when did Sonic Youth peak

they have not yet peaked

yeah they just need to apply themselves

As a cultural force in the 80s. As a musical force, in the 90s. Their best album (NYC G&F) came out in the 00's. I'll vote for 80s, back when they were mysterious and interesting.

the only sy *album* i can still be bothered with is brave men run, although lots of highlights elsewhere

I only like Daydream Nation. Dirty was meh. Didn't like Confusion is Sex or Evol or Bad Moon Rising. Haven't heard anything else. Maybe I should.

I'm not sure if it's possible to stress to people who weren't around in the 80's how out there they seemed. You could seriously freak out friends by putting on their albums. That wasn't true in 90s or 00s.

Their best album (NYC G&F)

I only like Daydream Nation.

Feel like these should be the poll options

ya 80s

apart from dn best 80s release was imo their actual ep sonic youth

lots of gems spread out in the 90s and 00s tho

I seriously freaked out friends from school with Dirty in the 90s but they were pretty square tbf.
2xp

DN is fine and i enjoy it but imo the decline started there

they obviously peaked with 'the diamond sea', anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves and to ilx

Music obviously peaked with "The Diamond Sea".

- me at 16

I only like Daydream Nation. Dirty was meh. Didn't like Confusion is Sex or Evol or Bad Moon Rising. Haven't heard anything else. Maybe I should.

Completely great quote. I hate Rubber Soul and Revolver and Sgt. Pepper. Liked Abbey Road (for the most part, that Octopus Garden song is something else). Haven't heard anything else. Maybe I should.

clue's in the name xp

Diamond Sea is a million minutes of Thurston planning to cheat on his wife.

Ultimately, I think I'll go with Dirty Boots as the center of their cultural and musical impact, even though I like lots of other things much more, and have voted 80s.

They obviously peaked in whichever decade the respondent was 16 in.

What about those of us who were 16 before they existed?

i liked the 90s stuff in high school. my band covered 100%, i thought mote was a really cool track, and i listened to a cassette of experimental jet set in my car a bunch. because i wasn't really around/aware it was hard for me to understand the reverence for their older material at that time.
now i would say the best album would be a combination of evol and sister. never got into daydream nation beyond teenage riot and eric's trip.

C&P (insane) discussion from other thread:

sonic youth peaked in the 80s and basically sucked after that

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 11:16 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nah nm i don't actually feel that way

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 11:16 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

slow but distinct decline with interesting interludes

― The Remoans of the May (Noodle Vague), Friday, 12 May 2017 11:21 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's better

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 11:22 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They got good when they discovered phaser and chorus pedals on Washing Machine.

the 80s records all sound like SHIT, horrible thin & flat production, almost as bad as Spot's work with Hüsker Dü. Daydream Nation has riffs but it sounds horrible. Goo onwards they had good production but ehh

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:26 (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

music talk should really be quarantined to ILM, for the sake of all the innocents

dmac is exempt from this, obv

― brimstead, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:28 (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

80s SY is straight noise rock lol who cares about production

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:30 (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the SY records that were "produced well" are boring as shit

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:31 (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Teenage Riot is one of the best riffs of all time, but that shit sounds weak on record. It's quiet & flat.

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:33 (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'll start a new thread in ILM

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:33 (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think if there's one person on this board whose views on music I can reliably disgree with it's flappy bird.

― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:34 (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk those 80s records sound fine to me. sister especially

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:36 (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ye mad puffin i think is referring to their live shows

sy the little princesses that they are have said they sometimes didnt feel like playing songs so played huge walls of sound and feedback sometimes, mostly in the 90s im gonna say

― i n f i n i t y (∞), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:37 (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sister and EVOL definitely sound better than Daydream Nation, and yeah I like all these records, but they could be so much better. I hate when shit production stifles great songs, most egregious example is Teenage Riot.

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:38 (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

anyway i started a different thread, moving on w/ nonmusical controversial opinions um..... Eyes Wide Shut is the best Kubrick movie

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:39 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

on White Light White Heat you can barely make out the drums what is up with that shitty production? for christ's sake learn how to mix properly

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:39 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

apples n oranges my dude. Teenage Riot is an anthem and the production doesn't serve it well. and fwiw i love the production on every VU record. i'm not saying everything needs to have big booming production, just that these particular records would've been served well by it.

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:41 (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

xp

bullshit punk rock diy ethos

― i n f i n i t y (∞), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:43 (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7TuWdHNsYY

this is their peak

Possibly true. I'd like to see which of their videos had the most play on MTV.

Music obviously peaked with "The Diamond Sea".

- me at 16

same

They obviously peaked in whichever decade the respondent was 16 in.

― emil.y, Friday, May 12, 2017 1:56 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. I was 13 when Rather Ripped came out, it was the first new SY record that came out after I had become a fan. I got Murray Street that summer and it's been my favorite ever since. Glad I got to see them in 2009.

What about those of us who were 16 before they existed?

― dlp9001, Friday, May 12, 2017 1:57 PM (fifty-five seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

y'all can attest to the mystery and cultural impact they had at first!

also in the 90s, they had a larger presence as arbiters of cool than a band, ime.

Honestly, they seem completely irrelevant now, and we should really be talking about some band that the Spotify algorithm likes. Consigned to the dustbin of history.

