http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/03/31/mad-men-three-seasons/
'Mad Men' is a done deal! AMC drama is renewed with Matthew Weiner on boardby James HibberdCategories: Mad Men, Television, TV Biz
Don Draper might make it to the 1970s after all. After a protracted standoff, AMC, Lionsgate and Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner have reached an agreement for seasons five and six of the Emmy-winning drama.
Weiner, who will return as showrunner, has also signed a new long-term deal with Lionsgate. As a result of the negotiations, however, season five isn’t expected to air until March of next year.
Weiner signed a deal that’s worth about $10 million per year. The creator compromised slightly on issue of the show’s running time, agreeing to the show running two minutes shorter in all epiosdes (45 minutes) when on AMC except the fifth season’s premiere and finale (47) — with an option for Weiner to turn in 47-minute episodes for other platforms like VOD and DVD. The main cast is signed on for two more season and no more cuts are expected there.
The deal was originally supposed to be for three seasons, but the cast isn’t yet signed for a seventh season so that’s being tabled for the time being. But everybody thinks that now that Weiner is on board, a seventh season will happen. Weiner is also telling media outlets that the seventh season will be the final one for the show.
“I want to thank all of our wonderful fans for their support,” Weiner said in a statement. “I also want to thank AMC and Lionsgate for agreeing to support the artistic freedom of myself, the cast and the crew so that we can continue to make the show exactly as we have from the beginning. I’m excited to get started on the next chapter of our story.”
“AMC’s original programming began with a mission to create bold storytelling of the highest quality, and Mad Men was the perfect expression of that commitment,” Charlie Collier, president of AMC, said in a statement. “We’ve been proud to support this show from the day we read Matt’s ground-breaking pilot script and have loved building it with Matt and Lionsgate into the cultural phenomenon it has become. For everyone involved in the show and its passionate fans, we are thrilled to announce that the series will continue on AMC under the exceptional vision of Matt Weiner.”
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 1 April 2011 03:59 (twelve years ago) link
Keep sleeping, Peggy and Don. You won't be back on until next year.
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8nrxqzCNl1qzzl73o1_500.jpg
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 1 April 2011 04:18 (twelve years ago) link
shit, that's a while. are there other examples of tv shows w/ prolonged waits like this? do they do anything in regards of plot to compensate for how much they expect their audience to forget things?
― kelpolaris, Friday, 1 April 2011 04:31 (twelve years ago) link
I never watched the Sopranos, but wasn't there a crazy long delay between two seasons once? And then they split the season in two parts? My recollection is hazy.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 1 April 2011 04:39 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, there was at least a year and a half. same with The Wire, actually.
― Gukbe, Friday, 1 April 2011 04:39 (twelve years ago) link
Hmmm, seven seasons might be a bit much.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Friday, 1 April 2011 21:01 (twelve years ago) link
all shows should end at 5 seasons
― Godspeed HOOS! Black Steendriver (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 1 April 2011 21:05 (twelve years ago) link
will people really forget more in the extra 5 months or whatever? i gues they expect everyone to buy the dvds and re-watch the season.
― mizzell, Friday, 1 April 2011 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
they always seem to show the previous season in reruns prior to the start of the new season.
― Jaq, Friday, 1 April 2011 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
I've been waiting since I heard that the show was only supposed to last five seasons, I was going to ride out the network run until it was over and watch through Netflix. Now that it's running for seven seasons I'm not so sure that I care because shows tend to dip in quality after S5 anyway.
― Simpsons Christmas Boogie (MintIce), Sunday, 3 April 2011 00:02 (twelve years ago) link
I've completely forgotten what happened in those four seasons
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 02:49 (twelve years ago) link
thank goodness its all on netflix streaming now
i just started watching on netflix. can you get cancer from watching people smoke all the time? i wish it focussed more on advertising and less on sex and smoking. not sure it's worth watching episode 3. women will be treated poorly, men will smoke inside and race relations will be tense. please tell me those themes aren't the main themes for the rest of the show.
― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:40 (twelve years ago) link
no, there's also the terrible parenting theme!
― Jaq, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:43 (twelve years ago) link
oh yeah, episode 2 some little girl is playing in a plastic bag. there's too many good shows to devote 50 more hours to this.
― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:46 (twelve years ago) link
okay!
― max, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:46 (twelve years ago) link
You're shaking my foundations brotherlovesdub
― Number None, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:48 (twelve years ago) link
I am pretty sure that I have never known anyone who watched, say, all of season 1 of Mad Men and then lost interest. People either find it deeply unpleasant based on the first couple episodes, or they are fans.
― (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (silby), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:51 (twelve years ago) link
they do tone down the lol 60s stuff after a while
― sea jasper, a meteor, rose quartz and quartz (reddening), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:52 (twelve years ago) link
except for like the times when they just pander to it, gloriously
― (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (silby), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:53 (twelve years ago) link
brotherlovesdub: Virtually every mad men thread ever is peppered with new watchers coming in and (justifiably) complaining about the lol60s shit. That stuff goes away, though, so stick it out until the end of the season and see how you feel. It's a great drama. You won't be disappointed. There really aren't many shows better than this at the moment.
― Gukbe, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:54 (twelve years ago) link
ad agency, marital infidelity, father hits his grown son with a cane iirc
― sea jasper, a meteor, rose quartz and quartz (reddening), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:55 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, i meant what gubke said
― Number None, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:56 (twelve years ago) link
lol I totally forgot about the cane
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 03:59 (twelve years ago) link
gets way better after the first few episodes. then season 2 drags a bit. then it gets all time great TV for seasons 3 and 4 imo.
― the wheelie king (wk), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 04:03 (twelve years ago) link
Just watched episode three. Think I'll keep going. I just want the women to triumph over the men and for Draper to get killed/humiliated/die of cancer. I guess he's the star so that won't happen. He's scum though. Guess I should check out the other Mad Men threads.
― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 05:46 (twelve years ago) link
I watched the first 3 seasons and 2-3 episodes of the 4th season and then lost interest
― iatee, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 05:49 (twelve years ago) link
haha yeah was just going to post that i checked out somewhere around the middle of season 3
idk why im reading this either but yknow
― Monstrous TumTum (Lamp), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 05:53 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I mean I don't hateee mad men...I like the *idea*, I like the lol60s shit...but it's just toooooo slowwwww and repetitive for me and I realized I was pretty much forcing myself to sit through every new episode.
anyway I have no interest in trolling this thread.
― iatee, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 06:04 (twelve years ago) link
Season three is the worst one IMO. Loved season four.
But to any newbies: When I started watching I thought it was merely interesting until about halfway through the first season, then I realised I love it. Persevere, watch it in order, it's a slow burner.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 07:31 (twelve years ago) link
i find myself thinking of that NYRB crit of it whenever i think of this recently, maybe because it charged the show with being soap opera-ish & i have reduced don draper to being a moody, glowering, tall dark handsome soap opera figure
― sweatpants life trajectory (schlump), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 08:35 (twelve years ago) link
i like this show but i kind of dont miss it
― max, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 12:38 (twelve years ago) link
good riddance to agreeable television drama
― sweatpants life trajectory (schlump), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 12:39 (twelve years ago) link
Man, Sally is going to look like she's 20 when it comes on again.
― *tera, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 14:15 (twelve years ago) link
Well, they've already had her masturbating, so she is growing up. S5 is shooting now, right?
― Mucho! Macho! Honcho!: Turn Off The Dark (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
yep.
― (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (silby), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
Since season 4 was 1964-65, I would think season 5 should be around 1967-68...?
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
i would've thought they'd try to go a little slower than that, but that's not based on/might be contrary to whatever's been customary until now. like i woulda thought 66/67. it depends how long the guy envisions it living on for i guess?
― sweatpants life trajectory (schlump), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
I missed one episode last season, the one where don and peggy get drunk together. My gf summed it up for me at the time so I was able to watch the rest of the eps during the season, and when I watched it for the first time a few days ago, it was alright, like I could see that the only reason I really watched all the eps was momentum
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
I met weiner once at the beverly hills hotel, kinda surreal because I was lost and out on the pool deck area when it happened
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:25 (twelve years ago) link
wth
― Simon H., Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:25 (twelve years ago) link
xp feel free to post that in the posts w/o context thread
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:26 (twelve years ago) link
this show is pretty great when you can watch 2-3 eps at a time and pretty excruciating on a week to week basis. like, the story arc to season 4 is pretty good (if maddening and depressing) but also pretty annoying when its coming in drips and drabs.
― ryan, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:29 (twelve years ago) link
I know what you mean about momentum, but I also think "The Suitcase" was the best episode of the season!
― jaymc, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
^ yeah, all-time ep right there
― (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (silby), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:39 (twelve years ago) link
it was a really good episode compared to other eps, and I liked it somewhat, and thought there were brilliant parts with brilliant bits of acting, but a lot of the episode, perhaps more than others, I don't know at this point because I haven't seen the show in a while, was don yelling at peggy for work related reasons, and when I was watching it, I guess, because I was removed from the mad men world, I couldn't help but think that I was glad I wasn't exposed to its world as much
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 17:40 (twelve years ago) link
i saw a little girl out to dinner with her family at a mexican restaurant last week that was a dead-ringer for sally. it was so uncanny i almost said something to the parents but i told myself to forget it and finish my nachos.
― (gr8080), Thursday, 18 August 2011 00:11 (twelve years ago) link
"hey uh I dunno if you know this but your daughter looks a lot like a child star that some nerds on the internet really can't wait to see grow up into a teenager!"
― (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (silby), Thursday, 18 August 2011 00:16 (twelve years ago) link
yeah nachos was probably the better move
FYI I recommend that everyone into this show watch the movie version of "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying" with Robert Morse
― satisfying punishment for that thing he said about lesbians (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 22 August 2011 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
LOL
― ¯\(°_o)/¯ (Nicole), Monday, 22 August 2011 20:21 (twelve years ago) link
hahahahaha
― (gr8080), Monday, 22 August 2011 20:28 (twelve years ago) link
hahaha burn
― Vaginalogue Bubblebath (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 22 August 2011 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, the parallels are pretty funny. Morse is great in The Loved One too. Mad Men also reminds me of The Sweet Smell of Success.
― the wheelie king (wk), Monday, 22 August 2011 22:41 (twelve years ago) link
predictions on the degree to which dialogue this season will be "on the nose"?
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Saturday, 27 August 2011 00:38 (twelve years ago) link
I loved it when Mad Men referenced The Apartment (season and episode escapes me). In season four Roger is on the phone speaking to a Louise about a Larry...the Tate's no doubt, finally acknowledging the comparison's to Bewitched.
― *tera, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 01:42 (twelve years ago) link
Sorry about that pesky apostrophe.....blush.
― *tera, Tuesday, 30 August 2011 01:43 (twelve years ago) link
The Apartment ref was in the first season, near the end I think. Joan was chewing Roger out about using women and told him he should see the movie and change his tune.
― Status Update...in my Seether? (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 01:50 (twelve years ago) link
...and to complete the circle, David White played both Mr. Tate on "Bewitched" and Mr. Eichelberger in The Apartment.
― Status Update...in my Seether? (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 02:03 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, this is pretty much my experience too. Basically I was watching it to bask in the glory of Joan and gradually got into the surrounding plotlines.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 03:34 (twelve years ago) link
R u one of those ppl who sits around watching AMC dramas all nite, tweeting abt how AMAZEBALLS they are?
― HOOSy woosies (history mayne), Tuesday, 30 August 2011 08:37 (twelve years ago) link
Walked by a Banana Republic tonight. The big poster in the window asked me if I am a Betty.
― Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 02:08 (twelve years ago) link
Well?
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 02:30 (twelve years ago) link
I don't really think there's an answer. I think the significance is in asking the question.
― Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 02:39 (twelve years ago) link
uch, you're such a Betty.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 02:42 (twelve years ago) link
Keep getting BR MM collection ads in my FB feed ATM.
That's a lot of abbreviations.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 03:05 (twelve years ago) link
Do they have a "Are You A Pete?" poster
― Number None, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 12:18 (twelve years ago) link
Banana republic really on the cutting edge with this mad men collection
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=66393
― Aerosol, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 14:16 (twelve years ago) link
So when does this actually start?
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 03:05 (twelve years ago) link
via wiki: "The fifth season is scheduled to premiere on March 16, 2012."
crap, I was hoping it was sooner :(
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 03:07 (twelve years ago) link
can't wait! i don't remember exactly when it's supposed to start, but sometime this Spring, right? if only there was an internet to help determine the answer!
― your pain is probably equal (Z S), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 03:11 (twelve years ago) link
march 2012, sez some place on the internet
― your pain is probably equal (Z S), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 03:12 (twelve years ago) link
I can wait. I think.
― tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 04:30 (twelve years ago) link
SPOILER i hear don draper broods a lot next season SPOILER
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 05:04 (twelve years ago) link
read "breeds" at first
― tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 05:23 (twelve years ago) link
It has been off the air so long that I barely remember what even happened last season. It's hard to get excited about it.
― Nicole, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
^^^
I assume this season will begin in 1975, it feels like they've been gone so long
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
im sorta not looking forward to this. so sick of don and his bullshit. would be really excited if the next season was peggy-only
― max, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
I'm hoping for a mid-70s setting. I feel like anything 1966-1969 will have inevitable stretches of crushing predictability.
(cue "White Rabbit")
― Let A Man Come In And Do The Cop Porn (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 16:39 (twelve years ago) link
it'll be awesome, i'm pretty sure, but yeah, i'm not exactly salivating. it seemed to end on a queasy, foreboding 'happy ending' for don, and i'm not desperate to see the whole miserable second marriage unravel.
― Where Is Reason? (stevie), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 17:09 (twelve years ago) link
eh when it comes back he'll be divorced again already. and it'll be the year 2030.
― sunn :o))) (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 21:53 (twelve years ago) link
i wonder if he's quit smoking...
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 22:05 (twelve years ago) link
march 25.
― reconstituted pork offal slurry (get bent), Tuesday, 10 January 2012 03:07 (twelve years ago) link
Enough time to rewatch S4.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Wednesday, 11 January 2012 00:01 (twelve years ago) link
season premiere will be two hours!
― choucrüt (get bent), Sunday, 15 January 2012 01:20 (twelve years ago) link
Jesus. Not sure how I feel about that.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Sunday, 15 January 2012 02:32 (twelve years ago) link
me neither, but i will watch every last minute of it.
― choucrüt (get bent), Sunday, 15 January 2012 02:36 (twelve years ago) link
no skip the last minute
― tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Sunday, 15 January 2012 15:19 (twelve years ago) link
The last minute will obviously be Don looking out of a window with a deeply furrowed brow.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Sunday, 15 January 2012 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
It's still my theory that the show's focus will shift from Don to Peggy by the end of its run, so I'm expecting that to really begin happening this season. *crosses fingers*
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 15 January 2012 18:04 (twelve years ago) link
the first 45 minutes will a recap of the last 4 seasons because everyone forgot
― your pain is probably equal (Z S), Sunday, 15 January 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
last time on Mad Men
"wow don congratulations on your wedding. who is your bride?"
"oh uh. i forget her name"
― Mordy, Sunday, 15 January 2012 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:04 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
...I see so little reason for this..??
― NO NUTRITIONAL CONTENT (kelpolaris), Sunday, 15 January 2012 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
cos Don is super boring
― Number None, Sunday, 15 January 2012 19:42 (twelve years ago) link
for us, maybe. for so much of the rest of the viewing public that watches this show it almost needs a personal qualifier on my part that he's the main dig.
― NO NUTRITIONAL CONTENT (kelpolaris), Sunday, 15 January 2012 19:50 (twelve years ago) link
i love don.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Sunday, 15 January 2012 19:51 (twelve years ago) link
http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/crying-draper.jpg
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Sunday, 15 January 2012 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
i don't know. i just find *any* of the characters as continually interesting as don, even if he is predictable. i'm sort of past the point of being fascinated by don's actions and more look to how shit will all end up for him. i know he's gonna continually make some bad choices, and i think the writers here are smart enough - e.g., not 19yr old creative writing class depravists - that they wouldn't end the series on some woefully awful note, like him offing himself or whatevs. i don't know. at least i'd like to think it's beyond that.
― NO NUTRITIONAL CONTENT (kelpolaris), Sunday, 15 January 2012 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
the series should end with don faking his death and subsequently wandering the earth helping people out & going on adventures. kinda like the hulk. "you wouldn't like me when i'm...mad"
― Lana Ballantine (latebloomer), Monday, 16 January 2012 09:05 (twelve years ago) link
amc confirmed that s5 is set in may 2003
― quick brown fox triangle (schlump), Monday, 16 January 2012 10:10 (twelve years ago) link
it follows don and peggy's grandchildren as they team up to solve mysteries
― Mordy, Monday, 16 January 2012 13:26 (twelve years ago) link
I think the gap has been too long for me. I tried reading episode summaries of the last series and had to think far too much to remind myself who some of the characters were.
― Sugary pee is not normal (aldo), Monday, 16 January 2012 15:03 (twelve years ago) link
Is there a reason why the gap has been soooo long?
― Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Monday, 16 January 2012 15:10 (twelve years ago) link
some of the sopranos gaps were this long
― Mordy, Monday, 16 January 2012 15:12 (twelve years ago) link
Don't really understand how this level of ennui has set in really. Still looking forward to this.
― Matt DC, Monday, 16 January 2012 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
i don't think the ennui is entirely from the gap between seasons but more from how lethargic + disappointing the last season was
― Mordy, Monday, 16 January 2012 16:00 (twelve years ago) link
Perhaps we're due for another good one (1, 3, 5...)
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 16 January 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
S4 > S3.
― Matt DC, Monday, 16 January 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
I really liked the last season. Certainly better than 3.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Monday, 16 January 2012 16:05 (twelve years ago) link
It was probably the funniest season, for a start.
Which had the lawnmower and which had the dead assistant?
― Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Monday, 16 January 2012 16:07 (twelve years ago) link
The breakdown of Don & Betty's marriage was kind of necessary but until it actually happened it was making for some pretty slow, dull and miserable TV. S3 only really hit its stride in the last two or three episodes, before that there didn't seem to be much actually happening.
S4 had some badly-cast characters but was way better paced plotwise, and had that amazing Don and Peggy episode. Also it brought the lols.
― Matt DC, Monday, 16 January 2012 16:08 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe I'm confusing the whole of S3 with the very end of S3 (which was great). I agree that S4 was enjoyable for the most part, but I'm a nerd and look for number-related trends. :)
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 16 January 2012 16:10 (twelve years ago) link
i think S3 had the marriage ending and the lawn mower and the JFK assassination and the gang getting back together to start the new company right? that was jampacked with goodness. S4 had... Betty's new husband? Don dating that secretary? Uh - lots of Don being depressed? And the one suitcase episode w/ Peggy. (Oh, and also Peggy peeking over the wall.)
― Mordy, Monday, 16 January 2012 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, I remember S3 with much more fondness than S4.
― dor Dumbeddownball (Eric H.), Monday, 16 January 2012 16:31 (twelve years ago) link
i think S3 had the marriage ending and the lawn mower and the JFK assassination and the gang getting back together to start the new company right?
Pretty much all in the last two episodes.
― Matt DC, Monday, 16 January 2012 16:32 (twelve years ago) link
Sal also got fired in S3.
― dor Dumbeddownball (Eric H.), Monday, 16 January 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
S3 was also when Joan left to get married, and Pete found her working at a department store.
Also: Peggy fucks Duck.
― Lady Writer, Male Seether (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 16 January 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
The last episode of S3 is terrific.
― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Monday, 16 January 2012 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
Also Re:Sal & S3-The episode where he and Don go to Baltimore and Don discovers Sal's secret.
This episode also pretty much invented "Pan Am" on ABC.
― Lady Writer, Male Seether (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 16 January 2012 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
Also, um, Don finally comes clean to Betty about Dick Whitman.
― dor Dumbeddownball (Eric H.), Monday, 16 January 2012 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
Imma have to watch S3 again.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 16 January 2012 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
^^ I don't think there has been a series before that I have loved but that I keep forgetting the plotlines of. Feel like I have to rewatch the whole series
― I certainly wouldn't have, but hey. (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 16 January 2012 20:56 (twelve years ago) link
starting next week i am rewatching all four seasons with my housemate (who has never seen it). interesting times.
― caek, Monday, 16 January 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
lotta first world problems itt
― ⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 02:45 (twelve years ago) link
well, the show's about ad execs
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 02:58 (twelve years ago) link
"Saturday Review Whites"-Whiney's Grandpa
― Lady Writer, Male Seether (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 03:15 (twelve years ago) link
don sucks
more joan and peggy getting along
― the most astonishing writer on ilx (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 05:39 (twelve years ago) link
^^^^
― tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 16:00 (twelve years ago) link
Slightly weirded out to realise that Pete and Peggy will only be in their early-to-mid-40s by the time the 80s kick in, conceivably still working in agencies with Reagan in the White House.
(And amoral dicks like Don Draper running the world by that point obviously)
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 17 January 2012 16:05 (twelve years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P9dnbByZkw8/TxVzH1gNAKI/AAAAAAAAQZc/TYKIEFgmohM/s1600/MadMenTeaser.jpg
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 16:21 (twelve years ago) link
that is perfect
― The Brainwasher, Tuesday, 17 January 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
S3 > S4 for sure, the workplace/home-life balance was way out of whack for a lot of the latter for me.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 17 January 2012 18:44 (twelve years ago) link
love the phone both!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
*booth
there are still phone booths?
― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
they're mainly hobo porty-pottys these days, but yes.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
*porto
can't wait for don to jump off that roof xD
― am0n, Tuesday, 17 January 2012 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
nah it's gonna be Roger who jumps off the roof, still think Don has a chance to get right with the tao.
― tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Tuesday, 17 January 2012 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
We all obviously want Don Draper to die and the series to end, because we all hate it, and that's we post on this thread.
stfu.
― cue "White Rabbit" (kenan), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 14:02 (twelve years ago) link
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyob7sa99v1qz6f9yo1_500.jpg
― mizzell, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
hah!
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
hahaha
― ⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
i sent that pic to a coworker who is a fan of the show. his reply:
What a great picture! I wonder what the significance of the whale shooting the mad man out of the water is about?A fish out of water?? Maybe the culture change of the late 60’s is coming around…
I wonder what the significance of the whale shooting the mad man out of the water is about?
A fish out of water?? Maybe the culture change of the late 60’s is coming around…
― Aerosol, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 18:25 (twelve years ago) link
s4 finally came back on On Demand, I had forgotten most of this
― Full Frontal Newtity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
i finally bought s4 -- found it for dirt cheap at a blockbuster liquidation sale.
― textile in thighville (get bent), Thursday, 2 February 2012 01:31 (twelve years ago) link
rewatching Season 4... Honda scooter episode is so perfect.
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 00:08 (twelve years ago) link
^^the shot of Peggy riding around the empty studio is one of my fave images from the show.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 00:20 (twelve years ago) link
also her peeking over the partition at Don
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mgziEjHIibk/TzojtiPY_FI/AAAAAAAABJc/yhCp2IoLIG4/s307/tumblr_l7l3nt2imn1qa2osao1_400.gif
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uIN0xGgtkss/Tzojqurjv4I/AAAAAAAABJU/EJLB6pnKSEE/s400/2rdxfmt.gif
― nate woolls, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 09:06 (twelve years ago) link
I've also been rewatching S4 - the episode where Don goes down to California and no one has told Anna that she's dying is heartbreaking. And then you get Don and Laine going out and getting slaughtered as well. Genuinely don't understand why anyone thinks that series was a drop-off in quality.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 10:13 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I am noticing lots of little things, foreshadowing/nuances. Like there's a bit in the episode where Pete finds out Trudy is pregnant and Laine's telling him he has to ditch his father-in-law's account - Laine is kind of a dick to Pete re: fatherhood and "manning up", as it were, which is laden with irony given Laine's relationship with his own father as revealed in a later episode.
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
oh man, "the cure for the common ____" episode
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 16 February 2012 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
So we're 3 whole weeks away from the premiere and somebody hacked Christina Hendricks' phone and thrown out some NSFW images onto the internets...
(find them yrselves)
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 5 March 2012 03:31 (twelve years ago) link
They weren't really that scandalous.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 5 March 2012 03:33 (twelve years ago) link
pix more adorbs than scandalous imo
tho obviously is terrible that (most likely) someone violated her trust
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 5 March 2012 03:34 (twelve years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/EzZER.jpg
― drop these whiners on a island (Surviver style) (forksclovetofu), Monday, 5 March 2012 04:22 (twelve years ago) link
great, now we gotta NSFW this thread.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 5 March 2012 04:40 (twelve years ago) link
^^forks that counts as a request for title change
― ⚓ (gr8080), Monday, 5 March 2012 04:42 (twelve years ago) link
clean those dons up jesus
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 5 March 2012 04:47 (twelve years ago) link
Hallway-and-glasses one is adorable!
― Clancy Fans and Fancy Clans (Eazy), Monday, 5 March 2012 05:31 (twelve years ago) link
damn girl
― homosexual II, Monday, 5 March 2012 05:48 (twelve years ago) link
her body is incredible!
I'd believe her statements that the only picture "leaked" that actually shows nudity is not her
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 5 March 2012 13:51 (twelve years ago) link
peggy!
http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20120308/images/features/madwoman/elisabeth_moss1.jpg
http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20120308/Mad+Woman+Bad+Girl
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 8 March 2012 12:56 (twelve years ago) link
*spoiler alert*
― Eric H., Thursday, 8 March 2012 12:56 (twelve years ago) link
One-upping Joan...
― "marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Thursday, 8 March 2012 13:02 (twelve years ago) link
I was not at all expecting that first link to be a picture like that and I'm in shock now
― valleys of your mind (mh), Thursday, 8 March 2012 14:01 (twelve years ago) link
She's cheery, funny and sincere-any girl would long to be her BFF (and ask if she's down for trading outfits).
*barf*
― mizzell, Thursday, 8 March 2012 14:22 (twelve years ago) link
and just wait until she starts telling you about her friend xenu...
― face depalma (stevie), Thursday, 8 March 2012 14:32 (twelve years ago) link
"One of the greatest things I heard someone say about him [Fred Armisen] is, 'He's so great at doing impersonations. But the greatest impersonation he does is that of a normal person.' To me, that sums it up."
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzjy4lgo6b1qa9hsto1_500.gif
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Thursday, 8 March 2012 14:39 (twelve years ago) link
i have no love for fred armisen, but E.M. has a bit of a credibility problem: she's a scient0logist.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 9 March 2012 08:46 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/arts/television/matthew-weiner-is-silent-on-mad-men-season-premiere.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&ref=arts
Fun David Chase quote in this piece:
"‘Seinfeld,’ they ended it with them all going to jail. Now that’s the ending we should have had. And they should have had ours, where it blacked out in a diner.”
― "marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 9 March 2012 12:28 (twelve years ago) link
I agree, but I can always appreciate a good burn.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Friday, 9 March 2012 13:31 (twelve years ago) link
She's a Hollywood scientologist-by-birth I think, so maybe less damaging to her credibility.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Friday, 9 March 2012 15:22 (twelve years ago) link
pretty sure you can switch up once you hit puberty?
― God: Huummm (forksclovetofu), Friday, 9 March 2012 16:13 (twelve years ago) link
as with anything really
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 9 March 2012 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
i can't quit u tho s1ocki
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 9 March 2012 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
please try
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 9 March 2012 16:27 (twelve years ago) link
http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4f57cf0b6bb3f7f240000080-578-491/sterling-scooper-mad-men-ice-cream.jpg
― mizzell, Friday, 9 March 2012 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
If this is really I am buying it. Vodka + ice cream = yum
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Friday, 9 March 2012 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
I meant, if this is real.
The alcohol in vodka wouldn't freeze at normal freezer temps and the ice cream would be runny
signed, the guy who would pour bacardi over mint chocolate chip ice cream
― valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 9 March 2012 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
how do you explain rum raisin then?
― Number None, Friday, 9 March 2012 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
The raisins aren't completely frozen and are embedded in frozen ice cream?
― valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 9 March 2012 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
yeah but you still put some rum in too. It does make it harder to freeze but it is possible
― Number None, Friday, 9 March 2012 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
they couldn't sell it if there was so much alcohol that it would prevent freezing. the alcohol must cooked off at some point.
― mizzell, Friday, 9 March 2012 17:11 (twelve years ago) link
well yeah, you're not gonna get drunk off it
― Number None, Friday, 9 March 2012 17:13 (twelve years ago) link
A real Mad men-themed ice cream would
― valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 9 March 2012 17:14 (twelve years ago) link
guys they're flavors
― God: Huummm (forksclovetofu), Friday, 9 March 2012 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
of ice cream
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 9 March 2012 17:39 (twelve years ago) link
does this ever start?
― a hoy hoy, Friday, 9 March 2012 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
The series in general? Sort of yes, sort of no.
― Eric H., Friday, 9 March 2012 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
relieved that Bert's in the promo pics for S5. was gonna be bummed if he'd been written out.
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 20 March 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
some spoilers here but nothing that drastic/unexpected:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/mad-men-returns-in-living-color/2012/03/18/gIQAO2rmTS_story.html
― the kids of boris midney high (get bent), Friday, 23 March 2012 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5mZey1iXw
Pretty cool, the best bit imo is the intro recreation.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
Now the black people are protesting outside, as if threatening to become actual characters. I see go-go boots and shorter skirts and blocks of trippy color. I see the first hint of plumage on the men. Don and Megan’s new high-rise apartment is a splash of white carpet and zebra-striped pillows. It’s like their world is about to burst, as we’ve always known it must. This updated “Mad Men” is a mind-blowing retrogasm.
― thomp, Friday, 23 March 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
It's like when you watched the Beatles Anthology for the first time and halfway through everything started being in color.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
if any of u are canadian you can do this on premiere night:
http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2012/03/23/jessica-pare-festival-mad-men-vs-sorry-rabbi/
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
I get the CBC, yay!
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
:)
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
what a promotional coup!
― mh, Friday, 23 March 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
would watch (if i had CBC)
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
I honestly feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have it, because watching hockey would be a pitiful affair without it.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
Ya pretty sure CBC planned it that way!
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
woah thats awesome s1ocks!!
― ♆ (gr8080), Friday, 23 March 2012 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
lol, they changed the photo that originally accompanied the piece to a much better one
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 23 March 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
CBUT but no CBC here ;_;
― Jaq, Friday, 23 March 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
more like jessica parve, mirit
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Friday, 23 March 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
I'm a sucker for demanding girlfriends
― mh, Friday, 23 March 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
JP took exception to that description on my FB haha
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 23 March 2012 20:06 (eleven years ago) link
can I be fb friends with you to see this s1ocki, it is important for my personal development
― mh, Friday, 23 March 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
does itunes put up MM eps right away?
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 23 March 2012 22:37 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's usually within 24 hours, but there have been weird exceptions
― mh, Saturday, 24 March 2012 04:35 (eleven years ago) link
i wanna host a screening party on sunday night but i dont have cable is the thing
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 24 March 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I think you're probably out of luck on that unless they do something odd about the digital release schedule or if someone has pirated and uploaded the preview copy.
― mh, Saturday, 24 March 2012 15:14 (eleven years ago) link
hoping for the latter :D
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 24 March 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
do you have any neighbors with cable? bribe them with snacks to run a really long cable from their place to yours for a couple hours.
― mh, Saturday, 24 March 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
nabes with cabes
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 24 March 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
egad it's almost here!
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 25 March 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
get psychedhttp://blogs.indiewire.com/pressplay/video-essay-its-a-mad-world-a-mad-men-tribute-by-serena-bramble
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Sunday, 25 March 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
has anyone done a recap of last season done entirely in gifs
― techno pink (reddening), Sunday, 25 March 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
yes:
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/PeggyRider-ONE-2.gif
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Sunday, 25 March 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
otm
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Sunday, 25 March 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
I love this show.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Sunday, 25 March 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
kvelling @ alison brie's dress:
http://weblogs.variety.com/.a/6a00d8341bfc7553ef01630345ae60970d-pi
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Monday, 26 March 2012 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder how much of MM's popularity rested on early 60s fashion (more than one'd think, I expect), and how damaged that popularity will be by late 60s fashion (which I feel like is relatively hideous to most modern eyes).
― Dan I., Monday, 26 March 2012 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder how many critics will be like "They're overdoing crazy late 60s styles!" cuz it's almost hard to believe how weirdly people actually started dressing
― Dan I., Monday, 26 March 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder a lot of things haha
― Dan I., Monday, 26 March 2012 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
banana republic might have some trouble selling/marketing the 1966 stuff to its target audience. although it'll do fine in other places that don't capitalize on drabness.
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Monday, 26 March 2012 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
suspect that the major & cooler characters will stay a step or two behind the times in this regard
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
btw, http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cxx_rNVC9gw/Tg8wXW_0xSI/AAAAAAAAAC8/povV1mtmbUQ/s1600/The+Excited+Classy+Lady.jpg
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 00:50 (eleven years ago) link
For Mad Men we made turkey meatballs with quinoa with a yogurt sauce with roasted squash!
― JacobSanders, Monday, 26 March 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
10 more minutes and then BOOM, to the DVR!
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
We're doing the same, waiting till it has recorded and then playing it so we can skip ads
― JacobSanders, Monday, 26 March 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFOzG3GYqo
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 26 March 2012 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
The scene between Harry and Roger ftw.
"We can have the conversation you thought we were having."
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 03:16 (eleven years ago) link
"So will this be every month, or..."
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:22 (eleven years ago) link
Lolling at Megan's Québécois swearing.
― LaMonte, Monday, 26 March 2012 03:34 (eleven years ago) link
the baby wipe scene was some seriously lol-trolling. took me a clear couple seconds to decipher the image, half in horror that my tv had actually been hacked and i was reliving goatse all over again.
― kelpolaris, Monday, 26 March 2012 03:41 (eleven years ago) link
WHen did Don tell Megan about Dick??
― JacobSanders, Monday, 26 March 2012 03:41 (eleven years ago) link
scene with roger and harry had me rollin'
― goole, Monday, 26 March 2012 03:42 (eleven years ago) link
-Joan and her mother getting on each other's nerves, maybe my favorite thing about the whole Ep... Sooooooo perfect. Every tiny little jab and raised eyebrow, mwah
- is Megan going to go crazytown, or am I projecting?
- Pete's plaid jacket at the party was outstanding.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:53 (eleven years ago) link
SHHH! it's just starting on the west coast...
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 04:00 (eleven years ago) link
t-minus how long until we figure out megan is not who she says she is?
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 26 March 2012 04:13 (eleven years ago) link
Why do you think Megan will go nuts? Wondering if she will fall more and more into the scene.
― *tera, Monday, 26 March 2012 04:15 (eleven years ago) link
http:✧✧✧.gifb✧✧✧.com/medias/df7c1fd31c5d433eadfcdb131ad70✧✧✧@2✧.g✧✧
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 26 March 2012 04:15 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think there is anything wrong with her. Maybe normal for the times.
― *tera, Monday, 26 March 2012 04:19 (eleven years ago) link
where's a gif of that look pete gave roger sterling..
i think something's up with megan. they said she was an actress, is she really french canadian?
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 26 March 2012 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
This show.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:02 (eleven years ago) link
So glad this is back. Nothing like watching 2 hours of television where almost nothing in particular happens.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:07 (eleven years ago) link
guys real talk all the black applicants with dusty springfield playing had me trying to figure out wtf was going on and sending me into major film theory conniption fits
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:40 (eleven years ago) link
also rape sex is my favorite plot device
*consensual
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 05:42 (eleven years ago) link
is now when we start complaining about things being "on the nose"?
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:43 (eleven years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Monday, March 26, 2012 1:42 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You clearly have never had rape sex in the way i phrased it if you have to qualify it.
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:50 (eleven years ago) link
I have no problem with that burn.
Also that was Kimmy Robertson, right?
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:54 (eleven years ago) link
I watched the first season and never got around to the rest. Do I really need to watch three seasons or can I just jump in to S5?
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:56 (eleven years ago) link
You could probably get away with skipping season 2. But watch them all honestly. It'd be like skipping to the middle of Infinite Jest or something.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 05:58 (eleven years ago) link
alternately, you could stare at a glass of whiskey in low light for a couple hours
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 06:25 (eleven years ago) link
while thinking about boobs
dangerously close to something I'd do w/o Mad Men tbh
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 26 March 2012 06:28 (eleven years ago) link
let me rephrase: I can start Justified or Breaking Bad from the beginning, or Mad Men from S2 on - which do I do?
Justified is great, but not in the league of Mad Men or Breaking Bad imo. I think I slightly prefer MM to BB, but it could go either way. As the final season of Breaking Bad (broken up into two parts, mind) starts airing this year, you should probably go with that one. Mad Men has another two years after this one for you to catch up.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 26 March 2012 06:38 (eleven years ago) link
"You're all so cynical. You don't smile, you smirk."
[whistles nonchalantly while examining the ceiling]
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 06:54 (eleven years ago) link
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1h5gn8qy21qk63xoo1_r1_500.gif
― techno pink (reddening), Monday, 26 March 2012 07:43 (eleven years ago) link
Fwiw I would totally buy Joan's dress in this episode.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 12:45 (eleven years ago) link
pete's old office is very telegenic. harry doesn't deserve those blue walls and that cool furniture.
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Monday, 26 March 2012 12:57 (eleven years ago) link
milo - at least start with season 3 of mad men which is the best to date. don't skip it. (i don't think skipping first two seasons is as big a deal.)
― Mordy, Monday, 26 March 2012 13:30 (eleven years ago) link
Harry giving Don the silver-tipped walking cane."Don Ameche has one!"
lolololol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
Honestly it took me a while to get used to the nothing-happening/significant glances thing after so long away.
And there were a couple of times where I was like, TWO HOURS of this? Really?
I love the show but jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez louise.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 13:47 (eleven years ago) link
This episode was hilarious!
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Monday, 26 March 2012 13:53 (eleven years ago) link
I loved how funny it was, I wasn't ready for any heavy drama at the beginning of the season. Also, I was happy with the lack of Betty Draper.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 14:18 (eleven years ago) link
yeah for real
didn't do that much for me tbh but it's all setup anyway I guess
― dmr, Monday, 26 March 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
It was awfully slow
― L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Monday, 26 March 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
Well slow is what we expect by now, no?
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
i was riveted. i don't even notice the slowness on this show; i think my brain adapted several seasons ago.
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Monday, 26 March 2012 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
Oh Harry.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah no kidding, what's his deal? Other than apparently being a wife-swapping libertine whenever he's out of the office.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
He's slimmed down a little in the time off, right?
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know why, but it struck me funny that Duck had five different contacts in Don's rolodex.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
can't wait til they write Freddy Mercury out of this show like they did with Betty
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
also no that was not Kimmy Robertson
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
Harry and Pete are like two sides of a pathetic coin; Harry's the passive pathetic guy, and Pete's the aggressive pathetic guy.
I can't decide who I enjoy more, but both of them give me so much secondhand embarrassment, it's just great to watch
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
I love Pete these days.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
I kind of wish he'd taken it outside with Roger. I knew he wouldn't because it's not his steez AT ALL, but it would have been great to have seen a sidewalk dustup between them.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
Fingers crossed that it's still coming.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
Megan is so ridiculously pretty but I still get the BWAHAHAH FREDDY MERCURY giggles when she flashes her choppers
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, that was wtf Shakey Mo was talking about this time.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1hg59uBLg1rrimozo1_500.gif
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
this really just flew by for me, it didnt feel like 'ppl doing nothing' at all!
biggest LOL: 'there's my baby!'
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
and of course jess kicked ass.
I'm glad Peggy's yid boyfriend is back; he's dreamy.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, that was great.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
so do we think Dr. Rape is going to die off-screen sometime this season or what
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
i think he's going to singlehandedly stop the vietnam war. REALITY SPLIT.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
yeah love Peggy and her boyfriend
xp
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
Trudy taking the wrong side of the protest conversation was very much in character, but still funny.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
Pete Campbell is the stealth liberal we all always thought he was.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
Don's "so hire one" at the end seemed like it shoulda been Pete's line
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
When the job applicants all showed up in the lobby I actually shouted at the TV, "Well what did you THINK would happen?"
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
what was that amazing music playing when Kiernan Shipka woke up and went to Don and Megan's room
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
ya that was cool
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
also her name is 'don's daughter,' not kiernan shipka
SALLY DRAPER, you knobs!
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Xn4VWYwd4
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
Sally Shipka, let's compromise
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
i'm with veg grrl; the soap opera-ishness of this ep kinda killed it for mei want to see MORE PITCHING OF ADS
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
rewatch s1 in that case I guess
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
more dancing beans
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
I for one just love watching miserable people destroy themselves slowly at this point, it makes me feel like I have company.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:39 (eleven years ago) link
xp YES! I was really looking forward to the bean ballet.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
lol, the dancing bean ad idea sucked.I WAS IN KOREA
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
It's been my biggest struggle with this show from the get-go...as much time is spent on the characters talking to each other as the camera slowly panning over furnishings. In my more cynical moments I'm just like "man this show is just furniture porn for modernists".
and then Pete/Harry/Sally/Joan do something great and I'm happy.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
harry was a bit of a treat this ep, i'll give them that
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
not enough bad things happen to Harry imho
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
Harry's gonna get AIDS.
Joan and Lane have the most respectful professional relationship on the show, they are an inspiration to us all in terms of their basic decency. OTOH Lane is a sad panda who really wants to be Don apparently but can't pull it off.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
Lane's little subplot this ep was the most curious insofar as I really didn't know where it was going or what the overall implication was going to be... was a bit worried that he was going to hit on Joan during their little exchange.
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
Stan was also enjoyable in this episode, especially when he let Harry dig his own grave in the office kitchen as Megan stood behind him.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
yeah genuine lolz at that
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
was a bit worried that he was going to hit on Joan during their little exchange.
Okay, so I wasn't the only one. Of course he didn't, though, because he's Lane Pryce and he wouldn't do such a thing.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
the soap opera-ishness of this ep kinda killed it for me
I generally think of Mad Men as a very high-end soap opera.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
that's pretty obviously what it is. It doesn't get any more soap-opera-y than having one of the main story arcs be "married woman with absent husband has somebody else's baby"
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
I thought in soap operas the baby would somehow be the evil twin of a different character entirely. Or a vampire or something.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
Also, the lead character is not who everyone believes he is.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
Mr Pryce's conversation with the girl in the photo made me want to crawl out of my skin, just for awkwardness.
Him and Joan are wonderful, and yeah I had a few alarm bells early on but he just SO loves her professionally I was like, oh of course he would never. Sigh of relief.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty sure that was a deliberate mislead.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty careless of him keeping the photo in his own wallet, though. It could've fallen out when he was giving Mrs. Pryce money for the day.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
I thought he was going to take the money or something, at first I couldn't really figure where it was going. but he's Lane Pryce, so I was very confused for a while.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
^^^yeah I was wondering if he was so broke he needed to steal $100. although initial takeaway was simply "Lane does not trust black people"
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
THIS
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
It was all very strange
Pretty careless of him keeping the photo in his own wallet, though.
Didn't he slide the photo under his desk calendar?
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
he's supposed to be going broke right
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
xxxxp
I only just remembered his somewhat nauseating relationship with his 'chocolate bunny'.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
xpost jaymc: then he put it in his wallet later
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
it was sorta weird how my interpretation went from "Lane doesn't trust black people" >> "Lane needs money" >>> "Lane is fishing for a date from a whore" >>> "is Lane gonna blackmail this dude or something?" lol
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
I thought his "Oh I write for underground newspapers -- you probably haven't heard of them" was such a douchebag moment.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, I must've missed that, VegGrrl.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
everyone in this show is a douchebag, it's all a matter of degree
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
douchegree
When he was fishing for money to give his wife the next day, the photo was stashed between the bills in his wallet.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
I was expecting the woman to show up for the wallet and be older/overweight/or in some other way different than the photo he was perving over.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
ya, it was pretty funny that it was the dude who turned out to be a shlub
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
The photo looked to be a bit older, so I liked the idea he had built up the idea of this woman that doesn't exist.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
it would sort of be the obvious thing to do if she showed up looking different/dumpy, for some reason having it be the guy was just great
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:16 (eleven years ago) link
very madmaniacal plot turn.
The other thing about it that made me laugh was that she sounded a little bit like the mom on Bob's Burgers, so I kept imagining Lane having a flirty phone conversation with this:
http://images1.cliqueclack.com/tv/files/2011/05/wallpapers_linda_1024-1-150x150.jpg
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
HA!
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
OH BOBBY
looooool
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
were we meant to get a mob vibe off wallet dude?
― goole, Monday, 26 March 2012 17:20 (eleven years ago) link
pretty schlubby for a mobster
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
Totally freaked at Pete's suburban kitchen looking exactly like Don's erstwhile suburban kitchen btw.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, March 26, 2012 9:56 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, i went through the exact same "gross!", "please don't!", "thank god" arc there
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
Loved Pete's shocked reaction at seeing Peggy holding baby Kevin.
Very curious about Lane's behaviour - why so broke? Definitely thought he was going to steal the money in the wallet. Actually I Went 'ugh racist' 'ugh thief' 'ugh perv!' but the wife's money questions kept coming up - I guess he put most of his money into SCDP, whereas the others had larger fortunes to begin with.. I guess no one's really getting paid yet?
An entertaining episode, but I would've preferred maybe an hour of 'the gangs' all here!' catchup and then something to actually happen.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
Also Roger's open disdain for his wife is kinda lolzy/kinda O_o
Like when she asked him what time it was and he's all "Shaddup"
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
love that you don't see him at the staten island terminal
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
re: wild 60s fashion, I think you guys are wildly underestimating American public's willingness to embrace crazy fashion shit. after all, we did it once before, and if any show could re-kickstart hideous late 60s clothing trends it would be Mad Men.
― Mordy, Monday, 26 March 2012 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
Lane thing with the girl/schlubby mobster seems an obvious long con, yet to play out.
Nice! Missed this. Also, love the baby names. Kevin. Tammy.
― RCMP, Monday, 26 March 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, it almost makes me forgive the idea of a woman born in 1940 named Megan.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
same thing in reverse: roger's "my baby!" as he walked up to greet joan & their secret bastard in the hall
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
this was bugging me, too
well Canadians are weird so
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
Apparently uncommon in Canada, too:http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2010/10/mad-men-and-megan-spotlight-on-a-misunderstood-name
As I mentioned in a comment on that post, Bethany and Allison -- two of Don's conquests last season -- also had names that were also basically unknown in the U.S. (i.e., not among the top 1,000 names for girls) before the end of WWII.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
i was right in that they gave megan the cool late 60s getup, while stan gets the questionable leisurewear
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
repost from rong thred:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/dondetail.jpg
<3
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:56 (eleven years ago) link
HAH! Took me a second.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 26 March 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
i know i know mad men likes pretty ladies but god damn i <3 petes new secretary
― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Monday, 26 March 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, her face look intersting.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 26 March 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
It's funny, I thought the "And they call us savages!" line at the beginning of the episode was really corny but it turns out it was a real line from an nytimes story on the incident.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 26 March 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
btw are we now on actor no. 4 in the role of Bobby
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
xp corny irl too
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
I hope that Peggy's friend (Mamet's daughter) comes back but she probably won't as she's in that Lena Dunham HBO series.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:02 (eleven years ago) link
shocked that theres not a .gif here of the peggy reaction face when megan mouths 'forty' 2 her
― johnny crunch, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
shocked that theres not a .gif here of megan cleaning
― goole, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
"cleaning"
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
more like "presenting"
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
like a mandrill, to coin MST3K
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:05 (eleven years ago) link
"presenting"
o man, such a gross word. read a couple sci-fi novels by michael swanwick a few years back, and he's just in love with describing his female characters as "presenting". blargh.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
National Lampoon Presents:
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
aww
http://i42.tinypic.com/23jogac.jpg
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
the cigarette, god. the way my brain reacted to that he might as well have been wielding a knife
my how times have changed etc
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
also omg Joan in the hot pink dress with red hair A++++++++++++++++
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
OTM
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
"she doesn't speak french. she doesn't like me."
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
but there's definitely a "joan is old fashioned" message re. joan's pink dress. she's still wearing clothes from 3 years previous. she's stuck. everyone else has moved on but she's going to hang on to her style probably for another 15 years or however long she can buy those dresses for.
― jed_, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 01:27 (eleven years ago) link
& hair all ratted-up like a teenage jezebel.
― jed_, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 01:28 (eleven years ago) link
Btw slocki's movie was v.good.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:07 (eleven years ago) link
agreed with jed. They're still showing off the cleavage but she's wearing more (manufactured) bulk in her midsection and butt and i don't think that's going anywhere. joan's gonna lose some of that sex appeal as the seventies begin methinks
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
not once she gets back in the office.
guaranteed Joan t-1000 taking bitches OUT
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:26 (eleven years ago) link
mmmmmmi dunno. i think having joan come into her own outside of sexbomb status could be a more interesting plotline
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:28 (eleven years ago) link
why, so freddy mercury can steal her thunder? I say no to that.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
(manufactured) bulk in her midsection
that belly was so obviously cushiony that I can't believe they're having her keep it all year
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:37 (eleven years ago) link
can I make an embarrassing admission: I was transfixed by the way her decolletage rose UP and DOWN with her sobbing in that dress. I was hypnotized.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:39 (eleven years ago) link
well I guess not embarrassing but whatever
I'm only just past the zoobeezoo scene, but ffs, it's 2012: can't directors and editors come to an agreement that when the drummer is playing the hi-hat, that's what we should hear on the soundtrack, and not the ride cymbal? I will give them credit for getting the equipment right, though
/drumgearnerdtalk
― we can be gyros just for one day (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:44 (eleven years ago) link
I love you a little bit more now for that.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:49 (eleven years ago) link
And don't get me started on the fact that the drummer was playing bongos, and yet a full drum kit was also audible. What, are we to believe this was some sort of...(snort)...magic drummer? I hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
Seriously, I do.
― we can be gyros just for one day (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:57 (eleven years ago) link
AND CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION
PS I AM NOT A CRANK
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
― we can be gyros just for one day (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Monday, March 26, 2012 7:37 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm, the padding only exists sot that it can be removed later on
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
see i was thinking that's a warm up to a heavier fatsuit
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
This is on here somewhere right?
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:15 (eleven years ago) link
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, March 26, 2012 10:07 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you watched it <3
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:26 (eleven years ago) link
A homosexual, a French-Canadian sexpot and a single redhead? I think I've found my target demographic.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:39 (eleven years ago) link
um, wtf is going on with Don's hand here? is Dick Whitman actually a tyrannosaurus?!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:48 (eleven years ago) link
whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:57 (eleven years ago) link
onetinyhand.com
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 07:33 (eleven years ago) link
the internet is so weird
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 07:41 (eleven years ago) link
I really enjoyed this, the whole thing was really funny, especially anything involving Harry or Roger. Happy that Bert Cooper's still around as well.
I wonder if the new black secretary, whoever it is, is going to be a significant character? I kinda hope so.
Theme of the ep seems to be that happy Don isn't as good at his job, wonder how that's going to play out?
Also have they ever even hinted about Joan having a bit of a thing for Don before? She seemed really pissy around Megan, but it seems like a weird direction for her character to go at this stage. Loved the scene with Laine and Joan thought - there are so many pairings in this show with great chemistry at this stage.
I didn't really care that not much happened, was great to just re-familiarise with the characters and enjoy the lols.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 09:38 (eleven years ago) link
Although apparently no one told the scriptwriters that British people don't call the autumn "the fall".
i think joan was just mad that megan's already working as a copywriter
― just sayin, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 10:02 (eleven years ago) link
yeah don & joan is maybe the subtlest relationship in the show, always gets overlooked behind don/peggy. i think it's like a real "we are both in control" similar sense of pride mutual respect that they don't even really think about but if they did they'd realise they don't have for anyone else at all? from joan's side it verges on idk almost motherly sometimes but not romantic i don't think; would be lame if the show even hinted at toying with it
dr rape was the don cut-out she thought she was getting (/deserved) obv
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 10:28 (eleven years ago) link
haha idk about anyone else but mainly i found it a refresher course in how stressful watching mad men is. "enjoy the lols" never crossed my mind
kind of summed up by how pete has never been more right despite his weaseliness, don & roger never worse
as ever, interesting the redemptive role the success of the business plays
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 10:46 (eleven years ago) link
>Loved the scene with Laine and Joan
THIS. Loved the whole double episode tbh. Jared Harris's performance throughout gave me cause to reflect on what an truly excellent and versatile actor he is. Comparing Laine with a role like Captain Mike in Benjamin Button one would scarcely believe they were the played by the same person, but he inhabits them entirely.
― that mustardless plate (Bill A), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 12:35 (eleven years ago) link
It took me about two thirds of the film to realise that was him as Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes 2.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 12:55 (eleven years ago) link
Are Pete and Trudy living in Don's old house?
I loved Pete's wistful sigh when trudy was bitching about the traffic noise in Don and Megan's place.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:05 (eleven years ago) link
He was so good in Sherlock Holmes 2, it made me sad that the part was so puny and insubstantial.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
wau @ onetinyhandsome serious lols!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:13 (eleven years ago) link
The Lane Pryce actor is A+ in Fringe
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:14 (eleven years ago) link
ooh i hope so. megan just hasn't earned it (queen bee status) yet, baby.
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:19 (eleven years ago) link
I almost enjoyed the Lane/Joan recap of the party as much as the party! OK, well, not really, but his pantomime was amazing. Jared Harris has really been getting a lot of tv/film parts where he's been able to shine in the last few years.
Don and Peggy still have this great professional/personal thing going where they're like brother and sister, in a way. Her reaction to Megan doesn't seem to be disapproval, but a lot more nuanced -- like she is skeptical of her professionally, but due to her affection for Don she seems to want it to work.
Megan's character is.... going to be interesting. I can't tell if she's really manipulative, kind of manipulative and still earnest, or something else altogether.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:31 (eleven years ago) link
sterling stuff was really great, how useless and annoying he is, what i really like about this show is that doesnt necc mean he'll get any sort of comeuppance at all
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:38 (eleven years ago) link
I think Megan's probably a decent person. She occupies a completely different paradigm to Don though, and I'm not sure their attraction is a great deal more than an intense sexual one.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:41 (eleven years ago) link
Nah Don sees Megan as some kind of perfect mother Maria von Trappe anti-Betty figure as well, I think? Probably a load of issues around Anna's death in there as well. Either way that's probably not the way Megan sees herself, or Don's kids for that matter.
I couldn't work out whether or not Megan is any good at her job - I'm thinking yes but everyone including Peggy ignores that because she's the boss's wife...
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:44 (eleven years ago) link
Don sees Megan as some kind of perfect mother Maria von Trappe anti-Betty figure as well, I think?
Yeah I think you're right, but he's projecting massively there. She's not particularly maternal, she just has fun hanging out with the kids (who by the way seemed kind of wary of her in this ep). That's certainly a step up on Betty though.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:47 (eleven years ago) link
Yes! I'm just ranting at this point with my impressions as I remember them since I just watched this before bed last night. Front-loading the new Pete/Roger dynamic in the first episode of the season was clever. I can't believe Roger fell for the Staten Island prank.x-p
It's interesting that the Don/Megan dynamic is similar to something I saw with one of my friends recently. Don's attention is hard to keep in that he has seemed to need to challenge himself from all aspects in the past -- being energetic at work, holding down the checklist of wife/kids, and the string of affairs. Last season was mostly that falling apart in his home life. Now, he's got all three in one situation -- a woman who has the energy level he has (or did have, since he's now "old") who is also his home life (with all the conflict, since Don's personal life is supposed to have a dignified pretense), and a workplace where he's now disconnecting due to multiple factors but widely because Megan is there, too.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:48 (eleven years ago) link
I'm assuming he hasn't had any affairs since getting with Megan (certainly not much chance to with them working together) but who knows.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:50 (eleven years ago) link
I doubt it. Probably part of why he's so run down is he doesn't have as much "Don time," which was partly used in the past for affairs but he also seems like kind of a dude who needs space.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:53 (eleven years ago) link
I think that's a big part of the reason he was so irked by the surprise party.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
Also have they ever even hinted about Joan having a bit of a thing for Don before?
The scene that convinced me the show will never go down that road was the two of them in the hospital waiting room after the office party lawnmower incident. It's been a long time since I've seen that ep, but it signified to me then and there that it's a completely platonic relationship built of mutual respect.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
not so sure. joan had a line about being sad at missing seeing don's blushes during megan's dance.
― jed_, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
doesn't say much, everyone thinks don is handsome
― sonderangerbot, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
It was something like "I can only imagine that man becomes more handsome when he's blushing," which falls in line with the mutual respect thing imo. They're the king and queen of their little work world and they each know it (Joan had some doubt when she saw the ad in the paper, but Lane put things right).
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
you guys are basically shipping right now
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
Crazy there isn't a Mad Men porn yet.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
took me three secondshttp://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverart/Adult/Large/Front/51/8250451.jpg
― sonderangerbot, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
poor phrasing perhaps
i hope you at least rewound
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
Huh, these porn parodies are usually better at making sure the costumes are somewhat accurate.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
haha ya that dude
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1h6q1pYDJ1qju80b.gif
― circa1916, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/jon-hamm-i-hated-working-in-porn-16134851.html
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
Whatever happened to the great porn names? 'This isn't [x]: An XXX Parody' is so disappointing.
― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
ya its crazy to me that as soon as those porn parodies seemed to get really popular they just dispensed with the hilarious names
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
starring
don dripperjoan hollowaaaay downpegging olsonbutt cooper
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
loling at the simplicity yet hilarity of "butt cooper"
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
Rogerer Sterling
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
Roger Sperming
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
^ win
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
I LOVE the cheesy mid-sixties fashion! I also LOVE Megan and I wanted to hold her tightly after she got all sensitive. And then when she dommed Don.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
I also HATE Harry Crane and I am glad Don hates him, too.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
Spermling, surely.
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
harry crane is the best.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:40 (eleven years ago) link
Harry Crane is the best at being the worst. I think that's why he is beloved.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
i really miss paul and sal. will we ever see them again?
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
^^^this. lots of horrible things happen to people on this show, I wish more of them happened to Harry, who is loathsome in every way.
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
he's just so hopeless. so fantastically hopeless.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
he's a coward, a lech, an idiot, and with no skills/attractive traits into the woodchipper with him
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
he's no worse than 90% of the other guys on this show. he just is not attractive.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
90% of the other guys are immoral, predatory, racist, cruel, vindictive, whatever but they are also all smarter and/or more creative than he is. he's just a lump.
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
Harry's the closest thing to an IRL unlikeable, trying too hard, weak officeworker, which is why I love him. He's note-perfect.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
how long until one of the characters murders someone?
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
Who's the guy in the Palm Beach golf-type outfits in the office? He must do his job really well to get away with that, or it's just a way for Banana Republic to have a casual line for summer. On a related note, loved Don's mustard raincoat.
― (Dre) vs. (Eazy), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.insound.com/madmen/
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, he seems too pathetic to hate.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 17:57 (eleven years ago) link
Who's the guy in the Palm Beach golf-type outfits in the office?
stan rizzo (jay r. ferguson), new art director brought in last year iirc. gets away with it due his role, i suppose.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I've supposed that as well.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:45 (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
When he gets into his sixties he runs for to become 2012 Republican nominee for Presidency
― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
Crane's passive aggressive cowardice and SELF IMPORTANT attitude is SO annoying. He's always crowing about how he's THE HEAD OF HIS DEPT, ETC but I have yet to see him to do anything worthwhile. He definitely slimmed down (not sure if that was purposeful) AND I thought for a moment when he arrived at Don's party, that he was now single. But it seems no. He's just a philandering creep (who's not hot enough to do as much philandering as he'd like).
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
Also I am really starting to love Layne.He was REAL CHUFFED as being seen as a gentleman.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
The wallet incident made me uncomfortable -- was he taking it because he didn't trust the cabdriver or because he was thinking about stealing the money/perving over pictures? Him being racist would seem worse to me than just being sort of desperate.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
it could be racism. i was wondering that too. also, most cabbies aren't exactly rolling in the dough - that might be more to do with it? (or not)
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
or just I am Britisher Executive, I am much more well placed to do this good deed than any lowly cab driver
maybe
I don't know honestly. Felt like racism at first but who tf knows
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
it was sort of an underlying theme of the ep, so who knows?!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
I took it ambiguously at first, just as the cabbie did - it was just a sense of being uncomfortable with there being this wallet, that Lane had kind of found, that was in his hands and he didn't want to pass it off and trust someone else with it. It could be a racial thing, a class thing, a distrust of taxi driver thing, who knows? I thought that the driver kind of paused and then brushed it off after getting Lane's card.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
To be fair, the driver also said something about dropping it off in the lost and found, implying it'd be changing hands again and neither of them would have responsibility anymore. I can see where Lane would rather take care of it as an honorable thing to do.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:06 (eleven years ago) link
whole thing seems like a preamble to something else, hard to tell what
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
Lane using mafia connections to set up some sort of future money and/or advertising deal, imo
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
i think it was just Lane being proper englishman to be compared later with his lechery over the photo and then contrasted with his meeting with the wallet owner and the whole, "this is how we do things here," spiel
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
def racist. I think they're setting up lane to have major issues with the eventual black hire?
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
what about his black girlfriend?
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
"I can't be a racist, some of my favorite mistresses are black"?
The irony of being called a gentlemen by a guy whose personal photo he has just stolen.
xposts
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
people are complicated. and i'm sure there are class issues too.i wish this show was as serious and thought out as it wanted to be. There's pretensions of DEEP MEANINGFUL SOCIAL EXPLORATION but it's all gloss
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i dunno about the lane = racist read. think the struggle with the cabdriver was there more to raise questions than to make any clear point.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
dudes it not like people are like "i am going to do this particular thing for a RACIST reason and this other thing for a CLASSIST reason"
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
could be that it was a throwaway scene added to explain how he ends up with the photo and no-one really thought through WHY he would want to keep the stupid wallet in the first place.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
i wish this show was as serious and thought out as it wanted to be. There's pretensions of DEEP MEANINGFUL SOCIAL EXPLORATION but it's all gloss
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
are you joking, what would you have liked to have happened in this situation, a deep meaningful exploration of layne's racism?
$100 in 1966 money is over $600 in 2010 money, and he sort of changed his mind after he noticed how much money was in there.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
perhaps it'd have been more clear if Lane had yelled "hands off, negro lackey! I will make sure this wallet returns to the place from whence it came!"
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
He gives the cabby his card and tips him.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
he sure does.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
"here's a tip, cabby. don't wade into the ilx mad men thread."
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
sort of agree, cuz i do wish it were willing do dig a little deeper, cut a little sharper, but my bigger problem is that it's starting to really feel like a traditional soap opera, in that, despite all the ups and downs, it doesn't really seem to be going anywhere. first few seasons gave me the sense that it's structure was novelistic, that these various pieces were being put in place to some meaningful narrative purpose.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
fucking "it's"
If you found a wallet in the back of a cab and was about to hand it to the cab driver and noticed it had $600 in it, and you were having money problems, what would you do?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
demon struggle
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
ilx mad men threads always make me glad the writers do their own kinda weird, sometimes inscrutable things and not the super obvious TV things everyone seems to always want them to do
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
ilx mad men threads are fun because so much of nothing happens in the show and yet we always have so much to talk about
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
I am throwing my buddha trinket at this thread.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah nothing happened, except the birthday party, the office-switching stuff, Joan bringing the baby into work, a steamy phone conversation, French pop musical number, commentary on the civil rights and occupy struggles, etc.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
Don't forget the rough sex!
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
i think it was a mix of things but obviously a slight distrust of the cab driver had something to do w/ it. i liked this moment for the same reasons as s1ocki.
i liked the quiet irony of when layne dismissed 1/2 of the "negroes" by saying they were only hiring secretaries. even though the context was "civil rights" there are these narrowly defined gender roles (discrimination) that nobody in the room cared to question at that moment.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
also do you think that all the black folks showing up to apply for a job was just a spontaneous reaction to their "equal employment" ad or if it was a concerted action to test the sincerity of that ad?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, that whole "secretaries are female" thing, and that all of the black men (and women!) didn't really question it was a decent commentary on the mixed state of racial/gender/workplace politics
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
despite all the ups and downs, it doesn't really seem to be going anywhere.
Well, the show is going *somewhere*: to the end of the 1960s.
I'm not saying that to be snarky, either. I think a lot of the show's momentum comes from the anticipation of how the characters will react to and interact with the changing times.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
What do all of you think of the way with which the receptionist was canned? She was kind of iffy, but it was kind of a quick turnaround from "we don't need to hire anyone" to "weakest link on the chain just carried a racist statue through the entryway past the group that would be offended, dump her"
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
wait was she canned? i must have missed that.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
first few seasons gave me the sense that it's structure was novelistic, that these various pieces were being put in place to some meaningful narrative purpose
I think, like the Sopranos, they weren't sure where it was all going for the first couple seasons (might get cancelled! or in the Sopranos case have a major player die lol) and now that the show's place is secure and Wiener's given it an end-date, we are going to see some very methodical, multi-season plotting with a definite "narrative purpose".
also s1ocki OTM w this: glad the writers do their own kinda weird, sometimes inscrutable things and not the super obvious TV things everyone seems to always want them to do
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think that's a thing that happened, was it? xps
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
"weakest link on the chain just carried a racist statue through the entryway past the group that would be offended, dump her"
this was totally grounds for firing. she did a really stupid thing, which was immediately identified and she knew she should have known better.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
i couldn't get a bead on how we are supposed to understand megan. was the presence of her arty/homosexual friends meant to underline the generational divide between her and her husband? that struck me as a bit over the top, her coquettish song-and-dance routine included.
i did like how almost everyone in the office had a different assumption of how don must have been reacting to that.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
Well, they had no open positions, then they asked her if she'd just carried it through the entryway past all the waiting people, and then the scene cut to them announcing an open receptionist position.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
oh i see.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
the exchange between Meredith the receptionist and Joan was awesome in its awkwardness.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
this is kind of small potatoes, but i wish they had trusted the audience to get the point re. pete sending roger to staten island without underlining it -- i like when this show dares to handle things much more elliptically than is standard in TV.
The implication was that they solved the "how can we hire a black person without money" problem by taking advantage of the heedless receptionist's errors and firing her.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
that's true, but the first couple seasons were built around these ticking-bomb plot devices: don's secret, peggy's secret, the suggestion that don's life and marriage were collapsing. it seemed as though an examination of an era were being tied to a narrative that was moving in a definite direction, like television's revolutionary road or something. the longer it's gone on, the the less there's any clear sense of overarching narrative structure. not saying that the more prosaic "here's what happened next" stuff that's replaced it is uninteresting or unsatisfying, and it's probably more true to life, but i do find myself a little frustrated by the lack of attention paid to some of the story threads that first attracted me. plus want more betty.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ya i liked that you didnt actually see him at staten island but maybe it would have been better to not see him wake up at all and just have his little line about "pranks" or whatever to acknowledge that it had happened
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i think the whole party scene and the subsequent rape-sex were meant to underline the fact that megan and don have almost nothing in common with one another, aside from mutual physical attraction.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
I am actually content with less Betty in the show, now. The new problem of Don losing focus on his career could be more catastrophic than anything, really. His ability to pull things together has been pretty much key to his persona. I spent half the episode wondering if he'd just turned into a younger Roger Sterling.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
and over the top or not, "zou bisou bisou" was so flippin great
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
lol misread it as 'mutant physical attraction' which also actually kinda otm
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
Don's arc is totally mirroring Sterling, this seems pretty blatant
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
Roger's the only father figure he has etc
announcing an open receptionist position
No - they explicitly said "we can't have one of them sitting out front" and Lane said the job opening was for a secretary.
― Jaq, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
I don't buy the idea that Don and Megan have little in common. Megan's friends are definitely more of the late 60s era, but what about Don's dalliances with the beat crowd? There are also some parallels with Betty and the whole model/actress thing. If anything, they're both born manipulators of people, too. Megan being cold and then manipulative when she mis-stepped isn't that far out of step with early-period Don Draper.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
don's arc is mirroring sterling's, and pete's is starting to mirror don's. the circle of liiife.
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
So will Sterling lose his testicles so he can mirror Cooper?
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
Cooper never married!
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
Is Sterling becoming the new Bert Cooper? Cooper was the one who used to have the large office with art affectations and less client interaction. He's aging into the seniority but without the respect.
lol at testicles
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
er, I didn't read Don and Megan banging on the carpet as rapey at all. Rough, yeah. But big difference between that and Joan and her husband.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
I wasn't going to address that at all since a fictional portrayal is kind of in the eye of the beholder, but that did not really code as rapey to me. Definitely a game to put Don in his place and challenge his aggression.
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it was a dom thing
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
Remember too that Don used to have hookers beat him during sex.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
dom drapentino
― ralphs vons williams (get bent), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
not really outside the realm of normal
― mh, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
okey, fine, rough sex
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
but what about Don's dalliances with the beat crowd?
i don't think he really had anything in common w them, either. he was just intrigued, looking for something new to take his mind off stuff. read peggy as don 2 more than pete.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
My personal feeling on Don Draper, and I maybe 100% alone in this is he's some kind of low-level sociopath or something. He doesn't really engage/care about anyone really at all, and his interactions are more in the manner of someone studying insects. Like he mimics emotion but I'm not sure that he really has them all that deeply, most of the time anyway. Kinda like a 60's Patrick Bateman without a bird's eye view of his inner fantasy life.
I dunno. That might be just me and my overactive imagination.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
no, that's exactly how i see him. but i think he sort of "has things in common" with people to the extent that they respect him, don't poke their noses in shit, and behave in a manner that he thinks of as appropriate. plus be hot and sleep with him. betty seems to have fulfilled all this for quite some time, until she didn't anymore. megan doesn't seem like an ideal replacement.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
dunno how anyone could get the impression Don didn't have feelings for Anna. who was not hot, and didn't sleep with him.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
when DID megan find out about the whole Dick Whittman thing?
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
between season 4 and 5
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
no fair
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
I demand Season 4.5
no between season shenanigans
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
He is not a sociopath to the level of Patrick Bateman, by any stretch. He's definitely pretty emotionally dead, though.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
I also disagree on Anna being not hot, too... maybe not "a dish" but she was a very good looking woman.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
(But also older than Don, and probably a mother figure that he lacked so much in his life)
Anna was p hot. She was the crazy Church wife in True Blood!
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
wait nm
also handicapped, which I'm pretty sure Don did not find attractive
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno - dude's pretty kink!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
compared to the other slinky, usually Jewish women Don had the hots for, Anna wasn't really in that league. I dunno, seems like they went out of their way to demonstrate that Don/Anna's relationship was not sexual in nature, which is all I was getting at. He was not interested in her as either arm candy, wife, or sexual conquest.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
really he loved her because she was the only person who could make him feel like he wasn't a liar/fraud/asshole
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
The department store lady is still my favorite. Rachel?
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
Yep, Rachel Menken. Or Mencken perhaps idk
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
Whenever Don has a platonic relationship with a woman it throws everyone off because it goes against type.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
there's just Peggy and Anna...?
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
hard to say if he genuinely engages with/relates to Peggy or just appreciates her as his lapdog/babysitter
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
Joan. xp
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
hard for me to believe that Don has no human regard for Peggy after s4e6
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
I remember S4E06 being the one where they spent the whole ep together and that it was really, really nice, though all the details have escaped me. Did Don ever piece together that she'd had a baby between S1 & S2?
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
uh Don went to visit her after her pregnancy, he totally knew about the baby.
right, forgot Joan.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
that's the episode. and yes, he visited her in the hospital, there's a flashback sometime in s2. "It will shock you how much this never happened." In s4e06 they obliquely refer to the baby incident. "My mother thinks you're responsible." "Do you know how it was?" "Of course." xp
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
WHO it was
implication is that Don thinks it was Duck tho, not Pete
I need to rewatch older seasons. I've forgotten a lot.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
the point about her carrying it through the office wasn't that they'd have to fire the woman, but that they'd be called out on their racism if they didn't pretend that the ad was for real.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
wrt Don/Peggy, I don't think it really humanized Peggy to him overall. Maybe in the moment, somewhat, but I'd wager that Don just saw it more as confirmation of her being yet another flawed human in the parade of flawed humans that cross his path every day.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, the don = sociopath thing can definitely be overstated, that's why i liked vegegrrl's "low level" modifier. he has feelings, but i just don't think they run particularly deep, and they're subject to revision or abandonment at a moment's notice if they get in the way.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
I just think he sees everything as transient and fleeting and unimportant, that people are too tied to childish feelings or overinflated ideas of importance...he might get caught up in things every now and again, and play at being a normal person, but he's only ever acting, and he can never really fully connect. the remove helps him move on, but it's also WHY he moves on. all the time.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
I thought Megan was sooooooooooo gorgeous until yeah....I started to see the Freddy Mercury thing. But there is also a Muppet that looked that way, can't remember which one.
I gave up thinking she's a time bomb, especially after waiting for the teacher to blow up seasons back.I thought for sure the teacher would really pull something but she just walked away. So not getting my hopes up too much for Freddy Mercury. Hope I will be surprised though.
I didn't see that as a rape scene at all. I thought it was total role playing with Megan knowing exactly what she was doing and Don getting turned on and catching on.
Pete is my new favorite character.
― *tera, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
like i figure don could easily kill a man, a women and perhaps even a child if he felt he had to, and i can't imagine he'd loose too much sleep over it in the long run. i can't really see him putting himself in a situation where such a thing would seem necessary, though, either physically or mentally. he's smarter than that.
i can see him packing up and running off to start a new life if things got weird, becoming the sort of absent father who sends money/calls only once or twice a year.
the biggest counterargument would be his long-term support of and seeming affection for the real mrs. don draper. maybe that was partly an insurance thing though, i dunno.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
thought Megan was sooooooooooo gorgeous until yeah....I started to see the Freddy Mercury thing. ― *tera, Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:11 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah otm
― ༼◍ྀ ౪ ◍ི ༽ (cozen), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
Megan reminds me of Gloria on The Sopranos.
― (Dre) vs. (Eazy), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
zooby zooby zoo is a total earworm.
x-post couldn't see don killing someone, he's too repressed to ever get that angry or conspicuous.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't see that as a rape scene at all.
i didn't mean rape, btw. in saying "rape-sex", i just meant sex that plays with force and refusal. she pretended to resist him, and he physically overpowered her resistance.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
that was my point. he'd never allow it to come to that, but if for whatever reason it did, it wouldn't ruffle him overmuch, except in the pragmatic "how do i deal with this problem?" sense.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
just say dom/sub or something. "rape sex" isn't a kind of sex.
