Luck: HBO series: David Milch, Dustin Hoffman, Michael Mann

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Dustin Hoffman has agreed to do television, signing on to star in David Milch's new HBO project "Luck," according to Variety.

HBO last year ordered a pilot for the drama, which revolves around the world of horse racing and betting. The combination of Milch and now Hoffman -- plus previously announced director/executive producer Michael Mann -- would seem to make "Luck" all but a lock for an eventual series greenlight.

Dennis Farina and John Ortiz are also part of "Luck," which will begin filming this month, Variety said.

can it compete with the wagon wheel (Eazy), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 17:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

will watch

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 17:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

super-psyched

the archetypal ghetto hustler (history mayne), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 17:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

super-psyched seconded

sonderangerbot, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 17:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

man, I've heard so much crazy shit about milch, hope to god this actually coalesces into something watchable.
love dude so much tho

forksclovetofu, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 17:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

As long as the horses don't levitate.

can it compete with the wagon wheel (Eazy), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 17:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

srsly is there a milch biog out there? or even a good, long mag piece?

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 17:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

When was the last time that Hoffman did anything worthwhile?

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

He was great in American Buffalo, and this sounds like potentially similar lowlife territory.

can it compete with the wagon wheel (Eazy), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Didnt Milch use his genius grant money to buy a race horse? Should be good..

mayor jingleberries, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'll stan for him in I Heart Huckabees and his appearance in Stranger Than Fiction was easily one of the better points of that movie.

you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

huckabees

Hideous Lamp (cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

amped for this

goole, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah I am excited

dmr, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Milch has owned or part-owned two really good horses that ran in the Breeders' Cup. Val Royal and Gilded Time

there's a pretty good Q&A with him behind the paid subscription wall at my place of employment (D41LY R4CING F0RM), would c+p but I don't wanna get busted

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=110717

dmr, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 18:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Didnt Milch use his genius grant money to buy a race horse?

Humanitas award, iirc. Don't think he ever got a macarthur grant. He tells this (very hilarious) story in an interview in some book I have somewhere.

Clay, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 21:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

this could be good.

btw walter hill directed by the pilot of deadwood, which had some extraordinary moments. where did that guy's career go, though?

by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, 3 March 2010 22:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

i got abt half way thru that nyer profile before realizing id read it before. milch is kinda a frustrating guy in a lotta respects imo. idk, i recently queued up hill street blues, which ive never seen, so we'll see.

wait, dmr works 4 the drf ? who's gonna win this rachel alexander v zenyatta race

johnny crunch, Thursday, 4 March 2010 04:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

"btw walter hill directed by the pilot of deadwood. . . where did that guy's career go, though?"

Supernova and then Undisputed.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 4 March 2010 04:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah I'm their Internet editor

Rachel has a license to improve from age 3 to 4 so if she is better than last year I don't see her losing

dmr, Thursday, 4 March 2010 04:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

anyway yeah I hope this will be good. one of my friends is down on Hoffman being in it but I dunno, seems like it will be a good place for him to reconnect w/ his Ratso Rizzo midnight cowboy dirtbag roots

dmr, Thursday, 4 March 2010 04:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hoffman is good in whatever he's in, he just picks a lot of bad stuff to be in.

richie aprile (rockapads), Thursday, 4 March 2010 05:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

horse article mentioned upthread:

Q&A: David Milch

Emmy Award-winning television writer and producer of shows such as "Deadwood" and "NYPD Blue" is about to begin production of a new HBO show, "Luck," set at a racetrack

Birthdate: March 23, 1945, in Buffalo, N.Y.

Family: wife, Rita Stern; daughters Elizabeth and Libby; son Ben.

Got into racing because . . .: "My Dad was involved in it. He was a surgeon. He used to take us to Saratoga in August, which is good because that's when the racing was."

Why do you like it so much? "It's an extremely complicated and sometimes obscure business to try to understand. That's how I try to make my living. It is a venue of both fascination and dread. That's usually where people spend most of their lives."

Describe the synopsis of "Luck": "It's kind of a top-to-bottom, kaleidoscopic view of life at the track. Gamblers, trainers, owners, administration. In the same way that 'Deadwood' followed multiple storylines, that's what we'll be doing. I do believe a racetrack is a community, like 'Deadwood' was."

What is the timetable for when the show airs? "We hope to go on the air in January of next year. We are going to start shooting in March. We'll shoot and then probably stop, fine tune, then go back. We'll be shooting at Santa Anita and then probably in Santa Clarita at the Autry Ranch, where we shot 'Deadwood.' Right now we're doing all the casting and BS. It's safer for me to write."

Why did you decide to do a show set at the track? "I started writing this show in 1973, something like that. As I said, it's a venue of fascination and dread. It's something that compels your interest and gives you access to your imagination. If you're going to sustain a series, you need all of those components. The racetrack has always been that for me. It's a setting for drama of all different kinds. The fundamental appeals are prehistorical. It has to do with man's ostensible mastery of his environment and subordination to the outcome. Man likes to think he is the master, but in fact when they are 40 yards from the finish, you realize it hasn't got much to do with you now."

Will we see any familiar racing faces having cameos, or more, in "Luck"? "Absolutely. It's my hope and intention, and we're pretty well along toward realizing it, that a whole bunch of jockeys will have main roles in it."

Al Swearengen in "Deadwood" was the greatest TV character ever. Do you have a similarly diabolical character in "Luck"? "I don't think Swearengen was diabolical, except for two-thirds the time. I think this show can be really good for the game. It's warts and all, but it's still a beautiful, beautiful sport, and I think its warts only add ultimately to the complexity of its beauty. I don't know how many more times I'll get to the plate. This is the one I've been wanting to do my whole life."

Play casting agent. Who would play your trainer, Julio Canani, in the "Julio Canani Story"? "We've cast the part of Escalante, a trainer who is roughly based on Julio, except he tells the truth a little more. But who doesn't? He's going to be played by a wonderful actor named John Ortiz, a theater actor from New York who has a theater company in New York with Philip Seymour Hoffman."

How often do you attend the races? "It depends on who I'm lying to. I have several different masks that I wear."

Best gambling story ever: "The day my horse Disturbingthepeace won the [2002] Bing Crosby at Del Mar, I had him singled at 16-1 in the pick six. That was OK. I almost broke even that day. I had the pick six, and with all the consolations it paid like a quarter of a million dollars."

Best horse owned: "Gilded Time. Val Royal was a lovely horse. Tuzla was a great filly. I loved Marvin's Policy because he was such a trier. Echo Eddie, he broke his maiden in a maiden claimer up north, won a million dollars, and got beat a nose in the Golden Shaheen in Dubai. I've been lucky to be associated with a whole bunch of good ones."

Biggest win as an owner: "Val Royal [2001 Mile] and Gilded Time [1992 Juvenile] in Breeders' Cup races. I guess Gilded Time because he was not bred to go two turns. He didn't really want to do it. It's not because he won a Breeders' Cup race, but because what I got to see was the deepest and most important aspect of horse's gift - his indomitability, bravery, resolution."

Best horse seen: "I guess Dr. Fager breaking the world record at Arlington. That was a pretty serious performance."

Why were you in Chicago? "I was just being a degenerate. I was knocking around at that time. I was involved in a pharmaceutical delivery service."

Favorite TV show other than one you've worked on: "'Naked City.'"

Hobbies: "Ineffectual excuses."

Childhood hero: "Luke Easter, a baseball player for the Cleveland Indians who played in the minor leagues for the Buffalo Bisons. He was at end of his career then. There was a kid coming up, and Luke used to say, 'With your legs and my brains, I'd still be in the major leagues.'"

Childhood dream: "To live past childhood."

People most admired: "The presidents of all the investment banks, because they're the best crooks I know about."

Future racing-related ambitions: "To see the realization of 'Luck.'"

(Head) (Lamp), Thursday, 4 March 2010 05:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

"I don't think Swearengen was diabolical, except for two-thirds the time." Good answer.

Jouster, Thursday, 4 March 2010 08:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

i have really been liking dustin hoffman lately. if anyone hasn't seen STRAIGHT TIME, do so now.

by another name (amateurist), Thursday, 4 March 2010 09:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^ funnily enough, michael mann helped write it

the archetypal ghetto hustler (history mayne), Thursday, 4 March 2010 09:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

I read a copy of the pilot not that long ago. Funny crazy-wisdom stuff about "the degenerates" -- compulsive gamblers (one on a Rascal scooter) made me laugh out loud, but a little bit of the JFC poetic-jargony-quirkiness made it a difficult read. Also, the racetrack lingo seemed to lack both the hard-bittenness of Milch's cop shows, and the zonked-out beach mysticism of JFC and, honestly, felt a little bit like latter-day-Mamet. That said, I will definitely watch this.

Remington Q. (remy bean), Thursday, 4 March 2010 15:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

Great to hear about the script, remy.

Maybe Nolte too.

can it compete with the wagon wheel (Eazy), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 17:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.tvgasm.com/newsgasm/nick-nolte-mug-shot.jpg
"Green Flash is a lock in the 7th, his mudder was a mudder"

dmr, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 18:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha shit.

dmr, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 18:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

i look forward to this series ending unresolved after one season, leaving everyone frustrated and angry.

akm, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 18:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

apparently d-hoff is super-famous for being a hard-on about script-approval so im kind of amazed he's agreed to do serial television

the archetypal ghetto hustler (history mayne), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 18:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

commenters from blog that posted the Nolte news

Amazing Grouping. Will be interesting to see
how quickly it implodes after Milch and Mann
start the wrestling match for control.
Both are micro managers and used to their
own way on projects!
Can’t wait for the fireworks.
#

Good luck getting episode 3 in the can with this group !!! Could be one of those projects that looks great on paper, which it does, but is impossible to produce because of the personalities involved. Hoffman, Nolte & Mann stories are legendary. WIll be interested to see how they work together on a television schedule, even if it is an HBO television schedule (12-14 days per episode).
#

dmr, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 18:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

I wonder how accurately they will portray some of the degenerate horse racing gambler types. The ones I see at the track who bring their entire family while they sit there and bet on every single race.

mayor jingleberries, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 18:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

what's wrong with a guy bringing his family to the track. are they bored? is he betting the rent money? kinda painting with a broad brush there.

dmr, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 19:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^^^ capn. save-a-gambler

dmr, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 19:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

I bet on every race when I go to the track. That's kind of the point, innit?

Jockey underworld will be more interesting than stock degenerate gamblers. Dudes puking and popping laxatives to stay light.

FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 19:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah milch and mann are super-notorious control freaks.

watch the bonus features on the deadwood box set. the poor credited directors have to kind of sit back and smile warily at the camera while milch jumps in and gives the actors direction.

that said, i got the feeling that the deadwood features were all about elevating milch to some kind of television godhead, so it may be that they choose to include the footage that made it look as though he was the central or even sole creative force. which is belied by the fact that some episodes of that show were pallid, while others (notably the pilot directed by walter hill) were really great.

by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 21:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

i should add: pallid and great in a way that suggested the hands of a director at work.

by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 March 2010 21:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

who's gonna win this rachel alexander v zenyatta race

― johnny crunch, Wednesday, March 3, 2010 11:02 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

Rachel has a license to improve from age 3 to 4 so if she is better than last year I don't see her losing

― dmr, Wednesday, March 3, 2010 11:37 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

haha well .... Rachel just lost to a horse not even as good as Zenyatta in what was supposed to be Rachel's easy comeback race so don't listen to me, obv.

