Pretend you have a ballot for the 2012 edition of Sight & Sound's top 10 movies of all time list

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Even those among us who, you know, actually may get one.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 September 2010 18:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

Like how conservative or how totally idiosyncratic would you let your list get?

Eric H., Saturday, 11 September 2010 18:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Godfather Parts II & III as one entry, just to fuck with them

Mosquepanik at Ground Zero (abanana), Saturday, 11 September 2010 20:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'd probably exclude all three movies as one entry.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 September 2010 23:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

is there any particular criteria for the ballot?

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Saturday, 11 September 2010 23:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Someone put a TV commercial on their ballot in '02, so I'd say not.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 September 2010 23:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

depressing as hell and sign o the times to think anyone here could vote in the sight and sound poll (is this how vertigo leapfrogged rules of the game???)

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 00:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

if i was voting i'm pretty sure my ballot would be very conservative (serving the poll's purpose - establishing film's canon - and usefulness - for 13-15 year olds who care about film criticism). it would give a somewhat misleading picture of my taste (if not my judgment) and i'd be amazed if two movies post-1970 made the list.

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 00:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

tokyo story
stalker
celine and julie go boating
the apu trilogy
ordet
8.5
dr. strangelove
persona
written in the wind
vertigo

a combination of movies i love, but arent necessary perfect and movies which i (and not only i of course) think are masterpieces and i might love them a little less - those couldve been 2 completely different lists!

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 01:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

air bud
air bud 2
michael jackson thriller video
david at the dentist
field of dreams
barely legal #15
citizen kane
bringing up baby
esteban buttez: the first ten posts
goonies

ice cr?m, Sunday, 12 September 2010 01:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

haahahaha

max skim (k3vin k.), Sunday, 12 September 2010 01:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

mmm.. on 2nd thought all of them are masterpieces i love, except from the Sirk one maybe.
here is an alternative list of favourites, who aren't the best:

stroszek
written on the wind
love streams
claire's knee
mullolland drive
bande a part
los olvidados
rio bravo
peeping tom
touch of evil (kane is better but i love this one more)

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 01:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

My pretend ballot:

1. Nashville (1975)
2. Rosemary's Baby (1968)
3. The Godfather I & II (1972/74)
4. Double Indemnity (1944)
5. Spellbound (2002)
6. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
7. Goin' Down the Road (1970)
8. The Conversation (1974)
9. Boogie Nights (1997)
10. Zodiac (2007)

I’ve been circulating variations on this list for a long time. I tend to reshuffle the same 25 or so films, adding a couple of new ones every few years, and I often end up listing things past the point where I’m actually sick of them. So while I know the last two picks especially wouldn’t endear me to Ozu lovers, at least they’re sort of new.

8.5--I love the look of that. It’s like making reference to 84/7 Angry Men.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 03:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok slight digression - can anyone explain to me 12 angry men's continuing high placement on imdb's top 250. i can only figure that it's not prominent enough to draw challops or ppl determined to take it down a peg but widely seen enough to get votes (i'm picturing a huge segment of it's high ratings coming from high schoolers who had to watch it in class and were surprised they actually liked it) but this describes A LOT of movies and every other old movie there - casablanca, some hitchcocks, citizen kane, to kill a mockingbird, etc - is pretty much what you might guess would pop up if you polled a million or so people on the internet.

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 03:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Zeno, your more personal list is predictably much better and more interesting than the canon-hewing one.

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 05:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

Without thinking too long:

Playtime
Out 1
Showgirls
Nostalgia (Frampton)
39 Steps
Poto and Cabengo/Routine Pleasures/My Crasy Life
Le joli mai
Platform
Jeanne Dielman
Man With A Movie Camera

C0L1N B..., Sunday, 12 September 2010 06:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

first ten that came to my head:

cries and whispers
dead presidents
five easy pieces
interiors
jules et jim
all above eve
rope
taxi driver
birth
rosetta

one hood ass geometry teacher (The Brainwasher), Sunday, 12 September 2010 06:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sherlock Jr.
The Mirror
A Moment of Innocence
2001: A Space Odyssey
L'Atalante
Vertigo
Europa '51
Black Girl
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Fires on the Plain

and about 200 others, rotating

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 12 September 2010 06:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's really an indefensible process. I mean, I left Rose Hobart and The King of Comedy off.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 12 September 2010 06:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

Eraserhead
The Seventh Seal
2001: A Space Odyssey
City Lights
Seven Samurai
The Thin Red Line
Crash (Cronenberg)
Battleship Potemkin
The Godfather
The Brown Bunny

Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 12 September 2010 07:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

you guys ... you guys know you have to vote for kane, right

(serving the poll's purpose - establishing film's canon - and usefulness - for 13-15 year olds who care about film criticism)

is this based on anything specific, out of curiosity?

FORTIFIED STEAMED VEGETABLE BOWL (schlump), Sunday, 12 September 2010 08:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

blanche
playtime
the conversation
michael clayton
the thing
floating weeds
thin red line
le samourai
crank
l'atalante

cozen, Sunday, 12 September 2010 09:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

crank!

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 12 September 2010 10:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

think it's based on what's-his-nuts's intense, unexplained rage/resentment issues?

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 10:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

the point is simply that I don't see enough fun action films

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 12 September 2010 10:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

so this thread is "pox: movies of ALL FUCKING TIME"? I'm not even going to take a stab at it.

when you've got a fist all ur problems look like faces (kenan), Sunday, 12 September 2010 12:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh wait, it's if you had a ballot. I see.

when you've got a fist all ur problems look like faces (kenan), Sunday, 12 September 2010 12:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Seventh Seal
Days of Heaven
Le Samourai
The Third Man
Kings and Queen
Once Upon a Time in the West
2001
Passion of Joan of Arc
Rushmore
Taxi Driver

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Sunday, 12 September 2010 13:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

where's gamer?

gunpei yokoi's cunt hunt (cozen), Sunday, 12 September 2010 13:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Mine:

The Rules of the Game
Early Summer
The Lady Eve
The Leopard
The Naked Gun 2 1/2
McCabe & Mrs Miller
Mulholland Drive
Rear Window
Only Angels Have Wings
My Own Private Idaho

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 12 September 2010 13:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hmmm I hate lists

M
Mishima
Simon del Desierto
1st verzh of Man Who Knew Too Much
1st 2 Godfathers
For a Few Dollars More
A Canterbury Tale
Zodiac
Zéro de conduite
Carry On At Your Convenience

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 14:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

Five Easy Pieces, Taxi Driver, Rushmore, and Rear Window are all part of that revolving-door group of films that go onto and drop off my Top 10. (McCabe & Mrs. Miller also, to a certain extent, although there are three other Altmans ahead of it.) I'm very happy to see Zodiac on someone else's list, but I'd be very surprised if it gets a single vote in 2012.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sans soleil
Showgirls
Do the Right Thing
Dressed to Kill
Un chant d'amour
Inland Empire
Women in Revolt
Make Way for Tomorrow
The Rules of the Game
Satantango

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

Obv, I want to see Rules of the Game ascend back into its place position, after showing in '02.

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

Night of the Hunter
Touch of Evil
Harold and Maude
Nosferatu
Psycho
The Royal Tenebaums
Patton
Dr. Strangelove
Natural Born Killers
Videodrome

Mr. John "Manalishi" Abbott (Viceroy), Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

finished tied for 4th in the voice's best of decade poll so i could imagine it getting a vote though yeah no way it's hitting the top ten.
re: purposes of poll, along w/ of course the intense and unexplained rage and resentment i feel towards the british film institute apparently, i think these kind of polls can have a certain usefulness as a taking stock of criticial cw, tracking of cw over the years (bicycle thieves was #1 in the first poll and hasn't appeared in the top ten in decades), but most esp as establishing as a sort of guide to adolescents just picking up a love for film - 'seek out and familiarize yrself w/ these movies'. the first time i watched the rules of the game i know it was because of the sight and sound poll. caring a very great deal about the sight and sound poll, giving it a LOT of weight when you're 14 = understandable, maybe something to be encouraged. caring a very great deal about the sigh and sound poll, giving it a LOT of weight when you're an adult = being the filmnerd version of the type of person who freaks out for days that 'gold soundz' won the pfork poll, unbecoming. when you're an adult the individual ballots are where the fun is (there isn't a list here that's not gonna be more interesting than the actual top ten), when you're an adolescent the main poll is what matters.

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

dur xpost

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Absolutely, which is why, had I a ballot, I have to assume I'd be way more idiosyncratic and personal about my picks than strategic (i.e. putting Rules of the Game on my ballot and snubbing Citizen Kane, Vertigo and Potemkin in order to hopefully push the Renoir up in the rankings).

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

(meaning "absolutely, it's all about the individual lists for me now")

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 17:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

Absolutely, which is why, had I a ballot, I have to assume I'd be way more idiosyncratic and personal about my picks than strategic

Am I reading this wrong, or did you mean the opposite, that you'd be more strategic if you had a ballot? Even if I did have a ballot, I'd just vote for my favorites. The Godfathers would do quite well with or without me, and I don't know that there's anything else from my floating group of 25 where a single vote would make a difference. To impact the results, I'd literally have to start voting for stuff I like rather than love.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Okay, now I see--the parentheses explain what you wouldn't do.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

"The Sigh and Sound poll"--nice Freudian slip about how little the Top 10 changes from decade to decade...

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

what i thought at some point in 2002

if i was voting for reals i'd probably do some dumb mix of love and strategy so let's say

the rules of the game
pierrot le fou
the big sleep
bringing up baby
vivre sa vie
only angels have wings
weekend
red river
breathless
madonna: truth or dare

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

the red and the white
vertigo
sansho dayu
the magnificient ambersons
andrei rublev
god and the devil in the land of the sun
eureka
dead man
red desert
the shining

nakhchivan, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

These lists are all really good imo.

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

could see vertigo getting #1 in 2012

nakhchivan, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

One can fucking hope.

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

tokyo story will be higher too, i guess and hope.

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

These lists are all really good imo.

Yup -- good job, guys.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's impossible really tho, could easily make another 4 or 5 lists of different films that I love just as much.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

in terms of influence upon art house cinema in recent years -
vertigo, 8.5 and tokyo story from the latest 2002 list should be the top 3 in 2012.

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

These lists are all really good imo.
― Eric H., Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:34 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thanks, crank is A+++ heavily dialectical stuff it's troo

post below to show ur support for I love football separatism (cozen), Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

8-1/2 (8.5!) has been much bigger with directors than critics the last two polls. That's one film that goes right past me. I tried again this summer, at least the fifth or sixth time since I first saw it 30 years ago. Fellini in general loses me. The ending of La Dolce Vita is nice. (He did inspire one of my favorite SCTV parodies.)

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

hugely influential in the doing-amy-smart-in-public movement xpost

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

8-1/2 (8.5!) has been much bigger with directors than critics the last two polls

The directors poll was a bad idea. They should've had a cinematographers' poll instead.

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 18:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

That'd be a good idea too, but I've loved scanning the director lists. (And regret it when there's no list from certain people.) Weirdest juxtaposition I remember from 2002: Tarantino picking They All Laughed.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

the top films in 2012 will have very few votes apiece.

basically the founding fathers (in 1952 and 1962... there was actually a bit of a straw poll in 1941-2 that no-one ever mentions, not on the same scale but illuminating) relied on memory above all; the 1972 and 1982 guys had a more solid repertory culture to work with (and television); the 1992 and 2002 voters had video, and, just about dvd.

but since then the amount available has been insane.

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

also see: S. Reynolds on best of 2000s polls

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

I mean, I guess it's not weird in that Bogdonavich was a critic and an auteurist, and Tarantino sort of comes out of that tradition, but I don't remember a lot of blood, AK-47s, or ruminations on Madonna and big dicks in They All Laughed.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think the proliferation of availability has, if anything, been shown to stodgen up the canon.

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dunno. we'll see. i'd say that 'tokyo story' is no longer a lock now that more ozu is available. personally im interested in how avant-garde/underground cinema fits in; can't remember if there are rules about run-time, etc. ditto documentary, really.

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

Women in Revolt

thank you! i think this would quite possibly make my top ten too.

jed_, Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

"-1/2 (8.5!) has been much bigger with directors than critics the last two polls. That's one film that goes right past me"

just watched it again (3rd time i think) a week ago.

even if you don't like it, you got to be at least impressed by Fellini's ability of controlling frame-space and mise en scene

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Ozu could fall victim to Buñuel syndrome (too much, too good, too similar).

Eric H., Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

Difficult to say with these lists whether you're voting for your favourites or the most "important", i.e. someone else's favourites...anyway, these are probably the 10 films I like to watch the most

Carnival Of Souls
Kwaidan
The Seventh Seal
The Third Man
Spirited Away
Tetsuo : The Iron Man
A Canterbury Tale
This Is Spinal Tap
The Thing
2001 : A Space Odyssey

the same relation to machines as that which machines have to man (Matt #2), Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

clemenza tarantino had the proposal as one of his best movies for last year (and shame on me for watching it as a result).

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 19:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ugetsu Monogatari (Japan, 1953)
Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome (USA, 1954)
Psycho (USA, 1960)
Persona (Sweden, 1966)
Mouchette (France, 1967)
Out 1: Noli me tangere and Out 1: Spectre (France, 1971)
La Maman et la Putain (France, 1973)
Suspiria (Italy, 1976)
Dawn of the Dead (USA, 1978)
The Shining (USA, 1980)

Ward Fowler, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

really liked your list till i got to Suspiria, and started wtf'ing?

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

Such bright people inexplicably fond of arty, dull horror.

alternate ballot for the crapped-on comedy:

the Chaplin Mutual shorts
You're Darn Tootin' (Laurel & Hardy)
Trouble in Paradise
Duck Soup (Marxes/McCarey)
The Bank Dick
The Miracle of Morgan's Creek
Son of Paleface
Playtime
Female Trouble
A Private Function (Mowbray/Bennett/Palin/Smith)

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

ward fowler and dr morbius' main list are both v good

nakhchivan, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

well, they are dull.

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

absolutely haven't seen enough films to do a list like this

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

DUDE YOU ONLY NEED TO HAVE SEEN 10

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah i haven't seen that many films, my concentration levels are usually pretty bad. films i didn't bothering watching til the end even tho i actually liked in most instances could easily be an entrant here.

the godfather part II
funeral parade of roses
satantango
short cuts
pickup on south street
hiroshima mon amour
flowers of shanghai
the exterminating angel
f for fake
a canterbury tale

nakhchivan, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

for shame

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok fine but bear in mind my list in a year's time will be RADICALLY different

also I'm discounting films like Network and w/e because it's basically not one of the 10 greatest films ever, even if it is chemically-engineered to make me slaver

That Obscure Object Of Desire
La Ronde
Alphaville
Mulholland Dr
Rear Window
The Rules Of The Game
The Discreet Charm Of The Bourgeoise
The Exterminating Angel
The Conformist
Night Of The Hunter

^^^boring

Would watch movies with Zeno and balls tbh

oh lol @ nakh NOT FINISHING The Exterminating Angel

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

also F for Fake is in my next 10 (as are Ugetsu Monogatari and Pierrot Le Fou of stuff already named)

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

was more sad at him not finishing Canterbury Tale tbh

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

awful confession of my own: fell asleep during His Girl Friday

I was tired ok

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

for shame

― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:42 (40 seconds ago)

yeah but u probably grew up in the olden days when there were trams and tea clippers and patience was necessarily more ecouraged

also i can watch those films any time if i can actually pay attention

nakhchivan, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am interested in the beauty and therapeutic value of "boredom", this is true.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

the godfather part II -- dude really?
funeral parade of roses -- had to google this
satantango -- not my kind of thing
short cuts -- it's ok
pickup on south street -- it's ok but not a big deal
hiroshima mon amour -- dude really?
flowers of shanghai -- yeah... not easy
the exterminating angel -- i like it well enough
f for fake -- (sheepish) not seen
a canterbury tale -- dude really?

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean i love a lot of rly long/boring films if i can actally concentrate, tho on another day i can't even finish a samuel fuller film (and i love samuel fuller films)

it's not like living in a provincial town in the 70s and waiting years for a mizoguchi retrospective, you can watch dvd/blurays whenever

nakhchivan, Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

pre-1930

Intolerance
The Passion of Joan of Arc
The Navigator
Nosferatu
Greed
Easy Street
The Last Laugh
Safety Last
Mikael
Cops

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

hiroshima mon amour -- dude really?

no shame in that being in a top 10

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

don't see how zeno's list is any more exciting than morbs' or ward f's

post below to show ur support for I love football separatism (cozen), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think the "dull" comment was in re: Morbs's snipe at horror flicks

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

ah I see, apols

post below to show ur support for I love football separatism (cozen), Sunday, 12 September 2010 20:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i forgot the sacred "xpost"

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

no shame in that being in a top 10

totes -- i was dude-reallying his failure to stay awake through it

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

or have i misunderstood

hmm

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

didn't fall asleep just stopped watching (as w/ the others i listed)

i'm guesing the misreading was gukbe's not yrs

nakhchivan, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

id definitely include a resnais. not sure which.

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, my misreading. thought you were saying that there were others you didn't make it through that could make the list, then i thought mayne was being all wtf

got it wrong. carry on, gentlemen.

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

is this Pasolini's Caterbury Tale being listed?

jed_, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

Powell and Pressburger.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pasolini's is in the plural iirc

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

also damn i shd probably have had Gospel According to St Matthew in my list going toe to toe with Simon

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'd normally come on here and give my...less than enthusiastic appraisal of F Is for Fake, but acoleuthic voted for it, so I'd better not open that door.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

dude your vendetta is fucking ludicrous and also I didn't put it in my top 10, learn to read

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

also feel fucking free to say what you want to say, I'm not gonna bite your fucking head off

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oops--it was someone else, not acoleuthic. So: I saw it last winter for the first time and thought it was sad. (Sorry.) Bad-sad, not good-sad. Except for a short passage where he got very Ambersons-like nostalgic, which was good-sad. I know it has a major following.

Charming as ever.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Considering a thread called "Surprise Beef" y/n?

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

clemenza you should be honoured as nowadays you're the only ilxor of the many thousands who post to this site whom I'm compelled to speak to in anything like this fashion

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

Duly honoured. And as a major Godfather fan, I love being involved in a vendetta!

clemenza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah um don't take it too far, I have so many films to see before I die

acoleuthic, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Out 1: Noli me tangere"

Amazing, but Size does matter.

should get a tv screening. (along with a re-run of Berlin Alexanderplatz)

Zeno, Sunday, 12 September 2010 21:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm about an hour into Singin In The Rain and this is honestly one of the most joyous, purely entertaining films I've ever seen. Face is aching from grinning.

If ever a film deserved to have the 'see before you die' designation..

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

you millennials, with you posting mid-film!

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's good! it's even better if you stop reading the web btw.

xp lol

caek, Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's exceedingly cute and well-executed. Other MGM musicals are deeper.

xxxp

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sorry I just had to take a little break to recover and take stock from how much I was enjoying it...

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

...and where better to spend it than an ILM film thread.

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

how is on the town viewed by critics? it's the only one that really connected with me beyond sort of cheerful admiration

caek, Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp Morbius which musicals would you say are 'deeper'?

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

As good but not great. xp

Meet Me in St Louis. The Band Wagon. The Wizard of Oz. An American in Paris. even Gigi!

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

jean hagen's so awesome in that

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

i love those donen-kelly pics - big ups to it's always fair weather - but minelli really is another level

balls, Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

an american in paris sucks balls in hell imo

zvookster, Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

sucks balls = sb

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp obv I've seen and adore The Wizard of Oz...but I'll look into those amidst all the other stuff I like watching.

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 12 September 2010 22:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Other MGM musicals are deeper.

How does this matter?

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 00:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also, those of you who are turning in multiple lists, let me know which one I should include in my inevitable spreadsheet.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 00:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

useful for jaymc also^

jed_, Monday, 13 September 2010 00:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Another ten:

The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie
The Bitter Tea of General Yen
Twentieth Century
La Belle Noiseuse
The Magnificent Ambersons
The Heiress
All About Eve
The Dream Life of Angels
Grand Illusion
Orpheus

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 00:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

just offa top of my head i guess:

the abyss
clean, shaven
cría cuervos
edge of heaven
fanny & alexander
le samourai
third man
throne of blood
wages of fear
youth of the beast

swagula (Lamp), Monday, 13 September 2010 01:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Two days into this, and the only vote for Citizen Kane shares space with Air Bud 2 and Barely Legal #15. This is very ominous for 2012. (Or maybe very promising for Air Bud 2 and Barely Legal #15.)

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 01:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Cue hand-wringing "why aren't more britishes pornos making the list?" accompanying article.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 01:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Maltese Falcon
Rear Window
Godfather I & II
The Man With No Name Trilogy
The Third Man
To Kill a Mockingbird
Rio Bravo
Singin in the Rain
Serpico
2001

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 01:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

OK, I know there aren't rules or anything, but I still say it's not OK to list the first and second Godfather movies in one slot. Use two if you want to pull that crap imo.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

hmm haven't they done that themselves?

ok then, Godfather Two, and The Good, The Bad and The Ugly so

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 02:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nah, I'm just being a dick. You can have them in one slot. I think it's BS that S&S did it that way, tho.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I know you don't agree--we went over this on a different thread--but I think you have to accept, or at least recognize, that for some of us they exist as a single film. Especially as you get farther and farther away from them. I'm sure they seemed very distinct when they were first released; now, for me, they blur into one another. The fairness issue in the real poll is another issue, as is the problem for anyone who has a marked preference for one of them

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 02:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbh i'm with eric on this one

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 02:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't like the Kill Bills at all, but if they start turning up double-listed on polls 15 years from now (please no...), it'll make sense to me. But I do get your objection.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 02:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

back to the futures, then? how d'you make the call?

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 02:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well...realistically, there are probably very few candidates for these kinds of polls that present a similar problem. The first two Godfathers might not be unique, but they're close.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 02:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Merging the two Godfathers was nothing but a callous move by S&S to stiff them up in the rankings. They were not filmed concurrently.

That said, no rules on these ballots.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

That said, do I feel this way because I think they're both overrated? Probably.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've got the print issue somewhere around here. I can't remember if you did this or not, but I'm going to take a quick count of separate votes tomorrow. Why do you think they had a vested interest in bumping up GF's totals--to get something more current in the Top 10? You may be right, I'm just not sure what their motivation would be.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 02:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

I did split the votes out, and The Godfather would've made the top 10 (just barely) and Part II would've been, I think, 11th.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

I guess that would rule out currency as a cause. I dunno, maybe they did it to engineer at least one major shake-up in the rankings.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

That's even weirder...It tells me that the decision was based on the unusual 10th/11th finish, for better or worse. If they finish 6th and 17th, or 8th and 29th, I don't think they would have done it.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 02:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Watch The Godfather Parts I & II ascend to the number one slot in '12.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

When you present it that way, I may have come around to your way of thinking. Here's what I think: that if, like me, you want to cast a double-vote, and only use up one slot, you should be allowed to, and each one should have that vote counted towards its total. I know that gives some people 11 votes if they want to exercise that, but so be it. But if x number of people voted for I and it finished 10th, and y number of people voted for II and it finished 11th, and it's two different sets of people, then combining them into one total makes some huge assumptions. So I agree, that's not right. I think I thought that people were actually sending in ballots that had I & II as one film

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 02:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure they weren't. If, for instance, you think the first one is one of the 10 greatest movies of all time and the second one is merely a really good sequel, or vice versa, it's sort of disingenuous to have your vote for the former end up going toward the totals of the latter.

But I admit there probably aren't that many people who really love one and really dislike the other.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 02:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Now I'm suddenly worried that they're going to combine votes for Barely Legal #14 and Barely Legal #15.

Good night all.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 03:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

I favor merging Tokyo Story and Vertigo into one movie.

❽ (M.V.), Monday, 13 September 2010 03:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

i know ppl that really love part one and have no use for the sequels and obv 'part two is better than part one' is almost conventional wisdom now, though that's not the same as dismissing part one. i've pretty much always leaned towards two (and if clemenza had been in it it might be a runaway decision), but lately the pulp blockbuster novel roots that show in one and the somewhat unmet higher aspirations toward a higher station in two make me lean toward the first one (plus brando).

balls, Monday, 13 September 2010 03:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

to be fair barely legal 14 and 15 were shot concurrently.

balls, Monday, 13 September 2010 03:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well...realistically, there are probably very few candidates for these kinds of polls that present a similar problem. The first two Godfathers might not be unique, but they're close - hello ivan the terrible

balls, Monday, 13 September 2010 03:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

they were cumshot cumcurrentwatly

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 03:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

i haven't seen it, but is the inclusion of showgirls on two lists anything other than challops?

Mordy, Monday, 13 September 2010 03:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

berkely's second best role until curse of the jade scorpion.

balls, Monday, 13 September 2010 03:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

No way, First Wives Club was way better than Jade Scorpion.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 03:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

Love that we've had Air Bud, Naked Gun 2 1/2 and actual porn on ballots and it's Showgirls that gets called out.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 03:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

Other MGM musicals are deeper.

How does this matter?