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno, i think he'd be horrified. he is not a violent person to me. i think he is fundamentally a good person, but struggling under the weight of some severe identity problems and mental problems, which the show has only scratched the surface of. i think it's why he's such a believable character, tons of people are like this and prob way moreso in that era, but it will be a major challenge if they ever try to unpick him more. i mean, even the viewers can't be too sure of what lies beneath with don.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
ookey, fair enuf. do think a fair number of folks like to play at exactly that sort of thing, though this wasn't an example.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
i feel this push and pull as to whether or not to try to understand "fifth season don draper" in terms of what "first season don draper," etc. experienced and did. you could argue that one of the nice things about television is that characters have these long histories that could be brought to bear (in the show itself or in viewers' imaginations) in terms of understanding their actions in recent episodes. and certainly mad men makes use of that. (though i'm not always sure how often we are actually being consciously cued to recall a particular interaction from several seasons ago vs. we choose as an audience to recall that interaction in the process of trying to understand/anticipate the current episode/season.)
but at the same time both creators and audiences don't generally have long, very accurate memories and it's equally true that the don draper character we watch in this season is not, and doesn't have to be, the same don draper as we watched in earlier seasons. his character has changed not just because of some implied or explicitly stated process of internal development, but because the interests of the writers, the contours of the drama, and in some sense the demands/needs of the audience have demanded that change. in other words the shifts in don draper's character--the seeming inconsistencies--don't have to "code" as realistic because TV drama is not a fundamentally realistic form. we don't engage with it exactly or even nearly as we would with a person IRL, even if there are inevitable, useful, and innneresting ways that the two types of engagement overlap.
all this to say that there are two, not necessarily incompatible options:
A) the apparent shift in the way don relates to the world that transpires over the course of (and between) seasons can be explained "realistically," as the kind of drift and complexity that "normal" humans can be said to undergo/have in the context of this ever changing world in which we live in.
B) the shift cannot really be explained realistically, but we go with it (or not) b/c we enjoy (or don't) the way the drama in its present form engages us.
i think that the artistic prestige that's conferred upon people like matt weiner makes it somewhat necessary for them to explain things in terms of (A) (since "artistic quality" is traditionally cast in terms of formal coherence/consistency and indeed consistency of authorial vision). and much of the audience is likely to go along with that. but i think it's just as likely that (B) is what's happening. it's interesting how more "low-brow" shows will actually make these shifts more baldly ("yeah, we got rid of that character because audiences hated her"/"we decided to make john more likable this season") because they are under less (internal and external) pressure to provide high-minded justifications for their artistic choices.
anyhow.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
many xposts to *tera: I have a vague hope that Megan is the new hot-chick with the crazy eyes, who eventually burns down Sterling Cooper or runs down Betty Draper in a car or something.
I doubt it. She's too mild and it's not like her emotional fluctuations last episode were any big woop given what a PIA Don Draper is on a day to day basis, but still. I can dream.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno, i think he'd be horrified. he is not a violent person to me
I remember him being pretty unpleasantly physical to Bobbie Barrett that time in the restaurant. Like, he didn't just put his hand where it didn't belong, he hurt her. I could see him doing major damage to someone if he had to.
― trishyb, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
and only Don Draper would have an awesome party in an amazing apartment and be all hate parties lemme eat worms I hate u
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe now when I tell ppl i hate birthdays they will just think i'm sexy.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
i think he is fundamentally a good person, but struggling under the weight of some severe identity problems and mental problems, which the show has only scratched the surface of.
agree that he's not violent by nature, but this doesn't mean that he lacks the capacity. i do think that don's fundamental identity is very much in question, though. he's shown signs of decency and concern for his fellow man, but also of a kind of creepily adaptable moral vacancy. agree, too, that this isn't terribly unusual, that if don really is a "low level sociopath", then an awful lot of people share the affliction.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:31 (eleven years ago) link
it's interesting how more "low-brow" shows will actually make these shifts more baldly ("yeah, we got rid of that character because audiences hated her"/"we decided to make john more likable this season") because they are under less (internal and external) pressure to provide high-minded justifications for their artistic choices.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:26 PM (4 minutes ago)
for ex, the distinct nicening of steve carell's michael scott after the first season of the american version of the office. no explanation needed or given.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:33 (eleven years ago) link
wrt Don/Peggy, I don't think it really humanized Peggy to him overall
yeah I think this is debatable. what that episode really did was humanize Don for PEGGY. Don spends most of the episode treating her like shit/being a complete asshole, then breaks down, cries, passes out in her lap. Wakes up, tells her to go home, then gets back to work like nothing happened.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
actually I had horrible flashbacks to highschool with Don's I Hate Birthdays steez -- I called my friend to wish her a happy birthday and she hung up on me, and wouldn't answer the phone when I tried to call back. I got mad at her the next day, and she was all HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU PEOPLE THAT I HATE BIRTHDAYS FOR YOU TO STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF MY BIRTHDAYand I felt really terrible.
didn't lead to any dom-sexytimes resolution though :/
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
people who regularly make a super big deal out of HATING STUFF, entirely refusing to engage on any positive level w the HATED THING, and making sure that other people are at all time 100% fully aware of the INTENSE HATE are just the worst
i hate them
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
At first I was like, yes but we like you and we like that you were born! don't u see?she didn't see.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 22:58 (eleven years ago) link
The signs were there for Megan to see, though. His children bought him a nice, low-key present and said happy birthday and he was fine with that and not at all insistent on any kind of celebration (beyong going out for cheesecake in lieu of birthday cake), and Peggy warned Megan that he wouldn't like the party. It was her own fault.
― trishyb, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
Roger ruining the surprise was awes
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
just have his little line about "pranks" or whatever to acknowledge that it had happened
Nah – when Pete had his giraffe secretary put the fake meeting down I was shouting “c’mon make it believable, Roger’s not THAT dumb” – if they hadn’t shown Roger getting up, then the “prank” line would have read like him smacking Pete for so clumsily trying to pwn him, not him wryly acknowledging “ok Campbell you win this one, quality pwning lil homie”
Also I very much liked that it showed that the harsh punishment consisted of making Roger get up at the same time one day that Pete has to every day, to commute in from his hated suburban lovenest.
No way, Bobbie was mega into it, not in pain.
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
I assumed Roger just wouldn't bother cos it was at 6am
― Number None, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 00:46 (eleven years ago) link
“c’mon make it believable, Roger’s not THAT dumb”
i dunno. he obviously once had hella game, but his brain's been pickling for years.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 00:48 (eleven years ago) link
last year i was living in NYC and commuting to Greenwich, CT every day for work. i drove, which was bad enough (~hour commute if traffic was heavy), but ten or twenty times i had to take the train, and even with 2012 trains + scheduling (lulz, this is public transportation we're talking about - trains - probably the same exact technology as in the 60s tbh) it could be a grueling 2+ hour trip door to door.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
i think the fact that pete obviously pines to be living in the city again makes him much more sympathetic
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:02 (eleven years ago) link
also there is really this sense with successful people (admen, doctors, lawyers, etc.) that moving to the 'burbs is somehow something that just _has_ to happen, esp. once you have a child. so many folks i know insisted that they would stay in the city and then, sure enough, moved to winnetka or whatever as soon as they started having (or planning) children. there must be some very real pressure to do this (spoken or most likely unspoken). it adds a ton of hassle in terms of commute and having the mortgage hanging over your head means you can't take a step off of the treadmill.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
really missing betty in this episode - she's the character with the most psychological depth. she's a vital hinge in the show and amazingly well acted by january jones. a lot of the characters are too "one note": i don't believe pete and i think the actor is particularly bad but it's probably not his fault that he's as bad as he is. i'm kinda surprised that they let it pass, though.
― jed_, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
someone who loves betty and hates pete is watching a different show from me
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:17 (eleven years ago) link
I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Betty
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:21 (eleven years ago) link
oh you can hate her but you can believe her. pete is just some thin pastiche and badly acted to boot.
― jed_, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:25 (eleven years ago) link
rongrongrong
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:26 (eleven years ago) link
― *tera, Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:11 PM (Yesterday)
Pretty much. I loved the scenes of him and his commuting buddies.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:27 (eleven years ago) link
And yes, he's an excellent actor. Particularly in the last season (and this one too by the looks of things)
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:28 (eleven years ago) link
pete is the best.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:28 (eleven years ago) link
i kinda feel like i totally understand pete. he's slimy and gross, but he's slimy and gross in a way that is incredibly relatable to me
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:28 (eleven years ago) link
betty is a cipher tbh
there is nothing badly acted about Pete
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
i think there's a fair bit of bad acting in the show though, it's not just pete.
― jed_, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
i still like it.
― jed_, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:30 (eleven years ago) link
there must be some very real pressure to do this (spoken or most likely unspoken).
Tbf, a lot of people do it b/c of a belief (real or imagined) in the superiority of the suburban schools. Although I suppose if you're well-off, you might also have the option of sending your kids to private school.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:31 (eleven years ago) link
i kind of love betty, kind of hate her. i liked the character a great deal in the fist couple seasons, but after her break w don, i got the feeling that matthew weiner was working through some issues wr2 the way the character was written. she came to seem worse and worse as a person, which would be okay in general, but something in the way it was handled made me feel sympathetic towards what i viewed as "the real betty", as though we were only seeing her through the scrim of weiner's weird hostility.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:32 (eleven years ago) link
She's well drawn but heart always sinks a bit when she comes on screen cos I know something depressing is likely to happen soon.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:33 (eleven years ago) link
i would not be disappointed if january jones was never in another episode of mad men. i'm sure she'll be back next week tho :/
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:33 (eleven years ago) link
dunno if we'll see much at all of Betty this season what with January Jones having a kid and the character having little or no function in the show anymore
― Number None, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
She was not very good at all in that X-Men flick.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
Though I dunno if I blame Jones for that as it's really not her milieu
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:35 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, but she was horrible in that x-men flick
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:36 (eleven years ago) link
but she's awesome in mad man.
― jed_, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:36 (eleven years ago) link
don't like Pete as a person, looooove Pete as a character and Kartheiser is a virtuoso at playing a huge range of delicate variances on his weaseliness and entitlement
can very happily see no more of Betty than that porch light all year
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
Betty is the poop in the punchbowl
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:40 (eleven years ago) link
she was good in The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada but that role basically was Betty Draper by any other name
― Number None, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:41 (eleven years ago) link
i think there's a problem of register in the show where some of the people are acting natural and others are acting like in the old movies.
the (older) secretary (the one who took the $50 off cooper to buy a hat) was awesome.
― jed_, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
jed otm. both about register dissonance and the (older) secretary. while pete is an interesting character and i don't think of kartheiser as a bad actor, necessarily, i'm never convinced that i'm watching/listening to a real human being. i always see the uncomfortable attempt so seem, to deliver. this is certainly in keeping with the character, but not in a way that seems genuine.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:52 (eleven years ago) link
this is probably true of the cast in general, though. they all seem like "tv people", with the exception of a few minor characters. naturalism clearly isn't the point. even in that context, though, pete's unnaturalism stands out.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:56 (eleven years ago) link
everybody is always putting on an act, everybody is don draper
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
can you elaborate? perhaps to 450 pages?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:58 (eleven years ago) link
http://images.contentreserve.com/ImageType-100/0128-1/%7BA3410374-80FD-457C-888C-568D598C88A7%7DImg100.jpg
you're all crazy. Pete has the natural unease and daily panic of a man who has invested all his energy into pretending he's in control. It's all in his eyes and reactions, he's SO good. And not that I'm biased but Kartheiser was practically a kid when he was in Angel and he nailed the hell out of that too.
I dislike Betty Draper's character which means it's well written enough for me to have a reaction, and I can't stand irl January Jones so it all becomes a convergence of dislike when she's on screen. She is v pretty, she wears nice sundresses, and she sometimes looks nice when she actually smiles. That is as far as I will go :)
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:59 (eleven years ago) link
i think jones is kind of crappy actress.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 02:01 (eleven years ago) link
she always seems to play the obvious emotion, and there's rarely a suggestion of conflicted feelings emanating from her body language or countenance. it's all produced by the context.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 02:02 (eleven years ago) link
karthesier may not create a "naturalistic" character (though pete as a construct is plenty plausible) but he is impossibly entertaining and interesting and that's what counts IMO
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 02:03 (eleven years ago) link
Footnotes of Mad Men is back in action again: http://madmenunbuttoned.com/
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, that i agree with. i don't always enjoy pete's presence as much as you and VG seem to, but kartheiser certainly gives him more layers than jones does betty draper.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, there's something disheveled or unstable about Pete. But he seems to be doing good, and he's a hard worker. Feels like every time something good happens to him I have to feel happy for him cos things may crumble to pieces at any time.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 03:32 (eleven years ago) link
^^This. On the same tip, loved the whole wtf?-ness of this incident:
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1hljuavC31qzoaqio1_500.gif
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 03:36 (eleven years ago) link
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 03:37 (eleven years ago) link
I was hoping he'd have a big swollen nose/bandage for the rest of the episode at least, or some kleenex shoved up his nose.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 03:38 (eleven years ago) link
ya - i'll *start* liking him in a weird way, but then he'll run off and molest an au pair and i'm right back to loathing him more than ever before.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 03:40 (eleven years ago) link
^ the more you watch that, the worse it gets
actually, it's pretty bad to begin with, but it still gets progressively worse despite
― kelpolaris, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
That trip and hit nose thing is very Dick Van Dyke gone wrong....
― *tera, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 05:50 (eleven years ago) link
Pete's giraffe secretary!!! I kept asking T. what's wrong with that girl, why don't I like looking at her??
― JacobSanders, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 05:52 (eleven years ago) link
omg
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 05:57 (eleven years ago) link
she is pretty
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
whatever weird crap they pull or do not pull with megan, working with and living with same person is a time bomb. especially when other people are between you in the chain of command. you could already see strong hints of this.
― goole, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
pete's secretary may be an alien, but i have no problem with her plans for the human race
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 06:16 (eleven years ago) link
goole: This is true...
― *tera, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 06:30 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not sure I'd diagnose Don as a low-level sociopath. I certainly wouldn't call him emotionless. Being a 'whorechild' and growing up in the circumstances he did, he'll always feel like a fraud to some degree. I'm not sure if it's as much about "being found out" as much as it is revealing who he is, even if he doesn't quite know that. The early seasons really played up that "American Dream" business in that here's a guy who came from nothing and then he saw an opportunity and just took it, but the consequences for him, psychologically, have never really gone away. He has an innate ability to tap into something that people respond to, and he knows how to work a room and play 'the game', but all that bullshit artifice strains him. His character through the whole series has been this push-pull between what he believes is expected and 'should' be (that very particular American dream-lifestyle) and how he feels he is. He gets unnecessarily shitty when he feels somebody is out-of-line with the lifestyle as he thinks it should be, even if he doesn't quite belief it. He's built up a lot of defences, which is why it was really awkward and horrible to see him fall off the deep end with the drinking last season, or see him walking into work hand-in-hand with his new wife in this episode. It was especially horrible when he was confronted with having work people in his home, something that Megan didn't understand at all.
I also think he has a deep understanding and love for Peggy, and he's probably shitty to her in a boss-way because either a.) he thinks its good for her or b.) he hates that he lets his guard down with someone and overcompensates.
I'm really interested to see how the Megan relationship will work. At the end of last season, I wasn't the only going "oh god Don" when he chose the young, beautiful secretary over the (slightly) more age-appropriate marketing psychologist who seemed to have a really good understanding of him as a person (but she also clashed with his ideals of what a mother should be, thereby bumping up against his view on what 'family' life should be). He seems to be trying though, and being honest with her about Dick Whitman and all that could lead to some interesting places. He's making an effort to be more open, but is also not entirely comfortable with it. I think she could be good for him in a way. She's very naive though. Pare is great at it though. She gets that balance of naive youth and self-assured right. So far, at least. We'll see where the character goes.
I have more to say on Pete, but maybe later. I will just say that I thought Kartheiser was terrible on Angel, and not very good in the woeful Crime and Punishment in Suburbia, but he's very good here.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 07:33 (eleven years ago) link
it's funny how don is really the villain in this show, but all the blame for his villainy is heaped, both by the writers and the fans, on those around him, especially betty. it's good to be (or look like) the king.
― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 08:21 (eleven years ago) link
Dunno, sort of think between-season shenanigans are kinda of essential now they've made Sally a main character and they need the plot to advance at more or less the same pace as the actress is ageing. Otherwise you get the problem they had with Walt in Lost. And it stretches credibility that Don would keep the Dick Whitman thing quiet after doing that ruined his first marriage. Really most of this double-header was about showing us what's happened to the characters and how they've changed in the intervening year or so.
I think Megan is meant to be a lot more intelligent and self-assured than people give her credit for, and she's just seen as the airhead secretary that married the boss. There's a moment early on in S4 when we've barely seen Megan, and people are talking about Peggy's new writer friends and Megan just goes "she's kind of pretentious", when casually calling people out on their pretensions is something that just never happens in Mad Men.
I love with Pete, how he's the conscientious worker who's really good and probably keeping the company afloat AND he's a liberal and at the same time he's clearly an arsehole and a slimeball.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 10:28 (eleven years ago) link
The best Pete moment is when his father in law calls him an asshole after being screwed over by him, and Pete just grins, gives a shrug and carries on making cocktails.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 10:33 (eleven years ago) link
I've liked Pete for ages, yes he's a dick, but he tries so hard to be better at life. Think him and trudy's dance at roger's wedding was all time classic. They do have the best marriage in the show too, fwiw in this show.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 12:42 (eleven years ago) link
isnt it more pete trying so hard to be better at work moreso than life though - likewise his supposed liberalism is one part greater generational awareness than his peers and nine parts his figuring our which are the newer and better marketing demographics the company needs to be aiming at. unless i'm forgetting something everything "good" about pete is still filtered through the prism of his professional vanity and desire for oneupmanship rather than any real empathy
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 13:00 (eleven years ago) link
also his and trudy's marriage is pitiful!
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 13:02 (eleven years ago) link
Poor Pete is always trying to live up to somebody. Usually somebody rich and waspy.
― trishyb, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 13:03 (eleven years ago) link
The only reason Pete and Trudy have the best marriage in the show is because Pete hasn't been caught out about the two or three other women he's fucked.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 13:19 (eleven years ago) link
And y'know that thing with the secret lovechild conceived a few days before his wedding.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 13:21 (eleven years ago) link
and, not to keep harping in this, the au pair.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
in a way i sort of don't think it's even about pete's big awful mistakes, it's the thousand little awkwardnesses between him and her in every scene and the almost cowardly sense of duty that stops him ever doing a don and walking away. the fact that their wan sham of a marriage is so very nearly kind of normal, and that pete could conceivably be seen as a "family man", makes it all the more tragic
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like the writers/directors have made a Betty character that plays to the actress's flaws -- as a character, she's fairly reserved, works hard at being proper, has this family drama (her family, not her family with Don) that leaves her emotionally drained. I'm not saying for sure that January Jones has a limited range, but she does best when she's playing this character who lives in a very limited range. The greatest moments of the Betty character haven't been ones where she's conveyed an emotion through words and body language, but ones where she's done an action that seems out of character. The shooting a gun thing, the interactions with Glen, hooking up with some dude in a bar, or manipulating the whole situation with her fellow equestrians.
― mh, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 14:19 (eleven years ago) link
I think Pete actually likes his wife and isn't bold enough or useful enough at this point in his life to have any other type of relationship! The only times he's been out on the prowl or acted like he's rising in station he's been mostly swatted down. I mean, the Peggy thing happened because they were both so low on the ladder and he was able to fake some level of confidence that he should be able to do such things and she wasn't wiser, yet.
He's been repeatedly trying to make power plays and for the most part, they haven't done much more than natural growth in his career would have done, anyway. People work and get better at their jobs and go up the company hierarchy if they have skill. Pete thinks that by throwing what he thinks are big breaks on the table that he's going to get to jump rungs.
― mh, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 14:23 (eleven years ago) link
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1i1wevx071r1bvoxo1_r1_500.gif
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy otm
― mh, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
In an interesting reversal of life meets art I am fighting being given my own office.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
because....
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
Because:
I want to know what the team I manage is getting up to, they spend so much time on the floor If I'm not in with them I'd never see them
35 years of OB research says individual offices are bad for network forming and communications
I don't actually like working on my own
This isn't the 60s so I couldn't have a cocktail cabinet and our sexual harassment policy probably prohibits any goings on.
Even if I had an office I couldn't have a window as our new plant has been cleverly designed so there has to be crawl spaces for the fire rises against the walls. An openable window is my only dream as far as office space goes.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
i had a nightmare last night that i came into my office and it had been subdivided for four people
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
No desire for an ant farm or bonsai tree? (xp)
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
At the current location I dug a pond and stream system and have planters full of tomatoes and melons. I plan to do similar at the new place.
I did think about executive toys though:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/315RDJsXI%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpghttp://wd4eui.com/Pictures/steam_engine.jpghttp://s2.hubimg.com/u/542481_f260.jpg
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
More ILX time if your monitor away from the hallway.
― (Dre) vs. (Eazy), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
Not to derail too much but in our old floorplan our boss had the office at the end of our cubicle row, his door was always open so it was almost like a default 'cul de sac' cubicle, we could go in anytime and talk, he could hear/see us from where he sat, and it was really a good setup. Not always great for him getting work done, but our group always worked collaboratively and he encouraged it so it didn't seem to bother him.
Then they changed the layout, and now he's in an office away from our cubicle row, behind a wall of cubicles so we can't see/hear him and we may not see him for days unless we have to go into his office with a question or if he comes by to ask us something.
it's just kinda sucky.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
I hate cubicle farms, have a hard time believing they actually are good for "network forming and communications" or whatever
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
I imagine their benefits are outweighed by the morale-crushing ant-farm impersonality
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
speaking of offices... did anyone else notice the decor in Harry's office?i loved it - complete opposite of 60's-trendy, like Rogers's office for example.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
I am also anti-cubicle farms. I'm all for open plan. The highly functional manufacturing organisations I benchmark all have open plan, well lit engineering offices. Break-out rooms for meetings/quiet work sure but very open environment.
Harry's office was great but I can't help thinking his mother did his decorating.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
i know everyone hates him here because he's unattractive - but dude knows how to classy-up an office!
xpost
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
ha ha
yeah, it was pretty fusty. Gold framed picture etc.
― Number None, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
HE HAS A WEE CANON ON HIS DESK!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:52 (eleven years ago) link
also lol at Harry's work clothes being too large for him now
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:52 (eleven years ago) link
I like harry as much as Pete, I think I oscillate on a spectrum between their two characters.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
Does anyone have a gif of Pete's wistful sigh at Don's party?
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
i loved that
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
loved the argument between the two (Harry and Pete)Harry: i'm giving you my officePete: screw you.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
^^^secretary was carrying a box with Pete's gun in it
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
He's had to keep that gun at the office for 6 years now.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
this seems broadly relevant to discussions of don: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/character-and-its-discontents/
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
sorta hope the series ends with Pete losing his shit and blasting Don out the window with his rifle
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
can't really see that happening - maybe more like barging into Don's office and nattering away at him until Don eventually loses it and hurls himself out the window.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I can't really see it happening either it's just funny to envision
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
pete drops out grows a beard, becomes charlie manson
― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
regardless of pete's indiscretions, it's still the only marriage where there's actual support happening.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
Pete Campbell is our successful marriage role model.
― mh, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
:/
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
never said that. fuck you all i am raging with every one of you.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
this show's aggressive cynicism about marriage is actually one of the least convincing things about it, i think. that doesn't mean they have to present several "model marriages"--but i'd buy it more if they presented at least a few that were largely functional.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
i don't see it as cynicism abt marriage, really. i think it's a combination of basic soap opera relationship dynamics (the more conflict, betrayal and duplicity, the better) & cynicism abt the culture of madison avenue in the 60s. the guys around whom the show revolves are for the most part ambitious, selfish, petty and rather venal. makes sense that they'd have troubled marriages.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno i think a lot of what's depicted is more in the realm of generalized "bad male behavior" than anything specific to madison avenue.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, that too, but there is something distinctive abt the entitlement of manhattan power-business types. overlapping circles: men, businessmen, 60s businessmen, madison avenue ad guys.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
pssh, Pete's still married and has a cute wife and a kid, his life is awesome
― mh, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
otoh, he's a horrible, egocentric geek with frustrated delusions of grandeur, his life is hell
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
He's one of those people who is never going to be happy with what he has.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
Could see Pete getting involved with Est or some sort of encounter group in the 1970s
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
yes plz. would watch the fuck out of that plot development
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
we need cult sideplots!
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
moonies please!
I thought something along those lines was going to happen when Don was crashing in Cali with those strange people in the house with the pool.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
The problem with EST is that it doesn't exist until the 70s.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 22:10 (eleven years ago) link
elvis's "in the 70's" clarified that :)
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
wan sham of a marriage
yeah this. Trudy is so good for him, encouraging his better tendencies and gently guiding him away from - not scolding or chiding him for - the worse ones she sees. and he genuinely likes and appreciates this, and her, and their life together. He rankles about ways she wants to live that he would prefer not to, but he does come to accept compromise, and not just add it to his pile of injustices re The Rise Of Pete Campbell to seethe about.
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
I think the difference is that Pete and Trudy actually relate to each others as adults and peers - whatever their respective shortcomings (Pete's infidelities, Trudy's waspy conservatism) - and that's pretty much not the case with any of the other marriages depicted (which is really not that many - Joan and Dr. Rapey, Roger and Jane, Don and Betty/Megan, but that's pretty much it. Haven't seen much of Lane and his wife)
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
lane and his wife pretty clearly have no affection for each other whatever
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
oh I dunno. they've only been onscreen together for a grand total of like 5 minutes at the most
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
and in those couple of minutes it was established that they cannot stand one another
― Clay, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not gonna dispute that - I'm just saying the body of evidence for all the other couples is a lot bigger and more definitive
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
i wonder what ken + his significant other are like together. i wonder a lot about ken. what kind of guy is he?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, ken and his wife--from what we can tell--seem pretty tight.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:53 (eleven years ago) link
adirondack chairs on the porch, reading the sunday papers...is how I picture the young Cosgroves
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
ken needs to be brought to the fore, i think. great character. good actor too.
― jed_, Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
I agree I would love to see Ken Cosgrove get more of a storyline this season.
― *tera, Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
On the surface of it easily the nicest guy at SDCP.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
his wife was the younger sister in 10 Things I Hate About You.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
my favorite character in this episode was Don and Megan's apartment, fyi.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
prob best known to ppl my age as alex mack xp
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
that apartment was amazing! we wanted to know if the apartment had all those stairs so ppl could sit on them and look cool
― Mordy, Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
alex mack OMG
sunken living room, fireplace, balcony, a white carpet to bone down on...
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 29 March 2012 00:41 (eleven years ago) link
a dirty white carpet even
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 29 March 2012 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
soooooooo dirty
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 29 March 2012 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
The apt was very Playboy After Dark, especially with the band playing at the party. I wish I still had the DVD with all the old Playboy After Dark shows. Had good interviews and music numbers.
― *tera, Thursday, 29 March 2012 05:38 (eleven years ago) link
There's quite a few of them on YouTube. Always liked this one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOrUR54HKwA
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 29 March 2012 06:39 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy, Thursday, March 29, 2012 12:33 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark
SO OTM
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Thursday, 29 March 2012 06:55 (eleven years ago) link
In so many of them Barbie seemed to space out and would stand there catching flies. I remember there being some awkward moments between guests as well, just like at a real party. Sometimes a guest just took all the air out of the room.
Lenny Bruce was one of my favorite guests. I seem to remember Bill Cosby looking sharp and being cool in a few of them. It's been awhile since I have watched these.
― *tera, Thursday, 29 March 2012 09:22 (eleven years ago) link
Kenny basically exists as Mr Squeaky Clean to irritate the other characters. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a perfect marriage.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Thursday, 29 March 2012 10:42 (eleven years ago) link
i doubt it, his moonlighting as an LA cop is likely tearing them apart
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
Pete's scheming is entertaining. It reminds me of Robert Morse's character in "How to Succeed."
― sarahell, Thursday, 29 March 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
Won't be watching for a while but its sad (from wha I've read) that Betty won't be given much time on the show. The character is v underrated, I love the depth given to the housewifery manias!
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 29 March 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
The show writes for her really well and she's excellent at what she's asked to do...assuming they write her to be a shallow bitch who repulses me in new ways every other episode.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 29 March 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
None of these ppl are that likeable -- Betty is on par for the course.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
agree everybody's fairly loathsome - with the exception of Peggy
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
I honestly like Joan and Peggy, and perhaps Don's old secretary who died at her desk and Don's newest secretary that he shares with Roger. But yeah, I see what you mean.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
Trudy is very likable to me, even tho she's a nazi.
― Mordy, Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
I can't tell if my feelings about Trudy are shaded by my feelings about Annie on Community (and/or Alison Brie in general). Those are positive feelings, btw.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
@trudy'sboobs
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
they're trying hard to dull her looks down this ep
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
Even in the psychedelic kaftan she was wearing?
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
Pete was looking chubby too
― Number None, Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
Harry gave him an office and a spare tire.
― mizzell, Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
Pete's going bald this season.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
man if hamm was willing to start paring his hair back and that became a major plot point how many fucking essays would that shit spawn
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:29 (eleven years ago) link
I love Trudy's steez
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 29 March 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
finally caught up w/this
OMG at "say hello to Lurch and Morticia"
― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
I wouldn't assume that Betty is being given a smaller role, only because Christopher Stanley (Henry Francis) is now credited as a regular cast member.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
(Unless the idea there is that Betty is on-screen no more than Henry is, and they don't want to officially demote January Jones, so they'll promote Christopher Stanley instead.)
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
You guys, I think about the politics of TV credits a lot.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
alex mack otm
― ༼◍ྀ ౪ ◍ི ༽ (cozen), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
did they even show betty's face in the preview for next week's ep? i remember her voice but no actual image of her
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
I am cool with less Betty and twice as much Sally
― mh, Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
btw Sally is a better actress
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Io1CGSJvfU
― International Simon (admrl), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
the cruelty of truthbomb
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 29 March 2012 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
Weiner said they shot a bunch of Betty stuff early bcz of pregnancy and it'll basically be salted into the episodes where they have room
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Friday, 30 March 2012 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
salty betty
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 March 2012 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
I do hate her but I would lick her
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Friday, 30 March 2012 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
as lol as that is, kinda otm
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 March 2012 02:23 (eleven years ago) link
baby daddy on show was definitely Don, in real life ~it is a mystery~
― mh, Friday, 30 March 2012 02:39 (eleven years ago) link
just saw this. liked gutkbe's post, and s1ocki's
― D-40, Sunday, 1 April 2012 08:21 (eleven years ago) link
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Sunday, 1 April 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
i lolled when harry asked roger "why do you carry so much cash??"
― D-40, Sunday, 1 April 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
whores, duh
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Monday, 2 April 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
ballin', iirc
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 2 April 2012 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
you don't look cool
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 2 April 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^^^
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 2 April 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
betty looks miserable
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 2 April 2012 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
totally forgot this was on with all my GoT excitement!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 2 April 2012 02:35 (eleven years ago) link
lolromney
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 2 April 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
So they went the Frasier route.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 2 April 2012 03:17 (eleven years ago) link
The Lurch and Morticia comment makes more sense now that I've seen the house.
So was Betty wearing her real baby fat or did they just put her in costume?
― *tera, Monday, 2 April 2012 03:43 (eleven years ago) link
Loving' the jew.
― LaMonte, Monday, 2 April 2012 03:49 (eleven years ago) link
Also, I think the Who would be more likely to do a Heinz beans ad.
― LaMonte, Monday, 2 April 2012 03:56 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWuotfT_j6s
― s.clover, Monday, 2 April 2012 04:12 (eleven years ago) link
This brings us back to the dinner/supper thread
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 04:27 (eleven years ago) link
lolromney part was funny.
Loved watching Pete burn Roger in front of the whole office.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 2 April 2012 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
best: Megan gamely saying "yes" in response to something Mrs. Heinz said in just the same way Don gamely says "yes" when he just needs the conversation to continue.
worst: Betty eating ice cream was too """on the nose"""
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
Don Draper saying "yes" is like my favorite thing about this show
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 04:29 (eleven years ago) link
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, April 2, 2012 12:28 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I read this as her previously overstepping/being too modern ("well, don was divorced...") and realizing that "yes" is the correct answer, even if she found work talk exciting from a professional pov.
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 2 April 2012 04:40 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't Betty "Yes" her way through dinners just like that in season 1 or am I not remembering correctly?
― *tera, Monday, 2 April 2012 04:51 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, but I think she had two modes because I remember her asking which kind of wife she should be a dinner they were going to.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 2 April 2012 04:55 (eleven years ago) link
bettybot, meet romneybot!
― Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 05:04 (eleven years ago) link
worry about a season long fat-suit tbh.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 2 April 2012 05:05 (eleven years ago) link
the fat is a metaphor for america getting sluggish and needing revolution do u c
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Monday, 2 April 2012 05:10 (eleven years ago) link
She said yes to Mrs. Heinz saying soemething like "We're boring hou, aren't we?", which seemed tactless.
― )Dre( vs. (Eazy), Monday, 2 April 2012 05:14 (eleven years ago) link
better than peggy's fatsuit
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 2 April 2012 05:26 (eleven years ago) link
totally lolled at don and harry getting white castle
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
film wonkery : john slattery is (assuming the DP didn't "actually" direct his episode) a better director than Hamm.
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 2 April 2012 06:21 (eleven years ago) link
The Tradewinds!
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 2 April 2012 09:17 (eleven years ago) link
peggy eating Bugles !
― johnny crunch, Monday, 2 April 2012 11:14 (eleven years ago) link
betty i mean, damn
-do you want the last one?
-there were twenty! I thought you were getting them for your family
― pandemic, Monday, 2 April 2012 11:29 (eleven years ago) link
Trade Winds = Spector acolytes/songwriting team
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 April 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
so how do we feel about Ginsberg?
― http://i.imgur.com/TBVkw.gif (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
kind of irritating so far. a little too young Woody Allen.
― dmr, Monday, 2 April 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
felt like Roger's "When is everything going get back to normal?" / clinging to the ledge while the young kids step on my toes monologue was key
― dmr, Monday, 2 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah Roger's been dropping hints about jumping out the window for like two seasons.
and of course nothing ever gets "back to normal".
― http://i.imgur.com/TBVkw.gif (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
kind of a boring episode. was afraid there was going to be a Mother's Little Helper montage for a second. also lol fat betty
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 April 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
you think slattery's gonna kill himself this season? not a bad idea really.
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
well what does he have to live for, exactly
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
major role on a hit tv show iirc
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
Roger's too vain to be suicidal. Even if he hates his job and his wife, he knows he has a natural charm and can get by on it for all his remaining years.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 2 April 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
Plus he's not really all that reflective. He just moves on, he's not a dweller like Don.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, that too. Roger has no mood swings because he's mostly oblivious to what's going on around him.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 2 April 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
serious question: has any sympathetic adult character on this show ever been seen taking a bite of food? seems like people only get to eat on the show when the writers want to show them in an unflattering light.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
sympathetic?
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 2 April 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
i mean everyone hates harry, and lolwhitecastle rite?
we're meant to hate betty, and there's the eating from last night, and that one episode where she does it with a stranger in a bar (that whore!) and eats out of the refrigerator when she gets home.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
seems like people only get to eat on the show when the writers want to show them in an unflattering light.
grandpa and Sally eating ice cream
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
what about the chicken kiev on don's date? or when betty orders room service with don. the new guy's rye bread and farmers cheese?
good one xp
― mizzell, Monday, 2 April 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
take it from a nut, utz are better than nuts
― mizzell, Monday, 2 April 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
there are plenty of scenes that I can think of that take place at meals, but I'm not sure about the actually seeing people eat thing
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
but I'm not sure about the actually seeing people eat thing
the "actually eating" is what i'm talking about. and i know sally has gotten to eat, that's why i was asking about adults.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't they show Don and Roger sucking down oysters prior to their stairway to vomit?
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
Oh wait, unflattering. Never mind.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
this is something Sopranos conscientiously did all the time but tbf it's pretty rare on TV shows, not just Mad Man. It's really hard to shoot scenes of people with their mouths full.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
like, I dunno how much I would read into it thematically
i know, it's just something i think about from time to time -- how shows (etc) sometimes use food as a device to help make someone seem more unlikeable.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
harry eats the most onscreen, also talks about food the most
― mizzell, Monday, 2 April 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1v2h8T0vG1qaj9lko1_500.gif
― mizzell, Monday, 2 April 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
yes, his wife is "making" him lose weight and he's obv such a weak person that all he wants to do outside of the house is cheat on his diet.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
(and he's already cheated on his wife, speaking of things that harry cheats on)
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
harry actually told his wife that he cheated (not sure why i always want to stick up for him).
― mizzell, Monday, 2 April 2012 20:02 (eleven years ago) link
i wanted to stick up for him cuz he's a perennial loser, but the thing last week with megan was... well, him digging his own grave.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
And he was very remorseful, which is why when he started getting really creepy with women I felt a bit let down by him. xp
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
pete has gone from being a weasel to being likeable, and he's been pretty creepy with women too.
actually most of these characters (including/especially peggy) are sexual weirdos.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
Fans of the highly addictive TV series about the advertising business in the 1960s learned yesterday that AMC, the cable network that carries the show, is demanding cast cuts -- of at least two characters.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/saving_some_mad_money_kgOquEafL3Vw7dPaZTLZ4O
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
that article is from a year ago, but the point stands.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
^^ March 30th 2011
iirc MW locked in his cast for the final 3 seasons when he reached his agreement with AMC
― http://i.imgur.com/TBVkw.gif (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
what point?
― mizzell, Monday, 2 April 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
the point on top of my head.
no, the point that amc wants weiner to get rid of two characters in exchange for his THIRTY MILLION DOLLAR salary.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
seem to recall that one of the things MW said after he signed his contract was that AMC were offering him more money at the expense of cast and minutes on air and he wasn't biting.
― http://i.imgur.com/TBVkw.gif (silby), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
oh. as you were.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Monday, 2 April 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
This needs to be here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZBmhEMFdl0
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/the-who-sell-out_front.jpg
― dmr, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
IIRC, Heinz wasn't exactly thrilled at that endorsement.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/romney-son-knocks-mad-mad-mocking-dead-grandfather-36724
"Seriously, lib media mocking my dead grandpa?" Tagg Romney wrote in response to Politco reporter Alex Burns partially quoted the offending line. "George Romney was as good a man I've ever known. Inspirational leader, worked for civil rights, promoted freedom. We need more like him."
On Sunday's episode, Betty's new husband, Henry Francis, turned down a request that his boss, New York Mayor John Lindsay, appear with Michigan Gov. George Romney.
"Well, tell Jim his honor’s not going to Michigan," Francis said. "Because Romney’s a clown and I don’t want him standing next to him."
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
"media"
― dmr, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
We've moved on but
Don & Peggy eating in the diner.
― RCMP, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
Nobody eats cos they are all alcoholics.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
obviously still upset that they couldn't get their first choice, "Heinz Is On My Side"
― dmr, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
Should've asked The Human Beinz.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
dude not even Heinz went there
― RCMP, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
what's with all the Harry-hate? Did he start sucking in season 4 (which I watched sporadically and may have even missed a couple of eps), or something? I always found him to be one of the more likable, decent dudes in the office, particularly compared the likes of Pete or that pretentious beardo who got left behind after the SCDP break
― it's smdh time in America (will), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
I've always hated him
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
bring back pretentious beardo imho
Paul was good for lolz, as the self-satisfied often are
Oh and I haven't seen any of S05 so maybe I should just stfu
― it's smdh time in America (will), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
yeah he is pretty easy to hate lately, but he used to be the nicest one. i will always love him for the carousel scene where he burst into tears.
― mizzell, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
fat betty
― ༼◍ྀ ౪ ◍ི ༽ (cozen), Monday, 2 April 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
I'm digging Ginsburg, don't think tooyoungwoodyallen is a bad thing in this context at all. I've been missing midcentury "ethnic" Brooklyn ever since Peggy's family starved to death from neglect.
― RCMP, Monday, 2 April 2012 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
i miss pretentious gay beardo
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Monday, 2 April 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
he doesn't remind me that much of woody allen specifically; he just seems like a random nebbishy jewish guy.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
Neither was Daltrey. The beans were cold, and he caught pneumonia from the photo session.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7032103603_21c0abfec1_b.jpg
Production photos: http://everyday-i-show.livejournal.com/151834.html
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7100/7032105203_898fc7eb23_b.jpg
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/7032107043_d8111a0803_b.jpg
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7266/7032104865_75ca963a46_b.jpg
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 01:02 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7092/6886007112_bf11981417_b.jpg
Ginsburg is Woody/Lenny/Dustin in spirit.
― )Dre( vs. (Eazy), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7032101627_a5254f86e4_b.jpg
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7134/7032104741_53432a9a90_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7222/7032107401_46527404c3_b.jpg
(more at that LJ link above)
― Reality Check Cashing Services (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
I can't unsee how the sausage is made.
― LaMonte, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 01:24 (eleven years ago) link
harry munchies! new copywriter ginsburg!! peggy-roger scenes!!! i hope there's way more of all three
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 02:04 (eleven years ago) link
also, ginsburg's dad benching him was way bizarre and strange
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 02:12 (eleven years ago) link
Harry Is a mediocre person but hilarious character. His fumbling is amazing, and I think he'll continue to be moderately useful but always just a bit off any mark.
I liked Don and Harry talking to the Stones fans, and Harry going with the more "savvy" one. The girl who was talking to Don is on the Fox show Lie to Me and I think she is pretty good!
Can you translate Ginsberg's dad for us, Mordy? I am perhaps misremembering it as yiddish, I was listening distractedly.
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 02:39 (eleven years ago) link
hebrew, he was giving him the traditional blessing you give your kids on friday night. there's a version for boys and for girls (when we bring shabbat in early for the baby, or it starts earlier, i say it to my daughter). the boys' version, which is what the show went with, translates as: "may god bless you as he blessed efraim and menashah. may the lord bless you and keep you. may the lord cause his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. may the lord turn his face to you and grant you peace." (part of it comes from Numbers, 6:24-26 and doubles as the Cohan blessing on high holidays, you know, when they do the Spock 'live long and propser' thing and everyone looks away)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
it was just super out of place. i don't know any jewish father who would spontaneously break out one of those in the middle of nowhere. either the writers are particularly tone-deaf about this, or maybe the dad is losing his mind or something?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
giving that blessing is called benching?
― mizzell, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
sorry, i'm really tired + accidental code-switched. it's just yiddish for blessing
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
by far the best shot from that set imo:http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7240/6886009966_1e70eab332_b.jpg
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
Harry is so amusing
― Teenage Mutant Ninja Body Image (latebloomer), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
wow, I'm glad I asked! Sounds like it kind of reads as "writers want to make sure you know this guy is totally Jewish." I assumed it was some sort of blessing, although attributed it more to celebration related to his job? kind of wacky when juxtaposed with the "let's go get some women" bit, for sure
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
I know how the sausage gets made and sausage-making at this level is still p amazing to me.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7041/7032107253_08146b5a49_b.jpg
^ lipstick/makeup tests, probably
also
huminahumina
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/6886010486_bf0e5f36b1_b.jpg
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 03:47 (eleven years ago) link
The rest of those pics were kinda zzz to me. But Hendricks is A+
Jimmy, I kiss u
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 03:59 (eleven years ago) link
the blessing scene was great because it came right after him suggesting a pair of older/younger whores, he is obviously a little something
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 05:58 (eleven years ago) link
I liked the phone convo between Betty and Don, where she made him tell her it would be okay
After railing against her last week I felt kinda bummed for her this week, lol hi I r a hypocrite ;)
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
god the interiors are getting kind of ghastly huh
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
January Jones in a fatsuit for the rest of the season would be so great.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
fatsuit? thought it was the aftereffects of eating your placenta
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
Its a bugle suit
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 06:18 (eleven years ago) link
even at her most sympthetic/vulnerable it was noticeable that when she gets the good news, betty's second thought is "now i don't have an excuse for being fat." lol shallow betty.
jewish copywriter has a lot of promise for the show, i think. did you notice he wore jeans to his interview?
remember that peggy's boyfriend and roger's wife are both jewish.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 09:30 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7132/7032102541_8dcce8ff13_b.jpg
whoa
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 09:31 (eleven years ago) link
I liked how as far as Betty is concerned, Megan is 20.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 09:41 (eleven years ago) link
Harry isn't terrible, just useless and overpromoted because he happened to luck out at the right time. But then this is an organisation where Roger still has a job, so...
Henry didn't tell Betty that Don had called to, y'know, find out whether she had cancer or not. That's going to kick off in time.
I didn't really expect the camera to follow Ginsberg home and I don't really get why it did. The character has potential but they've never really bothered to do that with Ken or Harry.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 09:46 (eleven years ago) link
presumably odd Ginsberg Sr is going to be a significant presence over time in a way Ken or Harry's families aren't
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 10:25 (eleven years ago) link
they're presumably setting him to be a major character the way they did peggy
where do i know that actor from?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 11:36 (eleven years ago) link
Betty sais Megan is 20, but later in the episode Megan says she's 26.
― )Dre( vs. (Eazy), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 12:27 (eleven years ago) link
(Says. I can't type.)
Very curious to see if Stan's prediction that Michael will outshine Peggy comes true.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 12:47 (eleven years ago) link
No kidding, Betty's perspective way skewed. Megan's 26, and Betty is what, still early 30s? I get where she's coming from in that she feels like Megan's a know-nothing youth, especially with the marriage/kids/social society bit, but it's almost like the two of them are separated by only a handful of years and a complete social generation.
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
I think Betty also feels older because she married an older politician and has a lot of responsibilities that Megan does not have -- contrast her ancient, forbidding house with the hip apartment Don and Megan are living in.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:00 (eleven years ago) link
Kind of sad about Don's lack of reinvention. The guy can relate to all kinds of people, but he's really no good at changing himself in any major way.
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:02 (eleven years ago) link
it's funny how everyone in this thread keeps going on about how useless harry is when he is actually kind of the only business visionary in the show, realized the potential of and built the whole TV department and probably kept both firms afloat? but he's bumbling and fattish so you have an excuse to feel superior to him
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:21 (eleven years ago) link
if there is anyone who is in tune with the common man, it is Harry
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:24 (eleven years ago) link
I'm guessing Bobby Morse has never sung on this thing.
also, they are doing George Romney ads?
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:24 (eleven years ago) link
No, Betty's politician husband fired off a one-liner about not wanting to meet with Romney in Michigan
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
thx, I heard there was something.
u guys shd watch the How to Succeed movie for the Morse metajoke
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTg1MDY0Njg3OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzk0ODE0NA@@._V1._SX640_SY505_.jpg
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:29 (eleven years ago) link
Don's not good at changing himself?!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
It is a TCM staple, I've seen it a couple of times -- it seems like they air it once a month. xp
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
this gif has me in a trance
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1uz8hjy8A1r1bvoxo1_r1_500.gif
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
This one is my favorite because of the angry slow clapping:
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1uwcdECZv1qa2khlo1_500.gif
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
the two people that pete fucked hardest
― 1 week to "Charles Dingus" (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
I'm still thinking about Henry totally blowing off Don's call. I don't even get why he would be mad that Betty told Don about the tumor.
Ugh @ soap opera people.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
full confession: Ginsburg is the first character I've felt any identification with on this show at all (well, apart from maybe Peggy's latest boyfriend) ... but yeah this was weird, was wondering if I was missing something. was he blessing him because he got the job or something? I was perplexed.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe he just brought home the right kind of cheese.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
I dug the Ginsburg character. He seems interesting.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
built the whole TV department and probably kept both firms afloat
re: the former afaict the "TV department" is just Harry and I seriously doubt the latter is true, not sure what you're basing that on
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
good movie/good metajoke imho
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
I don't even get why he would be mad that Betty told Don about the tumor.
Probably because Betty didn't tell him she had told Don? That would seem slightly shady to me.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
Betty and Don have three children together. I'm sure there are conversations they have that Henry doesn't know about and Henry should be smart enough to realize this happens.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
Henry doesn't strike me as particularly smart
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
BUT I think Henry has some weird inferiority complex re: Don and has to act out in some way.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
altho he IS divorced and has told Betty to get over it in terms of dealing with Don and raising their children so yeah I dunno
I really liked the Betty/Don drama in this. 'Tell me everything will be alright' was pretty awesome. Also i loved how Harry was too high to notice he was being scammed by the non-Rolling Stones.
I really don't understand the Harry hate. He seems more like a good-natured goof than anything.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't Harry basically go to Roger "maybe we should have a TV department" and Roger went "okay, you're the head of the TV department" because he didn't really care. And yeah the TV department is one person. It's pretty difficult to work out what he actually does other than occasionally meeting with TV execs and being a hapless buffoon. He's actually a lot less fat than he used to be and has becoming increasingly buffoonish with time. I don't hate him, but he is kind of comically inept.
Speaking of hapless buffoons, they're never going to bring Kinsey back are they?
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I think the guys who are gone are now gone for good.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
we'll see - they brought back Ken and Midge
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
They brought back Ken and Midge before all that offseason contract rodeo that happened.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
I loved Harry talking about Charlton Heston. I think that he comes off as intensely over-eager and also kinda smarmy which I think is why most people are turned off by him.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
I could see them bringing anyone back for a guest spot (a la Midge). I think it's not terribly likely than any of the former regulars, come back as regulars at this point cuz really what's left to say about Sal or Kinsey at this point.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I could see them being brought back to serve a particular plot point, but not as recurring characters
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
Don bumps into Sal on Fire Island in the show finale lol
Yeah, I think if any former regulars/featured(s) come back, it might be a drop-in from Duck or Freddy Rumsen.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
best line of the show, Roger re: Ginsberg - "we share the same dream of one day throwing something through this window."
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
Wait, they're both still alive right? For some reason, I'm thinking one or both of them is/are dead. xp
Both last seem alive.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
they were both in season 4 (and mentioned already in season 5)and still alive
― mizzell, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
Ginsburg is the first character I've felt any identification with on this show at all (well, apart from maybe Peggy's latest boyfriend)
this x100 and i hope they don't blow it with a 'jews are weird' fixation. i'd think matthew weiner would know better tbh.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
roger had a p good 'always darkest before the dawn' half-drunken slur line also
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
Harry is good-natured but has a lot of weak good ol' boy-isms that he keeps trying on. It's like he is trying to look young, but already has this mentality built up so that all his jokes and references just seem dated. Kind of hilarious when he's telling a story that obviously seems pretty cool to him about Heston, and he's high and stumbling over it in a near-giddy manner, completely oblivious to the fact that he's speaking to someone who has no clue what he's talking about.
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
so if jane and her cousin are jewish, they just kind of overlooked the fact that they hired a jew in the past?
― mizzell, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
Never picked up on Jane and Danny being Jewish I think?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
even roger?
― mizzell, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
I mean I didn't.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
But man Season 3 was forever ago now.
I thought it was kind of hilarious that Harry telling stories stoned is kinda the same as Harry telling stories straight: completely oblivious that the person receiving the story has no interest in whatever he's talking about <3
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
i never thought it was clear about Danny and Jane, but thought some people on here felt pretty certain.
― mizzell, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, Jane is def Jewish (her maiden name is Siegel), but I think Jewish secretaries don't count in terms of the firm seeming "modern."
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
siegel can just be a german name though. but if they are jewish then they already had a jewish copywriter at the same level as ginsburg.
― mizzell, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but not JEWISH jewish
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, I forgot all about Danny.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
so did don and peggy when they needed to hire a copywriter
― mizzell, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
"but if they are jewish then they already had a jewish copywriter at the same level as ginsburg."
No way. Ginsburg has an ACCOUNT that he's working on, the other dude was basically a flunky. And I don't think the issue was that they had a jewish copywriter anyway, just that Mohawk would primary copywriter would be jewish.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
OK, here we go. From the horse's mouth:
To me, I’m telling a story about segregation and assimilation, and who’s coming along at what time. I hope people can tell Faye Miller is Jewish. I hope people know at some level that Jane Siegel, Roger’s wife, is Jewish. They are assimilated. Not everyone can be an heiress like Rachel Menken, who feels absolutely bulletproof. Bobbie Barrett and Jimmy Barrett certainly were transparently Jewish.
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/matthew-weiner-closes-the-books-on-season-4-of-mad-men/
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
Caught Faye, missed Jane. Hm. Invisible or coded Jews a big deal in the history of Hollywood of course.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
What were the "diet pills" that Betty was seeking anyway? Amphetamines?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
from Wiki Amphetamines (marketed as Benzedrine) became popular for weight loss during the late 1930s. They worked primarily by suppressing appetite, and had other beneficial effects such as increased alertness. Use of amphetamines increased over the subsequent decades, culminating in the "rainbow pill" regime. This was a combination of multiple pills, all thought to help with weight loss, taken throughout the day. Typical regimens included stimulants, such as amphetamines, as well as thyroid hormone, diuretics, digitalis, laxatives, and often a barbiturate to suppress the side effects of the stimulants. In 1967/1968 a number of deaths attributed to diet pills triggered a Senate investigation and the gradual implementation of greater restrictions on the market. This culminating in 1979 with the FDA banning the use of amphetamines, then the most effective of the diet drugs, in diet pills.[11]
I love the 60's
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGYSHy1jQs
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
I have to say after being up to my ears in Stones catalog for the past 2 weeks with ILM's Stones Poll, I have been kinda loving the synergy of Mad Men having a Rolling Stones side-story
even the stupid 'time is on my side' dinner table convo made me grin like a dork. And the groupie who said she was Brian's 'Lady Jane'. <3
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
She had good taste! Or maybe I'm just saying that because Brian died when he was still hot and never got a chance to make "She's the Boss".
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
we must part ways, then, lol. Brian was a vaccuum of hottness in my eyes
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
can someone clarify to me the situation whereby pete would get away with being so blatantly rude to a senior partner (roger)? it doesn't really ring true to me that behaviour like that would fly, even if roger is largely incompetent. but, as i said, maybe i missed or forgot something.
― jed_, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
I think Pete only joined SCDP when they spun off with the understanding that he was a lesser partner of some sort? They then continued treating him like he was less than the other partners, and this is him asserting himself since they agreed he'd come on board with that status due to the clients he brought.
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link
pete really is the biggest rainmaker at that jobmoney talks bullshit walks iirc
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link
i was wondering that too.xposts
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link
(xpost) The whole agency knows that Pete's bringing in more business than Roger, so it's not in Roger's interest to force a power play against Pete that would make the rest of the partners choose sides.
― I DIED, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
I read it as Pete had agreed to hand the account over just to be nice, throw Roger bone after he's not done much of anything for years, so then the about-turn is publicly completely legit but yet embarrassing to Roger in a way he can't really act on.
― Boo-Yaa Too Rough International Boo-Yaa Empire (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
ya its a power play
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw Duck (the actor) is now on AMC's THE KILLING. Which I don't recommend you watch. It's terrible but I want to know who dun it. For some reason.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
He can go duck himself.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy got Ducked...
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1u4tqcHu51r1wdpvo1_500.gif
― H3LP, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
the shot of her getting out of the bathtub really felt like they were being all, 'see? she's ACTUALLY fat'
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
It was so clearly shot with a double, though.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
That part was so obvious and fake that I wonder why they bothered with it.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:16 (eleven years ago) link
it was really weird because it wasn't like they were showing her hubby her body, it was clearly meant for us the viewers
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
Hamm director.
― )Dre( vs. (Eazy), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
Hamm showing Betty "pig out"
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
Although, who am I to complain about sideboob?
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1u4tqcHu51r1wdpvo1_500.gifI Regret Eating My Placenta [Started by if you feeling frogbs, leap (The Reverend) in March 2012, last updated 8 seconds ago by wolf kabob (ENBB) on I Love Everything] 388 new answers
― I DIED, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I didn't like this. seemed gratuitous.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
btw we're trying to imply Betty is FAT don't you see
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
Waiting for her to have a baby in episode 13 now.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
writers seem to enjoy placing Betty opposite wiser, more confident, and more thoroughly emotionally restrained women (Sally's psychologist, Henry's mother). They address hard truths matter-of-factly in soft voices and she does her ice-queen-in-the-headlights routine.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
I don't necessarily think that Henry's mother is being presented as wiser.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
Certainly fatter.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
"Your mother is obese."
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
I don't necessarily think that Henry's mother is being presented as wiser
yeah dunno if that's the right word. more mature? more in control?
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
interfering
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
more manipulative
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
more worldly and clued in to the way of this man's world methinkssame thing joan's mother was doing; this is all setting us up for generation gap freak out as we hit the summer of '69 methinks
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
Joan's mother was a PIA!
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
jealous and manipulative in both cases with these old mothers
Definitely some crazy generational strife with the old guard acting like their daughters were being rebellious when they're just living with a new set of rules
― mh, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
I think Henry's mother borders on a mother in law joke - she's controlling and cold, and Betty is never going to be good enough for her.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
She really does.
Have we had any nice/good Moms in this thing?
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
Carla lol
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
who was Carla? I'm so bad with names in this show
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
Roger's first wife seemed okay iirc.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
Drapers' maid
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
agree about Roger's first wife, that's a good one
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/1027/3098sam_carla2.jpg
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
haha
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
Granted Trudy's a brand new mom, but she has potential.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
yeah Carla was an A+ mom :)
I feel good about Trudy as a Mommy
carla had all those kids with nick tortelli iirc
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
i picture canks as like being in prison coveralls in some sort of '30s-era juvie institution in that post
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
talking in yr sleep again dude
― balls, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
wrong thread hahaha
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
just working through some shit here guys
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
hee hee
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
omg @ betty draper dream
― moullet, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
that was very sopranos
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:45 (eleven years ago) link
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
but not as good
― Number None, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
it wasn't even as good as Betty's first dream sequence, but it was kinda a lackluster episode over all
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
the whole thing's been pretty lacklustre thus far.
― jed_, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
it's been two fucking episodes. sheesh.
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 01:44 (eleven years ago) link
feels like more
is betty's cancer going to mean that she is the nude mannequin in the promo artwork?
― fka snush (remy bean), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 01:51 (eleven years ago) link
yes
― balls, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 01:53 (eleven years ago) link
Was really surprised they picked thyroid cancer for the cancer scare. I guess it was maybe common at the time given the A-bomb blast parties and events in Vegas a decade earlier?
Acne treatments in the 60's ended up causing thyroid cancer later down the road.
― *tera, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:07 (eleven years ago) link
Hamm may not have directed Betty scenes tho
not all of Carla's kids were with N. Tortelli iirc (though she did fear him during separations because he could make her pregnant with a look also iirc)
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:14 (eleven years ago) link
Footnotes of Mad Men is back in action again: http://madmenunbuttoned.com/
And sloppy X-ray-ing. Thyroid cancer is common and relatively easy to treat.
As someone who has experienced both over and under active thyroid, I knew that's what the doctor was going to say when she asked for the pills and he went for her throat. Thyroid controls metabolism, so if it's not working due to being under active or the cancer, your metabolism slows down and you gain weight. "get the kind that makes you fat" -Betty.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:16 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry about the link. Zing touch acting up.
― mh, Tuesday, April 3, 2012 10:52 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
who in the hell wouldn't know who charlton heston was in 1966? that's like, i dunno, not knowing who tom hanks is now.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:34 (eleven years ago) link
more like not knowing who kevin costner is now really
― balls, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:37 (eleven years ago) link
15 year olds? Few tv channels, no home video, if you didn't see a variety of movies, you'd possibly miss out. Or it's supposed to be a "kids knew no one over 30" thing.
― mh, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I took it as the latter, he was in plenty of notable stuff in the 60s, but probably nothing that Young People would care about until Planet of the Apes.
― Boo-Yaa Too Rough International Boo-Yaa Empire (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:41 (eleven years ago) link
― balls, Tuesday, April 3, 2012 9:37 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no, costner hasn't been in a hit movie in... 10 or 15 years? heston was in e.g. el cid in 1961. he was also a prominent hollywood activist (for civil rights etc.).
i mean i can see her not really giving a shit or not having seen one of his movies (even the ten commandments?) but not having heard of guy is a little farfetched.
but whatever.
you know what' freaking far-fetched? the idea that folks at a major ad agency would not have thought to open a TV department in 1961-62. that's the one mad men plot point that strikes me as the most egregiously anachronistic.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
didn't they put hamburgers in front of the tv dept way back when?
also, yeah, her not knowing who charlton heston is kinda suprised me. heston was an a-list star at that point. be like some kid today not knowing who george clooney is, really. which isn't all that farfetched, i suppose...
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 04:13 (eleven years ago) link
People are dumb:http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/who-is-paul-mccartney
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 04:16 (eleven years ago) link
least credible thing to me abt this episode: SCDP figured the best way to enlist the rolling stones in an ad campaign would be to go to a show and try to sign the band in person. points for moxie and all, but i'm sure the stones had reps to handle such stuff, even in 1966.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the equivalent in 1966 honestly would be the girl not knowing who i dunno al jolson is.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 05:15 (eleven years ago) link
liked the allen klein namedrop, but was sort of hoping harry would meet up with andrew loog oldham. or was oldham out of the picture by 1966?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 05:17 (eleven years ago) link
Oldham sold his share of the Rolling Stones' management to Allen Klein in 1966, but continued in his role as the band's de facto manager and producer until late 1967.
I doubt Klein would have allowed people to go through anyone else but him to get to the Stones while they were in the US, and particularly while on Klein's home turf of NYC.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 05:27 (eleven years ago) link
no ways! jolson was long dead in '66, dead probably the year that girl was born, and he would have been 80 freaking years if he'd lived. he hadn't been a major cultural presence a quarter century. heston, otoh, was in his early 40s and had recently starred in several big, flagship productions, one of hollywood's biggest stars at the peak of his "mature" career. not the kind of guy most teens would be flocking to see, but still...
it makes sense to me that a lot of young people nowadays wouldn't know from paul mccartney. at this point, paul's glory days are some 30-60 years distant. that's comparable to kids in the mid 60s drawing a blank on jolson. to find a modern equivalent for kids back then blanking on heston, you'd have to find someone who first showed up about 25 years back and is still getting lead roles in blockbuster oscar bait. like say brad pitt, johnny depp or george clooney.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 05:33 (eleven years ago) link
edit: "no ways! jolson was long dead in '66, dead probably the year that girl was born, and he would have been 80 freaking years old if he'd lived. he hadn't been a major cultural presence in a quarter century."
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 05:35 (eleven years ago) link
the show isn't saying ALL teenagers didn't know who he was
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
I'm getting a bit tired of this show now. Also I can't stand Betty.
― We Need To Talk About Trayvon (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 06:35 (eleven years ago) link
Megan is really working my nerves ... soooo whiny!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 06:51 (eleven years ago) link
Oh I like Megan
― We Need To Talk About Trayvon (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 07:00 (eleven years ago) link
haha i like Betty.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 07:00 (eleven years ago) link
AA Gill in The Sunday Times wrote that Mad Men is becoming vacuous and is a victim of its own success....but never really went into reasons WHY.
― Michael B Higgins (Michael B), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 10:15 (eleven years ago) link
Because editor asked him to.
― Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 10:23 (eleven years ago) link
I read that Gill piece (dunno why i do it to myself) and it seemed like his usual trolling. Also, he called Christina Hendricks "the top-heavy redhead"
― Number None, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 10:41 (eleven years ago) link
Was Gill a good critic at one point or am I just imagining it?
― Michael B Higgins (Michael B), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 10:42 (eleven years ago) link
not in my memory anyway
― Number None, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 10:53 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not loving Megan. Well, I love her choppers but not much else.
I liked that weird awkwardness at the Heinz dinner. It seemed very underlined that this conversation would have gone a whole lot more smoothly with someone like Betty. Not that I am any great Betty fan but she can at least handle business small-talk. Whereas I dont' think Megan really gets the bigger picture ie dinner goes well = business goes well.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
wtf, Megan totally got to agree and play the "non-business-savvy wife" role when the Heinz dude's wife was asking her "oh, this is all so boring, right?"
― mh, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
I thought she was just super awkward through the whole thing, especially dropping the whole 'oh he's divorced' turd on the table.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I don't know if it's intentional or not but her character does kind of have a desperate undercurrent, like she constantly needs to prove herself in any situation. As a hip 60s youth, as a sexy Frenchy, as biz wife. Maybe not 'trying to hard' but somewhere around there...
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
is Megan the T-Mobile commercial spokesmodel?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
how big are the spokesmodel's teeth? that's the giveaway.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
i take her as some combo of really eager & curious, but naive -- like that moment of the wife asking how boring this convo is -- she figured out that of course, be agreeable & submissive to the menfolk talking business but shes really genuinely interested in advertising for whatever reason
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy: yes
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
she seems more genuine and honest than most people on the show. she's not used to playing a role which everyone else does.
― mizzell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
Carly Foulkes is the T-Mobile spokesgirl.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
yeah. I worry that her arc is going to be "Don and everyone destroy all her optimism".
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
!!! xpost
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
i had no idea.
Well, y'know...thin brunette Canadian women all look alike.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
not a bad thing imo
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
I thought she was played by Geddy Lee.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
No, Megan is the actress from s1ocki's short film and a number of lesser features.
Like Hot Tub Time Machine
― mh, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
i always thought conspiratorially that the t-mobile girl was debuted parasitically with megan's emergence
i had the same feeling about another spokesperson & tv it-person but i can't remember who now
― goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
it makes sense to me that a lot of young people nowadays wouldn't know from paul mccartney. at this point, paul's glory days are some 30-60 years distant. that's comparable to kids in the mid 60s drawing a blank on jolson
you misunderstood my post! that's exactly what i was saying!!!!!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
xp to Morbz a bunch of posts upthread: Most of this season I've spent thinking whether Pete is more of a Bud Frump or a J Pierpont Finch. I think he alternates between the two. Also, I wonder if he lives in New Rochelle.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
in re megan i don't think the various parts we've been shown of her (NO NOT IN THAT SENSE GET YOUR MINDS OUT OF THE GUTTER) don't really add up to a very coherent whole. the fact that we very nearly ONLY see her in don's company is probably the culprit here; we have little sense of who she was before or what she is when she's with friends and not with don. so basically her construct seems like a creaky construct right now. that doesn't reflect on the actress as much as the writers.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
which train line was pete taking?
i assume henry and betty live in greenwich or something.
s1ocki's movie vs. hot tube tim machine
― We Need To Talk About Trayvon (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
damn, that's a lot of exclamation points
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, she's basically set up as 1960s manic pixie dream girl - which is prob why she annoys me.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
We've seen Megan with Peggy without Don, right?
― Brando Ambassador (Eazy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
bday party planning scene
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
also working on Heinz
making extra coupons when it wasn't called for etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnXGW8QxTfkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oVdLIvcNREhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-95qfa956Ahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InILSU-ZV9M
― We Need To Talk About Trayvon (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
pls stop
― We Need To Talk About Trayvon (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
Dominic West!!!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
her CHARACTER seems like a creaky construct
once again, i cannot type
you misunderstood my post! that's exactly what i was saying!!!!!damn, that's a lot of exclamation points― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 12:53 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 12:53 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well, it was frustrating reading a whole post ripping apart my suggestion when in fact it was making the same point i had intended to make. ;-)
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
xxxx...post
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:57 (eleven years ago) link
i assumed henry and betty's house was in rye, ny as it was mentioned last season. re: pete, trudy had mentioned loving greenwich last season, but when he got on the train, greenwich was called as the next stop, iirc.
― mizzell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
eagle eye!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
eye ear
pete moving to the suburbs is one of the saddest things to happen on this show. i loved his old new yorker-ness
― mizzell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
the New Rochelle thing is a line from a "How to Succeed" song - how Bobby Morse's love interest dreams of moving to the burbs
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
― sarahell, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:53 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Bingo!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
Like, why are you advertising executives so cynical?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
anyway, the part where Betty calls Don about her cancer made me cry - because i could totally relate to the calling-your-ex-when-in-trouble thing.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I thought it was a really honest moment between them
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
Darewood and Mr Kravitz!
― *tera, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
I finally got it -- the thing about the Megan/Don relationship is that she's in the part of her life where she's expecting a partner to adapt and grow with her. It may also be a little bit of a generational thing, since 26 was halfway to old maid territory a scant decade earlier. Don is fairly set in his personal ways -- all the apartment trappings and social bits he can deal with, but he doesn't like anyone else making decisions in his personal life.
― mh, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah Megan was totally faking agreeing that the conversation was boring - she works at an ad agency, it's been her ambition, she was interested but going along with the other dude's wife.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
This week's mad style is so great because it really gets into how the costume designer uses clothes to tell the story.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, she's expecting a full and enthusiastic partnership, someone to experience life with, and he's this armor-hulled immovable object who just wants the people around him to keep their shit together.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
...and their noses out of his business.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
xxp, yeah, good run-down in mad style. hated betty's pink nylon housecoat, ridiculously ott, but good catch on the parallels between peggy and michael.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
I would have never noticed how his ties matched her outfits.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, me neither, nor did i notice how similarly his apt was lit to the early scenes of peggy's family (probably should have, but derp)
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:02 (eleven years ago) link
I think Megan may bend Don some. The scene where she was rushing him to fire island..I expected him to flip but he seemed to acknowledge she was right.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
well don bent Megan in front of the fireplace so..
/sorry
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
you keep talking about that, i seems
― og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 23:00 (eleven years ago) link
thx for the tip nicole!
― balls, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 23:04 (eleven years ago) link
really wanted a fire island scene
not on board with this "pete is a likable character now" thing
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
who said he's likeable? he's such a snake!
― fka snush (remy bean), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:39 (eleven years ago) link
Pete the character is AWFUL in all ways, but the actor is really good at making him so desperately horrible, it's fantastic
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
and you can tell he could be a really good dude if he just unwound the crazy spring in his head
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
thought someone did upthread? i USED to like him. and i still probably like him better than harry who seems almost irredeemably schlubby
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
Harry is a funny dork, I feel a lot of sympathy for him – he's clearly talanted, but so graceless and socially inept that he just ends up tanking his own career.
― fka snush (remy bean), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
in what way is Harry "talented"
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
we never see him do anything or come up with any ideas
The best idea Harry ever had was to con his bosses into creating a television department. Hasn't done anything since.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
Harry is def. a bit good at the creative stuff, I think? Hasn't it been intimated that he's okay at that, but kinda crap at business?
― fka snush (remy bean), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
I think you are making that up
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
he runs the tv dept, also invented it, what more do you want from him
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
you all just hate him because he's an overweight schlub, admit it
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
he's not overweight anymore, he's practically svelte
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
you hate him for his effortless weight loss
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:26 (eleven years ago) link
I hate him because he invented the television
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, without Harry there would be no Mad Men for us to watch.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
Mad Men as Doonesbury hmm
― fka snush (remy bean), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
I love Pete not because he is likable but because his character is just so delicious to watch, complex.
― *tera, Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
Pete is like a multi-layered artisanal sandwich. Harry is like a pile of mashed potatoes.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
I always anticipate seeing what kind of weasely thing the character is going to come up with next.
― mh, Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
I have always hated Harry and I am really pleased people are now seeing his awful ways. He has done almost zero anything innovative at SDCP. I mean, he's the dude that somehow hangs on and people sorta respect (to a degree) and you wonder what the fuck it is they do. I work at an advertising agency and there are like 15 of these people who have their own offices and vague titles and kinda just dink around and stare at the walls.
Not sure why s1ocki likes him so much!!!!
― homosexual II, Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
Roger is also becoming one of these people.
totally hope Harry gets herpes. or takes acid and throws himself out a window.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
s1ocki and harry sitting in a tree, watching T E E V E E
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
Harry Gets Herpes: new Mad Men spinoff coming this fall!
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
i like harry. he's a confused dork, but seems basically harmless underneath all the boobery. not a good man, not a bad man, just sort of there. holding down the middle.
pete i loathe, but agree that kartheiser does a good job enriching his loathability.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
idg why yall hate on harry hes not a rapist like pete yeesh. in the mad men universe, hes a minor lecher
― D-40, Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
harry is probably the most typical dude on the show
― mh, Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
i dont really care for him one way or another but the way yall pile on him like he's so UNTALENTED and HORRIBLE, u have to admit, is 100% about the way he looks
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:39 (eleven years ago) link
what did he do? HE STARTED THE TV DEPARTMENT. that's probably a pretty big part of an ad agency's business.
no it doesn't have anything to do with the way he looks and everything to do with his actions
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
note my stanning for other overweight schlub Paul the Beatnik upthread
that's probably a pretty big part of an ad agency's business.
again you're basing this on... nothing. all the talk about who brings in the most business for the company points pretty squarely to Pete (esp post-Lucky Strike)
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
im basing this on logic and reality, why do you think they brought the schlub over from the old agency and not your beloved beatnik
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
why do you think Pete was made a partner, whereas Harry was just told to "come to work over the weekend"
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
the idea that Harry's crucial or creative or has any redeeming qualities is just not supported by the show. sorry.
he was just forced out of his office fyi
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:58 (eleven years ago) link
forced?? Really??
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much. it's all about keeping pete happy, since he has ALL the accounts.
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
pete's job is to bring in new clients and to manage existing ones. that kind of thing will always seem sexy and pete's obviously pretty good at it (for reasons that aren't ever made clear: clients don't seem to like him, and he's never shown any great insight, intelligence or understanding of the business).
harry probably does some marketing to broadcasters (?), but we've never seen much of his day-to-day work. we presume he makes TV ads? honestly, i don't think we can say much about the kind of work harry does, what kind of revenue it brings in, or whether he's any good at it. the show simply doesn't care about him. he's a cartoonish shlub designed to set off the more attractive and important characters.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:11 (eleven years ago) link
as i see it, pete is a classic striver: extremely ambitious, tirelessly dedicated to his work, sharp & bold enough to get what he wants.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
we saw that joan could do his job 10x better than him w/o breaking a sweat but that applies to alot of characters
― balls, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
his job = harry; pete's probably the most insightful person (maybe peg) at scdp, though this maybe purely an aspect of his relative youth (though considering harry's about the same age maybe not). sterling cooper's always been depicted as at least a step behind - the first season had draper being skeptical of ddb.