Rachel vs. Zen probably won't happen now, at least not on April 9. (Zenyatta won again today and looked good)

sorry to hijack Milch thread with real life horse racing news, back to our regularly scheduled programming ...

dmr, Sunday, 14 March 2010 00:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

David Milch reading with Q&A:

http://media.sas.upenn.edu/writershouse/10A/Milch-David_Fellows-Reading_KWH-UPenn_04-26-2010.mp3

caek, Saturday, 8 May 2010 16:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

full season done been ordered

I’ll put you in a f *ckin Weingarten you c*nt! (history mayne), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 20:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

watch the bonus features on the deadwood box set. the poor credited directors have to kind of sit back and smile warily at the camera while milch jumps in and gives the actors direction.

ehh tv directors know what the score is

coldfrap - foam mountain (s1ocki), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 21:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

like to see him give directions on michael mann's set

I’ll put you in a f *ckin Weingarten you c*nt! (history mayne), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

when does the pilot/full season air?

caek, Wednesday, 14 July 2010 21:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

love the scenes of milch on pillows, dictating the script in front of an audience on those bonus features. all that's missing is a grape-feeder.

da croupier, Wednesday, 14 July 2010 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

next year

like, the 'boardwalk empire' pilot was done about this time last year. kind of chill that hbo film a whole season before airing it -- i guess you can keep the whole thing more consistent than on deadline-chasing network tv?

wonder when the bigelow series is coming. hbo must have deep pockets.

xpost

I’ll put you in a f *ckin Weingarten you c*nt! (history mayne), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

john from Cincinnati kinda soured me

i'm gonna need a +1 so me & a friend can kick you in the balls (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 15 July 2010 05:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

this gonna be as shitty as boardwalk empire or

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 13:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

hope not ;_;

caek, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 13:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

me too, maybe this is the that'll stick

hbo needs it tbf

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 13:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

what was the last good hbo series? curb?

caek, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 13:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

"The 'Miami Vice' director's return to the small screen is part of a migration of top talent."

You're going to go w/ "Miami Vice" out of Michael Mann's repertoire, LA Times?

JIMMY MOD THE SACK MASTER (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 13:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

well, miami vice was the last time he did tv so.......

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 13:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

what was the last good hbo series? curb?

― caek, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:55 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

eastbound!

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 13:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

do people still watch treme? i liked it at first but had like a physical aversion to watching it. same with boardwalk empire. it just feels exhausting.

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

See is it bad that I thought of the move and not the TV show? xp

JIMMY MOD THE SACK MASTER (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

treme was dreadful. i'm going to give boardwalk maybe a couple more episodes. the most recent one was the least bad so far but still hard work.

when was the last good hbo drama? feel like the answer is oz tbh.

caek, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

are you joking?

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

sopranos? wire? 6 ft under?

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol forgot the wire

caek, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

in my defence, that was nearly 100 blog years ago

caek, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

oz was before blogs even existed!

cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

slock, check your gmail

once a remy bean always a (remy bean), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

treme is great, y'all are high

Brick Frog! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 14:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

The 2006 film "Miami Vice," a remake of the television show with very little evidence of that heritage, was seen as a creative misstep, and it grossed a lukewarm $164 million worldwide (its production budget was $135 million).

guess the LA Times doesn't read the blogosphere.

Also ya'll are crazy. Treme was great, Deadwood is the best show ever made, Rome was solid fun, In Treatment has been very good, and Boardwalk Empire is just now finding it's legs.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 15:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

rome was awesome

guanciale diary (s1ocki), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 16:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

what was the last good hbo drama? feels like the answer is arli$$

ok we are pals (Eazy), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 16:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

BTW, in that UPenn link up above, Milch reads the pilot script for Luck (reads all the parts and the directions and everything) and it's good.

ok we are pals (Eazy), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 16:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

They just put up a Q&A with Milch at the LA Times:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2010/10/david-milch-hopes-for-visceral-experience-with-hbos-luck.html

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 16:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/f71b5774-dd62-11df-beb7-00144feabdc0.html

next movie projects are battle of agincourt and 50s chicago gangsters

caek, Monday, 25 October 2010 16:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

Another Michael Mann interview

Ballard, Dick (Eazy), Monday, 25 October 2010 23:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oops, same link as caek.

Ballard, Dick (Eazy), Monday, 25 October 2010 23:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

David Milch and Michael Mann are two of the most imposing intellects and autodidacts in the biz, so the notion of them collaborating is almost mind-boggling.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 02:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

I would kill a man if it would ensure that Agincourt gets made.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 02:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

this could be good.

btw walter hill directed by the pilot of deadwood, which had some extraordinary moments. where did that guy's career go, though?

― by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, March 3, 2010 5:32 PM (7 months ago) Bookmark

For some reason I thought Walter Hill was dead... guess I was thinking of George Roy Hill.

Can you really call Milch an autodidact when he graduated from Yale? Unless you're saying he's like... a student of life or something.

Princess TamTam, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 02:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

do people still watch treme? i liked it at first but had like a physical aversion to watching it. same with boardwalk empire. it just feels exhausting.

― cathy: ACK-er (s1ocki), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:00 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark

I felt the exact same way about Treme... I think the scene where Bunk gets his teeth knocked out by a cop really made me realize how enormously unpleasant watching the show made me feel. Boardwalk's airier and more fun to me though, even if it's way more violent and gross.

Princess TamTam, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 02:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

the 67-year-old filmmaker has shown a profound gift for connecting human emotion, music, color and light on the big screen

lol trying to write abt wtf michael mann is up to

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 02:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

from the article:

Luck is the latest example of talent from the big screen crossing over to TV and boasts a cast that includes Dustin Hoffman, playing a seasoned gambler, Nick Nolte and Dennis Farina, a former cop Mann first worked with 22 years ago on his TV series Crime Story.

didn't they first work together on Thief?

Princess TamTam, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 02:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

i waited on treme until i could watch the whole season in one week and it felt like a massive perfect movie.

The Saga of the Unkillable Mr. Poppins (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

you mean massively boring imperfect boo-vie

candid gamera (s1ocki), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

sorry, yes, that's clearly what i mean.

The Saga of the Unkillable Mr. Poppins (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 13:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

np

candid gamera (s1ocki), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 13:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

man I thought this was supposed to start airing in January. now they're saying autumn of 2011.

dmr, Friday, 29 October 2010 20:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

got to side w/team slocki over team forks when it comes to tremé, sorry john

cozen, Friday, 29 October 2010 20:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

tremé was awful, overbearing forcefeeing of david simon's BIG VIEWS. i feared boardwalk empire had a similar level of heaviness/tediousness (i didn't watch episode 2 till this week) but i love it now, it is worth sticking with.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Friday, 29 October 2010 21:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

overestimating the BIG VIEWS argument of Treme imo.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Friday, 29 October 2010 21:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

but i think when your mouthpiece commits suicide it is an intentional complication of those big views.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Friday, 29 October 2010 21:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

David Milch is a total school of life autodidact. That New Yorker profile is one of the most fascinating things I've ever read. The guy's a genius, and I almost got the impression the Ivy League had more to gain from him than he it.

Here's a taste:

[Robert Penn] Warren had arranged for Milch to begin teaching seminars in fiction and poetry at Yale that year and to work on a two-volume textbook anthology of American literature that he and Lewis were editing with Cleanth Brooks. It didn’t take Milch long to acquire a cult following; his classroom style was vibrant, earthy, and often derisively funny, and details of his avocational exploits enhanced his mystique. For instance, he was a gambler who knew a great deal about horse racing and was writing a screenplay set at a racetrack. (Were his students also aware that he was an alcoholic and a heroin addict?) Depending on how one interprets the data, Milch was either bedevilled by self-destructive urges or possessed of keen survival skills that sustained him in the face of unhealthy compulsions. A superior student—he graduated summa cum laude and won the prize given for the highest achievement in English—he was an unlikely member of the jock fraternity (Delta Kappa Epsilon; George W. Bush, president), which provided a venue for his main extracurricular activity: drinking.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact_singer

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 29 October 2010 21:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

Some great Milch stuff at The Idea of the Writer. His lectures tend to be more about his experiences than anything else, but they're still enjoyable. I seem to remember really liking the USC Religious course one myself.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Friday, 29 October 2010 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

In fact that might be place where he discusses John from Cincinnati being about preventing genocide through mercantilism.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Friday, 29 October 2010 21:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

man, i would say treme is three (3) times as good as john from cincinnati
and (almost?) as good as deadwood

a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Friday, 29 October 2010 23:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dude, Treme is nowhere near Deadwood quality. Deadwood was just a zillion times more entertaining, the only thing that kept me watching Treme was the great cast, and I doubt there's any force of nature that could get me to watch a second, John Goodman-less season.

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 04:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

shrug

a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 30 October 2010 05:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Deadwood is the greatest show of all time. Treme is very good, but it's about equal with John from Cincinnati (though for different reasons). Treme has a lot of potential and a great community vibe, so I think it's worth sticking with.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Saturday, 30 October 2010 05:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

the Cult of Milch makes me a little suspicious/skeptical, honestly. i liked deadwood a lot but it was really pretentious, and some episodes just didn't work. it felt like twin peaks levels of bad-with-the-good sometimes.

by another name (amateurist), Saturday, 30 October 2010 07:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

pretty sure it wasn't 'the greatest show of all time.' it had a couple of the same flaws as 'boardwalk empire' -- gratingly 'upscale' violence against women, bit slow -- though obviously it pisses all over 'boardwalk empire' [via ian mcshane crushing it].

it's always random in wackydelphia (history mayne), Saturday, 30 October 2010 10:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

How many dramatic TV shows have been better than Deadwood? You could probably count them on one hand. I'm not saying it was perfect, but 'pretentious' doesn't really scan as a great criticism to me, or at least not one that I really care about. I mean, I don't have anything really interesting to say about the show except that I liked it a whole lot, but is pretention really bad if the show is still massively entertaining? Is it really a lot more pretentious than The Wire? That's a show which I love but also found much more wearying with its laser-like focus on being an IMPORTANT show about IMPORTANT things. I guess either it works for you or it doesn't.

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 12:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'd put deadwood in top ten tv dramas

a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 30 October 2010 13:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think Deadwood is very enjoyable on a surface level. I don't know what's pretentious about that. John from Cincinnati was probably pretty pretentious though. Also 'upscale violence against women' - yawn.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Saturday, 30 October 2010 13:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

deadwood was amazing but it's lack of a conclusion hurts the series as a whole I feel, or think; I mean I never finished watching it once it got cancelled. maybe I should.

I think HBO has had a solid run with dramas again lately. Boardwalk Empire and Treme are both excellent.

akm, Saturday, 30 October 2010 14:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's a shame that Deadwood got cancelled, but it was hugely successful at what it wanted to do during its run, so I can't hold anything against them. Even the third season, which I found to be unsatisfying first time through, improves immeasurably upon second viewing.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Saturday, 30 October 2010 14:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

The last shot is pretty depressing, which sort of flies against the optimism of the series, but it's fitting in its own way.

