― BUFFY THE VAMPIRE, Monday, 25 November 2002 15:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Monday, 25 November 2002 15:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 25 November 2002 15:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
Yesterday I saw the back of the Rapeman Sub-Pop 7", and that reminds me of why I love Albini: flat-tops!
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 15:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Monday, 25 November 2002 15:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
Hahahahaha, the guy hardly touches beer! And he gave up smoking cigarettes after the heart attack.
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 15:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevie (stevie), Monday, 25 November 2002 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
chances are, albini's engineering some record with loud and abrasive guitars and really well mic'ed drums.m.
― msp, Monday, 25 November 2002 16:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Monday, 25 November 2002 16:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 16:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Monday, 25 November 2002 16:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
seriously i was a mayo h8r until i discovered the goodness of home-made varieties.
i saw steve smoking after rapeman btw...
― gygax!, Monday, 25 November 2002 16:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
OMG, WHERE?!?!?!?!?!?
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 16:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax!, Monday, 25 November 2002 16:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nathalie (nathalie), Monday, 25 November 2002 16:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 25 November 2002 17:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
It is called the problem with music
the problem with music by steve albini excerpted from Baffler No. 5 Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end, holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed.
Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says, "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim it again, please. Backstroke."
And he does, of course.
I. A&R Scouts
Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff a high-profile point man, an "A&R" rep who can present a comfortable face to any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and Repertoire," because historically, the A&R staff would select artists to record music that they had also selected, out of an available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly.
These guys are universally young [about the same age as the bands being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground rock credibility flag they can wave. Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at Touch and Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to Rip, Kerrang and other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their ranks as well.
There are several reasons A&R scouts are always young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be "hip" to the current musical "scene." A more important reason is that the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll experiences.
The A&R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better to promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous experience with a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their creative process, he probably even believes it.
When he sits down with the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can tell them with all sincerity that when they sign with company X, they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that great, gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast.
By now all rock bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle aged ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A&R guy, the band will say to themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of the reasons he was hired.
These A&R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on.
The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding little "memo," is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band sign it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength.
These letters never have any term of expiration, so the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another label or even put out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.
One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all,' A&R rep, on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises (something he did with similar effect to another well-known band), and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A&R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would consider it.
The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity.
II. There's This Band
There's this band. They're pretty ordinary, but they're also pretty good, so they've attracted some attention. They're signed to a moderate-sized "independent" label owned by a distribution company, and they have another two albums owed to the label.
They're a little ambitious. They'd like to get signed by a major label so they can have some security—you know, get some good equipment, tour in a proper tour bus—nothing fancy, just a little reward for all the hard work.
To that end, they got a manager. He knows some of the label guys, and he can shop their next project to all the right people. He takes his cut, sure, but it's only 15%, and if he can get them signed then it's money well spent. Anyway, it doesn't cost them any thing if it doesn't work. 15% of nothing isn't much!
One day an A&R scout calls them, says he's "been following them for a while now," and when their manager mentioned them to him, it just "clicked." Would they like to meet with him about the possibility of working out a deal with his label? Wow. Big Break time.
They meet the guy, and y'know what—he's not what they expected from a label guy. He's young and dresses pretty much like the band does. He knows all their favorite bands. He's like one of them. He tells them he wants to go to bat for them, to try to get them everything they want. He says anything is possible with the right attitude. They conclude the evening by taking home a copy of a deal memo they wrote out and signed on the spot.
The A&R guy was full of great ideas, even talked about using a name producer. Butch Vig is out of the question—he wants 100 g's and three points, but they can get Don Fleming for $30,000 plus three points. Even that's a little steep, so maybe they'll go with that guy who used to be in David Letterman's band. He only wants three points. Or they can have just anybody record it [like Warton Tiers, maybe—cost you 5 or 10 grand] and have Andy Wallace remix it for 4 grand a track plus 2 points. It was a lot to think about.
Well, they like this guy and they trust him. Besides, they already signed the deal memo. He must have been serious about wanting them to sign. They break the news to their current label, and the label manager says he wants them to succeed, so they have his blessing. He will need to be compensated, of course, for the remaining albums left on their contract, but he'll work it out with the label himself. Sub Pop made millions from selling off Nirvana, and Twin Tone hasn't done bad either: 50 grand for the Babes and 60 grand for the Poster Children—without having to sell a single additional record. It'll be something modest. The new label doesn't mind, so long as it's recoupable out of royalties.
Well, they get the final contract, and it's not quite what they expected. They figure it's better to be safe than sorry and they turn it over to a lawyer—one who says he's experienced in entertainment law—and he hammers out a few bugs. They're still not sure about it, but the lawyer says he's seen a lot of contracts, and theirs is pretty good. They'll be getting a great royalty: 13% [less a 10% packaging deduction]. Wasn't it Buffalo Tom that were only getting 12% less 10? Whatever.
The old label only wants 50 grand, and no points. Hell, Sub Pop got 3 points when they let Nirvana go. They're signed for four years, with options on each year, for a total of over a million dollars! That's a lot of money in any man's English. The first year's advance alone is $250,000. Just think about it, a quarter-million, just for being in a rock band!
Their manager thinks it's a great deal, especially the large advance. Besides, he knows a publishing company that will take the band on if they get signed, and even give them an advance of 20 grand, so they'll be making that money too. The manager says publishing is pretty mysterious, and nobody really knows where all the money comes from, but the lawyer can look that contract over too. Hell, it's free money.
Their booking agent is excited about the band signing to a major. He says they can maybe average $1,000 or $2,000 a night from now on. That's enough to justify a five week tour, and with tour support, they can use a proper crew, buy some good equipment and even get a tour bus! Buses are pretty expensive, but if you figure in the price of a hotel room for everybody in the band and crew, they're actually about the same cost. Some bands (like Therapy? and Sloan and Stereolab) use buses on their tours even when they're getting paid only a couple hundred bucks a night, and this tour should earn at least a grand or two every night. It'll be worth it. The band will be more comfortable and will play better.
The agent says a band on a major label can get a merchandising company to pay them an advance on t-shirt sales! Ridiculous! There's a gold mine here! The lawyer should look over the merchandising contract, just to be safe.
They get drunk at the signing party. Polaroids are taken and everybody looks thrilled. The label picked them up in a limo.
They decided to go with the producer who used to be in Letterman's band. He had these technicians come in and tune the drums for them and tweak their amps and guitars. He had a guy bring in a slew of expensive old vintage microphones. Boy, were they "warm." He even had a guy come in and check the phase of all the equipment in the control room! Boy, was he professional. He used a bunch of equipment on them and by the end of it, they all agreed that it sounded very "punchy," yet "warm."
All that hard work paid off. With the help of a video, the album went like hotcakes! They sold a quarter million copies!
Here is the math that will explain just how fucked they are:
These figures are representative of amounts that appear in record contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the scenario look bad, since real-life examples more than abound. Income is underlined, expenses are not.
Advance: $250,000 Manager's cut: $37,500 Legal fees: $10,000 Recording Budget: $150,000 Producer's advance: $50,000 Studio fee: $52,500 Drum, Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $3,000 Recording tape: $8,000 Equipment rental: $5,000 Cartage and Transportation: $5,000 Lodgings while in studio: $10,000 Catering: $3,000 Mastering: $10,000 Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc expenses: $2,000
Video budget: $30,000 Cameras: $8,000 Crew: $5,000 Processing and transfers: $3,000 Offline: $2,000 Online editing: $3,000 Catering: $1,000 Stage and construction: $3,000 Copies, couriers, transportation: $2,000 Director's fee: $3,000
Album Artwork: $5,000 Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $2,000
Band fund: $15,000 New fancy professional drum kit: $5,000 New fancy professional guitars (2): $3,000 New fancy professional guitar amp rigs (2): $4,000 New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $1,000 New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $1,000 Rehearsal space rental: $500 Big blowout party for their friends: $500
Tour expense (5 weeks): $50,875 Bus: $25,000 Crew (3): $7,500 Food and per diems: $7,875 Fuel: $3,000 Consumable supplies: $3,500 Wardrobe: $1,000 Promotion: $3,000
Tour gross income: $50,000 Agent s cut: $7,500 Manager's cut: $7,500
Merchandising advance: $20,000 Manager's cut: $3,000 Lawyer's fee: $1,000
Publishing advance: $20,000 Manager's cut: $3,000 Lawyer's fee: $1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 = $3,000,000 gross retail revenue Royalty (13% of 90% of retail): $351,000 Less advance: $250,000 Producer's points: (3% less $50,000 advance) $40,000 Promotional budget: $25,000 Recoupable buyout from previous label: $50,000 Net royalty: (-$14,000)
Record company income: Record wholesale price $6.50 x 250,000 = $1,625,000 gross income Artist Royalties: $351,000 Deficit from royalties: $14,000 Manufacturing, packaging and distribution @ $2.20 per record: $550,000 Gross profit: $710,000
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.
Record company: $710,000 Producer: $90,000 Manager: $51,000 Studio: $52,500 Previous label: $50,000 Agent: $7,500 Lawyer: $12,000 Band member net income each: $4,031.25
The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 millon dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month.
The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige.
The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their t-shirts yet. Maybe the t-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys.
Some of your friends are probably already this fucked. http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html Steve Albini is a much sought-after producer and founding member of eighties punk band Big Black. http://www.dangpow.com/~landed/bigblack/ more on Big Black
― Jahsonic, Monday, 25 November 2002 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 17:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 November 2002 17:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nathalie (nathalie), Monday, 25 November 2002 17:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 17:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Callum (Callum), Monday, 25 November 2002 18:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 November 2002 18:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Callum (Callum), Monday, 25 November 2002 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 19:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Callum (Callum), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
''Maybe GYBE should try writing songs. I mean, if Mogwai can do it...''
they are not v good at it callum.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Callum (Callum), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Callum (Callum), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Callum (Callum), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jones (actual), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 25 November 2002 20:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Callum (Callum), Monday, 25 November 2002 20:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 25 November 2002 20:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 25 November 2002 20:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 25 November 2002 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
um, he's not just a recording engineer sundar. shellac, rapeman and big black were/are good rock bands.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 November 2002 20:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 25 November 2002 21:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 November 2002 21:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 25 November 2002 22:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
oh... don't forget the record buttons! and those level knobs! oh shit... and the pan knob!
(really tho... all respect due...)m.
― msp, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 03:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 04:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 04:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― E-to-the-Izzo, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
I'm just wondering, I mean, I like some of Albini's stuff as a guitarist, and I certainly own no shortage of Albini-produced/recorded/engineered alb's, but I buy those to hear the band, not the Bean.
I mean, I wouldn't eat burnt fries just because they were made with PEI spuds.
― E-to-the-Izzo, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
― E-to-the-Izzo, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
Skronk!
― E-to-the-Izzo, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
sundar you are needed on those threads about Pop processes and performers.....It looks like you'd be on the 'Pop Personalities! They're GrrrrrrrrATE!' side of things, since there's an implication from the above that the engineering/musician thing should be just be a backroom work-like function? Or have I just misinterpreted a joke?(I'm not having a go here - I'm genuinely curious....)
― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 17:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
― albert, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 21:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
you're kidding, right? his are the dryest drums i can think of.
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 22:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax!, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 22:38 (twenty-one years ago) link
oh no it's INDIE!
― gygax!, Tuesday, 26 November 2002 22:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
been reading the luke haines book where he speaks fondly about steve albini (and NO ONE ELSE at all ever), which got me thinking about that 2+2 thread where albini answered a bunch of questions about his career. i read all through it a few years back and im sure he spoke about luke haines/auteurs but i can't find it on there, any ilxors remember?
― NI, Monday, 18 May 2009 12:52 (fourteen years ago) link
Albini and gf do a lot of work for charity, talk about it, are hampered by US postal service
― Dark, promiscuous five-year-old (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 10:30 (fourteen years ago) link
that is so fucking inspiring
not the post office security crap, albini's secret santa thing
― a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 10:37 (fourteen years ago) link
TO THE ONE TRUE SANTA ABOVE, THIS IS MY etc.
that is an awesome thing to do. Silly postal service.
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 11:40 (fourteen years ago) link
The couple contacted U.S. Rep. Danny Davis, D-Ill., who told them he would look into the post office's policy change. But after talking to postal officials, Davis decided he agreed with the policy change.
"Better to be safe than sorry, that what my momma used to tell us," Davis said. "You can't be too protective."
Well... Yes, you can.
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 15:13 (fourteen years ago) link
That distinctive metallic chingety-ching guitar sound that Albini gets on 'Kerosene' etc... from now on I will only ever hear that as the sound of badly-mic'ed sleigh bells.
― The bugger in the short sleeves (NickB), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link
aw that's a real nice thing steve.
― IT WASN'T NOT FUNNY! (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 16:05 (fourteen years ago) link
er, I thought Albini was a jerk. CONFUSING
― lukevalentine, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 16:08 (fourteen years ago) link
i met him once when shellac played my friend's wedding and he was super nice and polite, even talked with their parents and everything.
― IT WASN'T NOT FUNNY! (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 16:11 (fourteen years ago) link
Line-up for next week's Letters to Santa benefit in Chicago. Second City has about 200 seats, so it's a nice, intimate place to see bands. I saw Shellac there at 3 a.m. a few years ago, for an audience of about 50; saw Tweedy, Robbie Fulks, and Jason Molina as well. The Blisters is Tweedy's kid's band--maybe 12 years old, now.
Again. Again. Again.24 hours of improvisation and music. Second City ETC 1608 N Wells St Chicago, ILAll-ages$15 for entire 24 hoursTickets available at the door only.Tuesday December 15 6pm through Wednesday December 16 6pmhttp://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=146133034046&ref=tsAuction items, raffle prizes, music and funny
Confirmed Special Guests7pm Jeff Tweedy10pm Robbie FulksMidnight Asssscat with Horatio Sanz & Matt Walsh with Chicago Guests3am Flash Mob Marching Band6am Bonnie Prince BillyNoon Nina Nastasia2pm The Mountain Goats4:30pm The Blisters
― Action Orientation (Eazy), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 16:14 (fourteen years ago) link
haha, Shellac plays weddings? wow. but yeah, it seems like Albini likes (or liked) being provocative, but most people who work with him seem to love the guy.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 16:26 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah basically my friends are super fans and his wife to be just emailed bob weston i think and ended up chatting with them about it...they basically had to pay enough to cover the opening touring band's room & board (had a band from NZ on the shellac tour) but anyway it worked out with their schedule and it was really fun, my old band got to open...
they played most of "la grange" and about 30 second of "shout at the devil" wish i recorded that set
― IT WASN'T NOT FUNNY! (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 16:29 (fourteen years ago) link
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9109/stevealbini02dx3.jpg
― too shart (am0n), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 16:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Steve Albini's cookery blog..
http://mariobatalivoice.blogspot.com/
― Night Nurse with Wound (Jack Battery-Pack), Friday, 10 June 2011 11:04 (twelve years ago) link
"I have also successfully cooked for our cats."
classic!
― Night Nurse with Wound (Jack Battery-Pack), Friday, 10 June 2011 11:05 (twelve years ago) link
I like how if you go back to the first few entries it reads like the blandest most uninspired cooking blog ever - think there might have been rather a lot of feet-finding here
his 'great mate' Luke Haines just started one as well, can't quite figure out how much his recipes are trolling (unless you're Paul Weller)
― Beth Gibbons & Foreskin Man (DJ Mencap), Friday, 10 June 2011 12:52 (twelve years ago) link
Now that is worth bookmarking!
― Mark G, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:03 (twelve years ago) link
lol yeah I subscribed to that one
― a fucking stove just fell on my foot. (Colonel Poo), Friday, 10 June 2011 13:07 (twelve years ago) link
he sure does make a lot of pasta
― call all destroyer, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:12 (twelve years ago) link
Love how all of Albini's hobbies - online poker! cooking blog! - reveal him to be the nice, normal guy his reputation doesn't always convey. Though I think he's mellowed a lot as he creeps toward 50.
Now, an Ian MacKaye cooking blog, that would be a surprise.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:21 (twelve years ago) link
I remember when Fugazi did a recipe column for Maximum Rock'n'Roll and it was for fucking oatmeal, no joke.
― NickB, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:24 (twelve years ago) link
The Haines food blog is fucking great.
― oppet, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:29 (twelve years ago) link
Luke Haines?
― kornrulez6969, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:41 (twelve years ago) link
x-post
Ian M.'s been a vegetarian for awhile and a parent for a few years so maybe he could do some interesting blog posts
― curmudgeon, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:43 (twelve years ago) link
in some recent henry rollins interview (on wtf i think) he was talking about how he basically hates the whole 'eating' thing and mostly eats oatmeal.
― adult music person (Jordan), Friday, 10 June 2011 13:46 (twelve years ago) link
― hardcore oatmeal (Jordan), Friday, 10 June 2011 13:47 (twelve years ago) link
The only time I have ever followed a musician's recipe was when I made spicy bean burgers from Richard Youngs' vegan cookbook. They were horrible btw and my family hated them.
― NickB, Friday, 10 June 2011 13:50 (twelve years ago) link
Please tell me that somewhere in the comments on the Albini blog, Michael Gerard has complained about the quality of his hamburgers.
― NickB, Friday, 10 June 2011 14:13 (twelve years ago) link
Man, I get this all part of Albini's cranky old man persona, but I call bullshit on this (from his Gothamist interview):
I’m an exceptionally lucky man in that I’ve never heard a note of Lady Gaga’s music and you could sit her on my lap and I wouldn’t recognize her. I know that she’s a cultural force at the moment but I’m quite satisfied in having dodged that one. It’s like a truck drove by spraying shit from a nozzle over the entire neighborhood and I happened to be under an awning. You know?
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Monday, 3 October 2011 13:31 (twelve years ago) link
I bet he has a Lady Gaga poster above his bed.
― StanM, Monday, 3 October 2011 13:32 (twelve years ago) link
Did you know he was a poker ace?
― master musicians of jamiroquai (NickB), Monday, 3 October 2011 13:33 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah; he can get dangerously close to "the guy at parties who loudly tells people 'I don't even OWN a TV'" at times.
― She Got the Shakes, Monday, 3 October 2011 13:34 (twelve years ago) link
His whole "You know what I can authoritatively declare sucks? This thing I've never heard/experienced!" schtick is getting old(er).
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 October 2011 13:40 (twelve years ago) link
Someone needs to tell him that shouting this kind of thing hasn't earned anyone "cred" since at least 1995.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Monday, 3 October 2011 13:40 (twelve years ago) link
love this guy--he's prolly not worried about his cred either at this point. he's having a laugh you know?
― Mr. Que, Monday, 3 October 2011 13:43 (twelve years ago) link
Too bad it's not a funny laugh.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Monday, 3 October 2011 13:44 (twelve years ago) link
i'm going to drive by his house and play lady gaga really loud.
― Gary Numan, or Gary Fletcher (ken c), Monday, 3 October 2011 13:46 (twelve years ago) link
lol this is a quality zing imo
I remember when I saw Shellac last year play at Bell House that it was pretty striking to see a band live that was playing really direct, aggressive music that wasn’t trying to be pretty or poppy. It just seems from my perspective that there aren’t many bands that are making dark or ugly music anymore. Well, it sort of depends on the idiom really. There’s a lot of sort of grungy metal and punk stuff where every single band is trying to make aggressive music.Yeah, I guess I’m referring more to the... Bands that play at the clubs you go to.
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 3 October 2011 13:48 (twelve years ago) link
not a zing imo
also Albini is awesome
― great zing-balls (crüt), Monday, 3 October 2011 13:49 (twelve years ago) link
He'll go through what the rest of us went through a few summers ago: "Bad Romance" will be playing in the background somewhere, and someone will tell him that it's Lady Gaga, and he'll have the thought "Oh, that's Lady Gaga? I hear that at the supermarket, etc."
― per metal injection (Eazy), Monday, 3 October 2011 14:04 (twelve years ago) link
getting mad at Steve Albini for being cranky about pop music seems like an eternally losing bet, like getting mad at Henry Rollins for going to the gym
― the tax avocado (DJP), Monday, 3 October 2011 14:07 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not mad at him, I accept it as part of his "thing", but I don't buy this particular one at all.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:08 (twelve years ago) link
man if you don't get some lols from that Gothamist interview then you are crankier than ol' Steve A, that shit is full of guffaws
My brother actually played in a pretty well known ska band and he claimed that ska is more popular now than it ever has been. Oh, which band was it?They were called Mephiskapheles. I was going to say please let it be Mephiskapheles. Was he horn?
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 3 October 2011 14:09 (twelve years ago) link
okay lol
― the tax avocado (DJP), Monday, 3 October 2011 14:11 (twelve years ago) link
really? you seem kind of furious at him, man
― Mr. Que, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:11 (twelve years ago) link
no, I'm more lol @ him
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:13 (twelve years ago) link
this is all better if you imagine he was wearing a Hello Kitty cardigan during the interview
― the tax avocado (DJP), Monday, 3 October 2011 14:14 (twelve years ago) link
So this is an interview for Gothamist, which is a New York-centric website.I believe you. Do you have any New York stories that you’d care to share?No.
lol
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:19 (twelve years ago) link
seriously, as a guy who thankfully does not have to interview as many musicians as much as he used to, i appreciate anyone who provides good copy, even if it's at the interviewers expense. at least if you ask albini an asinine or boring question you're going to get a zing out of it.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:21 (twelve years ago) link
I wouldn't recognize Gaga either, but then I don't recognize ILXors I know unless I see em at least once every 6 weeks.
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 October 2011 14:22 (twelve years ago) link
saw Shellac for the first time last week and was genuinely surprised at how good they were. stage banter itself worth the price of admission.
― circa1916, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:31 (twelve years ago) link
yeah shellac rules, i've seen then...god...over dozen times at least
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:05 (twelve years ago) link
― great zing-balls (crüt), Monday, October 3, 2011 1:49 PM (9 hours ago) Bookmark
― wasabi pea-sized masculinity (latebloomer), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
pity most of their albums since AAP are patchy as hell
― Master of Treacle, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
really? i like terraform the best by far
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
greyhound was pretty patchy though
how does he know shes shit if he hasnt heard a note?
― piscesx, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:49 (twelve years ago) link
dunno
though sometimes i feel pretty weird cuz i could say the same thing about a lot of big hits
at home i listen to records and at work i listen to spotify and my ipod and in the car i listen to college radio and sports talk and the local classic rock station, so i haven't heard, for example, "party rock anthem" by lmao
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:52 (twelve years ago) link
That I can understand, but I honestly feel like its really difficult to be that unaware of Gaga in 2011 - she's a special case. I mean, there are thinkpieces all over the fucking place about her, she's in several different ad campaigns, her songs pop up everywhere, she's the closest things to a cultural phenomenon we've got right now. And, given Albini's past remarks, its hard not to imagine him saying that to get a rise out of people.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 02:34 (twelve years ago) link
Hard not to imagine it working, as we've proved.
― boxall, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 02:39 (twelve years ago) link
Sure, doesn't make it less of a pose if true though. Don't get me wrong, I love Shellac and I love a lot of what Albini's done, just rmde at his schtick at this point.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 02:43 (twelve years ago) link
I actually do buy his ignorance, and if it weren't for a supermarket situation as mentioned above, I'd have no idea what she sounds like. Still am only aware of one bit from one of her songs. It's really easy these days to not listen to the radio, watch regular tv, etc. without being a hermit. Spotify+Netflix+Pandora etc. as noted above.
― dlp9001, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 03:31 (twelve years ago) link
do you really have to ask?
― Logg \ O / Logg (crüt), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 05:15 (twelve years ago) link
I only know one Lady Gaga song and only know what she looks like because of the video for that song...Telephone?
― donut and the golden hen (admrl), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 05:41 (twelve years ago) link
there are thinkpieces all over the fucking place about her
― buzza, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 05:56 (twelve years ago) link
i'm perfectly happy for albini to keep churning out these uh, albini-isms. dude seems destined never to mellow, and i'd argue that he simultaneously serves as a luminary for the cantankerous inner cynic in all of us and a bit of a reminder to keep our pessimism in check, so as to not take things quite as far as he has. in other words, the consistency of his message has been kind of comforting over the years and a rather noble counterpoint to the voice of those who take most everything at face value.
― charlie h, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 08:13 (twelve years ago) link
He should get a free pass forevermore for his Santa escapades with his wife.
― solfege made me schizophrenic (MaresNest), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 10:07 (twelve years ago) link
OMG what are his Santa escapades? I thought I was pretty filled in on Albini's exploits!
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 13:43 (twelve years ago) link
he did the nicest, most awesome thing for my friends who are huge shellac fans and was super gracious and nice and polite that I see him alot differently
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:00 (twelve years ago) link
Oh I have no doubt that he's a really nice dude, heard that a lot actually.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:01 (twelve years ago) link
he gave our chalet their beer stash at ATP one year, claiming they were "too old" to want to drink it. They were in the chalet next door to us.
― good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:02 (twelve years ago) link
I once saw him silenced by a heckler, at the Garage in London.
He was introducing - I think - My Black Ass with a long spiel about Satchel Paige being the greatest ball player white people never saw play. Someone shouted: "What about Geoffrey Bloody Boycott, eh?"
Albini was baffled, started laughing and told the heckler: "Sir, you have the advantage."
― Viva Brother Beyond (ithappens), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:14 (twelve years ago) link
OMG what are his Santa escapades?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/dec/09/steve-albini-chicago-secret-santa
― lol-qaeda (am0n), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:19 (twelve years ago) link
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/the-problem-solver/2010/01/letters-to-santa-update.html
― lol-qaeda (am0n), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:23 (twelve years ago) link
That's awesome.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:27 (twelve years ago) link
http://twitpic.com/gnu7p
― lol-qaeda (am0n), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:30 (twelve years ago) link
I guess my core idea of "Albini-isms" is colored by all the homophobic shit he said in interviews in the '80s, y'know, when that was still cool.
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:50 (twelve years ago) link
i was going to say "honestly more concerned about 40-something musicians determined to give lady gaga a fair shake" but then Morbz had to go and mention albini's less charming pigfuckery
― da croupier, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:52 (twelve years ago) link
I also don't think you get to play Chief Justice of Music when you produce Bush etc.
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:57 (twelve years ago) link
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, October 4, 2011 10:00 AM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark
details on this?
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:58 (twelve years ago) link
apparently he took the money from bush and gave it to poor mathcore bands or something
― da croupier, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:58 (twelve years ago) link
See I didn't become aware of Albini until the 90s, so I missed out on all those *charming* 80s years.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 15:23 (twelve years ago) link
xpost cad:
not really my story to tell i guess? maybe i shouldn't have brought it up, but either way left a lasting impression
know ppl that recorded w/him as well and also their impressions seemed at odds w/his public image as an asshole
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 15:23 (twelve years ago) link
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 14:57 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
how about 'expressing an opinion in response to a question asked to you by someone conducting a pre-arranged interview', do you get to do that
― the green manalishi (with the big boobies) (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:23 (twelve years ago) link
what is it with people's apparent inability to distinguish between the above and someone calling a press conference to announce their views to the assembled media
― the green manalishi (with the big boobies) (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:25 (twelve years ago) link
ppl should turn down interviews when they have nothing to say (99% of everybody)
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:26 (twelve years ago) link
surely what they have to say is dependent on the questions that they get asked, unless you're suggesting that they be vetted prior to the interview
― the green manalishi (with the big boobies) (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:30 (twelve years ago) link
*grabs coat, trots to door, SLAM*
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:35 (twelve years ago) link
kinda amazed people are still trotting out this "I can't BELIEVE you've never been heard/seen [insert pop star]" canard
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:37 (twelve years ago) link
been
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:38 (twelve years ago) link
Normally I'd otm you Shakey Mo, but not in this case. It seems like Albini spends a fair amount of time on the internet, which makes it really hard for me to believe he's never encountered Gaga. Considering every fucking site on the net, up to the most highminded highbrow sites, has a thinkpiece on her. I just don't buy it here.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
jon you understand that most thinkpieces don't have mp3s attached to them???
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
and albini doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to read think pieces
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
He said he also wouldn't know what she looked like which, tbh, is the part I have trouble with. I find it easier to believe he's never knowingly heard her.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
That does seem sorta implausible (and not because their are thinkpieces about her, but because there are a lot of pics of her about.)
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
we should go to his website and FLOOD his message board with pictures of lady gaga! that'll show him!
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
jon - ultimately who cares?
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, October 4, 2011 10:57 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Steve Albini is fairly shameless about being a "if there's money, I'll do it" kind of producer wrt bands of which he's not necessarily fond.
― Logg \ O / Logg (crüt), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
He's not a producer, he's an engineer.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
Come on, that could be said about any of the minutia discussed ad infintum on this entire board. There's about 1000 other examples all over ILM of "OMG artist X said THIS crazy thing about pop culture", I'm not sure why this one is suddenly ranking. I wasn't intending to turn this into some 2-day discussion or w/e, I just thought it came across as a smug, bullshit pose.
(xxpost)
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
"rankling"
kind of want Gaga to cover "Kerosene" now
― the tax avocado (DJP), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
or maybe "Things To Do Today"
― the tax avocado (DJP), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
From the Sunday matinee Shellac Q and A:
Kim Deal or Kim Gordon?
For what purpose?
Ah, the LOLs we had.
― Badmotorfinger Debate Club (MFB), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
gaaaaaaggaagaaaagaaagagaaagagagagagagaaaaa NOTHING TO DO BUT SIT AROUND AT HOME SIT AROUND AT HOME AND STARE AT THE WALLS STARE AT EACH OTHER AND WAIT TILL WE DIE STARE AT EACH OTHER AND WAIT TILL WE DIE gaaaa gaaa gaa ga ga ra ra ra il y kerosene
― Logg \ O / Logg (crüt), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:26 (twelve years ago) link
I support this ^
― Logg \ O / Logg (crüt), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:27 (twelve years ago) link
i mean, i suspect he's kinda bending the truth about not knowing what she looks like but who knows? i bet my mom doesn't know what she looks like, i bet other ppl i know don't know what she looks like
it's not that hard to not know things
i believe that he's not heard her
tbh the first time i heard "poker face" was some youtube of chris daughtry from american idol covering it
then i was like damn daughtry's giving gaga props, time for a thinkpiece, shit just got real
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 17:39 (twelve years ago) link
IRL LOL
― Badmotorfinger Debate Club (MFB), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
this isn't his position - his position is "I am an engineer; anybody can hire me to do what I do, I'm like a mechanic." he charges the same, whoever he's recording, and he doesn't care what kind of music he's recording, he doesn't consider engineering a visionary art like somebody like Lanois does.
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 20:50 (twelve years ago) link
my mechanic only works on cars he respects on an aesthetic level
― tylerw, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 20:53 (twelve years ago) link
he charges the same, whoever he's recording
I think that's only at his own studio.
I charge whatever the hell I feel like at the moment, based on the client's ability to pay, how nice the band members are, the size and directly proportional gullibility of the record company, and whether or not they got the rock.
― dmr, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 21:00 (twelve years ago) link
must confess i also haven't heard a note of actual gaga or recognize what gaga looks likebut this is what i imagine her to look like:http://i.imgur.com/KWAtd.jpg(that's a chicken drumstick on her head)
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
so... you think Lady Gaga looks like a character from Squidbillies?
― the tax avocado (DJP), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
is it that far off?
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 21:12 (twelve years ago) link
not really, no
― the tax avocado (DJP), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 21:17 (twelve years ago) link
this is what i imagine bonnie prince billy looks like:http://i.imgur.com/n6Rbf.png
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 21:21 (twelve years ago) link
His dad is a french tickler?
― master musicians of jamiroquai (NickB), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
xpost I bet Lanois is a lot more hands off a producer than many people peg him for. Lots of his stuff (Peter Gabriel aside) is just people together in a room. Even a lot of his fabled sound is mostly just small old school amps cranked up, the odd delay pedal aside.
Anyway. Albini I imagine will pretty much do anything anyone asks him to in the studio. I doubt many people come and ask him to do stuff with drum machines, synths and sequences, though. He also has a pretty well established sliding scale, in that the more money a label has, the more he charges. Punk bands from podunk don't pay much at all. In many other regards, his infamous persona and reputation is pretty overblown. In my limited experience, he's a nice, hard-working guy.And like Ian MacKaye, he'll pick up the phone when you call.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 22:06 (twelve years ago) link
braggin'
― dangobro (D-40), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 22:24 (twelve years ago) link
He himself had a pretty good drum machine band once upon a time iirc.
― master musicians of jamiroquai (NickB), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 22:26 (twelve years ago) link
today i was listening to that Jarvis Cocker record he did, which is great and has a bit of synths and loops and stuff
― Am the ship hence S.O.M.E. (some dude), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 22:26 (twelve years ago) link
tbf the guy seemed insufferable with all those dick-waving Forced Exposure articles
― Master of Treacle, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 22:26 (twelve years ago) link
on ILM of all places people should understand that it's possible for someone to be really snarky and aggressive when writing about music online or being interviewed about music and yet a perfectly nice guy irl when dealing with people face to face about regular stuff
― Am the ship hence S.O.M.E. (some dude), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 22:28 (twelve years ago) link
they meet!http://i.imgur.com/kB7ZU.png
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 22:59 (twelve years ago) link
http://artforum.com/uploads/upload.000/id09589/article00_wide.jpg
― per metal injection (Eazy), Thursday, 6 October 2011 20:10 (twelve years ago) link
Oh, wait, that should go in the "funny famous people together photos" ILE thread.
― per metal injection (Eazy), Thursday, 6 October 2011 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
Lady Gaga is the guy in the black jacket, right?
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 6 October 2011 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, October 4, 2011 4:50 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I guess this is what I was trying to say, I just botched it.
― Tipper Goregrind (crüt), Thursday, 6 October 2011 20:14 (twelve years ago) link
I guess I don't read thinkpieces, or the right thinkpieces? I read The New Yorker, The Nation, Artforum, sometimes Film Comment. I guess maybe the NYer probably ran something on her but if they did, I didn't read it. I don't really listen to radio and I don't have tv. Maybe this is why I haven't really heard or seen Lady Gaga much. maybe Stephen A is the same.
― Moonbear Currency (admrl), Thursday, 6 October 2011 23:07 (twelve years ago) link
Also I teach teenage girls and they don't like Lady Gaga. They like Nicki Minaj, like, A LOT. So I know her. I've heard her music, but only played on pink cellphones
― Moonbear Currency (admrl), Thursday, 6 October 2011 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
I agree
― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 6 October 2011 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
I don't.
― bamcquern, Friday, 7 October 2011 02:17 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.electricalaudio.com/johngrabski.html
albini writes about John Grabski III of The Teeth, who recorded at Electrical Audio as he was dying of terminal cancer. really affecting.
http://www.electricalaudio.com/images/John_Grabski_III.jpg
John Grabski III
Until I met John Grabski III, who died in March, I had no idea how to die properly. I do not want to die, but I had always presumed I wouldn't have any options available to me when the time came. John had been diagnosed with cancer and beaten it back a couple of times already, so he had put a good amount of thought into the subject, and in the way he lived the last year of his life, he proved that it is possible not just to have options, but to be daring and heroic on the way out.
John's relationship with cancer started a half-decade earlier when he underwent treatment the first time. He rebounded and regained his strength, rejoined the musical community in upstate New York and resumed a creative, active life with his friends, his children and his family. When cancer reasserted itself last year in a terminal diagnosis, he made a choice between two options, undergoing a regimen of treatment that might extend his life at the cost of its quality, or a less invasive course that would allow him to continue living more-or-less normally by suppressing some of his symptoms and alleviating his pain, without increasing his longevity. He chose that second course.
John contacted me after making that decision and said he wanted to make an album to help deal with, document and express his relationship with cancer, and I was happy to help. I mentioned the session to Bob Weston and he instantly volunteered to take care of the mastering. John enlisted his brother Ben, and the two of them drove to Chicago to record the album "the Strain." Initially they chose the modest group name New York Farmers for the project, but over the course of the session, a band identity began to take shape and John ultimately chose the name Teeth.
John and Ben worked diligently and efficiently, John playing drums in a fluid, powerful style, the cancer having little apparent effect on his stamina. He and Ben shared guitar and bass duties. The primary guitar used on the album was a Harmony Les Paul-style guitar that was customized for John by his uncle, and John contacted one of his favorite drummers, Coady Willis from the Melvins and Big Business, who lent him a snare drum to use for the sessions. For overdubs John used a Veleno guitar that had once been re-strung lefty and used by Kurt Cobain on the Nirvana album In Utero. John marveled openly that he was finally getting to make the album he wanted to make, and he was connecting both his favorite bands and his entire family in the process.
In the run-up to making the album, John joined the online forum associated with our studio, told his story and was immediately embraced by that community. The forum isn't really part of the studio business, but has a distinct personality of its own, an irreverent and comprehensive international discussion group for music, culture, politics, art and life in general. The forum has created its own society, with members forming a record label, organizing shows and outings, and raising money for charities and creative projects. Forum members jokingly adopted the nickname PRF, short for "Premier Rock Forum," and PRF has become a prefix for any undertaking the forum members undertake.
The PRF community rallied around John, voicing support and assisting in making the record a tangible reality. For the album and his progression through cancer, John adopted the tag line "Rock vs cancer. Rock wins," adding it to Facebook and Bandcamp pages about the record and using it to sign off his correspondence and forum posts.
John made his album, got it up on the web and began attracting attention, garnering praise from journalists and other musicians not just for his perseverance but for the music itself. The album "The Strain" is gripping. The music is hard-edged and bracing, with John's inventive, powerful drumming and heavy guitar framing each song with a sound matched to its theme. It's a genuinely great, powerful album, made more intense by the context that it was intended to be a missive from inside the disease of cancer, like a dispatch from the front, to the outside world.
While in Chicago, John and Ben were invited to play on a bill of PRF bands at a local venue. He and Ben were received like heroes and got to hang out in person with the dozens of enthusiasts John had met online, widening and strengthening the network of supporters for the project.
When the album wrapped, John almost instantly floated the idea of making another one, since the first one came together so quickly. Again I said I'd be honored to put the resources of the studio behind it. John came alone this time, and he was much worse for wear. Tumors had multiplied and grown in his body, including a raft of them in his brain, and the medicine that suppressed the symptoms and pain from the tumors weakened him and left his acuity slightly dulled. Nevertheless, he committed to making the record, and day after day he made progress toward an album intended to compliment "the Strain." When this session ended, he had recorded all the drums and guitar for the album, and preliminary plans were laid to complete it later in the year, his health permitting.
John's health didn't improve, and he passed away March 9, 2012.
While working on the albums, John lived here at the studio and I got to know him pretty well. He and I shared a passion for good food, and John frequently relived favorite meals, describing dishes in detail, whether he made them himself or had them in restaurants. He had a particular passion for seafood, and experimented with different raw and cooked preparations with the same enthusiasm he applied to music. It was apparent from the way he relished his endeavors that John intended, as much as his body would permit, to live his life as though he was not dying. There was nothing resigned about him. As I wrote on the forum when the second session concluded, John had no quit in him. The heart of a lion.
It has taken weeks for my thoughts about John and his endeavor to coalesce into something I can fathom, and I have finally gotten a handle on it. What John did in his final months was prove that death is truly a part of life. For him, death was not a terror, just a thing he had to deal with. We all have to deal with it, but he had to deal with it immediately. That said, he refused to let his terminal condition define him or dictate the terms of his life. He would adapt to his condition the way he might put on an extra layer when the weather changed.
I know that how John lived and died isn't about me, but I saw him in the middle of it and it made an indelible impression on me. The way he defined himself in relation to his circumstances and his art reminded me of a moment of epiphany I experienced earlier in my life, so at the risk of sounding foolish I'll share it here. When I was a kid approaching adulthood I felt like a weirdo. I felt alien and isolated from my peers and the rest of the straight world around me. I and my small cadre of friends were misfits and didn't identify with the roles and expectations set out for us. We felt broken and wrong. Then I discovered the Ramones. The Ramones were a punk band, and their existence seemed to validate everything about the way I looked at the world. They had the same crude sense of humor, they were unflinching in their depiction of the everyday depravity we were aware of but never heard mentioned in polite company, and they were unselfconsciously weird. More than anything else they weren't untouchable rock stars, they were like me, and that made me feel like my own crudely-rendered ideas were worth taking seriously. They gave me license to think my own way and see the world as it appeared to me, not as it was supposed to be. If not for the Ramones, I don't know if I ever would have developed the self-confidence to set out on a life course that ultimately made a career for me and put me in a position to help John Grabski make a record. I owe that to the Ramones.