― balls, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
he's never shown any great insight, intelligence or understanding of the business
what about when he exploited his personal loss to attempt to get the airline...? or screwing over his father-in-law to get bigger accounts? Or telling Ted Chaugh to go fuck himself? Or milking the jai-alai moron? Pete is plenty insightful/intelligent.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:24 (eleven years ago) link
Harry can be a schmuck, but there's a haplessness about him that I find sympathetic.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
did you even watch the premiere episode?! Roger said "move out and give your office to Pete" and Harry was like "uh okay please don't fire me"
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
i see him as sharp and wily: clever enough to recognize the openings and weaknesses around him, unscrupulous enough to exploit them. this doesn't make him brilliant, but it does make him a very successful jr. shark.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
he's basically the template of the corporate asshole. arrogant, entitled, pushy as hell, sharp enough to get what he wants, largely untroubled by compassion or decency.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
also first season (first episode?) makes clear that what sterling cooper sells really is airtime/print space/etc. the actual ads are the flourish to their middle manning. harry, i believe, basically acts as a liaison between clients and the networks and protects clients interests by making sure their ads aren't awkwardly placed or that they aren't caught off guard by controversial programming. unless he's writing peyton place fanfic on the side there is no creative aspect to his job. the big floorshine ad that don won an award for was a tv ad. if harry was great at his job he might be spotting opportunities for synergy or conceiving product placement (i think tv is finally past the point of 'chesterfield cigarettes proudly presents the flintstones' or whatever by this time right?). instead he relays concerns from clients to networks, he covers his ass, he gets a hard-on when he meets elizabeth mcgovern, etc.
― balls, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:32 (eleven years ago) link
for reasons that aren't ever made clear: clients don't seem to like him, and he's never shown any great insight, intelligence or understanding of the business).
this is otm and a major hurdle in the verisimilitude of the show, imo. no client would ever like this guy = i don't believe it.
― jed_, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:32 (eleven years ago) link
agree that his business is largely the business of being an asshole. he is good at it.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:32 (eleven years ago) link
what clients didn't like Pete? Jojo loved him.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:33 (eleven years ago) link
i don't remember Jojo.
― jed_, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
jai-alai
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
yeah don vaguely tried to scuttle that out of some vague sense of human decency right? which is why don isn't in sales.
― balls, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:37 (eleven years ago) link
let's also not forget, Harry is the one who got Sal fired.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
just because they write that a character would love pete doesn't mean i would believe it.
― jed_, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
saying you don't believe it is different than saying the show doesn't depict it. I don't think Pete is really shown as not working well with clients.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
No, Pete's mostly elbowing coworkers to make sure they make a good impression on his clients, at least that was always my impression. They don't love him like they love Don, but I think Pete knows that and kind of leverages himself against his more impressive/formidable coworkers to keep his clients, if that makes sense.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
fair enough. i've never really seen it and believed it.
― jed_, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, exactly. pete's an awkward, creepy charisma vacuum, and that makes his success in sales extremely difficult to understand/accept. dunno whether this is a fault in the show's conception/writing, kartheiser's performance or both.
example of pete's not doing well with clients: his meeting with the mohawk gang. they clearly preferred sterling, and not just due to familiarity and age. pete himself asknowledged that roger is "good with clients", implying that he knows he isn't. he has absolutely no clue about how to put others at ease. he's completely awkward and off-putting in every social situation, especially when he's trying to be gracious.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
pete's the ultimate "guy no one likes but who succeeds anyway". problem is that though those guys do exist, they aren't generally in sales.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
or if they are, they're a lot more superficially charming than pete
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:53 (eleven years ago) link
like dwight schrute?
― balls, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
dwight wouldn't make a good salesperson, either. but the office is an absurd comedy, so the implausibility doesn't matter.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
have you ever met a person in sales that actually made you want to buy something?
― eyes of dora maar (get bent), Friday, 6 April 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
no, but i've spent a lot of time working with salespeople, and i have a pretty good idea what kind of people do well in that biz. #1 skill is being able to schmooze happily w people who have money to spend, whoever they might be.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
you're thinking of strippers
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
lol, strippers are salespeople, and salespeople love strippers, so...
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
Pete's articulate and in awe of the creative side of his agency; he's direct, works hard and has all the proper WASP manners and goes to the right country clubs.
Roger's an entertaining drunk who inherited his one big client, then lost him. He's flippant and spoiled and comes across as largely uninterested in business.
I don't know anything about advertising IRL but I think these respective traits and their relation to building or losing business are more or less consistent in the show's world.
― RCMP, Friday, 6 April 2012 00:14 (eleven years ago) link
It's hard to imagine a client humiliating Pete the way Lucky Strike Jr. did Roger at the Christmas party. Roger's lack of formality or distance seems more of a liability than an asset.
That Ken is more like Pete than Roger seems appropriate as well.
― RCMP, Friday, 6 April 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
Roger said "move out and give your office to Pete" and Harry was like "uh okay please don't fire me"
no Harry was like "bullshit man, I am TV" and Roger was like "ah fuckit how much spare cash do I have in my pocket? oh $1000 how about that" and Harry was too dazzled to either stand his ground or intuit the status endrun that Roger was pulling
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Friday, 6 April 2012 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
Pete has def. been shown to have insight and business sense at times, there was a whole episode based around his wanting to advertise to black people when no one else in the company could imagine that that would be a lucrative market
― dmr, Friday, 6 April 2012 01:27 (eleven years ago) link
― RCMP, Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm. you guys are crazy. pete doesnt bro down with clients but there's also just you know ... being professional ... knowing what the client wants to hear ... making sure they get what they want ... there are lots of ways to be good at that job that dont necessarily involve making bad jokes & boozing w/ them a la roger
― D-40, Friday, 6 April 2012 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
no Harry was like "bullshit man, I am TV" and Roger was like "ah fuckit how much spare cash do I have in my pocket? oh $1000 how about that"
this is not what happened. Harry thought he was getting fired.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 02:14 (eleven years ago) link
"we can have the conversation you thought we were having"
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 02:15 (eleven years ago) link
exactly. as soon as Roger realized Harry was confessing to a fireable offense Roger told him he could either take his pocket cash (which is a totally insulting way to buy off somebody!) and lose his office, or Roger could get him fired.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
iow, Harry is worth roughly $1,100 to SCDP
Roger was never going to fire him for that, they would have bro-d down about it if Harry was capable of broing down, he was just telling him to stop looking a gift horse in the mouth
nb Megan looks like a gift horse, in the mouth
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Friday, 6 April 2012 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, okay, granted. i went to far in saying that he's never shown insight etc. modify to: the show has only rarely taken the time to point out pete's real value (goes double for harry). for the most part, they just have pete magically attract clients, something that doesn't seem well supported by his basic character.
roger's big value is that he is culturally "of business". he's at ease around wealth & executive power. he speaks its language. it's clear that his glory days are past him, though, and at this point he's deluding himself into thinking that his ability to entertain drunk clients makes him indispensable.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 02:38 (eleven years ago) link
that all went back to dmr on pete's advertising savvy
there are two type of account people, really. there's the ones that schmooze and play nicey-nicey with clients. they can get a lot of places going that route. then there's the account people who try to anticipate the client's needs and be smarter than the client. it's a bit rougher, because sometimes it means your clients might not actually like you.
however, the first type of guy is more easily fired--because guys who are fun and want to schmooze are a dime a dozen. the account people who bring about results are the ones who grow business.
― homosexual II, Friday, 6 April 2012 03:40 (eleven years ago) link
it was a big revelation when advertising companies realized there's more money in buying media than there is in selling ads. Harry's job is pretty important, but he's replaceable.
The client's don't have to love Pete, but he pays attention to them and tells them what they want to hear and calls them back, so he's good at that job.
― dan selzer, Friday, 6 April 2012 03:53 (eleven years ago) link
otoh, pete's a rapist & harry's just a lech
so,
― D-40, Friday, 6 April 2012 05:24 (eleven years ago) link
Pete (and to an extent, Roger) is in the weird position of being a salesperson in a marketing company selling marketing to the sales departments (or company heads) of other companies.
I think Pete is OK at sales, but he's never shown that he's got a skill for the creative side of the business.
Harry is in the position where he's straddling the two -- he's not selling SCDP's products, he just came up with better ways to use media (television!) but he's still not the creator of marketing materials on tv -- he delegates most of the actual legwork. So he's weak to clients because he's not in sales, and he's weak in the office because he's not a producer of material -- he's just finding tv opportunities for existing clients to be sold commercials.
― mh, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
So in other words, Harry is doomed to middle management
oh god Harry is perfect middle-management material
no discernible skills; olympic-level blame-shifter; at an early point in his career was creative enough to do something that justified him getting an office and will rest on that laurel for the rest of his natural born life.
he doesn't want to move up, he just wants to be left alone. he's made it to the middle and that's where he'll stay.
I work with so many of these it's ridiculous.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
he doesn't want to move up, he just wants to be left alone.
lol that's me!
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
actually I think I just described myself too, lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
i think you described every half-decent person who works in an office
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
we are Harry
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
I aspire to the ability to talk with coworkers, break down my responsibilities into clearly-defined tasks, and then complete a reasonable number of these tasks each day, or at least each week.
I'll let you know if this ever happens.
― mh, Friday, 6 April 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
not only does the harry office thing have nothing to do with his status (like someone said, he had to be PAID off, with a bit of humourous fake blackmail), dont they have to like beg him to join the new firm when they leave the old one?
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 6 April 2012 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
do you even watch this show?
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 6 April 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
Nah, they just had to keep reassuring him it would all be okay b/c he's such a narrow-visioned whiner. And because he didn't want to be left locked in a closet in the old office.
― Jaq, Friday, 6 April 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
not only does the harry office thing have nothing to do with his status
Roger picked him because a) Roger didn't want to give up his own office and b) he knew no one else would defend Harry, because he's useless and nobody likes him
(like someone said, he had to be PAID off, with a bit of humourous fake blackmail)
he did not have to be paid off, Roger made it clear Harry could either a) accept Roger's pocket change in lieu of his office or b) suffer the wrath of Don and get fired.
dont they have to like beg him to join the new firm when they leave the old one?
they didn't even tell him they were starting a new company! he was told to show up on Saturday, not knowing what was going on. The other partners had to make promises to Pete and Peggy to get them on board, with Harry they didn't even bother, they just bossed him around.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
I'm starting to think s1ocki drifts off to sleep when this show starts and then dreams about being Harry and how much everyone respects him and how big and important he is
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
^ irl lol, sorry s1ocki
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 21:59 (eleven years ago) link
The next morning, we see Pete in the elevator. Off-screen, Harry calls for him to hold it. Once inside, he asks Pete if they called him in too. Pete says that they did. Pete then admits to Harry that he’s “a little scared”. Harry, oblivious to what Pete’s talking about, asks him to clarify. Pete, realizing that Harry doesn’t know, says nothing. A couple minutes pass, and the two walk through the doors of Sterling Cooper to see Bert, Roger and Lane huddled over a table. Harry, confused, asks what’s going on. Bert says that PPL has been sold to McCann, that they’re starting a new agency, and that they’d like him to join the new company as “Head of Media”. Harry looks stunned, and asks if they’re kidding. “Yes. Yes we are”, Roger quips. Bert then says that they need an answer from Harry now. Harry says that he should really call his wife. Bert says that the matter is secret and time-sensitive, and that if he turns down their offer to “become a mid-level cog at McCann” that they’ll have to lock him in the store room until morning. Harry seems frozen with indecision. To break the silence, Lane hands Pete a folder and ask if he knows where the related paperwork is. Pete says that he has no idea, so he hands the folder to Harry.
^^^power broker in action
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw harry provides me a great deal of enjoyment ("i thought you were ordering for yr whole family") and he's still almost definitely the most decent american man at the firm (o wait - cosgrove). it's just crazy considering how much i liked harry in season one and how much i hated pete and how much i've completely reversed my feelings there even though pete isn't that much better a person now and harry isn't really that much worse.
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
not defending harry as a savvy power player, but iirc, roger only worked out that pete had been trying to confess to a fireable offense after he'd made the cash offer. once he twigged to this, he was able to leverage harry with it, but he'd started out hoping to just straight-up pay harry off.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
god so tempted to watch that season 3 finale again, giddy just reading about it
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
right. of course, if Roger had known Harry had committed a fireable offense PRIOR to the meeting, Roger just would have threatened him with that outright and not paid him anything.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
roger's a bully and harry's a pushover, pete getting that office was never in doubt
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 22:10 (eleven years ago) link
harry is no tyrus
― =D (am0n), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
troo
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
well, Pete wanted Roger's office. Roger just looked around for the easiest target/least valuable company asset.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it's a sign of how much that power dynamic has shifted that roger felt the need to proactively find a solution to the problem.
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
and maybe a sign of pete's relative maturity that he settles (for now at least) for harry's office even though he still feels slighted. both of these guys can be such babies.
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
xxp that's kinda true, but then who else has an office? don... does cooper even have one these days or does he just float around? harry isn't really among minnows in that company.
dunno why i'm defending him though, what a chump.
― Boo-Yaa Too Rough International Boo-Yaa Empire (Merdeyeux), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:24 (eleven years ago) link
Cooper doesn't have an office. I think he just lounges around the conference room and the reception area. otoh he doesn't actually do anything.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
so yeah I think Pete, Harry, Lane, Don, Roger (and maybe Ken?) are the ones with offices. Joan has an office in the middle of the layout iirc.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
ah, forgot about Lane.
― Boo-Yaa Too Rough International Boo-Yaa Empire (Merdeyeux), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
anyway, has Don always hated Harry? His open contempt in this last episode was p lol, but not something I remember happening before this season.
― Boo-Yaa Too Rough International Boo-Yaa Empire (Merdeyeux), Friday, 6 April 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think so but don's never been a teddybear
― balls, Friday, 6 April 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
iirc harry had nothing to do last season, except for the hilarious moment when they stole a quilt from his office to cover miss blankenship's rolling corpse.
― techno pink (reddening), Saturday, 7 April 2012 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
sally draper is the best. hahaha
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 9 April 2012 02:08 (eleven years ago) link
I'm actually enjoying Henry's mother in this one.
Scene in an Italian restaurant (bottle of red), was amazing.
― dan selzer, Monday, 9 April 2012 02:41 (eleven years ago) link
Holy shit, "Mystery Date" was a real game! I thought Simpsons writers made it up.
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 9 April 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FITNb__0J80
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 9 April 2012 03:04 (eleven years ago) link
This was a hilarious episode until about halfway through when it got dark as fuck.
― LaMonte, Monday, 9 April 2012 03:30 (eleven years ago) link
Don's fever dream was unnecessary imo. The tension of will he/won't he has been neutered by being answered (he will, apparently).
Agree that Henry's mother was a guilty pleasure this week.
Also, WTG Joan!
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 9 April 2012 04:11 (eleven years ago) link
New guy reminds me of Chachi...of Happy Days and Joanie Loves Chachi.
― *tera, Monday, 9 April 2012 04:16 (eleven years ago) link
omg yes
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 9 April 2012 04:17 (eleven years ago) link
yah, fever dream was that bullshit
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 04:17 (eleven years ago) link
Ken Cosgrove's "you almost got fired right then" was awesome.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 9 April 2012 04:18 (eleven years ago) link
Thought it was just too gratuitous. Maybe it will become something poignant later.
― *tera, Monday, 9 April 2012 04:24 (eleven years ago) link
YES! was going to point this out last week but forgot. especially in profile.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Monday, 9 April 2012 04:55 (eleven years ago) link
http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PEGGY-COUNTING-MONEY.gif
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 9 April 2012 05:39 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy has the best gifs this season.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 9 April 2012 05:44 (eleven years ago) link
(and pretty much every season)
I loved this episode. I thought the fever dream worked okay since it was telegraphed pretty hard. I don't think it was much as a "will he/won't he" thing as a weird way of looking at how Don feels baout things in his new marriage and whatnot.
Sally Draper is the best. Peggy shouldn't get so drunk, but maybe she doesn't have much more tact when she's sober tbh. She's definitely a better negotiator than Harry Crane though.
Epic lols at Roger sneaking through the office behind Pete as Pink Panther-like music played.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 9 April 2012 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
If Peggy had just grabbed her purse from the coffee table in one fluid motion without stopping to think "OMG RACIST BEHAVIOR" it would've been no big thing. I'd take my wallet into my own room no matter who was staying over. It was nice of Dawn to leave a thank you note, though.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 9 April 2012 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
peggy-roger scene was probably the funniest thing in the history of the show. or maybe i'm just mad tired, i dunno. sally and henry's mother also a great duo.
― Boo-Yaa Too Rough International Boo-Yaa Empire (Merdeyeux), Monday, 9 April 2012 06:16 (eleven years ago) link
my take on don somewhat confirmed by this episode
and yeah, peggy and roger bartering was one my favorite moments in the show's history. moss really on top of her character there.
nice character bit: michael's moral revulsion when others found the murders exciting didn't prevent him from exploiting that excitement in his "dark" cinderella pitch. also intrigued by the creepy parallels between that pitch and the story of the speck murders as told to sally by betty's mother in law. both narratives revolved for a moment around the possibility of a stranger's handsomeness, though to very different ends. tied together in the middle by don's dream.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Monday, 9 April 2012 08:23 (eleven years ago) link
god i had forgotten about those murders in chicago, christ. my mom says that was really, really upsetting to her.
felt like this was one of the better episodes of this show.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 9 April 2012 10:51 (eleven years ago) link
d'you guys take the 1st half of the woman in yellow's visit as real or dreamed? i like to think it was dreamed and in don's subconscious it's important to him that she'd point out that he was a good interior decorator
― johnny crunch, Monday, 9 April 2012 11:11 (eleven years ago) link
100% dream when she shows up at the apartment imo.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 9 April 2012 12:59 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, I doubt the elevator lady felt compelled to track down and then try to have sex with the sweaty coughing mess she saw in the elevator.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 9 April 2012 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
also if she hadn't seen him for six years she had fuck-all chance of finding where he lives now
I'd take my wallet into my own room no matter who was staying over.
otm, esp as she's used to living with a flatmate. this was v unfair to Peggy imo
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Monday, 9 April 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
</capnsaveapeggy>
thought the purse thing was unsubtle and lame, right up to I LEFT YOU A NOTE ON YOUR PURSE YOU SECRET RACIST
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
I'm glad now that Greg didn't get killed in Vietnam because seeing him get told off and thrown out of the house was way more satisfying.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 9 April 2012 14:41 (eleven years ago) link
Tminus how many episodes until Peggy sleeps with Ginsberg
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Monday, 9 April 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
He'll still get killed in Vietnam.
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
IMO, the purse thing wasnt to show Peggy's secret racism but more to show that race/racism as a social reality.
― ryan, Monday, 9 April 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
I thought it was to show peggy as trying too hard, because lonely.
― s.clover, Monday, 9 April 2012 14:52 (eleven years ago) link
but I mean it was a great mad men moment because awkward and not too outrageously contrived and v. much of the time with a whole bunch of context and meaning and interpretation captured basically by deft editing and not much else.
― s.clover, Monday, 9 April 2012 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
also still LOVE the mystery date jingle
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 9 April 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
wait that was madchen amick
― Waxahachie Swap (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 9 April 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
thought Henry's mother's knife underscored the "I AM SCARRING YOU, BETTY DRAPER" a bit too heavily but man those scenes were creepy/lol
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
seconal, passed out under the couch omg
er SALLY Draper
Giving Sally a downer a week after recommending Betty start taking uppers!
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 9 April 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
peggy's purse faux pas was the capper on a kind of overall misfire on her part -- trying to reach out but really making everything about herself. I love glimpses into unguarded peggy's mind, but dawn was clearly hesitant to trust her and peggy was kind of bulldozing over her the whole conversation. which is unflattering to peggy but a totally worthwhile thing to highlight imo, the different levels of privilege occurring within SCDP itself.
― techno pink (reddening), Monday, 9 April 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
Like we know we can trust Peggy, but her boozy "don't worry about it" attitude when Dawn asks her not to tell Don...it wasn't convincing at all.
― techno pink (reddening), Monday, 9 April 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
by my count Roger's tally for bribing people in the office into doing things for him is up to $1410 so far this season
― dmr, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, kinda hoping this becomes a running gag.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
trying to reach out but really making everything about herself
yeah def. and projecting her own career path/hopes and dreams onto Dawn in a way that was unintentionally really condescending. thinking that every secretary secretly wants to be a copywriter, etc
thought it was pretty well done the way the "white people problems" media anxiety over the student nurse murders overshadowed the riots. bumping it off the cover of Life magazine and Peggy saying "but you're not a nurse" ... oh.
― dmr, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
the Don dream kinda ruined the episode for me tbh. just lame.
― dmr, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, loved this. getting expensive for roger to get his way.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't think the Don-dream thing was so bad but the whole "sick fever dream of cheating/murder" was a total Sopranos rehash
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
loved the Peggy and Dawn scenes, so uncomfortable. wondering if Dawn is gonna get some actual background/characterization at some point
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
$1410 so far this season
Isn't that about $7-8,000 in 2012 dollars?
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
but the whole "sick fever dream of cheating/murder" was a total Sopranos rehash
well yeah. that's why it sucked. sort of been done to death.
― dmr, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
the "I am so irresistable, even when totally sick" thing telegraphed it a bit
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
nice character bit: michael's moral revulsion when others found the murders exciting didn't prevent him from exploiting that excitement in his "dark" cinderella pitch.
that was pretty well done.
the attempts to allude to the murders and make it a theme through the rest of the episode, I didn't think it really added up to anything. "she escaped by hiding under the bed" --> Sally sleeps under the couch, Don stuffs a corpse under his bed
― dmr, Monday, 9 April 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
that's the ongoing "all this stuff means something; see the connections?" show-and-don't-go madmen trademark
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
because I still envision a horrible future for Sally, that shot where she looks at the bottle of pills felt like it should have been underscored with a DUN-DUN-DUNNNN musical sting.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 9 April 2012 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
Anyone wanna give a wiki link to the murders? I don't know much about American history of nurse killers.
― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
Here's the lurid version that Henry's mother would be a fan of:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/speck/index_1.html
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
was familiar with but had largely forgotten about Speck.
o_0 at the prison video ref'd in the wiki tho
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
I remember seeing the part of that video aired by some Bill Kurtis program in the 90s.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
btw what did Dawn's note say...? All I could make out was "thanks for your generosity" or something
"sorry for putting you out", I think?
― polyphonic, Monday, 9 April 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
would just like to say the bit where Peggy got up on the couch and folded her legs under her, with hands in her lap, ready to confess = A+
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
i did NOT know about speck, what a fucked up story.also wtf wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_rapists
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
American rapistsStay away from meeee
― polyphonic, Monday, 9 April 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
aaaanyway we all know about this already right
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 17:33 (eleven years ago) link
More than that! $50 to the secretary in the debut, $1100 to Harry same ep, and $410 to Peggy last night
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 9 April 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
Just wanted to point out that the show must have a product placement deal w/Bugles, as Mother Francis was eating them while watching tv just like FatBetty.
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 9 April 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
there's always been tons of product placement on this show
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
ha i though the bugles was a nice link between Betty and Mother Francis (as was "your mother is obsese.")
― ryan, Monday, 9 April 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
Bugles: Fat People Like 'Em!tm
― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
anyone else feel robbed of at least a season's worth of potboilery baby daddy drama by joan's dumping the motherfucker already?
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
you misspelled "saved from"
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
anyone else think that the show's treatment of betty is sort of shabby/creepy and indicative of certain issues on the part of its creator(s)?
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
xp lol, i guess so
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
and yes, i agree with you
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
I think you could definitely make a case that this show has "mommy" issues... in contrast to Don (who's shown more or less being a dad who at least loves his children), pretty much all the mothers on the show have been portrayed in a pretty negative light.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
BettyPeggy's motherHenry's motherJoan's mother (altho in the last couple episodes she doesn't come off so badly...?)
Mona Sterling seemed to have her shit together, I guess
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
Campbell's ice-cold mother too
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
how are the daddies in general, besides absent? the only ones coming to mind are pete's dead one and lane's violent one.
― Boo-Yaa Too Rough International Boo-Yaa Empire (Merdeyeux), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
Betty's dad was pretty cool.
― polyphonic, Monday, 9 April 2012 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
Don's drunk, violent one
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
Trudy's dad seems manipulative but not entirely evil. at least responsible and caring towards his daughter.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
The women on the show are just pretty faces or they are Joan, Betty, Peggy, Sally and now Mother Francis This is why I was hoping Megan has some major character development. Hate that Betty's just sort of stagnated with a lame weight issue so far. Would have appreciated more Sally time instead of the Don dream.
― *tera, Monday, 9 April 2012 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
The women on the show are just pretty faces or they are Joan, Betty, Peggy, Sally and now Mother Francis
mmm no. Trudy, Megan. Wouldn't exactly call the LIFE mag woman a "pretty face" lol
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:10 (eleven years ago) link
oh you ref'd Megan - sorry. Trudy isn't major but I do think she's past the "pretty face" accusation
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
trying to reach out but really making everything about herself.
yes--it wasn't just peggy glancing at the purse. dawn looked uncomfortable with much of their conversation, esp the latter half. i think part of this may be peggy's self-centeredness but also a reaction to what i think might be perceived by dawn as a kind of uncomfortable intimacy. not sexual intimacy, just.... well just as peggy probably doesn't have much experience hanging out with black folks, i wonder if dawn has much experience hanging out with white folks. and by going from 1 to 11 on the relax-o-meter peggy probably made dawn pretty uncomfortable. the purse thing was just the capper.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy was doing a lot of projection/nervous white person stuff. Eager to spotlight their similarities without actually talking about race etc
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
that's the ongoing "all this stuff means something; see the connections?" show-and-don't-go madmen trademark― wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Monday, April 9, 2012 11:37 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, this. sometimes it comes together nicely just on the level of patterning, sometimes it actually means something, other times it seems like they are trying too hard to signal their "quality" status by hitting you over the head with this meaningless parallelism. i think this last episode fit more in category 1 but YMMV. the worst instance of this had to be that "beautiful girls" episode.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, April 9, 2012 5:15 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, the moment peggy shifted from "i know what it's like to be the only one of your kind" (OK, sure) to "and i know all about your ambitions and concerns" (uh..) dawn began to look uncomfortable.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:20 (eleven years ago) link
"Pretty faces" as in featured extras. I would love to see more Trudy.
― *tera, Monday, 9 April 2012 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
Don is totally useless at being anything more than a weekend parent, think of the episode from last season where Sally threw a tantrum in his office. If the mothers come off worse on this show it's usually because they carry the greater burden; they're simply in proximity to the kids more, without many (or any) other outlets, so their arbitrariness and cruelty stand out.
Betty is this but with the added challops of being relentlessly immature. The show's refusal to let her grow up or learn from experience like, at all, is its worst part imo, if it's just gonna be Fat Morticia this season I'd rather they write her out altogether.
― RCMP, Monday, 9 April 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
If the mothers come off worse on this show it's usually because they carry the greater burden
lol what "burden" did Betty carry - Carla did everything
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:44 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno about the "burdens" borne by the parents on the show whose children are already grown (which is all the other mothers I listed)
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:45 (eleven years ago) link
would say the show is more broadly about dysfunctional families, rather than dysfunctional moms
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Monday, 9 April 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
Wow, whoever brought up the sociopathic stuff a few weeks ago was otm with this whole dream sequence!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 9 April 2012 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
i felt very otm in that moment, though it was veggie girl who first called don a sociopath itt
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Monday, 9 April 2012 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
ah c'mon who among us hasn't dreamed of strangled an ex amirite
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 9 April 2012 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
tbrr tho... if Don had actually murdered her that would have been evidence for his being a sociopath. But dreaming about it just means that he's anxious about reconciling his past and his libido with his relationship with Megan. It has zero bearing on whether or not he's a sociopath (which, in case it isn't obvious, I don't really think is supported by the series - his relationship with Anna and, to a lesser extent Joan and Peggy, suggest otherwise)
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 April 2012 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah but this is still close to a 'plate of shrimp' moment
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 9 April 2012 23:48 (eleven years ago) link
thought it was pretty well done the way the "white people problems" media anxiety over the student nurse murders overshadowed the riots. bumping it off the cover of Life magazine and Peggy saying "but you're not a nurse" ... oh.― dmr, Monday, April 9, 2012 1:21 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― dmr, Monday, April 9, 2012 1:21 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Not that it invalidates your point, bit iirc the nurses in Chicago were all filipina, not white.
― LaMonte, Monday, 9 April 2012 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
Shakey Don comes off as "more or less being a dad who at least loves his children" only because he gets to be the cool weekend escape glamorous fun parent. All the dads do. They get to flee into Manhattan, stylish offices and casting calls. They're also neglectful, alcoholic, philandering and sometimes violent. This is why I don't think the show itself has "mommy issues," except maybe in how regressive Betty continues to be.
The show is obviously about this insane level of privilege enjoyed by a very narrow sliver of society, how wonderful and glamorous and easy it is, just before it's seriously challenged. All I'm saying is the freedom to neglect your kids with impunity is one of these privileges. Despite her class, Betty and the others don't have access to this in quite the same way.
― RCMP, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
some were "white," some filipina.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
All the dads do. They get to flee into Manhattan, stylish offices and casting calls. They're also neglectful, alcoholic, philandering and sometimes violent.
violent?
where does this "all the dads do" come from? none of the other father characters (only ones I can think of with small children are Lane, whose family has been out of the country, and Pete, whose child is just a baby) do any of this.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
and I think Don's been shown to genuinely be concerned for his children's physical welfare in a way that Betty is not
I'm talking about all of the mothers and fathers on the show, regardless of age, as people were upthread. Lane's dad was violent, as was Grandma Francis'. When did we switch to just this generation?
I agree with your second point but Don's way of expressing concern (on a fundamental, life-choices level) is "where's a woman who can handle this?"
― RCMP, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 01:13 (eleven years ago) link
I'm talking about all of the mothers and fathers on the show, regardless of age, as people were upthread.
^^^this, does not jibe with this:They get to flee into Manhattan, stylish offices and casting calls. They're also neglectful, alcoholic, philandering and sometimes violent.
the only generation depicted fleeing to Manhattan's stylish offices and casting calls is Don's generation.
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 01:44 (eleven years ago) link
Don's dad may have been violent, alcoholic, neglectful and philandering but that was obviously unrelated to Manhattan lol
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 01:45 (eleven years ago) link
The show's refusal to let her grow up or learn from experience like, at all, is its worst part imo
Work with/know plenty of people in real life who won't grow up or learn from experience, and its not their writers holding them back
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
No way is Don a sociopath. The man's got the full range of emotional responses, plus extra kinks, but he's understandably shy about showing them given his era, his past as an impersonation of a dead man, and a man who saw nasty shit while he was in Korea 9inlcuding being blown up, which would give anyone PTSD)
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 02:31 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know Shakey, I think it's pretty heavily implied (by the show, by history) that previous generations acted this way too, whether in New York, London, wherever. Yes Don's dad was a poor, mean motherfucker -- which was kind of my point to begin with, that the show doesn't let the fathers off any easier, in general. Again, I think Don superficially comes across as a better father because of the era-sensitive social role his gender allows him, where creeping distance isn't called neglect.
He's not one of the fathers mentioned above, but Pete's new train buddy is such an obvious dickwad, and he spells out the accepted of-its-time working man's response to family life in such a methodical way... it's like a Mad Men mission statement, all our people are still shit, just different.
― RCMP, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 02:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, but when the "people" are fictional, it's always the writers holding them back. betty can't catch a break, and the only thing it seems to serve is the writers' distaste for the character.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
you have to wonder if jan. jones wonders what she's got herself into (aside from a nice paycheck of course)
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 03:33 (eleven years ago) link
new answers: a fatsuit
Gerhard Richter painting of the nurses, btw:http://www.gerhard-richter.com/art/paintings/photo_paintings/detail.php?5770
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 03:44 (eleven years ago) link
The song "The Ballad of TV Violence" from the first '77 self titled Cheap Trick album was originally called "The Ballad of Richard Speck" and is about Richard Speck. Their label made them change the track to "The Ballad of TV Violence" because they thought "The Ballad of Richard Speck" was too offensive.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 03:58 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m28c5i6e1r1qi0d7lo6_500.gif
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m28c5i6e1r1qi0d7lo7_500.gif
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
I said pretty much exactly this during Ginsberg's first scene. He's exactly the kind of borderline insane dick she ends up going for.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
WTF that was Madchen Amick that Don strangled?!?!
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
She looks exactly the same!
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 16:17 (eleven years ago) link
Someone photoshop Don peeking from behind bed post a la Bob.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:20 (eleven years ago) link
or comatose, sitting in a wheelchair wearing a party hat.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
Put that scene, the tractor accident, and a few others together, you could make a pretty convincing fake trailer about Mad Men as a horror movie.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
add:
Lane receiving a beatingJoan getting rapedany scene with the creepy neighbor kid
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
Betty shooting those birds
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
pretty much any close up on a character looking sad and desperate
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
Don crying after hearing about Anna's death + ghost Anna
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
Whitman bro dangling from the rafters
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
Mother Frances wielding that knife.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
Don getting clunked over the head by the hitchhiker.
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
Pete with his gun.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bKhcK9Skhes/TMyqxLpmMaI/AAAAAAAACRw/5sdQnn-pjSg/s400/600px-mad107-rifle2.jpg
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
MADMEN
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
Sterling barfing
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
Don stalking the teacher in his car
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
The Creature from the Black Lagoon pitching an Esso ad
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
Don's dream was a low point for this show
― Number None, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
might actually have been the worst episode
― Number None, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
he was naked but they blacked out his "dick whitman".
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
loved the dream. spooky, bewildering, suited the episode (which i thought was pretty great overall). rewatched it with my gf last night. she freaked the fuck out @ the dream sequence and i had to bite my tongue hard to keep from spoil(er)ing it.
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
When Don brought the Barbie back into the house-Sally's hysterical screaming.
― *tera, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that was wack. i thought the episode was good overall (better than the first three, anyway) and i got so excited when he killed the woman then felt so cheated. this manipulative bullshit feels old hat.
― jed_, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:48 (eleven years ago) link
you seriously didn't realise it was a dream the whole time? that said, it would have been cool if the show turned into The Fugitive
― Number None, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
the thing I wondered about was ... do people really have service elevators in their kitchen?
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
not only service elevators, but service elevators behind weird semi-concealed wallpapered doors?
i'm surprised no one else mentioned dong draper (or lack thereof), have we no libidos?
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
I guess the shots in which it should've shown up didn't register as such to me
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 23:58 (eleven years ago) link
xp if you had a service elevator wouldn't you hide it behind a wallpaper door?
maybe he dreamt the service elevator
― Number None, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
i figured it was a door to a back hallway in which she would find the service elevator, not a straight-up elevator door in the kitchen
― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
but yeah, dream sequence, who knows
I think I would've been annoyed at the fever dream if it didn't align so well, thematically, with the rest of the episode.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
that was one of the more annoying things about it
― Number None, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
Dong Draper's Inverted Clam (DJ PEG.g.y. Refix)
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 01:53 (eleven years ago) link
idg why you guys are so annoyed by the dream?
― D-40, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 09:04 (eleven years ago) link
thought this was a v good ep
dream was convincing & i've 100% had anxious fever dreams where i felt like a horrible human being & woke up to find out it was completely false
― D-40, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 09:05 (eleven years ago) link
tell us about the murders
― Number None, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 09:09 (eleven years ago) link
ITS ALL A LIE
― D-40, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 09:15 (eleven years ago) link
― D-40, Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:05 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i feel like a horrible human being while awake all the time.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 10:35 (eleven years ago) link
i didn't like the dream sequence - it made me feel queasy so i guess it was effective, and i can see how it fit the episode's essential themes, but i found it unconvincing and i totally rolled my eyes. excellent episode otherwise, though. weiner packs a lot of stuff into 50 minutes.
― I accidentally sonned your dome (stevie), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 10:46 (eleven years ago) link
Totally hackneyed and obvious, also poorly written
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 12:46 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not completely convinced by the dream sequence, but loved the rest of the episode. Everyone might have been a bit too clever, but there were enough interesting bits. Sally and Henry's mom interacting was great.
― mh, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 14:28 (eleven years ago) link
dream sequence was telegraphed from the moment he collapsed on the bed and by the time he was strangling the woman it's moving into insulting that they are asking me to suspend disbelief that this is "actually happening"c.f. betty's dream sequence in ep prior
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe the only part that was a dream was where he thought he killed her.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 14:58 (eleven years ago) link
I mean, it did seem to last pretty long, cutting back to other plot points, etc.
Yeah, I initially thought it couldn't have been a dream b/c it wasn't a stand-alone scene.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
megan says she came straight home and he was deliriousi think with that info, the only reading that makes sense to me is that either he fever dreamed the whole thing or everything after he pushed her out the back door and i'm inclined to think the formerlines like "they think she made all this but I know it was you" are VERY draper-y ni their subtext; also the suggestion that this chick is so desperate for don dick that she finds his new home the day after she finds out he's married is kinda hella unlikely?
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
not even the day after! it's like five hours later!
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
that is why I thought it was a dream when she showed up there
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
dreams are almost always dumb in movies and books, right?
― homosexual II, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
Dude we know it was a dream
― man down (D-40), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
Sopranos, Twin Peaks dream sequences = A+
― Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
Gilligan's Island too
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
It was all a dream. Used to read life magazine. Pan Am, Kodak up in the limousine. Hanging storyboards on my wall...
― s.clover, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
― pandemic, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
lord custos tribute thread
― dmr, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
man practically every one of Pauline's lines in this episode was amazing. "you can watch the sunset from your bedroom window. It's the saddest sight in the world" etc.
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 April 2012 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
^ yeah, that one especially
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Thursday, 12 April 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like they introduced her as a major character b/c let's face it betty herself is boring
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 12 April 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
<i>"new home the day after she finds out he's married is kinda hella unlikely?"</i>Still very possible in the days before FB and Google via phonebooks and tricking the secretary into divulging that information. But yeah, there is no doubt it was a dream.
But she could have been that desperate and found what she was looking for, finally. Remember Beat girl planting herself in his lobby? Still, I have no doubt it was dream.
― *tera, Thursday, 12 April 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
Could almost be a song.
― Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 12 April 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
but stiiiillllli have.....NO DOUBTit was a dreeeeeeam
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 12 April 2012 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
Speck, performing oral sex on another inmate,[39][40] sharing a huge pile of cocaine with an inmate, parading in silk panties, sporting female-like breasts (allegedly grown using smuggled hormone treatments), and boasting, "If they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd turn me loose."
what level of fuckery this is?
― moullet, Friday, 13 April 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
high fuckery
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Friday, 13 April 2012 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
it made me miss the slick rick gig.
― jed_, Friday, 13 April 2012 00:35 (eleven years ago) link
lots of talk that he was basically forced to do all that and to take the hormones.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 13 April 2012 01:59 (eleven years ago) link
either way a pretty shitty dude so i'm not cryin or nuthin
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 13 April 2012 02:00 (eleven years ago) link
Saw Michael Gladis last night at the Radiohead concert in Santa Barbara.
― Melissa W, Friday, 13 April 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
Sally Draper is on Jimmy Fallon's show tonight. woo!
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 14 April 2012 04:38 (eleven years ago) link
She's not at Dakota Fanning levels of freakish maturity for someone young, but she's on top of things for sure.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 14 April 2012 05:18 (eleven years ago) link
pete is so entertaining.
lol @ don hating the suburbs
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 16 April 2012 02:19 (eleven years ago) link
These sportcoats are killing me. Make it stop.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 16 April 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
i know right!
i like how cosgrove is completely under the radar and then you realize he's probably the most interesting person who works there
also cracked up by all the cliché stuff from pete/trudy about how wonderful it is to live in the suburbs
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 16 April 2012 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
oh my god this show XD
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 16 April 2012 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
"i know cooler heads should prevail, but am i the only one who wants to see this?"
― johnny crunch, Monday, 16 April 2012 02:56 (eleven years ago) link
ILU Lane.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 16 April 2012 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
Pete and the prostitute had me rolling...
blah blah blah.No.blah blah blah.No.You are my king.Yes.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 16 April 2012 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
"Hard day at the office"
No
"It's my first time and I'm really scared"
etc
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 16 April 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
i feel mad men is catering to audience desires much more than before (joan divorcing mcrapey, pete getting his ass kicked). but it's been really enjoyable to watch all the same.
― High powered Texas lawyer (symsymsym), Monday, 16 April 2012 03:32 (eleven years ago) link
lol at Pete getting whooped and lol at Lane being a Mets fan.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 16 April 2012 05:04 (eleven years ago) link
CHEWING GUM ON HIS PUBIS
― FMLAO (get bent), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
http://skreened.com/tvtime/pete-campbell-is-a-grimy-little-pimp
― FMLAO (get bent), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:20 (eleven years ago) link
here comes success
― Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Monday, 16 April 2012 06:28 (eleven years ago) link
no!
There we go
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:29 (eleven years ago) link
wow, that was fast. great episode, too. agree that they're swinging a bit towards fanservice, but i don't mind. pete's been asking for that for a while. also, get bent OTM.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:31 (eleven years ago) link
hamm's reactions to the fight were killing me.
― High powered Texas lawyer (symsymsym), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:34 (eleven years ago) link
god yeah, don's jacket at the party. hoped that he, at least, might be spared the indignity.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:39 (eleven years ago) link
he got laid w/e
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:50 (eleven years ago) link
starting to hate don's "love has made me new man" schtick, though noose doodles are promising
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:55 (eleven years ago) link
I kind of dig it, at least as its presented to people on the outside.
I also like his newfound sense of openness, as in telling the madame that he grew up in a whorehouse. It's all gonna go wrong, I'll bet.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 16 April 2012 06:57 (eleven years ago) link
the "things feel like they're speeding up" dialogue between pete and the high school girl has got to be the worst passage in this show yet.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 07:07 (eleven years ago) link
all of her little soliloquoy was cringeworthy actually
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 07:08 (eleven years ago) link
i covet pete's giant stereo system though, damn.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 07:09 (eleven years ago) link
good episode. lots of weird hard cuts between scenes and odd graphic matches and stuff.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 07:42 (eleven years ago) link
More ammo tonight for whoever it was that thought Pete will be the falling man.
― Dan I., Monday, 16 April 2012 08:02 (eleven years ago) link
?? people really take it that literally ??
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 08:10 (eleven years ago) link
I thought it was in this thread! Then where was I reading someone's conspiracy theory about Pete jumping out a window?
― Dan I., Monday, 16 April 2012 08:22 (eleven years ago) link
"good episode. lots of weird hard cuts between scenes and odd graphic matches and stuff."
there was a cut from someone leaving a door in the office to someone else opening another door in the office which was obviously intentional but also confused my brain for a split second
― akm, Monday, 16 April 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
I was a bit overwhelmed by all the match cuts. Think Slattery had too much fun directing.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 16 April 2012 14:15 (eleven years ago) link
But otherwise yeah great ep omg.
yeah, this annoyed me. too self-consciously clever for the fact that it just didn't work, plus meaningless.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
totally. we need less of those and more star wipes.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
12 hours and still no one has popped in to grumble about Cosgrove's story at the end? ilx losing it's edge!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
okay I like Ken a lot more now
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
for some reason, i figured he was gonna be a sci-fi writer from the moment the idea was introduced
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
I like Ken a lot, but I don't know how much of it is the character and how much of it is from playing a lot of LA Noir.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
he was too much of a non-entity before - between this and his "pact" with Peggy and his refusal to exploit his family connections for business he's become a lot more well-defined
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
i don't agree. they p much fleshed him out when the fact he was a writer came up originally. and when sal was in love with him because he realised that unlike the others he actually was intelligent and had an appreciation and understanding of art.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
that episode (The Gold Violin) was pretty much the most screen-time Ken ever had in the series and it was in, what, the first season...?
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
season 2 apparently
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
I think it sort of comes down to the series/MW not having as much interest in Ken precisely because Ken is a guy without any super-crushing issues.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
yeah - the writer-thing was a characteristic but it didn't generate any kind of conflict. now Ken's being set up as a guy who's a bit torn between work and his desire for a personal life outside the office
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
Still weirding me out though that instead of descending further into Roger-like decrepitude Don may have actually kind of sort of started figuring out what makes him happy. WTF mad men, what happened to the misery and squalor
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
Pete crying in the elevator wasn't enough for you?
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
Don should've peed on him
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
this episode was amazing btw
amazed that anyone finds anything to like in pete, other than the skill with which he is made to seem completely insufferable and horrid
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
"i thought we were supposed to be friends"
FUCK YOU
The best thing about Pete is that he can make you turn your feelings about him right around on a dime.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 16 April 2012 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
which this episode did in spades
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones
ken is a fairly minor character and mainly operates as a foil to pete campbell. first season they're usually together, do the same job, and both equally obnoxious. ken however shows some growth, and generally is like pete campbell but with more substance and less connivance. when it was originally revealed he was a writer its main consequence was pete's pathetic attempt to compete with him. they then are competing again as joint accounts directors, tho pete takes it a lot more seriously than ken.
ken is also loathe to use family connections, while pete owes his job to his family connections, and happily exploits his father-in-law as well.
now they've brought his writing up again, and again it shows him as different from pete. pete coming home from the whorehouse to the darkened house. ken sitting in the bright cosy room with his wife asleep by his side writing a story (about pete). i think ken's writing may come up again in the show, but i don't think it will be a major plot point.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
agree in general that the whole high school girl soliloquoy was stiffer than it should have been. otoh I have literally had teenage girls ask the "doesn't it feel like time is speeding up?" question so I dunno... also seemed to call back to Don's conversation with the girls at the Rolling Stones show.
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
Ken will probably end up having authored the book this whole show is based on.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 16 April 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
see, i don't get that. he's always been exactly the same arrogant, thankless, self-aggrandizing scumbag. this episode just underlined it.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
well at least he's not a racist
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
talking about don's conversation with the girls at the stones show. is it just me or is that going to come up again? he gave the girl his business card, she was going to go and try and get them in using it, but she never came back. the client, heinz, had said his daughter was crazy for the stones. no, as i say that that sounds too fucking stupid and coincidental for them to run with.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
Don gives out lots of business cards
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i know i already feel dumb.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
still waiting for that epileptic drifter dude from S3 to come back somehow
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
For some reason it felt like there were a lot more stylized transitions in this episode.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 April 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
Awesome ep, that whole fight scene was hall of fame, also everything Roger said.
Can't work out who I felt more sorry for, Ken or Laine. But yeah Jim otm about Ken as foil for Pete.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 16 April 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
What was Ken and Peggy's pact again?
― Vasco da Gama, Monday, 16 April 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
not to bring in any business without the other
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
Ah yeah from when they landed the hosiery manufacturer client together, ty
― Vasco da Gama, Monday, 16 April 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
Awesome episode. The post-fight makeup job was horrendous tho.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 April 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
mad fun
― moullet, Monday, 16 April 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
"He thinks you're a homo!"
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 16 April 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
^^^I totally missed the clues leading up to Pete delivering that line
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
I think it was because Lane was asking such intimate questions at their diner, and also that he didn't try to get the Jaguar guy laid.
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 16 April 2012 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
Laine also dropped the fact that he complained about his wife to the jaguar guy
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 April 2012 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
fun episode
― Number None, Monday, 16 April 2012 23:23 (eleven years ago) link
I enjoyed it.
I was growing tired of Don's predictable nature in past seasons so I like seeing this change in him. At the same time I like seeing other characters become a bit darker. See other people wreck for a change.
― *tera, Monday, 16 April 2012 23:45 (eleven years ago) link
"doesn't it feel like time is speeding up?"
technically as we get older it DOES actually feel like time is speeding up because our sense of time/memory is tracked to novelty and affective arousal (=strong emotions) and those things are often fewer and farther between as we get older. but i wouldn't expect a teenager of all people to notice this yet.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
also it's kind of incredible trolling by weiner that the one major dyed-in-the-wool liberal on the show (pete) is also one of the most personally despicable.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
pete's probably the only partner that votes democratic--don, roger, and cooper have all talked conspiratorily about how they wish nixon would come back etc. who knows re. layne.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
like how sometimes we catch the tail end of a political conversation. the show has characters talking politics only sparingly, which i guess is fair because if they made people's attitudes toward e.g. LBJ a major plot point we'd all be complaining about how on-the-nose it all was.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GDEgmGnOSVk/Tdgn_4rFy0I/AAAAAAAAAB0/ZDJ1rrD6iAw/s1600/Lbj.jpg
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 16 April 2012 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
http://images.politico.com/global/news/090927_lbj_ap_297.jpg
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 April 2012 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
As a Democrat and a Texan, I still find that I have some mixed feelings about LBJ. I have even heard older, staunch Democrats being very vocal in their dislike for him.
― *tera, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
don't see pete's liberalism/scumbagginess as trolling. there are plenty of other presumably liberaly-leaning characters on the show. the creative types, perhaps peggy, etc. pete's just pete.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
make that "liberal-leaning"
it's trolling insofar as pete is potentially a figure of audience-identitication but they go to considerable lengths to undermine that.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
(i mean i imagine the core mad men audience to be urban liberals, no?)
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, April 16, 2012 7:02 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
other than the pipe-smoking guy in the 1st season, and some minor characters, i don't think anyone's been cast consistently as a "liberal" as much as pete. peggy is obviously more "open minded" than most but i don't think he's voiced much in the way of explicit political opinions (unless we want to project her boyfriend's radical politics onto her).
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:10 (eleven years ago) link
SHE'S voiced...
i identify with peggy and joan more than any of the leading men on the show. and with the second-string guys like harry and ken. fact that don isn't a liberal isn't what prevents me from identifying with him.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:12 (eleven years ago) link
i guess in joan's case, it's more sympathize than identify
i KNOW that... i'm just saying that it would have been easy to make this urbanite liberal character the focus of audience identification, and they very self-consiously made him a total leper
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:12 (eleven years ago) link
never mind
As a Democrat and a Texan, I still find that I have some mixed feelings about LBJ.
Most of us liberals do! It'll never get resolved.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:14 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, no, it's cool. figure that michael ginsberg will likely be a liberal.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:18 (eleven years ago) link
Weird to divvy up the characters based on who they'd vote for! I feel, somehow, that Weiner is planting references to Rep/Dem affiliation deliberately as red herrings.
― poxen, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 00:57 (eleven years ago) link
Kinsey was probably the biggest liberal on the show. And the biggest douche.
― LaMonte, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 01:25 (eleven years ago) link
no way was he the _biggest_ douche.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
I felt like a bunch of characters had good paths through the episode. Don goes from skeptical to the virtual hero of the party to that shit-eating grin hookup in the car and later the classic, "I grew up in a place like this, but we called it a whorehouse."
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 01:33 (eleven years ago) link
contenderizer OTM, this pete thing is key in making the show less and less believable. don's the only one who has anything to fear from him iirc but i can't swallow the other characters reactions to him. he would either have had a stern talking to or (more realistically) just be made a pariah rather than, uh, be challenged to a round of fisticuffs. this episode was so silly.
― jed_, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 01:36 (eleven years ago) link
Parts of the episode (not least the fight) struck me as comically over the top. And was anyone else annoyed by Lane kissing Joan? For me, the whole appeal of their relationship was that they understood and empathized with one another, and their mutual respect kept things platonic. That kiss came outta nowhere, and just seemed like an insanely pointless distraction.
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 01:45 (eleven years ago) link
loved this episode... the scifi stuff... the many emasculations of pete campbell... the fight... such a great ep.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:34 (eleven years ago) link
― Dancing with Mr. T (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, April 16, 2012 9:45 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i love that this show treats stuff like "mutual platonic respect" like the tv bullshit it is
The kiss was great because we basically needed to be reminded that lane is sort of a putz (and lane needed to be reminded too). Also Joan's response was perfect.
― s.clover, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:45 (eleven years ago) link
And was anyone else annoyed by Lane kissing Joan? For me, the whole appeal of their relationship was that they understood and empathized with one another, and their mutual respect kept things platonic. That kiss came outta nowhere, and just seemed like an insanely pointless distraction.
no, i liked it. lane's a weak man, though not a bad one, and he was both high on himself (trouncing stinky pete) and feeling threatened (broke, insulted, feeling useless, accused of being "a homo"), basically at loose ends. plus joan handled it magnificently. "Everyone in this office has wanted to do that ... to Pete Campbell." [ellipsis mine]
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:45 (eleven years ago) link
er, as s.clover said
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:46 (eleven years ago) link
Also the setup of her getting up, only to open the door and come back.
― s.clover, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
^ yeah yeah, that's mostly what i meant. just thought the line was funny too.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
I definitely agree about Joan's response...maybe I'm not ready to accept Lane as a putz, though. But it seemed forced (from a storytelling point of view), and hastily tacked-on at the last minute.
― Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
i noticed this. typically the transitions don't really register w/me but a few were glaring in this episode. a couple instances where they tried to sync up actions such as a cut from one character opening a door to another doing the same, and an odd cross-fade of pete's head lining up in successive scenes.
― Lowell N. Behold'n, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 03:00 (eleven years ago) link
John Slattery's second directing credit i think; the first had the notoriously on-the-nose final shot of three ladies in the elevator
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 03:14 (eleven years ago) link
there were some nice touches in his previous episode, i thought, and some less-nice ones. i think the man has talent.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 03:17 (eleven years ago) link
Every time there's an actor-directed episode I can't help it, I picture their character doing the directing.
― poxen, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 03:27 (eleven years ago) link
Surprised there's no talk of "the pact" between Peggy and Ken. There never seemed to be a lot of interaction between those two before and I don't think it feels that believable. Though I think it points to how Peggy is over any sense of loyalty she had towards Don since he begged her to join the new firm.
― LaMonte, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 03:35 (eleven years ago) link
I sort of like how the show doesn't try to act like we see every meaningful moment or interaction in the characters' lives. Half the characters aren't even in any given episode, so of course stuff like the pact is going to be a little surprising when it comes up. Doesn't make it unbelievable.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 03:39 (eleven years ago) link
Lane kissing Joan seemed more of a little boy wanting his mom to kiss him after a bad day or something. Maybe not to Lane.
― *tera, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
"Now with that Charles Whitmore..." "Whitman," said Dick Whitman.
― Roz, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 05:14 (eleven years ago) link
i worry that no TV show could possibly bear the amount of analysis this one gets. not that i'm not part of the problem. but often it's dispiriting when the show lobs these fairly obvious clues to us, and then all these bloggers etc. go running with them.
there's this tacit sense that they seek approval and acknowledgment for having got the clues and not fumbled them. but after a minute it all begins to seem so programmatic, like all these blog posts and stuff are just a function of the text rather than inspired and original criticism.
when i go to the usual "day after" write-ups i feel like my intelligence is being insulted by folks spending paragraphs upon paragraphs telling me how to interpret things that were (sometimes painfully) obvious when i first saw them. especially since this sort of criticism doesn't have the benefit of the long view--sitting it out until the season (or series) is over, looking at how the whole thing fits together (or doesn't).
the discussion here is generally much less groanworthy. i suppose i prefer little pithy observations about the acting, furniture, whatever to these unending "think pieces."
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 05:15 (eleven years ago) link
i suppose i prefer little pithy observations about the acting, furniture, whatever to these unending "think pieces."
21st century style. i agree though. to the seething mass of zings pithy observations that is ILX!
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 05:22 (eleven years ago) link
but it's not limited to Mad Men though. People also do recaps of everything from Gossip Girl to How I Met Your Mother with pretty much exactly the same amount of detail and "analysis".
― Roz, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 05:27 (eleven years ago) link
I do love Tom and Lorenzo's recaps through fashion, because they notice things about Mad Men's costuming that pretty much no other TV blogger does.
Last week's was particularly good: http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/04/mad-style-mystery-date.html
― Roz, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 05:34 (eleven years ago) link
damn. bookmarked that site, which i'd never seen before. best analysis of mad men's fashion and style i've seen yet. otm re joan & liz!
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 05:40 (eleven years ago) link
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 02:34 (3 hours ago) Permalink
otm...funniest episode in a long time
― I cannot host as my wife hates Walker (latebloomer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 05:48 (eleven years ago) link
yeah tom & lorenzo are good... when they stick to clothing/design.
i know lots of other shows get this treatment. this just happens to be the show i watch enough to read the blogs, etc. not that i think i will anymore.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
i have to stop reading the comment sections of show recaps. "am i the ONLY ONE who noticed _____?" and like five other people have made the same observation already.
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 07:19 (eleven years ago) link
don't know how you read those sections in the first place. i like a smart recap though.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 07:21 (eleven years ago) link
then again, I did lodge a complaint with the AV Club that their review stated that "Britain won the World Cup".
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 07:22 (eleven years ago) link
The episode kind of encouraged that mistake
― Vasco da Gama, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 07:56 (eleven years ago) link
Union jack generally preferred over the st george's cross as the symbol of england until the last quarter of a century.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 10:23 (eleven years ago) link
i have to stop reading the comment sections of show recaps. "am i the ONLY ONE who noticed _____?" and like five other people have made the same observation already
Recap comments are just as bad as any news article comments, except instead of unhinged right wing foaming at the mouth you get smug self satisfaction.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 10:57 (eleven years ago) link
stop reading the blogs, "recaps" are a plague imho
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 13:54 (eleven years ago) link
like i can see what david simon was getting at (weird, i just realized i had a dream about him last night where he fixed a hoodie of mine) when he went off on bloggers last week
what is the failure mode of a hoodie
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
you know in sports hoodies when the drawstring for the hood gets out and you can't get it back in? he had some complicated technique to get it back in involving miniature weights
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
Recaps are something I don't read unless it is something where I've missed a few episodes and I'm trying to catch up, or Mad Style since it's costume related.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think this came out of nowhere at all! there was that scene a few eps earlier where Joan was in Lane's office talking about how much she missed the office and i thought it was going to happen back then!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
i cant believe you actually watched the episode and lane's arc in it if you think that moment "came outta nowhere" or "felt hasty and tacked on"
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
Poor Lane, dude really is a fish out of water. Between his clumsy affair in the past, his fellow British dude thinking he was either too square or gay to actually have fun, and his officemates disrespecting him, he's had a weird run.
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
he won a fight tho
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
they're definitely carving out a place for him this season
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
In terms of his relationship with Joan, yeah, that's pretty much how it struck me.
― Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
I think only Pete really disrespecting him...the other guys were all pretty supportive of his attempt to woo new clients.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
There never seemed to be a lot of interaction between those two before and I don't think it feels that believable. T
the "pact" was explicitly addressed/shown at the end of last season when Peggy and Ken broke the firm's streak of losing business after Don's "letter"
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
slocki, do you mean to imply that lane kissed joan in part b/c his manliness had been challenged?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
I think he's pretty clearly been shown as super lonely, the whole thing with the mystery wallet woman a couple of episodes ago etc.
― dmr, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
not s1ocki, but that's how i took it
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
that kiss did not "come out of nowhere" it was way telegraphed
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
plus yeah, his general alienation and sense of powerlessness
yes concluding with a completely unsatisfactory and mutually degrading fight
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
Laine will be a fucking hero for decking Pete, everyone wants to do it.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
to me Pete's needlessly brutal antagonizing of Lane was the part that seemed to come out of nowhere - in the past Lane's been at least supportive of Pete and they have shared some (albeit awkward) camraderie
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
lane just shit on him and accused him of losing a big account did u not notice that part
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but Pete's defensiveness got way out of hand pretty quick
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
I mean calling him "a homo" wtf
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
Pete was lashing out & sniping at whoever was a convenient target because he was feeling emasculated for a number of reasons.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
granted Pete was unloading on Lane because of his own problems with his masculinity
ya for reals
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
Pete's character kind of a commentary on the present-day "regaining masculinity" people in his inability to find a way to really shine. He wants to somehow lead or be a success and he tries every stupid trick during the episode but ends up just looking like a dick for outing his coworker's extracurricular activities and even trying to mention his now near-useless family name to a high school kid.
I think if he existed in 2012 he wouldn't be in the "men have been denied their place by feminists/liberals/etc" but I don't think it'd be unfamiliar to his line of thought.
"You're my king."
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
yup.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
these ppl wouldnt exist in 2012 at all
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
Food for another thread, but I think that Pete's constant lack of self-realization or self-actualization is really the foundation of a certain type of backlash. Pete's sympathetic, at least to a point, with some of the civil rights struggles but the evident forces that are being confronted -- racism and sexism -- aren't really the ones that are causing him discontent. It might just be a frustration that his character will never shake, but I think a lot of people see others successfully struggling against oppressive forces and decide that their own failures -- or in Pete's case, just the lack of an overwhelming success -- are the result of oppression or someone taking what's his.
So far, Pete's only gone as far as complaining about how he thinks he's more competent than others, thankfully.
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
xp dream on.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
There are Pete's at every company I've ever worked at.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
I thought carousing and going to the Playboy Club and shit was Lane's favorite thing about America! How come all of a sudden in this episode it's like none of that ever happened? Based on the version of Lane that we've seen in previous seasons, if the dinner with the Jaguar guy is boring and seemed to have hit a wall, I'd have expected Lane to be like "Fuck it, let's go get drunk and ogle cocktail waitresses, eh chap?"
― Dan I., Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
even in this episode they had a bloody good time getting pissed and watching the footy
― Number None, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
He thought he was supposed to be proper British dude since he met the guy in the guise of being proper British people with his wife and the dude's wife! I think he's not good at navigating the different spheres.
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
I thought it was pretty obvious it was because Jaguar Guy's wife took it to Lane's wife. Be seen to do something, rather than necessarily do something.
― Aunt Acid and the Gaviscons (aldo), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
"chewing gum on his pubis"
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
lane knows how to partyhttp://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzd5njWk3h1qkpccwo1_500.gif
― mizzell, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
best lane line - “I’ve heard men talk with dark permanence of those years.”
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
his astute britishisms kill me
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
Difference I think is that Lane partied with Don and at the playboy club on his own time, but I think he sees taking a client to a brothel as beyond the pale.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think anyone needs a reason to want to kiss Joan.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
like i said upthread, they'd hinted at it (Lane wanny smoochy Joan) before - but what i think put him over the top was the adrenaline rush of getting into a fight (and winning).
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
so who was Lane with at the pub watching the World Cup? his wife who he's semi-separated from? (or not separated from?) I feel like I forgot a plot turn somewhere, I thought she moved back to London.
― dmr, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
Dad beats Lane/tells him to get his affairs in order --> Lane brought his family over from England
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
at the pub Lane was with his wife and Mr. and Mrs. Jaguar
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, Lane wanted to go to the park and thought hanging with other expats was dweeby, but then really got into the footy and tried to parlay it into a business deal.
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
dunno how much of Lane's behavior at the pub was genuine tbh
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i thought it was pretty clear that he was putting on the expected show
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
laughed a lot at this episode. made me remember why i like this show.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
Lane's Playboy exploits were while the wife was back in blighty.
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
the show is flirting with total farce this season, though getting away with it so far. i know there have been silly moments before but lane fighting pete was into utter ridicule.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
damn i forgot about lane's dad pwning him
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's safe to say Lane is probably the partner most intimately acquainted with physical violence
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
well a couple of them actually fought in various wars
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
and then there's Don/Dick's childhood.
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
He was drunk and England had just won the World Cup, that was enough to shake him out of usual grouchy reservedness around his wife's friends.
Pretty much everything Laine did felt pitch-perfect for the character for me. Whatever he did with Don last season it was on their own time and didn't lose the agency a massive car account in the process.
(xpost - come on it's clearly Roger who's been in the most actual physical fights)
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
Roger talks a lot but I suspect it's all talk. (see: mugging)
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
dude is a playboy through and through
it's clear he got treated like shit, I don't recall any physical abuse tho.
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
Duck vs. Don Draper was a fun fight
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
and Don is quite clearly not a fighter - drunk Duck whooped his ass.
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
do u remember when don got blown up in korea
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
p sure that's an intimate acquaintance with violence!
yeah but w getting blown up tho
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
not punching a dude
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
;)
N. Korea punched him in the face iirc
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
but yeah I propose that avoiding getting hit by artillery and knocking a man on the ground with your fists are entirely different skills
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno if anybody else agrees but I was getting the impression they were doing some heavy foreshadowing with Pete heading toward some kind of breakdown: the Whitman references, being asked to bring his gun to the house (reminding us that he has it for the second or maybe third time this season), being belittled and humilated repeatedly ... I have a habit of reading too much into TV shows, but this seemed like the writers are setting up 'this guy will snap violently'. He seems incapable of enjoying what he does have, and is desperate for some kind of approval and acceptance which he sees others having but not him.
Is there anybody specific Cosgrove is meant to be? Or just as 'author who started out in advertising' a la Pynchon/DeLillo/Heller?
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
it's clear he got treated like shit, I don't recall any physical abuse tho
he's mentioning that his father used to beat the crap out of him.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
pretty confident the writers aren't trying to draw any specific parallels with any of the characters (otoh I had no idea Pynchon, DeLillo, and Heller all started in advertising). I did wonder if his nom de plume was ever actually used but it doesn't look like it.
The Whitman/gun/frustrated Pete stuff def felt like foreshadowing to me but who knows.
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
ah right - that came up in reference to Sally, or something, I think? forgot about that.
could be foreshadowing something for two seasons from now tbh
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
pynchon didn't work in advertising. he was a technical writer for boeing.
― s.clover, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
think u mean yoyodyne
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
can we stop misspelling Lane's name now plz
― mh, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, seeing a lot of "laine" and even some "layne"
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall)
That and Joan tenderly brushing the hair from his face. Totally believable. I have platonic female friends who I occasionally have the urge to kiss.
A very funny episode. I would be all up for MM becoming a knockabout comedy with a deathmatch between two of the cast at the climax of each episode. They could do a spin-off Tekken-style Mad Men beat em up.
Also, in the previous ep I was kind of hoping that Don's fever dream would turn out to be real, and the rest of the season would revolve around him covering up a murder.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
me too (re: don's dream)
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Tuesday, 17 April 2012 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
yes me too.
― jed_, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
WOW. incredible episode!
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
"england won the world cup!""cup of what?"
i love how lane just cannot maneuver around jaguar guy's conversation. "i was in the war, it was awful." "i'm so sorry.." "no, those were the best years of my life, really." i think the jaguar guy was just fucking with them.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
is it just me or have they just not established well why megan would have fallen for don? i mean i get in principle--he's handsome, brashly confident, sexy, successful--but i guess the actors don't have convincing chemistry?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
dark permanence thing really made me laugh
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
why does everybody need to be convinced so hard? is it because it is television? people don't act convincingly in real life.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:10 (eleven years ago) link
people act erratically and without apparent motive all the time imo.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
why does everybody need to be convinced so hard?
? have you not heard of the notion of two actors having chemistry?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno if it's the episodes themselves or just my particular view of it right now, but i feel like we're seeing some of the limitations of jon hamm the actor, or at least the conception of the don draper character by hamm and weiner et al. hamm almost has his speech patterns, gestures, tone of voice, etc. down too well.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
kartheiser is really the standout in this show -- it's not really a believable character in terms of verisimilitude of gesture, voice, etc. but it's a really interesting and absorbing creation just the same. especially true in this last episode.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:17 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I was reacting also to the "not convinced by Lane kissing Joan" and whatnot. Like if ever there was anything that portrayed people just doing stuff and stuff happening to them I think it's mad men. Episodes have themes, characters have arcs, but for the entire series, characters have done things for reasons we (at least I) can't fathom. I think it's neat.
I guess I've heard of actors having chemistry but I guess now that I think about it it's never something I've tried to observe critically or w/e. I think about the writing on this show a lot more than the acting.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 01:25 (eleven years ago) link
Now you've made me try to think of when I last actually NOTICED chemistry between romantic leads, and I think it was that Adjustment Bureau film with Slattery in it, between Matt Damon and Emily Blunt.
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 03:55 (eleven years ago) link
i think chemistry is something we're more likely to consciously perceive in absence than in presence. when the story, behavior and dialogue seem to suggest that to characters are "passionate" about one another, but the performances don't convey this adequately, we notice the discontinuity. i don't notice any great chemistry between pare and hamm, but nor am i troubled by its absence. they do okay together, imo.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
[kartheiser's pete is] not really a believable character in terms of verisimilitude of gesture, voice, etc. but it's a really interesting and absorbing creation just the same.
otm. was saying something similar upthread. i never believe that pete is an actual human being or that he would excel in his corporate role, but he's a lot of fun to watch (and hate).
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 04:31 (eleven years ago) link
re: chemistry - it's important to remember that Don's ideal partner was set up as the psychologist woman and they would have been perfect and it felt like a huge letdown on Don's part to suddenly decide that he wanted to marry Megan. Like he was regressing to this simple, and totally hot, secretary. All credit to Pare this season for making Megan seem more than just a trophy who got promoted at work due to marrying the boss.
on top of that you have Don acting totally monogamous and - shockingly- pretty together, which i think we all assume is just a ruse.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 05:10 (eleven years ago) link
I think that even with Megan being a modern girl in 1966 she probably wouldn't feel in too much of a position to be rejecting the proposal of this guy she likes a lot even if he's maybe not her absolute DREAM GUY? And on Don's side, he's in the classic position of being in a relationship with someone because they're Good For You, and she evidently is in many ways, but that makes it a p fragile partnership from his side of things.
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 05:16 (eleven years ago) link
English people in Mad Men always make me cringe a bit, Lane excepted. Did we really use to talk like that in the 60s?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 08:22 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno all cues in the script point to megan and don being very attracted to one another -- they can't keep their hands off each other etc. and frankly that doesn't come off convincingly in the performances. probably for reasons that are complex and can't be helped. i think some of you folks are overanalyzing it.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 10:43 (eleven years ago) link
it's important to remember that Don's ideal partner was set up as the psychologist woman and they would have been perfect and it felt like a huge letdown on Don's part to suddenly decide that he wanted to marry Megan. Like he was regressing to this simple, and totally hot, secretary.
I always assumed that the reason Don didn't end up with Faye is in large part because Faye was so terrible with children, which is pretty important for him, since he has no idea what to do with them).
― silverfish, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 12:23 (eleven years ago) link
"i never believe that pete is an actual human being or that he would excel in his corporate role, but he's a lot of fun to watch (and hate)."
This is so weird, because does Pete seem like a very slightly exaggerated version of people I have met and whom I have seen excel despite being largely despised by everyone around/under them.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 12:27 (eleven years ago) link
Megan seems to make an awful lot of social faux-paus. Dropping that Don was divorced at the Heinz meeting, loudly exclaiming Cynthia's name at the dinner party, embarassing Don at his surprise party...
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
hands up if you couldn't remember kenneth's wife name either
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
(it's not usually my habit to read recaps/re-watch eps of long-form dramas so i don't really remember tiny details of this show the way y'all have tho)
They should've asked Pete, who should've confessed he didn't know either. I should definitely be a Mad Men script consultant.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
I actually not sure she'd even been named in the show up until that point.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
^^^ yeah I don't think she'd even been on-screen...? maybe at the last Xmas party?
they should've asked TRUDY
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
she's been on screen a number of times, ken was out to dinner with her and her parents, at don's party. pretty sure ken mentioned her name in the office.
― mizzell, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
Cynthia Cosgrove (Larisa Oleynik) (née Baxter) is Ken Cosgrove's wife, the daughter of Ed (Ray Wise), who is the CEO of Corning. Cynthia is a New York society girl, who appears to have moved in the same Manhattan social circles as the presumably older Trudy Campbell. In season four, Cosgrove refuses to use Ed's connections to get new clients for Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, claiming that he doesn't want to be like Pete Campbell. He calls Cynthia "his life" and unlike Pete Campbell, does not want to use her or his future father-in-law to get business. In the fifth season premiere, her character is listed during the credits as Cynthia Cosgrove, implying that they were married between the fourth and fifth seasons.
― mizzell, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
ah right Ray Wise!!!
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
too bad u can't rss subscribe to that fashion blog's mad men posts w/out getting everything along with them
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 April 2012 02:37 (eleven years ago) link
some of yall really pull out the magnifying glass on this show huh
good episode
― man down (D-40), Friday, 20 April 2012 08:05 (eleven years ago) link
oh no roger
this will not end well
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 23 April 2012 02:24 (eleven years ago) link
the time is totally out of order, this is great
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 23 April 2012 02:38 (eleven years ago) link
roger trippin ballsdon and Megan bein assy to each othereveryone is so miserable, this is gorgeous
― arsenio and old ma$e (m bison), Monday, 23 April 2012 02:44 (eleven years ago) link
This whole episode feels pretty gimmicky to me so far. Maybe I just don't want to watch a show about the 60s...
― s.clover, Monday, 23 April 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
Megan acting out was pretty good though.
― s.clover, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
Amazing episode. I feel like they fit three hours of Mad Men into one hour.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
Roger tripping was done way better than I expected.
― LaMonte, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
i liked how about 1/3 of the way through you realize the episode isn't in linear time
don/megan drama is getting ridiculous
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 23 April 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
they have a real weird relationship
― call all destroyer, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
Megan is the adult in the room at almost all times, for sure.
Also, and I'm sure it was intentional, there were some shots of Jane in this episode that made her one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:10 (eleven years ago) link
I think I'm gonna rewatch this after work tomorrow. There's no way my brain could process all that was happening.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:16 (eleven years ago) link
Awesome episode. They've definitely gotten considerably ballsier in terms of style and pace this season IMO.
― Simon H., Monday, 23 April 2012 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
i lol'd so hard @ rogers "its going to be a beautiful day"
― johnny crunch, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:32 (eleven years ago) link
Haven't watched this yet; did they play "White Rabbit"?
― Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 23 April 2012 03:45 (eleven years ago) link
"I Just Wasn't Made For this World" :)
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 23 April 2012 03:48 (eleven years ago) link
white rabbit is from '67 so no
― call all destroyer, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:49 (eleven years ago) link
that's not the title of the song xp
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 23 April 2012 03:51 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyhU2mVyFAk
― s.clover, Monday, 23 April 2012 03:56 (eleven years ago) link
Oh.. These Times, maybe? The Beach Boys. Sorry!
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 23 April 2012 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
What a weird episode! Also my uh…version had 10 minutes of a Lifetime show spliced in. Which was extra confusing.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 23 April 2012 04:10 (eleven years ago) link
Mad Men isn't on lifetime? What have I been watching? Oh my..
― s.clover, Monday, 23 April 2012 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
So far this is my favorite episode.
