― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Tunisian engineering students spell the Arabic words "tunus hurra" - free Tunisia - in silent protest.
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 00:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 00:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
"5. A new government composed of people outside the military who care about the people of Israel"
um what? is that a typo?
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
from here
heard the next young humma song touches on this
― *kl0p* (deej), Friday, 28 January 2011 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/27/egypt-riot-security-force-action
pretty incredible audio taken by a british journalist picked up by security forces and beaten
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 00:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:55 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
haha yeah i didnt quite get that one either
good coverage from 'gordon reynolds' at the awl
http://www.theawl.com/tag/egypt
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 00:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
david shapiro should cover the egypt uprisings
― buzza, Friday, 28 January 2011 01:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
an egyptian army officer shouted at me and told me to get out of the way and then he told me i should just go back to america instead of coming to egypt so i told him that i was in the press and he swung a club at me and hit me in the head. i fell down and saw stars not the kind of stars like the band stars or the ones in the sky at night but stars swirling around my head not quite like in a bugs bunny cartoon but not unlike them either which surprised me. i was dragged into a truck and i was thrown in the back where it smelled and the truck started moving and i heard people whispering all around me and i sat up and went into the corner and started crying thinking about going back to new york where it was safe and i would be safe.
― omar little, Friday, 28 January 2011 01:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
i heard that audio of the british journalist, it sounds like the last report from a doomed man based on where they're headed and the uncertainty of it all, i feel like it's a miracle he was able to get that audio out.
― omar little, Friday, 28 January 2011 01:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
damn goodxpost
― buzza, Friday, 28 January 2011 01:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
For a second i thought it was the PRR guy lol
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 January 2011 02:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dumb question, but what do these protestors want from a more democratic government that their current despots aren't giving them? It's interesting that these aren't Islamist outbursts - we know what they want. But what's setting this off? Simple long simmering frustration with restricted freedoms? Human rights violations? Trash not getting picked up on time? I've followed this a bit, but must have missed any demand beyond new leadership.
(Related: could this finally be the manifestation of the Arab "youth bomb" that people have been warning about for years, the huge in number under 25 demo becoming politically aware?)
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 02:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
What we're seeing is something that would have been a lot different had the past ten years not turned out the way they did.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 28 January 2011 03:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
What do you mean? That these governments are weaker for our interference, or that the protestors more emboldened?
Also, can we discount the earlier unrest in Iran as a catalyst?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 03:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Or do you mean that the people are finally sick of having their despots propped up by the American government, whose presence in the region has never been welcome, either directly or by proxy?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 03:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
And if this is an extension of anti-American sentiment, does that mean these protestors want governments that are even more anti-American (and anti-Israel)? Because, boy.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 03:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:57 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think there are probably plenty of people and groups w/in the protestors who have tons of specific demands or hopes but as a whole the thing that seems to unite them is a desire for an actually democratic government. one thing that you keep hearing in man-or-woman-on-the-street interviews is "no one should be president for more than 10 years"
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 03:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
the proximate cause seems to be the so-far successful mass uprising in tunisia, showing that "it can be done" i guess. but theres been 30 years of "state of emergency" martial law in egypt--plus many ppl seem to be rallying around this guy khaled said, who was beaten to death last year by police when he asked for a warrant after they tried to search. i think someone may have self-immolated in an imitation of the guy in tunisia, too.
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 03:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
apparently shit is popping off in yemen now too
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 04:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
good post about elbaradei:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/01/nuke-watchdog-wants-to-lead-egypt-revolt-no-really/
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 04:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Times implies that the addition of the Muslim Brotherhood in the mix may change the dynamic. If I were [insert despot here], I would love for the extremists to get into the mix.
I still want to know what they'd want from a potential democratically elected government. Better ties with the US? Fewer ties to the US? In the case of Egypt, worse ties with Israel? A desire for expanded personal freedoms, or just the freedom to choose their oppressor?
The times lead does begin "Demonstrators in Egypt have protested against rising prices and stagnant incomes, for greater freedom and against police brutality," so maybe it is just a general sense of powerlessness. But the solution to those particular problems seems to be a more liberal democracy, which I can't see happening without clashing with the hardliners.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 12:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
The tinderbox seems to be Jobs and prices Tunisia and Egypt both have youth unemployment in the 30-40% range. That's just the spark, though, the fuel is many things and seems to be different things for different people; (suppression of religion, free speech, petty bureaucratic oppression, the price of bread etc. etc.)
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 13:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
They've shut off the internet throughout the whole of Egypt, with the exception of the one the Egyptian Stock Exchange is on.
― Matt DC, Friday, 28 January 2011 13:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
I read the other day someone quite vehement that the Muslim Brotherhood aren't extremists. Wiki says the organization is committed to non-violent reform but their goals are absolute Islamist life and law. What are the odds on what they'll do if/when they get a say in what happens next?
― go peddle your bullshit somewhere else sister (Laurel), Friday, 28 January 2011 14:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
The impression I get from my half egyptian colleague is the the MB are a pretty broad based organisation from hardline to very moderate. There strength to date has been drawn from the fact that they are the only focal point for opposition to the government. That said the secular opposition is starting from scratch and the MB have the organisation and structure to fill any power vacuum that emerges (unlike Tunisia where the Islamic opposition is much weaker).
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 14:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
And if this is an extension of anti-American sentiment, does that mean these protestors want governments that are even more anti-American (and anti-Israel)?
Mubarak is not anti-American. Neither was Ben-Ali in Tunisia. And whatever yap Mubarak might come out with in public, his government colluded with Israel in such things as maintaining the siege of Gaza.
But I think you are right, there is more to this than just anti-Americanism, and the Iranian protests are probably a bit of a catalyst. Back then there was talk about how quiescent Arabs were towards their own thuggish dictators, but now belatedly they are springing into action.
My sense at this stage is that the Arab world is enjoying a 1989 moment. It will be interesting to see whether this spreads to the monarchies, and indeed to Syria, the one definitively not pro-Western Arab state.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 January 2011 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Naipaul's travelogue in the immediate aftermath of the Iranian revolution is fascinating - at that stage it wasn't clear what sort it was - socialist or Islamic, and what kind of islamists they were. That's why I'm very worried to see the mb turning up.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ship_rex (+ +), Friday, 28 January 2011 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, January 28, 2011 7:45 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
my guess is that the protestors are coming from a wide enough swath of society that youd get "yes" answers to all of those things! its not exactly a politically organized uprising (at this point)
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 15:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean this is what that protest pamphlet that the atlantic translated has, not that its necessarily more representative of the protestors than anyhting else:
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
and my understanding of the muslim brotherhood is similar to what ed is saying. i think itd be possible (though i have no idea how likely) for a muslim brotherhood-majority gov't to be more democratic and free than a mubarak military state.
ive also read that the brotherhood wouldnt draw a wide-enough base of support from the population to BE the majority, and a kind of coalition with a secular organization is more likely to be regarded as a genuine alternative to mubarak in a practical sense.
but! ismael (and i guess naipaul) is right. iran could have gone in a lot of different directions--and it had a large cosmopolitan/secular population, not to mention a large and i believe fairly well-organized (?) communist party. (plus figures like ali shariati who threaded a needle somewhere between secular and hard-line)
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 15:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
re: Naipaul. Are you talking about 'Among the believers'?
Khomeini played the Communists very well but Iran could easily have gone a different direction.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
i asume thats what ismael meant? i dont know i really dislike naipaul so
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 15:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
I still want to know what they'd want from a potential democratically elected government.
jobs
or what ed said
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 28 January 2011 15:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
max where is your first image from? any info?
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/f9a2m/a_picture_i_took_yesterday_in_tahrir_square_cairo/
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 15:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
The problem with all entrenched regimes is that they become not only corrupt but very visibly so, hence the revolt against Ben Ali and clan in Tunisia. Today would have been Khaled Said's 29th birthday. He was beaten to death last summer for distributing video of police officers splitting up drugs amongst themselves that they had just confiscated. A photo of his smashed head in the morgue then quickly made the rounds. Egyptians are mindful that anti-Muslim Brotherhood, anti-islamist efforts by the regime have ended up leaving us with people like al-Zawahiri.
I have no idea about their sincerity but the Muslim Brotherhood has officially eschewed violence with few exceptions and apart from not being the regime, they also have a certain status in Egypt from their benevolent works, notably after the 1992 Cairo earthquake.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
It seems to be that lots of these Islamic groups eschew violence officially, but have no problem with it as a means to an end. It's hard to imagine a peaceful strict, hardline Muslim government, but hey, stranger things have happened.
Another question: how are these despots different than those de facto despots in Russia? The complaints these protestors have don't seem that different from what I imagine the average Russian would say, were they allowed to openly say it. And god knows, the Russian government is every bit as brazen as these middle eastern governments.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
But more popular amongst Russians me thinks, at least for the moment.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Just on the Muslim Brothers and elections and so on - the feeling in the academic literature is that Arab world Islamists win pluralities but not majorities in elections. So if post-transition elections in Egypt are run by proportional representation then we are not going to be looking at their having total power.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
gunfire & explosions on the al jazeera live feed - http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
whats happening are the mummies attacking
― marios balls in 3d for 3ds (Princess TamTam), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
But what's setting this off?
I heard the desire for a minimum wage is a big desire. Also 30 years under the same President is hardly a democratic regime, regardless of how much US officials kiss his ass.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
these pictures are incredible - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-cairo
this is an interesting piece about how tunisia, egypt and yemen are not the same - http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/homistan/days_of_anger.html - i'm not sure if i buy the denial of any link between them, but then i'm not the expert here...
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
When do the neocons swoop in and start taking credit for all this
― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Isn't there a strain of thinking that in these relatively diverse, relatively moderate countries, a Islamist government would spark a popular backlash when forced to actually govern? Turkey has managed a democratic coalition of hardliners and moderates, hasn't it?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Slightly tangential but moving:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/parting-glance-lucas-mebrouk-dolega-32/
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://renesys.com/blog/
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
This whole thing has had me thinking about Algeria in 1991. I do hope it all ends better.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
The complaints these protestors have don't seem that different from what I imagine the average Russian would say, were they allowed to openly say it.
the average russian thinks putin's awesome
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
think we're getting WAY ahead of ourselves with the speculation about what various post-despot govt's would look like in the Arab world
each of these states currently in flux (Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt) are ultimately at the mercy of their respective militaries and which way they swing (Yemen's trickier because the populace is so well armed, a civil war is more likely. But in Egypt it's gonna come down to whether or not the army + police are willing to engage in mass slaughter/repression)
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yes, Among The Believers. Should've clarified that I was talking about 79 not 09.
Also, there will be a struggle within the mb as to the direction it will take - being an organisation defined by its islamism, I would expect the more extreme elements to prevail, simply because if they do manage to co-opt mass support that's not going to be support for liberal democracy. Why would it be? People with that as a priority will be looking elsewhere.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
x-post Really? I bet they can muster a percentage of malcontents equal to that of Egypt. But then, Russia seems to be going through a transitional phase.
The question, then, is whether Egypt et al. are willing to go the full crackdown, and then if they do, whether they can survive the reaction. Unlike the relatively isolated and very hardline Iran, Egypt doesn't appear to have to same degree of control over, say, outside influences, let alone its own people.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
I would be extremely skeptical of any US news source portraying these protesters as anti-American and/or Muslim extremists. Clearly the demands are all pretty in line with democratic ideals and the kind of shit the US should be publicly rooting for.
I was in Egypt in 2006 or so on a school trip and had plenty of first-hand experience with the people, tho yeah as an American tourist in the more populated areas. Egypt is overwhelmingly Muslim, and this was smack in the middle of the Iraq War and Bush's 2nd term, and everyone I talked to had nothing but good things to say about America and Americans, even in the midst of all that. The most extreme they got was saying "We love America, we love Americans, we just don't like Bush". Now this probably has a lot to do with the fact that tourism is THE business in Egypt, and why on Earth would you badmouth someone you were trying to sell trinkets to.
Nonetheless, yes there were extremists out in the desert and stories of anti-American sentiments in the rural areas, but the vast, vast majority of people in Cairo and Luxor and Aswan were all very friendly and very nice.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
No way is foreign policy a motivating factor here in the slightest. We are just bystanders here and should mostly bystand for fear of contaminating whatever good things might emerge.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
They're not directly anti-American, but isn't one complaint that Mubarak is too pro American? And certainly too pro-Israel? (Which can be read as pro-American?)
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
x-post The vast majority of people everywhere are very friendly and nice.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Indeed, yes. Supporting the coup that blocked the elections there was one of the West's great mistakes.
JiC - I think, yes, that people do reckon that if the Islamists had to govern then people would become disenchanted with them. Or maybe they would be really good at governing and everyone would love them. Or whatever.
I think Ergodan is not governing as part of a coalition, but I am open to correction on this.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't really think that Egypt's position wrt the US is really an issue here compared to domestic corruption, poverty, massive inequality etc.
― Matt DC, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Al Jazeera live feed is amazing btw
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
my last post was an XPost to something.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
putin's approval rating was higher than any leader on the planet. medvedev's is lower, but most russians know putin's in charge anyway.
obv there are plenty of malcontents in russia! but no the country as a whole really, really likes him. i kind of wrote about why here (putin doesn't actually get mentioned haha, but after crushing the oligarchs and all the tough talk to chechan/islamic terrorists, his status is a function of the same phenom.)
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
sorry total thread derail. i am actually ashamed of how little i know about the egypt/yemen/everywhereelse situation, even though i've been trying to follow it.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
AKP/ergodan holds a majority in turkey, yes, but theyre hardly hardliners.
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
Police firing tear gas into a crowd while they're prostrate for prayers seems like a stupid move. (via aljazeera feed)
― earnest goes to camp, ironic goes to ilm (pixel farmer), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
army opening fire
not good
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh shit
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Ismael Klata, Friday, January 28, 2011 6:52 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
OTFM
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Muslim Brotherhood, Baradei under house arrest
would guess that Mubarak's speech is gonna be of the "I am not going to step down, return to your homes, protestors will be shot"
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
variety
Clinton calling for Mubarak to restrain security forces and for protestors to be peaceful, respect freedom of information/expression. (real message: US not gonna save ya Mubarak)
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
i wouldn't be so sure. if mubarak survives, well, here we are
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
right
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
but he'll have to figure out how to survive on his own
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wow that's really fucking dumb. That's the sort of image that goes right round the world.
― Matt DC, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah that's already all over my facebook wall.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, January 28, 2011 10:41 AM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark
they already have:
http://greatsatansgirlfriend.blogspot.com/2011/01/aflame.html
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
military armored personnel carriers in Alexandria
I think that was just previously fired tear gas floating around...? there was a pretty distinct break in gunfire/noise while the prayers were going on and then as soon as they were over everything erupted again
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
not surprised about the neocons lol
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
what i saw/heard was that the police fired tear gas canisters into the prostrate protestors just before prayers ended, whereupon one of the protestors just threw them back at the police...?
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak will no doubt barter with the State Department about getting the Ferdinand Marcos treatment.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
AP saying the foreign ministry is occupied/under attack
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
dudes not to sound too bilderbergy here or anything, but the state department talk about supporting the rights of the egyptian people and the hopes and dreams of the protestors is crafted for your ears, not mubarak's
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Which is why the statements pale beside the back channel shit that's no doubt going on.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
The 2010 legislative elections vote-rigging has hurt the NDP and Mubarak's legitimacy pretty badly.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
eh, we'll see
xp
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
It looks to me as if Clinton is angling for a negotiated departure by Mubarak, accompanied by an increase in political freedom. I think the US is aiming to structure the solution in a way that would protect its key interests: the peace treaty with Israel, the Suez canal, and co-operation against terrorism.
from the graun
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
that makes sense
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Beeb reporting protestors are trying to break into the main TV and radio building
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
police van torched
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is terrifying
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
woman on al-jazeera reporting 3 deaths, incl 14 year old boy
I was in Cairo in 2007 and all I can think right now is that, added to the pollution they always have, with fires now raging and tear gas all over the place, the air must be really awful.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
protesters trying to swarm ministry of foreign affairs, apparently
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
:)
― the realest shit i ever took (am0n), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
huh Al Jazeera also reporting that protesters have been welcoming of the military in various places - which is a good sign, I think. if the protesters get the military on their side, Mubarak is fucked.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Egyptian military, famously, haven't fired on the people in generations.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
well looks like they're moving in to secure the Foreign Ministry, Ministry of Information, etc so we'll see how this goes
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sky pointing out that the US spends $1.3bn a year on the egyptian military. They can't fire on the people, that ought to mean.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Pretty sure Egypt is the biggest if not second biggest recipient of US foreign aid
― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
(it's second)
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ah yes second biggest. Viva Israel.
― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-egypts-day-of-reckoning-2196751.html
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
hillary right now tellin egypt to TURN THAT INTERNET BACK ON
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
TEAR THAT FIREWALL DOWN, MR MUBARAK
^^ this will be a headline soon if it isnt yet
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha yes that more what i was reaching for
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
egypt is gone off the net because of u
― am0n, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
de nile of service
― maurice "baby doc" chevalier (brownie), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
interviews on al jazeera seem to pretty much exemplify the state department position here: talking about how we're still besties with mubarak but making really vague remarks about how "our principles" require respect and support for the protesters, and refusing to reconcile or even acknowledge the contradiction while waiting out the crisis to see whom we have to negotiate with at the end.
reporters also keep saying things about the protesters in cairo and suez "welcoming" the military? and shaking hands in the streets? which seems like a really huge deal but which i can't get any details about.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
reports are saying tens of thousands of protesters in egypt - in a city the size of cairo tens of thousands is not that big - def needs to grow to be effective
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
― maurice "baby doc" chevalier (brownie), Friday, January 28, 2011 1:18 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
fuckin nailed it
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
asp.net
― am0n, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Need to leave Mubarak a ladder to climb down xp, he can't be left with ordering fire as his only option. It might look duplicitous but it might work - trying to please a domestic audience shouldn't be a priority here.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Transition also needed or move up the September Presidential elections
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
curfew being totally ignored, NDP headquarters in cairo apparently firmly occupied by protesters. "no sign of police" in suez--just the army, whom the protesters are cheering. (in cairo they're being more aggressive with the army, at least outside the NDP building.)
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak taking his time with the speech-writing eh
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
you can't rush inspiration
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
Polishing his prose with Nile water.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
Obama doubtlessly making FDR's "our SOB" remaark about Mubarak
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
maybe a looter got his pen.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
NDP headquarters in cairo apparently firmly occupied by protesters.
I have read that it was almost entirely burned down.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Best coverage on this is here: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
live stream here: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― am0n, Friday, 28 January 2011 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp -- it was! they are occupying the husk.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Unfortunately, I can't watch that AJE stream at work.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
good info: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Apparently Syria is suspending Internet service as well.
― An Artily Shot Sesame Street (Eazy), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
my cousin who works for the state dept. just got assigned to egypt and moved there a couple weeks ago
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
exciting first day otj
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
I sent her an email saying whats up hows egypt
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
"I read a thread about it"
maybe someday she'll have enough internet to read that email
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
al jaz reporting protesters finding ammunition that says "made in the usa" on it
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've never understood why anyone would stamp "made in ___" on a weapon. so stupid.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
I remember some unedited footage aired on CNN a day or two after 9/11 from Afghanistan, and the presumably Taliban rebels were doing the same, holding up rocket launchers for the camera and showing the U.S. manufacturer info. If I remember right, it wasn't "Made in U.S.A." as much as the company name and city/state.
― An Artily Shot Sesame Street (Eazy), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
made in tulsa oklahoma whatever the fuck that is alalalalalalalala
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 20:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
born in the usa
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
designed by apple in california
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 20:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
watching Gibbs try to avoid saying that the US gov't continues to stand by Mubarak was relatively lolworthy.
"Does the administration continue to support Mubarak?"
"We're monitoring a fluid situation."
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 20:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
I read that as "we're monitoring a fuiud situation"
― I've been dancing since 9 and I'm tired and hungry (Dorianlynskey), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
youth have formed a human chain around the national museum
ruling party hq "burnt down"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
BBC reporter heavily beaten - he says there are many plainclothes police and they are "very very violent"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://twitter.com/HosniMobarak
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah was so heartened when i saw this
also
An Egyptian anti-government activist kisses a riot police officer following clashes in Cairo. Photograph: Lefteris Pitarakis/AP
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
and now from bizarro world:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/258263/what-next-after-mubarak-michael-rubin
comments especially...
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
what will the army do, is the question, I guess
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
nro commenters standard line on anything happening in the middle east: IRAN IS BEHIND IT
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
I couldn't finish this - every single sentence had something that was just flat-out incorrect in it.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
NYT: My colleague Katrin Bennhold writes from Davos to point out that a senior Saudi official, Prince Turki al-Faisal, a former director of Saudi Arabia's intelligence services and ambassador to the United States, was asked if a wave of democracy across the Middle East might be even more destabilizing than a nuclear Iran he had been warning against. He replied: "I don't know -- in Saudi Arabia we have neither nuclear weapons nor democracy."
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Reagan's Soldier
01/28/11 11:49
Link
Report Abuse
Iran is behind these protests. This is a clear attempt to bring an Islamist government to power in Egypt. The threat to America is dire. The threat to Israel is mortal.
America should launch airstrikes against the protesters. If Mubarak falls, and the new government includes any Muslims, we should launch a preemptive strike before the new government can hurt Israel.
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, January 28, 2011 4:00 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
that is the question protestors pose
― ice cr?m, Friday, 28 January 2011 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh man plz don't post any more comments my brain will explode
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah seriosuly
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, January 28, 2011 3:08 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
did anyone else think 'hey, we still make stuff!'
― marios balls in 3d for 3ds (Princess TamTam), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
watching protestors line the streets and cheer on the incoming military tanks is fucking breathtaking
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
dying @ that... egyptian govt made up entirely of copts, that would work well
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
at the thing goole posted i mean
xxxp guns & ammo we're still good at. priorities, etc
albert jazeera
― am0n, Friday, 28 January 2011 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
surprised no one's mentioned this yet
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
can the pyramids be burned? they're made of stone iirc - maybe they can flip them over
― marios balls in 3d for 3ds (Princess TamTam), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Thanks, goole, I had just come to post that.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
I went on a rather nice tour in Egypt in 2007 and our lovely tour guide, a Coptic lady from Cairo, had nothing but good things to say about Mubarak. I grokked it all as completely insincere and let her be, but it was dispiriting to see such a nice lady who was obviously so enamored of her country's heritage have to spout a bunch of rubbish wrt a regime she obviously feared was paying attention to what she said.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Reports of Copts on the protest lines surrounding/protecting Muslims from the riot police while they take time to pray without leaving the protests.
In the midst of a really fucked up world, sometimes I'm just blown away by the sheer humanity present around us.
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
So what's with the latest rumors about Mubarak et al flying out?
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Guy from muslim brotherhood on the bbc saying he had inside news that his health had suddenly gone downhill, hmmm.
Also random egyption protester on the bbc with the quality dad joke: "Can I just say, with respect to Joe Biden saying that Mubarak is not a dictator, I think if you were to look in a dictionary under the word 'dictator' you would see a picture of Mubarak."
― nanoflymo (ledge), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
me spell egyptian well one day
― nanoflymo (ledge), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
When a man sporting a long beard and a white robe began chanting an Islamist slogan, he was grabbed and shaken by another protester telling him to keep the slogans patriotic and not religious.
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak speaking
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
like, later, right?
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak is on now xp
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
. Riot police appear to have withdrawn from the streets of Cairo and Alexandria after several hours of confrontation with protesters, and in their place the Egyptian Army has taken up presence, guarding government buildings.
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
this doesn't bode well for the usa/egypt friendly on the 9th
― dan m, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egypt should be able to beat us anyway.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
looks like he's going to cling to power by ceding some nebulous "reforms"
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak has no intention of going anywhere any time soon
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
yup
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh shit he just said he is stepping down
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
wait what did he just say?
as of TOMORROW, will designate interim gov't
whoah
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
!!!
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
whoa wtf this speech took a drastic turn
― Clay, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh my god
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
ooh
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
"I have ordered the government to step down, and I will name a new government tomorrow"
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
is he just like dissolving parliament?
― mookieproof, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
he's staying put it looks like
― omar little, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
He's not stepping down, he's just changing the government
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
twitter responses saying otherwise -- mubarak asked the gov't to step down, whatever that means.
xps lol
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
he said he'd ordered the government to step down, and he'd name a new one tomorrow, but he himself isn't going anywhere!