― Eric H., Sunday

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 11:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

bcuz deeper films are better, Mr. The Fury

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 11:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

Love that we've had Air Bud, Naked Gun 2 1/2 and actual porn on ballots and it's Showgirls that gets called out

But is that because it's any better, or because they're all equivalent?

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 11:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

Showgirls is deeper.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 12:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

Go deeper into Showgirls.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 13:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also, I'm pretty tired of hearing how The Band Wagon is somehow deeper than Singin' in the Rain. The reason I like The Band Wagon is that it ends with the admission that it's all about the show, g-d it.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 13:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

morbs, diff strokes and all that, but the funny thing is, Suspiria sorta has more in common w a musical than it does trad narrative cinema - its all about colour, light, stylised movement, and the interrelationship btween image and soundtrack, imho - its like the Red Shoes w added blud! The Shining also is an incredibly CHOREOGRAPHED film

Ward Fowler, Monday, 13 September 2010 13:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

'Showgirls is deeper' is verging on some non sequitur truthbomb fundamental meaning shit

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 13:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbh it wasn't really a joke

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 13:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ward, Morbs has no use for choreogriffany.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 13:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

I was waiting to see how long I could get away with The Naked Gun 2 1/2. Airplane! was Gore Vidal's favorite comedy, so.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 13:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm just way more partial to the first Naked Gun. Tho the third one has that great Academy Awards setpiece.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 13:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Thin Red Line
The Passenger
L'avventura
8 1/2
Seven Samurai
Stalker
Vertigo
Magnificent Ambersons
Au Hasard Balthazar
Tokyo Story

ryan, Monday, 13 September 2010 14:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

Love that Kane is on a grand total of 1 ballots. The ballot with Esteban Buttez: The First Ten Posts on it.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 14:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

took Naked Gun 2 1/2 as a troll of every great film comedian ever

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 14:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

Kane is in my second 10

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 14:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Eyes Wide Shut is at least as "choreographed" as The Shining and much less dumb.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 14:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

i haven't seen it, but is the inclusion of showgirls on two lists anything other than challops?

No more than the fucking Godfather.

C0L1N B..., Monday, 13 September 2010 15:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

^ challops

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 15:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well sure, but The Godfather is some lugubrious garbage, and unless you're Michael Medved, it shouldn't be all that surprising that a lot of people like Paul Verhoeven.

C0L1N B..., Monday, 13 September 2010 15:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is what I came up thinking about for about 5 min

A Woman Under The Influence
2001: A Space Odyssey
Persona
Aguirre: The Wrath of God
Le Mépris
Mulholland Dr
Andrei Rublev
There Will Be Blood
Tokyo Story
Blade Runner

peter in montreal, Monday, 13 September 2010 15:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh shit- blade runner definitely gets in for me, prob at expense of serpico

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 15:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Godfather is some lugubrious garbage

I think I'm guilty of detouring too many threads into Godfather talk, so we're lettin' that one pass!

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 15:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Leave the post. Take the cannoli.

Shock and Awe High School (Phil D.), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I can understand lots of reasons for not being into the Godfather movies, but being "lugubrious" is the most WTF flown-in-on-a-meteor-from-the-other-side-of-the-galaxy reason I've ever heard.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

it insists upon itself

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Toronto's Cinematheque has moved into a new splashy building, and to launch everything they're starting with a series of "essentials" voted on by critics and members. Not sure how it was weighted, but here's the Top 20:

1 THE PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC (Carl Theodor Dreyer)
2 CITIZEN KANE (Orson Welles)
3 L'AVVENTURA (Michaelangelo Antonioni)
4 THE GODFATHER (Francis Ford Coppola)
5 PICKPOCKET (Robert Bresson)
6 SEVEN SAMURAI (Akira Kurosawa)
7 PATHER PANCHALI (Satyajit Ray)
8 CASABLANCA (Michael Curtiz)
9 MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA (Dziga Vertov)
10 BICYCLE THIEVES (Vittorio De Sica)
11 ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL (Rainer Werner Fassbinder)
12 8 ½ (Federico Fellini)
13 BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN (Sergei Eisenstein)
14 RASHOMON (Akira Kurosawa – 2)
15 TOKYO STORY (Yasujiro Ozu)
16 THE 400 BLOWS (François Truffaut)
17 UGETSU (Kenji Mizoguchi)
18 BREATHLESS (Jean-Luc Godard)
19 L'ATALANTE (Jean Vigo)
20 CINEMA PARADISO (Giuseppe Tornatore)

The full 100's here.

I've got tickets for a couple of speakers (which they charge way too much for--$18.75): Michael Murphy's there for Nashville (#71), and Bogdonavich is introducing Citizen Kane (also The Searchers at #41).

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 16:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Could this portend De Sica's triumphant return to S&S's top 10?

... no.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 16:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Y'know, I love 8 ½ but it's such a ramshackle construction I feel like it's not ever gonna be top 20 material.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Funny list - mostly critical canon with occasional jarring interjections from the members - Slumdog Millionaire?!

Haunted Clocks For Sale (Dorianlynskey), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also, Cinemwahahaha Paradlolso

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

think the list is fine and 'representative' but

11 ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL (Rainer Werner Fassbinder)

the eleventh best film of all time? get real.

think filmmakers who make tons of classics are discriminated against. vigo has it easy. wonder if an e-consensus will be built up for powell and pressburger.

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

the eleventh best film of all time? get real.

No -- it means that ten other films got more mentions.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 16:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

think filmmakers who make tons of classics are discriminated against.

This. I wonder if it partly accounts for the rise and rise of Vertigo - critics settling on one Hitch they can all get behind but really voting for his body of work. As far as P&P are concerned, ILX seems to be mostly about Canterbury but ILX ain't the outside world, where I'm guessing Red Shoes is probably still the front-runner? You could make a case for at least 5 imo.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 17:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think 'red shoes' will be 'the one', yup, but 'peeping tom' is a fave of academics and there are plenty of others.

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Monday, 13 September 2010 17:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Peeping Tom" is sans Pressburger tho.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 17:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

as we're all getting greedy here IS my next 10, again, excluding films I love but which clearly aren't classics

Pierrot Le Fou
Citizen Kane
Ugetsu Monogatari
F For Fake
North By Northwest
Bringing Up Baby
Spirited Away
The White Ribbon
Diary Of A Country Priest
The Phantom Of Liberty

should I watch Peeping Tom tonight y/n

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Y

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 17:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

YES.

emil.y, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

P&P support in S&S '02 was just all over the place!

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 17:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh okok cool gotcha

had it lying around for months - I'm really bad at watching movies on my own

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

(By the way, I'm not joining in with this listing malarky as I can't separate my favourites from 'objectively best ever'. If that is indeed what we're supposed to be doing.)

emil.y, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

I never try and figure out whether something is "objectively best".

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 17:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm basically writing up my favourites but vetting it for stuff I love for its greatness as film as well as its enjoyment, and stuff I'm simply thrilled by - only really Network, Oldboy and Being John Malkovitch have suffered such omission

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

(By the way, I'm not joining in with this listing malarky as I can't separate my favourites from 'objectively best ever'. If that is indeed what we're supposed to be doing.)

It's not. It's simply make a S&S ballot, whatever that means to you.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 17:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

basically be really rockist :D

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

The most jarring for me in the Cinematheque Top 20 is Cinema Paradiso. I've never seen it, just assuming (unfairly, and it would seem incorrectly) that it was the kind of feel-good film I avoid, not all that different than The Majestic (which I also haven't seen...) or some American equivalent. The Fassbinder votes seemed odd too: I would have thought Berlin Alexanderplatz, The Merchant of the Four Seasons, Maria Braun, or 13 Moons.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

11 ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL (Rainer Werner Fassbinder)

the eleventh best film of all time? get real.

Is your hatred of Sirk so strong?

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 17:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

i remember liking 'ali' well enough (it's a decade since i saw it), possibly fassbinder's best (need to re-see 'the third generation' and a few others), but it categorically is not the eleventh best film of all time

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Monday, 13 September 2010 17:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

Neither is The Godfather Part II, so they're even.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 17:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't think any of these movies are the eleventh best of all time

peter in montreal, Monday, 13 September 2010 17:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

which is why my ballot would go, unmarked, into the shredder

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 17:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sorry you're all so butthurt over not getting 11 slots.

Eric H., Monday, 13 September 2010 17:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

give them 11 next time, they'll be butthurt over not having 12. marginal extra butthurt, that's ilx

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 18:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

This from the guy who tried to sneak thru the Man With No Name movies as 1 vote.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Monday, 13 September 2010 18:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

they merge into one 4 me

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 18:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

the myriad problems with all-time 10 includes great filmmakers being loved for different works. Fassbinder's career is just one long film to me, and my fave Archers is I Know Where I'm Going!

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 19:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Third Man
The Red Shoes
The Philadelphia Story
Playtime
Bande a Part
Touch of Evil
Inland Empire
The Hour of the Wolf
Daughters of Darkness
Dementia

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

sliding off into the personal there at the end, can't be helped

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 19:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

what is it everyone finds so great about touch of evil when plainly opening shot aside that movie is set up entirely so that the last twenty minutes can be pretty much the best last twenty minutes in film but the rest isn't actually all that

is the payoff THAT good

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 19:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

twenty mins of ' the best in film ' and you're moaning?

k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, 13 September 2010 20:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

Here's Ten, the first 2 are my very top - the rest are just anywhere and may not even get in on another day. on the other hand only four of five jumped out to me as definite. feel free to lol at my lack of knowledge of old black and white things.

Come and See
Distant Voices, Still Lives
Solaris
La Jetee
My Dinner with Andre
Women In Revolt
Safe
Code Unknown
Grey Gardens
Andrei Rublev

jed_, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha it's only a minor gripe but they might as well have called it Orson Welles Externalises His Innate Guilt While A Dude With A Recording Device Pursues Him Through A Junkyard And It Is Rad

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

think mine includes 'cleo de 5 a 7' and 'point blank'

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Monday, 13 September 2010 20:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

^ good list (jed's)

i like touch of evil because it's so dissonant and jarring, because the pieces don't really fit together. it's lurid, exaggerated, poker-faced funny, strange, campy - some of my favorite qualities in storytelling.

ALSO, totally cheating, 20 more:

night of the hunter
once upon a time in the west
la vie de boheme (kaurismaki!)
valerie & her week of wonders
rashomon
aguirre: the wrath of god
trouble every day
breaking the waves
man with a movie camera
excalibur
last year at marienbad
the three crowns of the sailor (sometimes the best movie ever made)
my winnipeg
repo man
the royal tenebaums
the wayward cloud
lucifer rising
who's afraid of virginia woolf
in the mood for love
and....

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 20:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

cruelly slighting depalma: problem with winging this shit. throw in body double and that's probably the pool of films from which i should be selecting...

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

putting breaking the waves and man with a movie camera one after another is a sin!

Zeno, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

touch of evil is consistently great, there's scarcely any fat in the re-edit(aptly)

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/out-of-the-shadows/Content?oid=897261

nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

i haven't seen the re-edit since it was in the cinemas -- basically coz i like having the music over the opening bit.

The sulky expression from the hilarious "Aubrey Plaza" persona (history mayne), Monday, 13 September 2010 20:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

the only version I've seen is the re-edit! I probably need to see it again but it seemed to me an above-average thriller with some compelling characters that launched into brilliance towards the end

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah it's certainly more than that, the camper review is worth reading

if channel 4 did a top 100 things of any description ever, but with good things rather than shit, 'hank quinlan' would be a shoe-in

nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

had a little skim of the review and was all "oh. ok. oops" - the movie will certainly receive another sitting

oh yeah and hank quinlan is never less than great whenever he's onscreen - the bit where he strangles that dude is awesome as well, and his air of attempted insouciance is constantly gripping

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

are there still any people who haven't been given a film crit salary through corruption/nepotism/blackmail etc who believe welles never made a great film past the age of 26?

it's not as if touch of evil or chimes at midnight are somehow partial or esoteric works of genius, they're transparently great films

nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

hahaha as intimated upthread I'm calling F For Fake as his truly great later movie, but then I am unusual

I only quibbled TOE because the ending did things to me that the rest of the movie didn't - it held me absolutely rapt where the rest had entertained and cajoled me - perhaps that still makes the whole a great, climactic movie

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 21:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

^ yeah, that's the way i see it. TOE's climax rivals that of the third man, and the opening shot is stupendous, but i agree that the material in the middle is quite digressive and even bizarre: campy, self-sabotaging, oddly formed. in the sense that the third man is a triumph from front to back, this makes TOE seem like something of a failure. it's not at all consistent. but if eccentric inconsistency can be seen as a valid formal aesthetic, then TOE succeeds brilliantly on its own terms.

i'd agree that F is for fake and citizen kane are more and better controlled, perhaps even "better movies" in some ultimate sense. but i prefer TOE for personal reasons. and i tend to shoot for the one-by-one thing...

also also: peter greenaway - the falls

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 21:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Still prefer the pre-1998 version of TOE.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 21:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha and you know - eccentric inconsistency is a MASSIVE draw for me in various art forms including film - so to view it as a smorgasbord of tones and opposing forces will quite probably elevate it for me

the opening shot IS stupendous, it's like the opening shot of Crank in some ways. ha but srsly it's like a computer game starting. ready, set, go! the bomb is aboard. the wheels are in motion.

TOE's climax is better than The Third Man's climax IMO but then I haven't seen TTM in yeeeeears

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 21:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

wtf ppl loving F is for Fake?

think mine includes 'cleo de 5 a 7' and 'point blank'

I could too, on a given day.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 21:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

nice to see ppl picking things that oh so nearly made my ten - Andrei Rublev, The Hour of the Wolf (my favourite Haneke), The Red and the White.

think the thing i most regret abt my list is not finding any space for a britishes movie - really wanted to put fisher's The Devil Rides Out in there, but the final sequence w the giant spider does drag the movie down. shocked at noodle vague picking the most reactionary Carry On!

films that i'm sorta surprised nobody has voted for so far (unless i've missed em) - The Double Life of Veronique (any Kieslowski? or is he yesterday's man?), Werckmeister Harmonies, Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, which I personally prefer to Aguirre

Ward Fowler, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

considered werckmeister, but would have to see it again. love kaspar hauer, but prefer aguirre. TCM is not a personal favorite and i basically forgot to think about keislowski. and taste of cherry (WTF, me?)

the hanneke you're thinking of is time of the wolf, right? i meant bergman's gothic. time of the wolf is great though - my favorite hanneke, too.

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've seen Touch of Evil both pre- and post-restoration, and I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly: the opening shot in the original comes with jazzy music (great) and credits overtop (distracting), while the restoration loses the credits (good) but also, to its detriment, the music? It's been a while--is that right? Anyway, I love it. The De Palma thread has some back-and-forth on Raising Cane; Touch of Evil, for me, is an example of a great director veering off into delirium and making it work brilliantly. I think you could also lose yourself in it with the sound off, even though you'd lose great lines like "You're a mess, honey." And in terms of Welles pondering his own career, it's so much smarter and more moving than F Is for Fake.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

the enigma of kaspar hauser is easily herzog's best pre-cage work

i saw the opening scene on tv as a kid and was transfixed by the swaying wheat and pachelbel! so nice to discover later on what it was, and that i hadn't imagined it

nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

easily herzog's best pre-cage work

lol

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

wtf ppl loving F is for Fake?
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, September 13, 2010 9:35 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah seriously, it's like repping for Jade as the best Friedkin.

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

because it's one of the most wonderfully grand, sly and overwhelming depictions of artifice in cinematic history? plus it has the chartres cathedral bit which is proper hairs-on-neck-stand-up material

acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

F is for Fake is fine, but I can't rewatch it like I can Ambersons, TOE, or Chimes of Midnight.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've seen Touch of Evil both pre- and post-restoration, and I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly: the opening shot in the original comes with jazzy music (great) and credits overtop (distracting), while the restoration loses the credits (good) but also, to its detriment, the music? It's been a while--is that right?

Yup. Also: the Grande-Suzie stand-off and the walk across the Mexican border in the first third play out in natural time without cross-cutting. Not an improvement, in my view.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Which may or may not say something about the limitations of the auteur theory. The music was presumably a crass, studio-imposed contrivance. It's great.

clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol duh at confusing the bergman and the haneke (they're both horror movies!)

Ward Fowler, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

the music may be great but the ambient soundtrack is great also

not sure it matters ~that~ much anyway

nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 23:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Chimes at Midnight srsly handicapped by Keith Baxter and the fly-by-night financing. My three fave Welles remain Othello, Kane, Lady from Shanghai.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 00:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

man no ambersons?

balls, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

The first 2/3, yeah. We really don't have his film.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

*Keeping fingers crossed that Metropolis guy in Argentina can find some footage*

glengarry glenn ross campbell (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

See, Baxter's terrific; it's Welles who's the trouble.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

Truncated Ambersons is better than intact Kane.

Eric H., Tuesday, 14 September 2010 03:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

eric h = eric hearst

balls, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 03:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

don't wanna know what rosebud equals

glengarry glenn ross campbell (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 03:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

shocked at noodle vague picking the most reactionary Carry On!

They're all pretty reactionary :) Convenience just shows it more clearly cos of the contemporary setting, which is one of the reasons I love it + more or less ideal Carry On cast + hugely moving & nostalgic portrayal of a chunk of working class life that's more or less dead dead dead + genuinely sweet unrequited love story between Sid and Joan Sims.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 06:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

It seems like insanity to put up Ambersons on these lists to me. The ending is atrocious.

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well, it's not Welles' ending at least.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

besides, lots of the finished films on this list have more problems than Ambersons.

Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Fires on the Plain

watched it yesterday - great stuff!

Zeno, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's a shame that it got butchered and the studio changed the ending, but it's still the film we've got. xpost

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Tim Holt is about the least interesting lead actor in a Welles film 'cept maybe the Mr Arkadin guy

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I know that Holt's performance is generally considered a major flaw, but I always found him oddly effective. His tentativeness and awkwardness, like he never quite seems to know what's going on around him, fits George Minifer.

clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

so he's Kim Novak Amberson

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 17:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

Which is preferable to Ruth Gordon Anderson.

When Redd Turns To Blecch (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 17:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

It seems like insanity to put up Ambersons on these lists to me. The ending is atrocious.

― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:49 (2 hours ago)

don't watch the ending then

Chinedu "Edu" Obasi Ogbuke (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 17:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

perhaps that's the best approach.

a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 18:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think most fans (me included) sorta mentally tune out the ending.

ryan, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 17:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

my boring, pedestrian list:

Vertigo
Lolita
Mulholland Drive
Alien
Love and Death
Manhattan
Taxi Driver
All About Eve
Fantasia
Rosemary's Baby

Darin, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Lolita

Which verzh?

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Kubrick - I forgot about the other one

Darin, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

I was joking.

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

straight down the lyne

Chinedu "Edu" Obasi Ogbuke (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha! xp

Darin, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

My take on the two Lolitas:

Swain > Lyon
Winters > Griffith
Irons = Mason

(Don't really remember Langella's perf in the '97 version, so can't compare him to Sellers.)

jaymc, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Kubrick >>>>>>1 Billion>>>>>>> Lyne
Nabokov >>>>>>>>> Infinite >>>>>>>>> Schiff

Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 20:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

my take on jaymc

you = fucking crazy dude

balls, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 23:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

About a year away now I think. It's a little sad how excited I am for this.

third-generation stripper (Eric H.), Sunday, 7 August 2011 18:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

"this" = Vertigo finally overtaking Kane

third-generation stripper (Eric H.), Sunday, 7 August 2011 18:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

you think so? i remember last time there was so few films from 1975 to 2002 that they had a separate poll, which Apocalypse Now won. Will be interesting to see if that's any different this time.

ryan, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't remember that--are you sure it was S&S, and if so, do you have a link for it online?

clemenza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

I remember that (and being glad something other than Raging Bull won).

third-generation stripper (Eric H.), Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

about the the 1975-2002 poll? yes here's the link: http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/63

ryan, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh it says "last 25 years" so i guess it was 77 to 02

ryan, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

tbh almost none of those films deserve to be in the overall top 10, Do the Right Thing excepted

third-generation stripper (Eric H.), Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

id consider Yi Yi and Apocalypse Now

ryan, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

though i haven't seen A Brighter Summer Day so maybe that's a more worthy Yang

ryan, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

Thanks--I have the issue, so I guess I forgot about that. Not sure what to say about the list, other than I can think of many films I'd rather see on there instead (including a documentary or two).

clemenza, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

looking beyond the 2002 top ten is interesting: http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/polls/topten/poll/critics-long.html

I predict: the likes of Antonioni, Dreyer, Bresson, Mizoguchi will (sadly) fall, if not drop off entirely. I expect some recent US auteurs, like prob PT Anderson or Fincher, will place pretty high. I think a Malick movie will place in top 50 (Days of Heaven?).

ryan, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

malick probably a lock. be interesting to see where TWBB ends up... maybe nowhere. think zodiac has developed a following.

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

i would be very happy if Zodiac made it (i'd put it on my imaginary ballot). TWBB will make it, unless there's a better "American movie of the last 10 years"--no others that have a considerable following spring to mind.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

'role models'

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

a lot of bloggers involved in this?

Gukbe, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

i do fear that a lot of critics who have risen to prominence in the last 10 years (the type to write about "cultural vegetables") are gonna get ballots for this.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

i doubt it. i don't think there are many bloggers with profile who aren't also published somewhere tho. obvi 'profile' is doing a lot of work there.

i do fear that a lot of critics who have risen to prominence in the last 10 years (the type to write about "cultural vegetables") are gonna get ballots for this.

is this really a big worry? i could name a bunch of young critics i dislike, but can't say the 1990s appear as any kind of lost eden.

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

xpost

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

I thought Kois was pretty roundly beaten by his fellow critics for that. xxpost

Gukbe, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

you're probably right (the 90s is largely pre-cinephilia for me).

now im actually curious as to how they decide who gets a ballot.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think I'd be more interested in a list by the Vishnivetesky's of the world than one dominated by the Lemire's.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

imo it should be, should be, p interesting coz dvd and rapidshare have 'changed everything' to an extent

apart from the scrap with ayo scott and manohla dargis, tbh i had never heard of dan kois, idk if he'll make the cut

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

ditto at eric at being really excited about this - have you been reading the essays agitating on behalf of other contenders? i made it to the cinema to catch vertigo, which i hadn't seen for years, didn't remember so well & couldn't judge, partly compelled by being able to then read the recent piece. l'avventura next, i guess. (& vertigo was terrific, obviously - it's sort of an interesting companion piece to kane itself, in a way, given they're both such all rounders. the colour pops, too).

i don't especially have predictions re: 2012 but i'd sorta be surprised to see bresson fall markedly?, maybe that's just me ..? i don't know whether that's floated as some sort of recognition of his sensibility not totally being in vogue right now, but i would've thought he'd be a lock amongst the kind of voters s&s is polling (which itself is usually a p interesting list ...), he's as clear a 'the best at that kind of thing' field leader as any of the others i can think of.

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

i was gonna predict something like "20 criterion titles in the top 50" but thought better of it.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

imo it should be, should be, p interesting coz dvd and rapidshare have 'changed everything' to an extent

yeah this is v true. i wonder whether there are cinemas that would've still been too present to be safe bets in the last round, also - thinking of like kiarostami's films in the years prior, etc.

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 22:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

That honestly isn't off the mark. Criterion releases reinsert films into the present consciousness, especially the ones whose remastering has included a theatrical rerelease (that usually bring along critical write-ups). xpost

Gukbe, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yi Yi
Fanny and Alexander
7 Up Series (Apted)
Duck Soup
Treasure of the Sierra Madre
McCabe and Mrs. Miller
Jules et Jim
something by Powell and Pressburger or Pasolini or Louis Malle
Rebecca
Pinocchio

smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

7 Up Series (Apted)

somehow, in spite being primed by the docu thread, including this feels slightly lawless to me

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

I've been doing a Facebook countdown with some friends and just listed Zodiac tenth on my list. I hope you're right about it getting some support, but I still think it's too recent--I'd be surprised if it got more than two or three votes this time around.

clemenza, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

I'd agree that, deservedly or not, Malick will do well this time. Bergman and Antonioni may get a bump from their deaths--Bergman seemed to have been steadily falling since the '72 poll.

clemenza, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'd sorta be surprised to see bresson fall markedly?

yeah his book did very well in this recent s&s 'best books' poll

another new factor may be, well, not vote 'rigging' as such, but... email and blogs will presumably increase the amount of 'comparing notes'

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

i feel like Antonioni's reputation has been steadily falling as well (though i despair at that development) but maybe that's a false impression.

glad to see my feelings about Bresson might be wrong.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

(Contentiously, one critic had three Mann films on his list.)

nrq?

buttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbutt (Lamp), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

wdn't rule out that being the editor!