When I think about the scores of people who are diagnosed with cancer every day, I can only imagine how disorienting, how alienating that must be. And just as each cancer case is different, inevitably the images of cancer patients in the media and public consciousness will fail to resonate with some of them. Not everybody can be Lance Armstrong. Trying to imagine a kid with cancer feeling alone and distant, I can also imagine that kid coming across the Strain, and seeing an example of how a cancer patient can confront the disease head-on, and unflinchingly stare it down. I think John Grabski, Teeth and the Strain could be like the Ramones of cancer. John's music could inspire a cancer patient to continue his life rather than put it on hold. To take a shot at fulfilling an ambition, to carry on eating with gusto, laughing, making plans and engaging 100 percent with the world around him.
When John died he left an album half-completed. It's tempting to think of that as a kind of disappointment, that he couldn't finish what he started, but I think that's misreading it. John wasn't trying to wrap things up, he was just carrying on. He was living his life as a continuum, and that involved working on music. It would be a disappointment if John had not bitten off more than he could chew, because that would imply that John was wrapping things up in a tidy way, concluding an implicit surrender to the disease. John would have none of that. Sure, he knew he wouldn't be able to carry on forever, but he wasn't going to cut himself off, to do the disease's dirty work. If cancer was going to kill him it would have to interrupt him to do it.
John died in the company of his family, and his namesake father shared this story with me:
On Friday afternoon I sat talking with John in his apartment just hours before cancer took his life. He sat in a very small chair in the middle of the room, elbows on his thighs with his hair hanging down over his knees as if to refuse to allow cancer to steal away even a fraction of his day. He was struggling with a single minded focus that I have seen only in the grimacing faces of extraordinary athletes with the mental wherewithal and capacity to push their body beyond the point of exhaustion and far beyond their physical limitations. I asked him carefully, "What are you thinking John?" He very slowly and deliberately fixed his eyes to mine and I had a fleeting thought that I had never witnessed such a deep almost piercing look of utter concentration as he said, "Tomorrow, I am thinking about tomorrow."
This was yet another example of Rock vs. Cancer, Rock Wins. To the last second of this beautiful man's life, John never allowed cancer to steal his character, his spirit, his mind or his dignity. He acknowledged that in the end it would take his physical life away but maintained that cancer would never define him nor would it dictate the terms of engagement. The powerful and profound music of Teeth sends a clear message to cancer and serves as a beacon that shines the way forward for those caught within its deadly grasp. Cancer claimed his body. It was unsuccessful claiming the MAN and as hard as it tried, cancer could not claim his music. On Friday March 9th, 2012 cancer was humiliated, defeated and destroyed. Rock vs. Cancer, Rock Won.
The way John faced his mortality was inspirational. When my time comes, I hope I can follow his example. I hope when I die I go like John, embroiled in the middle of things, surrounded by people I love, doing the things that matter most. I hope I leave a mountain of shit unfinished, that I have a pan on the stove, a phone call waiting and a pencil in my hand. I hope I'm man enough to be thinking about tomorrow.
For all of us, the living, the dying and the someday dying, John Grabski III, you are a hero.
-steve albini
― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
Wow.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
That record is pretty fantastic, even if you didn't know the backstory
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 30 April 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it's just real nasty 90s stuff, reminds me of a poppier Tar a bit
― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 April 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
bump
maybe i shoulda started a new thread
― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 April 2012 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
new Screaming Females record sounds good.
― UnderControl, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 00:00 (eleven years ago) link
Regarding what Albini is up to at the moment, I've heard he's either working on or has just finished working on a solo record by Hugh Cornwell (ex-Stranglers), called 'Totem & Taboo'.
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
amazing piece there, thanks M@tt.
my mother-in-law just got diagnosed with massive, incompetently (un-) diagnosed terminal cancer and I just forwarded that to my wife, who took an emergency redeye flight last night to see her before she dies.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
sorry to hear that sleeve. my stepdad died a couple years back, similar causes & circumstances.
and yeah, thanks for posting the piece, m@tt. very much wanna hear teeth.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
who is putting the teeth record out? is it available already?
― Bad Company's Drummer's Daughter (stevie), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 10:55 (eleven years ago) link
It is being self-released, the family I believe is handling the physical distro, otherwise you can download it from BandcampThe Strain
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:47 (eleven years ago) link
thanks chris!
― Bad Company's Drummer's Daughter (stevie), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
thanks for that info! i want to get this.
but lol @ the bassist of the fucking Cribs of all bands getting quoted on there:
"Super raw, honest, not being done for commercial gain etc. Very influenced by Melvins, Shellac, Bleach/pre-Dave-era Nirvana, maybe even a bit Jesus Lizard at times." - Gary Jarman (bassist, The Cribs) in an email to rock critic Everett True
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 22:23 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/td90c/i_am_steve_albini_ask_me_anything/
― markers, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 22:45 (eleven years ago) link
wow that was an interesting read thanks for posting
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 23:23 (eleven years ago) link
that link is going to be such a time sink today...
― koogs, Thursday, 10 May 2012 09:13 (eleven years ago) link
He comes across as such a decent guy. It's fascinating, and interestign that he seems quite keen to do this kidn of thing - there was the poker forum thing a few years ago, too, which was equally funny and informative.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, 10 May 2012 09:35 (eleven years ago) link
Interesting read, thanks for the link markers.
Pain in the ass to have to click a fucking thousand "expand" links to read one page though.
― Keith pissed on my chips (onimo), Thursday, 10 May 2012 10:40 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah..
About 4 'expands' down, there's a link to a much nicer "questions and answer" table format, however this has not been updated that recently, and when you click back, it takes you to the initial unexpanded version.
― Mark G, Thursday, 10 May 2012 10:45 (eleven years ago) link
People really want to get the guy to list his favourite records, huh! I seem to remember the poker thread had a lot of the same quizzing going on.
Interesting, too, that "Steve's opinion on ____" is something that seems to have a great deal of weight for many people... usually when I have a conversation with Nina Nastasia or The Breeders or PJ Harvey there's a point where somebody says "Albini gave this record to John Peel" or "this was Albini's favourite record" or "Albini said she eats nothing but potatoes".
The interesting thing afaic is his repeated insistence to "make music for yourself, not for others" which is some strange dogma that I can't comprehend
― poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:54 (eleven years ago) link
Whoops, I meant to say: "another thing that is interesting is:"
― poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:55 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's more like "don't get bogged down worrying about what other people will think" which makes more sense to me.
His Big Black tour diary, linked on that reddit page, is a bit, um, o_O
― Keith pissed on my chips (onimo), Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:05 (eleven years ago) link
YEAH yeah you're right. I read it wrong. It did seem pretty anti-social.
― poxen, Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
xp I kind of love that tour diary for the light that it shines on stuff happening thousands of miles away from me when I was seven years old, but at this point it's kind of perfect that ppl are reading it from a link on Reddit
― listicular fortitude (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:21 (eleven years ago) link
His comment abour reading/playing scrabble while doing takes was pretty interesting. On the handful of recorsing experiences I've had, esp during the mixing process, yr ears def get fried intensely listening to play backs over and over.
I recorded with Steve recently and he was reading Peter Morris's "A Game of Inches", an inside baseball history. And I can attest that he always noticed if someone flubbed a part or whatever.
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 10 May 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
"Albini said she eats nothing but potatoes"stuff like this is pretty interesting! (to me, anyway) i liked his description of KK Null's natto feast. ian mackaye seems really touchy when people ask about his eating habits, though.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
i hadn't see him express regret about the pixies comments before
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
he was sort of apologetic in a recent tape op interview too. albini, so mellow.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
what's weird is that i always thought he was fucking around in the first place. like meaningless shit talk for laughs, you know? the fact that he describes it now as mean-spirited sincerity, rather than straight-up trolling, is a bit disappointing.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
I always figured he was serious, pixies don't seem like his thing
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i guess not. he did good work for them, though, and they helped put one another on the map.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i dunno, that album sounds great but i expect the pixies were going places either way and i think steve would have done just fine either way....also shit is like almost 30 years ago, it must be weird to be held to all these things you said that long ago
sometimes ILXor & my little dog loutallica partner chr1s b just got back from recording w/steve and sounds like it was the best experience ever, basically
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
sweet!re; the pixies, whenever i read interviews with him now, it seems like it's beside the point for him whether he likes the bands he's recording or not. also, he's got a long-running working relationship w/ kim deal it seems, they must like each other personally.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:06 (eleven years ago) link
It was! He even said something nice about our band in the Reddit! Ha!
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
It was not better then making "Little Dog" fwiw, that experience was way more honest
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
read him say somewhere (believe it was in the 33 1/3 Spiderland book) that he's regretful about some of his behavior in the early recording days. mentioned Surfer Rosa and Tweez as examples of albums he kind of arrogantly imposed his "vision" upon instead of giving the band what they wanted. also, he was doing pranky/creepy things like mic'ing break room conversations.
― circa1916, Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
xp as good as albini is, i don't think he's ever created a whole new planetary system w/ one of his recordings.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:08 PM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i mean, EA is a nice studio, but he can't duplicate my signature "Um Jammer Lammy promotional Fernandez travel guitar plugged direct into outdated ProTools" guitar sound
― Bandersnatch Cumberbund (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
thanks for that link markers, I'm loving this
I learned to make records by being in punk rock bands, and those bands weren't interested in anybody else's opinion on their music, and actively resisted anybody trying to press the point. I started out making records that way and just carried on.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
and actively resisted anybody trying to press the point
press what point...they don't like punk or noisy stuff, so what
what exactly is there to resist, I wonder
― Master of Treacle, Sunday, 13 May 2012 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
resist engineers making bad brains sound like foghat, which apparently was going on a lot at the time.(this is apparently still going on)
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 13 May 2012 06:15 (eleven years ago) link
i can't imagine steve really respecting anyone who didn't have a chip on their shoulder
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 06:15 (eleven years ago) link
I think one reason Albini has mellowed is that at just about 50 he's made it over the sell-out hump. That is, he's secure enough and successful enough that at the stage many of his peers must be scrambling to support the second half of their careers/lives, he doesn't need to hustle. He's made it this far without doing anything stupid, he's in a committed pseudo-marriage, he's got a good business, a good reputation, and he's done it all (cue the music) his way. I'd be pretty sanguine, too.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 May 2012 12:16 (eleven years ago) link
surfer rosa & tweez, albums that would not be as good as they are if albini hadn't imposed his vision on them - I would think that this might cause him to question the aesthetic he arrived at ("hands off") tbh
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 13 May 2012 12:25 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno, as a sort of aesthete I can imagine him finding flaws in things that "work" because they deviate from his standard.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 May 2012 12:33 (eleven years ago) link
Josh, can you elucidate on his 'pseudo' marriage? Intrigued.
― Dick Move's Wardrobe (MaresNest), Sunday, 13 May 2012 13:00 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, nothing special. He's just been in a committed, very long term relationship with someone who he is not married to. But she is practically his wife, common-law stylee.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 May 2012 13:01 (eleven years ago) link
But what it boils down to is I actually think marriage matters. I actually think being married to somebody is important. And doing it out of some sense of momentum or nonchalant sort of obligation seems silly to me. It's the sort of thing that you should undertake quite seriously. And I don't think it's the hallmark of a relationship that it's "marriage-worthy." I think relationships can exist inside or outside of marriage, and I feel like the marriage can -- the wedding can occur at any point in a marriage as far as I'm concerned, you know? And if you gave people the option, everybody would ask for one of those really good fifty-year marriages. That's the kind of marriage everybody wants; they want one of them grow-old-together marriages. But you can't order 'em like that. You get a marriage and then you wake up fifty years later and realize you got one of the good ones. And I just see that as a continuous process, and I don't see any real rush to have a ceremony. I feel like the ceremony can happen anywhere along the line.
― fit and working again, Sunday, 13 May 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
From interview with Mark Prindle.
― fit and working again, Sunday, 13 May 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
(Quite sure they're married since that interview.)
― caro's johnson (Eazy), Sunday, 13 May 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
2009, I guess:
http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/27986101.jpg?key=16001200&Expires=1336930159&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=Wxlr~qY0xOo1wuORIOkLg4nkt9gZQUR-lIAMO-rlw4X8E~OjwPiOgGZmxM2bpuA94gfCs8jS57AN04M772luEklx1oDvO5zLNbTK-p2AFq6mcYVXMZtxeZCciVMb-tsIlSL-GmXt1DP8DFwqjaWhN9KDNMu-6BooEm6YJqiYl8g_
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 May 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
This is 100% true gospel dogma whatever you want to call it. You HAVE to make music for yourself. I mean it's kind of a selfish thing and kind of an ego trip but so is getting in front of a group of people and saying "Stand right there and watch me make these sounds for an hour!" At the end of the day, the only audience you have is you. Your popularity will go in waves, there will be shows where you are playing and nobody gives a shit, or nobody shows up, and you have to be able to deal with it. And if you are not making music for yourself then at that moment you will feel a psychic shock of worthlessness and you may as well just be working in an office, at least you'll be making some decent money.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 May 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
Super looking forward to those interviews, btw! Thanks for the link.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 May 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
adam otm, all you can really do is trust your gut and hope a few other people have somewhat similar guts
― some dude, Sunday, 13 May 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
i love that photo.he looks sooo happy.he played the game his way, and he got what he wanted.lucky b*stard.re the cancer post : well, i could not read it for a few days for obvious reasons, but yesterday i did, and i'm glad.our situation was very different, but still, was wonderfully open and honest.
― mark e, Sunday, 13 May 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
I always read about him talking shit about the Pixies but ive never really read any of those old interviews. Does anyone have any links? I'm pretty curious, all the interviews i can find are more recent.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 May 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
http://michaeldempster.com/post/1256694678
http://www.dementlieu.com/users/obik/arc/other/kreuzen_fe10.html
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 May 2012 18:47 (eleven years ago) link
In the 1960s and '70s, the left began to recognize that internal political debate was being hampered by crippling "revolutionary" circumspectness -- couching every "he" as a "he or she," Referring to mankind as "humankind," trying to be inclusive in every way to everyone. It was ridiculous -- to the left -- and so the phrase "political correctness" was coined to make fun of this awkward, stilted, revolution-speak language. So, when someone would speak normally, and one of the forbidden language forms or pronouns was used, someone else -- as a joke -- would chime in with "that's not P.C." It was a way for the Left to make fun of itself in a way that it needed to and deserved. Most importantly, it recognizes overtly that the trivia that dogmatists might criticize are unimportant. It was a joke that made a moderate, sensible point of critique within the Left. The Right took hold of the term, using it to ridicule earnest attempts to make discourse more civil or policy more responsible, painting them with the same brush as the myopic, dogmatic revolution-speak it was originally intended to make light jest of. It is now assumed by the general public that this notion of "politically correct" speech was a serious one, and that the left tried to impose it on others, and that it is an example of the Left overreaching in social areas. This is patent bullshit, and I am disgusted that nobody who wasn't around at the time recognizes it. Using the term reinforces the success of this right-wing propaganda move, and I hate it. I hate orchestrated right-wing propaganda moves.
So, when someone would speak normally, and one of the forbidden language forms or pronouns was used, someone else -- as a joke -- would chime in with "that's not P.C."
It was a way for the Left to make fun of itself in a way that it needed to and deserved. Most importantly, it recognizes overtly that the trivia that dogmatists might criticize are unimportant. It was a joke that made a moderate, sensible point of critique within the Left.
The Right took hold of the term, using it to ridicule earnest attempts to make discourse more civil or policy more responsible, painting them with the same brush as the myopic, dogmatic revolution-speak it was originally intended to make light jest of.
It is now assumed by the general public that this notion of "politically correct" speech was a serious one, and that the left tried to impose it on others, and that it is an example of the Left overreaching in social areas. This is patent bullshit, and I am disgusted that nobody who wasn't around at the time recognizes it. Using the term reinforces the success of this right-wing propaganda move, and I hate it.
I hate orchestrated right-wing propaganda moves.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 May 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
I love the Shellac song "Ghosts". Did anything in particular inspire it or is there anything interesting about it you can share with us?
Just had the idea that if you could conjure ghosts it would be a pretty terrible power. Like you could just make somebody dead and a ghost just like that. Or take a regular dead person and make him a restless specter forced to roam the earth forever. And if the person with that power was a little girl, just amusing herself by making ghosts like she was making paper dolls or whatever. How cute and also horrible that would be. And then what kind of people would she do that to? Maybe a historical figure she learned about in school or another kid from the neighborhood or somebody from TV...
^^^love this, probably my fav shellac lyrics and i appreciate the insight
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 13 May 2012 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:25 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is sort of interesting to me--i think steve is still imposing his vision tbh, you can recognize his recordings instantly. maybe it's more like these days you know what you're getting if you record with him?
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 13 May 2012 22:31 (eleven years ago) link
i think he's just more inclined to slip his vision in through the back door when no one's looking
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 22:37 (eleven years ago) link
It's a little like the Dogme 95 folks not imposing their vision with recorded music, fake lights, etc.--when of course you can spot a Dogme 95 movie from a block away.
― caro's johnson (Eazy), Sunday, 13 May 2012 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
to be honest i can't hear any sonic difference between surfer rosa and doolittle -- maybe it's the MP3s?the stooges album sounded like a regular high-gloss rock album.
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 13 May 2012 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
In a way yeah he seems more like an engineer, someone who knows how to get a good sound and use the right mics. He says thats lots of times producers are responsible for you know, hiring a saxophone or crafting the arrangement or basically co-writing the song as recording. On Surfer he suggested a tempo change and pushed for the in-studio sounds ("You effing die!") but you get the sense he thinks of his job as simply getting the best sonic representation of a song/band. This is why he doesn't take royalties, I'm sure with his work ethic, if he was laying down synth patterns and extra instruments and stuff, he'd want credit.
The difference is between scaled-down multi-track analog and like a far more expensive 24-channel digital system. If you can't tell the difference then I'd say he did a pretty terrific job!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
it also matters a lot who mixes the record and who they're answering to/who they feel their obligation is to (label vs. artist vs. themselves vs. idk "posterity" or something) -- mix is 1) an entirely different discipline from recording/engineering and 2) absolutely as important as the recording itself. I don't know who mixed those Pixies records but that'd be where I'd look most for differences.
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 14 May 2012 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
surfer rosa was all albini. doolittle was a gil norton production but some other dude mixed it
― our love will change the world (electricsound), Monday, 14 May 2012 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
http://thequietus.com/articles/13250-steve-albini-interview-rapeman-shellac
The most amazing thing is that he says he tried to get Bill Withers to play ATP...BILL WITHERS!!...The guy has gone up a billion fold in my estimations...just too bizarre...my mind has been blown...
― The Pastiche Liberation Front (sonnyboy), Monday, 2 September 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link
http://m.imgur.com/a/p0tKn
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
^^^Must read bit o' epistolary history.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
I heard about Albini's admiration of Bill Withers several years back. It makes sense, with Withers' mostly stripped-down production (at least on early albums), his down-to-earth demeanor, posing for the covers with his lunchbox on break from work. There's also a great story in the James Brown book about how Brown was having a diva fit on a small plane on the way to the Rumble In The Jungle concert in Zaire, until Withers pulled a gigantic hunting knife on Brown to tell him to STFU. Badass!
― Fastnbulbous, Thursday, 26 September 2013 17:27 (ten years ago) link
his description of the overwrought nature of bad recording processes reminds me a little too painfully of a recording I made, where we somehow turned what we thought was great material into a mediocre record by (1) the engineer not really getting our live sound and (2) way too much drawn out tinkering and rejiggering
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
awesome letter. so much respect for albini, especially that last bit about the money.
― Z S, Thursday, 26 September 2013 19:35 (ten years ago) link
https://twitter.com/beaunoise/status/383268011169181697
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 26 September 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
There's likely a bit of an underlying sales-tactic angle to all that though, don't you think?
xpost
― Evan, Thursday, 26 September 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
love the spirit of the letter, and many of the details, but who says a recording has to sound like a live band? there are so many other things a recording can be.
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 26 September 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
albini is such a joy to read, and a great dude all around.
― marcos, Thursday, 26 September 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
I think albini's point is that if you're recording a rock band, it should sound like a rock band
also maybe it's the cynical in me but weird that this is circulating the week of the in utero reissue
― a hard dom is good to find (Edward III), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:23 (ten years ago) link
uh, i think it's explicitly part of the promo (included in the box set)?
also <3 beau and his twitter.
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
the fugazi session he mentions was scrapped though, and, ironically, he kind of failed to make them sound like themselves. Everyone has their artistic failures I guess.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:29 (ten years ago) link
it should sound like a rock band
which sounds like what exactly?
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:32 (ten years ago) link
There's likely a bit of an underlying sales-tactic angle to all that though, don't you think?― Evan, Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:38 PM (55 minutes ago)
― Evan, Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:38 PM (55 minutes ago)
Not really as Kurt had approached Steve about recording the follow-up to Nevermind... not the other way around.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:35 (ten years ago) link
the fugazi session he mentions was scrapped though, and, ironically, he kind of failed to make them sound like themselves
Nah, they sound like themselves on it
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:37 (ten years ago) link
Albini made good records in part because he had an approach that he believed in and stuck to. He talks about it dogmatically as though it is *the* approach, which it isn't, but the fact that he was so adamant about it made him a better engineer/producer imo.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:37 (ten years ago) link
This sounds like ass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBnDrIxjz8A
the drums are all pushed out and the guitars, which are what really drive the band, are kind of crushed
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, they definitely didn't sound like that live. Weird choices on Albini's part. And arrg weird panning on the drum kit. Hate that.
― punt cased (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:44 (ten years ago) link
Yeah it doesn't sound that different than the Kill Taker version to me.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:45 (ten years ago) link
Keep in mind those are DEMOS
sounds way different from Killtaker
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:47 (ten years ago) link
i don't like the slint stuff with albini because it sounds too albini. and yet i don't mind the same albini touch on the breeders/pixies stuff. sometimes it works for me and sometmes it doesn't.
― scott seward, Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:48 (ten years ago) link
otm. Breeders' Pod is my favorite Albini production.
― punt cased (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
so how much did Nirvana paid him eventually?
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
since albini refuses to take points on albums he records, nirvana paid him by giving him several points on hole's live through this.
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:52 (ten years ago) link
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
he got paid like $100K iirc
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:56 (ten years ago) link
SUCKER!
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:57 (ten years ago) link
Didn't he say he went broke soon after though?
― punt cased (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:58 (ten years ago) link
regardless
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 20:59 (ten years ago) link
i think Surfer Rosa was one of his best works, and iirc he didn't like the record so much at first.
so i take with grain of salt his remark about the correlation between the quality of the result and the mood of the band.
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:02 (ten years ago) link
feel like this is a real truth bomb about a certain kind of artist in general
― Tyskie in the giro (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:04 (ten years ago) link
he also knew how to choose good bands to work with most of the times..
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:05 (ten years ago) link
Bush...
― scott seward, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
if he would've made a masterpiece with Backstreet Boys, he was now the truly the god of all producers lol
of course he is a great producer, but it's easier to be good with Jesus Lizard than with Bush
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:09 (ten years ago) link
He would probably admit that!
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:10 (ten years ago) link
i don't really care about notions of "good bands" and i don't think it's relevant to Albini's process - he worked with whoever he chose, whether that be for financial or aesthetic reasons
― Tyskie in the giro (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:11 (ten years ago) link
i always dreamed about a collaboration between SY and Albini. that could have been their last masterpiece..
i guess he fucked it with that Rapeman song..among other stuff..
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:13 (ten years ago) link
true, i'm talking about the resultxpost
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:14 (ten years ago) link
The 18th Dye record sounds fantastic!
― Evan, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:16 (ten years ago) link
I imagine that letter being typed out live on a sturdy but analog typewriter with no edits and no click track.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:17 (ten years ago) link
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
my faves would probably be pod, surfer rosa, goat, songs about fucking, rid of me. and the first shellac album. kinda glad he didn't do helmet's meantime and spiderland. oh and dial m for motherfucker. i like how that sounds. too far into the 90's and i probably didn't hear whatever he did.
― scott seward, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:20 (ten years ago) link
I don't like how the jawbreaker record sounded but apparently during the recording process the console caught on fire so good excuse?
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:23 (ten years ago) link
i'll add Man Or Astro Man, and some more i probably forgot..xpost
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:23 (ten years ago) link
seamonsters, dogs...
― koogs, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:27 (ten years ago) link
silkworm
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
All of the Silkworm albums he worked on sound amazing but especially "Firewater." My favorite drum sound.xpost
― Immediate Follower (NA), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
Nina Nastasia's records, those are good.
― LinkedIn Beef (Eazy), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:37 (ten years ago) link
oh yeah! those are some recent records i love. don't know how much of that is albini and how much of that is liking her a lot though. they sound fine. he is good with strings on some of those records.
― scott seward, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:39 (ten years ago) link
taking a good band and not fucking it up is harder than it sounds -- there are plenty of crappy-sounding or overworked records by good bands
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:40 (ten years ago) link
if you listen to the recent nina albums they don't scream albini or anything. which is a good thing. they shouldn't. i like tar's jackson too. forgot that one. just a great rock guitar sound.
― scott seward, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:41 (ten years ago) link
i still dream of a new orleans brass band recording with albini.
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:42 (ten years ago) link
or great punk guitar sound anyway. you have to dig albini drum sound to like the tar album though.
― scott seward, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:42 (ten years ago) link
every time i hear a shittily digitally recorded metal album i kinda wish i could hear it recorded by someone like albini. just to get some sort of room sound and some contrast.
― scott seward, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:44 (ten years ago) link
From outside the world of rock, he did a really good job on The Thing's Bag It! a few years ago.
― 誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:44 (ten years ago) link
Wonder if he's still insisting on the no royalties with the 2013 mix and all that.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:48 (ten years ago) link
I wish more jazz artists hired him cuz yes that Thing record sounds great.
Steve is a genius at documenting what bands actually sound like, which seems like it would be really easy to do but is not. I am in a band that made a record with him and he was a pleasure to work with and I think it sounds closest of all of our records to what we actually sound like live & in the practice space.
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:51 (ten years ago) link
obligatory post where i say that razorblade suitcase sounds pretty damn good.
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:56 (ten years ago) link
chr1s I figured out what band that is and I'm listening to the record now and it sounds pretty great!
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:56 (ten years ago) link
albini has a thing with kick and snare -- when he does anything on the hard side his kick and snare always really stand out to me
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:58 (ten years ago) link
i guess he fucked it with that Rapeman song..among other stuff.
Kim Gordon: Big Black were playing in Amsterdam, it was their last tour, and we happened to be there. In the train stations they have machines where you can buy women’s underwear. It was Steve’s birthday, so I bought some to throw at him so he would feel like a rock god on his birthday.
― fit and working again, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:58 (ten years ago) link
These are all some great records, but Neurosis "Times Of Grace" is the best album Albini ever recorded
I agree with the "no royalties" ideology and put it into practice by working pay-what-you-can with all clients. The rest of that letter is a terrific, dogmatic method but it's a good method. I've heard lots of shitty Albini records by bands that really should've used Protools (or practiced more) ((or ceased to exist))
― flamboyant goon tie included, Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
yeah, what bands actually sound like + an amazing larger-than-life roomy drum sound.
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 26 September 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
yeah tbf I don't think many bands can claim that their drums sound like that in the practice room
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:01 (ten years ago) link
Ha, well the drums actually do kind of sound that way in the practice pad when yr standing right in front of them.
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:02 (ten years ago) link
i'm usually behind them so maybe i don't realize ha. but I'm also not a heavy-hitting drummer.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:03 (ten years ago) link
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:40 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
but taking a shitty/mediocre band and recording with them a record with a good production - no one will give a fuck anyway.
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:14 (ten years ago) link
i think by definition "shitty/mediocre" bands who are recording an album have a number of people who will give a fuck
― Tyskie in the giro (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link
Right But not the one's who liked the "good" bands.Plus,people who like shitty band usually don't enjoy the "production"..
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:20 (ten years ago) link
Assuming we all agree Pixies were good and Bush was shit lol
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link
"Hey,that Bush record sounds great but I hate the band. I think I'll buy it"A sentence that was never told
― nostormo, Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:25 (ten years ago) link
http://cdn.straightfromthea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/blankstare-CtA.gif
― Tyskie in the giro (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:30 (ten years ago) link
here to rep for 'Ocean Songs' which i think is one of the most beautiful sounding records i've ever heard.
― Jamie_ATP, Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:34 (ten years ago) link
It's interesting to compare Seamonsters, which he recorded, against The Wedding Present's Hit Parade stuff which is of a similar style but sounds pretty terrible largely. Seamonsters sounds incredible; not austere at all with its soaring guitars and, yes, Albini drums. In this one example I do think he added so much that he should possibly deserve royalties.
― kraudive, Thursday, 26 September 2013 22:55 (ten years ago) link
"my mechanic only works on cars he respects on an aesthetic level"
This line on the thread got me to chuckle as I pictured one of those mechanics that works on just BMWs or Jaguars.
― earlnash, Thursday, 26 September 2013 23:07 (ten years ago) link
Albini gets a great live drum sound, Unfortunately, that same sound seems to be what he gets out of everything else, too.
Anyway, his work with Low and Bedhead show what he can do in mellower circumstances. In some ways, the lack of a pounding drummer in those situations forced him to do better with everything else.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2013 23:52 (ten years ago) link
If you don't know, Lil BUB is the latest deformed kitty to take the inter-tubes by storm, following in the paw-prints of the now-legendary Grumpy Cat. The gal has no teeth so her tongue constantly hangs out and has some kind of drawfism so she remains an eternal kitten with tiny, unbelievably adorable front paws. Here she is:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Lil_Bub_2013.jpg/800px-Lil_Bub_2013.jpg
Yeah, well Lil BUB has a YouTube show. In what might one day culturally rival Alice Cooper on the Muppet Show or the punk rock episode of CHiPS, the guest in the third episode is famed funnyman Steve Albini. Here is the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn0GvRpthJ4
I cannot wait for the whole episode in two days...
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
lil bub's owner is an electrical audio board guy i think
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
i wonder if there is video of albini interviewing nate silver
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 20:01 (ten years ago) link
Always a good reason to repost this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWrVQTlonc
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 21:06 (ten years ago) link
"They're HUGE in the world of math rock."
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
I went to this last December. Albini asked Silver something along the lines of: "Why go into election stats instead of going to Wall Street and becoming a billionaire?" And Silver talked about how high the bar was for Wall Street quants, and how he was more excited to be in a field where doing a B+ job felt like an A-grade job, where there was that kind of skill gap.
(Also played cards with them that evening.)
― LinkedIn Beef (Eazy), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link
I hear Nate Silver is a good poker player.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 21:23 (ten years ago) link
Good player, great guy, happy to talk politics and baseball at the card table.
― LinkedIn Beef (Eazy), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 21:41 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW4mwjSIkoE&feature=share
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 5 October 2013 13:47 (ten years ago) link
Steve Albini drives a PT cruiser
― global tetrahedron, Saturday, 5 October 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
i'm going to pretend you didnt say that
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 5 October 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=815166#p815166
― global tetrahedron, Saturday, 5 October 2013 17:11 (ten years ago) link
;_;
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 5 October 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
pt cruiser is very much in character
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 5 October 2013 17:48 (ten years ago) link
the only bad thing about driving a PT cruiser is when you pass another PT cruiser and the driver looks at you with a knowing smile
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 5 October 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
hope the pt cruiser has truck nutz
― mookieproof, Saturday, 5 October 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
just plz tell me it's not a convertible
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 5 October 2013 19:52 (ten years ago) link
Know why he must like it? Quality engineering.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 5 October 2013 21:24 (ten years ago) link
i wanted him to drive a beatup GMC A-Team van
you guys I'm really bummed out by this
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 6 October 2013 03:23 (ten years ago) link
then again I heard a while ago that Maynard gets around LA in a smartcar which made me lol so, idk...maybe I can get over this
Problem with Music sequel, of sorts:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albinis-keynote-address-at-face-the-music-in-full
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:12 (nine years ago) link
Imagine a great hall of fetishes where whatever you felt like fucking or being fucked by, however often your tastes might change, no matter what hardware or harnesses were required, you could open the gates and have at it on a comfy mattress at any time of day. That’s what the internet has become for music fans. Plus bleacher seats for a cheering section.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:20 (nine years ago) link
"for music fans"
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:21 (nine years ago) link
Once we release music it’s out of our control. I use the verb “release” because it’s common vernacular. But I think it’s a perfect description. Even more apt if you consider what happens when you release other things, say a bird or a fart. When you release them they’re in the world and the world will react and use them as it sees fit. The fart may wrinkle noses until it dissipates. The bird may fly outside and crap on windshields; it may get shot down by a farmer. It’s been released, so you have no control over it. You can’t recall the fart, however much you would like to. You can’t protect the bird.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:23 (nine years ago) link
Music has entered the environment as an atmospheric element, like the wind, and in that capacity should not be subject to control and compensation. Well, not unless the rights holders are willing to let me turn the tables on it. If you think my listening is worth something, OK then, so do I. Play a Phil Collins song while I’m grocery shopping? Pay me $20. Def Leppard? Make it $100. Miley Cyrus? They don’t print money big enough.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:27 (nine years ago) link
piece is written like a true libertarian
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:49 (nine years ago) link
I mean he's not wrong but there's some serious social darwinism implications to his stance (ie if bands can't make a living at their music it's their tough shit for not being good enough, and the old system that protected them was wrong to do so)
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:50 (nine years ago) link
remember back when Albini would take potshots at like, Fugazi. now he's just making Miley jokes like everyone else.
― ƋППṍӮɨ∏ğڵșěᶉᶇдM℮ (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 17 November 2014 18:52 (nine years ago) link
Albini thinks the old system didn't protect the vast majority of bands at all. That's basically the whole thesis of the first "Problem With Music" and he reiterates it in the new one.
― JRN, Monday, 17 November 2014 18:59 (nine years ago) link
I think his point is that it's a wash. Yes, people make less money from selling records, but the flipside is that distro is virtually nothing, recording costs are a fraction of what they once were, and (at least established) bands potentially make more money playing live than they used to.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 November 2014 19:01 (nine years ago) link
ie if bands can't make a living at their music it's their tough shit for not being good enough
this is true tho. how many bands do we really need? only a couple are really entitled livings imo, the other 100000000 bands the world is currently blessed with? extraneous to literally everyone... no?
― shmurda on da shmorient shmexpress (sleepingbag), Monday, 17 November 2014 19:05 (nine years ago) link
if bands can't make a living at their music it's their tough shit for not being good enough
I would bet an amusingly large sum of money on this not being an accurate reading of his views
― proper maoist (DJ Mencap), Monday, 17 November 2014 19:08 (nine years ago) link
to answer the OP, albini is currently waiting for a train
― ya'll are the ones who don't know things (Karl Malone), Monday, 17 November 2014 19:08 (nine years ago) link
what's interesting about his argument (well one thing interesting about it) is that the atomization of culture doesn't bother him. He thinks it's great to have a million different micro-scenes sustaining themselves but essentially isolated from each other. Which okay yeah it has its virtues. But it makes every scene feel so *small* and insignificant.
xp
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 19:09 (nine years ago) link
only a couple are really entitled livings imo, the other 100000000 bands the world is currently blessed with? extraneous to literally everyone... no?
exactly. the market works!
I see an awful lot of packed shows these days. These micro-scenes get out the vote.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 November 2014 19:10 (nine years ago) link
Is his point that it's a wash? The thesis seemed stronger than that, on my first reading. I read Albini as saying that things are better now, given how critical he was in the past:
I’ll start by saying that I’m both satisfied and optimistic about the state of the music scene. And I welcome the social and technological changes that have influenced it.
Although they are largely anecdotal, the picture he paints of the pre-Internet industry seems more or less right. The radically increased accessibility of recording technology is definitely great for musicians, although this seems related only tangentially to the changes in the distribution system of the finished products. And the increased accessibility of music is obviously good for listeners, at least in the short term. However, on first reading, I do not see that he really makes a strong case for how 'the new model' allows musicians to make a living from their music, aside from charging higher prices for live performance: it seems to depend too strongly on the voluntary goodness of audiences and on sales of "ephemera and merchandise" (in which case musicians are really making living from things that are incidental to the music).
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 17 November 2014 19:43 (nine years ago) link
he seems much more positive to me
he does not actually address what musicians who have seen their incomes collapse are supposed to do, or whose fault that is
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 19:51 (nine years ago) link
I think that's what he's saying "optimistic" - that he doesn't see the effect of these changes on the "industry" as cause for concern, as he thought the industry was pretty shit
definitely libertariany and I'm bummed he devolves into pop-baiting at the end just in case anyone forgot he could, but he does give a little more historical context beyond "my hit in the 90s used to make me this much, now i get this much"
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 19:52 (nine years ago) link
also, from albini's perspective, most musicians who've seen their incomes collapse were already "fucked" in his pov twenty years ago
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 19:57 (nine years ago) link
Also, first four Def Leppard albums obv = classic
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 17 November 2014 19:58 (nine years ago) link
he's saying what I always wished more indie lifers would say -- music becoming much much cheaper to record, cheaper to distribute, cheaper to hear is a net win for everybody, and it hurts people at the top far more than it hurts people who just wanna make whatever they want and/or hear whatever they want and aren't too considered with becoming rich rock stars.
― nakhchi little van (some dude), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:04 (nine years ago) link
I do wish he'd made clearer that he must think Spotify is a sick joke. It's going to be too easy for people to ignore the bit about "hybrid approaches" and pretend he's signing off on every type of "brave new world" we're being offered
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:05 (nine years ago) link
it hurts people that used to be at the top of the music industry. It is absolutely awesome for people at the top of the tech industry. old boss same as the new boss etc.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:06 (nine years ago) link
it's funny how he can get so het up about the intense machinations of the gargantuan dinosaur music industry and then give not a single sentence of consideration to the tech industry, which has basically just replaced the tech industry and still funnels money upwards, away from musicians.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:07 (nine years ago) link
lol replaced the OLD MUSIC INDUSTRY that should say
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:08 (nine years ago) link
OTM
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:08 (nine years ago) link
I mean who does he think really makes money off of youtube etc
miley
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:09 (nine years ago) link
I mean I'm sure radio appeared ABSOLUTELY INSANELY AWESOME to the first musicians that got played on it, and they were more than happy to do whatever just to be on it, sign away rights, not pay any attention to where money was going etc. until oh wait it's four decades later look how that whole industry turned out oh what do you mean someone else owns all my publishing and has been collecting my royalty checks...?
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:10 (nine years ago) link
I really like how he pointed out internet making international distribution so easy to do now, it'll be interesting to watch music culture be less and less America-centric in the future.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:11 (nine years ago) link
he's definitely in that realm of indie iconoclasts who focus their bile on peers but get a little vague when it comes to the world outside. quick to point out how someone is failing to be as cool as music dude as him, strong feelings about the ethical treatment of room sound. less confident when it comes to evils he doesn't see first-hand.
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:13 (nine years ago) link
i mean when the dude from cracker is going on about how the majors found a new way to steal his "low" money, steve's going to be a little more interested in saying "told you so, shoulda stuck with pitch-a-tent" than "yes, start-ups are evil"
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:15 (nine years ago) link
that sounds about right
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:17 (nine years ago) link
outic otm. it's just a new industry sorting itself out, capital catching up to a pretty radical technological break that has made a temporary space for culture that will lose/is losing the battle again.
― mattresslessness, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:21 (nine years ago) link
it's definitely his own fault he's getting sum-ups like this
Stereogum @stereogum 59m59 minutes agoSteve Albini still loves online streaming, hates Miley Cyrus http://bit.ly/1uFPe2c
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:30 (nine years ago) link
hope somebody makes an image for a spotify debate article with Taylor Swift and Bob Seger on the anti-side and dave grohl and steve on the pro
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:32 (nine years ago) link
I'd actually love to see a breakdown of what a band makes now vs. 15-25-35 years ago (be most interesting by some sort of median success metric so the platinum artists of their era vs. whatever exactly approximates that these days on down to the bar bands). Obviously return on recorded media is going to be lower, but cost/distribution of same also less and I do wonder if touring is more lucrative now.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:52 (nine years ago) link
Has touring ever been lucrative since recordings became the mainstay of the industry?
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:54 (nine years ago) link
let's ask Mick Jagger
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:55 (nine years ago) link
"ethical treatment of room sound"?
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Monday, 17 November 2014 20:56 (nine years ago) link
Anecdotal but it's far from lucrative for the serious rock musicians I know. If the purpose of touring in the 'old model' was to promote recordings, i.e. it was not profitable in itself, have ticket prices (or audiences) really increased enough to make this a sustainable income source in and of itself?