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i was listening to a translation obv but i didn't hear him explicitly say he was leaving office?
xps yeah
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
not a tenable position surely
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
kinda hard to believe he's almost 83 yrs old
― omar little, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
What channel are you watching (if seeing this in the UK)?
i know yall hate me that's why i'm firing my staff
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
al-jazeera
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
reporter saying (obviously) that this won't be enough for the protesters, power is concentrated in the hands of the president anyway
so he's sacking his entire cabinet
wonder if he's playing for time to figure out some way to step aside without being killed/tried for crimes/imprisoned/whatever
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
thanks xp - don't have it, will keep getting my news from ilx
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
ismael - http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
sorry for bungling the translation guys
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
yes use lex's link
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
aljazeera is crashing my shit, so there's also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
― mookieproof, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
thanks lex etc
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
has anyone made the "mubarak in de nile" joke yet?
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
Al Jazeera English: Live Stream http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― am0n, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, January 28, 2011 5:33 PM (21 seconds ago)
haha it's okay, i was sort of tuning him out because it seemed like he wasn't saying much, then all of the sudden i heard "new government tomorrow" and read what you said
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm sure he could find refuge somewhere, Saudi at least. If he does attempt this legalistic gambit, (and assuming he digs in and keeps hold of power - something I'm very sceptical about) will he run for re-election in September?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ismael:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698live coverage there
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
more coverage here > http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
More like 'who hasn't'
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yes, upthread. (re De Nile joke)
― one pretty obvious guy in the obvious (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I wasn't really clear to me what "the government" meant in the context of the speech
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Got it now thanks xp - every time he looks up I expect to see that it's Berlusconi
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Got it now thanks
The de Nile joke?
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah is he dissolving parliament or just replacing his cabinet?
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
White House's maneuvering here is interesting - all the noise from the State Dept makes it seem like they'd all be more than happy to see Mubarak go, they're just worried about giving him an exit strategy that will preserve US interests
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
VVV
― http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ (am0n), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
all the noise from the State Dept makes it seem like they'd all be more than happy to see Mubarak go
on that note, i'm not really sure what to make of this piece that seems to be trying to claim that the US was behind this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html - seems a stretch, to put it mildly, but:
The American Embassy in Cairo helped a young dissident attend a US-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police.
On his return to Cairo in December 2008, the activist told US diplomats that an alliance of opposition groups had drawn up a plan to overthrow President Hosni Mubarak and install a democratic government in 2011.
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Shakey, given Egypt's history, that interest is likely to be 'stability'.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
aljazeera isn't giving me anything atm but that could be where i am (work)
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dissolving Parliament would require new elections, no? So perhaps dissolving the cabinet and maybe a reshuffling of the Prime Minister etc. from within the NDP.
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
Most hilarious bit of that entire speech was the bit that claimed that the ONLY reason the protestors were able to express their grievances was due to Mubarak's own reforms. Which...yes, this is in some meaning of those words true, but LOL at the idea that ppl should be grateful for him "granting" them rights of free speech etc. Also, the idea that his magnanimity in not ordering the army to use violent means vs. protestors should be appreciated.
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
^^^yeah this was my thinking too. even if he has the authority to dissolve Parliament (okay, sure) that would mean new elections. He can't just appoint a new Parliament, even if he is head of the majority ruling party.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
and yes that was lol about the freedoms of the press/assembly being "granted" by the gov't
Will the cabinet actually resign? Does it even matter? Is this just Hitler moving imaginary divisions around in his bunker?
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
bbc crawl says mubarak is "trying to distance himself from the crack-down across the country"
that would be quite a feat
― mookieproof, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
he's trying to buy some time
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 22:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
He looks like he's got all the time in the world - a very fresh-faced 83
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mmm. My mom's side of the family are Egyptian and the 76 year old great-aunts and great-uncles all look just as sprightly, if not moreso.
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 22:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
I bet they have the odd grey hair though.
How can he possibly hope this will work? The Queen could pull off that kind of line maybe, but not anyone who's actually been in power for thirty years. It surely depends only on whether or not force is used now.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
SHOCKINGLY the protesters have rejected mubarak's statement.
i mean surely he can't possibly hope to hang on if he isn't controlling the army...
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 23:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm waiting for a Sarah Palin video explaining that the seeds for all of this go back to some poor decisions made by King Tut.
― clemenza, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Total LOLs at the notion of an undemocratic despot sacking his hand-picked government to be replaced by another hand-picked government. Yeah, that'll sate the protestors.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
x-post Yeah, where is Palin on this? We need to hear from her!!!!!
Besides the point, but it's been good to see some different cities on the news recently. Alexandria seems nice, and Cairo looks pretty good too though noone I know has a good word to say about the place.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
MB asking the army to remove him
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
@omarbaddar Joke of the day -- Obama: "Hosni, I think you need to write your goodbye letter to your people." Hosni Mubarak: "Why? Where are they going?"
― An Artily Shot Sesame Street (Eazy), Friday, 28 January 2011 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Fox's coverage of this, according to Andrew Sullivan, has been minimal and exclusively of the "It seems as though Al-Qaeda-allied factions in Egypt might take over the Egyptian gov't"
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
**exclusively of that nature
Sullivan's great at times like this
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hasn't been Sullivan this time but his support crew etc.; Sullivan mentioned earlier in the week he's been laid low by bronchitis.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well done team, anyway
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah they are amazing
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 January 2011 23:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
speaking of which, via them
Apropos of nothing, I once read that the noise level of Cairo is a constant 85 dBs, louder than a freight train 15 feet away. This doesn't take into account civil unrest, of course.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
# Our administration is pushing for an Internet kill switch for POTUS while saying shutting down of tv and Internet is a "sign of dictators". 11 minutes ago via Twitterrific
# Egypt may be a tipping point. Yemen and Jordan also have smaller uprisings. Iran is smiling, the Saudis and Israelis are not. Pray4peace 14 minutes ago via Twitterrific
# Pray for peace. Egypt is run by a dictator, but Iran in 1979 started the same way. Legit outcry and then co-opted by religious radicals. 17 minutes ago via Twitterrific
glenn beck, ladies and gentlemen
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Why is Palin silent!??! What is she afraid of!?!??!!!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak speech was bizarre. i suspect (disagree w/ me pls) he spent the whole day holding out to see if the army would shut down the protest, hoping to make his public statement from a position of power, and when the army did nothing he was reduced to that weird tolerant-populist act. but yeah the government restructure is A) a total red herring and B) not the end of it; i don't really see how he can remain in power now.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
She has other things on her mind now
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
Argh. The ideological incoherence makes me angry. EITHER you can think that the Dems are totally oppressive dictator nanny state OR you can think that state control of telecommunications is A-OK. Not both.
Like... "Pray 4 Peace"? So...Tea Party protests by radical Christianists are completely viable but Egyptian protests are DANGEROUS because some of them might be Muslims who don't like America?
― Alex in Montreal, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Legit outcry and then co-opted by religious radicals.
lol irony
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarek should pull a judo move and join the protestors on the street in outrage over his rogue ministry. Perhaps their confusion will last long enough to allow him to flee before they hang him.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
# Our administration is pushing for an Internet kill switch for POTUS
what is this abt
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 January 2011 23:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
obama talking, trying sort of hopelessly to sell mubarak as sufficiently scolded.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah this is pretty artless
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak has a responsibility to provide concrete steps to something better
please don't kill anyone
egypt will always be a partner of the US
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
feel bad for the administration honestly, as their only possible position is "well we'll negotiate with whoever wins but heh we'd really kind of prefer that our guy of 30 years in this disastrous region stay in charge even though we know that sounds kinda shitty" and i mean i can't think of a less attractive position to have to sell.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
supporting dictators makes things real complicated
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 January 2011 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
"if i were an egyptian i'd like to think i'd be in the street, but i'm president of the us, sorry"
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
hahahahaha
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't suppose he could say much else really - can't really influence anything here, so try to be calm while things develop and make sure not to get blamed meantime.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
The US could help by surreptitiously airdropping in an internet connect.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
i've gotta have some aol cds lying around somewhere
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
Set up a really powerful wifi hub in the Negev
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 23:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
thought Obama gave Mubarak about as little support as he could get away with
the British foreign minister on Newsnight offered up the same kind of evasions that O's press secretary did earlier today; when he was asked if Britain stood with Mubarak he said something like "the real question is..." - such a classic judo move
I wouldn't be surprised if Mubarak's cabinet had already fled to Saudi Arabia resigned hours before his speech began
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 January 2011 00:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
sullivan (his support team perhaps less so) has way too much of a hard-on about twitter and such tho.
don't know the accuracy, but i am told that 8% of egyptians have web access
― mookieproof, Saturday, 29 January 2011 00:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
as I've said before it's pretty clear from all the state Dept maneuvering today that they don't give a shit about Mubarak and would be happy to see him replaced. they just want him replaced with someone they can deal with and it's not clear if that's going to happen/who that will be.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 29 January 2011 00:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
like, there have not been any statements about what a great friend and ally Hosni Mubarak has been to the US, there's no "THIS MAN IS OUR GUY" posturing in any of the WH/State Dept statements
an interesting angle that I don't think anyone has remarked upon - Mubarak's cabinet includes the Minister of Defense, who is supposed to be in charge of the army... soooo, Mubarak currently casting around for someone from the Army that he can promote who will basically crush the opposition...? and if he can't find one he's probably well and truly fucked
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 29 January 2011 00:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
The announcement was strategically made in the middle of the night in Egypt to give time for troops to take position.The military’s interaction with the demonstrators will need to be watched closely. So far, the military has been able to move into the cities and has been welcomed by the protesters without employing the more heavy-handed tactics of the internal security forces. What order they imposed came not from violence but from the perception that they would enable the demonstrators to bring down Mubarak.If the military is now physically backing the regime, confrontations between demonstrators (whose grievance is ultimately with Mubarak) and the military forces is likely to turn more violent in the hours ahead.
The military’s interaction with the demonstrators will need to be watched closely. So far, the military has been able to move into the cities and has been welcomed by the protesters without employing the more heavy-handed tactics of the internal security forces. What order they imposed came not from violence but from the perception that they would enable the demonstrators to bring down Mubarak.
If the military is now physically backing the regime, confrontations between demonstrators (whose grievance is ultimately with Mubarak) and the military forces is likely to turn more violent in the hours ahead.
sullivan's ppl just put up an excerpt of a dude arguing that "more than social media, this is al-jazeera's revolution"
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 29 January 2011 00:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
mumble fourth estate mumble mumble
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 January 2011 00:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Al Jazeera has really come out in a stellar light from all this. They really seem to be the best news organisation in the world right now, when did one press organisation do so much to bring down oppressive regimes in multiple countries? When I first started watching it I was amazed it was so liberal for an arab broadcasting company but I realised it's actually an incredibly fair network and is probably the least biased of any news organisation including the bbc.
Sullivan made the point that Al Jazeera was vilified by Bush and in retrospect that was hugely telling about everything.
― Popper, Saturday, 29 January 2011 01:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
― marios balls in 3d for 3ds (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 29 January 2011 01:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Egypt Flips Internet Kill Switch, Will The U.S.?"http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp
― dow, Saturday, 29 January 2011 01:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Pamela Geller cheers for mass arrests, worries that Obama will throw our 'ally' under the bus
― mookieproof, Saturday, 29 January 2011 01:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
regardless of how they feel about him, i feel like he's conciliatory enough compared to the rest of the arab league foreign-policy-wise that they'd rather keep him around than roll the dice on anyone else? or i may have misread my frantically swotted wiki articles.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 02:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
for whatever anyone thinks about people power and democracy and mubarak as a dictator, i would imagine that every international actor save iran would prefer the "stability" that he offers
― mookieproof, Saturday, 29 January 2011 02:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
this has just been insane to watch. less than a year ago i was in Tunisia and then Egypt - and now i'm watching on the news total pandemonium in spots i stood at 11 months ago. if you'd told me a year ago this was going to happen there - i wouldn't have believed you. this is just blowing my mind.
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 29 January 2011 03:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
I am staggered at that FB post image. How sheltered are some americans anyway bloody 'eck.
― Citizen SNPs (Trayce), Saturday, 29 January 2011 03:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
going by the image - i would put it more down to being young and stupid.
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 29 January 2011 03:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
^^^canadian friend
― mookieproof, Saturday, 29 January 2011 03:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Jordan's bustin' out too: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011128125157509196.html
― dow, Saturday, 29 January 2011 05:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
What I love about all these stories is all the "after prayers" or "they stopped for an hour for prayers on the highway" stuff. In awe that as a unit they'll fight, protest, but all down arms and pray when its required. Some kind of elegance in that, I dunno.
― Citizen SNPs (Trayce), Saturday, 29 January 2011 07:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
BS. At the worst it's no louder than Manhattan.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 29 January 2011 13:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
NY Times re Al Jazeera:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/world/middleeast/28jazeera.html
“The notion that there is a common struggle across the Arab world is something Al Jazeera helped create,” said Marc Lynch, a professor of Middle East Studies at George Washington University who has written extensively on the Arab news media. “They did not cause these events, but it’s almost impossible to imagine all this happening without Al Jazeera.”
Yet Al Jazeera’s opaque loyalties and motives are as closely scrutinized as its reporting. It is accused of tailoring its coverage to support Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza against their Lebanese and Palestinian rivals. Its reporter in Tunisia became a leading partisan in the uprising there. And critics speculate that the network bowed to the diplomatic interests of the Qatari emir, its patron, by initially playing down the protests in Egypt.
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 29 January 2011 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Have to admit that when I woke up this morning and turned on the news and heard the name of the newly appointed Vice President (Omar Suleiman), the first thing that came to mind was:
...even though he's Syrian.
YELLA!
― 23 24 (Z S), Saturday, 29 January 2011 15:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Looking at articles and comments on US and UK news sources, there seems to be a big difference in how Americans and Brits see the situation. Americans are all "yay, go democracy," and Brits seem to be saying "it's very dangerous to destabilize the closest thing to a democracy the M.E. has." Or am I misreading it?
― thirdalternative, Saturday, 29 January 2011 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Scratch that . . . the latter seems to be the the growing conservative response in both the US and the UK.
― thirdalternative, Saturday, 29 January 2011 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
I dunno, I hardly keep up with our media myself - I pick & choose off the internet - but when I have dived into it I've found the quality abysmal. Three examples:
*- the initial coverage about Tunisia and Egypt in turn was both weeks late and led heavily on the 'difficulties for returning holidaygoers' angle*- inappropriate experts: in a single bulletin yesterday there was an IT guy who, after having spoken about the Internet shutdown mechanism, was then invited to opine on how this was going to change the protests; followed by an Egypt expert who turned out to be a Phd student who tried to turn every question into a 'war crimes of Blair & Bush' diatribe*- Blair again: the BBC carried a story where Yv0nne R1dley condemns Blair for supporting Mubarak, without comment. Follow the link to the audio, and Blair's actually saying he's been advocating change for years, it must happen but the danger is if doesn't happen in a stable environment.
Personally, I find it so insular it's embarrassing. The human interest angle is fair enough as part of a whole, but to carry on the rest as if it's just an extension of the usual entertain-ourselves-by-talking-shit, when it may turn out to be a once-in-a-decade global event, is just hopeless. It just feels like nobody's particularly interested.
― Ismael Klata, Saturday, 29 January 2011 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
(Unconfirmed) reports have Mubarak's sons arriving in London and the military is openly fraternizing with protesters. Looks like he is done.
― Super Cub, Saturday, 29 January 2011 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
Anyway, to answer your question from my own point-of-view - I'm caught somewhere between the two I guess. I couldn't be happier about democracy outing ... but I'm terrified that's not what's going to happen. Rather dictatorships than theocracies. I'm optimistic and feel it's worth rolling the dice, but for me it's very much a leap of faith, I just don't know enough about these places locally.
Feeling is that the north Africans would be secular enough to pull it off, the other countries less sure. I do wonder whether Turkey ought to be more of a player - it seems to be the only viable model on offer here.
― Ismael Klata, Saturday, 29 January 2011 17:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
what about turkey differs from any other secular constitutional democracy?
― max, Saturday, 29 January 2011 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ever heard the term "Turkish prison?"
― thirdalternative, Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ever heard the term "Turkish delight?"
― ice cr?m, Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Turkish Army is a very strong presence in Turkish politics and has intervened several times when secularism has been threatened. AKP is Erdogan's second or third political parties, earlier incarnations havng been banned IIRC. The Army has been less active in politics in recent years mainly because Turkey has been trying to join the EU which it sees as a reinforcing secularism against Islamism
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
also it is the only secular democracy named after a sandwich
― caek, Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
but the "on a bloomer, with lettuce, tomato and salad cream" part of the full name is only ever seen on passports.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
also geographic proximity
― Ismael Klata, Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
not sure if Joe Biden, Asshole was posted:
http://warincontext.org/2011/01/27/biden-shows-his-contempt-for-the-people-of-egypt/
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
turkey's the piece of the ottoman empire that came out of world war i thinking OKAY WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE FUCKED AROUND WITH LIKE THE REST OF THE CARCASS AND WE'RE GONNA HOLD ON TO ISTANBUL and threw itself into an ultranationalist movement and an aggressive xenophobic language reform and now is this mix of admirable forward-thinking constitutional liberal principles and scary right-wing theocratic nationalist militarism. which means it succeeded: it's just like the ottoman empire.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp re: biden -- as with obama's waffling statement, have trouble really faulting people who regardless of how they feel about the situation are required to act as if the interests of u.s. foreign policy in noted regional clusterfuck the arab world are morally sound. honestly, sort of suspect biden was dispatched specifically to blurt out "mubarak is not a dictator" so that the idea could enter the discourse from a Known Loose Cannon and obama's totally non-scolding speech could look slightly more scolding by comparison. but yes, obv mubarak is a dictator.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
admirable forward-thinking constitutional liberal principles
this lot being the ones who think the army can stage coups whenever it likes and passed laws making it a crime to speak languages other than Turkish.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
believe i mentioned the scary right-wing theocratic nationalist militarism and the aggressive xenophobic language reform
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
"forward-thinking" economic principles might be more apt
― Gukbe, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
ok so when we say the turkish model we mean a model where the army intervenes whenever
― max, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
And the genocide of the Armenians comes to mind. Granted, that was 1915 or so.
I think when we say the Turkish model we mean "friendly to the west," i.e. they let us use their air space to go bomb Iraq.
― thirdalternative, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
but the country is Western in its financial principles xpost
― Gukbe, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/8288555/Authoritarian-governments-start-stockpiling-food-to-fight-public-anger.html
Authoritarian governments across the world are aggressively stockpiling food as a buffer against soaring food costs which they fear may stoke popular discontent.
By Ben Farmer in Islamabad 4:11PM GMT 28 Jan 2011
Commodities traders have warned they are seeing the first signs of panic buying from states concerned about the political implications of rising prices for staple crops.
However, the tactic risks simply further pushing up prices, analysts have warned, pushing a spiral of food inflation.
Governments in Asia, the Middle East and North Africa have recently made large food purchases on the open market in the wake of unrest in Tunisia which deposed president Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali.
Resentment at food shortages and high prices, as well as repression and corruption, drove the popular uprising which swept away his government.
Youths reportedly chanted "bring us sugar!" in the demonstrations which toppled his regime.
Nouriel Roubini, the New York University economics professor who predicted the financial crisis, this week told the World Economic Forum in Davos that high prices were "leading to riots, demonstrations and political instability." "It's really something that can topple regimes, as we have seen in the Middle East," he said.
Algeria purchased 800,000 tonnes of milling wheat on Wednesday and Saudi Arabia has said it will purchase enough wheat for a 12 month reserve.
Egypt, which has seen several days of unrest in part provoked by high food prices, is expected to follow.
Bangladesh has tripled its rice import target and Indonesia this week bought 820,000 tonnes of Thai rice.
Jim Gerlach, of commodity brokerage A/C Trading, said: "Sovereign nations are beginning to stockpile food to prevent unrest." "You artificially stimulate much higher demand when nations start to increase stockpiles."
"This is only the start of the panic buying," said Ker Chung Yang, commodities analyst at Singapore-based Phillip Futures. "I expect we'll have more countries coming in and buying grain."
Prices have not hit the peaks seen in 2008 when inflation caused a food price crisis, but economists have warned they still have the power to topple regimes
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
basically i am just impressed that turkey is not iran. i am impressed that they got through an ultranationalist and predominantly islamic revolution designed to minimize parasitic western influence and promote turkish self-sufficiency without actually collapsing into a theocratic disaster. and yeah, they're plenty cool with exterminating non-turks when the feeling strikes them, but their citizens could do worse. xp
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
soon, i hope to be even more impressed by egypt!
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
James Baldwin dug Istanbul quite a lot.
― thirdalternative, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
With Egypt, anything could happen now. The fundamentalists will definitely make a power grab, right? I hope the Egyptian people will resist them.
european and middle eastern history, c. 300-1918: a series of people digging istanbul quite a lot.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
i haven't read anything today but yesterday what everyone was saying was "it's bizarre how decentralized these protests seem". like there were plenty of muslim brotherhood dudes out there i'm sure, along with plenty of everyone else, but it really did seem like just several hundred thousand people simultaneously pissed off at a single guy for their own reasons. which is an impression you can artificially create (and that telegraph article posted upthread was intriguing/bizarre) but which might also be totally real, in which case the process of reestablishing order might be seriously epochal, change-wise, and which could go anywhere.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
6.36pm: The leader of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood has warned that unrest in Egypt will spread across the Middle East and that Arabs will topple leaders allied with the United States, AP reports.Hammam Saeed's comments were made at a protest outside the Egyptian embassy in Amman, inspired by massive rallies in neighbouring Egypt.About 100 members of the fundamentalist group and activists from other leftist organizations and trade unions chanted "Mubarak, step down" and "the decision is made, the people's revolt will remain."
Hammam Saeed's comments were made at a protest outside the Egyptian embassy in Amman, inspired by massive rallies in neighbouring Egypt.
About 100 members of the fundamentalist group and activists from other leftist organizations and trade unions chanted "Mubarak, step down" and "the decision is made, the people's revolt will remain."
― Gukbe, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah see that really does sound to me like the m.b. putting their name on the list--100 people!--and trying to sound like they're in control of something they're not. which isn't to say they couldn't get control of it.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
is my fear. I'm not aware of any other potential leaders out there. A fundamental problem with revolt-crushing dictatorships I guess
― Ismael Klata, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think the best-case scenario is a coalition govt w/ the brohood and elbaradei--the thing is its sorta unclear what kind of support elbaradei actually has beyond like... western journalists
― max, Saturday, 29 January 2011 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
He has some I think but I just don't know enough about who else is out there. Would not want the mb anywhere near power. It may be that an interim govt of technocrats until there is time for parties to coalesce, then elections, is the best-case outcome.
― Ismael Klata, Saturday, 29 January 2011 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sulieman is known for crushing Isalmic revolts, bloody-like, which some Westerners may find reassuring, at least initially. Meanwhile, dunno how much street cred ElBaradei has, although criticized by some demonstrators for not coming home and stepping up quickly enough, he's still got quite a rep as voice of sanity, which property will only get you so far of course. Here's his Wiki (yeah, but I checked a bunch of the links, they're legit) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei
― dow, Saturday, 29 January 2011 20:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sorry! it's actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei
― dow, Saturday, 29 January 2011 20:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
How does Aynam Nour fit into all this? Does he have widespread popular support?
― Super Cub, Saturday, 29 January 2011 20:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
― mookieproof, Saturday, 29 January 2011 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110129-red-alert-hamas-and-muslim-brotherhood
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 29 January 2011 20:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh god they're fucking with the antiquities. so anti-protester now.
― Gukbe, Saturday, 29 January 2011 20:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
The last I read, the army had moved into the Museum, after some vandalism, but apparently no theft beyond the gift shop (they're not protecting the neighborhoods though; they're encouraging vigilantes, who didin't need encouragement). It;s Ayman, not Aynam Nour. Some say he was hurt yesterday, but haven't verified. Meanwhile, from Euronews.net,a thumbnail & recent quotes:
Ayman Nour, Egyptian opposition emblem28/01/2011Ayman Nour is the leading opposition politician of the government of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. A lawyer, Nour is an emblematic figure in Egypt. His wife Gamela Ismail is also involved in the protests.
At the head of the liberal El-Ghad party (‘Tomorrow’), which he founded in 2004, he was Hosni Mubarak’s main opponent in the 2005 presidential elections. He only won eight percent of the vote but gained second place after the huge majority claimed by Mubarak. Nour contested the results, but above all castigated the regime for being unable to tackle unemployment.