Like, isn't there some North Korean band that glenn likes that should be taking their place in this discussion?

Evol-Sister was the peak and both sound fat as fuck imo

man I'm listening to A Thousand Leaves right now, it's so good, they really fell in love with phaser pedals

xp yeah EVOL and Sister have p good production, but imo the songs on Daydream Nation are better

They peaked with Daydream Nation, you can't surpass Teenage Riot.

they actually did, it's called "Rain on Tin"

i guess as they got songier i loved them less but Sister at least has a bunch of great songs even if i don't love "Schizophrenia"

and i've got no problem with anthemic but it's not a thing i associate with or want from SY

DN might be their best album and imo Trilogy is the best thing on it

They never really mastered songwriting, and hence music was forced to rely on the likes of Steve Kipner and other professionals. Thank god songwriting was recovered from the ignorant masses. It's the only reason we still have music as we know it today...

Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped are two of their best albums. So many good tunes.

'88-94

Evol-Sister was the peak and both sound fat as fuck imo

― The Remoans of the May (Noodle Vague), Friday, May 12, 2017 2:05 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. i'd add bad moon rising too

Good questions to ask: why were they important (or were they). Which albums were important in terms of musical history.

I'm sure that Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped are the correct answers. Thanks, fuckwad, or whatever your name is. Amazing tunes, whooo!

alfred otm, NYC G&F thru Rather Ripped is easily their best run.

EVOL/Sister for me too. I was 16 in 1992 though *blows minds*

tbh I at least like most of their stuff from all decades

NYC G&F is an outlier, thanks to stolen equipment and a credulous bass player....

listening to NYC G&F for the first time in a while, never noticed the O'Rourkian glitch-fest at the end of the first track.

Their mid-80s run (Bad Moon Rising/Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation) is great, Goo is a misstep, Dirty is crap, Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star is almost good, and everything afterward is completely irrelevant.

A cord and a pedal and a life that'll do for now

tbh I at least like most of their stuff from all decades

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 12 May 2017 13:14 (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is true for me too but I guess I would place the peak in the 80s, since those five main studio albums still seem another-level to me. First, I was a little intrigued by flappy bird's comments on production, considering how someone born in 1993 might have no reference point for a time when it was a lot more difficult and expensive to get recording fidelity. But then he went and liked the production on Evol and Sister so that's probably not what's going on.

I hate most of that Ciccone Youth thing, though.

I do rate Murray Street about as high as the 80s albums, though!

i've never liked the production on daydream nation: everything seems masked, sister has a much richer sound

For me the turning point was seeing them supported by Pavement in 92. Pavement just felt so inspired in comparison - I didn't feel the need to see SY again. Hence my vote for 80s.

90s sonic youth is so bad

Their mid-80s run (Bad Moon Rising/Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation) is great, Goo is a misstep, Dirty is crap, Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star is almost good, and everything afterward is completely irrelevant.

― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Friday, May 12, 2017 2:22 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also otm

Hah hah, not touching this thread. Range of opinions on SY evidenced over and over again to be too varied. Last stretch of comments all as correct or wrong as any other. Good luck.

i've never liked the production on daydream nation: everything seems masked, sister has a much richer sound

― mark s, Friday, May 12, 2017 2:29 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this is otm, Sister sounds much more saturated.

Never really got why so many people think Dirty is crap tbh

They became interesting with 100% and should have called it quits after Creme Brulee.

We've got a sound! = EVOL, Sister, DY
We've got a modern rock/MTV audience! = Goo, Dirty, EJTS
Let's jam! = WM, ATY, NYCG&F
We've learned to combine these things! = MS, SN, RR

I like to love every one of these albums except WM and the one released in 2009.

murray st and sonic nurse are my favs so i guess 00s

Murray Street was the biggest disappointment for me because they brought in the two saxophonists from Borbetomagus on one song, and then just had them bleat softly in the background for like a minute.

much too long, yes

Sister sounds much more saturated.

Oh, totally. It was done on an all-tube analogue board, which I'm pretty sure they pushed/saturated. Such a pleasantly warm and in-the-red sound.

"Kotton Krown" and "Theresa's Sound-World" are my favorite let's-simmer-in-sound-for-its-own-sake SY moments.

Daydream Nation was the peak, but the biggest dropoff didn't come until after Goo.

i love the diversity of opinions itt :)

which are the LPs not yet repped for?

whichever they are they are are the best

I still love all those 80s records.

which are the LPs not yet repped for?

― mark s, Friday, May 12, 2017 3:16 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Confusion is Sex & SYR series

Washing Machine and A Thousand Leaves are my favorites and the ones I return to most often though being in my teens when they were released is no doubt a contributing factor.

Confusion was included in this:

those five main studio albums still seem another-level to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=506nWs6Wi-U

EVOL is apex for me. it's the one where it sounded like they could be almost anything at all, and most of the tracks on it feel less 'received' or stereotyped in terms of structure than Sister and later records. That would become their biggest weakness to my ears, ditty after ditty...

