"And the actual songs are good."

Nope.

"He wouldnt have such a rabid cult fanbase if he wasnt any good."

That's what people said about Hitler.

"The likes of Britney would love to work with him. "

And this is of importance why?

I KNEW the fraternity system is a cult!

like dead.

John Darnielle and Momus -- please write songs like Dave Matthews.

To play devil's advocate (heh) for a second - how could they have "controlled" sales of their first alb?

... Get Dave Matthews to sing on it.

(come on alex you're a killing joke fan)

Why not?

(Im sorry couldnt be helped)

And it could be worse. You could be one of a dillion Athenians who flock to see DMCB. Yes, "David Matthews Cover Band".

???

That's like, you hate me.

Fair enough, Coolio, but it certainly doesn't help their cause. I just happen to find the DMB's music *DREADFULLY, PAINFULLY, UNBEARABLY DULLLLLL*. Couple that with a nation of tobacco-chewin', hackey-sack punting frat boys zealously espousing the band's dubious skills and you have a whole new reason to hate the DMB. Does this mean that I think that *EVERY*one who likes the DMB is a slack-jawed, monobrowed troglodyte? Not necessarily, but to those who are on the fence about them, I'd say this --- RAISE YOUR STANDARDS! There's more fucking interesting music out there....seek it out before you settle for less.

Which is also why all this Dave Matthews hatred from Americans is so delightfully bizarre and hilarious for the rest of us. It's like you guys just decided to pick the most average guy on Earth to focus all your hatred on (kinda like that Gary Larson strip with the guy looking out of his window and seeing a gigantic crowd advancing towards him with signs featuring suitably vague accusations)

Personally, in my most unbiased terms, I dislike DMB because I find the music totally uninspired. I come to loathe them because of the godawful portentousness with which they portray themselves, and with which DMB's most rabid fans have adopted his music as the soundtrack to a generation. Everyone wants meaning and depth in our paltry little lives, but jeez, can't you find something with a little quality to represent that?

I just call the whole genre "fratboy easy-listening."

Because they are the American Coldplay. And as I mentioned on some other thread, because Dave Matthews sings like Adam Sandler!!

This is the greatest post ever.

a. dave matthews
b. creed
c. pearl jam
d. sigur ros
e. any nu-metal band*, take yer pick (*Deftones and Tool excepted)

then a- (dave matthews) will always be the correct choice. though that's not saying much.

1- pearl jam
2- sigur ros
3 - any nu-metal band (maybe switch 2 and 3)
4 - dave matthews
5 - creed

"
Dave Matthews Speaks Out About the War
I hope this letter finds you all well and that in these uncertain times you find moments to be joyful.

I want to speak my mind about this war with Iraq, or I will choke on my conscience.

What is the motivation? Regime change? Shouldn't that be up to the people of the region and the people of Iraq? The only real threat from Saddam Hussein is to his neighbors and none of them support a U.S. invasion. Is it to stabilize the Middle-East? Wouldn't it only do the opposite by causing further death and suffering in a country that has had more than its share?

Is it to weaken Al Qaeda? Saddam Hussein is a genocidal maniac but he is not Al Qaeda. He is certainly more visible though. Is he our target because he is easier to identify than the illusive terrorist network? Surely it is more likely that an attack on Iraq would only strengthen Al Qaeda by feeding Anti-American sentiment. Putting out the fire with gasoline, so to speak. It is certainly not to liberate the people of Iraq who suffer under Hussein's rule, unless we call killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis liberation.

Saddam Hussein is a barbaric murderous dictator. I wish the world were free of him. But the answer is not to bomb this great culture of Iraq out of existence to stop him. Why must the children of Iraq die by the thousands to stop a tyrant? It is not justice. And if we kill him what will we achieve? We will have taken the most unpopular leader in the Middle East and turned him into the greatest martyr radical Islam has ever had. The U.N. weapons inspectors must be allowed to do their job thoroughly and any military action should be internationally agreed upon. We must not allow our government to turn us into a rogue nation.

I fear that our true motivation is about oil and our own flailing economy; about the failure to destroy Al Qaeda and about revenge. It is criminal to put our servicemen and women in harm's way and to put the lives of so many civilians on the line for the misguided frustrations of the Bush administration.

Bottom line: this war is wrong and this war is un-American.

Peacefully submitted,
Dave Matthews"

ps. Who is worse? Dave Matthews Band, Hootie, Shania Twain, Meredith Brooks, Travis,Ocean Colour Scene,Stereophonics, Alannis etc?

But....at the end of the day, DMB's music still bores me to absolute tears.

Dave's voice is something only Alanis' mother could love.

NOOOOOOOO, Anthony! ARGH! Don't say it! I'm melting, melting!

Come to think of it, it does. Travis and the Stereophonics both have at least one song I really like, and they're really not that different from the DMB...

I understand the hatred perfectly, its the same reason we hate DMB.

I know CanCon requirements explain a lot, but how can you not have heard them from car radios or commercials or other involuntary exposure?

I feel my opinion of his music is fairly sincere because I was literally unaware of who he was or what he looked like. I had heard his name in relation to Phish, so I assumed his music probably wasn't even on the radio.

His music always felt icky, like bad generic white guy music from the late 80s somehow mixed with Seal to make for an uncomfortable, displaced feeling of nostalgia and slow-motion blah.

The verses of "The Space Between Us" (the chorus sucks ass)
The "I am no Superman" song
The "drink too much" song

Everything else is completely worthless and unnecessary.

I can't stand it when people say they don't like them because "crash into me talks about looking up girls skirts" when in reality it was put there because Dave improved it once and everyone laughed and it just kind of stuck, what's the big deal? It's nothing compared to any rap, rock, or hip hop group out there.

Dave matthews has an awesome voice, it's different, it's for people who like different things every now and then, don't you people ever get tired of all the singers that sound like either Britney Spears or Scott Stapp? Nobody sounds like Dave, that's why so many people love him.

Dave Matthews Band started out about 13 years, jamming in a bar. They grew so fast because of their awesome live shows and word-of-mouth. Dave is now obviously a millionaire, but he always states how much they owes every bit of their success to their fans. They release an album, whether it be live or a studio recording, every year, for their fans, they tour everywhere all the time for their fans, Dave dances, and the band's still together for their fans.

The DMB is the best band on earth right now, they're very, very talented, and they love their work and their fans. How could you deny the greatness of such a group of people?

I'm a professional singer and I think that DMB doesn't just the big hairy nutsack, they chew and gnaw at it until it tears, causing the testes to spill out in a heaping pile of epididymis and seminal vesicles.

jesus christ, what are you, their publicist? You sound positively zealous in your DMB fundamentalism. Here's a suggestion -- sweeping superlatives and purple prose will *NEVER* convince anyone of anything nor *EVER* win you an argument.