Amongst the crowds demonstrating in Cairo this week, Nour told the authorities: “Our message today consists of one word, “leave”. We are telling President Moubarak to leave. We do not want you. We cannot stand you or your regime. The Egyptian people no longer want this system. You have closed all doors to peaceful change.”
For this opposition leader the regime is finished. Before the communication black-out with Egypt, Ayman Nour told euronews how he saw the end of this crisis: “With all the political parties from all sides we will form popular assemblies as an alternative to parliament to fight against the fraud of the last parliamentary, senatorial and presidential elections.”
In 2005 Nour was sentenced to five years in prison on charges of forging documents used in applying for legal status for his El-Ghad party. He was released on medical grounds – diabetes – in February 2009, but remains ineligible for elections which it had been forecast would take place in September this year.
― dow, Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
― max, Saturday, January 29, 2011 2:45 PM Bookmark
In this conflict I really feel a sense of being doomed to either get new filtered through the liberal western media lens ("yay, peaceful democratic protest that will probably bring in a moderate, freedom-loving leader!") or the conservative western media lens ("uh oh instability this makes me really nervous guys better to have the monster we know"). Agenda-based spin is sort of inevitable, to the point that the journalists themselves may not realize what they are superimposing on the conflict. I mean I guess this has always been true of US coverage of foreign conflicts, but maybe I'm more aware of it in our internet age?
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
sorry that should be "get NEWS filtered"
― cozen, Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
;_;
― Gukbe, Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
pictures of some of the vandalism of the egyptian museum by looters:
http://hyperallergic.com/17815/egyptian-museum-damage/
:(((
― prolego, Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
next thing you know they'll be tearing down those pyramids.
― Ludo, Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Egyptian Protests: Phase II
― Gukbe, Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
that museum vandalism is a real piss off!
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 29 January 2011 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Re questions about how spontaneous the current demos are, I've seen a few mentions of Wiki-leaked cables from 2009 (I think), saying that Mubarak intended that his son Gamal (spelling?) as successor, but the army wasn't pleased. Today: reports of demonstrators riding around on tanks decorated with pro-demo graffiti, etc. But: army(replacing cops, in a laidback way) not stopping looters, while new prime minister is retired general and vice pres. is the aforementioned hardass security director/general Sulieman
― dow, Saturday, 29 January 2011 22:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
This video's getting a lot of traffic. Questionable soundtrack, very propagandist vibe, but some amazing footage to be seen.
― thirdalternative, Saturday, 29 January 2011 22:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
In this conflict I really feel a sense of being doomed to either get new filtered through the liberal western media lens ("yay, peaceful democratic protest that will probably bring in a moderate, freedom-loving leader!") or the conservative western media lens ("uh oh instability this makes me really nervous guys better to have the monster we know")
i think the above is just in your head. this is a broad-based (middle-class, working class, students, practicing muslims), non-extremist uprising against a repressive govt in the most populous state in the middle east - something to be excited about imo. for years everyone's assumed the only alternatives were between tyranny and religious extremism. as one of the guests on last night's newsnight said, "if tunisia, a tiny state, could inspire this in egypt, the biggest state in the middle east, imagine what THIS could inspire"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 January 2011 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
btw the protests haven't been exactly peaceful
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 January 2011 22:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://i53.tinypic.com/epq7g2.jpg
― cozen, Saturday, January 29, 2011 4:17 PM (1 hour ago)
is this for real
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Saturday, 29 January 2011 22:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
A mob is still a mob.
― thirdalternative, Saturday, 29 January 2011 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh man al-j anchorlady has got the DSL beaucoup
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 January 2011 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
blogger being interviewd on al-j says tunisia was inspired by labor uprisings in egypt over the past year - i would like to read a bit about that. anyone?
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 January 2011 23:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
capitalist pigdogs are leaving in droves by private plane
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 29 January 2011 23:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hurting i share your frustration at relying on TV for this though - it feels so thin and inadequate
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 30 January 2011 00:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Cunga, Sunday, 30 January 2011 03:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
attack strategy based on the hopeful premise that the policeman will have his face-shield up.
― Gukbe, Sunday, 30 January 2011 03:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, it's not recent though.
― polyphonic, Sunday, 30 January 2011 03:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol@me reposting the fifth post in this topic
― Cunga, Sunday, 30 January 2011 03:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
capitalist pigdogs are leaving in droves by private plane― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:21 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:21 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
i love this post so many diff ways
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 30 January 2011 03:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
up against the wall the lot of you!
lol no c u *boards g5*
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 30 January 2011 03:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
pig see u
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 30 January 2011 03:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh Im in love With Egypt.
― velko, Sunday, 30 January 2011 04:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Banks and markets apparently to stay closed Sun,, first day of working week, But if Mubarak wants everything to go back to normal, how can banks, markets and much else do that without the internet? Maybe it'll be back on selectively?
― dow, Sunday, 30 January 2011 08:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
evanchill State TV announces Al Jazeera's broadcasting license and press cards are being revoked. Our bureau is packing up. #jan25
― cozen, Sunday, 30 January 2011 09:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
But if Mubarak wants everything to go back to normal, how can banks, markets and much else do that without the internet?
Things are obviously a far way from normal, and the internet is the least of it. It sounds like law and order is fundamentally breaking down. The state is ceasing to function beyond the military. My guess is that Mubarak will be gone within 72 hours.
― Super Cub, Sunday, 30 January 2011 09:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Protests continue across Egypt this morning after five days of civil unrest, clashes with police and looting. But rumours are circulating that President Hosni Mubarak has left the capital to practise his stroke in the safety of a luxury golf resort. Locals in Sharm-el-Sheikh told reporters they are convinced the autocratic ruler is holed up in his winter residence inside the sprawling complex of the Maritim Jolie Ville Golf Hotel. Mubarak's official plane is said to have been spotted at Sharm's airport. Unconfirmed reports have also emerged that Egypt's ruling elite are fleeing the country altogether. An unnamed "official" at Cairo airport is reported to have said 19 private jets have left so far, taking the country's plutocracy to the safety of Dubai and other friendly nations. Among the exodus are said to have been Naguib Sawiris, executive chairman of Orascom Telecom, and Hussein Salem – a close friend of Mubarak's who owns the Maritim Jolie Ville Golf Hotel.
Locals in Sharm-el-Sheikh told reporters they are convinced the autocratic ruler is holed up in his winter residence inside the sprawling complex of the Maritim Jolie Ville Golf Hotel. Mubarak's official plane is said to have been spotted at Sharm's airport.
Unconfirmed reports have also emerged that Egypt's ruling elite are fleeing the country altogether. An unnamed "official" at Cairo airport is reported to have said 19 private jets have left so far, taking the country's plutocracy to the safety of Dubai and other friendly nations.
Among the exodus are said to have been Naguib Sawiris, executive chairman of Orascom Telecom, and Hussein Salem – a close friend of Mubarak's who owns the Maritim Jolie Ville Golf Hotel.
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 30 January 2011 10:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
eh 3/5
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 30 January 2011 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
el-baradei in tahrir square, says "the mubarak regime must stand down"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 30 January 2011 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
I thought he was under house arrest? I thought you'd be glued to the football?
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 30 January 2011 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
ElBaradei with the protesters.
― An Artily Shot Sesame Street (Eazy), Sunday, 30 January 2011 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
the thing about elbaradei is that this protest movement wasn't sparked by him, and it never called for his arrival. this movement is genuinely anarchic (so far) in that it seems people don't want a "figure" to step in and assume the reins. it doesn't really know what it wants other than mubarak to step down. but it's not baying for s savior.
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 30 January 2011 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's also a little disappointing - though understandable realpolitik - that elbaradei has already enlisted the support of the muslim brotherhood. one of the exciting things about all this so far is its secularism and youthfulness
and elbaradei = old
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 30 January 2011 21:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think you can still have a youth movement with an older person at the top; an establishment type who understands the wants and needs of the youth. I'm still trying to understand how Ayman Nour fits into all of this. He was the main opposition leader prior to the protests, right? Where is he?
― Super Cub, Sunday, 30 January 2011 22:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also, Hillary Clinton used the phrase "orderly transition" today. Possibly an indication of Washington's waning support for Mubarak.
― Super Cub, Sunday, 30 January 2011 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
it seems people don't want a "figure" to step in and assume the reins
but you gotta have one, right? reins have to be assumed. i thought the idea was, best case scenario, elbaradei leads interim govt until free and fair elections are held.
― hoisin crispy mubaduck (ledge), Sunday, 30 January 2011 22:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm gathering that Ayman Nour supports ElBaradei as interim leader:
AJ quoted Nour saying, "We have formed an opposition committee for change that involves 10 members, represented by El Baradei."
― Super Cub, Sunday, 30 January 2011 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
so i guess the protesters have fallen in behind elbaradei and the army, so far, behind mubarak. the generals were the guys he really had to appease i guess.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
lotta paranoiac types suggesting the media/internet blackout + mooby out of the city + tanks guarding the square = there is abt to be a massacre
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 31 January 2011 05:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
^^^ not endorsing this theory btw
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 31 January 2011 05:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah that seems incredibly unlikely given that the only card mubarak even owns is the "i am pretty reasonable as far as it goes" card, and closing the al jazeera office doesn't mean the world's stopped watching.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
the world was watching tiananmen square too!
― max, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean... werent they?
sure but the chinese communist party wasn't clinging to power by its fingernails hoping it could make something out of its decent relationship with the u.s. state department.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
like, i guess mubarak could decide that he has the army in his pocket and can institute a military dictatorship and fuck the world, but he's gotten pretty used to good international standing not to mention u.s. money over the years, and the revolt has now progressed so far that i think the time to crush them and say it was for the good of the country and come out of it looking like he cares even remotely about anything except the preservation of his personal power is long gone.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
I am also skeptical. China in 1989 was a far more insular society than Egypt (or China today). The Chinese leadership didn't give a shit about the international reaction, or cared little compared to internal stability. Given that, the CCP still needed to truck in troops from the hinterlands to propagate a massacre. Would the Egyptian military even carry out that order?
― Super Cub, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
― am0n, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak could easily reach a point where he feels like massacring or stepping down are his only options
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Would the Egyptian military even carry out that order?
oh yeah this too--the guy just got a skeptical and oats-feeling army back on his side and saying OKAY COOL NOW KILL EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T LIKE ME probably isn't the best way to start them off.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
The optimist in me hopes that Mubarak is buying time while he secures his post-power situation and helps ensure a new order is in place for the benefit of his country. My hope is that he'll step down in the next couple of days and a reasonable transitional government will step in immediately followed by free elections in 90 days.
― Super Cub, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
and everyone gets a car!
― max, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
Let a man have hope!
― Super Cub, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh and I didn't mean to imply that the CCP's decision to use force in 1989 was unanimous and easily reached. Far from it.
― Super Cub, Monday, 31 January 2011 05:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
The only way Mubarak can stay in power now is with the help of the military, not necessarily using violence but certainly resulting in a military dictatorship, which would mean bye bye US $$$.
Mubarak is buying time while he secures his post-power situation and helps ensure a new order is in place for the benefit of his country.
^^^ First half OTM, second half, he doesn't give a shit about the stability of Egypt.
― Les centimètres énigmatiques (snoball), Monday, 31 January 2011 08:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think he gives a shit about "stability", but it's a word that has been interpreted broadly
i don't think he is preparing for a massacre for the reason DLH gives; mostly likely he is trying to work towards some settlement in which he or his people keep hold of some important levers of power
― history mayne, Monday, 31 January 2011 08:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
This quote from the NYT, in its own way, get to the heart if the problem
When we suggested to an Egyptian friend affected by teargas that he buy onions and use it to diminish the affect of the gas, as we do in Israel and the Occupied Territories, he laughed. He then explained his salary is about 300 Egyptian pounds, and one kilo of onions is three pounds.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 31 January 2011 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak trying to start a class war?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/world/africa/31classwar.html?hp
Ayman Adbel Al, 43, a civil engineer inspecting the damage with his two teenage sons, blamed Mr. Mubarak, arguing that he had allowed the growing class divisions in Egyptian society to build up for years until they exploded last week. “I can say that I am well off, but I hate it, too. It is not humanitarian,” he said, showing a picture of himself with his family at the protests Saturday. The only people who wanted Mr. Mubarak to stay in power, he argued, were rich people “afraid for their money.”
― curmudgeon, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Shut uuuuuuup, Joe Biden.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 31 January 2011 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
even Egypt is complaining about inequality? Income Inequality, Egypt vs US
― Gukbe, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
American press is always so preoccupied with looting, it's really pathetic. no time for context or in-depth analysis OMG PRIVATE PROPERTY BEING THREATENED!
(^^^ bitterness about the retarded level of coverage from CNN this weekend)
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 31 January 2011 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
otm
― sleeve, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
"a discussion as to what the legitimate claims being made are, if they are,"
Assuming he's not just a ventriloquist dummy here, this is why I bailed on the Good Ship Hope when this fucker got picked for veep.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 31 January 2011 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
ugh can't somebody muzzle biden right now
speaking of looting:
― max, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
idk looting's not really been the exclusive preoccupation of the media has it?
also it's public property, the shit people are upset about
― history mayne, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm primarily bitching about the TV coverage I caught intermittently over the last couple days from CNN and Fox
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 31 January 2011 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
its sort of touching, even if mubarak does step down and free elections are held etc inevitably old habits/power structures reassert themselves and progress is incremental at best, in some ways this protest is as good as it gets
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
The blog world hasn't yet conceived of a way to cover inchoate, volatile events like this without looking like jackasses. CNN and FOX News just want continuous shots of brown-skinned sandaled sand people walking off with mummies and DVD players.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 31 January 2011 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
clearly not following the old journalistic axiom:
man looting a mummy and dvd player, not news mummy looting a dvd player, news!
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 31 January 2011 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is why this article was so obnoxious.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'd be pretty pissed if some plebe stole my mummy and DVD player.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 31 January 2011 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
What are you saying the blog world should be doing (or is there no possible way to suggest context is needed without coming across in a way that you think looks bad)?
I think Biden has been quiet since those stupid comments last week that keep getting linked to and discussed! 3 days is good for him.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
my guess is the administration is either not really unified in opinion on what should happen here, more (more likely) is saying a range of things at once in order to see what sticks, and to look like they were 'ready for' whatever happens next since nobody really knows.
― goole, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
also joe biden just says stuff, which is what everyone claims to want from politicians, in practice tho
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
well he's right about it not being like eastern europe
― goole, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
no--much hotter in egypt for example
― max, Monday, 31 January 2011 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
better to be preoccupied with looting than
This is how the main stories from Britain's best-selling dailies begin. Keen-eyed media studies graduates may detect a pattern:The Daily Mail (average daily circulation last month 2,030,968): "British tourists..."The Sun (average circulation 2,717,013): "Thirty thousand Brits..."The Daily Mirror (average circulation 1,133,440): "Britons were urged to flee..."The Daily Express (average circulation 623,689): "Up to 30,000 Britons..."It is not just the opening lines. The Daily Mail's 28 paragraph story devotes 18 paragraphs to the "terrifying ordeal" endured by British tourists (not one of whom has been harmed to date), including the "mayhem" some had witnessed at Cairo airport, and an interview with a man whose flight was delayed for seven hours.
The Daily Mail (average daily circulation last month 2,030,968): "British tourists..."
The Sun (average circulation 2,717,013): "Thirty thousand Brits..."
The Daily Mirror (average circulation 1,133,440): "Britons were urged to flee..."
The Daily Express (average circulation 623,689): "Up to 30,000 Britons..."
It is not just the opening lines. The Daily Mail's 28 paragraph story devotes 18 paragraphs to the "terrifying ordeal" endured by British tourists (not one of whom has been harmed to date), including the "mayhem" some had witnessed at Cairo airport, and an interview with a man whose flight was delayed for seven hours.
― caek, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
what sort of crazy person would leave the country under those circumstances, youre witnessing history people!
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
official announcement from the Army that they will not fire on protestors
...?
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 31 January 2011 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
the worst thing in the daily mail was a column by christopher hitchens' mirror-universe brother peter clicking his tongue at clueless western liberals "supporting" the protests and saying that the best advice for dealing with "nasty arab regimes" was to be found in hilaire belloc's line about "always keep ahold of nurse for fear of finding something worse"
that was pretty bad
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
that seems to be the meme emerging on the gutter right -- obama is giving egypt away to the muslim brotherhood to destroy israel, or something
wait til they get around to canal-closure speculation
― goole, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
is this must-get-home-at-all costs mentality solely a British thing? An acquaintance once spent just shy of two grand flying home early from holiday in Jamaica because there was a hurricane coming.
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp -- yeah the line they've been using is YOU GUYS WERE EXCITED ABOUT THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION TOO which a) probably isn't really true and b) assumes there are no important differences to be considered between various upset masses of brown people
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0111/Egypt_experts_head_to_WH_powwow.html
not a great bunch of people on first glace
― goole, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
The White House and their efforts to be bipartisan--they saw Abrams piece in the Sunday W. Post...
The Brit newspapers have their approach and some former Bush administration neo-con hacks (E. Abrams and M. Thiessen in the W. Post) keep repeating their own party line re how W should get credit, while others just want to blame Obama for any problems created by a lack of "stability"
― curmudgeon, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
It was a good, serious meeting, an attendee said afterwards.
good to know it didn't degenerate into the ribald japery that so frequently characterizes these white house "meetings"
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 19:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
got Egypt competing hard with Fernando Torres & Andy Carroll on my Sky 'breaking news' ticker atm
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 31 January 2011 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Someone on Andrew Breithard's blog posited as much.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 31 January 2011 20:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Heavy Fog in channel; Continent cut off" is not a new sentiment in our papers.
― stet, Monday, 31 January 2011 20:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egypt crisis: Beleaguered Mubarak reshuffles cabinet
The army said in a statement carried on Egyptian media: "To the great people of Egypt, your armed forces, acknowledging the legitimate rights of the people... have not and will not use force against the Egyptian people."
Basically this leaves Mubarak to try every single cabinet option until he finally realises that he has to leave.
― Les centimètres énigmatiques (snoball), Monday, 31 January 2011 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
g/o, exits mubarak
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
^not breaking new btw, just commenting on the armys statement
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
not sure if you're being serious. i was there this time last year and part of me thinks it would be awesome to have witnessed this shit firsthand - and i know there's another part of me that would want out asahp! i mean - if anything did happen to you there, as a tourist, you'd feel pretty dumb for having intentionally stayed behind. and i can only image the hell my parents would be going through knowing i was there and had no way of easily getting in touch with me.
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 31 January 2011 22:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
footage on the bbc just now of vigilantes patrolling street corners brandishing cricket bats - where'd'you get hold of a cricket bat in Cairo?!
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
is cricket not popular there
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egypt not really known for it in my experience
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
British colonial legacy is pretty nuts
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 31 January 2011 22:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
I was there during the caricatures protests and even saw a march in Tahrir Square - I'm not sure I'd want to be there right now.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Monday, 31 January 2011 22:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
you guys are all total wimps and afraid of momentouness, id totally be out there fist pumping away man, dodging tear gas canisters from my hotel balcony
― ice cr?m, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Soccer clubs central to ending Egypt's 'Dictatorship of Fear'
guess this is why they canceled the game with usa usa usa
― dan m, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm just jealous of the reporters. i wanna be sprinting through the streets in a hawaiian shirt and a flak jacket. xp
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
The last ISP still running (Noor) has gone offline, so Egypt basically has no internet any more, unless people can dial international numbers w/modems. (I think a French ISP offered free access to anyone calling from Egypt).
― stet, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egypt basically has no internet any more
Doesn't that mean the economy is fucked? I thought they said the stock exchange needed something on the day or everything would seize up.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 31 January 2011 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
'British colonial legacy is pretty nuts' - a person living in north america, writing in english
― history mayne, Monday, 31 January 2011 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
on his cricket bat
― max, Monday, 31 January 2011 23:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
jolly good
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 31 January 2011 23:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Media Matters notes a hilarious study in contrasting headlines at FOX Nation:
― Mr. Fart Pop Bass (Phil D.), Monday, 31 January 2011 23:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
ElBaradei's sudden emergence as a national consensus figure has caught many international observers by surprise. It has also prompted American policy makers to go silent, fearing that any public U.S. support for ElBaradei or any other potential Egyptian leader could undermine prospects for unifying the country.
"They are really, really trying hard not to personalize and not to focus on individuals," said Marc Lynch, an associate professor at George Washington University and Foreign Policy blogger who was briefed today by White House officials on the administration's Egypt policy. "They are bending over backwards not to be seen as appointing the next president of Egypt." But ElBaradei, he notes, is "extremely well placed to reassure all constituencies which need reassuring that he is not likely to stick around for ever and be the next Mubarak."
http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/31/el_baradeis_personal_revolution_from_multilateral_bureaucrat_to_populist_patriot
― max, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 00:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
So, Jordan's King Abdullah has just sacked his entire govt in wake of protests. What next?
― I've been dancing since 9 and I'm tired and hungry (Dorianlynskey), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 13:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Why his name ElBaradei and not Elbaradei or El Baradei or El-Baradel or el Baradei or el-Baradei?
― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 13:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
L. Baradei
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
Larry Baradei - he's just trying to build some gravitas
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 13:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Just heard a really moving dispatch on NPR (BBC I think)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Just read a Richard Cohen piece in the W. Post that I am guessing is wrong and uninformed. Something about a Muslim Brotherhood member who was hanged in 1966 and was anti-semitic, plus middle east chaos.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/31/AR2011013104014.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Things are about to go from bad to worse in the Middle East. An Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement is nowhere in sight. Lebanon just became a Hezbollah state, which is to say that Iran has become an even more important regional power, and Egypt, once stable if tenuously so, has been pitched into chaos. This is the most dire prospect of them all. The dream of a democratic Egypt is sure to produce a nightmare.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Looks like after several days of not showing or naming their reporters in Egypt in the wake of being banned by Mubarak and having some of its reporters arrested, AJE is putting its reporters there back on camera.
― smanging pumpkins (The Reverend), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Unconfirmed rumours that Mubarak has gone according to Channel 4's foreign affairs correspondent on Twitter.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
@jrug Rumour is that Mubarak has gone. Can not confirm. Celebrations in streets #c4news #jan25 #feb01 #egypt
Probably bullshit, but...
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Facebook is banned in Syria, which makes organising more difficult"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
nothing on Al-J about it Matt..
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
'has gone' is sort of a vague turn of phrase
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
Al-J interviewed a state dept spokesman on Thursday. Hey, TV media: here's how to do an interview:
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2011/01/201112713644706462.html
interviewer: "There have been reports of police firing rubber-coated steel bullets at protestors, perhaps that's more important than Twitter being up"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
The rumor I'd heard was that he was at his winter residence at Sharm-el-Sheikh.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8290760/Locals-in-Sharm-el-Sheikh-convinced-Mubarak-is-holed-up-there.html
― smanging pumpkins (The Reverend), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
protests getting much bigger, hundreds of thousands out there now, thats the final piece
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
ban richard cohen
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Washington Post should have done that a long time ago
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
eh times says hundreds of thousands al jazeera says two million - crowds are hard to count
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Police all over the world are esp. bad at counting, ime
― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha:
Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney urged the Obama administration to press for the resignation of Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak on Tuesday, and said it was time for Mubarak to listen to Egyptian protesters and "step out of the way."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20030197-503544.html
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
no solidarity between the shockingly young-looking, i guess.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
its starting to look a lot like the end of the Hodgson regime
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
crowds are hard to count
not according to professional crowd counters.
― hoisin crispy mubaduck (ledge), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
sign in the crowd
YES WE CAN TOO
aww
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh we're gonna see that one again believe me
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol al jazeera just interviewed an official from mubaraks party and he was all i told him many times just this year he had to listen to the people and be nicer and change things alalalala sure buddy
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
god richard cohen is the WORST
― max, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
so hitler > richard cohen, is that what ur saying
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
AJ reporting that security for the tahrir square demonstration being provided by an army/civilian collaboration to prevent secret police from entering.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
max it's just a little pro-dictator rhetoric in america's most influential political newspaper, let's be cool.