No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Saturday, 30 October 2010 14:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

i liked the first season of deadwood okay but i couldnt really get into the 2nd. mcshane was great, but i felt like i had enough.

candid gamera (s1ocki), Saturday, 30 October 2010 15:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

did u watch the third

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 15:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

no should i

candid gamera (s1ocki), Saturday, 30 October 2010 15:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbh i thought most of dude's "shakespearean command of language" was a lot of lorem ipsum mumbo-jumbo

candid gamera (s1ocki), Saturday, 30 October 2010 15:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha, yes, i'm listening to these idea of the writer lectures and most of the sentences remind me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorless_green_ideas_sleep_furiously

caek, Saturday, 30 October 2010 16:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Season 3's the worst so I dunno if I could recommend it to someone who was sick of the show by s2, but there's some cool stuff in there... like one of the most memorable fight scenes I've ever seen on film or tv.

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 16:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

candid gamera (s1ocki), Saturday, 30 October 2010 16:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Now you don't need to bother!

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 16:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also 'upscale violence against women' - yawn.

― No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Saturday, October 30, 2010 2:36 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

shrug

all im saying is these shows are a bit too tasteful

but 'boardwalk' is way way worse on that score

think 'deadwood' had a pretty good non-conclusion conclusion -- it always ducked the really massive 'oh shit' possibilities, not just in the third season

it's always random in wackydelphia (history mayne), Saturday, 30 October 2010 16:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Boardwalk is too tasteful? I don't follow you. It doesn't seem very tasteful to me.

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 16:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

Deadwood wasn't cancelled, which just adds to the myth. It simply stopped. But then again, Milch et al. sort of boxed themselves in by using real characters. When one of your major villains is a future US senator, you can't just kill the guy off.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 30 October 2010 16:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

the way deadwood ended def brought it down a notch a two ime - still v classic tho

ice cr?m, Saturday, 30 October 2010 17:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

original idea was to include the historical flood and fire that each destroyed the town and other wild shit - iirc hbo canceled it then changed their mind but milch was already working on that piece john from cinini so he was gonna do two movie length eps then that never happened neither - agreed it couldve been more compelling if he didnt worry abt historical feality

ice cr?m, Saturday, 30 October 2010 17:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I could've dealt with season 3 ending the way it did if I knew there was more coming, but for that to just be IT - eugh

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 17:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

can we go easy on the deadwood details? planning to watch it at xmas.

caek, Saturday, 30 October 2010 17:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

guys caek still hasnt seen star wars so just chill

ice cr?m, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean you can talk about star wars vs. beverly hills buntz in generalities but please no details

caek, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

SPOLIER bullock and swerengen get gay married final ep is their honeymoon in CINCINNATI

ice cr?m, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dan VS The Captain was one of the most intense things i've ever seen in a drama. Kinda feel like rewatching deadwood again now!

a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

the season 1 veronica mars shit was the coldest shit i've ever seen

omar little, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

the movie length pieces never ever ever happening + john in cinci being difficult to justify really soured me on deadwood in retrospect.

a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

kind of surprised major #teamolyphant bro s1ocki has not seen s2-3

it's always random in wackydelphia (history mayne), Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dont like frowny deadwood/diehard olyphant

candid gamera (s1ocki), Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i accidentally wrote that in caps, shoulda left it like that

candid gamera (s1ocki), Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

sardonic justified olyphant is better though i always liked the fact that in deadwood his character was pretty much insane

omar little, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

ya i like olyphant with a lil twinkle in his eye

candid gamera (s1ocki), Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

he was really good in 'the crazies' too imo though that movie was kinda bullshit

omar little, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

the season 1 veronica mars shit was the coldest shit i've ever seen

― omar little, Saturday, October 30, 2010 2:18 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark

I had to think about this for a minutebefore I realized it wasn't a non sequitur! I think that was the first time I ever noticed Kristen Bell, and yeah that episode was amazing IMO.

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

That ep is vital, too, because it marks a real shift in the show. I've told lots of folks on the fence about Deadwood after one or two eps to make it to the Kristen Bell ep, which really emphasizes the show's theme of degrees of evil. Like there;s evil, then there's evil so evil it makes the first evil only seem modestly evil.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 30 October 2010 18:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha totally, at 1st yr all this swerengn fellow is quite awful, by the end hes a saint in comparison

ice cr?m, Saturday, 30 October 2010 19:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

i always liked the fact that in deadwood his character was pretty much insane

― omar little, Saturday, October 30, 2010 2:29 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its a more realistic view of a moralist than usual 4 sure

ice cr?m, Saturday, 30 October 2010 19:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah when he's introduced you're just like oh here's our squarejawed noble hero, but eventually it just turns out that he's a bully and a dickhead?

Princess TamTam, Saturday, 30 October 2010 19:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

and awesome

Kerm, Saturday, 30 October 2010 19:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

Deadwood is def my fave show ever. Please do not compare it to Boardwalk Empire.

Simon H., Saturday, 30 October 2010 21:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

Joan Allen has joined for an arc.

Dork City (Gukbe), Thursday, 4 November 2010 00:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Despite some logistical challenges and ensuing "mental stress," HBO is "thrilled beyond belief" to be filming the high-profile drama at Santa Anita, said Henry Bronchtein, the co-executive producer of "Luck."

ice cr?m, Friday, 26 November 2010 18:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

looking forward to this getting cancelled in the middle of the story

akm, Friday, 26 November 2010 19:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Milch on Zenyatta and the Breeders' Cup Classic
http://www.drf.com/news/final-and-deepest-gift-zenyatta

dmr, Friday, 3 December 2010 20:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
3 months pass...

Gukbe, Monday, 18 April 2011 17:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah that looks frickin sweet

cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

it'll be nice to see hoffman doing something substantial again

cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Wow--nice.

Four Shouters Shouting (Eazy), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

this looks awesome

dmr, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 00:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

"i cast tom waits as nick nolte as a kentucky trainer with a lot of mileage in his past"

sensual bathtub (group: 698) (schlump), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 00:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

horse riding sequence looked surprisingly exciting. also I think I spotted a very Mann-ish chair-kicking shot.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

sorta feel like this and treme's second season might force my hand to get hbo finally

My bad Van Buren! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 04:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

lol you watch treme

caek, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 09:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

not lol. no lols. stern serious lectures you watch treme.

Will.Have.Known (Local Garda), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 10:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

this board's derision for treme mystifies me but hey ymmv

My bad Van Buren! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 12:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't think it was just this board

Number None, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 13:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah i guess there was the boston herald too
http://www.metacritic.com/tv/treme/season-1/critic-reviews

My bad Van Buren! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

yes a lot of critics gave treme As when it came out

da croupier, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

If they still liked it when the season ended I dunno, but few pro critics were like "I shit on this show about New Orleans from the Wire guy" when it came out

da croupier, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

Treme is great.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

I didn't actually mean critics though. I don't know anyone irl who liked it and a lot of people who strongly disliked it.

Number None, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

i don't really talk to anybody irl about television tbh

My bad Van Buren! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Unfortunately 90% of my conversations are pop-culture based

Number None, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'm not saying that with any pride btw, it's just that most of my friends watch different tv than i like
and i can't see chatting up the work folks with "that modern family is a SCREAM, rite?"

My bad Van Buren! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

My father-in-law liked it but he's a professional musician who has probably skipped out of many cab fares in his day so I think he's biased

da croupier, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

Treme is great. suckers walked into it expecting The Wire set in New Orleans and got mad that it was a different show.

gr8080, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 18:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

treme is dope. gotta say that luck looks awesome, too. wish i had hbo, might have to re-up on that.

omar little, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 18:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

treme was really good. different from simon's other stuff but who wants him to do exactly the same thing over and over? I don't. glad to see him out of baltimore for a change.

luck looks good. HBO has some good stuff, again, after a year or two there where it was getting kind of bankrupt.

akm, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 22:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

I have high hopes for Armando Ianucci's upcoming HBO show "Veep"

Number None, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 22:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

I didn't like Treme much, but what I like even less is people who say I didn't like it because it wasn't "The Wire."

What do I know, though, I liked John from Cincinnati a whole lot.

Jouster, Thursday, 21 April 2011 01:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

u only liked John from Cincinnati bc it took place in an old timey western frontier town

Mordy, Thursday, 21 April 2011 02:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

xpost

yeah i realize thats a disingenuous throwaway remark, sorry.

i loved John from Cincinnati too

gr8080, Thursday, 21 April 2011 02:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

I loved John from Cincinnati with the Milch commentary track on and the regular audio track off.

Four Shouters Shouting (Eazy), Thursday, 21 April 2011 04:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

when do we get a tv show created by the cohen bros

gr8080, Thursday, 21 April 2011 07:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

i'm actually really surprised mann had that big a hand in it in the first place. i figured it'd be a thing where he just directs the pilot and slaps his name on the show a la scorsese & boardwalk empire, but according to this:

After what an HBO source describes as "serious" discussions, Milch has the final word on scripts, but Mann decides everything else, from casting to cutting to music. Clearly that is not a situation to which Milch, the Emmy-winning writer-producer of NYPD Blue and Deadwood, has lately been accustomed.

(.づ☀‿☀)づ ~da post-modernist struggle~ (.づ☀‿☀)づ (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 10:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

rad, cochi loco is in this

caek, Tuesday, 14 June 2011 10:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

mann loves ortiz.

(.づ☀‿☀)づ ~da post-modernist struggle~ (.づ☀‿☀)づ (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 10:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

Mann decides everything else, from casting to cutting to music.

wonder who else is directing

someone who's got a bit of swarthiness in them (history mayne), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 10:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

Terry George and Allen Coulter apparently (me neither).

Stevie T, Tuesday, 14 June 2011 11:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

HBO's gonna have their 'house' guys direct it like they do with every show.

(.づ☀‿☀)づ ~da post-modernist struggle~ (.づ☀‿☀)づ (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 11:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

Didn't Terry George do Hotel Rwanda?

Number None, Tuesday, 14 June 2011 11:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

Totally inevitable. Two of the smartest, toughest, most head-strong, most perfectionist auteurs in the biz, collaborating? Ha. I'd watch a show about their behind the scenes fights.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 14 June 2011 12:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Premieres in January.

Gukbe, Thursday, 28 July 2011 22:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

This better be good

Number None, Monday, 26 September 2011 20:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

The pilot is going to debut after the Boardwalk Empire finale on Dec. 11, with the season starting proper in January.

encarta it (Gukbe), Monday, 31 October 2011 23:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

the pilot was pretty dope

Aerosol, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 16:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

I liked it. There was some discussion on the sandbox TV thread, maybe I'll copy it over when sandbox comes back

dmr, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

downloads furiously

lag∞n, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

I liked it. It was confusing, but pretty.

The Brainwasher, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

when does the season start

maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

i bet the horse betting stuff is gonna confuse the crap outta me

maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

think it starts at the end of the month

Number None, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah the real premier is Jan. 29 (which I assume will be the pilot showing again, with a new ep on Feb 5)

dmr, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

The pilot for this was insanely good.

Mordy, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just love Milch's writing. It's like otherworldly Shakespeare, in that it takes you a bit to get into the rhythms, etc., but once you do, you feel much more connected to it. You have to PAY. ATTENTION. I like that he doesn't seem concerned with realism in his dialog at all, but it also seems like whatever the style becomes, it will have its own consistency, and therefore will become more comfortable/decipherable for the viewer over time.

schwantz, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

so this pilot ain't on HBO Go?

walking liquidity crisis (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 January 2012 01:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

no shockingly!