"Nobody sounds like Dave"

Hmm...well, John Mayer certainly does....and he's boring as fuck too!

This is funny for more reasons than I can count.

Do the jazz singers you work with know that you don't consider them to be musicians?

(NOTE: I have often felt bad for the violin player, partly because I felt like he was wasting his talent by playing with DMB but mostly because he looks like the Predator.)

Ah, that explains it then.

Listen, your tiresome insistence that "real musicians know what" you're talking about it is a moot point. Musicians don't make music solely for other musicians. Boring music is boring music, whether your Philip Glass or Kato Kaelin. Technical proficiency on your instrument of choice is no guarantee of substantive *STYLE* (waaaay more important than skill). Sure, maybe you can play scales on your oboe using only your pinky,.....but that doesn't mean anyone really wants to listen to it. Technical proficiency merely makes you a musical 'craftsman,' STYLE makes you an artist....and even then, not necessarily a great one. DMB has style -- I'll admit it -- but they're still dead boring.

Well, no charge, but it seems to me that using terms like "most talented," "best commercialized", "genious [sic]", "incredible", "perfect", "awesome", "eclectic" and, of course "best band on earth right now" sort've overstates it. Calling the Dave Matthews Band "crafstmen" is by no means a compliment.

I am no Superman for you, but I do know one thing, where you are is where I wanna be.

How many times does he repeat that in the fuckin' song? It's practically the whole song. I guess he thought that was really brilliant, huh?

Re: www.ilxor.com hate DMB
I just happen to find the DMB's music *DREADFULLY, PAINFULLY, UNBEARABLY DULLLLLL*. Couple that with a nation of tobacco-chewin', hackey-sack punting frat boys zealously espousing the band's dubious skills and you have a whole new reason to hate the DMB. Does this mean that I think that *EVERY*one who likes the DMB is a ...slack-jawed, monobrowed troglodyte? Not necessarily, but to those who are on the fence about them, I'd say this --- RAISE YOUR STANDARDS! There's more ****ing interesting music out there....seek it out before you settle for less.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), February 11th, 2003

The least this guy could do is get the Simpsons quote RIGHT if he's going to steal it...gotta love a guy who can't even plagiarize properly...

__________________
Driven to Distraction....

Last edited by diana_m41 on February-12th-2003 at 07:52 PM

DMB + "U" = DUMB.

By themselves, in a vacuum, they are incomplete. But with an audience to listen, they've unleashed a whole lot of dumb.

Why are you looking to the T.V. to find decent music?

Say what? I wasn't trying to quote "the Simpsons" at all!

god bless google.
Are we gonna get an invasion of Dave Matthews Freaks & zealots now?

DMB may be loads and loads of fun to play; i don't know either way personally, as i've never had any desire to try. but just because something is fun (and maybe even challenging) to play doesn't necessarily mean it's fun to listen to.

Yngwie flippin' Malmsteen to thread NOW. >P

(and i hate Dave's voice. but that's beside the point.)

I strongly suggest checking out the following:

Christine Goerke (particularly on the National Symphony recording of Britten's "War Requiem")
Chanticleer
Tool
Depeche Mode
Van Halen
Rush
Medeski, Martin and Wood
The Grassy Knoll
Mr. Bungle
Norah Jones
Jill Scott
Angie Stone
Ian Bostridge
Stevie Wonder
Daniel Bedingfield

Actually, there are plenty of examples in Andy's playing where he pulls off a little licks here and there...the guy knew what he was doing for sure. Just because he played a loud, abrasive, solid state amp, doesn't make him a bad player with good "style." He had both.

I can't beleive the amount of morons on that board. I did a search on it and i found that many of them like 'Indie/Alternative' bands that can barely play their instruments, AND WORST OF ALL, They like commercialised Top 40 Music like Britney & Justin Timberlake!!! HAHAHA
Come on people, lets take on these morons!!!!

Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.

How Can ANYONE Rip Dave Matthews then admit to liking manufactured chart pop? We win this argument so easy it hurts.
I cant believe how many nerds are on that board. I saw Guided By Voices once and they were so drunk they could barely play their 2 chord songs. Thats the so called 'Alternative' music Nerds worship.
And as for Britney and Justin....... sheesh.

Hasn't DMB been just as successful as the "manufactured chart pop" only with a different demographic? What, does having a violinist in your group exempt you from getting called a pop band?

Oh Totally, I get your point, and I wasn't trying to argue with you, it's just that I kinda thought the same thing once, but have realized just how good the man was with his instrument.

I am of the school of thought that style AND craftsmanship or skills make a good player. Seriously, very few people are moved by someone like Yngwie Malmsteen or as well by somebody like Jandek. To me it's the combination of physical skills and mental substance that makes someone "good" at an instrument, a totally subjective thing regardless.

D. Boon and Greg Ginn are both pretty skilled guitar players - I'd say the best counter-example would be Billy Childish.

" I dare say that without Killing Joke, most of your precious "heavy sounding" bands wouldn't even exist. Killing Joke have indulged in a myriad of different musical styles and sounds well beyond the monochromatic 'heavy', yet when they choose to go that route, there is no one mightier. To judge Killing Joke by one or two tracks is an excercise in blind-sighted stupidity. Do your homework before submitting an opinion! Moreover, if you're put off by the conceptual/lyrical content of Killing Joke, why not toddle home and slap on a Pixies or Cheap Trick album and celebrate the meaningless and banal. At least Killing Joke have something to say. You may not like it, agree with it...or even understand it....but at least there something of substance there. Killing Joke credit their audience with higher standards and a modicum of intelligence. Try getting that from Korn."

I'd like to think I've mellowed a bit since then.

Your argument about people who've like DMB being the most open-minded about music is completely false in my experience, as the people I know who knew them when they were a jam band playing colleges in upstate New York tend to stick exclusively with the Shawn Colvin/Meredith Brooks/DMB/Hootie and the Blowfish/Sting axis of music and consider U2 to be the outer limits of acceptability. Your argument about them not being exclusively for white middle-class is accurate; they're aimed at black middle-class, too (although few would admit to listening to them, particularly when faced by the nu-soul/back-to-hip-hop mafia).

Alex does have a valid point; one reason why people may be coming down harder on naga than he/she actually deserves is because his initial post reads as Yet Another Fanboy Attack and people tend to want to jump up and down on posts like that until they squeal. (Well, I do anyway.)

You've just spotted another.

Bands that EVERYONE likes

Bands that EVERYONE hates

We have a slogan. Or a new one.

Heya Naga. Me, I lurv Rush, the new album's great. I also think Dave Matthews Band are a blight upon the world, but I would. ;-) Favorite band is My Bloody Valentine -- check them out sometime. Welcome to us. Alex stuck around, you should too.

thanks everyone. i can't say anythingabout DMB that hasn't already been said. well, i can try "shiny-chinned smuggorama overload" but that's not really helpful.

the travis/stereophonics/ocs = dmb/hootie/cunting crows is spot-on, well done. can we all go home now?