My favorite albums from Sonic Youth are Daydream Nation and Goo.
I pretty much like to imagine a world where Sonic Youth is a pop band.
So in my little world they peaked from 1988-1990. Not sure how that translates to the poll answers tho.

eh... 80s

80s but hey they were no Live Skull

This is really tough, there's stuff I love and stuff I'm not fussed about in each decade. EVOL through to Dirty is the classic run but I love Sonic Nurse as well. I think I'd have to say '80s. Also for what it's worth I've never had a problem with the production on the '80s records and I first heard them in 2002.

i find the idea of bands (or filmmakers) 'peaking' not at all consistent with a perfect rollercoaster curve in all cases. (esp those who last ~ 30 years)

There are some v sublime songs on WM like Saucer-like, Washing Machine, Unwind, and Skip Tracer. even No Queen Blues features some super-saturated, all-strings-tuned-to-the-same-frequency, trembling/beating freq's -lushness going on.. the album is some kind of turning point for them, with the subsequent SYR series (silver sessions, hey!), their old equipment getting stolen, and then the near demo-like quality (muddled-ass/immediate version of Ineffable Me) of A Thousand Leaves. ATL is lush as hell, summer of '98 (goin' nuts), phaser/flange excess, Wildflower Soul, Hoarfrost, Snare, girl et al. ATL is raw and beautiful, their last great album, imo. maybe they peaked with Sweet Shine.

I Love ATL despite the longeurs. "Hoarfrost" is my favorite Ranaldo song on any album.

xp yeah my favorite Lee song is Saucer-Like despite that wackass beat poetry bridge

Karen Koltrane, too. lot of neat sounds and weird, dank atmosphere going on in that track.. and the pretty part of it, towards the end.

'Daydream Nation' and 'Goo' feel like the peaks with 'Murray Street' firmly establishing their high quality but very Sonic Youth Template form since 2001. Even the latest Thurston Moore album sounds like it's a child of 'Murray Street' to me.

Still a big fan.

it's not so much that I think the initial run is incomparably better as it is that I find Daydream like 2 standard deviations better than *anything* else they did.

i find the idea of bands (or filmmakers) 'peaking' not at all consistent with a perfect rollercoaster curve in all cases. (esp those who last ~ 30 years)

― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, May 12, 2017 3:47 PM

much less poets

lmao

1985-1988

I always listened to this band for sheer texture and a kind of weird animal vibe and for me Sister is it

I used to manage a really creepy middle aged guy who was really heavily into Sonic Youth and Swans. He was a teacher and would openly hit on the (adult) students. I would've sacked him but he was quite seriously ill and possibly only surviving due to the company's unusually generous health insurance, so I let him transfer to a different city instead.

Pretty sure I had a point I was making here but it's completely escaped me. 80s.

I long wondered what they would sound like if they used DI guitars and then they went and did it on Rather Ripped.

alfred otm, NYC G&F thru Rather Ripped is easily their best run.

― flappy bird, Friday, May 12, 2017 6:14 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i celebrate the entire catalog, but calling NYC G&F their best album is an impressive #challop

the only sy *album* i can still be bothered with is brave men run,

i kiss you

Ha, I noticed that too. He can't even be bothered with the whole album.

Oh, fun poll.

Went with 90s, which may be because that's the decade when I jumped onboard and really FELT SY

i celebrate the entire catalog, but calling NYC G&F their best album is an impressive #challop

― tylerw, Friday, May 12, 2017 10:49 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Don't think anyone said that. NYCG+F-Murray Street-Sonic Nurse-Rather Ripped is a helluva run though. Myself I wouldn't mind adding Washing Machine and A Thousand Leaves at the beginning of that run, too.

dlp said it in the third post!

Not being a dick either. I saw them live in the 80s, have followed them forever, and it's a completely amazing album. Just not what people wanted at the time. Not to sidetrack things. I still vote 80s.

Re NYC Ghosts & Flowers - there seemed to be a bit of a Sonic Youth backlash around that time. I think the NME was quite anti-SY around then, at least I remember reading about some Steven Wells hatchet job although I didn't actually ever read that article. That might've been about A Thousand Leaves actually but somewhere around then anyway. It's not one of my favourites, but I do have a soft spot for it I saw them live for the first time on that tour. Friend I went with was negative about their recent stuff before we went but he was converted after seeing them do it live.

Epic dissonant jams, clean-tone prepared guitar improv, and laptop glitch pretty much was what I wanted from them at the time; I was hoping they'd integrate the ideas from SYR3 and SYR4 into one of their major label 'song' albums. I really like the ideas on it but I don't think they really realised all of them on that album. A lot of it worked better live. It's a shame they didn't come back to those ideas.
xp

Brent diCrescenzo famously gave it a 0.0 in Pitchfork, which he later regretted.

Just looked to see if Amy Phillips' "Sonic Youth, please break up" piece in the Voice was about NYC G&F, but it wasn't - it was about Murray Street.

Apols dlp and Sund4r, had not seen that! 'tis a good 'un tho.

Brent DiCrescenzo... Sigh...

It's raining stupid twenty year old hardmanning p4k reviews here lately

Dirty, Goo, and Washing Machine all floor me.