― *tera, Monday, 23 April 2012 05:22 (eleven years ago) link
lol that happened to me too...took a second to realize it wasn't a shot of young sally
― High powered Texas lawyer (symsymsym), Monday, 23 April 2012 05:29 (eleven years ago) link
"there were some shots of Jane in this episode that made her one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen."
no kidding; she also talked and had a lot more personality in this episode than I ever remember seeing. the shots of her on the bed at the end were stunning.
i really like megan.
― akm, Monday, 23 April 2012 06:01 (eleven years ago) link
great episode, though i thought the 3-way bad relationship parallelism was maybe a little forced? roger tripping was classic though, and i loved the hojos detour. such a weird and great design scheme. don is a flaming fucking asshole btw.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 06:09 (eleven years ago) link
This is definitely the best episode of the season; likely top five for the series.A/B/C plots all excellent.About time; I was getting less and less engaged and a show like this was just what I needed to remind me why I watch Mad Men.
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 06:10 (eleven years ago) link
I thought the opposite of Jane. Sort of. While she will always be beautiful I thought she was more serious than she had been in other episodes and sad. I thought she was a very good actress to look less attractive not because she is but because of hat she was emoting: sadness, confusion. I remember thinking she was so gorgeous when she first appeared as the hot secretary. This episode had her looking slightly vintage Star Trek vixenish but jaded and that eclipsed everything, for me at least.
― *tera, Monday, 23 April 2012 06:11 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry: *what not "hat" she was emoting....
― *tera, Monday, 23 April 2012 06:12 (eleven years ago) link
Wonder if they are just really going to do away with her so quickly or the exact opposite and show her more now that she and Roger are quits.
― *tera, Monday, 23 April 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
it's weird to see don crying again
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 23 April 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
i liked this episode a lot. no pete, but i'm sure that will be rectified soon.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 23 April 2012 06:49 (eleven years ago) link
― raw feel vegan (silby)
Ha, mine too.
Roger on acid should've been funnier IMO.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 23 April 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
I thought that was the right amount of funny. My favorite part was when he responded to the professor but his lips weren't moving.
― dan selzer, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
amazing episode. up there with the best of the series imo.
the trip scene started out a little corny (orchestra playing out of the vodka bottle) but as it went on it was pretty well done I thought. the end of it where they got really deep into their relationship while they were coming down felt real.
― dmr, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
Speaking of that, didn't Timothy Leary already look a little bit more "counterculture" by 1966?
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
wasn't really buying Peggy giving some random guy a handjob in a movie theater just because she made a bad pitch
― dmr, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
She'd had a fight with her bf, lost it at her pitch, decided to play hooky, smoked some random guy's joint, and maybe just felt like being bad. Peggy is all about behaving out of character when no one expects.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
amazing episode. the handjob, the acid, the sorbet, the non-linear plot = LOVE
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
Handjob Peggy (comes with everything you see here) was less to me about her feeling bad and more to me about her wanting to be desired and in control of the situation.
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
― Johnny Fever,
So that was actually supposed to be Leary?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
Someone either called him Leary or my closed captioning (I had the dishwasher running.. too noisy) ID'd him as such.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
Roger said at one point "Well, Dr. Leary, I for one find your product boring" but I thought he was speaking in the abstract, not literally addressing the prof
― dmr, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
Roger namechecks Leary as "Thanks Mr. Leary but I find your product to be lacking" but I really think he was just being urbane and facetious. That was DEFINITELY not Leary they were tripping with.
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
i'm xposting like crazy today
A note:
(By the by, the host was not supposed to be LSD pioneer Dr. Timothy Leary, despite Roger's joke; his character's name is credited as Sandy Orcutt, which is an anagram for "Candy Tutors," whatever that means.)
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
Oh okay that makes more sense. xp
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
otm, i saw it as her wanting to show dominance SOMEHOW, since it had been denied her during the pitch meeting.
― supreme sundae (reddening), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
Oops! I was cleaning & watching so I didn't get Roger's Leary joke :(
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
otm, i saw it as her wanting to show dominance
yeah this is how I read it. lion imagery kinda the giveaway here.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
i lolled at blunted Peggy's born free trip
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
nobody's mentioned this yet but Ginberg's Holocaust-orphan story was o_0
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
monologue rather
Yeah wasn't sure what to take from that
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, it was. In a normal week, that probably would've been the standout moment, but this week I'd forgotten about it already.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
Also why do people no longer give handjobs to strangers in movie theaters?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
I was wondering how historically accurate this was -- I was under the impression that babies born in the camps were mostly killed at birth.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
A few probably got through for various reasons.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
the impact of ginsberg's story was deadened a bit because I was half-convinced peggy was dreaming during it. she was high and doing crazy shit, she fell asleep and woke up to don's enigmatic phone call, ginsberg talks about being a martian in a scene shot entirely in reflection...I was too incredulous to believe it was really happening until the nonlinear structure of the episode became apparent.
― supreme sundae (reddening), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:03 (eleven years ago) link
yeah and the way the monologue shifted from jokey sarcasm to earnest confessional was almost imperceptible, really well done
think this is probably true - or a late arriving prisoner was pregnant and didn't deliver til after the camps were liberated or something...? I can think of a few scenarios where this would have happened. but I guess it remains to be seen how true this backstory is.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
here's an example
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.aish.com/ho/p/48952026.html
On Dec. 21 Bein felt labour pains. She climbed to the top bunk in her barrack, and there, aided by two other inmates, gave birth in secret to a baby girl. The infant was tiny, weighing only one kilogram; she was too weak to cry but strong enough to drink the meagre offering from her mother's breast, and somehow survived the next few weeks in hiding.
The only other infant survivor, according to Auschwitz museum records, was a Hungarian boy, Gyorgy Faludi, born the day of liberation with the help of a Russian doctor. Soviet Red Army troops liberated the camp on Jan. 27, 1945. Baby and mother were among the survivors, and they were an unusual sight -- indeed, almost unique.
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
Ginsberg didn't specify which camp he was born at did he...?
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
not at all, just providing another story
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
WOW. Fucking AWESOME episode.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
Also, bravo on the LSD scenes. I hate hate hate when shows do drug scenes, they are always full of bad show-offy lousy visual effects and this was just so perfect, like that bit with the cigarette.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
you knew someone was gonna take acid at some point (Peggy? Sally?) and there were a million things that could have gone wrong with it but they REALLY delivered with Roger
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
sound editing was bonkers - the cross-mixing of Pet Sounds with Mel Torme (I think it was?), the baseball stuff, the split-conversations
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I think it was a good choice to convey the trip mostly w/ sound instead of visuals
megan was great in the scene w. the orange sherbet
― dmr, Monday, 23 April 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
ginsburg may have been lying as well, who knows.
― akm, Monday, 23 April 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
AV Club also seems confused on the Leary tip, but I really don't understand how anyone can not think it's just a joke. Like if you were at Kentucky Fried Chicken and you were all "This chicken leaves something to be desired, Col. Sanders" it doesn't mean you are having lunch with Col. Sanders. Jeez.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
that dude didn't look anything like Leary. And this is what, summer of '66? Leary was already pretty big by that point - being targeted by the feds, conducting televised debates etc. I don't think he was doing NY dinner parties.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
It always surprised me how people will take a sarcastic comment in a fictional work as literal, but they would never take it that way if someone said it in real life.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
well real life provides more context, no?
but yeah you'd have to be a bit tone deaf to miss roger's joke.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
loved Roger's note btw
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
PLEASE HELP ME
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
loved the cigarette - i have literally had that happen in, er... similar circumstances.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 23 April 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
i can't remember what happened with the cigarette
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
He smoked the whole thing down with his first drag.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
to the sound of an accordion squeeze
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
heh. i'm sure a gif will be along any minute now.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah that was otm and awesome.
I'm mainly glad it was suddenly all fish-eye lenses and extreme close-ups and trailing effects. It still is a bit stylized but it's all maintained in the Mad Men world and I love the fun Roger seems to be having with it.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
it was wasn't
there was a lot in the episode that was really stylized. the Don & Megan driving scenes (and especially the later scene of Don driving alone) had this saturated cartoony look on the scenery going by.
― dmr, Monday, 23 April 2012 21:38 (eleven years ago) link
kind of "fake looking" but in a really specific sixties-movie way
yeah, when megan rolled down the window, i thought, "why bother? your car isn't moving."
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
my wife said she was hoping Megan was going to fall out of the car o_0
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
that's odd. why she hate a megan?
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
I find her to be a frustrating character tbh
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
I kinda hate her too tbh
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
i felt for her in this ep. like when she was trying to order pie and don was all "WE'LL HAVE ORANGE SHERBET." don's so used to "ordering for" a woman; god forbid she should want something for herself.
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
weird. what's the objection? dullness? she seems nice enough.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
that was to xps
and yeah, don was being a complete ass, all through this episode. bossing her around, ignoring or ridiculing her feelings, abandoning her cuz she wouldn't get with his program, kicking in the door, physically assaulting her.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno I have a kneejerk resentment against anybody who gets everything they want because of how they look. especially when I find it actively unpleasant to look at her lol
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
She's stuck between modern woman and cardboard cutout. Character was never properly developed as far as i can see.
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
like, she's just a dimbulb who married her boss. I agree that Don treated her like shit in this episode and her reactions were very humanizing (and funny, eg the sherbet) but yeah I just don't like her.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think she's that dim of a bulb. My biggest gripe was wondering how she was dealing with the obvious preferential treatment at work, so I'm glad it was addressed that she feels like it's not taken seriously by Don and presumably other people. Her reaction to Harry's salacious remarks in the first ep was pretty great.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe if you want autonomy don't marry your boss?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
she hasn't been shown doing anything particularly remarkable work-wise, and she's been pretty dumb re: social situations as I noted upthread. jury's out imho. I don't think Don married her for intellect.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno how much she knows about the dark details of don's past (I suspect lots?) but if she does know enough, that "mother" crack was really really horribly vicious.
― s.clover, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
seemed pretty clear she knew she'd gone over the line there
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
one more instance of her saying the wrong thing at the wrong time
I really like Megan and think she adds tons to the dynamic of the show. You guys are nuts.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
Agreed, this criticism seems completely wackadoo.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
eh, vicious sure, but 100% justified imo. again, don was being a complete prick, deserved whatever she could (verbally) dish out.
and i don't know why anyone would think megan has to justify herself in the first place. so, she's pretty. not her fault, and don skates on his looks as much as anyone. so, she married the boss. no more her fault than his, people fall in love at work all the time. i think she seems like a pretty decent person, overall. not perfect, perhaps a bit naive, but not distinctly stupid or frequently cruel. she seems to take a lot more abuse than she dishes out.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
She's definitely naive, and thrown to some extent by the cynicism of her co-workers. Partly this comes from the end of that Honeymoon period, where its all fresh and new and now Don is falling back into his self-expected role as Man. Don is a total jerk, but he doesn't realise it half the time, because he doesn't consider her as much as he obviously should.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
I liked that it was BERT of all people who called him out (for slipping at work, natch).
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:32 (eleven years ago) link
yeah Cooper was great in this episode
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:32 (eleven years ago) link
they probably just wanted to remind us that he was still in the game (he kind of MADE the game, no?) despite spending lots of time reading the newspaper in the waiting room.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
i sort of suspect that at some point there'll be a season premiere where bert's portrait is hanging on the wall of that waiting room and we'll be like o_O.
was also glad that this episode didn't end with someone successfully selling beans
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
looking forward to Ginsberg's Nazi-themed Heinz campaign tho
i feel like the beans thing will never happen.
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
but if it does, they should get the human beinz to do the music.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Human_Beinz
or these guys:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujgM8elOeZE
― Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PEGGY-HJ.gif
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:27 (eleven years ago) link
oh dear
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
thank you, no
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2yd8m19ZU1qgj9zpo1_400.gif
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't realize Peggy was, er, a southpaw.
― Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 00:00 (eleven years ago) link
there we go!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 02:37 (eleven years ago) link
Cooper on money -> Cooper cracking the whip for Don
I can understand the distaste for the Don/Megan relationship but that conflict model makes some sense to me, given the dynamic in some relationships. The stupid chase around the apartment strikes true, and really, the part where Megan said something to the effect of "every time we fight it diminishes us" or whatever? I can think of a few moments in my life where that would have given me a new appreciation for what I misunderstood.
Roger is the zen master, btw
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
It made me remember how much of the character of Roger Sterling is about age and confidence, and how much that's been worn down in recent episodes. Hopefully this marks either a return to form or maybe the revitalizing he didn't get by marrying young.
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
if roger doesn't have a new lease of life that involves him dressing like wavy gravy then i will be VERY VERY DISAPPOINTED.
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:09 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:10 (eleven years ago) link
man that is like my personal beef that half of people who self-categorize as 'stoners' think that they have to be all into tie-dye and jam bands and shit
it's a fine drug you don't have to fuck it up by becoming a stereotype
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:13 (eleven years ago) link
I don't get why Megan didn't s assert herself more before leaving the office instead of festering until the sherbert scene. Then the running around the apartment reminded me of a little girl, much how Betty would become with Don. It all makes for drama and a story but in real life, if she were my friend and told me what happened, I'd ask her why she even left town when she didn't want too.
― *tera, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
I suspect it's more difficult when the guy asking you to leave is also your boss. And it's 45 years ago.
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:36 (eleven years ago) link
and when he's some charismatic yet self-centered bulldozer of a person who pays no attention to anyone's wishes but his own
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:43 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, I think she said something about not having a chance to discuss it since it was just dropped right in front of her in the office? She's not such a modern woman to feel that casually undermining her husband+boss would be acceptable.
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:58 (eleven years ago) link
Or she's into festering, some people do that
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 04:06 (eleven years ago) link
Why does Don love Howard Johnson's so much? He's so weirdly gleeful at the whole idea of it.
― Dan I., Tuesday, 24 April 2012 04:43 (eleven years ago) link
oh, Slate (aka Mad Men Blog) already did that: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/04/23/howard_johnson_s_on_mad_men_why_the_chain_was_cool_in_the_1960s.html
― Dan I., Tuesday, 24 April 2012 04:45 (eleven years ago) link
like, she's just a dimbulb who married her boss
These criticisms are really harsh on Megan's character by the way. Actually she isn't just the airhead secretary, she wants to be Peggy really (although it's a moot point whether she's that good at her job). But I think a lot of the other characters view her as just the dimbulb who married her boss.
I suppose most of the Don/Megan tension is down to the fact that Megan isn't the person Don thought he was marrying (hot secretary, perfect with children, young and fun and open to just running off irresonsibly). Probably because they only knew each other five minutes before getting engaged. Maybe in some way Don's still trying to do the things that would make Betty happy and gets confused when Megan doesn't respond and/or feels like she's being treated like a child.
That said, her bringing Don's mother into it was a dick move, but then so was driving off and leaving her.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 12:25 (eleven years ago) link
I suppose part of the problem with Megan's character so far is that they haven't really given her an internal monologue or fleshed her character out like they did with Betty very early on. That's not to say they won't.
The last couple of episodes have been awesome by the way. So happy it was Roger they gave the acid trip to and not Peggy or Don, the visuals in that scene were terrific.
Totally want more Ginsberg stuff now, really intriguing character.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 12:29 (eleven years ago) link
Do you think they're leading towards a Peggy/Ginsberg hookup, or is that too obvious?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 12:36 (eleven years ago) link
imo yes
― arsenio and old ma$e (m bison), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 12:40 (eleven years ago) link
to them hooking up and it being obv
I kind of felt like Roger dropping his sarcastic, practiced exterior and just being really honest and kind seemed like it knocked years off his life, too. It may have just been the fact he wasn't in a suit, but it felt like the lines dropped off his face and the ridiculous laughter under the influence was more genuine happiness than we've seen from him forever.
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
Megan’s comment about Don’s mom was pretty low and not “100% justified” imo. Pretty few circumstances where I think a comment like that would be justified. I felt somewhat sympathetic for him (up until the ditching in the parking lot obv.) if only because I don’t think he was intentionally trying to be a dick, but (as mentioned above) he was treating her “well” in a way he was just accustomed to doing, particularly with Betty. Megan understandably resented being treated like a child and had every right to lash out, but Don’s intentions were at least good. I mean dude was just SUPER excited about treating her to the Howard Johnson experience and my opinion might be skewed because I found that endearing, but it seemed more of a cluelessly insensitive thing than straight asshole thing.
― circa1916, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
I felt like she blurted it out and only half knew what she was saying, until it was out and they were both like "oh shit, Don's mom?!?"
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 14:55 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I sort of feel like bringing up the dead is a nuclear option and esp. since Don has no family and Megan's like one of the two or three people alive that truly know who he is.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
don was being an arsehole, as usual really, but no matter what circumstances lead you to make a joke about your spouse's mother who died during childbirth it's never going to be justified.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
I need to re-watch I don't remember Don being an arsehole so much as Megan acting like a 14-year-old.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:02 (eleven years ago) link
See, that's the thing! They were both being horrible in pretty archetypical couple ways, and it's really easy to see either side as being not really that off base until you notice that they're hitting each others' triggers all over the place while not acknowledging it.
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
There may be an element of Megan still being pissed off at throwing Don a surprise party and have him throw it back in her face and be a dick about the whole thing.
Basically they are both terrible at doing nice things for one another.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
I don’t think he was intentionally trying to be a dick, but (as mentioned above) he was treating her “well” in a way he was just accustomed to doing, particularly with Betty. Megan understandably resented being treated like a child and had every right to lash out, but Don’s intentions were at least good.
I think this nails it. Don only knows how to do things one way, it seems, and Megan lets her displeasure build instead of letting him know her feelings up front. So, while Don was doing things the wrong way this whole trip, he didn't become a dick until he left her behind at the Howard Johnson's. Megan wasn't being bratty at all. She was playing Betty's role until she could no longer take it, then she snapped and said the thing about Don's mother. Both parties are at fault, it was a bad day.
I'm most bothered by how they came into work together the next day, obviously moments after the chase around the apartment, smiling.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
i loled at Dawn: How was your trip?Don: Great!
― mizzell, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
Megan wants a partnership, Don wants a young trophy wife. That seems reductive, but it really is how all this is playing out.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think Don wants a young trophy wife at all. I beleive he had a lot of genuine emotion for her that led to him proposing, but he's so damaged he doesn't know how to express it or how to be in a partnership. he's showing signs of changing, imo, and while not fucking whores is a small step, it is a step. plus he looked to be genuinely remorseful at not being able to find her, but he couldn't show that to her, so he chased her around the apartment first.
― mizzell, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
I think Don THINKS he wants a partnership, but any time he's confronted with the actual partner aspect of it, he sulks or acts out.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
right, cause he's really damaged and has had very few healthy relationships
― mizzell, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah that's a bit reductive - Betty was the young trophy wife. I think Don also thinks of her as old-world and stuffy (look at her husband and where she's living) whereas he imagines Megan as closer to the double life he's been living all this time hanging out with cool art students and teenagers and disappearing to California and everything. I think he's pretty reliant on her at this point and has a lot of emotion invested in it even though it's patently going to be a disaster.
Also, she's not terrible around the children, which probably helps.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
The only time we've seen her with the kids this season everything seemed a bit awkward. Surely they felt more comfortable with her as a temporary nanny than as a stepmother.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
that would be true for anyone, though. awkwardness pretty much unavoidable when it comes to stepchildren/ parents.
― mizzell, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
looking forward to Sally's "your not my REAL mom!" moment
Ginsberg + Peggy hooking up is too obvious. It won't happen.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
Ginsberg Sr.'s comment about being the original was so cheesy and seeing Peggy do that little stoned giggle was great
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
what was he talking about with "building his case"?
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
foreshadowing I guess
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
that's some old-school don-and-betty shit -- no matter what kind of shit you've been up to, you show up to the business function smiling and looking flawless.
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
besides, it's in don and megan's best interest not to give the office any grist for the "trouble in paradise" gossip mill.
actual location used for the hojo exteriors:
http://www.highwayhost.org/California/LosAngeles/BaldwinPark/baldwinpark1.html
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
interiors here:
http://dinerwood.blogspot.com/2010/02/rods-grill-back-off-arcadia-were.html
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
Does anyone foresee, what with the ominous turning of hippie tides and ambient violence, Megan dying under mysterious circumstances and Don, as the primary suspect, breaking under scrutiny and being fully exposed? Just a feeling... I also think that Pete's gun is a total MacGuffin.
― viacom dios, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
I think that's just you.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
um yeah
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
it's a fool's game to try and predict this show afaic
Has anyone checked on Harry lately? I fear he may be locked in Pete's old office with no way out.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
Somebody's got to die, though, right? And who more fitting than the guileless positivist drowning amid the rotten cynics? Again, no idea. I just feel the show ramping up to something on that scale. Last 2 eps have been among the series' best.
― viacom dios, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
Ginsberg's dad's gonna out a main character as a Nazi war criminal.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
Isn't it a foregone conclusion that Joan's husband is going to die in Vietnam? (obv not a major character, but still)
― Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
why does anyone have to die?
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
everyone dies eventually
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
the orange sherbet is a chekhov's gun!!
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
confounding expectations is a point of pride for Wiener, I think it's safe to say that if something is "obvious" then that's a sign of misdirection
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
After Mrs. Blankenship's death, any other death on the show would be a letdown.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
No one has to die but it's tv, they do. And the show's pretty death obsessed at the moment.
― viacom dios, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
age-wise, aren't Cooper and his sister probably oldest?
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
I hope this show never goes in this direction. The trip out to the HoJo and then her disappearing gave me horrible reminders of that Six Feet Under storyline.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
they should just kill off bobby draper so they won't have to keep re-casting him.
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
i couldn't even remember bobby's name there for a minute, that's how inessential a character he is.
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
Love the idea of offing Bobby. Always wished they'd done so to Baby Grace on Friday Night Lights.
― viacom dios, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
only if Landry did it
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
Mad Men: SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DIE
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
No-Botty Got Ta Know That I Killed Yo Ass in the Ho...Jo
― viacom dios, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
i think don violently chasing megan down in the summary encapsulates how he feels and how he chooses to act on those feelings. he's deeply invested in megan and desperately wants to make their relationship work -- compare his turning around the car and spending all day worrying about her to how he treated betty, who he'd remorselessly blow off at the drop of an emotional hat -- but he's emotionally immature and has no tact.
― phantompenguin, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
oops. scratch "in the summary."
This show is the best it's ever been imho
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
Holy shit @ so much of that episode but Ginsburg in particular, goddamn that was good. "Are there others like you?"
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
Also can I just say it find it weird how much of this thread is dedicated to these super moralizing posts about how awful character [x] is
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
solitary posts etc
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
eh my loathing of Megan is more an aesthetic judgment than a moral one fwiw. those teeth! ugh
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
i totally fell for Megan when she made the comment about her teeth last season
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
looks-wise, mind. I've liked her character this season though.
I'm not even
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
anyone know if the two-part premiere counted as two of the 13 episodes, btw?
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
Lolled at the line that was like "it's always smooth sailing with LSD!
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
cool. cheers.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/pressplay/video-how-to-make-those-next-on-mad-men-preview-clips-less-useless
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
you guys are savages
― mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
interesting jewish-theme triptych w/ peggy's boyfriend making the 'bracha' crack, jane sterling speaking yiddish while under influence of LSD and ginsburg telling peggy about the holocaust. weiner kinda much much better writing at more secular jewish figures than ppl like ginsburg and his father.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:52 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sometimes i think so, other times i wish it would be more about, you know, advertising. am i wrong in imagining that the first season devoted more "A" plotlines to actual stuff related to the business?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:07 (eleven years ago) link
Isn't it a foregone conclusion that Joan's husband is going to die in Vietnam? (obv not a major character, but still) --Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)
Why would anyone care if he did?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:08 (eleven years ago) link
obv not anymore
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:09 (eleven years ago) link
interesting jewish-theme triptych w/ peggy's boyfriend making the 'bracha' crack, jane sterling speaking yiddish while under influence of LSD and ginsburg telling peggy about the holocaust. weiner kinda much much better writing at more secular jewish figures than ppl like ginsburg and his father.― Mordy, Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:50 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy, Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:50 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
on that note, i saw three movies from three different countries/decades this weekend in which a character using the word "meshuggah" was the tip-off that they were jewish.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:09 (eleven years ago) link
xp ya, he can die in vietnam all he wants, no one on the show is going to mention it.
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
xp part of it makes me wonder if the writers are trying to indicate that being jewish in NY was becoming easier. unlike first season where you have to be a wealthy department store heiress to be overtly jewish. a kind of 'they've been here all along' type of reveal. i haven't been following it so closely but friends who close-read the show for jewishness tell me that they've suspected that jane was assimilated for a long time (i guess her maiden name was a giveaway) but only got confirmation tnite. i do agree that the 'bracha' line was basically as superficial as such a thing could be. speaking yiddish under LSD was interesting to me bc jane is part of whole generation of american jews whose parents spoke yiddish but who only got bits and pieces of it. i don't know if she speaks fluent yiddish and has just totally repressed it in her new community, but i suspect she only knows idiomatic yiddish and maybe has some dormant unconscious memories of hearing her father speak. ginsburg thing is - like shakey mentioned - possibly true (being born in concentration camps possible but exceedingly rare - by contrast i know at least ppl who were born in DP camps). kinda hamfisted and weirdly overly dramatic, just like when his father blessed him. the whole character feels so tone deaf in some ways and then really great in others (like when he's working).
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:17 (eleven years ago) link
line breaks dude!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:18 (eleven years ago) link
also i don't think there was any major shift in terms of "how easy is it to be jewish in NYC" in the mid 1960s.
ginsburg seems like a particularly jew-y jew.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:19 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe it's less about NYC and more that very specific Madison Ave world. In the first season they mentioned that they have "one of them" or were bringing in Jewish sandwich boys or whatever into meetings. Which seems pretty strange because of the whole Edward Bernays thing, but whatdoiknow.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:20 (eleven years ago) link
but ginsburg isn't anything like a jew-y jew! he's kinda like how you might make up a jew-y jew if you didn't have any exposure to one
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:22 (eleven years ago) link
?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:23 (eleven years ago) link
he has a strong NYC jew accent, his dad even more so and uses lots of yiddish, etc.
they should have hired a consultant who had met a jew i guess
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:26 (eleven years ago) link
um, the show runner is jewish y'all
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:26 (eleven years ago) link
my nutty theory: that the 3 characters represent 3 different ways that jewish community is interacting with upper crust wasp community. jane has totally assimilated into wasp community. her jewishness only comes out under influence of LSD. you could barely know she was jewish. peggy's boyfriend lies entirely outside this community. peggy kinda goes out to him. he comes to parties but makes no efforts to belong. and then ginsburg, despite in some ways being the jewy jew, is kinda this meeting place where he is trying to fit the two together.
re ginsburg, i just wish there was more insight into his character i guess? he has a lot of noise going on - yiddish idiom, accents, blessings, holocaust - but doesn't really seem to be a very fleshed out character. esp compared to jane who summons an entire world + history for me.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:27 (eleven years ago) link
we're only just now kind of learning about Ginsberg, and it feels like he's gonna have a larger role to play.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i'm curious to see what they do. what a totally weird thing tho to have him born in a camp.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
you could barely know she was jewish.
i didn't know this at all before this ep. (but like i said above my recall is shit)
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:31 (eleven years ago) link
i think that was intentional. you'd have to be paying really close attention. (which indicates how assimilated she is.) i'm told there was something re her cousin that was kind of a hint but idr it.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:33 (eleven years ago) link
to be fair we barely see anything of jane
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't Weiner basically say explicitly that she and her cousin were jewish and meant to be read as very assimilated?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:55 (eleven years ago) link
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 02:57 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty weird that they've never mentioned Bill Bernbach.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:14 (eleven years ago) link
well they've mentioned his work
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
given that Ginsberg was cheerfully claiming to be from Mars in this episode I don't know how much diegetic credence to lend to the idea that he was born in a concentration camp, but who knows, the dude is mysterious.
Mordy would you have been less o_O at Ginsberg Sr.'s blessing if it had been the shehechyanu and not the child's blessing?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
if he had said shehechyanu and not put his hands on his head, yeah, i'd be much less o_O. i say shehechyanu sometimes.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
Was surprised (not surprised at all) that they mentioned Braniff Airlines a few weeks back but didn't mention Mary Wells. x-posts
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:25 (eleven years ago) link
wait how were you surprised and yet not surprised at all
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:34 (eleven years ago) link
Because there's no reason that the show shouldn't have brought her up some context before seeing as she was a huge deal, but I wasn't surprised because Mad Men has a terrible track record with admitting that there were a fair number of incredibly successful female copywriters/executives at the time and that Peggy isn't unique or even slightly a trailblazer?
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:40 (eleven years ago) link
lol i know i was kidding wit u
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:42 (eleven years ago) link
Also I might start my own thread on this or something because I know it's annoying to everyone and I really don't want a repeat of the previous Mad Men thread's clusterfuck, but the entire way they've treated Dawn's storyline has been so downright bizarre that I'm not sure what they're even going for. A black secretary at a company like SCDP wouldn't have been that unusual in 1960 much less 1966. I'm not sure what the point is, since she doesn't even have her own story (and apparently never will because she doesn't want to be a copywriter), she's just a character to watch Roger/Peggy/etc. be racist towards. And it wouldn't be anachronistic to do a black copywriter at this point, so Weiner's hands aren't tied or anything in terms of finally offering up a character of color with a single moment of development on the show. Why did they even bother with this given that she's apparently not going to be a character whose perspective we ever see? It just seems like some cheap "times are changing" window dressing to me (on the same level as Mad Men's usual thing with using black people as props at parties to signify a level of progressiveness) and I find it gross. I mean, I could be wrong and she could suddenly become a fleshed out character, but so far the show definitely is working far harder to develop Ginsberg than Dawn.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:13 (eleven years ago) link
i agree with what you say. i wonder whether the lack of a substantive black character is part of weiner's seeming compulsion to not follow predictable TV-series tropes (in this case, introducing a minority character late in a series)--obviously it's misguided if the case.
although having a major black character would in some sense make the show "about race" in a way that one can argue it is not at this point, in any great measure anyway. maybe you just have a bunch of white writers too scared to introduce a major black character and "get it wrong." which would be telling in its own way.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
A black secretary at a company like SCDP wouldn't have been that unusual in 1960 much less 1966.
this is absolutely true. a LOT of (black) friends' parents and grandparents were secretaries in white-owned and largely white-operated firms. it was actually a major way black families could become upwardly mobile in the middle of the century.
i don't know if this pattern holds all over the country, but it's certainly true in major northern cities.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
that would be a fun thread xposts
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:30 (eleven years ago) link
i don't mind having that discussion here. got to do _something_ in between sundays.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:31 (eleven years ago) link
i say have at it right here
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:32 (eleven years ago) link
seems like the tension is between Matt Weiner as the p. much undisputed Author of the series as a whole being interested in and capable of telling stories about a set of things that apparently doesn't include black folks and the importance of advocating for diverse viewpoints in the pop culture we as a society create and consume
it'd be nice if MW turned out to have an angle on race/black folks other than erasure/omission and tokenization
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:40 (eleven years ago) link
I don't see his use of race or black folks as tokenization.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:43 (eleven years ago) link
Tokenization would require more interest than he seems to have.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:45 (eleven years ago) link
this might have been optimistic for the season ahead, but Mad Men and Race
His figures might be disputed (Melissa would know) but I think it's always important to remember how this is a show about an insular place that is incredibly slow in adapting to anything, whether it be cultural or personal. I'd like to see Dawn developed (although I imagine that would be tricky), but her face after Peggy says "but you're not a nurse" was one of the best moments of the season for me.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:47 (eleven years ago) link
I'll probably be disappointed if the race issue doesn't develop more though, if only because the first scene was so much about it and that tends to establish the theme for the season.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:51 (eleven years ago) link
Don Draper sitting there with the Ad Age reporter v.o. "Who is Don Draper?" a pretty great moment for the show last season. Except for it being "on the nose" I guess
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:53 (eleven years ago) link
I think the insularity of SCDP would be easier to swallow if the show would occasionally acknowledge the world outside its walls. Peggy still seems to think she's the only female copywriter in New York, as does everyone around her. Caroline Robinson was already three years into being a copywriter at JWT while the show is acting like hiring Dawn would have been a big deal. There's no way that these characters wouldn't know these things already.
And I have issues galore with that Slate article. But that would take a little time for me to detangle and I'm drifting off. x-post
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 04:59 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know. the world around them seems to pop up as background extras in parties so
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 05:01 (eleven years ago) link
I'm pretty sure Dawn will develop as a character. there are, thankfully, more ways her character could develop that her wanting to be a copywriter (which would be ridiculous, frankly, since two of don's previous secretaries have had this as a development point) but her character development would only make sense as a result of contact/conflict/empathy or whatever with other members of the office and she's had limited contact with anyone, other than peggy, so far which this seems realistic.
― jed_, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 10:47 (eleven years ago) link
There's no reason the show couldn't follow her home the way it has Ginsberg.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:07 (eleven years ago) link
true but it was that that seemed unusual coming so early on.
― jed_, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:09 (eleven years ago) link
I agree Dawn hasn't had much to do so far but I don't think the fact that she's working there is considered that weird to anyone at SCDP except dinosaurs like Roger.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:33 (eleven years ago) link
The camera following Ginsberg home felt really jarring at the time, they totally fumbled that IMO.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:34 (eleven years ago) link
(It's also a show that has tended to introduce characters, even major ones like Laine and Megan, very slowly. Not saying they'll definitely develop Dawn's character but they could well do so).
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:35 (eleven years ago) link
Truly boggled that ppl are complaining about not enough development of Ginsburg and Dawn something like two episodes after they were introduced
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:50 (eleven years ago) link
Also I don't see how it's obvious in any way that Dawn isn't going to have a larger role, they are always promoting characters out of the background, do I even have to mention Megan
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:51 (eleven years ago) link
That doesn't make for a great social justice outrage Guardian article though.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 12:41 (eleven years ago) link
Fuck off.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 12:47 (eleven years ago) link
I think after four seasons of no poc on the show, and finally the only black character introduced in an era of black copywriters is a secretary, it's not being unreasonable to ask for a little more from the Mad Men writing staff. This isn't 2 and a half girls. We can expect a little more.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:07 (eleven years ago) link
And with Ginsburg the problem isn't that he isn't fleshed out enough but that the backstory and characterization they've given him is particularly poor and tin-eared. But I get that for whatever reason there will always be ppl defending this show against these sorts of critiques.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:15 (eleven years ago) link
im quite happy to hear criticism of this show, and i think there are lots of things wrong with it, but i just abhor the loathsome obsession with representation. it's tiresome.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
I'm really not bothered if all we see of Dawn is her sitting at her desk answering phones tbh. There's plenty of other characters that maintain my interest.
― pandemic, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:23 (eleven years ago) link
if mad men had 15.2%, or whatever the correct quota would be, of fleshed out minority characters, and the correspondent ratio of women copywriters would that make any fucking difference to anything whatsoever? and would it change the fact that the matthew weiner's of this world are and will continue to be mainly white dudes, which would seem to me to be the more pertinent issue? blah. whatevs.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:23 (eleven years ago) link
it's not just the lack of representation but the type of representation. considering how terrible the few scenes with dawn this season have been (particularly w/ peggy + the purse) maybe they've been avoiding race cause they kinda suck at writing about it?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:24 (eleven years ago) link
They're deliberately muddying the backstory and characterisation of Ginsburg, the whole point is that we don't know which bits he's making up and which bits are true.
We don't know where they're going with Dawn's character at all yet. Although I'm unsure if they're being criticised for not giving her much screen time or failing to put a black character in a sufficiently senior position (in a very conservative environment). If you're going to critique the writers' treatment of these characters then it's probably best to wait until closer to the end of the series, otherwise it's like making pronouncements on Peggy's character based on four or five episodes in S1.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:26 (eleven years ago) link
We're talking about quotas awfully early on in this conversation. Wake me up when we get to pretending that what I actually unreasonably want from the show is a legion of feminist black one-legged schizophrenic lesbians. x-posts
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:29 (eleven years ago) link
Even Peggy tho - how come the most powerful female copywriter in the show had to be championed by a white guy? I love Peggy and I've enjoyed her story but this is a very particular way of showing how these equality movements made inroads. Instead of showing (except obliquely through office windows and rumors) how people were fighting to break their way in, they primarily show when the company is forced or agrees to let people in. They hire Dawn because they made a stupid advertisement to needle a different firm. Obviously they have the right to their artistic vision, but no one is wrong to question why this is the particular artistic vision they're pursuing.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:37 (eleven years ago) link
I love Peggy and I've enjoyed her story but this is a very particular way of showing how these equality movements made inroads. Instead of showing (except obliquely through office windows and rumors) how people were fighting to break their way in, they primarily show when the company is forced or agrees to let people in
the majority of the show takes place in the advertising agency. it doesnt seem unnatural that such things are presented in the way they are.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:43 (eleven years ago) link
It seems unnatural because it actually makes no sense.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
no sense in the narrative of the show or no sense in that it is not realistic because it's not historically accurate? the latter being not very important, imo.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:48 (eleven years ago) link
altho the show is at pains to explain that the particular agency is especially conservative. kinsey saying in the first season that there are women copywriters at other firms. when ginsberg is hired it's explained that every agency has a "jew" copywriter and that one "even" has a "coloured" copywriter.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:50 (eleven years ago) link
Both? It's extremely poor character development both for Peggy and Dawn and deprives them of drive and agency and makes them flatter and more boring as characters. And it's not historically accurate. The two things are not mutually exclusive. x-post
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:52 (eleven years ago) link
And you don't see how that's kind of lazy and gross?
Anyone else pick up hints that Ginsberg's father is schizophrenic? The Mars story.. Holocaust.. Randomly showing up at the office to 'make xeroxes for his case'.
― beat hitachi, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:54 (eleven years ago) link
You realize that it was a deliberate decision to set it at such a conservative agency, and to make it similarly conservative when they broke off into their own agency? And of course, the 'historical circumstances' only don't matter when they contradict the vision of the show. If history had shown that there were no black copywriters in 1966 I'm sure the rallying cry would go up that the show is just trying to be historically accurate. Why can't viewers hold the writers accountable for the parts of history that they choose to utilize? Would it have been so out of character if after breaking off to form SCDP they had broader hiring practices? Could've easily fit into the world of the show, imho. Hell, with a little tweaking they could've hired a black copywriter after the ad fiasco and it would've been totally believable. if you don't believe the writers should be criticized for these choices, you are sorta invalidated the entire field of art criticism in general.
What are they saying, how are they saying it, and what do you feel about what they're saying? All fair questions, imho.
But I get that for whatever reason there will always be ppl defending this show against these sorts of critiques.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:56 (eleven years ago) link
You realize that it was a deliberate decision to set it at such a conservative agency, and to make it similarly conservative when they broke off into their own agency?
i do realise this. i just don't realise why it is incumbent on them not to do this.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
Afaic they have free will and agency to make whatever choices they wanted, just as I have the free will and agency to criticize them for choices I feel are poorly made. Why is this a substantially poorer thing about which to criticize them than, say, writing an episode you found boring? If anything I find the political critiques much more resonant and important than criticisms of aesthetics or pace.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:02 (eleven years ago) link
If anything I find the political critiques much more resonant and important than criticisms of aesthetics or pace
this is where we differ completely i guess.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:04 (eleven years ago) link
― pandemic, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:05 (eleven years ago) link
FWIW I think Melissa's reading of Peggy is doing the character a massive disservice, that because she's not on a politicised frontline that she lacks drive of her agency of her own. You're being really reductive about the character to fit your critique.
Actually one of the interesting things about Peggy's character is that she's actually very uncomfortable on a politicised frontline, the discussion about eg civil rights from last season. The whole point of Mad Men is that it's viewing the changes of the 60s through a conservative lens through the eyes of people who are seeing the world they're used to slipping away, which is kind of the opposite of the way we're used to looking at them with the benefit of decades of hindsight. (The interesting thing about Don is that he's caught between these two impulses).
If it was a show about people forcing their way up from the bottom it would be completely different, although by no means less interesting, but other writers have done that.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
it's a shame that mad men, unlike all other tv ever, has failed to perfectly represent an exact time in history.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:17 (eleven years ago) link
lol, this is like when ppl argue on the politics threads that the only complaint against obama is that he's not perfect.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:20 (eleven years ago) link
I think the thing to me is that there's no way a person with Peggy's story ever existed, so I find her inherently uninteresting on the level of watching her career arc play out. She's a bizarre character to me. Inarticulate, flat, disinterested in the world, petulant, almost actively bad at her job whenever we get to see her do it. Elisabeth Moss doesn't help the flatness to me. If I had to name a single reason that Mad Men does not appeal to me, I would cite Peggy. She doesn't make any sense to me for a character in her position. She seems like a writerly creation through and through, designed to buck expectation for what people would expect out of a character like her, without much critical thought put into what expectations for her character actually made sense for her context and which ones could be interestingly subverted. x-post
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:20 (eleven years ago) link
there's no way a person with Peggy's story ever existed
Why not?
God knows Mad Men has its flaws but that post confirms my suspicion that you're complaining about the writers choosing to present her as a conflicted and imperfect human being rather than a feminist strawwoman.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:23 (eleven years ago) link
maybe you should assume ppl are arguing in good faith and that there isn't some hidden man-hating feminazi agenda?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:24 (eleven years ago) link
Yes because that's exactly what I said in my post.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
that post confirms my suspicion that you're complaining about the writers choosing to present her as a conflicted and imperfect human being rather than a feminist strawwoman.
no, that's exactly what you said in your post ^
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:29 (eleven years ago) link
I have no desire for her to be a feminist, or at least not a self-identified one or a perfect one or someone who even necessarily cares about the plight of other women. But I don't believe that there were women like her, women with no drive or initial ambition or particular verbal or social skills who became copywriters through off-hand remarks about baskets full of kisses to some guy who apparently thought such an utterance was comparable to watching a dog walk on its hind legs. Even Megan's brand of ambition makes far more sense to me than Peggy's.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
Okay let's go read Mad Style & talk about that:http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/04/mad-style-far-away-places.html
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
I don't believe that there were women like her, women with no drive or initial ambition or particular verbal or social skills who became copywriters through off-hand remarks about baskets full of kisses to some guy who apparently thought such an utterance was comparable to watching a dog walk on its hind legs
subjective misanthropy...
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:35 (eleven years ago) link
Not even sure what you mean by that? But I'm going out for a few hours now. Have fun while I'm gone.
― Melissa W, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
Other than the presentation this week, I'm not seeing much evidence that Peggy isn't good at her job, or lacks drive (quite the opposite in the last couple of seasons).
off-hand remarks about baskets full of kisses to some guy who apparently thought such an utterance was comparable to watching a dog walk on its hind legs
This was about Don realising that you're better-placed to sell things to women if you get in people who at least slightly understand them rather than people like Freddie Rumsden.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:42 (eleven years ago) link
there's no way a person with Peggy's story ever existed,
this does not compute.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
why would anyone assume that peggy had no drive or ambition or verbal skills!?
― s.clover, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
i guess Melissa has gone - but if someone could try to explain what she meant by this? is she referring to a specific aspect of her story here? or..??
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 14:49 (eleven years ago) link
But I don't believe that there were women like her, women with no drive or initial ambition or particular verbal or social skills who became copywriters through off-hand remarks about baskets full of kisses to some guy who apparently thought such an utterance was comparable to watching a dog walk on its hind legs. Even Megan's brand of ambition makes far more sense to me than Peggy's.
this makes no sense to me. peggy isn't a perfectly realized character, but she does strike me as generally credible. she's got a lot of drive and ambition, exceptional intelligence and insight, good verbal and at least decent social skills. she's nowhere near to me as absurd in her role as pete, but i accept the less-than-credible aspects of pete's character in the name of dramatic/narrative intent.
i don't think that political critiques of the show's construction and assumption are inherently off-base or uninteresting, but i do think that the decision to make SCDP a fairly conservative and old-fashioned social environment is a valid one. as has been suggested, the show's basic point-of-view represents an increasingly obsolete culture's bewilderment and reluctance in the face of change, not the attempts of change agents to recreate the world. it could do a "better" job of telling both stories, or a wider variety of stories, but i think it gains something, thematically, from focusing as closely as it does on this dysfunctional white boys' club.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
Well, Peggy isn't portrayed as a female copywriter with drive like a high profile, female copywriter of that time who has been interviewed a lot in regards to the show's accuracy. Since that individual, who was pretty awesome in her field, excelled then Mad Men is doing a disservice to the portrayal of women by not showing Peggy as highly motivated and very successful. Except when it's not.
All clear now, right?
― mh, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
imo the show has been set up to show a group of people straddling two generations. if this was a show that was set in our time, the first season would have shown Don flirting with some cute younger lady who was into texting on a blackberry while he was still relying on his office phone, and season 4 would have all the youth of the office using smartphones and the olds in the office saying "do we need an 'app' for this campaign?" with no idea how to use an iphone
― mh, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
It's worth pointing out as well that even the mighty Don Draper only got his job because Roger offered him one while drunk.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
We don't know that for sure! Don may have said that Roger offered him a job. It's one of the better ambiguities of the show.
― mh, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
And Don is of course a completely historically inaccurate portrayal of secret farmboys whose mothers were prostitutes who died in childbirth.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
or, it would be if a person with such a story could ever have existed.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
sheesh what is going on here
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
rmde at complaints about "accuracy"
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
if you think about it though the x files is even more far-fetched than mad men
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
i mean why would scully just abandon her beliefs halfway through???
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
this character is so poorly formed, and after a whole handful of scenes in two episodes! AWFUL
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
sudden realization that the other person Megan reminds me of (besides Freddy Mercury), especially in this shot, is Joan Crawford:
http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/Television/MadMenS5/MadStyleS5E6/ms21.jpg
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
i think melissa's criticism are valid, even if they dont totally diminish the show in my mind. if you're gonna make a show about powerful white people yet again then you leave yourself open to that. but i think they (the writers) are trying pretty valiantly to avoid the standard 1960s tropes, those condescending progressive tales of the 60s as "when it all changed."
― ryan, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
before this evolved into hack n slash, i was very on board with the points on the laziness of this show to set dress with "period" characters that aren't really periodsigh xpost, just agreeing with ryan
― boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
it's kind of the document of powerful white men in their heyday, before we finally started busting down some of those walls
constantly bumbling along, wondering why they can't figure some things out, when anyone who wasn't a privileged white dude would be able to relate to people they're marketing too much better
sadly almost all their clients are dumb white dudes, too
― mh, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
yah, i think a vast majority of the "you have a FEMALE COPY WRITER?!" over the past few seasons has come from the old, dumb white clients that come in for a meeting. nobody in the industry seems surprised.
moving on, I'm hoping that Bert's admonishment at the end of the episode means that we're going to get more forward thrust till the end of the season now that we've established where all the main characters are in relationship to the end of last season.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
it seems important to me that in the beginning sterling cooper wasn't a particularly big, important, or good ad agency, and was getting by pretty much on don's brilliance alone. if they were forward-thinking in the slightest then it would be a completely different show (or couldn't even exist at all), but as it is roger's already coasting and bert is in charge of the day to day despite being a hundred and fifty years old, so it makes sense that it's a situation where change is going to come especially slowly.
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 22:23 (eleven years ago) link
you think Bert is in charge why now?
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
seems pretty clear Lane and Joan run the show afaict
he might not be in charge but he still has the power to pwn don
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 22:37 (eleven years ago) link
not now, at the beginning. disappeared since the scdp transition, obv.
― michael nyman cat (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
ah right. yeah that makes sense.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 22:54 (eleven years ago) link
Lane and Joan show is otm. We idealize the creatives and the story concentrates on them but contracts and billing keep it afloat.
― mh, Thursday, 26 April 2012 00:38 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's important to remember though, as far as progressive hiring practices and coming to accept the modern era, there is no top down desire to do so (and that's where it would likely come from). Lane and Joan run the company, but they're mostly focussed on keeping it together and not so much concerned with bringing it into a new era creatively.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Thursday, 26 April 2012 01:10 (eleven years ago) link
Roger looking super cuet in this episode, I must say
― poxen, Thursday, 26 April 2012 01:35 (eleven years ago) link
Bert is still probably the major shareholder and while he might not be involved in the day to day he has the authority to tell Don to get his act together.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Thursday, 26 April 2012 06:53 (eleven years ago) link
interiors here: http://dinerwood.blogspot.com/2010/02/rods-grill-back-off-arcadia-were.html
― tits or kitfo (get bent), Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:43 AM (2 days ago)
this has been used in like a million movies/shows before, right?
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 26 April 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
melissa's critique makes no sense. the show is explicitly ABOUT how this particular social group isn't involving black characters & when peggy tries to do so, she does it in an awkward manner. its not accepting of these issues, its drawing our attention directly to it. That even the addition of a black character doesn't really impact their social lives whatsoever etc.
― man down (D-40), Friday, 27 April 2012 05:13 (eleven years ago) link
like, you're critiquing the show for not fighting what the show is already implicitly critiquing
sadly otm
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Friday, 27 April 2012 05:15 (eleven years ago) link
one of melissa's critiques is that the show is anachronistically tepid in the show's acceptance of a mixed race office/social world in direct opposition to the more broad mores of the time and that it's ignoring more complex issues in favor of soap opera. that resonates, is accurate and is more or less damning depending on what you're watching the show for.
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 April 2012 06:01 (eleven years ago) link
I think you're denigrating the show by using the term "soap opera", as though it was doing this as a cheap lot device and not as an exploration of character and theme. I think Melissa's critique is fine as long as its accepted that she's hoping the show is different from what it wants to be.
I'd also like her to explain why this is wrong:
In the real-world history of Madison Avenue, 1967 was the year in which the industry’s racist past started coming home to roost. In the fall of that year, data was released by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission showing that minority employment in advertising had barely changed since 1963. And come January and March of 1968, the EEOC and the New York City Commission on Human Rights dragged executives from every major agency in front of the cameras for weeks of public hearings, exposing the shameful discrimination practices of the industry, filing lawsuits against several of them. And then, very soon after those hearings, Madison Avenue finally, finally, began to grasp what had been going on all around them.
as she alluded to having a large number of problems with the article that came (which is posted above), I'd like her to expand upon that.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 06:42 (eleven years ago) link
there being other successful women in advertising ... i feel like it would still feel fairly isolating considering they weren't exactly equally distributed?
― man down (D-40), Friday, 27 April 2012 07:12 (eleven years ago) link
i mean, early on i v much had a critique that the show seemed to be indulging in stereotypes rather than really critiquing them but as its gone on i think its moved into much more nuanced territory
I'm okay with the female women in advertising thing, because again, this show is interested in exploring Peggy's growth. Honestly, it's been a number of years (chronologically) since anyone's really cared that there is a woman copywriter. Last season some men bucked at her giving orders, but she's also become de fact second in command in the department (with the power to fire someone, mind) in about 3 years. The only people who have really been questioning of her being a woman are old, white, dinosaur clients who are, themselves, desperately trying to figure out what in the hell "kids these days" like.
Alyssa Rosenberg (who is not a fan of the show) said an interesting thing a few weeks ago. The historical events that have taken place so far that any of the central characters has cared about all happened far away, and very few of them are really paying attention to the riots and the protests about race that are happening in their own city. I think that's a pretty big part of the show in that affluent white people at this time (and in the present, really) can basically ignore the rest of the world by isolating themselves from it through money. It's not just that SCDP is slow to adapt because it's conservative, it's also because the partners (save Lane, I suppose) are all well-off and able to live in a little bubble.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 07:30 (eleven years ago) link
Thinking about where they're going with Dawn's character, surely the possibility of lonely Laine cracking onto her and possibly actually having an affair with her is quite high? They've been exploring his somewhat conflicted attitudes to race more than most of the other characters, except Peggy. Most of the characters seem either moderately racist or they're like Don and show no signs of caring one way or the other.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Friday, 27 April 2012 09:40 (eleven years ago) link
LANE
― mh, Friday, 27 April 2012 14:06 (eleven years ago) link
layeen
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 April 2012 14:13 (eleven years ago) link
I think you're denigrating the show by using the term "soap opera", as though it was doing this as a cheap lot device and not as an exploration of character and theme
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 April 2012 14:14 (eleven years ago) link
a lot of great shows have heavy soap opera dynamics
― mh, Friday, 27 April 2012 14:16 (eleven years ago) link
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no, melissa's critique seems to be that the show is "anachronistically tepid" wr2 these things in comparison to a few acknowledged trailblazers. that may be accurate, but i don't find it particularly resonant or damning. honestly, i think that mad men captures the day-to-day mores of its time & place pretty well. it concentrates not on the reactionary or progressive extremes, the entire tapestry of culture, but on a few small people caught somewhere in the middle. that seems a valid strategy to me.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Friday, 27 April 2012 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
1. My critique is that the show is about the most boring ad agency in New York when it could be about a fictionalized BBDO or JWT, to be honest. I mean, for all that my problems with the show rest on criticisms that may come across as sociopolitical in nature, my biggest problem with the show is that it's boring and I hate all the characters and I don't understand why there is a tv show about them. I'd rather watch fictional Caroline Robinson Jones as a character. I'd rather watch fictional Mary Wells Lawrence. I hate that Mad Men exists and yet I'm never going to see something like their story play out, because it's what I'd find compelling and because it's such a missed opportunity. I straight-up don't understand what's compelling about watching a show about a middling ad agency with middling aims which will never actually get to the interesting stuff that was actually happening in the ad industry in the 60s which doesn't cover the perspective of anyone whose perspective isn't usually covered by tv or films set during the era. Don Draper would have been the lead character in Mad Men if it had been a movie made in 1960. So what's the point, really? Like idk y'all are missing the point that I just think the show is bad and boring and I wish it were better. I mean, not that I don't think it isn't actually gross with respect to women and POC and isn't anachronistic in many respects, but I'm not just pissed off because I want it to tick some social justice boxes for the sake of being more diverse. I want it to be more interesting to watch.
2. Somewhere up there someone called me out for comparing Peggy to trailblazers and then unreasonably complaining that she falls short, which honestly makes no sense to me. Because while there were far more women in advertising at the time than Mad Men suggests, the ones who did make it as far as Peggy were basically rock stars. None of the women who worked general accounts were as mediocre at their job as Peggy appears to be, because blah blah had to be twice as good to be seen as half as good as their male counterparts. Maybe she's about the level of a low-level minion on women's accounts in terms of her displayed skill. I brought up Mary Wells because there was that scene earlier in the season where Roger claimed that Mohawk would want someone handling their accounts who had a penis. But if Mohawk/Roger was paying any attention to the competition (Braniff), they'd know that Wells had just completely revitalized them and it's weird that Roger wouldn't say something like "we could sell you to them as our own Mary Wells".
3. I have problems with the conclusions that that Slate article draws based on his perception of the Mad Men characters and historical statistics. As if Roger doing blackface has anything to do with the hiring practices of SCDP (seriously, want to venture a guess as to how many current partners of major companies have done something as gross wrt race as blackface?). As if the show is skill with respect to how it handles race by not really handling it at all. As if the absence of a story can be a statement in and of itself (spoiler alert: it can't be, or else Friends and Girls are also really nuanced portraits of race in the 90s and 10s). I'm tired of people congratulating Mad Men for having the bravery or something to be all white. It's just gross, especially coming from a white dude on Slate (who seems to fancy himself an expert on race relations à la Tim Wise). It's one thing to me to defend the accuracy of SCDP being all white (sure, it's plausible), it's quite another to claim that that in and of itself is a powerful statement on race rather than the absence of one. I mean sure, it might be Matthew Weiner's justification (see: his justification for getting rid of Sal and thus the presence of all LGBT issues on the show), but it's a poor one. Ultimately, my point is that if you can both historically justify the show being all white and just as easily historically justify having some (really interesting) characters of color, why on earth would you go with the first option? Why would you continue to go for the first option as the show is entering its fifth season and 1966?
Matthew Weiner has made some gross comments about how the ad agency is "still" all white so I think the answer is that he thinks he's doing everybody a favor and that he really is making some sort of trenchant commentary about race in corporate America by not having any characters of color, because somehow he thinks he's incapable of telling the story in such a way that SCDP's hiring of a character of color doesn't end with "and then racism was over, the end". Because clearly the answer to the after school special grossness of how race is often covered in things like this is to just not have people of color in your stories at all.
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
god this is obnoxious I should start my own thread
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 15:58 (eleven years ago) link
i like the show more than you seem to, but otherwise you're otm and i think you should continue to post in this thread.
― Mordy, Friday, 27 April 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
"a show about a middling ad agency with middling aims" <-- this is what makes it good, i think.
― s.clover, Friday, 27 April 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
I mean, for all that my problems with the show rest on criticisms that may come across as sociopolitical in nature, my biggest problem with the show is that it's boring and I hate all the characters and I don't understand why there is a tv show about them.
lol okay kinda don't get why you're posting on this thread then
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
insert "food here is terrible/and in such small portions" joke
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
what shouldn't she post here? there isn't a finite amount of thread space. it can accommodate ppl who are passionate about the show, ppl turned off by it, and every position in between.
― Mordy, Friday, 27 April 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
Because it is a show that appeals to me a lot in theory but not in practice, which compels me to watch it but also be eternally frustrated.
Also, I think the show should have just started in 1950 rather than 1960. It wouldn't fix everything, but it would actually make the show less annoying on several fronts. x-posts
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
I just always find it odd when people expend a lot of intellectual energy engaging with a piece of work they profess to hate.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
nah, i like long, thoughtful posts. wish there were more such stuff on ILX. fwiw, i agree with you that there's nothing terribly remarkable about mad men's approach to race and gender. it's just another show about mediocre white people living mediocre lives. but, see, i was never sold the idea that it might be any more than that. i never saw anything more than that in the show. i like it for what it is, with the understanding that it's really just the thousand thousandth variation on the same old thing.
so your last round criticism, while undeniable, still doesn't really "resonate" for me. yes, i wish american TV were better. i wish it were more curious, smart and brave, that it weren't so complacently focused on stories about middle class white people going through the same old relationshit. but that's a criticism of american television, not of mad men in particular.
the one thing i can't deny or wave away is your point about mary wells and braniff, especially as it plays into SCDP's acquisition of an airline client and peggy's struggles to be taken seriously by clients. the show's ignorance of or decision to elide people like wells is kind of shameful.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
for ex. if the food tastes bad, I don't continue eating it and ordering more so that I can continue to complain about how bad it is to the people at the table next to me.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy is very good at her job from what I can see, she's just not good in front of frustrating clients (and it isn't her job to do so, Don just left her in the lurch).
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i don't. why shouldn't someone wrestle with something they don't like? and melissa i really like your posts here
― madame boo berry (donna rouge), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
Noticing some typos I made above. Should be "Matthew Weiner has made some gross comments about how the ad industry is "still" all white", not "ad agency". x-post
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
can't believe this show is about perspectives and people have interpretations of those perspectives
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's p. normal for people to keep up with zeitgeist-y things even if they dislike them, particularly if they feel the critical conversation is overlooking things they feel strongly about. substitute "the twilight saga" for "food" in your quote above and you've described 40% of my online interactions during 2009.
― supreme sundae (reddening), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
why shouldn't someone wrestle with something they don't like? and melissa i really like your posts here
donna otm
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
why shouldn't someone wrestle with something they don't like?
it's just not an inclination I share. I have more productive, enjoyable things to do with my time.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
it's one thing to critically engage with say, a book or a film you don't like. 5 seasons of a TV show seems a bit much.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
yes tbh i was frustrated by your earlier posts, Melissa, but the long one you just posted is definite food for thought, thanks.
― jed_, Friday, 27 April 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
like I can critically engage with a couple songs and figure out why I don't like a them. Listening to the act's entire catalog seems more like being a glutton for punishment.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:39 (eleven years ago) link
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, April 27, 2012 11:10 AM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i completely disagree w/ melissa but cmon this post is hilarious
― man down (D-40), Friday, 27 April 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
(spoiler alert: it can't be, or else Friends and Girls are also really nuanced portraits of race in the 90s and 10s)
what? it cant because if it could, these two specific examples WOULD be? have you ever seen a whit stillman movie?
― man down (D-40), Friday, 27 April 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
None of the women who worked general accounts were as mediocre at their job as Peggy appears to be
i never get the impression whatsoever that she's bad at her job? this feels like fiction
― man down (D-40), Friday, 27 April 2012 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Friday, 27 April 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
madmen tends to feel like it could be a truly great show that often settles for good with flashes of stupidity and excellence. The last episode was SO good though tbrr
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 April 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
Well, that's the thing though. Impression is all the show operates on when it comes to Peggy. She is often said to be good, but whenever we actually see her doing anything related to a pitch, her idea is poorly thought out or needs significant finessing by Don to actually be a pitch rather than toothless brainstorming ("you can't frame a phone call"). She is never shown to be a heavy hitter that can get the job done on her own, and when we do see her solo her ideas usually aren't great and she can't land a pitch. It was actively weird when Don tried to say that her ideas were ahead of their time at the end of season 3 when he was trying to get her to join the new agency, when she hadn't actually created anything on her own that entire season.
I don't think the show necessarily means to portray her as bad at her job, but she's pretty much never been shown as being good at her job, and that's a pretty significant failure on the part of the show. When we hear about her, she's great. But when they bother to show her working, it's only when she's fucking up or collaborating with Don and not really contributing much. I honestly can't think of a time when Peggy has been shown as hitting anything out of the park or really impressing anyone.
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
wrong again
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy (w/Ken) breaking the firm's "losing streak" last season
I'm sure there's others
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
Aside from Don winning the Clio (which Peggy played a part in), when was the last time he really 'knocked it out of the park'? I think the focus has shifted, as though we're meant to take for granted that both Don and Peggy are competent at their jobs, it's just how they're selling it that differs. Peggy's gambit last week seemed absurd and suicidal, but Don has taken similar approaches and they worked.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
wanna say there was something to do with Ponds re: Peggy but can't remember
also yeah this show hardly focuses on "the work" per se (the agency spent most of last season scranbling just to GET work at all)
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy's gambit last week seemed absurd and suicidal, but Don has taken similar approaches and they worked
this was totally intentional tho. Peggy was very deliberately aping Don's diction, mannerisms and speech patterns - but it backfired for the reason some other (female) character previously noted, "no one likes a woman who acts like a man"
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
I agree. I don't think it was down to being bad at her job.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
with shakey and gubke here. there's every indication in the show that peggy really is remarkably good at her job. it's just that the show says this more than shows it. similar to pete's apparent excellence when we mostly just see him being a weaselly little dork. the problem is that the show doesn't devote much time to the day-to-day advertising work that sustains the company, not that peggy is poor at her job or a fundamentally unbelievable creation.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
the only thing they really show is that she works insane hours.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
the problem is that the show doesn't devote much time to the day-to-day advertising work
this isn't a problem. a show that did would be mind-numbingly boring.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
cuz then every episode really WOULD end with someone selling beans or whatever
i still don't get the "there's no way a person with Peggy's story ever existed" jab from yesterday. like, what aspect are we talking about here? her promotion/career arc - or private life?
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
remembered something else - it was Peggy's idea that was used for the ad that won the Clio
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
i mean problem relative to how we understand the characters' relationships w their jobs. dramatically, it's obviously a good call.
― THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Friday, 27 April 2012 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
― Melissa W, Friday, April 27, 2012 1:07 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
in addition to what everyone else said, she's like 15 years younger than don! of course she's not as experienced or successful as him -- the dynamic (which is shifting) is that he's good at his job & she's a rising talent, and i think they convey that dynamic effectively
― man down (D-40), Friday, 27 April 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
On the bright side, SCDP isn't just riffing on the Volkswagon ad like a lot of their lesser competition seems to
― mh, Friday, 27 April 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
I think this raises the interesting question of the show's relationship to Don's supposed "genius"--is it agnostic on that front? (I'm thinking in particular of that amazing ep where Don says that kids are already nostalgic for the childhood they are in the middle of and not so much the "love was created by men like me in order to sell nylons.")
― ryan, Friday, 27 April 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
well he sure has been shown to be fucking up quite a bit over the last season and a half
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
Disagree with Shakey, agree with contendo. The excitement that was captured on S1E1 ("Lucky Strike: it's toasted") has never been equalled. The show had the opportunity to be a Sherlock Holmes / Law & Order style 'weekly puzzle', but has dissolved into the flimsy race/gender commentary (well said, btw, Melissa) and character-based melodrama. I still like the show, sure, but never as much as I did in the very beginning.
― poxen, Friday, 27 April 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
The show had the opportunity to be a Sherlock Holmes / Law & Order style 'weekly puzzle'
you think TV needs more of this why now
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
i like both, but L&O is about 100x the show that MM is
― Mordy, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
you are insane
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
@ Shakey, you know what I mean, don't be like that. The (successful) ad presentations, as rare as they've become, are the best part of the show imo.
― poxen, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not sure I know what you mean at all...? I hate formulaic procedural dramas, especially legal/cop ones (for all kinds of reasons), the idea that Mad Men would be better off being some kind of topical puzzle show strikes me as bizarre.
I'm not really interested in ad presentations themselves. they're only interesting on Mad Men because of what they reflect about the characters involved.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like the real strength of MM is that it avoids either a "weekly puzzle," a "social commentary" approach, or a history-based Forrest Gump style boomer narcissism. the show seems totally unwilling to congratulate its viewers for their progressiveness (imo).
Instead, I think the most compelling thing about the show are the little burst of absolute weirdness (Roger barfing is my fav example, it almost seems surreal the way its staged and shot.)
― ryan, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:10 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe the show should be about an accounting firm. x-post
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:10 (eleven years ago) link
agree with ryan. it's an amalgam of all those things but it routinely frustrates their respective conventions. and the weird stuff - roger barfing, the lawnmower crippling, the LSD trip, dream sequences and flashbacks - are part of a lineage that comes from Twin Peaks via the Sopranos.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
just like to pop in to say "roger barfing" was literally the moment i knew i was gonna keep with the show.
― circa1916, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:20 (eleven years ago) link
I wish they'd mine the advertising angle a bit more, but it's a worthwhile undercurrent to have through the show. It's kind of the running joke that these people are trying to read people to sell stuff when they have such a difficulty reading themselves, and that they can ignore the larger world while attempting to understand it to create a fictional, simplistic idea of it to sell products.
Also advertising is about as disgusting a line of business as there is, so that's always there.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
xp @ Shakey, I was agreeing with contenderizer's statement that "the problem is that the show doesn't devote much time to the day-to-day advertising work that sustains the company".
What interested me most about the show isn't Betty's State of Mind or the Continuing Adventures of Joan... what interests me is seeing the characters talk through ad campaigns, have a moment of inspiration, pitch the campaign, run the campaign.
I mentioned SH and L&O b/c both are character-oriented shows that have "work" at their core. Not b/c I think Mad Men ought to follow a weekly formula.
― poxen, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
TBH of all Melissa's criticisms the 'it's really boring and I hate all the character' one is the one I relate most to because I've found that about things everyone else was head-over-heels about in the past. The other arguments feel like her criticising it for not being something it's not trying to be, and I think the writers have valid reasons for not trying.
Peggy and Don's relationship is totally antagonistic but at the same time is kinda the way things work in real work environments - employee does all the work, boss puts a bit of dressing on it and gets all the credit, employee gets disgruntled. It's kinda parallel to Pete/Roger, except that you know Don actually respects Peggy in some way and Roger is genuinely useless whereas Don actually contributes something. And Peggy is less of an entitled dick than Pete.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:31 (eleven years ago) link
isn't this the same argument everyone else is having about Girls and race?
I think there are merits on both sides. I don't expect all entertainment to answer to all needs of every segment of society. But sometimes I expect more, too. It's odd that Star Trek: TOS managed to be integrated and not make a big deal out of it, I guess since it wasn't saddled with having to exist in the real world of its time.
― akm, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
uh TOS made a VERY BIG DEAL out of it. First interracial kiss etc
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
see also: "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", numerous references to 20th century racism (Nazi planet, "Space Seed", etc.)
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:48 (eleven years ago) link
This idealized version of Mad Men that you are all describing sounds absolutely terrible.
― Darin, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
I was agreeing with contenderizer's statement that "the problem is that the show doesn't devote much time to the day-to-day advertising work that sustains the company".
contenderizer only meant this was a problem in the context of evaluating how well Peggy (and others) actually are at their jobs, not that it was a problem in terms of the show itself. which I thought he made clear.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
er well = good
I'm curious as to what the "idealized version" of Mad Men anyone is describing is.
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy is black and owns and insurance company that solves advertising-related crimes every week
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
roger sterling plays the janitor, who barfs at inappropriate moments
carries a bucket of sawdust.
― jed_, Friday, 27 April 2012 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
well, i assume an idealized version involves the show taking on issues of race and people of colour in a more head-on manner as well as dealing with a more successful female copywriter character to better reflect a specific part of reality. nothing wrong with wanting that, mind. though i'd imagine you'd hope they did it in a more entertaining fashion that weiner and his writing staff.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:23 (eleven years ago) link
To me 'idealized' as a pejorative though implies that I want the show to be American Dreams or something that is generally softer and kinder to the time period. Which couldn't be further from what I want.
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
my impressions is we were discussing "idealized" in the sense of what version of the show would most satisfy you.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I'd like to know why that "sounds terrible" then.
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
I'd keep Roger barfing if it helps.
― Melissa W, Friday, 27 April 2012 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think it sounds terrible, though it would most definitely be a minefield that could get very terrible, very quickly.
It's not this show, though.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
can't believe nobody's pulled up that roger barfing gif yet btw.
is there anything on this show that ISN'T an anigif
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:37 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but barfing was og iirc
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
with the weird dance everyone was was doing in the background
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:53 (eleven years ago) link
what interests me is seeing the characters talk through ad campaigns, have a moment of inspiration, pitch the campaign, run the campaign.
while this is fine - most campaigns don't go this smoothly. insert after "pitch the campaign", "get shot down by client, come up with even more inspired concept, get shot down, present a safe, uninspired pile, run campaign."
which is more similar to what we were seeing with those fucking beans!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:57 (eleven years ago) link
it seems the AMC series "The Pitch" is gonna scratch that itch
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:58 (eleven years ago) link
well, i live that, so... :S
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 27 April 2012 23:59 (eleven years ago) link
not heard of the Pitch tho, will check 'er out.
It's not started yet. They just had a preview episode on a few weeks back. Reality series about ad agencies (or teams of ad men or whatever) pitching.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Saturday, 28 April 2012 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
it's no fun if it's reali want good scripting
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 29 April 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
"the two of us in the same room, looking at each other every once in a while"
― johnny crunch, Monday, 30 April 2012 02:43 (eleven years ago) link
would hang out with sally draper and roger sterling
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 30 April 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
lmao at homegirl pretending to like fish rite there
― arsenio and old ma$e (m bison), Monday, 30 April 2012 02:50 (eleven years ago) link
this ep owns
Hope all these Twin Peaks homages (at least in terms of casting) lead to something...
― ryan, Monday, 30 April 2012 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
loljewham
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
smh @ roger
who all was on twin peaks?
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
lol'd p hard @ 'interesting bowls' in the heinz pitch
― johnny crunch, Monday, 30 April 2012 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
Ken's dad & the girl Don strangled a few eps back
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
I was happy to see creepy Glen! Telling her to check out the Loving Spoonful! Answering the phone naked, with his winter coat on!
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:09 (eleven years ago) link
I love creepy Glen!
"How's the city?""Dirty."
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 30 April 2012 03:12 (eleven years ago) link
oh that's the weird kid from the suburbs? i didn't realize that. hahaha
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:14 (eleven years ago) link
what was megan's original ambition? to act?
― supreme sundae (reddening), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
never really been revealed
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
yes "acting" but that's probably a metaphor or some shit
pls let it be "lead québécois uprising"
― arsenio and old ma$e (m bison), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
goddamn autocorrect actually helping me look fancy
― arsenio and old ma$e (m bison), Monday, 30 April 2012 03:30 (eleven years ago) link
She moved to ny to act.
― dan selzer, Monday, 30 April 2012 03:56 (eleven years ago) link
Great episode. Tableau at the end of the awards dinner was awesome.
― s.clover, Monday, 30 April 2012 03:58 (eleven years ago) link
Just realized that was Julia Ormond.
― LaMonte, Monday, 30 April 2012 04:02 (eleven years ago) link
!!!
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Monday, 30 April 2012 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
when megan first explains her idea for the heinz thing she really acts like peggy (in season 1)
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 30 April 2012 04:24 (eleven years ago) link
I couldn't get a read on how Megan felt during Peggy's congratulations. It sort of felt like "uh, thanks."
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 30 April 2012 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
I figured it was her feeling a little unsure how to take it, as though maybe she felt semi-guilty for accomplishing something via Don even if it really was all her. Maybe I'm just reading into her dad's speech though.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Monday, 30 April 2012 04:33 (eleven years ago) link
peggy: "this is as good as this job gets!"
could be that megan is thinking, really? this is as good as it gets? get me the hell out of here!
i mean, maybe she doesn't actually want to work in advertising
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 30 April 2012 04:49 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, that's what I got out of it. "ok, we landed a pitch for beans. great. why does everybody even care."
― s.clover, Monday, 30 April 2012 04:53 (eleven years ago) link
new Bobby looks *younger* than previous Bobby. Eventually Bobby Draper will just be played by a muppet and voiced by Frank Oz.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 30 April 2012 05:23 (eleven years ago) link
they've got to be setting roger up for a hard fall, economically speaking -- the first few episodes see him paying off everybody for favors, and tonight we hear he's still financially supporting his first family, and didn't jane say something last week about how the divorce was going to be difficult/contentious, money-wise?
― supreme sundae (reddening), Monday, 30 April 2012 05:59 (eleven years ago) link
hard fall onto the pavement from the window u mean
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 30 April 2012 06:00 (eleven years ago) link
Megan's commie dad is gonna kill Roger c'mon
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Monday, 30 April 2012 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
i wonder if matthew weiner has someone on staff who combs through social media every week and says "now they're all saying it'll be roger who jumps out the window!" and matthew weiner laughs and gets out the show bible and changes it to, like, harry or something
― supreme sundae (reddening), Monday, 30 April 2012 06:19 (eleven years ago) link
INT: DON AND MEGAN'S APARTMENT
BOBBY runs towards the balcony and slips on his own toy, falling to his death. DON looks on, unconcerned.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Monday, 30 April 2012 06:20 (eleven years ago) link
There was an author on The Daily Show the other night named Robert Draper, who was probably roughly the age fictional "Bobby Draper" would've been now. I pretended it was him the whole interview.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 30 April 2012 06:25 (eleven years ago) link
That was an understatedly masterful episode. Roger and Sally were just delightful together.