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
i've resisted putting up all the crazy right wing crap i've been seeing, but tracer that's the weak end of it believe me
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
again from that Al-J interview with the state dept:
interviewer: "democracy would be destabilizing to the region, wouldn't it?"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
Batshit Rightwing Cartoons 2011
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 15:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh god
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
can you summarise beck's wacky geography lesson? I don't want to watch it.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
i don't know he's talking about the goddamn WEATHERMEN at the moment
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
he looks like a weatherman in that frame
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
goole i do not expect to profit from viewing the video behind that link
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol. "i've run out of riots"
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
the thesis, no really, is that all of these countries with bad things happening in them, riots and unrest: spain, tunisia, greece, lebanon, egypt -- are connected by the mediterranean. it's all connected!
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
At what point can I cease even bothering to refute Beck? It really should be beneath my dignity.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
fyi that's the first 10min stretch of beck i've ever been able to stand. weird.
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
The truth doesn't have an agenda, guys.
― hoisin crispy mubaduck (ledge), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
he also says that the riots are "exactly like" iran 1979 but nobody else is brave enough to say so? except that every lazy imperialist has been saying that constantly for the past week. also no they aren't.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
anyway the idea that somebody needs to crush this thing because it's all gonna go to hell if the a-rabs rise up is basically the idea the right wing is batting around.
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
THE COMING INSURRECTION
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
he basically thinks the entire mediterranean is on fire. literally.
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
the entire mediterranean... is on fire.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp heh
oh and tunisia = archduke ferdinand
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
something about a big snowball
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
also he suggests that successful revolutions in the arab world will encourage a muslim invasion of europe. because they want it, guys--they've wanted it ever since the reconquista! look at their beady little eyes.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp demonstration effects
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
found this very moving
like, the opening pages of Homage to Catalonia-style inspiring
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
the entire mediterranean including s europe is gonna become a muslim caliphate then the overwhelming numbers of 'radicalized muslimites' are gonna join in russia gonna push in this way see chinas gonna push in this way its all coordinated its just like iran its just like the 1st world war saudis gonna push in this way if theyre still around cause they are scared to death israel shia sunni etc etc
i watched the whole thing!
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://biggovernment.com/taylorking/2011/01/29/did-muslim-brotherhood-learn-day-of-rage-egypt-protest-tactics-from-obama-allies-bill-ayers-and-code-pink/
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
that fact that there are people who cant identify beck as a classic bullshitter on sight is p chilling, its a giant snowball
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
I find this not only condescending but idiotic. Conceivably they have it exactly backwards; if you don't allow the Arabs hope in freedom and democracy, you can be certain that their present authoritarian regimes will one day fall to vitriolic movements bent on punishing the West and I have seen no indication so far that the Egyptians are not remarkably politically mature in their revolt, self-policing, inclusive, decent, patriotic.
The right-wing narrative, once again, is being driven by the desire to emulate Churchill in the wilderness years and have the bravery to be against Nazi re-armament, only this time 'islamofascism' is the existential threat to freedom except for when freedom is a threat to freedom, of course. They're complete loons.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
putting aside legitimate concerns (how can they transition power without falling into anarchy, what will democracy look like -- ie logistical questions) i cannot see how any intelligent ethical person could not be moved and inspired by what is going on in egypt. also, my impression about the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in egypt atm is that they are kinda like fringy right-wingers in America. Some are interested in legitimate participation in government, some are radicals. But we have lunatic radicals in the West too and they haven't staged a takeover of our governance. this is nothing like gaza where almost all politics started in a radical position and so the choice between fatah + hamas could resolve in an undemocratic way (not to mention Israel basically just withdrawing and things being slapped together in haste). in egypt there is a lot of moderate thoughtful representation and these are a nation of people clearly crying out for representation. it's incredibly moving imho.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Shakey, it's really disconcerting when the crazy A-rabs behave with more circumspectionn and composure than your average tea-party obamacare opponent.
Ha ha, goole, like there have never been riots or uprisings in Egypt. The ahistoric and ad hominem stretch that these guys will go to is risible.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
well it's always about them isn't it...
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha yeah michael i think glenn beck just assumes all mobs are like the one he whips up, i.e. paranoid and cultish
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think the fountainhead of the right-wing attitude towards stuff like this is that "freedom" is something america invented and will be happy to export, but it's far too dangerous for anyone else to attempt to manufacture, especially arabs.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
if they really want to be patriarchal they could just say, "they learned about it from watching us" and feel all good about themselves.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
I wonder what they think of Eisenhauer screwing the Israelis/French/British over Suez?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Eisenhauer?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dwayne "Dude" Eisenhauer, TKE frat house, 1962
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Bloody Germans
― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ha ha! I don't know why that's the way it's spelled in my head. How odd.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
just sat through that entire beck clip and my head is spinning with the amount of invented connections
did u guys miss btw that this is actually all bill ayers fault
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
ayers is in bed w/turkey everyone knows that
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
gross
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Jordan quaking in its boots too, apparently. wonder what the Saudis think... I mean, they don't have the uber-poor population that Egypt does but still.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Saudi Arabia seems like a whole different kettle of fish. Was watching Asia Cup finals and saw Qatar royalty sitting in their thrones at the stadium, and it was gross.
― Super Cub, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
the amount of bad facts and poorly formed logical connections in that cohen article is breathtaking
― symsymsym, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
reading thru the corner reminds me that the american right has hated el baradei from way back:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/258519/el-baradei-and-al-qaqaa-affair-cliff-may
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah elbaradei is a "stooge of iran" fyi
― max, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
also has anyone seen elbaradei and bill ayers in the same place at the same time??? not saying just sayin....
*slaps glenn beck's fire icon to thread*
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
ilx is on fire, twitter is on fire, the internet is on fire
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
we learned to troll from code pink
― max, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
sounds like mubarak might announce he wont seek re-election
― max, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
and for my next failed gambit at maintaining power
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
nowhere else to go after that, except to live in Saudi
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
#1859: Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq appears on Egyptian television without a shirt and tie - an unprecedented event. He says he is worried, but is confident that he can make the country stable again.
huh?
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
and 'obama urges mubarak not to run again'
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
honestly that doesn't really seem like such a bad option - interim gov't can get set up in the intervening months, parties can form, etc. and then free elections in the fall. of course whether the protesters are willing to wait that long is another question
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
I guess at this point I should just say whether the COUNTRY is willing to wait that long lol
yeah it seems like its pretty obvs the protestors have the upper hand at this point so why not just play it out
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak stepping down in sept can still mess w/things/the election til then
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
as he has been known to
does anyone else find it odd that Bin Laden/Zwahiri et al have apparently been totally silent through all this?
^^^yes definitely. potential grounds for rejection of that option there. no doubt he would try to reassert authority via proxy or something
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
dude should probably cut his losses and flee the country before he gets put on trial tbh
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
probably for the same reason everyone else (Muslim Brotherhood, Israel, other groups) is silent. they're waiting to see how it plays out before they decide how they feel about it
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
cut a deal for immunity and gtfo seems like his best bet at this point xp
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
like, it looks to me like egypt might become a liberal democracy. it might look that way to bin laden too, which would suck for the mission obv. but he can't exactly condemn a popular anti-fascist uprising or he'll look really bad. idk.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
outside forces dont want to be seen as influencing the process as egyptians are seeming p fed up w/outside forces influencing their processes at this point
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
also, it's pretty clear that whatever the population wants right now, they don't want a theocracy and they don't want violence. There's not much AQ can gain by trying to insert a role for themselves here
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
I bet Zawahiri is paying very close attention.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
it might draw attention to the fact that this is an utter, crushing defeat and humiliation for them
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Typically in this sort of long-term dictatorship, once the central figure is broken there are too many, and too scattered, centers of potential power to make any predictions about how it rearranges itself. I expect the military is going to be the decisive factor, which would also be pretty typical. If they want elections, that seems like it would be a promising development. I expect the Muslim Brotherhood would be outlawed as a political party, in any event.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Al Qaeda isn't going to give anybody jobs in Egypt and that's what they really want. They may successfully become a more liberal democracy, but their economic straits are going to be much harder to turn around. They seem intent on getting the elite's hand out of the cookie jar and rolling back the oppressive authority of the security services that have been messing with them since the emergency law was put into effect, a law that allowed the c ops to mess with people in many and mostly corrupt ways. I doubt many are in the mood for religious police or anybody to fcuk with ordinary ppl right now and the essential dignity of common Egyptians has been amazing.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's my impression from news stories that the Muslim Brotherhood is much more interested in limiting any extremism/violence and becoming a part of the new government (obv I'm assuming there will be some kind of parliamentary solution).
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
I expect the Muslim Brotherhood would be outlawed as a political party, in any event.
I don't think this is likely - the role they've played so far points to genuine political ambitions
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i read a bunch abt them a while ago, the specifics escape me, but the overall impression was of a not that extreme anymore nationalist wide ranging political org
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
don't know if this has been posted yet but live feed from al jazeera in egypt here: http://www.youtube.com/user/AlJazeeraEnglish
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
M: Hey Omar…you know that there many tweets coming in saying he is going to shut down everything tonight…whatever little internet was left and mobiles and landlines even? O: Fuck the internet! I have not seen it since Thursday and I am not missing it. I don’t need it. No one in Tahrir Square needs it. No one in Suez needs it or in Alex…Go tell Mubarak that the peoples revolution does not his damn internet! M: Ha ha! You just gave me a possible title for the piece my friend… O: Tayyib good. But honestly I mean 40 % of this country is living below the poverty line and a large chunk above that is barely surviving and then you have middle class doctors and lawyers etc and then you have you know rich people like me yaani…I mean it is true that cell phone penetration has improved very much…you know they even say that maybe 60 million have cellphones…you know…but its like those basic yaani really basic mobiles…nothing fancy…no internet bullshit for example…I can tell you that the majority of Egyptians have no idea what Facebook is or what Twitter is! I mean you ask me this everyday—but its true yaani…and look at this… a very basic mobile is from 180 Egyptian pounds…a fancy internet capable phone like an Iphone and that Droid thing or the blackberry cost around 3000 pounds…and I will just talk about the so called middle class for a second…before revolution they said they would increase the minimum wage to 1200 pounds a month…right now it is about 800 pounds…800 pounds to feed a family of 4 maybe more? And then you go and buy an internet enabled phone which costs more than 3 months of your salary?. Me: So how and why is this whole narrative evolving? O: You mean all this internet stuff…well before he shut us out on Thursday…there was vibrant communication between a certain and very small class of society in terms of relative numbers…this is the class of people who have ALWAYS been absent and apathetic from the suffering of the Egyptian majority…the poor people…you know that was good…so maybe a little bit through twitter and all the apathetic students and professional class started communicating for the first time…
O: Fuck the internet! I have not seen it since Thursday and I am not missing it. I don’t need it. No one in Tahrir Square needs it. No one in Suez needs it or in Alex…Go tell Mubarak that the peoples revolution does not his damn internet!
M: Ha ha! You just gave me a possible title for the piece my friend…
O: Tayyib good. But honestly I mean 40 % of this country is living below the poverty line and a large chunk above that is barely surviving and then you have middle class doctors and lawyers etc and then you have you know rich people like me yaani…I mean it is true that cell phone penetration has improved very much…you know they even say that maybe 60 million have cellphones…you know…but its like those basic yaani really basic mobiles…nothing fancy…no internet bullshit for example…I can tell you that the majority of Egyptians have no idea what Facebook is or what Twitter is! I mean you ask me this everyday—but its true yaani…and look at this… a very basic mobile is from 180 Egyptian pounds…a fancy internet capable phone like an Iphone and that Droid thing or the blackberry cost around 3000 pounds…and I will just talk about the so called middle class for a second…before revolution they said they would increase the minimum wage to 1200 pounds a month…right now it is about 800 pounds…800 pounds to feed a family of 4 maybe more? And then you go and buy an internet enabled phone which costs more than 3 months of your salary?.
Me: So how and why is this whole narrative evolving?
O: You mean all this internet stuff…well before he shut us out on Thursday…there was vibrant communication between a certain and very small class of society in terms of relative numbers…this is the class of people who have ALWAYS been absent and apathetic from the suffering of the Egyptian majority…the poor people…you know that was good…so maybe a little bit through twitter and all the apathetic students and professional class started communicating for the first time…
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's not like these guys can call a press conference. Their "timely" proclamations usually come weeks or months after the fact.
― Super Cub, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
Fuck the internet! I have not seen it since Thursday Go tell Mubarak that the peoples revolution does not his damn internet!
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
as always, Robert Fisk gets the story-interview no one else gets
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Thanks a ton for that al-jazeera live feed! They are reporting that the state run Egyptian TV expects an announcement from Mubarak "soon".
― Aimless, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol wikipedia already updated w Mubarak's declining to run for reelection announcement
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh man been looking forward to this since thursday.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
None of them ever seems to master a few simple survival techniques: Don't let the supreme leader's extended family go on shopping sprees; don't publicly spoil some firstborn as if the people can't wait for him, too, to be proclaimed from the balcony; don't display your personal photograph all over the landscape; don't claim more than, say, 75 percent of the vote in any "election" you put on.
^^^lolz. was just remarking to my wife the other day how odd/hilarious it was that none of these guys ever win less than 90% of a vote; like they're incapable of faking a realistic election result
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
the best is putin, whose crew would win even free elections but who fixes them anyway.
best line in the hitchens thing is
We argued that the supposed attractions of authoritarian "stability" are in fact illusory, since nothing is more volatile and unsafe than dictatorship, which lacks any self-critical method for learning from its mistakes.
although that redundant "self-critical" scuppers the prose. but he's ill.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mordy and Aimless, you can also get it directly on their site: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
US aid for democracy promotion and civil society in Egypt in 2010= $24 million
US military aid to Egypt in 2010= $1.3 billion
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
so i guess he's dead
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
i feel like hitchens 'dictatorships fall therefor they must not be constructed v well' formulation doesnt really work irl - i mean mubaraks been in power for 30 years right - that a p good run - you think any elected official wouldnt take 30 years - i mean how longs the n korean regime been rolling - theyve got lol hueg pictures of themselves everywhere - everything in the world eventually fails youve got to look at it in relative terms
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
looks pretty stoic about it
― am0n, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
kinda bemused imo
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hitchens' point is what I've been mulling over all week. What's more stable than a system, if not a particular govmt, that is widely perceived to be legitimate and responsive to real popular feeling? It could be a constitutional monarchy or a republic but it's likely to last longer than a dictatorship or an oligarchy.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
ice cr?m, 30 years is pretty short according to the long view and it can be argued that w/o America as bogey-man and PRC as a benefactor, NKorea would have toppled already. Maybe the corollary to his point is that, yes, you can keep an authoritarian regime in power for ages but the more successful you are at it, the poorer and more brutalized the ppl, i.e., Burma or NK.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Obv, the key to any dictatorship is to prevent the mass of people from openly communicating their true thoughts about it. The moment these thoughts become openly available to everyone, the dictator falls.
BTW, the whole point of those thousands of grandiose portraits and statues of the Maximum Leader is to cow you into accepting your insignifigance in comparison and to project omnipresent superpotency. That's why they do it, fella. No mistake being made there.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
I like this bit in Hitchens' essay:
None of them ever seems to master a few simple survival techniques: Don't let the supreme leader's extended family go on shopping sprees; don't publicly spoil some firstborn as if the people can't wait for him, too, to be proclaimed from the balcony; don't display your personal photograph all over the landscape; don't claim more than, say, 75 percent of the vote in any "election" you put on. And don't try to shut down social media: It will instantly alert even the most somnolent citizen to the fact that you are losing, or have lost, your grip.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
liberal democracy may be more stable from the pov of maintaining a form of government for a long time - but thats not what dictators are after - they want a form that gives them personal power for the longest time
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
theyd just rather not be voted out of office
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Now official. Mubarak won't run again, but intends to stay in power until new elections are held. I predict that minimal sop won't disperse the crowds in Cairo.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
It does allow him a small fiction of being 'constitutional'.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
tried pretty hard to play on the looting angle.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
I noticed he was semaphoring to the military, too. Stuff about how 'I am a military man and therefore think only of my duty to my country.'
― Aimless, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
I noticed he was semaphoring to the military, too.
Well, that doesn't surprise me at all, plus the Republic was declared under Gen Naguib and then taken over by Gen Nasser.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Did this get posted yet:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Articles/Obama_Muslim_Brotherhood.htm
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 23:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
welp
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 23:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
cool site polyphonic
― goole, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 23:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
serious hair dye action (xp)
― sleeve, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 23:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
seems kinda petty/silly to claim that a) his intention not to run has nothing to do with the protests and b) the protests are a result of outside forces trying to take over the gov't
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 February 2011 23:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
seems like he might want to consider leaving the palace by Friday to avoid being strung up by an angry mob
mubarak being petty.... weird
― max, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
b) the protests are a result of outside forces trying to take over the gov't
Well in his conception, the People are an outside force.
― Super Cub, Tuesday, 1 February 2011 23:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
One of my closest friend's wife's parents are stuck in Egypt at the moment and cant get out. Theyre all freaking out big time.
― Cyclone Yazoo (Trayce), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
just me or does mubarak look and sound like a boss in metal gear solid
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
apparently he's told friends he has a phd in obstinacy.
― hoisin crispy mubaduck (ledge), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
posting to move bookmark
― dayo, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
at the end of this video - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12342611
xpost
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
order breaking down in Cairo, Anderson Cooper "punched 10 times in the head"
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
There's a live feed on msnbc.com of a huge rock battle between the protesters and the "regime supporters". Surreal. Really hope this isn't live footage of the beginning of a civil war.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Kristof just tweeted "Mubarak seems to be trying to stage a crackdown not with police or army, but with thugs. They are armed and brutal."
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Somebody talk me off the cliff, my stomach is turning.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Al Jazeera is reporting that many of the Mubarak "supporters"/thugs are carrying police IDs. This is basically a Mubarak sponsored attack against the protesters.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
Unsettling images... Horrible.
― LBI clearly believes the cat is gone (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak "supporters" now showing up in Alexandria.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
classic stuff
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Army tanks have rolled into the square now...
― LBI clearly believes the cat is gone (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
tanksTRUCKS
― LBI clearly believes the cat is gone (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
Shots being fired again
― LBI clearly believes the cat is gone (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
jesus
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
Army has "no orders" to intervene and therefore are staying put, according to correspondent on Al Jazeera.
Mubarak looking to "gain momentum" by letting the chaos and rioting flame on :-(
― LBI clearly believes the cat is gone (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
If Mubarak keeps responding with violence, it'll be so sad. What can anyone else do? Urge them not to do it through diplomatic channels?
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak seems to be deciding that he would rather be Ceaucescu than Hoenecker.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
someone now reporting that 500 have been injured today and 300 killed (the latter figure they're unsure as to whether that's just today or an accumulated total)
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, and punching it up a little. AJ reporter talking about how few ambulances there are.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
xpostIt's 300 cumulatively, over the last 9 days.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
ok "good"
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
Reports on the ground strongly suggest that Mubarak is doing far more than punching it up a little, or merely letting the chaos continue.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
molotov cocktails flying all over the place
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
^^^this. without the army, this guy is gonna die
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
hey look Yemeni President also totally rattled
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
jimsciuttoABC. Egypt death toll now tops toll for Iran protests, which US and West widely condemned as an atrocity
tweeted about 30 minutes ago.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
the parents of someone i know are trapped in cairo at the moment, and another girl's husband who was visiting his family is also stuck over there, and for now he's just helping out dudes from the neighborhood attempt to keep looters out of their area.
― omar little, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
andersoncooper. Its getting really bad in front of egyptian museum48 minutes ago
destruction of egyptian antiquities would be a tragic footnote to this bloodbath.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I thought the army had tanks in front of the Egyptian Museum, no?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
searching for that now. . .
meanwhile, is this the video that began the uprising?
(apologies if it's been posted before)
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
more tragic would be if it took the destruction of antiquities to get the attn of an apathetic western viewing audience
― ullr saves (gbx), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
the army is guarding "buildings of national importance" but there hasn't been any significant protester-army violence as far as i can tell. dunno what happens if you try to damage the egyptian museum but the army is being really really reserved; honestly still unclear which way they're breaking, probably to them as well.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
(xp) this story hasn't already captured the attention of the western viewing audience?
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
(i'm late to it, i admit, but not for general lack of engagement with world news)
Btw,
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/67347/steven-a-cook/the-us-egyptian-breakup
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think all the westerners who are interested in stuff like this (i.e. things happening in other countries) are following it.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
Anderson Cooper was reportedly punched 10 times in the head by the pro-Mubarak mob earlier this morning.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
wow this went from near-best-case to near-worst-case in about 24 hours
― max, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
(i'm late to it, i admit, but not for general lack of engagement with world news)― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, February 2, 2011 10:43 AM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, February 2, 2011 10:43 AM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
not a jab at you, daniel! i just have the impression (perhaps unfounded) that the US man on the street doesn't really know or care much about egypt at the moment, and will likely have stronger opinions about the destruction of antiquities than the actual political situation
― ullr saves (gbx), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
I wouldn't put it past Mubarak and his thugs to press the anti-M demonstrators right in front of the Museum just to show that he and HE alone is on the side of stability and protecting Egypt's patrimony.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
understood, gbx.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm not really sure about gbx's premise - the news is FULL of Egypt right now, including the financial news, but when I went to Egypt, I was amazed that people (fellow Americans) who had shelled out serious bucks to go see the pyramids, etc..., had no idea the Greeks were ever there, were unclear about the Romans involvement, had no chronological idea of Islam's age and were shocked to find out that Napoleon was ever there. I can clearly see in my mind's eye one lady from near Vegas as her eyes glassed over at the mention of the Fatimids.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
i could be totally wrong, granted.
― ullr saves (gbx), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Americans ignorant of world history shockah
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
MSNBC live video stream is very unsettling.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
My in-depth knowledge of Thailand ain't great either but I would brush up on it if I went.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
don't really know what the attraction is of going anywhere if you don't know the history. like, just buy a ViewMaster if all you want to do is look at some pyramids.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Let's be frank, too; you can go to Thailand and do nothing but lay on the beach, visit brothels and eat cheap food. Most ppl don't really go to Egypt for anything BUT history.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Red sea resorts denizens would disagree.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
@waelabbas Eyewitness:Tank commander put pistol in his mouth to commit suicide, soldiers stopped him & burst out crying #egypt
― ears are wounds, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
as if complaining about ignorant americans touring abroad is not as narrow + self-centered as those americans themselves. can we talk about egypt without it being about how educated and classy we are compared to other americans?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yes. Sorry for derail.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
Tho, to respond to gbx original point, I doubt the destruction of antiquities wld really cause many more ppl to pay attention to this.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
also, destruction of antiquities WOULD be really tragic - i don't know if people will become more upset if it happens but they should. i wouldn't say that these artifacts are worth more than human lives, but i also wouldn't say that they're worth less. they're our connection to shared human histories and it would be nice if we could preserve them for future generations.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
one report i heard was that the looting of antiquities has been overblown, so far. one museum was broken into, but only the giftshop got cleaned out
― goole, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
Amazingly poor coverage on Sky News of current events, which can be summarised as "crazy foreigners lay into each other". CNN has this ongoing header "Egypt's Protests Turn Violent", as though it was the protesters rather than pro-regime thugs who were instigating violence.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
watch Aljazeera
― Super Cub, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
AJE has been excellent, imo
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
yup. don't bother with western media imho
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah I saw this too. was a relief to read.
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
poor camel
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
The crowds need ropes for those guys. 'Cavalry' very susceptible to being clotheslined.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak relying on professional thugs to do his dirty work isn't really a tactic that's going to reinforce his legitimacy imho
will be sad if this devolves into full-scale street-fighting with the army just standing by to protect various buildings
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, February 2, 2011 12:38 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Pikemen, dude. Pikemen.
― Elegant Bitch (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
reprehensible, etc. but that takes some guts to be the first wading in there on a fucking camel
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
It takes guts to protest against a brutal dictatorship.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm worried about that horse. :(
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
sure, but I imagine the guy would be trying to hit the other guy.
anyway, animals get killed in abattoirs all the time, so feh.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
Plus they're doing it for free.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
was said upthread, but the purposely neutral pro- and anti-Mubarak language being used on the news is v irritating
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
I half expect to see this next
― jesus wants me for a goon meme (brownie), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Camel dudes are pro-Mubarak thugs.
― champagne in the arse (suzy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
1811: BBC world affairs editor John Simpson, in Cairo, says: "Within the last half hour, the heavy battle outside the Egyptian museum between pro- and anti-government demonstrators has ended. Rather unexpectedly, the confrontation seems to have been won by the pro-democracy protesters. All through the day they have been under attack by supporters of President Mubarak, and this represents an important turnaround in the situation. The opposition has now regained control of Tahrir Square, the centre of the last nine days of protests."