My sister-in-law was the "alien" in Mark Romanek's video
for "Little Trouble Girl". She is 1/4 Japanese

I love this performance of "Nevermind (What Was It Anyway)," O'Rourke looks cool as fuck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSF7s7wc0oQ

I used to fantasize that they'd go full-on with the 'weird sounds', like some of the material in the SYR series, NCG&F etc; songs built on foundations of odd, prepared guitar sounds, atonal bits of percussion, reined-in feedback and other.. but they just kind of settled into this 2nd rate Malkmus-esque (nu-Neil Young) riff rock in the 00s. I don't know, it just got more bland. Rather Ripped sounded invigorated, and it's got a few novel songs/ideas, but it mostly falls into riff-based rock territory. I didn't know anyone else as fanatical about them during the mid 90s, save for a friend who encouraged and reinforced listening to the more 'out there' side projects, like Lee's solo stuff (East Jesus, Broken Circle/Spiral Hill), along with the William Hooker material.. and Thurston's freestyle collabs, like Barefoot in the Head, Piece for Jetsun Dolma, Pillow Wand, Fuck Shit Up etc. much of that material is singular/exceptional. but after a while, even those sorts of projects became repetitive, w/Thurston's incessant and heavy-handed behind-the-bridge raking/wanking, and Lee doing a lot of collage stuff that sampled his older work--interest gradually waned. Piece for Jestun Dolma (with Tom Surgal and William Winant) still stands as one of my favorite recordings, along with Amarillo Ramp (to a lesser extent). SYR5 is underrated. and Lydia's Moth/Not Me (Moore/Surgal) is a sweet little gem.

Piece for Jetsun Dolma and Thurston's work on the Heavy soundtrack was sort of "peak" (Thurston) material for me. Barefoot in the Head is another one - recorded in 1988 and featuring Jim Sauter + Don Dietrich, it's one of the few Borbetomagus recordings I've become familiar with. the liner notes are fuckin' priceless, as well

Thank God for AMM, The Dead C, and US Maple though. and Rafael Toral

sonic youth peaked when i saw them at bonnaroo

Not enough love for Evol in this thread, I mean how good an album must be to get praise.

Expressway to your skull, Shadow of a doubt, Tom Violence, Green Light, Secret Girls, that's peak SY for me.

Epic dissonant jams, clean-tone prepared guitar improv, and laptop glitch pretty much was what I wanted from them at the time; I was hoping they'd integrate the ideas from SYR3 and SYR4 into one of their major label 'song' albums. I really like the ideas on it but I don't think they really realised all of them on that album. A lot of it worked better live. It's a shame they didn't come back to those ideas.
xp

― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r)

This is a far more succinct point I was trying to make (xp), after having already read (half-consciously) yr post earlier in the day.

when did sonic youth peak
can the subaltern speak
man my brows are on fleek

There are peaks, or instances of beauty and beautiful form on most every sonic youth album. Except for The Eternal, i dunno. it's possible they channeled more fire and an unhinged locked-in-edness (less self-awareness?) during the 80s, invoking some truly otherworldly episodes.. Theresa's Sound-world and JC, though

I wish there was a recording of the London debut cause it was quite spectacular and not witnessed by many. Forced on stage almmst before the doors opened they pretty much exploded, think they blew up a bass amp.

I really liked their 80s shows when I saw them most.
But also really love teh Dublin set from '98 where they sounded like the Velvets around Melody Laughter and the Nothing Song.
I need to find teh tape fo teh show I bought and transfer it for further listening.

Music obviously peaked with "The Diamond Sea".

- me at 16

― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Friday, May 12, 2017 1:53 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

me too

but this

They obviously peaked in whichever decade the respondent was 16 in.

― emil.y, Friday, May 12, 2017 1:56 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is precisely otm

Their mid-80s run (Bad Moon Rising/Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation) is great, Goo is a misstep, Dirty is crap, Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star is almost good, and everything afterward is completely irrelevantbrilliant.

fixed

Is the mark of a great band the fact that there is zero consensus on their best work?

This is a great thread, btw, and I sorta regret voting 90s now, because what someone said upthread about the run between NYC and RR is absolutely true, that was a major peak. I just love WM so much, clouded my judgment for a second (because if there is any period I don't like as much it's Goo > Dirty)

Still love this band

This band saved my life. Before I heard "Teen Age Riot" I thought the Mission U.K. was super rockin'. My shit taste was gone in an instant.

The point of SY is that they DIDN'T peak, every song, every riff, was about being in the moment and made the music so quicksilver and instinctive and goofy and transcendent and half-assed and charged and hilarious. Even in the course of one song they flipped from alchemy to catharsis. Genius struck on every record, sometimes frequently, sometimes a couple of eye popping moments in a sea of mediocrity. Some days it's Silver Sessions, some days it's Stereo Sanctity, sometimes it's Or, sometimes it's the muffled, fucked up tape at the start of Schizophrenia, sometimes it's the oscillating amp at the end of Providence, or the crystalline jam of Sympathy for the Strawberry.
Hey, a mildly drunk wannabe critic - what did you expect in a thread on SY?

Hey, a mildly drunk wannabe critic - what did you expect in a thread on SY?

I was going to derail this conversation by asking why people hate on on 'Goo' but I'm going to go find a more gooey thread.

They peaked at various points throughout their career.