2xpost
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:56 (nine years ago) link
I wasn't (and am not) talking about the handful of stars on Jagger's level.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:57 (nine years ago) link
xp Probably not but I don't think under the "old model" touring money plus recordings = to a sustainable income for most people either.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2014 20:59 (nine years ago) link
Tbh, I haven't really noticed a radical jump in ticket/gig prices, relative to inflation. Would be curious to see stats.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 17 November 2014 21:00 (nine years ago) link
Definitely much more expensive in San Francisco.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2014 21:00 (nine years ago) link
sorry, acoustics
― da croupier, Monday, 17 November 2014 21:01 (nine years ago) link
yeah I know just joeks... seriously from my anecdotal evidence it seems p lucrative on the high end and then as you move down the ladder it gets less and less lucrative. To the point where a four-person band in a van is going to be constantly struggling to break even from city to city. But it seems like this has been the case for a long time.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 November 2014 21:01 (nine years ago) link
long Alibini disqusitions like this are pretty rare anyway and this one's fun imo
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Monday, 17 November 2014 21:06 (nine years ago) link
i was with him until the hall of fetishes
― example (crüt), Monday, 17 November 2014 21:19 (nine years ago) link
he seems really hung up abt sex
― mattresslessness, Monday, 17 November 2014 21:21 (nine years ago) link
Songs About Fucking Over Managers And Labels That Used To Make A Comfortable Living
― nakhchi little van (some dude), Monday, 17 November 2014 21:22 (nine years ago) link
What if your fetish is to be fucked by a corporation? Do you get a pass?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 November 2014 21:39 (nine years ago) link
A new CD, when The Problem With Music was published, cost $27-31, and an international band’s show cost $30. Now a new CD costs $13-22, and as he says in the speech, an international band’s show costs $60-120.
― the incredible string gland (sic), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 00:49 (nine years ago) link
Well, I was comparing gig prices to inflation, not to CD prices, which have obviously dropped. But yeah, the Bank of Canada's inflation calculator says that a basket of goods that cost $30 in 1993 would cost $46.79 today so if ticket prices are 2-4x what they were, that would be considerable.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 00:53 (nine years ago) link
Sorry, it would cost $44.04.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 00:54 (nine years ago) link
I'd actually love to see a breakdown of what a band makes now vs. 15-25-35 years ago (be most interesting by some sort of median success metric so the platinum artists of their era vs. whatever exactly approximates that these days on down to the bar bands). Obviously return on recorded media is going to be lower, but cost/distribution of same also less and I do wonder if touring is more lucrative now.― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, November 17, 2014 2:52 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
The answer is: fuck no because of gas prices
― i did it all for the 'nuki (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:00 (nine years ago) link
Concert prices (in the US, I'm assuming?) are 43% higher than they were three years ago, according to this: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=87981&page=1
OK.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:01 (nine years ago) link
File under new methods of fart collecting.
― forbodingly titled It's True! It's True! (Eazy), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:10 (nine years ago) link
The answer is: fuck no because of gas prices --i did it all for the 'nuki (upper mississippi sh@kedown)
I'm sure that hurts but I'd still like to see it all broken down.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:22 (nine years ago) link
A new CD, when The Problem With Music was published, cost $27-31
does anybody know anybody who actually paid 27-31 dollars for a new CD in '92? I had a CD player and bought CDs. They cost about 15 bucks.
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:26 (nine years ago) link
i think this is a canada thing
remember thinking it must suck to live in canada when i bought comics as a kid
― da croupier, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:26 (nine years ago) link
MSRP on CDs back then was like $18-19, which would get marked down to $12-13 at a big box retailer. What really has dropped was list for doubles, which usually MSRP'd then for $30-40.
― Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:46 (nine years ago) link
Albini was not speaking in North America.
― the incredible string gland (sic), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 01:49 (nine years ago) link
if he was referring to the market in Australia, then i can confirm that new CDs in '92 sold in the ballpark of 30 AUD.
― charlie h, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 02:01 (nine years ago) link
which felt like a substantial rip-off even at the time.
― charlie h, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 02:02 (nine years ago) link
music becoming much much cheaper to record, cheaper to distribute, cheaper to hear is a net win for everybody,
if you consider a market that allows Burger Records to exist / flourish a "net win," sure
― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 02:41 (nine years ago) link
ahahaha
― sleeve, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 02:48 (nine years ago) link
what's wrong with burger records
― don't ask me why i posted this (electricsound), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 02:49 (nine years ago) link
burgers aren't records!
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 02:54 (nine years ago) link
xp sorry I couldn't help it, imo they suffer a bit in the quality control department but I like some of the releases
― sleeve, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 03:02 (nine years ago) link
and yes I consider it a net win overall for people to have cheap access to the means of production, sometimes bad bands get good later
― sleeve, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 03:04 (nine years ago) link
i think they've tightened up their QC quite a bit recently, but tbf that's referring to their own actual releases not when they're acting as the tape manufacturing arm of other labels xp
― don't ask me why i posted this (electricsound), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 03:05 (nine years ago) link
ah that makes sense, they are pretty big around these parts
― sleeve, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 03:07 (nine years ago) link
I saw JAMC for £6 in 1987, which is £15.36 in today's money. I'm seeing them again on Friday in the same venue for £31.50 plus booking fee. So prices have doubled for that one band in that one venue.
It's difficult to compare like for like as these anniversary nostalgia tours sell quickly at inflated prices thanks to sad old fucks like me but that's a huge increase.
― doesn’t matter what the content is, as long as it’s content (onimo), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 11:16 (nine years ago) link
yes definitely, likewise Reading festival ticket was £78 in 1999, which is £119 in today's money. Last year's festival ticket price was £213.
― jamiesummerz, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 12:35 (nine years ago) link
The first time I saw Fugazi in 89 it was £3.50, the last time I saw them in 2002 it was £7.50 (source: Fugazi live show archive) so ignoring the fact the prices are artificially low even their tickets cost more than doubled in a little over 10 years.
― the bowels are not what they seem (aldo), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 12:47 (nine years ago) link
Screw Fugazi, those selfish, money-grubbing jerks!
The Eagles in the mid'70s cost around $6 a ticket. Now, it's more like $1 million. But they're selling fewer records.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 12:52 (nine years ago) link
Also, t-shirt prices have skyrocket. You can't download a t-shirt.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 12:53 (nine years ago) link
yet
― bizarro gazzara, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 12:59 (nine years ago) link
I conceded the point about ticket prices already, referring to actual statistics.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 13:03 (nine years ago) link
Fuck statistics, we have anecdotal evidence!
― doesn’t matter what the content is, as long as it’s content (onimo), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 13:46 (nine years ago) link
in the DIY punk or 'eternally unsuccessful' sphere of things entry fees to gigs have been stuck around the £5 mark in the UK since time immemorial. attempts to whack it up to a price that reflects the costs involved tends to get raised eyebrows and/or no-one turning up because they think it's too expensive
― proper maoist (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 14:08 (nine years ago) link
I'd compare more "price to see a new relatively unknown band" in 1977 vs. "new relatively unknown band" in 2014 instead of comparing ticket prices to see the same band.
― forbodingly titled It's True! It's True! (Eazy), Tuesday, 18 November 2014 14:50 (nine years ago) link
Well, new relatively unknown bands are in no position to make any money until they are less new and better known, so comparison is moot.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 14:52 (nine years ago) link
so is the comparison of a band 3 years into their career and 25 years in.
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 15:00 (nine years ago) link
But i think albinis point is that Shellac now is playing the same sized venues as Shellac then, but getting more money. Right?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 15:08 (nine years ago) link
Here you can compare ticket prices for bands at the small level.
http://www.bottomofthehill.com/calendar_archives.html
In 1997 you could see bands at a small club for $5 (Dandy Warhols, Blonde Redhead) -$10 (Yo La Tengo, Pavement).Now those ticket prices have almost doubled...$10-20.Inflation: $10 in 1997 is about $15 today.
― asthmatic american, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 15:10 (nine years ago) link
i think it's important to remember he's also fine with this not working for "everybody" - he's not saying that the income loss reported doesn't EXIST, but that he's comfortable with an evolution that still potentially lets cool people make cool music, and lets "the music industry" collapse under its own weight
― da croupier, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 15:16 (nine years ago) link
he even cops to being in the dark about subcultures other than his own - guessing anecdotally the indie rockers he likes are doing their thing better or worse, the ones complaining he thinks are the weak ones in the herd anyway
― da croupier, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 15:21 (nine years ago) link
and to be clear, i'm not arguing the dude isn't to some degree a libertarian "i got mine" jerk, even if i appreciate the context and detail he's provided
― da croupier, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 15:23 (nine years ago) link
More like Albini is in I told you so mode. Like, serves you right for where you ended up, if you had listened to me you'd be lecturing in Melbourne too. Though it is some sort of tautology to basically note the ones losing the most money are the ones with the most money.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 15:25 (nine years ago) link
what abt the painting & sculpture industry
― am0n, Wednesday, 19 November 2014 19:30 (nine years ago) link
scare quotes or nixon impression
http://oi58.tinypic.com/t86pf9.jpg
― am0n, Wednesday, 19 November 2014 19:35 (nine years ago) link
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/kot/ct-second-city-never-sleeps-heather-whinna-steve-albini-20141211-18-column.html
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 December 2014 19:53 (nine years ago) link
Letters to Santa might bring to mind a school exercise, "like writing a letter to Santa asking for a new GI Joe or Barbie doll," says Albini, who spends most of the year engineering punk-rock records at his North Side studio or recording and playing with his band Shellac. "The reality is that these letters are usually from heads of household with nowhere to turn. What would it take for a grown-up to write a letter to Santa to ask for help? It's not casual want. These are people who have no support on earth taking a random shot. Those were the letters that broke my heart the most."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 December 2014 19:54 (nine years ago) link
America is so sad
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 December 2014 21:59 (nine years ago) link
this mostly made me lol but i'm sure someone will find a way to empathize with this well-told tale of SA's overzealous hero worshiphttp://thetalkhouse.com/music/talks/marissa-paternoster-screaming-females-talks/
― La Lechera, Monday, 10 August 2015 00:18 (eight years ago) link
steve is a funny old cove:
http://thequietus.com/articles/18882-powell-vs-steve-albini
― Ray Chard (NickB), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 11:31 (eight years ago) link
"I've always detested mechanized dance music, its stupid simplicity, the clubs where it was played, the people who went to those clubs, the drugs they took, the shit they liked to talk about, the clothes they wore, the battles they fought amongst each other... basically all of it, 100 percent hated every scrap."Oh dear. Albini continued: "The electronic music I liked was radical and different, shit like the White Noise, Xenakis, Suicide, Kraftwerk, and the earliest stuff form Cabaret Voltaire, SPK and DAF. When that scene and those people got co-opted by dance/club music I felt like we'd lost a war. I detest club culture as deeply as I detest anything on earth. So I am against what you're into, and an enemy of where you come from".
Oh dear. Albini continued: "The electronic music I liked was radical and different, shit like the White Noise, Xenakis, Suicide, Kraftwerk, and the earliest stuff form Cabaret Voltaire, SPK and DAF. When that scene and those people got co-opted by dance/club music I felt like we'd lost a war. I detest club culture as deeply as I detest anything on earth. So I am against what you're into, and an enemy of where you come from".
seems so weird having such an entrenched position on this in 2015. unless he's just kidding around of course
― Ray Chard (NickB), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 11:36 (eight years ago) link
"The electronic music I liked was radical and different, shit like the White Noise, Xenakis, Suicide, Kraftwerk, and the earliest stuff form Cabaret Voltaire, SPK and DAF"
^ ironically i can now only hear this in my head in the LFO Frequencies intro voice
― Ray Chard (NickB), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:06 (eight years ago) link
I totally agree with him. In 1992, when I was 20 and didn't know shit and thought my opinion on others peoples' lives mattered to them and the world at large.
― jimmy falloff (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:08 (eight years ago) link
(Cool that he DGAF about the sample, though.)
― jimmy falloff (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:09 (eight years ago) link
That's a very odd way of responding to a sample request. Funny though!
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:09 (eight years ago) link
can't figure out what war he is fighting here and why
― Ray Chard (NickB), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:13 (eight years ago) link
i think there is something sorta charming about having this position in 2015
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:26 (eight years ago) link
"Would you like butter or margarine on your toast, Mr Albini?"
*5-minute rant about the suffering of factory cows and the evils of the petroleum industry. Then:*"IDGAF, whatever."
― hardcore dilettante, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:41 (eight years ago) link
He's just answering an email requesting permission to sample his voice, and trying to do so with dignity instead of just "No" or "Don't care."
― I know some Civil War re-enactors you might want to talk to (Eazy), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:42 (eight years ago) link
Thinking it's weird and acting all baffled because someone articulated the view that club culture is stupid and detestable is baffling and weird. A firmly entrenched view that clubs and dance music are unassailable is much more bizarre.
Albini surmised that someone was just trying to scrape up a bit of interest in their record. Rote response from him. Bingo! Get the Quietus to scratch a tiny piece of content out of this pretend-beef, without which the story would be "someone just made another house record".
― everything, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:42 (eight years ago) link
He's just answering an email requesting permission to sample his voice, and trying to do so with dignity instead of just "No" or "Don't care." --I know some Civil War re-enactors you might want to talk to (Eazy)
Shorter ways of saying "sure" though surely. There is something a bit "I have to make sure you know how I feel about the thing."
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:46 (eight years ago) link
Powell probably wrote a horribly condescending or patronizing email. Albini could print it up for the cover of his next record. Maybe a blog would write about that. But probably not because that would be stupid.
― everything, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 12:50 (eight years ago) link
He was trying to clear a sample of course he did!
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 13:09 (eight years ago) link
Irony is with Albini an assholish letter dripping with contempt would have equally served.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 13:13 (eight years ago) link
I'm pleasantly impressed by the consistency of both Abini and MacKaye in their later years. They've been grouch ascetics for years, but they're not without humor, and to this day afaict tell if you want to talk to them you just give them a call where they work.
Speaking of which, for those that missed it I found this recent interview with MacKaye honestly inspiring:http://www.huckmagazine.com/art-and-culture/ian-mackaye-survival-issue-interview/
This was one of my favorite bits:
But I hate to talk so much about the fucking computer. The fact that it’s dominating this conversation is a sickness. All we can talk about is our devices. For the last decade, society has been stoned on technology. If we’re living through a screen, we’re not doing anything. I thought a lot about the psychological effects of an office. People working eight, ten, twelve hours a day. Look up from that computer, look around you, and nothing has moved. Never in the history of the world have people worked ten hours and nothing has moved. Imagine if you were sweeping for twelve hours how clean your fucking house would be? The dirty plate next to your computer? It’s still there! As a society, there’s gotta be a psychological effect. I don’t know what it will be, but at some point, people will sit back and realise that this is a tool. And that life – real life – is outside of it. I can accept it’s a miracle that we’re talking across an ocean, but fuck if I’m gonna live in it! I wanna go outside, too. If you want to talk about real navigation, one should seek balance. If the right foot and left foot are out of whack, then you go down.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 13:32 (eight years ago) link
Oh noes, Steve doesn't like some bleep-blorp music! We need a thinkpiece!
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 13:56 (eight years ago) link
People working eight, ten, twelve hours a day. Look up from that computer, look around you, and nothing has moved. Never in the history of the world have people worked ten hours and nothing has moved. Imagine if you were sweeping for twelve hours how clean your fucking house would be? The dirty plate next to your computer? It’s still there! As a society, there’s gotta be a psychological effect.
imagine a nation of pianists, their fingers moving all day and nothing changing around them.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 14:50 (eight years ago) link
playing guitar all day is obviously different because you can hop around
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 14:51 (eight years ago) link
real physical music made with real physical guitars
― Neil S, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 14:52 (eight years ago) link
a good retort from ian would be "sir, when i'm done working, the people around me are visibly moved."
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 14:53 (eight years ago) link
Except they're not, because he sternly chided them for moshing and crowd-surfing.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 15:00 (eight years ago) link
"Oh noes, Steve doesn't like some bleep-blorp music! We need a thinkpiece!"
Pretty sure the Quietus thing does not qualify as a thinkpiece.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 15:22 (eight years ago) link
It doesn't but I am assuming one is coming
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 15:46 (eight years ago) link
that mackaye interview was excellent thank you.
― new noise, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 15:49 (eight years ago) link
― everything, Tuesday, September 29, 2015 1:42 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is otm.
i like quite a bit of albini's projects.
powell using the email correspondence as a tongue-in-cheek marketing scheme is pretty off-putting. i'm interested to see what he does with it in the music video.
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 18:20 (eight years ago) link
Powell makes techno, not house. There's a world of difference
― paolo, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 18:40 (eight years ago) link
It also sounds quite a lot like Cab Vol, SPK and DAF (sort of)
― paolo, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 18:41 (eight years ago) link
'It' being the music that Powell makes
to the last, i grapple with club culture; from hell's heart, i stab at club culture; for hate's sake, i spit my last breath at club culture
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 18:45 (eight years ago) link
I do think that its noteworthy that he does not seemed to have budged an inch from 1986 or so. I suppose the club culture that he would have had more proximity to would be…like, white people with peacock-ish haircuts dancing to Information society, maybe?
Not that what he dislikes is indivisible from black culture, but he seems to completely lack any inclination to engage with black music post…like what exactly? There was this oral history of whichever Tortoise record awhile back, where one of the guys related talking to him about house music or a remix or something to him, and he was indignant or bewildered that anyone would do such a thing. and while I was around him once or twice growing up in and being peripherally involved in the 80s Louisville scene, the first I ever heard of him was in Spin, inveighing somewhat questionably about "beatbox rap."
― veronica moser, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:01 (eight years ago) link
Powell sounds like the whitest thing ever tbh.
― everything, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:05 (eight years ago) link
Big Black covered James Brown.
― everything, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:06 (eight years ago) link
Also Rick James.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:20 (eight years ago) link
I suppose covering the odd r'n'b standard is still considered pretty rad in some parts:p
― xelab, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:26 (eight years ago) link
facebook discussion on Xhukk's page mentions that indeed Powell makes the kinda shit he might dig.
he simply couldn't simply say "yes" or "no thank you." he had to pedantically explain his decades-old grudge against music intended for dancing to a guy who likes what he does but who he had to cast as his ideological opponent. not consonant with his more avuncular role as a facilitator for younger musicians…gotta be G/B/D, I guess.
― veronica moser, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:28 (eight years ago) link
he obviously did this guy a favor by giving him a shitload of free PR, idg how this can be interpreted any other way
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:30 (eight years ago) link
he gets to a) play the role of "Steve Albini" (which he clearly enjoys) and b) this guy gets a ton of attention, it's a win-win
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:32 (eight years ago) link
and everyone is stupider
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:40 (eight years ago) link
I'm gonna go check out electrical audio boards… I reckon he will have no opposition as such today…
― veronica moser, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:42 (eight years ago) link
why would anyone ever do that for any reason
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:43 (eight years ago) link
Is this really a shitload of free PR and a ton of attention? Pretty sure Powell gets more press at this point than Albini does.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:48 (eight years ago) link
well I'd never heard of him before
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:50 (eight years ago) link
(not that that's indicative of anything than my own cloistered existence)
go to electrical audio? when his stans are not sucking his dick or complaining about the 80s/90s midwest milieu having passed its prime, it can be pretty interesting, particularly from a gear perspective, which ILM doesn't rilly fuck with. they love to talk about "Tone attorneys," the lawyers who go to chicago blues bars, venerate Eric Johnson and buy paul reed smiths and rare aluminum guitars that those guys can't afford.
― veronica moser, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:53 (eight years ago) link
"why would anyone" go to EA?…xpost
― veronica moser, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:54 (eight years ago) link
oh cool a sausagefest inside a sausagefest
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:57 (eight years ago) link
nah i'm being a smartass i'm sure the gear talk is great.
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 21:58 (eight years ago) link
anyway powell is ok and also "white" in the sense that a lot of white dudes in the uk and germany are reverent about detroit and chicago, also part of a club culture of which there are many all over the world, many more in fact than there are of aging midwestern u.s. blowhard cultures.
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 22:04 (eight years ago) link
idk about that aging midwestern US blowhards still seem to be kicking a lot of ass afaict
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 22:08 (eight years ago) link
I hadn't either and what I heard through laptop speakers while eating lunch sounded great (also in the vein of the noisy stuff Albini likes)!
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 22:20 (eight years ago) link
he has a track called 'Wharton Tiers on Drums'
― + +, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 22:26 (eight years ago) link
Obviously it's weird for him to go on an unsolicited rant, but perhaps he's responding to something specific in the original email. Who knows? I'm just glad that Albini's back to being predictably Albini! It got confusing there for a while, what with his cooking blog and his pro-streaming interviews!
― intheblanks, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 22:27 (eight years ago) link
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, October 4, 2011 10:50 AM (3 years ago)
club culture has never meant dick to me either but ymmv
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 22:30 (eight years ago) link
there's so much music that's part of 'club culture' but also working against it that's just as noisy and underground as he wants, but who cares.
― lil urbane (Jordan), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 22:36 (eight years ago) link
yeah, it seems like he would like it, unless nothing can change his unbending, reflexive disdain the ostensible means by which it was produced…
SA responds to on board: the guy who challenges him is not a native english speaker and so there is some mild condescension from Albini's sycophants…
http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66456
― veronica moser, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 23:03 (eight years ago) link
"What I said is that I hate club music and culture, and always have. That's it.
I also hate the Tea Party and its culture. I hate Football and its culture. I hate the White Power movement and its culture. I hate shopping malls and their culture. I hate the Confederacy and its culture. I hate fancy restaurants and foodie culture. I hate reality TV and whatever culture it displays or inspires. I hate pop music and its culture."
can we poll steve's hates?
― hunangarage, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 23:13 (eight years ago) link
too many poptimists on ilxor. "i hate pop music and its culture" will win because snark
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 23:40 (eight years ago) link
somewhere on that EA thread, albs expands on what it is that he dislikes:
I am objecting to the music and the timewasting/preening/showoff/drugging/profiteering/status-seeking/taxonomically-obsesseive/faddish/stylistically rigid/conceptually barren aspects of club culture, and again, the unbearably stupid music. If it has emancipatory potential, that would be great and I couldn't possibly object to it.I love, for example, the way disco gave the gay community an avenue into mainstream culture and a platform for unironic flamboyance. Hated discos themselves and the much larger non-gay disco audience of silk shirt cokeheads, ditzy chicks and the upper crust having a spin. Hated it hated it hated it. That music was fucking awful. Those clubs were hell. Those people and the mob that profited off them were the fucking worst. Nice one Sylvester.
I love, for example, the way disco gave the gay community an avenue into mainstream culture and a platform for unironic flamboyance. Hated discos themselves and the much larger non-gay disco audience of silk shirt cokeheads, ditzy chicks and the upper crust having a spin. Hated it hated it hated it. That music was fucking awful. Those clubs were hell. Those people and the mob that profited off them were the fucking worst. Nice one Sylvester.
― Ray Chard (NickB), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 23:47 (eight years ago) link
This correspondence had similar overtones, but it's about the ethics of civet poop coffeehttp://sprudge.com/a-letter-from-steve-albini-39266.html
LIKES: civet poop coffeeDISLIKES: civet abuse
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 29 September 2015 23:51 (eight years ago) link
if anyone is in the have-opinions-for-money game and isn't too busy today there could be a good hot take fashioned out of Steve Albini and Claire Danes' respective attitudes to club culture
― Hector Ringtone (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 07:48 (eight years ago) link
I like a lot of the music that Albini hates but dance clubs stress me out so I can't fault him for feeling the way he does
― welltris (crüt), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 12:02 (eight years ago) link
"What I said is that I hate club music and culture, and always have. That's it.I also hate the Tea Party and its culture. I hate Football and its culture. I hate the White Power movement and its culture. I hate shopping malls and their culture. I hate the Confederacy and its culture. I hate fancy restaurants and foodie culture. I hate reality TV and whatever culture it displays or inspires. I hate pop music and its culture."
Man is a culture denier huh? #corbynJokes
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 12:31 (eight years ago) link
"stylistically rigid"
says the guy who has been making the same record for the last 30 years.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 13:05 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, if there's ever a word that encapsulates Albini and his MO it's rigid.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 13:20 (eight years ago) link
I think Albini's response is pretty spot on, actually, although obviously I love a lot of dance music. He let the guy do what he wanted to do, and gave him material for a video and ad out of it to boot (albeit inadvertently). I'm just amused by the fact that it's a story that Albini hates club music and club culture: of course he does, he's got one of the most dyed-in-the-wool aesthetics of any musician ever, and he's been a crotchety old man about what he believes in since his 20s.
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 14:49 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/UMveCfs.jpg
― octobeard, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 16:47 (eight years ago) link
he would not be kissin' up to gays in his 20s; i was there
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 16:47 (eight years ago) link
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Tuesday, September 29, 2015 8:26 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
really? what if Billy Corgan said the same thing? ... .... ... .. .
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 16:51 (eight years ago) link
Wonder if he also hates metal for being similarly "stylistically rigid".
― Evan, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 16:52 (eight years ago) link
probably!
― sleeve, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 16:53 (eight years ago) link
albini is a smart dude but smart dudes can still have some very dumb opinions too
― marcos, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 16:53 (eight years ago) link
i do want to see bob mould and albini team up to form a rival wrestling league to billy corgan's.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 16:57 (eight years ago) link
Mould wrote for WCW back in its heyday
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 17:02 (eight years ago) link
I guess I don't really understand when we get surprised by stuff like this, I mean of course Albini wouldn't like dance music anymore than I would be shocked if I read an interview with BB King and he would slag off modern pop or when Keith Richards said he didn't like Metallica. A lot of people who have done great work are very tunnel vision and I don't necessirly think that's a bad thing, opposed to people like I dunno Beck who have super wide ranging influences
being miopic can advantages
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 17:06 (eight years ago) link
Or like if you went to Chief Keef and said hey man you like Mission of Burma??? What's up? Cmoon man get with it
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 17:07 (eight years ago) link
xp who is surprised by it? It's just an amusing interaction.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 17:09 (eight years ago) link
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, September 30, 2015 12:57 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ill empty my bank account to make this happen
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 17:24 (eight years ago) link
did anyone look at this? it was so funny!
― La Lechera, Sunday, August 9, 2015 7:18 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark
― La Lechera, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:07 (eight years ago) link
That is funny.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:28 (eight years ago) link
Powell doesn't seem upset about it
http://thequietus.com/articles/18897-powell-albini-interview
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:34 (eight years ago) link
this fucking guy is the all-time <i>this fucking guy</i>
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:18 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xtZDkNAs0c
― scott seward, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 23:48 (eight years ago) link
it's kind of interesting & indicative of the internet in 2k15 how no one appears to be really interested in powell's response here or on ned's facebook
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 1 October 2015 15:31 (eight years ago) link
pretty much, yeah
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, 1 October 2015 16:05 (eight years ago) link
the flipside, though, is that a lot of people in 2015 have difficulty distinguishing between "appropriate for private conversation" and "appropriate for public conversation"
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, 1 October 2015 16:06 (eight years ago) link
everybody forgot about this already.
― scott seward, Thursday, 1 October 2015 16:14 (eight years ago) link
it never happened.
― scott seward, Thursday, 1 October 2015 16:15 (eight years ago) link
RIP techno music & steve albini
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 1 October 2015 17:13 (eight years ago) link
i wasn't really following this 'controversy;' seemed pretty clear from me from reading the email exchange that there was no beef between these guys. is that what people were going with?
― goole, Thursday, 1 October 2015 17:15 (eight years ago) link
Apparently Steve Albini said something grumpy and rockist about music. News.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 1 October 2015 17:27 (eight years ago) link
Just breaking
― Dinkytown Strutters' Ball (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 1 October 2015 17:28 (eight years ago) link
RIP, loved his work with Garbage and Shania Twain
― droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 1 October 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link
I don't know who the fuck Steve Albino is
― circa1916, Thursday, 1 October 2015 17:34 (eight years ago) link
guitar player in Todd Trainer's band
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 1 October 2015 17:36 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0FYWcn8mL0
― Dinkytown Strutters' Ball (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 1 October 2015 18:04 (eight years ago) link
Come on though, Albini being all disco sucks in 2015 is like if Adorno wrote to Brotzmann in 1967 warning him of the perils of hot jazz and gramophone records: 'it might be the music of black liberation but I hate those men in spats, I hate their gin joints, I hate their Charleston dancing and their funny hair and their ukeleles, but most of all I hate their stupid zigga-zagga-zizzle singing!'
― Haino Corrida (NickB), Thursday, 1 October 2015 18:58 (eight years ago) link
I don't think Albini is saying "disco sucks" so much as "Information Society sucks"
― welltris (crüt), Thursday, 1 October 2015 19:06 (eight years ago) link
I always imagined he was thinking about early Ministry/Waxtrax stuff
― sleeve, Thursday, 1 October 2015 19:08 (eight years ago) link
His why-disco-sucked post is upthread a bit
― Haino Corrida (NickB), Thursday, 1 October 2015 19:13 (eight years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=413&v=Oem6gEEajZU
― I know some Civil War re-enactors you might want to talk to (Eazy), Saturday, 3 October 2015 05:05 (eight years ago) link
^^"song with the sample
― I know some Civil War re-enactors you might want to talk to (Eazy), Saturday, 3 October 2015 05:06 (eight years ago) link
His why-disco-sucked post upthread is a bit ...
― the late great, Saturday, 3 October 2015 05:20 (eight years ago) link
anyway everybody otm itt
― the late great, Saturday, 3 October 2015 05:21 (eight years ago) link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-albini/why-i-havent-had-a-conventional-christmas-in-20-years_b_8614568.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact
― Amira, Queen of Creativity (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 21:08 (eight years ago) link
Disco hater
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 21:14 (eight years ago) link
teared up a lil at that tbh
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 21:15 (eight years ago) link
Steve once did something incredibly sweet and thoughtful for me and I asked him " if yr such as asshole how come you do such nice stuff for people" and he said "I dunno...irony?"
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 21:25 (eight years ago) link
Damn, I kinda want to hug Steve Albini.
― Capitalism Is A Death Cult And Science Is A Whore (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 25 November 2015 02:53 (eight years ago) link
If you haven't heard it, I implore everyone here to check out Helen Money's latest record, which was recorded by Mr. Albini. She's part of a wave of avant-garde cellists (see Julia Kent and Zoe Zkeating) who is really expanding my conception of what said instrument is capable of
― beamish13, Wednesday, 25 November 2015 04:07 (eight years ago) link
i take back whatever shit i said about fred armisen
― brimstead, Wednesday, 25 November 2015 06:21 (eight years ago) link
I first learned about his Letters To Santa tradition in the late 90s, too bad about the post office not letting them access that mail anymore. They should just redirect them to his house! Cool that Second City has done so much to raise funds.
Here's an excellent, long interview: http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episodes/episode_650_-_steve_albini
― Fastnbulbous, Wednesday, 25 November 2015 06:38 (eight years ago) link
http://www.listenlistenlisten.org/stevealbini/
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 May 2016 14:30 (seven years ago) link
He's OK, then?
― Mark G, Thursday, 5 May 2016 14:30 (seven years ago) link
Oh, yeah, sorry - he's OK. But it's a fascinating interview, imo.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 May 2016 14:32 (seven years ago) link
Maybe the best of its sort since that Ian MacKaye one that went around last year.
yeah I found that v interesting to read. to my knowledge (which probably has many gaps) it's the only time he's been put on the spot about 'Jordan, Minnesota' since the 80s?
― reader, if you love him so much why don't you marry him? (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 5 May 2016 16:10 (seven years ago) link
Has anyone ever taken him to task for Run N***** Run or (apparently, I've only ever seen this as an aside) praising Skrewdriver?
― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Friday, 6 May 2016 00:38 (seven years ago) link
I'm pretty sure he has an excellent answer to any questions about his past, so I don't think it's really worth asking him. He's very well-spoken.
― dlp9001, Friday, 6 May 2016 00:39 (seven years ago) link
I have no idea about either of those things, but I seem to recall the original incarnation of the latter bunch of national front assholes being not racist.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 6 May 2016 00:45 (seven years ago) link
that is the case yes
they are mentioned along with a dozen or so other acts in the liner notes to 'Sound of Impact' as examples of abrasive music he likes
― reader, if you love him so much why don't you marry him? (DJ Mencap), Friday, 6 May 2016 09:02 (seven years ago) link
I'm only sharing this cuz I'm in the article
http://www.ozy.com/good-sht/the-music-mastermind-behind-1000-bands/76847
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 27 April 2017 17:26 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPVDZV133kw
― city worker, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 19:55 (six years ago) link
That's hilarious.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 20:15 (six years ago) link
"Let's go after this song"
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 21:56 (six years ago) link
that fucking rules
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:28 (six years ago) link
2007 AMA on a poker msg board:http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11034555&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 19 December 2017 21:51 (six years ago) link
Are we celebrating its 10 yr anniversary? He does good Q&A.
I have pretty much always had a weird guitar sound. My early heroes were Johnny Ramone, Ricky Wilson, Keith Levine, Santiago Durango, Colin Newman and Andy Gill. I later came to appreciate (steal from) Billy Gibbons and Wilco Johnson as well.
I love how he used Urge Overkill as a stock answer for any "worst band/most difficult to work with/overrated" type questions.
Also, being the thirtieth reference to McLusky in this thread, it threatens to trivialize them in the way the rest of us hope to trivialize Urge Overkill.
I think you're a defeatist and you are destined not to enjoy music. If you wait for other people to thrust music under your nose, you'll be listening to nothing but crap for a long while, because that's what gets thrust at us. Music is not a spectator sport.
'I want Iggy to be as rich and popular as Justin Timberlake'Rich, okay, but what benefit is it to the world to have douchebags and Justin Timberlake fans listening to Iggy Pop? Not everything is for everybody, and I don't think everything is universally improved if you lay it on with a ladle.
Rich, okay, but what benefit is it to the world to have douchebags and Justin Timberlake fans listening to Iggy Pop? Not everything is for everybody, and I don't think everything is universally improved if you lay it on with a ladle.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 22 December 2017 17:40 (six years ago) link
This is fun, drumming podcast interview with Albini and his BB era drum machine - http://www.thetrapset.net/134-roland-steve-albini-big-black-rapeman-shellac/
― MaresNest, Friday, 22 December 2017 20:05 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vjn8u7HP1o
― tinnitus the night (Ross), Sunday, 25 March 2018 08:55 (five years ago) link
Steve Albini is down to heads up (ie last two players left) to win a championship bracelet at the World Series of Poker. (H/T @pkmonaghan) pic.twitter.com/m9BSKIxXul— Marc Masters (@Marcissist) June 17, 2018
― mookieproof, Sunday, 17 June 2018 06:20 (five years ago) link
Really appreciating that Cocaine Piss shirt
― circa1916, Sunday, 17 June 2018 06:37 (five years ago) link
apparently he won
― Simon H., Sunday, 17 June 2018 06:57 (five years ago) link
http://www.wsop.com/images/imagestore/flashlarge/Steven_Albini_2018_WSOP_EV31_Final_Table_Giron_8JG5835.jpg
― earlnash, Sunday, 17 June 2018 07:15 (five years ago) link
I don't understand any of this but it seems, uh, mighty clever?
https://www.pokernews.com/tours/wsop/2018-wsop/event-31-1500-stud/chips.216758.htm
― Simon H., Sunday, 17 June 2018 07:33 (five years ago) link
Wow - https://www.pokernews.com/tours/wsop/2018-wsop/event-31-1500-stud/https://pnimg.net/lrep/1966/80/b1c5ebd78fb.jpg
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Sunday, 17 June 2018 08:58 (five years ago) link
This is incredible
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, 17 June 2018 09:25 (five years ago) link
I read an interview once saying that poker is at least partially responsible for keeping Electrical Audio afloat.so awesome, first WSOP winner in a Cocaine Piss band t shirt haha
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 17 June 2018 12:35 (five years ago) link
Amazing.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 17 June 2018 13:21 (five years ago) link
saw this, and also very cool that he busted chris ferguson, who is a scam artist
― k3vin k., Sunday, 17 June 2018 15:40 (five years ago) link
Everything about this is perfect https://t.co/CcstyaD9Rf pic.twitter.com/WaWIoZXexi— dan sinker (@dansinker) June 17, 2018
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 17 June 2018 15:55 (five years ago) link
Ha, I can't believe that smile. That is hilarious.
― earlnash, Sunday, 17 June 2018 16:29 (five years ago) link
the idea of albino winning not a trophy or a belt for this but what looks like a transuclent green bracelet from he dollar store is hilarious to me
― CARL MARKS PRINCIPAL INVESTING AND ADVISORY SERVICES (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 17 June 2018 16:34 (five years ago) link
this is the only good story of the year
― Simon H., Sunday, 17 June 2018 16:41 (five years ago) link
Brian Callaci@brian_callaci21mReplying to @dansinkerReally disappointed to see Albini selling out to WSOP instead of supporting his local indie poker scene
― Kim Kimberly, Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 (five years ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/cokepiss/posts/1864045666985642
― StanM, Sunday, 17 June 2018 18:41 (five years ago) link
Good, long piece here about Steve & poker & winning et al
https://www.theringer.com/sports/2018/7/2/17524632/steve-albini-poker-world-series-champion
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 2 July 2018 16:22 (five years ago) link
That is a good article.
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Monday, 2 July 2018 17:09 (five years ago) link
Don't know where else to put this, but I learned about the existence of this in the WTF podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvrJxZ5iBcc
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 01:23 (five years ago) link
Thought this would revive would be an annual reminder about this:
https://www.ltschi.com/don127876te.html
but apparently Steve's goodwill knows no bounds, thanks for posting.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 01:47 (five years ago) link
but apparently Steve's goodwill knows no bounds
should have said "no limit"... lol
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 02:02 (five years ago) link
The Teeth record is really cool, I played with some folks at a live tribute to Grabski and we played the whole thing, I don't know who it sounded out in the room, but it was a wild thing to be a part of,
I know there was talk of some other recordings he made with Steve and possibly another record, but I'm not sure where all that is at.
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
It's like a cottage industry of mini Albini docs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86uTd_Y6vzg
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 January 2019 19:07 (five years ago) link
There's a new(ish) Kreative Kontrol podcast chat with Albini around too, it's good but I just wish Vish Khanna wasn't such a mush mouth.
― MaresNest, Monday, 14 January 2019 22:53 (five years ago) link
I am in the background at that home game, under the unflattering lights. Fun to have our home game archived like this.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 14 January 2019 23:24 (five years ago) link
I can't decide what's less interesting: watching people (especially celebrities) play poker or listening to a friend describe their fantasy football team.
― Sam Weller, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:33 (five years ago) link
Depends on the nicknames.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:48 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwkF3-JmSeA
― StanM, Sunday, 7 April 2019 11:02 (four years ago) link
"I have some of the worst pedals here, you're gonna love these"
― StanM, Sunday, 7 April 2019 11:34 (four years ago) link
He has a rep as a big curmudgeon, but he comes across as such a chill dude in this and the poker video.
Love the 16 string guitar.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, 7 April 2019 16:54 (four years ago) link
The other Show Us Your Junk films are worth watching too, Lee Ranaldo, Money Mark, Mario Caldato and a few others.
― MaresNest, Sunday, 7 April 2019 17:54 (four years ago) link
I think I caught a Bob Weston Bomb halfway through.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 April 2019 18:20 (four years ago) link
Thanks for posting that btw, I love these kinds of videos (and even love Earthquaker pedals) but didn't know about the series.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 April 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
Was this posted elsewhere? It's an interview with Steve Albini from 2018, I believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J0-AM-YDjM
― John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt, Saturday, 25 May 2019 21:22 (four years ago) link
great!
― StanM, Sunday, 26 May 2019 04:00 (four years ago) link
He neglected to mention that he was a member of Pegboy lol.
https://i.imgur.com/59PVmpA.jpg
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 27 May 2019 06:33 (four years ago) link
For, like, a minute, on an EP, as a favor.
Say this much about Albini, dude has an ethos. "I've heard people say that rock is dead, but I don't believe that. They haven't killed ska, for fuck's sake, how are they going to kill rock?"
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 May 2019 12:23 (four years ago) link
Their best release!
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 27 May 2019 14:58 (four years ago) link
They definitely killed ska
― One Eye Open, Monday, 27 May 2019 15:39 (four years ago) link
Ha, there was a great ska band joke in What We Do In the Shadows, like, last week.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 May 2019 15:51 (four years ago) link
in utero 2013 mix totally fucking rips, been years since i listened to this. feel like you're right there in the room with them
― meaulnes, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 10:25 (four years ago) link
xxp - A very 1998 ska act was on Jimmy Kimmel six months ago, I know people who saw Reel Big Fish recently, tons of the more traditional '90s ska acts still play.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:25 (four years ago) link
Would be more interested in an Albini-recorded Op Ivy than the fugazi sessions.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 04:31 (four years ago) link
I would love to hear Albini record Dredd Zeppelin.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 11:34 (four years ago) link
According to this and suggested by the album cover art of a cake shop near Electrical, he recorded this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmSdPZiiXqk
― ... (Eazy), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:23 (four years ago) link
lol, not quite the right link there hahaha:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIbX_6rKm68
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 15:26 (four years ago) link
(i wanted to believe for about 10 seconds though haha)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 15:27 (four years ago) link
The Pueblo Cafe song is better. This one's pretty good, too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhXlyq8mlbw
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 15:42 (four years ago) link
Not enough goofy studio banter and dry drums imho.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 16:16 (four years ago) link
Whoops!