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

glad to see my feelings about Bresson might be wrong.

glad to be erroneously thought of as having deep inside knowledge, ha. idk, i think between there being a school of guys to whom he's still a god, a byword for a certain approach - as a religion to someone like eugene green or as an inspiration to someone else - and another set for whom he just a past master, i figure he should do okay. and rightfully, for me. pickpocket would make my list for sure.

not totally convinced that malick will suddenly shoot up on account of his recent spike, tbh? maybe, even, getting deep here, on account of the fact of a bunch of fraternal films from the same era, near enough, also competing for that kinda reevaluation spot - i forget the name of the studio criterion just reissued the set of, w/head & five easy pieces & all, but i feel like there's a lot of american stuff around from there which people might want to throw a vote to. maybe it's been too long since i've seen days of heaven though, or maybe he'll eat up some of altman's share, malick probably being more contemporary.

it is strange considering the approach, because i'm not totally sure that people are going to have the impulse to go for the things you feel you have to, this time around; like it must feel more and more limiting knowing that kane is your apex when you also have rivette in your back pocket or something else that'll be an emblem for where cinema can take us rather than how it is best practiced.

nick james is a ed yang stan, what a guy.

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

will you get a ballot hm?

jed_, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

bresson is one of those geezers who suffer from not having one consensus pick from a generally p flawless filmography

REALLY hope that S&S don't treat first and second Godfather as one film this time round, that's such bs.

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

otm

xpost

idk

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

jed's gonna intercept your e-mail

and then write in his own list

with #1 donnie darko

and only five other films

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

#2 The Box

i'm sure hm would be fine with it.

jed_, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

yep!

full on... mask hysteria (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 23:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

Slightly lawless how, schlump? I think the films are interesting as projects, not necessarily as films themselves

smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Thursday, 11 August 2011 00:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think Malick was relatively obscure prior to 1998 and TTRL, and considering that the next poll was 2001, i just feel that his profile is a lot higher, if probably pretty divisive.

thought the consensus Bresson was Au Hasard Balthazar...or Pickpocket. though I'd rep for a LOT of them.

ryan, Thursday, 11 August 2011 00:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

ha, well; i think i just think of the s&s top 10s as quite a particular thing, maybe on account of the fairly canonical dominance of stuff like kane - of it being some kind of enquiry into the basically auteurist craft of feature-making. and so i think i'd feel daring putting 7Up in there because, vis a vis its TV origins & the nature of the project, they feel like they fit more neatly into a different box - that as much as s&s is going for a 'greatest films' list in one sense, it's really more about who used the toolset the best against different historical backdrops. this is obviously no reason not to vote for it, however, & i'd be including docus (gates of heaven) in my list, too, & included the Up series in my list for clemenza's thing. it's just a feeling (that i find you heretical).

i saw nick james talk, a while ago, at a thing that reviewed the last decade in film, not long after the most recent (and great) list of 30 films they put together was published in the magazine. and he'd tried to get yi yi, to screen, both as a highlight of the decade and as a representation of what he saw as a dying breed - he felt like making that kind of opus, on that scale, or on the scale of WKW's stuff, say, was not something that cinema was going to continue doing, that it would probably pad out in different directions. and while i don't think that's necessarily borne out by the facts - i think there are films from argentina & elsewhere that've basically taken the same approach, and not in small numbers - it does feel like there's some kind of truth to it, and i feel a shift in what making a film might mean, now, i guess in the same way that there are those occasional paradigm shifts in what the novel seeks to reflect about society (for me, w/films, it is more using the camera unobtrusively, as an eye, to paint portraits rather than to track action or tell stories, though i think that's probably me being overly gung-ho in appreciation of slow cinema, on account of having in a short spell got hip to a bunch of asian film that i'd slept on and suddenly feels like the future). & this kind of delineation of the shifting aims of films to me kinda exposes the older models, that i feel like the top 10s try to encapsulate - not really docus, not really newer impressionistic stuff but specific, systematic films that were made solidly with a command of their ingredients.

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Thursday, 11 August 2011 00:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

the most recent (and great) list of 30 films they put together

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/49591
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/49593, btw

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Thursday, 11 August 2011 01:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

^^^ great post. I'm feeling convinced lately that the next great thing in film – obv. not mainstream, american film – will be a reinvigoration of impressionistic styles, driven by the integration of video-game and powerpoint type media

smells like PENGUINS (remy bean), Thursday, 11 August 2011 01:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

wondering if killer of sheep is ever gonna get S&S love, or ilx love really

Peepee Soaked Heckhole (zachlyon), Thursday, 11 August 2011 03:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

It got a few votes in the 2002 poll (four or five maybe?) To Sleep with Anger got a vote or two too.

clemenza, Thursday, 11 August 2011 03:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

Jesus God, what kind of maniac thinks Apocalypse Now is better than Raging Bull?

satan club sandwich (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 August 2011 05:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

I mean, you did notice that the last third of AN just sucks?

satan club sandwich (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 August 2011 05:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

i haven't seen it in a while but i think the first two-thirds of 'apocalypse now,' at least, are great. as someone who's never understood the appeal of any of the 'godfather' flicks, i think AN is probably the only coppola that's ever been a big deal for me (apart from 'rumble fish').

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 11 August 2011 06:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

will be a reinvigoration of impressionistic styles, driven by the integration of video-game and powerpoint type media

curious for you to expand on this, remy

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Thursday, 11 August 2011 09:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

re: bresson - i'm not sure, but i think 'man escaped' wld prob be the brit consensus choice, maybe in france, too? the national film theatre in london's programme notes for 'l'argent' always used to claim that it was the best film ever by the best director, ever, and so... seems like 'pickpocket' is the american consensus pick, prob cos of schrader repping for it hard in 'transcendental style', tho i've always thought it was one of rb's less satisfying pics (relatively speaking, obv.) and of course, the correct ans. anyway is 'mouchette'...

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 11 August 2011 11:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang
Pootie Tang

Erin Go! Bwaaaah!!! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 11 August 2011 11:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Jesus God, what kind of maniac thinks Apocalypse Now is better than Raging Bull?

they're both flawed in interesting ways but I prefer AN's interesting ways.

a 'catch-all', almost humorous, 'Jeez' quality (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 August 2011 11:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

ha, ward, that all sounds right. think that's probably true of a man escaped, & it sorta ticks the right boxes to be considered his definitive pick - as spare as any of them, as serious and as singular.

ages since i've seen mouchette. i think i actually have kinda conflated it w/onibaba. & i still for the most part haven't seen his historical films ...

bruce actual springsteen (schlump), Thursday, 11 August 2011 11:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

Also: Antonioni's reputation has been more uneven than any other major director in these polls.

a 'catch-all', almost humorous, 'Jeez' quality (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 August 2011 11:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

fuck, been thinking too much about this so now i have to do one. these are the movies i'd want to give a push, even if they'd never make the top hundred

spirit of the beehive
killer of sheep
my neighbor totoro
koyaanisqatsi
playtime
dekalog series
the iron giant
ikiru
the seventh seal
blade runner

that's 10 but wings of desire and russian ark and probably some more films are equal. gummo got a vote in 2002 and i might hypothetically vote for it in contrarian solidarity. or maybe i'd throw a vote to shawshank, which might be more contrarian in this context.

Peepee Soaked Heckhole (zachlyon), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 22:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

"semi-honest" ten
Scarface (1932)
Kind Hearts and Coronets (1949)
Night and the City (1950)
Vertigo (1958)
Last Year at Marienbad (1961)
Playtime (1967)
Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)
Pee Wee's Big Adventure (1985)
Crumb (1994)
Sin City (2005)

"strategy" ten
Sunrise (1927)
The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
The Third Man (1949)
Vertigo (1958)
Last Year at Marienbad (1961)
Playtime (1967)
2001 (1968)
Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Mulholland Dr. (2001)

little mushroom person (abanana), Thursday, 18 August 2011 13:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think i could be reasonably comfortable with a top 20, but a top ten is just brutal; everything that's an exemplar of great, well-executed narrative stuff gets pushed into 11 - 20 because i feel like the top ten should be populated by kinda sui generis weird stuff that's more about cinema as a medium (can't really explain this distinction, but something about montage & communication as priorities rather than narrative or performance).

sweatpants life trajectory (schlump), Thursday, 18 August 2011 13:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

is there any "action" movie that would ever have a shot at the top 25 or so? The Road Warrior?

ryan, Thursday, 22 September 2011 14:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

The Opening of Misty Beethoven

michael assbender (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 September 2011 15:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

battleship potemkin

zvookster, Thursday, 22 September 2011 15:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

seven samurai, duh!

The sham nation of Israel should be destroyed. (Princess TamTam), Thursday, 22 September 2011 15:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

Seven Samurai was tied for 9th last time in the directors' poll

xp!

Wages of Fear should get more votes.

incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 September 2011 15:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

Seven Samurai is a total duh, of course. I guess i was fixated on a particular post-70s idea of an action movie.

ryan, Thursday, 22 September 2011 15:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

Any post-70s movie getting into S&S is sort of a quixotic proposal.

michael assbender (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 September 2011 15:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

guys, the sight and sound poll has just become officially irrelevant. we are finally getting The New Canon.

Gukbe, Thursday, 22 September 2011 19:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

Any post-70s movie getting into S&S is sort of a quixotic proposal.

i think we might've touched on this upthread, but isn't one of the perks of anticipating 2012 the 'changed viewing landscape' & you know celebrating that we live during the third act of kiarostami's career, with everything that means about recent films entering the canon?

347.239.9791 stench hotline (schlump), Thursday, 22 September 2011 23:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Question for Eric, Morbs, etc. If you had to pick one film post 1989 to vote for in S&S, which would it be? What about post 1999?

polyphonic, Thursday, 22 September 2011 23:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't give up on Raging Bull yet in terms of a (barely) post-'70s film. It tied for 6th in the directors' poll last time; probably its biggest obstacle in gaining further ground this time would be Scorsese's mediocre output the past 10 years.

clemenza, Thursday, 22 September 2011 23:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think i'd probably take issue with the idea that it totally works that way, but more immediately you're forgetting that this poll will be conducted post-hugo

347.239.9791 stench hotline (schlump), Thursday, 22 September 2011 23:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

Hugo will likely trigger a major re-evaluation of Scorsese's entire filmography...I can see where a mediocre decade could cut both ways. Maybe all the recent mediocrity makes Scorsese's earlier films stand out all that much more; but I also think there's a general loss of enthusiasm about someone when they play out the string, and that that can impact how you feel about the earlier work. I can think of musicians where it's worked one way with me, and others where it's gone the other way.

clemenza, Thursday, 22 September 2011 23:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

that GQ piece is vile.

ryan, Friday, 23 September 2011 02:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

if Sight and Sound isn't gonna honour movies post-1986, someone has to. I'm glad she's there, not giving a shit about Rules of the Game.

Gukbe, Friday, 23 September 2011 02:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't give up on Raging Bull yet in terms of a (barely) post-'70s film.

Yeah, not counting Raging Bull placing as a victory for post-'70s movies, Biskand.

michael assbender (Eric H.), Friday, 23 September 2011 03:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

Don't know if I'll get a ballot -- maybe they already went out -- and I'm too flibbertygibbet really to be much cop at these kinds of anti-historical monumentalisation, as the S&S peeps know, but I should totally rep for The Thing if I do.

Also Sir Henry at Rawlinson End.

mark s, Friday, 23 September 2011 12:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

Any ilxors get invited to participate? I promise not to (admit to) be(ing) jealous.

Question for Eric, Morbs, etc. If you had to pick one film post 1989 to vote for in S&S, which would it be? What about post 1999?

Respectively, Showgirls or Eyes Wide Shut and Inland Empire, probably.

Eric H., Thursday, 15 March 2012 20:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

first thoughts:

A Moment of Innocence

Mulholland Dr.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 March 2012 20:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Recent films I'd back for all-time best: the Lynches, The Tree of Life and Être et avoir.

Soggy Cheeseburgers (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 15 March 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Être et avoir

English title: Come At Me Bro

Eric H., Thursday, 15 March 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow, that completely changes the tone of the film!

Soggy Cheeseburgers (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 15 March 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

'double life of veronique,' 'my neighbor totoro'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 15 March 2012 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

lots of otm already. i can't really remember what 2002 included but i'd imagine that this poll will canonise a bunch of iranian stuff, maybe some slow Asian stuff like Hou.

john-claude van donne (schlump), Friday, 16 March 2012 11:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

when i think about post 89 films id vote for i get a little embarrassed at how conventional my taste is, but id vote for:

The Thin Red Line
A.I.
Eyes Wide Shut
Zodiac
In the Mood for Love
maybe Flowers in Shanghai?

trying to remember some more Euro or artier stuff but my mind's a-blank...

ryan, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

alternates to my two above wd be Close Up and Munich

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think part of my problem is that some of the movies post-89 that are real touchstones for me (Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring, uh, springs to mind) aren't exactly what I'd call flawless masterpieces.

ryan, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Question for Eric, Morbs, etc. If you had to pick one film post 1989 to vote for in S&S, which would it be? What about post 1999?

fantastic mr. fox, a scene at the sea, 35 shots of rum, the portuguese nun, through the olive trees...

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

more: giliap, take care of your scarf tatiana (or maybe ariel), looking for mushrooms, black rain

probably lots of others

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok more: nouvelle vague, commingled containers, long day closes, spirited away, the thin red line...

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

er giliap is 1975, i meant songs from the second floor

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

chungking express, heat, the blade, god knows what else

so many to pick from

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Of the films you guys have listed, how close do you think they'd come to actually making your real ballots? Not even close? Kinda close?

polyphonic, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

a scene at the sea

this is such a rad movie!!

Lamp, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

My post-'89 picks:

My Own Private Idaho
Carlos

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 26 March 2012 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

If I had an actual, real ballot, I'd list Zodiac for sure. I'd probably do something I never do, which is try to be mindful of the poll's lineage and pass over Spellbound as too subjective a pick. (I realize Zodiac's pushing it.)

clemenza, Monday, 26 March 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'd throw 'an angel at my table' in there, but i'm inclined to put it in pretty much any movie list i make.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 06:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah that one. i love that movie.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 06:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Of recent vintage, would be tempted by Wong, but not sure which. In the Mood, Happy Together, Fallen Angels, he's the kind of guy (maybe like Tarkovsky too) where lack of a consensus "masterpiece" could keep him off a list like this.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 07:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

4 weeks pass...

http://www.tnr.com/article/film/102885/the-godfather-anniversary-restoration-cinemark-coppola

I stress the unity of the two films because later this year the British film magazine Sight & Sound will have its once-a-decade poll of film critics to find the ten best films ever made. It’s a game, of course, yet the poll has become a cultural standard because Citizen Kane has won five times now since 1962 and must be considered favorite to win again.

Fair enough, if that’s what people think, but maybe it leaves cinema looking a little passé if our dominant film is 71 years old. Has nothing come along as great since then, not even with all the technical plushness? But the editor of Sight & Sound, Nick James, has advised the electorate that every vote must go to an individual film. You can pick The Godfather and Part II but not as the two halves of one work. I regret that because I think it misses a quality in the work, and diminishes the chances of the total Godfather being voted best film—I’ll guess it’s the most likely threat to Kane.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 11:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Boo hoo.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 11:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

The "total" Godfather now seems to willfully exclude Part III.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 11:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

fair enough tbh

aboulia banks (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 12:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

they shd be 2 movies tho, to pretend they're 1 long movie is to ignore the way that the second undercuts and inverts the first

aboulia banks (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 12:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

my top candidates for #1 are all older than Kane.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 13:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

but younger than Abel.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 13:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

#teamvertigo

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 14:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, #teamrulesofthegame really, but let's be realistic.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 14:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wonder what made S&S reverse course on The Godfathers? Pushback from voters? From readers? From the estates of various directors who fell back of the combined entry last time?

clemenza, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Because so many of them are still alive.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 19:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

The more people I find out have ballots in this thing, the more I have hope that there will be major upheavals.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Why so invested? All this all-time polling crap, about films utterly opposite in style, historical context, and aims, is even more of a parlor game than year-to-year lists.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Major upheavals" would be just so much redecorating.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

my top candidates for #1 are all older than Kane.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but younger than Abel.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

niche lols

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

i for one am looking forward to finding out what the best film is later in the year

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's definitely not king of new york because the original bad lieutenant is better

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Based on the coverage in S&S it seems that 'Beau Travail' and 'Mulholland Drive' are the most likely contemporary films to place.

fun loving and xtremely tolrant (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

got a kick out of lookin at the voting breakdown from 02. zizek voted for dune and some nazi kitsch that ive never heard of.

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

james toback voted for get shorty

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think younger critics are less apt to hold specific titles in esteem that older ones, or if they do, in a less herdlike manner (ie the voters this time for TP: Fire Walk with Me will get nowhere). So I wouldn't guarantee a ton of upheaval.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

i for one am looking forward to finding out what the best film is later in the year

lol

otoh when i was a teenager i def used the s&s list as viewing guide so idk

Lamp, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

i would still but now i just watch youtubes

Lamp, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Why so invested?

Like I need to tell a baseball fan.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Plus, games are awesome, parlor or otherwise.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

for younger crix the alogorithm is usually

1 x silent film that isnt potemkin sunrise or w/e
1 x bresson/dreyer
1 x japanese
1 x godard else maybe eustache or markers or suchlike
2 x ford/hawks/sirk/&c
2 x hitchcock/welles/kubrick
1 x tsai/breillat/&c antiseptic post 95 arthouse
1 x avantgarde

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah but in baseball the best team actually wins most of the time!

xp

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

also the '55 Dodgers don't play the '98 Yankees

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 silent, preferably in which an elephant dies on camera
1 fruity early sound musical
1 first wave a-g
1 newer a-g, preferably a horror movie in disguise
1 golden age of horror
1 French 60s (maybe Bresson)
1 French 70s (maybe Bresson)
1 movie with men kissing, but they're actually killing each other unless one is underage
Satantango
2 girls, 1 cup reax YouTubes

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

^outlier

Reseeing it on Super Bowl Sunday, I found I have no particular affection for Satantango at all.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cold.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

It is.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's so cold in the Dr

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tarkovsky would be my Tarr.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Smacks of tarkonism.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

tarrnished angels

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was going to watch satantango last week, it's satantango kind of weather

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

more ppl itt should post their pretend ballots

Lamp, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 20:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

really don't care about the final list at all and kinda can't believe anyone really does (in fact i'm dreading the idea of 'kane' getting pushed off the top spot if only because of the completely pointless backlash/debate it'll generate) but i do always love browsing the individual lists.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 20:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i would cosign that, i remember assiduously poring over the 2k2 top 10 ballots

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

unless 8-1/2 counts, has a comedy by anyone except Chaplin ever made the top 10?

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

surely 'the general' made it at some point?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

It did, twice, yeah. Also Le Million and Singin' in the Rain if you count musicals.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 20:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

i can't really rationalize my interest in these lists (other than, as said above, it was basically the start of my film education). but it's always fun to see what places around 50 and later.

ryan, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

i feel a little bad admitting it but i basically have no desire ever to watch 'satantango.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 01:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Screw that noise, I obsess over every single-slot shift in the top 10 like a madman. Things that place below 10, much less 50, do not count.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 02:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

The movies that have been on more than one ballot itt so far.

2001: A Space Odyssey
Atalante, L'
Conversation, The
Godfather I & II, The
Mulholland Drive
Playtime
Rules of the Game, The
Samourai, Le
Seventh Seal, The
Showgirls
Taxi Driver
Thin Red Line, The
Touch of Evil
Zodiac

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 12:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ebert

GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Replacing just one movie? (also, bad form to reveal one's ballot early? I suspect others will leak too.)

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

at least he didn't put Juno on there

Number None, Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Decalogue is one work, so S&S can suck it (if Rog is representing their rules accurately).

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Think he's just bending over backwards to find some way to justify to himself not simply re-running his '02 ballot with no changes.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Of course, I have no idea what the editor specifically told contributors, or if specific titles were named as examples.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

And that kills me.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

did any of the actual real working film critics here get a ballot?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 26 April 2012 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

history maybe

jed_, Thursday, 26 April 2012 20:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

mayne!

jed_, Thursday, 26 April 2012 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ebert's juxtaposition of Synecdoche New York and Tree of Life is kinda inspired.

ryan, Thursday, 26 April 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

he shoulda made all ten films maudit

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 April 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ballots are apparently due today.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, I only know of one voter with whom I am acquainted, and I'm just glad there are no Family Guy feature films he can include.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 April 2012 14:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

He might make a case for Breaking Bad S3 tho.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Monday, 30 April 2012 14:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha nrq:

1 the social network; 2 ferris bueller’s day off; 3 bad santa; 4 zoolander; 5 die hard; 6 wayne’s world; 7 heat; 8 dazed and confused; 9 step brothers; 10 satanstango; honourable mentions: trailer for miami vice; lebowski; grosse point blank; harold and kumar trilogy… aaand SEND

caek, Monday, 30 April 2012 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

couldnt yr estimable friend nominate individual family guy episodes

Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

guessing there will be 4real porn in ballots this time not just seventies big bottom bird stuff

also gifs

Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

nakh, S&S has not yet sunk to ILEvels

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

theres a fair bit of random/contrived ephemera in the 2k2 ballots, esp from academics

KJB to thread (and poll, hopefully)

Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

With all the online-only people I know that are involved, I wonder if this year S&S isn't opening up a third category exclusively for the new breed.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

separate and inequal?

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

frogbs, ilx magazine

Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

J. Lewis got at least one vote, allegedly: http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=1046

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Monday, 30 April 2012 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

ilx is my favorite blog

I will transmit this information to (Viceroy), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

jesus those ppl have terrible taste.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

However, let's be real: the one to cut is 'Tokyo Story.' Maybe because I'm consumed with parental guilt and don't like thinking about it."

i mean i just

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

"I couldn't finish Citizen Kane. It's not that it's not fun -- it's that the state of journalism is so bad that I couldn't stand to watch what Welles thought at the time."

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Aside from a couple specific voices there, I'd prefer to blame the canonization of a real good musical like Singin' in the Rain for the distaste/indifference.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

"I'm not going to beat around the bushes with this: 'Jurassic Park' remains a modern marvel to me. In this cinematic age where substance subsides to style among the masses, Spielberg's blockbuster masterpiece seamlessly blended a rich and fantastic story with incredible special effects that continue to awe and inspire. I truly believe it deserves a spot amongst the top 10. That being said, I've never been that fond of 'Singin' in the Rain.' Though I'm not disputing its significance in cinema's history, I'd probably bump that one to make room for 'Jurassic Park,' especially since it's ranked tenth."

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I suspect I am going to vent my anti-Shining mania for publication before the summer is out.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

if only the sight and sound list more closely resembled every 15-year-old's list of interests on myspace.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Anyone who knows me could see this answer coming a mile away. I'd remove 'Singin' in the Rain,' on the grounds that I can rarely tolerate musicals. And I'd add director Darren Aronofsky's 'The Fountain,' my personal favorite movie of all time.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

I suspect I am going to vent my anti-Shining mania for publication before the summer is out.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, April 30, 2012 1:34 PM (1 minute ago)

can't wait

improvised explosive advice (WmC), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

"I'm that awful human being that doesn't love Francis Ford Coppola's 'Godfather' trilogy in the same way that most do, so I'd remove the two-fer of 'The Godfather Parts I and II.' Much like 'The Rules of the Game' and 'Sunrise,' they're films that I appreciate more than I outright enjoy, but they don't give me the same sort of artistic appreciation that these other works do, so my apologies to Coppola (who won't likely be sending me any of his wine anytime soon), but his films is an offer I'd be able to refuse...sorry for the pun. As for what to replace it with, I have to go with my favorite film of all time: 'The Shawshank Redemption.' It's everything that you go to the movies for, and if it's not quite as historical a film, it more than makes up for it with quality. Perhaps not a highbrow enough pick for some, but it's the most honest choice that I can make."

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I suspect I am going to vent my anti-Shining mania for publication before the summer is out.

You starting a blog?

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

how the fuck was Ric Delgado allowed to nominate films

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, I guess most of the good film bloggers were out picnicking last week.

o hell no Eric

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 April 2012 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

eric, aren't you going to make a cannes 2012 poll/thread this year?

jed_, Monday, 30 April 2012 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

You know me too well, et al.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Monday, 30 April 2012 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

cheers ;)

jed_, Monday, 30 April 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Will Leitch, Deadspin:

"I would take out 'The Godfather Parts I and II' because that is cheating: You can't put two movies in one spot, even if you want to. WHAT ARE WE, SAVAGES? I would replace it with 'The Godfather.'"

Now this I like.

Still reeling from the idea of anybody's all-time favourite movie being The Fountain, let alone someone who writes about film for a living, albeit for HuffPo.

And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mine hasn't changed in a while.

