falling in love with the cocteaus again.

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the cocteau twins. thanx to
soulseek, have re-acquainted myself with tears-inducing
long-forgotten gems, obscurities to die for,
collabs, live tracks, etc. had to sell the box
set a couple of years back basically due to
near-starvation, after having hunted for it forever.

they make me feel christmassy inside y'know ?

'those eyes, that mouth' - my vote for their all-time classic.

how is it that they aren't as loved as, say,
new order, or the smiths, or whoever ?
is it because the back catalogue is so hard to find ?
is it the vocals ?

why doesn't everyone adore this band ?

― piscesboy, Saturday, 26 October 2002 10:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

because everyone sucks. "garlands" is really quite beautiful, probably my favorite for those lingering remnants of post-punk and the birth of their luminous weirdness.

― your null fame (yournullfame), Saturday, 26 October 2002 11:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

Pisces Boy, you are, to coin a well-used phrase, most OTM about "Those Eyes, That Mouth". I always thought it was the Cocteax track that most did it for me.

Btw, on a track on "Victorialand" ( I could never remember which album track was which) does she really sing "Roddy Frame is losing hair" ? It sure sounds like it.

― darren, Saturday, 26 October 2002 12:21 (10 years ago) Permalink

there's a site here -

http://www.mcilwaine12.utvinternet.com/ctuk/lyrics/

with some genuine looking lyrics
(mostly from the later stuff
but god knows where they got them from
as they're not published)
and some not so real looking ones
(4ad era.)
is she really singing
'we'll be soaked and ruddy' on 'pearly dewdrops' drops' ?

still, one actual transcription
by liz confirms after all these years that
the full 'whales tails' lyric *does* actually run

'cim keel makilagh teluxa sulomegh yeilick
vola-vola coco la fulla menag'

i thought as much.

― piscesboy, Saturday, 26 October 2002 13:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

Gotta love randomness. ;-) But yeah, always loved them -- I don't play their albums so much these days having run them into the ground, though I wonder if the rereleases are noticeably worth it? Wonderful band in any event, and Simon Raymonde is one of my secret fave bass players ever, not to mention being a pretty cool producer.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 26 October 2002 13:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

pisces - "Those Eyes, That Mouth" isn't my fave Cocteau Twins song. but it's near enough to the top - yer not alone!

― Paul (scifisoul), Saturday, 26 October 2002 15:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

Delighted to hear that Elizabeth Fraser is releasing a solo album next year, yup :)
An extraordinary, precious beauty.
(and, I think Simon Raymonde an instrumental album)

― DavidM (DavidM), Saturday, 26 October 2002 15:36 (10 years ago) Permalink

As much as I love them, I can't even make it all the way through Garlands. Completely dreadful.

― paul cox (paul cox), Sunday, 27 October 2002 03:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

Curse you people! Now I'm ripping all my Cocteaus CDs to my Jukebox so I can listen to them at work for the next week or so. Yes, even Garlands.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Sunday, 27 October 2002 04:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

I bought my first Cocteaus the other day: 'Treasure' on vinyl, and it's GREBT

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Sunday, 27 October 2002 04:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

Verra good choice, Mr. McD.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 October 2002 05:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

I also got Depeche Mode's 'Construction Time Again' & Gary Numan's 'Telekon'. A rather Raggettesque trio of purchases, I thought.

;)!

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Sunday, 27 October 2002 07:50 (10 years ago) Permalink

'Construction Time Again' is a bit meh in my opinion - DM didn't really get good until 'Black Celebration' shorely.

I've want my absent copy of 'Heaven or Las Vegas' back rather badly recently.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 27 October 2002 08:02 (10 years ago) Permalink

First listen to 'Construction' was very positive. I like all the industrial clangs and stuff, but then with these shiny 80s things it's always only immediate turnoff or immediate turnon, because of the alien surface-rich production.

The big 80s drum sound is the one irksome thing about 'Treasure'.

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Sunday, 27 October 2002 10:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

Coming back to the original question, maybe they aren't as 'loved' by New Order etc because they are just less pop, more ethereal, more of a solitary listening experience. Maybe it just feels like N.O. are more loved because it was something you could DO with your friends. The Smiths, for me at least, were more life-changing because of the lyrics, the posturing, the image you could really enter and take part in. The Cocteaux, for all their beauty - I have a song off Victorialand in my head and it is seriously lovely - were not a collective thing in the same way.

