New doctor, new decade...we can finally have a new thread (ropey title subject to regeneration).
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'm looking forward to it big time.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
Matt Smith looks like The Doctor... of Anthropology. Its going to be a great series though, can't wait!
― As your Dentist I recommend smoking: (Viceroy), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
Karen Gillan tbh
― DavidM, Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
is that standard uniform?
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Not more converse ;_;
― CATBEAST 7777 (ledge), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
What shoes would you have the Doctor wear, ledge?
― I X Love (Abbott), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
He's still wearing Tennant's outfit there.
― DavidM, Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
from the waist down, anyway...
― DavidM, Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
xxp Just different ones! New dr, new shoes. Plus converse + smart troos is so noughties.
― CATBEAST 7777 (ledge), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
i figure during the first episode he will explain the TARDIS having the ability to regenerate itself...for HIGH DEF
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
think his normal footwear will be black boots xpost
― moron oil (Gukbe), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
good choice
― CATBEAST 7777 (ledge), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Richard Curtis has written an episode featuring Vincent Van Gogh "stabbing a yellow monster".
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Saturday, 2 January 2010 17:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
> 6 billion masters trying to triangulate the signal
the listen for the space station thing was terrible, right up there with Prof Farnworth's Smelloscope
― koogs, Saturday, 2 January 2010 19:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Haha, posts from one thread are starting to seep thru to the other.
"the fabric of reality is melting, again, Doctor!"
― kingfish, Saturday, 2 January 2010 20:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
Am I the only who finds Matt Smith kind of unattractive?
― Leee, Saturday, 2 January 2010 20:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
he's got kinda an ugly-hot thing going on, but better that than a teenybopper heartthrob IMO
― musically, Saturday, 2 January 2010 20:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
While those swashbuckling vampire-like thingies in the trailer look pretty cool, haven't we reached vamp saturation point? Which made me think, perhaps they're not vampires at all, but haemovores, like in Curse of Fenric? The return of Fenric? That could be interesting...
― Stew, Saturday, 2 January 2010 20:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Matt Smith is Easter Island on legs.
― sacher torte reform (suzy), Saturday, 2 January 2010 21:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
He's no McDreamy McGann, but he has a certain awkward Chess Club hotness about him.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Saturday, 2 January 2010 21:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
That pic of them running makes it look like they're late for the Riverdance.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Sunday, 3 January 2010 03:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
Spotted somewhere else, posted here:
― kingfish, Sunday, 3 January 2010 09:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
+
=
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 3 January 2010 10:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
why are time lords' hairs so oddly gelled in recent years?
did shockwaves have an intergalactic outpost on gallifrey before the fall?
― Karen Tregaskin, Sunday, 3 January 2010 12:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
They're supposed to be Silurians I believe, although they look more like Sea Devils and they even have the Sea Devils' heat ray. And yes, they are vampires (in Venice, I think).
I do like in the clip the shocked look on his face when he punches the guy. I'm just hoping the leaked audio clip from a few months ago isn't typcal of his performance.
― Never in, Kuyt (aldo), Sunday, 3 January 2010 12:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Silurians and Sea Monsters are cousins anyway so np.
― I'm into SB (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 3 January 2010 12:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
Sea Devils even, jaysus.
The one thing Moffatt has consistently done better than any Dr Who writer is tapping into things that genuinely do scare children shitless. So anything involving vampires is good with me, especially in Venice (which means vampires wearing CARNIVAL MASKS dudes).
Pretty sure this season will be better than any nu-Who series with the possible exception of the first one. More historical shit and alien planets, fewer identikit industrial spaceships please. Also, needs more MYSTERY. It'd be great if the reason the finale was a Must Watch was because something massive was going to be revealed, rather than yer usual bombastic Davies ending.
Presumably Moffatt got Davies to drop in the Weeping Angels as imprisoned Timelords bit as something he's planning on developing in some way. Wonder if he's had something like that in mind since the start - it would make sense given that they can move people around in time and feed off the energy.
Given Moffatt, IIRC, was the first dude to write Tennant's Doctor as hormonal girl-snogging drunken tit in The Girl In The Fireplace, I'd say anyone looking for Matt Smith to be an old-skool sexless Doctor will be disappointed. Also, well, River Song. Moffatt is really good at doing emo anyway.
Matt Smith is going to do a lot of gurning, isn't he? I just hope there isn't a big public backlash due to him not being Tennant that scuppers this series.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Sunday, 3 January 2010 16:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
Moffatt set this development up way earlier with Ecclescake and "The Doctor Dances". But yes I agree he will probably be better than RTD at emo/romance bits - one of my favourite "aw" parts was in Silence in the Library, at the end when Donna just misses out on meeting her virtual husband. He's good at writing these really simple but effective scenes. none of RTD's soppy soliloquys.
― Roz, Sunday, 3 January 2010 16:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Every time I watch that season trailer I get more excitable. This is gonna rock bells fuiud.
― I'm into SB (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 3 January 2010 16:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah Ecclestone's Doctor was more sheepish and embarassed geek than Tennant's full on drunken adolescent though - "Rose, I'm trying to resonate concrete" etc.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Sunday, 3 January 2010 16:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh of course, i just meant that Moffatt arguably started the whole "the Doctor isn't an asexual weirdo after all" on nu-Who.
― Roz, Sunday, 3 January 2010 17:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, the difference is that Moffatt can do emotions and characters and stuff like that and Rusty...well, y'know...a fucking lottery ticket???????
― I'm into SB (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 3 January 2010 17:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
which means vampires wearing CARNIVAL MASKS dudes
too similar to TGITF surely
just really interested to see how Moffat deals with the show outside his previous confines (writing the scary episode, not dealing with classic enemies) and how he'll do opening episodes and finales differently from RTD
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 3 January 2010 17:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
THIS IS PRETTY SHIT NEWS, TBH:
The soundtrack website Music From The Movies has a new interview with Doctor Who composer Murray Gold, in which Gold confirms that he will be staying on to compose the music for the 2010 series of Doctor Who.In the interview, Gold discusses composing and recording the scores for "The End of Time" and the other 2009 specials. He also mentions that he has already begun work on a new version of the Doctor Who theme for 2010, and that the forthcoming series will feature scripts by Mark Gatiss and Gareth Roberts.
In the interview, Gold discusses composing and recording the scores for "The End of Time" and the other 2009 specials. He also mentions that he has already begun work on a new version of the Doctor Who theme for 2010, and that the forthcoming series will feature scripts by Mark Gatiss and Gareth Roberts.
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 3 January 2010 22:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ew, yes.
― Alba, Sunday, 3 January 2010 22:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oh ffs I was sure that the terrible score for the last ep was a swan song.
― I'm into SB (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 3 January 2010 22:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I was really hoping he'd go.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Sunday, 3 January 2010 22:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
:( was also so so hopeful he wld be gone
― Audrey Wetherspoons (sic), Monday, 4 January 2010 00:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
tho just knock the score down to a quarter of the volume and it'll be okay tbh
I was vainly hoping for a score of eerie ambient electronic noises.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Monday, 4 January 2010 02:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, it's the intrusiveness which bugs me, which is surely a failing of some sound editor, rather than Gold himself. THough I, too, would love a return to Radiophonic Workshop ambient weirdo stuff.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 4 January 2010 02:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
I suppose my problem is more with the mixing than the score itself, but my feelings towards Mr Gold were not greatly improved by that Doctor Who Prom they did (christ knows why I was watching this - that time of day where sitting mindlessly in front of someone else's telly choices is about all I can manage I suppose) mentioning Murray Gold's Amazing Wonderful Doctor Who Theme Tune approx 6000 times, Ron Grainer maybe once, Delia Derbyshire 0 times
― brett favre vs bernard fevre, fite (a passing spacecadet), Monday, 4 January 2010 09:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
i reckon if they're going to rip off windowlicker so badly, they might as well hand over the score-writing duties to mr richard d james - not like he's doing anything much else at the moment except hanging round the synth shed smoking weed
that would be a welcome return to weird radiophonic noises
― Karen Tregaskin, Monday, 4 January 2010 11:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
I really don't know why Moffat would get rid of everything else from the RTD era, but decide that Murray Gold is a keeper.
think his normal footwear will be black boots
The boots are Prada.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 4 January 2010 14:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
All a bit wibbly-wobbly torchy-worchy.
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 7 January 2010 04:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
Looks like an old-school Doctor there, right enough
― stet, Thursday, 7 January 2010 04:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
A dalek turned up in "better off ted" this week.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 7 January 2010 04:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
annoying gingers complaining about doctor who complaining about not-being-ginger giving the rest of us gingers a bad name:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article6977818.ece
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, 7 January 2010 10:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Awesome choice of picture there.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 10:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:37 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
karen, i was on the fence about your whole steez, but this is the second lame anti-ginger comment in two days, so: get fucked, you highly annoying challops merchant/fake woman.
― Patriarchy Oppression Machine (history mayne), Thursday, 7 January 2010 11:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hearsay and rumours that this series will contain Winston Churchill (could be awful) and Vincent Van Gogh (could be amazing).
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 11:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://www.denofgeek.com/television/393564/doctor_who_new_series_writers_lineup.html
― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, 7 January 2010 11:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
That's a decent line-up of writers, especially given that both the Unicorn & The Wasp and School Reunion are underrated episodes.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 11:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
Set pic from the Vincent Van Gogh episode - http://imgur.com/MpnPR.jpg
There's other ones with what's supposedly the new 'bad wolf' running theme shown, too.
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 7 January 2010 11:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
Simon Nye?? o_O
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 11:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
Chibnall ;_;
― Audrey Wetherspoons (sic), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
dear mr. mayne: i AM ginger
this might be why i notice these kinds of things?
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
am i missing something here or isn't 'karen' pretty obviously masonic boom?
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
portmeirion :o
― conrad, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
“I’ve still got legs. Arms, hands, lots of fingers, eyes, hair,” said Smith, 27, after completing his regeneration from David Tennant. Checking his new look, the eleventh actor to play the Doctor continued: “I’m not a doll. I’m still not ginger.”
what the fucking fuck he said "I'm not a GIRL" not "I'm not a doll" surely
whole show is ruined otherwise
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
the comment on that geek site linked to is rather wrong though - claims that the only historical personages the dr meets are writers?
since when was queen victoria a writer?
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
chibnall is doing the two-parter? argh
― Roz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
whilst Chris Chibnall (42) will pen a two-parter.
MEH. six Moffat eps tho, cup runneth over. question is who will be the new him and upstage the head writer?
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
blueski is correct.
Ward the obvious thing you're missing is that Masonic Boom isn't ginger!
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Six episodes is pretty hefty! Rusty usually did, what, four?
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
he did 6 for s4. i guess it means Moffat will write the last 4 or 5, building up to big revelatory arc in similar way.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
No Paul Cornell :(
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:30 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
should i grow a beard?
― joe, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Get this shit off our nice Doctor Who thread, thx.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
word
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
As a ginger w/no sense of humour I might normally mind that there comment but chose to hear it as slightly funny dig at everyone (apparently every Who watcher ever except on ILX) who takes violent exception to Donna for being, ooh, a bit ginger and over 25, both pretty shocking for a woman who gets allowed to be on the telly
seriously everyone I talk to abt Doctor Who except on here moans endlessly about her being the worst companion ever, which is just a bit silly if you look at the competition, even the nu-Who competition
(xposts) Hm, I was scanning for Cornell too. It says "returnees include" so I don't know if it's completely ruled out or not.
Don't know whether to be excited or worried about new Weeping Angels, since I loved Blink but thought it was very neat as a one-off.
― ⍨ (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
question is who will be the new him and upstage the head writer?
I'm guessing that would be Paul Cornell, but is he actually writing any?
I thought 42 was an okay, certainly non-terrible episode.
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
Just checked, Rusty wrote five episodes for each of his series.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
don't know if this was addressed on the last thread or not as i walked in just as it was ending but donna is probably my favourite of the companions so far in nu-who not least for being a bit smarter, older, less in thrall to the doctor than rose or martha
didn't expect that at all as i don't rate catherine tate as an actor or a comedian
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
I second that post.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
Conrad: The "Portmeirion" sign should be ignored. It's just a point of sale banner for Portmeirion pottery in the window of the shop at Cardiff Millennium Centre (for that's where that particular scene was filmed). The rest of said episode was filmed in Croatia.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
But on topic, fuck a Crayons Chibnall two parter :(
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
:o
― conrad, Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
the planet Croatia i hope
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 12:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
The other thing to remember is that Rusty rewrote or got people to revise scripts to fit his view of how the series should be and presumably Moffatt will do the same. So a Chibnall script for Moffatt could end up quite different to a Chibnall script for Davies.
Looking forward to the Gatiss one, given that Rusty apparently trashed his original script for The Unquiet Dead and made him take out a lot of the darker bits.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
there's still strong anti-donna sentiment out there? i knew there was circa "Runaway Bride" but i thought people had gotten over it during S4. anyway i loved her and apparently i've self-selected places on the internet to go where everyone else loves her too.
― Euclidian pizza mathematics (reddening), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
does this also mean that moffat written script w/o rusty looking over his shoulder could be different from the moffat we've grown to expect?
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
Rusty said he didn't change Moffatt's scripts at all, so maybe not.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
half-serious point but presumably now there will be fewer gay references? the occasional background character notwithstanding. i just can't imagine anyone consciously inserting gayness into proceedings with half as much vigour as Rusty.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
"inserting", "vigour"
― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
ITS LIKE I'M HIM
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
If only Frankie Howerd had ever been offered the Doctor Who gig.
― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Worth bearing in mind Moffatt wrote the series' first gay ref in The Empty Child and also pretty much outed the Master in that mini Davison ep. So you never know… Plus Moffatt loves to troll the stuffier fans so I wouldn't put it past him to try and outdo Rusty for the lulz.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
i think Moffat just writes better and more subtle innuendos generally tbh
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
I know :(
At least it isn't Helen Raynor. That's the only way it could be worse.
― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
Example of said trolling - the series 5 trailer. He punches someone! He kisses a girl! He fires a gun! SM must have known how those three things would piss off a certain type.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
yes, it was all to empthasise how this Doctor was different (apart from the kissing girls thing).
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
I had to look up the name of the dude who wrote "Fear Her", he'd be worse.
― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
i think Moffat just writes better and more subtle innuendos generally tbh― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, January 7, 2010 1:18 PM (1 minute ago)
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, January 7, 2010 1:18 PM (1 minute ago)
Fair point.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
From the clip it looks like a girl kisses him and he's all like omg a gurl. xps
― DavidM, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
I had to look up the name of the dude who wrote "Fear Her", he'd be worse.― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Thursday, January 7, 2010 1:21 PM (11 seconds ago)
― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Thursday, January 7, 2010 1:21 PM (11 seconds ago)
Matthew Graham, creator and writer of Life On Mars. Lousy episode, not helped by how he totally misjudged the tone of the show (and like Moffatt, Chibnall and Greenhorn had a "no rewrites by RTD" clause in his contract). Also, poor casting and Euros Lyn's "LETS DUTCH TILT EVERY SHOT" style made a 50p episode look even cheaper :(
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
It was like Brookside as filmed by the putz who did Battlefield Earth :(
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
i did like the big scribbly ball in Fear Her, but so much potential missed in that ep
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
The TARDIS gag at the beginning was cute too.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Still want them to bring Ben Aaronovitch back into the fold. Will never happen, though ;(
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
Bit of a pity the Gaiman rumours didn't come to pass.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'd love someone to get Alan Moore to write one, but I imagine that'd be nigh-on impossible.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
I reckon the Gaiman script will turn up for S6. They always overcommission and Gaimans got form for being late with TV scripts, or so I've heard.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
Didn't AM nearly write for McCoy? Something like that anyway.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 13:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
My guess is that the gun Matt Smith fires is a starter pistol rather than an actual gun.
I just watched Blink again and the Doctor says the Weeping Angels were "quite nice where they came from".
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 14:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah starter pistol is pretty obvious but it still had loads of idjuts protesting
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 14:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
He's not pulling a "I am shooting a starting pistol" face there.
― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 January 2010 14:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
my God, Ben Aaronovitch would be fucking fantastic
big cheers for seeing Gatiss and Roberts, two of the more underrated authors from the Virgin book era
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 14:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think he's doing the live action Blake's 7 for Sky at the moment, though.
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 7 January 2010 15:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
O_O
okay gotta see that, that's like a completely perfect pairing of sensibilities right there
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 15:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Look - it's a ginger Matt Smith:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/07/ginger-fringe-doctor-who
― Alba, Thursday, 7 January 2010 15:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
wow, ginger Matt Smith looks like an anemic serial killer
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 15:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
too la roux
but if the Master could die his hair i don't see why the Doctor can't
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 15:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Doctor will never dye.
― Alba, Thursday, 7 January 2010 15:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Idiot's Lantern was pretty terrible, though.
― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, 7 January 2010 16:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
MILD SPOILER: isn't Gatiss writing the Churchill/Daleks one?
i do still want Moffat to write a Dalek story at some point. would be happy for Julian Bleach as Davros to return because he was so good last time but trying to make an interesting compelling story with them probably the biggest challenge. with The Master presumably ruled out for a while, i'd be surprised if the finale wasn't based around Davros. but would be brave and probably better to base the final NOT around classic enemies for the first time. don't really care about the Cybermen now.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 16:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
xp: Oh yeah, that one. I try to pretend that episode doesn't exist (in fact, I still haven't seen several S2 episodes because "The Idiot Lantern" has made me so gunshy).
The good S2 eps are very good (the ending story is fantastic, plus "The Girl in the Fireplace" and Moffat's Doctorless episode) but it also easily has the worst nu-Who episodes in it; IMO nothing in seasons 1, 3 or 4 comes anywhere near the awfulness of "The Idiot Lantern".
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 16:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah i agree, altho The Doctor's Daughter comes very close
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 16:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
i cut it some slack for actually bothering to be set on an alien planet
IMO nothing in seasons 1, 3 or 4 comes anywhere near the awfulness of "The Idiot Lantern".
The Idiot's Lantern and Fear Her are my two least favorite episodes, but the Daleks in Manhattan episodes run a close third.
― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, 7 January 2010 18:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Daleks In Manhattan one isn't that bad as a whole but wow Tellulah is terrible in isolation.
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 18:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
Moffat's Doctorless episode
I assume you're referring to Love & Monsters, which was written by RTD.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
oops
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
That seems to be one that most people online hate, but I enjoy it.
― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was the episode that convinced me to actually watch season 2; I'd missed a bunch of episodes and came in on "The Idiot Lantern" which, well... I had decided I was done with the show until they got rid of Tennant basically, up until I wandered across "Love and Monsters" and "The Girl in the Fireplace".
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
I like Love and Monsters too.
Actual good RTD episodes:The End of the WorldL&MMidnightTurn Left
Smith & Jones and Gridlock are alright.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oh, and all the series finales have a fair bit to enjoy, but they get progressively worse.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Turn Left" cheats a little bit by relying so heavily on continuity set up in other stories but the execution is so great that it doesn't matter.
"Midnight" is the one where they're trapped on the bus, right? That was fucking excellent.
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, that's the one. Best episode of S4.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Thursday, 7 January 2010 19:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
i couldn't stand midnight it was so boring. nothing happened. no monsters no plot no special effects and a painted in background that a cybermat would have sneered at as cheap. no thank you. it was conceptually even more naff than 'fear her' though actually 'fear her' wasn't conceptually naff so much as poorly executed. in the hands of a better writer it would have been less schmaltzy and no olympics
but i didn't mind love & monsters and i liked turn left alot. cheaply done but effective what-if-ing & a good set up for a big she-bang double parter
mind you my fave of s4 was silence in the library. that's moffat at his creepy best
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, 7 January 2010 20:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
Silence In The Library was great up until the super schmaltzy ending of part two. Love love love the opening 10 or somins of part 1, such a great bit of world building with a nice bit of WTF built in. Also some genuinely creepy moments ("Ice Cream"/ Miss Evangelista's face reveal). Bit of a shame how obvious the "saved" angle was though.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Thursday, 7 January 2010 21:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
I was kind of surprised by how much I liked "The Waters of Mars" after seeing some of the negative commentary here.
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 22:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Parting Of The Ways is still my favourite RTD one - the Rose Time Vortex thing never bothered me. Other good RTD eps tend to be so because the character performances are particularly great e.g. Jacobi in Utopia and under-rated Corduri in under-rated Army Of Ghosts/Doomsday.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 7 January 2010 22:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
just re-watched time crash after the 'master outing' comments here and i had to watch it twice before i caught it
can't believe i missed that before so thanks for the lol
― Karen Tregaskin, Thursday, 7 January 2010 22:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah the two-parter at the end of S1 is great but I agree they get progressively worse. Midnight is really great (daaaaark) and it's always good to see Tennant's Doctor lose control but I think Turn Left is the best Rusty episode by some distance. He's a lot better when he's working on a smaller scale.
That said, Gridlock is rubbish. The Doctor and Martha get stuck in a traffic jam. Amazing.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 January 2010 23:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Gridlock" was great! The Doctor and Martha carhopping over hungry Macra!
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Thursday, 7 January 2010 23:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
his last one he wrote and directed and it was delivered well in advance - before that it's been 15 years since he did one, and lateness wasn't any of the top nine problems with that production
never heard anything like this, but Moore did write some strips for the T. Baker era DWM.
― Audrey Wetherspoons (sic), Thursday, 7 January 2010 23:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Doctor and Martha get stuck in a traffic jam. Amazing.
But it's a traffic jam enveloping an entire world! That's a cool set-up for me, with shades of Ballard/early 2000AD.
― Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Friday, 8 January 2010 00:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
Gridlock may well be my favourite RTD ep. Adore it.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Friday, 8 January 2010 06:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I liked Gridlock. Had plenty of neat ideas in it, which is all I'm looking for in an hour-long bit of entertainment.
― kingfish, Friday, 8 January 2010 07:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
A delayed Christmas present my friends gave me tonight:
― kingfish, Friday, 8 January 2010 08:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
Gridlock is so fucking corny. Better on rewatch tho.
― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 8 January 2010 12:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
Quickly going back to the Alan Moore thing: apparently it only got as far as the BBC asking him if he'd be interested in writing a 25th anniversary episode and Moore politely declining.
I forget where I read about this but it's probably in one of those birthday/tribute books that came out for Moore's 50th a few years back.
― Joe Tackleberry (Some guy from Goole), Friday, 8 January 2010 12:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/news/a194577/matt-smith-my-doctor-is-less-tolerant.html
― DavidM, Friday, 8 January 2010 13:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
I wonder if he means he'll be a cranky Doctor or an angry vengeful Doctor?
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Friday, 8 January 2010 13:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
racist doctor
― CATBEAST 7777 (ledge), Friday, 8 January 2010 13:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Homophobic agendar.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Friday, 8 January 2010 14:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
The would be really awful politically but kind of fascinating from a storytelling point of view; what happens when the person responsible for saving the world turns out to be a racist, homophobic dick? (most likely ans: ppl stop watching)
There are a few shades of Colin Baker there which, you know, could be a little dangerous.
― ah ah oh ooh ooh oh ah ah ah ah ah oh ah ah aha ooh (HI DERE), Friday, 8 January 2010 14:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
Teabag party doctor
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 8 January 2010 14:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hopefully he just means less of a whiny hippy than Tennant's Doctor.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Friday, 8 January 2010 14:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
The episode where the Doctor romances Sarah Palin is supposed to be good.
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 8 January 2010 14:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
"you can put lipstick on a Sontaran..."
― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 8 January 2010 14:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2010/01/writers-tale-final-chapter-preview.html
Matt Smith looks totally high in this picture. I approve.
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 8 January 2010 15:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy really looking like a young Donna here
― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 8 January 2010 15:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
in other news, Sally Sparrow is up for a BAFTAhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/jan/08/an-education-leads-bafta-longlists
― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 8 January 2010 16:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
Would love it if this ends up with Tennant and RTD reuniting for Fox's Dr Who, US-style
― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 20:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'd be cool with Torchwood if it's within the existing canon - the Adventures of Captain Jack in America kind of thing. As for Doctor Who itself, hands off yanks.
― BTW, I'm frightfully middle-class (chap), Tuesday, 19 January 2010 20:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
I would only support an American iteration of Doctor Who if they did it as "Fringe" crossed with "Chuck".
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Tuesday, 19 January 2010 20:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Torchwood is goofy enough that I could see it working as a Fox show. But a US version of Doctor Who would make me stabby.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 January 2010 20:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
"U.N.I.T's on the way, Jack"
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
haha wait
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Tuesday, 19 January 2010 21:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
I reckon the Gaiman script will turn up for S6.
^^^good call. EXCLUSIVE Neil Gaiman Confirms Doctor Who Episode
― Roz, Sunday, 7 February 2010 14:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
THIS IS SO WRONG
http://www.tonnerdoll.com/doctorwho.htm
The DT doll looks like a lesbian cockatoo.
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 12 February 2010 21:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Martha doll looks like a man
― your extra awesome blossom (HI DERE), Friday, 12 February 2010 21:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Torchwood dolls are lolarious as well.
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 12 February 2010 21:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article7026314.ece
February 14, 2010Doctor Who in war with Planet Maggie
Sylvester McCoy, the actor who played Doctor Who for two years in the 1980s, has revealed that left-wing scriptwriters hired by the BBC wrote propaganda into the plots in an attempt to undermine Margaret Thatcher’s premiership.
His revelation will reinforce suspicions about antipathy within the corporation to Thatcher’s government. Norman Tebbit, then the Tory party chairman, claimed at the time that the BBC was in the hands of a “Marxist mafia”...
They point to "The Happiness Patrol" as an explicit example
― Sex Sexual (kingfish), Sunday, 14 February 2010 05:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
Think they confused Thatcher with Bertie Bassett tbh.
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 14 February 2010 08:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Always thought it was common knowledge that "The Happiness Patrol" contained digs at Thatcher, no?
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Sunday, 14 February 2010 16:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Nicole, that David Tennant doll looks like Jude Law.
― Dark Notion (Abbott), Sunday, 14 February 2010 20:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yes, like a lesbian cockatoo.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 15 February 2010 00:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
"PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, EXPRESS THEM"
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 15 February 2010 10:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
So... new promo pic...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/2856584/Doctor-Whos-new-series-picture-promo.html
It kind of reminds me of this..
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 12:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
Larger version...
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 12:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
(New trailer to be released this Saturday, too - looking at an early-April start)
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 12:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
she's kind of gorgeous
― sheryl crow but with a very long butt (HI DERE), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 14:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
That picture is insane.
― ô_o (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 14:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
That poster's a bit Harry Potter isn't it?
Amy Pond is way hot.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 15:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
...tasty
― Nhex, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 16:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 21 February 2010 16:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
well, I'm excited. Sea Devils, Daleks and the Angels from blink.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 21 February 2010 16:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
The new trailer did have an air of "Come to Thorpe Park, it's magical" about it though. That said, I'm loving Matt's general "Trougton-ness" and am qute taken by Amy's accent. Roll on the non specific start date of "Easter 2010 or summink".
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Sunday, 21 February 2010 17:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
far right, in the bubble?
― fndgo, Sunday, 21 February 2010 18:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
feel like this trailer should've come before the original one which showed us loads of new stuff.
can't work out what the Dalek is saying at all.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 21 February 2010 18:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
"State your identity", apparently.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Sunday, 21 February 2010 18:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
Easter Saturday start date, I'm hearing
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Sunday, 21 February 2010 18:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Would make sense.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Sunday, 21 February 2010 19:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
Did anyone else think that in the YT thumbnail, that was Tennant on the left and Matt Smith on the right?
― A Mermaid... Doing It With Captain Morgan (Leee), Sunday, 21 February 2010 20:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
No, but I see it now.
Don't mind if the swirly blue stuff is the new time vortex / title sequence but no Smith + companion floating around in it Matrix-style, please.
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 21 February 2010 20:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
and the Angels from blink
actually really hoping they are literally the same angels from Blink because the original implication was that ANY kind of statue could be one of them but the hint in the Tennant finale was that they all take this weeping angel form. i just liked the idea that they could also be gargoyles, dragons, lions or whatever.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 21 February 2010 21:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 23:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
qute taken by Amy's accent
Can't tell from that if she's got her full-on proper Inverness accent, but I really hope she does. I think, from the way she says "flickering", that she does. Am very much looking forward to the idea of my accent on the telly.
― ailsa, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 23:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://gizmodo.com/5478205/synthesizer-used-to-create-doctor-who-theme-tune-being-flogged-on-ebay
nice descriptive url. it's an ems vcs3.
― koogs, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 10:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
although, as someone points out, vcs3 = late 60s, who theme = early 60s
― koogs, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 10:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
although although there is a Delaware version from 1972 or so that was never used. but i think a delaware is the big brother of a vcs3. yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMS_Synthi_100
― koogs, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 10:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Whoa. Nice.
(Gizmodo does imply it was the original theme, but the actual ebay item description is very careful to point out that it was used by John Baker on an early 70s version of the theme. A few people seem to have queried this with the seller on the grounds that John Baker was never credited with doing the theme, but seeing as Delia Derbyshire was never listed on the credits either, uh...)
― falling while carrying an owl (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 11:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Interesting that it supposedly belonged to John Baker, who as far as I can remember doesn't even have playng credits on any of it (even Delaware was Paddy Kinsland and Brian Hodgson). He did a lot in incidental work on the show, but that's not exactoly the same thing. xpost
― Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 11:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
I don't know enough old Doctor Who to know what dvd is being complained about. Still funny, though.
― ô_o (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 20:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Caves-Androzani-DVD/dp/B00005B2T7
― koogs, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 22:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Good thing she didn't look at the back of the Vengeance on Varios DVD box.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 25 February 2010 00:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oops, Varos I mean of course.
Except, of course, it's the Region 2 box in the joke which is unlikely to be up for rental in Canada...
http://www.amazon.ca/Doctor-Who-Caves-Androzani-Story/dp/B00005Y6XH
― Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Thursday, 25 February 2010 10:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Saturday, 6 March 2010 13:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://www.isitmofftiemnao.com/
three weeks
― Sex Sexual (kingfish), Thursday, 11 March 2010 07:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 21 March 2010 11:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
My dreams of a Dalekless season have been dashed
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 00:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Sad, but I think they're contractually committed to the Daleks appearing every season--when they resurrected the show in 2005, for a long time Terry Nation's estate was against the Daleks being in it. When they finally agreed, they made the BBC commit to including them every season (thus upping the income from Dalek-related collectibles to the Nation estate).
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 01:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Dalek hating is challoping of the highest order, they're brilliant if they're written well. Trouble is that since the Ecclestone series they haven't been.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 09:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also it looks like it's Daleks in the Blitz which could be tremendous.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 09:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
new holy grail: good Dalek story NOT set on Earth and written by Moffat
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 11:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 11:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
they're contractually committed to the Daleks appearing every season
Ah ok. I have no particular Dalek hate, it's just that the contortions they have to go through to get them to show up, especially after establishing that they were all gone, become less and less compelling. Really I just want them to pop up once in a while, rather than their appearances be routine. The nadir was that two-parter in the 30s with that hybrid and the pig-people.
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
would have been easier to have serial villains without rtd's incessant madcap "end of the daleks! the world! the universe! time itself! stake-raising.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah I REALLY hope Moffatt has the good sense to avoid that shit.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
I have no particular Dalek hate, it's just that the contortions they have to go through to get them to show up, especially after establishing that they were all gone, become less and less compelling. Really I just want them to pop up once in a while, rather than their appearances be routine.
I agree -- it's not that I hate them, it's just that they're overused and haven't had a decent storyline since Ecclestone.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
season 2 Dalek vs Cybermen fight was pretty good, I thought
― ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
It seems like Moffat's a lot more interested in "small" i.e. specific stories, which will be great if it continues..
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I know the universe is always at stake in Who but I got so tired of RTD's MORE HUGER EVERYTHING MASSIVE BIG HUGELARGE
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Me too.
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
I hope they do something more like "The Pyramids of Mars", where Sarah Jane argues that they can ignore Sutekh because clearly he didn't wipe out the world because she was still around, and the Doctor took her back to her time and showed her the Earth as a desolate desert and said "o rly"
― ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was one of the best things for me about Blink - because it actually did something with the idea of TIME TRAVEL, eg effects before causes, meeting before you know someone, etc etc.
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
also it was pretty tense bordering on terrifying, particularly for this series
― ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
Guardian interview, not giving much awayhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/mar/22/stephen-moffat-doctor-who
confirmed episode titlesThe Eleventh HourThe Beast BelowVictory of the DaleksThe Time of Angels/Flesh and StoneVampires in VeniceTBATBA/TBAVincent and the DoctorTBATBA/TBA
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone
More Blink! Awesome!
― NotEnough, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 18:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
No Sally Sparrow = no cred
― Duke Newsom (DavidM), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 19:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
Somehow I think Carey Mulligan would rather be making Hollywood films than starring in episodes of Doctor Who.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 19:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
no should would totally rather do Doctor Who
btw is UK L&O any good?
― ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 19:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
Not really. It's not terrible.
― ailsa, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 19:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I know the universe is always at stake in Who
this is rubbish, it's usually Local Politics On A Wee Planet or, for Pertwee, The Special School's Bus Of Aliens Are Attacking Slowly
― one of the jones boys (sic), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 22:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
for Pertwee, The Special School's Bus Of Aliens Are Attacking Slowly
For some reason, these are my favorites.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 22:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
Sad, but I think they're contractually committed to the Daleks appearing every season
This was also the reason we all knew Davros was coming back as well.
I might have said this, and worse in previous years.
I have been avoiding posting here because of spoilers, btw. An awful, awful lot is out there about the series.
― Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 23:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
By which I mean I know a lot, and know you don't want to, so haven't risked exposing you to it.
― Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 23:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was one of the best things for me about Blink - because it actually did something with the idea of TIME TRAVEL
The Girl In The Fireplace did this as well. This could hopefully become a Moffatt thing. He plays a lot with the form of an episode in general - Silence In The Library had the world inside the computer programme, etc.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 23:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
And Silence In The Library also played with time travel too, with River Song knowing the Doctor from the future, and all that jazz.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 23:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I'm really, really trying to lower my expectations knowing that Moffatt actually has at least one entire season to play with these ideas (probably even longer) rather than just a single story. At the very least I hope we'll get better built season-long arcs than Bad Wolf.
Thanks for not spoiling btw - I do appreciate the attempt, especially knowing that the story and casting info for Who always seems to leak out really early, I don't know much about the upcoming season aside from a few hints that some elements of previous Moffatt stories will return.
― Nhex, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 23:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
By Ann WiddecombeDr Who has changed again and so has his assistant. Even the Tardis has acquired bells and whistles. What next? K9 metamorphosed into a cat?I wish them every success in whatever worlds they travel but I have seen each Doctor and none has done it quite like Patrick Troughton did it. He was a memorable Saint Paul as well and a convincing schoolmaster in Dr Finlay’s Casebook.
Dr Who has changed again and so has his assistant. Even the Tardis has acquired bells and whistles. What next? K9 metamorphosed into a cat?
I wish them every success in whatever worlds they travel but I have seen each Doctor and none has done it quite like Patrick Troughton did it.
He was a memorable Saint Paul as well and a convincing schoolmaster in Dr Finlay’s Casebook.
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
Forgot to mention I saw him in a pub about a month ago
― The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
Egged him on did you? Plied him with drinks?
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 25 March 2010 12:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
He looked a bit unsteady on his feet. Not the drink, I think his health's not great.
― The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 March 2010 12:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
Is this why Widdecome has been rocking the troughton Doctor's hair do wig all these years?
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 25 March 2010 13:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
hi dere new website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 March 2010 15:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
Steven Moffat, speaking in 1995, on Doctor Who.
" …when I look back at Doctor Who now. I laugh at it, fondly. As a television professional, I think how did these guys get a paycheck every week? Dear god, it's bad! Nothing I've seen of the black and white stuff - with the exception of the pilot, the first episode - should have got out of the building. They should have been clubbing those guys to death! You've got an old guy in the lead who can't remember his lines; you've got Patrick Troughton, who was a good actor, but his companions - how did they get their Equity card? Explain that! They're unimaginably bad. Once you get to the colour stuff some of it's watchable, but it's laughable."
He likes Davison though. But that's about it.
http://nzdwfc.tetrap.com/archive/tsv43/onediscussion.html
― Duke Newsom (DavidM), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 16:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
He's OTM though. Most of the first Hartnell season and the first Baker season, ie the bits I've watched all the way through, are largely terrible. Not because of the lack of bells and whistles or effects or whatever the fuck it is Rusty thinks he brought to the table, the plots just aren't very interesting and there's no tension and the ending to almost every story is awful. I'm including Genesis of the Daleks in this.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
My nephew has seen Saturday's episode, the lucky wee sod. I'm not asking him what he thought, because he doesn't understand the concept of not blabbing everything and is too young to give subtle hints, so I'm just not going to talk to him until Sunday.
― ailsa, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 17:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
aww, I just watched Genesis and was pretty entertained. admittedly my standards for old Who are probably lower than I had even for most cartoons I watched during the 80s and 90s
― Nhex, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 19:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
My nephew has seen Saturday's episode, the lucky wee sod.
Someone in my office saw it in London a month or two ago but wouldn't tell us anything.
― one of the jones boys (sic), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 22:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
They did a thing up in Inverness for it, and because my nephew is in school with Karen Gillan's niece, his class got to go.
I am very much not stoked for the new series. Matt Smith is, let's face it, not David Tennant. In any way. I keep telling myself "b-b-but Steven Moffat", but it's not working. I may well not feel like this on Saturday night, I know.
― ailsa, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 22:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
Matt Smith is, let's face it, not David Tennant.
Bit early to judge that isn't it? He might be better. Weren't you the one going "I want Ecclestone back" for a series or so?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 22:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, but I am fickle. Hence disclaimer of probable reversal after an hour of watching him. I am basing this entirely on him being a boring bastard on Jonathan Ross the other night, btw.
I am excited about an Inverness accent on prime time telly though.
― ailsa, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 22:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also, I liked David Tennant plenty pre-Who, but didn't like him in the role. I just mean it's been a long time since there was a proper series. DT would give good press and get people (well, me) stoked. MS, well, doesn't.
― ailsa, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 22:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
long time - just over a year. I am so nu-Who boring popular culture kid it's actually embarrassing me reading back my own posts.
― ailsa, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 22:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
my girlfriend refuses to watch this w/o tennant
― Jack traded Milky-White to the troll for a magical (remy bean), Thursday, 1 April 2010 00:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
I feel Matt Smith may have residual cooties left over from his school days.
― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, 1 April 2010 00:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
He caught them from childhood acquaintance Dom Passantino.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Thursday, 1 April 2010 01:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
Never thought I could get into post-Dom ILX but here I am. Doesn't bode well for Smithy, does it.
― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Thursday, 1 April 2010 01:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think I would refuse to watch this series if it was another with Tennant.
― Duke Newsom (DavidM), Thursday, 1 April 2010 06:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
Doesn't bode well for Smithy, does it.
Oh thanks, you've just made me think of James Corden. In fact, he's in one, isn't he?
― ailsa, Thursday, 1 April 2010 07:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
It probably took me a season and change for me to get used to Tennant, and I'm still not sure that I prefer him over Eccleston.
― Nhex, Thursday, 1 April 2010 07:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Saturday, 3 April 2010 12:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
GMTV's top 10 companions list is some bullshit, but KG is... nice. Despite her awful posture.
― Duke Newsom (DavidM), Saturday, 3 April 2010 16:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy Pond, River Song, looks like Moffatt is gonna be working his Finnegans Wake this series.
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 16:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Amazing, interesting face."
PS I would call her posture "sassy" or "coy."
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Saturday, 3 April 2010 17:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
awww Lil Ailsa saying her prayers.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 3 April 2010 17:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was medium awesome
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 18:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Wish he'd taken the 8 yr old version with him, she'd have been a fantastic companion.
Though to be fair I wouldn't have really really fancied her the way I do with the one he did take. Er, obviously.
― JimD, Saturday, 3 April 2010 18:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
He's playing it a bit close to tennant though, so far.
BEST DOCTOR EVER (just countering all the moaners)
the bit where the camera revealed the door had opened was classic Moffat, kinda wish they had stuck to keeping it on that smaller ghost story level instead of extending the threat to the whole planet. interesting that we never actually saw Amy's Aunt. was there one arc meme dropped ("silence will fall") or two (something about "Pandorum"?)? not enough sarcastic Olivia Coleman despite the extra episode length. but totally good enough.
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 3 April 2010 19:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
Already said BEST DOCTOR EVER to the fam. I think the silence and the Pandoracle(?) were connected.
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 19:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
i forgot when it was happening so only joined it at the what-do-tiggers-like-best bit (although: 'you're scottish, aren't you? fry something!' heeeeeee) but oh oh that was so fun!
― drama queen woman candidate (c sharp major), Saturday, 3 April 2010 19:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
new graphics: goodnew music: terrible, shocker (altho i do appreciate the attempt to re-introduce some synthetic sounds, a bit)
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
WILD SPECULATION: Amy's aunt is River Song. They've both got red hair, River could have been off adventuring in time and space instead of looking after Amy the night Amy met the Doctor, er River / Pond... *shuffles feet*
WILDER SPECULATION: Amy is the young River! OMGWTFBBQ etc
Anyway, I really enjoyed that, although Smith does seem to be playing a bit Tennant so far. Hopefully he'll do more to put his own stamp on the role. The Who Bingo cards upthread were disappointingly OTM in several places :(
― mister_thoth, Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
Have considered the possibility that Amy will somehow become River at some point, yeah. But iirc Alex Kingston shd be on dis ting at some point during the series??
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
Considering Moffat's love of the wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff I could see River and Amy being on screen together. Possibly without Amy (or the audience) realising River is her future self for maximum poignancy further down the line.
Does seem a bit predictable for Moffat's style, though...
― mister_thoth, Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Gotta say that if that rottweiler had spoken it would've pushed this episode even higher up the auspicious beginnings chart
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ha, the same thought occurred to me. I'll give S-Moff the benefit of the doubt and assume the budget didn't stretch to it.
― mister_thoth, Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
I already regret "S-Moff", tbh.
also he wd probably have permanently scarred many, many children
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
More than this atrocity did?
Shirley not!
― mister_thoth, Saturday, 3 April 2010 20:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
ok amy growing up into river song would be an absolute fucking travesty? i mean not only for the sheer laziness - like the whole 'sally sparrow for new companion!!' tedium, why is it any time there's a charming female character dudes are like 'let's stop at this one'? But also, I can't put this all that clearly, but there is something fundamentally awesome in "girl has an imaginary friend at seven, and then he turns out to be real and they go on adventures" which would be smothered by "oh and she becomes his most trusted boon companion 51st century kickass archaeologist river song".
― drama queen woman candidate (c sharp major), Saturday, 3 April 2010 21:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hey, I did say it was wild speculation - and predictable. Moffat's a much smarter writer than that.
I like the setup for Amy's relationship with the Doctor a lot, even if it does have a bit of a hint of "The Girl In The Fireplace" about it. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Moffat does with this series.
― mister_thoth, Saturday, 3 April 2010 21:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
There was some quite "Girl in the Fireplace"-y music playing during the slow reveal of the house after his first "brb" moment
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 21:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh no that probably means there's a whole bunch of nobs "predicting" that Amy is also Madame Pompadour then...
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 3 April 2010 21:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Like it. Like him - less in your face, less gurning. Like the time afforded for calm sections - the freneticism of RTD/David Tennant got wearing on the nerves. Like the fairy tale element. Like what perhaps were little references to the previous reign? (DT being made to have an English accent/Amelia Pond goes from English to Scottish + instead of the RTD tv news channels across the world thing, just tuning the radio).
Liked the early childhood scenes.
Music was terrible.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 3 April 2010 21:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
deliberately rendering the screwdriver and the TARDIS useless was the biggest nod to the previous regime I think
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 21:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
new Tardis possibly a wee bit Steampunk for my liking
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 21:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yep, good point about the screwdriver and tardis, it was good that bit. And less needless sudden grinning as well, that used to drive me spare about both Ecclestone and Tennant.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 3 April 2010 22:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Wee! Loved! Enjoyed the 'corner of your eye' stuff...Moff's so good with the stuff-of-nightmares stuff. And the build up to fish custard was lovely. And Amelia Pond has a nice edge to her as well as being incredibly gorgeous. Got a faint hint of Donna shoutiness in her, which I hope comes out a bit more.
But all round exciting good fun. Ripping stuff!
― VegemiteGrrrl, Saturday, 3 April 2010 22:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
OMG how wrong was I? <3 Matt Smith already. Slightly driven to distraction by Amy's accent (which, as someone who left Inverness and only goes back into full-on accent in the presence of other Invernessians, is a rubbish and massively hypocritical criticism), but otherwise, great.
Yes, that was remarked upon here. How the hell do you know what I looked like when I was that age?
"You're Scottish - fry stuff" = top lolz.
Alex Kingston was in the "coming soon" trailer, btw. As was James Corden, Bill Nighy and Meera Syal, who are evidently less spoilertastic.
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
I dunno, James Corden spoiled it for me
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
lol
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
I suspect any Tennantisms in Matt Smith are down to - or could be plausibly attributed to - the Doctor being in a transitional phase. I think there was enough evidence that he will become less Tennanty as the series progresses.
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
Tell you what I really loved: no big regen crisis! (aside from a bit of a bellyache). First new doctor story we've had without some "he's amnesiac/asleep/insane/whatever" since...tom baker?
― JimD, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I liked that too (though the pre-credits OMG-I-can't-control-the-TARDIS bit gave me the fear, thankfully wrongly).
New title sequence was horrible, btw.
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
real test when it comes down to the normal time. i know there was a lot of info to put into this one, but the episode had time to actually breathe, which was sorely missing in RTD days.
― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
So, that bingo card: I make it yesses on:
Geronimosecondary character spouts cryptic prophesyShadow Proclamation namecheckedRun!Flashback or recap of regeneration (if show of doctors counts to that)Amy gets tour of TARDISAlien invasion on the news (was it on the news or just on telly?)Doctor admires his own reflection (nicely done!)Shapeshifting alien is a dog (whoever did these cards has seen this, right?)Aliens take over earth communications devices blah blahswirly blue vortex in new title sequence O NO RLY?
So, not that many, but a good few. Some obvious ones not done. Yet.
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
btw, has the TARDIS always had a mezzanine floor?
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
err...
So either the Tardis caused the cracks in time and space, or the thing making the cracks is also inside the Tardis?
― James Mitchell, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Or that's two wobbly lines of different shapes?
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 4 April 2010 00:01 (34 minutes ago) Bookmark
maybe he dies? got to look on the bright side.
― joe, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
hopefully something prolonged and undignified
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
Tell you what I really loved: no big regen crisis!
The bit where Sophie Peep Show turned into him and he was all "WTF is that? Oh right, is that what I look like?" was nicely done. I did also really appreciate the lack of Tennant, making a clean break was really good (as a firm "OMG not going to be the same without him" Tennant stan, it seemed so much easier to put him behind me and get with Matt Smith).
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also the completely rubbish Patrick Moore cameo.
― ailsa, Saturday, 3 April 2010 23:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
I wonder whether aldo hated it.
― JimD, Sunday, 4 April 2010 06:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Kiss-o-gram," eh??
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 4 April 2010 06:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
Bingo also:Nobody diesTARDIS referred to as she (he called her sexy)
Is Patrick Moore the new Churchill-looking PM of the UK?
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 4 April 2010 06:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Slightly farther to the Right than Churchill iirc
― Top Geir (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 4 April 2010 07:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
dug Matt Smith, really good to have someone new in the role. loved Tennant but I hadn't realized just how annoying his angsty doctor had gotten towards the end.
only thing i hated was music and title sequence. which bums me out cause i really like the new logo.
― Roz, Sunday, 4 April 2010 08:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
As good a debut as I could have hoped for! Really enjoyed it, Matt Smith was very Tennant-esque, but I think he'll get more room to stretch his legs very soon and he was nonetheless quite entertaining. Amy was really cute, trademark Moffatt lurking horror and time jump stuff being very cool and looking forward to more! (I am enthused.)
― Nhex, Sunday, 4 April 2010 10:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Gah I'm away for the weekend and can't watch this but there's total anticipation building now that seemingly everyone likes it.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 4 April 2010 10:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
That conference call/Jeff stuff was a bit sketchy tho. Actually it was baloney, but I think you can excuse that sort of thing if the tone was good.
Also not sure about the Johnny 5 Alive! 'what have I missed' bit on the village green.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Sunday, 4 April 2010 10:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
I welcomed the use of a village setting, maybe because it feels more trad Who than the now over-used inner city London tower blocks of the nu-Who. It helps give the series a different feel. It's less trying to be 'relevant to the kids of today', which was always kind of hopeless.
Little Amelia was great, though I don't really agree she would've made a good companion, just for boring practical reasons I suppose. She would be too much of a burden in tight corners, too dependant on the Doctor. Plus Amy is saucy.
As an opener it was typically flashy, and a touch hyperactive, but Matt Smith hit the ground running imo, and I'm looking forward to more of Moffat's dark fairytale take.
― Duke Newsom (DavidM), Sunday, 4 April 2010 11:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
started groaning at the so-overdone 'all that amazing stuff that happened' and then proper lol'd at the 'that was two years ago!'.
― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Sunday, 4 April 2010 11:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
James Corden, Bill Nighy and Meera Syal
guess this is the kind of shit that zerofies my interest in giving it another go
― conrad, Sunday, 4 April 2010 11:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
I like that the kiss-o-gram job showed that his failure to return forced her into sex work, in the mildest possible way.
― demonic splendor, demonic majesty (Abbott), Sunday, 4 April 2010 17:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
The episode started as a nice nod to the start of the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which was nice. Good to start with the Tardis being unreliable, a good old who standby. Coma patients speaking is becoming a little hackneyed. Good fun though, and i look forward to the rest.
Only thing that tested my suspension of disbelief was the existence of a rural cottage hospital in brown's broken 21st century Britain.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 4 April 2010 17:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think I missed it, but who were the people that were introduced later in the episode, the elderly lady and her son or grandson - were they friends/neighbors of Amy's?
― musically, Sunday, 4 April 2010 18:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, friends/neighbours. Pretty weak and slightly confusing tho.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Sunday, 4 April 2010 18:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
First DW I've really enjoyed in a *long* time. Completely convinced by Matt Smith by 5 mins in. Anyone know where it was set?