What that says about "our" collective tastes, I'm not entirely sure...

Oh well. *sigh*

- "I Shall Be Free No. 10", B. Dylan

Secondly, I think the lyrics are stirring and evocative; they make me feel the emotion that the song is trying to convey. I also think that Dave Matthews is a very honest songwriter - he really seems to feel what he is writing. As to the lyrics being misogynistic, I don't see any evidence.

RE: the fans - I am not an attorney nor am I an accountant; I am not in college presently, and I have never been inside a frat house (personal choice). I also bathe daily, brush my hair, and find patchouli nauseating. I have never been nor will I ever be a hippie.

Enough said on my part.

... all of them mediocre at best.

Why do people hate him? EZ: He sucks.

Who do so many peole like him: EZ2: He sucks.

I swear to the deity of your choice, I was *NOT* quoting "the Simpsons"! I haven't even watched "the Simpsons" since about 1996. Get over it!

DMB and Mayer are rilly nothing alike aside from the "guy with guitar" thing and even that's pushing it given DMB's lush orchestration and Mayer's uh... lack of that.

DMB's earlier stuff rilly was quite unique sounding but ultimately it frustrated me coz every single was "unique" the same way and Crash was as pleasant a song to idle a summer away to as any Belle and Sebastian and most importantly I would FAR prefer DMB to Wilco, GY!BE, Sigur Ros, or any other "dreamy" semi-popular hip alterna-dross out there.

Not that I listen to any really, but.. I mean haven't we gotten over hating a band for its audience? Tho i suspect that the real root of the hate is that fratboy whatever types listen to DMB and feel "deep" and the gulf between the claim of "deep" and the not really that deep followthru or between "musically inventive" and the okay-not-really-that-inventive followthru is what puts foax off -- "Oh my god! People are looking for MUSICAL INNOVATION and getting THIS instead!" when in fact people are looking for something like DMB and getting precisely that.

I mean, fratboys put on Roxy to feel "sexy" -- does that make Roxy Music bad?

Nope. DMB still eats, though. Rather than saying they're better than Godspeed/Sigur etc., I'd prefer to equate them. ;-)

To that freaking hippie, can you not see Dave Mathews Band suck my farty wind?!?! How can you not feel the vibe!!?!

The Rhino Frat Rock box set is much better than any DMB I've ever heard.

What I liked about the song: Well, first of all, these guys are a real band - ie., they can play their instruments, they get a groove going, they are tasteful. The song had a nice loose-limbed, live feeling despite being a studio recording. Unlike a lot of the studio confections on the rock charts, it doesn't have that grisly Dr. Frankenstein after-taste of being patched together in Pro Tools and then zapped into life. (Not to say that there isn't a place for studio confectionery, but it's refreshing to hear alternatives to it.) No doubt these guys can also play their songs well in a live setting, which is a definite plus if you like live music (which I do).

What I didn't like: I mentioned being tasteful as a good thing in the previous paragraph, and to a certain extent it is, but it can also be a bad thing, I think, when it shows that the band is reluctant to take chances. My favorite type of music to see in a live setting is jazz, and there are some similarities between this music and certain types of jazz: the celebration of musicianship, the emphasis on rhythm, soloing over a repeated chord progression. However, none of the solos I heard (and again this is only based on one song, so take this with a grain of salt) really excited me. The soloists seemed reluctant to stretch out and take center stage, so to speak. As a result, the music ended up seeming kind of faceless. You don't hear the individual personalities of the musicians coming through. Perhaps this is an intentional decision to give the group jam priority over the individual expression, but if you're not going to have interesting solos, what exactly is the purpose of repeating a fairly uninteresting chord progression so many times? I think the answer is probably is that this is a form of dance music - because this is a structure that you often find in dance music. The purpose of the long repetitive passages is to give people the opportunity to dance. Which is fine, I guess, if you like to dance, but it can get a bit dull when listening just for the sake of listening. Anyway, that's my take on the music. As for the singing, well, I must admit that Dave Matthew's singing style is a bit mannered for my taste. He is a member of the Eddie Vedder school of masculine emoting through tasteful bellows and groans, except that he occasionally throws in a yodel, which is just odd. The lyrics also do little for me. The central conceit of this song is that he is asking a bartender for the drink of the wine that brought Jesus back to life. There's one nagging flaw with this conceit: namely that nowhere in the legend of Jesus is anything mentioned about any drinks of wine bringing him back to life. So the symbolism doesn't really go anywhere.

Because the first rules and the others do not. Or rather, the first puts me to gentle sleep with a smile on my face, the second puts me to sleep, period, and the third makes me think, "Can't I just listen to some In the Nursery instead?"

Wrong. LISTEN TO MAYER'S VOCALS!!!!! It has nothing to do with the guitar.

-- katie41414442222

Clearly not someone who regularly reads ILM.

Divide and conquer...

Come to think of it, everything else about them kind of fits that sound as well.

AGH! Ohmigod this is so so true. I'm appalled that these things are so common. I had a very hard time finding an acoustic guitar that had an electric pick-up that *wasn't* one of these shitty-sounding models with the plastic body and the little sliders on top. The sound is indeed godawful - really thin and useless. I don't understand why people don't stick with decent wood acoustics and just use good contact mics.

Dan to thread!

At least it's not as bad as Gwen 'n' Moby though.

Further to your question about Dave Matthew’s Band I will attempt to explain why people generally don’t like them and also why these people do not tend to like people who like DMB.

The normal complaint that is levelled at DMB is that they are boring. In this context boring means that they conform (and this is an important word), and their music conforms, to ordinary well worn structures (personally: gruff male archetypes, drummer, bassist, guitarist, singer – normal band structure; musically: verse chorus verse, like say ordinary, eg, Meatloaf songs of the 1970s – dirge is a word which comes up often) made with well worn sounds (over-emoting, brillo-pad vocals, which is to say it sounds like he has nodules on his vocal cords and so sounds a bit rough, like his voice has been sand-papered – trad is another word which comes up). People conflate these two conceptions of ‘ordinary’ (sounds and structures) found in the band’s music with the band’s image to help them paint the band as super-ordinary. Essentially, they are aggressively normal.

(I guess one of the reasons people dislike people who like DMB is for this subscription to aggressive normalness: they perceive that they DMB fans haven’t made a conscious choice because they perceive that they aren’t questioning and that they are automatons.)

Also, Mrs Sinker, a large deal of the antipathy towards DMB fans is brought along to the table by the fact that the people who, statistically, turn out to be DMB fans are also of a group that ‘us’ people don’t like: jocks. So again there is a conflation of images. We end up merging jocks and DMB fans, attributing DMB fans with jock characteristics and vice versa and obviously this bleeds into our perception of the band because at some point or other people forget how to dissociate band from fan. And it doesn’t really help when DM looks like a fan of DMB.