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 01:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

probably cos it was a sneak preview deal

Number None, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 02:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

mordy i can't seem to reply to you on facebook, but i'm okay waiting

walking liquidity crisis (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 January 2012 02:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

its on teh torrents just fyi

lag∞n, Wednesday, 4 January 2012 02:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

holy cow that horse run very good.

⚓ (gr8080), Monday, 9 January 2012 06:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Pilot is Michael Mann, though, right? I wonder who they got to direct the other eps. Probably called Walter Hill off the bench again, I hope.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 9 January 2012 12:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

that horse run very good

caek, Monday, 9 January 2012 12:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

from the sound of things Mann was heavily involved throughout

Number None, Monday, 9 January 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Since it's an HBO drama, the rest are probably directed by Tim van Patten, Allen Coulter, and company.

Cheap desert locations (Eazy), Monday, 9 January 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

And a quick look at IMDB gives the directors of the subsequent episodes as Terry George, Allen Coulter, Philip Noyce, Brian Kirk, Henry Bronchtein and Mimi Leder

Number None, Monday, 9 January 2012 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

I found the incessant use of music on the pilot incredibly annoying and the starry casting a bit distracting. Didn't really feel any real Milchian zing in the dialogue. A little underwhelmed all round.

Stevie T, Monday, 9 January 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

possibly just me but i found a couple of the accents incomprehensible

dustin hoffman was amazing i thought

looked fantastic of course

caek, Monday, 9 January 2012 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

not much of a starry cast, i thought? just nolte + hoffman and both had really subtle performances imo

Mordy, Monday, 9 January 2012 15:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Jose Yero's accent takes some close listening.

Cheap desert locations (Eazy), Monday, 9 January 2012 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Was pretta hypes to see Richard Kind show up. He could be in every show and movie and i probably wouldn't complain. But yeah, somewhat underwhelmed by this. Deadwood came out swinging, it announced itself. So many memorable moments all these years later from that pilot. I'm not at all sure what this is going to be after the first episode.

Clay, Monday, 9 January 2012 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

that cajun can pump

caek, Sunday, 15 January 2012 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

music for the last race btw, knew i recognized it from somewhere

caek, Sunday, 15 January 2012 03:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

i just rewatched this, it is amazing

caek, Sunday, 15 January 2012 03:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

finally watched this, I think I liked it, kinda felt like a high end csi miami, i thought he speed and power of the horses way portrayed really well

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 01:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

didnt feel that mannish tho

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 01:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

or that milchish either now that I think abt it, tho the degraded milieu as single organism will prob reveal itself as the show goes on

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 01:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

jockey girl is cute

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 01:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

horse execution was sad

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 02:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

hoffman provoked the suspicion of the boss guy via dictaphone in order to lay a guilt trip on him, p deft, looks like hes out for revenge

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 02:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah this looks like it's gonna be p sweet

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 02:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah I didn't think there was that much of a Mann feel to it either. and I think the pilot is the only one he actually directed in the first season

dmr, Friday, 20 January 2012 03:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm willing to bet the visual palette he established, esp. w/ regards to the horse-racing scenes, will be stuck to pretty closely.

Simon H., Friday, 20 January 2012 03:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

jockey girl is cute

― lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 01:57 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

she has a lot of sex in rome season 1

caek, Friday, 20 January 2012 09:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think I watched most of that but dont remember anything, who was she

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i was trying to think who she played cuz damn

Aerosol, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

did it with an old lady and her brother iirc (i do recall correctly)

caek, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait hang on

caek, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

no i'm right. had a moment of total panic then when i thought i'd misremembered who she had sex with.

caek, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

a GIS of her is nsfw

caek, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like the ridiculous camera movement and big sound when hoffmann throws his chair back, and then his confused old man thing when he realises he's torn his buttons

caek, Friday, 20 January 2012 13:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah the whole tone of the show was v unusual

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 14:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

a curious cable drama, if you will.

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

is it actually on HBO yet?

this is funny u bitter dork (forksclovetofu), Friday, 20 January 2012 16:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

starts next sunday the 29th

the pilot is on on-demand now tho (at least on nyc cablevision)

dmr, Friday, 20 January 2012 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Just noticing that not only is the pilot on three times in a row on Sunday night, it is on ever HBO channel except for HBO Family on Monday night at the same time.

encarta it (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 23:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

every*

god i haven't been able to write 'ever' or 'every' properly all day today.

encarta it (Gukbe), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 23:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

have you every

lag∞n, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 03:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

ever time i tell you

encarta it (Gukbe), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 03:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wish HBO Family had an alternate version, with just the horses.

do you not like slouching? (Eazy), Wednesday, 25 January 2012 05:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

couple of Dai1y Rac1ng F0rm articles people might find interesting (disclosure - this is where I work)

Milch interview
http://www.drf.com/news/new-drama-luck-reveals-racing-milch-sees-it

Character bios and some of the real-life people who inspired the characters
http://www.drf.com/news/hbos-luck-cast-characters-real-life-inspirations

dmr, Friday, 27 January 2012 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

they are really pushing this as of late, lotta advertising

johnny crunch, Friday, 27 January 2012 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah it's on pretty much every bus and subway tunnel here. TV ads ran during the Golden Globes.

dmr, Friday, 27 January 2012 16:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Im going to Santa Anita this weekend to celebrate

strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 27 January 2012 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

ad running during justified, which is a smart buy

this is funny u bitter dork (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 January 2012 18:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Im going to Santa Anita this weekend to celebrate

haha nice, are you playing the "Sunshine Millions Luck Pick Six"

they really are going all out with the tie-ins

SA has some good races Saturday

dmr, Friday, 27 January 2012 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

dmr tell us abt yr relationship to the horse racing world

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

theres a fucking bikini contest tomorrow. lucky for all involved its gonna be like 85 degrees out.

strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 27 January 2012 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I enjoyed this!

So, I've been shooting a longterm project at another SoCal racetrack for a couple of years now. Should I feel delighted or irritated that the sport is back in the public eye? I'm no Michael Mann, but I have some pretty sweet race shots.

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Stills a little on the soft side, but there you go:


Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

what is this all abt, tel

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 19:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

tell us of the racing

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 19:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've just been documenting the track and the people that go there, really. I don't know what it will be or is "about". Track is right next to LAX , takes up a hugely outsize parcel of real estate given how little money it makes and has been rumored to be demolished for a few years now. So I've just been hanging out during racing seasons, accumulating footage, talking to people, etc.

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

I actually don't do a lot of betting but I am still a "Gold Card" holder, haha. I get offers in the mail, cheap beers and such.

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

can u explain the structure of a pick six, its some sort of knockout pool no

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 19:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

What the show sort of confirmed for me is the sense I get of this being every bit the subculture it seems to be. I don't claim to understand the majority of the pageantry, ritual and lingo involved but race fans capacity for this stuff amazes me.

xp - I think so? Or some kind of accumulator?

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

From what I see, the majority of the jockeys and trainers are Latino, not sure if this goes for the owners and breeders too.

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i was v v confused about how a pick six works, but also i can't understand how craps work either

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's certainly strikingly different to the idea of what horse racing is in the UK, though I've never actually been to Santa Anita or the Kentucky Derby or any of those things. Would love to go.

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

adamrl otm: i've only been to the race track a few times, only bet on a few races and p much broke even, but hanging out, drinking bloody marys with buddies, and just soaking up this totally weird and foreign vibe that is at the same time toally american and familiar was super fun and way more interesting than i had expected

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

yah the track is kinda magical ime, tho ive only been a few times too

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

its really a trip getting excited when everyone else around you gets excited, and then looking around in the same instant and seeing dozens of crestfallen or outright enraged people

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

thinking abt it the pilot really did capture that heighten energy well didnt it

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 19:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I think that is the abiding memory of the track for me. That it is this regular cycle of almost 30 mins of really quite boring, humdrum ritual followed by two minutes of rising tension/excitement/disappointment that ends in a furious ten seconds of screaming...then starts all over again. I want to do a wide shot where I just train my camera on the crowd for the duration of a race and watch their reaction. Love it when you get these huge, lumbering guys jumping up onto their seats to watch the finale.

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^all this otm but you forgot the alcohol part

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

and hot dogs

Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

and horses

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, the whole "these huge animals that can't talk to anyone are the athletes" thing is really a big part of what makes it so weird, too. it def becomes more apparent when watching racing on tv than being at the track, but i'm really looking forward to how milch plays w/ that.

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

luck bronys

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

dmr tell us abt yr relationship to the horse racing world

I'm the managing editor for web at the Form. worked there 8+ years, before that my only involvement in racing was as a fan. group of college friends started road-tripping to the Ky Derby every year and I got hooked.

can u explain the structure of a pick six, its some sort of knockout pool no

pick six is just, pick the winners of six races in a row. I guess you could call it a knockout pool because if you miss one of the winners, you lose.

xp - I think so? Or some kind of accumulator?

the accumulator part is that if no one hits the pick six on a given day (it can be really hard to hit if some longshots win) then they pay out part of the pool as a consolation prize to people who got 5 out of 6 and hold the rest as a bonus jackpot for the next days pick 6. if no one hits the pick six for a few days in a row then that jackpot can get really huge which is what happens in the Luck pilot episode

dmr, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok but it looked like some of the races they could have had any horse win, and some they needed a specific horse to win?

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, the pick six costs more depending on the amount of houses you are picking to win. so they hedged picking only the one in that one round and then had the cash to spread across a number of different horses in other rounds

Mordy, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^

Aerosol, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dont think that's exactly right cause were it true in situations where theres a lot of rolled over money itd make sense just to bet every horse, my impression was that there was an overall cap for the number of horses you could bet in all six races

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok that would make sense

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

not really. the thing is with each horse you bet the cost of the ticket goes up exponentially

Aerosol, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

like if you played the field on each race you tick would cost a billion dollars

Aerosol, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

right, what did they spend on their ticket? $20k?

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 20:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

when you have a large carryover there are like huge conglomerates that pole together to buy a $10,000 ticket

Aerosol, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

the pick 6 is not set uo to be user friendly

Aerosol, Friday, 27 January 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

right, what did they spend on their ticket? $20k?

I think they bet $800-something

handicapping wonks who are much wonkier than me (I don't bet pick sixes, costs too much $$$$) claimed that the ticket as written out on "Jerry's" napkin should have cost $3K

dmr, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

looking forward to dmr's posts itt as much as i am looking forward to this show!!

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 27 January 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahaha. hi-5

dmr, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

not really. the thing is with each horse you bet the cost of the ticket goes up exponentially

― Aerosol, Friday, January 27, 2012 3:41 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tbf this sounds a lot more like what I said than what u did

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

or what moldy did

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol ipad

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dont think that's exactly right cause were it true in situations where theres a lot of rolled over money itd make sense just to bet every horse

i was responding to this. just saying that this ticket would not be cost effective

Aerosol, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

ah so yes ty for that info it was I think the missing piece

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw factoid it is often a winning proposition to buy every lottery ticket once the pots get big enough, just not logistically feasible

lag∞n, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol

Aerosol, Friday, 27 January 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

My aunt and uncle paid for their daughter's wdding with a pick-six win.

do you not like slouching? (Eazy), Friday, 27 January 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ok, just saw the pilot. Not bad, not amazing. The soundtrack--Sigur Ros as a horse is euthanized in particular--were distracting. Felt rather unengaged during most of it, yet when it was over I wanted to see more.