― Daniel (dancity), Sunday, 27 October 2002 12:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

A rather Raggettesque trio of purchases, I thought.

Most wise.

DM didn't really get good until 'Black Celebration' shorely.

Dan Perry to thread and all that. I'll allow you CTA, but Some Great Reward is genius without parallel.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 October 2002 14:47 (10 years ago) Permalink

This is probably not the thread for it, but nonetheless I'll pipe up again and say that I never really got the whole hype about Treasure. Sure, "Ivo" is a pretty cool song, but I thought the whole album was utterly ruined by the heavy-handed production and the cheap-ass drum machine that was bumped up so high in the mix. The earlier material didn't really have that problem, and Victorialand dispensed with the drum machine altogether, so why all the big props for Treasure?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Sunday, 27 October 2002 15:18 (10 years ago) Permalink

Don't get me wrong, I still LIKE it. I just think it's one of their weaker albums.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Sunday, 27 October 2002 15:18 (10 years ago) Permalink

You can no longer complain when I find Godspeed less than wonderful if you are going to spout these heresies. ;-) [My own answer why Treasure is godlike: it's the first time that the Cocteaus fully expanded their sound to create a constantly varied record, and the album is perfectly sequenced, while the individual songs pretty much all work on their own as well.]

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 October 2002 15:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Ned, but Godspeed never had a really shit drum sound pushed so high into the mix. Ranting guys, yeah. But there's something about that drum machine on Treasure that just raises my hackles.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Sunday, 27 October 2002 16:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

I don't know, I guess I just never saw it as a shit drum sound. I actually really like it!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 October 2002 17:20 (10 years ago) Permalink

the remasters should sort that drums-too-loud sound out
somehwhat - by the way they were meant to be
out by now weren't they ?

― piscesboy, Sunday, 27 October 2002 19:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

'Christmassy' is a good way of descibing them, and yes...."Those Eyes, That Mouth" is decidedly swoon-worthy.

My faves, though, remain "the Spangle Maker," "Crushed" and "Summerhead,"....the latter of which can practically induce tears at its sheer gorgeosness.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 27 October 2002 21:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

yes, christmassy sometimes. i played fifty-fifty clown today in my new house. victorialand is the best album, barbarella caves hildenbeutel preisms shit, but fave song could well be...The Spangle Maker (look!!! me and alex in nyc in full agreement!!!, transatlantic beer spluttering keyboard soaker business)

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 27 October 2002 21:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

but 'treasure' has 'donimo' on it, which is probably my favorite cocteau song ever. i like the clearness of everything on the record too, the earlier stuff has an ethereal sheen and the later stuff was just thicker, on treasure all of the beautiful parts are easy to enjoy simultaneously or separately.

― keith (keithmcl), Sunday, 27 October 2002 21:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

heard a couple of things. there was a double Cd comp and victorialand. the latter is nice. they had a good sound but nothing remarkable really.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 October 2002 10:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

Ya, 'domino' is amazing.

And Julio, I don't know what the double cd comp is that you heard, but Victorialand is nowhere near their best album, nor even in their top 5. It does not stand as even a decent indication of their sound on the whole. 'Heaven...' is their best, or at least has had the most staying power for me....give it a spin if you get a chance.

― Trace, Monday, 28 October 2002 20:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

Their best song is the first track on _Milk and Kisses_. It's just perfect.

_Construction Time Again_ is a fantastic album, partially because it's the last chance you get to hear Alan Wilder sing on a DM album and partially because "Everything Counts" and "Love In Itself" are great singles and "Shame" is one of their best songs.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 20:33 (10 years ago) Permalink

Nobody's mentioned Twinlights yet, but its "Rilkean Heart" is unbelievably gorgeous. When Ms. Fraser hits that final high note, I could just collapse. In additional to the forementioned annoying drum machine on their early stuff, I could also do without those Yamaha DX7 chimes that everybody used (a la "Lorelei").

― Ernest P., Monday, 28 October 2002 20:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

But-but-but those chimes are what help MAKE the song!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 October 2002 20:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

''And Julio, I don't know what the double cd comp is that you heard, but Victorialand is nowhere near their best album, nor even in their top 5. It does not stand as even a decent indication of their sound on the whole. 'Heaven...' is their best, or at least has had the most staying power for me....give it a spin if you get a chance.''