Hah, I thought it was the same actress who plays Lane's wife at first.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 April 2012 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
post-LSD Roger is a hoot. I was wondering if he was going to go back to Mona, seems like that was kind of a "thing" for that generation, marrying the same person multiple times (cf Liz Taylor etc)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 April 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
"They make dishes. and napalm"
would watch the Roger Sally show.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 30 April 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
It never occurred to me that Roger would be really good with kids, but of course he would.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 April 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
he is one.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 30 April 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
Roger's awesome. Also, Leland Palmer!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 30 April 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
Ray Wise was great. Totally deflated Don. Seems to be becoming more and more apparent that Don's been coasting professionally for the last couple of years.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 April 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't Bert make a similar comment re: biting the hand that feeds...? can't remember
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 April 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I thought at the time that Bert actually quit the company because of that ad.
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Monday, 30 April 2012 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but it's the WHY exactly Bert was pissed that I can't remember (something about Don putting his own name on it, rather than the firm's?)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 April 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
think it may have been the opposite, he put the firm's name on it and published it but didn't run it by anyone else?
― dmr, Monday, 30 April 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
i sort of want to attack Ray Wise and i have no idea why.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
I've been looking for this clip from Robocop, where the bad guys are all blowing up cars with futuristic rocket guns and Ray is hanging out doing coke in the midst of all these explosions with the dad from That 70s Show. Sadly, it's not on youtube...
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
It was. I wanted it to end on that, but then the actual ending was fun.
I liked it when Don said to Roger "People who haven't taken LSD have also had that insight" as a nod to Roger going on about his trip all the time.
― Alba, Monday, 30 April 2012 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
i didn't enjoy the previous week's episode so much as everyone else seemed to, but this was in top form!
i couldn't figure out what megan was having misgiving about after landing the pitch, either. obviously though people are expecting her to follow the path peggy blazed and her gut is telling her to turn her back on it, for some reason. which will confuse and probably infuriate don.
― phantompenguin, Monday, 30 April 2012 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
Just discovered that John Slattery is only a year older than Johnny Depp!
― Alba, Monday, 30 April 2012 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
i fucking hate glen. worst nepotism-based casting decision since godfather 3.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Monday, 30 April 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
Slattery doesn't look much different from when he was on Ed, I don't think. I guess they both stopped aging at different times. xpost
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Monday, 30 April 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
i was struck by how old roger looked in the scene where he was flirting with megan's mom. maybe that's just me.
― phantompenguin, Monday, 30 April 2012 23:21 (eleven years ago) link
don's innovation on megan's pitch is that he includes the child and description of the child in each scene - it reminded me of the kid in the cage in his earlier commercial. something to unpack about don + childhood probably
also love how the wife of the heinz guy starts to convince him at the dinner ('that's exactly what you wanted...') and kinda betrays that she's maybe much more involved in the business than she lets on
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 00:43 (eleven years ago) link
peggy: "we don't need a piece of paper" from the city halls keeping us tied and true. my old man. keeping away my blues.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
oh man, this episode is making me giggle, totally breaking my balls here
― mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:02 (eleven years ago) link
this was a great episode, but peggy is making less and less sense to me as a character this season
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:55 (eleven years ago) link
i mean to say, making less and less sense as a character to me this season
or is that, making less and less sense as a character this season to me
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:56 (eleven years ago) link
or perhaps, to me, peggy is making less and less sense as a character this season
yeah, i was kinda under the impression she wasn't so happy in her relationship. then she got all excited for his proposal? message: all girls want to be married at heart, even peggy?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
She realized giving tuggers to totall strangers wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:00 (eleven years ago) link
but it wasn't a proposal.
she seemed to be bummed out at first about him not proposing, then got used to the idea.
classic misdirection btw: i assumed that joan would be wrong (since she's referring to an increasingly obsolete code of gendered communication) and that abe would be breaking up with peggy. but turns out joan was half-right.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:05 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:06 (eleven years ago) link
she still got excited + all dressed up
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:09 (eleven years ago) link
I was cracking up at Peggy in that scene, definitely was expecting her to get dumped with that huge smile on her face.
"You still wanna eat?""...I do"
― sleepingbag, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:15 (eleven years ago) link
also lol at Peggy's "someone broke up with you?" to Joan
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:34 (eleven years ago) link
the writing in this episode was great.
peggy's mother's face at abe saying that peggy had made a ham "my favourite" and the subsequent confrontation at the end with peggy's mother was very clever the way it switched your sympathies.
megan's conversation at the awards ceremony with her father was also great.
several other great scenes which i'm blanking on.
i love julia ormond. i hope she's in it more.
― jed_, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:44 (eleven years ago) link
although the peggy not-being-proposed-to scene felt a bit forced the following scene with peggy and joan was very touching.
― jed_, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:46 (eleven years ago) link
Kinda nice to see Mona again.
― LaMonte, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:46 (eleven years ago) link
What about Pete! I had just commented on how missing he was in this episode when he shows up and has that brilliant exchange with Emile. Harry also barely made the cut, but got to show up and be an ass for 20 seconds.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
lol forgot about Harry finishing the story
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:49 (eleven years ago) link
pete's scene was great and unusually self-aware
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
has that brilliant exchange with Emile.
i wasn't convinced. pete just wouldn't have the balls to do this.
― jed_, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
roger being so fun with sally and then destroying her innocence was v heartbreaking
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
he would if the person was of no consequence to him professionally xpost
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
i'm watching the eames documentary and this pic made me flash back to peggy on the honda scooter:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YCiU623tb04/SoIhqiV-HgI/AAAAAAAABis/XvRKPGxT5ao/s400/Charels+Ray+Eames+on+motorcycle.jpg
― Sgt. Dee Dee The Brass Cupcake McCall (get bent), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
also i wonder how much Sally is going to see this season by looking for a bathroom and opening the wrong door
― GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
Tried watching the pitch.Fuck all these people
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
Ha they're trying to get mac lethal for a subway breakfast commercial!
― "in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 03:13 (eleven years ago) link
One of the best episode ending lines.
― mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
I laughed at the Pete greeting Sally moment at the awards dinner - he does like them young, but that young?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:05 (eleven years ago) link
So I guess Megan is gonna quit her job at some point
― silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:21 (eleven years ago) link
Megan's dad is a great character
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
What about Pete! I had just commented on how missing he was in this episode when he shows up and has that brilliant exchange with Emile.
yeah, loved this. good rebuttal to my earlier kvetching about how pete seems at though he would suck at his job. demonstrated that he's a gifted flatterer.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:45 (eleven years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Monday, April 30, 2012 7:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― mh, Monday, April 30, 2012 8:29 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm, the both of you
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
i think your judgment is clouded by your general loathing of him
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
undoubtedly true
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:50 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, April 30, 2012 6:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think she makes sense as a character. she's smart & ambitious, has a strong sense of her value as a thinker and doer, but is still rather insecure about her looks and place in the world. though she refuses to be bound by expectations, she can't help but see herself as "no prize" in relation to the likes of joan and megan.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:51 (eleven years ago) link
her response to Megan at the office celebration of the Heinz success was odd, and i questioned her sincerity.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
That was just a weird exchange from both ends.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:57 (eleven years ago) link
I can see her wanting to feel that way, and if she truly does, then she's way more saintly than anyone else on the show.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:58 (eleven years ago) link
I think she was sincere. I think the easy/lazy idea is that she's jealous of Megan, that Megan's lucky because she's getting by due to Don, that she'll get ahead before her etc etc. But I think the writers give Peggy more credit than that. She's too smart. She sees how hard Megan works and how Megan seeks her advice and approval, and she acknowledges that the work is good, or at least good enough. So I think she's sincere in being happy for her. If there is any threat of being replaced, by Megan or by Ginsburg, I don't think she senses it. She's too caught up in her own work and Abe.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:01 (eleven years ago) link
it was an odd scene. i didn't doubt peggy's sincerity, but there was something awkward about her declaration of selfless solidarity, and i didn't get why megan seemed so troubled by her moment of triumph.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:03 (eleven years ago) link
or maybe, esp. with the recent Abe interactions, she's feeling that she needs to have a life outside of the office and that world? The ending line, "this is as good at this job gets" was totally credible.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:04 (eleven years ago) link
I think Megan seemed troubled because having a great idea about how to sell beans was ultimately not really that satisfying and it left her questioning whether she actually wants a career in advertising
― silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:06 (eleven years ago) link
The ending line, "this is as good at this job gets" was totally credible.
yeah, that was peggy's best moment in this episode
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:07 (eleven years ago) link
I mean, the exchange between Megan and her father fills in a lot of gaps about Megan's personality, she was obviously raised to be ambitious. And if this is "as good as it gets", then maybe she wants something more.
xp to myself
― silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:09 (eleven years ago) link
good point! sets up her father scolding her for giving up her own dreams to fit in with don's life. annoyed at myself for not catching that.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:09 (eleven years ago) link
now that she is being written as more than just Don's manic pixie dream girl, I'm liking Megan a lot more.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:10 (eleven years ago) link
maybe megan decides to quit advertising and become an actress, and then she's cast as the wife of the lead character in a television drama about the world of advertising.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:10 (eleven years ago) link
the beans pitch again raised a question that's come up several times itt: are SCDP really all that great at what they do? cuz while i could definitely see that ad appearing on TV, it didn't exactly blow me away with its brilliance.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:11 (eleven years ago) link
the client liked it, that's pretty much what mattered.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:12 (eleven years ago) link
I suspend my disbelief for that kind of stuff because you're never gonna have a tv show come up with all these brilliant advertising ideas. Basically if they say it's brilliant on the show I just assume it is for the purposes of the story.
― silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:15 (eleven years ago) link
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 12:11 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
but this is ALWAYS the problem when fiction tries to represent the creative process: the supposed "great novel" or "great symphony" the leader character is preparing is rarely any good. you have to suspend disbelief.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i know. mad men doesn't make a great case for SCDP as a brilliant, pioneering ad powerhouse, imo. not a criticism of the show.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:17 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's been made clear many times that they are not on the cutting edge. They are competent and occasionally have a flash of genius/inspiration, and people like Ginsburg think they have potential (or he was just flattering them), but they're not DDB.
That's why all the talk above about whether Peggy is good seems weird to me. She's good enough for that job. Don is good enough for the job. They're both competent and occasionally really good. But if they were really great they'd be more successful. And I don't think the show has been about the quality of the work since like Season 1.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:17 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:18 (eleven years ago) link
the easy way to do it would be to just straight rip off the most brilliant advertising ideas of yesteryear. perhaps its to their credit that they don't do this, but otoh, a little education in the history of the creative side of the business might be a nice fringe benefit.
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:18 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno. even recently it's been made clear that don's name carries weight in the ad world and that he has a mystique. although ginsburg was no doubt sucking up, he also seemed to be drawn to SCDP on the basis on don's name -- and he seemed carry a kind of awe for don, which--since ginsburg was coming from outside the ad world--means that don draper has to be a well-known guy by advertising standards.
in general i wish the show would shift the balance a bit from the soap-opera bits to the actual business of running an ad agency. i always liked that stuff and it's one of the things that made the show unique. too many TV shows that take place in a certain occupational milieu basically abandon their attention to that milieu after a shot while.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:26 (eleven years ago) link
Even if Don has been a genius in the past, it's clearly a plot point of this season that he's coasting.
I agree, I mean, I don't want THE PITCH, but it's been a season or two since any major drama revolved around advertising.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:47 (eleven years ago) link
adding weight to a point that's been made previously, he's drifting into roger's role, recognizer more than generator of brilliance
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:56 (eleven years ago) link
the easy way to do it would be to just straight rip off the most brilliant advertising ideas of yesteryear
"it's toasted"
(yes, i know)
― thomp, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:44 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy, Monday, April 30, 2012 8:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i know this is way upthread, but if theres one thing i cant stand its that this complex, interesting, multi-dimensional character is being expected to stand in for all women, & its what really grates abt the political arguments against this
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:48 (eleven years ago) link
anyway yeah loved this ep
and my first surreal conversion moment was definitely when january jones goes out in the back yard & shoots at the pigeons in s1
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:49 (eleven years ago) link
don's name carries weight in the ad world and that he has a mystique
Hard to say how much of this is to do with his talent, and how much with his gargantuan charisma.
I wonder if Roger was obliged to, er, return Marie's favour?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 10:57 (eleven years ago) link
srsly the way some of you come running to bat for this show the moment someone says something even half-critical about it makes community fanboys look reasonable
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 12:14 (eleven years ago) link
I think you guys are giving advertising too much credit.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:00 (eleven years ago) link
Like there is a Sgt. Pepper of advertising or something.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:04 (eleven years ago) link
I thought there was a direct parallel between Joan congratulating Peggy and saying that it was great she was moving in, without being engaged, and Peggy congratulating Megan. They both seemed really honest, but maybe both congratulators just wanted to really mean it?
― mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:29 (eleven years ago) link
It's the Purina Chuck Wagon tv commercial. The idea of the dog following the miniature covered wagon through the kitchen had its roots in Stockhausen's "Gesang der Jünglinge."
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah Peggy was really enthused, Megan just didn't care that much, or found the victory kinda hollow, because she's probably better than SCDP or for that matter advertising.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
well, and the fact that she could be delivering gold every meeting and people would dismiss it as "eh, boss's wife"
― mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:19 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, felt more like Megan is just stepping on egg shells (or whatever the appropriate folksy saying is) and that she is painfully self-aware of how others in the office see her and may be jealous. Hence also trying to pass off the idea to Don. But yeah Matt probably OTM and this is maybe a bit of her father coming through.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
xp but no one was doing that in the episode--she was actually being given proper and sincere credit and just wasn't feelin it
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
for some reason he was REALLY reminding me of Max Von Sydow in Hannah and Her Sisters
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
but no one was doing that in the episode
this struck me as very odd tbh. suddenly the place is a meritocracy?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
I mean, other than the actual client thinking it was Don and Don also doing the "you should shake her hand" thing
― mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
I loved Megan's dad's Sartre specs.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
I liked his subtly breaking Don's balls -- "Bobby is helping me refill my fountain pen"
Draper family 2, white carpet 0
― mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
Megan just didn't care that much, or found the victory kinda hollow, because she's probably better than SCDP or for that matter advertising.
I wouldn't necessarily say "better" but I think she's realizing advertising is not fulfilling for her in any way. She probably thought that since she'd been striking out in terms of getting acting work that she could get satisfaction from another ostensibly creative field but it hasn't worked out that way.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
i think stan said something at first, when he came back to his office. besides that, did we see anyone talking about it when don wasn't around?
― danny houellebecq (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
well, Peggy and Megan
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
and in that case it's clear Peggy knew it would be a total dick-move to be less than enthusiastic
tbf Joan knew it'd be a dick move to be less than enthusiastic about Peggy shacking up, too
― mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
yeah there were obvious parallels there
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy, Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:14 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
asking that a multi-dimensional character (is this really hyperbole or something to you??) be allowed to not represent all women isnt 'being a fanboy'
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
i realized while watching this that they've made stan way more likable than he was when he was first introduced. i like that dude now!
people are reading a lot more into how peggy congratulated megan than i did. i just thought her mind was elsewhere. it's easy to be nice when you're putting your competitiveness on the back burner while you deal with other stuff.
peggy puts too much stock into how events that should be personally significant will be perceived at large. it goes back to her obsession with being a modern, worldly city girl, and it's the same stuff with her looking to joan to tell her how to feel about moving in with abe.
― phantompenguin, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 04:08 (eleven years ago) link
Stan has definitely become much more appealing
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah he's funny.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
i love glen. he's like the loaded gun you see go in to the desk drawer in the 1st act.
― ♆ (gr8080), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder if there will ever be a Stan episode. Ginsberg has already had more character dev.
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
I quite like him in a comic relief position, a bit like a more knowing Kinsey.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
hmm yeah he does kinda have a similar role to Kinsey (who was also one-half of a "team" with Peggy)
gr8080 otm about Glen
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
glen and sally being phone pals is pretty great
― mh, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
LOVE Sally's "she tripped over one of Gene's toys"
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
that was totally a Betty Draper move! only Sally is even sneakier
― mh, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
loved the roger/sally stuff. thought this was a brilliant episode, they're just mining this surreal banality thing really fucking hard now and it's paying off bigtime.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
what's the age difference between sally/glen?
― phantompenguin, Thursday, 3 May 2012 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
3 or 4 years i think?
― sarahell, Thursday, 3 May 2012 03:28 (eleven years ago) link
creepily large
― arsenio and old ma$e (m bison), Thursday, 3 May 2012 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/vjdXz.jpg
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 3 May 2012 03:31 (eleven years ago) link
he talked about taking trig, so he's probably either a junior or senior in high school.
― sarahell, Thursday, 3 May 2012 03:32 (eleven years ago) link
he's probably 16, she's probably... 12?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 3 May 2012 07:29 (eleven years ago) link
re-watched this episode lol'd at Peggy's "I do" answer when asked if they should eat, irony escaped me the first time around
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 May 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
He's not known as Creepy Glen for nothing.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 3 May 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
http://maxgif.com/cS
― (Name Withheld to Avoid Hassle) (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 5 May 2012 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
Just watched the last episode-new fave!
Thought the whole Megan & Don bean pitch was very Samantha & Darren Stevens though.
Loved Pete!
― *tera, Sunday, 6 May 2012 06:02 (eleven years ago) link
The cast is on Inside the Actors Studio in a few weeks. Pretty stoked.
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss71/fabrickd/MMITAS.jpg
― Darin, Sunday, 6 May 2012 06:53 (eleven years ago) link
Hate that show but I'd probably watch that.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Sunday, 6 May 2012 07:02 (eleven years ago) link
who is the blonde on the right, january jones?
― Bad Company's Drummer's Daughter (stevie), Sunday, 6 May 2012 09:11 (eleven years ago) link
I guess, though I can't imagine her actually laughing.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Sunday, 6 May 2012 10:44 (eleven years ago) link
oh my god it's a gilmore girl??
― Mordy, Monday, 7 May 2012 02:09 (eleven years ago) link
fb update from a friend: "Rory Gilmore you get back to Star's Hollow right this instant! You'll always be too young for Pete Campbell."
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 7 May 2012 02:23 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think i love the beatles montage
― Mordy, Monday, 7 May 2012 03:04 (eleven years ago) link
Well, there goes the budget for the rest of the season...
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 7 May 2012 03:04 (eleven years ago) link
ginsberg bringing the lols.
― s.clover, Monday, 7 May 2012 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
campbell was incredible this ep
― johnny crunch, Monday, 7 May 2012 03:09 (eleven years ago) link
It's incredible that he was able to seduce a gilmore girl, yes.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 7 May 2012 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
Also, Mr. Belding really let himself go.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 7 May 2012 03:13 (eleven years ago) link
I think she was in a headspace to fuck anyone who didn't have two heads. Pete was lucky. And now he's a stalker. Except, wtf was that heart in the foggy glass? This has disaster written all over it, except this is Mad Men...so we'll probably never see anything about it ever again.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 7 May 2012 03:15 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy failing at the banter slayed me.
― polyphonic, Monday, 7 May 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
The Beatles montage at the end was a bit on the nose but I thought it worked pretty well.
― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Monday, 7 May 2012 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
pete in the hotel room also great.
― s.clover, Monday, 7 May 2012 03:31 (eleven years ago) link
Also "on the nose" endings are awesome and adorable. I like it when shows aren't afraid of artifice. That's always been a mad men strength.
― s.clover, Monday, 7 May 2012 03:36 (eleven years ago) link
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, May 7, 2012 3:13 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
was it really Mr. Belding?
― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Monday, 7 May 2012 03:39 (eleven years ago) link
i saw "mr. belding" references on twitter and not having seen much saved by the bell i thought it might be a reference to the ad agency foote, cone & belding.
also, i'm drunk right now; been gulping manhattans for two hours.
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 7 May 2012 06:13 (eleven years ago) link
http://i45.tinypic.com/wleh7b.jpg
Hey hey hey, what is going on here?
(The answer is apparently a lot of non-dairy whipped topping)
― C-L, Monday, 7 May 2012 06:24 (eleven years ago) link
poor peggy, she really got a lot of shit heaped on her this episode, with the "pizza house" phone calls and don calling her jealous and messing up the tag line with cool whip... the writers just did not want to let her win.
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 7 May 2012 06:28 (eleven years ago) link
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3mxesZ00r1qf4sbho1_500.gif
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 7 May 2012 07:06 (eleven years ago) link
lolled so hard at "pizza house"
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 07:10 (eleven years ago) link
and they are pushing the dramatic parallels thing so hard this season. i like it, but it's starting to feel overdone.
alexis bledel is really pretty, huh.
expect we'll be seeing trudy pretty soon, probably at the office.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:23 (eleven years ago) link
Context is everything, of course, but her face has a very 50s/60s quality about it that I'd never realized before.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 7 May 2012 09:27 (eleven years ago) link
also, don puts the needle down near the opening of the side but the song is at the end of the side!
i suspect this will become a major plot point.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:27 (eleven years ago) link
apparently bledel is actually 30 years old but no way does she look it.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:28 (eleven years ago) link
"i suspect this will become a major plot point."
Unlike Lost where that crazy version of RAW POWER where "Search & Destroy" is IN THE MIDDLE OF RECORD and they just never mentioned it again.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 7 May 2012 12:35 (eleven years ago) link
I thought they got this right actually...? when he lifts up the needle it's at the end of the record
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, and i thought he put the needle down more towards the middle/end. maybe i need to rewatch, but megan did make a big point about how don had to play this one particular song.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
loved the bit with the elevator
She said, "Start with this one," which the Beatles themselves did, as that was the first song they recorded for Revolver.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Monday, 7 May 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
lol @ Don telling Roger he doesn't want Megan to end up like her mother
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
I'm watching this episode pretending Roger is taking acid every time he's off-screen.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 7 May 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
Tomorrow Never Knows was a great closer to this episode, which takes place around october of 1966, so we see the 'early 60's' coming to a close here; basically, along with Roger's acid trip a while back, Megan laying on her back in the acting class, the elevator thing....it feels like shit is about to get weird, as I like to imagine everything did the second 1967 rolled around.
100% love Megan now btw.
― akm, Monday, 7 May 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
The Beatles thing was so cool. Maybe the fading into the other stuff was kinda eh but it's so great that they were looking for something to replace the Beatles, ended up with that 30-year-old song, and then when he finally hears them it's mind-bending sounds from The Future.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
The rain was foreboding enough...then that elevator thing. Totally over the top ominous foreshadowing but awesome.
And moments like Harry coming to the phone booth because Pete opened the door after they made eye contact then arguing over who initiated...that's why I watch Mad Men.
Regarding the Beatles...Don takes the record off halfway and walks out of the room. He's not impressed with the present/future? The music continued for everyone else.
― dan selzer, Monday, 7 May 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
this was awesome, biggest laugh of the episode for me
He's not impressed with the present/future? The music continued for everyone else.
last shot was of Don leaving the room. the music continued over the credits.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
and yeah, clearly turning his back on the new generation. He was raised in the 30s! His biggest dream was indoor plumbing lol
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
Well he also didn't take the acid. But I'm impressed that they're keeping him more than a one-dimensional fuddy duddy. He's clearly ambivalent about Megan's acting dream but he also seems to realize the respect it deserves.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
Makes me think of in the Zappa autobio how he characterized the music industry at the time: old out-of-touch dudes smoking cigars and saying "I don't know what this racket is, but it's what the kids love and it sells"
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
my reaction to the use of the Beatles went from incredulity --> lol of course, MONTAGE! pot smoking! okay this is a little obvious --> Don taking off the record = point made, perfect
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, this was great. such a perfect snapshot of guilty paranoia, trying so hard to seem "normal" that everything goes weird.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
joan's dismissal of megan was awesome too.
― s.clover, Monday, 7 May 2012 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
I think Joan is mostly otm about Megan and Don. I like the friendship that she has built up with Peggy this season.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
they have an interesting dynamic going on - Joan seems to acknowledge their natural affinity for one another, but otherwise the friendship seems driven by Peggy's need for advice/to spout off. Joan never comes to her about anything. She mentioned her (ex)husband only in passing for ex.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:29 (eleven years ago) link
Also the anecdote from "Easy Riders..." about studio execs in '67 wanting to "make movies about nothing, like that Blow-Up picture."
Which reminds me of Don being an Artfilm buff back in the early days (bonding with Bobbie Barrett over Hiroshima mon amour).
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
did people ever really eat cool whip straight? serious question.
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
Morbius to thred
uh every child of the 70s did that at some point, I'm sure
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
I mean it has a certain something, and i would lick the spoon after it was put on, like, pie or something, but not do the whipped cream can thing y'know?
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 7 May 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
One of my favorite parts of the episode was how many times the satellite photos of the Earth were mentioned. Can you imagine what it must have been like to see the planet as it really is for the first time? Maybe even more revelatory than the moon landing.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 7 May 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
And moments like Harry coming to the phone booth because Pete opened the door after they made eye contact then arguing over who initiated...that's why I watch Mad Men.yeah, this was great. such a perfect snapshot of guilty paranoia, trying so hard to seem "normal" that everything goes weird.― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, May 7, 2012 12:12 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this.
they kind of abandoned that thread. don should be having a ball at arthouses in 1966. but he's not.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
also this episode encouraged me to listen to revolver again after umpteen months/years (!). it's great, but i still usually have to skip over taxman.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
I was a child of the 80s and would frequently raid the fridge for cool whip.
This show has been on quite a run this season. the elevator shaft was, as they say, "on the nose," but as pointed out above I sorta love that about this show. and it was terrifying.
― ryan, Monday, 7 May 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
Really wish people would stop saying "on the nose" all the time. :/
― polyphonic, Monday, 7 May 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
feeling like the phrase 'on the nose' is kinda
― Mordy, Monday, 7 May 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
let's throw it under the bus
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
On the nose has jumped the shark.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 7 May 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
make no mistake, it's fundamentally past it's sell-by date
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
not liking "on the nose" is the new black
― polyphonic, Monday, 7 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
jumped the nose
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
Going forward, "on the nose" should be sunsetted.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Monday, 7 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
"When did music become so important?"
― dmr, Monday, 7 May 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
I lost track of who actually picked the faux-Beatles song suggested for the cologne ad, was it the client or someone at the agency?
Ginsburg's OTT reaction there was hilarious
I'm pretty sure it was the client? Ginsberg was otm.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it was the client
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
http://maxgif.com/2e9
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
there's a thread for that
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
― polyphonic, Monday, May 7, 2012 6:22 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ok from now on we'll just say "super-duper obvious"
― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Monday, 7 May 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
new ILM board description
― Roz, Monday, 7 May 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
the scene with pete's new love interest drawing the heart on the window was sort of ludicrous i thought, but i guess the sentimentality and generally fanciful nature of the show means it can carry this kind of thing. i'm still really loving the way it's playing to its strengths this season, the best thing about mad men has always been how emotional it is.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Monday, 7 May 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
I guess the drawing the heart could be read as sentimental and corny but I thought it was kinda vicious actually. like she was just toying with him. I don't think she has any intention of getting together with him, like, ever so why torture him. maybe I'm misreading it and she really has feelings for Pete but I don't really think so.
― dmr, Monday, 7 May 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
Joan never seems like she's *needed* anything from *anybody*.
― s.clover, Monday, 7 May 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
well, she's needed things from Roger
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
but yes it's not really in her character to express need
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
This interview with Bledel seems to make it clear she's toying with Pete:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/interrogation/2012/05/gilmore_girls_actress_alexis_bledel_on_mad_men_interviewed_.html
― ryan, Monday, 7 May 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
I knew it would be Tomorrow Never Knows, and when I clocked I was so excited to hear it in the context of Mad Men that Don taking the record out of the sleeve and cuing up the needle seemed excruciatingly long. When it finally came on, the song has rarely sounded as vital to me. Very well done.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 7 May 2012 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
How Weiner got "Tomorrow Never Knows":
Mr. Weiner said he had been trying “for a few years” to get different Beatles songs onto “Mad Men,” but had been rejected by Apple Corps in the past.To win the company’s approval in this case, Mr. Weiner said, “I had to do a couple things that I don’t like doing, which is share my story line and share my pages.” He added that he received the approval from Apple Corps last fall, about a month before filming started on the episode.
To win the company’s approval in this case, Mr. Weiner said, “I had to do a couple things that I don’t like doing, which is share my story line and share my pages.” He added that he received the approval from Apple Corps last fall, about a month before filming started on the episode.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:23 (eleven years ago) link
Never watched The Gilmore Girls but was blown away by Alexi Bledel's screen presence in this episode (not just flim-flam for fancying the pants off her, I don't think).
Loved the Harry/Pete phonebooth thing
Tomorrow Never Knows fell a little flat for me.
After all these years, Beatles songs are cropping up here and there – mid-period ones at least (I'm Looking Through You in that Ricky Gervais film Ghost Town, Norwegian Wood in the same and now this)
It would have been funny if he'd put on Yellow Submarine by mistake and really dug it.
― Alba, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:24 (eleven years ago) link
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 23:27 (eleven years ago) link
Don't really buy Pete being hip enough to be reading Crying of Lot 49 in hardcover in '66.
― Stevie T, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
whoah what I missed that
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
maybe ken told him to buy it?
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 7 May 2012 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3mx06CD7W1qj441oo1_1280.pngFelt a bit Anthony Soprano being into Sartre.
― Stevie T, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:33 (eleven years ago) link
Pete likes to keep up.
I thought his Head skis looked rather modern, but that's probably just a reflection of the kind of skis my half-sisters' grandmother had rattling around her cupboards.
― Alba, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
...with the joneses.
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 7 May 2012 23:37 (eleven years ago) link
felt a bit of bait and switch with the "crying of lot 49" thing -- was hoping Howard and his wife were part of some cult and would tie back into Pete's L.A. experience with the aerospace company.
― sarahell, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
Hmmm.. V. had already been nominated for the national book award. CoL49 got big ticket reviews in that year (e.g. http://cl49.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Reviews_of_The_Crying_of_Lot_49 ), but yes, I'd imagine Pete wouldn't necessarily be reading it so close to the publication date. On the other hand, I don't really know how much promotion and hype it had at the time.
― s.clover, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
he does look a little skeptical in that pic.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
it should have ended on this awesomeness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUrGfo-bJo8
does this season need some Dick Whitman action? probably best to let that one simmer but i do miss it, surprisingly. I'm sure it's coming.
― jed_, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE IS. DO YOU KNOW WHERE ABE IS?
― mh, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
do pete and peggy have a child together living with her mother or have i completely imagined this?
― jed_, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
You saw her sister's child at the Mom's; she gave her baby away.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
ah cool, thanks.
― jed_, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:21 (eleven years ago) link
SAVE IT FOR YOUR CONVENTION WHORES
― mh, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
i will, thanks.
― jed_, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:30 (eleven years ago) link
is this the end of Don and Megan?
sorry, giving by play-by-play 23 hours late
― mh, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:30 (eleven years ago) link
'i was was raised in the '30s. my dream was indoor plumbing.'
― mh, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:49 (eleven years ago) link
I don't get that vibe. I just think Don's in a place he's never been before, meaning that he's not calling the shots and he might be okay with that.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
love Pete's narcissism when Harry comes into his office to tell him about Megan. juicy office gossip doesn't really affect him - doesn't give a fuck!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
I think I meant the Don/Megan advertising entity. Peggy sure wasn't up to the chemistry
― mh, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 02:39 (eleven years ago) link
Logical if boring solution woulda been to keep Megan on part time for the occasional pitch. She'll still he doing the performances at dinners with the clients, unless she starts moving ahead and being to tired to bother, which would certainly cause some tension w don
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 02:45 (eleven years ago) link
super-dumb to not ask Megan to still do the pitch, it's an acting gig
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
The part where Ginsburg was asking Megan if hey gave you clothes when you have a role seemed unusually meta for the show.
― LaMonte, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:09 (eleven years ago) link
it was noteworthy that she didn't even have to put in her two weeks. usually when you quit and they tell you to go home on the same day, it means you've burned your bridges. the fact that don sent her home at lunch and she didn't get to stick around for the perfunctory cake... ouch. i think you guys may be overstating don's goodwill re megan leaving.
― get wolves (get bent), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:12 (eleven years ago) link
i did notice that, but i didn't think it was because she burned any bridges or anything.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:16 (eleven years ago) link
figured it was more like opening the bird cage door and just letting her go!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
peggy made the point very clearly that don's nowhere near as sanguine about megan's choices as he lets on. peggy might be wrong, of course, but i get the feeling she isn't. don's trying awful damn hard to be the/a good guy, to respond pleasantly to his loss of control, but he's anything but happy about it.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:24 (eleven years ago) link
Touré @Toure
It cost Mad Men $250k to use the Beatles' “Tomorrow Never Knows.” Lionsgate: it was the most expensive music deal the studio has ever made.
― the minister of RAILWAYS (reddening), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:44 (eleven years ago) link
yah: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/07/how-mad-men-landed-the-beatles-all-you-need-is-love-and-250000/
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:45 (eleven years ago) link
Asked what he would have done if Apple Corps had once again said no, Mr. Weiner replied: “I don’t know. I would have changed the story.”
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:50 (eleven years ago) link
Aside from songs that have been played in the occasional commercial or the Beatles cartoon series that was shown on ABC in the 1960s, the use of “Tomorrow Never Knows” on “Mad Men” is likely one of the only times that a Beatles track has been used in a TV show, music and advertising executives say.
"all you need is love" was in the final episode of the prisoner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2MIvUx9uiQ
― get wolves (get bent), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:51 (eleven years ago) link
british though
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:52 (eleven years ago) link
it WAS really fun (in a fourth-wall-breaking way) to go through that prolonged moment of anticipation where you're like "no way are they going to actually play it, but look he's putting the record on the turntable and everything, surely they'll have to cut to black or...? HOLY SHIT THEY'RE ACTUALLY PLAYING IT" but still, that's a bundle of money. otoh i think the season as a whole has been stellar so far, i don't know that infusing the money into the rest of the episodes would've made them even better than they already were.
― the minister of RAILWAYS (reddening), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:54 (eleven years ago) link
this reminded me: speaking about mad men being too "on the nose," wasn't there an early episode where roger literally gave joan a birdcage while asking her to be his kept mistress?
― the minister of RAILWAYS (reddening), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
yeah beatles license doesn't become ridiculously expensive until much later (same is true of licensing in general, as anyone who's tried to watch wkrp lately can tell you). obv prices went up across the board but part of me wonders if the nike 'revolution' fiasco didn't play a role in making beatles song permissions and licensing costs so prohibitory, for awhile at least. zeppelin famously were the same way (and in many ways still are - no zep or beatles on spotify), not allowing 'dazed and confused' for dazed and confused for example, but increasingly they've been much more willing to grant permission, if the price is right.
― balls, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:01 (eleven years ago) link
"Rock and Roll" was suppsed to be the credits music for D & C--Page signed off, but Plant said no.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:04 (eleven years ago) link
there was that video of Jack Black and the kids begging LZ to let them use "Immigrant Song" for School of Rock.
my favourite music rights story is Louis CK getting The Who.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:07 (eleven years ago) link
well the who is obv not too hard to get but w/ the budgets he's working w/ it is amazing he pulled that off, esp such a lengthy excerpt
― balls, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i think he paid 7,000 for what would normally cost 150,000.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:15 (eleven years ago) link
as anyone who's tried to watch wkrp lately can tell you
yeah i actually have taped-off-air boots of that show because i can't stand the library music or 3rd-tier shit they've picked to replace the original music cues.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:20 (eleven years ago) link
"it was noteworthy that she didn't even have to put in her two weeks. usually when you quit and they tell you to go home on the same day, it means you've burned your bridges. the fact that don sent her home at lunch and she didn't get to stick around for the perfunctory cake... ouch. i think you guys may be overstating don's goodwill re megan leaving."
Don was totally turned on when Megan turned things around with Heinz, now that she left the agency for something that she always wanted to do since she was a little girl (eye roll) I think he is more than disappointed. Interesting to see how he'll deal. Will he still respect her?
Was a huge GG fan and loved seeing Alexis Bledel but thought she came off just a bit too Rory. It's her voice and how she still holds her body and that heart! It was the heart!!!
― *tera, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 09:50 (eleven years ago) link
getting down to the important matters - had there been colour photos of earth from space in 1966?
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:08 (eleven years ago) link
Ha, yep, he sent a few episodes to Townshend who was impressed enough to only charge a tiny fraction of what he'd normally get.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:25 (eleven years ago) link
That has to do with licensing for sale rather than broadcast, I think. It was why Freaks and Geeks took a few years to appear on DVD, and the Wrecking Crew doc has been held up in licensing limbo for a while, too. Hopefully Weiner & co. have already gotten this sorted out for the season 5 DVD.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:29 (eleven years ago) link
I like that Don wasn't able to make it all the way through Tomorrow Never Knows. He is officially not with it anymore, and Megan leaving is only gonna make his job that much harder. He used to make a lot more effort to keep up with things. Maybe Roger's going to try to get him to try lsd.
― silverfish, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:33 (eleven years ago) link
Don seemed really old in this last episode, like painfully old.
― *tera, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:45 (eleven years ago) link
i think he's worried he might not be faithful without her around him as often.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
Or that she might not be faithful to him. They don't have very much in common outside of work, I could see her falling for some bohemian theater type now that the novelty of the advertising world has worn off.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I thought the set-up of don not knowing where she was at least introduced the possibility he could be on the receiving end of some infidelity this time around, obv he was with Betty but that was more her finally cheating rather than pre-empting him.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
Pete's committing serial infidelity and is reading Thomas Pynchon. Don's sad-eyed, monogamous, and demonstrates a total lack of interest in Revolver. Weird, huh?
― America's Mobile, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
Hopefully Weiner & co. have already gotten this sorted out for the season 5 DVD.
no, for the DVD edition the beatles track is replaced by "mrs. brown you've got a lovely daughter"
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
given that he is a serial cheater, i was surprised that he wasn't more suspicious, but maybe he was just putting on a good front.
― rayuela, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
ya I was expecting explode-y Don, maybe he's learned a lesson from their big fight.
I liked when Peggy told Don to shut up.
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy and Don fighting like an old married couple was o_0
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
The fever dream episode at least implied that he might have cheated on Megan no? When the woman came into his apartment she said they had done it a couple of months previously iirc - granted she was a hallucination, but maybe that part was true?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
she was referring to a much earlier incident, when he'd been married to Betty, iirc
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:19 (eleven years ago) link
The elevator bit this ep was so awesome and random.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
And SYMBOLIC.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
i think don's putting on a hell of a front these days (and self-medicating to keep it up). the cracks give it away.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
if you were being kind you could say he's trying hard at marriage.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.ifc.com/fix/2012/05/reggie-watts-makes-music-with-jon-hamm
― dharunravir (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
It was funny when Alexis Bledel said "your irises are so blue and round"
― Number None, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
the best "world has changed" moment all season was when the lab lady told them they weren't allowed to smoke in the lab
― High powered Texas lawyer (symsymsym), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 02:00 (eleven years ago) link
so i am probably the only person who had no idea cool whip was diary free, and is completely weirded out by this? also Megan jumping ship to become an actress is the first is let down of the series for me.
― JacobSanders, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
which one is a bigger deal for you tho
― goole, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 02:54 (eleven years ago) link
I'm in here with my eyes covered because I'm 4 episodes behind but I just want to say:
LOL DON DRAPER IN A PLAID SPORT COAT LOLOLOL
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 02:57 (eleven years ago) link
That coat gave me nightmares.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 03:09 (eleven years ago) link
so sad
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
Megan is a disappointment because i have enjoyed seeing don happy and sort of growing with a lady, now i feel he will go by the wayside, i guess i thought she could save him in a way. also giving up a real job for a childhood dream while ignoring the partnership she had been creating with don just seems juvenile, after she worked so hard to have the job. but yeah don was respectable, still
― JacobSanders, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
oh no way, i thought they telegraphed that having your wife as a coworker/subordinate in that atmosphere with so many crossed lines of obedience and obligation was a total minefield. i wouldn't work there either!
now they get to play with don feeling like his life's work has been insulted and he can't speak or even see that clearly. great!
― goole, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 05:03 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah megan quitting a) made me like her more because she isn't just living for don's pleasure and b) makes things more interesting.I def did not get why she was so overwrought w peggy and the creative peons
― sarahell, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 05:42 (eleven years ago) link
so we are to believe megan never really cared about working at scdp? that it was not only because her father reprimanded her about her true passion for acting (which is more admirable in the eyes of a marxist than advertising?) but that she had these deep seated resentments building in her? she was the one to pursue the job,i mean it was her idea.
― JacobSanders, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 07:30 (eleven years ago) link
It's actually quite funny watching Peggy being blindsided, confused and a bit butthurt by the revelation that working in advertising maybe isn't the most amazing thing a talented and bright girl might want to do.
Megan comes from an academic upper-middle class background from what I can see and watching that sit awkwardly with these overpriveleged vacuous commercial guys and scrappier types who have worked their way up from the bottom is a perspective we haven't really seen much of yet.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 09:35 (eleven years ago) link
It's also something you see in offices all over the place, how many people feel their academic and other talents are being wasted in even successful, highly-paid jobs? I say go Megan.
The conversation between Joan and Peggy about her was pretty illuminating as well, Joan didn't get Megan, and what Don sees in Megan, at all.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 09:37 (eleven years ago) link
No I think Joan understands both of their basic motivations pretty well (esp. Don's) but what I don't think that Joan understands or is interested in is copy-writing and why someone would or would not find it fulfilling work on a creative level.
"so we are to believe megan never really cared about working at scdp?"
No I think she cared about/was interested in the job until she actually did it and then she realized it wasn't what she wanted. And her father (not because he thought acting was more admirable, but more cause he's a shit disturber) just provided a reminder about her previous cares.
Weirdest sequence was Ginsburg complaining about her not having any money for lunch and owing him?!?! I'm still trying to parse this.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:34 (eleven years ago) link
stereotypically Jewish? I dunno, I had trouble w/ understanding that too.
― et tu, twinkletoes? (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:35 (eleven years ago) link
I think Megan's character is making sense... the birthday performance, the acting lessons, the maybe-pretend-angry chases around the house. I think she is a little too 'liberated' for stodgy-ol' Don, and I'm predicting the season's teaser poster (Don inna chair facing a naked mannequin) presages Betty chemo baldness & nude Megan onstage. Don is/will be "embarrassed" by her openness abt. sex, I think?
― et tu, twinkletoes? (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:38 (eleven years ago) link
Haha no I understood Ginsburg complaining about it! I'd complain about that! I didn't understand why she consistently didn't have any money?!
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:39 (eleven years ago) link
oh, I see. I hadn't even picked up on that – I was too amused by the interaction b/w two of my favorite characters.
― et tu, twinkletoes? (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:48 (eleven years ago) link
Forreals - $15 is a relatively small amount now, esp in NYC, but in 1966? I'd complain, too!
― Sauvignon Blanc Mange (B.L.A.M.), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:51 (eleven years ago) link
I like your take on the poster, Remy. We've already seen Megan embarass Don with her sexiness once.. Betty's cancer was supposed to be a false alarm though, no?
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:55 (eleven years ago) link
Betty's continued absence (albeit necessitated by JJ's pregnancy) and trips upstate w/ Henry and the fact that we didn't hear the all-clear from the oncologist leads me to believe she might be feigning wellness. (Even from him?)
― et tu, twinkletoes? (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:05 (eleven years ago) link
I can see that, though I do agree she's probably upstate a lot because of JJ's pregnancy.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:07 (eleven years ago) link
Megan is a princess
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:31 (eleven years ago) link
A princess who fronts Queen.
― Alba, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:41 (eleven years ago) link
megan not having any money = during the workday she operates within her own salary, which is pretty low. she could have a roll of bills from don everyday but doesn't. it think it was meant to show she really was trying to be a team player.
― goole, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:43 (eleven years ago) link
(an effort constantly stymied by don yanking her out of work all the time)
peggy saying "she's one of those girls who's good at everything" was p interesting
― goole, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
Either that or Don was the person who carried cash on him and she never put much thought into bringing money to work for things like lunch.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:56 (eleven years ago) link
hmm yeah those are opposing theories but both plausible!
― goole, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:59 (eleven years ago) link
OR THAT WAS HER PLAN ALL ALONG
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
lunch heist
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
this is OTM. think she nailed Don + Megan's relationship apart from the creative angle.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
Megan otm imo. They've been building her up through various performances (Zu Bee Zu, that last pitch with Don, even roleplaying w Don) and people in general being entranced with her as she is a natural performer or something. I think the show will definitely have her get into that world professionally, it's not just a dumb childhood dream, and good for her stepping aside when there are probably plenty of aspiring copyrighters that are not married to a wealthy Ad Exec that affords them the opportunity to pursue such a career.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
it's totally a dumb childhood dream, she's trying to break into a career that at best will offer her, given her current age, maybe a decade's worth of work.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
the odds that she's gonna leave Don seem pretty high to me
she doesn't respect what he does, he's going to get older and out of touch, he can't tie her to him with children - eventually she's going to just treat him like a piggybank and they're both going to resent the other
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:16 (eleven years ago) link
right, don't need to watch the rest of the season then
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
the miracle whip run-through with don & megan was so great, it was a real "mulholland drive audition" scene
good ref
― mh, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
haha well this show makes a habit out of confounding expectations so I could be totally wrong - at this point in the show though, the long-term chances of their marriage seem pretty slim to me
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
wait, they were taste-testing mayonnaise? gross.
― dmr, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
haha what's it called? cool whip.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:26 (eleven years ago) link
hey they're both the same color
― dmr, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
megan leaves don or don drives away megan; betty is sick and needs some sort of succor that weird hank can't provide her, don and betty arrive at some kind of understanding.
― twinkletoes (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:29 (eleven years ago) link
the phrase "weird hank" is kind of grossing me out
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
but otherwise sure I can see that
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRngTZUMjfeI3Q6-jQLNk5nvyghYesrHEbMt-FLOHBbQfXCmaaDqtCD8DmM6Q
― mh, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
Why would the ever prominently feature Betty again? People hate Betty.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
Oh right, that's how tv works.
lol @ "copyrighters"
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:06 (eleven years ago) link
I think they're setting us up for Don and Joan.
― America's Mobile, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
that will never happen. they're both too good looking for each other.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
I'm predicting the season's teaser poster (Don inna chair facing a naked mannequin) presages Betty chemo baldness & nude Megan onstage. Don is/will be "embarrassed" by her openness abt. sex, I think?
― et tu, twinkletoes? (remy bean), Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:38 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― America's Mobile, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:09 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
both u dudes are nuts!
― goole, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
yeah a) Betty doesn't have cancer (also chemo not particularly common or well-formulated in the mid-60s so wtf) and b) Don and Joan will never get together. Don doesn't want Roger's sloppy seconds, and Joan obviously is not into Don.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
the chemo formula for non-hodgkins from the '60s is basically the one used today, iirc
― remy bean, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
yeah wiki says late 60s
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think it's been indicated that megan "does not respect" what don does; it's simply that she doesn't derive any personal satisfaction from it.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
exactly
also lolz at shakey's prediction that she will fail at acting, which seems to be related to the weird compulsion in this thread to insist that all of the characters in this show are bad at their jobs
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
where did I say she would fail?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
well... you DID imply that she would only have a decade's worth of work. haha.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
that's a commentary of how shitty the industry is to actresses, not on her ability
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
ON how
She said failing at acting meant more to her than succeeding at advertising.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
success in acting seems pretty difficult to achieve even if you are really talented. I'm thinking that maybe Joan's prediction will come true despite neither Megan or Don really wanting it to.
― silverfish, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
well maybe Don wants it to a certain extent
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 10:32 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i do not hate betty
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
it's funny i remember an interview with Weiner where he seemed a little perplexed by the popular idea of Betty as villain. I guess he sees the show in a Renoir-esque "everyone has their reasons" way.
I think Betty is/was one of the more compelling creations of the show.
― ryan, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think they spend very much time showing us betty's "reasons"--or at least many of her scenes in recent seasons have been comic in nature, which make her more an object of fun than potential sympathy.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
It's funny thinking back to s1, when I hated Pete. Everyone has their reasons, yes, and some of them can do the Charleston.
― Alba, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
I am totally sympathetic to all the women in this patriarchal hell. I want to look after them all.
― Alba, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
A short history...
1946. The first photo (of any kind) is taken of earth from space.
In 1954, an Aerobee sounding rocket takes the first color pictures of Earth from space. Maddeningly, NASA publishes the mosaic as B/W so subsequent researchers just assumed that the rocket was loaded with b/w film. As far as I know, the color version didn't surface until 1999.
By 1966, American and Soviet astronauts had taken plenty of pictures from low earth orbit. Gemini 11 late in 1966 took pictures from 1300km up (the highest manned orbit ever excluding lunar flights), but they still wouldn't have been able to take a single-frame "earth in space" photo. Geosynchronous satellites were already orbiting and Lunar Orbiters were on their way, but there were no public plans plans to take a full-frame picture. Stewart Brand heard that there were rumors of photos, so he started running around selling buttons that said "Why haven't we seen a photograph of the whole Earth yet?" NASA finally decided that it would be a good p.r. move, so in August 1966 they instructed Lunar Orbiter 1 to take a single black and white picture of the Earth. Only that wasn't the first full-frame picture... the Soviets had already done so in May 1966 with Molniya I.
The first full-frame color picture did not come along until Sept. 1967 - taken by a defense department satellite called DODGE.
Apollo 8's famous "Earthrise" picture was taken in 1968 and the "Blue Marble" picture comes from 1972.
It's strange, because these pictures were such obvious p.r. moves that NASA continually bollixes up. Even now, picture taking is considered to be frivolous to some mission scientists. The recent Juno launch to Jupiter only had a camera added to it at the last minute to "facilitate education and public outreach. " As outrageous as it might seem, a camera was never in Juno's original design specs. Never forget that this is also the same organization that lost the original first generation Apollo 11 TV tapes.
― Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 10 May 2012 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/trekpizza.png
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 05:57 (eleven years ago) link
"I'm sorry, you can't smoke in here."
― Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 10 May 2012 06:55 (eleven years ago) link
RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE RORY GILMORE
― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 10 May 2012 11:07 (eleven years ago) link
The thing that threw me a bit in that episode was the shot of Don looking down the lift shaft, they really lingered on that and I found myself wondering where it was going.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 May 2012 11:17 (eleven years ago) link
it's totally a dumb childhood dream, she's trying to break into a career that at best will offer her, given her current age, maybe a decade's worth of work
so all female actors are murdered by the state at 35? even in the 60s this was hardly true.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:11 (eleven years ago) link
Megan really likes Don for the moment but iirc the only ref to Dick Whitman in the series so far is when she said "Nobody loves Dick Whitman. I love you – that's why I threw you a party."
― jed_, Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:47 (eleven years ago) link
I thought she said "I love Dick Whitman", but I'd need to watch that again.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:55 (eleven years ago) link
down
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:40 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks for that potted history, Elvis Telecom - fascinating.
― Alba, Thursday, 10 May 2012 13:41 (eleven years ago) link
even in the 60s, actresses past the age of 35 who got a lot of roles tended to have started much earlier than megan. she's starting late, in a career path that prizes youth and discards middle-aged women. I don't really see how this is arguable, particularly in film.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
The point, as it relates to the show at least, is less that she wants to be an actress and more that she doesn't get a kick out of working in advertising, and that seemingly every character except Stan couldn't really relate to that.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 May 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
no argument there
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
lots of people choose to do things they know they can omly do for 10 years or less: pro athletes, lingere models, united states president
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
get married
― goole, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
pro athletes, lingere models, united states president
in general these people are all worthy of derision imho
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
also, though it may not be tactful to say it, she's not necessarily thinking of acting as a career that must sustain her economically for the rest of her life
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
that's pretty obvious. enjoy your trophy wife Don!
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
enjoy your latest trophy wife Don!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think I'm watching the same show as you people.
― remy bean, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
Next season, they get a divorce and we follow Meghan to Los Angeles for the rest of the series. She bunks up with another struggling starlet and they change the name of the show to "Mad About Men".
― dan selzer, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:52 (eleven years ago) link
Then she gets all shrewish and marries Paul Reiser
― remy bean, Thursday, 10 May 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
Don hit the button but instead of an elevator they sent a metaphor
― dmr, Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:37 (eleven years ago) link
lol.
― Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
There was a brief namecheck a couple episodes back during Pete and Trudy's dinner party when everyone is talking about the Univ. of Texas tower sniper. Someone gets Charles Whitman's name incorrect and Don jumps in with "it's Whitman" in a rather obvious way.
― Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
enjoy your trophy wife Don!
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 10, 2012 12:24 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
why are you always so pissy about the characters on this show!
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
its not like he cheated on YOU shakey
lol he is especially pissy abt megan
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
Seriously, how is Megan a trophy wife.
― remy bean, Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
enjoy your TROPHY wife don *storms out of thread in tears*
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
xp - she is charming, attractive, and significantly younger than he is. She is obviously viewed by many of Don's peers and colleagues as a trophy wife.
― sarahell, Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:29 (eleven years ago) link
and yet she's bright and has interests and talents of her own... it's almost as if there's an interesting story about that
― goole, Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
it's true!
― sarahell, Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
jeez don't take it personally s1ocki
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
s1ocki is kinda the Megan of this thread
― sarahell, Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
it's true I don't like Megan. otoh she is probably the only (?) character on the show to not have done something overtly shitty to any of the other characters. (was gonna add Peggy but I suspect I'm forgetting something...?)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
This isn't really the show to dislike characters for doing shitty things. That's kind of its steez. Will say that Ken Cosgrove is probably the most well-adjusted, decent person around.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
ya all im saying is its weird to act like the characters in this show are ppl u know in real life and scold them for their indiscretions, esp weird that you are a big sopranos stan like i am shakey!
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
don't feel like I'm scolding anyone and yes this show is full of characters doing shitty things (Ken rode a female employee like a horse iirc)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
your tone is very scoldy!
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
and you once rode contenderizer like a horse iirc
he was asking for it
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
well it's true
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
― goole, Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:39 PM (35 minutes ago)
not sure how this and yets the idea that megan is a trophy wife for don. i assume that lots of young women married for their charm and looks by rich middle-aged men (i.e. "trophy wives") are bright and talented, with interests of their own. calling her that is a slam on don much more than it is on megan.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
I guess there is a perverse side of me that finds flawless characters like Megan (ie "one of those girls who's just good at everything") unsympathetic. When characters on the Sopranos would do something stupid like try to manage a rock band or open a massage parlor I could acknowledge that their actions were stupid while still sort of pulling for them because their desires and goals were born of a palpable and very human desperation. When someone like Megan does something stupid like decide to try and "make it" as an actress at 25 I just roll my eyes - it is a childish thing for her to do, and she's only able to do it because she has Don as a sugar daddy. It's not really a decision I respect or empathize with.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
it does make for good drama tho, and resolves the elephant-in-the-room issue of how she was going to function in the workplace next to Don.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
feel like these last few episodes (w/the fight at Howard Johnsons, the visit from her parents, her quitting) have really been about Don realizing that he married an actual person, not a trophy
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
it is a childish thing for her to do
Huh?
― Carrie Antwoord (jaymc), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
making a career choice based on a professed childhood dream ("ever since I was a little kid...")
it's pretty clear she's less and less what he bargained for - he liked how she was good with kids, but she doesn't want any of her own. she won't tolerate being bossed around and dominated like Betty did. and she's not into working in advertising. this spells doom for their marriage imho.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
OK, I don't see how it's a stupid idea, though, esp. if she's still only in her mid-20s.
― Carrie Antwoord (jaymc), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
what a disaster for their marriage
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
don't really know what i think of all the spur-of-the-moment sex happening in this season, now that i think of it
― goole, Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
she won't tolerate being bossed around and dominated like Betty did. and she's not into working in advertising. this spells doom for their marriage imho.
i didn't work out so great with Betty tho.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
i = it
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
am i the only one who sees a lot of vulnerability beneath meghan's surface? only everyone else thinks she's good at everything she does, i don't think she really believes that.
― It was you. Miming to Tenacious D. (stevie), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I get that. daddy's-little-girl anxiety.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
THESE ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE.
― Alba, Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:39 (eleven years ago) link
you're not a real people
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
xp - no, but nor are they completely one-dimensional. everything's open to interpretation.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 May 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
anytime don goes more than two or three episodes without callously and cruelly throwing a wrench in a personal relationship, i say he's doing good. so far this season, he's doing real good with megan! i hold out hope for a don who accepts megan as a "real person."
also i found megan's reaction to don being chill re: her decision to become an actor... odd. she was grateful to a degree that was probably practical/realistic, but perhaps unhealthy?
― phantompenguin, Friday, 11 May 2012 03:50 (eleven years ago) link
well, he's kind of a loaded gun. she was probably just glad he didn't freak out chase her around the apartment with a bat.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Friday, 11 May 2012 04:10 (eleven years ago) link
Megan does something stupid like decide to try and "make it" as an actress at 25 I just roll my eyes - it is a childish thing for her to do, and she's only able to do it because she has Don as a sugar daddy. It's not really a decision I respect or empathize with.
Could you elaborate more on why you don't respect this decision?
She's not exactly a lazy anti-work slob, so the Don as sugar daddy thing doesn't hold a lot of water for me. If she hadn't worked at the firm then yeah I'd get what you are saying. But this is a pretty well-informed decision, she and Don are married and they talked this through like adults, she has this awesome opportunity and she tried doing things the other way, etc.
The show seems to be structuring this as a legitimate thing she's doing, not just a stupid childish dream. Plus there are a number of things going for her: her husband is the head of an ad agency, she's already networked & showcased her talent with lots of people in that world via birthday song & that last TV ad pitch. Doesn't it seem somewhat likely that she would start showing up in SCDP TV ads or something similar?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 11 May 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
Doesn't it seem somewhat likely that she would start showing up in SCDP TV ads or something similar?
after explicitly turning down exactly that for Cool Whip in this episode? No, I don't think so. She doesn't want to be in ads, she wants to be on Broadway and in films.
She'd been previously rejected (for her teeth iirc) and she's lost out on a role in an off-off-Broadway production. I can't recall any indication that she was good at this or had received any encouragement. She herself said she hadn't "tried very hard" so maybe that's part of it but in general there's always an abundance of aspiring actresses, and most of them start on their way well before the age of 25 - the odds of her developing a successful acting career are statistically-speaking pretty low.
But who knows, we've already gone over the realism/lack thereof re: other aspects of this show.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
and maybe she's JUST THAT GOOD
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
that too
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
I do kind of wonder if she's being set up as a kind of sacrificial lamb character - ie, look at how all these horrible people in advertising corrupt/destroy the one non-awful person who wanders into their world
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
the odds of her developing a successful acting career are statistically-speaking pretty low.
Sure, but the point is that she'd regret it if she didn't at least try. Given her situation (i.e., married to Don), it seems like a good opportunity for her to chase a dream. If she gives it her all and can't make a go of it, then she can go back to advertising or whatever.
― Carrie Antwoord (jaymc), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
would be kinda humiliating for her to go back to advertising, no?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
Would it? I dunno. She can do whatever she wants; the marriage doesn't need her income.
― Carrie Antwoord (jaymc), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
Megan's just being self-actualized
― raw feel vegan (silby), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
Holy shit I just now connected the elevator shaft with "The Void" (orig. title of TMN)
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
TMN?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
oh, right
The Mad Nen?
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
Tomorrow Never Knows
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
Tomorrow Mever Noes
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
Tomorrow Moe Knows
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
Tomorrow Moe Nose
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
teenage mutant ninja (mad men)
― Merdeyeux, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
Tomorrow, Mow Nose
bandersnatch nevernose
― get wolves (get bent), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
plz no one excelsior this
― Mordy, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/raven.gif
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
TMN
ok lol dunno WFT I was thinking!
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Friday, 11 May 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not entirely sure, but I think this is saying that Megan is going to devour Manhattan:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/49385/megan-drapers-alien-invasion
― Alba, Saturday, 12 May 2012 09:06 (eleven years ago) link
facebook is good for something:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50810FC355C14738DDDA90A94D9415B868AF1D3
― dan selzer, Monday, 14 May 2012 03:50 (eleven years ago) link
jesus fucking christ, pete
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 05:06 (eleven years ago) link
Betty needs to not engage in psychological warfare via her daughter, that's not cool
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 05:10 (eleven years ago) link
Shipka ruling this episode.
I hope they're planning on putting in a little dig at Harry in every single episode.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 14 May 2012 05:14 (eleven years ago) link
Friction between Don and Ginsberg was A+.
Roger did a great job of at least portraying genuine regret the morning after. Still, that was a dick move.
Shipka ruling this episode. ^otm
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 14 May 2012 05:31 (eleven years ago) link
i saw rory gilmore's nipple, feels wrong
― akm, Monday, 14 May 2012 06:11 (eleven years ago) link
dream nipple, it's okay
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Monday, 14 May 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
Died @ Betty missing the trash can & the reddiwhip thing.
Also: Where the hell is Lane?
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 14 May 2012 10:25 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't seen the latest episode yet but there's no way that Don will be able to resist casting Actress Megan in a TV ad, right? And that's probably not going to end well.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 14 May 2012 12:21 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think Megan has any interest in being in commercials at all. you saw how dismissive she was of her friend for auditioning for dark shadows
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 14 May 2012 12:50 (eleven years ago) link
I'm a huge fan of the running gag about Roger having to hand out wads of cash from his pocket willy-nilly.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 14 May 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
she already refused to do a TV bit for Heinz why is everybody forgetting this
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I hope it happens at least a couple more times this season.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 14 May 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
post-acid Roger is a joy to behold
Sally rulin it this episode. "They showed me pictures" lol
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
I liked how Ginsberg didn't even have to negotiate. Roger knew where it was headed.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
also ads for next week indicate quite a bit of Lane. xposts
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, May 14, 2012 8:21 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, May 14, 2012 12:10 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
don told her she couldn't do it ("it's bad for business"). she also had no apparent interest in doing it.
― mizzell, Monday, 14 May 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
she's just gonna do pinter and albee plays
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
two big irl lol moments for me this episode:
- Betty + whipcream + spitting it into the sink- Ginsberg's "and... murder?"
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
also grats to Betty for raising a daughter better at psyops than you are, student has become master
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
god only 4 episodes left, everyone is far too secure with themselves right now, something has to go blooie. are there any World Events happening soon?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:37 (eleven years ago) link
maybe betty and sally will have a starve-off.
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
where are we at in the timeline, November '66...?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
yep, thanksgiving '66.
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
something has to go blooie
felt like that smog was particularly ominous.
― ryan, Monday, 14 May 2012 17:40 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wavz13/4083896787/
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7m8LP_E-8w
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
maybe they will address the first kwanzaa (held December '66)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
Wish they'd let up on Betty draper. I get it, she's fat!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
I suggested to someone that next time they replace the actor playing Bobby they should go full-on Doctor Who regeneration, and now I see that the first Doctor Who regeneration was at the end of October '66. I sincerely hope they don't miss this boat.
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 14 May 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
Bobby got actual lines this time!
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
hoping the series ends with Bobby pushing his dad out the window after murdering everyone in the office with Pete's rifle
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
- Betty + whipcream + spitting it into the sink
I dunno, I saw this and thought man, the writers really do fucking hate Betty huh
she's too one-dimensional villain at this point imo
- Ginsberg's "and... murder?"
this was hilarious though
― dmr, Monday, 14 May 2012 17:57 (eleven years ago) link
Betty's Thanksgiving prayer was twisted. "I'm thankful that I have it all and that no one has anything better."
― dmr, Monday, 14 May 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
felt like the Henry-feeding-her-steak-like-a-dog bit was more in this vein than the whipped cream bit, personally. but yeah she's a bit cartoonish
really hoping Henry goes to work for Nixon somehow...
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
That kind of tipped her into the "cartoonishly evil" category for me. xp
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
Ginsberg has turned out to be a great character
― dmr, Monday, 14 May 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
why did he not get off the elevator with Don at the end?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
like, does he have a second job somewhere else in the building or something lol
because he's not actually on his way home, since he's got to work late like Peggy and Stan
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
why was he in the elevator at all then
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
like iirc Don's in the elevator - Ginsberg gets in - Don gets out - Ginsberg stays in the elevator. where is each one going?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
Don enters the elevator, Ginsberg was *hiding behind a plant* or something so he could corner Don in the elevator and yell at him, Don leaves to go home, Ginsberg goes back upstairs to eat chow mein and keep giving Peggy shit
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
Don's "I don't think about you at all" was hilarious, not least because it's a total lie
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
I like how we've spent several episodes debating if Ginsberg was going to be seen as competition/foil for Peggy, when it's ending up Don.
I also like, in reference to all discussions about just how good they are and how much a genius Don is, that when he started with the devil talk, I thought the point was that it was terrible. It was clear the next day that while it wasn't as good as Ginsbergs, everybody thought it was pretty good.
― dan selzer, Monday, 14 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
saw it as the rest of creative was humoring him, b/c he's the boss, it's a bit of a chickenfeed account, it was a decent enough concept, and Don hadn't done much on his own in a while. It didn't seem great, no.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
I liked the bit where he said (when trying to make it seem like he was freestyling) that "obviously" everyone's minds turn to a snowball's chance in Hell. When... no, the first thing in my mind was a person being hit by a snowball 0_0
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
agree w/silby. Ginsberg's pitch seemed more effortless, particularly the thing about the pig
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
Don had definitely honed his concept a little bit between the time when he was recording ideas on the dictaphone and when he pitched it to the team
― dmr, Monday, 14 May 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
his new line was funnier ("this ... could change everything")
on a side note they finally did the sensible thing and started running The Pitch right after Mad Men (ad pitching competition reality show) instead of a rerun of the Killing
I watched it, it was ok. It was just good enough that I will probably keep the channel on AMC and watch it.
― dmr, Monday, 14 May 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
i'm just (vaguely, mildly, not really) annoyed that i had to turn away from the second hour of the food network star premiere.
― get wolves (get bent), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
Of all the shitty TV that I watch, Food Network Star is the one I feel most guilty about, because it's exceptionally shitty. But that's a conversation for another thread. Or better yet, for never.
― dan selzer, Monday, 14 May 2012 18:44 (eleven years ago) link
That scene of Don brainstorming was pretty LOL. I kept thinking "Oh, these are horrible ideas, any minute now he's going to kill his machine with whiskey in a writer's block frenzy.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
Food Network Star is responsible for Guy Fieri, so I think it should be killed with fire.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
Funny if you think about it - Don & Megan so inspiring with Cool Whip, Betty solo depressing with Reddi Whip.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
a) I think he was a plantb) he's Orson Welles compared to pretty much every other contestant who's been on that showc) I am sorry for cheapening a Med Men thread with food network star talk.
― dan selzer, Monday, 14 May 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
did Pete and Ken know that Don's pitch was Don's when they were suggesting it was pretty good (but less good than Ginsberg's)?
(btw, who were the ad people ['Peter, Paul and Mary'] who Pete was complaining about being highlighted over SCDP?)
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 14 May 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
re several comments upthread: i straight-up hate this show's treatment of betty. it's the one thing about mad men that really sticks in my craw. reminds me of the weird, nasty and at least borderline misogynist contempt displayed for elizabeth perkins' celia on weeds. somebody working out ex-wife and/or bad mommy issues...
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
Betty became a sympathetic character a while back, but she still acts upon her worst impulses. That doesn't make her a cartoon villain. That makes her human.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 14 May 2012 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks! I get the show on itunes, so I don't really get to see the promos.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
I was wondering this as well
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
See the link I posted above to the original article. Mary Wells, Richard Rich and Stewart Grene of Wells Rich Greene. "Our motto is, if we were modest, we'd be pefect".
― dan selzer, Monday, 14 May 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
Ugh.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder if Melissa's happy now lol
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
article's behind the paywall
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0z0hzf
― dan selzer, Monday, 14 May 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
gracias!
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
Ha, they had to take the ads out of the article. Also, is it just me, or does Mary Wells look a bit like Betty/January Jones?
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, but other at least partially loathsome (human) characters on the show get to act on a much wider variety of impulses, and the show seems to treat at least some of their behavior with a measure of sympathy and respect. for a while now, betty's just been getting hammered.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Monday, 14 May 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
sure she's human but she's consistently the dumbest and most short-sighted human on offer. it's pretty conspicuously and i don't really like it either.
― goole, Monday, 14 May 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
If Betty's character was never seen again in the series that ep would've been a damn good sendoff.
― poxen, Monday, 14 May 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
she's consistently the dumbest and most short-sighted human on offer
Harry
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
Feel like we haven't seen Betty's whole arc yet but I have a hunch they are going somewhere other than "lol Betty." honestly still her character very interesting.
― ryan, Monday, 14 May 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, but harry's dumb in a "basically decent", slobbery dog sort of way. he's not made to seem like a horrible, evil toad during every second he appears onscreen. he's mostly a harmless dork, and the show treats him with a measure of compassion (he even got to boast during the last episode that he's running his department alone and that it's doing well - something we have no reason to doubt).
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
harry is a dipshit but he knows how to do something!
― goole, Monday, 14 May 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
lol Harry? decent? like when he was describing banging the boss's wife? perving out on teenage Stones fans? dude is a buffoon and nothing but.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
Joan can do, and has done, his job
Really don't think there's anything stopping you from feeling compassion for Betty though?
― ryan, Monday, 14 May 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
I feel pity for Betty more than anything
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
I think the real problem with Betty (the character) is that she lacks charisma other than her beauty. Makes it harder to overlook the bad things she does (which are all petty compared to the others, tbh)--that overlooking we constantly do with the other characters.
― ryan, Monday, 14 May 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
I get the feeling the show people would be glad to see Betty go, but AMC won't let them dump the character because thwy feel January Jones is too big a name to let go.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
nah, Betty and Sally's relationship is gonna be great story fodder.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah Sally and Betty are heading for something epic.
― ryan, Monday, 14 May 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, he's crass, a dumbly lecherous boob, but he's not out to hurt anyone. we've never seen him do anything evil. in this respect, he's much more decent-seeming than don, pete, roger or betty.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
dumb lecherous boobs are their own special brand of evil imho
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
I know we've been over this, but the others all have redeeming qualities
― ryan, Monday, May 14, 2012 4:36 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think this might be due to limitations of january jones as an actress.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i tend to blame the writers, but that has the ring of truth bomb
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
i guess it's to the shows credit that we all see the characters so very differently
There were hints early on of, if not charisma, then something more compelling. I am thinking in particular of the scene with the air rifle.
― ryan, Monday, 14 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
Okay, the Sally thing is worth it to keep Betty around, but otherwise Betts is getting the scorn stick harder than the others.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 14 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m40yeuGBMS1qbvaudo1_500.gif
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
so glad we have #1 board feminist contenderizer around to inform us how a sad character on a tv show is an example of gross misogyny
― ♆ (gr8080), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:55 (eleven years ago) link
lol so what this is the jewish season?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:33 (eleven years ago) link
http://1ski.me/share/31days/mazaltovcocktail.png
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy is 1966 seen as particularly significant for Jews in NYC/USA?
― ♆ (gr8080), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:45 (eleven years ago) link
not that i can think of off-hand
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:47 (eleven years ago) link
cool to hear that smog thing was a real event
― ♆ (gr8080), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
Mad Men, now on its fifth award-winning season of alluding to real events!
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 02:11 (eleven years ago) link
"i promise, bubbeleh."
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 02:11 (eleven years ago) link
betty eating a cubic inch of stuffing was good stuff
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 03:03 (eleven years ago) link
I thought January Jones was really good in this episode.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
Betty struggling with her body image is the first time I've ever rly identified w her as a character
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
pretty sure ive said this before in past season's threads but betty/sally remind me way too much of my grandmother/mother. anything but cartoon imo.
nb this has lots to do with how my mom is pretty much exactly the same age as sally and my grandmother was exactly the same age as betty, but it has lots to do with other stuff too...
― ♆ (gr8080), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 03:13 (eleven years ago) link
"it's ok, she's hungry"
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 03:20 (eleven years ago) link
xp your mom is 12?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 03:32 (eleven years ago) link
i just think she's getting the short end of the stick is all. i like her as a character, and it makes me wonder why the writers don't wanna cut her a little slack, let her have a little joy or love or victory.
i didn't accuse mad men misogyny, btw. i said that the treatment of betty reminds me of the way weeds treated cecila, which i called "borderline misogynist". was meant as a slam at weeds, not mad men.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 04:10 (eleven years ago) link
Six Day War only six months away - could coincide with the season finale?
xxxxxxpost
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 05:16 (eleven years ago) link
Found Jones to be v likable on the ITAS show tonight
― Darin, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 05:54 (eleven years ago) link
were we supposed to sympathize with Megan/Don about the "ask about Anna" plot? I certainly didn't. Way to go, Betty!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 09:44 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know if you are exactly supposed to sympathize with them, but you are certainly supposed to dislike Betty for it. And I think Betty was hoping Megan didn't know about Anna and that it would cause much more friction with Don.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 12:16 (eleven years ago) link
Betty has basically since maybe the middle of season 3 (and it was a slowly evolving process) been made more and more dislikable. Which is funny because going back to the first season I think I felt a lot of sympathy for her and I think the show initially was really good about balancing her character out. Whereas these days it's just more and more displays of her lousy parenting skills and a bunch of "woe is me" whining and little else.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 12:23 (eleven years ago) link
The thing is I actually liked her the most for a long time in this episode - right up to her pulling that despicable shit with Sally.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 12:28 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m41pc0rhU71qzi80do1_r1_500.gif
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 13:59 (eleven years ago) link
This Jessica Pare photo from New York Magazine is maybe the most perfect recreation of the 60s the show has produced from any season. I just thought I was looking at an ad from 1966 initially.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m416dbYFle1qzoaqio1_r1_1280.jpg
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:03 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know how they get these performances out of that actress but that little mock-pout that sally does at the end of that gif is A++
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:12 (eleven years ago) link
what's the deal with the people who make those gifs? is it a thing like bronies?