A part of the anger is frustration that music which is similar but slightly ‘better’ (ie different, newer guitar music which isn’t re-tracing old routes, bands with silly names like Man or Astroman? Oxes [note: not Oxen, and no definite article], Shellac) doesn’t get the audience – this is fed by a belief that the DMB fans haven’t listened to our bands and that if they did they would like them. It’s a sort of distrust because we think that they’ve heard DMB liked them alright and thought we don’t need any more music in our life so stopped there. If this is true then it would display a value that we do not know how to handle as of yet: (1) there is an endpoint to music absorption and (2) there is an endpoint to a questing attitude.

Now, I know your son is fond of ‘have fun starting arguments’ which is in direct quarrel with number (2) there so if he can verify that that is part of the distrust and if he’s willing to say it is valid distrust then we might have nailed DMB fans a little, but of course we can’t cast them all into this giant great swirling vortex. Also, it would still leave the problem of finding reasons to hate the band.

I hope this clears some of the trouble you were experiencing up Mrs Sinker. Please pass my regards onto your son.

Yours sincerely,

Dh.

I believe that "The Maker" is Daniel Lanois' song, sometimes called "Eyes of the Maker." The Jerry Garcia Band used to do a lovely version of it.

i also have no time for any of DMB, SR, or GYBE!, which puts me in the same league as Ned. why waste yer time on crap?

Oh. In that case the DMB suck ass and you're all justified in hating them.

hehehe...I demand Alex in NYC posts to this thread!

''Open your minds to the genius of Meredith and Dave Matthews.''

TROLL!

Ontological Crises Anonymous to thread!

I'm way too tired, achey and hungover to respond to this properly, but surely the opinions of a zealous DMB fan are moot anyway, right?

In any case, FUCK YOU, you squirming, corpse-felching MAGGOT!

I was only joking (and this is a 'joke' around these boards).

actually I should have just asked: why do u think DMB is way better than say, ''all indie rock''?

alex in NYC's ans is very pretty.

flash foward to the present day....

somebody started a thread about the Dave Matthews Band. And it was flamed by hordes of DMB Fans...I fear that sometimes soon an "Alex in NYC"-esque DMB fan will begin posting early and often every day, until he becomes the Most Active Poster. And he will post photos of DMB in every thread...and the DMB Fan will demand that we all "Honour the..." (whatever it DMB fans honour) and the world will become a much darker and more horrid place.

(Note to the real Alex in NYC: I'm not busting your nut, I'd *genuinely prefer* a KJ fan over a DMB fan for the post of "most fanatical ILM poster.)

those are incorrect generalizations of "ILMers".

As for majors vs indie. Its irrelevant these days. It depends on what sort of deal they get. Space were on an 'indie' and got shafted didnt they? Im sure theres many other incidents. Indie labels are as likely to be run by greedy bastards as a major.(with some exceptions obviously)

Check that out DMB fans..

Bongos?! Didn't Carter play the bongos at Yoshii's on 5-10-95? Or was that Crater?

Yup.

DMB fans aren't like Jehova's Witnesses

I like the idea of fans of any band riding around on bikes like the Mormons, winning people over via house to house visits.

To be fair, Sarah, you're quite correct in general. You like them and that's what matters, and you shouldn't care what anyone else thinks. But like it or not, other people will have their opinions on the matter and will disagree with you on them if that's what they feel. That's the way things work. From where you're standing, those others are not 'right,' but they're not wrong either.

Then get off your ass and get over there and do it, cowboy.

"The first time I heard him(Dave) I thought he was a black jazz artist.The song I heard (crush) from him and his bandmates was
amazing and had a distinct soulful feel to it, the feel that you don't hear much at all today from bands. Their drummer(carter) has God like drumming skills,amazing live band their just lit from beginning to end.I just got around to picking up their new one Busted Stuff, fucking mindblowing music.
All the musicans bring somthing to the table so your always full ya know?They literally have created their own genre of music and that right there is quite a thrill mate."- Bono ,Showbiz Iraland Maginzine 3-2-03

Is this why we hate dmb?? yah dmb..they suck..riiiiiiiight

Unfortunately I think you just shot yourself in the foot.

P.S(especially the non-dmb fans you white trash pieces of shit)

P.S.S(have you guys ever realize that your just dissing people you will never be i.e Accountants, lawyers, people that go to university)

Ned, like I said I don't care if people like the music or not. That's their opinion. It's when people are prejudiced towards me and other fans that there begins to be a problem. I happen to hate the music of the band Creed, but I don't hate all Creed fans just because they like music that I don't. I have been treated very unfairly at times because I happen to be a DMB fan. A lot of people assume I am a pot-head and that all I do is get drunk and listen to DMB. That's not my life at all. I don't really know of many other bands or artists whose fans get so much hatred. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that DMB fans are some of the most hated fans around and I still don't understand why. Maybe someone could enlighten me?

It's not that I don't like them, its just that I haven't heard a single note from them.

some of the comments are idiotic (if bono likes 'em that must mean something...).

But you know I do the 'smug' thing most of the time anyway cozen, and especially so at the weekends since this place is nearly dead.

You are right. I'll restrain myself.

OK. So you don't like them. I'm sure I don't like some of the same music as you. But that doesn't mean we can't get along, and that is my main point.

I don't really know of many other bands or artists whose fans get so much hatred.

Pretty much EVERY band's fans has negative stereotypes. I've spent most of my life deply into Prince (ergo I MUST be a bisexual, hyper-promiscuous fop obsesed with Jesus) and The Cure (ergo I must think I'm a suicidal vampire fairy). Ask fans of The Smiths what people thought of them, or the Sex Pistols, or Marilyn Manson, or pretty much any band or artist out there.

I got enough crap for liking REM in elementary school, I can't even IMAGINE what I would have gotten for Prince-appreciation (save for the Batman soundtrack, which was cool because it was about Batman). Maybe that's why I didn't really go nuts about pop until college (even though I watched it all the time on tv I only purchased "alternative" albums).

I was being sarcastic as it isn't interesting.

band x likes band y.

that band x is U2 is nothing to me.

(hi ned)

please be reminded i have not said one bad thing about linkin park.

Uh, yay? (To make it clearer, Mark -- I don't care how many awards they've won or how long they've been together or all that crap, what matters about U2 or any other band is what I think of their music. That should be all that matters to you as well. Or do you seriously go around rating bands based on those extraneous factors rather than their music?)

Ned, like I said I don't care if people like the music or not. That's their opinion. It's when people are prejudiced towards me and other fans that there begins to be a problem.