Ok then. the comp was reelased on 4AD a couple of years ago. tracks from their career really. again, it was OK but hardly a knockout.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 12:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

This is oh-so MOR of me, but I think my favourite Cocteaus track might be "Alice" from the Stealing Beauty soundtrack, then maybe "The Spanglemaker" and most of Treasure and Heaven Or Las Vegas.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 12:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

It wasn't MOR 15-20 years ago...
And I still don't think it is MOR. The Cocteaus sound is maybe the most original sound I know in pop music. I like Sugar Hiccup a lot, Heaven or Las Vegas being my fave album probably. And I rather like Four Calendar-Cafe. The older stuff sounds a little dated sometimes.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 12:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

Julio, that 2CD set you listened to may have been the BBC sessions album, which is definitely not my favourite of the Cocteaus releases. I'd say you should try a couple more before you give up, because it's definitely worth more listening than the ones you've said so far. (Victorialand is definitely a weird release, some people utterly swear by it as the pinnacle, but I find it a bit too airy most of the time, though other times it sounds perfect.)

Maybe start with Heaven or Las Vegas, which is both the sweetest-sounding release they did (it seems to just ooze sugary vanilla and cherry flavour in some spots) or try something like The Pink Opaque, which is an earlier compilation which still seems to work just fine as an album, and has some of their best tracks, including "Pearly Dewdrops' Drops". Knowing what I know of your tastes, I have a feeling you might actually like Garlands, too, because it's a lot more dissonant and dark.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 14:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

''Julio, that 2CD set you listened to may have been the BBC sessions album, which is definitely not my favourite of the Cocteaus releases.''

yeah, that was it!

''Maybe start with Heaven or Las Vegas, which is both the sweetest-sounding release they did (it seems to just ooze sugary vanilla and cherry flavour in some spots) or try something like The Pink Opaque, which is an earlier compilation which still seems to work just fine as an album, and has some of their best tracks, including "Pearly Dewdrops' Drops". Knowing what I know of your tastes, I have a feeling you might actually like Garlands, too, because it's a lot more dissonant and dark.''

Ok i'll have to try garlands. might pick it up tonight if i'm quick enough.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 16:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

Get _Milk And Kisses_, Julio. It's phenomenal and deeply underrated.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 16:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

And a nicely elegant way to wrap everything up. :-) The accompanying EPs were all pretty great as well.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 16:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

heh. if both garlands and milk and kisses are at bargain prices at selectadisc then i'll pick both. oh yes.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 October 2002 16:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

SWIRLY FOXTROT REVIVE ICEBLINKY FROU-FROU FLAGSTONE SPANGLE

Staving off a pavement-cracking hangover and cursing my job as I woke -- BEFORE THE BABY (this is practically unheard of) this Sunday morning to put in pre-election week double duty here at the Newsdesk, I walked outside to find an unseasonably glorious Autumn day and toggled up ye olde Cocteau Twins on the iPod for a stroll to midtown. In no time at all, my petty complaints and visceral disdain for my fellow man were temporarily put on the back burner of an entirely different stove and I glid down the leaf-strewn, sunsplashed avenues of this fair metropolis as if buoyed by a giggley coterie of silk-winged cherubim and robustly voluptious, flaxen-locked centaurettes.

I honestly cannot think of any other music that can replicate this effect.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 31 October 2004 17:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

My wife and I have drastically different taste, but Cocteau Twins is the one area of common ground we've enjoyed over the years. We danced to "Lazy Calm" off Victorialand at our wedding. :)

I think some of their best work was released on the EPs; I'd encourage anyone who is just starting to explore their work to hunt down the older import "The Pink Opaque" or more recent "Stars and Topsoil" compilations. Or just buy the EP box set. Songs like "Spangle Maker", "Aikea Guinea" and "Pink Orange Red" are some of CT's finest and shouldn't be missed.

― jeffery (jeffery), Sunday, 31 October 2004 22:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

There's an EP box set?

I love the big, ringing sound of the "Love's Easy Tears" ep. "Orange Appled" is one of my top three favourite CT tracks.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 31 October 2004 22:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Somehow I forgot to kiss Sean (re: Treasure), Dan (re: Milk and Kisses) and Alex in NYC (re: Spanglemaker) in this thread. And I must give Alex in NYC a second kiss for obvious reasons.