― Not the real Village People, Sunday, 4 April 2010 22:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
A fictional village of Leadworth - filmed as usual around Cardiff.
― Nhex, Sunday, 4 April 2010 23:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
Really loved this, except for the music. I wish Murray Gold would have some sort of major life epiphany that makes him give up composing forever.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 5 April 2010 01:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
So good!
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 5 April 2010 02:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
Loved it--Smith seemed just like the Doctor to me. A great start.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 5 April 2010 07:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
Guess which newspaper?
The revealing outfit prompted a flood of comments on online message boards, with a section of fans accusing producers of 'shamelessly sexing up' the long-running family show and labelling it 'slutty'.Writing about Amy, one viewer in an online forum asked: 'Why did she dress up as a tarty policewoman? Surely that's not fitting for a family show.'Another said: 'They've completely demeaned Doctor Who by replacing good episode stories with slutty girls.'
Writing about Amy, one viewer in an online forum asked: 'Why did she dress up as a tarty policewoman? Surely that's not fitting for a family show.'
Another said: 'They've completely demeaned Doctor Who by replacing good episode stories with slutty girls.'
― James Mitchell, Monday, 5 April 2010 09:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
i liked the new title music, if only because they'd ditched the guitars and put synths back in.
the storm clouds and fire textures in the tunnels were too earthly though. it's science fiction, make it look fantastic, not everyday.
― koogs, Monday, 5 April 2010 09:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
golly, this was swell. new tardis looked super cool, and preview of future eps was pretty jaw-dropping (daleks vs. fighter planes?). loved the character design of the aliens, espesh the snowflake-eye-ship.
― ampersand (remy bean), Monday, 5 April 2010 10:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
sooooo... been thinking about maybe giving this a watch?
― rip sarah silverman 3/19/10 never forget (history mayne), Monday, 5 April 2010 10:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
aldo is not in the country so has not seen this yet.
― Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Monday, 5 April 2010 12:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
aldo you will fucking love it BUT we keenly await another timeline update from you! :D
― one of the jones boys (sic), Monday, 5 April 2010 12:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
Coma patients speaking is becoming a little hackneyed
I read that scene as a homage to Seven Crystal Balls, but that might be over-nerding it. Although Moffat did write one half of the first Tintin movie, so maybe not.
Loved the fish custard business at the start, the rest didn't quite match up, but otherwise very promising. It seemed a lot smarter, like a BBC2 Doctor Who, if that makes sense.
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 5 April 2010 13:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
was anyone else mis-stepped by the 'hit with a cricket bat, hits floor, cut to ambulance siren-blaring to hospital forecourt' = ok so doctor has been taken to the hospita... oh hang on.
other odd bits/echoes:an alien fugitive being reclaimed by law-enforcing aliens, plus some hospital scenes. martha's 1st storywhisked away *before* a wedding.very fanboyish continuity jokes/refs re swimming pool and other stuff (i forget)lots of kid's dreamstuff in there (room you never noticed, childhood 'invisible' friend, corner of the eye/blink stuff)lots of allusions to teh filthy stuff (as per moffat in gen)
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 5 April 2010 21:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
A full 8-tentacle salute from here. Really liked the first episode a lot - wanted to see the next one immediately afterward...
Sold on Matt Smith during the "you know when parents tell you everything is going to be alright?" line (which Tennant would have made ridiculously overdramatic).
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 6 April 2010 01:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
was anyone else mis-stepped by the 'hit with a cricket bat, hits floor, cut to ambulance siren-blaring to hospital forecourt' = ok so doctor has been taken to the hospita... oh hang on
yep
on rewatching there's definitely something in the scene the pic james posted comes from - the doctor turns the monitor off as if worried that amy will see the image of the crack on the screen
something odd about the end too with the raggedy-doctor dolls (is amy gonna go psycho-stalkey halfway thru the season?) all out and so close to the wedding dress
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 01:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
I loved this :) which was a happy surprise! Man i love doctor who so much
― mind crystals over matter (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 03:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
Before everyone gets carried away I don't think this was a much better opening episode than 'Rose', but then again Moffatt's got form so I have faith.
Matt Smith - terrific. I really like his occasional bursts of sarcastic zinginess, like when Amy asked him if the door would hold the aliens.
The whole ep - bit of a mess, I thought, too frantic and overstuffed, and the alien stuff raced past as if it wasn't really important (to be fair, in a scene-setting epsiode it isn't really). Could have done with having about three characters removed. Still, The End Of The World is getting a bit boring so nice of Moffatt to get it out of the way early.
The first 10mins - great. Moffatt is at his best when aiming directly at the younger kids, and this hit the nail on the head. He needs to do a story with household insects given alien powers. Spiders, maybe.
Amy - dunno, jury's out. Didn't really get much of a sense of her personality in this one, relative to Rose/Martha/Donna, and Karen Gillen's repertoire of wide-eyed terror expressions leads me to think she might not be a great actress.
Doctor being a dick to Amy's boyfriend - this is always classic, a nice throwback to the Ecclestone era. Amy having to be back the next morning for her wedding day is a good reason not to go back to present day Earth for the rest of the series as well.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 6 April 2010 22:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
You know.. what is the deal with Doctor Who Confidential? I think I give it a shot maybe once a season, but... why is it 45 minutes long when half of it is montages of scenes from the episode you just watched set to pop music? Also why do they seem to repeat the same factoids over and over again? I just watched the one for the first episode, and they explained how stop-motion filming works at least three times, how the Doctor REALLY becomes the Doctor when he finally gets a new wardrobe (you don't say) three times, and so on... damn my behind-the-scenes curiosity.
― Nhex, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 05:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Finally saw this tonight, and showed it to a bar full of abotu 16-17 people there just to see it.
I enjoyed it. I really liked the fact that they worked cell phones in, and that the camera movements were very, VERY different from what we've seen before.
the Murray Gold stuff was bleah, but I figure that what we have to put up with until someone finally kneecaps him. I wish the opening theme didn't have quite so modern beats.
― requiem for crunk (kingfish), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 07:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
The new theme crowds out the bassline with these bombastic strings, and that's unforgiveable in my book.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 11:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
Very much in agreement with everything Matt DC said. Felt like there was something slack about the direction, too. The panel-to-panel storytelling felt a bit confusing, too much going on at one moment, too little at the next. Maybe a reflection of the smaller budget?
What's up with the first ten seconds of the theme, btw? It took way too long to get to the melody.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 11:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
has the budget been cut?
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 11:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
Agree that Moffat keeps packing too much stuff in, but would still rather this than the weak episodes we're likely to get from other writers. Comparisons to 'Rose' are probably pointless as that was largely carried by the overwhelming excitement/expectation and ended up being one of the weaker eps of that series. No opener has ever gone on to stand out as one of the series highlights which is fantastic given The Eleventh Hour's overall quality.
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 11:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
big grin at the doctor sending amy a message to "duck!" - possibly the only person capable of sending such a message would be a time traveler - and it is just too delicious to refrain from using TWICE
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 12:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
(by moffat i mean - that was straight outta "Blink" right?)
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 12:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
(and in Blink he actually adds "no seriously, duck!!")
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 12:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
Good to see "wibby-wobbly, timey-wimey" back as well.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 12:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
In this one he is driving a fire engine towards the window of the hospital where they've told him they're standing tho? No major precog needed there. Although, yes, it seemed like a reference to Blink. xpost
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
Am I the only one that suspects the 'too much stuff packed in' was all being planted for later episodes? As I watched, I noticed that most of the 'extra stuff' were allusions to mystery that I imagine could/will be explored later: the identity of Amy Pond's parents, her mysterious never-seen aunt, the identity of the suitor, the old woman who says 'I've seen you somewhere before...' , the creepy raggedy doctor dolls, etc., etc., etc.
I have the faintest idea that all of it will matter.
Also, I loved loved love the use of the color red in the episode. There's a fire-engine red item in practically every shot.
― ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
I sort of get the feeling that Moffatt can't really arsed to have a whole family knocking about, Rusty-style. Still, Amy having obsessed over the Doctor as some kind of magical figure since childhood is going to lead to a much more interesting dynamic that "ooh I fancy him".
The crack in the universe is going to be a running thread throughout the series, isn't it? I hope they build it up into a proper mystery to be unveiled right at the end.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
I guess what I really enjoy about the introduction of Amy is that she is nearly as much of a mystery and a free agent as the Doctor. She could end up being good, bad, crazy, capable, enfeebling, epic and continuing (a la Jack Harkness) or little more than a one-off, as opposed to Rose/Martha/Donna/Wilf who all arrive on the show as fully drawn figures.
― ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Did Moffatt create Captain Jack himself or did he just write the first ep in which he appeared?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
wiki sez he was a collab b/w barrowman, gardener, and davies
― ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
the old woman who says 'I've seen you somewhere before...' isn't a mystery, surely - the old woman thinks she's seen the doctor before because she's known Amy through her entire phase of raggedy doctor picture-drawing/doll-making/story-telling?
― drama queen woman candidate (c sharp major), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
but idk i originally assumed the old lady was her aunt so what do i know
― drama queen woman candidate (c sharp major), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
no she did indeed recognise him as the raggedy doctor
the whole 'cracks' thing is surely just more of the 'rift' issues that enabled both Cybermen returning, Torchwood etc. it would be daft to try and make it a separate thing but this did seem to be hinted at (the Doctor not knowing why...at least he didn't say "oh yeah, that whole darkness thing").
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
When he said, by the duck pond, "this is too soon, I'm not ready, I'm not done yet", that was him quoting Tennant from the Christmas specials, no? Rewatched it last night (with a transfixed five year old this time), and it did seem like a lot of the tennantisms were more intentional than I'd maybe first assumed.
― JimD, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
Liked the episode. Stupid question from probably not listening at the right moment: thought Amelia said she didn't have parents and lived with her aunt, but had a freshly carved apple from her mother?
(Got a bit tired of previous ongoing companion-family sagas, so quite like to think that the obligation to be back for "stuff" the next day means her own timeline will be avoided for the whole series, and then just whisk her back to get married in the last episode. While trying not to be 12 years late again, obv. Seems fairly unlikely, I realise...)
― falling while carrying an owl (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 13:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
the whole 'cracks' thing is surely just more of the 'rift' issues that enabled both Cybermen returning, Torchwood etc. it would be daft to try and make it a separate thing but this did seem to be hinted at
I thought Moffatt wasn't going to include any of Rusty's stuff and focus on building his own universe, as it were?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 14:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
xpost I think Amelia just said that was what her mother used to do because she didn't like apples either. Good line as well - 'I'll keep that for later', actually kept it for 12 years later, when he used it again.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 14:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
On podcast with (ahem) Richard Bacon, Matt Smith alluded to a lot of setup in the first episode, so the overstuffage may well be part of that.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 14:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
phwoaar
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 14:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
thought Amelia said she didn't have parents and lived with her aunt, but had a freshly carved apple from her mother?
think the implication was that she did have parents, we just don't know what happened to them yet. maybeeee they got zapped back into the past by weeping angels.
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 14:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Also, I loved loved love the use of the color red in the episode. There's a fire-engine red item in practically every shot."
That's interesting. Perhaps the director is a Powell & Pressburger fan? Scorcesee did the same thing in Mean Streets as a homage to P&P. In response Powell said, "I like it, but you've used too much red."
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 15:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
This would be awesome, and she'd be able to bump into them at some point as well.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 15:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
you know, it's possible that amy/amelia's first meeting with the doctor (via the blue box) was not actually the first -- it could explain why she was not at all scared of him.
― ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 15:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
er, then why didn't she recognise him?
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 15:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
in answer to steve, cos he just regenerated
however she wasn't afraid because santa sent her a policeman to save her from the crack.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 15:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Still, Amy having obsessed over the Doctor as some kind of magical figure since childhood is going to lead to a much more interesting dynamic that "ooh I fancy him".
Yeah, this is good. I had the sort of fear with Donna that the fact she admitted in "Partners in Crime" that she'd been carrying around her clothes in the back of her car and sort of stalking him by turning up where bad things happened meant that she had expectations beyond just hanging around doing stuff when she finally did catch up with him, but that never materialised. I hope they stay away from this with Amy as well.
― ailsa, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 16:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh, i don't. i hope she's batshit for him; plunges off the deep end halfway through the season. how often has that happened? a treacherous/unstable companion?
― ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 16:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
I thought there was a hint of a paternal Ecclestone-type attitude from the Doctor as well, can't remember when it was. Maybe when she mentioned she was a kissogram?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 16:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
xpost Turlough mk2. never trust a ginger
― in one word = garg (herb albert), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 16:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh huh btw someone mentioned this elsewhere i think but how on earth can she work as a kissogram when she 1. lives in a village where everyone knows her and 2, does not have a car?
does she take the bus?
― drama queen woman candidate (c sharp major), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 16:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
You don't really care about things like that though, do you?
― Duke Newsom (DavidM), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 16:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
still loling at "kissogram". family friendly!
― Nhex, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 19:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Bingo also:Nobody dies
The (hospital) Doctor dies - offscreen tho. At least I assume she died. Maybe she was just wounded.
I loved this. I've missed a lot of episodes due to issues with Piper and then Tennant but thought these two were great - once I got used to the Dr. being about 16.
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 21:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
I initially assumed that she was part of Wilfred's Doctor-Seeking Geezer Expeditionary Brigade.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Wednesday, 7 April 2010 23:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh huh btw someone mentioned this elsewhere i think but how on earth can she work as a kissogram when she1. lives in a village where everyone knows her and...
presumably she can walk.
― one of the jones boys (sic), Thursday, 8 April 2010 00:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
what, she doesn't kiss where she eats, that's okay
― Nhex, Thursday, 8 April 2010 01:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8607925.stm
Instant response would normally be a big groan, but Charles Cecil could make these great actually.
― JimD, Thursday, 8 April 2010 09:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeh cautiously optimistic. free too!
― aztec gamera (zappi), Thursday, 8 April 2010 16:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/45516174.html#cutid1
― WTF cat with unfitting music (kingfish), Friday, 9 April 2010 00:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Liked this quite a lot. As we've seen from Moffatt's other Who work, it re-uses a lot of his own ideas (the opening bit with the young Amy praying is much closer to the original Sally Sparrow story that he rewrote as part of Blink, for example) and seems to want to be closer to Coupling at times, but not really to any penalty. Colour me optimistic for the rest of the series, Gatiss' dalek story in particular.
Hated the music though, and the new title sequence.
I do have to comment on something Matt said upthread on Hartnell, but I have to nip out just now so it will come later (possibly after episode 2).
― Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Saturday, 10 April 2010 15:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
I thought the second one was terrific. Although I got a bit lost with some of the timey-wimey stuff - were the Queen's last 10 years in some sort of loop? And I don't get when Amy was meant to have recorded that message for the Doctor.
One thing that's already sticking out about this series is the use of children and riffs on children's stories. With the exception of School Reunion and a couple of the Moffatt stories, the Rusty era didn't really use kids at all, it felt very young-teen oriented. The first couple of episodes seem to have a much more fantastical feel to them - I'm thinking CS Lewis/Phillip Pullman style 'children disappear and magical things happen to them'.
Also Amy's character is classic childhood wish fulfillment. The idea of being swept away by an imaginary/secret friend and having loads of adventures over the course of one night is classic children's fiction, very Snowman/BFG. Especially as Amy spent the whole episode in a nightgown. If it carries on in this vein it might turn out to be a stroke of genius on Moffatt's part.
Matt Smith's bumbling professor Doctor is really taking off, he's distancing himself from Tennant already. I liked the bit when he flipped at Amy as well, a bit of an Ecclestone throwback there. Next episode looks like it might even do something interesting with the Daleks as well.
― Matt DC, Saturday, 10 April 2010 18:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
think Cockney Queen who goes "undercover" with a porcelain mask is probably the daftest thing Moff has come up with so far...
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 10 April 2010 18:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
I liked Cockney Queen, although I thought they laid the Last of the Timelords stuff on a bit thick right at the end.
(I was challoping a bit with the Hartnell stuff Aldo, just getting tired of the constant "ah it were better when I were a lad" stuff on these threads).
― Matt DC, Saturday, 10 April 2010 18:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
were the Queen's last 10 years in some sort of loop?
yeah every ten years she has to choose whether to abdicate or forget. it makes sense for the plebs to remember they vote every five years, but she must have to forget she even had the choice.
agree with you about the children's story stuff, seems to be generally true about moffat that he's better when writing for a young audience. press gang>>>>>>>coupling and whatever the fuck else he's done.
― joe, Saturday, 10 April 2010 21:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
Again, totally great I thought. No problem at all with the porcelain mask - goes back to that old literary/historical thing of the monarch wanting to see how his/her subjects really live. Love the way he ties up Ballardian urban images with fairy stories - completely agree with what Matt DC said about aiming for the younger audience with the fantastical (reminds me of that Robert Conquest poem defending science fiction Far Out - about seeing the galaxies in the button eyes of your rag doll).