Fair enough, and as Dan has illustrated, that's something that is pretty commonly felt no matter what you're listening to. I will say though that you were 'irritated' when people judged Mr. Matthews and company on the basis of what they had heard via the radio songs -- so clearly you do care somewhat! ;-) I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all, we could all say something similar. And as Dan notes, his response (and mine) aren't to say, "We can't get along because you like DMB," it's to say, "We're not going to agree on this subject -- that means nothing else about anything else, though, or doesn't have to be." Which it sounds like we're all saying anyway.

ergo I must think I'm a suicidal vampire fairy

You don't, Dan? But but but I do! Oh wait...

being a fan, I'm allowed to say that.

oh, sorry

Seen as a verb phrase instead of a adjectival one, this suggests wonders.

ooh! another accidental double entendre!

Listen junior, not only have I invariably seen U2 more times than you've had hot dinners, I've actually sat down and talked to the man, so don't try to school me about his cred. I don't care if JAZ COLEMAN espouses the music of the Dave Mathews Band. Lending creedence to an artist just because someone you respect or admire likes them is no way to establish merit. Hell, I'm a massive fan of Julian Cope, but the records he cites on his website as 'crucial' I usually find nigh on unlistenable. What I can tell you is that to these ears, the music of the DMB is dead fucking boring and deplorably overrated by a nation of whistleheaded frat schmucks who don't know any better. I couldn't give less of a flaming fuckin' fig if Bono likes them -- he likes fuckin' Patti Smith too, and ya don't see me charging out my door to go buy her fuckin' crappy albums.

http://maidenheaven2.tripod.com/mascots/eddie8.jpg

ILX in more addictive and debilitating than crack cocaine shock. I can feel time slowly ceasing to have any meaning.

I think this is the most pathetic thing I've read in years. It's taken me this long to stop laughing at this post and the deeply feeble mind that concocted it. The best thing you can come up with is "you're just jealous that you aren't an accountant"???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

oh yes you do

Cheers,
Gracie in Canada

Oh sweet irony.

Several stores (including ours) were fined, and in Westchetsre, NY ALONE, two record stores were shut down (temporarily or not, I'm not sure) because Matthews objected to the selling of his "bootlegs" -

Nowadays, we call that section the "import" section and are very careful to never use the 'B' word, suspicious of spies and other soulless metermaid types.

My store, for our part, staged a boycott of all Dave Matthews CDs.

Fuck him and his shitty, sterile music.

This is a very good reason to hate anything, actually.

Also, doesn't he have some disease that will cause him to lose his guitar playing sk1llz eventually (I think someone said that to me)? If so, let's give all our money to AIDS research instead.

Jon Williams...that is such an ignorant thing to say. Want to do some research and find the name of this so called disease? I'm actually really curious. Unless it's arthritis...

Alex, excuse me for making a typo. I know it makes me such an idiot...and I know you've probably never made one, am I right?

Cheers again,
Gracie

Most people here are really good at hating. I don't care for Dave Matthews, but there is no reason for wreckless hate
d

Is somebody paying you to say this? Bootlegging has always been one of the most satisfying things about being a fan. Even/especially when you buy a shitty-sounding bootleg (Lou Reed's Blondes Have More Fun!, Australia ca. 1974), there's a great rite-of-passage feeling to entering the realm of psycho-fanhood where you're buying records you know are sub-par that you'll never listen to just because you have to own them. If not for bootlegging, how boring would it have been to be a Joy Division fan in 1985? Bootlegging=fanhood, labels & bands oppose it because they smell money that they're not getting...not because of any "artistic integrity" questions or anything.

...as the googlers always want me to add: "that's just my opinion" ;)

Although, at the time it came out, I thought the breakdown section of "What Would You Say" was kinda cool.

I kinda don't like the way their shows are supposed to be these huge improv spectacles, when in reality they pretty much just trade solos. I've honestly seen more adventurous improv interplay at Roots shows, Sonic Youth shows, even They Might Be Giants shows.

I don't exactly hate them on a Limp Bizkit/Creed actually-makes-me-sick-to-my-stomach level, I just don't particularly like their style of writing/improvising.

Carter Beauford, howevah, I must say is quite a drummer. I think it would be cool if he quit and joined Fishbone. :D

Au contraire, my vehement Canuck. Some argue that everything I've ever written was just one giant typo, but that wasn't my point. I was merely commenting on the exquisite irony of you decrying our collective ignorance, yet mispelling the word in the process. And it wasn't a typo, it was a misspelling (you did it twice).

Hitler had a lot of fans too.

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

Phish sold almost a million tickets to "The Great Went" in 1998. Something tells me this wouldn't happen to a band if people didn't like listening to them.

Maybe those people just don't know any better.

As for your comment about Phish's fans not knowing any better - that is a weak comment coming from someone who in MY opinion doesn't know any better either.

I am also curious to know, since you're so cynical about DMB, as well as other great bands such as U2, Phish, Pearl Jam and Counting Crows...what is it that YOU listen to? And I'm sure you would feel quite justifyed in defending them if I were to insult not only their music, but their very existance?

Cheers yet again,
Gracie

Happens here all the time, Gracie. Alex knows how to handle it, though. ;-)

I am all against jerk CD stores who care nothing about the integrity of the band, nothing about the integrity of the music, have crappy recordings that they way overcharge, and screw the fans for. Bootlegging screws the fans in and of the fact that jerks go to shows, tape it, and then sell it for $60 to some shmuck who thinks he can't get it anywhere else.

Live Music trading: Yes
Bootlegging (ie jerks making money off me, who care nothing about what i feel, they just want a buck): No
d

Cheers,
Gracie

I don't know who brought Hitler into this debate first, sister, but it wasn't me. My invokation of the man (after your comment) was only to demonstrate that love of the masses doesn't necessarily equate a good thing.

I

here, here. trade at will, buyer beware.

i hope this thread will continue into ferever...
dmb is noodling on a cosmic level. and yes, phish do it better, but you know what, it's still boring as fuck. there's very few people whom i even want to hear solo for 10-15 minutes. dmb being at the very bottom of this imaginary list. right next to someone i really dislike less.
if dm is so "anti boot" why is there a thousand boots floating around that sound startlingly similar? oh, wait, nevermind...

gracie, i feel for ya. like i feel for the old dead heads. slightly sorry, slightly jealous that i can't dig what it is you like, but then i feel a little better because of it- it's taste. got it? good.
get it.

sounds like a commercial...

Everything else is completely worthless and unnecessary.

-- Dan Perry (djperr...), February 12th, 2003.

You must be kidding me. These are some of his not so great songs. I am a huge fan of the Dave Matthews band. I am not a jock, or in college or a yuppie or any of the stupid things that you people have listed so far. Feel free to dislike the music and state your opinion as such....but leave me the hell out of it..........and I have yet to see anyone discuss what types of music they DO like..........