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
something to be said for sheer strength of numbers. I mean, really how many pro-Mubarak supporters can there be
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
hoping for a bloke in an ostrich costume after the elephants
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also, Britons: Can you explain why the BBC media player's max audio level is '11'?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
the news eventually gets round to estimating a few hundred pro-mubaraks, after a quarter-hour of giving the impression Egypt is split 50/50
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
I love that - can only be a spinal tap reference
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Risible:
1604: Witnesses tell BBC Arabic that the camels and horses that charged anti-government demonstrators in Tahrir Square earlier belonged to people who work at the Pyramids in Giza. They were apparently angry that the unrest was driving away tourists from Cairo and hurting their businesses.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
I certainly hope so.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
^^ that's not so surprising. if the government and economy are as corrupt as people say, i'm sure the plum gigs like antiquities tourism are going to be held by loyalists
― goole, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
― am0n, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
Gibbs press conference on right now. If I hear him refer to the administration's "posture" one more time in gonna barf.
― Z S, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
goole, I would not be that surprised if it were true, but it's not a terribly astute assessment to blame the demonstrators at this point.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
i turned off the gibbs conference after ten minutes of stuttered replies about the egyptian people's right to demand change.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
when does Jay Carnival take command of the press office?
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
u guys have noticed that the WH mouthpiece's job is to figure out how not to answer questions, ja?
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
i only went the ten minutes because i thought it might end.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm torn on what the administration's proper response should be. you think they should forcefully denounce mubarak and endorse the protestors?
waiting for fox to run a story about "(mu)bara(c)k obama."
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
no i really do appreciate the miserable difficulty of their embarrassing geopolitical situation! it's just dull to watch is all.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
― buzza, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
It followed Mr. Mubarak’s 10-minute television address on Tuesday, in which he pledged to step down within months — an offer that was rejected by his opponents, who have demanded his immediate resignation — and was met with a call by President Obama for a political transition “now” that infuriated Cairo.
“There is a contradiction between calling on the transition to begin now, and the calls which President Mubarak himself has made for an orderly transition,” an Egyptian official said Wednesday. “Mubarak’s primary responsibility is to ensure an orderly and peaceful transfer of power. We can’t do that if we have a vacuum of power.”
The official said that the Egyptian government has “a serious issue with how the White House is spinning this.”
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
ie "30 years of loyalty and this is how you treat me?"
Utter bullshit. There's no reason an interim govmt cannot arrange for elections and it frankly would be any more lacking in legitimacy than he is. He is the biggest obstacle to stability right now.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egyptian Constitution says: resignation of president triggers elections in 60 days
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/democracy_for_egypt_m/
― goole, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
ffs so the sticking-point is pride, a bit of dignity, facesaving? It's not important, pal, you're not going to spend the rest of your life mattering. Be content with your big house in Riyadh and do one
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
(incidentally, do you really need real player to get the al-jz live feed?)
― goole, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
the US will NEVER do what it SHOULD do in these situations, bcz it will always support despots when they are deemed strategically "necessary." For all the acknowledgment of realpolitik in the public sphere, "we support freedom" is the mother's milk of public rhetoric.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hard to believe that a man who is being openly reviled and rejected by millions of his countrymen, who have taken to the streets for this sole purpose, thinks he has any reason for pride.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
There are legitimate fears that if the U.S. appears to support the opposition, say someone like ElBaradei, it will diminish that person's credibility in the eyes of many in Egypt.
― Super Cub, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Or put more simply, the U.S. may help the opposition more by shutting up.
Also, U.S. involvement could boost the popularity of extremist factions in the opposition.
― Super Cub, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think the US should worry about their strategic alliances and just by saying that they will acknowledge the will of the Egyptian people is about the extent to which i think they should go in promoting democracy in egypt. not because i don't think democracy in egypt is a worthwhile cause (promoting democracy is the most worthwhile cause even) but because why should the US be participating in another country's attempts to become more democratic? that's just more colonial bullshit. offer them support, encourage the dictator not to use violence, but otherwise let them find their way into democracy themselves.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/2011/02/egypts_incipient_revolution.html
― goole, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mordy otm
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
"sclerotic" is such a great word
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
the US will NEVER do what it SHOULD do in these situations, bcz it will always support despots when they are deemed strategically "necessary." For all the acknowledgment of realpolitik in the public sphere, "we support freedom" is the mother's milk of public rhetoric.― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 2, 2011 7:44 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 2, 2011 7:44 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark
what in your opinion SHOULD the US be doing? something? nothing? stop arming egypt in future? what?
― history mayne, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
overthrowing capitalist plutocracy, refusing to allow anyone under 40 to write for snl iirc
― Prom Dressantino 2011 (Lamp), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
(kind of stayed out of this thread because i kind of felt, well, it's great and kind of surprising we have this many experts on egypt, how did i miss them all these years on ilx, and what could i bring to the table?)
― history mayne, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
X-post-Ha. So you have to be an expert to comment on this board? Wow. Didn't know that.
i think the US should worry about their strategic alliances and just by saying that they will acknowledge the will of the Egyptian people is about the extent to which i think they should go in promoting democracy in egypt
Right-wingers I see want to be on both sides of this issue. Tony Blankely (who worked for Gingrich and Reagan and is now at some right wing think-tank) just had an editorial in the Washington Times saying the Iranian Green revolution failed because Obama was too quiet, but then he argued that Egypt was different and complained that Obama was being too loud in his support for the Egyptian people.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
So you have to be an expert to comment on this board? Wow. Didn't know that.
no, but there's a kind of bien-pensant vibe relating to matters egyptian im not so comfortable with
― history mayne, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm not an expert on egypt, i'm just reading the news
sorry history mayne
― goole, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
*looks up "bien-pensant"*
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Tony Blankely (who worked for Gingrich and Reagan and is now at some right wing think-tank) just had an editorial in the Washington Times saying the Iranian Green revolution failed because Obama was too quiet
i am no expert on this subject, but this sounds like utter nonsense.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
Right wingers basically want to hedge so that if a transition to democracy works out they can say yay democracy we were right all along and if it doesn't they can blame Obama for "undermining stability" or whatever.
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
I really don't care to expound on what a gangster entity like the US govt should be doing in some fantasy dimension, enrique.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wondering whether Mubarak has a dedicated thug budget, or if it just comes out of the general slush fund.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
Another good article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/02/the-battle-in-cairos-tahrir-square/70663/
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
Roy Edroso catches a writer at National Review getting off the bus they built and drove for eight years: The rebellions sweeping across North Africa and into Jordan may in fact be the stuff of the neocon/Bushian fantasy that all peoples everywhere yearn to be free and that the answer to “Islam is the answer” is Jacksonian democracy. But color me skeptical.
― Mr. Fart Pop Bass (Phil D.), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
he US will NEVER do what it SHOULD do in these situations, bcz it will always support despots when they are deemed strategically "necessary."
i wish we lived in a country that did not do this, like atlantis
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Speaking of Iran, will the right-wingers also blame Obama for Iran executing 66 people in January (a rate three times that of last year). http://af.reuters.com/article/southAfricaNews/idAFLDE7111UG20110202
I heard someone interviewed on the radio who said most of those executions were for political reasons, and they suggested that iran wants to especially keep things quiet now (because of Egypt and the anniversary of the earlier protests in Iran)
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
i assume the right-wing hedge-betting is mostly that, if the uprising succeeds, it was inspired by the iraq invasion.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
I saw posters with pictures of Mossadegh during the Green Revolution ostensibly pointing out that, just like in 1953, the will of the people had been thwarted. Obama underlinging the essential sovereignty of the people and stating support for govmt forebearance and the right of the people to assmble and petition w/o threat of violence has been spot-on in both cases and meddling in other peoples' affairs in either Iran or Egypt is counter-productive.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Speaking of Iran, will the right-wingers also blame Obama for Iran executing 66 people in January
The US officially called on Iran to halt political executions yesterday.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
sooooooo adult o' you.how about Switzerland?
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, because there's nothing morally suspect about Switzerland.
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
nobody in egypt gives a shit what governments switzerland endorses; governments america endorses are more of a Hot Topic
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
how about Switzerland?
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
nazi gold etc
if america plays this cool, and is lucky, they get a perceived ally, not a perceived puppet. which is way more useful, to everyone.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
I get shit about SNL from 35 years ago and you have to go back to Nazis, eh
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
really kinda sorry (and glad) I'll probably die around the time the USA becomes a second-rate power.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
hey if you need an updated example where do you think all your favorite plutocrats and drug lords stash their cash. in fact, where do you think Mubarak is probably flying suitcases of cash too RIGHT NOW
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
relatively irrelevant details, baby, our financial cachets are just as bloody and likely moreso
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean, i wish that everyone in the american administration were at liberty to say exactly how they feel about egypt and i would also hope that many of those people would side firmly with the protesters. it's just that a country in america's situation being capable of doing that would be so bizarre a historical anomaly it'd probably have dragons.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
I really don't care to expound on what a gangster entity like the US govt should be doing in some fantasy dimension, enrique.― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 2, 2011 8:44 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 2, 2011 8:44 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
ok, probs best not to go around talking about how "the US will NEVER do what it SHOULD do in these situations" then
― history mayne, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
where's my dragon goddammit
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
which is why Biden saying "um, not really a dictator" brought the lolz
hey guys, i don't think it matters what we think or say, like in everything else.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
ok nrq -- targeted assassination of Mubarak. fuck you.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Money, as much as anything, if not more so, is what made France/UK/Israel bail on Suez in '56.
Can I borrow your crystal ball, morbz? Hopefully what will emerge both for the US and for regimes around the world, is that realpolitik is all well and good in the short term but if you fuck the people over, eventually you end up with either a rotten country or a revolt, sometimes both and the longer democracy and accountability are denied, the uglier the politics get.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
targeted assassination of Mubarak. fuck you.
That would be disastrously stupid.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
that is why I added the kiss for nrq.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
so Morbz position on what the US should do is that they should assassinate someone. HEY. Maybe Obama can joekz about that at the next Press Comedy Hour!
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
y'all judging the US by what's being said in public? save that for Hopey's reelection campaign.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Open your eyes, sheeple!
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think we're judging the US by what we know has to be said in private and the elegance or inelegance with which it's admitted in public.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
"we're judging the US by what we know has to be said in private"
who told us, Bob Woodward?
u guys did read that Bush phoned Mubarak?
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
At a cost of over a billion a year, we got the premier Arab country to remain at peace with Israel (and to switch from the Soviets to the US) even though it ended up costing them their leader and us our credibility, but we didn't impose this military leadership on Egypt, we just helped it stay in power. Since the Free Officers revolt/Revolution of 1952, though technically a Republic, Egypt has essentially always been ruled by a military officer.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
no matter what else is true about this situation, this stuff definitely is: a corrupt regime the united states has supported for years because it's uniquely friendly to u.s. foreign policy objectives is being overthrown in an obviously justified middle-class revolution that may lead to a government similarly friendly to u.s.f.p.os. it may also be crushed, or turn into something much less obliging to the united states. if the united states throws itself behind the revolution and the revolution succeeds, the state it creates will have been tainted by u.s. involvement. if they do so and the revolution fails, they lose a whole lot of willingness to cooperate from mubarak. if they do so and the revolution becomes notably less middle-class and secular, they might as well not have done so. the only thing anyone in the administration can possibly do, with this giant inertia-swollen thing behind them, is find a good way of phrasing "we are waiting to see what happens". expecting anything more from them seems pretty fruitless.
i'm sure there are plenty of cia guys in cairo doing all kinds of exciting stuff. those guys are being similarly pushed by history but they'd be easier to argue about than what speeches robert gibbs gives.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
(as far as i can tell "crushed" is off the table now, but it wasn't as late as monday.)
Mubarak could have cracked down on the protestors at any time over the last few days. But the violence didn't erupt until Mubarak's statement last night that he will not seek another term this year. Today's clashes were probably not the regime's final death rattle, but rather the beginning of the struggle to determine who emerges on top in the post-Mubarak era.
from David Kurtz at TPM
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
obama, OSAMA ... amirite morbius
― am0n, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
don't give up! i feel that your posts here are laying the groundwork for a violent revolution that will restore the nation to greatness.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
bye guys. I have already advised Bam not to let Mubi over here if he gets sick.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
internet is back on there, my cousin and her kids are leaving on an ordered departure, her husband is staying, they just moved there a couple weeks ago fyi
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Video footage:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201122124446797789.html
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
no matter what else is true about this situation, this stuff definitely is: a corrupt regime the united states has supported for years because it's uniquely friendly to u.s. foreign policy objectives is being overthrown in an obviously justified middle-class revolution that may lead to a government similarly friendly to u.s.f.p.os. it may also be crushed, or turn into something much less obliging to the united states. if the united states throws itself behind the revolution and the revolution succeeds, the state it creates will have been tainted by u.s. involvement. if they do so and the revolution fails, they lose a whole lot of willingness to cooperate from mubarak. if they do so and the revolution becomes notably less middle-class and secular, they might as well not have done so. the only thing anyone in the administration can possibly do, with this giant inertia-swollen thing behind them, is find a good way of phrasing "we are waiting to see what happens". expecting anything more from them seems pretty fruitless.i'm sure there are plenty of cia guys in cairo doing all kinds of exciting stuff. those guys are being similarly pushed by history but they'd be easier to argue about than what speeches robert gibbs gives.― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, February 2, 2011 9:24 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, February 2, 2011 9:24 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
this seems otm 2 me. idk about 'tainted' by US involvement. a perception thing really. i mean, did anyone begrudge the fact that the american revolution got an assist from absolutist france?
― history mayne, Thursday, 3 February 2011 00:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh a perception thing's what i mean. nobody begrudged america france that i know anything about, but america wasn't right in the middle of a region with an endless unpleasant history of being fucked around with by france to serve french interests. i mean, not in the same way.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 00:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
wheres kermit roosevelt when you need him
― max, Thursday, 3 February 2011 00:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
serious poetry here - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/03/world/middleeast/03arab.html
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 3 February 2011 01:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
i don't know if anybody else is showing this right now, but MSNBC is essentially broadcasting a battle in a way i've sort of never seen before.
― Clay, Thursday, 3 February 2011 02:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i'm watching
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 02:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 02:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is... i don't know if i want to see this.
― Clay, Thursday, 3 February 2011 02:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
hard not to assume the worst - seems like anti-govt ppl are brutalizing some pro-mubarak truck driver that they surrounded
i'm hearing what sounds like automatic fire elsewhere too
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 02:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh AJE, there's been gunfire off and on the past hour from the pro-Mubarak side at Tahrir square.
― The Reverend, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
Any definite reports on what's happening or just attempts to work it out from general confusion?
― emil.y, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh, AJE, good idea, thanks rev. anything's better than ed schultz now that maddow's off the air.
― Clay, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
engel is reporting there's a lynching occurring
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh AJE = On AJE
― The Reverend, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Btw, what up Clay! Sorry I never returned your message on fb. I am horrible about that.
― The Reverend, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
i hate to ask this, but who is allegedly lynching who?
― Z S, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
i can't tell either
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
would guess anti-s are lynching pro-s but can't say
hopefully he's just mistaken
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
s?
― The Reverend, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
sup rev! (don't want to clutter up this thread too much with personal stuff, but yeah, no biggie. i'm the worst at email/fb/texts etc. hit me up sometime, though, let me know what's going on!)
― Clay, Thursday, 3 February 2011 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol im kinda drunk, that's my ignorant way of pluralizing xp
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 04:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
here's a characteristically grim take:
http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2011/02/02/hyper-realism-to-the-rescue/
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 04:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
no matter what you think of that, the idea that the military is just hanging back and chillin out of, what? loyalty? patriotism? needs to be second guessed maybe.
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 04:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
eh out of not killin ppl presumably
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 04:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
larison makin me depressed as usual
― max, Thursday, 3 February 2011 04:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Someone on AJE just said "twitteratti". u_u
― The Reverend, Thursday, 3 February 2011 04:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is absolutely terrifying and there's about zero chance it doesn't get way, way worse.
― Clay, Thursday, 3 February 2011 05:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
fascinating, terrifying, confusing.
It is still unclear what exactly happened in the events that followed, but rumor has it that one of the ministers responsible for the security of the nation didn't react well to Mubarak asking him to resign and ordered the police to leave and opened the doors to dozens of prisons so that more than 2000 prisoners could leave. Others say Mubarak was responsible because the minister couldn't have ordered anything once resigned. Either way, prisoners escaped, thugs went into empty police stations and stole all the weapons.That's when real fear spread around the nation. We didn't fear the government or Mubarak but our own people. The triggering of this event brought out the best and worst of Egyptians. The looters started breaking into homes, raping girls (one of them the daughter of a friend of mine), stealing whatever they could and threatening citizens with the guns they stole. The sound of gunfire echoed all over the city.
That's when real fear spread around the nation. We didn't fear the government or Mubarak but our own people. The triggering of this event brought out the best and worst of Egyptians. The looters started breaking into homes, raping girls (one of them the daughter of a friend of mine), stealing whatever they could and threatening citizens with the guns they stole. The sound of gunfire echoed all over the city.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 05:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sounds like creating pretexts for imposing martial law.
― Aimless, Thursday, 3 February 2011 05:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
unfortunately I agree with that
― sleeve, Thursday, 3 February 2011 05:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
Anyone know if the shooting is still going on? Not finding any reports from the last couple of hours.
― Super Cub, Thursday, 3 February 2011 06:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
Doesn't sound like it. Looks like things have calmed down some as morning has broke.
― The Reverend, Thursday, 3 February 2011 06:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
A bunch of video from down on the ground at Tahrir Square here: http://bambuser.com/channel/RamyRaoof/broadcast/1378380
― The Reverend, Thursday, 3 February 2011 07:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
well, i mean, per the guardian, the army is "dispersing" the mubarak goons, so that's (obligatory bet-hedge here) promising/better than them being allowed to let rip
― history mayne, Thursday, 3 February 2011 09:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think one bit of the army dispersed one lot of Mubarak thugs, but that does not mean that the army is definitively intervening in favour of the pro-democracy people.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 3 February 2011 10:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
horrible footage of one of the supporters being dragged from his horse.
― F-Unit (Ste), Thursday, 3 February 2011 11:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
The one famous Egyptian politician we haven't heard from yet is the geezer in charge of the pyramids etc, the guy in the Indiana Jones hat who's usually always trying to get his face on the telly
― Tom D (Lenin's his feir and Liebknecht's his mate) (Tom D.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 12:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Tom D (Lenin's his feir and Liebknecht's his mate) (Tom D.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 12:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://progressiverealist.org/blogpost/al-jazeera-spotlight
Al Jazeera is generally hesitant to shine a critical spotlight on states and political organizations that it views as a part of the Islamist "resistance" against Israel. This explains its sympathetic reporting towards Syria, Hamas, and Hezbollah. It also provides some insight into why its coverage of the PA, Fatah, Egypt, and other Western-leaning states tends to be so hostile.
Again, though, the point is the following: that despite the extremely important role that Al Jazeera has played in Tunisia and Egypt, it is not a given that the network will continue to be at the forefront of propelling future protest movements in the region. Al Jazeera has its own editorial line, and it is also restricted by its Qatari patrons. The network was very late in covering the initial demonstrations in Egypt, for example, which some analysts speculate may have been because Mubarak's government cut some sort of deal with Qatari authorities. Or perhaps it was because the Qatari monarchy was worried about its own skin -- that another burgeoning protest movement, so soon after Tunisia, might eventually encourage an uprising back at home. Whatever the case, this is not to say that Al Jazeera won't cover additional uprisings in the Arab world -- the network most certainly will, or it risks losing credibility (not to mention market share.) But it is quite possible that, in countries like Syria or Saudi Arabia, about which the network has historically tended to give more favorable coverage, that its reporting will be much less sympathetic towards the ambitions of the protesters.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 3 February 2011 15:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
i have to admit that nearly as fascinating to me as the events themselves has been the insanity of the right wing in analyzing it. insane in a more confused and self-contradictory way than usual.
here's a pretty good "yup, they went there" roundup from tpm
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/right_wing_reacts_to_egypt_protests_obama_is_in_le.php
i hadn't heard some of these
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://gawker.com/5749601/
― max, Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
how so? are they, for instance, reserving the right to take credit for a potentially successful uprising, based on the iraq invasion, but contemporaneously reserving the right to blame democrats if an anti-american dictator rises to power?
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh! messages crossed paths. thanks, max.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
love this
Advanced by: Rush LimbaughSample quote: "Well, the same question needs to be asked about Pharaoh Obama. Why didn't the Pharaoh see this coming, particularly given his wonderful relationship with this regimes and their people? Obama went over there, made a speech...even grew a quasi-mustache there for the appropriate facial hair."
WAKE UP, PEOPLE; HE GREW FACIAL HAIR!
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
The greatest comic genius in history couldn't make some of this up
― Tom D (Lenin's his feir and Liebknecht's his mate) (Tom D.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm gonna grow a pseudo-beard in protest
― The indie rocker is the modern hippie, and the internet is his LSD (herb albert), Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
It still just absolutely blows my mind that Limbaugh is broadcast on Armed Forces Network radio.
― Mr. Fart Pop Bass (Phil D.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
he is a real american, fight for the rights of every man.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
gj max!
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
this event is really interesting to me in how much "see, bush was right!" is a minority opinion on the right.
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
no real mystery there. they only wanted to expand democracy to um, gov'ts we don't actually like. whereas Mubarak was a bro/friend of Israel, etc.
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
This event is really interesting in a lot of ways, but IMHO the reaction of the American right-wing is not one of them.
― Super Cub, Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
like, Syria, Iran, yeah let's get rid of 'em! Egypt and Saudi and Jordan, eh not so much.
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
ugh Suleiman on state TV mouthing total lies is really disgusting
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Super Cub, Thursday, February 3, 2011 10:58 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
well, fair enough, but, you can't really talk about egypt w/o talking about america. $billions a year since camp david is part of the story. those are abrams tanks in the streets, you know? plus, i'm in america so this is the environment i'm in.
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
fascination with a narrow spectrum of showbiz righty-pundits: The Official Hobby of ILE Politics Posters
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, i admit to being interested in the reaction across the spectrum of united states political thought.
but i think you have a point -- here, and in general -- that it's in some sense a smug mocking excercise to focus on the reaction of the hard right, or it's silly pundits, or the tea party.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, as i say, dr. m has a point.
I don't get this at all. What the right wing in America thinks, however wrongly, is immensely important to Egypt.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
pundits only speak if they think there's a constituency for it. do you think general american opinion is any different, morbs?
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm trying to get my head around various scenarios for how this will play out and I'm kinda stuck between a) Mubarak being strung up by angry mob and b) army cracks down, death toll increases dramatically, Mubarak (or Suleiman) stays in power. If the latter happens, I can't really figure out what the US position will be. If the former happens it's pretty obvious how the US will react (condemn the violence but attempt to deal with whatever interim gov't steps in)
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
feel like it's very possible now that mubarak will continue to indirectly ramp up the violence in the square until he can plausibly go on tv and tell the general egyptian people that The Protesters' Anarchic Violence Has Forced His Hand and that he's cracking down For The Protection Of The People. i don't know how far the army is out of his pocket at this point but i can see them helping him clear the square in a situation like that. hope not.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
this suleiman guy (who is all kinds of interrogating cia-prisoner-rendering creepy) is supposed to give a speech soon. the tone/reception of that--not just by the protesters but by the country--will matter.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah I share your suspicions
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh and xp i think the reaction of the Beck/Palin/Corner fringe right is pretty irrelevant here--interesting only as the primal scream therapy it usually is. (not saying i don't indulge.) the maneuvering of the actual american government is much more important, like people have said: all that money.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
well, and all that arguably legitimate nat'l interest, too.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
well right yeah.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
This event is really interesting in a lot of ways, but IMHO the reaction of the American right-wing is not one of them.I don't get this at all. What the right wing in America thinks, however wrongly, is immensely important to Egypt.― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:15 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmarkfascination with a narrow spectrum of showbiz righty-pundits: The Official Hobby of ILE Politics Posters― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:13 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:15 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:13 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark
I'm not saying the reasoning of the right-wing policy establishment isn't important. Clearly it is. I guess I just don't like belittling the significance of this event by making zings about how stupid Rush Limbaugh is. But I don't want to be a dick about it.
difficult listening hour OTM
― Super Cub, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
andersoncooper. Situation on ground in #egypt very tense. Vehicle I was in attacked. My window smashed. All ok.1 minute ago
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
pundits only speak if they think there's a constituency for it.