― ... (Eazy), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 16:44 (four years ago) link
googling to see if Dread Zeppelin had any original members (yes: one), I learnt that a) Tortelvis rejoined the band b) 26 years ago c) because INXS had pursued them as a support act [but d) due to having quit he only ended up playing one show on the tour]
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link
he should join INXS
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 19:37 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLRpfzbr8f8
― Maresn3st, Thursday, 17 October 2019 08:15 (four years ago) link
zero questions about music. if you name your band Rapeman you sort of concede that a portion of every interview is going to have to be about that, but still, zero.
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 17 October 2019 11:30 (four years ago) link
I think I posted this before but it really is a good read about his thoughts on feminism and his own growth as a personhttps://www.listenlistenlisten.org/stevealbini/also I tweeted this post Ryan Adams but as much as he's made fun of as assholes or prickly it's funny I don't ever think I've heard a bad thing about Albini from anyone who's worked with him or any whispering that he's a creep
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 17 October 2019 12:19 (four years ago) link
it would amaze me if he'd ever been a creep, he seems like a very good guy
― imago, Thursday, 17 October 2019 12:23 (four years ago) link
who sublimates all the ugly masculine energy he's ever experienced into his art haha
he and his chalet-mates gave us their beer at an All Tomorrow's Parties on the basis that they were old and we were young <3 you Steve & co
― Captain ACAB (Neil S), Thursday, 17 October 2019 12:37 (four years ago) link
https://www.listenlistenlisten.org/stevealbini/
I wouldn't even know how to begin to answer some or all of these questions, so good for him for giving it so much time, thought and attention.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 October 2019 13:11 (four years ago) link
When Shellac played a club in my town a couple years ago, at one point he held up the show bc he felt a female audience member was talking too loud in between songs, and launched into this weirdly OTT volley of really gross sexual insults, "I dont come down to where you work and slap the etc etc etc", like morning zoo types stuff. He went at it for like 5 minutes despite nobody in the crowd laughing or responding, to the point where he noticeably lost the audience and the vibe of the show got really weird. Definitely tainted the gig for a lot of ppl, one of the weirder showgoing experiences in recent memory. Maybe he thought he was being ironic or satirical or something, but no getting around the fact that it was a smirking old guy trying to get laughs from a mostly male crowd by saying fucked up stuff to a young woman abt her body.
I believe that he's sincere in his mea culpas for some of his questionable work and he's often really eloquent and thoughtful when talking about feminism and trying to be an ally and etc, but IMO there's no denying that at some level there definitely seems to be some kind of frayed wiring or short circuit in his brain w/r/t women & sexuality.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Thursday, 17 October 2019 13:31 (four years ago) link
this guy is a asshole. fuck him.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 17 October 2019 16:58 (four years ago) link
https://www.stereogum.com/2108943/elvis-costello-steve-albini-pj-harvey/news/
― piscesx, Monday, 30 November 2020 19:20 (three years ago) link
first & hopefully last time I've agreed with Costello
long post a couple of posts above is otm. the free pass this prick gets in certain circles is galling
― Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 19:42 (three years ago) link
nah he's a great producer, prick or otherwise
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 19:46 (three years ago) link
well, sound engineer, as he protests
I find his sound pedantic
― Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:12 (three years ago) link
i wouldn't dispute that, but its deliberate clarity is quite literary imo
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:13 (three years ago) link
one really fucking annoying thing about this is did it occur to anyone that Rid of Me sounds like PJ Harvey wanted it to sound? or was just just in thrall to the evil Abini?
Harvey herself was pleased with the end result. "I do everything for myself primarily," she said, "and I was happy with it. I don’t really listen when people say good things about my work because I tend to not give myself praise about anything. But I was really pleased with Rid of Me. For that period of my life, it was perfect. Well, it wasn’t perfect but as near to as I could get at that time".[7] She remained friends with Albini afterward, finding in him a kindred spirit. "People read things in and make him what they want him to be," Harvey said. "He's the only other person I know that that happens to besides myself. People have a very specific idea of what I am- some kind of ax-wielding, man-eating Vampira- and I'm not that at all. I'm almost the complete opposite."[34]
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:20 (three years ago) link
people talk about "deliberately" ugly are generally talking about a small handful of the high profile records he did 30 years, he's recorded so many bands and artists
is this deliberately ugly? flawless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaHRBRkDW4g
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:21 (three years ago) link
the nina nastasia albums do sound good
tbh I didn't bother to read costello's rant bc he's also a dick. I just wanted to take another shot at albini
― Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:28 (three years ago) link
what's a pedantic sound?
― early-Woolf semantic prosody (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:29 (three years ago) link
Fussy and unfuzzy.
― pomenitul, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:29 (three years ago) link
one really fucking annoying thing about this is did it occur to anyone that Rid of Me sounds like PJ Harvey wanted it to sound?
Exactly. Like he's not without his issues and there are people who stick him too high on that ultimate alternative producer pedestal but his key thing has always been "find the best way to make it sound like the artist wants it to sound"
― Clean-up on ILX (onimo), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:30 (three years ago) link
I think it is safe to assume EC would not be a fan of Tweez
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:30 (three years ago) link
i'd say his sound is very clear and specific more than pedantic
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:31 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMttXqBl2uQ
from 18.57 until the end of this song is some of the most glorious production i have ever heard
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:33 (three years ago) link
just listen to this pedantic shit, that typical albini sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l_5nW0SUNw
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:34 (three years ago) link
well that^ is very clear, very defined, but i wouldn't call that pedantic, it sounds great
perhaps musicians appreciate crisp recording, who knows
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:41 (three years ago) link
you don't go to albini if you don't want the sound to be crisply conveyed
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:42 (three years ago) link
2xpost Well, that for sure sounds pretty band in a room, which was probably the intent. Albini's done all sorts of stuff, to his (literal) credit, but I think his claim that he only does what the artist wants is a little misleading, since there is a pretty identifiable Albini sound/approach on a lot of his records. Now, it's very possible, if not likely, that a lot of the acts he works with go to him *for* that sound, but I do wonder what it would be like if someone went to him and said "I want to make a record that sounds like Rumours," or whatever. Or, say, an extreme or proggy metal band that doesn't have a lot of room for his drum sound. He's come close to both kinds of bands before, I guess.
I *think* he's worked with hip-hip, or jazz, acts before, but I don't know who off the top of my head. He'd probably make a great jazz producer.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:42 (three years ago) link
lol i wonder if part of the issue i will sometimes have with albini is that the rooms he records the artists in are .. bad rooms? like their sonic character might be interesting but possibly not the greatest match for the artist. i love the idea of recording a performance in a room but the room shouldn't have what sounds like hard glossy walls if it's a country song imo?
― cosmic vision | bleak epiphany | erotic email (map), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:42 (three years ago) link
He did an album for Mats Gustafsson's band The Thing. It's good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezvZ1_J8aR8
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:43 (three years ago) link
He takes pride in his purportedly perfectly designed studio, doesn't he?
Which, yeah, implies that he does have an identifiable sound and approach, and it's more than just him trying to capture what it is that the artist wants, right?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:44 (three years ago) link
― imago, Monday, November 30, 2020 2:41 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink
i know i was joking haha like if you played that for someone who didn't know fulks and said who produced this they'd guess thousand times before they said albini
he's actually more similar to an old 60s era studio pro, do a weird psychedelic band one day, record a pop song the next, set it up and go
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:44 (three years ago) link
that room matches the artist much better imo! xp to the gustaffson (sp?) youtube
― cosmic vision | bleak epiphany | erotic email (map), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:45 (three years ago) link
He did a record with Child Bite who are very metal-y (in this incarnation at least)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm3o0DnQ9Xk
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:46 (three years ago) link
xpost Yeah, that Thing jazz album shreds.
Albini is definitely a tradesman at heart, I just think he's so much more than a "my job is to place the right mics in the right place and capture the band's vision" sort of guy. But again, a lot of his projects could be pretty self-selecting, since it's not like some pop star is going to go with Albini. Was it Nine Inch Nails that went to him just to sample/capture a bunch of drum sounds or something? That seems like a great use of his approach.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:47 (three years ago) link
the room i long to have a glimpse of - the ultimate room - is the room they recorded exile on main st in. it sounds like the most amazing room you could possibly hang out in imo.
― cosmic vision | bleak epiphany | erotic email (map), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:47 (three years ago) link
the The Thing thing sounds great but cmon it's basically some noise-rock/doom Zu thing, not jazz haha
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:48 (three years ago) link
Another point of comparison, does anyone think his version of Cheap Trick's "In Color" sounds better than the original? I guess there are a lot of factors.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:48 (three years ago) link
gonna check out more child bite - good stuff and great name too
― cosmic vision | bleak epiphany | erotic email (map), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:49 (three years ago) link
I interviewed Albini in '09, and I'm pretty sure I've posted links or quotes upthread, but what he said then has a lot of relevance to this discussion:
I took a two-year engineering course, finishing in ’06, and it struck me that the guy I did my in-studio work with was an old-school guy who’d been around since the ’70s, and he still had the mindset of a time when producing and engineering was an aristocracy of sorts. As a freelance writer I've been hustling for work my entire career, gig by gig, but he had the attitude that bands coming to the studio were supplicants in a way. Do you feel that’s a mindset that’s dying out?Well, yeah, to be honest the sort of elite position of being a recording engineer, working in a studio, sort of evaporated a long time ago. The people that ran studios tried to persist with that mentality for a while, until they realized that it wasn’t in their business interests to alienate their clientele, and now they tend to be more cooperative. But I come from the opposite end of the spectrum. I started as a musician, a guy in a band, and whenever I or my friends would go into a studio to work with these professional engineers, we were always treated in a sort of a dismissive fashion, as though we didn’t really know what we were doing. And that inspired the idea in me that an engineer should be subservient to the bands that he’s recording. That is, he should be working to their agenda, rather than trying to fit them into his mental image of how a band should behave. The analogy that I can make is if you go to the barber to get your hair cut, you should be able to tell the barber how you want your hair cut. Of course, the barber is the professional and he’s doing the cutting, but he should be doing it to suit you. And when a band comes in the studio, I think of them in precisely the same light. They should tell me how they want their record to come out. I have to do the technical execution, of course, but it should be to serve their image of themselves and their perception of what their record should be.Do you ever have to talk bands out of making their record sound like your back catalog, or anything like that?The thing is, if you have an honest conversation with a band before you get too far into making a record, you can discern what it is about – if there are records that they’re emulating, and I’m using that in the Greek sense of being inspired by something but still trying to surpass it in some way – you can discern what aspects of those records they like, and which aspects they think are applicable to their music. So you can by doing a little forensic investigation on their music and an honest conversation, you can usually figure out what they’re actually asking for when they ask to sound like the Jesus Lizard or Nirvana or whatever. And it’s normally something quantifiable.Have you ever recorded anything that you wouldn’t describe as falling under the umbrella of rock music?Oh, sure, all the time.How does your approach translate to non-rock music, like a small jazz group?Basically the same. Essentially anyone, any band or any performance ensemble that has as the focus of its aesthetic the performance of the music rather than let’s say an intellectual construction of the music after the fact, I’m quite comfortable working with. And I don’t really care what the performance is, whether it’s improvisational music, electronic music, rock music, acoustic music, it doesn’t matter. As long as the heartbeat of the music is a live performance, I can do fine with it.
Do you ever have to talk bands out of making their record sound like your back catalog, or anything like that?The thing is, if you have an honest conversation with a band before you get too far into making a record, you can discern what it is about – if there are records that they’re emulating, and I’m using that in the Greek sense of being inspired by something but still trying to surpass it in some way – you can discern what aspects of those records they like, and which aspects they think are applicable to their music. So you can by doing a little forensic investigation on their music and an honest conversation, you can usually figure out what they’re actually asking for when they ask to sound like the Jesus Lizard or Nirvana or whatever. And it’s normally something quantifiable.
Have you ever recorded anything that you wouldn’t describe as falling under the umbrella of rock music?Oh, sure, all the time.
How does your approach translate to non-rock music, like a small jazz group?Basically the same. Essentially anyone, any band or any performance ensemble that has as the focus of its aesthetic the performance of the music rather than let’s say an intellectual construction of the music after the fact, I’m quite comfortable working with. And I don’t really care what the performance is, whether it’s improvisational music, electronic music, rock music, acoustic music, it doesn’t matter. As long as the heartbeat of the music is a live performance, I can do fine with it.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:53 (three years ago) link
yes, and i would trust he's entirely sincere there, but i do think bands come to him expecting a certain quality of sound
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:56 (three years ago) link
Except for maybe the swastikas that were allegedly carved/formed into the air vent registers, yeah.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 30 November 2020 20:57 (three years ago) link
you'd choose a certain barber wouldn't you
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 20:57 (three years ago) link
my aesthetic complaints about albini are definitely in large part a post hoc rationalisation of a strong personal dislike
re: jazz and hip hop, idk who he’s worked with, but I’ve seen him in action on the electrical audio forums talking shit about ornette coleman, calling him a charlatan and his music bullshit, and dismissing jazz musicianship in general as hackwork in ways that made it clear he doesn’t have a clue what it is or how it works. I’ve seen him dismiss hip hop as beyond contempt. he is regularly gross about women and music made by or deemed to be for them. this alternative personality he cultivates in interviews as a thoughtful open minded lefty feminist dude, whose approach to music is purely technical, is transparent but it seems to work
you can say this is all irrelevant if the music is good. but I’m sick of him being held up as a hero by people who would cancel anyone else for a small amount of the shit he’s said and done over the years
― Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 21:04 (three years ago) link
― Left, Monday, November 30, 2020 3:04 PM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
we're not talking about his music though, or do people who record with him have to be cancelled too?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 21:18 (three years ago) link
I always think about all the hundreds of bands he records who are coming to chicago and asking him to do stuff that 20 engineers in their own hometowns could do, but are coming to him bc they want to have a record recorded by the famous guy. Which is not his fault of course, but still idk, its hard for me to take his "i'm just a regular ol Workin Jumpsuit Guy" thing straight when he obviously knows that a huge percentage of his job is just to have the name Steve Albini.
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Monday, 30 November 2020 21:20 (three years ago) link
asking him to do stuff that 20 engineers in their own hometowns could do
citation fucking required
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 21:21 (three years ago) link
ok how many dozens of clips would you like me to embed of random albini-produced flat-sounding punk bands over the last 20 years that sound like they could have been recorded anywhere by anyone
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Monday, 30 November 2020 21:27 (three years ago) link
rather than that, post something produced by anyone else that sounds like albini
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 21:29 (three years ago) link
xxxp I like some artists and albums he’s been involved with. idk i’d just like to see him being called out more and praised less bc there’s a wealth of material for the former
― Left, Monday, 30 November 2020 21:29 (three years ago) link
I love the idea of Rid of Me opening with this Leno intro, from the performance that won over Costello:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZoL8wpZzU
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 30 November 2020 21:53 (three years ago) link
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Monday, November 30, 2020 3:20 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
this from the interview seems to acknowledge that imo:
"So you can by doing a little forensic investigation on their music and an honest conversation, you can usually figure out what they’re actually asking for when they ask to sound like the Jesus Lizard or Nirvana or whatever. And it’s normally something quantifiable."
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
the real takeaway here: pj harvey is the greatest.
― tylerw, Monday, 30 November 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
otm
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 22:01 (three years ago) link
This is a really good question! The first thing that pops to mind is, I dunno, Led Zeppelin or something, but those albums sound so much better than his, even 50 years later. Then again, those albums sound better than almost anyone's albums, too.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 November 2020 22:05 (three years ago) link
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 30 November 2020 22:34 (three years ago) link
close but the guitars aren't quite there imo
― imago, Monday, 30 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
I always thought Jawbreaker's Bivouac sounded more stereotypically "albini-sound" (big thundering drums, loud guitars, low vocals) than 24-hour (and also that 24-hour sounded awful),but the official engineer for that record is Albini's cat.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 30 November 2020 23:04 (three years ago) link
post something produced by anyone else that sounds like albini
― assert (MatthewK), Monday, 30 November 2020 23:11 (three years ago) link
Tim Mac who did a lot of Amphetamine Reptile stuff like Cows, Halo of Flies, Janitor Joe, Babes in Toyland was similar to the classic Albini Jesus Lizard zone but not nearly as good
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 November 2020 23:33 (three years ago) link
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 30 November 2020 23:37 (three years ago) link
That is an excellent example of a precursor to the Albini drum sound and close enough for me on all other fronts.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 30 November 2020 23:56 (three years ago) link
TechnicalBen Fenner – engineer
― imago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:04 (three years ago) link
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/benfenner
quite the cv
― imago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:07 (three years ago) link
Just looked him up — he worked with Bowie on Outside, did a bunch of things with Steve Hackett...and was an (the?) engineer on Elvis Costello’s All This Useless Beauty. It’s all a rich tapestry.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:11 (three years ago) link
Not very Albini-esque artists necessarily! But I found an interview where he talks about the need for clarity in sound so there's something shared there
― imago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:15 (three years ago) link
in Spin mag in 1986, the mag's first piece re: Big Black, which was by John Leland, contained a jeremiad from SA re: "horrible beatbox rap." it may not evince racism qua racism, but Albini very clearly has a view of music in which anything straying from punk/hardcore/amerindie practices is pandering, false crap…it was very commonplace for me to encounter attitudes in the albini-adjacent Louisville scene that any african american popular music was false show biz shit antithetical to true punk-rock purism…
― veronica moser, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:32 (three years ago) link
@ imago, I LOVE that song you posted-- that, to me, is Albini's production in its best context
I generally think Albini is "the best person for the job" for only about 20% of the albums he's worked on. Nina Nastasia is, to my mind, not in that 20%, not that it's bad, but I don't think it's the right union. PJ Harvey might not be, either, but I'm really glad they made that one record together (and am glad they haven't worked together again). He's "the best" for Jesus Lizard and Neurosis and Cheer Accident, no question. On the Taylor Swift thread, somebody was theorizing about a her recording with Albini and I cannot imagine that'd result in anything positive.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:14 (three years ago) link
I don't know how Nina's records could be any betterhe obviously makes her comfortable making music which is more important than anything production wise, though I think the production is perfect too
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:28 (three years ago) link
He's "the best" for Jesus Lizard and Neurosis and Cheer Accident, no question
emboldened, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and add GY!BE to this
― imago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:29 (three years ago) link
xp yeah count me in as a fan of the sound of those Nastasia records, in particular the one w/Jim White
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:33 (three years ago) link
I’m not sure it has the typical Albini-sound, but I’ve always loved the engineering/production for Magnolia Electric Co.. I think he’s mentioned wanting to work with Neil Young and I always use that album as a reference for what I’d imagine would come out of recording Neil.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:44 (three years ago) link
I think it's funny that Led Zeppelin was put up as a counterpoint because Albini produced a Page and Plant album and it sounded good, but also wouldn't be mistaken for Zep.
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:46 (three years ago) link
It's actually his production for Harvey, Nastasia, Breeders, Electrelane and Esben & the Witch that I like the best of his work, more than the Lizardy stuff. (Four or five records among my fav of all time in there). I like hearing some croak and grain in those singers' voices, at odds with the way those singing registers and melodies are usually captured. As I said on some other thread, I'd love to hear him record La Luz. Along those lines, Goat Girl do sound like they've already recorded with him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlnkyZnqIZg
Producer, I think, was Dan Carey
Blessed Black Wings is fantastic, and I wish more metal was recorded that way, but I'm also glad they never worked together again.
― Julius Caesar Memento Hoodie (bendy), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:54 (three years ago) link
also just wanna say extremely good call on "Destroyer", I could immediately recall the drum sound and it totally makes sense
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:57 (three years ago) link
O God yeah Axes is so good both as an art-rock album and production-wise
― imago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 02:01 (three years ago) link
I’m not sure it has the typical Albini-sound, but I’ve always loved the engineering/production for _Magnolia Electric Co._. I think he’s mentioned wanting to work with Neil Young and I always use that album as a reference for what I’d imagine would come out of recording Neil.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 02:03 (three years ago) link
Albany
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 02:26 (three years ago) link
end transmission off magnolia electric co is godlikeI believe albini just started recording that take when the band thought they were doing a rehearsal take
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 02:36 (three years ago) link
silkworm is probably his best musical relationship
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 02:38 (three years ago) link
Wow the sound on the Kinks song
― actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 02:55 (three years ago) link
Hunh, it just occurred to me that that Kinks song was one of the first hard rock songs on the radio that really got me.
― Julius Caesar Memento Hoodie (bendy), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:10 (three years ago) link
would you say it really got you now
― early-Woolf semantic prosody (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:18 (three years ago) link
Cheer-Accident track v cool.
― actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:22 (three years ago) link
I hate youtube quality but listening to a very familiar song (to me) that he re-recorded you can immediately identify his "sound":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Es-bGRYkj4
(please someone post a better quality version of this if possible)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:33 (three years ago) link
been following this thread all day and can't come up with anything to say other than imagine having 30+ years of evidence in front of you and arguing that steve albini isn't good at making records
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:34 (three years ago) link
I didn’t hear much difference between high on fire records which brings up the idea that maybe we’ve got this backwards — albini isn’t the extravagant one you get that bargain producers could easily emulate, but rather albini is the bargain producer you get instead of some other big shot.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:39 (three years ago) link
I don't know if anyone is really arguing that Steve Albini is not good at making records. It's telling that as far as I can tell "Rid of Me" is the only work in that 30+ year career that some people second guess. It's just a particularly high profile exception. He does, however, generally have a sound, and that sound is not good for every project, which is probably true for many producers.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:59 (three years ago) link
electrical audio/albini super cheap for a world class studio
https://electricalaudio.com/booking-rates
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:04 (three years ago) link
I don't know if anyone is really arguing that Steve Albini is not good at making records.
Elvis Costello seems to be.
― actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:06 (three years ago) link
I love veronica moser (seriously one of my favorite posters on here) but his whole "racism qua racism" jab thrown at Albini, bearing in mind the reason for this revive is a quote from Elvis Costello, someone on record saying perhaps the most vile racist shit you can possibly conjure in regard to James Brown & Ray Charles... to me just sitting there like a monstrous elephant in the room.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:20 (three years ago) link
(sincere apologies if I've misgendered veronica moser as well)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:23 (three years ago) link
it's just funny that i feel like every so often this discussion comes up and we have to re-litigate the facts--steve worked on "spiderland," steve worked on the nina nastasia records, steve worked on magnolia electric co., steve worked on "rid of me," steve worked on almost the entire skwm discography, steve worked on all the joanna newsom stuff, steve worked on 50 great-sounding records you've never heard before--so we can shed the criticism of a cranky boomer like elvis costello.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:26 (three years ago) link
Al is it possible that two nerdy rockist white dudes might both be racist even if they disagree with each other about some unrelated shit
― Left, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:30 (three years ago) link
xpost For sure. But Costello's specific cranky boomer criticism - re: Rid of Me - just happens to be the most commonly made across the board (studio pun!) criticism of Albini.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:33 (three years ago) link
What was his specific criticism? All I got was "it sounds like shit" and "that guy doesn't know anything about production".
― actually-very-convincing (Sund4r), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:41 (three years ago) link
yeah i've never been clear on the specific issue people have with "rid of me" which in general sounds like steve alibini recording a power trio
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:44 (three years ago) link
xpost Just meant re that specific album. I can only assume Costello, like most people, at most only knows Albini's most high profile projects, one of which in this case just happened to be with an artist Costello really likes, who he thinks was done a disservice by the production, which is not a unique thought. I think the general criticism is that the trademark Albini Wall of Womph sort of steamrolls over PJs songs. Which was totally her call to make. I honestly find criticism of the album a little overblown, even my own, but there's little question it was designed to be a confrontational.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:50 (three years ago) link
This Year's Model sounds a bit albiniesque — spare, a lot of drum detail.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:50 (three years ago) link
But bright! I'm kind of fascinated by Nick Lowe as producer. That's how he got the nickname 'basher," because he would just bash things out.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:52 (three years ago) link
yeah rid of me is good not bad. elvis costello here is, as has been the case once or twice in the past, wrong about what constitutes good production for a rock and roll record
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:57 (three years ago) link
fwiw i was not arguing that albini is a bad producer upthread, hes clearly got a stack of classics to stand on. just that he clearly works with a certain number of bands obviously that dont ask very much of him, and hes happy to oblige. Which, whatever, great, everybody gets what they want, he always talks about what a journeyman he is. I dont think its a challop to confess that yes I've heard a large number of mediocre records over the last several decades that i wouldnt have guessed were albini joints if i hadnt seen his name on the sleeve. he has access to a great and unique sound, but i also dont think that he unmistakably imbues it into every record that he hits record on.
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 05:04 (three years ago) link
re:racial stuff its not even up for debate that albini is a longtime habitual user of certain words that are not ok in polite company, both in "ironic badboy" context and "i was just quoting what that rapper said" context, up to the present day
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 05:10 (three years ago) link
Albini had a pretty gross rant about running into Odd Future a few years ago at a festival.
Then there was the thing where an electronic musician asked for sample permission and he sent a screed about electronic music after 1979 that the guy used as marketing material. Not racialized there IIRC but aggressively stupid as screeds go.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 07:36 (three years ago) link
to me, steve albini not liking rap or electronic music and being kind of an asshole is cool. he’s a curmudgeonly and a purist, it’s completely in character. who cares?
― flopson, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 08:17 (three years ago) link
what a guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuOGBe5XW_U
― Left, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 08:40 (three years ago) link
the purism thing is the kind of shit wankers like simon reynolds were praising morrissey for when they knew openly defending his racism would be a bad look
― Left, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 08:43 (three years ago) link
even lester bangs had stopped defending this kind of shit before albini became a thing
― Left, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 08:47 (three years ago) link
Costello described something that happens to me at least once a year: he saw a live performance (in this case PJ Harvey on The Tonight Show) and then was disappointed by the official recording.
Been experiencing this back to being blown away by X doing a quiet, simple “See How We Are” on MTV’s The Cutting Edge and excitedly buying the LP and hearing a song that would never have reached my heart because of how it was arranged and recorded.
Some of this can be the engineering, but there’s also the collage of takes and layers, and the difference between a live performance with an audience and the performances in the studio, and the mixing and finessing. My favorite Shellac recording is the Live at the BBC “The End of Radio”: it has the high-wire performance of a single take in front of a massive audience. PJ on Leno (posted above) has that same energy and simplicity.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 13:19 (three years ago) link
Wondering what Costello might think of the sound on Zeni Geva's "Total Castration".
― it's not the 'done' thing (Matt #2), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 13:24 (three years ago) link
great band
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 13:45 (three years ago) link
tbf there is nothing on earth better than PJ's Leno's performance
― flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 13:51 (three years ago) link
maybe the Albini PJ album can be the one that finally turns me into a fan
― imago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 14:01 (three years ago) link
be sure to turn it up
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 14:23 (three years ago) link
Starless and Bible Black levels of dynamic range
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 14:53 (three years ago) link
Speaking of which, I've always sort of loosely thought of this Bill Reiflin album as King Crimson produced by Albini:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Siba1wuCaS0
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 15:27 (three years ago) link
that is sweet, never heard of him
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 17:38 (three years ago) link
relistened to rid of me, it is the best album ever, particularly the "dry" -> "me-jane" section
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 18:33 (three years ago) link
ha yeah i listened to it a couple times yesterday and it's hilarious that "exhibit A" for the prosecution is a fucking amazing classic rock album
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 18:51 (three years ago) link
In my case, I love the sound of Dry, the album, best. I love the *songs* on Rid, but it's the sound of the record that keeps me from playing then that often, even though I don't think it sounds terrible or anything. I have to be in the right mood. For sure it's the most likely of her formative works my family would probably tell me to turn off, lol.ups, Rieflin, who died last year I think, was most recently R.E.M's drummer and in the most current lineups of King Crimson. He was also in Ministry, among other industrial projects. I have no idea how he hooked up with Robert Fripp, but the solo albums he put out with Fripp and Trey Gunn in the band are pretty awesome.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 18:57 (three years ago) link
ah interesting, i don't know a whole lot about king crimson post-discipline probably why i don't know him, sounds like a pro's pro for sure
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 19:01 (three years ago) link
Rieflin was still with KC when I saw them in July 2017. Given the number of health problems he had, only revealed at the time of his obituary, plus the death of his wife before him, that fact kind of astonishes me.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 19:05 (three years ago) link
Found this Q interview from 1994 where Elvis Costello's comments are not exactly in agreement with his more recent comments about the album:
"The atmosphere of it is great but I had no idea what she was singing about and do you know what? I don't care. I'm not the right age. From what I could gather, it seemed to be a lot about blood and fucking. But I don't need to pore over it like someone who identifies directly with her. I don't want to be one of these middle-aged guys who turns up with the baseball hat on the wrong way round."
"Q: Have you heard anyone who's made you fear for your job?
I don't think anyone would want my job (laughs). PJ Harvey I really liked for the sound and the overall commitment. I loved Björk's album. To me it sounded like a dance album arranged for a jazz quartet. I've always liked her voice though. I remember going to see her with The Sugarcubes and your man with the trumpet was shouting his fucking head off. I was like, Shuddup! I can't hear her sing! Lyrically, I liked Aimee Mann's record. She has that ability, like Chris Difford, to draw you into her world through sheer attention to detail. To me, it's very reassuring that three of the albums I've liked most are by women. The guys are just boring at the moment, the young guys more boring than anyone."
― everything, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 19:52 (three years ago) link
i love the sound of this album albini is obviously such a creep cancelling is not a real thing
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 20:31 (three years ago) link
Genuinely charmed by people trying to "out" me regarding stuff that had print runs in the tens of thousands, bands that toured the world, stuff that was already reported on by Pitchfork... whatever. I am not afforded the luxury of secret shame, guys. Knock yourselves out.— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) October 12, 2021
a thread
― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Tuesday, 12 October 2021 22:45 (two years ago) link
I certainly have some 'splainin to do, and am not shy about any of it. A lot of things I said and did from an ignorant position of comfort and privilege are clearly awful and I regret them. It's nobody's obligation to overlook that, and I do feel an obligation to redeem myself...— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) October 12, 2021
― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Tuesday, 12 October 2021 22:46 (two years ago) link
I'm overdue for a conversation about my role in inspiring "edgelord" shit. Believe me, I've met my share of punishers at gigs and I sympathize with anybody who isn't me but still had to suffer them.— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) October 12, 2021
Good for him.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 October 2021 23:25 (two years ago) link
About time!!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 12 October 2021 23:33 (two years ago) link
I disagree this is a problem or ridiculous. People of privilege expecting not to have to take ownership of their own words and actions, like fucking grownups, that's ridiculous. These were formative experiences for me, and owning the embarrassment of them is *my* responsibility.— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) October 12, 2021
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 00:41 (two years ago) link
Wow
― Spiral Scratchiti (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 01:10 (two years ago) link
i couldn't find what this was in response to. who out there thinks they are some amazing detective who has uncovered unknown Albini nastiness?
― akm, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 01:13 (two years ago) link
Good question
― Spiral Scratchiti (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 01:15 (two years ago) link
Zoomer: "Songs About What-ing?"
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 01:16 (two years ago) link
i appreciate the context he includes there, not to excuse, but to explain. these types of discussions seem to usually occur with no context at all and this one probably will too but that is about as clear-eyed a statement as possible.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 01:33 (two years ago) link
Good for him; I know at least a dozen white dudes who were awkward, ignorant music nerd proto-edgelords 20 or 30 years ago who said all kinds of vile shit punching downward at people less privileged than them, and I know for sure (or feel pretty confident) that the majority of them see the world in a much different way now and are lucky that the things they said no longer follow them around because they were never captured in print or on video.
The ones who doubled down on it though...
― joygoat, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 01:35 (two years ago) link
re: what this was in response to — random responses to this:
It's not hard to reconcile that Dave Chappelle, once he got rich enough to be comfortable for life, reverted to ideas suited to people who feel entitled to certainty and comfort in their notion of the world, including their perception of others. You know, regular asshole stuff.— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) October 8, 2021
― ... (Eazy), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 05:03 (two years ago) link
fwiw I have seen several wokebini instances in recent years - this interview from February is good
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 07:22 (two years ago) link
Lol the post eazy highlighted definitely changes the context of this
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 07:28 (two years ago) link
He seems like an ok guy now, so much so that I overlook his penchant to tweet about poker (which would normally warrant an immediate unfollow).
― Sam Weller, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 07:43 (two years ago) link
Never really been a fan, but this is an excellent tweet
― edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 07:52 (two years ago) link
Albini has always (or long as I can remember) been an OK guy, as far as I know. And I forgive him the poker tweets because he's good at it! (And cooking, too.) Either way, he has of course never been shy about speaking his mind. What's relatively new is that he seems willing to preemptively speak his mind and participate in the (more) public discourse, not as a reactionary talking head good for a quote but as a leader of sorts.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 12:17 (two years ago) link
well the next thing he can do is admit that, part and parcel to his status as king Edgelord, his attitudes about music other than his vaunted indie and punk were hideously bigoted… specifically his comments re: hip-hop to John Leland in Spin in '85 or '86… and he can also say he's sorry for referring to VH as "the Halen," as one would refer to Priest or Maiden, in his capacity as the cub reporter for whichever Montana newspaper it was…
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 12:56 (two years ago) link
I bet he was a little asshole in kindergarten too
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 13:07 (two years ago) link
I enjoy some of the edgelord-era Albini stuff, not the things vm is referring to there, more the scathing takedowns of bands like Pixies or whatever. I know that's not what he was referring to in those tweets. More just the withering, yes-they-are-as-lame-as-you-imagined type stuff, which, even though he has apologized profusely for it, still seems like it was probably right otm:
Their willingness to be 'guided' by their manager, their record company and their producers is unparalleled. Never have I seen four cows more anxious to be led around by their nose rings
― Position Position, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 13:13 (two years ago) link
I wonder if his music tastes have changed much or does he just listen to The Mentally Ill and MX-80 Sound?
― Maresn3st, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 13:20 (two years ago) link
― Maresn3st, Wednesday, October 13, 2021 8:20 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
He likes Leather Nun too
The tweets by Todd Trainer's drummer are pretty consistent with my interactions with him off & on for last twenty-ish yrs
― chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 13:26 (two years ago) link
Sorry he's Todd's *guitar player*, I forget Todd plays drums cuz he's the frontman
― chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 13:28 (two years ago) link
and he can also say he's sorry for referring to VH as "the Halen,"
Have heard this said "in the wild", so giving Albini a pass on that one.I once crossed a (v.small) picket line of protestors outside a R@peman gig in London, sorry all.
― let the gaslighting begin (Matt #2), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 13:39 (two years ago) link
it is a deeply shameful band name and i do not care if it's from a comici do not care if it was the 80si do not care that the project didn't last very longi do not care that he apparently apologized in april 2020 on some random podcast about it
i have yet to see evidence of understanding of exactly how bad it is
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 14:11 (two years ago) link
not a huge odd future fan iirc
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 14:48 (two years ago) link
The odd future thing did sound like a fucking nightmare tbh. And with Heathcliff Beru working for them at the time as well.
― Position Position, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 15:42 (two years ago) link
Tyler said it didn't happen, but ok
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 15:54 (two years ago) link
Or at least not the way Steve claims
https://i.imgur.com/kmfAq.jpeg
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:00 (two years ago) link
Ah well case closed
― badg, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:01 (two years ago) link
Fwiw, even Beru said "Lol. I was there too ... I felt bad for everyone in the back of the ride that day."
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/aug/10/steve-albini-odd-future
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:11 (two years ago) link
I am quite happy none of them engaged me directly, because at least one of us would have regretted it.
This is such a Reddit tough guy thing to say
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:14 (two years ago) link
details of the actual ride aside, steves obvious thrill at the chance to use certain words was always the real WTF for me there
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:19 (two years ago) link
fun fact: people have tried to cancel me before because my wife worked for albini and he is someone i generally fuck with. the reason i do is because i have watched him learn and grow, quietly, from the sidelines - even over the past 15 years https://t.co/C5G7Rrc25B— jes skolnik (ghost version) (@modernistwitch) October 12, 2021
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:26 (two years ago) link
xp Give me a break with "obvious thrill". How could you know that? He should have said "n-bomb" in his messages, but his words could easily be interpreted as a person repeating to convey the offense/shock he felt as a captive audience in the situation. I don't care one way or the other, but to say he experienced a thrill from writing it is projection.
― beard papa, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:34 (two years ago) link
it is a deeply shameful band name andi do not care if it's from a comici do not care if it was the 80si do not care that the project didn't last very longi do not care that he apparently apologized in april 2020 on some random podcast about it
The guy is 60, maybe he'll have gotten it by the time he reaches 70.
― Starmer: "Let the children boogie, let all the children boogie." (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:37 (two years ago) link
xp "the bad rappers then said - and it is with great anguish and certainly no pleasure that i type these awful words, but i feel it is my journalistic duty to do so - the following specific epithets:"
a 50something white man in 2011 with his pedigree knows better, and does not put those words before an audience before thinking "can i get away with this". he did it bc he thought the EA messageboard wouldnt care.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:43 (two years ago) link
his attitudes about music other than his vaunted indie and punk were hideously bigoted
I remember seeing him talk about House Music (maybe in that Grohl series?) and say that even though he dismissed it at the time he can now see that it was as revolutionary as punk rock
― St. Twel'mo, or the Cuneiform Cyclopedist of Chattanooga (President Keyes), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:49 (two years ago) link
omg this dude is so boring
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:49 (two years ago) link
Im a fan of him as like a pundit weirdly but a lot of ppl here are bending over backwards to make someone who doesn’t fit into the current discursive paradigm seem like they fit in lol
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:51 (two years ago) link
Like, he’s clearly been super wrong and the test of time has embarrassed him but ppl want his framing of shit to remain righteous & central so they rewrite everything
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:52 (two years ago) link
― beard papa, Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:34 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Lol I’m sorry, no
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:53 (two years ago) link
Give me a break with "obvious thrill". How could you know that?
https://www.discogs.com/artist/2431412-Run-Nigger-Run
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:57 (two years ago) link
Stoically and sternly turning in my track with Nash Kato to Tellus intending to convey the offense and shock I feel as a captive audience in a situation
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 18:00 (two years ago) link
Have y'all seen him in "The Art of Sampling"? Has he made a similar mea culpa with the dumbass opinions he made there?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 18:05 (two years ago) link
Sometimes he's still right though
"Pop music is for children and idiots" - my chat with Steve Albini for @2ser:https://t.co/Kor1oBOIEI pic.twitter.com/4qBzisI8td— Longform Editions (@longform_ed) December 8, 2015
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 18:07 (two years ago) link
I think it’s fair to say he’s not really in a position to have the Dave chappelle conversation considering
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 18:10 (two years ago) link
I love the editing in there where he's complaining that sampling requires no talent or ability to play an instrument and it cuts to Shock G playing the piano.
― joygoat, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:00 (two years ago) link
I love the editing in there where he's complaining that sampling requires no talent or ability to play an instrument and it cuts to Shock G Piano Man playing the piano.
― joygoat, Wednesday, October 13, 2021 3:00 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:08 (two years ago) link
xps holy shit at that compilation track
― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:27 (two years ago) link
This is still funny (and the track in question is great).
https://pitchfork.com/news/61410-steve-albini-e-mail-about-how-much-he-hates-dance-music-turned-into-billboard-advertisement/
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:14 (two years ago) link
I had the same 'ewwww dance music' attitude as Albini when I was 16 and going to ska-punk shows every weekend, hearing it from a 60 year old guy who's been involved in recording for forty years just seems extra pathetic.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:16 (two years ago) link
I am absolutely the wrong audience for this kind of music. I've always detested mechanized dance music, its stupid simplicity, the clubs where it was played, the people who went to those clubs, the drugs they took, the shit they liked to talk about, the clothes they wore, the battles they fought amongst each other...
Bob Weston is a big dance music fan. I wonder if he has ever tried to entice Steve out to a night of dancing?
― stirmonster, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:34 (two years ago) link
Steve Albini dances to Abba
― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:40 (two years ago) link
There’s something about the way he maps out these concepts of “war” and “this music is the enemy of what I believe in” that is just ridiculously OTT, as if those making such music are equally invested in dogma and making taste some sort of aesthetic battleground where everyone wants to tell everyone else why this or that music is the worse thing ever, and here’s why (at length)
His whole thing of “it’s not for me, but here’s 50 reasons why I absolutely hate it and consider it the grossest thing possible” is zzzz
“The electronic music I liked was radical and different”….ok Steve
― Buckfast in America (Master of Treacle), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:42 (two years ago) link
Big Black and "Work That Mutha Fucker" are very close on a continuum to me.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:51 (two years ago) link
Same!