― Andy K (Andy K), Sunday, 31 October 2004 22:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

There was an EP box set about, what, thirteen years ago? It was lovely...

x-post

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 31 October 2004 22:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

(after a bit of research)
You're right Alex, it was 1991. The cover does look familiar, now that I see it.

An amazing set ... and their best EP's (the "Twinlights"/"Otherness" twinbill) were still to come!

I may have written this on another thread: "Twinlights" and "Otherness", taken together, would be easily the best CT album.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 31 October 2004 22:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

the box set was the complete 4AD non-album trax.
they even threw on a melody maker give-away comp track and the lonely as an eyesore lp tune too. also there were 2 unreleased things.

*caution*!! the japanese version (which has the cds in actual
jewel cases as opposed to cd-single cases) is the one u want,
but the trax are the same.

there's still one on the shelf in KINGBEE RECORDS manchester
(about half a mile from my house).

― piscesboy, Monday, 1 November 2004 12:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

*caution*!! the japanese version (which has the cds in actual
jewel cases as opposed to cd-single cases) is the one u want,
but the trax are the same.

the US version was like this as well. Is there a UK version that is different? Is the box thinner?

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 16:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

The two unreleased things - if memory serves - were "Dials" (from around 1990) and the instrumental version of "Oomingmak" from Victorialand which plays over the credits on the Lonely Is An Eyesore video compilation. I think these tracks were on a 10th (9th?) CD-single in that box along with "The High Monkey Monk" off the MM comp and "Crushed" from LIAE.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 1 November 2004 17:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

NB: the box set was purely the 4AD singles and EPs - some rarities didn't make it ("Millimillenary" springs to mind, from a 1985 NME single, but that's on The Pink Opaque, I guess).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 1 November 2004 17:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

the big loss is the christmas single (snow), which came out afterward and is now totally impossible to get

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 17:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Is it impossible to get now? I have it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 17:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think I might sell it. One going for $20 on eBay, I see.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 1 November 2004 17:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

it's not as rare as it once was. it got reprinted at some point

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 17:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

eh? what?? SNOW??!! what's that? never fckng heard of it!

you don't mean the frosty the snowman thing right?
heckfire, well i consider myself a cocteaus peak-period trainspotter
but that's foxed me. tell u what the NME COMPELTE DISCOGRAPHY from 1993, which had EVERYTHING listed on it (dates, prices, trax, cat numbers) never mentioned anything called 'SNOW'.

enlighten me please alex, kyle et al.

― piscesboy, Monday, 1 November 2004 17:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

1993 two song single. "Frosty" and "Winter Wonderland." The latter has ended up on a couple of multiartist Xmas comps, I had the former through Volume

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 1 November 2004 17:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah, frost the snowman, for some reason I thought the name of the single was just "snow"

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 18:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

http://www.cocteautwins.com/html/discography/discog_27.html

it was called Snow

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 18:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

RE: Snow EP, you can expect to pay around $40-$50 on eBay for this one. It's really for completists only.

― jeffery (jeffery), Monday, 1 November 2004 18:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

oh riiiiight. panic over. heard that.

― piscesboy, Monday, 1 November 2004 18:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

(x-post to Kyle) I have the slimline cd box set version, which has wiggle room, so I'd guess the box is the same size. (x-post again) Why the recommendation for the JPN version? Generally better sound? More art?

― Chris Hill (Chris Hill), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think it was because the cases take up the whole box

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

Wow.$40-50 bucks? Goddamn. I mean, it's okay, but I wouldn't pay that much for it (not that I'm selling it, mind you).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think it sold for more than that new though

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 20:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

oh wait you were talking about the Snow single duh!

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 1 November 2004 20:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

I just want to add that everyone who hasn't yet should get The Moon And The Melodies. Harold Budd's instrumentals can get a bit long but the 4 tracks on which Liz Fraser sings are so perfect I think they should have been re-released as an EP. 1986 was really an amazing time for them with TMATM, Love's Easy Tears, Victorialand, and "Crushed" all coming out that year.

― Seb (Seb), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 04:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

RILKEAN HEART and S. CARTER are my wake-up songs these days. What is Liz Fraser's solo thing like?