HOW MANY PEOPLE WATCH FAUX NEWS? 6 MILLION OUT OF 310 M?
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.deadline.com/2011/02/fox-news-team-severely-beaten-hospitalized-in-cairo/
― A double shot of Sesame Street (Eazy), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
this going ham on foreign journalists development is unusual no
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
brilliant non-answer morbs. as always.
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/01/playing_catch_up_ball_5_steps_the_us_should_consider_taking_with_egypt
(via Sullivan)
Given the recent rise in wheat prices, #4 might be very astute.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/egypt-hacked-vodafone-to-send-pro-regime-texts/
!! classy
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
muslim brotherhood speaks
"We demand that this regime is overthrown, and we demand the formation of a national unity government for all the factions," the Brotherhood said in a statement broadcast by Al Jazeera.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/middleeast/04brotherhood.html
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
A. Cooper 10 mins ago:Situation on ground in #egypt very tense. Vehicle I was in attacked. My window smashed. All ok.
― A double shot of Sesame Street (Eazy), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Vodafone was whining about that this morning, iIrc, goole.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
any anderson cooper update u guys, totes worried abt our silver fox
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
is this still going on god hurry up already egypt
― am0n, Thursday, 3 February 2011 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
my dad, taking exception to a snide comment i made in an email about "the american media" probably only covering "palin's reaction":
Dude, Anderson Cooper, having got beat up in Tahrir Square yesterday spent the night reporting, somehow live, bunkered on the floor of a lowlit appartment in Cairo -In other words giving the gonzo.
so i guess he's doing fine. i too send my heart to him.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's an interesting article linked in foreign policy. but i'm not so sure about this premise:
Here are five steps Washington should take to expedite the Mubarak regime's inevitable demise
seems like the fate of the mubarak regime isn't "inevitable," either way (unless you're convinced he's sticking to his word about stepping down later this year).
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
The "five step" approach is SO stupid. "Ten Easy Ways Mubarak Could Book An American Airlines Flight From Cairo."
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
5) Warn regional governments against intervening in Egypt's domestic politics on the side of the Mubarak regime. Arab dictatorships are invested in Mr. Mubarak's survival, as they fear a democratic wave that could sweep them from power as well. Israel is also worried about the future of its peace treaty with its southern neighbor. Of the two, Arab capitals have a stronger cause for concern.
empty threats aren't worth making. what will we do if a hostile arab nation is found interfering on mubarak's side? invade; bomb?
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
I do not care what happens to Anderson Cooper one bit
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
How radical left of you.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
invade; bomb?
Surely there are other options like denying them arms or assistance.
The "five step" approach is SO stupid.
It's better than not thinking about various steps at all.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
I really wish Wikileaks had all the diplomatic cables regarding these events. That would make for some fascinating reading.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
mufti mo collier issues fatwa against anderson cooper
― velko, Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
while offering shipments of medical aid through the Red Crescent to all the injured protesters.
Given the track record of the Muslim Brotherhood, esp during the '92 earthquake, coordinating this between the RC and them might be a great way to start positive enagement with them.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Like him or loathe him, fine, Shakey, but in a world where 57 reporters were killed last year, 51 abducted, and there were 1,374 reported cases of attacks or threats on reporters, being glib about this shit is kinda not cool.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
Imagine if Cooper had done his reporting in really dangerous countries like Switzerland.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
AJ was talking earlier about foreign correspondents being beaten by mubarak guys. don't know where they were from. maybe they just meant anderson cooper.
but yeah thugs beating up journalists is actually exactly the kind of thing people should care about. plus he is so beautiful.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
think ilx would condone beatings of daily mail journalists
― Jefferson Mansplain (DG), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
LOL social media:
Kenneth Cole Hijacks "Cairo" Hashtag
― Mr. Fart Pop Bass (Phil D.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:05 PM (36 minutes ago)
jokingly talking about the deaths of famous people is your MO, i know, but what do you have against anderson cooper exactly?
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
A sensible letter from an Average Person on Sully's blog:
I admit I don't know very much about Egypt. But it really seems as if events there are fairly chaotic and have a momentum of their own. I'm not sure anyone could control them very easily now. And everyone is probably trying to hang on. The idea that such a statement from the US would have an effect seems pretty hard to swallow.
And such a threat - to withhold a relationship with Egypt after things settle down - seems totally hollow. Let's say there's a lot of violence, and six months later, a new regime is in power. Maybe they're democratic, maybe not. Are we really going to say, "Look, we told you during the revolution that you had to do this stuff, and you didn't, so we're not going to talk to you." Everyone knows that we'll do whatever is in our interests. That's what everyone always does.
Now that Mubarak hasn't accepted Obama's suggestion that he step down, everyone says, "Well, of course we knew he wouldn't do it, but it had to be said." But now people are insisting that we make demands on the Egyptian military - no one specific, just the military - and of course those demands will be taken seriously.
This isn't really the strangest stuff, though. We've backed Mubarak for more than three decades. We're the main reason he has been able to stay in power. We kept him there, and we've always looked the other way when confronted with his crimes against his own people. We've encouraged him to make decisions that are deeply unpopular among the Egyptian people on a whole variety of issues, including, most prominently, Egypt's relationship with Israel.
Pundits in this country always talk as if the Egyptian people will forget all of this if only Obama will say the right thing on day 6 of the revolution. People act as if our backing of Mubarak for more than 30 years won't really have any lasting consequences, but the things we say today, in the middle of the crisis, will.
Running through all of this is a fairly bizarre conception of the US's power, its ability to project that power, and its image in the world, combined with a staggering inability to consider, even superficially, how things must look to people in other countries . To people in Egypt, for example.
I think we sometimes lose track of how insulating our bubble really is, and how strange the echo chamber can become.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
michael white otm xp
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
great quote Alfred, thanks
― sleeve, Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
um isn't there quite a large degree of difference between not caring about Anderson Cooper and condoning violence against him? obviously violence against journalists is bad. In Anderson Cooper's particular case, I don't really care what happens to him because a) he's worthless as a journalist and b) CNN acting like the most important thing in this crisis is OMG ANDERSON COOPER is disgusting
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
is Cooper a worthless journalist?
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
seriously CNN's coverage of this has made me want to put my foot through the TV. it's been beyond terrible. Last night Piers Morgan was giving a tongue bath to Barbara Walters ("the greatest interviewer ever") while people were being shot at. fuck those douchebags.
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
by the way, Christiane Amanpour has been excellent on ABC – proof that network journalism still exists.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't think that's exactly fair, Shakey. He got pummeled yesterday and I couldn't find anything about anywhere but other news sources than CNN. Fox, of course, loved that story but Cooper's own show's webpage didn't even mention it, or if they did, it was many hours after it had happened.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
i just want to point out how awesome it is that your dad opened a sentence with "Dude,"
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
it was the !!!BANNER HEADLINE!!! on CNN all yesterday afternoon and was ref'd several times on the air last night
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:06 PM (2 minutes ago)
YES
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
um isn't there quite a large degree of difference between not caring about Anderson Cooper and condoning violence against him? obviously violence against journalists is bad. In Anderson Cooper's particular case, I don't really care what happens to him because a) he's worthless as a journalist and b) CNN acting like the most important thing in this crisis is OMG ANDERSON COOPER is disgusting― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:54 (11 minutes ago) Bookmark
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 18:54 (11 minutes ago) Bookmark
hey douchey here's the thing man: "anderson cooper, an american journalist, just got his ass kicked by indiscriminate antidemocratic thugs hired by the regime" "i don't really care what happens to anderson cooper"
A) can you see here how the context is larger than "oh no pretty andy got hit by some mean guys"B) can you see here how that larger context, namely that the thugs have now turned indiscriminately on journalists, is an important part of the storyC) can you see here how your reaction to this event, namely "i don't care what happens to anderson cooper" seems to completely ignore that contextD) can you see here how your reaction to this event seems a completely calloused to the beating of a person, and to that particular beating's place in a larger story about the abuse of journalists, and that particular beating's place in the concurrent story about egypt
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
nah
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
glad we settled that then.
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
also I think yr timeline is wrong - Anderson's beating occurred quite a bit BEFORE all these other reports of pro-Mubarak thugs targeting foreign journalists (including the BBC, etc.) came out. Anderson's beating was reported yesterday morning, I didn't see any reports of others being targeted until this morning
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
So wouldn't you say then that the Cooper beating precipated the beatings?
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
The End is near. I have no illusions about this regime or its leader, and how he will pluck us and hunt us down one by one till we are over and done with and 8 months from now will pay people to stage fake protests urging him not to leave power, and he will stay “because he has to acquiesce to the voice of the people”. This is a losing battle and they have all the weapons, but we will continue fighting until we can’t. I am heading to Tahrir right now with supplies for the hundreds injured, knowing that today the attacks will intensify, because they can’t allow us to stay there come Friday, which is supposed to be the game changer. We are bringing everybody out, and we will refuse to be anything else than peaceful. If you are in Egypt, I am calling on all of you to head down to Tahrir today and Friday. It is imperative to show them that the battle for the soul of Egypt isn’t over and done with. I am calling you to bring your friends, to bring medical supplies, to go and see what Mubarak’s gurantees look like in real life. Egypt needs you. Be Heroes.
http://pajamasmedia.com/michaeltotten/2011/02/03/sandmonkeys-last-post/
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp "Yes I would, Kent."
― Mr. Fart Pop Bass (Phil D.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
that letter's great, Alfred. It's the line I end up taking ad nauseum on most issues, which probably comes across as unbearably sanctimonious sometimes when I can't conceal disgust at how all that narrative basically refuses to accept other people(s) as independent, autonomous actors. Ho hum.
That said, the $1.3bn must be a string to pull on here?
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
words fail me, that's very moving Hoos (xxp)
― sleeve, Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Good ol' McCain:
― polyphonic, Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think drawing a causal link between the first instance and the latter instances is kinda suspect, especially given such a chaotic situation. but whatever
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
I didn't see any reports of others being targeted until this morning
It was definitely out there. A lot of journalists got threatened and attacked yesterday.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp Knowing that McCain has also personally been to Waziristan, this is major!
― Aimless, Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://abcworldnews.tumblr.com/post/3089328425/weve-compiled-a-list-of-all-the-journalist-who
― caek, Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
ugh god that sandmonkey/totten thing is hard to read
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/03/AR2011020301503.html
Last year, a bipartisan group of senators led a months-long drive to pass a resolution calling for greater freedom and democracy in Egypt. The resolution died in December because of a fatal mix of divided loyalties, lobbying influence and secret Senate holds.
Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Russell Feingold (D-Wis.) were the leaders of the effort to press Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to move toward more free and fair elections via the resolution, which called for "supporting democracy, human rights, and civil liberties in Egypt."
But according to three senior Senate aides who worked on the issue, the two senators who worked most actively behind the scenes to prevent the resolution from moving forward were Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Roger Wicker (R-Miss.).
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 19:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
I have two of the most unforgiveable douches for senators. ;_;
― The Gilded Palace of Hatcat (pixel farmer), Thursday, 3 February 2011 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
so it's looking like Mubarak's strategy is a) clamp down on journos/human rights activists so that no one's watching, then b) move in and shoot everybody (either with the security forces/thugs or the army) and then c) announce problem solved/restoration of order
any thoughts on the odds of this working? and at any point will it get bad enough for Obama to withdraw US support and demand his resignation?
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak told ABC's Christiane Amanpour that he is fed up and wants to resign but fears the country will descend into chaos, the reporter said Thursday after an exclusive interview with Mubarak.
fucking hell. off with his head already.
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
sir may i direct you toward this wall
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/shorter-egyptian-government-jan25-is-over/
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary) [Started by max in January 2011, last updated 1 minute ago by bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier) on I Love Everything] 550 new answersKenneth Cole is having a Sale [Started by teeny (teeny) in December 2002, last updated 1 minute ago by i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta) on I Love Everything] 3 new answers
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
i hear rap more than i read twitter so now i can't read any tweet about anything no matter how grave without hearing a hashtag-rap cadence in my head.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
u listening to the wrong rap, son
― originoo gun kl0pper (k3vin k.), Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
u listening to the wrong rap #drake
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
imho hashtag rap is like some horrible descendant of Kevin Nealon's "subliminal man"
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
corned beef and #
― am0n, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
feel like i may have hit upon the one subject capable of derailing the egypt thread
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
feel like were all p focused on the topic at hand #egypt
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
#gameover
― am0n, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
so Muslim Brotherhood refusing to hold talks with the regime #go ham
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/02/02/live-blog-feb-3-egypt-protests
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
― great disorder under heaven: the situation is excellent (Sanpaku), Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary) [Started by max in January 2011, last updated 1 minute ago by bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier) on I Love Everything] 550 new answersKenneth Cole is having a Sale [Started by teeny (teeny) in December 2002, last updated 1 minute ago by i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta) on I Love Everything] 3 new answers― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:15 (43 minutes ago) Bookmark
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 21:15 (43 minutes ago) Bookmark
well done
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm not brave enough to look under the cut, yall heard abt kenneth cole's tweet from this morning tho right?
"Millions are in uproar in #Cairo. Rumor has it they heard our new spring collection is now online. --KC"
the KC signifying it's not a PR intern but the man himself
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Some intern in Chelsea is in a lot of trouble.
― A double shot of Sesame Street (Eazy), Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
he must step down immediately
― goole, Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
― caek, Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
― caek, Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
― caek, Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 February 2011 22:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
wow
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
hey remember a couple days ago when i was all "ha its so weird how ppl are talking about this media blackout leading to a crackdown, i don't think i buy it, its so conspiratorial"
fuck
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 3 February 2011 23:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
― A double shot of Sesame Street (Eazy), Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:09 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
it was actually kenneth cole himself!
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 3 February 2011 23:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
This guy is posting audio of conversations w/ people in Egypt: http://twitter.com/#!/jan25voices
― The Reverend, Friday, 4 February 2011 01:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
obama admin. quietly pressing for mubarak to exit now, and for broad constitutional reform and free elections.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 4 February 2011 04:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
way too quietly given the circumstances imo
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 4 February 2011 04:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
If they were doing it quietly, we wouldn't know about it, at least not yet.
― The Reverend, Friday, 4 February 2011 04:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
fairly stated
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 4 February 2011 05:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
cnn showing some horrific shit, just showed a tape of a fire truck plowing into a crowd and running over a handful of people at a high rate of speed. same thing happened with an civilian opposition forces truck.
― omar little, Friday, 4 February 2011 07:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
soooo things going well so far today...?
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 February 2011 16:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
not really apropos to what's happening now but damn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farouk_of_Egypt
Farouk was widely condemned for his corrupt and ineffectual governance, the continued British occupation, and the Egyptian army's failure to prevent the loss of 78% of Palestine to the newly formed State of Israel in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Public discontent against Farouk rose to new levels.[citation needed] In the CIA, the project to overthrow King Farouk, known internally known as "Project FF [Fat Fucker]"[6], was initiated by CIA operative Kermit Roosevelt, Jr. The CIA was disappointed in King Farouk for not improving the functionality and usefulness of his government [7] and had supported the coup d'état against King Farouk by not opposing the efforts of the free officers to overthrow him.[8] Finally, on 23 July 1952, the Free Officers Movement under Muhammad Naguib and Gamal Abdel Nasser staged a military coup that launched the Egyptian Revolution of 1952.
― goole, Friday, 4 February 2011 16:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
fucking kermit roosevelet
― max, Friday, 4 February 2011 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
goole have you ever read all the shahs men
no!
― goole, Friday, 4 February 2011 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
there was an interesting blog post in that al jazeera feed about how the underlying issue in all this is really civilian oversight of the military
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 February 2011 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
recommended! its about how kermit roosevelt jr, basically all by himself, took out mossadegh and installed the shah of iran. its like a cracking, deeply infuriating spy novel.
― max, Friday, 4 February 2011 16:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Project FF [Fat Fucker]"
ah the CIA of the 50s
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 February 2011 16:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
cool max i'll look out for that
― goole, Friday, 4 February 2011 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah that fucker had his finger in a lot of cia imperialist pies
― max, Friday, 4 February 2011 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
NY Times:Live television footage of Cairo's central Tahrir Square resumed Friday, but it appeared that some foreign journalists were still being detained, and fresh reports of attacks on reporters and news organizations suggested that the effort to stifle the flow of news out of Egypt had slowed but not ended.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 4 February 2011 17:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
a bunch of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Int'l people are missing and reportedly being held by the army in the burbs somewhere
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 February 2011 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
Kermit sure got around but let's be fair, the combination of Farouk, the Wafd and the British was just too much for Egyptian nationalism to bear after awhile.
the underlying issue in all this is really civilian oversight of the military
This what is depressing me. The military have ruled Egypt since its independence and I find it hard to believe they'll give that up, though they may be fine w/getting rid of Mubarak if they have to.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 4 February 2011 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
The military have ruled Egypt since its independence and I find it hard to believe they'll give that up, though they may be fine w/getting rid of Mubarak if they have to.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, February 4, 2011 12:33 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
im sure theres a lot true abt that but were it totally accurate mubarak would already be gone no - no one ever fully controls anything much less a lol hueg complex country - this display of people power and its resultant chaos is a real threat to everyone w/a vested interest
― ice cr?m, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
From the New Yorker:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/02/inside-and-outside-tahrir-square.html
The protesters who had been fighting on that corner for two days were grimy but happy; they ate a breakfast of cheap rough country baladi bread and foil-covered triangles of Laughing Cow cheese. Mohammed Gazi, a chemist, wanted the world to know that they were not eating “Kentucky”—a reference to taunts from the pro-Mubarak people about Kentucky Fried Chicken, meaning that the protesters were being fed by the America and the West.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak would already be gone no
Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak all had to play internal politics to get to the top but as military men, even if not toppled by a coup, they're susceptible to the argument that they need to either fall on their sword or get pushed into falling on their sword for the good of the military and the country.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 4 February 2011 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
My friend's wife (an Italian reporter) was detained, questioned , had her camera seized, but was thankfully released in the past hour.
― President Keyes, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
Farouk was widely condemned for his corrupt and ineffectual governance
guy knew how to party though
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 4 February 2011 18:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
no kentucky jus loling cow nbd - btw i saw a picture of some bandaged but resilient protestors earlier and was struck by how old they were - it was like 10 fully middle aged guys out there mixing it up - impressive!
― ice cr?m, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Is that guy wearing a Gunners' jacket?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 4 February 2011 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egyptian FA suspends football indefinitely
― gtfopocalypse (dan m), Friday, 4 February 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
xxp Some protester a couple days back was talking about having to physically drag away an elderly professor who was throwing rocks at the front lines by the 6th of October bridge.
― The Reverend, Friday, 4 February 2011 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
so now that egypt is grabbing all the headlines, i have no idea what's going on in Tunisia now.
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 4 February 2011 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mohamed Beltagui, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, the outlawed Islamist group that had been the major opposition in Egypt until the secular youth revolt, said that the organization would not run a candidate in any election to succeed Mr. Mubarak as president.
He said his members wanted to rebut Mr. Mubarak’s argument to the West that his iron-fisted rule was a crucial bulwark against Islamic extremism. “It is not a retreat,” he said in an interview at the group’s informal headquarters in the square. “It is to take away the scare tactics that Hosni Mubarak uses to deceive the people here and abroad that he should stay in power.”
smart positioning here
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 February 2011 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wow, that is amazing. Good for them.
― Mordy, Friday, 4 February 2011 21:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's really rather breathtaking how politically shrewd these demonstrations have been, especially without any kind of leadership or structure - the protesters seem to instinctively know precisely which positions will reinforce their leverage (secular, non violent, inclusive), and carefully avoided tactics that would allow them to be more easily demonized. really ingenious almost every step of the way.
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 February 2011 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Otm.
― jim b?m (The Reverend), Friday, 4 February 2011 21:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
That's the advantage of having an educated, cosmopolitan middle class that is separate from the ruling establishment. Seems like Saudi Arabia and other emirates don't really have that. Makes this kind of revolution less likely, I imagine.
― Super Cub, Friday, 4 February 2011 22:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703652104576121663451288944.html
crazy story -- imromptu government among the protesters occupying tahrir square, and the somewhat mysterious presence and actions of the military in all this
― goole, Friday, 4 February 2011 22:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
the whole thing is somewhat mysterious, firstly i hope egypt gets an improved government, after that i really want to know wtf exactly happened
― ice cr?m, Friday, 4 February 2011 22:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
first reporter killed: http://cpj.org/2011/02/press-attacks-cairo-reporter-dies.php
My colleague, along with four other members of the Malaysian press, were detained and questioned for two hours yesterday but are safe now, thankfully. One of their attackers was carrying a gun, the rest were armed with knives.
― Roz, Saturday, 5 February 2011 03:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://suziweissman.com/
listening to her show today and the first guest emphasized the caprice? (cant find the right word but its close) of successful revolutions he'd studied and how forensics on the exact whys whens and ways a given revolution goes down is usually harder than it seems if not close to impossible (in revolutions w/o a flashpoint event i'm assuming). he didn't get too much deeper than that in the short segment and you're probably asking from a less metaphysical/generic standpoint (hey it was on pacifica) but the comment jogged my memory
― urchin baylor (tremendoid), Saturday, 5 February 2011 06:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah that sounds abt right
― ice cr?m, Saturday, 5 February 2011 06:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
the NDP leadership resigned. suleiman wants to form an interim government with the prime minister and the defense minister and they're discussing "plans to remove [Mubarak] from the presidential palace". this from here.
i'm assuming an interim government led by an intelligence guy and featuring the secretary of defense is a valentine to the army.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 5 February 2011 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
the American envoy says Mubarak should stay for the time being. so i guess that's that..
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 5 February 2011 20:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Presumably/hopefully indicates a facesaving interregnum being plotted out in advance of elections. If so may be a not-bad outcome, though will be spun badly.
― Ismael Klata, Saturday, 5 February 2011 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
KCET in los angeles is airing the English Al Jazerra feed. they've just reported that an Egyptian gas plant was damaged by an explosion. This plant supplies 80% of the power to Jordan; and egypt will suspend power to Jordan for a week while repairs are made. Not good.
― Wiggywoo, Saturday, 5 February 2011 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
!!
― Z S, Saturday, 5 February 2011 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
If Jordan is relying on a single plant for 80% of their power, that was also "not good". Are there any articles about this you can link to? crazy.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112514224368313.html this one says 40%. either way, with Jordan getting all of it's gas from Egypt, the instability in Egypt will spread through the pipelines to Jordan.
― textbook blows on the head (dowd), Saturday, 5 February 2011 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh, ignore that - it says that 40% of Israel's imports come from Egypt. Need to stop skimming things.
― textbook blows on the head (dowd), Saturday, 5 February 2011 21:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
It sounds like this isn't that big of a deal. Gas supply can be rerouted and the damage is not that extensive. Apparently Jordan will not have a disruption in gas supply. There is some suggestion of sabotage though, which could be a troubling new chapter in this saga.
― Super Cub, Saturday, 5 February 2011 21:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
i was just walking through a kind of confused demonstration in downtown portland's pioneer square and one guy's sign said WE ARE ALL EGYPTIONS.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 5 February 2011 22:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
We are all Egyptrons
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 5 February 2011 23:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
ha ha!
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 5 February 2011 23:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sarah Palin weighs in on Obama's handling of the situation:
"And nobody yet has, nobody yet has explained to the American public what they know, and surely they know more than the rest of us know who it is who will be taking the place of Mubarak and no, not, not real enthused about what it is that that’s being done on a national level and from D.C. in regards to understanding all the situation there in Egypt."
I love when she gets quoted word for word.
― Z S, Sunday, 6 February 2011 03:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
i have a headache just from reading that quote
― http://i56.tinypic.com/xnsu1g.gif (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 6 February 2011 04:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
Singing it to a tune probably helps.
― textbook blows on the head (dowd), Sunday, 6 February 2011 07:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
It sounds like the White House is going to be fine with a slow shift to an interim government. It may take until September which of course is what Mubarak wants but not the protestors (Mubarak and his supporters say that he constitutionally can't leave until then!).