Also so much happens which isn't simply running about. Love it.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 10 April 2010 21:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
The "forget" and "protest" buttons were brilliant.
I'm no Star Wars geek but there were a couple of things that seemed like little homages - interstellar royalty saying "Save us Doctor - you're our only hope" for instance. And of course suddenly realizing that there's a reason the cave you're in is so damp...
I feel like this Doctor is a bit of a softie so far. That hug! I imagine Tennant, and especially Eccles, kind of flinching if Amy had gone in like that. I like Smith, he has a kind of floppy scarecrow thing going on which is pretty great. Something Tennant had down cold was this kind of appreciation-for-humans-yet-at-a-remove look - a real warm kind of sympathy his eyes were capable of which still managed to convey that he would never belong to Earth, really. Maybe I'm projecting. But being so young is a special challenge for Smith I think. The Doctor is what, hundreds of years old?
― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 10 April 2010 21:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
And I don't get when Amy was meant to have recorded that message for the Doctor.
No, me neither (and was it even good advice? She didn't get him off the ship in the end, and it all turned out ok). I liked that this was such a sci-fi story, I just wish it had come later in the series. It would've been nice to see a bit more interaction between the new doc and amy, but this one was so plot heavy (maybe overly so, some bits felt pretty rushed) that there wasn't much time for that kind of character-based stuff.
Also why are they dumping the naughty kids in the monster pit to be eaten, if they already know it refuses to eat them? In fact why is it eating anyone, if it's basically there to help them all?
― JimD, Saturday, 10 April 2010 21:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Cause it needs food?
They're not dumping the kids down there to be eaten, they're dumping them down there to weed out troublemakers and serve as a warning to others. I don't know exactly what happens to the kids, they seemed sort of zombified..
I figured she recorded it during the 20 minutes she ended up forgetting. By hitting the big "Record" button. No it wasn't good advice, but hey. What she'd seen on the tape scared her, she was convinced there was nothing positive they could do, but she also knew the Doctor would try to save the day, so she recorded a message to her future self to get him out of there before he messed up the nice little authoritarian regime the UK had going.
I guess some might say it's too obvious but I liked the metaphor of the star whale - the people who keep the engine of your country going could probably do a better job if you stopped exploiting them. But we'd rather forget.
― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 10 April 2010 21:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ok, this isn't really solved by the Doctor's intervention then. But yeah, you're probably right about the rest of it. :)
― JimD, Saturday, 10 April 2010 21:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
Murray Gold needs to be horsewhipped.
Otherwise, I liked this episode.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 11 April 2010 00:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Loved it. That Doctor/Amy hug at the end was a wonderful moment...the joy of the Doctor realizing that he's understood, possibly not alone...and after all of those years obsessing and imagining him, the joy of Amy being able show him how much she really knows...felt very genuine.
The story got a little elaborate in places, but overall a really vivid and engaging episode. Though Mr Veg and I lol'd at the last shot of Spaceship UK with the whale underneath..."You know if the Tardis had come in at a lower angle to start with they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble.."
Excited for ole Winny's Ironsides Daleks.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Sunday, 11 April 2010 02:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
Wonder if the daleks will shoot any miners
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 11 April 2010 02:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Agree that this episode had a tone and payoff more suited to a later point in the season, because it felt oddly disengaged for me (could be my indigestion though) and the stakes seemed remote too.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 11 April 2010 06:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
^^ this for me too, when the doctor got mad it felt more mood-swingy than righteous fury. i could see how technically the plot called for fury, but i was like "oh w/e you're not going to really condemn Amy as being the worst person ever in episode 2."
but actually wasn't The Fires of Pompeii the second ep last season? there was a similar "doctor has to make a terrible choice, companion disagrees" situation and i thought it carried sufficient resonance at the time.
― the international mooncake trade (reddening), Sunday, 11 April 2010 06:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
The bare bones of the plot were ok but I'm not really down with the style of 1940s retro-futuristic authoritarian broken britain in space, which I feel like has been done time and time again - e.g. Gridlock, which ok was NY not UK but still had the same air of ramshackle technology, everyone in power behaving like assholes. The Smilers, for example, were just a gimmick, "ooh let's have a scary face in there", there's no logic behind having everyone watched over by dummies in boxes.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Sunday, 11 April 2010 08:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
Though Mr Veg and I lol'd at the last shot of Spaceship UK with the whale underneath...
I think I saw the crack along the side of the ship's saddle, or shell, or whatever it is, in this shot.
― trishyb, Sunday, 11 April 2010 08:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
Xpost - yep, know what you mean about the Smilers - they had no structural point - but they were v sinister.
This felt like an old Peter Davison/Sylvester McCoy four-parter squashed into 40 mins tbh, but I don't really mind the overabundance of ideas. Can make some bits rather sketchy.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Sunday, 11 April 2010 09:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
I didn't think the reveal and exposition bit really held together particularly well but maybe I need to watch it again. Moffatt has quite got the hang of pacing an episode at this point which is strange given he was pretty much the king of it during the Rusty era.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 11 April 2010 09:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
Umm, that was OK but not hugely better than that. As much like a 200AD story as Gridlock, but with the added spice of ripping off Pat Mills' 'Song of the Space Whale' (an unfinished 5th Doctor story, replaced with Mawdryn Undead) and was consistent with the Nerva Beacon trilogy. This series feels very much like the 5th Doctor in tone, which probably isn't a surprise given Moffatt's leanings that way. Still very hopeful, particularly for next week.
Matt, I can see why you'd want to challenge that, and I can see your point to a larger degree. There is barely a six-parter (or longer), for example, that isn't at least one episode too long - The War Games has one episode that achieves absolutely nothing, and ends with Jamie being captured just like the previous one did - and there are even plenty of four-parters that could do with judicious editing. And, of course, no Doctor is above criticism - I myself can't stand the McCoy era (Sylv's characterisation is perhaps the only thing that redeems any of it, although Remembrance is at least watchable in places) and don't really like the majority of Davison, while having rediscovered Colin Baker as only failing due to poor scripts - but picking on Hartnell dialogue stumbles when it was mainly deliberate acting (William Russell has confirmed this, and was used at least in part to cut down the amount of reshooting required as Hartnell's arteriosclerosis did affect his memory to a degree) is one of the tropes that always gets trotted out criticising the b&w era.
Anyway, I'm just starting maybe the worst Who box set yet released (The Time Monster, Underworld and Horns of Nimon, none of which are any good at all) so I may not return in any fit condition.
― Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Sunday, 11 April 2010 10:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
yep. looks like people were right about the crack in the universe being a long running thing.
― cajunsunday, Sunday, 11 April 2010 11:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
"You know if the Tardis had come in at a lower angle to start with they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble.."
a bit like if only the TARDIS had landed in front of the Madame Pompadour painting perhaps
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 11 April 2010 12:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Are the cracks connected with Amy is the question. Crack at her house, crack on the monitor when she enters the Tardis, crack at the end of this episode (i.e. after she's been there).
Didn't like ep2 as much as ep1 but am really impressed with Matt Smith. Too many loose ends (ha! - as if it that was a new development) and I didn't think the Smilers were sinister enough, they needed some weaponry.
― Ned Trifle II, Sunday, 11 April 2010 12:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
First ten minutes would have had me totally spooked as a kid (8-year-old me found pierrot masks and the testcard - see screen in lift - horribly creepy, had recurring nightmares abt out-of-control lifts), so A+ for that
after that, some aspects of plot not really hanging together, but enough flashes of aceness that it didn't wind me up like an RTD cobbled-together plot
loved the Dalek WWII propaganda poster in the preview, if the Beeb (Terry Nation?) have their act together I suspect there is significant geek $$$ to be made in selling prints
― falling while carrying an owl (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 11 April 2010 12:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
feels a bit too soon for Daleks but i do quite like it when you get the next episode set up at the end of the current one
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 11 April 2010 12:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
I don't like it when they basically show you all but the last ten minutes of the next episode in the trailer though. Turning off b4 that shit next time.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Sunday, 11 April 2010 12:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
It is totally glib to say this (& dismissive cliché during the RTD era), but these first shows do feel like childrens TV, in the best possible way. "Giant Space Whale" and "Humungous Eyeball Ship" are as kid-imaginative as it comes, and the glut of ideas is part of a new style, i think, that i am like. it extends the universe outside of the teleology of the plot & individual episode, in sort of a novel way.
admittedly, there were some scattershot ends.
― ampersand (remy bean), Sunday, 11 April 2010 12:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Dear God, the Time Monster is awful. The only saving graces are Ingrid Pitt and the Atlantean servant in ep 5 that looks like Darlene out of Roseanne (only he's a bloke).
Underworld isn't nearly as bad as I remember it being though. I'm almost enjoying it.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 11 April 2010 14:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Only just had the chance to catch up with the first two eps, pretty fantastic all round. All the gloss and pace of the RTD era, but far less glib and lazy. I think I may prefer Smith to Tennant already - over-confident funny looking nerd is so much more fun than over-confident handsome capable dude.
This felt like an old Peter Davison/Sylvester McCoy four-parter squashed into 40 mins tbh, but I don't really mind the overabundance of ideas.
Yeah, there were easily enough ideas for a two-parter here. But bring it on, I say. Excited for the future of the show.
― BTW, I'm frightfully middle-class (chap), Sunday, 11 April 2010 14:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
As soon as I saw it I wanted one, so I think you're right.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 11 April 2010 15:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
I saw the last one, with the space whale, I thought it was pretty decent overall, although I wish they'd SLOW DOWN a bit, and I found the ending a bit abrupt & borderline nonsensical. I saw the trailer for the next ep & was like oh shit, not the daleks again, give it a rest at first, but I have to admit, the khaki ww2 daleks were funny & a cute conceit so I'm looking forward to it.
― dead flower :( (Pashmina), Sunday, 11 April 2010 15:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Really enjoyed the episodes, although in retrospect there were a lot of things that seemed "outside" the plot, but nevertheless it was very good. Matt Smith has officially won me over, he was much less Tennant-y in this ep versus the previous one, and he deadpanned a few lines while in the mouth that gave me genuine lols.
― musically, Sunday, 11 April 2010 17:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
I wish they'd SLOW DOWN a bit
There were a few lines early on when things were being rapidly explained that I literally didn't understand even after rewinding a few times. This also happened with Tennant episodes but usually only when he was launching into one of his purposefully nonsensical tech explanations.
I may prefer Smith to Tennant already - over-confident funny looking nerd is so much more fun than over-confident handsome capable dude.
That's a good point.
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 11 April 2010 18:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, not bad. The episode's shortcomings are saved by the two leads, who I find really watchable, likeable, whatever. The Smilers, like the scarecrows in the Family of Blood episode, didn't make much logical sense, but were a neat idea as something creepy to stick in the minds of children watching. They would've been creepier though, if they just had a manic grin as one fixed expression. A frown, even the demonic grimace, aren't as unsettling as a dead-eyed, malevolent smile on those kind of things.
while having rediscovered Colin Baker as only failing due to poor scripts
And with being a really really horrible actor?
― Duke Newsom (DavidM), Sunday, 11 April 2010 18:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
I still got a few manic Tennanty vibes off Smith, but I'll agree that he had moments of quiet deadpan that would work as his Doctor Thing.
Properly freaked out when that one hoodie human's head turned around to reveal a Smiler.
Also complaining about the music is for losers. I'm a winner.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 11 April 2010 18:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
Just seen it, fucking excellent, fuiud
― POLL closes: April 31st (in 100 years) (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 11 April 2010 19:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
I can see what you mean, but I don't agree with you at all. The utterly dislikeable Doctor has been done to a much lesser degree before and since (Hartnell, Ecclescake and Tennant in the Christmas Invasion) so IMHO the fact he does it overplayed in neither here nor there. The remainder is sub-Tom, sure, but has the same contemptuous tone , with maybe the boorishness and superiority of Hartnell. I can live with that.
Mel is still kind of shit, though.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 11 April 2010 19:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Anyone else get a slight Buckaroo Banzai feel from Smith's outfit?
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 11 April 2010 22:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
Really enjoyed this, and yeah, the kid-oriented-but-with-stuff-for-adults things really works for me. (As for Colin Baker, at the time I assumed his being unlikable was a symptom of his regeneration going wrong and his personality never settling down, but rewatching them more recently this idea wasn't as strongly run with as I remember, so Maybe not).
What with the Magpie Electricals thing, Moffat's hardly pretending the RTDavies years never happened. He's just quietly outwriting all of Davies work.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 12 April 2010 01:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah i wondered about the Magpie thing having not realised that the Doctor's new monitor as first seen in The Eleventh Hour also had a Magpie Electricals logo on it. Would expect to see one in the next ep too now esp. with it being by the Idiot Lantern writer and set in a nearby time.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2010 00:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
aldo you will fucking love it BUT we keenly await another timeline update from you! :D― one of the jones boys (sic), Monday, 5 April 2010 22:54 (1 week ago)
― one of the jones boys (sic), Monday, 5 April 2010 22:54 (1 week ago)
hmmmmmmmm
― it's all abt groups, like i was saying in the jerk thread a few days ago (sic), Thursday, 15 April 2010 01:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hmmm indeed. I did find it a bit odd that nobody knew who the Doctor was in the 11th Hour. The 1990 date on the NHS card is interesting, but the smart phones and wi-fi don't exactly match up. Not sure what to make of this reading, but there's clearly some funny time-wimey-wibbly-wobbly stuff going on. It also raises the question, why did the Tardis go back in time during the regeneration? Perhaps the regeneration and the banishing of the Time Lords has caused some sort of crack in space in time...
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
There was also the weird blue line of mist across the pair of them in 11th Hour, is maybe also time crack? Gave myself lulz anagramming Amelia Pond - the best two I got were Opal Maiden and (groan) Oedipal Man.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
The NHS card date thing has to be intentional because why show it at all/do they normally have issue dates on them? But what can it mean.
why did the Tardis go back in time during the regeneration?
could've gone into a parallel universe theoretically, where everything is the same but just a little bit different e.g. Blackberry Storms in 1994. Uh.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, what the hell was that blue mist?? I noticed it, too.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
i assumed that was just a clunky directorial choice to emphasize the importance of the 'moment' where they really connect as doctor and companion.
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Or maybe Rory is the crack in time... Or maybe he's slipped through the crack from 1990...
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
Midichlorians?
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
No, that's what that crap oooh-oooh music is for. It was a line of mist but I'm not going to nerd out and check for the 'crack' aspect by re-watching.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
I am glad to have started a trend.
I noticed the blue thing too, but assumed the same as Gubke.
I did notice all the cars being older (specifically the fire engine), and wasn't sure whether the "how do you know it's a duck pond if there's no ducks?" line was a further pointer that not everything was right.
******************************************************************************STUFF THAT FOLLOWS COULD BE CONSIDERED SPOILERY IF YOU CONSIDER TRAILERS BROADCAST ON TELEVISION OR INTERVIEWS WITH THE MOFF TO BE SPOILERY******************************************************************************
The spoilery thing that Moffatt announced before the series started that the 'big bad' for this series was in every episode, plus the spoilery rumour (which I won't reveal) about who/what the 'big bad' actually is, makes a lot of sense based on what we've seen thus far.
One of the big problems I see that he has to write soon is the reappearance of River Song, or rather the event in the forthcoming episode. The easiest way out of it is a bit of handwaving that she sees The Doctor in a different way to everybody else, but it definitely doesn't seem 100% consistent with her first appearance.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah I could never work out quite how River Song recognised Tennant in the last series, and why she didn't seem that thrown by his appearance.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Well it took her awhile to figure it out, didn't it? And once she did she was pretty overwhelmed with emotion IIRC!
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
(Leading to classic Tennant "Oh you adore me too, huh?" type behavior)
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
I would like to be directed to both those spoilery things, Aldo.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
Well it took her awhile to figure it out, didn't it?
No she seemed to immediately know who he was and was on familiar terms, despite surely knowing that the Tennant Doctor had never met her?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think "eccentric guy suddenly turns up in place he has no right to be with bemused companion in tow" wd probably be good enough clues for her.
― longer lasting, thicker elections (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah it's also that it took her quite a while to twig that she'd brought him to the library too early in his life.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 15 April 2010 12:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
Even if Matt Smith is the first doctor she meets, it doesn't preclude her having met the Tennant doctor at a point we did not see on screen, after the library episode but before regeneration.
― ithappens, Thursday, 15 April 2010 13:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
it was kinda like she'd met or seen Tennant's Doctor before but only briefly. maybe she just recognised him from an image she'd seen of the Doctor's previous incarnations, like the footage they've shown twice now of the Doctor's different faces.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2010 13:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
^ which always bugs me in a fun way because WHO filmed those images of the Doctor etc. lol
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2010 13:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hmm, perhaps the jagged line is The Master... It was never quite clear what happened to him in End of Time. He wasn't necessarily sucked into oblivion with the rest of the Time Lords. Perhaps he's now existing in a rift in time and space and he's masterminding the whole thing. Quite an elaborate back up plan though...