― jed_, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:22 (eleven years ago) link
I think making captioned gifs is required in the tumblr bylaws.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
betty using her weight watchers lingo to comfort henry's career angst was great! a little pathetic too, sure
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
uh, yeah. betty was using sally as a weapon to stab at megan and don's marriage, for no reason other than jealousy. and she didn't seem to care how much grief it brought sally in the process.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
I like Megan's little condescending note to Betty when she found her in the house. What was it? Something like "You've seen everything" or "You've seen enough" or something.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
I think it was "you've seen most of it now," I took it as both a faux-humble "oh this old place? it's not so huge" plus "you walked right in without knocking, wtf" and "there is no way in hell I'm giving you a tour."
also to the audience "it" meaning "Megan's hot bod"
― dmr, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
i might be especially dense, but from what angle could 'way to go, betty!' be a reaction to her, unprovoked, using her 12? yr old daughter to stir up shit w/ her ex husb?
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
the angle of valuing the truth over convenient lies, I guess
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
Don't think a fierce commitment to honesty was Betty's angle there dude
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
It's not really just a convenient lie. Don could go to jail.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
It def wasn't. didn't mean to imply it was an accurate reading.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
If I'm being kind to Betty I'd say that she could have been treated better by Don in the past, so has some right to feel wronged the relationship went bad. But she's not an entirely innocent party, and hurting 3 people – including your daughter – is definitely NAGL.
― Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
Don treated her like shit. but the marriage is over, and it doesn't excuse this sort of petty manipulation.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
ha this flew right over my head at the time but it's great.
― ryan, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
Betty had a little moment of grace at the end of last season when she and Don were in the kitchen together before they sold the house. I think it felt like it was going to be okay, but I guess Betty's extreme fucked-up-ness crossed with her inability to realise that "having everything" in the narrow way she grew up expecting "everything" to be isn't necessarily awesome or worth aspiring to just made it go bad. Henry seems like a dude though, so I can't tell if she hates him or if he's a disappointment ("the wrong horse") or what.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
Henry does seem like a decent guy, but I think he has been a disappointment to Betty because she expected a new marriage to fix all of her problems and make her happy.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
I guess he's decent in the sense that he doesn't seem willfully malicious and is reasonably level-headed. otoh WASP Republicans who feel up pregnant married ladies are gross imho.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
it made for good drama!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
He's been kinda prickish to Don on a coupla occasions xpost
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
well, yeah, but that's pretty meta. by that standard, we're rooting for the killer in horror movies.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:56 (eleven years ago) link
you're an idiot
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:00 (eleven years ago) link
If you didn't know a thing about Betty, she is pretty and looks so normal when she smiles. I feel sorry for Henry Francis. He had no idea what he was flirting with.
― *tera, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno, i've liked betty a lot more this season. i feel like she's suffered enough, and don should suffer more?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
well thats valid but manipulating ur own daughter in service of that is p not cool
& if it's just 2 ratchet up drama, idk 'way 2 go, mad men writers!' ?
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
Wonder who Don's talking to in the teaser for next week, 'Maybe you and I should go as a couple.'
Then again, they tend to choose lines that are misleading when out of context.
― America's Mobile, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
I think she is more real than Megan. Megan is like a Barbie doll living in a glamorous penthouse, young at a time when it's great to be her age, she gets to follow her childhood dream, has children only on the weekends, her husband doesn't cheat on her. Betty has been through a lot. Her youth and dreams for any sort of modeling or faithful husband, happy family all cut short. Sometimes experiences such as hers can make a person more grateful or empathetic towards those around her. Other times it just makes a person bitter and mean. In Betty you see her struggle with both. I feel sorry for Henry because he does seem to love her very much and could really help her if only she could let go of her resentments.
― *tera, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
i like betty as a character (or rather i want to like her because i once found her sympathetic), but over the past couple seasons i've had to like her despite the way she's written, despite the things she's been made to do. this is an odd way for me to relate to the character, to separate my idea of what betty "should be" from the way she's written, because she only exists in the writing and performance, but so be it.
the fact that i want to like betty, however, doesn't make me think her manipulation of sally in this last episode was at all cool. in saying that i feel that i'm judging the bad things the writers are making betty do, not the character who i remain basically fond of.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
that was in response to sarahell
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:00 PM (32 minutes ago)
this sort of thing really isn't necessary
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
Betty = DisintegrationMegan = Violator
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
liking characters is overrated
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
― ♆ (gr8080), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
I think she is more real than Megan. Megan is like a Barbie doll living in a glamorous penthouse,
*tera otm!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
"more real," what
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
Betty: has a failed marriage and has mixed feelings about her ex; has body image issues and struggles with her weight; cares about her kids but isn't the perfect mother
Megan: manic pixie dream girl with a sugar daddy
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:54 (eleven years ago) link
that's pretty stupid
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
yeah how is Megan manic?
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
I guess you have to be mundane to be real?
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
are we watching the same show?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
evidently not
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
unless 'manic' means something else? what mania is she exhibiting
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
did you all miss the Howard Johnson's episode?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
Aside from her abrupt decision to resume acting, everything she's done seems pretty reasoned and deliberate.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
answering a question with a question? really?
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
none of that HJ stuff seemed manic at all. DD was being a dick, so she took off.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
Seems a bit ridiculous to say Megan is just a spoiled Manic Pixie Dream Barbie when a lot of this season has been about people seeing her as a spoiled Manic Pixie Dream Barbie and her dealing with that.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
xp - the way she got super weepy about leaving a job she disliked? the dance number at his surprise birthday party? the ice cream eating?
I'm not saying she is DSM-IV "manic" - but she does have this "too precious for this world" quality.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
Megan has basically been depicted as being inhumanly perfect, a trait I find creepy and disturbing
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
w/sarahell on this, clinical definitions of "manic" aside
the way she got super weepy about leaving a job she disliked?
this seems totally normal.
the dance number at his surprise birthday party?
she loves don and wanted to surprise him. sure it was misguided, but that's not manic by any definition
the ice cream eating?
it's pronounced sherbert.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
and i think she was exasperated with him, it had been building the whole episode
^^wrt the ice cream
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
The way some people perceive Megan makes me think I'm watching a totally different show. She's one of the only people in the world of Mad Men who seems to have her shit together.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
what if we eliminated the word "manic" and just left it at "pixie dream girl"?
Though I do think the weepiness was excessive and the total cluelessness in re the party made me think something was wrong with her.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:06 (eleven years ago) link
these characters are the exact same level of real, which is not
in the 'howard johnson's episode' where, as written, the character decided to be confrontational toward the pattern of character don's habitual level of manipulativeness and need for approval of choices he's already made. and then got severely punished for it because he got fed up and walked away. well, drove away.
the approval of everything betty has been shown to do recently and disapproval of megan is... iiinteresting
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:06 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/tv_club/features/2012/mad_men_season_5/week_8/mad_men_recap_megan_and_sally_are_friends_indeed_.html
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
I'm kinda digging Freddy Mercury now that I've gotten used to her
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
i am suspicious of Megan; she provokes anxiety in me as a viewer. That anxiety is lessened when the cracks show, because it makes her seem like a person. And I'm sure a lot of that anxiety and suspicion is because she is female, and she is regularly positioned as this ideal character, whereas you don't get that with any of the men.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
its interesting to note that in episode about people being selfish bastards, Megan was (once again) shown behaving in a manner contrary to pretty much everyone else
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
the total cluelessness in re the party made me think something was wrong with her.
i attribute this to the age gap more than anything else
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
what do we know about megan so far? is that she has pretty screwed up parents, more naive and more trusting than most of the characters on the show (kind of a low bar there), probably brighter than betty and with a better sense of self-retraint, probably the only character we've seen yet (save of course peggy and maybe lane) who tries to act with a sense of what's right.
she got some kind of dream to come true -- marrying the big shot in the city -- but has to deal with what life with all his baggage is like. that's half the point of her character, surely
after so many different flavors of cynicism, selfishness and bitterness, i think the show is having fun with a true innocent and how far that can go. really seems to bug some people tho!
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
How long did we have to wait to discover what Peggy's flaws are?
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
once I clapped eyes on her huge choppers I stopped being intimidated by her
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
it does make me a little suspicious - like the show's writers are waiting and ratcheting up the sympathetic angle prior to letting the other shoe drop
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy was flawed, or at least conflicted, right from the beginning
banging Pete against her better judgment etc
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
i think megan and betty both seem real. with megan, the writers have tended to emphasize the positive aspects of the character, and with betty the negative, but neither seems unrealistic or unlikely to actually exist.
i agree that there's something off about the show's failure to equip megan with her own burden of mistakes, grudges and flaws. it's like betty has to be made twice as evil as anyone else just to permit megan's relative decency to exist in the mad men universe. she is presented as something of a dream girl, though not exactly of the "manic pixie" variety.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy's flaws are that she slept with Pete and that she's conflicted?
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
flawed in the sense that she was a person that made mistakes. she did not always do the right thing/react appropriately etc
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
well there was that one jogging teacher, but she was both innocent and clueless. megan has ben given some foresight and intelligence. really the most 'manic' thing she's done to date is marry don
― goole, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
xp - i don't think betty has seemed particularly evil this season at all! she seems to be much kinder and considerate of her kids; she seems to actually enjoy things in life (ok, so it's food that made her fat, but still!) she does not seem remotely beyond the pale as far as interactions with her asshole ex that repeatedly cheated and lied.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
this is kind of a key difference between Megan and Peggy - while both are sympathetic, Peggy has made mistakes. we've seen her be awkward, petty, vindictive, self-absorbed, etc.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
flawed in the sense that she was a person that made mistakes.
Megan makes mistakes. She says the wrong things sometimes. She married a guy she barely knew.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
i still wanna know why Megan was constantly borrowing lunch money from Ginsberg and never paid him back. probably just part of her flaky pixie-ness and nothing sinister.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
she's grudgeful, sometimes mean, sometimes oblivious (her interaction w the new secretary), quick to anger, a bad actress (apparently), a pete-toucher, a frumpy dresser, a bit of a stick in the mud, a movie theater pervert, etc...
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
she seems to be much kinder and considerate of her kids
......................
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i'm not getting that at all. the most humanizing thing they've given betty this season are a fat suit and a dieting regimen.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
yeah she was delightful to Sally this week
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
she seems to actually enjoy things in life (ok, so it's food that made her fat, but still!)
this comment is intended seriously?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
contenderizer, my point is that we didn't know those things about Peggy in the first season of the show, just like we still don't know much about Megan after less than a season. Megan is still a mystery to us to some degree, just like she is a mystery to the characters. Joan thinks she's a trophy wife; Peggy thinks she can do anything.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
compared to how she was to her a couple seasons back? When I said "more" I meant it relatively speaking.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy banged Pete in the first episode! and dressed terribly
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
― sarahell, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:19 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
she used her 12-year-old daughter as a pawn in mind games with Don and Megan
adultery is bad, but this is way way way more bad. straight up horrible, childish, and evil.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
she's using her child to get back at her ex. manipulating your kids like that is inexcusable, one of the worst things you can do as a spouse with joint custody.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
She married a guy she barely knew.
would say this has pretty definitively been depicted as NOT being a mistake on her part. so far.
yeah, and she's repeated the latter sin in almost every episode
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy banged Pete in the first episode!
I was responding to contenderizer. I don't dispute this. I also don't see it as a character flaw any more than Megan marrying Don.
and dressed terribly
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
so you think neither are a mistake, but cited Megan marrying Don as a mistake anyway? okay
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
pete is nagl. marrying don i can understand.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:23 PM (3 minutes ago)
-- yeah, it is! It seemed the last season she was featured in she was miserable and super-depressed. I dunno, I just remember being severely depressed a few years back and taking no pleasure in anything, and being able to enjoy eating was a sign that things were turning around and there was hope.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
getting pregnant by one of your already-engaged superiors/coworkers - who also happens to be a slimy asshole - seems like a pretty big flaw imo but ymmv obviously
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:29 (eleven years ago) link
And not even -realizing- she is pregnant! That is a pretty serious flaw.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
there are far worse things you can do. like this just seems like garden variety bad parenting that lots of people in that situation do from time to time.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
i guess i see the compulsive eating as being symptomatic of the depression, not as an alleviation or bright note in it. it's hard to imagine she's getting satisfaction out of it, but other interpretations might be valid too idk
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
It seemed the last season she was featured in she was miserable and super-depressed. I dunno, I just remember being severely depressed a few years back and taking no pleasure in anything, and being able to enjoy eating was a sign that things were turning around and there was hope.
that's an interesting read, i guess. and she was looking forward to the pleasure that using sally against megan and don would provide, so i guess it's a bummer that didn't work out as planned.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
― sarahell, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:31 PM (15 seconds ago)
i come down somewhere between these poles. betty's manipulation of sally was shitty, but no more shitty (and arguably much less trivial) than don's mistreatment of betty. i still think that don is the show's only real villain, but this season seems to be working hard to change that impression.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
― sarahell, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:31 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
o_O
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, you don't ever do that shit with your kids, it's just wrong.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
people do it all the time. sad but true
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
I guess the qualitative moral difference is that cheating is something adults do to each other, involving the children means harming an innocent
^^^^^
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
I think both of them have made spur of the moment decisions that could have had bad results. For Peggy it did, for Megan it didn't. Judging things based entirely on the results is foolish.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
Betty isn't gargamel just being evil for the thrill of it. She's reacting (poorly) to things that have happened to her. That's why she's not so much a "villain" to me.
― ryan, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not saying it isn't wrong, just that it's not evil-wrong. It's not suggesting your ex or their current partner is an unfit parent, absconding with the kids, refusing custodial visits, trying to seduce the ex ...
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
fwiwI think Don's lying about his entire identity and serial cheating and general disregard for Betty as a human being is much worse than Betty's (still really bad) impulsive attempt to lob a grenade at Don through Sally.
― ryan, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
no, manipulating a child is way more evil than trying to seduce your married ex-husband, I promise. xp
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
not that I really believe in comparative evil but do you seriously think that manipulating a child is run-of-the-mill bad parenting whereas flirting with an adult is evil?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
having been raised by decent but flawed parents, i feel that "harming the innocent" is an unavoidable part of the process. what betty's done is shitty behavior, but not some high crime. sally will get over it.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
smh
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
look, it's not like she was trying to get Sally to say that Don was a rapist or pedophile. This is some pretty minor manipulation.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
i still think that don is the show's only real villain
http://images.wikia.com/madmen/images/a/a5/Pete-Campbell.jpg
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
There's a sliding scale of that stuff. Surprising your 12 year old daughter with the fact her father had a wife she didn't know about and then sending her off to ask her new stepmother is some low down shit.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think any of these things mentioned are evil, but i do think manipulating a kid like that is horrible
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
it's not like she was making it up though!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
to me Betty's just getting worse because whereas before she could kid herself that she had some kind of perfect life and was better than everyone, now she is keenly aware that she doesn't have everything she wants, it's harder to pretend so she's filling the cracks in her dream with food, AND she's using her own children to kick back against the things that are making her unhappy...she's never not going to blame everyone else around her for robbing her of her dreams and she's never not going to punish herself and her children for it
but I have never liked her character and I will never stan for her so that's just my 2 cents
super-editorialized, lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
I mean yes Sally will get over it but that doesn't mean that manipulating your 12-year-old daughter in order to disrupt your ex-husband's new relationship and in the process undermining your daughter's relationship with her father and stepmother isn't fucked up!
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
I mean at least Betty didn't stab Sally, right! She's got that going for her!
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
i mean, yeah, it was total shit-stirring, but, at what age is it appropriate for her to be told about it?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
why doesn't Betty just tell Sally about Don's real identity! No big deal!
betty's behavior was worse, no question. but i think don's treatment of betty over the course of their marriage was just as bad, and way more sustained.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think Betty gets to decide when Sally learns about it. you're being super obtuse.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
The stuff that happens to you when you are a kid can leave scars. It doesn't have to be a crime to fuck you up.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
comparative evil 101
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
12 is an appropriate age, but Betty knew the story and could've told her right then without leaving her hanging and having all sorts of misdirected anger.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
everyone ends up scarred - that's life!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it's totally obtuse to suggest that Betty's goal was to have a mature conversation with Sally about Don's family history
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
well, i think she has just as much right to make that decision as don, frankly. my objection is to the way she went about it and her motivations for doing so. i wouldn't quibble with her "right" to tell anyone she pleases the truth about don and dick whitman.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
if Betty had been motivated simply by a desire for Sally to know the truth, she could have just told her herself. instead she deliberately manufactured a situation that would disrupt Don's home/family
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
what's shitty is that Betty used her own jealousy over Megan and Don's life/apartment/Megan's semi naked body/whatever as the fuel to put her daughter in the middle of an issue that doesn't even INVOLVE Don's first wife.
it's not even Sally knowing. it's the motivations and the way she did it and WHY she did that's just so...Betty
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
Yay it's Strawman time! Whee! Nobody said "Betty's goal was to have a mature conversation with Sally about Don's family history"! Strawman time!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
that's life!
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
(well Betty may have been involved inasmuch as Don may have technically been a bigamist I forget how that all worked)
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
The only shitty thing about Betty's behaviour was telling Sally to ask Megan about it, imo
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
― sarahell, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:42 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
at what age is it appropriate for her to be told about it?
― sarahell, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:43 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
a Strawball's chance in hell ...
and yeah, Don had to divorce Anna in order to marry Betty.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
anyway clearly the depravity of this situation is up for grabs for some of you I know longer care
Except Don didn't actually tell Sally the story. Is Sally going to be more or less fucked up thinking Don 'had to marry Anna' vs if BEtty had told her he switched dog tags to run from his family etc
My parents lobbed shit through me alll the time when I was a child. Fuck, they still do. I am 29 years old and I still have to tell my family not to insult the absent person to me. This is a thing.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
That was about 30 xposts but y'all are typing too quickly today
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
well, exactly. she was trying to engineer a situation that would fuck with megan and don, and didn't seem too worried about the fact that sally might get hurt in the process.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
know no
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
^^ exactly. I'd even say it's more normal than any "Oh you simply MUST thank Megan for helping you on that project, sweetie!" like a kid doesn't understand that doublespeak (i.e. they do)
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
if BEtty had told her he switched dog tags to run from his family
tbh I have never really understood what Don explicitly gained from switching identities. I mean, surely he could have just run off from his family and changed his name, etc. This was not uncommon. Did he get Don's bank account and house and shit? I guess that would be a big deal.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
Wasn't the real Don about to end his tour? He got to go home early?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
For a while now I've found it to be kind of implicit that Betty doesn't like Sally. (not sure about the other kids.)
― ryan, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
I just feel bad for Sally.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
Huh! That's interesting. (That Betty might not like Sally)
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
Don gained a body that would get sent back to Shitckick, Wherever and get buried in the ground for one thing
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
xp That was what I thought - go home early, whereas Dick had just got there, more or less?
Betty is probably jealous of Sally w/r/t her & Megan's relationship too. My Mom has been mad at me and said some damned cruel things, intending it to hurt -me.- But she also lobbed some slow pitches to explode once I got to my Dad's house. But she also loves me, or at least she's lead me to believe so and let's not debate that part. ;)
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
Sally isn't as easy to deal with as the other two
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
Betty is totally jealous/resentful of Sally this has been obvious for a long time
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
of her relationship with Don, of her relationship with grandpa Gene, etc
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
Betty even tried to horn in on Sally's therapist
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
agree with this, but i don't know that it's so extreme as "totally jealous/resentful"
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
She also made Sally stop hanging out with Glenn, although that one might not be such a bad idear.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
Sally robbed Betty of her potential cougar action
sorry
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
This Megan vs. Betty fight seems so ridiculous to me. Having watched Betty over the first four seasons I mostly remember
lots of self-served mopingmanipulating peoplemore mopingpettiness
Maybe my memory is false or something. But I just remember thinking there's nothing at all to this woman other than her looks and a vague, childish, suffocating melancholia.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 01:35 (eleven years ago) link
I remember Betty being much more dependent on everyone around her. The lack of attention she got from Don is the main reason for their breakup. Whereas Megan might be a bit too enthusiastic for some people, at least she seems to know what she wants and is capable of constructing her own identity. Betty seems to wallow in victimization.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 01:37 (eleven years ago) link
I honestly don't know how fully formed the arc was when the show began, but at some point they realized that Betty and Megan had to be in stark contrast to one another.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
Betty wasn't allowed to work, and Don didn't want to spend any time with her at night.. Most of what makes Megan so foreign to her is that she can work (then mother on weekends.)
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 02:42 (eleven years ago) link
Betty did those print ads though (1st season? maybe 2nd) and decided she didn't really want to work. Except there was something else to that (somebody wanted to sleep with her? they were only using her as a favor to Don?), and I can't remember what exactly - something where she got huffy.
The Betty/Megan thing is playing out so much like my own mother/step-mom, it's a bit too real at times.
― Jaq, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
The print ad (for Coke) was a ruse that Don cottoned to.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
When Betty and Don went to Italy...The Betty we found in Italy was very similar (at least superficially) to the Megan we see today. She was stylish, hip, in the know with her Italian, if only for a moment and it seemed that Don was really into her at that moment. Once they returned home, back to the children and daily life, Betty threw a childish tantrum. The life she had was not the life she wanted, she wanted to live the way Megan is living with Don now.
I think Betty is a lot of women at the time. As times began to change there was a bit of jealousy and resentment towards the new generation of women who had more opportunity and choices and social freedoms. Plenty of women made that happen for themselves like Peggy.
― *tera, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 07:55 (eleven years ago) link
"Betty did those print ads though (1st season? maybe 2nd) and decided she didn't really want to work."
Rewatch this episode. This isn't what happened.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 12:12 (eleven years ago) link
is the whole bobby draper thing like a conscious brechtian device? i swear they pointedly get a new actor to play that kid every damn episode.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 12:20 (eleven years ago) link
xxp I think Betty really wanted to live some way other than the way she lived with Don on a day to day basis (which is understandable really, their marriage was pretty bad). The Italian trip represented an exciting escape from that day to day (as did Henry for a moment) but the reality of any life was inevitably going to disappoint Betty (just as actually living Megan's life would.)
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 12:21 (eleven years ago) link
I will, it's nagging at me now. Do you know off-hand which one it is?
― Jaq, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 13:28 (eleven years ago) link
Episode 1.9 according to Google.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
It's the pigeon shooting episode too which I forgot until just now.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
Betty is excited about her modeling shoot, but when they tell her they don't need her anymore, she tells Don that she decided not to continue so she could be home for her family.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think Italy was any kind of perfect trip either. i don't recall the specifics at all - but it *had* seemed like a perfect few days and then Betty (i think durring or after diner) makes some snooty/sulky comment (i think maybe because she had to go back to her horrible life or somesuch) and Don is just sitting there flabbergasted that Betty is still pulling that kind of behaviour then and there. i really wish i could remember this better!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
Don gave her a charm, once they were back home, to remember Italy by and that is when she threw a fit.
― *tera, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 16:35 (eleven years ago) link
right. thank you.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
i was semi-correct then.
iirc she threw a fit cuz she knew he'd given a similar charm to one of his g/f or something...?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
Now I want to go back and rewatch everything.
― Jaq, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
ha ha - i think i may have to!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:20 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
last one left cause he got another job. probably hard to hold onto a kid for a part with no significant lines.
― mizzell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
"iirc she threw a fit cuz she knew he'd given a similar charm to one of his g/f or something...?"
I don't think this is right.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
I thought there was something about it signifying his cheating (like he had bought her gifts after being caught cheating on her before...?) I can't remember honestly
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
I couldn't remember either so I googled for a recap: where Don is clearly still under the romantic spell from the trip, and Betty just as clearly is not, so when he asks what's wrong, she gives it to him: "I hate this place. I hate our friends, I hate this town." Dangling London in front of her is looking like a mistake in retrospect. And how ironic is it that now that Don really can't run away, Betty's the one feeling like she wants to? Don says the wrong thing, saying they'll go away again, and then asks her to look on her pillow. She obliges him, and finds a gold charm, which he says he'll have put on her bracelet. She nods sadly: "Then you can have something to look at, when I tell the story about the time we went to Rome." She heads into the bathroom, leaving him confused, and "There's A Small Hotel" appropriately kicks up as we go to credits.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:48 (eleven years ago) link
i dont know how anyone remembers what the non-sally kids look like
― man down (D-40), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:59 (eleven years ago) link
I think bobby keeps getting younger. Benjamin Buttons style.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
bobby is the real don draper's dad, out for revenge.
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
i wonder if mad men is the most recapped show in the history of tv
― High powered Texas lawyer (symsymsym), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe you missed Lost?
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:43 (eleven years ago) link
Italy episode is one of my favorites-- its the last time we see Don and Betty happy together before the marriage eventually unravels iirc.
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:35 (eleven years ago) link
and yeah i think the whole trip/charm bracelet thing is Betty realizing vacation/escape isn't good enough, she needs an entirely different life in order to be happy, and that's impossible, which is still playing out with Henry etc
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:36 (eleven years ago) link
yeah they're like the dream versions of themselves in that episode. he's Cary Grant, she's Grace Kelly...it's a good one.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 04:00 (eleven years ago) link
otm.
i love it when i go on vacation and feel like a dream version of myself!!
― ♆ (gr8080), Friday, 18 May 2012 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
I watched the Actors Studio thing last night. The thing I hate most about that show when they have entire casts on is that nothing of any substance ever happens. The teen goth photos of Christina Hendricks were cute, though.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 18 May 2012 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
oh god I cant
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Friday, 18 May 2012 03:13 (eleven years ago) link
sometimes when they play "day-o" in an arena I feel like the nba is winking at ilh
― Clay, Friday, 18 May 2012 03:17 (eleven years ago) link
lol wrong thread
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Friday, 18 May 2012 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
*winks at mad men* ;)
― Clay, Friday, 18 May 2012 03:22 (eleven years ago) link
The teen goth photos of Christina Hendricks
wot
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 18 May 2012 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzrxlunAMx1qztmmho1_500.jpg
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 19 May 2012 00:22 (eleven years ago) link
@}-,-`-
― goole, Saturday, 19 May 2012 02:38 (eleven years ago) link
last one left cause he got another job.
I read one profile that suggested some of the Bobbys have found working with January Jones upsetting and wanted to stop doing it
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Saturday, 19 May 2012 02:42 (eleven years ago) link
Finally watched the last episode and really didn't like how Megan interacted with her friend.
I also don't get why Megan in jealous of Betty. Is she? I can see why Betty is jealous of Megan.
Sally was great in this episode!
― *tera, Saturday, 19 May 2012 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
I felt the scene w/Megan and her friend was there to illustrate an unforseen (by her) problem about her new career path: is she hungry enough to compete w/her dues paying peers, or will her irl comfort fatally handicap her?
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 19 May 2012 04:47 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, there megan seemed dismissively snobby for the first time
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Saturday, 19 May 2012 05:54 (eleven years ago) link
or maybe she's just very serious about her art
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Saturday, 19 May 2012 05:55 (eleven years ago) link
I felt bad for Megan there
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 19 May 2012 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know if she's jealous of her, except maybe to the extent that Betty still has a claim on Don's attention, affection, and loyalty. But she's certainly suspicious of her, and she's right to be.
― trishyb, Saturday, 19 May 2012 13:06 (eleven years ago) link
I think Don's "Betty's fat nose" comment (and the Anna--Sally thing) prove much of his goodwill towards Betts is now gone.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 19 May 2012 13:13 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I love that Sally has worked out that she can finally get her own back on Betty without getting herself into any trouble.
― trishyb, Saturday, 19 May 2012 13:31 (eleven years ago) link
I never thought Betty had much of Don's loyalty or affection unless she was about to die.
― *tera, Saturday, 19 May 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
otoh it's kind of sad that she's basically learned how to do this from Betty herself.
That "Are you gonna make yourself cry?" bit with Megan was pretty spot-on Betty, too (amazing how well Kiernan Shipka channels January Jones in those moments).
― Roz, Sunday, 20 May 2012 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
like Megan's little condescending note to Betty when she found her in the house. What was it? Something like "You've seen everything" or "You've seen enough" or something.― dan selzer, Tuesday, May 15, 2012
I took this as "well you're never going to see the bedroom"
― bailiwick bill (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 20 May 2012 06:25 (eleven years ago) link
iirc it was "I think you've seen all of it."
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 20 May 2012 06:42 (eleven years ago) link
They're like the anti-Gilmore Girls.
― trishyb, Sunday, 20 May 2012 10:45 (eleven years ago) link
"like Megan's little condescending note to Betty when she found her in the house."
She let herself in and was clearing snooping around to satisfy her curiosity! I think a little condescension is appropriate.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Sunday, 20 May 2012 14:06 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it was an innocuous 'there really isn't much to see' comment about the apt (which in itself might be about megan's insecurity about don's wealth) w/ a heavy undertone of 'go fuck yrself bitch'.
― balls, Sunday, 20 May 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
Had she given Betty the full tour, would have made Betty explode with rage later.
― *tera, Sunday, 20 May 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
what the fuck is happening w lane
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 21 May 2012 02:32 (eleven years ago) link
this is one of my favorite episodes of the season. the krishnas. don's face during the play. lane's conniving.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 02:34 (eleven years ago) link
roger's amazing shirt.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 02:38 (eleven years ago) link
joan blowing her top. "there's an airplane here to see you. surprise." it just keeps getting better.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 02:42 (eleven years ago) link
Harry actually being a stand-up guy. The wonders of this episode never cease.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
So much going on this episode, so many nice moments and slow-moving threads. It all felt very season one (which is a good thing).
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
A couple slow dissolves between scenes, which is something I don't recall them having done recently.
Harry actually being a stand-up guy. In more than one sense, even!
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 03:14 (eleven years ago) link
the whole paul kinsey plotline broke my brain
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Monday, 21 May 2012 05:24 (eleven years ago) link
I never expected to see Kinsey again, so him coming back this was even more of a delight.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 05:27 (eleven years ago) link
*this way
I think it's only happened a couple other times, but when Don and Joan are together just being Don and Joan it's one of the best parts of the series.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 05:28 (eleven years ago) link
some really fucked up (not in a good way) cuts in this one, like bad coverage etc.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 07:42 (eleven years ago) link
they keep cutting between different medium shots of pete in a way that's really distracting.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 07:43 (eleven years ago) link
is that samantha mathis?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 07:45 (eleven years ago) link
it occurs to me that christina hendricks is a good actress.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 08:08 (eleven years ago) link
I thought the agency had a car already w/Oldsmobile.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 21 May 2012 08:37 (eleven years ago) link
Also: was it wrong to lose my shit everytime they came back to Hare Kinsey?
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 21 May 2012 08:40 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4cy95yTMn1qba9mio1_500.jpg
How could you not laugh?
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 21 May 2012 10:40 (eleven years ago) link
great line by harry - but you already gave it away
― johnny crunch, Monday, 21 May 2012 11:32 (eleven years ago) link
that subplot was really weird, almost too weird, and too busy--it should have been spread out across a few episodes. does mad men really do little one-episode mini-plots like that often? usually not.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
have you been watching this year?
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Monday, 21 May 2012 14:09 (eleven years ago) link
um
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 14:34 (eleven years ago) link
He apparently owes quite a bit in income tax to the British government. Not sure what the role of the guy on the other end of the phone was (accountant? tax mediator?).
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:34 (eleven years ago) link
also boarding school fees are bleeding him dry
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Monday, 21 May 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4czwzPwPv1qi532yo2_500.gif
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:49 (eleven years ago) link
How does that girl still have a job, though?
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 21 May 2012 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
She's not cut off anyone's foot yet, right?
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
Why did Don quote Bobbie Barrett? She's the one who said to him, "I like being bad, and going home and being good."
― *tera, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:56 (eleven years ago) link
Thought the scene between Harry and Lakshmi seemed a bit out of place.
― *tera, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
It totally did, but I think part of that is because Harry generally has no work scenes. The other part is the lame "I used to be a sex worker, so I'm going to manipulate you the best way I know how" aspect of her whole approach. Whether it was the Krishna thing or what happened with Lakshmi, Harry did the right thing by getting Kinsey out of that situation.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
fun episode, joan was the best thing about it. liking all the references to space and sci-fi this season, though i doubt they'll add up to anything.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
Loved it, good ep. Joan is the best!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
i cant even watch that joan .gif. i get the purpose of that scene & her character's reason for that behavior but it's srsly, deeply horrible
― johnny crunch, Monday, 21 May 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
dying at the Kinsey stuff, just great. Redeemed Harry a bit, imho
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that poor secretary should sue for emotional abuse. jeez.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
also loved the layers of irony in Lane forging Don's signature
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
seriously though if your job is to manage who comes in or out of the office and you just let anyone in, then that sort of means you're totally failing at your job.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:03 (eleven years ago) link
forging the signature of a man who's signature itself is a fake/forgery
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
yeah she could have asked "and this is concerning..."
but the guy just would have lied anyway.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, May 21, 2012 11:04 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that's a layer of irony, not layers of irony
unless lane pryce has also faked his identity. season-finale revelation!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W415wRfDUXY
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
ams: are you unaware that there are receptionists that actually manage to screen visitors? i mean, this actually happens.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
― s.clover, Monday, May 21, 2012 11:07 AM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
why are you being so condescending? oh wait, it's you. care to provide your flaky thoughts on the french cultural theorist du jour?
anyway, yes, i'm aware. it sounds like she just did a poor job of it, but those guys are experts at getting past secretaries. if she asked him his business, he'd probably say something that sounded perfectly legit.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
ok, but did he have an appointment? i mean people can't just show up and say "hi" and not have appointments and then you don't buzz and ask somebody if they want to see this person or not and if they say "no" then you get that person escorted off the floor.
i mean yes, people will eventually get served, but not necessarily in the middle of the business day.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
and in any case "but a more competent person might have failed also" is not an excuse for utter incompetence.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
if i crash my car and i'm drunk and have no driver's license and also i was driving with my feet, i can't just plead "other people crash cars too!"
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
i don't really care very much about this.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
you can fail @ your job w/o being assaulted iirc
― johnny crunch, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
So ARE they setting us up for Don and Joan having a thing? Or was this episode as far as they'll take it?
Also, I feel like given the arc of the show, SCDP winning Jaguar is a remote contingency.
― America's Mobile, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
I can't see it. would be stupid to have a Roger-Joan-Don love triangle imho.
otoh things obviously not going so well with Megan so Don's bound to fuck that up and screw someone else at some point
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
slamming airplanes on desks is the new shouting at people from cars.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
If Don cheats again, it won't be with Joan. They're sort of each other's "totem" (in Inception terms).
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
If Don cheats, Megan will totally lose her shit.
― *tera, Monday, 21 May 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
in Inception terms
please to not use this phrase again
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 21 May 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 May 2012 17:57 (eleven years ago) link
Call me old fashioned but I don't really think that fucking the woman your friend is obviously completely in love with and then offering him a load of money to go to the other side of the country and pursue a pipedream of a career that he is obviously completely terrible at is much of a stand-up guy thing to do. Regardless as to how fucked up his situation was.
The Kinsey thing was alternately hilarious and deeply sad but I was overjoyed to see that character get a proper ending.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I don't think Harry did anything remotely commendable, but he was less of an amorphous blob in this episode. Offering Kinsey the money to go to LA was at least showing some initiative/creative problem solving
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
Kinsey's "no one likes me" monologue was really moving, I thought. really nailed the pathos of someone completely adrift
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
The season overall has been the most anthology-like the series has been I think. Seems like this episode set us up for a bit of a Jaguar-focused arc through to the end of the season.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
culminating in Pete having a car crash, presumably
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
lol at that girlfriend's "he can really close". Giving Kinsey a bit of confidence and the opportunity for a fresh start without his life being sucked out by the girlfriend and the Hare Kirshnas was about the best thing he could have done.
also lol at "you've already traded that." or whatever he said. Great delivery.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't get why she didn't threaten to blackmail him
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
or I guess just blackmail him, no need for threats lol
perhaps Kinsey will refine his script
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
Shakey did the research I thought I was going to have to do :) I vaguely remembered this episode and wondered if it ad a similar storyline.
― *tera, Monday, 21 May 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
one of my favorite OST episodes, not least because of the ridiculously heavy-handed metaphor, which even so is less clunky than Kinsey's "Negron Complex" concept
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Monday, May 21, 2012 5:28 AM (18 hours ago)
Oh yes, so nice that the two massively attractive TV characters can just talk, with barely a smidgen of will they/won't they (barely. And they won't).
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf
This occurred to me in the first season.
So many hearty laughs from the return of Kinsey - he's a Hari Krishna! He's written a spec episode for fucking Star Trek!
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
I'm still a bit narky about the absolute ludicrousness of all English accents that pop up in this show.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
hendricks has taken a turn for the much better on the acting front this season
― phooey and nuts and phooey (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
she's always been good. she's probably the best actor on the show with anything do do.
― jed_, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 00:50 (eleven years ago) link
there are other good actors, like robert morse/bert cooper, but we don't see much of them.
― jed_, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
btw i couldn't make out the note on joan's flowers.
― jed_, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 00:54 (eleven years ago) link
They were from Don - "Your mother trained you well" or some such.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 00:58 (eleven years ago) link
signed, Ali khan
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, at the bar she said something like "My mother trained me to be irresistible" or something like that.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 03:37 (eleven years ago) link
pretty great episode! everything about harry and kinsey was hilarious and sad.
kind of dreading any financial shenanigans plot bullshit going forward tho
― goole, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 03:43 (eleven years ago) link
why so? seems pretty well motivated given what we know of lane's situation and character.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 03:44 (eleven years ago) link
― America's Mobile, Monday, May 21, 2012 11:37 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i didnt get the impression they were implying this at all. the dialogue was more about don having a fight of self-determination v. fate iirc, & ends w him driving a car really really fast
i rewound that convo she & he had to rewatch to try to better understand their diff perspectives on the cheating spouse
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 09:09 (eleven years ago) link
Is staying with the Hare Krishnas necessarily any better than heading off to LA and facing almost certain failure at being a scriptwriter? Dude seemed in a pretty vulnerable state and that's hardly going to help from what I can see. Peggy was probably OTM earlier in the episode.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 09:22 (eleven years ago) link
LA in the mid-late 60s -- so many more fun cults he could join!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 09:25 (eleven years ago) link
Is staying with the Hare Krishnas necessarily any better than heading off to LA and facing almost certain failure at being a scriptwriter?
yeah i can easily see kinsey panhandling on the streets of hollywood in a few years (or months). when his "screenwriting" ambitions turn up nothing, does he seem grounded enough to like get a job as a waiter or something?
he'll probably end up hanging out with charles manson and dennis wilson.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 09:28 (eleven years ago) link
peggy was great!
― goole, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
That could be her in three years, so the smugness about Kinsey's downfall was nagl I thought.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
I just realized - he was the best Krishna recruiter ever because of his advertizing background!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
What was it Peggy said? "If it doesn't come easy for him, then he shouldn't bother"? I thought that said a lot about her own attitude about work and her career.
― Never translate Dutch (jaymc), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
well the implication was if a script that bad didn't come easy then maybe he should try something else
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
i saw hare krishnas at the airport today for the first time in years! pretty cool.
― ♆ (gr8080), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
aside from the really charming joan and don love-in i found p. much everything else in this episode unconvincing. esp the hare krishna thing.
― jed_, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
what does that mean 'unconvincing'
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
what it always means!
― jed_, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
the jaguar salesman was convincing
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 00:27 (eleven years ago) link
then why you smell of british sterling?
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 00:31 (eleven years ago) link
i love the world of intrigue this line effortlessly invokes
― Mordy, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 01:35 (eleven years ago) link
talk about condensing.
― jed_, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
um, condescending
i'm just a pulpist
― Mordy, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 01:43 (eleven years ago) link
jed-I agree...
― *tera, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
i find that unconvincing
― Mordy, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
The Hare Krishna storyline seemed a bit sloppy. Liked seeing Kinsey but...meh. I could see how he would be the type to go exploring cults and how subcultures appeal to that character but the show seems to try and incorporate too much pop culture at once this season. Or was I just annoyed with this episode.
― *tera, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
given that the mid-60s was when pop culture REALLY went into overdrive, this seems entirely appropriate
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
They could've just found Kinsey in some storefront "cool" xtian church, but then we wouldn't have had the pleasure of his Krishna haircut.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
the theater and post-play argument between Don & Megan was awesome
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
I guess my main question coming out of the episode was whether Don is throwing himself back into his work for good reasons (he really has been slacking, needs to focus) or bad reasons (Megan is too hard for him to deal with so he's gonna live at the office for six weeks). The fact that Megan was pushing him to try harder at work makes it a complicated question.
― dmr, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
i think the joan dinner reminded him that there's more to live for than megan
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
also tooling around in a jag and megan freaking out with the spaghettihe likes domesticity but is trying to determine how to balance his life now that megan isn't the constant.tried making everything a playground, now will try to make his life a battlefielddude has trouble with half measures
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
given that the mid-60s was when pop culture REALLY went into overdrive, this seems entirely appropriateYeah, this is true.....
― *tera, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
megan is awesome you goon
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
I like Megan a whole lot more, her charm is diminishing.
― *tera, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
Kinsey is such a pathetic Krishna lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
i liked the joke about him working at A&P.
― tim machine (get bent), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
still cracking up every time I think of "there's an airplane here to see you."
― s.clover, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, laughed so hard at that
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
we need gif-age of that
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4e1eus8581qbyqaao1_500.gif
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
HOORAY
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
with "666" in the background behind the blinds
― tim machine (get bent), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
wanted a longer one w text, but that's all the internet seemed willing to provide
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
spooky xp
weird - what is that doing there?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
*meant I LIKED Megan a whole lot more....not so much now.
― *tera, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
tumblr comes through:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4d6o8eoQW1rrq2fxo1_500.gif
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
and another good one i found on my tumblr journey:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4hatxZUsk1rntmico1_500.gif
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
lol at the lamp gif, i'd forgotten about that
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
he played that very well, the lag between perception and comprehension
omg subtitled gif even greater than I hoped
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
hare krishnas was hilar
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
Weiner, Gilligan, and Milch talk about TV: http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movies-and-tv/201206/roundtable-discussion-matthew-weiner-vince-gilligan-david-milch?currentPage=1
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
i hope that's a convincing interview!
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
hare krishnas was sort of dumb, but not out of character for this show to do something for the lols. it doesn't take itself very seriously at all, least of all this season. it is 100% soap opera now.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
lol what was it before
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
back to the soap opera thing zzzzzzzzzz
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
it's always been a soap opera. just with clothes and furniture that you covet.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
Gukbe otm
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:24 (eleven years ago) link
i think the better word is "melodrama"
― ryan, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
It's a famous building. DC Comics was there for a long tiem.
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Thursday, 24 May 2012 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
that's what I was wondering, whether they were in the same building as DC comics!
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
a) the building would have to be several blocks long and turn a corner if so
b) DC didn't move there 'til the 80s
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Thursday, 24 May 2012 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
loved this episode! Christina Hendricks is a GREAT actress! Love her and Don!
Harry was ALMOST likeable. But not quite.
― homosexual II, Thursday, 24 May 2012 01:31 (eleven years ago) link
Ya know, Harry probably got some weird VD from that Krishna chick.
Also omg: he's fixing to be a dad AGAIN.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 24 May 2012 01:52 (eleven years ago) link
I kind of loved that Harry actually got into the chanting, that made me happy - like hooray there's hope for him somewhere in his meek existence, lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 02:06 (eleven years ago) link
from that GQ piece, so good that I had to share somewhere:
GQ: Given all the time in the world, would you choose to work this way on your shows, or would you prefer to write everything yourself?David Milch: That's a good one. All the time in the world? The "B" answer is, I'd write it all myself. Which is to say that in my vanity and egoism, I would think that that would be the way to proceed. And I know deep down that the better answer is: Even having all the time in the world, it's better to collaborate with your brothers and sisters. It's ultimately the richest experience. But there's a kind of intolerant economy that happens: "Just let me do the fucking thing myself."
David Milch: That's a good one. All the time in the world? The "B" answer is, I'd write it all myself. Which is to say that in my vanity and egoism, I would think that that would be the way to proceed. And I know deep down that the better answer is: Even having all the time in the world, it's better to collaborate with your brothers and sisters. It's ultimately the richest experience. But there's a kind of intolerant economy that happens: "Just let me do the fucking thing myself."
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
this series *started* as soap opera. seriously ppl.
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 04:29 (eleven years ago) link
i think people are operating with different definitions of "soap opera" and thus are talking past one another. what's your definition?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think the guy from the Sopranos was trying to make the next Passions.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:09 (eleven years ago) link
we've already been through this several times.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:13 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah it always has been soap but definitely had more ongoing serial arch in past seasons. This season could go on forever, so sparse is the plot.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
Arc* not arch
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:15 (eleven years ago) link
I don't remember us actually discussing in this in depth even if I know people have said the show is a soap opera a lot.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:19 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe it was previous seasons. It's a *thing*.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:23 (eleven years ago) link
this season is def the least soap-opera-y it's been, which I'm not sure I like. But like, say in the first season, all that suburban housewife/cheating husband/peggy pregnant stuff, TOTALLY soap opera
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:25 (eleven years ago) link
hell the overall arc is STOLEN IDENTITY
classic soap opera
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:26 (eleven years ago) link
The general disagreements tend to be what is "soap opera" and what is just "plot".
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:26 (eleven years ago) link
soap opera: intriguing story arcs over many episodes iirc?
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:31 (eleven years ago) link
so basically every serial drama then
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:33 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, but then The Wire, Deadwood, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Buffy, et al would be soap operas.
There's a pejorative connotation to the term that I don't think everyone is meaning, but it can sometimes be interpreted that way. Soap Operas are really any show with continuing threads, except the shows are never meant to end. It's become known (see the Passions reference above) as a string of Outlandish Plot Devices to keep people watching (and because of the amount of episodes that are produced, lack of constant innovation).
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:36 (eleven years ago) link
So Peggy being pregnant in the first season, for me, isn't soap opera. It would be if she were dating Pete and then Don barged in and said "that baby is MINE!".
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:37 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not at all talking about Soap Operas disparagingly, for the record. I've only ever meant it as a genre, and honestly I always enjoyed that given the time period that it DID have that soap-opera quality to the storylines, it felt kind of meta in a weird way.
maybe people are more invested in the show and want it to be a Drama, doesn't really bother me either way. But I've always viewed it as a soap-opera.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:40 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy gets pregnant to an ambitious up-and-comer and has a secret abortion and the only person who knows about it is Don Draper, super-executive.
there doesn't have to be barging through doors and j'accuse! standoffs for that to be soap-opera.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
Remarkably little happens in terms of overall plot in any given episode of Mad Men, which is why it strikes me as funny that people are quick to shout "Soap Opera". The show has the identity theft hanging over it, or at least it did for a few seasons, but really it was about personal reinvention in America, which is basically the same idea as in The Great Gatsby, and that's surely not a soap opera.
If you take a step back and say "Joan was raped by her fiancee and then he went off to war and while he was off to war her ex-lover and boss had sex and then she got pregnant but she's pretending its her now-ex-husband's baby", then yes, it seems pretty soap opera-y. But it's never presented in that fantastical, DUN-DUN-DUUUUNNNN way.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
I have watched an embarrassing amount of actual soap operas. The way Mad Men is shot, written, acted, researched, costumed, etc. etc. is very different.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
And Romeo falls in love with a rival family member, whose cousin kills his best friend, and then he kills that cousin, and then he goes on the run only to come back when he thinks his love has killed herself so he kills himself not realising that she didn't ACTUALLY kill herself.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:43 (eleven years ago) link
A huge number of stories in any medium, when summed up to their bare essentials, can be seen as soap opera.
I know you're not meaning it in a pejorative Veg, btw.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:44 (eleven years ago) link
Well, like I said, it always felt soap opera to me. And I do very much like soap operas and enjoyed them an awful lot at an earlier point in my life (Young and the Restless, Days, Bold)My feeling was with Mad Men they just snuck the soap opera in the back door with all that meaningful staring out windows and cool clothes and furniture porn
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:46 (eleven years ago) link
They let you THINK nothing's happening and meanwhile you're slowly, veeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly being indoctrinated into SOAP OPERA VIEWING dun dun
:D
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:47 (eleven years ago) link
Soap Operas are really any show with continuing threads, except the shows are never meant to end.
No, that's way too broad a definition! Soap operas get their name from serial programs (first radio, then tv) that were targeted at women. They have many of the elements of classic melodrama (the stuff Adorno hated because he felt that it was an opiate of the masses). Plots revolve around domestic issues: relationships and families, mainly.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:55 (eleven years ago) link
I did a course on soap operas and it was defined differently, though you're right about its origins. UK soaps v US soaps are way different though.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:57 (eleven years ago) link
And Mad Men shares a lot of those elements - like it's 75% soap opera.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:58 (eleven years ago) link
The main difference I noticed between UK soaps v US soaps is that the characters/plots of the UK soaps revolved more around the working/lower-middle class, whereas US soaps tended to portray wealthy powerful people.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:00 (eleven years ago) link
And it's weird to have people on this thread saying "soap opera" is not a pejorative, when the term, from its inception, was a pejorative. I'd prefer, for the sake of those origins and connotations to refer to it as melodrama.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:02 (eleven years ago) link
True, but UK soaps tend to be grounded in a more plausible 'reality', whereas US soaps want the fantastical absurdity.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:02 (eleven years ago) link
I'm more willing to accept "melodrama", though I really don't think Mad Men has the heightened quality I associate with it.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:03 (eleven years ago) link
But the main focus in the UK, just as in the US, is on families and relationships, right?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:05 (eleven years ago) link
heightened quality?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:06 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, the focus tends to be on family units in a community. Heightened quality = sweeping emotions and heart-string tugging.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:10 (eleven years ago) link
Heightened quality = sweeping emotions and heart-string tugging
And you don't see this in Mad Men? Not with Betty? Not with Pete and his "surburban adventures"? Not with the Don and Megan drama?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:12 (eleven years ago) link
So much of Mad Men just screams out to me, "think of me as scenes from a Douglas Sirk film!"
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:13 (eleven years ago) link
Absolutely not. Melodrama is as much about presentation than it is about plots.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:13 (eleven years ago) link
See, I think the exact opposite re: Sirk films.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:14 (eleven years ago) link
I'm referring to the presentation and the plot!
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:14 (eleven years ago) link
At the very least, I don't see how Mad Men does it any differently than other dramas.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:15 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah. we'll disagree then, because it doesn't strike me as melodramatic at all.
I don't see what was melodramatic at all about Pete and Rory's encounter tbh.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:16 (eleven years ago) link
He was smitten, sure, but only in that "Pete sure is pathetic" way. I don't think the show went to any lengths to raise the stakes about some greater emotional depth to what was happening between them.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:17 (eleven years ago) link
Other dramas, such as ...Doctor Who? Battlestar Galactica? The Wire?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:17 (eleven years ago) link
It trades in a degree of melodrama. Doctor Who has a lot more of it than the other two, though its certainly there in BSG and, to a much much lesser extent, The Wire.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:18 (eleven years ago) link
The way they framed the longing looks in the car window, with the omg, her drawing a heart? Those lingering shots on him looking disatisfied? Classic melodramatic subject matter and presentation!
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:18 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I'm just reading it wrong though.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:19 (eleven years ago) link
Except there were so many levels of ambiguity going on there.
It certainly seems like we're reading it differently.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:20 (eleven years ago) link
For Pete, it's all real. For Rory (nope, not gonna learn her character's name), it's something different. Melodrama, for me, has everything at the surface.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:27 (eleven years ago) link
Not to say that melodrama can't have depth - Sirk used the tropes of the genre to dig deeper (Wyman and Hudson's break-up at the cottage is presented with the same gravity as the kids buying her the television set), but they are tropes that I don't think Mad Men use all that often (though it does on occasion).
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:31 (eleven years ago) link
honestly it would help if somebody made a list of say, five or six traits that they identify with soap operas. i'll try:
dramaturgy:1) intensive seriality. individual shows tend not to have a strong sense of structure unto themselves. there is little strongly marked sense of closure or patterning at the level of the single show.2) each scene builds to an emotional climax, usually ending on a note of suspension or revelation. this is the basic principle by which i think many people identify "soap operas," and yet to some extent it's how all commercial television works. so distinguishing the soap-opera version of this narrative principle is harder than it looks. but i'd argue that any given 45 minutes of a soap opera contain more "situations" (in the dramaturgical sense) or climaxes than other genres of television drama.3) like melodramas of yore, soap operas place a heavy emphasis on coincidence and fate; by classical standards, an awful lot is--not UNmotivated, but rather unDERmotivated. (you rarely get something entirely unmotivated, although the appearance of barnabus collins in dark shadows would seem to come kind of close.)4) duration! soap operas are distinguished for being on the air--or at least, designed to be on the air--for a very long time, with some plot arcs covering an incredible span of real and fictional time. the same might be said of TV shows like cheers or friends but by contrast individual episodes of those shows are much more, albeit contingently, discrete. not as "serial." (although by its last few seasons "friends" was getting more serial in this sense.)
visual style:soap operas are/were famously shot quasi-live (on tape) with very simple blocking, enormous numbers of repeated setups, uniformly high-key lighting, in sets with somewhat spartan or generic decor. of course, once you get prime-time soaps like dallas this isn't necessarily true. of course the fact that we distinguish those series by calling them "prime time soaps" instead of simply "soaps" (and that this calls more to mind than just a time slot) suggests that the production values and visual style of "soaps" is pretty identifiable.
sensibility:- in keeping with its heritage in melodrama, soap operas promise a heightened emotionality--all the "situations" serve to provide innumerable opportunities for actors to display intense emotions, or simply for the pathos of the drama to be recognized by the audience. lots of screaming--accusations, revelations--in soap opera. - also, i'd characterize soap opera as intensely logocentric. each scene is essentially a scene of _talking_--hence the simple, repetitive blocking and framing.
not all of these things are always true of every soap, nor should we expect them to be. and surely mad men resembles the stuff described above, but not everything, certainly not everything at once.
if we work from a family resemblance approach and say that something like 'all my children' is an uncontested soap opera, with (i think) all of the qualities i listed above, we can gauge another show's "soap-ness" by seeing how closely it resembles 'all my children'.....
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:37 (eleven years ago) link
arrrgh there's the old "sirk really gave melodrama depth" meme. zzzzzzzzz. melodrama is a longstanding, if not always proud tradition in the arts that has furnished a gazillion wonderful works, before and after sirk. just to stick w/ american movies, watch waterloo bridge (taylor/leigh version is best) or back street or the crowd etc. etc.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:39 (eleven years ago) link
that's not to deny sirk his place as a stylist etc., but the whole "the melodrama was waiting for sirk to elevate it" story needs to be taken out back and shot.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:40 (eleven years ago) link
anyway mad men.
i only mentioned sirk because he's held up as an "auteur" of the genre, and Weiner has auteurish aspirations.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:41 (eleven years ago) link
yeah but i actually disagree with the affirmative statement you are making and what it implies, but anyway. mad men.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:42 (eleven years ago) link
And I think it's a bit problematic to compare Mad Men to All My Children, simply because of how they are presented and to whom they are being sold. Mad Men doesn't have internal commercial breaks. The structure of All My Children is designed around internal commercial breaks. The audiences are also different.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:44 (eleven years ago) link
my affirmative statement is that that "story" exists and is believed by some people!
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:45 (eleven years ago) link
i think one argument against mad men being a soap opera is how elliptical it can be -- deliberately avoiding, rather than lingering over, what in a soap-operatic context would be scènes à faire--scenes that the audience would DEMAND to be shown. a couple's divorce, marriage, death, etc.
And I think it's a bit problematic to compare Mad Men to All My Children, simply because of how they are presented and to whom they are being sold. Mad Men doesn't have internal commercial breaks. The structure of All My Children is designed around internal commercial breaks. The audiences are also different.― sarahell, Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:44 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― sarahell, Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:44 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
huh??? you just compared them! and you found them to be different in certain essential respects! i think you made some points that indicate MM's distance from the traditional soap.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:46 (eleven years ago) link
sarahell the comment that irked me was "Sirk used the tropes of the genre to dig deeper" which implies that melodrama typically lacks "depth" in some sense that sirk's films do not, which is a crazy problematic overgeneralization. but anyway, mad men.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:47 (eleven years ago) link
my post was in response to this thing you said:
we can gauge another show's "soap-ness" by seeing how closely it resembles 'all my children'.....
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:48 (eleven years ago) link
imagine this
me: "is mad men a satirical cartoon? well, let's posit 'the simpsons' as something that everyone would agree is a satirical cartoon and see how mad men compares."you: "but you can't compare the two! one is satirical and a cartoon, and one is not!"me: exactly!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:49 (eleven years ago) link
i mean if we can't even posit a single show that everybody agrees is a "soap opera" then we may as well stop having this conversation, no?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:50 (eleven years ago) link
soap operas are/were famously shot quasi-live (on tape) with very simple blocking, enormous numbers of repeated setups, uniformly high-key lighting, in sets with somewhat spartan or generic decor. of course
a lot of this was related to the fact that they were on 5 days a week.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:51 (eleven years ago) link
It's more fair to compare it to a prime time soap in that it's a scripted, taped one-camera, but narratively it's much more interesting that those shows. Those shows didn't really offer much beyond plot points.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:51 (eleven years ago) link
a "prime time soap" is already, by most reckonings, a hybrid format.
i still think mad men's ellipticality (sp?) is something that sets it apart from an orthodox soap _and_ most things i would think of as "prime time soaps."
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:52 (eleven years ago) link
i wonder how matt weiner would answer this question btw
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:53 (eleven years ago) link
It's more fair to compare it to a prime time soap in that it's a scripted, taped one-camera,
Yes. Add to that: aired once a week, does not have a continuous production schedule (in the off-season there'd be re-runs).
but narratively it's much more interesting that those shows. Those shows didn't really offer much beyond plot points.
interesting to whom? offer much to whom? does the target audience affect the genre?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:55 (eleven years ago) link
amateurist: Sirk is the go-to example. This isn't a conversation about Sirk. I agree with you, but don't take the general shorthand that has developed as some sort of all-encompassing statement that elevates his work as differentiated.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:56 (eleven years ago) link
This show is also incredibly episodic.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:57 (eleven years ago) link
How so?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:59 (eleven years ago) link
interesting to whom? offer much to whom?
interesting to me. offer much to anyone who wants more than just plot. Mad Men has ideas ... sometimes they're kind of poorly formed but clearly the writers are trying to say something about relationships, power, office politics, etc. that didn't really happen on Dynasty or Dallas or whatever. Those shows offered archetypes and absolutes, but Mad Men's characterization is more varied.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:00 (eleven years ago) link
but does that make it a different genre than Dynasty or Dallas, or just a better show?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:02 (eleven years ago) link
I think it does but obviously it's up for debate. Mad Men has more in common with Thirtysomething or Hill Street Blues than with Dynasty imo
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:04 (eleven years ago) link
the difference between the soap opera and melodrama in formal terms is the difference between the sitcom and comedy in general. both the soap opera and the situation comedy are fixed in place. in these genres, things may happen, minor characters may come and go, events may appear "LIFE CHANGING" from moment to moment, but nothing ever really changes. the box is set and inviolable.
taxi must revolve around that garage, and regardless of whatever large scale life-arcs the various characters might see themselves as enmeshed in, so long as they're on the show, they can't move outside the garage. same is true of mad men. the characters go through all sorts of gyrations, but when the day is done, there they are at SCDP. don is dark and conflicted, peggy is ambitious but frustrated, joan is voluptuous yet lovelorn, roger is drunk and feckless, pete is a fucking dink, and so on.
if this were a real melodrama, don could abandon his family and set sail for brazil. peggy could find a second career as a novelist before settling into a loveless marriage in ohio, before chasing an old flame to san francisco. lane could return to england and oversee the slow dwindling of his once noble family while his children make reckless choices. place, cast and moment could be in constant turmoil. but it's not. mad men is a soap opera, a tiny stage on which the melodrama endlessly recycles itself, rinse and repeat.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:05 (eleven years ago) link
the characters go through all sorts of gyrations, but when the day is done, there they are at SCDP.
They didn't start at SCDP!
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:07 (eleven years ago) link
don is dark and conflicted, peggy is ambitious but frustrated, joan is voluptuous yet lovelorn, roger is drunk and feckless, pete is a fucking dink, and so on.
Don is also charming and confident, peggy is wacky and friendly, joan is more than a body type, etc. etc. You're selling these characters short.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:09 (eleven years ago) link
SCDP is Sterling Cooper 2: the Sterlinging
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:10 (eleven years ago) link
same place, different name. episode to episode dynamics are the same. no one's a cop, a ghost, a midwife, an ESL teacher, or anything other than what they've always been.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:12 (eleven years ago) link
Thirtysomething was pretty soap-opera-y iirc
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:13 (eleven years ago) link
if this were a real melodrama, don could abandon his family and set sail for brazil.
This is really more of a movie vs. tv thing. A tv show is bound to its sets. But even then modern shows change locations more often than they did in the past.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:14 (eleven years ago) link
well, of course. i gave them each two words for the sake of economy (and comedy). they're obviously more than that, but they're all just as obviously locked into their various roles.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:14 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzk3-5GYvbE
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:17 (eleven years ago) link
No more than any other drama of that era.
but they're all just as obviously locked into their various roles
Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:17 (eleven years ago) link
ugh why am I not asleep, fuck me
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:18 (eleven years ago) link
is that why you used taxi as an example?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:19 (eleven years ago) link
A tv show is bound to its sets.
this isn't necessarily true. tv shows are bound to certain formulas, but i think this has less to do with physical and economic constraints than what people (presumbably?) want of a story that is open-ended vs one with a clear beginning and end. stories on TV tend to exploit a single fixed situation, life as the reliable continuance of the here-and-now. no matter where you tune in, you're guaranteed of seeing the same face in the same places doing more or less the same thing. therefore, sitcoms and soap operas. TV values consistency.
since there's less demand that cinematic narratives be continuous, they can veer off in any direction they choose.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:19 (eleven years ago) link
no one's a cop, a ghost, a midwife, an ESL teacher, or anything other than what they've always been.
Kinsey is an unemployed Hare Krishna fyi
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
also Joan left the office for like a year
pretty sure Pete is a ghost
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
good posts from amateurist
― goole, Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
and Harry would make a hilariously awkward ESL teacher
― goole, Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:37 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
srsly is this happening more often now or am i nuts
― goole, Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
harry just got ass off a vengeful hippie cultist, this would have been unthinkable in previous seasons
― goole, Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
spur-of-the-moment sex has happened a few times in past seasons (esp with Don, but also Sterling/Joan in the street, Joan gettin raped, etc.) but yeah this seems to be happening more for some reason. In the case of Don it's kind of obvious why, he's trying to keep the passion in his marriage going.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:57 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― sarahell, Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:59 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
Every episode has a lot of very self-contained elements, even as you'd need to see the series as a whole to understand the characters and their motivations as well as some of the larger arcs. Last week, Paul tries to get in contact with Harry, Harry sees him, goes to Hare Krishna, has sex with Paul's girlfriend, then gives Paul money to move away to LA and start his life over. Lane's money troubles are pushed to the front, and even that has a little arc. There's also obviously a thematic connection (most, if not all, episodes tend to have a larger theme).
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
As for tying things in w current events, anyone think there's a chance Joan ex-husband may show up later as a protesting veteran peacenik?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
I hope Joan's ex-husband shows up later in a pine box
YES I SAID IT :)
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
both of those seem pretty unlikely
― goole, Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
i mean, if this were real.
― goole, Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
Dr. Rapey gettin killed in 'Nam seems sort of obvious so I doubt they'll go there. maybe he'll come back missing a leg or something.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
he's a surgeon and an officer, there's a better chance of him coming home with the clap or a heroin addiction. or a kid. or being just fine. jesus, you people.
― goole, Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
nm I was trying to be funny
*sigh*
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:39 (eleven years ago) link
Dr. Rapey comin home as a junkie would be pretty funny
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
guys, it's a romcom
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
...also Joan left the office for like a year
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:00 AM (1 hour ago)
kinsey was always a minor character, and i doubt we'll see much more of him. joan's life never really developed outside the office, was limited to her apartment and her interactions with two minor characters. she left for a while, and now she's back.
constant, melodramatic churning in place is one of the defining characteristics of most soap operas. there's lots of interpersonal drama, secrets and schemes, the sense that some major upheaval or revelation is around the corner, but very little real change from episode to episode. that's what keeps people tuning back in: familiar characters and situations, always simmering suspensefully.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
I am confused by your association of a change in locale with "real change"
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
like I can throw out a whole bunch of ways characters have changed but I suspect you'll just dismiss them because they're all bound to the central location of an advertising office
familiar characters and situations, always simmering suspensefully.
this sounds like most people's lives tbh
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
isn't the mark of these highbrow dramas that have emerged after The Sopranos (or however far back you wanna go) distinguished by a more, say, linear sense of time/plot? even in some cases having a set amount of seasons, a larger arc or story to tell over an entire series, etc.
― ryan, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
like somewhere between a serial novel and an episodic tv show.
― ryan, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
a sense of history is important, sure. you don't want to hit the reset button at the end of every episode.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
none of these shows started with a planned multi-season story arc. TV doesn't work that way.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
feel like that's exactly what's at issue here, though. and what's "different" (if anything) about these shows, whether premeditated or not.
― ryan, Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
mad men did start with a planned single season story arc though, start to finish.
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
I said multi-season
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
Sopranos started with a single season story arc too
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
the essential problem with planning multi-season story arcs for TV is that no one knows whether they're going to get cancelled or not
ie no studio is going to promise, upfront, to bankroll a TV show for multiple seasons; it's a requirement of the economic environment that series' function in single season increments
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
my small and only point is that there's now a sense or expectation of a contained narrative (ie, it has a pre-determined end, loosely understood). I think also there's an expectation of thematic coherence. we expect all of Mad Men to amount to something more than the individual episodes or even seasons. the fact that these shows straddle a line between episodic and a more classically "novelistic" style is precisely why they are hard to categorize.
― ryan, Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
that's true, but I think the expectation is just unfair. Sopranos has been the only show to really deliver on that score, and it was not planned out more than a season or two in advance.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
yeah agreed. but again perhaps that's one thing that's especially interesting about these shows. (i say "these shows" loosely to avoid any more taxonomical arguments!)
― ryan, Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
...like I can throw out a whole bunch of ways characters have changed but I suspect you'll just dismiss them because they're all bound to the central location of an advertising office
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:51 AM (1 hour ago)
i'm not using soap opera as a pejorative here. i see it as a value-neutral genre descriptor. contemporary, post-sopranos episodic dramas do push against the confined and static nature of the traditional soap opera formula, allowing a bit more week-to-week change than the genre typically allows. nevertheless, they do share certain formal qualities with daytime soaps, one of the most important being the way in the melodrama sort of churns constantly in place.
i see the change in corporate identity and office as a costume change, a cosmetic change. far less radical, for instance, than luke and laura going on the lam from general hospital's hospital (to compare it to the kinds of events that occasionally shake up the stasis of "real" soap operas). and sure, the characters and their relationships do change subtly over time, but that's also consistent with the traditional soap. people get married, divorced, form and break other alliances, move up and down in the world, heroes sometimes seem to become villains and vice-versa, etc. but the size, shape and general texture of the fishtank remain pretty constant despite all this "churning". that's what makes a soap opera.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
afaic new soap opera eps are aired 5 times a week and are summarized in
http://www.discountmags.com/shopimages/products/normal/extra/Soap-Opera-Digest.jpg
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
novels *were* classically episodic! for chrissakes, people.
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
i mean i think mad men is only hard to categorize if your two points of reference are solely Married... With Children and 60 Minutes.
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
i just don't know what posters calling mad men a soap opera are trying to prove/argue/provide to the discussion. does considering it a soap opera give you an insight into the show, or is it just a passive aggressive way of being dismissive? are you just striving for taxonomic accuracy? bc who gives a fuck about the platonic form mad men most closely resembles?
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
sure, but the setting and characters of episodic, melodramatic novels can and often do change a good deal more than the soap opera form allows. children can grow to adulthood and have children themselves, protagonists can travel the world and change careers with each stop along the way, fortunes can be made and lost, etc.
the weekly episodic prime-time drama genre that mad men belongs to has a lot in common with the "traditional soap opera" (as covered in soap opera digest), but is also different certain respects. it's typically more subtle, the production values are higher, it's less single-mindedly focused on scheming and romance, and it aspires to sophistication in ways the traditional soap opera doesn't
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
does considering it a soap opera give you an insight into the show, or is it just a passive aggressive way of being dismissive? are you just striving for taxonomic accuracy? bc who gives a fuck about the platonic form mad men most closely resembles?
the aggressive aggressive tone here is baffling. as far as i'm concerned, calling mad men a soap opera is like calling a care a vehicle (or batman a superhero). it's taxonomic, but not terribly important. there's no dismissal intended. i love mad men and think that the automatic assumption that "soap opera" must be pejorative is a weird thing in itself.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
^ "...like calling a car a vehicle..."
it's not aggressive aggressive. i'm aggressively challenging the value of your point. it's not like i made it personal. though you do seem to have a habit of strenuously arguing for things that are of minimal import. for example: if i started arguing about how Mad Men is actually a gothic drama in the tradition of 18th century English literature (a claim, btw, that I think makes way more sense than yours) you wouldn't be wrong to ask what my stake is in that argument. and if I answered by saying that it's "not terribly important" you might roll your eyes so hard that they cracked the ceiling of your eye sockets.
also, you are either ignorant about what a soap opera is traditionally, and what a soap opera means culturally in 2012, or you are being disingenuous. calling something a soap opera is immediately minimizing its significance and suggesting that the themes that are important are more about the dynamics of who is fucking who (wonderful discourse, btw, and makes for excellent gossip and I completely understand why ppl love soap operas) than things that, idk, matthew weiner might claim mad men is about. one issue here is that you want to make your claim without explicitly stating why the claim matters or what it says about mad men, and i have to believe that it's either because a) you don't know and haven't thought it out or b) because you think you're being a sneaky fucker.
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
The first season was very obviously and deliberately among other things a knowing take on 1950s domestic drama. If you want to call that, in some sense, a "soap opera", then good, that's simple enough. If you object to that term and have a better one, then, whatever. But the *point* to me isn't the term, but recognizing how it situated its cultural touchstones, seeing the source material it drew on, how in turn it commented on that source material, etc.
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
well, i think you used the term Melodrama above and that's the correct genre term for that insight (that it was a take on 1950s domestic drama). that's not what soap opera means tho, or conveys.
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
there may be crossover, i guess, but like it's not terribly hard to be precise. especially if it's something you think is worth arguing about!
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
again, weird. i don't have anything against the soap opera as a form. like the romance novel, i honestly think it's maligned and ignored largely because it's so wholly and successfully "for women". for that reason, i think it's interesting to point out the fact that soap-opera-like dramas have recently become widely popular by managing to distance themselves from the scoffed-at genre without giving up its essential character and appeal.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
lol, you think romance novels are maligned bc they're wholly and successfully 'for women'? i'm not speaking for all women, but i know a few who would consider that some condescending bullshit.
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
calling something a soap opera is immediately minimizing its significance and suggesting that the themes that are important are more about the dynamics of who is fucking who (wonderful discourse, btw, and makes for excellent gossip and I completely understand why ppl love soap operas) than things that, idk, matthew weiner might claim mad men is about.
i do notice that mad men is one of the most gossiped-about (twitter, tumblr, etc) shows on the internet.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
obviously! I only meant by that distinction (between "episodic" and "novelistic") simply that if ANYTHING is new about tv drama in the last 15 years then its a different form of narrative than has historically been the case on tv. admittedly this is a small difference in a lot of ways and has lots of historical precedents, but then what doesnt? I think if you wanna claim there's no difference between Mad Men and, say, Dallas you might be obscuring as much as you are revealing.
― ryan, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
no offense to all concerned but i gotta remember not to check this thread until a new episode comes out.
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl),
the gif above makes me think he's gonna die in an airplane accident coming back from Vietnam.
― kraudive, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not sure. i'm speculating more than making an argument. i do notice that the soap opera and the romance novel are similar fictional forms in certain respects. similar in theme and subject, and similar in audience. they're also similar in how comprehensively ignored they are by critics. there isn't a comparable, male-identified fictional approach that's so completely dismissed.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
do u think sandra brown is more critically maligned than marilyn robinson because she's more truly speaking to the experience of women???
also "there isn't a comparable, male-identified fictional approach that's so completely dismissed."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Zenescope1.jpg
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
that's not at all what i'm saying. i'm saying that i sometimes think that romance novels and soap operas are so comprehensively dismissed because they appeal almost exclusively to women, and perhaps because their area of concern is so tightly focused on simplified and/or idealized depictions of romantic relationships to the exclusion of all else.
comic books have a huge and "respectable" critical establishment attached to them. people take them very seriously. not at all comparable to soaps and harlequin romance novels in that regard.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
actually, i studied amatory fiction shortly in grad school
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517J-jqXPOL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:06 (eleven years ago) link
it could be that you're no aware of any critical discourse around romance novels + soap operas. which is okay. but you speak with such authority!
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
not* aware
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
comic books have a huge and "respectable" critical establishment attached to them
uh
(also the industry is dying cuz no one buys comics fwiw)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
perhaps in academia (everything has some sort of academic discourse around it, goes w/out saying), but you point me at an even semi-popular publication like the comics journal that deals with romance novels or soap operas, and i'll eat my hat.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
health of the genre is beside the point, there's a lot of intelligent and serious criticism of current comics out there, written by both men and women. comics are part of mainstream pop, are often made into popular films.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
the comics journal is the lone publication of critical discourse around comics and it is not semi-popular and never was, it's barely stayed afloat
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_Opera_Digest ?
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
contenderizer, i don't know if there's a point to this or not so i'm just going to make one up for you.
"i compared mad men to soap operas bc i suspect soap operas are unfairly maligned* and i'm trying to demonstrate how things that are derided in soap operas are found in abundance in mad men."