No Deadwood, not yet anyway, but I'll keep watching.

Who wants to see the great Pavarotti sit on a pie? (jer.fairall), Monday, 30 January 2012 06:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Could do without the Massive Attack theme song (good song, wrong fit), the cajun guy, the handsome picks guru, and Dustin Hoffman. Otherwise, good stuff.

polyphonic, Monday, 30 January 2012 22:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk how anyone can do without dustin hoffman

Mordy, Monday, 30 January 2012 22:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's easy.

polyphonic, Monday, 30 January 2012 22:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

dustin is best

lag∞n, Monday, 30 January 2012 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm a total dustin hoffman stan after seeing straight time. his performance in that one is one of the most committed and convincing and _physical_ performances i've seen.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 30 January 2012 23:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

super dope movie 4 sure

lag∞n, Monday, 30 January 2012 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah it's the best basically

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 30 January 2012 23:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

and there's a connection in that michael mann did an uncredited rewrite on straight time.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 30 January 2012 23:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

wow did not know that

lag∞n, Monday, 30 January 2012 23:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like Dustin's Hoffman's good performances. I did not care for him in the pilot of Luck, and also I did not care for him in Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium.

polyphonic, Monday, 30 January 2012 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dustin's Hoffman's

polyphonic, Monday, 30 January 2012 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

the review in nyer says he kinda just plays it as a cypher the whole time and gives u nothing to care abt but im gonna go ahead and see for myself

lag∞n, Monday, 30 January 2012 23:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah from evidence of pilot episode, he is not doing much to make his character likable (sp?) or easy to read

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 30 January 2012 23:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

like-able?? jesus that word looks wrong no matter how i spell it.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 30 January 2012 23:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

likeable often confounds me as well

Hungry4Ass, Monday, 30 January 2012 23:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

second episode pretty great too

Mordy, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 04:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

how are you seeing episode 2-- is it on demand already?

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 04:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ive read that it's on hbo go

Clay, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 04:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, it's on hbo go

Mordy, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 04:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Haven't seen the show, but that NYT descrip of "detente" btwn Milch and Mann made me laugh. They must've nearly gouged each other's eyes out.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 12:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha that piece was so these two guys

lag∞n, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 14:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Written by David Carr (main subject in the documentary Page One), who's very Milch-ian himself.

Burritos are one of the things I'm nostalgic about!!! (Eazy), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 14:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Renewed btw.

encarta it (Gukbe), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

niiice.

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

now if he can somehow weave in john from cincinnati characters

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

that group of hairlips all work at the track now

encarta it (Gukbe), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Here's a good article on one of themes of the pilot episode:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1137939/index.htm

polyphonic, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

can't get that link to work, is it about Alydar?

dmr, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't want to say what it is due to being sort of an episode spoiler?

polyphonic, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

first episode has aired... i think spoilers for it are fair game now?

Mordy, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Okay. It's about horse injuries.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

now if he can somehow weave in john from cincinnati characters

Levitating horse?

Burritos are one of the things I'm nostalgic about!!! (Eazy), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

was thinking surfing on horse but not sure if that realistic

lag∞n, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 23:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

***SPOILER***

Burritos are one of the things I'm nostalgic about!!! (Eazy), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Could it be a holy ghost horse?

polyphonic, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 23:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

u think u can double cross ppl or lie on ur word + ur promises LIKE OUR MUSLIM PRESIDENT FROM KENYA?!?

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm loving this. And yes the birther bit was a nice touch.

Simon H., Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dustin Hoffman + Miami Vice's Cochi Loco

‘Neuroscience’ and ‘near death’ pepper (Eazy), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

loving John Ortiz on twitter. he seems like a bro. Escalante is the best character.

dmr, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm starting to think that Nolte's character is gonna be this series' Ellsworth. He's even got a pooch as a sidekick.

Second episode definitely better than the first, or maybe I'm just growing into the show more. That birther bit, and that whole scene, really, was hysterical.

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 03:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

thinking abt it, it's amazing how much set-up they've packed into these 1st 2 eps

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 12:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

the scene between Ace and Gus where they explained Ace's prison stint was really clunky. I guess the writers just wanted to get the whole backstory out there in one shot but it didn't really make sense to have them tell each other a drawn-out story that they both already knew.

dmr, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

is episode 3 on HBO Go now or was it only the second ep that they put up early?

dmr, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

just second ep. third isn't up yet.

Mordy, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 18:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

the scene between Ace and Gus where they explained Ace's prison stint was really clunky. I guess the writers just wanted to get the whole backstory out there in one shot but it didn't really make sense to have them tell each other a drawn-out story that they both already knew.

yeah it was jarring how out of character this was compared to everything else

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 18:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

By the way this is the Alydar story I was referring to upthread, the real-life version of the Delphi plotline. Had not ever heard about this until Luck came out.

Suspicious death

On November 13, 1990, Alydar appeared to have shattered his right hind leg in his stall at Calumet Farms in Lexington, Kentucky. Emergency surgery was performed the next day in an attempt to repair the injury, but the leg broke again. On November 15, Alydar was euthanized. At the time the owner of Calumet Farm was in dire trouble financially, and suspicions of foul play by the management were raised. John Thomas (J.T.) Lundy was indicted and convicted in 2000 on separate fraud charges and served nearly four years in prison. The farm's former attorney, Gary Matthews, was also convicted and received a 21-month prison sentence.

In Houston Federal Court, MIT Professor George Pratt testified that Alydar had to have been killed.[3] He speculated that someone had tied the end of a rope around Alydar's leg and attached the other end of the rope to a truck that could easily have been driven into the stallion barn. The truck then took off, pulling Alydar's leg from underneath him until it snapped; he testified that the force involved was at least three times that which a horse was able to exert. About five days before Alydar's injury his original night watchman, Harold "Cowboy" Kipp, testified that he was at work on the farm when he was ordered to take Tuesday, November 13th off.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alydar

Alydar was second in the 1978 Derby, Preakness and Belmont behind Affirmed, who won the Triple Crown

dmr, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeesh. so it was like an insurance scam or?

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

allegedly yeah. but never proven it court that the death wasn't an accident.

dmr, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

in court

dmr, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

liked this one better than #2.

i think i always need a good 4 or five episodes w/ milch before i get in the groove though.

⚓ (gr8080), Monday, 13 February 2012 23:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

I dug this episode a lot.

polyphonic, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 00:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

after being confounded by episode 2, gf and I have decided to let this sit on the dvr until about episode 5 or 6 to see if the immersion method improves things. Good to know people are liking it though.

Clay, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 00:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

MZS on Episode 3 and why should stick it out

I think he's seen the whole season though.

encarta it (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 00:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

The most resonant scene in the episode, if you're looking for critical metaphors, is the one in which the four amigos (who name their stable 4A) go to visit Escalante, hear an itemized tutorial on what it costs to train Mon Gateau, then ask if they can get to know the animal. Escalante hands each of them a carrot and tells them how to offer it to the horse. "Keep your hand open," he warns them. The scene cuts after successive images of the four men holding out carrots and the horse regarding them warily.

^^loved this scene, especially the way it ended like that

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 00:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Best thing about this episode: the promise that Joan Allen will be appearing in future ones.

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 02:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

dont like that the derivative kid's name is nathan israel

love that they are using the bbq @ ep's end

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 02:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha yeah that was a nice touch

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Missed that.

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 02:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

re the horse scene and the cosmicness of horse scenes in general are a strong contrast to the pettiness of the humans, def my fav thing abt the show so far

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

it dawns on them that they are meeting this horse, its a living thing that they have a connection with now and they should make some sort of gesture and they all kinda lose it

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

overall my enjoyment of the show has been intermittent, feels a lil uneven idk

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

the scene w/escalante in his house w/the vet when he says you wanna do it vibed the most mannian to date, i guess he didnt direct that ep tho

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

it dawns on them that they are meeting this horse, its a living thing that they have a connection with now and they should make some sort of gesture and they all kinda lose it

otm, also i feel the symbolism of them standing with their hands open in front of an unpredictable beast after receiving a laundry list of expenses is some very cool ~foreshadowing~

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah good point do they own the horse or does the horse... own them

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

i eat all your carrots i eat them up

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

irl lol

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 04:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

just imagining the horse saying that to them

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 04:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

what if mid-season we started hearing all the horses' inner-dialogue

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 04:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

in the voices of bruce willis + roseanne barr

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 04:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

lolz i had the idea that s2 should be like the movie 'racing stripes' - talking horses all the time

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 12:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

when I first saw the pilot I was kind of annoyed that they had a fatal breakdown so early on. like "really, they had to go there in the pilot??"

but as you watch more episodes I feel like that scene adds tension to every racing scene. you're watching these spindly legs pound the ground and wondering whether one little step is gonna take you back to that gruesome scene from the pilot. I think that's why they put it in the first episode, to show the stakes and make you feel how the trainers feel, that even when things are going great you're one little stumble away from disaster

dmr, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 16:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

also presumably bc mann wanted the opportunity to direct the fuck out that scene and not leave it for someone to do in a later episode

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

the racing scenes are p intense/terrifying

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was thinking about how much work they must be logistically-- like three horses running close together from an aerial shot, then the same three horses in the same formation from a tracking shot, cut to a 2nd tracking shot, etc

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah they must have to run and film each race multiple times to make the various racing "moves" happen at the right time for the narrative

like "so-and-so drops back early, is boxed along the rail, eyeballs his rival but finally pulls away" ... it's got to be really hard to make a whole bunch of horses end up with a scripted result like that

dmr, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

totally-- it makes the racing scenes all the more exciting to watch imo

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

the other thing I like about the show is how it represents the rhythms and routines of track life, like each episode starts with people waking up, there's morning workouts, then a big crescendo for the afternoon's races -- maybe you win, maybe you lose, let's go talk it over at the bar and get ready to do it all again tomorrow

dmr, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 18:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

always ends with Ace and Gus shooting the shit in Ace's bedroom

dmr, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

is it just me or does it seem like no one is watching this? (not on ILX particularly, but like, out in the world). I don't really hear anyone talk about it.

I think they fucked up by having episode 2 air against the Super Bowl. I know it was already renewed and the ratings are supposed to be ok but doesn't really seem to have much buzz except among critics.

dmr, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

i could def see this being not popular

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw why is ace so intent on sending this kid to annoy his enemy

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

and ace is kinda big shot huh he mumbles something and the bord moves $50m like nbd

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought the kid was going to be the go-between he said he needed in episode 2.

encarta it (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

refresh my memory if you dont mind

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think John From Cincinnati did a lot to derail the Milch train, tbh. Like, I loved Deadwood and I think Michael Mann is a genius, but I haven't even downloaded this yet, and that's free.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

interesting

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

so many characters on this show are hard to understand

like from one scene to the next you go from the trainer with the difficult Spanish accent (that other characters joke about not understanding), to the trainer who just mumbles shit under his breath and talks to himself, to the guy who stammers

it seems like Milch wants it to be a "thing" (the importance of getting good information vs. all these communication barriers or something)

but with all that + the racing jargon it seems like he's holding the audience at arm's length a bit and almost wants to make it as tough as possible to know wtf is going on

dmr, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

We're also living in the golden age of serialized TV - even the good comedies are serialized, to a degree - and there are only so many hours in the day. My wife and I have been catching up with Community, then we want to see season two of Justified, then we (she?) wants to watch Downton Abbey. And there a whole bunch queued up after that before we can get around the Luck. There are only so many narratives we can juggle at once, I guess.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

well be sure and check back in once you watch it

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

re the difficulty in understanding wtf people r saying, it sounds like its even recorded or mixed weird, bad choice imho

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think John From Cincinnati did a lot to derail the Milch train, tbh. Like, I loved Deadwood and I think Michael Mann is a genius, but I haven't even downloaded this yet, and that's free.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:58 AM (35 minutes ago)

ha i didnt watch deadwood until watching all of JFC and loving it

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

best horse racing scene ever filmed btw is climax of 1979 'black stallion'

watch it.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Agreed that Milch is dedicating himself to increasing the incomprehensibility with each show, and that it will probably hurt the audience - I really like the fact that I have to watch all these twice to really figure out what is up, though. (And the show's already been renewed for S2 afaik)

The Ace-Gus relationship (older married couple) seems like a more successful riff on the JfC subplot involving the hit men waiting Beckett-like in that motel and bickering - those scenes just went on forever to no real purpose, whereas the 'and how was your day, dear' codas with Ace and Gus seem really sweet emotionally and help to explain the plot.