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Thursday, 15 April 2010 14:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
xpost to myself - later in his life but earlier in her life. Oh, the problems of time travel. Though that can sometimes happen on the High Barnet branch of the Northern Line, too.
― ithappens, Thursday, 15 April 2010 17:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
also the number 30 bus
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 15 April 2010 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Suzy, you have spoilery webmail.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Thursday, 15 April 2010 18:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
They could have sold me this. Cheers BBC!
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/d11s01/d11s01e01_to_victory.pdf
― scotstvo, Thursday, 15 April 2010 18:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
^^^right next to the Keep Calm and Carry On poster, yes?
I like my spoilery webmail v much, Aldo. Thanks.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Thursday, 15 April 2010 18:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
Some of this is awesome.
― James Mitchell, Friday, 16 April 2010 10:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
Finally watched the last episode - really liked it! So many ideas, plot moved kind of ridiculously fast! stuff like the "record" button explaining that Amy just recorded that message now, i mean, damn, I totally missed that. There was so much going on it made the flow of the episode a little off, but I'm with the rest of you who are really into the children's fantasy vibes these two eps have been going with.
All the Who universe callbacks are great, and this reminded me functionally a bit of Eccleston's second episode, the one where a bunch of aliens watch the Earth burn, which also went into explaining a bunch of the new incarnation of the Doctor, last of the Time Lords, fresh companion reactions, so on. That one I think also introduced the "cell phone outside of time".
The fact that it actually led directly into the next story was AWESOME, though I'm not sure exactly why, since it was totally unnecessary.
― Nhex, Friday, 16 April 2010 22:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
<3 <3 <3
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 17 April 2010 13:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
DON'T TELL HIM, PIKE
― koogs, Saturday, 17 April 2010 14:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
"would you care for some tea" lol
― Slumpman, Saturday, 17 April 2010 17:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
the orange dalek is my favourite
― Slumpman, Saturday, 17 April 2010 17:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
no matter what else, i love the colours
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Saturday, 17 April 2010 18:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Nice merchandising guys.
Srsly tho, this series keeps getting better.
― Bone Thugs-n-Carmody (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2010 18:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, liked that. Time is defintiely fucked though.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 17 April 2010 18:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'm pleased that Moffat is being a lot more explicit about the Grand Finale story arc, actively developing it each week rather than RTD's one cryptic reference and nowt else approach.
― Bone Thugs-n-Carmody (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
where was the crack?
new daleks are too big, too clean, too bright. i liked when they looked like landrovers, not mini coopers.
― koogs, Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
The colour palette on the Daleks was v. deliberately 50s UK design I thought.
There was a crack in the wall of the War Room, think it was there anyway.
― Bone Thugs-n-Carmody (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
River Song plus Weepy Angels next week I might have to take a sedative for.
― Bone Thugs-n-Carmody (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Dalek colour palette was actually very Italian Job.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, maybe 60s rather than 50s. But deliberately retro, yes.
― Bone Thugs-n-Carmody (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
They zoomed in on the glowing crack as the TARDIS disappeared at the end.
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
i must've looked away because, yes, it's obvious.
― koogs, Saturday, 17 April 2010 19:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hmm, maybe the FORGET button has been introduced (and used) before.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Saturday, 17 April 2010 20:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
I thought the flag shown just before the glowing crack was also hanging in the shape of the crack, but maybe it is me on crack instead
wd not be surprised to learn there were other cracks earlier on too, though
― falling while carrying an owl (a passing spacecadet), Saturday, 17 April 2010 21:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
Daleks reminded me of this:
2000s reinterpretation of a classic design. Whilst i like the idea of all new daleks the episode wasn't as good as the previous ones, can't put my finger on why yet.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 17 April 2010 21:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think (but can't remember where I read it) they're supposed to be daleks from DIoE.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 17 April 2010 21:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
episode feels kind of unconnected and weird, dalek "plan" incomprehensible to anyone but rewinders and the hardcore, churchill is basically irrelevant and repeats himself all the time.. only halfway through though because of teething crisis though, maybe it all ties up nicely
it's a gimme to set daleks among the nazi menace - they basically ARE the nazis of the universe right?
― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
that parallel was none too subtly drawn for the umpteenth time
― Bone Thugs-n-Carmody (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
Rubbish new dalek design imo, basically just gave 'em a fat arse. Enjoyed star wars meets Who meets ww2 though, ludicrous though it was.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
The new Daleks were basically about the voice change, I think. They've tried to make them more bad-ass and hence the new butched-up voices. The old skool Daleks can be pretty camp at times, especially when fetching cups of tea and pretending not to know who the Doctor was.
― Bone Thugs-n-Carmody (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Not brilliant, but it sets up the daleks to just come back whenever, rather than needing to set up a new bunch of hokum every time to explain why.
― scotstvo, Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Think these eps suffer from the opposite of old who, trying to cram too much story in a short time. The Q&A aboard dalek ship where the doctor gets them to explain their plan a dreadful violation of 'show not tell'.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
(or just a crap way of telling)
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
I liked how Amy defused the bomb using Love, but i was hoping she was going to use her kissogram powers to kiss the robot into a human
― Slumpman, Saturday, 17 April 2010 22:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
Not only the Spitfires in space and the Dalek spaceship escaping into hyperspace, but Dr Scots McRobot got his left hand chopped off and replaced with a leather glove.
― James Mitchell, Saturday, 17 April 2010 23:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
Chris Hardwicke & John Hodgman's twitter exchange:
Nerdist: Getting ready for small Doctor Who watching party and very happy about it.
Hodgman: @nerdist it may seem like a small party, but it's larger on the inside.
― WTF cat with unfitting music (kingfish), Sunday, 18 April 2010 01:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
Though in a way it's undercutting the more emotional moments and character development a little, I do kind of love how these episodes have been like the old Who stories, but sped up to an hour, so it's just non-stop THINGS HAPPENING NOW, NO TIME TO WASTE! Very entertaining, though often going so fast I miss lines or exposition even, need to pause and rewind to catch things. But perhaps better than too much exposition or hand-wringing?
Candy-coated Daleks with new voices, can't really complain. WOULD-YOU-LIKE-SOME-TEA was excellent! Surprised how serious the Doctor's reaction and FINALLY being able to get rid of them once and for all was - with the previous stories (minus the Eccleston "Dalek") it felt like he'd just accepted that they'll always come back again somehow. Wonder if his stressing out over it will come back down the line (and not just in the obvious "Daleks return for the season finale" type deal).
― Nhex, Sunday, 18 April 2010 01:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
i thought jocular amy was rubbish - i.e. "paisley boy" - she seemed almost like a different character this time around, a gum-crackin back-talkin dame or something which frankly i don't think she pulls off nearly as well as just earnest, confused amy. do not want.
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 18 April 2010 06:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
and oh yeah if anyone has the strength to explain to me the reasoning behind how they defused the man-bomb i'd be grateful. totally didn't get it - i thought bracewell was a robot? in that case how could anyone prove he's human in the first place? (obvious visual gag unexploited - low angle shot sees bracewell's crotch pitch a tent as amy leans over him.. the doctor's like "ah. done and dusted")
also, how do we feel about the doctor refusing to save several hundred thousand jewish, gypsy, gay and politically left-wing lives in the concentration camps?
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 18 April 2010 06:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
eh, i'll handwave that away with the doctor mostly tries to fix the problems caused by aliens, not by mankind to themselves, and certain events are fixed mumbo jumbo (like when he couldn't stop the aliens causing Vesuvius to erupt)
wisecrackin' Amy made sense to me - since that "12 years!" bit in the premiere, I got the impression she was a bit of a screwball dame, and i wish to see more of it
defused man-bomb was totally silly, basically a parallel of the whole "let's defeat the robot by giving him a logic problem he can't solve!" trope, replacing it with the "if we can convince him he's human / has free will, he can override his PROGRAMMING!" trope. Am too surprised Amy didn't land in with that "kissogram"
oh yeah one last thing - starting to think all those Star Wars rips in the last couple of Tenant episodes were totally intentionally now, like the show's going for more of that kind of action in the fighter scene (i mean, literally WWII in space...)
― Nhex, Sunday, 18 April 2010 06:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
the iceland volcano definitely seems like it's tied into an as-yet-unwritten doctor who episode
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 18 April 2010 06:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
this episode really turned me off amy, i'm not sure why. i feel like she was called on to carry certain emotional aspects of the show, and to do a little comedy, and she mainly substituted facebook pout faces for it
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 18 April 2010 06:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
not that i'm, on a certain level, complaining
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 18 April 2010 07:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
Too much "Oh we can just happen to save the world" in this one: Bracewell converting Spitfires to fly in space in five minutes, when he's in the Cabinet war rooms, not at an airfield. The Doctor just realising he could appeal to the humanity in Bracewell to defuse the bomb. I know we're not getting realism, but this was just silly and slapdash, after the brilliant set-up.
― ithappens, Sunday, 18 April 2010 10:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Jammie Dodger was a nice idea, to begin with...but man, how long was it dragged out? And why? All it did was buy time, and that time was just spent letting the daleks explain their plan and then execute it.
Yeah, pretty rub ep overall, I thought.
― JimD, Sunday, 18 April 2010 10:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was no Jammy Dodger.
― i would just like to point out that i have been antimony on this thread (onimo), Sunday, 18 April 2010 11:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
i;ve been craving fox's jam rings ever since
when will the Daleks stop feeling like they have to tell the Doctor everything?
hoping that Amy's failure to remember the Daleks is entirely do with her and not some 'none of that ever actually happened' reset.
at the end was Bracewell off to become Dorabella's robot lover? ban this sick filth
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 18 April 2010 11:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
Did Fox's Jam Rings exist in wartime Britain? Continuity error or alternate reality???
Dalek's are shit at this aren't they - every fucking time they go and spill the beans instead of going "oh look it's him again just fucking kill him! Don't even say EXTERMINATE!"
I think it's more Amy's not from when we originally thought and it hasn't happened yet on her timeline.
― i would just like to point out that i have been antimony on this thread (onimo), Sunday, 18 April 2010 11:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
Or rather I think the thing that made her forget, or changed events for her, hasn't happened yet (classic Moffatt timey-wimeyness, in other words).
― Roz, Sunday, 18 April 2010 11:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
that's all covered in the Johnston link
another Star Wars ref: his blue glowing laser tube gets blown up and replaced with a green one.
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Sunday, 18 April 2010 12:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
remember how the doctor jumped '5 minutes' forward in the series -- only many years really elapsed? I wonder if he's right: if only 5 minutes did pass...
― ampersand (remy bean), Sunday, 18 April 2010 12:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
the cracks are losing some currency as cliff-hangers now. time to reveal a bit more than just another crack (tho now we've seen crack in present, crack in future and crack in past).
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 18 April 2010 12:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
crackin 3 episodes
― i would just like to point out that i have been antimony on this thread (onimo), Sunday, 18 April 2010 13:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 18 April 2010 15:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
There's definitely something wonky, Churchill pointed out that The Doctor and Amy didn't turn up until a month after he called (yet he still managed to get back from the Dalek ship in linear time, I was fully expecting him to turn up in 1974 and wonder where Amy had gone or something)
― ailsa, Sunday, 18 April 2010 16:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
me too. i explained it to myself that he wasn't using the time aspect of the tardis, just the space aspect. (as if the two were separable HA)
i thought it was a bit lame that the doctor waited until all but one of the british pilots were dead to realise that he could actually just hey, disable the daleks' shields.. and even then he had to be asked to do it by the last surviving pilot.
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 18 April 2010 16:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
at least he could have been like woops sorry dude
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 18 April 2010 16:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
This was a pretty badly done episode, IMO. How could the gravity bubbles get implemented in ten minutes? And the lasers too? Why was the Dalek ship an empty office building inside? How can a bomb be stopped by love, and isn't an oblivion continuum the thing that young time-lords stare into when they are inducted into the academy? I could be wrong about that, of course...
And I don't like the fat hunchback aspect of the new Daleks. I do like the colors though... reminds me of the comic books. Also the suspense of what the Daleks were doing on Earth and how they got there was done away with way too early in the episode.
Also, weren't the Daleks that were destroyed fro being "impure" the same Daleks that Davros had recently recreated from his very own cells? That sounds pretty pure to me... And Daleks are all clones and mutants anyway so that's kind of silly even if they were not from Kaled stock.
― Of "Trade Federation" fame, (Viceroy), Sunday, 18 April 2010 16:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
That piper-smith photo is 4 years old.
― JimD, Sunday, 18 April 2010 17:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
Aye, they've starred in a few things together so makes sense they could hang out together.
― ailsa, Sunday, 18 April 2010 17:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/42785872.html
― JimD, Sunday, 18 April 2010 17:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Quite enjoyed this, it felt like Moffatt had to work out a way to make the Daleks a kind of constant presence in the universe rather than surprisingly re-emerging after having been destroyed throughout all time and space for the fifth time.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 18 April 2010 19:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy not remembering the Daleks seems a good way of writing round the Rusty problem of having had the earth invaded nineteen times in the space of four years.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 18 April 2010 19:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
why did they need his testimony again? apart from for social network sites
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 18 April 2010 19:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Still not sure about the SUV daleks although I appreciate the reset. Much scarier as a constant presence.
Thought, could he have slipped into Rose/Evil Trigger Universe -> no torchwood, more cybermen, other ways to bring back timelords, the rani, the master etc.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 18 April 2010 19:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
why did they need his testimony again? apart from for social network sites― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 18 April 2010 14:11 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 18 April 2010 14:11 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
dalek egg would not recognise the daleks as daleks as they were human blends and impure. However dalek egg would take the doctor's word for it.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 18 April 2010 19:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
> This was also the reason we all knew Davros was coming back as well.> Diamanti Gallas (aldo), Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:01 PM (3 weeks ago)
i think they made a mistake letting the one-armed dalek-related robot guy go...
― koogs, Sunday, 18 April 2010 19:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
I hope so, I reckon this is why 60s london was a wasteland.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 18 April 2010 19:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
I saw an FJ Cruiser today and immediately thought of Churchill daleks. Ed, you have given me a permanent mental equals sign between the two!
― kissogram powers (Abbott), Sunday, 18 April 2010 20:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
There's definitely something wonky, Churchill pointed out that The Doctor and Amy didn't turn up until a month after he called
it'll be a shame if they use this as an indication of the cracks IN TIME, since the Doctor always used to be complete rubbish at aiming the TARDIS properly on long jaunts (whether due to him not really knowing how to work it, or it having been in for repairs when he nicked it)
also pls NO MORE dramatic zoom-ins or close-ups on the end-of-episode cracks, the first one was nicely plain-but-not-overstated
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Sunday, 18 April 2010 23:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
feel like there should've been a scene where, as well as Churchill asking for the Doctor's help, he badgers him to reveal whether or not they do actually win the war. then again i guess the Doctor doesn't usually reveal to the people he meets that he can actually travel in time so he wouldn't necessarily know.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 18 April 2010 23:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
there was a bit where the Doctor almost said it without doing so - something about "you don't really need me to hang around" and so on
― Nhex, Sunday, 18 April 2010 23:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
Another wrongness in time: Churchill mentioning Buckingham Palace and St Paul's Cathedral geting hit by bombs--didn't these two BIG buildings rather famously never get bombed?
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 19 April 2010 01:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
Could be handwaved away by saying that the cracks in the universe have messed up the timeline.
How could the gravity bubbles get implemented in ten minutes? And the lasers too? Why was the Dalek ship an empty office building inside? How can a bomb be stopped by love, and isn't an oblivion continuum the thing that young time-lords stare into when they are inducted into the academy?
The answer to all questions is "timey wimey."
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Monday, 19 April 2010 04:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
I don't think they want to handwave away the main plotline of the series.
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Monday, 19 April 2010 05:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, thought that one was a bit crap really. New fleet of daleks = much worse at shooting. Kinda agree with dalek that said positronic android brain (old Asimov idea?) being thwarted by memories of love was IMPOSSIBAL. Sudden appearance of space planes after ten minutes was laughable. More like the last series with running around + significant speeches + who cares what happens? we'll just invent some stuff to get round it, people won't notice because it's too exciting, whereas the last two episodes felt like they had stuff happening in them. The Doctor and Amelia relationship completely treading water (still a sense they were getting to know each other in the last two, this one it was like they'd been hanging round forever).
Shame, because I liked the Magic Lantern, (possibly only person?).
Assumed St Paul's thing was a deliberate parallel time bubble universe thing as well.
Wd very much like crack in time not to be a Master/Dalek/Cybermen plot, but some fundamental problem of decay or something (does the crack lead to the 'real' world? Maybe the Doctor was banished to this one as a result of his hubristic interventionism in the last series).
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Monday, 19 April 2010 06:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
did they mention St Paul's by name - i remember "Wren's churches" which could be other buildings right?
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 19 April 2010 09:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
On Buckingham Palace: The palace fared worse during World War II; it was bombed no less than seven times, the most serious and publicised of which resulted in the destruction of the palace chapel in 1940. Coverage of this event was played in cinemas all over the UK to show the common suffering of rich and poor.