"what ppl often deride in soap operas are poor acting performances and sloppy writing, not stories focusing on relationships which are found in many genres, not just soap operas."
i guess then we could say, idk, "i think citing 'poor acting performances' and 'sloppy writing' in soap operas are actually unfair critiques of particular traditions of acting + writing that appeal predominately to women and should be evaluated on their own terms, not by comparison to other genres."
and then i could say, "well, ppl generally praise the acting and writing of mad men. if what distinguishes soap operas from other non-marginalized media is the unfairly maligned acting + writing, presumably that means mad men is not a soap opera."
and then idk, we find something more productive to do
*tho i don't watch them myself and have not started an ilx thread about them
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
it's not lone, it's just the most prominent voice of its kind. and the fact that it's a nice product is neither here nor there. there is no comparable critical discourse and serious-taking that accompanies soap operas and romance novels.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
nice = niche
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
"what ppl often deride in soap operas are poor acting performances and sloppy writing, not stories focusing on relationships which are found in many genres, not just soap operas."i guess then we could say, idk, "i think citing 'poor acting performances' and 'sloppy writing' in soap operas are actually unfair critiques of particular traditions of acting + writing that appeal predominately to women and should be evaluated on their own terms, not by comparison to other genres."and then i could say, "well, ppl generally praise the acting and writing of mad men. if what distinguishes soap operas from other non-marginalized media is the unfairly maligned acting + writing, presumably that means mad men is not a soap opera."
i agree that mad men and other contemporary episodic dramas have distinguished themselves from traditional soap operas in many ways - i touched on that a few posts back
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
^ weekly, prime-time dramas, i mean
... ok, u win. i'm out. have fun.
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
contendo is winnar
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Breaking_Away_(TV_series),_cast.jpg
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
^almost redeems the whole exchange
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
I'm reminded of that interview that Miley Cyrus and Nicholas Sparks did in a bookstore when their not-successful film The Last Song was coming out. The interviewer, or maybe it was Miley, made a comment about Sparks writes great melodrama, and Sparks got angry and said, "I do NOT write melodrama. I write DRAMA." He then went on to pick up an early Hemingway and say "THIS is what I write."
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
lol, wish i'd seen that
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
actually maybe he was talking about he's a "Fiction" writer and not a "Romance" writer. I can't remember. He did slag off Blood Meridian and said McCarthy couldn't write - or something to that effect. lolz a plenty.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
i think it's interesting to point out the fact that soap-opera-like dramas have recently become widely popular by managing to distance themselves from the scoffed-at genre without giving up its essential character and appeal.
yes. I think it's interesting to look at the ways they distance themselves from shows like Dallas and Dynasty.
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 01:30 (eleven years ago) link
in EL comics srs critical discourse there's only TCJ and IJOCA, and you excluded academia, so that counts out IJOCA, and TCJ got fkn CANCELLED three years ago*, so you are talking out of your windflappy arse wrt "huge". if you're not, then cite your other examples
*Groth's bookstore reboot last year was a success, but that could be largely bcz Amazon were selling it at 30% of cover. anyway bringing it back as a once-a-year publication puts it on the level of an academic journal, and certainly goes against "huge."
The new website edition is great, of course, but it's literally comicscomics.blogspot.com with a CMS
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Friday, 25 May 2012 01:38 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno, students read the Maus books as literature in college classes; Dan Clowes' stuff is being shown at a local art museum.
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 01:41 (eleven years ago) link
hate to break it to you but college classes are academia
and "a local art museum"* is not "huge" on a global scale
and neither of those are critical culture.
*(the Parille/Buenaventura is coming out on ACA, which puts it on exactly the same footing as the Hignite/Crane Xaime joint from 2010 [which I picked up remaindered in an uni bookshop last week, lol])
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Friday, 25 May 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
how are academia and an art museum not part of "critical culture"?
anyway, comics vs. romance novels isn't a fair comparison, as "comics" is a medium, and "romance novel" is only a genre.
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 02:35 (eleven years ago) link
exactly, and the web is littered with serious, smart and informed comics crit/appreciation. we've even got a board for comics here. publishers like fantagraphics and D&Q exist to satisfy the demand for literate, artistically sophisticated comics. graphic novels get coverage in the new york times sunday books section. movies of all sorts are regularly based on comics and are taken as seriously as films of any other sort. the importance of superheroes as 20th century icons and the "brilliance" of writers like grant morrison and alan moore are often mentioned in the mainstream press. comic books have an increasingly respectable place in the pop discourse - even as comics publishers struggle to survive in the digital age.
none of this is really true of romance novels and soap operas, especially if we define these things narrowly as harlequin-style novels and daytime soaps. outside their own fandom, they're ignored to the extent that they aren't derided. it seems to be generally assumed that they're worthless, but it's hard to say, because there's so little mainstream criticism devoted to them as they currently exist. they're invisible culture, generally regarded as worthless and disposable junk just as comics were up until the late 20th century.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
otm, good point. i was accepting the comparison for argument's sake, since mordy brought it up a while back. even if we adjust the frame to take "superhero comics" as an equivalent to romance novels and daytime soaps, i think the former are treated with a great deal more respect than the latter in the pop-critical discourse.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
lol, my previous post beginning w/ "exactly..." was a response to sarahell:
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
are the Twilight books considered romance novels?
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
my instinct is to say "no", that they're generally viewed as young adult fantasy novels ("for girls"), but they're clearly a hybrid of that and the romance novel.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 02:55 (eleven years ago) link
haha, i'm just pulling a you and playing devil's advocate!
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 02:55 (eleven years ago) link
lol, i think this discussion is horribly annoying to everyone who isn't me anyway
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 02:56 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not annoyed by it, but maybe we should get back to Joan airplane gifs
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 02:57 (eleven years ago) link
well your continued discussion of the critical legitimacy of comics is horribly annoying to most ppl
― call all destroyer, Friday, 25 May 2012 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
you seem to be easily annoyed, call all destroyer
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
lol when was the last time we even interacted, sarahell?
― call all destroyer, Friday, 25 May 2012 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
i think it was on the knoxville thread where you said some perfectly decent other ilxor was the worst poster ever and you were annoyed. it was about a year ago, though!
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 03:01 (eleven years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Friday, 25 May 2012 03:03 (eleven years ago) link
it was the max doing coke with Bugs Bunny day!
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:58 PM (6 minutes ago)
the voice of the (most) people
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
Wow what on earth are you guys talking about
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 25 May 2012 04:22 (eleven years ago) link
soaps, supes, etc
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 04:43 (eleven years ago) link
seems kinda off topic
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Friday, 25 May 2012 04:50 (eleven years ago) link
it got that way, yah
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Friday, 25 May 2012 04:51 (eleven years ago) link
remember season 1 harry, who, upon cheating on his marriage for the first time, did (what i interpreted as) all the 'right things,' ie demonstrating seemingly sincere remorse and waiting patiently and humbly to be let back home? what happened to that guy? when exactly did harry become so... lecherous?
paul's line about no one liking him was amazing. story wise there wasn't a lot to his arc that demanded he specifically be brought back; the whole hare krishna thing could technically have been done with any "former sterling cooper employee x, now down on his luck." but there were echoes of his old pathos and ill concealed desperation to be well regarded that made the whole thing more meaningful.
i've always understood it to be a meta joke that don and joan haven't ever hooked up because it would be too obvious? and i'm fine with them dancing around that, as they did in this episode, but i really don't want to see an actual romantic arc between them...
also i can't tell what they're building up to with don and megan. but i like that megan is making don consider how he wants to balance his life, whereas previously if, for example, he became frustrated with his home life, he would throw all his eggs in the career basket and wait for that to fulfill him. (and that sort of behavior, of course, is betty's m.o.)
― phantompenguin, Friday, 25 May 2012 06:55 (eleven years ago) link
i'm fine with them dancing around that, as they did in this episode
I never get a WILL THEY/WON'T THEY feeling from scenes with Don and Joan, but I also didn't expect Lane to impulsively kiss Joan a few weeks ago. So yeah, I hope Weiner don't throw that curveball. He's probably smart enough to ever even think about it.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 25 May 2012 06:59 (eleven years ago) link
*never even
I thought Lane's impulsive kiss was a pretty great moment.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Friday, 25 May 2012 07:11 (eleven years ago) link
The Lane kiss was great, kind of like he was completing the act--he defeated the enemy and now was getting to kiss the girl THE END.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 25 May 2012 07:24 (eleven years ago) link
So last season when Megan said that her mother's skin care regime was just to splash cold water on her face.... we saw all the make-up her mother wears a few episodes ago. So was that just a lie? There is no way splashing cold water on her face will get all that stuff off. So was she being a bit strategic then?
― *tera, Saturday, 26 May 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
Her mom seems like a "do as I say, not as I do" sort.
― Jaq, Saturday, 26 May 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
i bet when they wrote that line of megan's they didn't even know where the character was going, let alone that her mother would turn out to be famous actor julia ormond
that or megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!
― goole, Saturday, 26 May 2012 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
Of course she was lying--wouldn't you if you came from such miserable stock?
But really, goole otm.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 26 May 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
I'd choose Megan's mom over Megan solely for animalistic reasons.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 26 May 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!
― JacobSanders, Saturday, 26 May 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
julia ormond vs freddie mercury
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 26 May 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
In a real soap opera, the main character's marriage would not have taken place off-screen between seasons. It would have been milked for all it was worth onscreen.
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Sunday, 27 May 2012 04:38 (eleven years ago) link
of course, of course. this is fauxp opera.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Sunday, 27 May 2012 05:57 (eleven years ago) link
what kind of wedding did don and megan have, anyway?
― phantompenguin, Sunday, 27 May 2012 06:25 (eleven years ago) link
a soapy one
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Sunday, 27 May 2012 06:29 (eleven years ago) link
― phantompenguin, Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:25 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
a fictional one.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 27 May 2012 12:23 (eleven years ago) link
just rewatched this, Megan's quote is "i think you've seen most of it" which I am definitely taking as:1) "since you just walked in without being invited"2) "but you'll never see the bedroom"
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 27 May 2012 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
Why "you will never see the bedroom"?
― *tera, Monday, 28 May 2012 01:35 (eleven years ago) link
Creepy, creepy Pete.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 02:14 (eleven years ago) link
I want him to be disemboweled slowly and painfully.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 28 May 2012 02:15 (eleven years ago) link
Can we go back to that "sociopath" discussion?
― dan selzer, Monday, 28 May 2012 02:27 (eleven years ago) link
this thread is going to be 'fun' this week
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 28 May 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
"you will never see the bedroom" because you ain't never gonna have that man ever again and i will
When this show _is_ soap opera, it is terrible shitty soap opera. This was bad pretty much start to finish this week.
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 May 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
Are we ready to dub this the best season yet? Because I am.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 03:10 (eleven years ago) link
This was bad pretty much start to finish this week.
?!
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
ehhhh my initial reaction to that ep was....not good
― call all destroyer, Monday, 28 May 2012 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
I must obviously want different things from this show than other people.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 03:13 (eleven years ago) link
maybe. this really rankled.
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 May 2012 03:27 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I should probably peace out of this thread, I have a bad feeling about this.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 28 May 2012 03:35 (eleven years ago) link
god that ep left a bad taste in my mouththat sentence is not an invitation for in appropriate puns
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 28 May 2012 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
I know why Ginsburg would hate Megan so much, but why does Ginsburg hate Megan so much?
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
"car guys are a bunch of creeps""they're all a bunch of creeps"
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 28 May 2012 04:51 (eleven years ago) link
i know no one is talking abt this now but i thought the soap opera thing was more about 'lets just admit a huge part of our enjoyment in this is about getting caught up in the dramatic emotional lives of people portrayed, and isn't really about some high-minded subversion of anything'
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Monday, 28 May 2012 04:58 (eleven years ago) link
Ugh this was the worst. I mean a fine episode but eurgh.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 28 May 2012 05:25 (eleven years ago) link
I had a hard time watching it. Except the Peggy stuff was great.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 28 May 2012 05:26 (eleven years ago) link
really wanted a conversation this week between Joan and Peggy where they said "I'm so MAD at these MEN!"
― I DIED, Monday, 28 May 2012 05:34 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy interviewing and resigning was so good
― I DIED, Monday, 28 May 2012 05:35 (eleven years ago) link
I was thinking two things during Peggy's physical exit:
"Is Joan going to slip out and actually say goodbye? Nope, guess not.""OH NOES THAT ELEVATOR DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. DON'T DIE! Okay, whew."
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 05:37 (eleven years ago) link
what did lane call pete earlier this season? a "grimy little pimp"? and now he really is, and lane's no better. you could argue that lane is worse, since he essentially needed the jaguar deal to go through to cover his embezzlement and he talked joan into a deal that only benefits her if the company is solvent, which might still be questionable even though they got jaguar.
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Monday, 28 May 2012 05:39 (eleven years ago) link
ha ha i was worried about peggy plummeting to her death too! every time someone uses the elevator now it's very stressful
With two episodes left, I'm wondering a) will Lane get caught? and b) will Don cheat?
Lane might get caught, but I think this will be the only season that Don doesn't cheat (look for that to begin happening next season).
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 05:54 (eleven years ago) link
Lane is on suicide watch imo
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 28 May 2012 05:55 (eleven years ago) link
lane and pete can jump off the roof holding hands afaic
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:00 (eleven years ago) link
Poor Ken Cosgrove doesn't have anyone to be in a pact with now.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
joan's "meeting" while don pitched jaguar was one of the saddest things i've ever seen on television. horrible, depressing episode, but great, too. loved peggy smiling at the elevator as the kinks kick in.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:11 (eleven years ago) link
Sometimes I wonder how Vincent Kartheiser even sleeps at night.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
by not owning a toilet iirc
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
I felt nauseous throughout, and at the beginning I thought it was so ham-fisted and silly that this would genuinely be the worst episode in the show's history, but even as the cross-cutting between the pitch and Joan's night with that creep featured a speech that was so bloody on-the-nose (DRINK!) it still worked and kind of devastated me. Even that reveal that the conversation with Don in her apartment had already happened should have irked me a lot more than it did. The ending was great though, and I can't stress how awesome the Peggy stuff was, even though I loved having her in that office.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:15 (eleven years ago) link
figure she'll be back before too long. there's always next season...
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:17 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not looking forward to where this thread is going to go, but i probably won't be able to look away either. sigh.
― mario bataille (get bent), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:20 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know if she'll come back to SCDP, but I'd love to see this develop into a "student becomes the master" thing a couple times.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 06:20 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i suppose competing houses is a logical step
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:22 (eleven years ago) link
I just hope they can divide the time better than they have with Betty. Though I know the oddness of the storyline was also partly to write in Jones' pregnancy.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:35 (eleven years ago) link
Wow. Everybody loves the corny Krishna episode, but when cathartic events actually occur to central characters, folks here are ambivalent. Dang.
― Leon Septamost, Monday, 28 May 2012 06:48 (eleven years ago) link
peggy leaving was so low-key that it seemed like she was ambivalent about it until the very last moment when the music came on.
the speech at the end to the jaguar guys was tremendously depressing. and yet it's kind of impressive that draper even managed to work the unreliability of the car into the sales pitch
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 28 May 2012 06:59 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know if weare ambivalent. Just kind of shell-shocked by Joan being prostituted by Pete and manipulated by Lane.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 28 May 2012 07:02 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not ambivalent. I thought this was amazing.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 28 May 2012 07:13 (eleven years ago) link
daria otm. Peggy's smile at the elevator was some kind of brilliant.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 28 May 2012 07:14 (eleven years ago) link
welp, Lane's days are numbered afaict. with Joan a partner the company has no use for him, and she is bound to discover his embezzlement = dude is doomed.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 28 May 2012 13:42 (eleven years ago) link
but yeah omg this episode was depressing
i don't know if Lane will ever get found out, this is a company full of creatives and secretaries after all!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 28 May 2012 14:20 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, the only person who's in a position to discover his act would be Joan and I think Lane burned that bridge last night. Should she find out about it, I don't think she'll be at all amenable to helping him cover his tracks.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
if Peggy doesn't at least offer to build him a bridge out then she gets to be a shit like everyone else on the show, damn you Peggy
this was so great and everyone was so horrible, poor Joanie. Hendricks and Kartheiser can have their Emmys now imo.
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Monday, 28 May 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
ya, i don't get Peggy treating Cosgrove like crap. seemed to come out of nowhere.but good on her for moving on. very happy for that fake tv person.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 28 May 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
I was proud of Good Guy Ken, telling Pete off, saying 'Absolutely not!' to the client's suggestion they order a second round (have to get home and write, after all!)
It was shitty to see PEggy leave without saying goodbye to people(!) and especially for breaking her pact with Ken. But she's Don now, and that's a very Don way to do it all (except he never left Sterling Cooper, except for SCDP.)
I applauded Joan's "you're mixing two different stories." She may have chosen to sleep with him to secure her future (literally sleeping her way to the top - ugh - but if I were in her position in that era, I might've as well) but she's subtly indicating that she's beautiful AND intelligent, and he is neither in particular.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 15:58 (eleven years ago) link
We might get to see Kurt & Smitty at Peggy's new job! And I still pine for Sal. Was nice to see Freddy Rumsen - the one who had *actually* made the first positive change in PEggy's life!
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
saying 'Absolutely not!' to the client's suggestion they order a second round
Nah, that "absolutely not" was to the client saying "it's on me".
― Jaq, Monday, 28 May 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
everything in this episode "came out of nowhere"; out of character bullshit from a to z
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 May 2012 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, a second round on him (they'd had the first round with him..) - that's what I meant but I can see how it may have been unclear.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 16:17 (eleven years ago) link
(xp)
maybe this whole episode was one of Pete Campbell's scuzzy dreams
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 28 May 2012 16:19 (eleven years ago) link
and when he wakes up next episode Joan is throwing airplanes at his head
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 28 May 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
ya, i don't get Peggy treating Cosgrove like crap. seemed to come out of nowhere.
she was in a foul mood, didn't see any more in it than that
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 28 May 2012 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
jesus the plotline with joan. this really tips the show over into...something. i don't know how we're going to relate to the characters from now on knowing they are capable of this. interesting that don's transition from antihero to hero seems complete with him being the only one to beg off on this.
how is joan going to be treated by the partners now that they know what she'll do? even if she has money now, what are her workplace interactions going to be? do we trust campbell (or hell, even sterling) not to let on about this?
jesus.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 28 May 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
they really saved up a ton of plot for this one, huh?
I think this comment on the Basket of Kisses website sums up better than I ever could how this isn't exactly a character change for Joan. It's a bit more obvious, more direct, but she has been dealing with being treated as a body her whole life (this is a woman who chose to marry her rapist to obtain her goal of being married to a man who could support her and who would give her a family - and is smart enough that you know she recognized it as rape):
While it definitely makes me sick to my stomach, yes, I find it believable — because I’ve seen it happen. This is 1967, not 2012. You can’t/won’t understand the mindset of women then if you didn’t live it then. Watching TV shows, documentaries, movies and reading books is not going to really help anyone understand it. This was so much more of a man’s world than it is now, and women had so little power that it really isn’t comprehensible from the mindset of 2012. It just isn’t.
This is coming from someone who adores the character Joan; she’s one of my top three favorites on this show. I really do adore her. And I feel like I see her clearly.
Joan’s been exchanging herself for things she’s wanted since season one, and if you remember, she suggested to Peggy in S1E1 that she do this also. Throughout five seasons, she’s given herself away, in exchange for dinners, for nights out, for jewels, furs, for birds, and for nothing. We’ve seen so many, many examples of this.
This was what she was taught, by her mother and by the culture she grew up and lived in still in 1967. Her “value,” her “skill set,” her thing to offer in the marketplace was/is her extraordinary beauty, her body and her sexuality. This was what men — the power players and the power brokers — always responded to and what they gave value to. Joan knows her value in the marketplace.
No judgment here from me. It was the way it was. Joan is in her mid-30′s, she has a new baby, she’s unexpectedly a single mother, she lives and works at the whims of men. We may not be seeing it on screen, but you can bet that Joan has seen her first lines, gray hairs and the beginning of sagging of certain body parts. She knows her value is going to start to diminish. Now before anyone blows a gasket — I’m NOT referring to what I see as her value, or we as viewers see as her value, but what Joan HERSELF sees as her value, and what she sees and has confirmed each and every day.
Joan made a good deal, when offered the chance, by her life experiences. Would I have made it in 1967? I didn’t make that particular decision but I made many that were based on similar cultural mindsets and beliefs of the times I lived in, in those years. Would you? Maybe, maybe not. It’s 2012, and we’re not walking in her shoes living her life.
Was she sick before, during and afterward? I’ll bet you everything I own that she was. Was she diminished by this decision? Yes. Undoubtedly. Would she make it again, given the chance? Probably. Joan is doing the best she knows to do, living in the world that existed in 1967, given what she knew, what she was taught about her value, and in a world dominated and driven by men.
None of us here, now, have the right to judge her. The fact that I’m still sick to my stomach at 3:35 am and not sleeping is more to do with the powerful reminders that MW gave us in tonight’s show about the world that existed then for women, that was even worse in the years before that, and that still exists today. Matt did a superb job. And it’s good that it’s so disturbing for so many of us tonight.http://www.lippsisters.com/2012/05/28/recap-the-other-woman/
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
I liked how in the middle of all the Pete rottenness, they threw in him reading Goodnight Moon to his kid.
Also: am I mistaken, or does he have copies of the Earth pictures Rory (and others) talked about pinned to the wall of his office?
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 28 May 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't notice the moon pictures - but I did go to a friend's apartment and SHE had them framed on her wall, one week after I'd seen the Mad Men (they were on the wall before the episode; she's a science journalist.)
Who knows if Greg can take 2.5% of SDCP from Joan, seeing as they are mid-divorce?
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
from tom and lorenzo
Which brings us to our next point: The partners will never forget that Joan literally slept her way to a partnership. This part of the story has us confused quite a bit. It doesn’t make much sense to us. Joan, as we know her, wouldn’t agree to such a thing, no matter how much money was offered, simply because she would know that from this point on, the most important people in her career will always think of her as a prostitute. After all the hard work she’d done to establish herself as a highly competent manager, we’re having a near-impossible time believing that she would do this. In other words, we believe that Joan could sleep with a man she’s not attracted to in order to get something out of it. In fact, we believe that Joan has done some version of that before in her life, and we believe there’s a cynical, practical part of her that would just shut herself off and get through the act, knowing that the benefits could be life-changing. What we don’t believe at all is that she’d expose herself to the level of judgment and possible ridicule she would be receiving from people like Roger and Don.
i basically agree w/ this.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 28 May 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
Pete framed it in such a way that it seemed like he'd been urged by Don and Roger to do this - she told him off for discussing it with the other partners. As far as she knew, they'd all "decided" she would/should do it and so she was already a whore in their eyes. The context of finding out that Don had vetoed it but told her AFTER she'd already done it was so heartbreaking, watching that tiny amount of sadness on her face, under her mask. But I figure if people are going to think that way about her without even waiting for her decision, it's reasonable that she'd decide she might as well go ahead and do it. My husband said after her contract discussion with Pete "at least she's doing this for HER company now, not the company she works for."
Hey wait a second - the client is gone to bed and Joan, her Mother and Don are still roaming around? It's not even so late that Don decided to wait until the next day to drop by and discourage her? Damn, Grandpa, stay up til it gets dark at least..
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i raised an eyebrow @ the timing of all that
― johnny crunch, Monday, 28 May 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
What we don’t believe at all is that she’d expose herself to the level of judgment and possible ridicule she would be receiving from people like Roger and Don.
finefinemusic otm in responding to this. she did it because she felt that all the partners, including don, wanted her to. that suggestion must have come as a huge, dispiriting blow, and i'm not surprised she acquiesced under the circumstances, if not happily. "if that's all you see me as, then fine. but it's going to cost you."
regardless of her workplace situation, how the other partners view her and whatever rumors as may float around, she knows that she and her child will now more than likely be financially secure for life.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 28 May 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
As far as the timing thing: Jaguar guy had a wife so I assumed they were going it out of the way in the evening and then he had to get back home to his wife.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 28 May 2012 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
Very interesting to see Weiner play so much of that same scene twice. I was wondering how long he was going to do it, and ending it on Joan's realization that Don didn't cosign was perfect.
― polyphonic, Monday, 28 May 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
btw cheouggggh offered peggy $19,000 in 1967 money. what would that be today?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
Not sure, but it's $7500 more than what Joan was making pre-Jaguar.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
$122674.91according to http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
that's a nice sum huh.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
Go Peggy!
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
for someone who hasn't hit 30, in particular. damn.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
xpoat, actually $6500 more.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
i smell spinoff! diary of a mad adwoman amirite.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
I've been saying for at least a couple seasons that the focus will shift to Peggy and away from Don by the end of the show's run. This could either be the beginning or debunk my theory altogether.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
What cost $12500 in 1967 would cost $80707.18 in 2010.
joan was doing aight, though NYC cost of living makes it tougher
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
NYC still had rent control in 1967, though. I would imagine it was comparatively cheaper to live there even as the 70s were approaching.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
Egads, according to that same site, the 50 large they offered Joan comes out to $332190.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 28 May 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
That's still no "indecent proposal".
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 28 May 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
xp to Gukbe: makes sense. I thought dude was about to doze off but coulda been post coital sleepiness.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 28 May 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
Who has done more for Peggy, Don or Feddy Rumsen?
― *tera, Monday, 28 May 2012 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
*Freddy I mean
― *tera, Monday, 28 May 2012 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
Freddy peed on his floor so Peggy got his office, kind of a big deal
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 28 May 2012 23:26 (eleven years ago) link
I liked the chemistry between those two. I like Freddy Rumsen.
― *tera, Monday, 28 May 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
I can understand why Joan did what she did in the same way I can understand why people commit suicide. Her career is basically over now, she will never go any farther or be able to accomplish anything else - she grabbed the brass ring for her kid and fell on her sword, more or less.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 28 May 2012 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
I really hope Peggy's leaving of SCDP sticks, and I imagine if it does they'll devote a significant amount of screen time to her at the new place. Could make for some great stories. It makes me wonder if Wiener has been planning it from the very start.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 28 May 2012 23:56 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know if Joan's career is over or not. As this ep made clear, she only had so much respect to begin with. I don't think that what she's done has diminished her cred in the eyes of at least a few of the partners, and meanwhile she has a stake in decisions now, which she can roll into a fair amount if she pleases.
― s.clover, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I'd like to see her take charge in a really awesome way. and by "really awesome way" somehow make Pete lose his job and have him die a horrible death homeless and alone.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think that what she's done has diminished her cred in the eyes of at least a few of the partners, and meanwhile she has a stake in decisions now, which she can roll into a fair amount if she pleases.
Roger certainly is gonna think less of her. Don isn't going to respect her anymore. Pete never respected her to begin with. Lane is now completely compromised and increasingly a liability, his respect is going to be largely worthless. Cooper is the hardest to read.
These are all men who are both going to be grateful for her decision and resentful of her price. She will be a junior partner with limited room to maneuver and few resources - with Peggy gone, she has no allies in the office (apart from Lane, with whom there is going to be some kind of showdown/reckoning anyway).
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 00:38 (eleven years ago) link
Don isn't going to respect her anymore
Dunno if I'd go that far. Their bond is pretty deep.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
I think Don will have an understanding of the reasons. I think he's more upset with the company and himself than he is with Joan.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
damn, the stuff with Joan was really depressing. Not sure what to think of it really. Hamm was amazing in Peggy's resignation scene (as was she, but him especially), going from kind of a blase reaction to bewildered anger to sadness
― Number None, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 01:15 (eleven years ago) link
I think the biggest thing that happened on this episode was the revelation that Dale works at SCDP. Dude is on this show maybe once a season, and I'm always surprised he still works there.
― LaMonte, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 01:56 (eleven years ago) link
wasn't he there as a freelancer?
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 02:00 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, maybe. But I got the impression he was an account guy in season 1. Then he popped up once or twice in subsequent seasons.
― LaMonte, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 02:02 (eleven years ago) link
"She will be a junior partner with limited room to maneuver and few resources"
We'll see. I strongly suspect Joan will outlast Lane and Pete at the very least.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
Joan has a juicy tell-all to pen in the '70s, and bad Mr. Rory will "accidentally" shoot Pete with his own gun soonish.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
I kinda think we won't be seeing much of Peggy anymore, actually. When these characters leave SDCP we don't see much of them any longer. I mean, a bit, sure. But I doubt there will be much Peggy unless she comes back.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:30 (eleven years ago) link
Pete is worse than Duck.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:31 (eleven years ago) link
seems weird tho. after Don she was the most important character.
xpoast
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:37 (eleven years ago) link
although icing main characters seems to be a theme in my fav shows right now.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:38 (eleven years ago) link
like i said, sitcom spinoff!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:39 (eleven years ago) link
well this was ugly, but in its ugliness it had some life and forward motion which i'm realizing was kind of missing from this season so far.
i think all the angles and justifications and reasons for the joan thing were laid out pretty well. plus all of the ironies of who knows what about it. i don't really know what to think about it but worrying about 'respect' can be spun out in a bunch of different ways. nobody can doubt she's a trooper.
plus all of the ironies of who knows what about it: pete tells don "it was her idea" (but it wasn't, it was lane's) (and she only agreed thinking don was in favor) etc etc
the partnership stake being lane's idea is p interesting.
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:00 (eleven years ago) link
peggy and don's scene was out of sight.
though honestly lane's money trouble is one of those hanging problems that strains my credulity. are we supposed to think that being hard up is shameful enough that he can't find a solution openly? i don't think having the government come after your money would be to this group, esp. cooper the randian.
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:04 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not so sure that Joan is going to lose out from this - she is the person who keeps the entire business running, basically. Don figured out from day 1 not to cross her. I don't see how it changes a lot except that she'll presumably make more money.
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:11 (eleven years ago) link
freddy in the diner was fun. he's the only everyman type on the show who'll enjoy sitting in a normal diner, working his way through coffee and pie around normal people. anyone else on the show would be like "oh i suppose i will deign to sit amongst these plebeians, just this once."
i found this to be a heartbreaking episode not just for joan, but also for don. when don registered that joan had gone through with the deal, i thought i saw something in him die a little.
Hamm was amazing in Peggy's resignation scene (as was she, but him especially), going from kind of a blase reaction to bewildered anger to sadness
quoted for truth.
― phantompenguin, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:13 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like Joan fucking that Jaguar Jagoff was the darkest moment in this whole series. I mean, I don't think you can watch five seasons of this show without being completely in love with her, and you just don't want the woman you love making that decision.
Also, I love Lane, but I really hope he gets caught. It's just fair. Maybe Don'll challenge him to fisticuffs over the forged signature.
― Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:18 (eleven years ago) link
"we would have given you the money!"
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:19 (eleven years ago) link
The Joan-Peggy one-two is probably the hardest hit he's had since Anna died. xpst
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy's new job is a happy moment for me though. She wasn't appreciated there. Good for her.
― Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:25 (eleven years ago) link
Don's a wimp.
― Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I didn't find this episode all that out-there and not everyone is in love with Joan - she's not terribly kind or supportive to women who aren't deferential toward her. the show is good in that it does make her sympathetic but she's an integral part of the culture at that office that only really allowed one woman to get promoted beyond being a secretary & then had to quit this same episode to actually advance in her career.
Joan getting raped by her fiance and then marrying him - that was dark. That was worse.
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:27 (eleven years ago) link
people keep telling me about this rape. i missed a big episode somewhere
― Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:28 (eleven years ago) link
Isn't Peggy now "lead copy" or something high up like that at the new place? Whatever it was that was written on the napkin? I don't think it was the fact that she wasn't appreciated at SCDP - though Don probably didn't show his appreciation enough - but I think she knew she had gone as far as she could go as a protege. Both Freddy and her saying that Don would have done the same thing was otm, and Don couldn't really argue with that. Beautifully done scene.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:29 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I'm not sure this was as dark as the rape episode. I think what made it feel that way was the complicity of the people involved though. It felt like they crossed a rubicon.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:30 (eleven years ago) link
xpost I assumed it was the lack of opportunities. Everywhere she turns it's "we can't put a girl on this account, we can't put a girl on that account, don't tell them you're in charge of this account, let someone else take the credit," etc. It was always done as if it was necessary to meet the client's needs but SCDP wasn't going to even try to educate the client or stand up for their own people. Seemed that Peggy kept getting stuck with all the boring work the guys weren't interested in.
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:34 (eleven years ago) link
joan has a vote now, so i imagine they'll move to some sort of situation where here stake matters in some important decision.
― s.clover, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:35 (eleven years ago) link
― homosexual II, Monday, May 28, 2012 8:30 PM (53 minutes ago)
nah, i refuse to believe it. as thermo said, after don, she's the show's most important character. like a sitcom everywoman, she's the POV through which we see the office - though i guess this is less the case now than it was during the first couple seasons. as when joan and peggy left the office's immediate orbit, i imagine the writers will track her doings for some time to come.
and fellini.kuti, otm. while the show's gone dark before, it's never hit me quite as hard as this.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:36 (eleven years ago) link
Everywhere she turns it's "we can't put a girl on this account, we can't put a girl on that account, don't tell them you're in charge of this account, let someone else take the credit," etc. It was always done as if it was necessary to meet the client's needs but SCDP wasn't going to even try to educate the client or stand up for their own people. Seemed that Peggy kept getting stuck with all the boring work the guys weren't interested in.
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, May 28, 2012 9:34 PM (1 minute ago)
also, don's been a complete asshole to her for q
... uite some time. it's obvious that she respects the hell out of him, and just as obvious that he views her as a nuisance whenever she isn't fading functionally into the background.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:38 (eleven years ago) link
"OH NOES THAT ELEVATOR DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. DON'T DIE! Okay, whew."― Johnny Fever, Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:37 PM (Yesterday) ha ha i was worried about peggy plummeting to her death too! every time someone uses the elevator now it's very stressful― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:39 PM (Yesterday)
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:37 PM (Yesterday)
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:39 PM (Yesterday)
lol, yeah, i was worried about drunk roger falling down the elevator shaft last week
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:41 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy's gonna get busted for weed, and Don'll have to bail her out.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:42 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think he views her as a nuisance she isn't in the background. I think he expects her to be able to operate on her own, and he definitely has a "you're a subordinate and you'll do what your told" mentality a lot of the time, but that's to be expected. She had no where further to go at SCDP as long as Don was there, and they both knew it.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:43 (eleven years ago) link
So many moments in the series when Don behaves like an asshole for reasons I can't understand. Some of them I can figure out, but others - like throwing money in Peggy's face - no idea.
You know someone is going to fall down that elevator shaft in the next two weeks. Maybe Jaguar guy? I hope it's not Ken.
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:44 (eleven years ago) link
General Don frustration at his seemingly endless writer's block, I thought. Unless that convo happened shortly after the creepy Joan meeting?
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
seems impt that ginsburg came up with the line after all. i'm really beginning to love that character, and the guy who plays him.
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:53 (eleven years ago) link
there were pins set up for Ginsburg that need knocking down in the next two episodes. Though Peggy's the only one he told his weird alien/not my real dad story to, so maybe that will never come up again, thanks Matt Weiner
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:57 (eleven years ago) link
i loved Ginsburg's explanation.. something along the lines of "i was thinking about the jerks that buy these cars..." and it seemed alot like he was describing Don.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:07 (eleven years ago) link
he was definitely describing Don.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:08 (eleven years ago) link
he was trying to, but it contrasted with last week's conversation between don and joan:
"I don't know what it is. The car does nothing for me.""It's because you're happy. You don't need it."
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:17 (eleven years ago) link
Unless that convo happened shortly after the creepy Joan meeting?
I think it happened immediately after the creepy Joan meeting. Don was in no mood for niceties.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:23 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know that he was trying to describe don specifically. xp
― phantompenguin, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:24 (eleven years ago) link
I just finished watching the repeat airing from tonight and it's even more potent the second time. All of it. Don and Megan. Don and Peggy. Joan and Pete. Joan and Lane. Joan and Don. This show doesn't always excel at the actual art of acting, but it most certainly did this week.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:26 (eleven years ago) link
Thought it was a nice moment with Don and Peggy when he told her there was no way she'd be working on Jaguar - she read it as confirmation that she'd never get good work at SCDP but in that instance Don was trying to protect her after being horrified by what happened with Joan.
― I DIED, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:26 (eleven years ago) link
Oh yeah, and Joan and the sleazy dealer. When she turned around to unzip her dress and the camera switched to her face...gutwrenching.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:27 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think I can overemphasize the two most important Joan and Don scenes, either. When her head dropped as she found out Don had been overruled and when Don learned she'd been made a partner by doing it anyway. ACTING!
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:29 (eleven years ago) link
The Jaguar meeting also showed Don's value and what puts him on a different plane than Peggy or Ginsburg - he was always better at the pitch than the actual copywriting and generating ideas is a different game than selling those ideas. Can't see someone like Ginsburg pitching his concept to Jaguar and getting nearly the same response with it.
― I DIED, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:30 (eleven years ago) link
Sketchiest part of the ep for me was how little Roger had to say about the whole affair. Reeked of contrivance.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:39 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I'd say it was because now he's got two ex-wives and his family to support, but he was also trucking the lobsters.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:57 (eleven years ago) link
But really, Roger doesn't care about anything other than himself and the practicalities. He can justify anything if it gets him what he wants. He loves Joan but he's never been able to treat her as an equal. He's a pretty sleazy dude, all told.
Then again he'd blow up the Honda account by going after the Japanese because of WWII, but maybe he cares more about that then he does women.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:59 (eleven years ago) link
roger torpedoing the honda account seems like a relic from a less-developed era of the show & characters. hard to believe that the roger we've subsequently come to know would care enough about old grudges to do something like that.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:02 (eleven years ago) link
Mad Men doesn't usually get me emotional but when Jaguar creep says to Joan "Now let's see 'em" and they cut to the blank expression on her face...aw jeez louise. I could hardly watch I felt so sad. Poor Joan.
I feel like there was some weird theme with Don + losing his "power" with women?- With Megan & the audition, he says no she says eff off I'm doing it- With Joan he says you don't have to lie with the creep but it's already a done deal, he thinks he saved her only to find she did it anyway- Peggy's resignation. He can't talk her out of it.
I dunno, it just felt like a mini arc in light of the Jaguar/ownership of beautiful woman thing. Or i'm reading too much into it.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
no, that's a good catch wr2 the idea of ownership and control he was pitching to jaguar
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:09 (eleven years ago) link
It contrasts w/Pete's war against women, which really became a thing post-Rory.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:11 (eleven years ago) link
Don's relationship with women is definitely a running theme in the episode and, with regards to Megan, the season as a whole. The chauvinistic comparison of the Jaguar to a mistress is kind of a joke because it's not just some wayward fling on the side they can't control anymore, it's all the women in their lives. I think Don really likes Megan's free-spirit, independence, but he has a really hard time letting go of the way things "should be", in his mind, which is why he's been such a prick but also has eventually relented. Pete definitely set up as an opposite all season. He's not coping with the realities of women-as-people instead of women-as-objects nearly well at all.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:20 (eleven years ago) link
Don also has issues with prostitution because of his mother, which is why I don't think he'll think less of Joan for doing what she did, but rather he feels guilty for being complicit in an environment that virtually necessitates prostitution.
Maybe I'm forgetting other times, but the only time I seem to remember him with a prostitute was the one that he paid to dominate him - even at his lowest the only way he could be with a prostitute was to give her the control his mother didn't have etc etc.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:23 (eleven years ago) link
He had a hooker party w/Lane that one time too.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:26 (eleven years ago) link
ah right. nevermind then.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:27 (eleven years ago) link
started this season seeing don very much as the show's unacknowledged villain. by this point, it's hard not to see him as its only real hero.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:28 (eleven years ago) link
*ahem* male hero, make that
I think it's silly to try to look at this show as "heroes" and "villains". Everyone's trying to figure themselves out, but some more than others. Pete is definitely an asshole, but we understand why he's an asshole. Don can be a real asshole, but we always understand why.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:34 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's silly to try to look at this show as "heroes" and "villains".
― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:39 (eleven years ago) link
xp - i agree, but old habits die hard
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
i'm just not post-affectionate wr2 fictional characters. some i like, some i don't.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:42 (eleven years ago) link
It's fine to like or not like a character. my point is that it's not really the kind of dichotomy the show has any interest in.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:48 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i agree. cue endless "what the show is intersested in" vs. "what i am interested in" pas de deux.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 07:20 (eleven years ago) link
Not necessarily the end of Joan's career; everyone is, perhaps begrudgingly, indebeted to her for being the ringer on their 1st auto account, which will supposedly make the company. If anything her presence just reminds them how they were all complicit in the act.
They have always flirted with the pimp / prostitute analogy for the ad industry. This episode just drove it home (hit you over the head with it). Megan turning around in the audition, money thrown at Peggy, Don thinking he can keep her there for the right price, and the explicit discussion of pimping out Joan. Everyone is compromised, with Joan as sacrificial lamb. I viewed this episode as "the point of no return".
― Leon Septamost, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 07:41 (eleven years ago) link
have to presume the guy from jaguar will start showing up at the office next season demanding more from joan, causing stink and consternation a la lee garner jr
― ༼◍ྀ ౪ ◍ི ༽ (cozen), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 07:51 (eleven years ago) link
This episode just drove it home (hit you over the head with it). Megan turning around in the audition, money thrown at Peggy, Don thinking he can keep her there for the right price, and the explicit discussion of pimping out Joan. Everyone is compromised, with Joan as sacrificial lamb.
otm, "money thrown at Peggy, Don thinking he can keep her there for the right price" a damn good catch.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 08:13 (eleven years ago) link
"Isn't Peggy now "lead copy" or something high up like that at the new place?"
Copy Chief is what it says on the napkin, so yes.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 12:15 (eleven years ago) link
have to presume the guy from jaguar will start showing up at the office next season demanding more from joan
Even if just personally for Joan, will be p. disappointed if this doesn't have long-term ramifications of some kind.
― stet, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 12:30 (eleven years ago) link
like I can see why they dropped it as much as possible, but I always felt Peggy's baby was under-represented in terms of its plausible consequences.
― stet, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 12:32 (eleven years ago) link
You have to figure the Jaguar guy (who was on the search committee, not the actual point person?) might not get very far with Joan ever again - she's got her contract, and I doubt she signed anything that was contingent on *always* keeping the clients happy.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
i'd be surprised if he's ever in the show again
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 13:10 (eleven years ago) link
True!
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 13:15 (eleven years ago) link
Hopefully Joan will get Pete fired.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 13:22 (eleven years ago) link
Best episode since 'Carousel'.
― Love Max Ophüls of us all (Michael White), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:21 (eleven years ago) link
Babby would be between 6 and 7 now, so it's not like he/she is going to come looking for Peggy.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:23 (eleven years ago) link
btw, I feel like we just got this show back and after two more weeks it's gone again for up to (or more than) a year! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
firing pete would actually be a bad business move, and joan knows that
lane is expendable at this point
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:29 (eleven years ago) link
someone should really put together a fake opening montage for a late-60s era situation comedy called peggy, complete with bouncy theme song called "i'm on my way" or something.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
That's a great idea.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
opening credits montage, i mean.
she could take freddy rumsen, abe drexler the jewish radical journalist, her kvetching mother, the lesbian photojournalist, etc. with her! hilarity ensues!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:34 (eleven years ago) link
she should also hire away stan rizzo from SCDP.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:35 (eleven years ago) link
i'm kinda psyched for this imaginary show. if weiner did that IRL it would be kind of next-level.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
btw i'm willing to bet that by next (!) season it'll be sterling cooper draper campbell.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
I suppose Pete is the only person doing anything about new business. Bummer.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
Sal ducking his head in for a few saucy Alan Suesian quips every few minutes.
― Björk lied (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
i know this was a bit up thread, but can someone tell me what the hell " trucking the lobsters" means?!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:42 (eleven years ago) link
it's a sexual reference.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
how so
hard to put a finger on. just feels as though her having a young child out there only rarely factors into her psyche, which doesn't ring true with how I've heard the adoption experience described, even in the 1960s world of never-speak-of-it-again etc. Doesn't quite chime right.
― stet, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
maybe ted chaoughghg adopted it
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 14:58 (eleven years ago) link
which doesn't ring true with how I've heard the adoption experience described
I don't think there's a universal definition of how women react to having their children adopted.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
man just remembered Don having to fire Sal, and suggesting that he should've accepted LGJr's proposition. ~resonances~
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
I definitely don't mean to say that. Like I say, it's hard to express. The handling of it just feels to me more like "that bit of the plot is over now, thanks vm" than any sort of intended expression of an integrated character.
― stet, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
it almost seemed like the shot of the necklace being put on Joan (and her dress) a Vertigo reference. but i cant remember if the necklace in Vertigo was green (seems right though).
― ryan, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
omg, Joan is Madeline!
― Björk lied (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
catching up here...
re: Lane's financial problems goole is otm way upthread that he should've been smarter and just figured out some way to borrow the money from Don or one of the other partners who doesn't hate him (ie, not Pete). But he has his stuffy British pride to preserve, I suppose, and he's supposed to be the financial whiz.
re: prostitution/cars - am I the only one finding some rather extreme irony/cognitive dissonance between the implications of the show this season (making ads for cars = having arrived/being a whore) and the um actual car ads being made by the actors and run during the show...? META
re: Peggy spinoff show = THAT GIRL!
re: Ginsburg. So great this episode. Love this guy. His whole angle was about Don (Megan "comes and goes whenever she wants" = Ginsburg realizing that Don can't own her the way he wants to = the tagline). Which is exactly the kind of psychologically transparent pitch that is Don's bread and butter.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
and he's supposed to be the financial whiz
right but where would a green eyeshade dude be w/o complaining about a grasping tax authority? i really just don't buy this problem. every music fan knows british taxes were sky high in the 60s, why wouldn't lane be a 'tax exile' like everybody else? maybe cos his kids are still in school there (that was a plot point, right?)
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
re: Ginsburg. So great this episode. Love this guy. His whole angle was about Don (Megan "comes and goes whenever she wants" = Ginsburg realizing that Don can't own her the way he wants to = the tagline).
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
the show is giving many signs that ginsburg (and relations with don) is going to have many of the same characteristics as early peggy-don, but it will be interesting to see what's different -- ginsburg's leftism and the chip on his shoulder most obviously
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
Ginsburg is a leftist?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
no he's an alien
― mizzell, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, basically. but more office-centric.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:35 (eleven years ago) link
i mean to qualify that, it's vague, but i mean his basic contempt for all of their clients
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
I think another difference is that he feels like he could take Don's job someday
― dmr, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
yeah he seems resentful of wealth/ostentation, suspicious of power... kinda ambiguous politically but attitudes that are more commonly associated with the left I guess
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
Remember too that Roger (eventually) warned Peggy after she hired Ginsberg that his own last big hire was Pete.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
I don't recall Pete and Roger ever getting along, I wonder how that happened
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
Roger and Don went to his apartment at the end of season 3.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
Although even that's not true since strictly speaking Roger hired Ken after that, but whatever.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
Just realized Don throwing money at Peggy twice in this ep - once literally - neither times she takes it.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
I meant how was Pete initially hired at Sterling Cooper. In S1 he's already a junior account man iirc
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
just catching up here but dudes how great and perfect was that kinsey thing, i expected rejoicing in this thread, cant believe yall had to ruin the fun
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
I totally rejoiced! who didn't rejoice?
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
whoever said upthread that the "nobody likes me" speech really tied together a great character arc for him was OTM
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
there was a lot of grumbling about it it seems
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
I enjoyed what a pathetic washup of a Hare Krishna he was, esp in the diner sitting there with his facepain looking all forlorn.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
facepaint
though facepain works
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
why wouldn't lane be a 'tax exile' like everybody else? maybe cos his kids are still in school there (that was a plot point, right?)
yeah you have a point about this. I believe his kids are still back there (we've never seen them, I don't think?). I don't pretend to understand the arcane workings of Great Britain what with all they're chuntering and blootering wot wot
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
"I meant how was Pete initially hired at Sterling Cooper."
I think the allude in Season 1 to the familial connection playing a big part in it.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
ya but also, the humiliation of being an exile, i mean, never ever
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
esp with his wife
i mean if he couldn't stomach asking to borrow money, there's no way he would be up for being exiled from his country
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
ha well i admit to knowing nothing about what being a tax exile really entailed. my general sense is that the rolling stones did it and then later put out steel wheels and got knighted.
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
Bee Gees did it twice (UK *and* the US)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
Slade did it, but at the same time they just stopped making so much money.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
layne had that phone call with some sort of school master about Nigel's (or some other britisher name) tuition. Think the cost of that education happening in england is one of the things making it hard for him to keep his head above water.
― mizzell, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
i admittedly dont know much about it myself, but it seems to me that being a disgraced tax outlaw would be something unthinkable to someone of lane's station in that era.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:48 (eleven years ago) link
I am officially cursing this thread for bringing back memories of Steel Wheels.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
well, you're not the only one with mixed emotions, bub.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
oh i see what u did there
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
fuck, this episode was grim. i need to go take a shower after watching this shit, damn. totally great tho. i wonder what will happen with peggy, i.e. how much of what happens to her will we see. i don't think this is a show that would be scared to let a main character disappear.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
I'm confident Peggy is one character that won't happen to.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
ya it would be pretty insane if that was the last we saw of her. i doubt it.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I doubt it too. Chaugh using her to get back at Draper seems inevitable.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
c'mon, there would totally be a shit ton of press if elizabeth moss left the show
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
forks otm
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
"disappear" a bit strong. but like yeah, i could see her being a lot less prominent.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
what if the character of peggy disappeared from the show, but "peggy" appeared as a sort of glowing floating little angel that sat on don's shoulder and gave him guidance in times of crisis?
that way, elisabeth moss would still be on the show, and there wouldn't be any press about it.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
would need to be paired with a "bad" peggy
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
that can be Sal!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
this kind of sucks b/c interactions b/t don and peggy were a highlight of this show. but you know.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
OR MAYBE THIS ENTIRE LAST EPISODE WAS A DREAM
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
I don't feel that Peggy was as instrumental in this season, so her character being reduced in prominence would make sense.
Time for Ginsburg to shine!
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
chaough said that his hire of peggy was as much about getting the dirt on don as her work itself. if she left to 'get away' from don, there's plenty of disappointment to play around with there.
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:36 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
thats why my idea is so good
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
I would like a side-story of her experiences working at the other ad agency, like zomg life outside SDCP
also isnt' that guy who hired her the dorky friend from Adventures in Babysitting? I'm too lazy to google atm
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
s1ocki i assume you're thinking of something like this?
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwju00U6zG1qzxwg8o1_500.png
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:52 (eleven years ago) link
more like this... which is supposed to be a leaked photo of jon hamm from next week's ep
http://resonancegroup.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/angeldevil-on-shoulder1.gif
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
how about
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/581/hermansddssa.JPG
L to R: stan rizzo, ginsburg, meghan, layne
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy ends up having visions of Don, too:
http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Screen-shot-2010-01-31-at-12.38.17-AM-300x158.png
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
Can't believe anyone thinks this is the end for Peggy - Don won't be able to cope without her, she's saved them too many times, can sort of see the non-Jaguar accounts falling apart without her. No guarantee she'll like her new job, the chances of Don hiring her back for a load more money are pretty high.
Amazing episode, the Joan plotline was horrible but brilliantly done. Worth remembering that Pete basically played the other partners by making out that Joan was even considering it. Cooper wasn't as outright terrible as the others but it's going to be difficult to redeem Roger and Lane from here, but really none of them other than Don come out with any credit.
I guess Joan as partner will want to know everything about the financial side of the firm, which is bad news for Lane.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link
No guarantee she'll like her new job, the chances of Don hiring her back for a load more money are pretty high.
eh I don't think this is going to happen either. no one goes back to old employers. at least, no one with any sense does.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
eh, it's TV. consonance with reality isn't a high priority.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
they've already done the "getting the band back together" bit. they aren't gonna repeat that.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
h8rs gonna http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2012/05/29/153908787/mad-men-ruminations-on-the-buying-and-selling-of-something-beautiful#more
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
My idea is going to happen. That's what's going to happen.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
amateurist misspelling three character names in one post has really got my irrational anger juices flowing.
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
no one goes back to old employers. at least, no one with any sense does.
this happens plenty.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
Keep in mind that this is a writer blogged about *crying* because her landlord wanted her to move the couch away from the wall to fix something in her apartment. I find her writing a bit unhinged at times.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 21:59 (eleven years ago) link
folx can we please talk about what might happen in terms of what kind of possibilities the writers have opened up for themselves based on what they've shown so far, not in terms of what people are totally probably gonna do in those circumstances
you are driving me fucking crazy
― goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
what might happen in terms of what kind of possibilities the writers have opened up for themselves based on what they've shown so far,
yeah by this metric I can't see Peggy going back
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
by that metric i COULD, because this is like, the third-last episode of the season
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
but i doubt they would
I think Don leaving SCDP is actually a real possibility now and to be honest who knows where the show goes then and how these people interact.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
usually you dont add a radical plot pt like that just to undo it in the next ep (xp talking about peggy leaving)
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
I'm scared of Ginsberg coming into prominence. He's got this dark spiteful streak, like he could easily become unhinged. I don't see him gaining the confidence of the partners. On the other hand, he may represent mass culture's movement toward more mean spirited, self aware, or absurd content. His mock-ups had that Mad Magazine vibe.
― Leon Septamost, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
"He's got this dark spiteful streak, like he could easily become unhinged."
Compared to Pete Campbell I think he's incredibly well-adjusted actually.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
maybe Peggy will get Don a job lol
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 23:00 (eleven years ago) link
xp yeah, ginsberg seems better adjusted than pete and even don
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
he's not mean-spirited or spiteful, he's just... kind of childlike.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like i've known lots of jewish kids like him at camp and stuff. smart, emotionally immature, don't understand why they arent' getting everything they deserve
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 00:35 (eleven years ago) link
maybe Don will quit the advertising business altogether and give acting a shot, so he can work with Megan again
― silverfish, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
maybe they will all travel through time to an alternate universe in an episode called Mad Men in Black 3
― sarahell, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
if it's mad men, it'll have to take place in an elevator
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 04:47 (eleven years ago) link
Who has Ginsberg shown even a passing emotional interest in?
― Leon Septamost, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 05:28 (eleven years ago) link
If jealousy and contempt are emotions, he's very emotional about Megan.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 05:29 (eleven years ago) link
i still want to know why she kept borrowing money from him for lunch
― sarahell, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
because she was hungry
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 13:19 (eleven years ago) link
Actually Don and Peggy in direct competition with one another would probably be a lot of fun as a plotline, especially if Peggy gets a couple of wins over him.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 13:44 (eleven years ago) link
otm!
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
would watch
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
my manager (lol) had a good point about peggy leaving: the network politics of this season were about cutting characters and reducing the size of the show (adios kinsey). are we really going to have a whole other office in the next season?
― goole, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:02 (eleven years ago) link
my manager (lol) had a good point about peggy leaving: the network politics of this season were about cutting characters and reducing the size of the show (adios kinsey). are we really going to have a whole other office in the next season? --goole
That was two seasons ago...
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
Given they've kept Betty going for two seasons after she stopped having any real plot function they can keep Peggy around in some way as well.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:10 (eleven years ago) link
jesus was it
― goole, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:17 (eleven years ago) link
does anyone remember if they messed with the chronology in any other episode besides this and the Howard Johnson's/LSD one?
― ryan, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:18 (eleven years ago) link
There was a third season episode involving Don getting drugged and mugged by some kids in a motel room that was told in a funny order.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
AMC made Weiner scale down the cast once (two seasons ago) and then wanted him to do it again before this season during all the contract talks. He said no, and won.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:27 (eleven years ago) link
well that doesn't really bode well for the idea of expanding the cast then does it
― goole, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:29 (eleven years ago) link
They don't have to expand the cast, they just have to show Peggy and the other guy up against Don every so often.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:39 (eleven years ago) link
I hope we get to see Mother Francis again this season, particularly with Sally.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
Don't think Peggy's going away from the show anytime soon - iirc both Jon Hamm and Matthew Weiner have said things recently along the lines of, that there's a reason that the show starts on her very first day of work.
I don't know if that's just misdirection, but in those instances they seem to acknowledge that Peggy is the closest to an audience proxy, so I just don't think they're going to let go of her that quickly.
― Roz, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
Also, while Don may treat Peggy like crap in the office, she's also his new Anna - she'll prob be the first person he turns to if things go seriously wrong with Megan.
― Roz, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
someone on twitter posted an interview with christina hendricks, and she said matt weiner had this joan plotline in mind since a season or two ago. maybe that's meant to be comforting, in a "he has a plan, don't worry, this is going somewhere" way, but i still find it difficult to accept that roger wouldn't talk to joan about it beforehand, and that joan would reject roger's money but go through with this.
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
I think the way Roger has treated Jane this season has made it clear that his money comes with a lot of strings attached. Joan is never going to have to deal with Jaguar guy again -- it makes sense to me.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
Also, while Don may treat Peggy like crap in the office, she's also his new Anna
^^^ This. I mean, Don was on top of his game before he went into that room with Peggy and he looked genuinely crushed at the end of it. Especially when he realised here she was going.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
Don was on top of his game before he went into that room with Peggy
haha waht he was totally pissed about the Joan/Jaguar thing and had ditched the party!
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
i am a bit surprised that post-acid, "life-altering experience" roger would so blithely let this pass. though blithe is admittedly what roger does best...
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
Remember, Pete phrased this all to them as if Joan had already agreed but that they couldn't afford her. Joan was trying to tell Pete she had no price (until Pete went back to HER as if they'd all voted that she had to do it - did not say 'you can say no' as Bert wanted clear.)
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
So from the perspective, Roger thought Joan was up for sleeping with this guy and then just said the "leave me out of it" or whatever.
still, if i were a friend of joan's, i'd want a word with here, regardless of how some weaselly little nerd described the situation to me. roger hardly seems to be pete's biggest fan, after all.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
here = her
one of the problems with standard soap opera plotting is that it so often requires that everyone unquestioningly accept things said by the least credible people. mad men is usually smarter about avoiding that device.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4pt4twLwy1qzyj1uo2_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4pt4twLwy1qzyj1uo3_250.gif
That scene was a really, really tough scene to film. They didn’t tell me they were going to do this but Phil told Jon to hold on to my hand and not let it go. And then he did and I really sort of lost it… and I will say that every single one of those tears was actually absolutely real.— Elisabeth Moss, Inside Episode 511
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
it does seem sort of weird that Roger would take Pete's word for it and not discuss it with Joan. otoh maybe he did and we just didn't see it.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
scientologists don't cry real tears fyi
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
xp and of course we've all read Mad Style by now & know that JOan wore the fur Roger gave her (when he met Don!) as a giant 'Fuck you!' to Roger -not- going to talk to her about the deal.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
we have another two whole episodes to see how bitter and miserable roger is
― goole, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
haha wow I missed that about the fur. of course
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
I had no idea. But of course she did, because Joan fucking RULES
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
i love vincent kartheiser saying "jag-wire" like a minnesotan
and jared harris' non-posh accent
― goole, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
“When I wear it, I’ll always remember the night I got it.”
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
Can we get a gif of Joan flatly snubbing Pete's handshake attempt to contrast with that Peggy/Don one?
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
would like to throw some love to Joan's mom this season, she is a laff riot. "we all wish he was dead" indeed
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
she is the perfect archetype of mom living in yr apartment
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
the whole thing about her and the repairman is lol
"we're just friends"
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
i still find it difficult to accept that roger wouldn't talk to joan about it beforehand...
We know that Lane and Roger already objectify Joan, as affectionate as they may be toward her. We can assume that Bert doesn't care enough about Joan to say no. The darkest part is, knowing Pete, that he'd in his own way enjoy prostituting the female staff, and especially a woman more respected than himself.
...and that joan would reject roger's money but go through with this
It's different. This situation has Pete manipulating Joan into thinking that 'whore' is in her job description, and that all the partners think so. (And they do, except Don.) Even though they say "she has a choice" and "she can still say no", the fact that any of the partners would even consider the idea, in the first place, it has effectively redefined her occupation.
The fact that Roger and Joan were in a relationship-- that is, boss with secretary-- only re-enforces the fact, despite his affection for her, he still thinks of her as an object.
― poxen, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
Why does Don hate Ginsburg so much? Any reasons besides professional jealousy?
― poxen, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 22:02 (eleven years ago) link
he has no manners
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 22:02 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.avclub.com/articles/jaguar-is-cool-with-looking-like-total-scumbags-on,75814/
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
during the close up of peggy where don was holding her hand, i remember wondering why it was going on for so long. like, "what is he doing down there...?"
this is obvious, but since i don't think anyone's mentioned it... i keep thinking back to the first episode of the season where joan was practically falling apart at the idea that she'd been replaced at scdp and could be so dispensable. and after all that, what finally institutionalizes her is her body and her looks.
― phantompenguin, Thursday, 31 May 2012 02:36 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like Rogers's whole internal reality throughout this episode remains unseen. Like, he was holding it all in, or we'll get more information later.
― Leon Septamost, Thursday, 31 May 2012 05:36 (eleven years ago) link
Roger doesn't really give a shit. Lane was appalled but using it to cover his own back. Bert at least said "tell her she can still say no". Pete obviously the worst of all of them. Don was the only one who actually emerged with any credit at all.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Thursday, 31 May 2012 11:53 (eleven years ago) link
I initially thought that Don just washed his hand and didn't do enough to stop it by just leaving the meeting, but I guess the point was made by Pete that he's not the end-all, be-all at the company and he sometimes doesn't grasp that he's not in control of everything that happens.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 31 May 2012 16:35 (eleven years ago) link
well there we go
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 4 June 2012 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
fucked up!
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 4 June 2012 03:14 (eleven years ago) link
lane's final note was exceedingly sloan wilson.
― s.clover, Monday, 4 June 2012 03:15 (eleven years ago) link
jaguar ignition gag was awesome.
last ep is called 'the phantom' fyi
― johnny crunch, Monday, 4 June 2012 03:20 (eleven years ago) link
Thought that too.
Also, Creepy Glen is the best.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 03:36 (eleven years ago) link
he wasn't terribly creepy tho just kinda meh imo!
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 4 June 2012 03:52 (eleven years ago) link
nice to see a nice moment btwn Betty and Sally there
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 4 June 2012 03:55 (eleven years ago) link
Creepy or not, I like him getting screentime.
Don's kind of in a pickle now. He's trying to do one of those "Don regroups and recharges the business and his own sense of purpose" things, but all this shit is getting his way. I wonder if he'll fail at it this time.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
Great episode from the Jaquemattons. They wrote the Lucky Strike letter episode last season, they have their own private part of the plot now.
Also the ironic failure of a suicide attempt was classic. Hanging in the office was well played. Just devastating and unvarnished for everyone.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 4 June 2012 04:52 (eleven years ago) link
the actual sight of the body hanging there was hands-over-my-eyes shocking to me. we've been talking all season about someone killing themselves and the whole episode was so clearly leading up to it, but even with all that to potentially soften the blow it was horrible.
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Monday, 4 June 2012 05:44 (eleven years ago) link
yeah ^^ that
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 4 June 2012 06:06 (eleven years ago) link
good insight from sepinwall:
(*) On the plus side for poor Rebecca Pryce and her son: didn't Pete learn that the company insurance policy indemnifies for suicide after three years? SCDP's been in existence for more than three years now, after all.
― modest mouskouri (get bent), Monday, 4 June 2012 06:15 (eleven years ago) link
would his resignation letter complicate that?
― Fellini.Kuti, Monday, 4 June 2012 06:20 (eleven years ago) link
he didn't turn it in. he died as a part of SCDP.
― modest mouskouri (get bent), Monday, 4 June 2012 06:23 (eleven years ago) link
but it was addressed "to the partners" and clearly drafted before his death. Was this a spiteful, I'd rather die than resign to you fucks kind of statement? I don't think so
― Fellini.Kuti, Monday, 4 June 2012 06:27 (eleven years ago) link
I'm really gutted because I love Jared Harris.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 4 June 2012 06:44 (eleven years ago) link
Even the way he totally fucked the dog with that last Joan interaction was just heartbreaking.
an undelivered resignation letter wouldn't mean much, legally speaking. if no concrete steps had been taken (paperwork filed, etc) to separate lane from the firm, then he died in their employ.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 4 June 2012 06:45 (eleven years ago) link
xp yeah
interesting timing: today (june 3) is the anniversary of valerie solanas's attempt on andy warhol's life. jared harris played andy in i shot andy warhol.
― modest mouskouri (get bent), Monday, 4 June 2012 07:01 (eleven years ago) link
that's what i'm thinking. finding a resignation letter is not the same as having received one.
― modest mouskouri (get bent), Monday, 4 June 2012 07:03 (eleven years ago) link
though if don comes clean about having fired him...
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 4 June 2012 07:20 (eleven years ago) link
He won't. I wonder if the insurance stuff was what Lane was going over when Rebecca was trying to get him to go out and drive?
BTW, what was the credits song? I thought it was "A Child's Claim To Fame" by Buffalo Springfield at first (similar guitar lines) but obviously it wasn't.
On a lighter note, Don wants to see A Fistful of Dollars!
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 4 June 2012 09:48 (eleven years ago) link
i'm really not a stickler for anachronisms, but megan's vocal fry really stands out. and she seems out-of-breath a lot for an actress -- someone who would be studying breath control.
― modest mouskouri (get bent), Monday, 4 June 2012 10:43 (eleven years ago) link
It was the Lovin' Spoonful.
― dan selzer, Monday, 4 June 2012 12:16 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think Glen is creepy anymore. Just awkward. I like him.
― dan selzer, Monday, 4 June 2012 12:17 (eleven years ago) link
Me too. I will miss him.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 4 June 2012 12:24 (eleven years ago) link
Between this and Fringe it's not been a good couple of months for the guy.
― pandemic, Monday, 4 June 2012 12:32 (eleven years ago) link
OH FUCK.
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 4 June 2012 13:13 (eleven years ago) link
bye Lane :(. (if he's been operating at a loss for three years, I wonder an insurance payout could be troubling for the company finances? Unlikely that they're connected, I guess.)
I didn't think Glen was creepy, he's just a normal boy of 14 or whatever. His interactions with Sally were nice in a slightly awkward adolescent way.
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 4 June 2012 13:17 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder an insurance payout could be troubling for the company finances?
Actually, not to get too morbid, Price's death may be better for the company's finances. In addition to any individual or group policies that would pay benefits to his spouse, SCDP likely would have had key man coverage on Price that would have paid the company in the event of his death.
― righteousmaelstrom, Monday, 4 June 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
can anyone tell me what Pete meant when he said the note was a "boilerplate"? (did i even hear that right?)
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
Roger said it, I think. And that means it was probably something like "Effective today, I resign my position at SCDP."
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
yeah just like 'standard form' or w/e
― johnny crunch, Monday, 4 June 2012 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
just a standard "I hereby resign my position at SCDP" letter, ie a boilerplate resignation letter not really a suicide note. xposts
― dmr, Monday, 4 June 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
speaking of creepy, way to include a shot of sally's underwear, mad men.
are you guys seriously discussing the finer points of Lane's insurance policy after this episode
― dmr, Monday, 4 June 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
yes. better that than Sally's underwear.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
^
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
Although, one of my friend's has decided to start a band named "Sally Draper's Period".
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
*friends
lol @ all this insurance talk. Lane's family will get nothing - THEY MOVED THE BODY
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
(my wife did employee practices insurance for 10+ years, suicide isn't covered if the body's been messed with)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
anyway great episode, love whenever Ray Wise is around, plus the whole jaguar gag (which, while heavily telegraphed, was quite still quite funny)
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
i assumed the car wouldn't start and then he'd have a change of heart.... :s
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
when Don forced him to resign I thought we were going to get the typical Mad Men quiet deflation of the storyline, Lane quietly disappearing back to Britain, never heard from again. Incorrect.
Amidst... everything I had forgotten about Kenny's admirable sass in his meeting with Roger. And his hatred of Pete. I think it had been implied before, but had he ever been explicit about it?
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 4 June 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
I think he's really pissed about the Joan thing tbh.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
More like "horrified beyond reckoning" I'd think
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 4 June 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
loved his jab about that.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
that was a great scene. whatever that line was, "I'd rather not be a partner, I know what that means now."
― dmr, Monday, 4 June 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
Exactly how common is it for people to just let loved ones' bodies hang there?
― Björk lied (Eric H.), Monday, 4 June 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
*digs out actuarial table*
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
― dmr, Monday, June 4, 2012 11:17 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
have you forgotten sally's explorations in earlier seasons?
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 4 June 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
Reeling from this ep TBH. What a season it's been.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 4 June 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
xp I had, so, uh, thanks for reminding me?
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
idk he made it sound like it was unprecedented
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 4 June 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
anyway how about cosgrove snapping it off
Pete's been especially evil this season, and one of the pettiest things he did was out Ken's fiction moonlighting to Roger.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 4 June 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
Still not convinced that it wasn't Peggy who did this, she looked guilty when Ken mentioned it.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 4 June 2012 17:20 (eleven years ago) link
? they showed Pete telling Roger.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think they did actually, but I still think Pete did it too.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
it was Pete and Don at dinner when Ken's wife let it slip about the writing, so...
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
And that happen right before the convo with Roger. Whereas I got the idea that Ken told Peggy about it earlier.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
I can't remember the scene showing Pete telling Roger(?) but I do remember the writing was discussed at dinner at Pete's house with Ken & Don present. The episode ends with Ken writing a story that sounds like a dismissive slam on Pete's life.
argh xpand of course most already knew about it from the first time he got published, but it'd been a few years since then.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
and Pete was a dick to him about the writing from the get-go.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:44 (eleven years ago) link
And that happen right before the convo with Roger.
hmm maybe this is what I was thinking of - Roger dressing down Ken the day after the dinner
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
I'm pretty sure we never got a scene of anyone telling Roger about the stories. I also thought it might be Peggy, based on her kinda weird/muted reaction to the news that he wrote stories, and also because maybe it would be TOO OBVIOUS to think it was Pete. otoh, as all the critics have pointed out, this is the season where everything you think is obvious is probably correct, so maybe not.
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
I don't get why Peggy would be the one to tell Roger - it's not like they were buddies, and Peggy had no real reason to make things hard for Ken
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:47 (eleven years ago) link
And surely Peggy knew back in season one when Ken's maple syrup story was published. The dinner party episode was the same one where Pete was jealous of the high school driving class hunk - he was jealously lashing out wherever he could.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
(Pete was jealous then too, but took the 'I am going to get published too' approach by using one of Trudy's exes)
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 4 June 2012 18:53 (eleven years ago) link
Pete just seemed too obvious, and Peggy does seem to have resentments towards people who have outside work/interests. It may very well have been Pete, but it seemed a bit cartoon villain.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 4 June 2012 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
...just you wait til next week when he kidnaps Rory and ties her to the tracks of the commuter train!
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 4 June 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
Funnily enough, earlier when we were discussing this episode and the 'Next Time' section, I put Peggy forward totally as the sort of person that the next episode could be about (if it's like how it's being teased) while Frances disagreed.
― Desire is withered away from the sons of men! (aldo), Monday, 4 June 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
was idly thinking it would be funny if this show ended with Peggy with her own company and Don begging for a job
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
Why would Don ever need a job?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 4 June 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
(not granting another of shakey's dumb conjectural premises here) but the show has flirted with the idea that industry is beginning to view him as an egoist and a snake instead of some kind of magic genius ("after you bit the hand?")
― goole, Monday, 4 June 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
hey I was right about Lane at least
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
not that it wasn't really obvious or anything
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
i... i don't think it was?
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:02 (eleven years ago) link
I honestly thought that Lane was going to give up after the Jaguar ignition failed to work.
I wonder where Don's going to go from here. He's been a fairly amoral scumbag for most of the previous seasons but with the possible exception of leaving Megan in the car park he's not acted with anything less than integrity for most of this season and it's not actually got him anywhere other than with one other body on his conscience and a heavy load of disillusionment.
That said disillusionment is when Don Draper is at his creative peak - I thought the scene where he was pitching for what is essentially the fucking NAPALM account was amazing. "Happiness is just the period until you need more happiness" was *almost* the whole Mad Men brief laid a little too bare but it worked because he was just so rabid in it. But I suppose it's pretty obvious by now that the shittier Don's life is the better he is at his job.
― Matt DC, Monday, 4 June 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
btw did everyone notice Sally wearing the forbidden go-go boots on her "date"
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
Happiness is just the period until you need more happiness
Don talking about himself again, of course
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
I read the significance of the resignation letter as being that he had had a change of heart after the first attempt, and intended to go into the office solely to type the letter. But then the act of writing it forced him into another cycle of abject despair and he impulsively thought 'fuck it, I'm going'.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
^^ concur w/ this assessment
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
yup. except to me, suicide felt weirdly selfish for his character... still has a wife and kid(s?) to take care of.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
he wants to spare himself the pain of admitting failure to them, so he pretends he's sparing them the consequences of his failures
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think Lane's suicide was really out of character - he's been frustrated, humiliated, and defeated at every turn. his one big grab for the brass ring - the partnership - was not the life-altering solution he'd been hoping for.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
co-sign. contender for best-season-ever if they don't fluff the finale, I'd say.
― that mustardless plate (Bill A), Monday, 4 June 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
this build-up to the finale is interesting, I can't really imagine what'll happen. Now that Lane's story is over most things appear to be more or less in equilibrium.
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
Pete's situation seems a bit unresolved
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
also judging from the clips it looks like Megan lands a role
big twist could be word gets out about how Joan became a partner. drama would be huge.
― s.clover, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
curious whether Peggy will be in the finale at all or whether they'll leave us hanging until next season
― dmr, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
I was onboard w/ best-season-ever talk 'till last week's ep. Now I'm not so sure.
― Simon H., Monday, 4 June 2012 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
I'd not be surprised by having no sign of Peggy in the finale.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 4 June 2012 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
yeah me neither
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 4 June 2012 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
I was onboard w/ best-season-ever talk 'till last week's ep.
It was last week's episode that clinched it as best ever for me, tbh.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
That episode not only created a turning point in the universe of the series itself, but in the outside world too.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
What do you mean? I agree, tho, it was my favourite of the season
― poxen, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:44 (eleven years ago) link
Well, it definitely pitted Don against everyone else in the company (and, oddly, gave him some moral highground). But it also seemed to split the fanbase into "she would've"/"she would've never" camps and, according to some recaps, ruined the show's credibility for many people.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
I guess everyone was on board when she married her rapist.
― polyphonic, Monday, 4 June 2012 22:50 (eleven years ago) link
haha, was going to say.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Monday, 4 June 2012 22:54 (eleven years ago) link
To me, it wasn't about "she would / wouldn't have." It was more about how they handled it, or more accurately didn't handle it, w/r/t/ Roger. Plus btwn that and Lane's suicide it's definitely starting to feel like bleakness overkill for me.