I like how Nolte acts totally oblivious to the seething machinations of everybody around him, he's so focused on doing the right thing.

Brakhage, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Sports Illustrated article upthread is great if you want to understand the epidemic of horse breakdowns. I went into the 3rd ep knowing a lot more than I did before I read that

Brakhage, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

(And the show's already been renewed for S2 afaik)

it has, they're casting for extras at Santa Anita and start shooting at the end of the month

dmr, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

hm, next ep was directed by aussie phillip noyce

ratings dont look great but i dont really know what a sunday night hbo show is expected to do, esp. starting out; plus yeah, up against super bowl, the grammies, oscars in two weeks, they cant expect big #s those weeks

feel like there probably is a small female viewing base for this just based on subject matter

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

next ep was written by one of our (DRF's) columnists, Jay H0vdey

he's in the end credits of every ep as a staff writer but #4 he got the main credit at the opening

I guess at this point I should just fess up that I've seen the whole season (no spoilers). I was underwhelmed by episodes 2 and 3 after liking the pilot pretty well but it gets much better from here IMO.

dmr, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dont really know what a sunday night hbo show is expected to do, esp. starting out

I don't know either but I heard it was getting clobbered by Shameless in the same time slot

I would guess HBO probably takes the long view though, everyone watches these shows on DVR and DVD anyway

dmr, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

feel like there probably is a small female viewing base for this just based on subject matter

― johnny crunch, Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:36 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yah this is a srs man show

lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

i get to go to the races in AZ next weekend, so stoked

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

dmr how do i find out who's running on the 26th?

this website is less than helpful: http://www.rillitodowns.com/Racing/Race_Entries_%26_Results.html

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry i should prob take this to a racing thread

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw i watched 1975 altman movie California Split last nite.

so so so good i immediately wanted to watch it again. not really a horse racing movie but it revolves around gambling in general but has a few horse racing scenes and exists in the same so-cal world as this show imo.

highly recommended supplemental viewing

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

super dope 4 sure

lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

love that movie

dmr, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

gr80 I answered you on the other thread

dmr, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

thanks, dmr.

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 21:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Fantastic direction in this latest

Brakhage, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

slo-mo race scene was kind of weird, mostly awesome

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Was wondering why no discussion on this. Best episode yet, I say. The race was beautiful.

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thought the music in The Big Scene was a bad choice (too heavy-handed) but it was still pretty great.

Gary Stevens was awesome in this episode (he is a retired Hall of Fame jockey in real life btw)

The Ray Charles song at the end was cool too

dmr, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

The music didn't bother me. In terms of heavy handeadness it felt far less so than the Sigur Ros in ep 1.

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Confession: I watched the first ep and was completely mystified about what ppl were talking about. I guess I don't understand racing/betting-speak , lol. But those fucking horses were beautiful, and I am so in love with Michael Mann I just watched in a happy daze. :/

Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yr not alone.

As much as I like the show, I'm really waiting for the DVD so I can watch it with subtitles and start picking up on some of the nuances in the dialogue (hopefully). This is he I watched Zdeadwood after all.

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

*Deadwood, obvs

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i find it v odd that people shout the numbers of the horse when they're watching the race, like "go 8, come on 8" etc...my dad is quite into betting and he brought me to the track tons of times as a kid, you always say the horse's name in my experience.

I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 22 February 2012 22:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can see them changing that to make it easier for the audience.

encarta it (Gukbe), Wednesday, 22 February 2012 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i figure that's why. it does stick out tho and leads me to my other complaint. i've only watched ep1 but i felt they spelled out some things like this that didn't matter that much, when other parts were way more convoluted and hard to follow, just based on cryptic rapidfire dialogue.

still v much enjoyed the start though, for a first ep that wasn't bad at all.

I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 22 February 2012 22:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's worth sticking with. Episode 4 was great.

There are a few instances where character background exposition is a little clunky, even if its delivered in Milchian dialogue. I think in regards to the pick 6 thing, the complicated nature was part of the world-building and was also not entirely significant to enjoying the race itself (they explained what they needed to happen easily enough to know who they were rooting for).

encarta it (Gukbe), Wednesday, 22 February 2012 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

plenty of people yell out the numbers, it's how you place your bet at the betting window ($5 to win on the 2, etc)

could be a difference of habits in U.S. racegoers vs European I guess

dmr, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

also kinda carries an implication that you're either A) an inexperienced bettor who plays random numbers and birthdays or B) an experienced bettor who plays every singe race every single day. either way you can't be bothered to learn all the names and just know "I've got the 4 in this one"

dmr, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 22:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

definitely would always place my bet quoting or writing the number, for sure, it's not even legal not to do so i think here.

but i guess yeah for hardcore gamblers it's not like they'd be thinking hugely of the name of the horse. though would they be saying "go 8" at all instead of just "come on" or "go" or whatever?

it just felt a bit odd to me, i've prob been to race meetings 40/50 times but not for a few years now.

the other thing is, at irish/uk meetings you have this v distinctive tannoy commentating on the race which says the horse's name constantly, i think that prompts people to respond with the horse's name as he mentions it making a move or whatever.

obv this would be weird in the show, but do us tracks have that? the nasal quality and distinctively tunnely audio is probably one of the stand-out essential things you hear at a race meeting in ireland/uk.

I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 22 February 2012 23:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

like literally the exact way the announcer says "white flag is raised... and there off" is like it's been systematically taught to each one.

I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 22 February 2012 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think they use the real Santa Anita track announcer in this show during some of the race sequences. Trevor Denman. He's an Aussie.

Not sure if that's exactly what you're talking about though.

dmr, Thursday, 23 February 2012 02:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

though would they be saying "go 8" at all instead of just "come on" or "go" or whatever?

I dunno, people yell all kindsa stuff. horse's name, the number, jockey's name, random string of profanities (if losing)

dmr, Thursday, 23 February 2012 02:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

i need subtitles for this show

was it just me or was there a snippet of the heat soundtrack used near end of first episode?

feel like there probably is a small female viewing base for this just based on subject matter

― johnny crunch, Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:36 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark

even smaller after the violent breakdown in the first ep

RudolfHitlerFtw (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 23 February 2012 06:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

i kind of want pt anderson to direct a few episodes

⚓ (gr8080), Thursday, 23 February 2012 09:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like how much the show lets/makes hoffman & farina be like legit old men

was surprised the guys tshirts were "Foray" stables, thought it was talked abt as four A & also thought theyd go for that misunderstanding joke

some of the dialogue after the dude takes the valium & his convo w/ jerry was not good

johnny crunch, Monday, 27 February 2012 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

This show is a boring waste of time.

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 27 February 2012 21:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

you're a boring waste of time, time wasting boring person

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 00:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

nb i have not watched the last episode so it could have gone to shit

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 00:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

first episode was pretty good; show is mostly people mumbling and then going to sleep

Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Caught up now. Genuinely moving episode.

Also it took place over two days. I was all 'wtf milch'.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I loved the last one, no stakes-raising, just quiet moments getting to know a bunch of the characters better. Richard Kind is killing it.

Simon H., Tuesday, 28 February 2012 05:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

SYNTAX

dmr, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

you knew that claim wasn't going to work out but I'm glad they didn't kill off the horse

dmr, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

their stable design is p sweet

dmr, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 18:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

was i just in a bad mood or was this the worst episode?

it was cool seeing the prisoners w/ horses farm though.

⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 22:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

bad mood imo

dmr, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

They've shut down production on Season 2 because a third horse died.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, they've suspended filming with horses

caek, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

right the way I understood is not filming racing scenes but can film the actors

the latest death seems like bad luck. the horse reared, flipped, and hit its head while being led by a groom. didn't happen on set but it was a horse slated to be used on set.

I don't know much about the circumstances behind the two horses that died filming season 1.

dmr, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

they should retool the show, make it about racing speedboats instead.

s.clover, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Luck, brought to you by Elmer's

buzza, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

or they could make it brechtian and just have dudes wearing horse suits running around the track.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost LOL shit

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Release from HBO:: "David Milch and Michael Mann together with HBO have decided to cease all future production on the series LUCK"

polyphonic, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 22:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

:---------------(

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 22:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

^long face

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 22:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

fuuuuuuuuuck

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 23:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Woah.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Nelly.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

The smug reaction to this on twitter is making me so furious.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 23:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is there any sense of how far they got into shooting season two?

Poor Milch.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

the thought of ~lost episodes~ is already killing me

⚓ (gr8080), Wednesday, 14 March 2012 23:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

hbo was probably willing to stick by this no matter how bad the ratings or reviews were, but when the only publicity around your show is that you're killing horses en masse... i guess this was a sad inevitability. hope milch moves onto something new and cool

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 15 March 2012 00:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

the horse racing scenes were srsly the best part of the show

⚓ (gr8080), Thursday, 15 March 2012 00:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

PETA is gonna be so smug about this

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Thursday, 15 March 2012 00:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is why we can't have nice things.

s.clover, Thursday, 15 March 2012 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Here is this show that actually treats animals as characters in its show, giving you a sense of the connection a person can have with an animal. The poetry of the little tasks that comprise working with them on a day to day basis. There was a strong undercurrent of advocacy for animal rights in the show's themes and presentation, I thought. But now it's gone, probably to be replaced with another show about sexy vampires or whatev.

polyphonic, Thursday, 15 March 2012 01:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is there any sense of how far they got into shooting season two?

two episodes in the can is what I've heard

dmr, Thursday, 15 March 2012 02:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah polyphonic, that's a seeming contradiction I've been thinking about a lot since those first two forses died. everything about this situation stnks.

Simon H., Thursday, 15 March 2012 02:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

how many horses die at santa anita every year when they're not making a tv show?

⚓ (gr8080), Thursday, 15 March 2012 02:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

glad I never got beyond the pilot. maybe milch should go and finish fucking deadwood now.

akm, Thursday, 15 March 2012 04:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

can't wait for this to live on in comic book form

if you ever leave me peggy, leave some propane at my door (zachlyon), Thursday, 15 March 2012 04:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

RIP to the three heroic horses who saved us from season 2

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 15 March 2012 04:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^FPable offensive imo

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Thursday, 15 March 2012 04:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

glad I never got beyond the pilot. maybe milch should go and finish fucking deadwood now.