1. Some Call It Loving (James B. Harris, 1973)
2. The Hart of London (Jack Chambers, 1969-1970)
3. Imitation of Life (Douglas Sirk, 1959)
4. Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal Akerman, 1975)
5. Blow Job (Andy Warhol, 1962)
6. Thanatopsis (Ed Emshwiller, 1963)
7. Submit To Me Now (Richard Kern, 1987)
8. Illusions (Julie Dash, 1980)
9. Angel Face (Otto Preminger, 1953)
10. The Rocky Horror Picture Show (Jim Sharman, 1975)

Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 05:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

since i never posted mine, here goes:

1. a taste of honey (tony richardson, 1961)
2. city lights (charles chaplin, 1931)
3. daisies (věra chytilová, 1966)
4. loves of a blonde (milos forman, 1965)
5. persona (ingmar bergman, 1966)
6. an angel at my table (jane campion, 1990)
7. l'avventura (michelangelo antonioni, 1960)
8. my man godfrey (gregory la cava, 1936)
9. stranger than paradise (jim jarmusch, 1984)
10. fanny and alexander (ingmar bergman, 1982)

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 06:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

After Death (Bauer, 15)
The Scarlet Empress (Von Sternberg, 34)
L'eclisse (Antonioni, 61)
La Jetee (Marker, 62)
Simon of the Desert (Bunuel, 65)
Weekend (Godard, 67)
Pink Narcissus (Bidgood, 71)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Hooper, 74)
Satantango (Tarr, 94)
Showgirls (Verhoeven, 95)

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 11:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's a nice list

like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 11:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

All US/Euro+Russian tho, which does bother me.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 11:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Nader voting" v popular itt

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 11:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

If I were to choose one title to bolster in the top 10-20 range, it would be Rules or Balthazar.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 11:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric, I'm sad that Women in Revolt got bumped.

jed_, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 12:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don't worry. Both Women in Revolt and Pink Narcissus will get the same amount of votes in the IRL S&S poll.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 13:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha.

jed_, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 13:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Belle de Jour (Buñuel, 1968)
Trouble in Paradise (Lubitsch, 1932)
Anatomy of a Murder (Preminger, 1959)
Early Spring (Ozu, 1956)
Au Hazard, Balthazar (Bresson, 1966)
Mulholland Drive (Lynch, 2001)
The Earrings of Madame De... (Ophuls, 1953)
McCabe & Mrs Miller (Altman, 1971)
My Own Private Idaho (Van Sant, 1991)
The Lady Eve (Sturges, 1942)

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 13:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess since at least 8 of my selections could be construed as horror movies of some stripe, you can have two screwballs.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's what I've been told more than once

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 13:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

At once.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 13:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Depending on who the newbies are, I could see Pink Narcissus getting some votes (like, 3).

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 14:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yay artistically defensible gay wankery!

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^ summer gay thread title

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 14:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Who thinks about art in the summer?

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 14:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

have you such contempt for yourself?

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 14:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

always

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 14:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Until the rainbow burns the stars out in the sky
Until the ocean covers every mountain high
Until the dolphin flies and parrots live at sea
Until we dream of life and life becomes a dream
Until the day is night and night becomes the day
Until the trees and seas just up and fly away
Until the day that 8x8x8 is 4
Until the day that is the day that are no more
Until the day the earth starts turning right to left
Until the earth just for the sun denies itself
Until dear Mother Nature says her work is through
Until the day that you are me and I am you

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 14:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^ summer gay thread title

Considering my top two can't-wait-to-see movies this summer are Magic Mike and Step Up Revolution, it's got my vote.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 16:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

where does "defensible" fit in w/ Step Up Revolution?

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ask yourself, Occupy Film Threads.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

To what degree are you guys just making lists that you like to look at? Like, Eric, do you really think Showgirls is better than other films by some of the directors on your list, like Tokyo Story or Werckmeister Harmonies or whatev? Not to pick on you personally but I wonder about how much of these lists involve some gamesmanship or eclecticism.

Not that I don't love Showgirls ...

polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am for real with Showgirls.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tho I understand the impulse to ask. Conversely, I want to ask people who list Raging Bull, 8 1/2, Battleship Potemkin and Seven Samurai if they're making a conscious choice to have boring taste.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

those genuinely are my 10 favorite films! tho if i were actually voting in the S&S poll i'd prob replace one of the bergmans with something else just for the hell of it.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tho I understand the impulse to ask. Conversely, I want to ask people who list Raging Bull, 8 1/2, Battleship Potemkin and Seven Samurai if they're making a conscious choice to have boring taste.

yeah, that too. i love 'rules of the game' and 'vertigo' but no one needs another xerox of roger ebert's top 10 list.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think I would ever put Battleship Potemkin and Seven Samurai in a top 10 though I think they are both "great" -- and I'm not sure how "boring" enters into it, anymore than "asinine" necessarily does with something written by Joe Eszterhas -- but some films are canonical whether you like them or not.

also WTF Seven Samurai is less boring then every comic-book hero film ever made.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^^^

like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Whatever, you will all bow down before the superiority of my taste.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I might list Potemkin if I was making a conscious attempt (as opposed to my unconscious attempt above) to make a list of 10 great gay movies.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sight and Sound is asking for "best", which is obviously a can of worms, but a lot of critics seem to be voting for films that are historically significant or formally innovative, whereas others are just voting for their favorites. I'm not really sure what the value of a poll is if the voters are not using the some criterion for their selections.

Anyway, my list would be 1. Shawshank Redemption, 2. The Fountain ....

polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

What's gay about it -- sailors complaining about bad food?

xp

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp the "same" criterion

polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have less interest in Kurosawa's samurai shit the older I get, i.e. less embarrassment admitting they bore me. I prefer the crime dramas/noir.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

If pressed, I'm sure I could write a few thousand words about why Showgirls is one of the greatest movies about/embodying "the dream factory." And did.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

So why did you dock it half a star?

polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Actually, I think that would be the movie I'm most equipped to defend on my list next to Chainsaw. Selling Narcissus would be a tougher sell. I suppose if it would make more people comfortable, swap that one out in your mind for Cocteau or something.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

So why did you dock it half a star?

You mistake my methodology. Every time I watch that movie, I add stars to its rating. Right now, it's sitting at something like 73 and a half stars.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

any time i try to make a list like this it becomes somewhat biographical (ie, maybe even narcissistic) but you want to balance that with a pretense to "objectivity."

So Seven Samurai appears because I got that first Criterion DVD in college and it was one of the first japanese films I ever saw and it put me in touch with a sense of film history that i didnt have before. and it was long and in black and white and I loved it anyway. it's a touchstone for me.

on the other hand there are other movies from that era of my life that don't hold up--too much of their time perhaps, they dont speak of anything beyond that moment. that one does, so on the list it goes.

ryan, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

impossible to be "objective" and discuss personal tastes

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Which is part of the point, otherwise just let robots pick like they did in 2002.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

In no order:

Taxi Driver
Vertigo
2001
Sansho the Bailiff
Playtime
The Passion of Joan of Arc
The Third Man
A Brighter Summer Day
The Wizard of Oz
Andrei Rublev

Chris L, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric Harvey is selling some back issues:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140747591068#ht_734wt_1000

polyphonic, Thursday, 3 May 2012 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

some ppl are just LIST QUEENS

(prompted by yet another solicitation in my inbox)

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 00:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have less interest in Kurosawa's samurai shit the older I get, i.e. less embarrassment admitting they bore me. I prefer the crime dramas/noir.

Pretty much what I think as well. I can watch High And Low, Ikiru (not noir, but mod. day), Stray Dog, and even the wonky overlong scrambled-Hamlet of The Bad Sleep Well repeatedly, while the period samurai stuff is a chore.

I serve at the pleasure of Dr. Dre and a team of Sorbonne scientists. (R Baez), Saturday, 5 May 2012 00:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'll just get my sword.

Some days I think Ran is his best.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 03:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't remember it too well but the florid nihilism of Kagemusha seemed pretty compelling at the time. I think if I don't count Seven Samurai then Throne of Blood might be my favorite. Not as big a fan of the non-period stuff for some reason.

ryan, Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

High and Low and Ikiru were always my favourites of the non-period stuff. The only one I remember really disliking was Red Beard, but I think I might not have been in the mood. I've seen Seven Samurai a lot of times, and I still love it, but Ran and Throne of Blood are just as good imo.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

some ppl are just LIST QUEENS

So don't contribute.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

(This solicitation was strictly in the interest of driving traffic tho.)

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Still, that I am far more into lists than criticism should not even be a question by this point. Criticism is so, like, just make a movie already.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

i gotta say unless they really expand the number and variety of people polled this is gonna be boring just like the last one. with the explosion of great filmmaking in asia, in particular, scarcely any asian directors--and just a handful of critics/scholars--were polled. it would be great to get all the major "festival" filmmakers from wherever, plus a good handful of more commercial filmmakers, not just from US/UK/France but from taiwan, china, hong kong, india, indonesia, germany, scandinavia, russia, africa (nigeria!), latin america, etc. i don't think the top ten will change much--that only happens glacially--but the individual lists could be somewhat or more than somewhat interesting.

anyway i guess are some peoples that i'd put on a list. maybe i can boil them down to ten later...

take the 5:10 to dreamland (bruce conner)
they were expendable (ford)
me and my gal (walsh)
les vampires (feuillade)
the navigator (keaton)
stranger than paradise (jarmusch)
the man from laramie (anthony mann)
the black stallion (ballard)
vampyr (dreyer)
fantastic mr. fox (anderson)
prénom carmen (godard)
straight time (grosbard)
snow-white (fleischer)
back to the future (zemeckis)
a scene at the sea (kitano)
on dangerous ground (nick ray)
man's castle (borzage)
gueule d'amour (grémillon)
flaming creatures (jack smith)
the exiles (kent mackenzie)
the fall of the house of usher (jean epstein)
too early too late (huillet/straub)
a canterbury tale (michael powell)
earth (dovzhenko)
dr. mabuse the gambler (fritz lang)
the best years of our lives (wyler)
two-lane blacktop (hellman)
ingmarssönerna (sjöström)
on the bowery (rogosin)
days of heaven (malick)
good morning (ozu)
rear window (hitchcock)
etc.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh and

au hasard balthazar (bresson)
distant voices still lives (davies)

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

take the 5:10 to dreamland (bruce conner)

Yes! This or maybe Breakaway.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

fine here's ten

ingmarssönerna (sjöström)

dr. mabuse the gambler (fritz lang)

vampyr (dreyer)

me and my gal (walsh)
a canterbury tale (michael powell)
they were expendable (ford)

good morning (ozu)

au hasard balthazar (bresson)

prénom carmen (godard)
back to the future (zemeckis)

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

So don't contribute.

Take it easy... As you know, I am nearly as ambivalent about criticism as lists. Need to get back to just watching things for the last time.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 05:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, I didn't say you were wrong. I am an unabashed list queen.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 05:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

my new one:

anything but Celine and Julie Go Boating

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 14:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's the spirit.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 5 May 2012 14:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

That reminds me of the one thing that criticism is fun for. Starting Jets vs. Sharks dance riots.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 14:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't consider Ran a samurai drama though.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 5 May 2012 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm also a bit mystified by the love for celine and julie.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 6 May 2012 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm not going to say it's a bad film, but it's certainly an awkward one and i find it extremely irritating. i've liked some other rivette films, though, like secret defense.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 6 May 2012 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

a superfan informed me after my first viewing that it was "a puzzle," I had no idea and was horrified.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 6 May 2012 01:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don't get the mystification around Celine and Julie go Boating as top 10 material. You can make a fairly good case. Agree there are better films by Rivette (but only a couple), however its the one which is most available.

Quite enjoying S&S series looking at an alternative top 10:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/49831

Hour of the Furnaces would be a good one to fuck w/ppl.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 6 May 2012 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

s&s essay on listology was really interesting, I thought

blossom smulch (schlump), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

where was that?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

a superfan informed me after my first viewing that it was "a puzzle," I had no idea and was horrified.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 6 May 2012 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also, I see what the 'superfan' said and all but its not a puzzle to be worked out and put together - but it has elements to be mulled over that hardly add up to a puzzle. To be 'horrified' is an overreaction though.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 7 May 2012 10:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's in the new issue, amateurist, by michael atkinson. tracks when we became interested in listmaking, & how the list ends up being more useful as a gauge of topical mood & trend than as an actual canon.

blossom smulch (schlump), Monday, 7 May 2012 10:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

My ballot would probably be something like this:

1. My Neighbor Totoro (Miyazaki, 1988)
2. Street of Shame (Mizoguchi, 1956)
3. Down by Law (Jarmusch, 1986)
4. Dr. Strangelove (Kubrick, 1964)
5. Human Resources (Cantet, 1999)
6. Stalker (Tarkovsky, 1979)
7. Rashomon (Kurosawa, 1950)
8. Farewell, My Concubine (Kaige, 1993)
9. Show Me Love (Moodysson, 1998)
10. La grande bouffe (Ferreri, 1973)

Depending on my mood, I migth switch The Philadelphia Story for number 10. The only post-1999 movies I could consider including are Songs from the Second Floor (Andersson), and Letters to Father Jaakob (Härö).

Tuomas, Monday, 7 May 2012 10:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

celine and julie is a game rather than a puzzle, and it invites you to play, too

Ward Fowler, Monday, 7 May 2012 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

how the list ends up being more useful as a gauge of topical mood & trend than as an actual canon.

well of course, and the top ten is only occasionally interesting (such as the many restorations/revivals of vertigo helping to propel it upward, ditto sunrise)--it's the individual ballots that are usually most intriguing.

celine & julie just struck me--the two times i sat through it--as flat-footed cinematically, and yet so impressed with itself.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Street of Shame (Mizoguchi, 1956)

love this film so much.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

as my list might indicate i kind of have a slight aversion to "visionary" postwar art films. they just seem too polluted with self-conscious striving for masterpiece status to be top-rank. i'd apply that to tarkovsky, antonioni, fellini, bergman... all of whom have made films i like a lot.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

although i do have some prewar art films: epstein, dovzhenko, etc.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't think many films that wind up in the S&S top 10 are entirely free of 'self-conscious striving for masterpiece status' -- certainly 'sunrise,' 'vertigo,' and 'kane' all have some of that going on.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

sure, i agree. it's the postwar art film's version of that striving that is more likely to turn me off.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

although, having said that, while hitchcock was surely proud of vertigo i'm not sure his ambitions (or the taste contexts in which those ambitions could be validated in 1958) were quite the same as for antonioni et al

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

but notice that sunrise, vertigo, and kane are not on my list either!!

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

no one thinks Celiine et Julie is going to be top ten or twenty or even top 100, probably. was it brought up because Armond White wrote one of his ridiculous smackdowns of it? It's probably in my top 20 fwiw. I just really enjoy it.

jed_, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like 'c and j' a lot, but i think of it as kind of a three-hour remake of 'daisies' with no food fights.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

c and j vs c on t

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

nevermind old joke

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I admittedly prefer "visionary" filmmaking on that order to be so far gone that it doesn't give off any evidence of knowing it can be any other way. Antonioni c. L'eclisse gives me that impression.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 02:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Antonioni even at his best is one step too close to SCTV for me

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

So, awesome?

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Andrea Martin > Monica Vitti

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Zabriskie Point = Farm Film Report

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah antonioni seems like one of the most overrated filmmakers, even though i appreciate almost everything he's done to some degree or other (however that does NOT include beyond the clouds, yeesh)

there is so much that is wonderful about his "alienation trilogy" or whatever but to some extent i think they're not so much about emptiness as just kind of empty.

his first feature, chronicle of a love affair, is a stone masterpiece, and i can't deny l'avventura or the passenger either.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

reeeal good! xp

I generally don't have a problem with masters striving to make masterpieces. Trying to argue that either Godfather is top-10 when Coppola can't figure out what to do with Diane Keaton, that's a problem.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

i love manny farber's quote, "Unlike Klee, who stayed small and thus almost evaded affectation, Antonioni's aspiration is to pin the viewer to the wall and slug him with wet towels of artiness and significance."

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'd make an exception to my "rule" for playtime, which is definitely a postwar art film striving to be a masterpiece, but does so lightly and pretty much achieves everything it sets out to do--which has little to do with "significance."

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure I can really get on board with an aesthetics of smallness and lightness. Seems unduly limited. What's wrong with "significance"?

In any case I see Antonioni et al as heir to a certain strand of 19th century novel. Like the whole "novel of ideas" thing. Melville, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky. And fwiw I find the "visionary" approach far freer than the evasion of "significance."

ryan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

that farber quote is kind of symptomatic of why he's a brilliant writer but often frustrating as a critic -- he's holding antonioni to an insane standard. it's like when he complains that 'taxi driver' is unrealistic because de niro's cab never runs out of gas.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 05:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dunno, his quote is a pretty accurate description of much of red desert

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 06:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm not really offering an aesthetic program, just stating my preferences when the chips are down. that's what the thread is about no?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 06:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yes of course. Didn't mean to give impression I was calling you out! (I actually really find your preferences in this regard really challenging and interesting so maybe just pushing back a little.)

ryan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 06:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

And I guess this kernel of a debate is interesting to me because it touches on how we think about something like "modernism" in movies.

ryan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 06:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was looking through some of the 2002 ballots and this one probably comes closest to my taste:

Peter von Bagh
director of Il cinema ritrovato festival
Finland
Top Ten

The Wedding March (von Stroheim)
Okraina (Barnet)
Make Way for Tomorrow (McCarey)
A Canterbury Tale (Powell, Pressburger)
Late Spring (Ozu)
Rio Grande (Ford)
Édouard et Caroline (Becker)
Bigger Than Life (N. Ray)
Man of the West (A. Mann)
And Life Goes On... (Kiarostami)

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

the japanese know where it's at too:

Li Cheuk-To
Chairman of the Hong Kong Critics Guild
Hong Kong
Top Ten

Au hasard Balthazar (Bresson)
Floating Clouds (Naruse)
The General (Keaton)
Mirror (Tarkovsky)
Pather Panchali (S. Ray)
The Puppetmaster (Hou)
Spring in a Small Town (Fei)
Tabu (Murnau)
Two or Three Things I Know about Her (Godard)
Vertigo (Hitchcock)

Yomota Inuhiko
Meiji Gakuin University
Japan
Top Ten

Kaagaz ke phool (Dutt)
The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums (Mizoguchi)
A Touch of Zen (Hu)
L'Age d'or (Buñuel)
Le Vent d'est (Godard)
Accattone (Pasolini)
Vampyr (Dreyer)
Napoléon (Gance)
Il deserto rosso (Antonioni)
Au hasard Balthazar (Bresson)

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

L'Age d'Or (Bunuel, 1930)
M (Lang, 1931)
Kikujiro (Kitano, 1999)
The Maltese Falcon (Huston, 1941)
Mishima (Schrader, 1985)
A Canterbury Tale (Powell & Pressburger, 1944)
Days and Nights in the Forest (Ray, 1970)
Zero de Conduite (Vigo, 1933)
For a Few Dollars More (Leone, 1965)
The Man Who Knew Too Much (Hitchcock, 1934)

like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 09:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if I expect Joel David's list to ever be topped.

Salò (Pasolini)
Manila by Night; City after Dark (Bernal)
Khalnayak (Ghai)
The Opening of Misty Beethoven (Metzger)
Hour of the Furnaces (Solanas)
La Règle du jeu (Renoir)
God Told Me To (Cohen)
La Région centrale (Snow)
Olympiad Berlin 1936 (Riefenstahl)
The Devil in Miss Jones (Damiano)

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

And fwiw I find the "visionary" approach far freer than the evasion of "significance."

Yeah, one of the major reasons I've never been able to get with the deification of screwball ethos.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

how is screwball (which you sometimes broaden to mean "wacky comedy," but let's lay that aside) inherently less significant than horror? Both offer a vision of human trials that aim to reveal character.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 13:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

to argue that either Godfather is top-10 when Coppola can't figure out what to do with Diane Keaton, that's a problem.

We've argued this before...My problem with Keaton is more the woodenness of her performance (sometimes she's okay) than Coppola not knowing what to do with her. But to me, there are supporting performances just as wooden in The Searchers and Vertigo.

clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Both offer a vision of human trials that aim to reveal character.

Horror offers a representation of a universal human emotion, one which is easily transmuted over to experiences (i.e. mechanized dehumanization) not necessarily closely related to the thing being represented (i.e. chainsaw massacres). Wacky comedy reveals people trying to make people laugh, which is fine, but usually it's better when my friends do it to me.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I see way more of my life in comedy. And invariably find comedy in the best horror too.

(I guess I won't quote Michael O'Donoghue's "Making people laugh is the lowest form of comedy" again. Oops! Jerry Lewis's best films don't make me laugh that much.)

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Agreed, I like Jerry Lewis movies because they are basically horror movies.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wonder whether Criterion reissues of his later films have made L'Avventura less an obvious choice for inclusion. These days I'd rank L'Eclisse over it.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ me, on all days

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

In any case I see Antonioni et al as heir to a certain strand of 19th century novel. Like the whole "novel of ideas" thing. Melville, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky. And fwiw I find the "visionary" approach far freer than the evasion of "significance."

Kael cited Woolf, Mann, Joyce, and James in her review ("In any case I see Antonioni et al as heir to a certain strand of 19th century novel. Like the whole "novel of ideas" thing. Melville, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky. And fwiw I find the "visionary" approach far freer than the evasion of "'significance.'")

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wacky comedy reveals people trying to make people laugh

almost never, if you're talking about the people on the screen.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm always surprised when I remember Kael actually liked L'avventura.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wacky comedy reveals people trying to make people laugh, which is fine, but usually it's better when my friends do it to me.

You're too short for that gesture.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm also too pale for Miami, but I still look forward to having a face-to-face with you in which we trade nothing but AAE lines. Some snowy night, in front of the fire.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Killer to killer!

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Very effective. But why take it out on me?

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

this whole "which genre is more profound" is a pretty stupid exercise.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everybody has pretty stupid exercises, except some people.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

pretty stupid exercise vs reverse massage

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

remove bookmark

the acquisition and practice of music is unfavourable to the health of (abanana), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

One good bookmark removal and you'll be rid of that Miss Caswell forever.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Back to the Copacabana.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

no way are there any wooden performances in 'vertigo'!

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

if jerry lewis counts as horror, surely 'bringing up baby' does.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's not like the Tom Helmore villain in Vertigo is supposed to evoke (or display) passionate feelings, he's just an enigma / agent of chaos.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the spectacle of Cary Grant leaping gay is sort of a horrorshow.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's 'night of the living dead' with hepburn starring as the zombies

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kael cited Woolf, Mann, Joyce, and James in her review ("In any case I see Antonioni et al as heir to a certain strand of 19th century novel. Like the whole "novel of ideas" thing. Melville, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky. And fwiw I find the "visionary" approach far freer than the evasion of "'significance.'")

The films are visually incredibly exciting but the narratives are often so lacking (not in a bad way -- always feel they are giving way to more important things), and what they have to say about anything so thin that I can't quite see this comparison coming off.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 20:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, she meant that the film approaches on visual terms the "heft" of what the modernists attempted.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yes and for my part i think the comparison holds in the sense of that those novels were kind of an arena for entertaining philosophical ideas.

ryan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Why not compare it w/modernist painting, sculpture and architecture then which also perhaps entertain ideas that might be of a philosophical bent?

OK, guess she was a writer but still..

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 20:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Those prob are better forms of comparison!

ryan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Theater too

ryan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think she mentions painting in her review.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

no way are there any wooden performances in 'vertigo'!

If you agree that it's as great as its reputation, I'm sure that's true.

clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

so weird that Kim Novak was a star

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure her tentativeness was part of her charm

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Have you read Truffaut's Hitchcock book? I think he was mostly charmed by her sweaters.

clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

that doesn't excuse Hitchcock though

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

no way are there any wooden performances in 'vertigo'!

If you agree that it's as great as its reputation, I'm sure that's true.

i kinda think that the whole distinction between 'wooden' and 'non-wooden' performances is flawed when you're talking about a director like hitch, who manipulated his actors to such an extent that they almost have a purely functional role in most of his films. it's a bit like the weird kids' performances in 'night of the hunter' -- they're not miscalculations on the director's part, they're part of the texture of the film. given what kim novak is asked to do in 'vertigo' i honestly cannot imagine any other actress doing a better job. whereas i don't think even ppl who think 'the searchers' is top 10-worthy think that jeffrey hunter and vera miles and, hell, half of the cast give particularly good performances.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

but what the performance of Natalie Wood's makeup?

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

I know this is a minority (and then some) opinion, but I find everybody in Vertigo bland to one degree or another. I like its weirdness, like the music and the direction, and love the dream sequence. Because of the performances--whether they're functional or not--there's a limit to how much I like the film overall. (It's abstract speculation, but I can imagine a number of better actresses filling that role.) I realize no one who loves the film is going to agree.

clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

ward bond gives a perfect performance in the searchers. i find the 'texture of the film' argument unconvincing

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Vertigo is not one of my top five Hitch films.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

i find anti-'vertigo' sentiment much more bewildering than any other kind of great fillum challops so there's prob no place for me in this argument

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't dislike it but it's not one I rewatch it and when I do my attention wanders, notably during Madeleine's zombie moments.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

chris marker's long essay on vertigo ends...

"Obviously, this text is addressed to those who know Vertigo by heart. But do those who don’t deserve anything at all?"

which makes me smile.

ps, i have not seen Vertigo.

jed_, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

One obvious thing that links Vertigo with The Searchers is the way Stewart and Wayne discombobulate their personas with such creepily obsessive characters--you can see blueprints earlier on (It's a Wonderful Life, Red River), but I can't remember them ever being so unpleasant. Between the two of them, I actually think Wayne gives the better performance...or at least the one I'd rather watch.