“The electronic music I liked was radical and different”….ok Steve - this is / was such a common attitude back in the day. i had SO many friends who just couldn't make the leap when House music arrived, perhaps because it was popular and also as they felt it wasn't radical. It was of course way more radical than a lot of electronic music they were into, and a lot of electronic music they loved then went down a cul de sac of no return.
― stirmonster, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:07 (two years ago) link
This will sound stupid and reductive, and I’m not defining SA or haters of dance music, but:
I wonder how much of this just comes down to “I don’t like to dance and as such this music is confusing to me”
(Note: I do not like to dance and do enjoy some electronic/dance music)
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:18 (two years ago) link
Defending, not defining
I wonder how much of this just comes down to “I don’t like to dance and as such this music is confusing to me”This was exactly the line Chicago radio dj Steve Dahl used in his vicious anti-disco rants in 1979, which culminated in the Disco Demolition record burning/riot at a White Sox game.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:27 (two years ago) link
the world has never recovered
― beard papa, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:32 (two years ago) link
This was definitely an obstacle for me until I bought a drum machine and started trying to make electronic music - no one can see you dance poorly to your own 808.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:36 (two years ago) link
You’ll dance to anything, milo
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:38 (two years ago) link
I kid. A Dead Milkmen lyric
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:39 (two years ago) link
_I wonder how much of this just comes down to “I don’t like to dance and as such this music is confusing to me”_This was definitely an obstacle for me until I bought a drum machine and started trying to make electronic music - no one can see you dance poorly to your own 808.
― And of course the worms! (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:57 (two years ago) link
i’d respect him a lot more if he just proactively did some ‘splaining rather than (condescendingly) being charmed by people outing him.
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 23:08 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLr5EXyoQCE
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 October 2021 05:16 (two years ago) link
_I am absolutely the wrong audience for this kind of music. I've always detested mechanized dance music, its stupid simplicity, the clubs where it was played, the people who went to those clubs, the drugs they took, the shit they liked to talk about, the clothes they wore, the battles they fought amongst each other..._
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 06:09 (two years ago) link
Oh sorry, I just traced the comment back to the song in question. Lmao, Steve.
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 06:52 (two years ago) link
I always wondered about that last bit in particular "the battles they fought amongst each other", as opposed to the complete lack of conflict and backbiting in indie rock circles?
― only built 4 lynx africa (Noel Emits), Thursday, 14 October 2021 08:25 (two years ago) link
my favorite part of that has always been his reference to Xenakis before lamenting "When that scene and those people got co-opted by dance/club music I felt like we'd lost a war." yeah, it was really sad when dance music co-opted the Xenakis scene. we all shed a tear.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 14 October 2021 12:25 (two years ago) link
Guy’s eternally narrow view of what counts as “worthy” music is kinda sad at his age. I have to imagine some great affront happened to him at a dance club that he will never, ever forget.I don’t think his public reckonings with wokeness have been bad though on the whole. Been unusually insightful and honest when it comes to these things kinds of things, particularly for someone from that space and age. He was from birth a cantankerous old man and he’ll forever just Not Get certain things, but I don’t doubt he’s trying.
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:18 (two years ago) link
I'm not Captain Save a House but I actually remember Powell sounding closer to the noisy artists that Albini was praising than the 'stupid simplistic' club music he probably had in mind. I imagine he didn't actually listen.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:21 (two years ago) link
I did discover Powell bc of this incident so there's that.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:26 (two years ago) link
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:28 (two years ago) link
xpostCaptain Save A House heh. I’d be fine if I never had to listen to that track Insomnia again (Powell has his moments tho). But Albini was name checking early Cabaret Voltaire while poo-pooing the song? It sounds quite similar. That whole Odd Future thing tho, my god. Maybe there’s some grey area about his intent there but that’s a pretty fucked up hill to die on in 2021.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:50 (two years ago) link
Also Circa1916 otm and yes Al Jourgenson may well have turned more than a few peeps away from electronic music. Big Black opened my ears to Ministry tho so screw ‘em both.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:53 (two years ago) link
That’s funny to me as I don’t think there is a huge gap between Big Black and Revolting Cocks and post-Twitch Ministry!
― And of course the worms! (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 14 October 2021 14:21 (two years ago) link
Narcissism of small differences etc.
― St. Twel'mo, or the Cuneiform Cyclopedist of Chattanooga (President Keyes), Thursday, 14 October 2021 14:27 (two years ago) link
Well yea I mean “stigmata” was like a flip of “racer x”
In Chris Connelly’s book he puts it the other way — says Steve albini’s “piously heterosexual” indie rock threw down the gauntlet in a way that had a trickle down effect on jourgensen that lasted for years (sort of, it seems to me, implying albini made jourgensen kind of insecure and it explains his push toward metal)
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Thursday, 14 October 2021 16:30 (two years ago) link
A journalist took Albini's Twitter declaration "I'm overdue for a discussion about my role in inspiring 'edgelord' shit" and asked him for an interview. The results are worth a read.
I admit that I was deaf to a lot of women’s issues at the time, and that’s on me. Within our circles, within the music scene, within the musical underground, a lot of cultural problems were deemed already solved — meaning, you didn’t care if your friends were queer. Of course women had an equal place, an equal role to play in our circles. The music scene was broadly inclusive. So for us, we felt like those problems had been solved. And that was an ignorant perception. That’s the way a lot of straight white guys think of the world — they think that it requires an active hatred on your part to be prejudiced, bigoted or to be a participant in white supremacy. The notion is that if you’re not actively doing something to oppress somebody, then you’re not part of the problem. As opposed to quietly enjoying all of the privilege that’s been bestowed on you by generations of this dominance. ...In our circles, nothing was off limits. So, it took a while for me to appreciate that using abusive language in a joking fashion was still using abusive language. And it was genuinely shocking when I realized that there were people in the music underground who weren’t playing when they were using language like that and who weren’t kindred spirits. They were, in fact, awful, and only masquerading as intellectuals. That was one of many wake-up moments....That was the fundamental failure of my perception. It’s been a process of enlightenment for me to realize and accept that my very status as a white guy in America is the product of institutional prejudices, that I’ve enjoyed the benefits of them, passively and actively. And I’m responsible for accepting my role in the patriarchy, and in white supremacy, and in the subjugation and abuse of minorities of all kinds....I’m less concerned than I was 30 years ago about trying to make an experience extreme. Specifically regarding the anti-woke comics today, the uncomfortable truths that they’re expressing are genuinely, almost exclusively, childish restatements of the status quo. Or they’re pining for sustaining the status quo that they feel is threatened somehow. I can’t think of a more tragic or trivial comic premise than: Things should stay the way they are. That’s the absence of creativity — it’s a void rather than a creative notion. It’s fundamentally conservative and anti-progress. And I strain at finding humor in the idea that things should not get better. I wish that I knew how serious a threat fascism was in this country. At that time [the 1980s under Reagan], there was a phone-in hotline for the America First committee that you could call; they were on the South Side of Chicago, and it would play a racist diatribe as the phone message. Everyone in our circle was dismissive of those as being these ridiculous country bumpkins. There was a joke made about the Illinois Nazis in The Blues Brothers. That’s how we all perceived them — as this insignificant, unimportant little joke. I wish that I knew then that authoritarianism in general and fascism specifically were going to become commonplace as an ideology.
That’s the way a lot of straight white guys think of the world — they think that it requires an active hatred on your part to be prejudiced, bigoted or to be a participant in white supremacy. The notion is that if you’re not actively doing something to oppress somebody, then you’re not part of the problem. As opposed to quietly enjoying all of the privilege that’s been bestowed on you by generations of this dominance.
...
In our circles, nothing was off limits. So, it took a while for me to appreciate that using abusive language in a joking fashion was still using abusive language. And it was genuinely shocking when I realized that there were people in the music underground who weren’t playing when they were using language like that and who weren’t kindred spirits. They were, in fact, awful, and only masquerading as intellectuals. That was one of many wake-up moments.
That was the fundamental failure of my perception. It’s been a process of enlightenment for me to realize and accept that my very status as a white guy in America is the product of institutional prejudices, that I’ve enjoyed the benefits of them, passively and actively. And I’m responsible for accepting my role in the patriarchy, and in white supremacy, and in the subjugation and abuse of minorities of all kinds.
I’m less concerned than I was 30 years ago about trying to make an experience extreme. Specifically regarding the anti-woke comics today, the uncomfortable truths that they’re expressing are genuinely, almost exclusively, childish restatements of the status quo. Or they’re pining for sustaining the status quo that they feel is threatened somehow. I can’t think of a more tragic or trivial comic premise than: Things should stay the way they are. That’s the absence of creativity — it’s a void rather than a creative notion. It’s fundamentally conservative and anti-progress. And I strain at finding humor in the idea that things should not get better.
I wish that I knew how serious a threat fascism was in this country. At that time [the 1980s under Reagan], there was a phone-in hotline for the America First committee that you could call; they were on the South Side of Chicago, and it would play a racist diatribe as the phone message. Everyone in our circle was dismissive of those as being these ridiculous country bumpkins. There was a joke made about the Illinois Nazis in The Blues Brothers. That’s how we all perceived them — as this insignificant, unimportant little joke. I wish that I knew then that authoritarianism in general and fascism specifically were going to become commonplace as an ideology.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 8 November 2021 21:32 (two years ago) link
That was interesting, thanks.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 November 2021 22:49 (two years ago) link
Seconded
― Exploding Plastic Bertrand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 8 November 2021 22:52 (two years ago) link
thirded.
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:24 (two years ago) link
and i'm sure there may be some skepticism but in this year of lowered expectations, nice to at least see someone with a problematic past not revert to the "uh oh cancel culture, folks!" response
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:26 (two years ago) link
he has been working to redeem his past for a long time.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-i-havent-had-a-conventional-christmas-in-20-years_b_8614568
also supporting women. he took my ex wife on the road with shellac as tour support on a uk tour a few years back. she was more or less completely unknown and it was a life changing experience for her.
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:37 (two years ago) link
that's great!
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:38 (two years ago) link
That's a really good interview, he's obviously thought about all of this a lot and seems very sincere.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 15:55 (two years ago) link
Good on him, seriously.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 15:57 (two years ago) link
Yeah, a lot of the things he said are things I've been thinking about lately, especially with regards to some of my older friends who are late Gen X and were relatively open-minded people, even activists in their younger days, but still did all the "edgelordy" bantery jokes because they could, and are now floundering when presented with more modern-day attitudes, even rebelling against them in their middle ages; truly believing we're becoming a society of snowflakes who can't take a joke etc etc...
I don't think this is necessarily a case of becoming more conservative as they get older. I think they see themselves as continuing along the righteous path they've always been on, even the path has curved a little, i.e. "social justice is the oppressive force, the same kind of societal indoctrination I used to fight against in the eighties and nineties when the censors were trying to ban video nasties and sex scenes and slap stickers on hip-hop and metal albums" etc.
But these are not the same things. The Mary Whitehouses of this world were trying to protect some sort of old fashioned, almost Victorian values of "decency". Gen X were largely about rebelling against such stuffy, repressive ideals most likely enforced by their parents. It was a dutiful countercultural signifier to be shocking, to break these taboos, to be "authentic" without sugar-coating or genuflecting to notions of decency.
But Albini is absolutely right: You can only do this from a point of privilege. Ironically spouting racist words, making rape jokes, or just generally being a provocative edgy so-and-so is only something people do if they're naive and sheltered enough not to have considered the real effects and implications of what they're saying. And to say "relax, it's just a joke" compounds that.
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 17:25 (two years ago) link
Gen X were largely about rebelling against such stuffy, repressive ideals most likely enforced by their parents. It was a dutiful countercultural signifier to be shocking, to break these taboos, to be "authentic" without sugar-coating or genuflecting to notions of decency.
^Good post – but as someone who never understood the "intentionally being a dick" impulse (or, thankfully, ever really encountered ppl like that), I'm still not sure this explains it? Weren't many parents of Gen X open-minded types who were young in the Sixties?
― juristic person (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:07 (two years ago) link
Gen X parents were older than that generally
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
Which isn't to say the Boomer parent/Millennial kid pipeline doesn't have its own set of problems
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:14 (two years ago) link
Well yeah
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:48 (two years ago) link
I appreciated this.
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:52 (two years ago) link
I don't think the Gen X thing I mentioned was supposed to be thought of as "intentionally being a dick" rather than a revolt against ingrained attitudes of which perhaps their parents were the last to defend. The whole slacker ethos was in part political: deliberately dropping out of society, turning one's back on the stuffy, clean-cut mores and values of the earlier part of the century: "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me" etc. Unfortunately that gets unpacked and interpreted a number of ways, so yes, it often did boil down to a lot of intentional dickishness, in the same way as "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me" eventually became batoned over the years into "Everything is fucked, everything is fucked/All I wanna do is break stuff" (although that's more of an early millennial anthem but I hope you get my train of thought)
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:58 (two years ago) link
Yeah I hear you. I guess I'm young enough (late Gen X / straddling the Millennial line) that I've never really understood or related to that older Gen X slacker/rebellion ethos.
― juristic person (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 19:01 (two years ago) link
yeah, i feel similarly, also near that age but a very early millennial, a pioneer for the new 1000 years. there was no one there to explain the gen x / slacker thing, so i basically understood it through pop culture - how the simpsons would portray sonic youth, stuff like that. the rebellion thing didn't really connect with me - i'm still not sure there's a direct connection between the "slacker" thing and "political rebellion" thing. the idea to drop out of society has been part of every generation since the boomers, at least, right? and slackers didn't even do that (it seems to me), they just kind of thought caring about stuff was inherently uncool
― just staying (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 19:06 (two years ago) link
anyway, don't mean to go on a tangent about "slackers", i know that's not central to dog latin's point
― just staying (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 19:08 (two years ago) link
I thought part of it was sort of a reaction against the excesses and materialism of the '80s – like, "We're just gonna hang around Austin" (literally, in the movie Slacker) "and do what's satisfying as a lifestyle, not strive for the conventional trappings of success"?
Which I guess in a way would be rebelling against their parents' path (for some)...
― juristic person (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 19:09 (two years ago) link
From the sounds of it I'm roughly the same age as you and apparently I'm on the absolute cusp of what is generally defined as Gen X/Millennial, and while I know it's wrong to out too much stock in these marketing concepts, I feel there's a marked distinction in attitudes between friends who were a few years older than me growing up and people younger. This might be a UK thing, but there didn't seem to be so much of a stigma about "dropping out" among those I knew who were in their late-teens/early-adulthoods in the early-90s. They would go travelling or live in a squat or get an arts grant or just go on the dole. I'm a bit too young to remember myself, but from what I'm told, going on the dole was just a thing people did from time to time. I even had friends a few years older than me who wore their lack of work ethic as a badge of pride. Anyone younger than me would have been abhorred. And the stigma around benefits has increased so sharply since then that even people who genuinely deserve social security and government money are painted out as scroungers in society.
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 20:04 (two years ago) link
But yes, we're digressing here. Or maybe not... The same UK slackers I'm thinking of, who were, as I say, self-professed countercultural types with strong (I would say) antiestablishment, if not quite-far-left values, are now the ones moaning about cancel culture and snowflakes and blah blah
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 20:08 (two years ago) link
The Mary Whitehouses of this world were trying to protect some sort of old fashioned, almost Victorian values of "decency". Gen X were largely about rebelling against such stuffy, repressive ideals most likely enforced by their parents. It was a dutiful countercultural signifier to be shocking, to break these taboos, to be "authentic" without sugar-coating or genuflecting to notions of decency.
Maggie Nelson's new book has an essay about art, which I haven't read in full, but I found this line to be interesting and illustrative of shifting attitudes:
"The twentieth-century model imagined the audience as numb, constricted, and in need of being awakened and freed (hence, an aesthetics of shock), where as the twenty-first-century model presumes the audience to be damaged, in need of healing, aid, and protection (hence, an aesthetics of care)."
― jaymc, Tuesday, 9 November 2021 20:16 (two years ago) link
That is interesting. I mean, you could apply a whole bunch of theories here but maybe there's a noticeable cycle of breaking/fixing going on in societal art ove the generations which would be interesting to look at. I certainly find the whole turn-of-the-millennium era of pop culture interesting because a lot of it really does feel like the apex of unapologetically provocative excess: Limp Bizkit, Tom Greene, Blink182, superclubs playing Ibiza trance anthems, the rise of pop songs specifically about money, Eminem etc. To 19 year old me (who had grown up with 90s punk, hip-hop, rave, metal etc) it felt like all that stuff was overshooting and missing the point: It felt like an extreme apex, endpoint and farce of the stuff I had previously enjoyed, like someone heard Rage Against The Machine and thought "Yeah these guys are really angry about something, probably their breakfasts or something" and copied it and 'roided it up and took out all the politics and had a big hit with it. All that kind of stuff felt to me like the logical conclusion of "shock values" because it had no agenda other than to shock or provoke little more than an apolitical sense of energy and excitement that was nevertheless aimless.
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 20:41 (two years ago) link
... Blink-182?
― talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 20:42 (two years ago) link
I'm sorry, was there more than one band that went by that name
― talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 20:43 (two years ago) link
no see they're Blink-182-1, you're thinking about Blink-182-2
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 20:51 (two years ago) link
I think you're thinking of Black 47.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 9 November 2021 21:17 (two years ago) link
You're thinking of the Blink-182 from Earth 31.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 21:19 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SqhSfx2TkE
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 21:23 (two years ago) link
John Mayer (of all people) said something recently about David Letterman in this interview that got me thinking along similar lines:
Letterman was this trusty depot: 5 nights a week you could hang out in this place where, if you were a bright person — but one who also didn’t want to use their intelligence manipulatively — you could watch someone use their intelligence for entertainment purposes. Basically misappropriate their intelligence! I grew up in Fairfield, Connecticut, and if you grew up in New England and you were bright, there was a good chance you were going to go into some dark art, like become a defense attorney. But Letterman was sending up erudition by misappropriating it for nonsense, and I always found that heroic.
The idea of misappropriating talent and entitlement feels like something Letterman and Belushi brought to Gen-X American men.
And where the edgelord business ties in, as a model for Gen-X men to imitate, is the idea morrisp said of "intentionally being a dick" -- from Dr. (fun honorific!) Hunter S. Thompson to Bill Murray, being kind of a self-aware dick and leaning in to the entitlement.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 21:30 (two years ago) link
Thanks for that Maggie Nelson quote, jaymc — loved it so much I ran out and got a copy of her book of essays you mentioned, On Freedom.
― Xgau Murder Spa (nikola), Wednesday, 10 November 2021 20:32 (two years ago) link
I've ordered it too.
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Thursday, 11 November 2021 10:12 (two years ago) link
Haven't listened yet, but the description implies it will be good:
http://vishkhanna.com/2021/12/15/ep-656-steve-albini/
Steve Albini talks U.S. politics, Electrical Audio and pandemic life, Shellac’s 30th anniversary and updates on their new record and new singles collection, Get Back and the Beatles he has met and spoken with, why he unlocked his twitter, owning his own insensitive socio-cultural mistakes, his Norm Macdonald encounters, Poverty Alleviation Charities’ 24 Hour Improv event on December 18-19, future plans and more!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 17 December 2021 16:42 (two years ago) link
His McCartney story (cameo appearance by the Auteurs) is funny
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 17 December 2021 16:58 (two years ago) link
They're finally gonna put the early singles on CD/Bandcamp (presumably)? Nice!
― but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 17 December 2021 17:03 (two years ago) link
It’s gonna be nice to finally own these limited edition items and really dig into them.
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 3 January 2022 12:43 (two years ago) link
Listening to that episode now.
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 3 January 2022 13:13 (two years ago) link
Better than winning a Grammy. https://t.co/kkvQ5KiiHf— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) January 4, 2022
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 4 January 2022 02:55 (two years ago) link
I'm enjoying Eve 6 guy's sparring/burgeoning friendship with him, even if he couldn't get him into Counting Crows
― PaulTMA, Tuesday, 4 January 2022 12:04 (two years ago) link
Yeah, that's been entertaining. I could have sworn the Eve 6 person has a real/fake beef with Patton Oswalt going, too.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 4 January 2022 12:54 (two years ago) link
Are they still going??
― treat the gelignite tenderly for me (Sund4r), Tuesday, 4 January 2022 13:20 (two years ago) link
oh god jim goad
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 4 January 2022 13:53 (two years ago) link
that interview was really good
You think I'm lying about that radio station @LinBrehmer can vouch. Occasional Joan Armatrading or Squeeze joints aside, it's all crow. (Lin I hear there's a new Eve6 song just dropped and the promotions budget is unlimited @FalconryFinance merchandise) (beef is so hot rn)— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) January 5, 2022
no one has played Counting Crows in at least 24 hours. But thanks for listening.— Lin Brehmer (@LinBrehmer) January 5, 2022
Oh shit, not a beef with Lin Brehmer. Chicago will tear itself in two!
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 20:40 (two years ago) link
Au contraire! https://t.co/5Q7fVeNVXZ pic.twitter.com/O7eu9etKhM— Eric Ziegenhagen (@ericzieg) January 5, 2022
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 21:38 (two years ago) link
lol, I saw that!
not sure why Albini thought that Lin, of all people, would vouch for his minor (but completely accurate) XRT swipe though
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 21:43 (two years ago) link
so this is what albini does now
― Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 5 January 2022 21:55 (two years ago) link
based on the timestamps, lin was right. it had been about 24 hours and 10 minutes since xrt played the counting crows.
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 23:22 (two years ago) link
How do you figure? Counting Crows was played at 2:47 pm the previous day and his tweet was at 2:12 pm today, that's less than 24 hours in my book.
And yes, I am disappointed in myself for spending this much time thinking about it.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 23:25 (two years ago) link
It's OK, it was a long December
― jpg trouble in wallo gina (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 23:28 (two years ago) link
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 23:31 (two years ago) link
STEVE ALBINI WAS MR. JONES THE WHOLE TIME!
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 23:31 (two years ago) link
surely there's a poker game happening somewhere that would be happy to deal ol' Steve in
― Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 5 January 2022 23:35 (two years ago) link
oh shit you’re right..i thought i saw 3:12 for lin’s tweet
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 23:48 (two years ago) link
Not to get super-pedantic (and certainly not on Twitter), but according to the same source, XRT played "Round Here" at 6:01 a.m. this morning!
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 6 January 2022 00:29 (two years ago) link
Can’t believe Albini missed the Black Crowes spins
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 6 January 2022 01:17 (two years ago) link
Apropos of nothing, but an Albini Black Crowes album would've owned.
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 6 January 2022 03:11 (two years ago) link
Crowes did a Zep cover album, and Albini recorded a Page/Plant album, so pretty close!
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 6 January 2022 03:16 (two years ago) link
just to say that 'the back BONE of this country is the independent TRUCK!' is one of the most *bombastic intro*s to a record of all time. that squeal and thud.
― maelin, Wednesday, 20 April 2022 00:48 (one year ago) link
He won his second World Series of Poker bracelet last night, taking first out of 773 players. $1,500 entry fee led to $196,000.
pic.twitter.com/vzWCXWmIe4— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) June 18, 2022
― deep luminous trombone (Eazy), Saturday, 18 June 2022 11:21 (one year ago) link
That'll buy a lot of Travis Bean guitars.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 18 June 2022 17:51 (one year ago) link
Or go towards the staff at Electrical's take-home.
― Maresn3st, Saturday, 18 June 2022 18:29 (one year ago) link
presumably gets his poker face from bands asking “how did you like that?” after a take
― assert (matttkkkk), Saturday, 18 June 2022 22:18 (one year ago) link
10/10!
― stirmonster, Saturday, 18 June 2022 22:22 (one year ago) link
It was a HORSE tournament too, that’s awesome
― frogbs, Saturday, 18 June 2022 22:30 (one year ago) link
xxp hahaha kudos
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Saturday, 18 June 2022 22:31 (one year ago) link
Steve's 24-hour Letters to Santa fundraiser is livestreaming until 6 p.m. Central on Tuesday 12/20.
Scroll down for the music schedule -- Fred Armisen in a few minutes (9 p.m. Central), Will Oldham at 5 a.m., David Pajo at 10 a.m., Nina Nastasia 4:20 p.m., lots more in between.
― The self-titled drags (Eazy), Tuesday, 20 December 2022 02:44 (one year ago) link
The funniest thing about the fundraiser is that when you buy a ticket iirc you don't get to pick when during the 24-hours you get to be seated.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 20 December 2022 03:23 (one year ago) link
Bummer they moved it from Second City. I just don't understand how anyone could sit in the seats at Constellatioon for more than a couple hours. My back hurts thinking about it.
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Tuesday, 20 December 2022 03:24 (one year ago) link
er, Constellation
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Tuesday, 20 December 2022 03:25 (one year ago) link
It used to be that the ticket allowed you entry at any point in the 24 hours. Have seen some great acts (Jason Molina, Oldham, Nina Nastasia, Shellac, John D.) at odd hours. Never tried to make it in during the Tweedy prime time.
― The self-titled drags (Eazy), Tuesday, 20 December 2022 03:35 (one year ago) link
I snagged tickets to one of Tweedy's May all-request charity shows. He can be pretty funny.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 20 December 2022 03:36 (one year ago) link
He has not budged an inch since 1985/86, a time when he inveighed against "horrible beatbox rap" to John Leland in Spin… going forward to eight years ago, when in consenting to let an electronic musician use something he did, simply HAD to let it be known that he still considers dance music to be dogshit and exclusively the province of Al Jourgenson and other insufficiently punk rock Chicagoans he disliked in the 1980s… there was also a guy from Tortoise talking about that he was bewildered unto indignation re: house music (as pure an underground musical phenomenon as there has ever been) and remixes…
in my experience, it was very commonplace for his ilk in the 1980s to sneer at all black music as showbiz, sellout, pandering pop crap… has he ever evinced enthusiasm for any black music ever? other than the Bad Brains or Mick Collins? Does he like Chuck Berry and Little Richard, or jazz music? Or does those acts sound too much like the SNL band?
― veronica moser, Monday, 6 February 2023 15:46 (one year ago) link
he is a big bill withers fan
― Animal Bitrate (Raw Patrick), Monday, 6 February 2023 15:57 (one year ago) link
Not always a fan of Steven Hyden, but I thought this was pretty lol in response to one of Albini's recent mini-rants:
You're a 60-year-old poker player from the Midwest. You're more Steely Dan than punk at this point. https://t.co/nVjhEKOhNG— Steven Hyden (@Steven_Hyden) February 6, 2023
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:00 (one year ago) link
Saw 2 tweets mentioning this . One was from 2015
Steve Albini:"[Jazz] is a signifier for musical adulthood. To embrace jazz is to don a kind of graduation cap, signifying a broadening of tastes outside 'mere' rock. This ostentatious display of 'sophistication' is an insult & I find the graduation cappers transparent & tedious— giant fossil (@dolgthvari) October 13, 2020
― curmudgeon, Monday, 6 February 2023 16:04 (one year ago) link
My all-time favorite Steve Albini rant. In which he compares jazz to a squalid, drug-filled string of alleys pic.twitter.com/tkrzmfXOJC— Zach Schonfeld (@zzzzaaaacccchhh) September 29, 2015
― curmudgeon, Monday, 6 February 2023 16:05 (one year ago) link
like a lot of people, albini's weakness is that he has a narrow set of aesthetic preferences that he treats as Musical Law
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:08 (one year ago) link
My girlfriend got me into soul music, certainly more than I ever have been, Bill Withers in particular
https://www.imposemagazine.com/features/an-interview-with-steve-albini
― curmudgeon, Monday, 6 February 2023 16:12 (one year ago) link
Nah. He has a narrow set of aesthetic preferences that he brings to bear professionally and occasionally mentions on Twitter, and other people treat them as Musical Law because they really like Shellac or the Pixies or whatever. I wouldn't have wanted to hear a Ramones album engineered by Rudy Van Gelder, would you? (Don't lie just for rhetorical points, please.)
Anyway, he's not quite as hard-line as he claims to be. He's recorded an album — a good one! — for Mats Gustafsson's The Thing, and even played guitar on a Ken Vandermark record once.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:16 (one year ago) link
tbh i do now want to hear that ramones album
― mark s, Monday, 6 February 2023 16:18 (one year ago) link
ha i was just searching actually i was like he HAD to have worked with Vandermark at some point
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:19 (one year ago) link
i mean i'm a big fan of him, and generally it seems like he's sort of the inverse of a lot of musical figures, the people who have worked the most closely with him tend to speak the most highly of him as opposed to his public image
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link
I've interviewed him — he's smart and self-aware. And funny. People always seem to take everything he says super-seriously, like he's some Old Testament prophet.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:26 (one year ago) link
It could be argued that without these narrow-minded blind spots he might not have had the same focus to establish a uniquely identifiable sound. If he suddenly decided Steely Dan sounds amazing and added some of their studio methods to his own, it would immediately stop sounding like a Steve Albini recording.
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
I know discourse these days is intentionally set around drawing battle lines but, ftr, it is possible to generally like Albini and think he's a good guy (his charity work for one, is really respectable) but also think it's funny when his twitter persona gets punctured a little.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:40 (one year ago) link
I remember a Big Black interview in melody maker where he was asked what his thoughts were on hendrix - the interviewer suggested that albini might be a fan due to hendrix using his guitar as some some of noise weapon - and albini's response was something along the lines of eh, he's terrible, anyone can play that widdly-widdly guitar wank shit
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:49 (one year ago) link
Remember it well!
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:55 (one year ago) link
I was sixteen at the time and very impressionable and in thrall to US noise rock, and even I thought that was one of the dumbest things I'd ever read
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 6 February 2023 16:58 (one year ago) link
I wonder if Woke Albini still has all these notions about blues, jazz and house music.
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:02 (one year ago) link
I never got why American indie musicians of Albini's generation(ish) were so hung up on punk. I remember at the time thinking why are they still going on about punk?
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:11 (one year ago) link
I could explain at length but am on phone, basically they had all come out of the USHC scene which was obsessed w/ "authenticity"
― sleeve, Monday, 6 February 2023 17:14 (one year ago) link
I kinda like Boz Skaggs tho— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) February 6, 2023
― mookieproof, Monday, 6 February 2023 17:23 (one year ago) link
JJ is vocalist for the hardcore band Daddy's Boy:
fun fact jon was wearing his aja sweatpants when we recorded with steve and it was a Topic of Conversation (in a collegial taking the piss sort of way) https://t.co/B8GSmMzCK7— jj skolnik (@modernistwitch) February 6, 2023
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:24 (one year ago) link
yall wanna think for a moment he might be trolling jeez just a bit about steely dan
steely dan is also the whitest music imaginable
― a (waterface), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:26 (one year ago) link
whitest? not sure what that means
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:27 (one year ago) link
I can imagine whiter
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:28 (one year ago) link
this is massive Skrewdriver erasure
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:28 (one year ago) link
When someone says something is "the whitest [x] imaginable" I think it's fair to ask them to name "the blackest [x] imaginable." So whaddya got?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link
Venom
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:30 (one year ago) link
i don't accept your rhetorical challenge sorry
people really get mad though when you come for steely dan
― a (waterface), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:30 (one year ago) link
It's a sad state of affairs when musicians like Chuck Rainey and Bernard Purdie are forced into making the whitest music imaginable
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:31 (one year ago) link
I think it's just his opinion as a self-professed "non-dilettante." Now, I don't agree with him about, say, jazz's supposed failings or indulgences (in his opinion), but just as I wouldn't expect a baseball fan to like football, despite them both being sports, I wouldn't expect a rock fan to like jazz (or country or rap or anything else, and variations on vice versa).
What's sort of weird is that he is a producer/engineer, so should have an interest in staying at least open minded enough to attract different projects, but I guess he isn't interested in that. Compare that to, say, I dunno, Rick Beato, who every once in a while on his channel goes through the top 10 songs and offers commentary. He's the first to admit when something is not to his taste, but he says he wants to stay open to new ideas so that if he's ever put in the position to work with someone in those musical fields he at least has a base knowledge. But if ever there was a person *not* open to new ideas it's Albini, a dude who knows what works for him and doesn't feel the need to go beyond that, which is I guess truly the definition of a non-dilettante.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 6 February 2023 17:31 (one year ago) link
xxpost well when you come at them in the whitest way possible...
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:31 (one year ago) link
https://www.complex.com/music/2017/09/hip-hop-reacts-to-death-of-steely-dan-co-founder-walter-becker
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2023 17:40 (one year ago) link
he's a fall fan, including the late 90's to early 00's material it seems, so he's right on my book
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8maHil8GKY
― CerebralCaustic, Monday, 6 February 2023 17:55 (one year ago) link
liberalism is the zeotgeist. its always the tendency for its radicalization isn't it?
― CerebralCaustic, Monday, 6 February 2023 17:59 (one year ago) link
― a (waterface), Monday, February 6, 2023 12:26 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah this isn't even remotely true
I remain baffled by the fact that this pitiful edgelord continues to get a pass from many of the same people who gleefully go for the throats of other boomer and Gen X icons with past crimes nowhere near as severe or despicable as Albini's. Dude has become the equivalent of everybody's racist friend who "doesn't really mean it, he just has a weird sense of humor, you just need to get to know him, he's actually a sweetheart, also he has so many black friends." Fuck this guy
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 6 February 2023 18:41 (one year ago) link
His whole reiterated hatred of house and pop in the mid-2010s also made me suspicious - as a mere observer who found Albini insufferable anyway - there may be a troubling underlying context for it all. Does the man like black music at all? But apparently he has worked with black musicians (I don't pay close attention).
Anyway fuck Albini
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 6 February 2023 18:46 (one year ago) link
Those Days Are Gone Forever: Steely Dan’s Grumpy Old White Guys’ BluesKevin FellezsPages 265-286 | Published online: 25 Nov 2021
ABSTRACTSteely Dan has always been a grumpy old guy’s band. In this essay, I listen to the ways in which Becker and Fagen turn their critical misandry on middle-aged American boomer generation males, adrift in vats of self-pity, marinating in melancholy and regret, and fermenting inexorably into elderly obsolescence. The duo masked their baleful assessment of white masculinist anxieties in music which blended jazz and rock sensibilities painstakingly polished to a smooth glossy aural sheen – all of which articulated an adultification of rock music culture in the 1970s.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19401159.2022.2008164?journalCode=rrms20
― a (waterface), Monday, 6 February 2023 18:46 (one year ago) link
he has evidence!
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Monday, 6 February 2023 18:50 (one year ago) link
I have evidence for both sides tho
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/my-high-school-crush-on-steely-dan
― a (waterface), Monday, 6 February 2023 18:54 (one year ago) link
Feel like the whitest music imaginable is the poll that would end ILM and we have to do it.
― Unfairport Convention (PBKR), Monday, 6 February 2023 18:57 (one year ago) link
as far as I can tell Albini's entire discography would fall somewhere between the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Barry Manilow
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:00 (one year ago) link
― sleeve, Monday, February 6, 2023 5:14 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah, this. in a lot of ways the u.s. was getting more reactionary and hostile, the music business was becoming more neoliberal, and punk rushed in to fill a void for a generation, it was a meaningful identity and then a means of living and was guarded with almost a religious zeal. like everything in america it was shaped by white supremacy. i think albini's set of tics reflect all of that, and also that maybe he's savvy enough to perform for his aging audience, it's probably good for business.
on steely dan, i hear primarily jewishness and the american songbook.
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:02 (one year ago) link
the most Soros-funded globalist music imaginable
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:04 (one year ago) link
the beatnik culture that steely dan emerges from was much more liberal than the options afforded to young men in the 80s, but that didn't translate into a more liberal environment after 1970 - things got worse. i think the anger from punk reflects that.
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:06 (one year ago) link
People should look at the complex link I posted
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:11 (one year ago) link
that's a cool article. one similar example i like in house music is anthony shakir building a 7 minute banger from the drum outro of "aja"
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:15 (one year ago) link
x-post good post from map up there! but yeah, in general feel us 80's punk stuff is overtly puritanical about authenticity, hard work, in a sort of a weird smash of protestant/diy feelings.
― fpsa, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:18 (one year ago) link
1. about anywhere from 20-10 years ago, one of his fondest hopes came to pass: rock music (he, much like cretins like Eddie Trunk, is focused on "rock music" when he chooses to go past "punk rock" —it's never "rock and roll") ceased to have a significant presence in mainstream culture. G/B/D became a niche activity, all the better for his ideological preferences: the kind of bands that are meaningful in his view are no longer on major labels and slug it out indie-style all the way: let the horrible pop, r&b and hip-hop miscreants prostitute themselves for the almighty dollar! if one can only afford to be in a touring and recording act due to an upper middle class safety net, so be it!
2. Is there such thing as a baseball fan who showers gleeful contempt on football or other sports, as if they are illegitimate (notwithstanding the injuries that render football often perilous for players)? I do expect fans of music, such as every single solitary poster on ILM/ILX, to have at least minor curiosity and interest in genres they are not daily immersed in, and above all I think people who, whether punk rock dead enders or goons like Trunk who are forever offended that hard rock and metal don't get enuff respect from the RRHoF, doggedly insist on the primacy of "rock music" are the ones deserving of contempt.
― veronica moser, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:21 (one year ago) link
found a baseball fan like that:
User avatarlevel 1frenchclub71·11 yr. agoJust wanted to say that your description of baseball v. other sports (ie baseball v. trying to get an object into/through/across a line) on episode 37 of the Baseball Prospectus podcast almost kind of changed the way I look at sports.25User avatarlevel 2steve_albiniOp ·11 yr. agoYeah, once you get into baseball other team sports just look like variations on a theme. Dogs fighting over a rag doll.41
Just wanted to say that your description of baseball v. other sports (ie baseball v. trying to get an object into/through/across a line) on episode 37 of the Baseball Prospectus podcast almost kind of changed the way I look at sports.25
User avatarlevel 2steve_albiniOp ·11 yr. ago
Yeah, once you get into baseball other team sports just look like variations on a theme. Dogs fighting over a rag doll.41
― omar little, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:25 (one year ago) link
I do expect fans of music, such as every single solitary poster on ILM/ILX, to have at least minor curiosity and interest in genres they are not daily immersed in, and above all I think people who, whether punk rock dead enders or goons like Trunk who are forever offended that hard rock and metal don't get enuff respect from the RRHoF, doggedly insist on the primacy of "rock music" are the ones deserving of contempt.
You are wrong to expect this. I recognize that there are whole universes of music that are Not For Me, and I choose to spend my finite mortal lifespan exploring the music that is For Me in depth, rather than trying to find the one or two records in *insert genre of your choice here* that might appeal to me. And it goes both ways — I don't expect some 17-year-old Harry Styles fan to go trawling through Incantation's catalog, or Cecil Taylor's, to find something they like! Why should they?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:26 (one year ago) link
the kind of bands that are meaningful in his view are no longer on major labels and slug it out indie-style all the way: let the horrible pop, r&b and hip-hop miscreants prostitute themselves for the almighty dollar! if one can only afford to be in a touring and recording act due to an upper middle class safety net, so be it!
i see this kind of heated pushback against albinism (lol, albini-ism?) from people on this board and used to agree with it wholesale, but now it's like.. there's a point here, just like albs has a point, but there's a problem of perspective and suitably issued blame, like it's not albini's fault that politically america is next-to-impossible for people to be creative and make art, in a slightly different set of ways every few decades or so.
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:29 (one year ago) link
Steely Dan does suck though
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:32 (one year ago) link
It's pretty common, but it still amazes me when a critic or well-regarded musician who is clearly well-versed in music proudly spouts their prejudice against a large part of it - jazz, classical, hip-hop, whatever. It just seems strange to me - I'm not sure I can think of anything analogous in other popular art forms. The closest may be the debate over Marvel films in cinema, but even then that's directed at a particular studio rather than a whole genre (plenty of comic book or graphic novel adaptations went on to great acclaim before Marvel blew up).
― birdistheword, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:33 (one year ago) link
I can only assume predictive text intervened when you were typing Steeleye Span.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:34 (one year ago) link
xp idk didn't painters do it all the time from like the 18th century onward? i think it's a part of the discourse of modernism.
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:35 (one year ago) link
He's said that, as an engineer, judgment/taste can only get in the way of the job -- he's there to record the act that paid him to be there. He's not a Rubin or Lanois curating his partnerships, he's not an arranger, and his ethos goes against shaping the band he's recording to fit his tastes.
And Steely Dan as the antithesis of punk has to do with putting chops and polish at the forefront.
― made a mint from mmm mmm mmm mmm (Eazy), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:36 (one year ago) link
my first exposure to steely dan was The Royal Scam, which was solidly misleading; right before they went to the far end of the slick and polished sound, they were at their most abrasive. really loved them right away though, still think they're pretty far out in front of a lot of bands and it's a shame that their brand of blackly comic lyricism hasn't really found an heir in an equivalently clever current act.