― akm, Wednesday, March 14, 2012 9:08 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is never, ever going to happen, unfortunately.

Clay, Thursday, 15 March 2012 05:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

can't wait for this to live on in comic book form

― if you ever leave me peggy, leave some propane at my door (zachlyon), Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:25 AM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ pretty LOL

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 15 March 2012 05:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

I really want to know what happend to Last of the Ninth.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Thursday, 15 March 2012 05:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

how many horses die at santa anita every year when they're not making a tv show?

― ⚓ (gr8080), Thursday, 15 March 2012 02:38 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbf it's a jump course but 5 horses have died at cheltenham festival already this year (we're two days in)

caek, Thursday, 15 March 2012 10:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

what I'm wondering is how many (if any) horses died filming Seabiscuit, Secretariat, War Horse etc.

part of Seabiscuit was shot at Santa Anita

dmr, Thursday, 15 March 2012 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

thought this column on Huff Post was pretty good

How incredible, and ultimately poignant, that 'Luck' made me care about the show's animals as much as it made me care about the ragged people in that downtrodden world. ... Because Milch and fellow executive producer Michael Mann were so wonderful at making these horses come alive as individuals, it's even harder now to contemplate them dying for the sake of art, as magical as that art might be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/luck-canceled_b_1346256.html?ref=tw

dmr, Thursday, 15 March 2012 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

They should just start shooting again with exclusively CGI horses.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 15 March 2012 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

you gotta wonder how many horses have been killed on that hipster favourite "my little pony" cartoon, and nobody talks about that

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 15 March 2012 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

That was CGI iirc.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 15 March 2012 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

don't think so

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 15 March 2012 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

You just couldn't tell, the CGI was that good.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 15 March 2012 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Jone Bouman, a local representative of the AHA, on Thursday afternoon described the fatality rate on "Luck" as "unprecedented."

"In the last five years, of all the things we monitor - and that includes films, episodic television, even commercials - there was only one other horse death in the 2,000 productions we monitored, before the three on 'Luck'," Bouman said.

According to Bouman, that death occurred on the film "3:10 to Yuma." Bouman said there were no fatalities on the recent films "War Horse," "Secretariat," and "Seabiscuit."

dmr, Thursday, 15 March 2012 22:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Right, but those shoots were presumably a lot shorter, and not subject to as grueling a schedule (TV shoots tend to be a lot more hectic than film).

Simon H., Thursday, 15 March 2012 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah definitely ... 2 hour movie with some racing vs basically a 9 hour movie with a ton of racing

but still, 1 death in 2000 productions vs. 3 deaths in this one production. it looks bad.

dmr, Thursday, 15 March 2012 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

the guidelines for how much you can race the horses in a day remains the same, movies or tv

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 15 March 2012 22:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

How many of the 2000 productions actually featured horseracing, though? Surely those would be much riskier than films that happen to feature one chase sequence on horseback, or even just horses hanging out or whatever.

Simon H., Thursday, 15 March 2012 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

And also, not just the equivalent of a 9-10 hour movie, but one of those every year. If anything think it may have been naive of HBO to not expect horse fatalities.

Simon H., Thursday, 15 March 2012 23:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

i saw this real sports segment a few years back about how there was a horseracing scandal in the 70s, where there was an epidemic of leg breaks due to painkiller usage and horses being run when they shouldnt, and how some people still think thats going on but everyone in horseracing is real cagey about it and the accusations only come from people who arent active in the sport anymore

i dont know anything about racing but i always think about that when i hear about breaks and horses dying

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 15 March 2012 23:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

what was the plot point that came up in that teary nick nolte monologue about the leg breaks? that was an insurance scam or something, right?

⚓ (gr8080), Thursday, 15 March 2012 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

thats a reference to the alydar/calumet farm scandal iirc?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alydar

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 15 March 2012 23:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

ah, thanks Hungry4Ass-- that was linked upthread i guess

another question i keep meaning to ask-- why do all the Foray Stables guys live in a motel? I thought they were only going to hide out there for a day after winning big in ep1?

⚓ (gr8080), Thursday, 15 March 2012 23:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Clearly these horses should be angling for better union representation.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 15 March 2012 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2012/03/luck-angry-david-milch-brought-baseball-bat-to-edit-bay.html

"He said to John [Ortiz], who plays the other trainer on the show, ‘I’m going to go down to the editing room and I’m going to kill Michael Mann.’"

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 00:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

And also, not just the equivalent of a 9-10 hour movie, but one of those every year. If anything think it may have been naive of HBO to not expect horse fatalities.

― Simon H., Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:10 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nay, to embrace them!

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait why is it so horrible when a horse dies bc it was raced for a tv show but it's fine for them to die for sport

obv peta and them are against horse racing but there's this subtext that horses dying for "art" (w/e) is going too far, and i don't really see why the institution of horseracing itself isn't really questioned. too many jobs at stake? or does peta just go after whatever the media will latch onto?

if you ever leave me peggy, leave some propane at my door (zachlyon), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

it often is questioned! there's great anxiety inside the horseracing world about how everyone else, esp animal rights activists, will respond to horse breakdowns

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

david milch is so fucking self-important

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

peta just goes after whatever the media will latch onto.

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

self-important in the best way possible imo xpost

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think milch is just a swinging dick and so is mann, tensions are always high when a production is lagging behind

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

david milch is so fucking self-important

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:27 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so true I've always thought he was a bit of a pompous medium talent

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

smh @ Deadwood being considered the product of a "medium talent"

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's just interesting to me that three horses die and an extremely high-profile HBO show is canceled for it while it happens all the time in real life without consequence

if you ever leave me peggy, leave some propane at my door (zachlyon), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Because HBO shows are way more in the public eye than horse races prob

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Because I thought this show could have been really amazing given the time to stretch out, I agree with you. But if horses had died during the making of 2 Broke Girls, it would have been knives out from me.

Still, Real Housewives drove a dude to suicide and its still on the air.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ya but not THREE

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

is he really pompous or is that just a reaction to the mythmaking around the milchian 'genius', which he has no control of? i think he has some blowhard tendencies but isn't particularly self-important beyond holding the belief that his should be the primary creative voice on his projects - a trait he shares with any decent director

hes not a medium talent but i do think his vision would benefit from being molded or directed a bit so that he doesn't disappear up his own ass too much - which is why Luck was so promising on paper (ive only seen the first four eps)

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think his larger desires about what he wants to express can overshadow things (John from Cincinnati, for instance) but he's got a great handle on storytelling, episode structure, and character arcs.

I don't think he cares about seeming pompous though. Anyone who brings along the Kierkegaard to a seminar he's giving for a media class isn't concerned seeming pretentious. More power to him, I say.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah milch talent > milch pompousness

Simon H., Friday, 16 March 2012 04:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i think he's talented (although i thought that every other deadwood episode was a complete mess) but he is indisputably self-important

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 16 March 2012 04:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dude wants to live up to Robert Penn Warren's ambritions.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 16 March 2012 05:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Needs cartoon bat.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 16 March 2012 05:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

We Eat Horses, Don't We?

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 16 March 2012 10:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

As always, I highly recommend folks dig up that New Yorker profile of Milch. He's likely a bona fide genius (even if I think his output outside of Deadwood has been erratic). Mann's a genius, too, but he arrived at it through sheer hard work, which perhaps explains why he's been so much more successful. He's less beholden to a muse and more able to simply buckle down and do what needs to be done.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 11:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Link?

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Friday, 16 March 2012 14:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

lets get real here folks, this show was canceled because no ones watching it

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 15:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought that at first but not so sure. There's fewer people watching Enlightened and it's still on. Treme is in its third season and was drawing about the same numbers as Luck from what I've heard.

I mean I guess it was a combo of bad PR + expensive to produce + ratings not that great. But I don't really think HBO was just looking for an out here.

dmr, Friday, 16 March 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Even if not that many people watched it was still a "prestige show" and Dustin Hoffman's first ever TV gig

dmr, Friday, 16 March 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Enlightened probably doesn't cost 1/20th of what Luck does.

akm, Friday, 16 March 2012 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mann's a genius, too, but he arrived at it through sheer hard work, which perhaps explains why he's been so much more successful.

He's also terrifying, and a careerist of the first magnitude. His legend - like, say, Lynch's - eclipses his outputs.

aka vanilla bean (remy bean), Friday, 16 March 2012 16:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

and kills 1/20th of the horses

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 16:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think laura dern is going to slit a horse's throat in the season opener

akm, Friday, 16 March 2012 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

mann is a genius fuiud

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

no one suggested he wasnt?

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

yah remy did

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

if im parsing his pretend hollywood insider schtick correctly

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mann's a genius, too

oh rlly

Ali, The Insider, Collateral... jeezus, up there w/ the best of Renoir

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

shhh go watch e.t.

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Heat was at least like a nutty 3-hour condensation of these endless HBO shows you guys love

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

bob_hope_dancing.gif

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

yah remy did

― lag∞n, Friday, March 16, 2012 1:29 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if im parsing his pretend hollywood insider schtick correctly

― lag∞n, Friday, March 16, 2012 1:30 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

he said hes ALSO terrifying and etc., which means he agrees with the genius premise

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Trigger lived through Son of Paleface

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

His legend - like, say, Lynch's - eclipses his outputs

I realize josh and remy are just having a v strange convoluted conversation but still

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

the insider is better than anything spielberg has done in the last 25 years or so tbh

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

jeez war horse right up there with renoir

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dont think thats inconsistent with geniushood - mann hasnt made a Great movie in years and years - just some interesting ones

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

many of my favourite geniuses do tons of horrible shit

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

(altman, spielberg, mann, de palma...)

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

wild inconsistency is almost a defining feature of genius

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

s1ocki, we've prob been over this; I bet your films are better than the crap you like.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

weve been over this

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

slocki

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's like whatever the opposite of a backhanded compliment is :D

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

patiently waiting for you to arrange a screening for me btw!

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

morbs you realize i like probably 90% of what you like, there's just like... other stuff i like too

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dont think thats inconsistent with geniushood - mann hasnt made a Great movie in years and years - just some interesting ones

is 'heat' the Great one?

Lamp, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

morbs can't resist dead horses

polyphonic, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh shiiiiiiiiiiii

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mann has been making the same great movie in different iterations since "Thief."

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

“A director makes only one movie in his life. Then he breaks it into pieces and makes it again.” -Jean Renoir

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Here's the infamously fascinating New Yorker piece, btw:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact_singer

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

And while it's pointless to argue with Morbs ... Morbs, even you have to admire Mann's formal gifts, right? Even if you for some reason disdain his philosophical/thematic stuff? And even then, I can't believe you'd say a bad thing about "The Insider," one of the best movies of the legendary 1999 slate.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Heat and Collateral are pretty much untouchable. Basically Josh OTM. Even if there are lots of irritating bits or silly soap-ish themes or etc. there are still at least a few amazing redeeming shots and moments which are stone classic.

s.clover, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Heat is really great. I kind of think he almost gets a lifetime pass for that. But he has made some dire shit, like Last of the Mohicans.

akm, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

to be fair, consider the source material: http://etext.virginia.edu/railton/projects/rissetto/offense.html

s.clover, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Both of these guys would be satisfied being the cinematic/TV equivalent of Herman Melville, who had a career of duds but also did Moby Dick.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

and you know Bartleby and The Confidence-Man and whatever...

s.clover, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think anyone would be satisfied being the herman melville of whatever artistic field

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

god it would be amazing if "we've been over this" actually resolved conversations on ilx

some dude, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

“A director makes only one movie in his life. Then he breaks it into pieces and makes it again.” -Jean Renoir

Mann should stop after "breaks it into pieces."