I hate the word challops. Vertigo's unassailable reputation is a relatively (as in the last 30 years) recent phenomenon--because of its longtime unavailability, it was hardly a revered film from the outset. I saw it for the first time around '82 or '83, a bootleg print, and I had mixed feelings then.

clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

i saw it once, when i was a teenager, and i was bored by it. maybe i'd get more out of it now

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Vertigo is the best.

bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Vertigo is astonishing, challops be damned. If nothing else it charted my own descent into cinephilia.

ryan, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 01:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

clemenza apparently finds James Stewart, Necrophile "bland."

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 01:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, I think I acknowledged directly above that Stewart playing against type makes an impression. It's just not one I ever feel compelled to go back to. Maybe bland is the wrong word. I just don't enjoy the performance very much. And it's not because the character's creepy; I could name dozens of creepy characters who've never stopped fascinating me. (Necrophiliacs are inherently interesting? Also, and sorry for being so literal, but does an obsession with someone who reminds you of someone who died make you a necrophiliac?)

clemenza, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 02:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

If you put her in the corpse's clothes, could be. (But that's reductive anyhoo)

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 02:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cinema is death 24 fps et al

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 03:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

add me to the list of hitch lovers who is not esp keen on vertigo, beautiful to look at, i get all the fetishism and play w identity, but as an actual watching experience, i find it a bit on the dull side

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 07:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

did we ever get a ruling on whether tv movies count before i submit my fake ballot?

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

You can put a YouTube video on your ballot for all it counts.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

if i really did get a ballot the temptation to be silly would be too great

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think if queen of the dammed places we'll know which ilxor to blame

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Annie Hall
Fanny and Alexander
Night of the Hunter
Aguirre: The Wrath of God
Jackie Brown
Blade Runner
Touch of Evil
Wings of Desire
North By Northwest
Jules and Jim

Look at how funky he is! (jer.fairall), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

if i really did get a ballot the temptation to be silly would be too great

Mostly I'd have to make the choice whether to have one token pick or go full-tilt gay. A ballot with one Pink Narcissus is fine. A ballot filled with Boom, Mommie Dearest, Un Chant d'amour, Showgirls and All About Eve is also fine. A ballot with 2 or 3 slots mixed in along with, say, Gertrud, Taste of Cherry and/or Rear Window looks a little weird.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

A very big vote will take place in my grade 6 class sometime in the next few weeks. As I always do in conjunction with Welles' birthday (May 6), I showed them the first three minutes of Kane. They were definitely interested--a lot more than they were in MCA's death. I told them about the S&S poll, dramatically announcing that it was voted #1 in 1962, in 1972, etc. So I'll give them a choice soon as to whether they want to watch Kane, Bridge to Terabithia (we read the novel), or Where the Wild Things Are. Bridge will win, but I'm predicting three or four votes for Kane.

clemenza, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 23:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

A friend sent me a link this afternoon where a local critic writes about his first-ever invitation and shares his list. This critic used to write about pop music in the '90s; he's at a newspaper where music writers generally go on to something deemed more important, like film or politics or reality television. He was not a good music writer.

1. 2001: A Space Odyssey
2. The Tree of Life
3. In the Mood for Love
4. Vertigo
5. Metropolis
6. Tokyo Story
7. Playtime
8. La dolce vita
9. Apocalypse Now
10. Sunrise

Each pick is accompanied by a brief one-sentence comment.

I know I shouldn't do this, but the truth is--largely based on my memories of him as a music writer--I don't trust this list at all. In the accompanying piece he writes, "'Cue panic,' tweeted British critic Guy Lodge, when he received his own invite. As a fellow Sight & Sound poll virgin, I know exactly how he feels: What if I screw this up?" I guess I should appreciate the self-deprecation, but that's exactly how the list strikes me: "I think this is what you want--do I get a gold star now?" I mean, what does "What if I screw this up?" even mean? How do you screw up what is supposed to be, as I understand it, a list of your favourite films? (It's probably telling that his list is titled "________________'s 10 Greatest Films." You can go around and around forever on the distinction, or whether there is one--and I have.)

clemenza, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

as long as The Shawshank Redemption isn't on there, it gets a pass from me.

ryan, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, that's one more ballot in #teamvertigo's favor.

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

also, 2 votes for newest Malick, too. o_0

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

(with Ebert's)

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think as a list by and more importantly FOR film critics/academics/passionate laymen/etc yeah it's pretty boring, but that's a decent list for someone newly interested in older or classic films, and at least a few of those would hit home with most people. films like that are good landmarks for finding your way around to a more personal or even idiosyncratic relationship to movies.

ryan, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Still can't shake my hunch that S&S's big innovation for 2012 is a third list comprised totally of new media votes.

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

feel like the list after 20 or so is gonna be pretty interesting this time.

ryan, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm doing something I try not to do anymore (i.e., I used to do it), which is to start analyzing someone's motivations for liking/disliking something, rather than just accept what they say at face value. It's also the Kael part of me that I'll probably never shake--she once had a line to the effect that she didn't trust people whose tastes were too exquisite.

clemenza, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

she was the proto-internet in many ways

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Picking 10 films wouldn't say much about my taste in films, just my taste in symbolism.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 May 2012 00:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

ie, it's almost as much a fraud as the presidential election.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 May 2012 00:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

was wondering how you were gonna work that in there. nice.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

How many of you would shy away from voting for a film just because it's new(ish)? Do you feel that a film needs to gather a little dust and gain a little paunch before you would feel comfortable calling it one of the ten best films ever, or would you be comfortable declaring the all-time greatness of a film that just came out the previous year? I'm just asking in general, not specifically about the film whose title I'm obviously tiptoeing around (Green Lantern).

Quiet Desperation, LLC (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

that is yr most shameless troll evah

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 May 2012 03:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think it was a joke

yeah, i'd be reluctant to throw a brand-newish film on there. i think that's true of most folks. in the 2002 poll there were very few films from the mid-late 1990s on there.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 04:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

i might vote for a 90s film. maybe even early 00s. last five years just seems iffy for reasons i cant even fully explain/defend.

me so fat (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 24 May 2012 04:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm waiting to see the raven at the local 2nd run theater before i finalize anything.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am kinda with you in just fliply dismissing that guy's list as sorta boring, clemenza. i think i have made ilx lists and caved to pressure to include some canon titles so it doesn't look like i'm above them/so it looks like i know what i'm talking about.

who was the guy who made the weirdest list ever. i liked that guy. i'd be into including some recent stuff - didn't someone here refer to like millennial antiseptic arthouse, as a genre? that kinda thing. kiarostamis and tsais. there's gotta be some of the like internationally-fetishised breakout new international cinemas picks in the next poll.

blossom smulch (schlump), Thursday, 24 May 2012 10:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

calling Kiarostami "antiseptic" is weird, Tsai too given all the stagnant water.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 May 2012 11:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

no you're right. i'm just throwing them all in together as ambassadors of new-thoughtful-world-cinemas. i think i read antiseptic as pretty much referring to tsai, though, or at least very delicate & deliberate branches of contemplative new stuff.

blossom smulch (schlump), Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure that Summer Hours would place somewhere in my top fifty, and I've "only" seen it twice. As for Tsai or Hou, any person who's absorbed one of their films is justified in placing one of them on a personal list, if that makes sense.

go down on you in a thyatrr (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

So who would be on that list?

Tsai
Hou
Kiarostami
Dardennes
Tarr
Haneke
Weerasethakul
Assayas
Jia
Costa
Reygadas
Denis

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Definitely Dardennes, Denis, Hou, Tsai, Joe.

go down on you in a thyatrr (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 May 2012 13:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Angelopoulos might be timely. I can imagine he would've got some votes in the past. Akerman, Martel. & depending how recent we get, the sorta Eastern contingent of Bilge Ceylan, Puiu, Mungiu.

i didn't love Summer Hours a lot? but I'm slightly blank to Assayas and Ozon &c.

blossom smulch (schlump), Thursday, 24 May 2012 13:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Much more of a Desplechin guy myself. Not that he'd show up on a hypothetical S&S ballot or anything.

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Thursday, 24 May 2012 13:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

who was the guy who made the weirdest list ever

It wasn't Sight and Sound, but in one of James Monaco's handbooks, he surveyed a bunch of writers on the best American film between '68 and '77 or thereabouts. I remember B. Ruby Rich co-compiled a list with somebody, and it had stuff like Beyond the Valley of the Dolls and Ganja and Hess (way pre-internet, i.e. at a time when those films weren't such a fact of life). Wish I could remember the whole list, it really jumped out from the others.

clemenza, Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

kiarostami is pretty sui generis, tsai is much more emblematic of the sort of asian "slow cinema" that (used to?) burn a lot of critics up.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

tsai seems like a bit of a trend-chaser to me, actually, albeit an accomplished one. long takes? check. new extremity? check. etc.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Someone asked me recently who the best US directors of the last 25-30 years were, and I rather quickly answered Spielberg and Haynes. I suspect they are pigeonholed as too "popcorn" (still) and "academic," respectively, to pop up in many top 10s.

(likely more in this new media subset Eric refers to)

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh i think haynes will turn up

lots of critics still have bias against spielberg, i doubt that will change much this time out and even if it did, there isn't really a consensus favorite. e.t.? raiders? jaws? jurassic park? schindler's fucking list?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd say the critical cult around him has mostly centered on ET, Empire of the Sun, AI, and Munich. Maybe Close Encounters too, among the undying Paulettes.

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Love watching J.Ro walk around and occasionally throw shade at the camera.

Count-Dracula-Down (Eric H.), Thursday, 24 May 2012 16:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Ignaty Vishnevetsky demonstrates his random method and how he ended up with three films from 1981: http://blogs.indiewire.com/pressplay/video-sight-sound-film-poll-ignatiy-vishnevetsky-on-how-to-make-a-random-top-ten-list?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 28 June 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

A nice defense of L'avventura (which I, for one, would love to see return to the top 10):

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/great-wide-open-l-avventura

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

(I mean, given it can't really be L'eclisse.)

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'd absolutely put it in my top 10

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I doubt I would put any Antonioni in my top 100, even though I like four or five of his films very much. I felt guilty about this til I read how much Orson Welles disliked his portentousness.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's this great welles interview where he admits he refuses to see any movie longer than 100 minutes.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

that musta been pretty late, he claimed to love The Last Picture Show (118 m)

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, remember who was intellecutally fellating him in the early seventies

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes but.... he was a bit of a fibber, I've heard

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Just because I love L'eclisse more than L'avventura now doesn't mean I'd exclude the latter from my top hundred.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

ranked all-time lists are idiotic; there, I said it

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Lock thread.

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just think film critics should aspire to being more than music critics who don't hear so well.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

didn't know the S&S critics from '62 were music critics in cineaste clothing

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 July 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like ranked all-time lists.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think you should let people play the games they want to play, Morbs.

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

knock yerself out

'62 critics had half as many films to deal with.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like ranked all-time lists.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:36 (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

which are your ten favourite

, Blogger (schlump), Monday, 30 July 2012 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

There's no way to stop it,
No, there's no way to stop it,
If the earth wants to roll around the sun.
You're a fool if you worry.
You're a fool if you worry,
Over anything but little number one.

http://www.slantmagazine.com/house/2012/07/if-i-had-a-sight-sound-film-ballot/

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

are there any more Special Projects to come this summer, besides the one I'm 3 weeks late on? Possibly a "Call Me Maybe" lipsync?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

I already said by email I would participate in 2022.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Pssssssh, My goal by 2022 is to have a real ballot.

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 20:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

wha, now that you've practically quit?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've quit caring about the actual criticism. I haven't quit writing it.

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

< / sarcasm > < / obv >

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 20:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

which are your ten favourite

― , Blogger (schlump), Monday, July 30, 2012 7:58 PM (16 minutes ago)

i posted mine up-thread, probably wouldn't change it much now.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

After Death (Bauer, 15)
The Scarlet Empress (Von Sternberg, 34)
L'eclisse (Antonioni, 61)
La Jetee (Marker, 62)
Simon of the Desert (Bunuel, 65)
Weekend (Godard, 67)
Pink Narcissus (Bidgood, 71)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Hooper, 74)
Satantango (Tarr, 94)
Showgirls (Verhoeven, 95)
― jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:21 AM (2 months ago)

Six of these ended up on my "if I had a ballot" ballot for House, without having even double-checked here first.

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 20:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Expect the silent era to fade out of all such polls w/in 20 years.

(Even faster than cinema will.)

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

LOL, faster than cinema will fade out of movie polls? Pretty Armond, even for you.

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 20:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

no, out of life

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not as long as there are polls to keep approximately 250 movies from the entirety of movie history alive.

Eric H., Monday, 30 July 2012 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

what is ur favourite movie Shawshank or Avatar

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha i meant your fav lists
xp @ JD

, Blogger (schlump), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha! i like whichever greil marcus list it was where he listed 'germfree adolescents' as the greatest album of all time.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

in the last joan didion book a quotation was opened by a wrong-facing pair of inverted commas. a joan didion book.

, Blogger (schlump), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait wrong thread

, Blogger (schlump), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

but surely part of a similar decline in critical thought

, Blogger (schlump), Monday, 30 July 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha! i like whichever greil marcus list it was where he listed 'germfree adolescents' as the greatest album of all time

Second Gambaccini Top 100 albums book...sorry; back to Sight & Sound.

clemenza, Monday, 30 July 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

i only have the first of those books! could you post marcus's list, clemenza?

if i recall GM's list from the first book -- from 1977, i think -- was pretty unsurprising, with 'let it bleed' at the top and 'more chuck berry' somewhere in there. ('more chuck berry,' a long-forgotten collection, wound up in a surprising number of lists.)

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 21:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just have the first one too, but I tracked his list down here: http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/steveparker/world_critics_lists.htm. Pertinent to this thread, wish I could find the list of 10 favorite American films for the years 1968-77 he contributed to a James Monaco book...I know Across 110th Street was on there, and I think Thieves Like Us.

clemenza, Monday, 30 July 2012 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

thanks for that!

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 21:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

see, NOW lock thread

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 July 2012 23:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

With almost 850 critics in the mix (!!!), I guess I don't see how the law of averages doesn't keep S&S '12 big time status quo.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also sort of bummed that only a fraction of the lists will be in print in the magazine.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

there are too many 'critics,' obviously. NOW I'm pissed I wasn't picked.

Anyway, the newbies can't reach consensus. A quarter will make batshit picks, a quarter to a half will show the same level of imagination as the annual oh-eff-sea-ess awards, and the rest will be in the middle.

Love that Elise N picked 4 comedies, as you must be. :)

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

where is The Dark Knight on your ballot?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

ignore my early morning syntax, plz

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost I love diversity. It opens the door for me to be my batshit self.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

NOW I'm pissed I wasn't picked.

Word on the street is that a ballot could've been had for the asking. GTK for '22.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

speaking of bats

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

and hooray for the staus quo, considering the alternative.

To hear the word on the street I'd have to communicate with other writers. Doesn't happen much.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Considering the alternative is recognizing The Magnificent Ambersons, Touch of Evil, Chimes at Midnight, F For Fake and The Trial are all roughly equally as great as Kane.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do I need a Tweet account to follow Tweet countdowns? I don't have one.

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric, I think you mean Othello and The Lady from Shanghai. You might have a leg to stand on with Ambersons if we actually, you know, had the film.

F for GTFO

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Nah, their Tweets aren't protected.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

That too. Point being, the longer Citizen Kane holds the top position when there are at least a half-dozen other films from Welles alone that are of equal stature, the goofier this "status quo" continues to look.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

even if I ceded your point, which of those Welleses are the troops going to rally behind? and yr chief reason for dismissing Kane seems to be that you're tired of it showing up.

Isn't it just as goofy to play musical chairs with titles for the hell of it?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

All part of the game, party animal.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah well, u know me. It's an echo chamber anyhow. The general public is sticking to Marvel adaptations.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Does Chris Marker generally show up on many lists? I don't mean to be crass, but if the voting had taken place a month from now, maybe La jetée or Sans Soleil might have made it into the Top 20. Pather Panchali jumped into the Top 10 the year Ray died (though I'm not sure how close the poll was to his death in April). Immediate sentiment can be powerful when it comes to polls and awards.

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's an echo chamber anyhow. The general public is sticking to Marvel adaptations.

Keep reaching for the stars. Maybe someday I'll give up this list-chasing and be the real critic you want me to be.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

does S&S have a running-time requirement?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

No, someone listed a TV commercial last time around, I think.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 13:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

clemenza: apparently, in S&S 2002, La Jetee got 3 votes, Sans Soleil one. So as a commenter on a popular Hollywood blog wrote yesterday, "Who the fuck is Chris Marker?"

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thought Jetee had managed 4 votes, but maybe not. (Also, the pool in '02 was much, much smaller.)

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Who is Sylvia?

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

the S&S/BFI site(s) are kind of a disaster to navigate.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yes, but I'm also gathering from the tweets that they aren't even fixing to upload the database for a few more weeks. They're likely just counting down the top 10 tomorrow.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought I remembered Marker's name showing up in individual lists more than that--maybe there were other films of his that got a vote or two (or, more likely, maybe my memory is faulty). I wonder how big a story the list itself will be this time. You may have the paradox that, as the world in general becomes more list-happy, the Sight and Sound Top 10 becomes less of a big deal than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

nah, the 2012 poll will be a bigger deal than ever, precisely because it's been around so long. it has a historical backstory - and a list of contributors - that no other film poll can match

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Did someone actually put Dark Knight on their ballot?

to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

I hope you're right. I guess I'm thinking about the glut of lists, even all-time ones like S&S. I'm not sure if Pazz & Jop commands the attention it did 10 or 20 years ago (not a knock--I'm literally not sure), even though the voter's list is ever expanding. Or maybe a better comparison is the year-end film poll in The Voice, which hardly gets any notice at all. (xpost)

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

but that's largely bcz the VV has become a joke

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Did the film poll ever really take off, even when Hoberman was running it? I was always surprised that it never seemed to. It just seems like a different time. But maybe you're right, maybe the Sight and Sound poll transcends that.

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

also, if citizen kane really is knocked off the top this time, won't that be a big deal?

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Before the Film Comment poll became a big deal, the Voice one was probably the most closely followed of its kind.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

is the Film Comment one a big deal? I know that mag's been going for a long time but I'm always expecting it to announce it's ceasing publication.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

my impression is that the Indiewire one and FC count the most for film weenies.

as for the mag, I dunno, but it's the house organ of the Film Society of Lincoln Center, which just opened 2 new screens. So that means it's safe, maybe?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

This says more about me than the polls myself, but I just tried to name all the Pazz & Jop album winners for the '80s from memory--got every one. Can you name the last ten Film Comment year-end winners, Morbius? Can you name the last five?

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

"than the polls themselves"

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't name my last 5 meals

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

last year hadda be Tree of Life

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

What I'm saying: 1) polls/lists are more ubiquitous than ever, and 2) therefore individual polls/lists are less prominent than they used to be, but 3) Sight and Sound could very well be an exception, and 4) yes, Kane getting displaced would almost certainly be a story.

clemenza, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

who remembered that Vertigo was #2 last time? I didn't.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

And wearing it like a badge of honor.

Eric H., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/SightSoundmag/status/230632027056136192

"A tidbit: critics and directors have voted different #1 films."

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 12:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

The margin between Kane and the runner up was a lot wider with directors than critics last time, but I'm still sensing this means Godfather or 8.5 lands #1 on directors.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 12:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I suspect I am going to vent my anti-Shining mania for publication before the summer is out.
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, April 30, 2012 1:34 PM (3 months ago)

In the form of a piece on Full Metal Jacket?

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

if it ever gets written

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

(really wouldn't deal with The Shining in more than half a sentence)

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

looks like the collective Sl4nt #1 may be Duck Soup!

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if they're planning on compiling those ballots into a conglomerate list, but I do know what Ed told me was the most-mentioned film and it IS a comedy. Just not that one.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also, we get linked first but called called the "Salon des Refusés" in S&S's collection of links about the poll:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/sight-sound-magazine/polls-surveys/greatest-films-all-time-2012/greatest-films-all-time-comment-around-web

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

I blew it by choosing the other more labor-intensive project instead of this one. IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN ABOUT THEM AT THE SAME TIME, eh?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Due date on the other project was nearly a month ago iirc.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm talking about yet a different one.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, my senior thesis was late too, I didn't get paid for that either.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

I love how everyone on Twitter is now using the phrase "word on the street" re: Vertigo usurping Kane.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

word on the Vertigo street

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok, in the alley, then

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Word on Lombard Street

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

There were three ladies, all in their 60s, talking about it this morning at the donut shop where I have coffee every day.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Can't wait for the instant "Hitchcock has a dozen films as good as Vertigo"/"Kane is kind of underrated" revisionism.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

got a boost from ppl sharing Kim Novak's distaste for French soundtrack-pinching?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

vertigo as no.1 was the final story on the BBC news this evening. so i take it we have confirmation.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sight & Sound ‏@SightSoundmag
Anyone know how to do a half sign on an iPad?

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

BBC has broken the full results:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19078948

prolego, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Citizen Kane not number one on either list!

prolego, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sad day...sort of, not really. Change is good. I don't have any major protective feelings about Kane, even though I much prefer it to its usurper. I do continue to find a 30-year trajectory from unavailable to greatest-film-ever-made strange.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Taxi Driver fifth on directors' list, wow.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

hmmm...I thought The Passion of Joan of Arc made the cut fifty years ago?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Holy crap! Double backlash leads to two #2 ranks!

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

TBH, I'm having a way harder time wrapping my head around the directors picking Tokyo Story #1 over critics picking Vertigo.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

In: Searchers, Man with a Movie Camera, Passion of Joan of Arc
Out: Godfather, Battleship Potemkin, Singin' in the Rain

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

(^Critix list)

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

is that The Mirror's first appearance on either one? p sure it would make mine.

My biggest gtfo is reserved for Apocalypse Now.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Where's Pulp Fiction?! wtf

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

First time ever that Potemkin hasn't been Top 10, I think.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Three out of 10 silents should quell some complaints...yes, I'm looking at you.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

needs Keaton or Chaplin

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sea change at #1 aside, this might actually be the most ancient set of top 10 movies ever for S&S.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

By a matter of a few years, on average, no doubt, but still.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

movies are older than ever.

where are the Iranians?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

You're right in terms of the gap: 33 years for the newest film on either list. (They've mis-dated Taxi Driver.) That gap has been widening with every new list; in 1972, it was six years.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Site seems down, but apparently their full top 50 is now online.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe they need a different 3 lists:

to 1939
1939-75
1976-2022

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

I didn't mean the gap. I meant if you averaged out the years represented I think you'd get literally the earliest year for this poll since 1952.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess my second category should read 1940-75.

Is the concept that classics in an artform need the 'test of time' all that surprising? Even if everyone voted for, say, a '90s film, they'd be all over the place.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I know you meant the average, but I find the gap interesting too--consciously or not, it's an indicator of where voters cumulatively set the bar at what's an acceptable passage of time before deifying something, almost like the mandatory waiting period for entrance into a hall of fame.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Fingers still crossed that maybe Mulholland Dr. found its way into the top 25-ish.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

@HellOnFriscoBay

New to the #sightandsoundpoll critics' Top 20 this year: Man With A Movie Camera (#8) Apocalypse Now (#14) Late Spring (#15) Mirror (#19)

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Pretty astonished at Late Spring @ #15.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

La Jetee makes #50! (Too low, but I'll take it!)

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Can you post a link where you're getting these, Eric?