― curmudgeon, Monday, 7 February 2011 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
On the radio program Democracy Now they said tha the Egyptian government is now making press people register with them in order to go to the square.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 7 February 2011 15:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak and his supporters say that he constitutionally can't leave until then
Do I favor polling booths over street protests? Yes, but the weakness in Mubarak's position is that he blatantly fudged the results in at least the last two elections.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Monday, 7 February 2011 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yes. I wish the White House would have pushed for a compromise date--halfway between now and September,say. We'll see how this all plays out.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 7 February 2011 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
― curmudgeon, Monday, February 7, 2011 10:42 AM (5 hours ago)
if the "president" resigns, the speaker of the parliament acts as the caretaker president until new elections take place, within a timeframe not to exceed 60 days, i think. elbaradei and other protest leaders have suggested suspending the constitution (which they consider pretty much invalid anyway) for up to a year while parties are allowed to form, etc, since 60 days is a pretty short amount of time given the circumstances.* as far as i can tell, none of the american leaders have given this much acknowledgement
*god if only our election seasons could last "only" 60 days over here
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Monday, 7 February 2011 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
Huge crowds today.
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 13:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
AJE is reporting that 20 Egyptian lawyers have filed a petition with the Prosecutor General against Mubarak for stealing public funds. I can't find any article about this yet.
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 13:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
As the authorities and protesters struggle to grasp the see-sawing initiative in Egypt’s 15-day-old revolt, the government of President Hosni Mubarak unveiled a new package of pledges on Tuesday, saying there would be no retribution for young people embroiled in the uprising and insisting that a process of reform was “on the right path.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/09/world/middleeast/09egypt.html?hp
Delay, delay, delay with tacit US support
Vice President Omar Suleiman of Egypt says he does not think it is time to lift the 30-year-old emergency law that has been used to suppress and imprison opposition leaders. He does not think President Hosni Mubarak needs to resign before his term ends in September. And he does not think his country is yet ready for democracy.
There are risks in the administration’s go-slower approach on Egypt.But, considering it lacks better options, the United States has strongly backed him to play the pivotal role in a still uncertain transition process in Egypt. In doing so, it is relying on the existing government to make changes that it has steadfastly resisted for years, and even now does not seem impatient to carry out. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/world/middleeast/08diplomacy.html?hp
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 14:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
this TV interview with Wael is kind of bonkers
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
the US public is broadly behind the protestors
http://www.gallup.com/poll/File/145991/Egypt_New_Poll_Feb_07_2011.pdf
24. Overall, are you sympathetic or unsympathetic to the protestors in Egypt who have called for a change in the government?Are you very [sympathetic/unsympathetic] or only somewhat [sympathetic/unsympathetic]?
Very sympathetic 42Somewhat sympathetic 40Somewhat unsympathetic 6Very unsympathetic 5No opinion 6
― goole, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
however, i guess the muslim-scary stuff is working on the quarter of population in the bubble:
25. From what you have heard or know about the situation in Egypt, all in all, do you think the political changes that are occurring will be mostly good or mostly bad for – [A-B READ IN ORDER]?2011 Feb 2-5A. The country of EgyptMostly good 66Mostly bad 19No opinion 14
B. The United StatesMostly good 60Mostly bad 26No opinion 13
― goole, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
some different interpretations of events here...
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/02/08/suleiman/index.html
"Given the long-obvious fact that the Obama administration has been working to install Suleiman as interim leader as a (dubious) means of placating citizen anger..."
http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/08/obama_ajusts_on_egyptian_change
"Despite the rapid consensus that Suleiman has been designated as America's man in this process, any acceptance of his role is likely by default rather than design. The administration clearly does not want to allow Suleiman and Mubarak to revert to the status quo ante, or to consolidate a new nakedly military regime."
― goole, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
the long-obvious fact
lol @ calling a week "long obvious"
― bien-pensant vibe (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm interested in the ~6% of respondents who think that the changes are good for Egypt but bad for the US -- who are they? Neocons? Realists?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Pirates of the Caribbean V: Letters of Marque & Reprisal (Phil D.), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm interested in the ~6% of respondents who think that the changes are good for Egypt but bad for the US -- who are they? Neocons? Realists?― Mordy, Tuesday, February 8, 2011 6:47 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Mordy, Tuesday, February 8, 2011 6:47 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark
no-one has a clue what the effect will be for the US. was 'negligible' a possible answer?
― the most revered deity in the universe (history mayne), Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
come now, you know this whole thing's about the US
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
tbh, knowing the USA that 6% are probably respondents who forgot what they were being asked about halfway through the interview
― Mordy, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Speaking of it being all about the US, I see in a Washington Post editorial that a Egypt working group made up of moderate Dems and neo-con Republicans like E. Abrams who profess to want democracy around the world, are complaining that Obama's State Department is not encouraging Mubarak to move faster on leaving and instituting reforms.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/08/AR2011020805786.html?sub=AR
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 13:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
No surprise that the media is also reporting that Israel, Jordan and Saudia Arabia are all pressuring the US to move slow with its political efforts in Egypt.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 15:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/67351/joshua-stacher/egypts-democratic-mirage
Despite the tenacity, optimism, and blood of the protesters massed in Tahrir Square, Egypt's democratic window has probably already closed.
Contrary to the dominant media narrative, over the last ten days the Egyptian state has not experienced a regime breakdown. The protests have certainly rocked the system and have put Mubarak on his heels, but at no time has the uprising seriously threatened Egypt's regime. Although many of the protesters, foreign governments, and analysts have concentrated on the personality of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, those surrounding the embattled president, who make up the wider Egyptian regime, have made sure the state's viability was never in question. This is because the country's central institution, the military, which historically has influenced policy and commands near-monopolistic economic interests, has never balked.
― goole, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
and with Israel, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, et al urging "restraint," it ain't bloody likely.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
think they would rather have bread than freedom tbh
― sleeve, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Btw, that guy's in Yemen, not Egypt.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
Recent Krugman column connected the steep rise in food prices, especially wheat (think: bread), with the widespread unrest in the middle east. He then connected the steep rise in food prices to crop failures and reduced yields caused by extreme weather events. He then connected these weather events with global climate change.
Thank you, Paul Krugman. Someone needs to be saying these things out loud in the media. He's the only one I can think of, offhand.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
given the level of unrest/strikes/riots still going on in Egypt dunno if stacher is really right there
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 20:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Wael Ghonim: This is no longer the time to negotiate, unfortunately. We went on the street on the 25th, and we wanted to negotiate, we wanted to talk to our government. We were, you know knocking the door. They decided to negotiate with us at night, with rubber bullets, with police sticks, with water hoses, with teargas, tanks and with arresting about 500 people.... Thanks, you know, we got the message.
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Xpost, krugman's drawing from Joe Romm (Climate Progress), who has been repeatedly drawing attention to the issue in recent weeks, who in turn has been pointing to Lester Brown (earth policy institute, food/climate expert), but yeah, ad usual no one is willing to make the connection.
I think people are hesitant to do it because look what happened to Krugman: the Atlantic immediately ran the headline "Paul Krugman blames global warming for middle east uprisings"
In fact, Krugman presented a nuanced argument, that climate change was likely a contributing factor, and unfortunately a factor that will be impacting food production more and more as time passes since, you know, we're not doing anything about it.
― this is the internet! gifs are the final word! (Z S), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i read that article and liked it but sort of half-prepared myself for exactly what you say the Atlantic did
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 9 February 2011 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
light is shed on the protest organizers http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/10/world/middleeast/10youth.html
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 06:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
King warned Obama Saudi could fund Egypt
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 10 February 2011 11:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
that headline is
strange
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 10 February 2011 13:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
There was a ":paper" at the end which made it even worse. It refers to today's time front page story but that is behind a paywall.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 10 February 2011 13:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
US internet memes go global
― Pirates of the Caribbean V: Letters of Marque & Reprisal (Phil D.), Thursday, 10 February 2011 14:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
BREAKING NEWS10:32 AM ET Egyptian Army Officers Are Meeting to Discuss Taking Over Government, State TV Reports
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 15:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Murbarak quits tonight
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576136101983949120.html
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 February 2011 15:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
question i guess is to what extent the military are willing to yield to reform and how the protestors react
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
AP: military commander for Cairo area, told 1000s of protesters in Tahrir Square: "All your demands will be met today"
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
lmao via @hoosteen
AriFleischer Ari Fleischer If I were an Egyptian protester, I'd be careful of saying "Mission Accomplished" too soon...26 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
i guess Mubarak isn't a big Foreign Policy reader
― Mordy, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
amazing. so awesome.
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
it is!
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Except, like always, it's just the miltary making sure that their poltical liability goes away. What are the chances Egypt will really get a truly democratic regime where the Emergency Law is gone and the Mukhabarat are disbanded or at least disempowered and restrained?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think theyll get something, as far as ~truly democratic~ not likely, tho who knows theres an opening which is more than before
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
whats up w/grabbing this guys head
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
itll be interesting to see across the middle east the effect of egypt/tunisia acting as a proof of concept - will these governments be able to put the genie back in the bottle
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
What are the chances Egypt will really get a truly democratic regime
Probably about the chance any of us will anywhere -- not terribly likely. But any kind of representation is better than no kind of representation.
― Mordy, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
What are the chances Egypt ends up like Turkey used to be, "democratic" with a military that acted with impunity
― just woke up (lukas), Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
itd be a big improvement
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
If there is a tacit understanding, as there was under the Ataturk regime, that 'this is the system you get, guaranteed by the Army, and here's how representative it will be' and they stick to those rules, it will at least assure the ppl that the regime is sticking to its rules.
The same problem besets Iran; they fake elections, eschew any kind of accountability for their excesses, blame 'foreign spies', etc...
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
"truly democratic"
― am0n, Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I can't think of a single country that is "truly democratic" lol
I am cheering improvement here, not the attainment of perfection
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
you could replace 'truly democratic' w/'liberal democracy' if that helps
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
Okay, fine, let's not quibble over what is 'truly democratic', let's just say a regime where there is enough freedom of assembly to form parties, fair enough elections that they are properly represented in the Majlis Al-Sha-ab, a chance to get rid of the 1980 constitutional amendment which gives the President 88 votes in the Al-Shura and some kind of fair balance btw civilian and military auhtority.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also some kind of real habeas corpus.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
well I am hopeful for all those things. but we'll see.
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
true, the protestors would grow old and gray in that square waiting for the military to cede power. will take decades.
― just woke up (lukas), Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
^ yeah, i'd agree with that, but that's fine in a historical sense.
just talking out my ass here, in order for liberalism to take hold and be a force to be reckoned with in a society, a constituency of liberals has to grow. the events of the past few days point to a lot of bottled up energy in egypt for such a thing but it's hard to know numbers, and decades of emergency/military/autocratic rule means there aren't any other institutions to turn to
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Frankly, giving the military their due maybe the only guarantor of liberalism, perhaps more so than democracy.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
O RLY? Egypt's army 'involved in detentions and torture'
― The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah didn't mean to snark, this is a real improvement. xpost
what army isn't involved with that
― just woke up (lukas), Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
there are plenty of countries that have made transitions from authoritarian gov'ts to better ones, all people want to talk about is iran or maybe turkey. there are plenty of latin american examples... pinochet still has his defenders!
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:00 PM
liberal! u mean moonbat!?!?
― am0n, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's a little fractured, what i meant is that the 'bad regime' never really disappears because there are always people left who loved it.
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egypt Charges Government Figures with Corruption
Egypt's state prosecutor has launched a corruption investigation against three former government ministers and a member of parliament from Egypt's ruling National Democratic party, as protesters in Cairo's Tahrir Square continued anti-government demonstrations for a 17th day.
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Egypt-Charges-Government-Figures-with-Corruption-115720774.html
― am0n, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:25 AM
― ice cr?m, Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:28 AM
― am0n, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
like the CIA guy said to Charlie Wilson, "We'll see."
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
morbs just outed himself as a company man, knew it!
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
morbius did 9/11!
― am0n, Thursday, 10 February 2011 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
question i guess is to what extent the military are willing to yield to reform and how the protestors react― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 11:04 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 11:04 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I'm guessing the military will take a Turkish style role, with the threat of a coup hanging over the civil government if they stray too far from what they deem acceptable.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 10 February 2011 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
What they will always deem unacceptable is the kind of economic reform Egypt needs, alas.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
ironically there's an idea floating around out there that the regime flirted more and more with neoliberalism recently, but with an economy that is majority informal (!!) and there aren't clear lines of ownership of most of the land it's hard to know what that really meant or whether it was any good. there's a stock market! yaaay.
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
ignoring what's actually going to happen, it's totally obvious to me and hernando de soto that the ideal situation would just be to give legal title to the people that are already on the land (i don't know much about population distribution in egypt but i assume this would lead to pretty widespread land ownership.)
any alternative points of view here? it's such a kneejerk neoliberal response for me that i'm interested to have it tested.
― just woke up (lukas), Thursday, 10 February 2011 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
is anybody else watching CBS' live feed...? the size and scope of the tent village/protesters in the square is nuts
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
stock market's lost 25% since this all started. unsurprisingly it's worst performing stock market this year (dunno why mongolia's is the best)
― cozen, Thursday, 10 February 2011 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
Egypt's information minister has just told Reuters Mubarak "definitely not going to step down"
― cozen, Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sky are translating a supposed leaked draft from al Arabiya just now - it will be a timetable for change, plus tinkering with various minor articles of the constitution. If that's right, it's not what everyone's expecting.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
here we go
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
this fucking guy
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
― Volvo Twilight (p-dog), Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
watching on al jazeera english. politicians everywhere in all the fucking same shocker. shameless
― Volvo Twilight (p-dog), Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
not bothering watching the rest of this tbh
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
this is terrible
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
so more riots then eh
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
DEMONSTRATORS IN LIBERATION SQUARE WAVE THEIR SHOES AT HOSNI MUBARAK
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:55 PM
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
that could not have been more underwhelming
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
otm.
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
not at tv or real computer, what'd he end up saying?
― iatee, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm not stepping down, we'll amend this and that, here's two committees, violence will not be tolerated yadda yadda yadda
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
this dude is gonna end up with his head on a pike unless he gets the army to crush the opposition
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
mubarak says "psyche"
― plax (sotc) (cozen), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
doh
― iatee, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:38 PM
watching this now
― am0n, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
here are the bbc summaries/tweets:
2046: Mr Mubarak is live on state TV.
2046: Egypt is calling for a change, he says
2047: Promises to punish those who injured and killed protesters.
2048: Mubarak: I will not listen to diktats from abroad.
2050: Mubarak: I will not stand down until an elected government can take over.
2051: Mubarak: Looks forward to continuing to rule with the support of all of those people who are eager for the safety and stability of Egypt.
2052: Mubarak: Peaceful transfer of power will take place from now until September.
2057: As Mubarak continues to talk, it is now very clear that he will not be announcing his departure from power. He has made it clear he will stay on until September elections. It is highly unlikely this will go down well with the crowds gathered in Tahrir Square.
2105: Reports say Mr Mubarak is delegating power to his vice-president. It seems he is not stepping down, but he is handing some responsibilities to his deputy.
2107: Boos and jeers ring out from Tahrir Square. They're not happy.
2110: Egyptian academic Mamoun Fandy says Mr Mubarak's words "will not wash". He says: "These young people are too smart. I don't know whether the disaster will start tonight or tomorrow, but we're in for a huge confrontation. Whoever wrote that speech is living in a bubble."
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Worsening crowd reaction reminded me of a hip hop gig where the promoter comes on three hours late to explain why the headliner is still en route from the airport.
― DL, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
maybe it was bbc sound mixing, but the crowd went nuts around the middle of the speech, the rest was a lot of nationalist-sounding stuff, i wonder if any of them heard it.
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
that speech came across like his new strategy was to try to bore everyone in tahrir sq into going home. legalese accountant-type shit about articles and amendments, thought he was gonna start talking about spreadsheets, veering into a self-aggrandising potted autobiography like a senile father of the bride? christ. this fucking guy.
also lol deja vu, it was a fortnight ago i first sat down to watch what would surely be mubarak's resignation speech only to gradually realise that it was gonna be no such thing
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
al jaz subtitles briefly confused me by saying he'd transferred power to suleiman - turned out he'd just delegated a few duties to him. why even bother making concessions if they're gonna be that inadequate
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
ha i was just about to accuse you of biting dorian off twitter when i realised it's your new username! i loled.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
lex otm
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/stratfor-reports-mubarak-has-already-left-country-speech-prerecorded
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
vaguely depressing how the outcome is dependent, i guess, on the army. talking of whom when are they going to get off the fence? am i wrong, or does no one really know what they're going to do or what side they're on?
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
2115: Full quotes from Mr Mubarak's speech: "I was a young man as well when I joined the military and pledged to the nation and sacrificed to the nation. I spent my life defending Egypt's life and sovereignty. The best days of my life were when I raised the flag of Egypt over the Sinai and when I flew plans [planes?] in Addis Ababa. There was no day when I was affected or gave in to foreign pressure."
2116: Another quote from Mr Mubarak's speech: "I believe that the majority of Egyptians know who Hosni Mubarak is and it pains me what has been expressed by some people from my own country. I am aware of the dangers facing us and out of my belief that Egypt is going through a very significant phase in its history, this compels us all to put the interests of the nation first and put Egypt above any consideration."
2119: Lina Wardani, a journalist from al-Ahram newspaper who is in Tahrir Square, tells the BBC: "There is extreme disappointment in Tahrir tonight. This was not the speech the nation was waiting for and was certainly not the speech the protesters in Tahrir were waiting for. Right now there seems to be confusion. There are a lot of people walking out of the square very disappointed, you have more people saying they are leaving right now but just getting a good night's sleep before they come back tomorrow for another very long, very large protest ."
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
guess i don't have to do that but some ppl said they couldn't get any live streams
it's appriciated!
― iatee, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
imagine if Gordon Brown had tried to cling on after the election last year, he might have delivered a speech like that
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Now trending: http://twitter.com/#!/search/Ceausescu
― Pisle of dogs (seandalai), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
(if oddly misspelled)
― Pisle of dogs (seandalai), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's the right spelling? unless you want the thingy under the s (genuine shame that i don't know what it's called BRB)
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh it's still called a cedilla if it's under the s
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ha, you're right - I assumed it was Ceaucescu for some reason (I guess the way the name is usually pronounced in English) and I saw someone else saying it was a misspelling. Obv need to factcheck before spellchecking in future.
― Pisle of dogs (seandalai), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm amazed. I've seen Twitter trending topics misspell much easier names than that.
― DL, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
Looks like the crowd is headed toward the state TV building. Suleyman is speaking.
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
'youth and heroes of egypt, please go back home, go back to work'
'do not listen to what foreign media tell you, they want to harm egypt [i think], listen to your conscience'
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think the only ex-prez Obama could put on the phone w/ Mubi now is Nixon. They should've frozen him.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
i trust everyone on twitter is following @bencnn right? by far the best to keep one informed
xps oh my fucking god, seriously? this is why installing suleiman as prez is not remotely a solution either
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ha Morbs.
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
2138: Full quote from Mr Suleiman: "The 25 January movement has succeeded in making a change in the party of democracy, history has begun. Constitutional decisions have been taken, commissions were formed to implement what the president decided in terms of directives in his 1 February speech. What the president announced today stresses once again his national feeling and his siding with the legitimate demands of the people and his commitment to the many pledges he made in the past. It also proves his awareness of the seriousness of the situation that Egypt is going through. The president had put the supreme interests of the people above everything else."
2141: It's doubtful anyone in Tahrir Square heard Mr Suleiman's speech - the noise of chants and horns is deafening.
2143: Mamoun Mandy (see entry at 2110) tells the BBC: "This is the first time I've been convinced that the people around Mubarak gave him a distorted image of what has been going on on the ground. On the ground, you'd never remotely think that speech was acceptable. It was written from a pre-25 January world which has no connection with what's going on on the ground. I am so worried about the future of this city. Mubarak's regime has only a few hours to decide: is it Mubarak or Egypt? If they do not accept the demands of the people, I think we are in for something really ugly tonight."
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh wait it's not a cedilla! it's a virgula, which looks almost identical.
Several languages add a comma (virgula) to some letters, such as ș, which looks like a cedilla, but is more precisely a diacritical comma. This is particularly confusing with letters which can take either diacritic: for example, the consonant /ʃ/ is written as "ş" in Turkish but "ș" in Romanian, and Romanian writers will sometimes use the former instead of the latter because of insufficient font or character-set support.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
A week ago I was thinking, uh oh, here comes another Romania, and then I thought, nah. But now I think, well, maybe. Personally, I'd like to see a reality show featuring several former Arab heads of state exiled to a house in Saudi Arabia.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
King Abdullah gets in a fight with Hosni over who has to clean the bathroom
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
x-post Fun fact: I once (literally) stumbled into an open house at the EU headquarters in Belgium. The English language tour group we were stuck in was mostly Romanians, because apparently Romanian is one of the hardest languages to translate so when in doubt the EU usually just defaults to English.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
speaking of Romania, I think one of the key differences here is that what really did Ceaucescu in was the the upper military turned against him - Gen. Stanculescu (who grabbed Ceaucescu, put him on trial, and had him shot) was Ceaucescu's Deputy Minister of Defense up until 3 days before the "trial". The only people who stayed loyal to Ceaucescu were the secret police. It isn't really clear how enamored of Mubarak Egypt's military command is, but I don't think they'll be complicit in his trial and murder. Maybe they'll just let a mob do it, but I dunno...
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
(btw the only reason I know that is because I am reading Sebestyen's "1989" right now - loads of crazy parallels)
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
seems the military has a lot to gain by pulling him out of there, unless they really think they can put this whole thing back in the box
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
i've stumbled into a bit of a wikipedia hole. didn't know that ceauşescu's daughter zoia was a mathematician, and that she died of lung cancer a month after her playboy brother died of cirrhosis. (their other brother is a physicist, and still alive.)
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
not that they need my approval but these protestors are so incredibly impressive--cant even count the number of times over the last two weeks when i thought "this is probably it, everyone will go home now," and they just stuck it out
― max, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well, the question is what happens when he outright orders them to fire on protestors. They said they wouldn't, but he also hasn't told them to yet. If he does and they go the full Iran, this revolt will go into remission. If they don't, then it's more or less over.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mohamed ElBaradei: "Egypt will explode. Army must save the country now"
― polyphonic, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
it seems like there's also an internal split in the army between the actual conscripted troops and the upper echelons of command. at least, that's what it seems like.
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think this whole leaning on "foreign elements" angle is a total PR failure - it will irritate/enrage more than it will persuade. it's like he's telling the millions of protesters they're all dupes of Hezbollah or the US or something.
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's telling that they're playing this 'foreign spies/powers aspect' so much. It's a country repeatedly humiliated by the Turks, the French, the Brits, their own feckless puppet monarchy, and the Israelis (not to mention siding w/the USSR for a while) and this stuff is fresh enough in the minds of ppl like Mubarak (especially in his coccoon) to actually start to believe his own bullshit. Considering the possibility for mischief in Egypt (esp. in his own mind), he may have convinced himself he's doing something for the long term good of the country. Considering what I've ssen in the demonstrations, the strikes, the cross-overs from his own media and his own govmt., (and considering the fact that I think he's certainly pissed on the constitution not only through ludicrous election results but myriad other whims and bits of cynicism) I think HE is the biggest obstacle to peace, prosperity, stability and progress.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
― max, Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:23 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
"foreign elements" angle is a total PR failure
The kids are not only savvy enoug but they don't come from the generation that remembers the Brits. They may resent US tutelage of the army but right now they just want the old guard to get tf out of the way already.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, max, whatever happens, I will always admire the dedication and patriotism of the protesters.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
The kids are not only savvy enoug but they don't come from the generation that remembers the Brits.
also am pretty sure the kids' memories do stretch back as far as a fortnight ago, when pretty much none of the triggers for their own uprising came from the west
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
2243: CNN's Ivan Watson tweets: "Sameh Shoukry, Egyptian Ambassador to US on CNN: Mubarak "transferred all powers under the constitution to the Vice President."
2246: The ambassador says Mr Suleiman is now the "de facto head of state"
well, that's cleared up!
bit putinish innit
― goole, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't want to get too caught up with the 24 hr news cycle but this 'breaking news' on CNN-
Egypt's ambassador to the U.S. tells CNN that Egyptian Vice President Omar Suleiman is de facto head of state.
-leaves me o_O. Does anybody in the govmt really know wtf is going on?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
A la Putin, you can be an eminence grise, but de facto head of state isn't going to mean much to most other states. Not that they won't confer with Suleiman, but he ain't the head of state while Mubarak's still hanging around.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Good take:
http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/10/responding_to_the_worst_speech_ever
― polyphonic, Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's something to do with a (mis)translation - http://twitter.com/bencnn/status/35824108939776000 -
Mubarak said was transferring "salahiyat" - "powers" to the vice president. without the use of the definite article it means "some powers"
- and i haven't seen it cleared up whether he said one or the other
― lex pretend, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Speaking to Al Jazeera English moments ago, Hossam El-Hamalawy, a blogger and activist, suggested that the military could be divided. He said that the fact units of the presidential guard, not the regular army, are now reportedly guarding state television and the presidential palace could be an indication of an internal split.
if the bulk of the military splits from some elite guard that's loyal to Mubarak/Suleiman... shit is gonna go down
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
that's a good piece of info there
― sleeve, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Seems like the basic strategy at this point for Mubarak & Co. is to say, "Oh, you wonderful protestors! See, you have won and we will do everything you want; and btw, we will do it our way, by our rules, and at our liesure. So, you can go home now and savor your victory."