― omar little, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:36 (one year ago) link
steely dan also the antithesis in being a storytelling band, sort of a noir narrator type thing, vs the angry acerbic venting. it's a bit more sad and wry, and while punk also has self-loathing, SD's presents itself in a different manner.
― omar little, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:38 (one year ago) link
xps That is a good point. I kind of understand it in that context because it's part of the motivation to break from the past and do something innovative or even revolutionary. I guess that's comparable to what the French New Wave did - I don't think they were always right and they unfairly torched some great filmmakers who didn't deserve it, but it was part of the mentality that drove them to be revolutionary filmmakers.
― birdistheword, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:38 (one year ago) link
steely dan are a super weird and singular band doing like "high art short story writer" stuff. being triggered by expensively produced studio polish after you exit your 20s seems like a rather underdeveloped stance... to me the analogy is being some kind of more "raw, honest" filmmaker who throws out all golden-era hollywood films as being aesthetically invalid because they were expensively made, including hitchcock or whoever.
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:41 (one year ago) link
I thought it was interesting in Kelefa Sanneh's book that he saw punk as kind of his formative ideological impulse that informed his latter genre-ist leanings. it makes me wonder about how other ppl can come through the same experience and latching themselves to certain tropes or cliches that develop from it, harden into orthodoxies, and never develop curiosity beyond what are ultimately aesthetic surfaces that have no necessary attachment to ideology
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:42 (one year ago) link
like, recording music a certain way as an ethical stance is 'interesting to me' but also has a limitation in terms of its transmissibility to people without your exact background
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:43 (one year ago) link
He's also openly accusing them of taking the lion's share of credit for the work of other musicians. That seems relevant to Albini's whole thing, being the guy who famously preferred to be credited as a "recording engineer," not a producer
― intheblanks, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:44 (one year ago) link
I'd compare it to the Motown sound (orchestrated, correct) vs. the Stax sound (immediate and live).
― made a mint from mmm mmm mmm mmm (Eazy), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:46 (one year ago) link
Deep in the replies:
somehow i always end up talking to the one hipster at the party that hates the beatles snoooooooooze 💤💤💤💤💤— jenny lewis (@jennylewis) February 6, 2023
― made a mint from mmm mmm mmm mmm (Eazy), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:47 (one year ago) link
i think there's a solid connection between studio time being very expensive and gatekept, and the sound that ultimately emerges from that process, especially if you're a real outsider. but yeah at a certain point the outsider becomes the insider and the whole outside/inside binary seems kind of cynical and hypocritical. like, there's a connection between material process and aesthetics but it's far from one-to-one.
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:47 (one year ago) link
i wd simply not be provoked by a random Steve Albini quote in 2023
― bald, mean and full of beans (Noodle Vague), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:51 (one year ago) link
idk why exactly but i think it's fun to think about steve albini in 2023! like, this weird guy who seems to regard recording music as a kind of sin that has to be confessed still riding for this shit today. and then just kind of imagining the aging punk rockers vehemently nodding at being anti-steely dan, like fuck you dudes in your 30s, you're wrong! and it's ultimately a battle of the needy children. and hopefully donald fagen, bless him, isn't even aware of any of it.
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:54 (one year ago) link
it's fun to think about sure, he's just not pushing my buttons
― bald, mean and full of beans (Noodle Vague), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
does ian mackaye like steely dan? I wouldn't be surprised
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Monday, 6 February 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
recognizing that many things are not for you is not the same as insisting that anything other than G/B/D on indie labels is false, coupled with a gleeful contempt towards idioms that do not resemble (or in his view oppose) his preferred method, which is my point…I've never noticed unperson evincing an attitude as such…
1. a few years ago, he tweeted some shit wherein Spotify and/or some of the other streamers were being criticized, and he made a point to say that the major labels still sucked worse… my recollection was that major labels had no specific bearing on this topic, but in his mind, even the unprecedented usurious of Spotify and Big tech were no patch on major labels, as if it was still 1987…
2. it is very OTM that he and his ilk had a puritan self-righteousness inculcated by Maximum R&R and "the scene"…and yet I think almost any of his peers have moved on from that attitude and would have been hideously embarrassed by the full, proudly bigoted remark on jazz music —from 2015, no less! excerpted above…
3. his business practices and his belief in keeping costs down for clients who want or need that are beyond reproach…and yeah, he clearly likes winding people up, and I certainly fall for that pretty easily…
― veronica moser, Monday, 6 February 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
You know, Steve Albini is Steve Albini.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:05 (one year ago) link
still one of my favorite replies pic.twitter.com/21eV0Q8a03— Good Steely Dan Takes (@baddantakes) February 6, 2023
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:11 (one year ago) link
Which seems glib to say, but at a certain point I just accepted that he’s a prickly dude who’s annoying in certain ways but has mellowed out in others. (Seek out some of his zine writing from the 80s! It ain’t pretty, he’d probably disavow that now.) He kinda is who he is and I decided to just accept that and love Shellac with a full heart, because it makes life happier.
For an example closer to home - and rest his soul, not to rankle anyone - Morbs’ posts used to drive be absolutely nuts. His proclamations, his responses; to me, a conflict-averse guy, he was a desert cactus. But at some point I just embraced that Morbs was Morbs.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:13 (one year ago) link
I want to know when and why albini went to christiania, it seems like the total opposite of his vibe, I just picture him scowling at all the crusties and dealers the entire time
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
ha, I kind of agree with the stance on record labels, they are after all on the other side of the deals with streaming services that cheat artists out of money, and they are the ones that are supposed to be representing the artists!
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
more power to anyone who can extract joy from his music it must take some serious alchemy
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:20 (one year ago) link
This seems accurate? Part of the context where I’ve seen him make this argument was about Eve 6’s royalties, like they get nothing from streaming because of unrecouped advances from 1996. Label deals are still pretty bad for most artists AFAICT.
Layer that with the sweetheart deals majors made with Spotify to get chunks of cash that completely bypassed artists, hurting their own artists and every indie.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:26 (one year ago) link
Yeah, I mean, Spotify might not pay much, if anything, but no one is in debt to Spotify, and Spotify does not own the rights to anyone's music.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 6 February 2023 20:27 (one year ago) link
It’s good to pay attention to Albini when he records cool stuff and makes cool albums and wins at poker; it’s really bad to pay attention to him when he’s criticising music he doesn’t like, because he’s awful at it, has always been awful at it, and it makes him look stupid.
― Master of Treacle, Monday, 6 February 2023 20:30 (one year ago) link
the fact that he was a major talking head in the wax trax doc is so interesting to me. im really curious of the politics of that haha. what would jim nash say ?
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, 6 February 2023 20:36 (one year ago) link
cretins like Eddie Trunk
...who last night, the very same night BONNIE FUCKING RAITT won one of grammy's biggest awards and STEVIE FUCKING WONDER rocked the fuck out of "higher ground," tweeted that he fast forwarded thru the entire show because he didn't see any "rock" or "guitars." fuck every one of those cretins indeed.
(ok, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.)
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 6 February 2023 20:59 (one year ago) link
2. Is there such thing as a baseball fan who showers gleeful contempt on football or other sports, as if they are illegitimate (notwithstanding the injuries that render football often perilous for players)?
the late dr. morbius
― mookieproof, Monday, 6 February 2023 21:06 (one year ago) link
xpost the Grammys just need to give the band UFO a lifetime achievement award and he might shut up
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2023 21:08 (one year ago) link
most european bookers sort of reflexively book bands at christiania because they've been putting on shows forever and you can pull a good crowd at the main club there. it's probably a lot less shocking now as a place post-legalization in the u.s. (and post their heavy crackdown on harder drugs, though I assume that waxes & wanes) but prior to the present age it was pretty shocking to pull in & like everybody is white guys with dreads smoking giant bombers in the open. anyhow the main venue there was hosted pretty much every non-mainstream genre you can think of, tour routings for indie bands are kind of like trade routes and it's a stop.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 6 February 2023 21:20 (one year ago) link
jenny lewis opinions? not a high bar i guess
― CerebralCaustic, Monday, 6 February 2023 21:53 (one year ago) link
You are wrong to expect this.How is veronica moser wrong to expect “minor curiosity and interest in genres they are not daily immersed in”? Isn’t that just basic intellectual curiosity? For that matter, how does your example of trawling through Cecil Taylor’s entire oeuvre constitute “minor curiosity”? For me personally, I never had much use for much of what is considered metal (Black Sabbath’s first four records excepted), but realized the other day that I hadn’t knowingly heard an Iron Maiden song. So I checked out a few, more-or-less dug them, and will probably leave it at that. I had some minor curiosity about them, and didn’t need to listen to their entire catalog to satisfy it. I think we’ve all done that to varying degrees, and I doubt we’d be on this board if we hadn’t.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 6 February 2023 22:24 (one year ago) link
I recall unperson wrote a piece rating Britney Spears album covers(?)... surely even that qualifies!
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Monday, 6 February 2023 22:27 (one year ago) link
ftr the youths have a more developed sense of Minor Curiosity than my generation did -- thanks to modes of distribution.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 February 2023 22:29 (one year ago) link
map otm
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 February 2023 22:32 (one year ago) link
Punk rock dudes recording sessions of themselvesThey don't give a fuck about anybody else
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 February 2023 22:44 (one year ago) link
Yet the refrain would still be LOST WAGES
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 February 2023 22:45 (one year ago) link
the thing about his Dan/Boz Scaggs/etc hate is it's just reflexive punk stuff, it's not really more complicated than that. Fuck that music the yuppies like, that kinda thing. It's pretty immune to self-interrogation is you let it bake in too long.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 6 February 2023 22:56 (one year ago) link
^^^ otm
― sleeve, Monday, 6 February 2023 23:01 (one year ago) link
Learn to work the Travis BeanPlay just what I feel
― made a mint from mmm mmm mmm mmm (Eazy), Monday, 6 February 2023 23:10 (one year ago) link
Yeah, as demonstrated, I doubt Albini, smart guy that knows about music, could clearly put into words his hate for Steely Dan without describing something that is not Steely Dan. He hates the *idea* of Steely Dan. It's just punk reactionary goofing.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 6 February 2023 23:14 (one year ago) link
I think you can predict Albini liking or not liking an artist's music on purely ideological grounds. Stevie Wonder fought a valiant struggle to wrestle back rights to his catalog from Motown, thus Albini likes Stevie Wonder. Rush were a bunch of quasi-Ayn Rand-heads so he hates Rush. He flip-flopped on hating Trans Am when they decided not to let their music be used in a commercial. I think he posted something like, "Hey guys, I like Trans Am now!"
Did Steely Dan ever stump for Reagan or anything like that?
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 00:26 (one year ago) link
Weird that this prick hasn’t been cancelled yet
― ian, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 00:59 (one year ago) link
99 new answers
Sixty-Year-Old Man Demonstrates Shitposting Prowess
i mean there are any number of things you can bash this guy for but please stop taking his tossed-off steely dan takes so deeply seriously
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 01:45 (one year ago) link
is the word 'cancel' ironic or not?
― CerebralCaustic, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 01:54 (one year ago) link
do you have special glasses that make 97% of the thread invisible when you post
― sanguisug boggy bogg (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 02:01 (one year ago) link
They're two entities who take recorded sound very seriously, but have entirely opposite philosophies around it; why should this antipathy shock anyone?
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 03:42 (one year ago) link
― Unfairport Convention (PBKR),
why bother? everyone knows it's Pavement.
great posts, map.
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 08:03 (one year ago) link
i find the idea you can 'cancel' someone to be abhorrent moralistic stone-throwing - sure, if they've done something terrible you can withdraw your custom or attention, but in more ambiguous cases it feels like it isn't even accurate to say everyone (the moralistic 'we') has en masse decided to do so - usually many don't - and i do not wish albini 'cancelled' especially as i rather enjoy a lot of his work, BUT it is clear that his recent spree of atonement and personal growth etc etc has been with rather more in mind than just the edgy art of the 80s. witness the edgy tour diaries of the 80s - yeah he was a silly young man, but if the july 18 entry here doesn't chill your blood then idk: https://web.archive.org/web/20000818044126/http://petdance.com/actionpark/bigblack/tourdiary/ (CW: bad stuff)
now my intention posting that here is not to invite castigation on someone who's clearly not the same person as he was 35 years ago (not to mention living in a world that is not the same as it was 35 years ago), but to add colour to his notion of the redemptive journey. these are the pits from which he rose. they're ugly. he'd definitely agree they're ugly. you may not agree that he has atoned for such things - what are basically self-admitted crimes, even - but let's be clear: if you want to 'cancel' albini, the distance between what he was and what he is must be taken into account. the reason why everyone turned en masse on cornelius wasn't so much what he'd done as a kid way back in the 1980s but the lack of remorse, even the glee in recounting it, and the lack of an apology. it feels to me that albini is legitimately sorry and self-reproachful about his behaviour during those days
that said, having read that a few months ago, i have felt like i'll find it hard to listen to anything he made before shellac, knowing these were some of the thoughts and impulses coursing through his brain in those days - i don't think you can cancel art on any grounds other than aesthetic, but big black is all about the aesthetic of the edgy young man and i personally don't need that in such a concentrated form. shellac onwards, and (some of) his engineering jobs, though? forever.
ofc if you read the above link and are sufficiently repulsed to cast albini out for good, that's your decision. he makes a good case study in forgivability imo, in that his crimes are neither too concrete to be absolutely condemnatory nor trifling enough that castigating him for them looks petty
― imago, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 08:31 (one year ago) link
And it goes both ways — I don't expect some 17-year-old Harry Styles fan to go trawling through Incantation's catalog, or Cecil Taylor's, to find something they like! Why should they?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 6 February 2023 bookmarkflaglink
Because a 17 year old is often in discovery mode and absorbing all sorts of random things so they absolutely should be listening to some free jazz.
It's a shame that age is used as an excuse not to engage, so it goes the other way too.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 08:39 (one year ago) link
"i think albini's set of tics reflect all of that, and also that maybe he's savvy enough to perform for his aging audience, it's probably good for business."
Performing for an audience and giving them what they want sure is punk tradition. Savvy.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 08:45 (one year ago) link
You don't need to go back to his youth to find some reprehensible shit said by Albini - see: meeting Tyler the Creator/Odd Future less than a decade ago. If people want to take him to task for that, right on. The reaction to a tossed off tweet about not liking Steely Dan has been silly, though.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 09:09 (one year ago) link
His tweets on music does make it look like the contrition over past deeds as a bit of an act. Still has that edgelord in him.
And when people say sorry and mean it they also quieten down quite a bit. Highly suspect behaviour.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 09:45 (one year ago) link
some steely dan fans are pissed around here it seems
― CerebralCaustic, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 10:38 (one year ago) link
some steely dan fans are pissed around here it seems― CerebralCaustic, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 9:38 PM (one hour ago)
― CerebralCaustic, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 9:38 PM (one hour ago)
Literally came back to this board just to see this happening.Steely Dan fucking sux, this board has a hard-on for them (except 40% of it according to this old poll).
― raven, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 11:47 (one year ago) link
Nick Cave: I just think artists should freely express themselves without a filter, even if there are consequences, and even if it’s a little messy sometimes
ilx: die in a fire you old bastard
Steve Albini: I have no respect for jazz, techno, rap, or most of the other musical art forms coincidentally created by black people. My hobbies are playing poker and starting arguments with people on twitter, where my persona is that of a grouchy, obstinate misanthrope. Please enjoy my band, “Rapeman”
ilx: what a mensch!
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 12:15 (one year ago) link
omg
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 12:21 (one year ago) link
Tbf Cave is 4-5 years older than Albini
― Master of Treacle, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 12:38 (one year ago) link
"Literally came back to this board just to see this happening."
The board is a dictatorship not a democracy. The ilx police will be at your door soon.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 12:59 (one year ago) link
(except 40% of it according to this old poll).
29/100 = 29% iirc
― Unfairport Convention (PBKR), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:01 (one year ago) link
Dated a girl in the mid-80s who got free tickets from work to see the Red Hot Chili Peppers at the Vic. We came for opener Trouble Funk, who absolutely slayed. Started before house lights went down, bounced non-stop for an hour. We bolted two bars into the yabba dabba doo. https://t.co/9qARZIPRIp— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) September 27, 2021
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:09 (one year ago) link
Ugh
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:24 (one year ago) link
In the UK the ageing soulboy white rock critic's African-American band of choice circa 1985 (or so I've been led to believe)
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:40 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtV_nQKhkdY
― a (waterface), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:59 (one year ago) link
tbf Trouble Funk ruled and always ruled.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 14:17 (one year ago) link
I will now always think of RHCP as “the yabba dabba doo,” thanks based Albini
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 14:27 (one year ago) link
(Regarding Nick Cave - nothing against him but I haven’t gotten into his work or read much about him, so no real opinion or investment in how his views have or haven’t evolved over time.)
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 14:31 (one year ago) link
fwiw Cave has become a boring old cancel culture whinger, "you can't say anything without the woke snowflake police throwing you in jail merely for being Australian" etc. etc.
― Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 14:36 (one year ago) link
Haha, RC, me too. A+, waterface
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 14:56 (one year ago) link
I just want to show respect for Neanderthal's new screen name. respect
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:18 (one year ago) link
the reason why everyone turned en masse on cornelius wasn't so much what he'd done as a kid way back in the 1980s but the lack of remorse, even the glee in recounting it, and the lack of an apology.
iirc wasn't his response more "yes I was involved in some bullying but a lot of what I said in that interview was made up", which idk, kinda jives with the whole counterculture element that was going on in the 90s. think people are finding it easy to turn on him cuz he hasn't really done much in the last 20 years
― frogbs, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:28 (one year ago) link
I'm sorry but this:Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S) at 8:36 7 Feb 23fwiw Cave has become a boring old cancel culture whinger, "you can't say anything without the woke snowflake police throwing you in jail merely for being Australian" etc. etc.is bullshit and a massive oversimplification of a man who's past decade's work is not obsessed with "cancel culture" but mourning the loss of his childrenhttps://www.theredhandfiles.com/hallmark-card-hippie/
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:34 (one year ago) link
nick cave is the hip bono
― CerebralCaustic, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:37 (one year ago) link
i like you less every time you post
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:38 (one year ago) link
is this our first AI poster
― sanguisug boggy bogg (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:39 (one year ago) link
that's a truly magnificent response upper miss but it's also fair to say that Cave's parsing of this present moment in which people are reflecting on how their speech might impact others is essentially "but people must be FREE TO SPEAK, EVEN FORBIDDEN THOUGHTS!" free-speech-broism. it's reductive to say that's his whole deal now, but he does rehearse it a bit, and as tediously as, say, John Cleese.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:40 (one year ago) link
also, for the love of God, and of all His children, and of His grand creation, its splendor, its radiance, its indescribable sweetness -- in the name, I say, of all that is good and holy in this world: new board description
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:42 (one year ago) link
no i get it JCLC - i'm not saying that i don't have problems with stuff he says, but people read one thing and all of a sudden the perception is that he's vampire bill maher, like i read the red hand files quite often and he's not always going on about that stuff at all.
but i know the stuff you're talking about and he can be lazy as a thinker for sure. but i think it's unfair to characterize as the sum total of what he's about. (and obviously dealing with that much grief is never completely dignified for anyone, it's a messy thing)
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:46 (one year ago) link
or like i dunno sometimes when you're in a dark place it's also easy to start caring about other stuff to avoid thinking about the real stuff
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:47 (one year ago) link
Maybe it’s not a giant shock to see a white Australian dude slide rightward in his 60s?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:56 (one year ago) link
and obviously dealing with that much grief is never completely dignified for anyone, it's a messy thing
― sanguisug boggy bogg (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:57 (one year ago) link
that Cave piece you posted is really good UMS. He's similar to Albini in that he seems willing to talk about stuff in an open way and reflect on past mistakes and how his attitudes have changed, and that's good even if I may not personally agree with everything they say
― Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 16:04 (one year ago) link
I've read Cave's comments on cancel culture before. No, I don't like them, but I think he's reacting more to the toxic underbelly of the internet than what most people would consider a good example of cancel culture.
Forget the name, having a system of calling bad actors out that actually sees material consequences is an absolute necessity. and despite many wailings about its destructive harms, we still haven't achieved it. powerful people feel mild discomfort, sometimes even surge in popularity due to reactionary folk who view holding people accountable as an unpardonable sin. the people who wind up suffering actual material harm from organized mobs on the internet are the same people 'cancel culture' is meant to empower. Women, minorities, LGBTQ+ folk peppered with death threats, doxxing, etc. it still happens.
so on that end, no, I don't have a lot of patience for people whinging about 'cancel culture'.
What I suspect Cave is referring to, otoh, is not that (or at least not primarily that), but some of its less defensible usages. People who go crate digging into people's very distant pasts (i.e. teenage years) to find mild offenses to encourage people not to support them now, regardless of whether they're the same person or have even proactively owned up to and disavowed these views. and then there's the purity policing, like people swooping in to say "you saw THAT movie? but it had a key grip that was anti-semitic" as some people do.
but tbh, I haven't really seen many instances (outside of Doja Cat) where such campaigns gained any real traction, and even that one fizzled out fast. just view it as "toxic people looking for cheap likes and retweets". it's definitely not the norm, nor does it typically result in real harm. so using it as the face of cancel culture and objecting due to things like that is sort of bad faith.
but he also seems to take issue with the idea of people feeling as if they can speak in any manner possible to somebody because they are 'right', and tbh i'm a lot more sympathetic there. I've saw someone who was severely depressed about the state of the world and made the unfortunate statement "we deserve this" when one of the many bad things happened in America last year, and being told "fuck you, kill yourself if you feel that badly, leave everyone else out of it", and this being cheered on as an appropriate response. this affects not celebrities but everyday people.
I don't believe in tone policing, as harsh reactions to things I said in my 20s were how I learned my words hurt people and that I needed to consider what I was saying or even believing. but some of the toxicity is well out of bounds in proportion to what the other person said, and it's not coming from strangers, but people who know each other IRL where the shit is likely to be heavily internalized.
I can definitely see how grief would perhaps play into these views as well.
― sanguisug boggy bogg (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 16:39 (one year ago) link
My wife hates Steely Dan so much she’s starting a fan group called the Albini Babies— Jason Isbell (@JasonIsbell) February 7, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:55 (one year ago) link
Hmm.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:03 (one year ago) link
swear to God one of my fav bands but Twitter is gonna make me hate Steely Dan by the end of the week
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:05 (one year ago) link
are these the two extremes of the white dude muso spectrum?
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:13 (one year ago) link
jacob collier and gg allin; both suck
― imago, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:14 (one year ago) link
your mistake is thinking there are only two extremes
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:15 (one year ago) link
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/24/Vanilla_Ice-To_the_Extreme_%28album_cover%29.JPG
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:15 (one year ago) link
But you could say that Steely Dan represents white dudes who appropriate black musicand Albini represents white dudes who think authenticity means removing all traces of black influence from your music
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:16 (one year ago) link
― not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:17 (one year ago) link
If you need your faith restored, read any of Becker's letters to Jann Wenner, Wes Anderson, et al.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:48 (one year ago) link
Seeing recent headlines about Paul Schrader dissing The Last of Us (and the Sight & Sound Poll)--same Albini Energy there.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:11 (one year ago) link
"Dominion sucked"
― waiting for a czar to fall (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:13 (one year ago) link
But you could say that Steely Dan represents white dudes who appropriate black music
please explain how they do this any more egregiously than literally any other predominantly white rock band of this era
― Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:45 (one year ago) link
Yes, please.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:46 (one year ago) link
you realize that "represents" means they are not the only ones who did this
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:53 (one year ago) link
"ha ha, these people I cannot stop trolling say the 'the dan,'" says the be-fedoraed midwestern neo-puritan, despite the fact that as a dorky cub reporter for the Helena Hog Testicle (or whatever the paper was) he referred to the corporate rock band he loved in a live review as "the Halen."
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 19:38 (one year ago) link
Keep a movin; DanDon't you listen to him, Dan
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 19:48 (one year ago) link
What are his thoughts on the Lt. Dan Band?
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 19:49 (one year ago) link
No legs
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 19:53 (one year ago) link
One of the oddest early Albini raves I'd read was for UB40. Were they weird noise reggae before red red wine?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 19:54 (one year ago) link
https://i0.wp.com/www.swanfungus.com/blog/matter1/matter_7.jpg
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:01 (one year ago) link
first UB40 album and adjacent singles is neither weird nor noise but it is excellent in a way they moved away from when the hits got bigger
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:03 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKEqGcES4Xw
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:10 (one year ago) link
I was scrolling thru Albini's tweets... they're sure a mix of poker, politics, and declaring popular music to be irredeemable. He won't even let his Reply Guys off the hook, when one of them's like – "Well, Steve, you must admit that it may be a gateway to blah blah..." NOPE
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:38 (one year ago) link
"I was 55 when my wife got me into soul music" Jesus christ! and Bill Withers? does he not know that he's the one black artist that shitty James Taylor/David Crosby, no dancing folkie singer-songwriter people can countenance? Not a good look for Mr. MX-80!
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:56 (one year ago) link
Not sure I'm entirely comfy with yr last point there, at least the way you phrased it
― waiting for a czar to fall (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:58 (one year ago) link
Hey, I thought he never drives 55!
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:58 (one year ago) link
uh
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:19 (one year ago) link
I mean, Bill Withers is great
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:22 (one year ago) link
totally great
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:24 (one year ago) link
Steve seems like(1) pretty sound on politics, even on calling out people who you might expect him to be tribally loyal to(2) boringly obsessed by a hobby I have no interest in(3) conservative and reactionary about any music that isn't exactly his thing, in a way that can come across as pig ignorant, because it is pig ignorant.These three traits were all very much the standard for most of the American punks I knew about 20 years ago. So I don't know why he's treated as some kind of special case.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:28 (one year ago) link
xxxpost yeah, that post read creepily adjacent to Withers is 'not Black enough' as an artist to count or something. not that I'm defending Albini's musical tastes but idk maybe take another avenue to crack at them.
i'm down with all pro-Withers sentiment itt.
― waiting for a czar to fall (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:28 (one year ago) link
He makes good money off poker, hardly a hobby! Unless you meant recording albums by ex members of the Jesus Lizard et al.
― the kraftwerk killer (Matt #2), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:35 (one year ago) link
he's stated in interviews electrical audio would have gone belly up without his poker winnings
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:45 (one year ago) link
neanderthal otm and that idea is as pernicious as anything albini has said
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:46 (one year ago) link
when's that UB40 piece from?
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:52 (one year ago) link
I think it's not "conservative and reactionary about any music that isn't exactly his thing" about music as much as it is the context around how the recording was made. Even in that thread, his dislike of Steely Dan has to do with how it got made, related to his general perspective on how major-label albums get made (see The Problem with Music and also the ethical choice to take a flat fee on In Utero rather than points).
Also, he followed up the tweet by saying he was riffing on Laura Jane Grace's tweet about being the kind of punk who hates football.
― made a mint from mmm mmm mmm mmm (Eazy), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:54 (one year ago) link
CaAL otm
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 21:59 (one year ago) link
Yeah I'd say "conservative and reactionary about any music that isn't his thing" would seem often spot on e.g. "I detest club culture as deeply as I detest anything on earth."
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:00 (one year ago) link
September 1983 xxxposthttps://swanfungus.com/2008/11/matter-music-magazine-volume-1-number-5-september-1983/
― StanM, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:05 (one year ago) link
Interesting, that was about the time Labour of Love was released
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:15 (one year ago) link
his reactionary bit about big musical pronouncements is the antithesis of other grouchy old authenticity punk Henry Rollins, who really only seems to talk about music to praise things he likes these days.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:24 (one year ago) link
^which is in general a good approach if you can manage to pull it off
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:26 (one year ago) link
Yeah, Rollins seems like a useful contrast.
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:34 (one year ago) link
shame about his music but I trust rollins to make an OK jazz playlist at least
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:34 (one year ago) link
He did one in 2010 — part of a series of Blue Note compilations. It's pretty good!
Rollins' Choice
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:37 (one year ago) link
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, February 6, 2023 2:32 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:38 (one year ago) link
xps
nice one hank. actually much less basic choices than I expected
can't remember exactly why albini hates jazz other than his general disdain for music that sounds good and brings people joy. he seems to think it's a con of some kind iirc
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:40 (one year ago) link
This is where Albini was a year ago at least, contrite but also mentioning that he feels he hasn't been held to account for his edgelord behavior and writing. But by whom it's not stated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7iYe-3bRwg
― MaresNest, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:41 (one year ago) link
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/037/310/CjQ-v9oWgAAuoiO.jpeg
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:43 (one year ago) link
xps my opinion is steely dan and albinicore are two of the more unpleasant forms of music out there and why bother with ether
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:44 (one year ago) link
or either
having read the journal or whatever it is above I'd rather this dickhead just went away forever instead of making a performance out of this whole thing
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:46 (one year ago) link
Quite a condescending interview with Gillian Gilbert in there.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 22:51 (one year ago) link
Trying to stay above this but still somehow sort of nursing a grudge, a wound about this. Think I have had to deal directly with this kind of incurious disdainful lashing out one too many times, if that's how I want to describe it today.
― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:36 (one year ago) link
I promise you that the path that leads you to Steely Dan is more "incurious" than the path that leads you to Zeni Geva
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:38 (one year ago) link
what if you went through zeni geva and still ultimately ended up at steely dan?
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:43 (one year ago) link
Drinking scotch whisky all night long?
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:44 (one year ago) link
unless you've already been to zeni geva and found them hugely uninspiring
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:44 (one year ago) link
snap!
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:45 (one year ago) link
Heh, maybe. I hated Steely Dan for a long time myself. Can't remember what changed my mind exactly.
― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:53 (one year ago) link
Not sure what "pathway" got me there. It wasn't via Jimmy Buffett, if that's what you are implying.
― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 18:55 (one year ago) link
Azita is the only artist who can heal the Steely Dan/Albini rift
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:01 (one year ago) link
Also I love Steely Dan but honestly like this rush to defend maybe the two smuggest zillionaire dicks that ever existed is funny to me
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:03 (one year ago) link
I def still recognize the inspiration in hearing Zeni Geva or whatever other album that is still in my collection despite not haven't listened to it in ~20-25 years. It's really not interesting to me today to outright dismiss all sorts of stuff that I never would have listened to *on principal* when I was 15 or 20 or 30. And I'm glad that I don't draw the black/white lines that I did back then.
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:03 (one year ago) link
It's not just the two guys, though. It seems that much related music is implicated including, ahem, jazz. (xp)
― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:21 (one year ago) link
This is kinda where I land. I admire Albini's aesthetic in theory, and he's absolutely a talented and knowledgeable engineer, but too often the actual records (Zeni Geva, the Jesus Lizard, Shellac, most of Big Black even except for Atomizer) bore and disappoint me.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:23 (one year ago) link
What about, say, backup singer Catherine Russell, whose parents were both musicians- in particular her father, Luis Russell, was Louis Armstrong's musical director for many years - and who herself is keeping alive certain older musical traditions? (xp to me)
― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:27 (one year ago) link
B-b-but he couldn't have been dissing her, he doesn't even know who she is! In fact, her was trying to free her from her bondage! You're the racist Rhoda!
― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:28 (one year ago) link
Henry Rollins’ own music is absolutely dire but he gets a lot of credit from me for the amazing Infinite Zero reissue label and his early championing of Matthew Shipp.
― Alicia Silver Stone (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:34 (one year ago) link
And (re)releasing The Monks album, iirc.Okay, maybe people are right, playing Cap’n Save-A-Steely is tedious and tricky, too easy to take the bait and get caught in the trap.
― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:35 (one year ago) link
Infinite Zero was amazing, also reissued Gang of Four, Flipper, Trouble Funk, Alan Vega, Devo, Tom Verlaine
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
also when rightfully talking about Albini's misogyny in this thread might be good to keep this in mindhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/steely-dans-donald-fagen-arrested-for-domestic-assault-50634/
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 February 2023 19:58 (one year ago) link
I'm sure other people have already pointed this out, but there's a similar proto-edgelord vibe to both Steely Dan and Albini? Sheltered, bookish, intelligent boys who have this fascination with the gritty and the ugly and abject, and a kind of smugness about your unbothered, cool reaction to this stuff. Albini took it to a different level, but I think the impulse that motivates you to call your band 'Steely Dan' is similar to the one that motivates you call your band 'Big Black' or Rapeman, likewise recording a song like 'Everyone's Gone To The Movies' and Albini bragging about how cool he thinks child porn is.
― soref, Monday, 13 February 2023 09:36 (one year ago) link
What's this about child porn and Albini?
― Cow_Art, Monday, 13 February 2023 12:36 (one year ago) link
see my post above
― imago, Monday, 13 February 2023 12:36 (one year ago) link
as i said then i'm not here to stick knives in at all, but it provides context for SA's latter contrition and (former) artistic persona
― imago, Monday, 13 February 2023 12:48 (one year ago) link
wait is soref your sock?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 February 2023 13:53 (one year ago) link
how dare u do soref like this
― imago, Monday, 13 February 2023 13:55 (one year ago) link
oh ok I found out sorry
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 February 2023 13:56 (one year ago) link
What did you find out?
― after the pinefox (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 13 February 2023 16:15 (one year ago) link
He’s definitely said some pretty provocative things about cp. Not so much advocating for it, more gleefully defending its appeal. There are plenty of links to tour diaries, book reviews and interviews if you want to go looking, but I’m not going to post them here.
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 13 February 2023 16:24 (one year ago) link
imago posted a link up above, the CW is warranted. i didn't even really become aware of Albini until his work on In Utero and At Action Park, so I missed out on those years. i never really listen to the pre-Shellac stuff anyway, but even less likely to do so now - in other words, imago pretty otm
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 13 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
pic.twitter.com/Ig6H1zzC8r— skip intro (@chuchugoogoo) February 13, 2023
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 13 February 2023 18:34 (one year ago) link
Like Steve wouldn't be the virgin in that meme
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 13 February 2023 18:43 (one year ago) link
some good news re that meme, the patriarchy already exists
― ꙮ (map), Monday, 13 February 2023 19:03 (one year ago) link
Songs About Fucking The Patriarchy
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 13 February 2023 19:15 (one year ago) link
New Nick Cave missive out, sort of cheekily pro-cancellation:
I was dismayed to hear that my namesake, Tom Jones has had his murder ballad, Delilah cancelled by the Welsh Rugby Union, and roundly condemned by Police Chiefs and Politicians, for imagery of violence towards women and the fear it will inspire such acts. Research of course consistently shows this to be nonsense, but there are always certain types of, media attention seeking, public figures who love to perpetuate such myths. Therefore, as an artist who released a whole album of murder ballads, actually called "Murder Ballads", just how worried are you about your future cancellation, and what is your view on such censorship?TOM, BRISTOL, UKHow do you feel about the banning of the song Delilah sung by Welsh choirs at the Rugby? As someone who has written many murder ballads, do you think these sort of songs turn people into murderers?DYLAN, SWANSEA, UKDear Tom and Dylan,I just went online and found a Welsh male choir singing their rendition of 'Delilah' and I’m sorry to report that listening to this version of the song did make me feel like murdering someone, primarily the Welsh male choir. Or maybe it wasn’t the choir, but the song itself that disturbed me. I just don’t like it. I mean, I like Tom Jones. I sang a duet with him ('Green, Green Grass of Home' – a far superior murder balled) at a charity event a few years ago, and I like his version of 'Weeping Annaleah' which The Bad Seeds recorded on our Kicking Against the Pricks album, and his blistering version of 'Venus' which was playing at a party during my first teenage kiss, and his almighty scream in the middle of the na-na-na-na bit at the end of The Beatles' song, 'Hey Jude' – all this is good stuff, but 'Delilah', despite the fact that it was awarded the Ivor Novello in 1968, just sort of sucks. As someone who knows a thing or two about murder ballads, for my taste, it’s all too waltzy and strident and hammy and mariachi and triumphant. And the words are ugly – “I felt the knife in my hand and she laughed no more.” Really? Most damning of all, even The Sensational Alex Harvey Band, one of the greatest rock ‘n’ roll bands of all time, couldn’t do anything with it, although there is a wonderfully perverse attempt on the Old Grey Whistle Test. The inimitable Australian comic, Norman Gunston, lest we forget, also did a very funny parody of it back in the late seventies, which at the very least made you laugh.So, I don’t know, Tom, I can’t get too animated by the fact that 'Delilah' has been banned. I understand there is a principle here, but on some level I like the fact that some songs are controversial enough to be outlawed. It fills me with a kind of professional pride to be a part of the sometimes contentious business of songwriting. It’s cool. I like it. I just wish it was a more worthy song to be awarded that greatest of honours, indeed that supreme privilege, of being banned.Love, Nick
How do you feel about the banning of the song Delilah sung by Welsh choirs at the Rugby? As someone who has written many murder ballads, do you think these sort of songs turn people into murderers?DYLAN, SWANSEA, UK
Dear Tom and Dylan,
I just went online and found a Welsh male choir singing their rendition of 'Delilah' and I’m sorry to report that listening to this version of the song did make me feel like murdering someone, primarily the Welsh male choir. Or maybe it wasn’t the choir, but the song itself that disturbed me. I just don’t like it. I mean, I like Tom Jones. I sang a duet with him ('Green, Green Grass of Home' – a far superior murder balled) at a charity event a few years ago, and I like his version of 'Weeping Annaleah' which The Bad Seeds recorded on our Kicking Against the Pricks album, and his blistering version of 'Venus' which was playing at a party during my first teenage kiss, and his almighty scream in the middle of the na-na-na-na bit at the end of The Beatles' song, 'Hey Jude' – all this is good stuff, but 'Delilah', despite the fact that it was awarded the Ivor Novello in 1968, just sort of sucks. As someone who knows a thing or two about murder ballads, for my taste, it’s all too waltzy and strident and hammy and mariachi and triumphant. And the words are ugly – “I felt the knife in my hand and she laughed no more.” Really? Most damning of all, even The Sensational Alex Harvey Band, one of the greatest rock ‘n’ roll bands of all time, couldn’t do anything with it, although there is a wonderfully perverse attempt on the Old Grey Whistle Test. The inimitable Australian comic, Norman Gunston, lest we forget, also did a very funny parody of it back in the late seventies, which at the very least made you laugh.
So, I don’t know, Tom, I can’t get too animated by the fact that 'Delilah' has been banned. I understand there is a principle here, but on some level I like the fact that some songs are controversial enough to be outlawed. It fills me with a kind of professional pride to be a part of the sometimes contentious business of songwriting. It’s cool. I like it. I just wish it was a more worthy song to be awarded that greatest of honours, indeed that supreme privilege, of being banned.
Love, Nick
I suspect it's only a matter of time before Nick gets to Steely Dan.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:35 (one year ago) link
I dunno, the weirdest factoid in Our Band Could Be Your Life was that early '80s Steve Albini was dating a Playboy model.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:26 (one year ago) link
oh yeah that was funnyhe's been married for a long time
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 February 2023 21:10 (one year ago) link
the redeeming things about steve are his exemplary work ethic and business conduct - it's unarguable that he has facilitated a great deal of possibilities, space and creative license for recorded music and community, but i feel his own creative output has very little depth. it's a nasty taste in your mouth to read these tour diaries and whatever else from someone who's ethic you admire so much. however, it's evident (from interviews/tweets) that steve is remorseful, apologetic and embarrassed of his past. at any rate, the 'cancellation' of someone makes sense to me when you're making an effort to remove/de-platform someone who is knowingly abusive from an active community, but otherwise... i feel that it's an individual decision whether you engage with or consume the person in question's media or engage with them in business while understanding/forgiving their past mistakes. actions speak louder than words as far as i'm concerned, and professionally/untoward others, steve has showed a great deal of selflessness. idk. for someone who is in constant work with a broad palette of artists, i think it would be quickly become evident if they were a truly bad person. i am trying to understand and navigate these things.
― maelin, Monday, 13 February 2023 21:27 (one year ago) link
Looks like he's doing some sort of ... guest podcast?
https://www.nts.live/shows/steve-albini-residency
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 18:23 (ten months ago) link
cheer accident!
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 17 May 2023 18:28 (ten months ago) link
Episode last week with Robert Rolfe Feddersen was hugely entertaining but Steve doesn't like Steely Dan so I didn't mention it
― chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 19:59 (ten months ago) link
that just appears to be regular NTS twin-streaming, not a podcast?
― least said, sergio mendes (sic), Wednesday, 17 May 2023 20:11 (ten months ago) link
internet radio y'all
(should be archived on mixcloud though)
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 May 2023 21:16 (ten months ago) link
This is a long but really good Twitter thread. Rather than embed, I will quote.