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

surprised that Mirror is the Tarkovsky pick.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hah, I'm getting it from Twitter, but S&S did tweet out this link (they appear to be getting slammed by traffic from 850 critics ATM):

http://bfi.org.uk/news/50-greatest-films-all-time

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Presumably a few people managed to see the page before it went down.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

@nathansbeard

Ecstatically pleased with the high ranking of In The Mood For Love as the most recent film at #24 on the #sightsoundpoll

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

So glad to see Mulholland Dr represented at #28, Persona at #17, and Apocalypse Now at #14 #sightsoundpoll

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

@HellOnFriscoBay

L'avventura falls out of the #sightsoundpoll top 20 (to #21) for the first time since it was made, in 1960. It nabbed the #2 slot in 1962.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thanks--the page won't load for me.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

11. Battleship Potemkin

Sergei Eisenstein, 1925 (63 votes)

12. L’Atalante

Jean Vigo, 1934 (58 votes)

13. Breathless

Jean-Luc Godard, 1960 (57 votes)

14. Apocalypse Now

Francis Ford Coppola, 1979 (53 votes)

15. Late Spring

Ozu Yasujiro, 1949 (50 votes)

16. Au hasard Balthazar

Robert Bresson, 1966 (49 votes)

17= Seven Samurai

Kurosawa Akira, 1954 (48 votes)

17= Persona

Ingmar Bergman, 1966 (48 votes)

19. Mirror

Andrei Tarkovsky, 1974 (47 votes)

20. Singin’ in the Rain

Stanley Donen & Gene Kelly, 1951 (46 votes)

21= L’avventura

Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960 (43 votes)

21= Le Mépris

Jean-Luc Godard, 1963 (43 votes)

21= The Godfather

Francis Ford Coppola, 1972 (43 votes)

24= Ordet

Carl Dreyer, 1955 (42 votes)

24= In the Mood for Love

Wong Kar-Wai, 2000 (42 votes)

26= Rashomon

Kurosawa Akira, 1950 (41 votes)

26= Andrei Rublev

Andrei Tarkovsky, 1966 (41 votes)

28. Mulholland Dr.

David Lynch, 2001 (40 votes)

29= Stalker

Andrei Tarkovsky, 1979 (39 votes)

29= Shoah

Claude Lanzmann, 1985 (39 votes)

31= The Godfather Part II

Francis Ford Coppola, 1974 (38 votes)

31= Taxi Driver

Martin Scorsese, 1976 (38 votes)

33. Bicycle Thieves

Vittoria De Sica, 1948 (37 votes)

34. The General

Buster Keaton & Clyde Bruckman, 1926 (35 votes)

35= Metropolis

Fritz Lang, 1927 (34 votes)

35= Psycho

Alfred Hitchcock, 1960 (34 votes)

35= Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce 1080 Bruxelles

Chantal Akerman, 1975 (34 votes)

35= Sátántangó

Béla Tarr, 1994 (34 votes)

39= The 400 Blows

François Truffaut, 1959 (33 votes)

39= La dolce vita

Federico Fellini, 1960 (33 votes)

41. Journey to Italy

Roberto Rossellini, 1954 (32 votes)

42= Pather Panchali

Satyajit Ray, 1955 (31 votes)

42= Some Like It Hot

Billy Wilder, 1959 (31 votes)

42= Gertrud

Carl Dreyer, 1964 (31 votes)

42= Pierrot le fou

Jean-Luc Godard, 1965 (31 votes)

42= Play Time

Jacques Tati, 1967 (31 votes)

42= Close-Up

Abbas Kiarostami, 1990 (31 votes)

48= The Battle of Algiers

Gillo Pontecorvo, 1966 (30 votes)

48= Histoire(s) du cinéma

Jean-Luc Godard, 1998 (30 votes)

50= City Lights

Charlie Chaplin, 1931 (29 votes)

50= Ugetsu monogatari

Mizoguchi Kenji, 1953 (29 votes)

50= La Jetée

Chris Marker, 1962 (29 votes)

i invented steampunk (askance johnson), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

except for the different rankings the top twenty isn't much different from earlier editions

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

satantango #35. that has to be a new entry right?

Hungry4Ass, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Damn, Godfather not even the top-ranked Coppola movie anymore.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thanks, AJ. The Godfather really tumbled, I guess having to do with splitting up the first two this time.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

42= Gertrud
Carl Dreyer, 1964 (31 votes)

42= Play Time
Jacques Tati, 1967 (31 votes)

42= Close-Up
Abbas Kiarostami, 1990 (31 votes)

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

would pay to see all-day marathon of the films tied at 42nd.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd skip Pather Panchali, but yeah.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Histoire(s) surprising

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

where?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok, see it. have reserved at library.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I missed Godfather II...81 votes combined, so it would have stayed in the Top 10, but by the looks of it closer to the bottom.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

A little sad to see Barry Lyndon slip after a strong '02 showing.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost lol keep dreaming

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm not looking to argue that yet again, Eric--it was just a numerical observation.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Gertrud -- feh

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

over Day of Wrath?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I tell you what wild conjecture I would be willing to entertain, tho: the possibility that some voters switched FFC allegiance over to Apocalypse Now rather than try to guess which Godfather movie they should throw their support behind. (I'm sure there are a couple ballots in there with both Godfathers, tho.)

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Day of Wrath is way fustier than Gertrud.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes but people are burned alive

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Our difference of opinion here, tho, is the difference in our sex lives described in a nutshell.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

as opposed to bored to death

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

One person is burned alive, iirc. And then the rest of the film involves hotsy-totsy working on a loom and making sexy cat eyes at the prude man.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Biggest fall = Touch of Evil? It was 15th last time.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Every time I think some big names are completely missing from the Top 50, I look closer and catch them--who's the most prominent director not there? (Didn't Rio Bravo do pretty well in this at one point?)

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hawks.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

And then the rest of the film involves hotsy-totsy working on a loom and making sexy cat eyes at the prude man

I think you're confusing the film with the gay thread

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

(Oh, I see you already figured that one sorta.)

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

LOL, the gay thread is the MOST Gertrud.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Chaplin only just BARELY made the top 50.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Late Spring and Au hasard Balthazar helped by Criterion releases.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

the possibility that some voters switched FFC allegiance over to Apocalypse Now rather than try to guess which Godfather movie they should throw their support behind

film critics now suck as much as US politics.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

when you've made as many GREAT films in DIFFERENT genres as Hawks has, critics are at a loss.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Isn't that a big jump for Psycho? I don't remember it ever getting especially strong support.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think that was roughly where it landed in '02.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

when you've made as many GREAT INDISTINGUISHABLE films in DIFFERENT genres NOT HORROR as Hawks has, critics are at a loss.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

eric, i'm on the verge of offering you a lifetime stipend never to mention hawks or screwball again

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric, what is your #1 western? Serious question! You know what my favorite horrors are.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Searchers -- this one must go away

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Altman's not in the Top 50. Disappointed that Nashville couldn't generate 29 votes.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

David Edelstein has never been invited to participate? How weird.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/08/david-edelstein-on-the-sight-sound-poll.html

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's bizarre. Naturally, I like his list a lot.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

McCabe & Mrs. Miller probably.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and a lot of Ford's stuff from the '40s.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, I don't think The Searchers is the best western any more than Singin' in the Rain is the best musical.

Would replace respectively with The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and Meet Me in St Louis.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ambersons is all the way down at #81, as per introduction on the top 50 page. Not sure if that's above or below Touch of Evil, but maybe Kane backlash also turned into an overall Welles backlash?

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

My Darling Clementine & Xanadu

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

those are both pretty good showings for mangled movies.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm guessing that Touch of Evil greatly benefited in 2002 from the 1998 restored edition.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Can you explain what you actually find all that interesting about Lady from Shanghai?

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

mirrors iirc

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hilarious brogues. More movies should have them.

Marco YOLO (Phil D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Seconding mirrors.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Can't wait for him to watch more Argento, then.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

I find tLfS hilariously baroque, his most fun showoffy movie, even more than Kane. also "a bright guilty world"

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

and Gus Schilling

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, maybe I'll watch it again in the spirit of rejoicing over irresponsibility.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

But even on those terms, I doubt it wins over the others I listed above.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh, I'd put it third at best among OW's, maybe 5th.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Chimes at Midnight remains my "if you don't like this, you don't like Welles" pick.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

No Bunuel or Huston in top 50 kinda surprises me (tho I can imagine vote-splitting on both of them).

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Damnit, didn't notice that. Bunuel and his dozen masterpieces will never catch a break in S&S.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

No Third Man, which made a number of lists on this thread. I might be wrong, but I thought it used to be one of those perennial Top 25 finishers. Happy to see The 400 Blows still hanging around.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bunuel perceived as too contemptuous of humanity (poss similar to Altman).

what's the highest Jerry Lewis?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Third Man all the way down in the 80s, sounds like. (Also apparently the highest-ranking British movie?)

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bunuel perceived as too contemptuous of humanity (poss similar to Altman).

Crix prefer ignorant of (i.e. Kubrick, Coppola)?

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

No Polanski, which is probably not all that surprising...guessing maybe 20 votes for Chinatown?

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

well 2001 is arguably Kubrick's most optimistic film. o i c what you did there

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kubrick and Coppola at their best have a good handle on humanity at its worst

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm guessing that Chinatown doesn't resonate as much outside of America?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

OK, for the top 50:

IN
14. Apocalypse Now
15. Late Spring
17. Persona
24. In the Mood for Love
28. Mulholland Dr.
29. Stalker
35. Jeanne Dielman...
35. Satantango
41. Journey to Italy
42. Gertrud
42. Play Time
42. Close Up
48. The Battle of Algiers
48. Histoire(s) du Cinema
50. La Jetee

OUT

15. Touch of Evil
19. Jules et Jim
24. M
24. The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums
27. Barry Lyndon
27. Les Enfants du Paradis
27. Ivan the Terrible
27. Wild Strawberries
35. Fanny and Alexander
35. Le Grande Illusion
35. The Magnificent Ambersons
35. Modern Times
35. The Seventh Seal
35. The Third Man
45. Blade Runner
45. Greed
45. Intolerance
45. Lawrence of Arabia
45. Letter from an Unknown Woman
45. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
45. Rio Bravo
45. Sansho Dayu
45. The Travelling Players
45. Two or Three Things I Know About Her

Discrepancy in number in/out because, due to ties, the 2002 list is really a top 60 and the 2012 list is really a top 52. Also there's an extra Godfather in the 2012 list.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Interesting that Persona came back so strongly when three other Bergmans dropped off.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'd be delighted to see 'chimes' in the top 5 even but it'll never happen, thanks to whatever welles estate nonsense has kept it from ever being released in the states.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm always kind of surprised that british films get completely shafted in this list, apart from 'third man.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost to self
No complaints here, since I prefer it to Strawberries and Seventh Seal anyway. (Haven't seen Fanny & Alexander.)

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

24. M
27. Barry Lyndon
27. Ivan the Terrible

You monsters!

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Those filmmakers continue to hang onto Bicycle Thieves like a hungry child clinging to a cheesy piece of pizza.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

nobody has use for griffith anymore, huh

Hungry4Ass, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Add Fassbinder to the list of directors not represented in the top 50.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I almost mentioned Griffith's absence much earlier--Intolerance was Top 10 on the first list--but I figured his fall from favor was easier to figure out than that of others (and probably happened two or three lists ago).

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm surprised Berlin Alexanderplatz wouldn't break through--can't blame length, with Shoah on there. Vote-splitting, I guess.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

i guess some critics consider it to be TV

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Was Godard's Histoire TV (or at last parts of it)?

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

On that note, how DID Shoah land so high?

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

All the Kael haters made a pact. (Just kidding--the video store I go to has it for a cheap weekly rental, so I've made a vow to watch it before I go back to work.)

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if Sarris was able to submit a ballot--I think he'd been in poor health for a while.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

i wonder how many ppl watch griffith films just for pleasure these days -- i admire his films but they're not something i want to revisit that often, whereas chaplin and keaton and eisenstein and murnau all seem endlessly fresh.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, given current conditions and the weight of history, the top 30 placings of In the Mood for Love and Mulholland Dr. are basically the 2012 equivalent of L'aaventura placing #2 in 1962 imo.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

What happened to the big Malick surge, specifically Tree of Life?

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there a malick in the 50 at all? expected to see tree of life in there. Jeanne Dielman in the top 40 is a very pleasant surprise.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

John McCain was a big supporter of the Malick surge; General Petraeus, too.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

man am i glad no malick ranked.

Hungry4Ass, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

So the most recent movie in the top 10 is 2001: A Space Odyssey, which seems a bit ridiculous to me but whatever. I'd like to know whether it's because overall people voted more for older movies or whether there's just consensus over which are the best pre-1960 movies, but much less for afterwards. I guess it's probably a combination of both.

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

MALICK EATS @ CHIK-FIL-A!

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hoping a few more post-Y2K movies show up in slots 51-100, but pretty sure Tree of Life will not be one of them.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Perhaps it is the stunning success of the recent Oscar-winning The Artist that has triggered a new interest in silent movies

(From the link above) I'm all for mediocre art as a gateway to better art, but I really doubt this.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

surely the Malick that would place would be either Badlands or Days of Heaven, not Tree of Life

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ebert put Tree of Life on his ballot, iirc.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not crazy to imagine that others looking to slip a super-recent film in the mix would've gone in that direction, too.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

i wonder how many ppl watch griffith films just for pleasure these days -- i admire his films but they're not something i want to revisit that often, whereas chaplin and keaton and eisenstein and murnau all seem endlessly fresh

Broken Blossoms is the only one I can rewatch tbh

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

On our last day my undergraduate film teacher, a boob in most respects, said she had a "surprise": she would show her print of Way Down East. The class looked catatonic.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Pleasure might be the thing going most in Griffith's favor, if all his other innovations have been refined/usurped.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

What about Joe Weerasethakul? Wasn't he a reasonable guess for the Top 50?

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

In the little, petty victories column:

Keaton over Chaplin
Apocalypse Now over the Godfathers
Taxi Driver well over Raging Bull
Mulholland Dr. well over Blue Velvet

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Joe may be a new Bunuel. You love one, you sort of love them all.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Keaton over Chaplin -- eh, narcissism of small differences
Apocalypse Now over the Godfathers -- concur with this
Taxi Driver well over Raging Bull -- ditto
Mulholland Dr. well over Blue Velvet -- basically detest both of them but BV is better

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

What's your pick for least essential? Mine: The Searches or 2001

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'll add a petty victory nobody cares about: The 400 Blows over Jules and Jim (I think the latter came reasonably close to the top 10 once).

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

my pick would be '8 1/2' -- i like fellini, but have never gotten the love for that one.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

'the searchers' definitely has more all-out embarrassing stuff in it than anything else i've seen on the list: you could take out about 20 minutes of it without sacrificing anything decent. still riveting whenever wayne's on the screen.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

least essential = obv vertigo

i was mildly surprised that 8 1/2 was so high on the critics list too - i always thought of it as a directors movie

Hungry4Ass, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

As I said way upthread, 8-1/2 mystifies me. Not that La Dolce Vita is a favourite or anything, but I much preferred that the one time I saw it.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

searchers is pretty good but i dont like its status as The One True Ford. i havent seen Man With A Movie Camera but it sounds like something that can go to hell

Hungry4Ass, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok, might as well toss Amarcord and The King of Comedy in here

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

the people I know who curate silent film showings in NYC were very happy about The Artist putting more fannies in their seats.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ford has at least 12 movies better than The Searches, thankfully. My Darling Clementine or She Wore a Yellow Ribbon should be the equals of The Searchers

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

My least favorite of the top 10 is no contest: 8 1/2.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Griffith's epic/thriller modes really need as big a screen as possible.

(Keaton too really)

The Searchers benefits from Schrader acknowledging Taxi Driver's debt to it.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

'man with a movie camera' is wonderful. love the idea that something like that actually made the top 10.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

That I don't doubt, and that's a great thing (even though I couldn't stand the film). But do you think it actually affected voters? Surely anyone who voted in this didn't rush out to rent Dziga Vertov or Murnau videos after seeing The Artist (or, even in the improbable event that they did, decide in the space of a few months that they'd suddenly found one of their favourite films ever). (xxxxpost)

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think crix find it easier to embrace a western that's more face front about its racism than ones that are comparatively surreptitious.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Criterion did more for Ozu than Schrader did.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

It bears repeating, Late Spring seriously came outta nowhere to be #15.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kinda think The Artist affected this poll not a whit; I meant general interest in silents.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Griffith's epic/thriller modes really need as big a screen as possible.

Hmm, never thought about this before but seems obviously true.

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

hell, as anti-racist westerns go I prefer Ulzana's Raid

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

yep

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

or anything with Robert Ryan

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well aren't you two just precious.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do we get dragged off screaming to the snake pit?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

The difference in vote totals from the 2002 list is striking. Kane got 46 votes last time--that'd be outside the Top 10 this year. Singin' in the Rain finished 10th in '02 with 17 votes, slightly more than half of what La Jetée got at #50 this time.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Seeing as the Olympics are in London, I assume they'll be taking time out at some point to acknowledge Vertigo's big win?

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

clemenza, i think there were something like 3-4 times as many polls submitted this time round.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

2002 was less than 200 ballots iirc. This one had 850. I'm surprised any (relative) idiosyncrasies showed up at all this time.

Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok we have an F for Fake sighting on Sl4nt

along w/ JLG's King Lear at #1

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

I could tell...basically the point I was trying to underscore. I assume that impacted the results, unless you would expect a much larger field of voters to vote proportionally the same as last time. (Which is opposite to what Eric's saying. Good question: does a much larger field make idiosyncratic results inevitable or impossible?)

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hey, did Heaven's Gate get any votes? I know Robin Wood would have voted for it.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 21:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

James Wolcott's 2022 ballot:

1. MARGARET 2. VERTIGO 3. THE SEARCHERS 4. TINY FURNITURE. 5. CITIZEN KANE 5. IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE..9. ISHTAR

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

nice.

Hungry4Ass, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

is Chantal Akerman at 35= the only woman in the 50? is she the first woman ever in the 50?

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

it is possible that last time i was reading these poll results i thought carol reed & lindsay anderson women, but i can imagine she's the first (& is the only woman in this top fifty, yep). i hope the top 100 lets a lil more '90s/21st century light in. directors' top 10 is more interesting to me than the critics, i think:

1. Tokyo Story (Ozu, 1953)

=2 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick, 1968)

=2 Citizen Kane (Welles, 1941)

4. 8 ½ (Fellini, 1963)

5. Taxi Driver (Scorsese, 1976)

6. Apocalypse Now (Coppola, 1979)

=7 The Godfather (Coppola, 1972)

=7 Vertigo (Hitchcock, 1958)

9. Mirror (Tarkovsky, 1974)

10. Bicycle Thieves (De Sica, 1948)

, Blogger (schlump), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

i pledge allegiance to the body that works to keep bicycle thieves in the top 10 out of affection & principle - i guess maybe sunrise is the thing that takes its place as something clear as a bell, simple made perfect

, Blogger (schlump), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Surprising number of silent films in the top 10?

I know complaining about what isn't there gets old fast but I'll do it anyway. Apart from Akerman, Godard or Battle for Algiers there is nothing too confrontational is there? No Pasolini (lol at Fellini), Resnais, Fassbinder, Oshima, Ferreri, Ghatak, Sembene, Makavejev.

Don't really like the sensibility at display here. But I like that a film from the late 50 is at no.1.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

The usual not enough films from women/Africa/Asia and all. Maybe its because I've watched most of these.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Surprising number of silent films in the top 10?
ian christie i think the first to posit the relevance of the artist in this - can't begin to untangle the feedback loop of critical impulses that might corroborate this, ie persnickety critics who've had real silents on the tip of their tongues for months.

struggling to take this in in list form; am really looking forward to the illustrated list. like someone just mentioned that le mepris made it, which i hadn't picked up - this is crazy to me (& feels, tenuously, like a further affront to the absence of Lang's M), & something i'd just breezed past. that histoires du cinema made it is more interesting, but this is maybe just a fact of godard's complex position i guess. it would be hard to imagine anything super surprising in the rest of the list just because of the numbers it would require. crossing fingers for iran i think.

yr point about confrontational is true but i almost feel like that says something about canons being inherently anti-confrontational, & the sample size cancelling out marginal works. like mirror & histoires maybe occupy some similar cinematic ground. can imagine sembene in the full #100, though.

, Blogger (schlump), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I wanted to speculate on the effect The Artist might have had but I didn't have the heart.

Get your point re: canons but I feel like this is taking out some very great filmmaking in favour of thrash like The Godafather.

re: Mepris I think there is far too much Godard and Tarkovsky, as much as I like those two.

Sembene is top 20 material, not 100. Him and Ghatak not making it is a real shame.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

8 1/2 is actually my favorite of the top ten (tho I like them all). It may say something that I don't really care for any other Fellini though.

ryan, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 22:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

is Chantal Akerman at 35= the only woman in the 50? is she the first woman ever in the 50?

Definitely the only woman in the 2012 list. Not sure about first woman ever, since I'm not sure S&S published a top 50 before recently.

The guy who runs the They Shoot Pictures Don't They? site has all of the data, though, and from poking through some of it, I was able to find a handful of woman-directed films that have scored at least one vote prior to 2012:

Triumph of the Will (Riefenstahl): 1 (1952)
Meshes of the Afternoon (Deren): 2 (1992), 1 (2002)
Orlando (Potter): 1 (1992), 2 (2002)
Daisies (Chytilova): 1 (1992, 2002)
Cleo from 5 to 7 (Varda): 1 (2002)
The Piano (Campion): 2 (2002)

I can't imagine what else could've gotten enough votes to crack the top 50.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Fwiw, Jeanne Dielman got 1 vote in 1992 and 2 votes in 2002 before getting 34 this year.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think it was almost impossible to see before the restoration and DVD release a few years ago.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Satantango at 35= with Jeanne Dielman is probably the other film which the DVD release has so drastically influenced the standings of.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

i feel like there's no way stango's on the 2022 list too, but who knows

Hungry4Ass, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

the global apocalypse in 5 years time could affect its standing.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Actually, I'm not sure those some of those vote totals I listed are 100% correct, but suffice to say, none of those films racked up a lot of votes.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

irritated about the films in the top 50 I can't rent on netflix grumble grumble

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I posted some thoughts on the results on my page. I will be one of a zillion people to do so in the next few days.

http://phildellio.tripod.com/

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

This is where I have no sense of how big a story the list is. I was saying upthread that it may not be as big a story as it used to be. There's enough out there already that I guess I'm wrong. But I've been periodically checking CNN today, hoping to see some small mention, and nothing so far that I can see. So I don't know where big ends and really big starts.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

The website, I mean, not on TV.

clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

it was a decent sized story on your actual real BBC1 news. that's pretty big for a poll.

jed_, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 23:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

speaking of Sembene, I wonder how many African films got votes?

I admit I have no idea who Ghatak is.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

I know at least a couple people voted for Outer Space. Which is incredibly awesome.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 14:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

My pretend ballot, for 2022 I guess.

La Règle du jeu
The General
The Empire Strikes Back
Seven Samurai
It Happened One Night
Groundhog Day
McCabe and Mrs. Miller
The Princess Bride
My Dinner With Andre
The Gold Rush

jim, Thursday, 2 August 2012 14:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I was thinking about Gance's Napoleon film last night (which I've never seen)...seems to me that it may have done fairly well in the '82 or '92 poll, whichever one came after the Coppola re-release. Has it completely disappeared from voter's lists?

clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 14:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

speaking of Sembene, I wonder how many African films got votes?

i feel like he always does pretty well w/S&S/critics lists &c; i guess he might be hindered by choice, since xala, black girl & moolaade each are p frequently cited as his masterpiece

I admit I have no idea who Ghatak is.

― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:01 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i only know him from xyz's killer film recaps; he made a film about a car that's <2hrs & i thought might be a good place to start, i can't remember what it's called

, Blogger (schlump), Thursday, 2 August 2012 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not to get all A.J. Weberman, but here's Sarris's handwritten list from the '62 poll:

http://www.awardsdaily.com/blog/2012/08/01/sight-sound-poll-2012-top-10-films-of-all-time/

clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

One that I'm surprised to see so high is Le Mépris - I like earlier Godard, but I found it rather sterile and joyless.

jim, Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not 100 percent on why that one gets so much love, either. I'd opt for Weekend, tho, over Breathless.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anne Carson does have some interesting remarks about it.

jim, Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

One that I'm surprised to see so high is Le Mépris - I like earlier Godard, but I found it rather sterile and joyless.

my complaint about Godard generally, with exceptions

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I obv get some of the most joy when he's at his angriest, with exceptions.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

are his films – even the ones from the seventies – ever angry?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

The guy has made a fetish out of the contemplative gaze.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Weekend is a very angry film.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes. xxp

Notre Musique (what, 2001?) was angry.

Probably my favorites are still Masculin-Feminin, JLG/JLG, 2 or 3 Things...

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't see it. He's having a ball while the world self-destructs.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

or, rather, watching the destruction through sunglasses

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's just it. There can be joy in anger.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

You just don't destroy the world without hating it.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

too bad Gore Vidal never worked for him

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

The only part of Mepris I really liked was the big famous sequence in the apartment. All the stuff with Jack Palance felt flat to me.

There's still plenty of Godard I haven't seen, but if there's anything more fun than Bande a Part I'd like to know.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

we better stop turning this thread into a Smashing Pumpkins lyrics depository

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

we are destroying the world, he's doing play-by-play.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

tipsy, have you seen Uncle Jean-Luc eating reels of celluloid? is that King Lear?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: la mepris

feel like it earns some love as a sorta landmark film - just a timely example of colour and the free association of godard towards other media - lang, bardot - at that time. the godard picks are def interesting - like it's great that histoires is in there - & some degree of "i'd sub la petit soldat for _____" is inevitable, but mepris feels like a different category of outsider, yeah.

on looking a lil more closely at the list, la regle du jou is the one that most surprises me, being so high -- i thought if some kind of contemporary mood was going to dictate the additions and disappearances to the list, the rise of sunrise, &c, the synaesthesia of vertigo over the klout of cain, it would've drawn away from renoir's film. but maybe not. i haven't seen it in a while.

, Blogger (schlump), Thursday, 2 August 2012 19:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like most Godard films but they all run together for me except Contempt/Mepris--it's his only film that strikes me as melancholy.

ryan, Thursday, 2 August 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Godard directing a Vidal script sounds like one of the great missed opportunities.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 19:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like most Godard films but they all run together for me except Contempt/Mepris--it's his only film that strikes me as melancholy.

― ryan, Thursday, 2 August 2012 20:31 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha, otm. whenever anyone posits an alternative to breathless appearing in the list, of the other early '60s films, i just have to piece together a madlib of oh right with karina & the walter benjamin quote & godard killing the heroine in the last minute.