― Bob Six, Monday, 19 April 2010 09:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
kinda lol mostly interesting
― mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 19 April 2010 10:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
My guess is that the crack in time is Timelords related, and very possibly Weeping Angels related as well. There was a hint of some kind of connection in the last Rusty story and I'd assumed Moffatt got him to put that in there.
― Matt DC, Monday, 19 April 2010 11:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
1. Anyone else notice the (possibly sexytime) stares Amy was giving the lady communications officer?
2. I loled at how the soldiers who were zapped by the Daleks merely fell to the ground, dead, instead of being disintegrated. For all the snazzy new production values, it was a quaint touch.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Monday, 19 April 2010 23:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
But that's the way people have always died via Daleks. The disintegration ray is a max strength new super pure Dalek speciality.
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 00:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
she was worried about the lady comms officer's emotional distress, not trying to see down her tunic
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 00:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think she was supposed to look worried, but it did end up looking v. sexytime.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 02:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
that is because Amelia Pond is hotter than the sun and cannot help looking sexytime
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 03:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also the one of the soldiers started acting "zapped" before the visual effect, and a bunch of times the Daleks speech and their lights were very badly out of sync. I think it was deliberate to add a bit of the feeling of the classic series, and since I don't think most people really notice stuff like that they can pretty much get away with it.
― Viceroy of the Daleks (Viceroy), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 03:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
^^^for all time
― ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 03:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
^^^^yup
― Nhex, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 03:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'm going to show either ep 2 or ep 3 to a bar tuesday night. We'll see which one they vote to see, and how well it goes over.
― WTF cat with unfitting music (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 08:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
LOL, was wondering what all that Paisley stuff was doing in the last episode, then googled Steven Moffat only to find out he's from Paisley... and then there's David Tennant of course
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 09:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
Neil thought it was a Tennant nod, I thought it was purely Moffat being Moffat. With Amy instantly knowing he was a "Paisley boy" from his accent, which didn't sound remotely like anyone I've ever met in Paisley, I though it was just Moffat giving a shout-out to his hometown rather than everything Scotland always having to be Glasgow or Edinburgh all the time (see also companion from Inverness).
― ailsa, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Who would recognise a Paisley accent these days? There isn't one anymore, is there?
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
Well, aye, that was sort of my point.
― ailsa, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
Unless Bill Paterson had started going on about putting his bits on and sharpening a peencil
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
"We have to convince him he's human, get some kind of human reaction out of him"
"OK Paisley boy.... do you support the Hoops?"
"Partick Thistle"
"We're doomed"
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
Doubt anyone from Paisley has ever supported Partick Thistle!
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
Exactly..!
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 11:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Like Snoop in the Wire asking the guy from New York if he liked K-Swift
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 11:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ah, I get ya
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 11:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Snoop (the other one) is a Hoops fan
― broad layering (onimo), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 11:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
I thought that Nu Who Daleks disintegrated its doomed human victims, while the prior series had a flash of light and the puny humans just falling over.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 15:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
News flash: Matt Smith appears to have been dating Daisy Lowe for three months. That is all.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 15:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Should I know who Daisy Lowe is?
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 16:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
apparently this is Daisy Lowe:
beware her GIS at work btw unless yr boss is totally cool with models getting their tits sucked in fashion editorials
― don't you steal my Sunstein (HI DERE), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 16:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
I don't think it would improve your life much, no. Unless you care about microceleb daughters of other microcelebs.
xpost
― ailsa, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 16:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oh right, I admit she's quite good looking, considering she's Arthur Lowe's daughter
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 16:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
LOL she is Gavin Rossdale and Pearl Lowe's daughter, actually.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
To get back to my nerdish fantasies...
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 21:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, that was really weird. I kept thinking it was going to lead into a 'I'm from the future but I am yo sista' convo a la Martha and the maid from a few seasons back.
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Well, I am wondering about the parallel universe because of the ridiculous amount of midair zeppelins. Also the woman you guys are focusing on was in emotional distress from the beginning of the episode.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 21:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
Are we in a parallel universe, though, or is Amy just from the 90s? I mean, one of the classic Who hooks for an ep is 'something that shouldn't be happening here right now - let's fix it and return things to how they should be'. So really every Who ep is a parallel universe ... just thinking aloud here
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 21:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
I am wondering about the parallel universe because of the ridiculous amount of midair zeppelins
figure now they've opened this can of worms there's an infinite number of parallels and the Cybermen were able to infiltrate more than one. but conveniently there were only Timelords in this one somehow, as the alternative is just too fucked.
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 22:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
zeppelins = barrage balloons
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 22:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 22:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oh OK, I was looking for something like that but no dice - still, the zeppelin things in the episode seemed like precursors to the zeppelin tech in alt.universe and not the ones above.
― show us on the doll where the hotdish was served (suzy), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 23:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
they were the same as the balloons in the eccelston/rose episode that introduced jack harkness. what's weird to think about is that eccelsdoctor/rose/jack were in london simultaneous to smithdoctor/amy while meanwhile jack-frozen-under-the-earth-by his brother gray was present at the same time. crowded!
― ampersand (remy bean), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 23:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
She was giving looks to lady comms long before lady comm's fella died.
Yes, because she was in emotional distress from the scene at the beginning where her fella's squadron was called up, and she knew there was a strong likelihood he would get killed
Are we in a parallel universe, though, or is Amy just from the 90s?
They had mobile phones with colour screens and hi-res cameras and Facebook on 'em in the '90s round your way?
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Tuesday, 20 April 2010 23:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
They didn't have cracks in the space-timey-wimey thing round our way, is the point, I think. Time has gone wrong. Again.
― broad layering (onimo), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 00:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
It helps from a point POV because it's better to have an earth where alien invasions are utterly terrifying and new than it is to have an earth that's been invaded 19 times in the space of four years or whatever.
It also helps that people aren't looking to the Doctor as some kind of saviour who will inevitably turn up and make everything okay.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 08:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
That seemed like the most old-school Who episode so far of the new series: lots of pointless standing around and talking, a rubbish matte backdrop of London, the entire story played out within two cheap-looking BBC sets. A bit crap, really.
Agree that Amy was a bit annoying and wooden this time (although that might have been Mrs Chuck's influence, as she kept yelling "Oh my god she's so annnnnoyyingggg" every five minutes).
Matt Smith was a bit subdued and insipid too, I thought -- not always quite selling his punchlines, which he's been better at before. Perhaps this episode was shot earlier than the previous one, because his performance seemed much less confident. Or maybe it was the shite script. That punch was terrific, though.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 09:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah there were plenty of big pay-off lines that Smith just managed to get a piece of rather than hit square on the nose. The one that sticks out for me is "Oh Winston, you beauty!" which he just sort of bellows. I have to admit missing Tennant at that point. He would have allowed the new facts to settle in, eyes growing wider, and whispered it.
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 10:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
"It also helps that people aren't looking to the Doctor as some kind of saviour who will inevitably turn up and make everything okay."
although the previous ep had already re-established the royalty know who the doctor are bit.
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 10:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah there were plenty of big pay-off lines that Smith just managed to get a piece of rather than hit square on the nose. The one that sticks out for me is "Oh Winston, you beauty!" which he just sort of bellows. I have to admit missing Tennant at that point.
Too much of a Tennant line for me, that one. Part of the problem with episiodes like this is that the writers are writing in the dark a bit and are still have the last Doctor in mind quite a lot. You'd expect Smith's Doctor to come out a lot more in the Moffatt episodes and he's already doing that. The early Tennant episodes suffered from this quite a bit too, in that he still felt a bit not-quite-Ecclestone.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 10:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah thought of Tennant too re 'you byowty'
if Moffat going to get thru a whole series without anyone actually getting killed I wonder. surely he has to cave in soon. the odd thing about the Angels is that they have this angry demonic face when attacking but they're not actually killing or eating anyone (i can't actually remember what they get out of sending people back in time, some weird energy buzz?.
silly but what if the Doctor being not in his usual reality explained why he wasn't around for Torchwood: Children Of Earth lol (doesn't really make sense but)
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 11:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
Perhaps this episode was shot earlier than the previous one, because his performance seemed much less confident.
Yeah, they shot episodes 2 through 4 or 5 before they shot the first one so he would have a good grasp on what he was doing when he debuted.
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 11:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Seems to have a catchphrase already, though: something like "Hah-harhhhhhh!" He's said it every episode.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 11:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
"if Moffat going to get thru a whole series without anyone actually getting killed I wonder"
well ppl died in the Gatiss ep (well 2 guards on screen, and radio operator's husband/boyf), or do you just mean Moff's own stories?
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 11:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
just his own yes. he is writing the next two right? the ordering of all this seems strange on that basis. after Daleks and WAs so early what's left for the 2nd half of the series? oh yeah, Silurians and Cybermen, and that deadly monster Van Gogh.
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 11:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
I've been sort of expecting MORE DALEKS as the WWII was just a way to get the 'but how did...' stuff out of the way for a big story, but with any luck it's actually a way of putting off a big dalek story til next year.
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 11:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
need multicoloured collectable daleks at start of series rather than end of series, as any BBC Worldwide merchandiser kno
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 12:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
Don't think they need the crack in time as an excuse to bring back the Cybermen, given that the original Mondas Cyberman are presumably still around somewhere?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 13:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
don't go there, sister. (here be raston warrior robots)
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 13:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
wish they would write out RTD's shite clompy Cybermen and their shite parallel universe and their shite fake Davros in favor of OG spooky Cybermen, but we already saw clompy cybertools in the end-of-ep-1 trailer.
SBed Mrs Chuck btw.
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 13:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
Female viewers: Oh, my womanly intuition allows me to notice that Amy's own womanly intuition has picked up on the distress of the lady communications officer.
Male viewers: ARE THEY GOING TO LEZ UP?
It could be that it's a '90s universe where they'd been stealing the technology from another, more advanced universe, or I could be getting my SF shows mixed up.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Thursday, 22 April 2010 01:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
The bit of Cyberman preview they showed looked as though it was in Stonehenge> I'm guessing there'll be some sort of Cybermen as Knights of the Round Table thing.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Thursday, 22 April 2010 02:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Silver Nemesis 2?
― JimD, Thursday, 22 April 2010 07:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also Amy fending one off with a flaming torch suggests low-tech.
― BTW, I'm frightfully middle-class (chap), Thursday, 22 April 2010 08:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
I've only just watched the Victory of the Daleks episode. Yeah, I thought Mark Gattis' shouty script was more suited to David "YOU BEAUTYYYY-AH!" Tennant, and the RTD era in general. It was all a bit breathlessly crash-bang-wallop, though I don't think Tennant could've pulled off holding the daleks at bay with a Jammie Dodger quite as well as Smith managed.
I loved the idea of the daleks being used as a WWII war machine, pity we never got a shot of them being used in a battle or anything but, hey, budget cuts.
Looking forward to the rest of the series, the episode that's intriguing me most of all atm is:
BIG SPOILER DELETED
― New Hors d'œuvre (DavidM), Thursday, 22 April 2010 08:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
uh please don't do that here
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Thursday, 22 April 2010 09:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
Deleted the spoiler, people can click the link if they want to know.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 April 2010 09:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
Too late, I saw it, need some sort of fiendish alien mind eraser to forget it now
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Thursday, 22 April 2010 09:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Episode 11 sounds like it'll bring the lolz though.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 April 2010 09:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
sadface @ spoiler
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Thursday, 22 April 2010 09:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
Best bit on that Radio Times link is where someone complains that Amy Pond saying "Oi! Churchill" is "not very respectful".
― ithappens, Thursday, 22 April 2010 10:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
Matt DC, a big fan of James Corden ;-)
i've no idea what that spoiler was - even after following the link :-(
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 22 April 2010 11:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
It was the synopsis of episode 7 that Steven Moffat gave to the Radio Times to publish. Not exactly a spoiler, unless you want to go into each episode knowing nothing (good luck with that).
― New Hors d'œuvre (DavidM), Thursday, 22 April 2010 11:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'm guessing it's a good thing that I don't know who James Corden is.
― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, 22 April 2010 13:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
You do: he is the fat guy in The History Boys.
― yes we kenya (suzy), Thursday, 22 April 2010 13:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy Pond saying "Oi! Churchill" is "not very respectful"
It's true though. I dunno - out of nowhere it's like Amy turned into some kind of bantering lager lout.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 22 April 2010 13:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
Car insurance reference?
― Is that your Ayrshire bacon? (Tom D.), Thursday, 22 April 2010 13:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hah, didn't get that but it's totally obvious.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
next season, an adventure with Admiral Nelson is a dead cert now.
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
the final regeneration
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
out of nowhere it's like Amy turned into some kind of bantering lager lout.
You'd expect a stripper to be a bit more comely and reserved.
― broad layering (onimo), Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
she doesn't strip, just kisses
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
all i expected is for her to be sort of the same person she was in the previous two episodes!
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
Maybe was a wee bit shy for a week or two as she's new to all this timey wimey malarkey and she's letting her true self come through now?
― broad layering (onimo), Thursday, 22 April 2010 14:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
I still haven't got a handle on any kind of definable personality for her.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 April 2010 15:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hey, she may have felt a bit self-conscious in prior episodes, what with gallivanting around in nought but her nightie.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
honestly i didn't have a problem with her in the episode, but if in fact that episode was meant for Tennant/Donna, that would make a lot of sense
sure she does
― Nhex, Thursday, 22 April 2010 21:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
Not exactly a spoiler, unless you want to go into each episode knowing nothing (good luck with that).
Thanks!
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Thursday, 22 April 2010 23:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
if in fact that episode was meant for Tennant/Donna, that would make a lot of sense
ooh that's right, RTD chucked this episode and went with "Fires of Pompeii" instead. I thought Amy felt off in this episode, that would explain it.
Speaking of filming order upthread, this upcoming two-parter was the first thing they filmed. It'll be interesting to see how everyone comes off.
― the international mooncake trade (reddening), Friday, 23 April 2010 01:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
Interesting. Definitely preferred Pompeii, if for no other reason but for that conversation at the end with Donna about fixed events and when it's okay to change history, something that's been basically ignored since the reboot started w/the exception of "Father's Day".
Btw, I knew practically nothing about this season until I saw the bits in the teaser after the first episode, so I'm still pretty in the dark - definitely appreciate keeping the spoiler talk out.
― Nhex, Friday, 23 April 2010 02:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
This episode and the last one have covered that ground a bit as well. Think Smith's Doctor will be a lot less cavalier about messing with things than Tennant's was.
Thought the Pompeii one was ropey, much preferred this one. Don't understand why Gatiss seemingly never uses Doctor Who to indulge his really dark side though.
― Matt DC, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Still, the opening few episodes are always pretty lightweight, we're approaching the point where things should get really good now.
Like...scary death angel statue good?
― kissogram powers (Abbott), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
("Yes, Abboitt." "ok thx.")
(^^^me talking to my animus what is named "abboitt," pretty stupid name but what can a lady do.)
― kissogram powers (Abbott), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
Not really looking forward to more River Song tbh. If she were just a shade less smug I wouldn't mind her.
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Liked River Song, and actually thought she'd make a good female Doctor. (Initially, I thought the twist was that she was a future regeneration -- has this plot ever been done?)
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, the entire Trial Of A Time Lord series.
― longer lasting, thicker electrons (sic), Friday, 23 April 2010 23:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think I'd like River Song more if she looked like Amy Pond.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Saturday, 24 April 2010 02:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
He who is tired of Alex Kingston is tired of not getting SBed.
― and ya thought that shit played out in ILX (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 24 April 2010 02:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
tbh i didn't like river song the first time around, but this stuff in the previews where she's wearing fancy sunglasses and floating backwards out of airlocks while smirking is pretty awesome.
― the international mooncake trade (reddening), Saturday, 24 April 2010 06:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think I'd like ____ ______ more if she looked like Amy Pond.
rule for life
― broad layering (onimo), Saturday, 24 April 2010 12:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
Well, that was bloody terrifying that was. Relentless psychological horror with some well-timed and very nasty shocks. It was like Caves of Adrozani crossed with Medusa crossed with Hellraiser. I need a stiff drink after that.
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Saturday, 24 April 2010 18:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Aiiiiiiiyyahhaaaaaaaa. Drinking now, scared shitless.
― yes we kenya (suzy), Saturday, 24 April 2010 18:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
The video of the Angel was a bit Ring, I thought. Awesome episode and one that really benefitted from the two-parter treatment. It was very pacey when it needed to be, but they had time to establish mood, plot and character. Cannot wait for next week. The preview looks terrifying.
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Saturday, 24 April 2010 19:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
also, Mike Skinner!
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 24 April 2010 20:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, that was weird. (Mike Skinner's cameo, I mean). This episode was next level greatness, despite River Song's smirking presence.The scene with Amy in the bunker (the Ringu moment) was brilliant.
― New Hors d'œuvre (DavidM), Saturday, 24 April 2010 20:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, that was great. Excellent cliffhanger that's not a cliffhanger (you know what the plan is, you just don't know what it does - much better than the 'oh, look what i've found' cop out).