Thread: I work in an arcane field where the job requires specific technical knowledge, built on a ladder of understanding and breakthroughs going back over 100 years. It's not immunology but it's not nothing.
A couple decades ago there was a christian panic about something the press started calling "backmasking," an outgrowth of the similarly absurd panic about subliminal messaging and advertising, about which I could also talk about for too long but will not now.
According to the panic, Satanists were hiding messages in music by recording secret messages, only audible if the music were played backwards, but somehow still perceivable and persuasive on listeners. Such messages were blamed for drug abuse, teen suicides and cult behavior.
This became a Big Deal. There were articles and TV shows about it, proponents mounted conferences, did public demonstrations and lectures, and eventually there were a core of believers who were convinced of the problem and adamant in outrage.
There is an excellent inclusion of this in J0hn D@rni3ll3's excellent novel Wolf in White Van. Of course people like me, professionals in the recording field intimately familiar with the process and technology of recording, knew it was all horseshit.
Regardless, "secret messages" retained popular appeal and a few lawsuits were even pursued, one against the band Judas Priest, lent credibility by the passion of the people who believed in it, despite that they had no expertise or evidence, and an unlearned and credulous public.
In order for something to appear on a record, forward or reverse, it would need to be recorded onto the master tape, and debunking it should be as simple as going through the tape track by track and demonstrating that there was no demonic message there.
So this is exactly what Judas Priest did. They played their master tapes in court, showed the track sheets and other documentation, had their engineer testify that he was never asked to record any satanic messages, all that. You would think that would put an end to it but no.
It was actually kinda close. link to Rolling Stone article
As an expert in analog recording, I know there is no way for these things to have been done surreptitiously or other than by the normal methods of recording, but lay people don't know any of that. They could be convinced there was some other, secret, conspiratorial way.
Judas Priest are a good example of why debating the willfully ignorant is a fool's errand. It's expensive and exhausting to have to disabuse people of patent bullshit they are attached to. You have to educate people who do not wish to learn and do not trust you.
You have to start with Maxwell's equations and the theory of electromagnetism, teach them about the persistence of polarity in magnetic domains, explain the mechanics and design of magnetic recorders, the process and handling of masters in a studio and the chain of custody...
for master tapes that represent an investment of sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars. You have to answer their ignorant objections continuously. And in the end they will just shrug and say, "I don't think so," and that will be that. They will remain unconvinced.
Okay, maybe that record didn't have backmasking and secret messages, but what about *this* one, or *this* one, or *this* one. Maybe that master tape didn't have a secret message track, but what about all the tapes we haven't examined?
You say there would be some evidence of the recording having been done, but couldn't it be done some other way? I recall a lawyer in the Judas Priest case arguing that the message in question was made as a composite of sounds including the vocal, guitar and hi-hat...
...ie the engineer did a cryptic reverse-speech soundscape collage, hidden within the apparently-normal recording of a rock band, for the purpose of inducing teen-agers to commit suicide. Every aspect of that argument is beyond absurd, yet it had its day in court. Literally.
So this fact-averse mindset persists, whether about evolution, vaccine efficacy, gun control or cryptic satanism. No matter how thoroughly an absurdity is shown to be bullshit and nonsense, its advocates will insist that didn't happen.
Indulging the "DEBATE ME!" shitheels does nothing to further the truth. It is exhausting because its purpose is to exhaust you and no credible person should do it.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 18 June 2023 19:19 (nine months ago) link
The evolution of Steve Albini: ‘If the dumbest person is on your side, you’re on the wrong side’
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side
― Portsmouth Bubblejet, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 08:02 (seven months ago) link
premise flawed, surely even dumb people believe that Zeppelin rules
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 11:35 (seven months ago) link
the evolution of a man approaching retirement & belatedly realizing stuff most of the rest of us figured out by age 13
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 12:49 (seven months ago) link
To paraphrase Spinal Tap, Albini has moved on from a state of arrested development to the preserved moose stage of his career.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 13:02 (seven months ago) link
tl;dr
― Blecch on Blecch (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 13:03 (seven months ago) link
Lol JiC
― Blecch on Blecch (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 13:04 (seven months ago) link
It's a good summary, that piece, though I raised an eyebrow at "Surfer Rosa" described as having a "radio-friendly sheen."
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 13:20 (seven months ago) link
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Tuesday, August 15, 2023 7:49 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
i feel like he can't win, if he doesn't do the contrition thing, he's a piece of shit, if he does he should have done it earlier.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:16 (seven months ago) link
He should have done it earlier, but I'm glad he's done it.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:24 (seven months ago) link
If he's good enough for Kim, he's good enough for me.
It's not just that he's come clean about his bullshit, he actively works to help people. He's been delivering Christmas presents to needy kids for twenty something years and who knows what else he's done that he doesn't talk about.
It's pretty easy to write someone off and he's not a perfect person, but he's working on it a lot harder than most people.
― Cow_Art, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:25 (seven months ago) link
xp sure i agree 100%. i guess thats the corner you paint yourself into after 40ish of writing & saying bigoted stuff.
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:29 (seven months ago) link
*40ish years
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:32 (seven months ago) link
He may be a good guy now, but he just Posts Too Hard, IMO. Like he hasn’t outgrown that “certain type of guy” urge to authoritatively proclaim his opinion on various topics, in a way that personally grates. In the brief time I spent on Bluesky, running into “Albini as main character” wuz an early indication that it wasn’t the place for me.
― Nonhuman biologics enthusiast (morrisp), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 14:57 (seven months ago) link
One of the weirdest (and amusing to me) Albini beefs was with math.Not math rock, but math.He really did not agree that 0.999... is equal to 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999...Like even when confronted with proofs I think he still stuck to his position on aesthetic grounds.
I hope his personal reconciliation project still leaves room for keeping funny beefs going.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 15:36 (seven months ago) link
I mean he's always beefed with math. Have you not heard New Number Order?
― imago, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 15:41 (seven months ago) link
is everyone here familiar with the incredibly creepy shit he wrote in that german tour diary? i don't wanna go into specifics here as it's really dark, but you can google it if you like. i know he's taken ownership of a lot of the sketchy shit he did and said when he was younger, but i don't think he's ever addressed that and it's probably the most disturbing thing i've read about him. maybe he has addressed it, maybe it was just him being as provocative as possible but idk
― spellbound dogfighter (milo), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 15:47 (seven months ago) link
My recollection of reading that diary is Albini as narrator is uncharacteristically taken aback with a tone of "this is some fucked up shit" even when he's an active participant.
In the more funny beefs column in the same diary, he didn't like Robocop because it wasn't dumb enough.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 16:08 (seven months ago) link
The original or remake?
― Nonhuman biologics enthusiast (morrisp), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 16:11 (seven months ago) link
he didn't like Robocop
So much for Albini's rehabilitation.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 16:13 (seven months ago) link
Possibly the legendary tour diary is linked elsewhere on this thread, but anyway you can have a chucklesome read of it here:https://web.archive.org/web/19990220185254/http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~cwb2900/www/BBDiary.txt
― the phantom flim-flammer (Matt #2), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 16:14 (seven months ago) link
I linked it a while back, it's definitely a big part of his contrition nowadays
― imago, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 16:16 (seven months ago) link
OTM. This alone is far more than most people I know, but he's very politically active around Chicago, doing shit for the common good.
(I thought this PSA from a few years back was hilarious. Never would've pictured him doing something like this.)
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 19:42 (seven months ago) link
*far more than what most people I know generally do
its fun to find the limits of which people do and dont receive grace
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 22:03 (seven months ago) link
His big thing today (and my fault for not avoiding the discourse on Bluesky) is how terrible all music on the radio sounded in the 80s (“a bestiary of shit sound”); with side notes on why he hates Prince and the Rolling Stones.He’s just so much That One Guy we’ve probably all known or worked with; and it bums me out to see such takes rewarded with so many eager responses rather than regarded with a shrug. But I the music conversation on social media is generally “take”-based, so he fits right in as a main character I guess.
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 02:42 (six months ago) link
(if his reasons for hating Prince and the Rolling Stones were interesting, it might be different, but it’s just “bad music,” etc.)
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 02:48 (six months ago) link
I think I’m just mildly triggered by dudes who very bluntly express “this is terrible, I hate it” opinions with little or no analysis (or interest in actually *talking* about it), and you can sense how much they relish doing it.
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 02:52 (six months ago) link
Im always reticent to express my extreme admiration for Steve Albini because his results, aesthetically, differ so extremely from the results of my own work, but his commentaries about music biz and methodology have informed me more bluntly and effectively than any other individual; I’ve maintained a no-royalties policy on collaborative work my entire life, for example. Nitpicking the digressions of an aging individual to find the cracks and break the pottery does not appeal to me in the least
― Snoopy is a cat, who lives in a cage (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, 3 September 2023 03:32 (six months ago) link
Hmm I want to go into this more bc this feels like an unusually uncritical approach to someone who’s made this a cornerstone of his rhetorical approach for much of his career (and in more harmful ways in the past)
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Sunday, 3 September 2023 03:45 (six months ago) link
Hating Prince is a capital crime in Minnesota iirc
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 3 September 2023 03:52 (six months ago) link
I'm guessing he just heard a Don Henley song in the CVS this morning and decided to be a crank about it. I've done worse.
― ⓓⓡ (Johnny Fever), Sunday, 3 September 2023 03:52 (six months ago) link
Someone's going to emergency, the other's going to ILX
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 3 September 2023 03:53 (six months ago) link
Because we can't embed bsky posts...
https://i.imgur.com/gJBCT3D.jpg
― ⓓⓡ (Johnny Fever), Sunday, 3 September 2023 03:55 (six months ago) link
I don't know about the others, but I got the sense Albini's Prince-hate was informed more by Prince apparently beating women. There's a video where he's doing some weird commencement speech and he sort of randomly drops that in there, but that section was scrubbed and I always wondered if he walked that back or the venue did.
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:04 (six months ago) link
Fwiw, here’s his elaboration on Prince:https://i.imgur.io/KMb0AgG_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:10 (six months ago) link
…and for completeness (since I mentioned both), the Stones:https://i.imgur.io/lSH8YSg_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:15 (six months ago) link
It’s the snidely maximalist rhetorical flourishes that set me off, more than the opinions themselves (his take on ’80s production techniques could obv even be “interesting,” if it weren’t delivered in a way that just makes me think, “OK, man”).
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:19 (six months ago) link
fwiw he elsewhere scorns prince as being a shitty person and domestic abuser
which . . .
― mookieproof, Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:25 (six months ago) link
Music journalism, 1986: "The "R#peman" vocalist took time out from recording "Pray I Dont Kill You F#gg#t" with his "Run N#gg#r Run" project to express his distaste for Prince's attitudes towards women."
― everything, Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:30 (six months ago) link
The true irony is that a lot of Electrical Audio's gear is from the 80's. Especially studio B
― bbq, Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:32 (six months ago) link
God, you guys
If he posted here you’d be like “ban St3ve Alb1ni” and be done with it
― Snoopy is a cat, who lives in a cage (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:32 (six months ago) link
As a business consultant for lower tier musicians, let him speak. As any kind of critic- musical social or political, he has no cred.
― everything, Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:42 (six months ago) link
As a rock (or music in general) critic, he just doesn’t have any really interesting takes even when I agree (as with his Steely Dan tweet and I’m sympathetic to hating the sound of ‘80s radio). His stance on everything is entirely predictable in the mode of early ‘80s record store guy.
Henry Rollins is the same sort of cranky guy but when he talks about music he’ll start praising plenty of stuff that doesn’t slot into the outward appearance of hardcore mook.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:51 (six months ago) link
Litigating Steve Albini relitigating Prince to relitigate Steve Albini
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 3 September 2023 04:52 (six months ago) link
Sidebar from Old Man Tweets at Cloud --The Paul Giamatti show Billions latest episode inexplicably opens with a Shellac song. I wonder if they took Albini at his word that he'd prefer people not ask for his permission to use his music and do whatever they want with it as long as he doesn't have to get involved, and what the rest of the band might have to say about that.
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 3 September 2023 05:36 (six months ago) link
Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp) at 3:52 3 Sept 23I think I’m just mildly triggered by dudes who very bluntly express “this is terrible, I hate it” opinions with little or no analysis (or interest in actually *talking* about it), and you can sense how much they relish doing it.
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 3 September 2023 06:25 (six months ago) link
Sidebar from Old Man Tweets at Cloud --
I believe he was skeeting at the cloud, technically.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 3 September 2023 09:10 (six months ago) link
― Snoopy is a cat, who lives in a cage (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, September 3, 2023 12:32 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
I have no patience whatsoever for this dude
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 3 September 2023 11:17 (six months ago) link
Why on earth would anybody expect Albini to like Prince or Madonna? His original post was about hating 80s popular radio, which, of course he hates. He lists the instruments that he feels makes it sound like shit from a production standpoint.
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:11 (six months ago) link
Not about expecting him to like them, more about having to hear about it and the way he says it.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:26 (six months ago) link
You have the choice of ignoring Steve Albini's social media presence
― I spent too long trying to write sensible SF (Matt #2), Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:30 (six months ago) link
Albini: Wrong about some things. otm about some things. Contains multitudes of cranky dudes.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:35 (six months ago) link
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:39 (six months ago) link
He does not! Yes I wish he'd stick to techie/industry subjects but he was cranky in his 20s so hardly likely to change now. Better this than some smarmy twat who treats everyone like shit in private, have known people like that and it's not pretty.
― I spent too long trying to write sensible SF (Matt #2), Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:46 (six months ago) link
I’m sympathetic to hating the sound of ‘80s radio
― papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, September 3, 2023 12:51 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Same! I've always hated it too and actually glad he's laid out the recipe there for reference. Seemed like the point was originally to comment on the techie aspect.
― But his face would not turn into hot Kirby (Evan), Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:49 (six months ago) link
I treat albini like some guy I know who only listens to 90s German techno (like Tresor and almost nothing else), he is sound and interesting to listen to on almost any subject but you just wish he would learn to stfu about music he doesn't like.
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 3 September 2023 12:52 (six months ago) link
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 September 2023 13:01 (six months ago) link
I deeply resent his masculinist alpha nerd persona and the permission he gave to a generation of indie boys to indulge their worst selves - I relish every opportunity to take shots at him now since people were afraid to do so for ages because he and his fans were so toxic
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 13:05 (six months ago) link
If everything on the radio in the '80s sounded like the Jesus Lizard, he would probably consider it the best sounding decade in the history of music. The dude has changed his mind about a lot of things, but he's really never wavered from his ideal studio sound, and hates most stuff that deviates from it, whether Prince or Steely Dan or whatever. Has he ever had a bad thing to say about '80s Cheap Trick? He'd probably posit them as victims of a predatory industry.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 3 September 2023 13:12 (six months ago) link
all '80s pop would've been immeasurably improved by slathering it in a bass guitar fret-buzz, relegating all low end to the bass drum, and having someone mumble about serial killers over the top, of course.
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Sunday, 3 September 2023 16:23 (six months ago) link
Otm
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 September 2023 16:25 (six months ago) link
The sound of young American testosterone.
i hate to get hermeneutically suspect, but nothing sounds more insecure than the I AM A MONSTER fronting ofboombapboombapbassline stolen off tracy pew“He was so quiet, he always kept to himself, we never even heard him raise his voice.”trebly discordant guitar figureshouting*30years ago i loved that shit - can barely go near it now
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Sunday, 3 September 2023 16:29 (six months ago) link
i thought about doing a 50 point (and i hate this term) "pigfuck" poll, but most of the options were"i'm a lumberjack and i'm ok"
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Sunday, 3 September 2023 16:32 (six months ago) link
One must first determine the boundaries of the pigfuck genre before embarking on such an undertaking.
― I spent too long trying to write sensible SF (Matt #2), Sunday, 3 September 2023 16:41 (six months ago) link
you just wish he would learn to stfu about music he doesn't like.
I don't think 140 characters or whatever is a good medium for it, but I mostly enjoy Albini's petty hatreds and the subsequent awkward interactions
e.g nardwuar: "Why didn't you like MDC?" / albini: "They were stupid and bad."
mackaye: "You gave Rites of Spring a sort of slag" / albini: "yeah, they were awful" / mackaye: "yeah, uh huh" ... "well that's a nice guy even if he wrote a mean review of Rites of Spring which was one of the greatest bands of all time"
Henry Rollins writing in his diary about wanting to beat him up -- also gold! Did they ever have a roundtable together now that they're both of the getting invited to the same conferences stage of life?
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 3 September 2023 17:28 (six months ago) link
When people employ “that pig won’t fuck” as a rhetorical mic-drop, are you persuaded?
― come on barbo let’s go parpo (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 3 September 2023 17:29 (six months ago) link
Having just read Bateman’s glowing analysis of post-Gabriel Genesis in American Psycho, I really want to check out their ‘80s material for precisely its ‘80s-ness.
― avoid boring people, Sunday, 3 September 2023 17:29 (six months ago) link
tbf some of albini's most fruitful production projects have not been macho dudes: Low, PJ Harvey, Breeders, Nina Nastasia ...
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 3 September 2023 17:57 (six months ago) link
That may be, but there’s still something about someone who just can’t keep their tired-ass opinions to themselves and continually expresses them in what is basically a hateful way.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 September 2023 18:11 (six months ago) link
*waits for someone to googletrump with my own tired-ass opinions*
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 3 September 2023 18:12 (six months ago) link
To be fair, most of the time someone's pestering Albini for his opinion on this or that (for Nardwuar that was quite literally the case)
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 3 September 2023 18:20 (six months ago) link
So true, haha. Neotek? If anything he's STUCK in the 80s.
Who doesn't admire the drum sounds he's gotten over the years, Nirvana/Pixies/PJ all rule. I feel like at one point I understood his general (lets call it) anti-80s thing, insofar as, bands shouldn't assigned to some producer they don't know, who vastly alters the way the poor band already sounds (ostensibly what got them signed in the first place), especially if its in service of whatever fancy studio shit came out that month. That's noble and sensible. But at the same time, doesn't Eliminator kind of rule?
― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro), Sunday, 3 September 2023 18:26 (six months ago) link
Tbf I was pretty disturbed by hearing about Prince assaulting Sinead when she first went public with it. Of course there was no follow up from the press or internet or metoo movement at the time and everyone decided to just talk about how brilliant Prince was for the next 30 years.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 3 September 2023 18:27 (six months ago) link
yeah but do you expect me to believe that's albini's actual problem with him
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:13 (six months ago) link
plenty of people have talked / are talking about it ime
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:15 (six months ago) link
maybe not so much in the press because they need their social justice heroes to be clean but plenty of prince fans / ex-fans (including me) have been very critical of his abusive and predatory behaviour
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:19 (six months ago) link
however if albini's diary entries are to be believed he should probably reserve more of that outrage for himself
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:22 (six months ago) link
Saying that Prince is bad music “made uglier by his behavior” feels like kind of a “…and such small portions!” thing… like if he really is so disturbed by reports of Prince’s behavior, he almost seems to minimize that aspect of his objection by tagging it on that way.No one is obligated to like Prince’s music, of course, but it just feels like such a defiantly contrary take (when coming from a writer, performer, and producer of popular music) as to perhaps benefit from further elaboration…
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:28 (six months ago) link
(I guess I mean “contrarian” take)
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:29 (six months ago) link
Really enjoying ILXors doing "physician heal thyself" routines to a guy bemoaning a serial groomer and abuser because he used the no-no word on a Tellus cassette in 1985
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:36 (six months ago) link
what word would that be whiney
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:37 (six months ago) link
do you want to share or are you just bluffing
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:38 (six months ago) link
It is The Worst Word but ... that ... still doesn't make it equivalent to a decades-long pattern of physical and sexual abuse against women unless you're trying to win ad hom points on a message board
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:41 (six months ago) link
I have read albini pre-face turn bragging about his sexual assaults so fuck off
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:49 (six months ago) link
steve has to throw out some controps occasionally like many other people on the internet because I don’t think he enjoys being liked excessively as a person
― mh, Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:51 (six months ago) link
xpost Well fair enough then
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 3 September 2023 19:51 (six months ago) link
I think the weirdness around albini being distinct from the weirdness around other Problematic Acts People Love is basically just about who it is that identifies with him & how with that identification his/their identity is seen as neutral and sympathetic whereas other identities are not
His aesthetic preferences have always been bullshit but I’m also not expecting him to start gushing about Kylie minogue ilm style, I’m ok that he remains consistent in that regard but people should take it much much less seriously / authoritatively
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Sunday, 3 September 2023 20:19 (six months ago) link
Did 20 songs, tried not to include any I worked on but made an exception for Nina. pic.twitter.com/kHPQ0BgZ0W— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) September 4, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 4 September 2023 15:16 (six months ago) link
Okay, now that is the kind of thing I can get behind.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 15:22 (six months ago) link
500 Miles?????!!! LOL!
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 15:30 (six months ago) link
Appliances SFB was such a great band
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 4 September 2023 15:33 (six months ago) link
What's the 20 songs in response to? Also, did he type it up on an analog typewriter?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 September 2023 15:39 (six months ago) link
It's in response to this prompt that has been making rounds on Twitter for the past few days:
Make a 20-track comp of your all-time fav tracks, each artist can only feature once. Not the 'best' songs, the ones that bring instant joy the second you hear the first note, the ones that give other people the best insight into what stirs your soul. Share when ready. #20tracks— Nick Worrall 🎸 (@heathensquirrel) August 20, 2023
― ˈʌglɪɪst preɪ, Monday, 4 September 2023 15:41 (six months ago) link
xp yeah it's an original fender bassman typewriter
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 4 September 2023 15:43 (six months ago) link
Weird that he’s still on Twitter, I assumed he left
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Monday, 4 September 2023 15:44 (six months ago) link
I smell Poll Week 2!
― imago, Monday, 4 September 2023 15:44 (six months ago) link
re: 500 miles & Buddy Holly, Albini somewhat abashedly repped for them before (probably in the context of a "what songs are you ashamed you like" type thread), but I didn't realize he was baring his soul there.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 September 2023 15:45 (six months ago) link
Ashamed of Buddy Holly? What a prat.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 15:51 (six months ago) link
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 15:59 (six months ago) link
lol at original fender bassman
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 16:02 (six months ago) link
It's weird doing a list. Like there's no Specials on there but I fucking love the Specials. How did I make a list of 20 songs and not put "Monkey Man" on there? There's no instrumental music, no Sandy Nelson, no Shadowy Men, no Link Wray, all of which bring a smile to my face.— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) September 4, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 4 September 2023 16:56 (six months ago) link
I think he's also on Bluesky, don't know if there's a difference between what he posts in either place, or his interactions.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 4 September 2023 16:57 (six months ago) link
Yeah, that’s where I encountered him. He seems pretty active there
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Monday, 4 September 2023 17:05 (six months ago) link
(Josh, what’s yr Bluesky handle?)
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Monday, 4 September 2023 17:07 (six months ago) link
right?! maybe in the United States people perceive it differently, but yes, LOL!!
― stirmonster, Monday, 4 September 2023 17:23 (six months ago) link
A bit like the musical equivalent of Braveheart - though not quite that awful.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 17:30 (six months ago) link
That's incredible. What a fucking nerd
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 4 September 2023 17:39 (six months ago) link
500 fucking miles. What a cunt lol
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 4 September 2023 17:40 (six months ago) link
could kind of imagine 500 Miles produced in the same quiet/loud way as The Pixies' Gigantic
― NickB, Monday, 4 September 2023 17:42 (six months ago) link
it's a good song
― mark s, Monday, 4 September 2023 17:55 (six months ago) link
I'm gonny be disagreeing with you on that one, sorry, yin.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:01 (six months ago) link
it’s a great song
― brimstead, Monday, 4 September 2023 18:04 (six months ago) link
brimstead gets it
― mark s, Monday, 4 September 2023 18:05 (six months ago) link
two names i never expected to add to my list of history's greatest monsters but there you go
― NickB, Monday, 4 September 2023 18:07 (six months ago) link
It's not that it's bad (it is bad) but that after all of his huffing and puffing on the 'hard' stuff for decades...it's one hell of a choice.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 4 September 2023 18:10 (six months ago) link
Maybe Steve had a hot cold night out in Ayr one time and the robust vocalisations of the Reid twins forevermore remind him of that special experience? What I really want to know is whether he liked the song in his Big Black days.
― I spent too long trying to write sensible SF (Matt #2), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:10 (six months ago) link
Auchtermuchty, to be precise.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:12 (six months ago) link
Typical of the Proclaimers to come from a place with the most Scottish name ever.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:13 (six months ago) link
... and the hometown of Jimmy Shand to boot! You couldn't make it up.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:14 (six months ago) link
There are a lot of songs that are good songs that I don't want to hear and don't begrudge anyone else digging.
― The Terroir of Tiny Town (WmC), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:14 (six months ago) link
Thought the proper title was “I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)”
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:15 (six months ago) link
Maybe he was thinking of Vanessa Carlton’s “A Thousand Miles” (and only likes half of it)
― Disappointing cantaloupe (morrisp), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:18 (six months ago) link
Once in the late 80s/early 90s a friend and I were walking by The Bottom Line and there was a huge line around the block to get in. We asked who was playing and they told us in what I assumed at the time were Irish accents but of course might have been Scottish “The Proclaimers!” I’m not sure if we even knew who that was at the time. My friend said to me “James Redd, from the size of that line I was sure it was going to be The Rolling Stones playing a secret show or something like that.”
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 18:21 (six months ago) link
I would queue 500 blocks
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:02 (six months ago) link
Alongside 500 Jocks.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:02 (six months ago) link
Think the proclaimers are basically fine, but appreciate that if I were Scottish I would most likely find them unbearable
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:04 (six months ago) link
no true scotsman (could possibly dislike them)
is how i break it down to an extent
― mark s, Monday, 4 September 2023 19:06 (six months ago) link
wonder how harry lauder would go down in 2023, guessing "poorly"
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:15 (six months ago) link
tbf too the Proclaimers twins are prob the biggest selling musicians who also somewhat resemble Steve Albini, facially
― master cushion (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:15 (six months ago) link
Birmingham City fans sing Harry Lauder at every game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― ( X '____' )/ (zappi), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:18 (six months ago) link
@joshinop I don't think there will be much excitement on there from me, but it's always nice to connect!
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 4 September 2023 19:24 (six months ago) link
Proclaimers, Buddy Holly brings to mind the DLR quote "The reason the critics all like Elvis Costello better than me is because they all look like Elvis Costello."
― Terrycoth Baphomet (bendy), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:41 (six months ago) link
500 miles is a great song. I liked it, then I made fun of it and now I’ve gone back around to liking it.
― Cow_Art, Monday, 4 September 2023 19:43 (six months ago) link
dlrelvis costelloeven the proclaimersbut esp buddy holly
alex, the question is "who are artists better than steve albini?"
― you need magical thinking ay my name is david blaine (Hunt3r), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:54 (six months ago) link
Hmm. “500 Miles” sounding pretty good on this listen. Maybe I will try it at karaoke as a way to work on my comedy IRN-BRU accent.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:56 (six months ago) link
Xpost Sorry, it was people Rivers Cuomo thinks he looks like.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:56 (six months ago) link
― you need magical thinking ay my name is david blaine (Hunt3r), Monday, 4 September 2023 19:56 (six months ago) link
if you live in scotland 500 miles is akin to freebird or somesusch, although i'd take freebird over it in a second.
― stirmonster, Monday, 4 September 2023 21:37 (six months ago) link
Do people yell out out “500 Miles!” at every gig by every band in Scotland?
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 4 September 2023 21:41 (six months ago) link
of course.
― stirmonster, Monday, 4 September 2023 21:42 (six months ago) link
Every band in Scotland plays it.
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Monday, 4 September 2023 21:44 (six months ago) link
Then a haggis walks backwards on the stage while a kilted piper plays
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Monday, 4 September 2023 21:49 (six months ago) link
wpm
― you need magical thinking ay my name is david blaine (Hunt3r), Monday, 4 September 2023 21:53 (six months ago) link
I prefer “500/20 Miles” myself
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 22:14 (six months ago) link
500 Miles is brilliant and it's still not one of my favourite Proclaimers songs : )
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 4 September 2023 22:16 (six months ago) link
FWIW I'm pleasantly surprised by his Specials love - I unconsciously (and unfairly) assumed Jamaican or JA-derived music would be off his remit somehow - but then I remembered didn't he also dig UB40 in the early 80s?
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 4 September 2023 22:20 (six months ago) link
Which is the best Proclaimers song in your opinion?
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 September 2023 22:28 (six months ago) link
Probably it's There's a Touch. Though I cannot conceive of it being up ilx's alley at all. Followed by Throw the 'R' Away.
What can I say, their Best Of MVs DVD was foundational stuff for me so it's partly a nostalgia thing but I never 'outgrow' such attractions. I'm quite happy to give some, if not all of the love that Folk Festival pop needs here.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 4 September 2023 22:34 (six months ago) link
Throw The 'R' Away for me
― MaresNest, Monday, 4 September 2023 22:52 (six months ago) link
Based on his taste and his no-no list, I bet Steve is the ultimate "Cabaret Voltaire personally betrayed me after Red Mecca" guy
― Doctor Madame Frances Experimento, LLC", Tuesday, 5 September 2023 19:06 (six months ago) link
lololol
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Tuesday, 5 September 2023 19:21 (six months ago) link
I know he did criticize 80s Wire.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 5 September 2023 21:02 (six months ago) link
I'm with James Redd. I wouldn't call it a favorite, but after listening to it a few times, "500 Miles" sounds like a pretty good single to me.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 00:13 (six months ago) link
I listened to that whole album for the first time the other day, it was pretty solid.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 00:47 (six months ago) link
That album even has its own POLL
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 00:57 (six months ago) link
Do you know what their most recent album is called?
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 01:11 (six months ago) link
He seemed to have kicked up a fuss today amongst Jeff Rosenstock fans
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 01:42 (six months ago) link
I'd tread lightly that's a tough bunch
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 02:08 (six months ago) link
for anyone who came here to see why people are upset and didn't expect a bunch of posts about the Proclaimers
Not often admitted, but merch cuts are 100% negotiable, to the extent that my bands over 40+ years have never, not once, ever paid them. When agents make deals, they don't care about ticket surcharges, merch cut or other leaks; they don't affect their cut. The band has to insist. https://t.co/EoX5fHiz5J— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) September 5, 2023
― Murgatroid, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 02:15 (six months ago) link
Albini and Rosenstock ended up saying nice things about one another, but people were posting that German tour diary
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 02:23 (six months ago) link
When it’s not “venue sells,” how does a venue audit / collect? They won’t let you fold up the table until you show them your books and write them a check for 10% of the cash you took in?
― Midi, Maxi & Efti stan account (morrisp), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 02:42 (six months ago) link
Rosenstock correctly pointing out that Shellac (with a band leader whose day job isn’t Shellac) doesn’t necessarily play by the same rules as most bands.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 02:45 (six months ago) link
Somebody asked him on Bluesky about recording Sunn O))) and his responses were interesting, so I'm pasting them here.
>>Have you done an interview where you discuss the technical aspects of recording SunnO)))? Such a crazy thing to try to capture.
>>It was hard! Rendering subtleties of texture at 130 dB is no joke, and they were discerning about every small detail. Very satisfying to have the playback sound convincing but a lot of work to get there.
>>But what did you do differently than other loud (but not as loud) sessions to capture those subtle textures?
>>It seems like I'm ducking the question but there's no shortcut. I listened to each of the amps, found a mic that suited each one, maintained phase and polarity between them, listened and adjusted on a per-song basis, sometimes swapping out the whole arsenal, used ambient sound judiciously...
>>Some mics I might have used at lower volume simply couldn't cope, some were surprisingly okay with it. It was not just the loudest thing ever recorded in the studio, it was the loudest thing I've ever witnessed. The whole building was vibrating and it's a pretty sturdy building.
>>Any particular standouts in the representing-high-volume dept (asking for myself)? I assume it would be unhealthy for most ribbon mics...
>>Unless a note hits the resonant frequency of the ribbon (typically quite low, but not impossible) modern ribbons (AEA, Beyer, Royer) can handle pretty high spl, and some shorter old school ribbons (RCA 74, BK5) do just fine as well. I know I used some but without my notes I have no idea which atm.
>>Is it even possible to evaluate the live sound with actual human ears? Or was it mostly about test recordings and iterating mic choice and placement?
>>Oh, the sound in the room, the live sound was what we were shooting for. Steve and Greg would spend quite some time dialing in a precise sound for each piece, and that was that. Loud or quiet, first task of an engineer is to listen to something and make a recording to recreate that sense memory.
― read-only (unperson), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 04:19 (five months ago) link
Gibby f'n hates Steve Albini!
https://instagram.com/underdoser?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Anyone know what Steve said about the Buttholes recently?
― kurt schwitterz, Monday, 6 November 2023 19:47 (four months ago) link
probably mad about the disrespect shown here:
Been thinking about this picture of Steve Albini playing guitar while wearing an upside down Butthole Surfers t shirt. pic.twitter.com/tn1kWwJMS4— Father Sean Misty (@seanieviola) October 6, 2019
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 6 November 2023 19:52 (four months ago) link
He looks like Martin Starr in Freaks & Geeks.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 6 November 2023 19:56 (four months ago) link
When a Butthole Surfers shirt is being worn upside down, that is a signal that there's distress in the butthole.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:04 (four months ago) link
Gibby also hangs out with Michael Stipe
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:05 (four months ago) link
I mean Johnny Depp (I always get them confused)
Damn... I never heard of that tour diary excerpt.
― More skin on 'Love Boat' (morrisp), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:06 (four months ago) link
that's a really disgusting passage
though...gibby seems like a dude who might not want his own history under a microscope
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:07 (four months ago) link
Huh, would have expected Albini to be a Surfers fan.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:19 (four months ago) link
There's a Pitchfork interview from 2015 where Albini and Ian Mackaye enthuse about the Butthole Surfers. Not sure what's happened since then.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:21 (four months ago) link
A lot of anti-Butthole lines were publicly drawn in the lawsuits between Buttholes and Touch & Go, with fellow bandmate Santiago Durango as T&G's lawyer(!)I imagine the antipathy hasn't gotten any better since then. Even in the reminiscing interviews with Albini/MacKaye, there's always a disappointment expressed at what buttholes the Buttholes became.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 6 November 2023 20:27 (four months ago) link
The Butthole Surfers' '80s catalog is some of the most amazing music ever barfed out under the heading of "rock," and they were incredible live back then, but would I want to hang out in a room with any of them under other circumstances? I don't think so.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:32 (four months ago) link
there was an extensive Kramer interview covering, in part, his tenure in the Surfers, but it appears to have been scrubbed from the internet, it was the defunct believermag dot com site
lots of harrowing Gibby madness documented
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:36 (four months ago) link
taking sides: chilling with peak insanity Gibby vs peak asshole Albini
― Cow_Art, Monday, 6 November 2023 20:38 (four months ago) link
there was an extensive Kramer interview covering, in part, his tenure in the Surfers, but it appears to have been scrubbed from the internet, it was the defunct believermag dot com sitelots of harrowing Gibby madness documented― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, November 6, 2023 12:36 PM (four minutes ago)
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, November 6, 2023 12:36 PM (four minutes ago)
this one?https://www.thebeliever.net/logger/three-questions-for-kramer/
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:42 (four months ago) link
thank you, yes! a great read
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:45 (four months ago) link
This is no contest, I wouldn’t even want to hang with kinder gentler current Albini.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:46 (four months ago) link
be careful with using the word "kinder" and "Albini" in the same sentence unless you want to end up on a list
― The SoyBoy West Coast (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 6 November 2023 20:54 (four months ago) link
Gibby is a great guy!
― kurt schwitterz, Monday, 6 November 2023 21:01 (four months ago) link
I've been lurking this thread for years and it suddenly occurred to me that I don't care about this guy or his music at all. Going to feel good to remove this bookmark!
― Sam Burnt-Friedman (beard papa), Monday, 6 November 2023 21:10 (four months ago) link
Posted this in an Nirvana thread, but there was a pretty great interview last week on Conan Needs a Friend w/Albini, Grohl and Novoselik. Worth it to hear them recollect Albini impersonating Cobain and prank calling Gene Simmons, Eddie Vedder and Evan Dando during the In Utero sessions.
― bookmarkflaglink (Darin), Monday, 6 November 2023 21:26 (four months ago) link
omg Whiney
― as a lyricist he is from hell (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 6 November 2023 23:44 (four months ago) link
That Kramer article was a good read.
Mike Judge should do a Butthole Surfers movie ala "Tales from the Tour Bus". It is a Texas story.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 03:07 (four months ago) link
Albini's one of the few guys who I think actually figured out a way to atone for his past edgelordy behavior so I'm not sure what Gibby is getting at here. everyone knows he used to be like that
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 03:17 (four months ago) link
Kramer article was indeed awesome, thanks.
― My Prelapsarian Baby (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 15:19 (four months ago) link
Kramer should write a book, preferably including a lengthy ranting chapter about the messy Bongwater break-up. Then another chapter devoted entirely to analysing the work of The Tinklers.
― like being cornered by a drunk gareth southgate (Matt #2), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 15:24 (four months ago) link
I'd love a chapter about The Tinklers!
― ( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 15:28 (four months ago) link
Holy shit, I was going to just skim it but there is so much there! Someone should Kickstart a Kramer memoir.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 15:29 (four months ago) link
haha glad everyone is enjoying that interview, it is indeed great
"I. Fucking. Quit. This. Stupid. Band"
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 16:15 (four months ago) link
the best thing i've read in a while
― ꙮ (map), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 21:41 (four months ago) link
I love things where the person has visited several different musical worlds and is able to describe the feeling of being in each one. Fred Wesley’s Hit Me Fred: Recollections of a Sideman and Joe Boyd’s White Bicycles both come to mind.
― My Prelapsarian Baby (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 21:53 (four months ago) link
the bit at the end about gibby et al being solid gold and not being afraid of death was righteous and made me choke up a little. also love how he is awestruck by paul's guitar solo at the oil kids concert. also he looks pretty blazed in that photo with caetano veloso lol.
― ꙮ (map), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 22:02 (four months ago) link
xpost OTM, those books rule.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 22:12 (four months ago) link
Wonder if Gibby has read page 281 of Miki Berenyi's book.
― Andy K, Thursday, 9 November 2023 00:09 (four months ago) link
Why, what's on page 281 of Miki Berenyi's book?
― like being cornered by a drunk gareth southgate (Matt #2), Thursday, 9 November 2023 01:15 (four months ago) link
A poop smear
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 November 2023 01:49 (four months ago) link
That Kramer article is all time, thanks for sharing. Got some butthole educating to do from here
― H.P, Thursday, 9 November 2023 06:45 (four months ago) link
Educate your butthole.
― The land of dreams and endless remorse (hardcore dilettante), Thursday, 9 November 2023 18:47 (four months ago) link
BhD
― m0stly clean (Slowsquatch), Thursday, 9 November 2023 21:47 (four months ago) link
Psychic... Powerless... Another Man's SAT
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 November 2023 21:50 (four months ago) link
that BH section of the article is like um, dirtbag rocknroll Blood Meridian. i never messed with BH they didn't seem like they were for me maybe i should investigate
i saw rick moody and was "no way THAT rick moody"? ha i lived through his ice storm and he name checks my mom's 70s store in it, freaked out my 1993 brain
― digital chirping and whirring (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 14:31 (four months ago) link
As part of the annual WPRB Christmas charity drive, Neal Markowski recorded a four-track EP of Christmas-themed Big Black covers that are brilliant and hilarious. Proceeds go to the One Tail at a Time Pet Mutual Relief Fund, a charity that helps people out with pet-related expenses.
Holiday Cheer Where You Need It
https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3520026086_16.jpg
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Monday, 25 December 2023 15:43 (two months ago) link
Great stuff
― nxd, Monday, 25 December 2023 19:32 (two months ago) link
christmas tree aroundthat's something to do
― mookieproof, Monday, 25 December 2023 23:27 (two months ago) link
See, see, see I’m a drummer boy. I kill what I eat.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 25 December 2023 23:52 (two months ago) link
Pretty good Liz Phair zinger from a 1994 Guitar World interview:
GW: Producer Steve Albini seems to be conducting an inquisition, dissing first Nirvana, and Courtney Love, then your friends in Urge, and now he calls you a “slut”. Any comments?PHAIR: Oh, what does it matter? Supposedly he has some kind of metal plate in his shin, and one of these days…GW: The electromagnetic principle?PHAIR: Yeah, I keep waiting for him to attract lightning or something.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 01:37 (two months ago) link
and now he calls you a “slut”
ilm hero steve albini
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 7 January 2024 02:09 (two months ago) link
Referring to this letter I imagine
https://chicagoreader.com/news-politics/three-pandering-sluts-and-their-music-press-stooge/
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 7 January 2024 02:18 (two months ago) link
well actually he is only using slut metaphorically to refer to the selling out of the indie scene so it's not misogyny is an actual argument I have seen people make online
I hope he dies soon
― Left, Sunday, 7 January 2024 02:22 (two months ago) link
He seems like an alright guy these days and I can forgive his past mistakes as he seems apologetic for most of it — plenty of people were edgelords in the 90s and 00s (go back and look at some of the early posts on this very message board for easily obtained evidence) and at least he owns up to it instead of pretending it never happened. Also, he does indeed use “slut” to describe Liz Phair, Smashing Pumpkins, and Urge Overkill simultaneously in the sense that that they brazenly commercialize their music in order to sell records. Sure, that usage still might not fly today but it’s also not what might get implied out of context.