Goo is my favorite of the grunge records

Washing Machine was the peak

murray street in my heart of hearts

for those who were around and paying attention - what was it like when Murray Street came out? heavily tied to 9/11 or just exciting new stripped down riff odyssey songs or confirmation that'd they continue on well into the 00s or none of what i just said?

I don't recall an explicit 9/11 connection in the marketing the way there was with, say, Springsteen's The Rising - it was just "here's a new Sonic Youth album." They mentioned the reason behind the album title, of course - that was where their rehearsal studio was located, and it was destroyed on 9/11 or closed thereafter, or something - but that was about the extent of it.

I was around and paying attention when Murray Street came out and I remember it being praised and then I bought it and was disappointed at how boring it was

Sonic youth has a bimodal distribution of goodness in the 80s and 00s. They are one of the greatest rock n roll bands in the history of the genre.

I was around and paying attention when Murray Street came out and I remember it being praised and then I bought it and was disappointed at how boring it was

I listened in a store and thought it sounded boring as fuck. My friend really wanted to see them when she visited me in Montreal, even though she also thought the then-new album was garbage, so I bought a ticket. They completely blew us away live. I bought the album and found it underwhelming. (Derek Bailey's Ballads was my aoty.) Somehow things about it kept drawing me back until it became one of the SY albums I played the most.

murray street hooked me from jump. it's sometimes my favorite SY album which cycles with DN and sister.

00s 4 lyfe

favorite SY album is Sister but I feel like the whole concept of "peaking" is kind of ridiculous tbh. they've made a ton of interesting music since then, and I'm more likely to listen to lots of it than I am to haul Sister out of mothballs. album ranking is...fun, I know, but probably the least interesting way of thinking about an artist's work

tl;dr, 80s

never heard of sonic youth

I listened to them first on the bavarian radio around 1987, it was quite noisy avant stuff, interesting but it did not really convince me. I got hooked in summer 1992 when Dirty was released. It was my entrance ticket to them and I will always consider it as their apex. What I really loved about this album was that there were so many songs on it and that they were so short and full of punch. Long guitar dominated pieces à la Grateful Dead never did it for me. Dirty was like a punk revival, fast songs right into the face of the listener. And at the same time these songs had hooks and the lyrics were fun to decipher in theory. Which I never really did of course. Listening to Dirty on full blast with eight speakers in a car going 120 mph on the German motorway is one of the most rejuvenating experiences in life.

What is the general opinion on Experimental Jet Set? I gather it's nobody's favorite but "Bull in the Heather" was my first exposure to SY in middle school and it rocked

love bull in the heather

i bought it the day it came out - clear vinyl iirc - and did not play it too much after that :/

Not enough love for Evol in this thread, I mean how good an album must be to get praise.

― Van Horn Street, Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:35 AM (fifteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Expressway to your skull, Shadow of a doubt, Tom Violence, Green Light, Secret Girls, that's peak SY for me.

― Van Horn Street, Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM (fifteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is where the thread peaked

yah, Evol is good. EJSTNS is top 3 for me, still. the quiet/muted production is fresh, coming off of Dirty, and there's dank, deep atmosphere to it. love the variety of songs and raw feel of it. Androgynous Mind, Starfield Road*, Screaming Skull, Bone, Tokyo Eye, and Sweet Shine are great tracks. the only bum song is Self-Obsessed and Sexxee (Disconnection Notice), shit. the drumming on Waist is great, and the unusual, canal boat guitar sounds during the outro of Doctor's orders. also, an interesting album to listen to individual stereo channels, guitar tracks are hard-panned. no Lee vocals, though

*kills

What is the general opinion on Experimental Jet Set?

Bought it week of release, liked it a lot at the time (mentioned it above as a brief return to form after the suckiness of Dirty) but haven't listened to it in years. Might revisit it this weekend, though.

xp EJSTNS = secret origin point for long jammy 00s Sonic Youth

Someone on ILX said something to the effect that "Disconnection Notice" sounded like a super stretched-out version of "Self-Obsessed and Sexxee" and I think that might be true of other MS songs sounding like extended jammy versions of Jet Set songs like "Sympathy for the Strawberry" (Bone) and even "Rain on Tin" (Tokyo Eye)

i posted that a few years ago, about Disconnection Notice resembling Self-Obsessed.. also, compare the instrumental breaks of Becuz and Dude Ranch Nurse -- they're bizarrely similar

NERD is the best of the commercial trilogy.

fuckin autocorrect

Experimental obv

For me, the band peaked for the entire duration of 'Death Valley '69' the very first time that I heard it.

In high school, I listened to all the albums without distinguishing that much between them. Later, I grew to think that EJSTNS was their worst album and never listened to it. (Evol was my favourite for years.) I pulled EJSTNS out again when I read KG's book, though, and was surprised by how well it clicked, although I still wouldn't rank it among their better albums. "Self-Obsessed and Sexxee" is one of my favourite songs on it, actually, despite the "party party party/party all the time" bit.

I sometimes wonder if obsessive SY listening as a teenager set my ear for pitch and tuning back severely and made ear training as an adult that much harder.

w pipeline/kill time

# of album listeners is interesting anecdotally:
https://www.last.fm/music/Sonic+Youth/+albums

For me, the band peaked for the entire duration of 'Death Valley '69' the very first time that I heard it.

now you mention it

xp I get what Flappy Bird was saying about the production on DN sounding flat - took me time initially get it, I had always imagined it sounding more like Television/what Murray Street ended up sounding like (DN being the first SY CD I had bought and thus heard). Now I think it adds to its atmosphere, a claustrophobic element – there's no air on that record at all.