― LeCoq (LeCoq), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 05:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

Like Ned, I pulled out The Cocteau Twins (specifically Treasure) again this afternoon in order to comfort myself in the face of two disastrous elections (in many ways the US election is like an eerie exact repeat of the Australian one from last month) - and suddenly determined that I want much more of this group's stuff. I saw Head Over Heels second hand the other day - convince me to buy it please.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 10:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

S. Carruthers totally OTM about 'Treasure' upthread. That drum machine is awful. It's fine on the more metallic early stuff, but when they got more soft and layered Guthrie needed another drum sound/treatment altogether. I'm fine with it from BBN onwards.

One of the joys of the BBC album is that Guthrie didn't produce it.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 12:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

I saw Head Over Heels second hand the other day - convince me to buy it please.

Oh, definitely. It's still a transition album as such, and consisted only of Guthrie and Fraser, Raymonde hadn't joined yet. But it's got some absolutely crackerjack numbers, and they also do a few things throughout that they didn't try much again (the overt jazz-scat nods on "Multifoiled," for instance). Still had a lot of early hyperdourness but was channeled into different directions -- the glowering guitar and doom beats on "When Mama Was Moth" and then the explosion/cascade of the concluding "Musette and Drums," which is a monster and a half.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

(And it was actually the album I was listening to last night!)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

I glid down the leaf-strewn, sunsplashed avenues of this fair metropolis as if buoyed by a giggley coterie of silk-winged cherubim and robustly voluptious, flaxen-locked centaurettes. Then I overheard Beat Happening from a passing invalid's walkman and beat him up.

-- Alex in NYC (vassif...), November 1st, 2004 7:11 PM. (vassifer) (later)

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Damn right.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 15:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

I got Head Over Heels/Sunburst & Snowblind - it's good! Though I'm surprised how comparatively conventional Liz sounds. Treasure is the earliest I've otherwise got, and her vocals are so alien there I'd assumed they had to start from some basic level of alienness which Head Over Heels falls short of. "Falls short" is wrong though; I actually like how this album sounds more like a really lush, atmospheric post-punk album rather than being totally unplaceable. The guitar is so heavy! The whole thing reminds me a lot of The Cure's Disintegration actually.

There's a big "BUT" however, which is that the sound on this pre-remaster CD is absolutely atrocious, it sounds like it was recorded using a dictaphone from three rooms down the hall. I suspect this may be a big barrier to my enjoyment, as it certainly clouds a lot of the sonic intricacies at work. My copy of Treasure sounds startingly clear by comparison.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 7 November 2004 00:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

Huh, that's sorta funny, I have that very same pre-remaster CD and I don't mind the sound on it at all! (Or Treasure, which is similarly pre-remaster.) Then again I've been listening to it for, y'know, 15 years. ;-)

It occurred to me that a good band doing a version of "Musette and Drums" via a huge sound system would be genius.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 November 2004 01:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Twinlights" and "Otherness", taken together, would be easily the best CT album.

i almost agree, but can't completely because of the overwhelming sadness (to my ears anyway) on those eps. they are wonderful though. and quite a solid package together too. i wrote a random phone number on the case to "twinlights" and i curse that damn number everytime i look at the case.

every once in awhile i'll pull out blue bell knoll or four calendar cafe and bliss out. "spanglemaker" is my favorite though. i can't imagine treasure without those big fake drums either.

― tricky (disco stu), Sunday, 7 November 2004 01:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

"spanglemaker" is my favorite though.

The whole EP is perhaps a perfect summation of that period of the band, but yeah, the song itself...man. A friend, many years ago, said she envisioned the song almost like a green slip of material, a scarf or something silken, twirling through a dark cavern that suddenly at the end came forward and enveloped you and took you somewhere else. It was a striking and strictly visual metaphor for the song that has never left me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 November 2004 02:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

Getting excited now.

And there's no new album to promote so that leaves the set lists wiiiiiiide open.

http://www.nme.com/news/111427.htm

― piscesboy, Thursday, 17 February 2005 12:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

i'd like to see them. i've only recently begun to really listen.

― Alienus Quam Reproba (blueski), Thursday, 17 February 2005 12:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

The drummachine's my fav thing about "Treasure". Well, that and Simon turning up.

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

it's going to be wall to wall 'treasure' on these gigs i reckon.
'ivo' and 'lorelei' = a dead cert.

― piscesboy, Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

Perhaps they will play in New Zealand. Perhaps not.

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 17 February 2005 13:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

Hmmm, Heaven or Las Vegas sounds very good tonight.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 06:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

still the only cd of theirs i own. haven't listened to it in years but the title track alone would make me never want to relinquish it.