― Slim is an Alien, Sunday, 7 January 2024 04:07 (two months ago) link
Well he sneers that Phair is “more talked about than heard” (as opposed to, what, Big Black?) – so I guess she can’t win if it’s bad she also tries to sell records(?)Anyway, Wyman (in the column he’s responding to) writes:
Few would question what I guess would be called the artistic integrity of any of these acts: yet they’ve avoided (Phair), criticized (Pumpkins), or loudly abandoned (Urge) the harshness, vontrariness, and machismo of the underground in favor of a professed desire to sell records.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 04:25 (two months ago) link
And y'know, I can get that the Pumpkins may not have been his bag, but he can't deny that the band and Vig put a hella lotta work into an album that was meant to express something personal (to Corgan) and connect w/people... you'd think he would at least respect that(?) And even if he thinks Phair is "a fucking chore to listen to," isn't she a genuinely "independent" artist expressing herself in a unique way? (I have no idea what "a persona completely unrooted in substance" means.)
It really feels like it's all about aesthetics to him. Like, it's just b/c they're not loud & abrasive(?)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 04:32 (two months ago) link
As a side note, it's kinda funny to compare what Corgan said the same year – "People don't fall in love to Pavement... they put on Smashing Pumpkins or Hole or Nirvana, because these bands actually mean something to them" – with Albini dismissing the Pumpkins as "stylistically appropriate for the current college party scene, but ultimately insignificant." It's like this recursive pit of "authenticity"-posturing.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 04:44 (two months ago) link
That posturing was everywhere in those days and it suuuuuucked
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Sunday, 7 January 2024 05:05 (two months ago) link
replaced by “identity” posturing. harder to fake (?), still unreliable, still annoying.
― a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Sunday, 7 January 2024 13:02 (two months ago) link
For anyone curious, here's Wyman's belated 2013 follow-up to that whole brouhaha:
https://music.newcity.com/2016/03/31/liz-phair-steve-albini-me-the-true-story-of-1993-the-greatest-goddamn-year-in-chicago-rock-history/
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 13:11 (two months ago) link
In January 1994 Liz Phair is already accused of "commercializing" her music?
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 January 2024 13:23 (two months ago) link
It was a different time, lol. I actually remember all that stuff really well, since it was my first year here. It was the peak of "sell out" snobbery. (Which I'm going to posit ended in 2001, after Jonathan Franzen refused to promote "The Corrections" on Oprah.)
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 13:53 (two months ago) link
the thing to remember is how much many of us really hated that music that seemed real great to everybody else, esp. Urge & the Pumpkins. I still hate that music! Viscerally! when people say eg
the band and Vig put a hella lotta work into an album that was meant to express something personal (to Corgan) and connect w/people
like, ok, but to me that music is utterly dire, just the worst shit in the world. awful -- and it's what we get when the underground surfaces -- that, or, even worse, Urge? for people who'd been digging a pretty killer Chicago scene, that sucked, and that was I think the crux of SA's letter to Wyman: "Artists who survive on hype are often critic’s pets. They don’t, however, make timeless, classic music that survives trends and inspires generations of fans and other artists. There are artists in Chicago doing just that, but you don’t write about them. You save your zeal instead for this year’s promo fixtures." There was a lot of interesting shit goin on in Chicago, but the people who got paid...were BC & Nash Kato. Awful! His dismissal of Phair I think is blinkered by the hype, which was pretty pitched, although I knew a lot of people who thought the Girly-Sound tapes were great and the stuff she did with that material was dull. But Urge Overkill and the Smashing Pumpkins, hating on them is God's work, they're still the worst
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:05 (two months ago) link
something about new left radicalism disintegrating into various isolated local fiefdoms more concerned with policing themselves than in social transformation, and the attendant values into empty and arbitrary signifiers of taste and power and identity and belonging and exclusion
and then I guess something about the final victory of neoliberalism in sweeping all that away too and the associated economic precarity making all this integrity posturing look like the sort of elite indulgence which was probably always a big part of it anyway
― Left, Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:10 (two months ago) link
idk enough about those bands and their music to hate or defend them but albini's own projects are some really dire colourless shit which I predict will continue not to connect with people in the way that phair's music will (I have soured on her personally lately for a few reasons but her work will continue to be generative and albini will only ever come off worse in spite of his deathbed conversions)
― Left, Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:16 (two months ago) link
For anyone curious, here's Wyman's belated 2013 follow-up to that whole brouhaha:Josh, thanks for this link, that was really interesting to read.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:29 (two months ago) link
I'm a bit more pleased this kind of policing is having a semi-revival (in the form of a suspiciousness of "industry plants" or whatever), and I'd argue rather necessary but it's really weird that re: albini vs urge, it's rarely brought up that they used to be roommates (who did dire colorless shit together)!
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:35 (two months ago) link
for people who'd been digging a pretty killer Chicago scene, that sucked, and that was I think the crux of SA's letter to Wyman: "Artists who survive on hype are often critic’s pets. They don’t, however, make timeless, classic music that survives trends and inspires generations of fans and other artists. There are artists in Chicago doing just that, but you don’t write about them.JCLC – Wyman’s argument in that long piece is that he wrote about such artists constantly, and Albini was attacking a strawman by claiming he was hyping up bands like the Pumpkins (whom he didn’t even praise in the column SA was responding to), Urge (whom he apparently thought were great, for reasons unconnected from any commercial potential), and Phair (who was pretty marginal in “commercial” terms, and whom Wyman was into since she was a nobody). Is that response accurate? Honestly asking…
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:38 (two months ago) link
(As a non-Chicagoan who only knows Urge from that corny Pulp Fiction cover, it seems weird to see them discussed as some sellout band. Looks like they had a minor rock hit?)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:39 (two months ago) link
"Sister Havana," yeah.
Thanks for this Wyman piece. Excellent reading.
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:46 (two months ago) link
dire colorless shit
Oh, it had a color, lol.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:02 (two months ago) link
Xxpost I definitely knew of UO as an underground act in the late 80s. I don’t know if they were any good then, but a lot noisier.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:05 (two months ago) link
Albini produced an Urge album iirc, and said they didn’t know what the hell they were doing
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:06 (two months ago) link
Yeah, Wyman goes into detail in that piece about how those guys used to be tight, and then had a falling out (same with Wyman himself, apparently… It’s worth doing a Ctl-F for an incident involving Courtney Love)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:12 (two months ago) link
UO and SP have always sucked, I was there
Liz Phair has always been great
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:16 (two months ago) link
corgan is an insufferable weirdo but smashing pumpkins were still a top tier 90s rock band, i'd easily take them over every single grunge act for instance. of course albini would hate them though lol, especially with corgan being pretty unashamedly open about his commercial ambitions
― ufo, Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:20 (two months ago) link
a top tier 90s rock band
hard disagree, sorry
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:22 (two months ago) link
JCLC – Wyman’s argument in that long piece is that he wrote about such artists constantly, and Albini was attacking a strawman by claiming he was hyping up bands like the Pumpkins (whom he didn’t even praise in the column SA was responding to), Urge (whom he apparently thought were great, for reasons unconnected from any commercial potential), and Phair (who was pretty marginal in “commercial” terms, and whom Wyman was into since she was a nobody).
it's hard not to revert into the heavy sectarianism of the time on this -- I have a FB friend who, when posting music he hated in the 80s, will say "I despised this then, but there was a war on" -- and it's a silly way to think of things, of course, but it's also metaphorically accurate. For people reading MRR, mapping out tour routes, booking their own shows, resisting the norms of the industry, the question of what the underground looked like, what it meant, what its values were, these seemed pressing. (Plus, the people reacting were very young, and while they were good at not sounding naive, young people are naive.)
With that sort of "I tend to inhabit a person whose opinions I no longer entirely share" caveat in place, the Wyman piece, while a great read, still seems full of things that bear scrutiny. For example:
Before Nirvana, pressure had been building a long time. Back in the 1980s, there were all these cool bands—the Pixies, Sonic Youth, the Replacements, Hüsker Dü, Black Flag, Fugazi—and gazillions more lost to history. Some of the music was tuneful, a subspecies of mainstream rock or even pop; some was harsher, with subject matter to match.Here’s the thing, though. Whatever the sound, none of this stuff got played on commercial radio. Period.
Here’s the thing, though. Whatever the sound, none of this stuff got played on commercial radio. Period.
Right -- that was the point of the underground: trying to build something different, avoiding commercial radio. "We lost the war," as my FB friend would put it -- few conceive of making less money and finding a smaller audience a price worth paying for underground purity now. But on our side, then, MRR was running pieces about, e.g., EMI's connection to the weapons industry. The whole world of mainstream success was regarded with severe skepticism, and it felt like there were other ways to make a living, reach people, and not have to feed that machine. The underground wanted to do things on handshakes and good will. Naive! But when it's working out, it's magic. Wyman is always-already beginning from the proposition "good music should find the largest audience possible." It's a deeply boomer stance, and it is, word for word, what the label guys said when they bought you dinner: "Don't you want your music to be heard by as many people as possible?" But those guys didn't actually mean "your music," they meant "the version of your music we think we can sell people, and pay you 18% per unit on." This stuff really rankled within an underground that was legitimately attempting to conceive of a self-sufficient economy, one involving independent labels, distribution cooperatives, tour routings that straight up did not exist before Black Flag and the Minutemen carved them out of a Thomas guide, 50/50 splits on sales (completely unthinkable on majors then and now; at least one big remaining indie who I know still pays exactly that).
But Wyman's position is, this underground music is actually infiltrating the culture, becoming viable - viability is great! That position was poison to people who sought to protect their scenes and to see them grow into new possibilities. Now, scenes actually can't be protected, they're ephemeral, the thing that actually kills them is time, nothing to be done about that. But for people who were and sometimes still are lifers in the underground, the consolation-prize quality of the music -- Pumpkins, Flaming Lips, what the Buttholes become instead of what the Buttholes were -- that was a bitter pill to swallow, because it's really just good old "nothing gold can stay," you know. So, Wyman's "I was already covering that stuff" is partially accurate, but ideologically, the more likely something was to have mainstream appeal, the more interesting it was to him. That's fine, but within a roiling scene facing centuries-old questions of what happens to scenes over time, it was a position worth interrogating at least, and, usually, attacking.
There's a great deal more in the Wyman piece with which I'd take issue but this I think is the framework that describes the tension.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:35 (two months ago) link
JCLC, what makes Wyman's stance "deeply boomer" as opposed to a combination of "late capitalism" and an artist's ego?
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:41 (two months ago) link
It's the Jann Wenner stance exactly - we're changing the world by taking over the institutions, by putting our guys in the places where the old guard were. This is what the boomers will say to this day, what Wenner said I think in that cancel-me interview -- we changed the world, we changed the culture. Factions within the underground of the time differed on this question, of "changing things from the inside" (very common phrase then, and the one I think of as boomer) vs. "building our own structures" (these did & do tend to rely on already extant structures, whether actual IRL space "structures" like VFW halls or business structures like chains of distribution or the post office). but the boomer stance is absolutely "the system is fine, it's just that the wrong people are running it," imo, and that's Wyman all day, who thinks the good people are in charge once they're putting out records he likes.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:47 (two months ago) link
That makes sense.
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:49 (two months ago) link
"We're replacing Ike with the New Frontier!"
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 January 2024 16:50 (two months ago) link
I remember when it was controversial that Matador signed a distribution deal with Atlantic (where, incidentally, Bettina was working before she started Thrill Jockey). But I've also heard the stories of, say, Husker Du being on tour and unable to find copies of "Zen Arcade" in the shops. (I also know the thrill of, c. this exact period of time, coming across someone with a cache of TMG cassette releases on Shrimper).
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:00 (two months ago) link
It's the Jann Wenner stance exactly - we're changing the world by taking over the institutions, by putting our guys in the places where the old guard were. This is what the boomers will say to this day, what Wenner said I think in that cancel-me interview -- we changed the world, we changed the culture.
But Wyman doesn't say thise(?) He says that Cobain wondered why it wasn't cool to be heard on the radio, like his rock heroes were, etc. I mean, I'm not a boomer myself, and this is exactly how I felt about a band like R.E.M. becoming popular when I was in high school – I thought it was great! And not for anything to do with "changing the culture," but b/c they deserved to be heard by as many ppl as possible.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:05 (two months ago) link
If anything, in that long 2016 piece, Wyman seems (or at least claims to be) totally uninterested in the system that results in records being put out, and is solely focused on the records themselves. I'm sure there's a valid critique of that position, but it's not the Wenner schtick at all.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:06 (two months ago) link
yeah, aero, I think you're reading way more into Wyman than he admitted in his essay -- unless you know him or are referring to other essays. He doesn't even come off particularly starry-eyed or idealistic here.
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:07 (two months ago) link
yeah, aero, I think you're reading way more into Wyman than he admitted in his essay
it could be! I don't know him, but I am sort of rehearsing the feeling "we" (I was very small potatoes at the time) felt about it. I'm beginning from the bit I quoted:
to which I think the scene's response, and one I still agree with, honestly, is: so what? How is that important? When you make this point, do you not assert "it's good to get commercial radio play, bands matter more when they get that" -- which is a bullshit assertion, bands can and did make seismic changes without a single commercial radio spin. Even leaving the indie neighborhood aside, metal, at the same time and in fact a little earlier, was proving the same point: commercial radio doesn't matter to a scene, it's immaterial.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:11 (two months ago) link
Yeah, tbf, when the alt rock thing happened it's not like I upped my radio listening or anything knowing I might hear REM mixed in with Verve Pipe or Candlebox or Marcy Playground.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:16 (two months ago) link
like, and this sort of thing:
The next six months or so, as expectations grew for the release of the album, were delightful. I had the tape and could lord my possession of it over everyone else. I tracked Phair’s every local appearance and delighted in the exasperation I sometimes heard. Phair and I kept talking, always as reporter and subject, and all of the conversations were taped. I knew the record would be a critic’s darling, but in Phair herself you could see the makings of an actual star.
expectations grew...where? among whom? for what, exactly? it's clear (and it's fine! just trying to frame things here) that for him this was an exciting time in which an artist whose work he likes is about to break big. that's a familiar energy, narratively, people dig it. except in the underground, where they hate it, and not because they're jealous, either.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:16 (two months ago) link
I think he says the thing about commercial radio to make his point that Albini is being narrow-minded by disparaging these artists’, well, artistry, and asserting that they’re just trying to hit it big:
If these three artists didn’t have their own sound in their heads, they would have all behaved much differently and recorded much different albums. Urge wasn’t pretending to be grunge; Phair wasn’t pretending to be Madonna; Corgan wasn’t pretending to be the Cure. What I said in the essay was incontrovertible: Here were three artists who had some semblance of artistic integrity, who were trying to make their way in a complex world and displayed the neuroses to prove it.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:22 (two months ago) link
I think it's really a stretch to claim that UO in particular had "some semblance of artistic integrity", they always wanted to be big/make money and was about it
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:24 (two months ago) link
Well I can’t speak to Urge, but we’ve talked on here a lot about how R.E.M. were always very clear that they were aiming big. Does that mean they don’t also have artistic integrity? Aren’t they a definition of a band that found success while maintaining it? Albini seems to think these are mutually exclusive; Wyman (and many of us music fans) don’t…
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:29 (two months ago) link
I disagree with literally your entire worldview, we've done this before
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:31 (two months ago) link
We have(?) InterestingI guess to cement it – to me, it’s self-evident why it would be exciting to see an artist like Phair poised for success; and I can’t wrap my head around the “underground” idea that it would be bad for audiences outside a particular scene to hear great music.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:33 (two months ago) link
probably instructive to read the column to which Albini is responding, Wyman's initial shot across the bow: https://chicagoreader.com/music/not-from-the-underground-1993-in-review-hitsvilles-top-ten/
The line on Chicago’s 1993 contributions to the national pop firmament–Liz Phair, the Smashing Pumpkins, and Urge Overkill–is that they’ve in effect agreed to disagree on musical approaches, making for a fractured “scene” with little cohesion. This is true, but their stylistic differences mask the philosophical ground that unites them and seems likely to influence a second wave of bands from Chicago in 1994: an explicit rejection of much of the insularity that increasingly characterizes underground music and the fringes of underground music in America.
this is probably what sets him off; the conclusion of that graf --
Yet each artist had to grapple with what’s supposed to be a dichotomy between being popular and beeing “alternative.” Once it became apparent that the line between the two was blurring, the rear guard from the underground–which I would define as deliberately nonpop, whereas I guess alternative would be relatively personal music that doesn’t necessarily exclude pop–tried not only to keep them clear, but to make a big deal about which side of the line you were on. This, of course, is bullshit, and these artists took a stand and the resulting heat to prove it.
is the one Albini refers to repeatedly in his letter. I personally still think "the line is blurring" is a false claim -- an alternative is necessarily something other than what's popular, until somebody says "no, 'alternative' is a category" -- but that act doesn't actually "blur the line," is just appropriates actually descriptive language in order to exploit its commercial potential. these, again, are the issues which, for Chicago undeground people in the clubs seeing bands better than the Pumpkins, Urge, & Phair multiple times a week in '93, rankle & inspire overheated responses.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:36 (two months ago) link
like, another way of describing the Chicago scene at that time is there were those who viewed it as a springboard to international fame & success, and those for whom the work, while sometimes happily profitable, is decidedly not that -- for whom the point is largely local. and Chicago, at that time, was right there at the middle the "next Seattle?" lottery candidates, with Wicker Park rents climbing & hip storefronts going in, etc., stuff that wouldn't happen in Wmsburg for several years yet. Wyman found it exciting to be at a nexus like that, to be listening and writing in such a moment. Fair enough! Others liked what was weird and different and non-viable about the scene, and believed to some extent that lines between the mainstream and "what we do" were worth policing.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:40 (two months ago) link
lol speaking of Wicker Park, this seems relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nMPaOEB_QI
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:48 (two months ago) link
I've been listening to a lot of excellent recent "egg punk" and the willful obscurity of many key participants (the song above being a great example) seems like it fits in to this discussion somehow
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:51 (two months ago) link
Also with several noteworthy exceptions we don’t need to trot out to prove me wrong, it was largely a sausage party to use the parlance of the times. Had to say it and I’m not trying to derail but I can’t let it go! The sausage party was all there was unless you had the wherewithal of say Liz Phair and her endurance for tolerating insults. I think that was the article where the author called her a “weird woman in a bar”
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:52 (two months ago) link
yeah there is no denying that at all. it was a deeply, deeply bro scene
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 17:58 (two months ago) link
Might be relevant, might not, that much of the "scene" (as such) in Chicago at the time, from the Albini/Touch & Go crew to the Baffler People's Front, actively pushed back pretty hard at the next Seattle claims, at least as I remember it. A lot of the bands that bore the hipster/snob (I was a snob) brunt did so I suspect because in part they successfully bypassed their gatekeeping to leap to the front of the pack. Where, of course, a lot of the hipsters/snobs didn't want to be, anyway. There was this real dismissal of the usual suspects as being suburban interlopers, or the bands that signed deals being unworthy/untested/unproven (not to diss, I dunno, Fig Dish). I would talk to publicists all the time about Chicago bands, and when I asked where they were from they'd say, like, Naperville.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:01 (two months ago) link
Albini's had a refrain that no, we weren't these anti-success scolds and actually everyone was happy when someone in the scene found success and broader exposure, and even made a point to bring it up in the Conan interview, so is this revisionism? Who were people unreservedly happy about making it big if not the careerists? I'm guessing B-52s? Devo?
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:03 (two months ago) link
(not to diss, I dunno, Fig Dish)
I lol'd
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:08 (two months ago) link
I agree with everything JCLC has said in this thread today, ftr; it tracks 100% with my experiences on the NY/NJ hardcore scene, within the late 80s/early 90s metal scene, and as a distant observer of the NYC underground (Sonic Youth/Pussy Galore/Swans/early White Zombie et al.). The point was absolutely not to "have hit records", not even hit records "on your own terms", whatever the hell that could possibly mean; the point was to make your sound and get it in the hands of the few dozen freaks who wanted/needed exactly that singular weird thing at that time.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:12 (two months ago) link
So how did the scenesters respond to SY’s success?
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:21 (two months ago) link
fwiw afaict liz phair herself never asked to be part of the "scene", never shared its values, was always shameless about wanting success on her own terms and was only kind of accidentally "indie" by virtue of her early songs being weird and lo-fi (unless some of that is her own later revisionism) so the weirdly personal and blatantly gendered reaction from the pigfuckers seems to be based on a category error and maybe some resentment that she seemed to be "bypassing" their whole system
― Left, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:22 (two months ago) link
I agree with that take on Phair, also she got a big early boost from the fanzine community similar to e.g. Daniel Johnston in a "these tapes are great you gotta hear them" way so there was definitely some (deserved) indie cred there
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:23 (two months ago) link
DJ of course is another person who clearly stated their desire for stardom from the get-go
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:24 (two months ago) link
by yawning at Goo and moving on to idk Sebadoh or something, again speaking as someone who was there at the time
hell most of my friends yawned at Daydream Nation!
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:25 (two months ago) link
I did not, I loved that shit, but it wasn't until Dirty that I got fully back on board
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:26 (two months ago) link
"few conceive of making less money and finding a smaller audience a price worth paying for underground purity now."
everybody i know who makes music seems fine with this price. western mass for the indie win! except for Dinosaur. they seem to just get bigger every year. they are neil younging the legacy thing. or Stonesing it. though i doubt anyone i know would use the word "purity" to describe themselves in any way. they just stayed underground. MV + EE for the win!
― scott seward, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:32 (two months ago) link
https://www.discogs.com/release/7770176-The-Coneheads-Colekted-Mix
"This tape will remain in print as long as necessary for 3$. Buying it from any other source for more than 3$ is a waste of your money. Fuck the Discogs nerds, fuck boutique collector culture punk & fuck the Coneheads for not making this sooner. <3 rex inc."
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:33 (two months ago) link
Have:15Want:174
lol listen on youtube like all the kids do these days
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:34 (two months ago) link
I can only speak for myself. I'd heard Sister first, then Confusion Is Sex, then Sonic Death (I traded cassettes with a kid, giving him my copy of Cro-Mags' Age Of Quarrel; each of us thought we got the better of the deal), and when Daydream Nation came out I bought it on CD and it felt like they were getting "big"; I mean, they were on TV! I read about them in Rolling Stone! I saw them open for Neil Young & Crazy Horse! But I didn't like Goo, not because it was on a major label but because it was not as good, and I thought Dirty was fucking terrible, so I just stopped paying attention. But even though SY themselves "graduated" from the NYC underground to being on a major label, the members of Sonic Youth were still around. Thurston Moore would bring noise side projects into the Cooler, or show up at a Peter Brötzmann show at Tonic, or whatever. So they were never cast out as apostates, they were like your friend who gets a good-paying job but he's still your friend.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:37 (two months ago) link
"So how did the scenesters respond to SY’s success?" i listened to Goo once and that was it for me. just started listening to Unsane and Eyehategod and anything on Earache instead i guess. for my noiserock fix. or 90s swans. who ruled.
― scott seward, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:38 (two months ago) link
SY always boosted other lesser-known bands, their love of the underground never went away
so kinda like the friend with a good job who buys you a nice dinner every once in a while, or maybe even gets you a job too
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:40 (two months ago) link
e.g. Thurston and Beck playing freakin MASONNA on 120 minutes circa 1994
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:42 (two months ago) link
Btw, I just listened to the first few tracks of UO's Saturation, and... I guess ya had to be there. (It sure doesn't sound like "Oingo Boingo (Weiners in suits playing frat party rock, trying to tap a goofy trend that doesn’t even exist)"; but nor do I hear the offbeat creativity that Wyman writes about. It's fairly generic rock!)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:43 (two months ago) link
yeah SY people weirdly never lost any cred. cuz they were still into the art thing even back when they were supposed to be rock stars. when i think of all the tiny diy shows that thurston played in the valley here before moving away...nobody needs to do all that unless they are noise lifers. they are liferscenesterhalloffame.
― scott seward, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:43 (two months ago) link
I don't think this is precisely right although I didn't hear about her until she'd already signed to Matador -- but she was on Feel Good All Over, was hanging out with Brad Wood, asked around and got told "Matador is a cool indie label" per her Wikipedia. "Category error" is a good term here though because I think a lot of reaction to her success was from people who had loved her 4-track shit and thought she was part of team indie when she was just doing stuff and looking for her next move, and that's more on them than on her.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:45 (two months ago) link
Fwiw, she sent those tapes everywhere – Teenbeat, etc. Matador was the label that stepped up.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:51 (two months ago) link
I can't really recall the T&G or Drag City crew jumping into any of the early '90s purity debates, but I can't believe either label was neutral. But then, I was surprised at how relatively magnanimous Bruce Adams from Kranky was in his memoir/book "You're with Stupid." Here's a good passage:
The poster at Jim’s Grill told a small part of the tale. It showed Smashing Pumpkins posed at the back of their van, equipment stacked up, with “ON TOUR NOW” emblazoned at the bottom. A white rectangle extends across the bottom of the poster, a standard design element that allowed local promoters to fill in show details. The quartet was doing their roadwork, “getting in the van,” to paraphrase the book by Black Flag’s Henry Rollins. Smashing Pumpkins played the same venues as ostensibly “cooler” bands did. They played for free at the tiny Blackout Records store. Their mix of ’70s arena rock gestures and bubblegum pop was no more or less legit than that peddled at the time by other bands. Why then was animosity directed toward the band? It grew as the Pumpkins’ trajectory upward became more and more apparent.Was it because Billy Corgan was reputed to be “difficult”? He didn’t bother to hide his ambitions, or his artistic control over the band and what he later called an “attack posture.” Smashing Pumpkins were quickly taken on as management clients by Joe Shanahan, owner of the Cabaret Metro club—the venue every band wanted to play. Choice bookings at the club followed. One example was opening for English punk rock legends the Buzzcocks in November 1989, a highly coveted gig. When I was 43, working at Touch & Go, the Minneapolis trio Arcwelder opened for a Smashing Pumpkins show at Metro and were eager to display and mock a list of requests from Corgan posted on the door of the band rooms backstage that began with an entreaty for silence in the dressing rooms before Smashing Pumpkins played. It was a demanding and controlling list, but Arcwelder did accept Corgan’s invitation to open the show. Their house, their rules.Was the source of the hostility that Smashing Pumpkins avoided the gatekeepers? In fact, they jumped the gate altogether, scoring a Sub Pop single and then signing with the quasi-indie Caroline Records and positioning themselves to move up to major label status. There was no lip service offered to any independent ethos, no mea culpas for arena ambitions.Say what you want about the music or Corgan as a person, Smashing Pumpkins presented their fans with carefully considered branding and packaging that obviously reflected Corgan’s interests and aesthetics.
Was it because Billy Corgan was reputed to be “difficult”? He didn’t bother to hide his ambitions, or his artistic control over the band and what he later called an “attack posture.” Smashing Pumpkins were quickly taken on as management clients by Joe Shanahan, owner of the Cabaret Metro club—the venue every band wanted to play. Choice bookings at the club followed. One example was opening for English punk rock legends the Buzzcocks in November 1989, a highly coveted gig.
When I was 43, working at Touch & Go, the Minneapolis trio Arcwelder opened for a Smashing Pumpkins show at Metro and were eager to display and mock a list of requests from Corgan posted on the door of the band rooms backstage that began with an entreaty for silence in the dressing rooms before Smashing Pumpkins played. It was a demanding and controlling list, but Arcwelder did accept Corgan’s invitation to open the show. Their house, their rules.
Was the source of the hostility that Smashing Pumpkins avoided the gatekeepers? In fact, they jumped the gate altogether, scoring a Sub Pop single and then signing with the quasi-indie Caroline Records and positioning themselves to move up to major label status. There was no lip service offered to any independent ethos, no mea culpas for arena ambitions.
Say what you want about the music or Corgan as a person, Smashing Pumpkins presented their fans with carefully considered branding and packaging that obviously reflected Corgan’s interests and aesthetics.
Adams also quotes someone who makes this good observation, contrasting Seattle with Chicago: “Nobody came to Chicago to sound like Smashing Pumpkins or Liz Phair.”
Adams also writes a lot about Phair, btw. As I remember it, a lot of the reaction to Phair was as rockist as it was sexist. That she couldn't sing, or couldn't play, and needed Brad Wood to cobble together her album. Her first released credit I think was singing with Ashtray Boy (who were on Feel Good All Over), and as I heard it it took forever to get her vocal take. That's pretty small potatoes, imo, but maybe accounted for some of the resentment when she took off.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:52 (two months ago) link
Here's Wyman's original piece on Guyville, which he links to in that 2016 essay and says was the first interview w/Phair... it's worth reading the final paragraphs, b/c all of Phair's quotes are really something (and pertinent to the discussion).
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Sunday, 7 January 2024 18:57 (two months ago) link
thanks those are some great quotes
although the whole "is writing about monogamy/romance/hot sex/bad sex feminist?" thing is painfully 90s and I hope we're over that now
I'm sure another factor in the reaction to her was rock dudes being uncomfortable with the mirror she holds up to them in the lyrics. she totally has their number
(I don't know the class dynamics of these scenes but I assume that was also a factor. she's very easy to like in that article but there are some very rich white feminist moments in her memoir which has complicated my fandom a bit. I think albini might actually now be better than her at saying the right PC things and I don't know what to do with that thought)
― Left, Sunday, 7 January 2024 21:03 (two months ago) link
i don't know if there's much of a class distinction between the players in this piece--they're pretty much universally from upper middle class (or higher) backgrounds as far as I can tell
― intheblanks, Sunday, 7 January 2024 21:11 (two months ago) link
rich kids with transgression fetishes vs rich kids who are always already woke because they went to a fancy college
― Left, Sunday, 7 January 2024 21:16 (two months ago) link
My take is: edge lord Albini is an annoying twerp that should stfu and woke Albini is annoying boomer that should stfu.
― kurt schwitterz, Sunday, 7 January 2024 21:18 (two months ago) link
young albini should write an angry noise song about what a p-whipped f-word old albini has become
― Left, Sunday, 7 January 2024 21:22 (two months ago) link
somebody shoulda posted about isentity posturing upthread lol
― a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:22 (two months ago) link
identity
another way of describing the Chicago scene at that time is there were those who viewed it as a springboard to international fame & success, and those for whom the work, while sometimes happily profitable, is decidedly not that -- for whom the point is largely local.
To Left's point above, in my experience, class difference is often a factor here, too. Of course, Liz Phair disproves this theory somewhat
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:23 (two months ago) link
It’s hard to imagine having a coherent underground scene in as big a city as Chicago.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:29 (two months ago) link
Billy Corgan came from a pretty working class family, iirc. Per the Bruce Adams passage, Corgan may be a dork but no one could say the dude didn't hustle for his success.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:38 (two months ago) link
It makes me like a organ a bit more to know that noise scencesters were threatened by his music
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:43 (two months ago) link
Ha Corgan
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:44 (two months ago) link
ah time for the quarterly Albini debate
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:44 (two months ago) link
Within 2 years of that letter he flew to Abbey Road to record Bush, he's fairly pliable with his ethics/taste crossover.
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:51 (two months ago) link
Billy's apparently moved onto threatening the pro-wrestling community -- I wonder who else would have been involved in both besides Bob Mould?
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 7 January 2024 22:53 (two months ago) link
Chris Jericho?
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:00 (two months ago) link
Oh I just remembered CM Punk finagled Albini into doing his horror movie soundtrack.
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:05 (two months ago) link
Rick Rubin is a huge wrestling guy.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:10 (two months ago) link
he's not that big
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:13 (two months ago) link
Fuckers in school telling me, always in the barber shop"Nash Kato ain't 'bout this, Kato ain't 'bout that"My boy a BD on fucking Electtic Audio and themHe, he, they say that slut don't be putting in no workShut the fuck up, y'all ain't know shitAll y'all motherfuckers talkin' about"Nash Kato ain't no hitter, Nash Kato ain't this, Nash Kato a fake"Shut the fuck up, y'all don't deal with Touch & GoY'all know that he got caught with a ratchetShootin' at the police and shitHe been on probation since fuckin' I don't know whenMotherfucker, stop fuckin' playin' him like thatThat band savages out thereIf I catch another motherfucker talking sweet about Nash KatoI'm fucking beatin' they ass, I'm not fucking playin' no moreKnow them sluts roll with Liz Phair and them
― The SoyBoy West Coast (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:43 (two months ago) link
https://www.horrorgeeklife.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Randy-Savage-Vinyl.jpg
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:44 (two months ago) link
Urge Overkill may suck, but "Sister Havana" is a jam imo
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:44 (two months ago) link
They do not suck.
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Sunday, 7 January 2024 23:51 (two months ago) link
scene fragility is always a thing. everyone likes it when people are skipping rocks across the water, people get upset when someone just chucks a big rock in and disrupts what they thought was a calm surface
― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Monday, 8 January 2024 01:32 (two months ago) link
― Pat Methamphetamine Trio (is this anything?) (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 8 January 2024 02:11 (two months ago) link
He has said that the huge fee for the Bush album helped him subsidize Electrical Audio and keep costs lower for Indie bands.
― Pat Methamphetamine Trio (is this anything?) (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 8 January 2024 02:13 (two months ago) link
He’s not selling out.. he’s buying in!
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Monday, 8 January 2024 02:15 (two months ago) link
The Smashing Pumpkins have been recording at Electrical Audio recently fwiw.
― bbq, Monday, 8 January 2024 02:23 (two months ago) link
Sluts
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 8 January 2024 02:27 (two months ago) link
“Recorded and produced at Electric Audio p/b Bush”
― a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Monday, 8 January 2024 02:30 (two months ago) link
The rates are very reasonable!
― bbq, Monday, 8 January 2024 02:35 (two months ago) link
Probably just repeating the points from the the good JCLC posts upthread, but the Wyman pieces linked here really are shot through with a subtext of "Isn't it cool these folks will be rich and famous soon!" that I find off-putting.
― intheblanks, Monday, 8 January 2024 02:36 (two months ago) link
It's not hard to detect a "the local scene is the minor leagues, and I care about the major leagues" tone, which annoys me, but especially when the local scene in question is Chicago in the 90s
― intheblanks, Monday, 8 January 2024 02:37 (two months ago) link
That's not even getting into the whole "Courtney Love tried to lure me into Nash Kato kicking my ass" stuff in the retrospective piece, or referring to Humboldt Park as "Urge Overkill Territory"
― intheblanks, Monday, 8 January 2024 02:42 (two months ago) link
Who could forget the famous Urge Overkill/Latin Kings alliance?
― bbq, Monday, 8 January 2024 02:56 (two months ago) link
feels kind of like we're on an every 2-3 month cycle with this lately
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 8 January 2024 03:21 (two months ago) link
I still think about that time somebody direct messagef me on America Online in like 1998 because I was in a chat room about the breeders
he said hi I'm Steve Albini, I was curious to see you in this chat room, I'm trying to find out more about what people think about this music
and I gave him my thoughts
I always wonder, it couldn't have really been him. but also, to what end would a person have lied about that. the '90s!
― Swen, Friday, 23 February 2024 13:21 (three weeks ago) link
well there wasn't a whole lot more to do online in the 90s
― maf you one two (maffew12), Friday, 23 February 2024 13:22 (three weeks ago) link
Albini was on the chugchanga-l mailing list in ‘94-‘95 as I recall
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 February 2024 13:44 (three weeks ago) link
90s abini usenet group, thems is stern vibes
― a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Friday, 23 February 2024 14:59 (three weeks ago) link
"trying to find out more about what people think about this music"
Doesn't sound like Albini to me.
― Cow_Art, Friday, 23 February 2024 15:37 (three weeks ago) link
Albini--known for seeking out feedback on his productions from randos
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 23 February 2024 16:01 (three weeks ago) link
to what end would a person have lied about that. the '90s!I for one have never heard of an adult lying to a younger person on the internet about who they are and attempting to build rapport by asking them questions about their interests, in the ‘90s
― bae (sic), Friday, 23 February 2024 16:23 (three weeks ago) link
this happened to me in 1995 but with Phil Rudd of AC/DC
― jaymc, Friday, 23 February 2024 16:31 (three weeks ago) link
When I was working in a record store in London during the 90s a chatty customer said that he was Jonathan Richman, and that he was shortly going to be doing a gig with Hawkwind.
― Kim Kimberly, Friday, 23 February 2024 16:47 (three weeks ago) link
That's interesting b/c someone was impersonating Richman more recently, even booking shows in his name I think (here in the US)... it made the news
― Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Friday, 23 February 2024 17:02 (three weeks ago) link
Let Me Google That For Me: https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article253810488.html
― Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Friday, 23 February 2024 17:03 (three weeks ago) link
I just imagined Hawkwind opening for Richman and made me think of the notion of mega acts supporting JR. Missy Elliot, U2, Pink Floyd...
Pink Floyd opening for Jonathan Richman: stunning light show/psychedelic opener ends and house lights come on, JR walks onto stage with his acoustinc and explains to the manager why the air conditioner has to be turned off ("it's too noisy"). Launches into "I'm a Little Dinosaur." Lighters fill the air.
― Cow_Art, Friday, 23 February 2024 17:09 (three weeks ago) link
Maybe the closest JR and Hawkwind came to sharing a stage:
Sex Pistols played to one of the biggest crowds of the weekend at the second day of the Barcelona leg of the Summercase Festival last night (July 19).
The UK punk veterans played an extended, cover-packed set that climaxed with unique takes on Hawkwind‘s ‘Silver Machine’ and Jonathan Richman‘s ‘Roadrunner’.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 23 February 2024 17:11 (three weeks ago) link
― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 23 February 2024 18:31 (three weeks ago) link
reading the SST records biography and had a quick chuckle at Albini's fairly OTM description on the Hüsker Dü crew:
Greg looks like he stepped out of GQ, with cropped hair, trimmed mustache and muscular build; Grant could replace anybody in Motorhead (maybe two people in Motorhead); and Bob looks like a St. Paul gas station attendant after a hard day's work.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, 23 February 2024 19:58 (three weeks ago) link
In case anyone missed it back-when, here is a great story of a writer coming across an email address that turns out belongs to Eddie Van Halen, which sets in motion a long mostly epistolary friendship:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/eddie-van-halen-secret-friendship-emails-1367678/
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 23 February 2024 20:03 (three weeks ago) link
Why was that guy emailing addresses he found on LexisNexis? Kinda weird…Relatedly, I saw this on Threads today… don’t know who the guy is, but I guess it’s plausible enough.
― Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Friday, 23 February 2024 20:17 (three weeks ago) link
wait eddie van halen is dead?!
― a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Friday, 23 February 2024 20:29 (three weeks ago) link
Quick, nobody mention Prince or Bowie either.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 23 February 2024 20:31 (three weeks ago) link
Bowie was another early internet user who quite happily chatted to people on obscure boards about music, art etc
― ( X '____' )/ (zappi), Friday, 23 February 2024 20:34 (three weeks ago) link
Why was that guy emailing addresses he found on LexisNexis? Kinda weird…
Sending emails like this has become something of a pastime, an exercise in nostalgia when the drudgery of my workday becomes too much to handle.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 23 February 2024 20:38 (three weeks ago) link
Good thing he didn’t discover posting on ILM I guess… never would’ve gotten the story!
― Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Friday, 23 February 2024 20:44 (three weeks ago) link
Electrical Audio had a forum where Albini was a regular poster, would not be remotely surprising if he was frequenting music chat rooms or Usenet back in the day.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 23 February 2024 20:46 (three weeks ago) link
Advice from the font on mic'ing guitarshttps://www.premierguitar.com/artists/guitarists/steve-albini-always-in-session
― ringworm, Sunday, 10 March 2024 17:48 (one week ago) link
Interesting, thanks
― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 10 March 2024 18:14 (one week ago) link
Strings and Picks-Ice picks with the points cut off-D’Addario XLs (.012–.016–.020w–.028–.038–.048)
-Ice picks with the points cut off-D’Addario XLs (.012–.016–.020w–.028–.038–.048)
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 10 March 2024 19:34 (one week ago) link
Electrical Audio had a forum where Albini was a regular poster
― assert (matttkkkk), Sunday, 10 March 2024 19:36 (one week ago) link