Always thought Sister was overrated - has really high peaks itself but a bunch of duds on the record.

When did SY peak? Answer: during this song (great sound btw AND two basses)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy1pNeuGIlw

Evol, Sister and Daydream are the most consistent. Goo has some really mediocre songs mixed with a few good ones. I do like the breezy-jammy-summery mood and perfected sound of some of their later melodic albums, like Murray Street, which is up there.

xp I get what Flappy Bird was saying about the production on DN sounding flat - took me time initially get it, I had always imagined it sounding more like Television/what Murray Street ended up sounding like (DN being the first SY CD I had bought and thus heard). Now I think it adds to its atmosphere, a claustrophobic element – there's no air on that record at all.

― in twelve parts (lamonti), Sunday, May 14, 2017 2:01 AM (fourteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's crazy the way the drums are mixed! they sound like paper! that's an interesting take i hadn't thought of - I'll listen to DN and reevaluate, and I'll listen to it LOUD...

Flappy, which release of DN are you listening to?

Does anything from 1988 sound like Murray Street?

the 2005 reissue/deluxe edition

and yeah, EVOL and Sister sound great.

Oh, dude, the deluxe edition is remastered really hot. The drums got squashed. The 1993 DGC CD sounds pretty different: it has more space and the drums are cleaner.

oh word, i'll check that out then

thanks for the heads up! i love a lot of the songs on DN but never got obsessed w/ it

You can really hear the difference on e.g. the drum fills after ≈5:05 in "Teenage Riot".

more space

More dynamic range anyway. I sort of get the 'claustrophobic' point.

I guess this is an ultra-conventional opinion but "DN" is still my favorite SY album and has been pretty much since I first heard it, which was a bit after I heard "Goo" and "Dirty", and before I heard "Sister" or "EVOL". "EVOL" through "Goo" is my favorite SY run, though I also like "Murray Street" a lot.

sweet shine is the one on EJTNS that presages the kind of more polite, modal, jammy period of SY from washing machine onwards.

really weird to see thurston rocking a les paul in that conan clip flappy bird posted - if ever there was a band who seemed less likely to be jimmy-paging it up with a low-slung gibson...

i guess i'm a corny received-wisdom fuck cuz my favourite periods of sy are sister-evol-daydream nation and murray street-sonic nurse-rather ripped, although i'll stan for bad moon rising anytime too

the guitar breaks in 'unmade bed' are some of my favourite-ever guitar sounds, not just sonic youth ones

My favorite SY albums are EVOL, Dirty, and Thousand Leaves, and I mean, obv they sound like completely different bands on each of those. I guess I feel like they peaked at least once every decade, which is why I'm not voting!

Also, "Sweet Shine" is easily my favorite song on Experimental so I guess that's pretty congruent with my opinions xp to linee

xxp ha i thought it was fitting & funny that for a tv appearance promoting their most out there experimental album ever, Thurston would play a standard issue Les Paul.

EVOL is tremendous

xp haha I like Lee & Thurston's matching Terrence and Phillip guitar decals

i love the way that song ends - you keep expecting everyone to drop out, but they just gradually play quieter and weaker until it ends in a whimper

sorry, a bit OT.. i feel like they (BEAK) somehow captured the feel of "expressway to yr skull" on this song:
https://beak.bandcamp.com/track/kidney - maybe it's just the loping quality of it

I can see it.

WOO
I'M CUMIN HOOOOMMMME

Multiple peaks. Murray Street was their most recent peak but the records since then all had much to recommend them.

Alfred, Sweet Shine would have to be in my Sonic Youth Top 10. Kim's vocals on that track are sublime.

I love the seven album stretch from '83 to'92.

fav album: Sister
fav song: Starpower

listened to this show yesterday and I'm willing to say it's a Sonic Youth Peak https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/152688686497/sonic-youth-cats-cradle-carrboro-north

yeah that show is so sweet - i had no idea they did two sets on the 2000 tour. there's some videos from that tour on youtube, but i haven't found any with O'Rourke performing his solo material.

lol

http://www.head-records.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/3605-420x423.jpg

"Schizophrenia" was their peak followed closely by "Candle" and most of 'Daydream Nation'. I couldn't really be bothered after that although I vaguely enjoyed the few things I heard on the radio.

great interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdzY49xlvdY

syr 7........ really? fuhhhhhhhhhh

I think (Murray Street), Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped are three amazing albums for a bunch of people who've made a tonne of music and are 40-something tour dogs, tbh

I love the s/t EP, love Confusion Is Sex, EVOL and Sister, enjoy Experimental Jet Set and Ciccone Youth most in the period after that and then skip ahead to Nurse

Oh and imho the SYR series is utter trash :/

master=dik /whitey album for me

oh, not is utter trash - but personal peak

syr 4 + 5 were pretty worthwhile, for me. 1 + 2 are pretty nice, for the most part. i like the hi fi version of the "ineffable me" riff on syr2. syr3 (with o'rourke) was off-putting at first, and densely layered, but it's a grower.