As nobody recalls forcing you to be here, quit your complaining and come back with a brain, please.

I mean, christ, post porn, stroke Calz' cock, I mean, ego - ANYTHING - under my name, but do NOT accuse me of being a DMB fan.

"There was a point a couple of years ago where I said, 'Man, I'm just going to do it,'" says Tinsley. "This album is just a natural extension of who I am as a musician and really a natural extension of the Dave Matthews Band, too. For me, it was just an individual journey to just open up a whole other world of music that I hadn't really explored before, like songwriting and singing. The whole experience has just made me a better musician."

Longtime DMB fans will recognize the title track, which Tinsley he wrote prior to joining the band in 1991. It has been a DMB concert staple ever since. Considering the song's history, Tinsley says there was little debate about asking Matthews himself to contribute vocals to the track.

However, Matthews is the only DMB member on Tinsley's disc. For the other material on the 11-song album, Tinsley spent the past year writing (and co-writing with guitarist/songwriter Chris Bruce) and recording. Joining him in the studio were guests Lisa Germano, Doyle Bramhall II, the Dirty Dozen Brass Band, and Corey Harris, among others.

After DMB's summer tour wraps in September, Tinsley plans on hitting the road in support of "True Reflections" with as many of his studio musicians as possible.

"We're just going to have fun -- we've never had a chance to play this music live before," says Tinsley. "And when you play songs live, they continue to grow and evolve and get stronger and better. So, I'm just looking forward to seeing how these songs are going to develop on the road."

Solo projects are a running theme in the DMB camp these days. As previously reported, Matthews' "Some Devil" will be released in the fall. While he hasn't heard the disc yet, Tinsley believes frequent DMB contributor Tim Reynolds is "probably heavily involved."

"Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated."
How can a band be hated if millions buy their albums and go to their concerts? Are U2/Beatles/Bowie/Led Zep bad & hated in your parallel universe too?
As for listening only to bands on major labels, whats up with that? Being on a label is irrelevent to the actual music.

I like imagining that in Josie's universe she hates nothing, since someone else somewhere probably loves it. A very trusting and open-minded soul.

Make them stop teasing me.

um...no. i'd like his money, and that's where it ends.
i don't think i could live with myself knowing that a couple thousand date-rapes occurred to/because of my music...
ok, maybe that's a bit far fetched, but, you get the point. if i'm jealous of anything about dave's, it's his bank account. period.

onto the better fish that need fryin-
"How can a band be hated if millions buy their albums and go to their concerts? Are U2/Beatles/Bowie/Led Zep bad & hated in your parallel universe too?
As for listening only to bands on major labels, whats up with that? Being on a label is irrelevent to the actual music."

ahem,
it was stated before, no taste. that's how. the mindless asses that make up the record buying public account for 7/8 of the industry. no accounting for tastes, i suppose...
btw- the beatles...OVER-RATED.
zep- good, to a point then start backsliding.
U2- ditto. but, please, none of the mid 80's U2. damn those overly political stances...
bowie- can't slag a man that keeps contemporary. even at his worst, he's still a far cry better than most ever get. including DAVE.

for those that just skip the top of this post, here's reader's digest version...
DMB STILL BLOWS BAGS OF DICK THROUGH THE SACK.
case closed, holmes.

How can I be jealous of something I think is shit?

how dare you put down a group of musicians for displaying their talent?

Precisely.

You 'music fans' here can keep your alternative rock rubbish like Nirvana , Pearl jam , Sonic Youth and Pixies and leave the genius of real music like Dave Matthews to the millions of real music fans worldwide.

That's the idea, I think.

falling asleep, apparently.

''Do any of you actually go to college?''

making assumptions now are we?

I went to a college here in Virginia, so of course, DMB was extremely popular there. This omnipresence is one of the main reasons why people hate him so much.

wow...
this is so fraught with idiocy, i just can't bear to tear it apart...

"genius", "real music", "music fans"
need i go on?

DMB fans are "real" music fans, how, exactly?; (ie. how does this differ from a "fake" music fan? How does one know that they are a "fake" music fan? Does a "fake" music fan even exist? Wouldn't a music fan be a music fan regardless of what other people think?) And where does the DMB get off declaring the "reality status" of other people? Who died and declared them to be (God|arbiters of taste|definers of reality)?

Yeah, there are a couple of women in my company that like DMB because they think he is hot -- wtf??? Is he like the Sting of the new millenia?

my day, ruined.

Shh, Nicole, you're giving it away!

Lynn, Danielle, etc. -- yeah, there are plenty of cheap shots on this thread and I've delivered a few. But what it all boils down to for a lot of us is this -- we just don't find his music interesting in the slightest, and in some cases we just outright hate it. This has nothing to do with jealousy over his success or how much he sells or anything like that, and I have to say I think it's a bit sad that you're always constantly resorting to that argument, or so it seems. You should be arguing from the strength of whether or not you like the music first and foremost. My own passion for the groups I love -- My Bloody Valentine, the Walkabouts and so forth -- is just as strong as yours is for DMB, I've no doubt of it. But trying to argue that we should like DMB because of their sales or the size of their fanbase is like arguing we should all like McDonald's because they're the biggest in the business. Do you apply that line of thinking to the rest of your life? I'm guessing not.

The other thing that's strange -- and a bit amusing -- is that you're coming in here to defend DMB (not a problem there), shocked by the idea that people might disagree with you (that IS a problem), demanding in some cases that we all leave you alone with our opinions (have we been invading DMB fan boards or something? you all came here, and you didn't have to post or read anything!) and basically doing nothing to convince us of anything else other than the fact that you really really like DMB. Which is great. I don't, neither do a lot of other people here, and we don't have to change our minds because you say so. I'm not expecting to change YOUR mind with my thoughts! That would be pointless.

And if you say, "But if you just listen to the music!" Well, I have, I still remember when I got a copy of Under the Table to review almost ten years ago at the paper I was doing music reviewing for at the time. Didn't like it then, everything I've heard from him since has been to my ears anonymous, boring and dull. I'm sure everyone else here who has expressed similar opinions has had similar experiences. Choosing to write off our own encounters with his music as being nothing but close-minded jealousy or annoyance would be just the same as if we said -- in all seriousness, regardless of whatever frat-guy/lawyer jokes have been made -- that you only listen to DMB because they were successful, because they had a huge fanbase, as opposed to whether or not you actually enjoyed the music.

If you want to take the random jokes (and I'm not pretending everything here has been brilliant, certainly not from me) in all seriousness and get on your high horse about it every time, well, that's your worry and not ours. The fact that we haven't seen an ounce of humor from your end of things unfortunately just makes you all seem like you're so insistent or incredulous about others not being fans that you're almost, well, comical -- and that's why my crack about being 'insecure,' in that those who speak the loudest often seem to be hiding something.