, Blogger (schlump), Thursday, 2 August 2012 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I always feel like critics/directors are going to gravitate towards films that are about filmmaking, and while arguably every JLG film is about that in one way or another, Le Mepris is very explicitly so. All cinemascope and vivid colours, plus as mentioned Lang etc. Also that argument scene with Bardot in the Karina wig. And it was pre-"political" JLG, and therefore less divisive I guess.

I've always found him to be angry in one way or another. Tout Va Bien still plays like a polemic to me.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Thursday, 2 August 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

So the top-rated comedies are The General at #34, Some Like It Hot, Playtime (tied at 42) and City Lights (50). Where are all the ILE poll faves?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

In ILE pollsters' DVD players, being watched, perpetually.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I always feel like critics/directors are going to gravitate towards films that are about filmmaking,

which might explain why I dislike those movies except Irma Vep.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

White Hunter, Black Heart

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 21:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Liked that one OK. Have absolutely no desire to ever see it again.

Eric H., Thursday, 2 August 2012 21:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eastwood's accent rivaled Christian Bale's Batvoice.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 22:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Godard is angry but I think he is aware of the futility of carrying these gestures through in a film, and to just let film be that and nothing else. He loves the movies too much.

re: Ghatak. Ajantrik is the car film. I found it quite a revelation, admire him even more after I watched it recently.

Surprised people around these parts don't know him. A River Called Titas is a personal favourite. Cloud-Capped Star would probably be the film by him that would make a list. I expect to see that in the top 100.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 2 August 2012 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

53= Rear Window
North by Northwest
Raging Bull

56= M
Touch of Evil
The Leopard

59 = Sherlock Jr
Sansho Dayu
La Maman et la Putain
Barry Lyndon

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

63 = Modern Times
Sunset Blvd
The Night of the Hunter
Wild Strawberries
Rio Bravo
Pickpocket

69 = A Man Escaped
Blade Runner
Sans Soleil
Blue Velvet

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

73 = La Grande Illusion
Les Enfants du Paradis
The Third Man
L'eclisse
Nashville

78 = Once Upon a Time in the West
Chinatown
Beau Travail

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

81 = The Magnificent Ambersons
Lawrence of Arabia
The Spirit of the Beehive

84 = Greed
Casablanca
The Colour of Pomegranates
The Wild Bunch
Fanny and Alexander
A Brighter Summer Day

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

90 = Partie de Campagne
A Matter of Life and Death
Aguirre, Wrath of God

93 = Intolerance
Un Chien Andalou
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
Madame de...
The Seventh Seal
Imitation of Life
Touki-Bouki
A One and a Two

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

no rivette :-(

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

53= Rear Window
North by Northwest
Raging Bull

1 that was on my own fake list and 2 that I'm waaay relieved didn't make the top 50.

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 13:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thanks for posting the rest, WF. Glad to see Nashville's on the map.

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Michael Mann
"Apocalypse Now" (1979, dir. Francis Ford Coppola)
"Battleship Potemkin" (1925, dir. Sergei Eisenstein)
"Citizen Kane" (1941, dir. Orson Welles)
"Avatar" (2009, dir. James Cameron)
"Dr. Strangelove" (1964, dir. Stanley Kubrick)
"Biutiful" (2010, dir. Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu)
"My Darling Clementine" (1946, dir. John Ford)
"The Passion Of Joan Of Arc" (1928, dir. Carl Theodor Dreyer)
"Raging Bull" (1980, dir. Martin Scorsese)
"The Wild Bunch" (1969, dir. Sam Peckinpah)

Um.

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 13:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

michael mann listing avatar is some srs trolling xp

johnny crunch, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Would not be at all surprised if The Shining is top 25 on the director's overall list.

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 13:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

La Maman et la Putain

^no, this making the top 5,0000 is some srs trolling

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

how many 1990-or-later is that, in total? 4 or 5?

And aside from Close-Up, I'm seeing no Iran. Ludicrous.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

the eustache is def in my top ten, no trolling

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Some director picks I find interesting for one reason or another:

Bong Joon-Ho: Zodiac
Coppola: The Apartment
Sean Durkin: The Panic in Needle Park
Miranda July: Punch Drunk Love
Jeff Nichols: Hud and The Hustler
Tarantino: The Bad New Bears
Bela Tarr: Berlin Alexanderplatz
Apichatpong Weerasethakul: The Conversation and Empire

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Alfred, I don't recall Clint using an accent in WHBH!

53= Rear Window
North by Northwest
Raging Bull

1 that was on my own fake list and 2 that I'm waaay relieved didn't make the top 50.

The small victories just keep gettin' smaller, huh?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tarantino: The Bad New Bears

The greatest baseball movie ever made! Seriously.

Bong Joon-Ho: Zodiac

Does he post here?

Marco YOLO (Phil D.), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

v possibly the greatest baseball movie ever made, cuz the only other good one is Sugar

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

a hit from the bong

Ward Fowler, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Miranda July: Punch Drunk Love

now we know who to blame

Number None, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

drunk punch Miranda July.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric's ballsy list is up at sl4nt and I am just glad The Shining missed.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I quickly scanned for titles that ran egregiously opposite to the director's style or temperament--was hoping to to see something heavily edited on Bela Tarr's list, or maybe a Pauly Shore film--but nothing jumped out at me.

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Because someone has to. Armond says Vertigo winning is another example of everybody but him being stupid.

http://cityarts.info/2012/08/03/g-o-a-t-topples/

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 13:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

the numinous The Birds?
the numinous The Birds?
the numinous The Birds?
the numinous The Birds?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 August 2012 13:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

For years, it’s been quietly accepted that Welles’ follow-up film The Magnificent Ambersons was richer, more complex than Kane

No, actually, it's been vehemently disagreed with, but whatev.

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 14:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

and he blasts S&S for "class-based" concerns! The marvel of Armond is he'd blast those guys if they picked CK and cited "class-based" reasons.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 August 2012 14:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's on Armond's quiet scale

xp

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 14:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Nick James says The Tree of Life came in at #101 in this interview:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/02/showbiz/uk-hitchcock-greatest-film-poll/index.html

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 14:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Some of you are going to have a hard time with the CNN interviewer in that clip...but she does say In the Mood for Love would be in her own Top 10.

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 14:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

how many 1990-or-later is that, in total? 4 or 5?

24. In the Mood for Love
28. Mulholland Dr.
35. Satantango
42. Close Up
48. Histoire(s) du Cinema
78. Beau Travail
84. A Brighter Summer Day
93. A One and a Two

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Friday, 3 August 2012 14:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eight from the last 20 years is pretty impressive given the contradictory presuppositions that, a) movies have allegedly "never been worse," and b) there's so much more for many critics to choose from.

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 14:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

NB: Sean Durkin listed The Goonies. Jeff Nichols listed Fletch.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Friday, 3 August 2012 14:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Gore Vidal would have mentioned Airplane!.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 August 2012 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Btw, have they always extended ballots to novice directors like Durkin, Nichols, and Richard Ayoade?

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Friday, 3 August 2012 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

I had to look up both Durkin and Nichols to find out who they were.

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 14:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

they tripled the amount of directors and quadrupled the amount of critics taking part, but it does seem odd to let first-timers like Durkin and Ayoade have a go

Number None, Friday, 3 August 2012 15:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

So much for the Indiewire link: "Lists removed at the behest of Sight & Sound."

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Nick James says The Tree of Life came in at #101 in this interview:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/02/showbiz/uk-hitchcock-greatest-film-poll/index.html

― Eric H., Friday, August 3, 2012 10:10 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

talk about dodging a bullet

WheatusVEVO (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 3 August 2012 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

coppola putting two marties on his list surprises me for some reason

avatar clearly a more defensible pick than movie camera man or whatever, the innaritu is just uncalled for though

WheatusVEVO (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 3 August 2012 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

So much for the Indiewire link: "Lists removed at the behest of Sight & Sound."

I found it repasted here:
http://screencrush.com/directors-top-10/

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Friday, 3 August 2012 16:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

La Maman et la Putain

^no, this making the top 5,0000 is some srs trolling

― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

La Maman et La Putain >>>>> anything by Rohmer and Truffaut, thought this was accepted, no kidding.

These are all good picks - glad to see Touki Bouki and Yi Yi

The Leopard
La Maman et la Putain
The Third Man
L'eclisse
Once Upon a Time in the West
Beau Travail
The Colour of Pomegranates
Partie de Campagne
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
Touki-Bouki
A One and a Two

xyzzzz__, Friday, 3 August 2012 17:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

So ... POX from the top 100:

Jeanne Dielman
Satantango
Gertrud
La Jetee
Rear Window
Barry Lyndon
The Night of the Hunter
L'eclisse
Nashville
Imitation of Life

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mann's Avatar ranking is probably just technerd enthusiasm, but I'm hoping it's also a small part of a campaign to finagle a cheap loan of JC's new setup.

RCMP, Friday, 3 August 2012 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

See, canon formation DOES affect the future of the medium.

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure I missed the poll where I would have made the case for The Bad News Bears as one of the great movies, but... it is.

Pete Scholtes, Friday, 3 August 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

See, canon formation can also distort the past.

Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

When I finally watched it a couple of years ago, I was amazed at how unflinching and smart it was about the way adults will embarrass themselves when it comes to kids' sports. I experienced some of that myself when I was younger, in little league and again in high school. Tarantino doesn't strike me as someone who looks at the film through an autobiographical lens, but maybe I'm completely wrong.

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I suspect Tarantino likes it because the kids cuss and use racial slurs a lot.

Marco YOLO (Phil D.), Friday, 3 August 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

thats the same reason he loves His Girl Friday iirc

WheatusVEVO (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 3 August 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

He probably really loved the one scene where all the kids sat around the dugout and analyzed "Afternoon Delight."

clemenza, Friday, 3 August 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

xyzzzz, u r a delinquent.

Richard Ayoade? isn't he in The Watch? What did he direct?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Submarine

Number None, Friday, 3 August 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok skipped that one

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2012 21:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/movies/2012/08/sight_sound_s_greatest_films_of_all_time_list_mocked_and_defiled_.html

The mocking and defiling here is not very convincing--not very clear, either, on a single quick reading.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 August 2012 00:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Much better, I think:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-radical-vision-of-sight-sounds-stodgy-bestfilm,83352/

"On the other hand, (Kane) is now liberated from the best-film-ever label, which burdened it with a heavy significance that no film should ever have to carry, much less one as spectacularly entertaining as Kane." Yes--pass all that on to Vertigo, where it seems more at home.

clemenza, Saturday, 4 August 2012 00:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

As somebody pointed out above, Coppola's got two Scorsese films on his list this time (in 1992, he had one). Scorsese, meanwhile, took Godfather II off his 1992 list, going from one Coppola film to none. (They must not have voted in 2002--their lists were not in the print issue.) Someone may not be getting along very well with someone in the near future. Also notice that Scorsese lists 12 films on his ballot this year rather than 10.

clemenza, Sunday, 5 August 2012 01:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

really, Coppola's oeuvre has no biz near a 10-greatest list.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 5 August 2012 03:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

And yet, there it is. Conspiracy or mass hypnosis, probably.

clemenza, Sunday, 5 August 2012 04:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

There's something in the wine...

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 5 August 2012 05:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

99.

The Clock
Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Late Spring
Singin' in the Rain
Playtime
Ménilmontant
Broken Blossoms
Zorn's Lemma
Masculine Feminine

Michael Daddino, Sunday, 5 August 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wolcott:

Strip Vertigo of its haunting, Wagnerian eternal-return score by Bernard Herrmann and you've got a muddled Orphic saga that looks like a not-great Steve Ditko comic with a performance by Kim Novak that exerts all the erotic mystery and allure of a burlap bag.

You may disagree and that's your right, as an America

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 August 2012 16:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wish he had actually said "as an America"

White sure does love De Palma.

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Monday, 6 August 2012 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

does he though? i find it hard to believe anything he says, whether he's praising something or damning it.

jed_, Monday, 6 August 2012 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm with them on their criticisms of Vertigo, but I definitely wouldn't elevate The Birds over it; the things I don't particularly like about Vertigo are much more bothersome by the time of The Birds.

clemenza, Monday, 6 August 2012 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

at least Godfather II & III don't have Brando

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 August 2012 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yes, III has it all over I in not having Brando.

clemenza, Monday, 6 August 2012 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

no, you're as bad at interpreting simple sentences as figuring out Wins Above Replacement.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 August 2012 17:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

We had this argument seven years ago...we're gonna let that one pass.

clemenza, Monday, 6 August 2012 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure, but I think Network is now the most-mentioned movie among the Sl4nt ballots.

Eric H., Monday, 6 August 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've been following your lists--The Good Shepherd is one of the more idiosyncratic picks I've seen on one of these. (I thought it was okay...and long, from what I remember.)

clemenza, Monday, 6 August 2012 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm slightly outta the loop w/this thread but fwiw i would totally endorse picking up a copy of this ish if you see one - i am a sucker for lists, & individual ballots (many are fascinating, particularly those of the women polled - mia hansen-love's, miranda july's, joanna hogg's i think), but the magazine's terrific, too.

, Blogger (schlump), Monday, 6 August 2012 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

looking forward to getting the mag. list frenzy!

jed_, Monday, 6 August 2012 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

We had this argument seven years ago...we're gonna let that one pass.

― clemenza, Monday, August 6, 2012 12:23 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^New board description?

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 6 August 2012 22:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

no itch?

One Sl4nter got called a hipster for picking Showgirls. I lol'd.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 01:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

eric's list is real interesting but i can't bring myself to watch anything called 'electrocuting an elephant.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 01:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's definitely 'as advertised'

WheatusVEVO (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 02:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric's defence of the film makes intellectual sense, but I'll never, ever watch it.

to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 03:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

wheres his list

WheatusVEVO (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 03:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

So ... POX from the top 100:

Jeanne Dielman
Satantango
Gertrud
La Jetee
Rear Window
Barry Lyndon
The Night of the Hunter
L'eclisse
Nashville
Imitation of Life

― Eric H., Friday, 3 August 2012 18:12 (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think

, Blogger (schlump), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 10:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

just took from the library Sokurov's Spiritual Voices; Histoire(s) du Cinema; Showgirls.

12+ hours

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thalllberg....Thallllberg....

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bogdanovich OTM

All these films and so many more should be seen by every civilized person on earth, and the whole rating idea is anti-artistic, anti-film culture, just absurdly reductive: There are so many wonderful pictures to see, that to reduce them down to a Top Ten is a disservice to all the great work that has been done with that haunting 20th century medium of humanity, born just at the end of the 19th century: a now nearly mythical visual history of more than an entire 100 years of life in the world. The first century is history. We currently have a lot to live up to; a lot more than ten.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/peterbogdanovich/the-sight-and-sound-poll

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 15:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Sight and Sound poll gets people to seek out these films and see them--you can argue that people should want to see them anyway, without the extra push of a poll, but if the poll helps to accomplish that, what is the problem?

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 15:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

there isn't one. also it's possibly to be perfectly civilised - cultured even - without ever seeing a single one of these films or wanting to.

jed_, Friday, 10 August 2012 15:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

"should be"

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

clemenza, do you have a polling numbers on that claim?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 15:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

The problem is in the process. These are allegedly the choices of film scholars/lovers, and yet nearly all of them admit some artificial, arbitrary constraints they use to whittle their canons down a list of ten. So how does this produce a result that means something?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 15:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do I have any actual evidence that the S&S poll encourages people to seek out these films? Of course not--no more than the many assertions you make on a daily basis here. (Oh, I get it--political junkie joke.) I will say this: years ago, based on a pretty good awareness of what I like and don't like, I decided that Jacques Tati wasn't really for me. But Playtime is screening here later in the month, and, because of the poll, I'm going to see it and try my best to be open-minded. It'll be my first Tati film.

As far as artificial and arbitrary constraints, I think it's a bad idea to start going down that road. I would prefer that everyone simply vote for their ten favourite films, and whatever the results are, that's what they are.

Truthfully, I doubt Bogdanovich would be saying anything if his own films did better in the poll.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

you don't need numbers, it's pretty obvious that more people will see these films as a direct result of this poll. the numbers might be in the tens or the tens of thousands. does it really matter which?

jed_, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Truthfully, I don't think Bogdanovich would consider any of his films to be among the 10 greatest. His ego doesn't outweigh his brains there.

I have no idea what my ten favorite films are.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Morbs, those "constraints" they claim are merely a way for critics to absolve themselves of the fact (borne out of the results) that films are demonstrably the most "dead white male" of all artistic mediums.

Eric H., Friday, 10 August 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also a way for belatedly rational people to talk themselves out of listing more than one screwball comedy in their top 10.

Eric H., Friday, 10 August 2012 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bogdanovich's ego vs. Bogdanovich's brain--actually, Bogdanovich's ego vs. anything might be a rather lopsided contest. He probably doesn't consider any of his films to be among the 10 greatest, I agree but I bet he'd be a lot more tolerant of the poll if a few other people did. (Maybe The Last Picture Show did reel in a handful of votes, I don't know.)

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

that frosty look he gave you really hurt, huh?

If you take him at his word that he declined to vote -- and thus didn't know the results -- why wouldn't he have expected to react to it in one of his Indiewire pieces?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's cute that Bogdanovich thinks everyone should have 1,300 favorite films.

Eric H., Friday, 10 August 2012 16:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Based on previous polls, I would think he'd have a pretty good idea by now that he doesn't fare well. But that's fine, maybe I'm stretching the point--maybe his qualms are 100% independent of his work. In any event, I think he's fretting and worrying over something needlessly; the poll is far and away a net plus when it comes to broadening awareness of film history.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not to mention that it's fun to argue about the poll--see the three ILX threads, see the countless responses to the poll all over the internet, etc.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

i knew a guy once who worked himself dutifully through AFI's top 100, a film at a time, reporting cheerfully on his progress the whole way. now he's educated! or is he.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I watched The Bad News Bears the other day cos of this poll

Number None, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

the poll is far and away a net plus when it comes to broadening awareness of film history

To be fair, I understand and empathize with the line of thinking that says S&S actually works toward a narrowing of film history awareness, not a broadening.

Eric H., Friday, 10 August 2012 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Meaning that instead of seeing this huge swath of films, people will limit themselves to the kinds of films that get listed (even if only on individual ballots) in the poll? I suppose that's the case with some people, but at a certain point, once you've found your way to something, I think it's up to the viewer to start to branch out. If I end up liking Playtime enough, I can almost guarantee I'll go on to see other Tati films.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's fun to argue about the poll

FUN VS ENLIGHTENMENT

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

The two are not mutually exclusive, you know--I would think someone familiar with Sullivan's Travels (not to mention a million other things) would know that.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

as with The General and Keaton, Playtime is in many ways Tati's most atypical film.

shit, clemenza, that's my point! Going down a list of 50 and 100 is overly circumscribed fun.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

as is having 2 nearly identical presidential candidates...

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

You need a shock collar that zaps you when you get off the thread topic, Morbs.

Your sweet bippy is going to hell (WmC), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, you've lost me. When they post individual ballots online, I'll be pouring over them and making note of things that intrigue me. If someone who lists Nashville and The 400 Blows also lists some documentary from the 1970s I've never heard of, that will catch my eye, and if I stumble over that film at the video store I go to, I'll pick it up. If this compromises some idealized world that you and Bogdanovich hold dear, so be it.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure u Canadians pour maple syrup on those lists, mmmm.

Individual ballots still more valuable than some aggregate of differing methodologies evened out.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Learn something new every day--I think I've been incorrectly using pour/pore in that context my whole life.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric, dead white males do very well in opera, too.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Individual ballots still more valuable than some aggregate of differing methodologies evened out.

No one ever argues against that and yet you (the royal "you") still say it over and over.

Eric H., Friday, 10 August 2012 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Morbs, so no year-end list for yoU?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

the non-film nerds that i've spoken to about this poll ALWAYS say something like "I've never heard of any of them" - sometimes apologetically, sometimes angrily. so i wld like to think that a small number of ppl might just be intrigued enough to check out TOKYO STORY or whatever for the very first time - mission accomplished.

Ward Fowler, Friday, 10 August 2012 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric: people here don't have to say it -- most of the Great Unwashed consulting this list are only gonna look at the group ranking.

(and think Ozau and Kurosawa are the only Japanese directors)

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mizoguchi is on there.

jed_, Friday, 10 August 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

most of the Great Unwashed consulting this list are only gonna look at the group ranking.

Do you have polling numbers on that claim?

"The Great Unwashed"?--not that I don't have my own pockets of snobbishness, but that's a really unattractive thing to say. (Maybe it was meant ironically, I don't know.)

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 17:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought I've made it clear that I am a misanthrope.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

hardcore cineasts are more likely to be unwashed than the rest of the population but i don't have poling figures to back that up.

jed_, Friday, 10 August 2012 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cinemaniacs, specifically

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

clemenza: "always with a little humor"

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought I've made it clear that I am a misanthrope.

Really, tho, how's that working out for you?

Eric H., Friday, 10 August 2012 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol, jed_

Eric H., Friday, 10 August 2012 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hard to say til I'm reincarnated.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

unrecognized by S&S:

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

re the Great Unwashed:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/29346.html

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

always dug that version of 'scrooge.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 August 2012 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

I watched and enjoyed Man with a Movie Camera the other day because it was on this list so thanks Sight and Sound voters, I guess

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Friday, 10 August 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

despite all the problems with lists like these, it was lists like these that got teenage me into really watching movies in the first place. They made me seek out stuff rather than just renting whatever they happened to have at the local video club or watching whatever was on tv. Really made me appreciate all this dead white male culture that existed before my time rather than restricting myself to alive white male culture like most of the people I knew.

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Friday, 10 August 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

i knew a guy once who worked himself dutifully through AFI's top 100, a film at a time, reporting cheerfully on his progress the whole way. now he's educated! or is he.

― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, August 10, 2012 4:27 PM (3 hours ago

i set out to do this as a teenager when the list first came out! i remember being so thrilled that 'kane' -- my fave film at the time -- topped the list. sadly, i never actually finished the list, and kind of lost heart when they redid the list a few years back and threw stuff like 'fellowship of the ring' in there.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 August 2012 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

somebody on Sl4nt picked Fellowship

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 20:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha i did a ballot for a top whatever of 2000-10 for i think it was stylus (but stylus folded well before 2010 so it may just have been for the private amusement of ex-stylusers) and my aggressive #1 was the extended edition of lotr as one giant 12-hour movie DON'T EVEN REGRET IT (altho wouldn't necessarily repeat it)

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 10 August 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

u r banned from all future polls, and Poland.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 August 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

I first heard of L'atalante and The Rules of the Game by seeing them on the '92 S&S list, so, yeah, they worked for me as a young man.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 August 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

DLH do you remember the rest of your list? i like the 'lotr' films well enough but i'd rather reread the books than revisit them.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 August 2012 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

despite all the problems with lists like these, it was lists like these that got teenage me into really watching movies in the first place

On one of the S&S threads, possibly this one, I posted about how much discovering the '72 list (five or so years later) affected me as a teenager.

clemenza, Friday, 10 August 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am Not A Fan of the lotr books. (altho i was v much as a kid.) only sense in which i feel remorse for the ranking is in that it may be the fault of people like me that the hobbit, a book featuring dwarves named "ori" "dori" and "nori", is now a three-film epic shot entirely in instant-replay-o-vision. (this is the one i know i'll rather return to the book for.)

i don't remember the rest of the list but i'm sure i'd change everything on it now. i think mulholland dr was, safely, #2? honestly i might put inland empire above it now, for its... purity. and for the "there was a chemical factory in this town... puttin that shit in the air, so you couldn't think straight" monologue. i may have listed perfume, a very silly and often boring movie saved by dustin hoffman, john hurt, and the courage of its convictions. i think russian ark was on there; in my defense this wasn't mindless OMG ALL ONE SHOT, it was mindless OMG RUSSIA. still love that movie tho.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 10 August 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

i should probably give 'mulholland dr.' another shot. i disliked it intensely but it seems like the ilx consensus favorite from the last decade-ish.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 August 2012 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Morbs, so no year-end list for yoU?

Not a published one. I am not going to spend 3 months "catching up" on Bellflower-level dreck for the privilege.

Also if I am going to be an invalid for a few more months, I'm going to watch what I please.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 August 2012 00:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 01:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

might get to Showgirls this weekend

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 August 2012 01:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh dear.

jed_, Saturday, 11 August 2012 01:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Aw, and I just swore off ILX, Facebook and email for the rest of August. Damn.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 01:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Missed this earlier, but EW's OG thinks critics need to get over themselves if they think Vertigo is better than Kane and, more specifically, if they choose Mulholland Dr. over Blue Velvet. Reads a bit like Armond without the appetite for destruction:

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/08/07/the-sight-and-sound-poll-is-full-of-it/

"The twisting and undermining of narrative is, to me, a cinematic ploy of diminishing returns. Yet it’s one that a critical establishment addicted to the one-hand-clapping thrill of deconstruction now reveres."