Goodbye 20th Century is one of the best things they ever did (especially their version of 'Having Never Written a Note for Percussion' by James Tenny).

Their live performance of SY4 at the Royal Festival Hall in London is the only time I've ever seen a headline act get loudly booed by sections of the audience.

I like almost everything they've done to some degree, often despite myself. Their recording of the Tenney is a good example: I recognize that it is far less impressive, and probably less faithful to the intent behind the score than e.g. this. (It's an open piece but I'm not convinced that it really makes sense to interpret it as an ensemble piece where different members get to hammer away at different pitches.) That said, the result is still enjoyable to listen to for me.

i really love sonic nurse

daydream nation has never clicked with me for some reason, idk why, but i love sister and goo

can i vote for all three

i really love sonic nurse

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, June 8, 2017 1

my man

Wrt the production discussion upthread, this guy managed to bring out and clean up the drums a little on Sister.

80s but they were never really that good.

^urban dictionary definition of a challop

I hated Sonic Youth, then I was intrigued by them, then I loved them, then I was annoyed by them, now I'm absolutely bored by them.

Can't really see voting comfortably for any of these choices, as every era seems to have just as much brilliance as it does pretentiously posturing wankery.

wankery in music is good, tho

answer is daydream nation, btw

I'm not a head but I like all their records that I've heard

Sometimes it is, sometimes it's just, like I said, pretentious posturing.

I consider the Grateful Dead and electric Miles some of my favorite music ever, for what it's worth.

i was gonna claim that intent is inaudible but i'm not sure it's true. it's easier to parse when discussing a group making a radical sonic departure or making a dumb movie or something. i don't know really know what sonic youth aren't that they're pretentiously posturing to be.. aren't they super innovative in terms of rock music? pretentions of "serious art music"-ness? sorry to pick, just braindumping

I pretty much always have that problem with the criticism "pretentious". It's one thing to criticize someone for e.g. trying and failing to write a meaningful concept album but it seems odd to me to add an additional criticism for pretending to write a meaningful concept.

this guy managed to bring out and clean up the drums a little on Sister.

Washing machine/A thousand leaves is the peak.

Our maybe self-titled/confusion is sex/kill yr idols

I dunno, definitely one of those 2 eras.

I guess I am throwing that word out there (the dreaded "pretentious" — which I don't like either, but if the shoe fits) because of the way the band presented themselves. Well, not so much the band, as much as Thurston and Kim. Like it or not, they were definitely out there to make an "ARTISTIC STATEMENT WITH GUITARS." Which, I don't know, just bugs me.

isn't that every art rock band ever

i get what you're saying though - they (Thurston & Kim) had an aloofness that was really irritating

how they positioned themselves as unflappable coolhunters and tastemakers... i only hear it in the music when they go in that wack ass beat poet shit

FFS, the muffled, burred sound of Sister is one of its greatest features for me. Right from those opening tomtom hits I feel like I have slipped into this weird little detuned cotton wool universe.
― attention vampire (MatthewK), Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:22 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this! sister's sonic palette is unique. don't touch it!

pretentious ppl make really good ass music sometimes

Oh, absolutely. Which is why I said I couldn't really vote, as all periods have instances of utterly inspired mastery.

But they did make an artistic statement with guitars. I don't see what the pretence was.

Also, guys, that's someone's private remaster of Sister on Youtube; not like it's an official release or anything. At least they're doing something more interesting than that deluxe remaster of DN.

I love "The Burning Spear" so much but it's just undisciplined Liquid Liquid. I said SYR is trash but SYR 4 is kind of a weird exception, I resented it when it came out because it seemed like some push toward "legitimizing their pop music in the eyes of [whom?] by staking a claim within the avant-garde musical community" which is disappointing in six different ways at once, but in retrospect I'm totally into both the spirit of its curation and the quality of its execution

it seemed like some push toward "legitimizing their pop music in the eyes of [whom?] by staking a claim within the avant-garde musical community"

I never felt like this was the intention fwiw.

Not that I'd know but it's just not how I ever saw it. Band members had been doing avant and improv side projects fairly consistently for a while by that point and had played with Branca around when they started releasing anything as a band. And "whom" seems like a key question there: I never imagined that the band was really that desperate to impress the very small niche of people who know who Christian Wolff and James Tenney are.

I don't feel like it was the intention either! But I did at the time.

I will try to describe it. I was told by friends that Sonic Youth had issued some statement to people calling them sell-outs for playing Lollapalooza, saying they'd take the money, build their own studio, and start their SYR series. The false equivalency of "difficult music" with "antiestablishment" has no truck with me as I don't think sonic dissonance and politics are related. The idea that a rock band would play improvised new music, or, in the case of SYR 4, perform compositions by avant-garde composers, as an effort to gain back the perceived loss of credibility from "going mainstream" just makes me feel insane about a long list of bullet-points, i.e. the ridiculousness of fan ownership, the ridiculousness of making "difficult music records" to appease that ownership, that aforementioned false equivalency, etc. etc.