― Simon H., Monday, 4 June 2012 22:54 (eleven years ago) link
This has been a pretty down season (especially after the relatively wacky S4), but I would also say the funniest.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 4 June 2012 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
but I would also say the funniest.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2yko4ZoyL1qhzhglo1_400.gif
also, BUMMED that i read a spoiler about lane a few hours before seeing this episode
― Sisig Steve (stevie), Monday, 4 June 2012 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
Hmm. That's interesting.
I felt the show took a major turning point when they introduced Megan. I mean she's the only character who seems as if she could exist in the present-day
― poxen, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
"I don't like what we're doing." "So you're drinking with a purpose."
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 05:00 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't think they could shock me as much as the lawnmower incident, (which cause a violent reaction in me, because well, I lost my big toe to a lawnmower) but this season hasn't only shocked me but has endeared me to characters I never thought I cared much for. I think it's the best season so far, and I'm thinking the finale will showcase Don as a newly born cut throat shrewd business man. Don has always had a soft heart and sort of a martyr-like complex towards his co-workers, but l think all of Bert Cooper's short criticism, especially the last one about the check, will finally show a change in Don. Maybe that wouldn't be a big reveal for the finale but it seems like it's leading to some kind of change in Don and the office?
― JacobSanders, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 05:12 (eleven years ago) link
I'm wondering if--what with Don's Napalm pitch to Dow and the possibility (floated way upthread) of Henry working for the Nixon campaign--the final two seasons will go full-bore into exploring the mechanics of "The Silent Majority"?
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 05:30 (eleven years ago) link
i doubt they'll actually get the dow job.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 05:45 (eleven years ago) link
do you think layne's suicide will put a kind of hex on the firm in terms of clients?
So what happened to Dawn? They just had that one episode with her and I don't think I have spotted her at her desk since?
― *tera, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 05:50 (eleven years ago) link
ppl talked to her several times in this ep while she was off screen
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 05:53 (eleven years ago) link
I was wondering about the Lane thing. Surely they would just say he had a heart attack or died suddenly, right? Until Harry says something stupid.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
She was in the party in the conference room after the Jaguar announcement last week.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 06:23 (eleven years ago) link
They'll Weekend At Bernie's-him, because in the Mad Men universe Harry writes the movie based on this experience.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 06:30 (eleven years ago) link
“But that moment where they break into the room, they deliberately did it so that they didn’t see me until they had that moment…they didn’t see me in makeup beforehand. And the hardest part about that was resisting the urge to fuck that moment up by breaking into a Monty Python skit and start dancing while hanging there.”— Jared Harris (“Lane Pryce”), on his scene in the Mad Men episode “Commissions and Fees.”
— Jared Harris (“Lane Pryce”), on his scene in the Mad Men episode “Commissions and Fees.”
I bet he did get to have a little fun while in makeup, though. lol
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
They have totally shown Don interacting with Dawn onscreen - they haven't given her much to do though.
I wonder if they'll get new offices. nobody likes to work where people have died.
also, while I don't think anyone here has voiced this particular criticism, I am perplexed by other comments floating about ye internet that this season has been "too predictable". What with the acid, the suicide, the whoring, Ginsburg, Peggy leaving - this seems like it's been one of the more unpredictable seasons imo.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
Ida Blankenship has already died in the office. Two deaths in three years is just careless though.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
d'oh yr right how could I forget
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
this was pretty good
― goole, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
oh man, the scenes between Sally and Betty ;_; *picks up the phone, calls Mum*
I was surprised by Lane, but at the same time not really. The moment when Don says to Lane 'after this it gets easier' and Lane just looks at him with this 'orly fuck you' look on his face, I had a feeling it would go badly. Not THAT badly, but it becomes yet another one of those instances for Draper where he's being let down by the people around him. Or where his own view of himself and right vs wrong is just completely removed from the realities of other people's lives, or something.
And I really liked that last moment between Don & Glenn, letting him drive.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
feel like Don's genuinely done the right things re: Joan and Lane and yet both times it turned to crap - as Glenn would say
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
;_; at shots of Joan crying
― poxen, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
yeah maybe that's it. his efforts to help people are thwarted by the people themselves not...well, not being him.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
shakey otm
― Sisig Steve (stevie), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
last shot/scene was truly great. one of my fav endings so far.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
fascinating
What did other cast members say to you once they found out about Lane? Do they try to console you? Keep things humorous?It comes out slowly. Jon Hamm knew about it from the very beginning. Before each season, apparently, Matt and Jon go out for a dinner and he discusses his ideas for the season with Jon and it was one of the stories that he wanted to build up to. But everyone else, no one knew.
http://www.vulture.com/2012/06/mad-mens-jared-harris-interview.html
― mizzell, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
so much redemption for Glen with
"What do you want to do?""Are you kidding? The museum's right across the park!"
― I DIED, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
great interview w Harris - thx
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
The kid who plays Glen is a bit rubbish really, worst character in the series.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:17 (eleven years ago) link
What did he say?"I wanna talk to you in my office." And then he offered me some extremely expensive brandy, and that’s how you know you’re fucked. Yep. But there was talk around base camp from the pre-shoots that something was gonna happen to somebody. We kind of felt it in the air.
oh my god, Matthew Weiner telling Jared Harris his character was gone was just like Don firing Lane.
― I DIED, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
nah I think Glen is great. he nails the awkward stiffness of that age, particularly when it comes to relating to the opposite sex
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
Agreed. I don't get people saying Glen is creepy, a bad character or a bad actor. He perfectly portrays a kid of his age. I don't think I'd hang a whole series around him but he's a good character and has had alot of good moments for a minor player.
― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
shakey and sparkle otm re: glenn
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
Was it just me or was the whole Glen subplot in this one a kind of ham-handed (but great) Holden Caulfield hommage? Boarding school, train stations, calling up girls he knew years ago out of the blue... "Everything you think's gonna make you happy just turns to crap..."
― brio, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
haha wow that didn't occur to me but makes total sense
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
did he call anybody a phony
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
no but sally did!
― goole, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
but yes brio otm. down to the prep school getup.
Isn't there a Natural History Museum thing in Catcher in The Rye too, or am I imagining that? Been awhile.
― brio, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
the actor is Weiner's son, and his middle name is Holden. Someone on Reddit pointed out that one of the very first times we met the little guy he was wearing a red hunting cap:
http://tvrecappersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/creepy-glen.png
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
also from Reddit: Holden wants to see Phoebe, and he goes to look for her in the park because he remembers that she often roller-skates there on Sundays. He meets a girl who knows Phoebe. At first, she tells him that his sister is on a school trip to the Museum of Natural History, but then she remembers that the trip was the previous day. Nevertheless, Holden walks to the museum, remembering his own class trips. He focuses on the way life is frozen in the museum’s exhibits: models of Eskimos and Indians stand as though petrified and birds hang from the ceiling, seemingly in mid-flight. He remarks that every time he went to the museum, he felt that he had changed, while the museum had stayed exactly the same.
I did notice the CITR themes on my own since that's one of my favourite books, but I am lazy about researching :)
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
Excellent call on Catcher.
― s.clover, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
omg I didn't catch that at all
now I want to go read the book again again again
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
when I went to NYC with ENBB I took a picture of the pond & the ducks :) It made me so happy. Ditto with the skating rink. One day I'd like to try and do the whole trip he takes - haven't read the book for a while so not sure how many locations are namechecked, but I want to go!
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't read it for a while either but I remember loving the awkwardness of him hanging out with the 3 girls at the Edmont, when they go dancing (?)
also everything between him and Stradlater
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
the whole book just makes me want to quote and reminisce and draw hearts <3 <3 and of course erase the word Fuck from anyplace I might find it
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
pun intended?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
hahah if I say yes I will be crediting myself with far more cleverness than I have, lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
Lane's greatest moment, RIP:
http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PETE-CAMPBELL-KTFO.gif
― Roz, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
I could watch that all day.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
pete punch v. crotch steak
― yorba linda carlisle (donna rouge), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
ppl like characters on this show? TV is weird.
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01hfwQL1QUg
"It shall be too late to run!"
― Stravinsky joins the Zulu nation (zero of the signified), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
and the way he puts up his fists, Marquis of Queensberry style is AWESOME
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
More Lane awesomeness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31cCUWDyyrQ
― Stravinsky joins the Zulu nation (zero of the signified), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
I just remembered that Don's brother also hanged himself after Don tried to wash his hands of him. Has he killed anyone else?
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
good christ, i'd completely forgotten about that
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
a friend of mine speculates that the series is driven by an Ayn Randian ethos, and Don is a Randian hero.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
Burt Cooper is a Randian hero
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
in his mind
iirc
interesting speculation. "i owe you nothing because i can take care of myself" seems to be a big part of don's operating philosophy.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:06 (eleven years ago) link
Dick Whitman (and N.Korea) are responsible for the death of the real Don Draper.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
Don would have to not be miserable all the time to be a Randian hero. You're supposed to ENJOY the fruits of your principled capitalist labor.
― I DIED, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
randian thing doesn't really scan to me.
randianism has appear specifically as a fascination of cooper's and he's a bit buffoonish.
― goole, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
I miss Bert Cooper's OG office where you had to take your shoes off and it was like visiting Japan to have a meeting with him
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
"Dick Whitman (and N.Korea) are responsible for the death of the real Don Draper."
How was Dick Whitman responsible for the real Don Draper's death? He didn't drop a bomb on the guy.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
why Dick Whitman is responsible for Don Draper's LIFE! (And Dick Whitman's death.)
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
randians aren't quiet about their bullshit generally and weiner himself is mum on this subject.
what about don is specifically randian as opposed to being.. rich?
― goole, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
oh no, i don't suppose that either don or mad men is explicitly/intentionally randian. it's still an interesting parallel to consider: a protagonist whose strength and superiority are inseparable from his heroism brought low by the craven, grasping weakness of those around him
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
his dismissal of lane was about as compassionate as he could reasonably be, really.
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, June 5, 2012 3:25 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4tgjzQ7q71r8j1jb.gif
― goole, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
that one's getting a lot of work today.
anyway, i do like the idea of don as rand-esqe (let's say) hero. strong, visionary, unbound by the petty rules that govern the behavior of lesser men...
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
Don's brought himself low plenty of times. And has also shown himself to be generous, even charitable, on multiple occasions.
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
also, to some extent sympathy for the poor and whores and the rejected and the outcast kind of comes very naturally to him - he sees himself in them - and that is explicitly NON-Randian
your summary of what about don is randian has never happened on the show
― goole, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
no, i'm speculating idly about the eventual course of things. either he'll triumph over the lesser men around him, or else he'll stumble. at this point, it's all speculative. i agree, fwiw, that he's far from the perfect randian hero.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
and sure, if you strip off enough of the specifics that make a "randian hero" specifically randian, then he just becomes a plain old ordinary hero - which is certainly the more sensible description of don at this point
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
"Dick Whitman (and N.Korea) are responsible for the death of the real Don Draper."How was Dick Whitman responsible for the real Don Draper's death? He didn't drop a bomb on the guy.
Splitting hairs here (this was all Weiner's fault anyway), but iirc, Dick was being reprimanded by the real Don when they were attacked. Prior to that, the real Don had been working on something else at a (as it happened) safer place in camp. He was only in fatal danger because he was having to deal w/Dick.
By that same token though, you could argue that if the real Don wasn't with Dick, and only Dick had been killed, the real Don would have been seriously damaged in an albeit different way.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
he's barely a hero. this has been maybe his most "heroic" season in the sense that he hasn't been a complete shitbag and has tried to be nice/helpful to some people.
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
Don doesn't do everything on his own here either tho... not sure where the last few campaigns would be without Ginsberg/Peggy/Pete.
wow xposts
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
xp - yeah, definitely. i'd thought of don as the show's villain prior to this season.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
Anti-hero rather than villain really. If the show's had a more-or-less consistent villain, and I'm not sure it does, then it's Pete, but even Pete's character cuts against that on occasion. Admittedly not very much this year.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
Actually reading summaries you appear to be right. No recollection of him blowing the real Don up, but it's been a while...
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
not sure where the last few campaigns would be without Ginsberg/Peggy/Pete.
As someone pointed out way upthread, it's been a long time since Don had a real idea. His worth to SCDP now is his ability to sell the ideas created by Ginsberg and Peggy.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
basically having to rely on a team in such a way is pretty anti-randian, no?
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
life is anti-randian
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't they both survive the bombardment, and then Dick lit a cigarette that caused an explosion that killed the Real Don Draper? Or did I just imagine that?
― Dan I., Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
you imagined that
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
i think you're thinking of a cartoon.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
haha okay I'm being a literalist.
― Dan I., Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
don came up with the devil concept that he sold to treat manufacturer instead of ginsberg's (clearly hawaiian punch-inspired) snowball in the face pitch.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
and that throat-ripping general purpose pitch to dow was all don (for better or worse)
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
the Dow thing wasn't really an idea...
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
i think it was. he pitched a concept: you're not happy. you can't be happy with less than everything. we're hungry enough to know that and to fight for it on your behalf.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
what kind of tagline is that
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
"You're Not Happy"
Dow Chemical
I just remembered that Don's brother also hanged himself after Don tried to wash his hands of him.
there were a lot of careful resonances w/ this built into the episode. no doubt layne's suicide recalled his young brother's suicide to don, which makes some beautiful sense of the final scene where he lets glenn (a temporary little-brother figure) drive his car.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
Dow Chemical: Give Americans ALL the Napalm
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
that's the kind of shit that not many TV shows would think to pull off BTW. i think most shows would go for a slow-mo flashback. more sophisticated shows might have a brief flash frame or something.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
don wasn't pitching dow a proposed campaign. he was pitching SCDP in opposition to the presumed taken-for-granted indifference of dow's current ad agency. if it works in the show's fictional universe, then it was a good line. if not, then not.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
another note: this show has been absolutely merciless to Jaguar. I'm sure they feel "no such thing as bad press" about the exposure but lol the starter/suicide gag was just brutal... not only was the car used as a symbol of his oppressive frustration, but it couldn't even deliver the promise of death's release due to its built-in inadequacy
I understand what Don was doing, it was not an ad campaign for Dow. It was nominally an ad for SCDP, I suppose.
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
kind of wish glenn had shut up in the elevator though, that was a bit, how do you say?... on the nose.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
All the on the noseness this season coming from teenagers saying sage things to grown men for no apparent reason
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
Glen is 14. Subtlety is not his strength yet.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
magic pixie dream glen
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
um manic
Sepinwall pointed out the similarities of Don's physical reaction:http://s3.amazonaws.com/images.hitfix.com/assets/1400/mad-men-don-hanging.jpg
― Never translate Dutch (jaymc), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
pretty weird that on sky in the uk they had a jaguar ad on the first break.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
ha, glen comes across to me as just a normal maybe slightly dumb socially awkward outcast teenager, any sagacity in anything he said would be purely incidental.
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
Glen seems normal now. The "creepy" tag is just a holdover from when he was charming Betty back in Ossining.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
Give it a week, let's see if he's creepin on Megan..
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 21:59 (eleven years ago) link
Does anyone really think the selling point of Don Draper was ever "he has the best ideas"?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
he's randy-an
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
well he was, dunno if he really is now
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
he still bones on the reg, just with one person in a fit of rage
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 22:44 (eleven years ago) link
Wouldn't the Randian thing be, Don's the job creator, Peggy, et al, are just feeding off the juices of his awesome job creation opportunities (ie. Dow).
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 5 June 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't they both survive the bombardment, and then Dick lit a cigarette that caused an explosion that killed the Real Don Draper? Or did I just imagine that?(...)i think you're thinking of a cartoon.
(...)
Hah, I've never made the connection before but the whole storyline kind of owes a debt to
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6GTp0GT5w6gBJS-aN5eQieXeD95ZpaR89qTKiMAhckNBaBfWJ
― sktsh, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
o ya. series finale starring dick whitman AS armin tamzarian.
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
this randian discussion is really a red herring.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
RED
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
shit, blew my cover.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 03:00 (eleven years ago) link
glen is weiner's son, right? he is good and effective in the part but I can't tell if his stilted line reading is meant to be part of the character or just, you know, really bad acting.
― akm, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 04:13 (eleven years ago) link
also lol moustache
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 04:18 (eleven years ago) link
wonder if that's makeup or if MW told his child he had to cultivate a puberty 'stache for a month
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 04:19 (eleven years ago) link
haa oh god
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/don-draper-libertarianisms-favorite-ad-man/2012/06/06/gJQAplXoIV_blog.html
right wing think tankers play dress up
― goole, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:05 (eleven years ago) link
The free-marketeers at the dinner saw themselves as the natural compatriots of Don Draper—the “debonair, hard-driving, sometimes ruthless” ad man, in the words of Loren Smith, the federal judge who MC-ed the program in a “Guys and Dolls”-style fedora and gray pinstriped suit. But it’s not clear whether Draper himself would have agreed.
― goole, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
they've kind of missed the point i think
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
The advertisements of Draper’s 1960s “were offering the good life, products that allowed us to be healthier, wealthier,”
you know, like Lucky Strike cigarettes and napalm
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
tbf the shittiness of the jaguar did prolong lane's life for a short period.
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
(i re-watched this episode, the first time around i was feeling a vague nausea throughout cuz i thought lane was for it, this time it was even worse cuz i KNEW he was. also jared harris was brilliant.)
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
Harris needs an Emmy for this one, or Signal 30:
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
No way, that Emmy is Giancarlo Esposito's.
― Björk lied (Eric H.), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
oscillating between twenty different emotions trying to find the one that will WORK in the firing scene was amazing.
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
that piece goole posted to is off the charts O_o
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
kind of on a reagan-likes-springsteen wavelength isn't it
― goole, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
it just reeks of entitlement... like people are beholden to buying products NO MATTER WHAT.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
A college professor of mine had a 1968 XKE, and told me about how he once defiantly stormed out of a faculty meeting only for his Jag to hilariously not start. As soon as Lane connected the hose I thought, yep, not gonna start.
Plus, didn't Roger have some line about how they never start in the previous episode?
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
that's been the whole pitch! like a beautiful woman (and just as unreliable).
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
haha, yeah. "It comes with a toolkit the size of a typewriter!"
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
don teaching glen to drive - in addition to being adorable, obv - reminded me of when we first met glen, at sally's bday party. he showed up with a newly widowed helen bishop, who then got hit on by some neighborhood guy creepily offering his services as an occasional faux-father figure for glen.
sally's woman troubles -> her needing a mother figure, ie betty, sort of parallels glen getting picked on in boarding school and feeling existential anguish -> but it's all okay when don teaches him to drive and has some good father-son time.
― phantompenguin, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
that was Cooper. "They're lemons! They never start."
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
I never knew about old Jaguars and the reputation for not starting until I watched an episode of Top Gear a few months ago where they paid tribute to the original XKE.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
didn't someone straight-up call it a "shitty car" in this last episode?
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
High-Five to Amy Sherman-Palladino
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
Considering race in the show ("'Roots' for White People"):
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2012/06/6007279/very-white-poetry-mad-men
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 June 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
meh
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Friday, 8 June 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
my biggest take-away from that article is that every NY film blogger hangs out together.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Friday, 8 June 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
go 'round to Uhlich's for Mad Men, then hit up the Grassroots Tavern afterwards
doesn't work geographically
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 June 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
“I'd say that there are things about the '60s [“Mad Men” creator] Matthew Weiner's interested in, and that none of them involve race; he's much smarter and more attuned to gender dynamics,” he wrote in an email. “But then he's like OH SHIT WHAT ABOUT RACE RELATIONS. Results: a token secretary character, as Kevin mentioned, There's a scene where she spends the night at Peggy's apartment and Peggy looks down and her purse is on the coffee table and she's obviously thinking, ‘Should I snatch this and take it to my bedroom or can I trust her and leave it here?’ She does the latter, so good for Peggy, but this is a moment demonstrating, once again, that she's one of the show's most forward-thinking characters.this completely misunderstands the situation. its the fact that she hesitated at all that makes her 'backwards', not the fact that she doesn't take the most-offensive possible action that makes her 'forward-thinking'
i guess its up for debate how much hes effective in doing this, but race is supposed to be something that is never thought about by its main characters, that its supposed to be treating them as 'white' in their very disregard/disinterest in the problems of people of color
Still, if this is the best the show can do, it'd be better just to admit they don't care.
i guess we can argue abt whether or not its doing this effectively, but i read its intentions to be much more along the lines of a whit stillman movies where it's observing privileged whiteness AS privileged whiteness, which would mean rendering people of color invisible (of course peggy never befriends dawn beyond one rather awkward attempt) because thats exactly what its cast WOULD do
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Friday, 8 June 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
so, i guess i kind of wish if he was to critique it he'd acknowledge that this was at some level a part of its goal & explain why he thinks it doesn't live up to that, but maybe he doesn't think thats its goal? idk
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Friday, 8 June 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
i had similar critiques early on w/r/t what they say about sal, where there was a contemporary condescension as if we're past this now, but i think the show rapidly transformed out of that once surreal stuff started happening, but maybe i just got caught up in the drama of it
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Friday, 8 June 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
“That's my biggest complaint about ‘Mad Men,’ that at worst it seems to be looking back from an enlightened time rather than yet another messy, unclassifiable moment in human history.”
i think this is true, and continues to be true
― sarahell, Sunday, 10 June 2012 09:29 (eleven years ago) link
article doesn't mention Carla at all lol
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 10 June 2012 13:40 (eleven years ago) link
or Kinsey's g/f
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 10 June 2012 13:44 (eleven years ago) link
“Mad Men,” which so far has given a few lines to a black maid, a black girlfriend and, in the latest season, a black secretary,
It does, but I think it undervalues the role of Carla.
― dan selzer, Sunday, 10 June 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
― sarahell, Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:29 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i felt this way at first like i said but i think its more a 'different time' than nec. a better one ... the effect for me (and maybe this is unfair b/c thats what im bringing to it, but) is more to start taking a look at how things actually operated or evolved, to locate a kind of realer understanding of the dynamics of 60s relationships than we've ever been presented which could as easily make us take a step back in our own time -- i mean i think it certainly forces ppl to think a bit about what similar assumptions are going on now
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Sunday, 10 June 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
make us take a step back in our own time -- i mean i think it certainly forces ppl to think a bit about what similar assumptions are going on now
that's a good, positive way of looking at it, and i just wonder if that's true for most viewers.
― sarahell, Sunday, 10 June 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
i wonder about that sort of thing a lot (esp w/ writing about rap) b/c people will bring different things to it. i guess this is like a distrust of the idea that there's some kind of inherently 'good' show where an obvious social good is being applied ... how many ppl who watch the wire got the idea that its about the drug war being evil (and that's a more strident program, quite obviously)
i do think there's something in the creation of this show that MAKES me think about power dynamics but i mean, 'what do the masses think' at some level feels a bit condescending. who really is watching this show at teh end of the day. arent they in it more for the costumes any way. i mean i think its obvious a huge % of people don't even really get it cf that libertarian mad men party
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Sunday, 10 June 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
there's some kind of inherently 'good' show where an obvious social good is being applied
the only thing i can think of in that regard is Dr. Who, but that's a very different show.
but i mean, 'what do the masses think' at some level feels a bit condescending
sure, i mean, i won't front, partly why i watch it is because the women wear some awesome dresses and Jon Hamm is v easy on the eyes.
― sarahell, Sunday, 10 June 2012 22:21 (eleven years ago) link
not sure if i'm altogether satisfied with this as a finale
― s.clover, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
oh my god that shot of Don walking off the set holy shit holy shit holy shit
― Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 11 June 2012 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
that one shot is so so so so good
Yeah, that shot was great. The rest? I think it was the only truly dud episode of the season.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:09 (eleven years ago) link
I also really liked the shots of the partners in the new office space, walking in at the start of the scene and then staring out at the window at the end.
Pete Campbell is basically the worst.
― Dr. (C-L), Monday, 11 June 2012 03:10 (eleven years ago) link
it wasnt a dud but it was mad men at its bleakest/most miserable
― call all destroyer, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
a well-deserved stomach punch after the s4 finale
didn't feel bleak or miserable so much as just sort of at sea.
― s.clover, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:14 (eleven years ago) link
but yeah -- it was a great shot. marred, i think, by then cutting to don walking directly into a bar and flirting. there's this nice, striking, easy to read image, and then everything just sort of dissolves again, on a symbolic level.
― s.clover, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:15 (eleven years ago) link
That was my takeaway as well. Nothing pivotal at all about any of it. Even the closing scene. Everyone who watches the show knows Don was eventually going to find himself in such a situation again. Just that no one knew when.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
that was grim. were they trying to give the impression that megan was going to take a whole bottle of pills?
and a lovely shot at the end but i suppose they had to show us where he went next - it felt a little too cinematic otherwise
― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, 11 June 2012 03:20 (eleven years ago) link
I did like that one line Lane's wife had, though...something about how they should've known better than to fill that man with ambition.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:20 (eleven years ago) link
yah it was too cinematic
― call all destroyer, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
that shot of peggy seeing two dogs fucking haha whaaaaaat
and Roger naked at the window trip pin
the closing montage was a bit much
― dmr, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:55 (eleven years ago) link
the shot of Don walking off the set was great
I do love it that we had a nudity warning at the beginning and with all the affairs and goings on what we get is roger's ass.
― s.clover, Monday, 11 June 2012 04:04 (eleven years ago) link
we had a hint of alexis bledel sideboob, to be fair.
initial flood of responses elsewhere seem to be "how boring, what a letdown" etc, but idk, after last week's hugeness i was expecting a more normal-seeming episode. so stoked we got to see peggy again, and that she was included in the ending montage like the other leads.
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Monday, 11 June 2012 04:24 (eleven years ago) link
Boring is what this show does best after all!
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 04:27 (eleven years ago) link
ECT is still in use today for really stubborn cases of depression, by the way.
Nobody really knows why it works.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 04:29 (eleven years ago) link
walking off set show was too sirk for meas was most of this that didn't set well
― “Argh!” I cry. But I really don’t care. (forksclovetofu), Monday, 11 June 2012 04:32 (eleven years ago) link
loved the fight between megan and her mother tho. that line about artistic temperament but not the talent was excellent.
― s.clover, Monday, 11 June 2012 05:23 (eleven years ago) link
I liked the cinematic walk-off the set. It signalled differentiation.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 11 June 2012 05:30 (eleven years ago) link
Realized that Megan didn't break Don's heart when she left advertising, she did it when she used him to get the commercial.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 05:53 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, that just occurred to me as well.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 05:56 (eleven years ago) link
I'd have been much happier with Don walking off the set being the closing shot.
― Simon H., Monday, 11 June 2012 06:05 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, and him watching Megan's screentest w/ forbidden smoke in the projector light was just as gorgeous.
― Simon H., Monday, 11 June 2012 06:06 (eleven years ago) link
best season
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:10 (eleven years ago) link
I think that title still goes to 3, but this might be second-best.
― Simon H., Monday, 11 June 2012 06:15 (eleven years ago) link
Though I do think the first 10 eps felt much more solid to me than the last few.
Pete took a lot of punches this season
many lolz this episode - Pete fight, Peggy + dog-fucking, Roger the acid-head
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:17 (eleven years ago) link
"Pete took a lot of punches this season"
Both literal and metaphorical. My favorite is still when he ran off to get his tools while Don just stripped down to his t-shirt and fixed the sink like it was no big deal.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 06:21 (eleven years ago) link
Weird motif about sunlight in this ep.
On second viewing lots of funny lines, esp Don's "we can do that?"
― ryan, Monday, 11 June 2012 06:45 (eleven years ago) link
…and Don never came to a meeting again
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:48 (eleven years ago) link
I just hope there's no Inception/Sopranos-like agonizing about what happens after the end of the finale of this episode.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:50 (eleven years ago) link
welp there goes my 'this is still don's gas dream' suggestion.
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 11 June 2012 06:52 (eleven years ago) link
Don never left California in season 2, everything since then has just been a coke-fueled reverie
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:53 (eleven years ago) link
by the way I've never rewatched that, was the person who was hanging out with the woman he was sleeping with her dad or what?
heh someone on tumblr pointed out that pete's sister-in-law (presumably trudy's sister) is named judy.
when i was defending the episode earlier i had kinda forgotten about pete's "here's my entire season's character arc in monologue form", that plus dead adam making "hang" puns was nagl, writing-wise.
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Monday, 11 June 2012 07:33 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like the pete plotline could've been saved if beth had been played by a different actress who could better convey the intensity of manic-depression.
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Monday, 11 June 2012 07:36 (eleven years ago) link
Really liked the way they came back to the photo in Lane's wallet from the premiere. Something basically innocent that became damning outside of context.
Nancy Sinatra's Bond theme: A+
It seemed like they were over-stuffed w/classic closing shots (Don leaving the set, the partners in the new office, Roger's ass) before landing on one that was less-so, but both more in character and boring.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 11 June 2012 10:07 (eleven years ago) link
plus dead adam making "hang" puns was nagl, writing-wise.
could have tqken this if he'd just raised his eyebrows, not gone "geeeet it?!?!?!"
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Monday, 11 June 2012 12:27 (eleven years ago) link
I feel like Weiner should have stuck to Don thinking he saw Adam in that office, the dentist scene was overkill.
― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Monday, 11 June 2012 13:00 (eleven years ago) link
Glen Bishop is basically Bobby Hill after puberty
― la musica de harry frogbs (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 11 June 2012 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
sadly i think this is pete's brother's wife who appeared once ages ago. could still make for some good dinner table farce next season, though.
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 11 June 2012 13:42 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I think Trudy is an only child (feels like she should be one anyway.)
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 June 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
"I'm the president of the Howdy Doody Circus Army!"
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
don't get why people are hating on the last shot - serial philanderer Don has been on his best behavior all season, the shot + the Bond theme were great "that chapter is OVER" signposts
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 15:19 (eleven years ago) link
mad men season 6: return to whore island
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Monday, 11 June 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
Next season Don Draper will be played by George Lazenby.
― dan selzer, Monday, 11 June 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
wanted to second this, brought the whole bit from the first episode into sharp relief.
also lol'd at Trudy's "not ANOTHER car accident"
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 18:56 (eleven years ago) link
so many great lines.
"This is what happens when you have an artistic temperament but you are not an artist." Megan's mother is so cold and awesome.
and lol at how Weiner feels the need to flag Pete's Democrat credentials ever so often: "You just hate him because he voted for Goldwater." Has any other character been identified by their politics on the show as much as Pete?
― Roz, Monday, 11 June 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
ugh yeah Megan's mom is assuming monstrous proportions
Cooper's politics have been referenced a number of times - re: civil rights, Nixon etc.
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
it is sort of weird that Pete is a Democrat, seems more likely that a scion of blue-blooded east coast waspishness would be a Rockefeller Republican...
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
kinda disappointed that we didn't see Abe after the episode where he and Peggy had their shacking-up party; he's p. dreamy in a yiddy kind of way
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
pete's fam is broke and he hated them all anyway
― goole, Monday, 11 June 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
having him be a bleeding heart is just a fun thing to put next to him being a psycho
― goole, Monday, 11 June 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
one thing that seemed a bit off to me in this episode was Ginsburg - he was really foaming at the mouth in that Topaz scene, struck me as a bit over the top.
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
xposts right Cooper the Randian.
Yeah I was wondering where Abe was too, especially now with Peggy making bank as copy chief.
― Roz, Monday, 11 June 2012 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
that one ginsburg line made me lol though - about Don not letting a day go by without calling him an idiot.
Don seems more troubled by the spirits of the dead than the average person doesn't he?
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
he was really foaming at the mouth in that Topaz scene, struck me as a bit over the top
Ginsburg is very near the edge at all times.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
tbf he's left behind a lot of corpses
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
his mom, his dad, his brother, Don Draper, Anna Draper, Ms. Blankenship, Lane
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
The girl he strangled and hid under the bed in what was already a dream.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
...and although we just haven't seen her lately, I assume Midge has probably OD'd by now. xp
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
walking off set show was too sirk for me
yeah my wife didn't really like that scene, felt it was too canned and perfect. that's kinda how I felt about the lining-up-at-the-new-office-window shot tbh, kinda cool but it looked like they were all lining up in perfect place for next season's poster.
― dmr, Monday, 11 June 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
i can see the poster:"Next season on Madmen...<window shot here>find out who Don kills next.<logo>"
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
My architect friend commented on Joan's marking on the carpet "the stairs will go here."
Uh, think again.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
right. the slide is going there. *smacks head*
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
wtf was roger doing at the end? yoga or something?
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
He's tripping on acid.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
NAKED
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
TRIPPIN BALLS
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
Where's he gonna put his note?
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
when people say that shot of don leaving the set was like "sirk," what do they mean?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
roger has it all worked out.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Monday, 11 June 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
also i hate these end-of-episode montages with the patterned gliding camera movements. they are this grand, bombastic gesture of closure, "see how this all ties together," that is kind of belied by the actual content. (in other words, it's all very "magnolia.")
i guess the idea is to take stock of various characters and where they are, so you can sit back a nod, anticipating how these various plots will pick up or resolve a year from now, when the 6th season begins. but the gesture is kind of insulting, as it always is, since the audience can figure that stuff out anyway. i don't need an additional reminder in the form of a last-minute montage. it wouldn't bother me as much if this is the level the show typically operated on, but it's not. the show--with some frequent and regrettable exceptions--is generally one of the shows on TV that trusts its audience to assemble things themselves, at least more than is common for television.
the actual ending--the hard cut to black as don decides how to respond to the flirtatious girl at the bar--was pretty great, i thought. it's also a kind of dramatic gesture, but one that actually seems to mobilize the audience's engagement with the show in a more interesting and active way. it asks us to assess don's behavior in season 5 in light of what we've seen before, and decide if he has undergone a permanent transformation or if he is merely in a "phase," soon to revert to his womanizing ways. i like the way it demands that we take stock of the significance of the last season in light of the show in general. it's a smart way to end a season, and it has the genuine sense of --not full closure, obviously, but a kind of contingent closure (perfect for an ongoing series). as opposed to the psuedo-closure, the empty stylistics of the montage sequence.
peggy seeing the fucking dogs was pretty hilarious though.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
that whole post is absolutely on the money. i've never been able to put my finger on why those gliding/stock-taking scenes are so insulting, but you nailed it in one.
― indian rope trick (remy bean), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
i didn't like the gliding camera either, but thought the montage itself was nice as a series of shots of isolation.
― ryan, Monday, 11 June 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
i think the "sirk" comments are kinda weird myself, but i imagine they are objection to some perceived heavy-handed visual symbolism. (i thought the shot in question was tremendous though--it was clear and evocative and made a lot of emotional sense to me.)
― ryan, Monday, 11 June 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I pretty much agree with that amateurist post, altho I'm a little more forgiving of the montage approach if the shots contained within are worth it (eg, features comical dog fucking)
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
those song-plus-montage things are consistently the worst thing about the series. wasn't there one in season 2 that was set to some contemporary rock tune? that might be the show's nadir for me.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liarrDZqG0E
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
ha wasn't it arcade fire or sth? i can only imagine the negative feedback they got on that. at least i hope so.
― goole, Monday, 11 June 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
part of what saves the montage for me is that it contains dogs fucking and roger trippin nude. i dunno i didnt get a "time of your life" vibe from it but thought it was sorta genuinely odd.
― ryan, Monday, 11 June 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
right but the naked roger + dogs fucking just kind of revealed how corny the montage trope is. i'd rather they just have ended the plotlines on those shots without the accompanying music or gliding-lateral-tracks-DO YOU SEE?!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah agreed in general.
― ryan, Monday, 11 June 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
btw you can see why i basically find magnolia intolerable. even though PTA does this stuff with a ton of craft and skill, i still feel like somebody is reaching out from the screen and hitting me over the head with a cereal box for 140 minutes.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
idk I'd find being hit on the head w a cereal box kind of relaxing
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
if the status quo is being hit on the head with something else, sure.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
Really wouldn't mind if they emulated/straight up ripped off some classic 60's cinema stuff instead.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
Well, for one thing, you couldn't show side boob or dude ass in an American film til '66-'67, so they delivered that this time.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
so earlier seasons lose points for anachronistic side boob?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
Critics called those seasons "European".
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
the dogs fucking would have lost something for me without "You Only Live Twice" soundtracking it
― I DIED, Monday, 11 June 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
there was an early ep that used a decemberists song, i think it was playing over a montage of all the ladies taking off their bras
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:55 (eleven years ago) link
yeah part of the letdown of that montage is finding out that the writers of mad men have pretty corny indie fuxor tastes in contemporary music.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
I have totally blocked that out. let's never mention it again.
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 23:00 (eleven years ago) link
I have this strange memory of one of the ladies taking off her bra and showing full anachronistic boob in the office party scene. I think Harry was involved. Probably the Decemberists too. A low point all round.
― Alba, Monday, 11 June 2012 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
Hating closing montages is very anti-Wire!
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 June 2012 23:27 (eleven years ago) link
agh that kind of shit drove me nuts in the Wire
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, June 11, 2012 6:27 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it depends on how they're done i guess. i've never seen the wire.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 11 June 2012 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
*bites tongue*
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
I would say don't watch it if you don't enjoy constantly being hit over the head with obviousness
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 June 2012 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
They do that a lot on CSI (all three flavors) as well.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 11 June 2012 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
IIRC, the one time we saw a female nipple on the show was way back in S1 when Hildy (Pete's o.g. secretary) slept w/Harry. Xposts
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 11 June 2012 23:46 (eleven years ago) link
Joyce also showed Peggy/us some nude photos.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 00:21 (eleven years ago) link
I liked the closing shot a lot, too. It also fits with all the "look at all these obvious things you may have missed" recapping going on in this ep, to drive home the "hey, hasn't Don been good recently ~think abt it~" point that's been mentioned a few times upthread.
Wondered at the significance of Adam appearing. iirc his death started Don's re-evaluation of himself, and looking back a lot of this season was Don coming to conclusions -- about his talent, what he wants from/for the firm, himself as a boss, what lines he'll cross, what he wants in family life, etc. Final shot suggests he's also reaching one about his personal life.
Worked for me as a setup for a new tone next season, anyway.
― stet, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
also the writers thinking oh shit we've only mentioned dick whitman once this season better remind folks.
― jed_, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
I don't agree that the cut to black was exquisite, and I think a lot of the montage was lazy television, but the part about everyone experimenting all season with enlightenment and then blowing it off as folly is spot on.
“This episode suggests a new direction forward, all right, but it’s one that says the rot has taken hold and might be spreading, that all is emptiness and pointless struggle, and everything you really want will always be held just in front of you, a carrot to keep you marching in a straight line. In short, it’s a direction that loops right back around to where we’ve always been, which is why the episode’s “cliffhanger,” if it can be called that, involves Peggy realizing that she still doesn’t have the job she’d dreamed of and Don being asked by a woman at a bar if he’s alone. (The cut to black here is actually fairly exquisite. We know what he’s going to say, and we don’t need to see it. It’s a moment of poetry in an episode that veered wildly between mystique and rampant highlighting.) It’s a boldly cynical new direction, particularly after a season that flirted with the characters experiencing something beyond themselves. Or, as Roger said of his enlightenment last week, “it wore off.”— “The Phantom” | Mad Men | TV Club | TV | The A.V. Club
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 00:41 (eleven years ago) link
"it wore off" was a fabulous line. def reminded me of the best of sopranos-style storytelling in spirit
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
“This episode suggests a new direction forward, all right, but it’s one that says the rot has taken hold and might be spreading, that all is emptiness and pointless struggle, and everything you really want will always be held just in front of you, a carrot to keep you marching in a straight line.
i really hate these monday rehashes that start by explaining the "themes" of the previous night's episode. barf.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:37 (eleven years ago) link
i h8 it when people evaluate and discuss art too
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
i thought this p much ruled
very sad tho, this whole season has been v bleak. i think i said that about previous seasons, which are sort of running together in my mind now that i think.
― goole, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 03:01 (eleven years ago) link
"sirk" = heavy handed, histrionic, beautifully shot, weirdly out of time, plays on light and darkness, i can go on here
― “Argh!” I cry. But I really don’t care. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
so peggy invents the virginia slim, that's p cool
― goole, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
was the dogs screwing a "you've come a long way, baby" moment?
― s.clover, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 03:22 (eleven years ago) link
I thought it was more like "Richmond's not exactly Paris, is it ... nope, it's not"
― dmr, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 03:40 (eleven years ago) link
in paris the dogs fuck in missionary
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 03:46 (eleven years ago) link
(get it)
loved this episode. u guys will nitpick anything to death even closing montages with dog sex & roger sterling tripping balls naked.
fwiw don doesnt actually flirt at the end they flirt w/ him, altho obv i think its the pt where we realize hes done w megan
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 05:01 (eleven years ago) link
Didn't realize how postery it was at the time, but yeah:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5fzreMgDG1qas9bho1_500.gif
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 05:26 (eleven years ago) link
I really enjoyed this episode as a season finale.
― *tera, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:17 (eleven years ago) link
I'm done with Megan.
― *tera, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:18 (eleven years ago) link
Don walking away from megan "working" was maybe the most beautiful shot of Mad Men yet. I was unsure of this episode but the ending really gave me hope for the next season. The biggest disappointment was Pete, what exactly does he have to be so forlorn about with Trudy and a baby at home, even if he wasn't at SCDP he wouldn't be starving or in need of work. With Pete I betrayed more than any other character.
― JacobSanders, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:21 (eleven years ago) link
Isn't Pete meant to be suffering from depression? Plus like as much as he is a nasty piece of work, just because Trudy is nice doesn't mean he should be happy.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:29 (eleven years ago) link
<i>"...it asks us to assess don's behavior in season 5 in light of what we've seen before, and decide if he has undergone a permanent transformation or if he is merely in a "phase," soon to revert to his womanizing ways."</i>
I don't think Don was in a phase, I think he actually fell in love with Megan because of who he thought she was. Megan managed to lose his respect. I don't think he will cheat on her or cheat on her for long and will just jump to divorce.
― *tera, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:29 (eleven years ago) link
The biggest disappointment was Pete, what exactly does he have to be so forlorn about with Trudy and a baby at home
he gives a (really good, if a little on the nose [DRINK!]) speech about this to post-shock Rory.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:34 (eleven years ago) link
So Pete's problem is he doesn't want to live in the country and his wife does? Because other than that, I can't really sympathise with Pete's grievances. I had the hope that Pete was becoming the stand-up guy of the show, beautiful wife, new born child, new partnership, taking the reins at work, etc. Instead we get a sob story about how this "problem" was there from the beginning?? What problem exactly?
― JacobSanders, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:49 (eleven years ago) link
Guys being happy isnt like a math equation "oh wife and kids = happy"
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 06:56 (eleven years ago) link
that's kind of the crux of the show. a lot of the least happy people on the show are the ones who are trying to live out the ideal that they were raised to strive for only to find it puzzlingly unsatisfying. the gag is they work at an ad agency where they manufacture these ideals.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 07:01 (eleven years ago) link
maybe they'll change the company name to Sterling Cooper Draper Pete, could keep all the SCDP signage.
― I DIED, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 07:07 (eleven years ago) link
They'll adjust the "P"'s into "H"'s with the aid of a hammer and/or white-out.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 07:12 (eleven years ago) link
What I took away from it was that this season we've seen all the leads try and be what other people want them to be:
Pete as a family man in the suburbsRoger as a younger man and monogamousJoan as policewoman as a stay-at-home motherPeggy paying her duesGinsberg getting a 'proper' jobKen giving up writingKinsey as a KrsnaHarry as a rebelDon as a loving husband and fatherLane as a providerThe company as a small one
And they've all failed at it. This season was their "living twice". Now they have to go back to their previous lives.
― Desire is withered away from the sons of men! (aldo), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 07:13 (eleven years ago) link
No hugs and no learning.
― Alba, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 07:49 (eleven years ago) link
Ken Cosgrove otm re Pete: "He imagined Beethoven, deaf and soul-sick, his heart broken, scribbling furiously while death stood in the doorway, clipping his nails," Ken writes. "Still, Coe thought, it might have been living in the country that was making him cry. It was killing him with its silence and loneliness, making everything ordinary too beautiful to bear.”
― Roz, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 08:11 (eleven years ago) link
So Pete's problem is he doesn't want to live in the country and his wife does?
no, it was that he wanted a city pad to have sex with other women, the idea was given to him on the train by alex's husband even before he met her iirc.
― jed_, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 11:27 (eleven years ago) link
Kind of an underwhelming end to an otherwise amazing season I think. The Pete storyline wasn't really strong enough to be left til the final episode to resolve and the mental illness angle felt kinda tacked on. Although watching Pete get punched in the face is always a joy.
I feel that what Don actually thinks about and wants from Megan is as slippery a concept now as it was at the start of the season, although that's deliberate I think.
Peggy is the only character who Don's come into contact with who is unequivocally better off for having met him, right?
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 11:38 (eleven years ago) link
I thought it was great. It had to be a good deal more understated than the previous two episodes.
Will there be as big a gap as last time before 6?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 12:09 (eleven years ago) link
xp Anna was.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 12:13 (eleven years ago) link
I really like whoever connected "You Only Live Twice" to the entire season, these characters trying to live out a second life that is ultimately as un-fulfilling as the first lives. Don maybe at a slight advantage cos he was already on his second life, and has been for a while.
Pete's storyline is that he's been fantasizing about this romantic life of adultery in the city and it turned out to be everything he didn't want, to comedic effect. His romance doesn't just 'forget about him' in an emotional sense, but in an entirely literal way. Trudy mentioning, yeah let's move to the city, is a great ironic slap in the face that this show does so well this season. Be careful what you wish for, because it may come true, and if you've piled all your hopes and dreams into it, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment.
People always want more, they always want what they can't have, it doesn't matter if they have 50% of everything, they need that 100%! Don's Dow speech is more or less an objective analysis of everyone's tumultuous season.
Megan, I pretty much always thought, was going to give in to being an ad model. It fits with the cynical view of this season. Why did she sell out her dream of art? Was taking her friend's job and asking Don a last minute switch into the manipulative power plays their relationship seems more and more based on? It's funny, as optimistic and wide-eyed as her post-SCDP career is, it almost feels like she had more integrity as a Mad Woman than an actress. The biggest example i can think of is her not wanting to take all the credit when Peggy said "This is as good as it gets" vs. pretty much stealing her friend's acting gig from out under her.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 12:14 (eleven years ago) link
Seemed pretty out of character to me, her stealing the gig, but w/e.
What do you think was going on in Don's mind when he watched Megan's reel? (I was thinking "I hope this is her swan song and she's gone next season, I like her but she screws w the show's dynamic")
― BC Forgbs (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:15 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't think her stealing the gig was odd, but I did find the idea that she'd want the gig at all a little odd. But her behavior overall this season seems pretty confused which I guess is kind of the point.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:28 (eleven years ago) link
I think she started out wanting to make it on her own but at the end was desperate and basically wanted any acting gig she could get just to prove to herself that she wasn't completely wasting her time
― silverfish, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
Also, I think Pete is the kind of person Megan's mother was talking about when she was talking about people who have an artistic temperment with no talent to go along with it. From the first season Pete has been shown to be someone who would like to be creative (see his failed writing career) -- that's one of the reasons he has always had this fixation on Don.
― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:33 (eleven years ago) link
What do you think was going on in Don's mind when he watched Megan's reel?
I think he was trying to figure out whether Megan's mother was right about Megan having the artist's temperament without the artist's talent.
― silverfish, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:36 (eleven years ago) link
and I think he gave Megan the acting gig because he saw that Megan's mother was right
― silverfish, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:38 (eleven years ago) link
That's what I thought too! But the reel was so short it didn't really telegraph any definitive shittiness
― BC Forgbs (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:41 (eleven years ago) link
I like the idea of "You Only Live Twice" emphasis on ONLY. Philandering Don Draper is the second "life". Happily married one makes a third.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:43 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know, I thought the reel was actually good, and that Don realized so. It's probably important to the interpretation of the scene that he's smoking, which a doctor told him not to do.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:50 (eleven years ago) link
I laughed really hard at the mayo sequence
I don't know, I thought the reel was actually good, and that Don realized so. It's probably important to the interpretation of the scene that he's smoking, which a doctor told him not to do. --Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau)
I couldn't tell how much time had passed since the dentist... He had no swelling or bruising so it could have been days or weeks.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:53 (eleven years ago) link
Also I think it's pretty clear Megan is not untalented and her mom is a basically a rotten person.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, Megan's turned out spectacularly well considering her parents.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 14:01 (eleven years ago) link
not so sure don is walking away from megan, either in the so-called sirk shot or otherwise. i think there's a pretty explicit parallel b/w her illusions of success as an actor and betty's illusion of success as a model. i kinda think don is all paternalisticky to megan b/c he doesn't want her to become the bitter, don-hating, husk that betty became as her career collapsed.
― indian rope trick (remy bean), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 14:09 (eleven years ago) link
Trudy mentioning, yeah let's move to the city,
Trudy's not moving
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
are people taking it for granted that Don tells those girls he's single after the final cut
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
no
― goole, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
I really don't understand why anyone would think that.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
Well, the question wasn't "Are you single?" -- it was "Are you alone?"
EXISTENTIAL.
― Never translate Dutch (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
accept the mystery
― goole, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
it was just this aside posted upthread that bothered me:
The cut to black here is actually fairly exquisite. We know what he’s going to say, and we don’t need to see it.
cuz uh imho, we DON'T know, that's what's so great/compelling about it!
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
what other color are they going to cut to
― indian rope trick (remy bean), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
cut to fucking damask and play some kinks
cut to paisley
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
cut to hexagons
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
retroactively upset this didn't happen
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know, I thought the reel was actually good, and that Don realized so.
That was what I thought too, Don is watching her and smiling but my wife felt there was a point where you could see a sad look cross her face and Don notices it and stops smiling. And at that point decides he has to do this for her.
I didn't catch that myself (and haven't re-watched) but it seems plausible.
― dmr, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that's similar to how I read it - Don being sentimental, for the most part
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
well, he's giving her a fair shot – he's investing time (albeit minutely) in her aspirations. irrespective of an emotional component, he' s taking her seriously.
― indian rope trick (remy bean), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know what to make of that scene. she's quite a beauty tho. her reel was great!
my impression was more melancholy, it looked like don knew something was basically wrong
― goole, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
At one point, he testified, Sandusky chased him in a car while he was on foot, demanding that the boy spend more time with him.
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:35 (eleven years ago) link
― retro-shittified (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
don would know that's basically wrong
― “Argh!” I cry. But I really don’t care. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
I missed that scene
― dmr, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
Favorite scene in the whole series.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
there was a point where you could see a sad look cross her face and Don notices it and stops smiling
I picked up on that, but didn't realize at the time exactly why Don had stopped smiling.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
megan had success at advertising, was then celebrated by coworkers, but didn't care for it. then megan's dad tells her that her idea of success, or what she is/should be striving for, is all wrong. and then finally megan hangs out with a bunch of struggling actresses, and then herself becomes so desperate to succeed that she settles on a path that seems to defeat the original point of striking back out into acting in the first place.
basically, megan's never known what she wants. but at least earlier in the season her intentions seemed noble.
― phantompenguin, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 03:40 (eleven years ago) link
Jaguar VPs on the season: http://gawker.com/5915534/how-it-feels-to-watch-mad-men-total-your-car-company
― I DIED, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 03:46 (eleven years ago) link
Wallowing in filth and all varieties of social brutality and tragic failure and you polish it off with a musical reference to the Woody Allen Casino Royale and end the entire fucked up season with You Only Live Twice. I could not ask for a better show. Doctor Who better roll up looking fucking sharp.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
becomes so desperate to succeed that she settles on a path that seems to defeat the original point of striking back out into acting in the first place
maybe that's one reason don's feelings are hurt ... if her problem isn't with advertising per se then she wasn't "quitting advertising" it was "quitting working with Don"
but then she asks him for help so her career is just as wrapped up in his influent so I dunno
― dmr, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
influence
― dmr, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:10 (eleven years ago) link
was a little surprised how she f'd over her friend without so much as a second thought.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 05:35 (eleven years ago) link
After watching the ep again I see the ending differently. Don tells Peggy at the movies that when you help someone they succeed and move on. I thought Don was disappointed with Megan and falling out of love with her, but now I see him afraid of losing her to her career.
― *tera, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 05:59 (eleven years ago) link
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:35 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah no kidding. tho i guess you did see all the second thoughts.
― goole, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
Her friend's accent was weird, was it also French Canadian?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
a bit of googling tells me that actress is Swedish. Just looking around various comments sections, seems like loads of people thought her and the girl who came on to Don in the bar were the same person o_0
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
I initially thought that.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
I did too.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
it'd be a pretty massive coincidence guys
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
that didn't even occur to me
it did seem sort of weird to me that Megan jumped over her friend for the part, it made me think I'd misunderstood their initial conversation or something. We've never seen Megan deliberately take advantage of anyone before.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
it's a meg eat meg world
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
meg or be megged
the girl kinda looked like the other girl. not a big deal.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
all the commenters are like "yeah, she was out for REVENGE". I just think it's funny
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
kinda wonder if this last episode is supposed to be evidence of a kind of Don-destroys/corrupts-Megan arc - he's been complicit in making her as petty, deluded, and unhappy as all the other people around him
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
whereas before she was an innocent flower of optimism etc
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
Her parents bear as much responsibility for that as Don does, imo.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
she was really mean to her mother, so i sort of thought her mother's response was fair enough, and also very funny.
― s.clover, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
Kinda disappointed nobody jumped on shakey's C&P error up there utility-data style!
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
Why are you guys making Megan out to be a victim at Don's and her Mother's hands?
― JacobSanders, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
well her mother treats her like shit. Don doesn't victimize her, he just gives her everything she wants (which is not necessarily good for her)
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
Her parents know her, and I feel like her mother treats her squarely though maybe a little harsh, but who's parents aren't this way? Her Mom speaks in truth bombs!
― JacobSanders, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
my mom doesn't say horrible things like "at least my life is more than my children" TO HER CHILDREN, while they're crying on a bed
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
I've got to blame Megan's parents for effing her up. First her dad with all the "What are you doing in advertising?" like the episode before she quits her job, then her mom with "Some people have the temperament, blah blah" before she sells out her artsy dreams. Don seems to be the most reasonable, obviously emotionally invested but at the same time trying to support whatever she wants to do. Maybe he's the most adult out of all of them. At least at this point.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
which basically just signals "your emotional needs annoy me"
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
You really have to give her dad a lot of credit for drilling commie anti-corporate idealism into her head, pretty much directly leading to her quitting her job.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
remember that in the middle of megan's tantrum she basically just called her mother a failure. I think her character is very well written -- with a knack for lashing out in really mean-spirited ways.
― s.clover, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
Interesting interview with Weiner.
― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
ha he says "on the nose" in there
― goole, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
great interview. his comments on Don watching Megan's reel are illuminating
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
that is a good interview. also interesting that he sees Ginsberg as representing "nihilism, random violence, the rise of subversion in the marketplace".
― dmr, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
uh I think he just meant the latter re: Ginsberg
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
his comments on Don watching Megan's reel are illuminating
I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but I didn't notice any mention of this...?
― Never translate Dutch (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
weiner talks about it in the slate interview linked at the top of the article
― rayuela, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
Don is not a modern person. I don't think he ever had a perception of the fact that this woman — even though he loved her for her youth and independence, and loves her for that, and that's what we see when we see him watching that film is how much he loves her — he never perceived that she would separate herself from him.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
Ah, thx.
― Never translate Dutch (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
Don tells Peggy at the movies that when you help someone they succeed and move on. I thought Don was disappointed with Megan and falling out of love with her, but now I see him afraid of losing her to her career.
this is totally otm by the way. didn't occur to me that Don's feeling about Megan trying to find career success apart from him would also be wrapped up in his ... loneliness? ... after Peggy left the company
Don says something to Peggy like, "I knew you'd succeed, I just thought it would be with me." He could almost deliver the exact same line to Megan.
― dmr, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
well, Megan IS succeeding with Don - without him she was failing!
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
remember that in the middle of megan's tantrum she basically just called her mother a failure.
Children being cruel to their parents is WAY more forgivable than the other way round.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
well yeah but she broke up Team Don & Megan that Don was so hyped about after they saved the Heinz account (xpost)
― dmr, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
It was good enough for SMASH, I'll have you know.
― trishyb, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
great. Smash spoilers
― Number None, Thursday, 14 June 2012 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
unlike other spoilers the problem with Smash spoilers is that you have to hear more about Smash
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 June 2012 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
what a great last couple eps guys!
they're totally doing the sopranos thing - climax in the penultimate ep, last one is for the comedown.
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
i didn't really think about it before, are they putting the new stairway where lane's office used to be?
― the bibles fake lol don't trust a book (reddening), Thursday, 14 June 2012 09:20 (eleven years ago) link
No it's coming into where the conference room is now, I think.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 June 2012 12:08 (eleven years ago) link
what if the next season picked up at exactly the moment the last scene cut to black
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
"...no I am happily married."
/end series
― dan selzer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
"...she's working on the soundstage attached to the bar. she should be done shooting in about two hours if you want hang around for a few drinks and then get freaky."
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
i mean, that's what *i* would say at least.
Maybe she was asking "Are you alone?" cos she only had enough acid for one other person and wanted to offer it to him.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
nah, they're gonna drug him and steal his wallet. It keeps happening to him.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
Matthew Weiner: Alan, if you really want to know what the season's about, listen to the words to "You Only Live Twice."
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
Smash spoilers?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1355000/images/_1357091_smash150.jpg
― Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 14 June 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
while we're on the subject, that's an amazing song
― goole, Thursday, 14 June 2012 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
http://video.vulture.com/video/A-Death-Foretold-Foreshadowing
some parts of that video are a stretch but the compilation of all the shots of characters "lying in state" throughout the season is neat
― dmr, Thursday, 14 June 2012 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
hmm yeah some of that is grasping a bit, but the lying-in-state thing at the end is v interesting
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
thinking back, i think the only thing that didnt really satisfy me about the way this wrapped up was the pete/gilmore girl storyline. it was just such a romance-novel melodramatic situation... one last night before she forgets me forever... i dunno
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
I sort of didn't care about it myself
altho it led to the fight on the train, which was A+ awesome
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
ya and pete campbell getting socked twice in the season was great
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
― brony ver (s1ocki)
i think if they'd actually made it out to be a "romance" that it would annoy me, but as it was just a way to display how much of a miserable, void pete is i sort of enjoyed it. tho found it somewhat contrived.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
-xpost-
And tripping into the support column in his office.
― Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/PETE-CAMPBELL-TRIPS.gif
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
re: Pete/girl, I thought it's point was to introduce the idea into Pete's head that ~he~ might be depressed?
― BC Forgbs (Ówen P.), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
that seemed like part of it to me too yeah
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
Vincent kartheiser for the Emmy btw
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
how was he in that death clock movie
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
Kartheiser has always been good at playing whiny and creepy.
― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
still bummed i was wrong about the JJ cancer thing, was convinced it was in the card
― indian rope trick (remy bean), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
my gf thought that gilmore girl was pretending she didn't remember him, to put it in the past.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:42 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, I was wondering about that myself. Does electroshock therapy actually work that way?
― silverfish, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
That's possible, but it doesn't matter a whole lot since she'll probably never be seen again and Pete is getting his city fuck pad.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
the irony of trudy acceding to his desire for an apartment in the city is that he no longer wants it. i don't think we're going to see him turning into don.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
― silverfish, Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:46 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
memory loss is a possible side effect of ECT it seems, yes. Less so nowadays; the techniques for administering ECT have changed a lot.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
According To Wikipedia™ anyway
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
the techniques for administering ECT have changed a lot.
still barbaric tho
― indian rope trick (remy bean), Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
is it?
― goole, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
It turned Lou Reed staight(ish).
― dan selzer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
for a little while
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
yes.
Doesn't he though?
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
he wants it - it's not like he loves the burbs now. finding out what he does with it should be interesting.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
Howdy Doody fan club.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
He's gonna turn into a real pimp now--call him "The Camp".
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
the original Petey Wheatstraw
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
well the train rides are going to be very awkward from now on...
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
time to find a new seat. seriously, how did they always have the same seats!
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
It's not uncommon on commuter trains. If you always make the same train, and tend to sit in the same car because it's close to your entrance or where you want to exit, you start to see the same people quite a bit. He'll probably just take a different time train from now on!
― dan selzer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:46 (eleven years ago) link
Oh no, what if the other guy has the same idea and they STILL wind up on the same train?
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:48 (eleven years ago) link
next season is all Pete getting punched out at irregular hours every morning.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
its true i guess, i'm a v. irregular train commuter and i still see ppl i recognize.
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
― indian rope trick (remy bean)
it works.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 14 June 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
best friend's mother is a nurse, she does it, there are many people who it's the only thing that works for, and who otherwise couldn't live an even vaguely normal life.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 14 June 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
trying to shift your neurochemistry with some current doesn't seem morally different from doing same with drugs or exercise or sunshine or talking or anything else
― goole, Thursday, 14 June 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
yeah seems to me its purported creepiness is more an extension of it being forced on people involuntarily and, perhaps earlier on, due to its crudity as a method
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
also scientology has really exploited it to try and discredit psychiatry
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dj-jaffe/fda-considers-caving-to-s_b_346741.html
This last episode was pretty much perfection, I think. Far surpassed any film I've seen in the last... 3 years or so. Just... really great.
― homosexual II, Friday, 15 June 2012 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2012/06/mad_men_memories_ghosts_doppel.html#more
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Friday, 15 June 2012 02:17 (eleven years ago) link
that's good.
― goole, Friday, 15 June 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
watched this again last night - my opinion of Megan's mother is unchanged. when she comes in to find Megan in bed she's the one who starts going on about how the world can't fulfill all the dreams of little girls, that she's being lazy. Megan lashes back with the "is that what you tell yourself" comment but then her mom calls her "an ungrateful little bitch".
this is shitty parenting.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 15 June 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
Tough love
― *tera, Friday, 15 June 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
megan got to marry a cool rich guy instead of a pissy communist
― goole, Friday, 15 June 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
...and she's never had to blow Roger!
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 15 June 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
to complicate things further, am i the only on who got a sense that the chemistry between don and marie was somehow livelier than with megan?
― goole, Friday, 15 June 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
uh they hate each other...?
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 15 June 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
yes but
― goole, Friday, 15 June 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
leave your fan fiction for livejournal.
― tell it to my arse (jim in glasgow), Friday, 15 June 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
^applies to 80% of this thread honestly
― Authorities don't know who shot the 50 Cent the goose. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 15 June 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
from the op: "The creator compromised slightly on issue of the show’s running time, agreeing to the show running two minutes shorter in all epiosdes (45 minutes) when on AMC except the fifth season’s premiere and finale (47) — with an option for Weiner to turn in 47-minute episodes for other platforms like VOD and DVD. The main cast is signed on for two more season and no more cuts are expected there."
Did this actually happen? Every episode (ads included) seemed to run longer than an hour this season.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 17 June 2012 04:58 (eleven years ago) link
The eps on itunes were 47 minutes (credits included).
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 17 June 2012 05:27 (eleven years ago) link
All episodes this season ran past the hour
― dan selzer, Sunday, 17 June 2012 08:26 (eleven years ago) link
I just watched season 5, all 13 episodes, in four days, for the first time. Saw the last four episodes last night. A lot of things still not letting me go, haunting and enticing me, and I think this was by far the best MM season.
Went to read all the comments here after every episode which has been a treat :-)
Bit melancholy there's no more now. Do we know when season 6 will be aired? Next year?
― HO WBEAUTIFUL IS THE GENTLYFALLINGBLOOD? (Le Bateau Ivre), Sunday, 17 June 2012 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
i like that there will be a yearlong break (or more). this kind of takes up a lot of time, watching and thinking about etc. moving on to other things.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 17 June 2012 23:58 (eleven years ago) link
Lady Lazarus closing montage w/ other songs from Revolver:
http://vimeo.com/44437420
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
i give that another half hour of existence
― goole, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
Eleanor Rigby works a little too well.
― old people are made of poop (Eric H.), Tuesday, 3 July 2012 16:19 (eleven years ago) link
A college professor of mine had a 1968 XKE, and told me about how he once defiantly stormed out of a faculty meeting only for his Jag to hilariously not start. As soon as Lane connected the hose I thought, yep, not gonna start.Plus, didn't Roger have some line about how they never start in the previous episode?
My mom still has her '67 XKE she bought new and the electrical problems are indeed legendary. By the early 70s, the faults with the Lucas-built electrics were so bad that Lucas became better known as "The Prince Of Darkness" - striking down innocent cars without warning. Lucas Electrics jokes are everywhere among gearheads from the basic "Q. Why do the English drink warm beer? A. Because they have Lucas refrigerators." to complicated eBay auctions for Lucas magic smoke. There's a page of this stuff: http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 20 July 2012 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
lmao those are great
― call all destroyer, Friday, 20 July 2012 02:04 (eleven years ago) link
nice to see jared harris get an emmy nom on his way out! also lol for days @ jon hamm being nominated for both don draper and his racist caricature "abner" from the 30 rock live episode
― deist mountain dew (reddening), Friday, 20 July 2012 13:04 (eleven years ago) link
Jon Hamm: able to offend EVERYONE, remain sexy whilst doing so
his first 30 Rock Live show was better imo but either way, the man deserves some credit for his comedy chops! He's consistent gold on 30 Rock.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Friday, 20 July 2012 13:39 (eleven years ago) link
jon hamm stole both of those 30 rock episodes, either way.
― phantompenguin, Saturday, 21 July 2012 06:05 (eleven years ago) link
BANJO
― where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Saturday, 21 July 2012 12:14 (eleven years ago) link
Peggy to remain as central character
― Dunn O)))))))) (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 27 July 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
phew!
― computers are the new "cool tool" (James Morrison), Saturday, 28 July 2012 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
feel like the "what is happiness? it's just the moment before you want more happiness" line is kind of a major signpost for where Don is going next season
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 September 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
to lots more happiness!!!
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Thursday, 20 September 2012 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 September 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
Season 6 is happening next spring/summer right?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Thursday, 20 September 2012 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think they've said yet, but hopefully they'll keep going with the spring season so I don't have to wait over a year for new eps.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 20 September 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
I think AMC is sticking w/spring rollouts for this show from here on out. I just hope they don't split the last season into halves like Breaking Bad.
― Instagrams of Lily on My Facebook Wall (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 20 September 2012 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
It's not as plot intensive/obsessed with tying up loose ends as BB, so you'd think a thirteen ep final season should be fine.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Thursday, 20 September 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
I thought there were two more seasons planned
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 September 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
yeah there are 7 total seasons planned iirc
― Clay, Thursday, 20 September 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
yum spring rolls
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Thursday, 20 September 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/QQnKI_FNQ5RHiedJbdHEkg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zMDU7cT04NTt3PTIxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/TVGuideTV/130311mad-men1_210x305.jpg
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 March 2013 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
o man
― balls, Monday, 11 March 2013 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2013/mar/11/mad-men-new-series-new-hire
― Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 12 March 2013 00:00 (eleven years ago) link
MAD MEN on AMC - Season 6
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 12 March 2013 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks! I’m a lazy ILXor who relies on Bookmarks.
― Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 12 March 2013 11:28 (eleven years ago) link
ugh, fat betty
― j., Wednesday, 27 March 2013 01:29 (ten years ago) link
fat betty was amazing. i think the scene where she goes to sneak a little whipped cream from the fridge, aerosols it into her mouth, gets disgusted with herself and spits it out in the sink is maybe the best scene in the entire series
― sleepingbag, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 01:34 (ten years ago) link
best scene of the series tbh vv
http://oi34.tinypic.com/11w6ck2.jpg
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Wednesday, 27 March 2013 01:47 (ten years ago) link
― Gukbe, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 01:48 (ten years ago) link
Fat Betty was solid, I thought. Better than hiding the pregnancy by holding bags and pots of flowers or what have you.
^^it also allowed them into an early Weight Watcher's meeting.
― Vol. 3: The Life & Times of E. "Boom" Carter (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 27 March 2013 03:43 (ten years ago) link
Bob Benson - Cuban refugee?
― Jaq, Thursday, 20 June 2013 12:57 (ten years ago) link
Wrong thread. Damn.
― Jaq, Thursday, 20 June 2013 12:58 (ten years ago) link
Accidentally posted some stuff about the first few episodes on the Season 4 thread...Finished last night. The last three episodes were very dark--convincingly so. (Peggy quitting, Joan's partnership, Lane.) Arguments between Don and Megan aren't as interesting as arguments between Don and Betty. Kinsey's return was less than what I'd hoped for. Sally and Greg continue to be compelling. There was a scene that I thought might have been the worst yet: Don's meeting with Dow chemical, where he tries to rah-rah them into wanting 100%. (I would think any client would have laughed him out of the room, yet even Leland Palmer seemed impressed.) Loved Peggy's little smile at the elevator as "You Really Got Me" started up at the end of the one episode--resurrected the song for me. The Lovin' Spoonful were great too; didn't know "Butchie's Tune" at all, had to look it up.
"Tomorrow Never Knows" was, of course, spectacular. I really regret not following the show when that first aired. (Hearing about it was possibly the first thing that made me decide I had to watch the show eventually.) I'd looked briefly at a YouTube clip already, but the sound was low, and I didn't know any of the context. "When did music suddenly become so important?"--that set everything up. I think Don meant the question purely in an advertising context, but the Beatles answered it in a much deeper way.
And Roger. If I could have chosen anybody to drop acid, he would have been my first choice by far. The way he asked Megan's mom "Would you take LSD with me?", he was like a little kid on Christmas morning. And the final shot of him naked at the window was brilliant.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 17:20 (nine years ago) link
Kinsey's return was less than what I'd hoped for.
aw c'mon this episode was incredible. the star trek script! Harry unable to resist the sexual wiles of hippie chick!
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 17:23 (nine years ago) link
I don't know, I just didn't care for him in that guise. I liked the woman, and I thought Harry's gesture of sending him off to California with $500 was one of his better moments.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 17:56 (nine years ago) link
Kinsey being a Hare Krishna is one of the best jokes the series has ever done.
― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:07 (nine years ago) link
Buried in one of the episodes was one of my favorite lines yet (Roger, of course): "Joan wanted to have baby...I figured, why do that to anybody?"
― clemenza, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:16 (nine years ago) link
(Jane, I meant, not Joan.)
Harry's gesture of sending him off to California with $500 was one of his better moments
I generally hate Harry, such a schmuck, but agree about this bit
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:43 (nine years ago) link
harry's an interested character, like you can see him morph over the seasons from this somewhat put-upon nice guy to this careerist slickster who at his core remains a nice guy, but he's covering it up with this strained douchebaggery, like this effort at being a don or a roger but only copying their worst surface qualities that he's learned from their nights out or something, but never developing as he's aged their genuinely decent qualities. and i like how his success is happening in the background and everyone is missing the boat he seems to have caught. he's basically the type of guy who runs listicle sites in the 21st century.
― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:46 (nine years ago) link
he's not a nice guy
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:48 (nine years ago) link
well he started off as one but the thing is that core of a nice guy is shrinking rapidly with every season and now he's becoming more and more this empty douchebag, but in the first season or two he was a "nice guy" but in the way we talk about those creepy indie rock nice guys who end up being assholes. seems to me he wasn't exactly a natural asshole, he has decided to become one.
― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:51 (nine years ago) link
creepy indie rock nice guys who end up being assholes
haha yeah this sounds about right
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:52 (nine years ago) link
Shakey's rabidly anti-Harry stance still bemuses and delights me
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:58 (nine years ago) link
it's true, I want to see him run over by a bus full of hippies or something
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 19:00 (nine years ago) link
just recalling that Wire-style montage at the end of Season 5; that was great. actually i wonder if it's fair to say The Wire 'invented' that particular style of montage at the end of seasons of TV, sorta feels like they did.
― piscesx, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 19:17 (nine years ago) link
"Butchie's Tune" is an old favorite that I didn't realize anyone else cared about, it put that episode over the top for me, totally devastating.
― JoeStork, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 19:22 (nine years ago) link
I go back and forth on Harry. He's been rotten at times, other times an okay guy just trying to do his job.
I was playing "Butchie's Tune" in class, found the whole scene posted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IUyhEr8dFk
Glen really deserves a spin-off show. Once an episode at a key moment, he'll turn to the camera, smile, and deliver his beloved "See? It all turns to crap" catchphrase.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 19:37 (nine years ago) link
ugh I hate that recap montage style - surely other cop shows did that before the Wire?
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 19:46 (nine years ago) link
"Butchie's Tune" previous fit of exposure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ArHxmELYg
Antonioni had some English session guys do these two Spoonful covers.
― Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 20:00 (nine years ago) link
Didn't Sopranos do a similar style of montage at the beginning/end of a coupla seasons?
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 20:18 (nine years ago) link
def
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 20:19 (nine years ago) link
this thread is really funny
― Οὖτις, Monday, 6 August 2018 21:13 (five years ago) link
like I was just scanning it because I've been rewatching s5 and there are a lot of genuine lolz
my posting style 6 years ago is kinda setting my teeth on edge
― devops mom (silby), Monday, 6 August 2018 21:57 (five years ago) link
I saw a post from 15 years ago saying I loved potlucks. I fucking hate potlucks.
― Yerac, Monday, 6 August 2018 22:04 (five years ago) link
so, is it me or does this show skip almost the entirety of 1967?
Season 5 ends a few months after Christmas 1966 - Lane forges the check around Xmas and then a couple episodes later he's dead. The last episode seems to take place in maybe spring of '67?
And then when season 6 starts I think we're already in 1968?
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 22:25 (five years ago) link
Yeah. IIRC, they completely skip over the Summer of Love. Cagey.
― Ubering With The King (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 8 August 2018 22:42 (five years ago) link
The way the finale drew Don into real-life events, they could have started that in 1967: Don goes back to see Anna's niece, she drags him to Monterey, clip of Janis Joplin singing "Ball and Chain," and instead of a stunned Mama Cass, you instead cut to a stunned Don Draper.
― clemenza, Thursday, 9 August 2018 01:58 (five years ago) link
...and then he hooks up with her.
― Ubering With The King (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 9 August 2018 02:26 (five years ago) link
Lol
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 9 August 2018 02:42 (five years ago) link
Won't try to open this whole thread to see if there's a similar post, but beautiful images near the end of "Tea Leaves" where the kids chase fireflies on the front lawn.
https://mindlessones.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fireflies1.jpg
― clemenza, Tuesday, 20 April 2021 23:03 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iw0euc4qDk
― clemenza, Wednesday, 21 April 2021 23:18 (two years ago) link