― joseph (joseph), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 06:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Hmmm, Heaven or Las Vegas sounds very good tonight.
-- Ned Raggett (ne...), November 16th, 2005

..and last night.

so the box set then. in february it's coming out in 2 seperate volumes (for like, a tenner each) usefully bisecting their career into 'the amazing 4ad bits 82 - 90' and 'the boring fontana biot onwards'. which is very nice.

― piscesboy, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

i only have heaven or las vegas and four-calendar cafe. i tend to prefer the latter despite the overwhelming critical preference for the former. the closer on f-c c is really blissful

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 1 February 2007 12:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yes I've just fallen for them again. Listened to Treasure again last week at fiancee's prompting and even though after more than 22 years I thought I knew the record inside out, now it sounds like a completely new record.

Their music was such an important part of my old life (which is why I've been reluctant to write much about them) and for years I couldn't listen to them - it was too painful - but now, in my new life, I can.

Now that's magic.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 1 February 2007 12:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

Critical preference is almost always gonna slant toward the earlier, more vibrant Twins -- like back toward a little bit of grit and struggle in the sound, back when they're really pushing and taking off into beauty, instead of just hopping straight into the hot cozy bath -- but the more time goes by, the more that later stuff sounds great and mysterious on its own, and not just like some kind of comedown / trailoff. I mean, I still prefer the part of their career where they sound like they're in a basement trying to be beautiful (and magically succeeding) -- like Treasure and such -- but the very end-period stuff (FCC and beyond) sounds better to me every time I go back to it. (I think, at the time, that FCC was the last Cocteaus album I dug without worrying that they were going a bit milky, and actually, at the time, I think I liked its direction a lot.)

Charlie, I recommend following your Cocteau purchases in one direction or the other -- I mean, I'd push like Treasure or at least Blue Bell Knoll on you, but if you want to head in their hot-milky-bath direction, start the other way!

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 1 February 2007 13:53 (6 years ago) Permalink

still victorialand for me, you can play it at both speeds!

― Friendly Tree (688), Thursday, 1 February 2007 13:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

cheers for the advice, nabisco

having just uncovered this powerful band quite recently, i'm suddenly confronted with the delightful chore of navigating their back catalogue, and i find myself treading a little carefully so as to not overdose on all the riches at once. i think i'll go with 'treasure' next, and then take it step by step from there. :)

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

I find the early stuff a bit too gothy but Moon and The Melodies, Heaven or Las Vegas, Bluebell Knoll or Victorialand all get spun still fairly regularly. For some reason they always seem to be a band I listen to in the Spring or Autumn more. But that's probably abother thread in its own right.

― Treblekicker (treblekicker), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Charlie, if you want to invest in a crash course in the discography, you can always get the new four-disc EP collection, which is pretty great -- you'll get an overview of the whole career, and still have the actual albums to dip into at whatever pace you like.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm jealous of people who are just now discovering bands like the Cocteaus, and have that whole catalogue in front of them to dive into...I mean, how awesome would it be to have bits of your musical memory erased so that so can experience that "my god *this* is exactly what I want to hear right now!" feeling over and over again?...you know, like electroshock therapy, but without the bad stuff...

― hank (hank s), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

that's an interesting idea. if you had entire bands erased from your memory, i wonder how many of those same bands you'd come across again on an intimate level.

i'll suss out that ep. collection tomorrow i think. particularly since the material is strong.

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 1 February 2007 14:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

i know it's been said many times many ways but my god what a band.

― piscesx, Wednesday, 20 August 2008 02:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

You betcha.

― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Wednesday, 20 August 2008 04:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

damn I haven't listened to the Cocteau Twins in like a year now, time for another obsessed dive

― Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 20 August 2008 04:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm not as big a fan as many around here, but some of their singles -- e.g., Pearly-Dewdrops' Drops -- are near perfect pop songs.

― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 20 August 2008 04:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

crikey (no sadly not a reunion before anyone gets their hopes up)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/may/01/cocteau-twins-elizabeth-fraser-meltdown

― piscesx, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

Shitting kittens!

interesting phrase!

― suburban buttshaven cannibal (electricsound), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Fraser has quietly assembled almost an album's worth of new material, which will form the basis of a 75-minute set with a band including Reece, multi-instrumentalist Thighspaulsandra from experimental band Coil and ex-Spiritualized bassist Sean Cook. Ex-Genesis guitarist Steve Hackett may also feature.