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Actually the entire paragraph is pretty stunning in its stubborn wrongness:

Yet Lynch, who was profoundly influenced by Vertigo (and also by Kenneth Anger), upped the ante on the most stylized, formalist side of what Hitchcock brought off in Vertigo when he transformed the plot of Mulholland Drive into a labyrinth that you enter without quite coming out of. The twisting and undermining of narrative is, to me, a cinematic ploy of diminishing returns. Yet it’s one that a critical establishment addicted to the one-hand-clapping thrill of deconstruction now reveres. There’s even a trendy leftist bias to it: In the blockbuster franchise era, straightforward storytelling is seen in some quarters as a tool of the corporation — a way to keep the public narcotized. Whereas a movie that dares to pull the rug out from under its own storyline is a fearless act of art that is “showing you a new way of seeing.” (In truth, it’s probably showing you a new way of looking at your watch in the dark.) It’s according to this way of thinking that Lynch’s three-hour-long Eraserhead-meets-public-access avant dud Inland Empire is a masterpiece — and Mulholland Drive, with its pretzel-logic hermetic dream games, is a superior movie to the visionary yet lushly comprehensible Blue Velvet. But then, maybe that’s why the new Sight & Sound poll gives me a touch of vertigo. When I look at the choices on this list, I feel as if it’s critics who are losing their grip on the popular imagination. And, as a result, are falling.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think he's otm about Blue Velvet's cultural impact, but wrong that it's better than Mulholland Drive. I agree that you couldn't have the second without the first, but that doesn't keep the second from being more amazing. Lynch had a lot of time to think and mess around between those two movies, and he learned a lot.

And thinking that "the twisting and undermining of narrative" is what Mulholland Drive or Vertigo are about seems like the ultimate kind of formalism. The effect of those movies is not in their narratives.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don’t buy the notion that the film’s final shot (a desperate James Stewart standing on the balcony of the Mission San Juan Bautista bell-tower chapel, his hands lowering in a slow swoon of despair) is the Greatest Image Of Romantic Loss In Movie History, or anything like that. To me, it’s an overly abrupt and borderline unsatisfying ending; it’s too consciously “poetic” — which Hitchcock, at his greatest, never was.

disagree with this so strongly i can't even believe i'm reading it -- this is probably my vote for the most amazing shot in cinema history.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Re Mulholland: It's not a gimmick if there's a purpose to it beyond gimmickry.

doglatting (jaymc), Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

OG's complaint seems just a more luxe edition of the "I don't get it" offense.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

"lushly comprehensible," um, OK

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't even think of it as 'poetic.' one moment you're trapped, along with the characters, in this horrible, impossibly fucked-up situation, and then -- in a single sudden shot -- hitch gives you the only possible way out. and the final shot of stewart standing there on the balcony lasts just long enough for you to take in what's happened, and then it's over.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

fwiw I have not seen once in this debate, anywhere, mention of Orson Welles' confession that Rosebud is a 'cheap Freudian gimmick' or some such.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 August 2012 06:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

it wasn't so much a 'confession', more a way for welles to distance himself from aspects of mankiewicz's screenplay after the kane/kael kontroversy

Ward Fowler, Saturday, 11 August 2012 06:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I probably should have said 'admission' -- but didn't Welles say "it was my idea, I'm afraid"?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 August 2012 07:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

The ending of Vertigo is utterly unsatisfying. The film is set up for a non-ending...that it follows through on that in terms of execution doesn't do anything for me at all: weakest part of the film.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 11 August 2012 08:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

madness

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 August 2012 08:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

"dollar book Freud," Welles told Boggo.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 August 2012 11:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

CK > Vertigo
Mulholland Drive > Blue Velvet

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 August 2012 11:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

co-sign

, Blogger (schlump), Saturday, 11 August 2012 11:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Would love to read OG discuss at length about Jeanne Dielman, Satantango and Sans Soleil placing higher than Casablanca.

Oh no wait. Don't want to read that at all.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 12:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, Casablanca is better than Satantango, you just read mine.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 August 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Go away.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, I was talking about how OG could've buttressed his argument that S&S '12 represents an uptick in crix stunting for "difficult" over "lushly comprehensible." Imperfections in personal taste can (and repeatedly have to) be excused.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Man with a Movie Camera shooting up to #8 being the crown jewel of that shift.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 15:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

as for me, i'm just flummoxed at the continuing love affair b/w movie critics and Fellini's films (esp. 8 1/2). if i had to point to a disconnect b/w elite critical & "mass" critical (for lack of a better term) opinion, it would be to Fellini.

KARLOR CAN FUCK ANYTHING! AND HE WILL AND HAS!!! (Eisbaer), Saturday, 11 August 2012 17:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

but Fellini's movie is about movies donchasee

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 August 2012 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's also boring, overlong, solipsistic and pretentious. it's the movie equivalent a Peter Gabriel-era Genesis record.

KARLOR CAN FUCK ANYTHING! AND HE WILL AND HAS!!! (Eisbaer), Saturday, 11 August 2012 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

people who "can't figure out" Mulholland Drive need to not be film critics

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 11 August 2012 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

It took me a while to accept that a lot of people see things in Mulholland Drive that I don't. But I think you've also got to accept that some of us (a minority, admittedly) consider it an often silly film.

clemenza, Saturday, 11 August 2012 17:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

i find lynch's obsessions tedious, tho MD is at least less overtly misogynistic than some of his other films.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 11 August 2012 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure I could stand MD without the silliness!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 August 2012 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

It took me a while to accept that a lot of people see things in Mulholland Drive that I don't. But I think you've also got to accept that some of us (a minority, admittedly) consider it an often silly film.

― clemenza, Saturday, August 11, 2012 5:56 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

SILENCIO!

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 11 August 2012 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

if i had to point to a disconnect b/w elite critical & "mass" critical (for lack of a better term) opinion, it would be to Fellini.

B-b-b-but Fellini movies were basically crowd-pleasers. He was the Jean-Pierre Jeunet of his era.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

SILENCIO!
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:45 PM (50 minutes ago)

Don't you fucking look at me! (Now that's a film I love...)

clemenza, Saturday, 11 August 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

fwiw, clemenza, if you've only seen MD once then it really grew in stature for me on subsequent viewings. i was only so-so about it on my initial viewing.

jed_, Saturday, 11 August 2012 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

To be fair, BV has only diminished in stature for me on subsequent viewings. Both of BV and many other Lynch films.

Eric H., Saturday, 11 August 2012 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it took a dip for me but i loved it again on my most recent viewing.

jed_, Saturday, 11 August 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

I saw Mulholland Drive twice when it came out. But, bowing to the Sight and Sound poll and this thread, I'm going to watch it again tonight.

clemenza, Saturday, 11 August 2012 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Fellini inspired an adjective in the dictionaries, guys, and his films did quite well in America.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Felliniistic--I use that all the time.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 August 2012 00:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

They've got three of these over at Slate:

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 01:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

You forgot to ***SPOILER*** that thing.

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 13 August 2012 01:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

There should be a "Spoiler.gif" thread.

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 13 August 2012 01:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, sorry...hadn't thought about that.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 01:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

A friend sent me PDF files of the print issue--I'll have to pick up a copy this week. All the ballots are supposed to go online on Wednesday. Finished Shoah, re-watched Mulholland Drive, started Satantango tonight.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 01:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

A bunch of pals are now doing this and prompted me for one, so this is as good as any attempt of mine I guess:

The General
Sunrise
Man With a Movie Camera
In a Lonely Place
Les Bonnes Femmes
Seven Beauties
Days of Heaven
RoboCop
Grave of the Fireflies
Synecdoche, NY

Simon H., Monday, 13 August 2012 02:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

“Sight & Sound needs to stop doing this. Now.

...Ten is moronic. You’re talking about condensing over 120 years of cinema into 10 single works. That’s beyond moronic, actually, it’s insulting.”

http://moviemorlocks.com/2012/08/01/ranking-the-greats-please-make-it-stop/

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

would hate to be the kind of person who gets insulted by that

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

First paragraph--his story's identical to mine, right down to The Book of Lists.

If his (and your) argument is that voters should be allowed to submit an expanded list, I'd agree. (Although with the voting list near 1,000, obviously a chore to tabulate.) Maybe as many as 25. But 250-500, like he suggests? That's ridiculous. The meaning of greatest/favourite is long past losing all meaning at that point.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've seen a few bloggers suggest expanding ballots to 20 or more. I'm pretty sure that would make the results less, not more idiosyncratic.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Plus, the delight of the all-important "individual ballots" is in seeing how many concessions were made.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm just thinking of what a list of 500 films would mean for me. By #100, I'd be listing a lot films that I once loved but got tired of, or that just didn't hold up on subsequent viewings; by #250, I'd be listing films I like but wouldn't make any special claims for; by the time I got to the end, I'd be listing films I didn't hate.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, I wouldn't go for 500, but I think any film 'scholar' should be able to list a top 100.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

or better yet, not do one.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

25 to 50 is the highest before I think it loses all personal meaning unless you're a slavish genre/avant/experimental/cult/queer connoisseur.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

clemenza, you really don't like film much. Less than 100 all-time films hold up on 2nd viewings?

I could list however many are needed to get ten each by Hitchcock, Hawks and Fassbinder.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

UPDATE: unless you're a slavish auteurist

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's an argument that I don't really want to get into, one that I've had for ages with music critics who brandish mammoth lists of albums and/or songs at year's end. I like lots. I love very little.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

J.Rosenbaum submitted his third ballot of different titles, and I'm sure has two more in him, so which is he?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Less than 100 all-time films hold up on 2nd viewings?

Not quite what I said, which was "subsequent," not "second"--I might be referring to a fourth or fifth viewing--and I also said "I'd be listing a lot films that I once loved but got tired of," i.e., I still recognize them as great films, I've just seen them too many times and don't, at that particular moment, have any enthusiasm for putting them on a list. I've always treated lists as very much of-the-moment things, whether music or film.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Then Rosenbaum has submitted 30 different films, and has 20 more in him...equals 50 films.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Revive Your Enthusiasm.

also figure six Kubricks, eight Keatons, five Sturges, three Sembenes....

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

For the sake of our film threads, I beg you to watch every '70s NYC movie ever a dozen additional times by the end of the year.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

The way I see it, one of you can't name 100 movies he loves. The other can't name 100 directors he loves.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

This has gotten surreal--you've gone from "lists are an awful thing" to "let's list everything" in 60 seconds flat. (xxpost)

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

No way I could come up with a list of anything more than a hundred, in part because I don't give a shit arguing #54 versus #91. Besides, every list I submit changes the next day.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Lists should be no longer than what you'd take to the grocery store, ideally.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can, I'm just getting started. xxp

Tashlin Aldrich Makhmalbaf Kiarostami McCarey Ford Dreyer Borzage Wilder E.May Cline C.Jones Bunuel Ozu Ichikawa Rossellini Rohmer Lang

The lists are unranked, Alfred.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

The original Out of Towners did not hold up particularly well when I watched it a couple of months ago. They don't all get a pass.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

every list I submit changes the next day.

And this is why Greg Ferrara's latest idea is the right one: Stop.

A 'must-watch' list of ten is for people who don't care all that much in the first place.

The Out of Towners always sucked.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Sight & Sound lists are unranked, no? Everything gets a single point. So--as I continue to unravel this mystery--you're okay with that, I take it.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

No canon = no history, I'm sorry to say.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 18:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

100 is reasonable, anything more is ridiculous.

There are probably like a thousand movies I still need to see to feel anywhere near complete as a viewer, and even I could rattle off a list of a hundred that'd still leave me feeling like I've made some serious cuts.

to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

A 'must-watch' list of ten is for people who don't care all that much in the first place.

Who are these people!? Not the people who consented to vote, else you'd be talking about Rosenbaum, Hoberman, etc. You must instead be referring to some imagined group of people who are looking at the Sight & Sound Top 10 and deciding "Good--I just have to see these ten films, and then I never have to see another film again." Even if they're looking at something that goes on to list the whole Top 50, or 100.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

If it wasn't for movie lists I probably wouldn't have gotten into film to the degree that I did. The AFI list, as middlebrow as anything could be, turned me on to The Searchers, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Double Indemnity ... Sight and Sound played a similar role for me with films like Man with a Movie Camera. Who cares if the lists are authoritative or not? They're portals toward a better, richer understanding of film for people who may or may not have access, or someone to guide them away from the "slobcoms" Morbs hates so much.

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

if ya gotta put out a collective list of ten... then don't rank them, in the style of the AFI's annual ten. Right now at least a third of the debate is over which is better, Kane or Vertigo, and that's a waste.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

6:35

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

people get all wound up because they want to see their little favourite do well and when it inevitably doesn't they call bullshit on the whole process (see also: every ILM End of Year Poll ever). this is a laugh that can have some benefits and hey, Man with a Movie Camera and Sunrise etc that's pretty good. Interesting shit probably always a bit further down the list. However you pick doesn't really make a difference, I guess. I like Igniaty's method.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Monday, 13 August 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Igniaty's method, tho, was to first draw up a list of some 135 or so movies.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah. You gotta start somewhere.

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Monday, 13 August 2012 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

God forbid you should link to "Igniaty's method" because GOD KNOWS we've all read every damn blog post connected with this decennial watusi.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

He made a list of 135 movies and then picked ten out of a hat.

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Monday, 13 August 2012 19:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess it was 90 titles in IV's case.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

If I did that method, I'm pretty sure I'd end up doing 4 or 5 or 17 draws before winding up with a list I could live with. I bet he also did one or two extra draws.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Right now at least a third of the debate is over which is better, Kane or Vertigo, and that's a waste.

How is people debating the relative merits of Kane and Vertigo a bad thing? I know--you're going to say it's bad because it excludes the thousand other things they could be debating instead. But my guess is that you'd complain about 831 of those debates too.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's because the qualitative difference between two of the greatest films ever made is too small to pick apart ad nauseum.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Based on the assumption that you agree with the premise. Not all of us do, so for me it's a debate worth having.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

I agree with clemenza here. There's a good article to be written off the argument Owen G. only begins to pick at in that post upthread.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 20:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Eric, did you recognize all of the sl4nt listers? I don't read the site exhaustively, but jeeez....

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

(Revives self from heart attack induced by "I agree with Clemenza.") Another reason I think it's an interesting debate is the unusual path that Vertigo took to #1--not just difficult to see for an extended period of time, but literally out of circulation. There will always be a part of me that wonders how much films like Vertigo, L'atalante, or Napoleon (which seems to have disappeared) benefit from having a kind of mystique attached to them due to unavailability. I'm not saying it's a large factor, but I do think there's a little bit of that in there.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Some are HND contributors, not Sl4nt.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 20:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure the release of the full cut of The Rules of the Game in the early sixties secured its high placing. You can never count out extrinsic forces. I guess I'm not as bowled over by What Vertigo's Victory Means as some criics because Hitch's film has been a top ten finalist for a long time.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess I'm not as bowled over by What Vertigo's Victory Means as some criics because Hitch's film has been a top ten finalist for a long time.

its incremental ascendence is kinda interesting though; from nowhere to eight to four to two to one or whatever it was, like it makes a neat-enough-curve on a graph to make people look for a cause

, Blogger (schlump), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah it's the Bert Blyleven of American cinema

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't want to overstate it, and it might even be an expression of simple gratitude that you can finally see this thing that you've heard about but could never see. Anyway, I always tell myself not to start analyzing why other people like what they say they like, and obviously I still fall into that trap.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 20:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

take for example Armond White wringing yet more dirty dish water about the solipisism of American critics. To him that's What Vertigo's Win Means.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

films that are more widely exposed via restoration/DVD do jump onto the list of 50 or 100, someone summarized them recently. It only makes sense.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

At the most fundamental level--and maybe this is what Gleiberman wrote about, I'd have to go back and check--there's such a stark contrast between the two in terms of tone that I find fascinating. Kane represents this abundant, free-wheeling, try-anything-once daring, while Vertigo's much more in line with the carefully controlled, cerebral (by which I'm not diminishing Kane's intelligence, believe me), moody kind of film at the other end of the spectrum. Kane is Nashville, Vertigo is Barry Lyndon. So playing them off against each other is an interesting entry point into figuring out what critics most value at this particular point in history. Not that you couldn't have the same debate centered around Kane and L'avventura or any number of non-English equivalents, so maybe it's just interesting because they both happen to be American studio-era films.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

take for example Armond White wringing yet more dirty dish water about the solipisism of American critics. To him that's What /Vertigo/'s Win Means.

TBH, a valid read. Especially if you subscribe to the theory that Nick James openly campaigned for a Citizen coup.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm not kidding myself that this isn't going to be the highest Jeanne Dielman ever places.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

by which I'm not diminishing Kane's intelligence, believe me
Paging Kael's "shallow" quip.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok, those negatives are losing me. xp

who knows what the scope of their electorate might be in '22?

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

That was in ref to new availability boosting movies' placings. Now that anyone can see it, I expect Dielman to settle below the 50 and maybe 100 mark in future polls. Lonesome to peak in '22.

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/SightSoundmag/statuses/235806517704663040

Eric H., Wednesday, 15 August 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Good to know--I've been checking regularly all day.

clemenza, Wednesday, 15 August 2012 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha ha ha ha. i spent some time before falling asleep yesterday wondering whether i was the only person in the world breezily curious about what was in jim jarmusch's 2012 s&s ballot

very sexual album (schlump), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

we can only hope.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sincerely looking forward to this year's ballots with Radley Metzger on them.

Eric H., Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Here's Monte Hellman's list to tie you over, schlump (he wasn't in the '02 issue): The Spirit of the Beehive, Outcast of the Islands, Stavisky, Casablanca, Le Samourai, Goodbye Dragon Inn, House of Flying Daggers, The Asphalt Jungle, Storm Over Asia, Children of Paradise.

clemenza, Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol. i could go so much deeper, i could make top tens of my s&s top tens. #1's miranda july fyi.

very sexual album (schlump), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

monte hellman has interesting taste (i bet anyone who included house of flying daggers lingered with their pencil over the paper for a second & then thought sure why not). i can't remember whether we have already celebrated the real memorable moment of this poll which was tsai ming-liang also choosing goodbye dragon inn.

very sexual album (schlump), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

LOL

Eric H., Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

(Am sort of surprised Goodbye Dragon Inn didn't do better overall, since it's such an obvious bookend, et al.)

Eric H., Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah I don't know; I can't really tell what suffered but the last 20 years seemed to do really badly - i am sure there is a psephological reason like lack of mutually agreeable selections, &c but i'm sure a bunch of people voted for slow shit, uzak, tsai, kiarostami/or michael mann &c

very sexual album (schlump), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

My eyes glaze over when someone lists eight or nine from the Top 100. Mike Hodges, another voter not in the '02 issue, has a noir-heavy list I like: Ace in the Hole, Charley Varrick, In a Lonely Place, Kiss Me Deadly, Le Samourai, Sweet Smell of Success, The Asphalt Jungle, The Bad Sleep Well, The Killing, The Prowler.

clemenza, Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

That list makes my eyes glaze over.

Eric H., Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

My eyes glaze over when someone lists eight or nine from the Top 100. Mike Hodges, another voter not in the '02 issue, has a noir-heavy list I like: Ace in the Hole, Charley Varrick, In a Lonely Place, Kiss Me Deadly, Le Samourai, Sweet Smell of Success, The Asphalt Jungle, The Bad Sleep Well, The Killing, The Prowler.

― clemenza, Wednesday, 15 August 2012 20:26 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it depends though, it's very- idk what, enlightening?, significant?, poignant? - seeing how canonical a bunch of the non-canonical/avant-gard-ish guys are. so the rest of tsai's list is Sunrise, Dreyer's Joan of Arc, The Night of the Hunter, 400 Blows, L'eclisse as well as a bunch of name Euro stuff. same kinda deal w/bela tarr, farhadi, &c

very sexual album (schlump), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Comparing a director's favourite films (and I get the sense directors flat-our vote much more for favourites, regardless of whether they think the film is important or not, than do critics) to his/her own work is enlightening, yes--fun even. All I mean is, just as a practical matter, I can only look at so many lists where the same 100 films are reconfigured and reordered. When someone has a list filled with films not in the Top 100, it automatically catches my attention.

clemenza, Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

My eyes perked up at Outcast of the Islands.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 19:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

rad
http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012

i've gotta watch spring in a small town

(there are no director polls yet afaict, idk whether they're forthcoming)

very sexual album (schlump), Thursday, 16 August 2012 11:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

LOL, fun. Duck Soup tied with The Turin Horse.

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wall-E @ #202 o_0

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Morbs will be delighted to learn that The Shining clocks in at #154, making it only the fourth highest-ranking Kubrick movie after 2001, Lyndon and Strangelove.

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

(director polls comin' aug 22, fwiw fyi fwiw)

very sexual album (schlump), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha I just noticed #90: Partie de campagne (1936)

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

first inclusion of the wire, siren.gif, http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/voter/411

very sexual album (schlump), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ pretty sweet list overall

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sad, apparently Joel (The Opening of Misty Beethoven) David didn't vote this time around.

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Morbs will be delighted to learn that The Shining clocks in at #154

Behind Paths of Glory, so fuck that.

Haven't clicked on any of this new info. Don't care.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

most everything appearing at #127 would make a rad list?

=127 Spring in a Small Town (1948) Fei Mu
=127 Do The Right Thing (1989) Spike Lee
=127 Out 1 (1990) Jacques Rivette
=127 Tropical Malady (2004) Apichatpong Weerasethakul
=127 River, The (1951) Jean Renoir
=127 Jules et Jim (1962) François Truffaut
=127 Pulp Fiction (1994) Quentin Tarantino
=127 Meet Me In St. Louis (1944) Vincente Minnelli
=127 argent, L' (1983) Robert Bresson
=127 Ikiru (1952) Akira Kurosawa
=127 Three Colours: Blue (1993) Krzysztof Kieslowski
=127 Don't Look Now (1973) Nicolas Roeg
=127 Celine and Julie Go Boating (1974) Jacques Rivette
=127 Annie Hall (1977) Woody Allen
=127 Apartment, The (1960) Billy Wilder
=127 Last Laugh, The (1924) F. W. Murnau
=127 Hiroshima Mon Amour (1959) Alain Resnais

very sexual album (schlump), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Those are all to varying degrees marvelous.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

boot Rivette

haven't seen Out 1, can't imagine ever doing so.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess if I'm pressed Celine et Julie can go drown.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Haven't clicked on any of this new info. Don't care.

Way to change your tune when it's convenient, Mr. "I only care about individual ballots."

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't think anyone voted for LA Plays Itself, it seems like the kinda catch-all modern synecdoche some critics might've plumped for

very sexual album (schlump), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

do u mean Thom Andersen or the porn film?

yeah well, Things Change (also a better film than a lot of these) xp

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

if Criterion puts LAPI out in the next ten years, you'll see it somewhere. Histoire(s) playing synecdoche this time.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost I hope you feel better soon.

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry, flinty today for reasons nothing to do w/ S&S.

UT prof's list shows the perils of "media" departments.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

The all-important Armond ballot drops Spielberg siren.gif

http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/voter/783

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

and Jaime voted for The Patsy!

http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/voter/520

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Movies don’t change but we do. I did not see Sansho the Bailiff until recently and it had the same powerful effect on me as A.I. did ten years ago, so off with Spielberg to give Mizoguchi’s masterwork its props. Godard’s rarely screened Nouvelle Vague looms in my memory as his grandest work – grander and more important still due to cinephilia’s recent decline

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, Out 1 should be top ten, not as low as #127

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Amy Taubin included Cosmopolis as her Sansho the Bailiff.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Huh, Amy T. really did stunt for Cosmopolis.

http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/voter/819

lol xpost

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

AW: the big drop is due to gameplaying, no news is good news

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ridiculous exercise! Shouldn’t it be 25 greatest by now? How can I leave out Late Spring, Topsy-Turvy, A Woman Under the Influence, Inland Empire, Germany Year Zero, L’Age d’or, L’Atalante, Barry Lyndon, Killer of Sheep, Orpheus, Xala, Imitation of Life, The Uncertainty Principle, Fear Eats the Soul, Angry Harvest and on and on. Or perhaps I should have named only Histoire(s) du cinéma – no more idiosyncratic than this list, and far more generous.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 12:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Inland Empire earned 6 votes.

http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/film/4ce2b8bf0cf11

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

My favorite list so far:

http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/voter/87

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

(excusing Eternal Sunshine)

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

so this guy's into chainsaws of all sorts

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

his bio shoulda read "the aptly named Stephen Thrower."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

The only ballot with an Artist mention:

http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/voter/458

Eric H., Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I was all set to complain, glad this is finally up. Crumb got a vote--way to go, Mike Maggiore.

clemenza, Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

and your beloved His Girl Friday!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

stephen thrower wrote one of the all-time great books about american independent/exploitation cinema:

http://www.fabpress.com/vsearch.php?CO=FAB070

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Zodiac got three. A Slant guy voted for Zodiac, Il Posto, and Dazed and Confused, so his is my favourite list so far.

clemenza, Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Irreversible AND Dogville... time to burn that book. xp

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 August 2012 13:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

just rewatched Dazed, preferring it to Sl