In short, I perceived that the SYR series and 4 in particular was a stupid exercise at appeasing stupid fans and their stupid perceptions of what a band was supposed to do. At the time I felt this. But now I don't care. It's a good recording of some good compositions, good work team!

I mean I used to feel weird about Ciccone Youth and SY's cover of Superstar or whatever because I thought they were piss-takes. I used to think Thurston was fucking annoying for wearing his list of influences on his sleeve in interviews like he felt he needed a pedigree. I remember in the 90s the scourge of authenticity and the smug superiority. I don't care any more. Ciccone Youth rocks and I love the cover of "Superstar". Idk sorry for the long types. I don't know how to feel about this band lol

Did anyone watch that beck/thurston 120 minutes interview I posted above. Not sure if they're both assholes, only one of them (and which one), or if it's just me who is the asshole.

Like c'mon Sund4r I know they live and work in NYC and they're as avant-garde as anybody but you don't think there's something kind of suspect and smug about a second-billing festival band issuing a survey recording of avant-garde compositions? I guess it's the survey-esque nature of the thing that frustrated me xp

Also lol at that interview. "Maybe a Heino record.. or Xanadu..." "Well, I'm sure all these viewers can really relate to you on that!" idk! it was the 90s! everybody was like that, no? Beck is just not selling it particularly well

(I'm a fan of that interview!)

Supporting/encouraging Beck was the biggest aesthetic crime anyone in Sonic Youth was ever involved in.

in retrospect, this is v v true

I always felt that SY4 was more of an attempt to impress O'Rourke, or - we've now got this guy who knows a lot about avant-garde music and has improvised a lot, how do make USE of that?

And weren't they just saying, the more 'popular' things we like to do fund the less 'popular' things we like to do?

Considering the 90s were a time where Beck was into drone guitar and Olivia since before he could speak and he was so slack that his real name was the sound of a sneaker hitting the wall I think that playing into the dissonance = credibility = cool equation was probably a part of it, even if the story of them starting SYR to allay "sell-out" accusations was spurious

that Beck interview is fucking classic. SYR4 is great.. i was a super-stupid fan of sonic youth in 1999, and it fell right in line with my own trajectory outwards, discovering the larger world of music, fucking around with sounds and recording regularly. side A (of 4) sounded fully unhinged, with Kim G's vague, hushed vocals woven into the loose fabric - it was mysterious and difficult to understand. it introduced me to Christian Marclay, who made satisfying percussive sounds w/turntable, records etc. on "Burdocks" (a highlight) and throughout the four sides (the longer Cage pieces esp.) "Six for New Time" is another highlight, maybe the closest thing resembling a song (Slint-like?) on the album, and it introduced me to Pauline Oliveros. loved the variety of percussion and electronic sounds, the general sparseness of it, with meaty textures and odd juxtapositions.. but the ideas it presented were sometimes more appealing than the actual material/results. i'm glad to have been naive or ignorant of any supposed political or aesthetic intent for the album at the time, though i really dug the layout (font, graphics etc.) of the SYR series.

Considering the 90s were a time where Beck was into drone guitar and Olivia since before he could speak and he was so slack that his real name was the sound of a sneaker hitting the wall I think that playing into the dissonance = credibility = cool equation was probably a part of it, even if the story of them starting SYR to allay "sell-out" accusations was spurious

― fgti, Friday, June 9, 2017 8:13 PM (twelve minutes ago)

this post is poetry

True story (and PUA tip): I shared that interview with my current partner of 3.5 years when we were first courting.

SYR4 is great.. i was a super-stupid fan of sonic youth in 1999, and it fell right in line with my own trajectory outwards, discovering the larger world of music, fucking around with sounds and recording regularly.

This was very similar to my experience. By '99, I'd just started getting seriously into experimental composers. From my weirdly self-absorbed pov, it just seemed like a logical direction for them to go at the time, with the alternative moment in popular culture having more or less passed, esp after they had already put out a 20-minute song that was mostly a noise jam on a Geffen record.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

154 votes! nice. kinda surprised that 00s placed last

The results are too close

Lmao

this fuckin guy http://pitchfork.com/tv/22-over-under/1987-thurston-moore-rates-harry-styles-vaping-and-90s-nostalgia/

154 votes

wtf

xp i love that when they get to "90s nostalgia" thurston sounds like he's midway through a stereotypical old person speech "which was the style at the time..."

also damn i know i've thought this and probably posted this before but are those caricatures they do for the over/under's intentionally really bad and unflattering?

The "1987" in that url was really fucking with my head.

vaping blows

otm

"Sugar is just wicked at my age."

hey that too (i'm the same age as him); weight gain is a bitch for old dudes, even stringbeans like thurston

TeenAge wiot

hello twenty, fifteen!

sister-sister-sister

radical adults lick godhead style

boys go to jupiter get more stupider
girls go to mars become rockstars

one two one two one two titty

don't forget to close the door

Terror Twilight’s second attempt at actualization began at Sonic Youth’s Lower East Side studio/practice space Echo Canyon, rented out to the band at friends’ rates. The manageable budget was the main attraction but within a couple days it became apparent that the studio’s sundry idiosyncrasies were a bridge too far for Godrich. Acceptable headphone mixes were nearly impossible to achieve and the faders were upside down.

they peaked a lot when the faders were upside down, probably