Last of the Mohicans was all right. His spiffy-looking stuff since then is like liquor ads minus the content.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol

have you seen the insider tho morbs? it really is terrif.

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Luck opening credits really do look like a liquor ad, kinda turns me off the show

some dude, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

what turns me off is the way they wrap every episode shoot by slitting a horse's throat

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

u know what turns me on, bathing in horses blood tbqh

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I prefer going the Full Bathory.

"Last of the Mohicans" may be the only Mann i like exclusively for its formal "Barry Lyndon"-y elements. Also, the fact that they didn't kill people for real in the battle scenes.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Godfather could've been better if the beheaded horse had been killed specifically for the production, and footage of the slaying had been integrated into the film

some dude, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry that post was obv meant for the comedy movie poll

some dude, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

This is Luck's precedent, from Mann's side:

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

where the hell is the Miami Vice contingent?

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

sipping mojitos

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

we are fiends for mojitos

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

ya, or fiending for them

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I got a shout-out tweet from Cochi Loco after complimenting him on Luck.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

mohicans is one of mann's best movies, and better than anything he's done in the last decade

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

its not even up for discussion

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

*tries to discuss it*

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

We've been over this.

butvi wouls (Phil D.), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Just now.

butvi wouls (Phil D.), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Christ, I could not make it through that car commercial. This, on the other hand:

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Luck opening credits really do look like a liquor ad, kinda turns me off the show

― some dude, Friday, March 16, 2012 8:48 AM (2 hours ago)

otm

⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

dude is just so f'n luxurious. on the other hand we can probably blame his attention to color and tone for some of the terrible abuses of color grading in the past few years (http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html)

s.clover, Friday, 16 March 2012 21:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

what the... i dont think you can lay that at mann's feet at all!

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

to the extent that you can lay incoherent cross-cut action sequences at peckinpah's feet or clumsy use of forced perspective at wells' I mean.

s.clover, Friday, 16 March 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

mann didnt popularize 'paying attention to colors'

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don't even think Mann's pallet has been particularly teal and orange, really, unless you count the orange street lights in Collateral.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mann is all about blue.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 21:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

don't think we should go over the teal and orange thing again but I mostly blame Ridley Scott and Gladiator for it.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mostly blame people for having hearts and eyes and the ability to feel

lag∞n, Friday, 16 March 2012 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

although

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I blame Tony Scott.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 March 2012 21:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

back to Luck, the biggest loss is weekly John Ortiz.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

you should blame tony scott! ridley's always used color intelligently eg. the blue and gold contrasting in the lift scene in blade runner

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

john ortiz is a great actor. mann loves him, so i'm sure he'll turn up in whatever he does next

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't blame anyone but HBO for the opening credits, given Boardwalk Empire et al.

"marvellously inoffensive" (Eazy), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

on the flipside, GoT

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

to the extent that you can lay incoherent cross-cut action sequences at peckinpah's feet or clumsy use of forced perspective at wells' I mean.

― s.clover, Friday, March 16, 2012 5:29 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so like... not at all. gotcha.

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 16 March 2012 22:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

insider is actually one of the earlier examples of the teal-and-orange trend. watch it again. it's 75% blue.

i think mann's lost it. public enemies was just so uninspired and sloppy. miami vice was extraordinarily visually beautiful much of the time, but i didn't buy the drama for a second. but i still think it's his best film since heat, maybe.

i could live without any mann films existing except for heat. i don't think there's much in the other films that he doesn't do better in that one.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 17 March 2012 04:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dont wanna live without manhunter. or the insider. or miami vice. even public enemies had some great ideas, if it was a bit... misbegotten.

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 17 March 2012 05:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

manhunter is for the true heads

lag∞n, Saturday, 17 March 2012 05:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

what did you like about public enemas, slocki?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 17 March 2012 05:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have a lot of love for Public Enemies.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Saturday, 17 March 2012 05:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Napoleon once lost 200,000 horses. Hoffman should be allowed 3.

Cunga, Saturday, 17 March 2012 05:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah even mann will tell you public enemies was a failure - kind of an ali-esque failure in my eyes

ive said this before but i think all he does now are 'interesting failures' - and i adjusted my outlook a while back so thats all i expect from him. and i still find some value in that, maybe im being a bit of an apologist but hey.

i'll always rep for mohicans. thats just a really sick movie with some interesting shit happening in the margins

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Saturday, 17 March 2012 05:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 17 March 2012 06:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

some really embarrassing moments in it that you just have to look past

one really embarrassing moment in heat = when diane venora intones the words "you sift through the detritus"

actually that whole scene is bleh

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 17 March 2012 06:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

dead tech post-modernistic bullshit house

some really embarrassing moments in it that you just have to look past

in mohicans?

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Saturday, 17 March 2012 06:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

IIRC yes. last time i watched it all was probably 5 years ago. remember some really torrid scenes with unvarnished acting, also some awkward battle scenes.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 17 March 2012 06:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

ddl gives a spectacular physical performance but some of his line readings are kinda deadly. its always been hard for me to tell if that's just the role, though. i think those qualities mostly work in the movies favor just because its trying to be an unironic, stirring period epic - stuff like the 'i will find you' scene really works, and i think the material is one of the best possible matches for mann's humor-free sensibility. and i think he does a better job of communicating his themes in it than in a lot of his other pictures, and of getting us into his characters' heads.

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Saturday, 17 March 2012 07:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

I once saw the silent version of Last of the Mohicans and thought it was pretty cool that Mann copied almost exactly a bunch of shots from it.

ryan, Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Even Public Enemies, which is a clear example of Mann falling short of potential, has one of my favorite shots of all time, this running board cam of one of Depp's buddies dying as they escape from the prison. You just see him hanging on for dear life even as the life fades from his eyes, and they he drops off and disappears. Mann's also been really into this intimate, over the shoulder POV since he went digital and cameras got smaller.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

he's been into that since Heat - he uses those shots really well to put you 'in the moment' & i think hes better at that than any director around

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anyone else notice that nearly every one of his films has been released in a director's cut or tweak of some sort save Thief and Insider? Alternate versions of Manhunter, Mohicans, Miami Vice, Ali and even Heat exist. Only Ali may be better than the original, though.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost, Yeah, the over the shoulder stuff during the street shoot out in Heat is pretty incredible.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Even Public Enemies, which is a clear example of Mann falling short of potential, has one of my favorite shots of all time, this running board cam of one of Depp's buddies dying as they escape from the prison. You just see him hanging on for dear life even as the life fades from his eyes, and they he drops off and disappears. Mann's also been really into this intimate, over the shoulder POV since he went digital and cameras got smaller.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:13 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ya I remember this super well

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

So many problems with Ali but the opening 30 mins or wtv are incredible

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

he uses those shots really well to put you 'in the moment' & i think hes better at that than any director around

― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:15 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yah well said there's something abt the way he uses digital that evokes this vibe really intensely, feel like he understands the medium better than anyone

lag∞n, Saturday, 17 March 2012 16:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Public Enemies was an uninteresting failure.

I Fucked Up (jer.fairall), Sunday, 18 March 2012 04:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

ur an uninteresting failure

lag∞n, Sunday, 18 March 2012 04:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

o damn

A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Sunday, 18 March 2012 06:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

lots of great moments in Public Enemies, especially the death (shot on Celluloid!) and the forest shoot-out (just well done) but no, it doesn't hang together quite how it should. Looks great though. Miami Vice might be his masterpiece though.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Sunday, 18 March 2012 06:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^^^ just came to post that. great read.

dmr, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

high level milching:

I would just say that you’re coming up against certain deep, fundamental biological truths: that any living thing is subject to the laws of mortality, and that there was nothing that was done with any of these horses that was unnatural, nothing that was other than what they had evolved to do. [In claiming otherwise], there’s a kind of moral and emotional fastidiousness that is entailed, which at a certain point becomes absurd. Organic matter depends upon the appropriation and consumption of other organic matter. There are just truths that obtain whether we find them pleasant or not. The kind of flinching from any form of art or experience that PETA seems to advocate is ultimately life-hating.

lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Interesting. I like listening to these guys talk.

I could have sworn way back when that Deadwood was not cancelled, per se, but that Milch walked away. But recently it's been increasingly coming up as cancelled. What went down, exactly?

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 22:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

hbo canceled it, then reacted to the fan/media backlash by offering milch two two hour episodes to wrap things up but at that point the actors had been released from their contracts milch was working on john from cincinnati wkrp and it never happened

lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

iirc

lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

ive said this before but i think all he does now are 'interesting failures' -

Mentioned upthread re Mann, but hard to see Milch doing anything but as well, unless he makes his Moby Dick.

"Flashy...hip" (Eazy), Wednesday, 21 March 2012 22:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

hbo cancelling deadwood was just incredibly stupid on their part.

akm, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 22:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

it was a tragic is what it was!

lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 22:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

booo! booing u hbo, damn

lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 22:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

But wasn't the show sort of backed in a corner by the fact that, you know, it was based on actual people and their fates? Can't keep Hearst the local heavy when he becomes a senator. Though I guess they could have tried.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 22 March 2012 00:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think that had any effect on anything. They weren't trying to keep the show on the air forever, just finish telling their story. HBO cut them off one season short.

polyphonic, Thursday, 22 March 2012 01:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

there was gonna be a flood and a fire!

lag∞n, Thursday, 22 March 2012 01:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hearst left at the end of Season 3, though he sort of won. Season 4 would have dealt with the fallout of the elections. xposts

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Thursday, 22 March 2012 01:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sepinwall interviews Milch about the finale.

I didn't realise that Milch new the end of Deadwood was...the end. I thought that scene at the end was too perfect.

Thought Luck really found its way towards the end there. Also thought the last two eps got the Mann-style really well. I will miss it.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 26 March 2012 04:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

That episode was amazing.

polyphonic, Monday, 26 March 2012 06:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah. Bittersweet. I really liked this show a lot.

Up there I meant "knew" and not "new.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Monday, 26 March 2012 07:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

god that last episode was great-- so sad its over

"whats the story with us?"
"i suspect in the long run, we all go broke"

i want to see a "making of" that explains how the fuck they shot the racing scenes

♆ (gr8080), Sunday, 8 April 2012 08:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

HBO's cancellation of the beleagured horseracing drama "Luck" cost the network $35 million, according to an earnings report released by Time Warner Wednesday.

Time Warner, which owns the premium cable provider, said it suffered the "impairment" because of the series' cancellation in its first season following the death of three horses.

The show had already started production on its second season, and most of the costs were attached to shutting down production during that unaired season, resulting in the $35 million writedown, HBO said.

buzza, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

so that's how much a horse costs

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

they can make it back, go hard on the derby this wkend

johnny crunch, Thursday, 3 May 2012 11:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure if this is upthread, but a very sobering piece about the horse racing industry:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/30/us/breakdown-horses-series.html

polyphonic, Friday, 11 May 2012 21:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

9 months pass...

holy cow that horse run very good.

― ⚓ (gr8080), Monday, January 9, 2012 6:37 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

caek, Thursday, 21 February 2013 13:51 (1 year ago) Permalink


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