― Aimless, Friday, 11 February 2011 01:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
2006 article that's worth revisiting now
In the summer of 2006, after pressing the Egyptian government for more than a year to restart the country’s nuclear power program, the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s foremost political opposition force, escalated its nuclear goals and openly called for Egypt to develop nuclear weapons as a counter to Israel’s nuclear capabilities. Against this background, the group reacted with little enthusiasm to the mid-september announcement by Jamal Mubarak, son of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, that Egypt would revive its peaceful nuclear power – without declaring that Egypt would build a nuclear deterrent. (See “Renewed Egyptian Ambitions for a Peaceful Nuclear Program” in this issue of WMD Insights.) In 2005, revival of the Egyptian nuclear power program had been a rallying cry for the Muslim Brotherhood. In its 2005 parliamentary election platform, for example, it had declared that under its leadership, Egypt would develop “special national programs, such as the nuclear program, the space and aviation program, armaments program, and the bio-technology program.” The party, which currently holds roughly one fifth of the seats in the Egyptian National Assembly (the lower house of the Egyptian parliament), used the nuclear issue to challenge the current Egyptian government, which had shown little interest in nuclear energy, unlike a number of states in the region, including Iran and Turkey. By May 17, 2006, Brotherhood deputies were openly attacking the Mubarak government for not pursuing an active nuclear program. Ikhwanonline, the official website of the Muslim Brotherhood, stated that Brotherhood “deputies accuse the government of abandoning the nuclear program and [being content with not] building atomic power plants for peaceful purposes and electricity production at the same time many other countries such as India advanced in this field.” (India has not only developed nuclear power for electricity production, but used its peaceful nuclear program as a stepping stone to develop nuclear weapons.)Despite this initial focus on peaceful nuclear energy, at a July 4, 2006, joint meeting of the foreign affairs, Arab, defense, and national security committees of the Egyptian parliament, Dr. Hamdi Hassan, spokesperson of the Muslim Brotherhood parliamentary caucus, made clear that his organization was interested not merely in using nuclear power for meeting Egypt’s energy needs, but in creating an Egyptian nuclear deterrent: “We Egyptians are ready to starve in order to own a nuclear weapon that will represent a real deterrent and will be decisive in the Arab-Israeli conflict.”
In 2005, revival of the Egyptian nuclear power program had been a rallying cry for the Muslim Brotherhood. In its 2005 parliamentary election platform, for example, it had declared that under its leadership, Egypt would develop “special national programs, such as the nuclear program, the space and aviation program, armaments program, and the bio-technology program.” The party, which currently holds roughly one fifth of the seats in the Egyptian National Assembly (the lower house of the Egyptian parliament), used the nuclear issue to challenge the current Egyptian government, which had shown little interest in nuclear energy, unlike a number of states in the region, including Iran and Turkey.
By May 17, 2006, Brotherhood deputies were openly attacking the Mubarak government for not pursuing an active nuclear program. Ikhwanonline, the official website of the Muslim Brotherhood, stated that Brotherhood “deputies accuse the government of abandoning the nuclear program and [being content with not] building atomic power plants for peaceful purposes and electricity production at the same time many other countries such as India advanced in this field.” (India has not only developed nuclear power for electricity production, but used its peaceful nuclear program as a stepping stone to develop nuclear weapons.)
Despite this initial focus on peaceful nuclear energy, at a July 4, 2006, joint meeting of the foreign affairs, Arab, defense, and national security committees of the Egyptian parliament, Dr. Hamdi Hassan, spokesperson of the Muslim Brotherhood parliamentary caucus, made clear that his organization was interested not merely in using nuclear power for meeting Egypt’s energy needs, but in creating an Egyptian nuclear deterrent: “We Egyptians are ready to starve in order to own a nuclear weapon that will represent a real deterrent and will be decisive in the Arab-Israeli conflict.”
(article continues at link)
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 11 February 2011 04:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
not that they need my approval but these protestors are so incredibly impressive--cant even count the number of times over the last two weeks when i thought "this is probably it, everyone will go home now," and they just stuck it out― max, Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:23 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Same here.
Something that's become clear to me over the last week or so is that this isn't just some "spontaneous" expression of the people. Some sui generis "NO MAS!" moment. If it were only that, the protestors would have gone home by now. This is the ultimate flowering of a long march towards dignity and self-respect that began with the Egyptian labour movement. The working classes have been practicing how to organize, how to strike, and how to sit in for the past six years.
During the first four years of the current strike wave, more than 1,900 strikes took place and an estimated 1.7 million workers were involved. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/10/trade-unions-egypt-tunisia
In 2008, for instance:
In a country where labor unrest was long thought to be a bigger threat than the demands of the urbanites now flooding the capital's Tahrir Square, El Mahalla el Kubra has long been a source of concern among officials. ... A nationwide protest against high food prices, unemployment and police torture that failed elsewhere exploded into violence on the streets here in 2008, inspiring a youth movement that eventually launched the effort to oust President Hosni Mubarak. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/09/world/la-fg-egypt-mahallah-20110209
The Tahrir protests, on the other hand, were much more of a middle-class phenomenon. Union members joined in but as individuals. However, now organized labor is joining the protests in an organized fashion. And this is really the final push. On Wednesday, Hossam El-Hamalawy said:
Over the past few weeks, since the start of the uprising, the workers have been taking part in the protests but as demonstrators only, not as part of the organised labour movement. They were engaging in independent actions. But now the mass strikes are starting, and we're seeing workers raise not only demands related to their economic rights, but also overtly political demands, and that changes everything. http://www.arabawy.org/
Now the strikes are everywhere:
Around 20,000 factory workers stayed away from work on Wednesday, demanding raise in salaries, Al Jazeera reported. http://gulfnews.com/news/region/egypt/labour-unions-boost-egyptian-protests-1.760011
And professionals have joined in:
Egypt is currently witnessing unprecedented labor and professional unrest in parallel to the popular uprising which has swept through the country since 25 January. http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/news/labor-professional-protests-join-popular-uprising
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 10:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
one thing I am loving are the endless rumours about where Mubarak is.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 11 February 2011 13:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Someone needs to Where's Waldo? him into one of those crowd scenes.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 February 2011 13:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
ok, this is BY FAR the best background overview i've read yet about why and how this is all happening:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/20112101030726228.html
originally from here - http://www.jadaliyya.com/
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 13:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
now NBC News is reporting that Mubarak has left Cairo. Gotta love the chutzpah after they reported he'd resign yesterday.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
AP & NYT reporting same.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Urgent and important statement due from the presidency..."
... not the president, don't know if that means anything
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
Here, from The Associated Press, is the complete text of a new statement issued on Friday by Egypt's Armed Forces Supreme Council, the second by the military in as many days:
In view of the ongoing events that will determine the future of the country, and in line with the continuous monitoring of the internal and external developments and the president's decision to delegate his power to the vice president, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces decides to guarantee the implementation of the following steps:
First:• Ending the state of emergency once the present circumstances end.• The outcome of the (court) appeals against the parliamentary election and the measures that will follow.•Implementation of the constitutional amendments and holding a free and fair presidential election in line with the agreed constitutional amendments.
Second:• The armed forces are committed to shepherding the legitimate demands of the people and strives with firmness and accuracy to ensure their implementation within a definitive timetable until the realization of a peaceful transition that produces the democratic society to which people aspire.
Third:• The armed forces stress that there will be no detention of the honorable sons of the nation who rejected corruption and demanded reform.• It [Egypt's military] stresses the importance of resuming work at government's services, the return of normal life in order to preserve the interests and the achievements of our great people.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
5:40pm Alaa Abdel Fatah says that the army have now given up and are letting the protesters control the flow of people around the state television building.
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 15:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sounds like Mubarak just stepped down!
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
He did!
This guy!
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Suleiman just gave a very brief announcement of it. Mubarak may have left Cairo for Sharm el-Sheik already.
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Aaaaaaaannnnnddddddd.... gone!
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
can i just wow
― Mordy, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Mubarak may have left Cairo for Sharm el-Sheik already." <~ Yes, he did.
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
― I, Mr. Sneer Joy (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Noodle Vague isn't here, so can I just speak for him, "Mubarak? Get tae fuck!"
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Incredible scenes at Tahrir Square... Huge celebrations.
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
good news everyone!
― ledge, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
!
― this is the internet! gifs are the final word! (Z S), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
details??????
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
You just never know whether you're coming or going with these brutal dictators
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
l8r
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
or if, in fact, anything has changed 'cept the occupant yet.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
sort of maximum humiliation, isn't it? like less than 24 hrs after saying "i'm staying"
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak gone, army in charge, that's all we know
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
incredible scenes on al jaz atm http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
― lex pretend, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
He just fled the capital, he didn't abdicate. imo
― StanM, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
now is suleiman going to go as well?
― lex pretend, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
Vice-President Suleiman: "In the name of God the merciful, the compassionate, citizens, during these very difficult circumstances Egypt is going through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to step down from the office of president of the republic and has charged the high council of the armed forces to administer the affairs of the country. May God help everybody."
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh, ok, he did then. thanks!
xpost -- "...especially me."
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
curious how (if) this will ripple throughout the "region".
― this is the internet! gifs are the final word! (Z S), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wowowowowow!
― max, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
― banjee trillness (The Reverend), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
From what they just said on TV, it sounds like his position no longer exists - that the Speaker becomes the (temporary) President. (Unless he was the Speaker)
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean everything i've read suggests the army was lining up for a coup if dude didn't peace, and i think m got spooked and peaced
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
and suleiman is just like 'guys, you guys'
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
how have i ONLY JUST REALISED that tahrir means liberation? o_0
― lex pretend, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Watching Al Jazeera right now is *goosebumps*
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/1/30/1233320352390/Andrei-Arshavin-002.jpg
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:21 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
can't be said enough
al-j stream down for me
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
someone yesterday was insisting to me that if mubarak falls, egypt will either collapse into chaos or into an even more aggressive, brutal, and now anti-west/anti-israel, dictatorship. hoping neither prediction is true, obv.; but this will be a tense transition.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 11 February 2011 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
― there is a lout that never goes "aight" (bernard snowy), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
daniel, read this - http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/20112101030726228.html
Micro-entrepreneurs, new workers' groups, and massive anti-police brutality organisations obviously do not share the same class position as Sawiris and Badrawi and the rich men in the "Council of the Wise". Nevertheless, there are significant overlaps and affinities between the interests and politics of nationalist development-oriented groups, the newly entrepreneurial military - and the vitally well-organised youth and women's social movements. This confluence of social, historical and economic dynamics will assure that this uprising does not get reduced to a photo opportunity for Suleiman and a few of his cronies.
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
someone yesterday was insisting to me that if mubarak falls, egypt will either collapse into chaos or into an even more aggressive, brutal, and now anti-west/anti-israel, dictatorship.
What happened after you turned Glenn Beck off?
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
the white house has made a statement that it will make a statement
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Understated.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
RT @mhegi: Uninstalling dictator COMPLETE - installing now: egypt 2.0: █░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░...
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
just now, interview on al-jazeera: "i now feel that anything is possible. I'm so proud"
oh delight
― the ipcress killfile (c sharp major), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
Or this is a coup?
(sorry)
― Citizen Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
yo egypt, i'm really happy for you and imma let you finish... but mubarak had one of the best dictatorships of all time
― there is a lout that never goes "aight" (bernard snowy), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
hehe xp
so cute!
― goole, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
He's always welcome to take over here in Belgium, we need a firm hand after all these failed government forming attempts.
― StanM, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
He has commissioned the armed forces council to direct the issues of the state.
Presumably he had little choice in that commissioning.
Still, round 1: protesters. But it's not over yet.
― Citizen Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
whos next!
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Was not expecting this! Was just interviewing a director you've all heard of, who'd visited Egypt 18 months ago; he said he could never have discerned/dreamed this kind of overthrow bubbling under.
― i'm going to be (sic) (suzy), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Something to finally unite the Flemish and the Walloons!
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
tracer: i will read that. ned: i cannot turn glenn beck off, ever.
btw, i now suspect dj/rupture is dr. morbius:
djrupture. Mubarak down, the people empowered. What would an American version of this look like?
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 11 February 2011 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sam Allardyce has thrown his hat into the ring for the vacancy.
― Matt DC, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Was just interviewing a director you've all heard of
Read that as 'dictator'
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
so glad we now know what a famous person we've all heard of thinks of this
― iatee, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/67371/khairi-abaza/uniting-egypts-opposition
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha ned me too
― there is a lout that never goes "aight" (bernard snowy), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ha ha, Ned! Awesome
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Friday, February 11, 2011 4:38 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
heh, me too
― lex pretend, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
kind of wish british people would stop with the "let's do this to cameron" comments, vaguely insulting comparison to draw
― lex pretend, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
an ilxor youve all heard of via facebook lmao
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
"let's just take a moment ... " good call dude
― just woke up (lukas), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hobnobbing down the Grouşescu club...
― ledge, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
suzy was it Than Shwe?
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
― lex pretend, Friday, February 11, 2011 4:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
me too!
― the ipcress killfile (c sharp major), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
You know who I'd really love to interview right now? Gaddafi.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
That's for damn sure.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
hah
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
genuinely hit refresh a couple of times on http://ismubarakstillpresident.com/ just for the :D of it
― the ipcress killfile (c sharp major), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
fwiw, me too (re: director/dictator)
― Death and Taxis (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
LOL if I interview a dictator, you'll know! I can't say who it is because my subject is embargoed until publication, but I am gleeful at having spent any time in the dude's company - anyone else here would have felt the same. And iatee? FYGWACS.
It's just worth mentioning as one of those odd occasions where you go to an appointment and the world seems a bit shit, and then you get home to discover it is marginally less so. Please don't embarrass anyone by making it about anything else.
― i'm going to be (sic) (suzy), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Genuine LOL. Still wouldn't want to be a member, tho.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
something i never quite twigged til today was about that $1.5B of American military aid. i always imagined this is a "gift" to Mubarak and the military - which it is - but it's also a gift to American military contractors! who do you think sells Egypt the weapons??
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
― i'm going to be (sic) (suzy), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's "recycled" back into American corporate hands, basically
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
and now you know why we send so much military aid to israel
― Mordy, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Daniel Esq: I have been in the same radio studio w/ DJ Rupture, we are different ppl.
"i now feel that anything is possible. I'm so proud"
Think I last heard this interview several times on Nov 4, 2008.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
if only we had been warned about the military-industrial complex
― max, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
pretty awesome having that egyptian lover track going on top of the bbc live feed
― goole, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
America's military socialism is more advanced than most other countries'.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
but we're about to make enormous cuts in the defense budget! CHANGE
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
hey morbz, maybe right now, at this particular moment in history, on this particular thread, you don't have to be such a cynical shit (or at least keep it to yourself)
― Mordy, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
morbs report
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
Mubarak supposedly secured $70B over the years for him and his family...
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha there are people on facebook doing the morbs sober wet blanket routine, do they really think no one has thought of these omg serious insights theyre offering
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
If he really wanted to secure his place in the hearts of his people, he should see if he could get permission to live in Israel.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha, i believe you, dr. m. i'm also jealous you got to meet dj/rupture.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 11 February 2011 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
I hear Mubarak has already packed up one of the pyramids and shipped it off to Switzerland.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
fine, Mordy and icey, y'all enjoy your butterscotch & lollipops moment.
(I believe Woody Allen calls such "shit" realism rather than cynicism. I hope there's democracy in Israel someday too btw.)
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
jesus im more cynical than most people here but sincerely FUCK OFF
― The image post from the hilarious "markers" internet persona (history mayne), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
do they have a statue to pull down?
buh-bye
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
You know what's funny? I've actually seen morbs smile irl.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
I pet doggies too.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
he is v pleasant imo
― ullr saves (gbx), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol, morbs never fails to disappoint
― don't make me go plop the trunk (J0rdan S.), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
no, morbs is right, this is exactly like when obama got elected. think about it: have you ever seen obama and the 1.25 million egyptian protestors in the same room together? no! i rest my case.
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
woody allen and many other people their points of view realism
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
BTW, Egypt seems to be a country that, like Thailand, finds orderly transition anathema/impossible. Naguib forced to resign. Nasser died suddenly in office to be succeeded by Sadat. Sadat is assassinated, then comes Mubarak (who surely would not have lasted 30 years without US backing). But I suppose that's a pretty typical post-colonial trend. Admittedly, in the grand scheme of things, this ongoing outcome seems less disruptive than some of its antecedents.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh great let's make another thread about morbz rmfe
― Mordy, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
we could just all sb him
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Josh, that's what makes THIS awesome. Who knows what it will turn into but for once a genuinely popular braodbased coalition of people actually changed the govmt. You could posit that the free officers were widely followed in '52 but this seems far more organic than that.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh, c'mon, ice...
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think every democracy has to have some kind of popular mythic element. maybe the brits don't, lol. it's always possible for things to go wrong, but i think the memory of this moment will reverberate and further politics will have to be grounded in it.
― goole, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Personally, I'm not cynical, but I am nervous.
As of now, we have a military government.
― Citizen Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Trying to guess what Kenneth Cole is thinking right about now.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
they, not we, obv
maybe the brits don't
Magna Carta, Civil War, Glorious Revolution, Chartists, Suffrage movmnt...
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
The man in charge now
― La descente infernale (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think every democracy has to have some kind of popular mythic element. maybe the brits don't, lol. it's always possible for things to go wrong, but i think the memory of this moment will reverberate and further politics will have to be grounded in it.― goole, Friday, February 11, 2011 5:11 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
― goole, Friday, February 11, 2011 5:11 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
the closest we have is the second world war and the transition to s.thing like social democracy that followed -- it used to be quite potent
the things MW mentions are a bit remote and the outcome of the civil war was sort of fucked up
― The image post from the hilarious "markers" internet persona (history mayne), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
State radio reported that Naguib Sawiris, a wealthy and widely respected businessman, has agreed to act as a mediator between the opposition and the authorities in carrying through the political reforms, a development that was cheered by protesters
NY Times
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
well that and the fact that there's still a queen ffs
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
Naguib Sawiris, the self-proposed chair of the "Transitional Council of Wise Men", is similar in some ways to Badrawy. Sawiris is a patriotic, successful nationalist businessman. Sawiris heads the largest private-sector company in Egypt, Orascom. This firm has built railways, beach resorts, gated-cities, highways, telecom systems, wind farms, condos and hotels. He is a major Arab world and Mediterranean region financier.He is also the banner carrier for Egypt's developmentalist nationalists. On February 4, Sawiris released a statement proposing a council of wise men who would oversee Suleiman and the police - and who would lead Egypt through the transition. The proposed council would be a so-called "neutral, technocratic" body that would include Sawiris, along with a couple of non-ideological members of the Muslim Brotherhood's business wing, some strategic-studies experts, and a Nobel Prize winner. Would this Nobel winner be Mohammed ElBaradei, the peace laureate and opposition leader? Nope. They had found an Egyptian laureate in organic chemistry.
He is also the banner carrier for Egypt's developmentalist nationalists. On February 4, Sawiris released a statement proposing a council of wise men who would oversee Suleiman and the police - and who would lead Egypt through the transition. The proposed council would be a so-called "neutral, technocratic" body that would include Sawiris, along with a couple of non-ideological members of the Muslim Brotherhood's business wing, some strategic-studies experts, and a Nobel Prize winner. Would this Nobel winner be Mohammed ElBaradei, the peace laureate and opposition leader? Nope. They had found an Egyptian laureate in organic chemistry.
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
They have a queen, Tracer, 'cause the last time they tried a republic Christmas got banned and theaters were closed.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Congrats to DJ /rupture for pulling down the statue of Obama in Cairo
― Euler, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
more like Govt/rupture
― don't make me go plop the trunk (J0rdan S.), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't know anything about Sawiris but as I touched upon upthread, the number of people in Egypt reliant on the public sector is huge and a massive burden on the economy. Mubarak's so-called neo-liberalism of late was really not much more than cronyism.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
elbaradei being interviewed on al-j right now
― Mordy, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
hella outgoing links in this piece:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/the-internet-explodes-as-egypts-dictator-finally-quits/
― goole, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
reporter just asked him if they plan to prosecute the dictatorship and he said it's time to look toward the future
― Mordy, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think it's essential to recognize that while the military may currently be in control, this is the same military that refused to fire upon its own people. So that's something. If it was a military lead coup, that'd be another animal entirely.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
So why does this stand outside the Palace of Westminster then?
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
... better photo:
oh everybody gets a statue, nbd
― goole, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
xpost to Josh
This is the same military that has been in control since 1952, that Mubarak was part of (he was head of the Air Force), that is entangled with every level of government in the country and has a finger in business deals, and is not about to give that all up.
They've positioned themselves very cleverly as somehow a neutral force between the people and the regime, but in reality they are the regime.
Just saying protesters have to keep the pressure on.
― Citizen Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
to my knowledge there's no major statue of richard 'lord protector' cromwell. but i mean there's yer answer really. it was going to go hereditary.
other democracies have avoided this problem, of course.
― The image post from the hilarious "markers" internet persona (history mayne), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Indeed, but its positioning is a tad significant
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Sawaris
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Aw yeah, I've just found out - awesome news!
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
the footage is just beautiful
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
jamie, guy on fivelive just now says
"In 1952 many of the senior officers preferred the monarchy, while the younger ones - including a young colonel called Gamal Abdul Nasser - favoured a successful coup against the old system. What has happened today is that the old Nasserite system - a vaguely Socialist military dictatorship heavily dependent on an unpleasant secret police - has collapsed. The military will continue to run Egypt for the moment, but only until presidential elections are held in September if not before. After that, it is impossible to say, but there cannot be a return to what Egypt has experienced until today."
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
switzerland has apparently just frozen mubarak's accounts
anyway, my point was that, from a US perspective "1776" and "the founders" have a totemic power. all kinds of totally contradictory political impulses over the past 200 years have used that memory. i'm talking out my butt here; the bastille etc is sorta important to french ppl but i am less familiar with the poetic-historical stuff that goes along with other democracies. a little enlightenment talk here, some nationalism there, some founding heroes, a war, i dunno. this stuff matters!
in mubarak's speech, he said his proudest memory was standing in the sinai as a young officer, so clearly he had an idea of what events his power flowed from. doesn't seem like anyone agreed anymore!
― goole, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
the military has been in control of egypt since forever but i cant imagine they havent been put on notice by this uprising - i doubt this will result in everyones wildest democratic/economic fantasy - but likely well see some real reform of the government and greater participation from the people
youve got to think at the v least this has changed the average citizens opinion of their ability to affect the government
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
Looking on factbook and wiki, the economic reforms since '91 are perhaps a bit more than mere cronyism but the economy needs lots of help and at least 20% of the populace lives in poverty
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'd love to think the Saudis were next, but wishful thinking perhaps
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
the contents of mubarak's frozen accounts will do nicely
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
Saudis are well-off, though, and no-one is willing to rock the boat.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i don't think any of the ingredients are there for it i.e. snowballing trade unionism, women in the workforce, educated and disaffected youth, etc
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Tracer
xposts to fivelive thing
I hope so!
I have to go now, but the stuff you posted earlier about to what extent this is a leftist/union moment is really interesting. The April 6 Youth Movement dudes seem to use explicitly socialist revolutionary language.
― Citizen Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
totally!
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
i mean this is really basic, leftism 101 stuff undergirding all this
Saudis are well-off, though, and no-one is willing to rock the boat.― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, February 11, 2011 5:38 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, February 11, 2011 5:38 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
ehh i don't think most saudis are well off
think uprising/revolution 101 is that they happen when things are getting a little better, not when they're absolutely terrible
― The image post from the hilarious "markers" internet persona (history mayne), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
that use of 101 was an xpost
― goole, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
tbh, i think the iranians are next
― Mordy, Friday, 11 February 2011 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
and apparently they agree -- they're jamming radio reports from Egypt: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/feb/11/bbc-iran
I agree w/u/r 101 received wisdom generally but Saudis are better off than many oil poor contries in the region.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:43 (2 years ago)