And there you go.

--I appreciate the post Ned, points well made.

No, because of abject ennui. The music of the Dave Matthews Band bores me to absolute tears. Sorry, but it does. If you bothered to expand your horizons a bit more, you'd hear how yawnsome and ordinary their music quite irrefutably is.

Yer welcome, Danielle. Personally I think humor about my favorite bands is one of the things that keeps them human and keeps my own thoughts from being too full of themselves, but that is me. ;-) Stick around the boards, opinionated people always welcome. As Alex in NYC notes far above, he came here in very similar circumstances.

With all due respect, Allison, it seems kind of disingenuous of you to accuse other people of being haters just because they don't like one band when earlier you wrote this: "First of all, this is REAL music. Besides underground stuff, what bands actually make music that is worth listening to?" So you basically hate all popular music except for DMB, and then you accuse people of being haters just because they don't like DMB?

-PS. teletubbies kick ass.

--Awwww thanks. Apology accepted.

*shrug* Why do we not like anything? You've heard bands that just bore you, right? They don't do anything for you, they just seem pretty lazy and dull? That's about how I feel about DMB, everything I've heard from them seems really undramatic, unexciting, bland. I can't put it any more plainly than that, there's no excitement, no beauty, no theatricality, no innovation, for me at least.

Telling me they're the greatest thing ever, well, that's opinion. Telling me that it's "REAL music" and implying that I don't like them means I don't like music (real or not), that's an attitude I admit hating.

I haven't seen a live performance of them, no. I can't say I will either -- I have bills to pay, things to save for, and other shows I would want to see more than them. If I can't get any excitement from their music in studio, or what live material I've heard -- and I've heard enough over time, from various sources -- then I don't see any reason to pursue it further. Should someone play a DVD of theirs at me one day, I'll take note of it, but there are other DVDs I'd rather buy. Even if I did hear something that way, though, there's no guarantee that I'd change my mind any more on the matter.

Sure, I've gone through similar experiences like yours, I think we all have -- hearing something that initially just grates or annoys but eventually wins you over. I think that's natural, healthy even. But like I said above, I've gone on for ten years now with his music meaning nothing to me, and the older I get the more I want to concentrate on listening to other things that do capture my interest, that stir my soul and send more, instead of trying to spend time and/or money dealing with something that hasn't worked for me at all. That, I think, is just part of being human.

Well, my fave all time band ever is pretty obscure in terms of the mainstream -- My Bloody Valentine, an Irish/English group from the mid eighties through the early nineties. Fave album, fave song, fave concert, all them down the line. Second fave band is the Chameleons, a Manchester band from the eighties who recently reunited and are hopefully still together though I've been hearing some odd news. In terms of more famous acts, I'd name all sorts of characters, but I'm a product of my time in many ways, so up near the top would be Depeche Mode, the Cure, New Order (and Joy Division for sure), the Pet Shop Boys, the Smiths, Prince and many others. And definitely the Smashing Pumpkins, much to everyone's annoyance around here. ;-) Then there's other obscure bands like the Walkabouts, Disco Inferno, Marc Almond's solo material (at least in the States), older bands like T. Rex, older singers like Scott Walker and David Bowie, etc. etc. Newer things, I don't have too many bands per se I obsess over as much, but that list can go on too -- very much enjoy Timbaland and Missy Elliott as producers and often performers, though. I sorta more appreciate the Neptunes now as producers but I still think they're astonishingly overrated. Then there's the more obscure drone stuff and random newer electronic acts and unknown goth things and random noise projects from New Zealand and my friends with bands like Celesteville and the Minor Thirds and Lance Lockarm and the International Telepaths and...

Ned, why do I feel like you're our camp counselor all of a sudden? ;)

;-) My friend, think of it this way -- isn't it better to talk than insult? :-)

I'm a Dave Matthews Band fan and I cant stand Hootie. All of you that are dissing Dave and his band, obviously haven't given him a chance. Actually try to listen to them then you may discover that they aren't bad. Dont judge them without knowing what they are all about. They are making millions and usually boring music doesn't do that. The reason for that is because they are great musicians. I love all kinds of music so dont even try judging the fans either. You dont know them or me you have no right to say stuff about us. Sure some of you may be offended about his one line "hike up your skirt a little more and show the world to me" come on its not nearly as bad as half the rap that is played twice or sometimes 3 times as much as what Dave gets played on the radio.

1. As mentioned above, there are many, many different topics on this board, and to imagine this thread as representative of the entire board, and everyone who posts here is, though maybe an easy mistake to make, stil a mistake.

2. This board is populated by many, many different people. Some of them are well-known and well-regarded musicians, and others are w-k and w-r writers. Some people on this board write for nationally-distributed periodicals, and some have even published their own books. Some here are probably preparing to celebrate the purchase of their 10,000th CD, so it is wise to know who you are talking to before making accusations.

3. If you want to convince us to love any band at all, it is better to state what you like about the group, and it helps to be very specific. Name particular songs, particular moments in songs, and why they make you happy.

4. Its good to be aware of the nature of your language. To say a band is "the best" is to implicate other bands as somehow being worse, even ones you have not heard. On the other hand, to say you like a particular band is quite different.