I demand a recording of this as soon as this set is performed.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, okay, that url made me think the story was about something altogether unpleasant. But good on her!

― O Aquaman (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

Meanwhile in the last sentence...

Also appearing at Meltdown will be Marc Almond, Diamanda Galas and Laurie Anderson, with other major names still to be announced

Damn.. This might be something to go to...

― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

Jesus crow. I just saw this pop up on the 4ad FB group and Im all a fluster. If I could rely on it to actually HAPPEN I would be going into hock for tickets to the UK right now, but I cant risk her piking.

― fix it with like some music glue (Trayce), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 10:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

And Steve Hackett! wtf. I have to tell my ex, he is going to go mental.

― fix it with like some music glue (Trayce), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 10:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

If I could rely on it to actually HAPPEN I would be going into hock for tickets to the UK right now, but I cant risk her piking

It'll happen. Contracts and all that will have been signed. Plus, from the interview she sounds pretty upbeat about it.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 11:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'd say "hooray" because it's not a 'reunion'

Because a 'reunion' is one gig then everyone disappears.

Whereas this seems like a new album/gig, so more likely a beginning of something.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 11:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

Shitting kittens!
interesting phrase!
― suburban buttshaven cannibal (electricsound), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:51 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

t'was the original title of "Sugar Hiccup" you know..

― Mark G, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 11:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

nice piece with Robin from a Xmas special edition of MOJO last year.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6791081375_2d669f5e8a_o.jpg

― piscesx, Tuesday, 26 June 2012 21:54 (10 months ago) Permalink

just got tickets to the Bath gig

― kinder, Tuesday, 26 June 2012 22:36 (10 months ago) Permalink

Are you saying they're doing a reunion show??

― LeRooLeRoo, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 21:58 (10 months ago) Permalink

sorry, no, just Liz

― kinder, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 22:32 (10 months ago) Permalink

yeah she might do a few CT tracks it looks like. short gig otherwise i'd wager.

― piscesx, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 23:14 (10 months ago) Permalink

Thanks for posting the Mojo piece.

My Bloody Valentine? They were just another little indie band to begin with. Lush interested me more because they could actually write songs and had ideas.

He sounds like he's too insecure to admit how good My Bloody Valentine are. Which - if the case - is sad, considering how satisfied he should be with his own body of work. It wouldn't diminish his band in any way. Then again, maybe that mix of insecurity and competitiveness helped him reach the heights he did with CT?...

The only Cocteaus records that make me cringe are the Twinlights and Otherness EPs (from 1995). Twinlights is acoustic and has violins and shite like that, and Otherness is pointless remixes.

I kind of agree with him about Twinlights; I think the instrumentation wasn't up to par. An intriguing exercise - I don't think it's a failure, by any means... But I consider the Otherness EP to be an essential final jewel in their crown. Just listen to the direction that that EP took their live set in; it was yet another breathtaking step in their evolution.

Example 1: The way it drops out at around 3:20 and resurfaces in remix form is a thing of beauty.

Example 2: Definitely NOT a pointless remix.

― azaera, Thursday, 28 June 2012 06:40 (10 months ago) Permalink

Oops, video #2 is supposed to be this:

― azaera, Thursday, 28 June 2012 06:41 (10 months ago) Permalink

Argh. Technical ineptitude. Sorry. It's supposed to be a video of Aloysius live from 1996. Definitely worth checking out if you haven't already done so.

― azaera, Thursday, 28 June 2012 06:43 (10 months ago) Permalink

He sounds like he's too insecure to admit how good My Bloody Valentine are. Which - if the case - is sad, considering how satisfied he should be with his own body of work. It wouldn't diminish his band in any way. Then again, maybe that mix of insecurity and competitiveness helped him reach the heights he did with CT?...

No, it's because RG was one of that group of people who actually remember MBV as this shambolic live band stumbling round the London scene in the mid to late 80s. As opposed to people who just heard these amazing records coming out of nowhere and presumed they were always that brilliant.

(And I say that as someone who was part of that latter group. But I know quite a few people who remember MBV as an early band, and their later success was, shall we say, unexpected.)

― White Chocolate Cheesecake, Thursday, 28 June 2012 08:33 (10 months ago) Permalink

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