5. Many on this board are open to pop music, even the "fake" stuff. Why? Well, here is an example: I like some Rap, but I am unimpressed by the music of 50 Cent. However, millions do love his music, and I tend to wonder why. Since I am actually curious, I do my best to hear his music, and try to understand why anyone would like it. Sometimes when I go through this process, my mind is changed (as it was in the case of Aaliyah). In other cases, I continue to dislike the particular music (I cant get past 50s monotone, and his mealy-mouthed delivery, and his productions seems uninspired), but I understand why someone else would like it (some of those tracks could be fun to hear in a club, and his image probably plays an important role as well). Coming to terms is an important process of making opionions and expressing them. If you find yourself asking "why would anyone in their right mind listen to this?", you have to do research and answer that question first before dismissing the music.
(id would actually be interested to see some of the prime DMB hatahs on this board do that ;-)
6. Lastly, the idea of a band or musician being "real" or "fake" does not hold much sway here. What makes an artist "fake" or "real"?
- Clothing? But both Britney and DM are aware of what they are wearing, and what image they are trying to project, and that self-awareness makes it hard to say one is more "real" than the other (this goes for Pavement too ya'll). Our culture certainly has definitions about what looking "real" is, but, if you try to fit these definitions self-consciously, couldn't that make you "fake"?
- Is an artist singing his or her own songs more "real" than an artist who doesnt? Before the advent of rock, it was very common for artists to sing or play the songs of others. Is Miles Davis fake? Talentless? Whatever you think of his music, it did impact the DMB. He is one of the inventors of fusion, meaning one of the first to combine jazz, rock and pop, which is what the DMB does, in their own way.
- If it is more "real" to be a great technical player", well, not all of the best artists were or are great technical players. To use Miles Davis as an example again, he is not considered, by many jazz aficionados, to be one of the great technical trumpeters. He could not play very quickly compared to many, and he was weak with higher notes. He used his technique, however, to great adavantage, and some of his best and most innovative music came out of his acceptance of his limitations. He knew he couldnt play fast like Dizzy Gillespie, so he focused on making music suited to his style. So again, technique is not everything, the results are more important. Additionally, not all of the best music is made with intruments. Electronic music, in its various forms, has been around since least the 50s, and electronic instruments have been around since the turn of the century. Many predate the electric guitar, so to say that they are "fake", or that the music made with them is "fake" sounds odd to those who are aware of this history. Each style of electronic music, whether it is Musique Concrete, or Acid House, has its own history, its own reasons for existing, and, most importantly, its own possibility of pleasing ears, of meaing something, of even, dare I say, changing lives, even in the same way that DMB does. Its all a matter of coming to terms. Additionally, every piece of music that has been recorded has been affected by technology. Even if I were to do an album of acoustic guitar and singing (more "real", right?), the sound of the album, and therefore how you perceive it, will be affected by what microphones I use, and what medium the music was placed on (tape, my computer, etc.). Rock bands, for years, have been, for the most part, spending ages in the studio, cutting and splicing, tweaking and filtering, to hone their product, and this part of the process is just as important as the songs and performances. Rock music, in the sudio at least, is usually just as produced and manufactured as pop music. At the end of the process, it sounds like 4 or 5 people were in a room playing music together at the same time, but this is usaully not the case, especially when the band is rich and famous and can afford to take their time.

Nobody is perfect, and it is a challenge to discuss any topic with the ideals listed above constantly in mind...

I am going to rest and then get on to my feelings RE DMB...

Then I remember that DeRogatis likes DMB and I'm torn between two taste gestures.

One of these days I'll get around to listening to the music again so I can decide if I like them based on something other than indirect considerations but meanwhile Ned and Aaron need to lighten the fuck up and *listen* for a change to the points that foax are making.

I'm talking about the actual EQ/mixing/micing of the drum. Listening closely is the exact opposite of what needs to be done in order to hear what I'd like to hear. I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong w/the drumming (or any other aspect of DMB), just that it doesn't appeal to me.

Not all music requires in your face parts. The drums don't need to "kick" on all the songs, just as the bass doesn't need to "thump" on all the songs. It's called balance...give one instrument the lead part and everything else just helps them out.

True, although you kind of derided your point: I don't think something is balanced if one instrument has the lead. I listen to tons of mellow stuff--I don't need something to be loud and aggressive to affect me. What I'm saying is that the drums NEVER kicks, the bass NEVER thumps. There's no funk, no heavy rhythm, no swinging groove, no woozy psychedelia, no sublime harmonies, no nothin' that I like. It all just seems very watered-down.

Pretty much EVERY band's fans has negative stereotypes

Amen! And just to prove it, I shall name some of my absolute favorite musical artists and give you the stereotypes (all false, mind you) that come along with them:

Duran Duran, Scritti Politti, Tears for Fears:  I am some former teenybopper who's also a holdover from the '80s. I wear lots of pink, frilly things, like to read old issues of Smash Hits, and talk like a Valley Girl IRL.

The Cure, Depeche Mode, Belfegore, Siouxsie & the Banshees:  I am a goth (as opposed to a Visigoth, which is something completely different) who is nothing but sour and darkness. I wear nothing but black, look like the undead, write bad, melodramatic poetry, and spend my days moping about.

David Sylvian, Bryan Ferry:  I am nothing but creaking bones. I cannot handle "real rock & roll" (obviously wrong as I'm also a huge Nirvana fan), but rather listen to soft, mellow songs instead.

And yes, I love U2 as well. I'm in the minority here, obviously, but I do quite like U2's songs. But that doesn't mean I'm going to follow every little thing Bono says and agree with it. I mean, he's sung the praises of Destiny's Child, for Pete's sake, and I'm absolutely in no way even remotely inclined to try them out.

Oh yes, and to all the Dave Matthews Band fans who might still be reading this thread: You think YOU'VE gotten grief over being fans of the band. Huh. At least many music critics and most of the mainstream music press seem to take your favorite band seriously. One of my biggest obsessions has been with Duran Duran -- they've never gotten a single positive review ever, as far as I know. Not only that, they get lampooned by pretty much everyone in the music press (save for the ones who happen to post here). I've taken a lot of shit for being a Duran fan, but that hasn't stopped me from being a fan. In fact, it's strengthened my fanhood tremendously.

Presently, seeing as though I've matured a bit, someone can tell me they don't like any one of the artists I adore and I wouldn't have a problem with that. So long as the individual's not saying anything bad about ME, PERSONALLY (which I have not seen in this thread), I don't mind.

That's a bit rich, Sterling.

Heaven forbid some people think "DAVE" is shit! They obviously haven't heard him, or or or are jealous, or or or are arrogant and mean, they couldn't possibly just think his music is total fucking wank, oh no, there must be some outrageous ulterior motive, maybe a big corporation or nike shoes or george w or a foetus or heres whatever yeah dave matthews band rocks.

I'm sure I've said this here before, but whatever. Any zealous declarations of fandom (i.e. "Killing Joke Uber Alles!" or "DMB RULES!") will immediately render any opinion you could submit moot, as you're subtracted any semblance of objectivity from your argument. Moreover, statements like "DMB play REAL music and you're just jealous" is as effective an approach as "my Dad can beat up YOUR Dad!" It's pointless and devoid of any real merit in the course of a debate.

Yes, taste is indeed all relative, but you still have to be able to back up your arguments with more than that. Convince me that you've listened to a myriad other artists and still come back to DMB and you'll be waging a stronger campaign to win me over.

A rare occasion when I would urge you to listen to Bono, Dee.

*bongo solo*

You seems to be hedging your bets. Which is it: do the drums kick? or is it unnecessary for them to do so?
I still think you're misunderstanding me--I'm speaking purely from a engineering/producing perspective. And it's not just the drums; everything seems so tame. There's no sonic distinctiveness to anything. Again, there's nothing inherently wrong w/that, it's just not my--and I'm guessing many others'--cup of tea.

Millar OTM

And should bands be liked by everybody? I dont see how. Bands should be an acquired taste. They shouldnt be like Coca Cola where its marketed for everyone to like. I find the appeal of DMB is that its not marketed like that, it is out of the mainstream.
Most fans arent buying the albums and going to concerts because of mtv/radio hits. And also the fact the music is great and is different to anything else out there.

http://www.mtv.com/news/photos/l/limp_bizkit01/flipbooks/images/flip3.jpg

keep rollin', baby!