After last week, the relationship between the Doctor and Amy is tops again as well.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 24 April 2010 20:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
I wonder if the lipstick will make an appearance again.
― yes we kenya (suzy), Saturday, 24 April 2010 20:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hallucinogenic lipstick is so going on my amazon wish list.
― kissogram powers (Abbott), Saturday, 24 April 2010 20:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
This episode was fucking CREEPY and TIGHT btw.
― kissogram powers (Abbott), Saturday, 24 April 2010 21:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was great.
― Bob Six, Saturday, 24 April 2010 21:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
particularly great was that the Angel used 'sorry' and 'sir' so much after hijacking Sacred Bob ("more like SCARED BOB now eh?" <3)'s cerebral cortex, as if assuming these were standard human terms rather than specifically those of an inexperienced soldier in this context. all rather reminiscent of the Data Ghost thing from Silence In The Library.
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 24 April 2010 21:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
Scared Bob joke was awesome – more wordplay needs to be built around anagrams.
― kissogram powers (Abbott), Saturday, 24 April 2010 21:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
Wow, that was actually great, what a pleasant surprise. Our kid was scared, for the first time in ages!
he who is tired of Alex Kingston is tired of not getting SBed.
― and ya thought that shit played out in ILX (Noodle Vague),
Yes!
― dead flower :( (Pashmina), Saturday, 24 April 2010 22:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
I didn't like that nearly as much as the rest of you, I suspect, mainly because I hated River.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 24 April 2010 22:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
I really loved this! Didn't recognize Mike Skinner until I read the credits though...
― ô_o (Nicole), Saturday, 24 April 2010 23:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
River Song really bothers me. But I have no good explanation as to why. Also found Pond slightly irritating this week. Maybe I was in a bad mood. May merit a rewatch
― VegemiteGrrrl, Sunday, 25 April 2010 00:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think what I disliked most about her is that in SitL there was a legitimate reason for her "shh, spoilers" thing whereas this time - even the way she said it - came over as smug and condescending as she continued to flip through her book reading them herself while telling other people not to. Like a hott version of Harry Knowles.
Lots of bits of this didn't work either.
The TARDIS materialisation/dematerialisation noise is not caused by leaving the brakes on, unless every Time Lord ever has been trained to do it that way.
River Song says she has pictures of "all of your faces" in her book. In which case, why the "Oh, you're so young" in SitL? if she knew what DT looked like and he didn't look any older when he regenerated?
"Sonic me please!" Moffatt has established in The Eleventh Hour that the sonic screwdriver is essentially part of the TARDIS and that MS got a better one than he had previously. So how come when RS has one in SitL she has an older, inferior one? Doesn't this imply the TARDIS doesn't like her enough to give her a good one? Also OH NOES TIMING PROBLEMS this also means she gets her own sonic screwdriver after she and the Doctor have split up and she's started adventuring on her own i.e. between this (where she's already on her own) and SitL (where she has her own sonic screwdriver). Does this sound massively likely for someone who is an annoying ex-wife, always calling in favours after you've split up by exploiting you? Unless he gives her it between this and SitL in her time to try and get rid of her or because he knows she'll need it for SitL, in which case why doesn't her "shh, spoilers" instinct kick in and she refuse to take it?
You can't have an army of Weeping Angels and some of the shots shown (particularly in the next week trailer when they're coming down the corridor) explicitly prove this as some Angels are in the field of view of the others. This would be forgiveable or could be overlooked if it hadn't been the resolution of the last one - that them being able to see each other is enough to freeze them.
Weirdly, the viewer appears to count as watching them i.e. they never move on 'our' camera. I can let this go in the interests of drama, but it's still not right.
Why didn't the angels just leave after they'd killed the monks rather than remain there to die? Nobody was left to watch them, and since they've been around since near the beginning of time they clearly don't need spaceships to travel the universe.
"Whenever an image of an Angel is created, it can become an Angel" - what, like the one on the back of your eye? That's recorded by your optic nerve until your brain processes it, and remains there until you forget it? Yes, it happens very quickly, but what is time on that level to a being that exists in the quantum?
Finally, to me the dead blokes voices over he radio felt ripped off from SitL. Didn't the Doctor even call Dave 'Dead Dave' in that?
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 25 April 2010 08:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh god yeah, worst piece of retconning for cheap throwaway gag ever.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Sunday, 25 April 2010 08:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
Loved the "trap" speech at the end, despite it having been completely spoiled in its entirety by the trailer for the episode.
Also glad that they addressed the one massive inconsistency that almost stopped me enjoying Blink: the angles being the "quickest beings in the whole of the universe" or whatever, but only creep up on people at the speed of someone playing What's the time, Mr Wolf. It wasn't a great explanation but i'm appeased.
― Slumpman, Sunday, 25 April 2010 09:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Weirdly, the viewer appears to count as watching them i.e. they never move on 'our' camera.
I like to think of this as a bit of 4th wall breaking viewer participation. They have used "video recordings" and full closeups in this episode and in blink and i imagine they'll do it a bit more next week.
― Slumpman, Sunday, 25 April 2010 09:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
I agree with all of aldo's complaints and still enjoyed the episode. I just roll with the gripes and enjoy my kids being terrified :)
TARDIS brake thing was terrible though. You'd get away with retconning some og vs nu Who but we've had The Master steal the TARDIS and "forget to put the breaks on" only a series ago.
― broad layering (onimo), Sunday, 25 April 2010 10:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
I still did enjoy it, though.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 25 April 2010 10:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
I need to watch it again, watched in a room full of people under the influence of some alcohol. We did all go "fucking hell, that's Mike Skinner!" at the same time though, which was nice and funny and reminds me that my mates are ace. I think all of Aldo's things annoyed me as well, but I basically still really liked it, was right levels of geeky and scary.
― ailsa, Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think this is why they all appeared to be decayed to the point of not having eyes or proper faces.
― Melissa W, Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
did nobody else just completely hate this:
an animated gnorton popping up in the middle of the doctor's "there's one thing you should never put into a trap" speech.
― koogs, Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ugh. I watched it on iPlayer fortunately. F' me, if I were Moffat I'd be livid.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
it doesn't help that their cartoon Norton actually looks more like Tennant.
think the complaints upthread are some olympic pedantry as usual.
she also said she needed the "spotter's guide" to know which order they go in. when she met DT she didn't seem to know if he was before or after MS (SITL dialogue actually includes "have we done crash of the Byzantium yet?" :o ). i'm going to handwave all this as 'she's got a bit of the ol' space madness'. hopefully she doesn't know what the 12th Doctor looks like.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
There are likely to be hundreds of well-earned complaints about the Graham Norton plug but I did wonder if it wasn't put there to flummox 'pirates'?
― yes we kenya (suzy), Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
who's pirating this tho when its on iplayer? bit unfair on non-brits!
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
Was thinking of people trying to watch or make a DVD further afield. Also I guess only the English got served with the Norton preview.
― yes we kenya (suzy), Sunday, 25 April 2010 11:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 25 April 2010 12:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
River Song's comments about meeting the Doctor in the wrong order surely have something to do with the crack in time and space? Therefore nitpicking about continuity errors when these inconsistencies may well be part of the mysterious timey-wimey story arc running through the season seems premature.
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Sunday, 25 April 2010 12:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
with the 'how come they can look at each other' thing, seems like the Lonely Assassins were a subdued/sensitive sort generally as they weren't snapping people's necks either.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 25 April 2010 12:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
Like a hott version of Harry Knowles.
I am never going to be able not to think of her this way now.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 25 April 2010 14:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
I thought this episode was absolutely fucking splendid.
― i would rather burn than spend eternity with god and rapists (chap), Sunday, 25 April 2010 14:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
lots of pics of new daleks in sheffield the other day:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=all&q=daleks+sheffield&m=text
dunno what that black one with the double guns is about though. hold does it hold its tea?
― koogs, Sunday, 25 April 2010 16:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Are you real?
― New Hors d'œuvre (DavidM), Sunday, 25 April 2010 17:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
No.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 25 April 2010 17:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
That is kind of a weird criticism, that they didn't break the fourth wall when they could have.
― Walter Melon (Abbott), Sunday, 25 April 2010 17:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
My point is that there's implicit fourth wall, when I don't think there should be.
In terms of my realness, is your doubt in that I'm prepared to handwave away errors, or that you don't think I should criticise errors in writing? (btw, I am not nearly the only one on the internet who has spotted this fault)
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 25 April 2010 18:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
It never made sense for them to not be able to look at each other. How could they ever exist as a race if that were the case? Why have faces at all etc. I'm still putting this down to the Lonely Assassins just being emo freaks with low self-esteem.
Now what would be really cool is if we see a drawing of an Angel become animated and materialise.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 25 April 2010 18:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
I've watched it again and none of the other angels besides the one from the ship have eyes. Some just have cavernous holes where their eyes should be, others just blank, eroded stone.
― Melissa W, Sunday, 25 April 2010 18:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
question is whether the radiation/energy from the Byzantium will restore their sight, limbs etc. and if so whether they'll then be able to congregate without visual shields
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 25 April 2010 18:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
Dudes, River Song is so not a future wife. She's a con-artist, there's something very weird about her, and the Doctor is going to really regret not looking in that diary. Thought the 'who or what is River Song' thing was pretty explicitly trailered in this.
She's either a con artist or a renegade Timelord with an axe to grind.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 25 April 2010 18:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Perhaps she is The Rani.
― Melissa W, Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah i started thinking that again but seems too obvious. interesting that Father Octavian would be willing to keep this secret from the Doctor too tho.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
also is it driving anyone else mad how much that guy sounds like a newsreader?
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
somehow not very scared or very interested in this. can't put my finger on it. oddly unengaged with the entire series so far. only some of it can be down to wailing baby/toddler shenanigans :-(
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hmm, con artist eh? That's a good possibility, what with her antics on the space ship (very Bond, that bit). The aside about not going back to jail was very intriguing too. Why did the church guys put her in jail? And why did they let her out? What do they know about her connection to the Doctor? Perhaps the church are religious maniacs who see the Time of the Angels as the Rapture, so they've got River Song to bring the Angel down from the spaceship.There's definitely something funny about her, but I think there still must be some timey-wimey weirdness involved...
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Sunday, 25 April 2010 19:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
"But they're all dead""So's Virginia Woolf, and I'm on her bowling team"
― New Hors d'œuvre (DavidM), Sunday, 25 April 2010 20:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
Which is maybe why there's dust and shite coming out of Amy's eye,what wit her having stared at one too long?
Loved the episode.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 26 April 2010 03:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
> what with her having stared at one too long?
he said later that it was because she'd looked into its eyes. think it was also in her imagination, like the stone hand.
so many rules...
i liked that the angels never moved when our eyes were on them. and think about the alternatives - some bloke in an angel costume or expensive cgi.
― koogs, Monday, 26 April 2010 06:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
There are likely to be hundreds of well-earned complaints about the Graham Norton plug...
Beeb apologies for crappy Norton trail
Why is the bbc behaving like a US channel even before Cameron and Murdoch Jnr. get their hands on it?
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 26 April 2010 07:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
in "blink" the weeping angels were all people in costume, directed to hold really still. i don't know if they're still doing it that way, but good lord is it effective.
also, if you don't like river song, it's p. funny to remember that someday she's going to be tending to digital children in a computerized tampon commercial for the rest of eternity.
― the international mooncake trade (reddening), Monday, 26 April 2010 07:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
They're still people in suits in this one too, which is impressive given the final effect.
Fantastic episode, by the way. Adored the pre-titles teaser too.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Monday, 26 April 2010 07:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
Glad they set this in a gigantic space labrynth rather than yet another identikit industrial spaceship.
The con artist thing sprung from realising that's how Moffatt originally wrote Captain Jack but there's something way way shifty about her. Also "ssh, spoilers" is an annoying catchphrase.
Angels that break your neck and inhabit your body is a good innovation though, because angels that zap you back in time are not very scary when you have a working time machine.
Thought there might have been something really obvious about the eye dust thing, like maybe Amy was wearing contact lenses that reflected the angel or something.
Amy-Doctor relationship really good in this one, I like how she's constantly taking the piss out of him.
― Matt DC, Monday, 26 April 2010 08:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Loving almost everything about this series so far. Lots of MYSTERY.
― Matt DC, Monday, 26 April 2010 08:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
Angel projecting image on her soul. At least that's my reading after that 'Doors to the soul' bit and reading about Ficino's theories of love and pneumatic phantasms early this morning.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Monday, 26 April 2010 09:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
To wit:
It is enough that someone looks at him: the pneumatic ray emitted by the other person will penetrate through his pupils into his spiritual organism and, on arrival at the heart, which is its centre, it will cause an agitating disturbance and even a lesion, which can degenerate into a bloody infection. In the opposite case, for instance when the subject is fascinated by the eyes of a beautiful woman and cannot stop looking at them, he emits through his pupils so much spirit mixed with blood that his pneumatic organism is weakened and his blood thickens. The subject will waste away through a lack of spirit and through ocular haemorhage
Weirdos.
Actually, ocular ghost stories are quite interesting - didn't Ringu also have an element of their being something fracture or wrong with the affected person's eye? Kipling's The End of the Passage also great for this.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Monday, 26 April 2010 10:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also like the way the Doctor calls her "Pond!"
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 26 April 2010 23:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Has a Holmes/Watson vibe (except that she's way smarter and sexier than Watson, obviously)
Good ep - best moment easily Amy's getting trapped in The Ring. Nice cliffhanger speech, too - good way to end it.
― Nhex, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 03:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
Just looking at that spoilery article, and noting the date on it... though it's been accurate so far.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 04:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'm not sure what you're talking about -- the way I'm reading this is that the viewers ought to see the Angels moving when none of the other characters are watching? That would be a terrible idea, because it sets us outside of the fictional world specifically as viewers, whereas if they don't move when we're watching, we implicitly become wrapped up in the narrative and thus IT IS SCARIER BECAUSE WE'D BETTER KEEP ON EYE ON THEM TOO. Like, I was actually doing Amy's blink-one-eye-at-a-time thing as she was getting trapped in the APC-thingy (and I doubt I'm the only one who got that wrapped up into it)!
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 16:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
I have enough faith in Moffatt to be able to write himself out of the 'how come these angels can look at each other?' corner.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 16:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
who's pirating this tho when its on iplayer?
people whose computers are utterly incapable of playing Flash video
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 16:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh i always forget about the downloadable version
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 16:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
disgusting savages
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 17:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
That would be a terrible idea
Agreed, which is why I can easily handwave it away. Doesn't mean it isn't a writing inconsistency though.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 17:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
didn't Melissa solve this upthread? only the Actual Angel has proper working eyes...that we've seen.
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 17:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
And the groups of Angels are only moving when the lights are out, right?
― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 17:48 (3 years ago) Permalink
Which does rather provoke the question of how they themselves see.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 18:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
Just a thought: that diary really doesn't belong to River Song, does it?
― yes we kenya (suzy), Wednesday, 28 April 2010 11:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
That's a good point. The Church guys seemed to know a bit about it too...
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Wednesday, 28 April 2010 12:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'm about THIS close to going down to Ladbrokes and placing a bet on who it does belong to.
― yes we kenya (suzy), Wednesday, 28 April 2010 12:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy Pond has kind of gone from hero to zero over the last couple of episodes :( Pout, pout, allure, sigh, be useless, make lame joke, pout again, sigh, get really scared, almost die, have brilliant idea written into the script for you, pout, pout, allure, sigh, duhhh, pout
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 28 April 2010 23:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oh that was great. I especially liked that Amy closed eyes alternately -- I was thinking Sally should have done that while watching Blink.
Pity about the brakes thing -- it would have worked so much better as a joke if she'd said "It's not supposed to make that noise; you just can't drive/u r doin it rong" and left it at that.
what, like the one on the back of your eye?The trailer has a bit with the face of an angel coming up in her eye, so I think that might become a thing.
Don't see how the fourth wall thing is an inconsistency: the angels are affected by anything living looking at them. We're looking at them, ergo they don't move. Are there any other things in Who universe that are similarly affected by a quantum-type "observation" but aren't affected by the eyes of the great british public?
― stet, Thursday, 29 April 2010 01:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
It was a great opening scene, but I seriously found it difficult to care about this one, or even pay attention. Not just because of Karen Gillan's MySpace style of acting but it was like... what's happening and why are we here again? Gallifrey runes or something? Oh I dunno let's blunder into a big cave full of the most deadly things in the universe armed with a bunch of flashlights that we know will go out and a bunch of guns that we know will be useless.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
Isn't that Dr Who tho?
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
I guess so, but this time around there was no sense of why any of it mattered. What were the stakes? Who knows?
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
I said to mr spacecadet "this cave is very pretty but why are they in it anyway" and he said "they have to make the planet safe so the human colonies can arrive, duh" and I still didn't see why they had to go in and not just wait for something to come out, but hey, it WAS very pretty
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Hmmm. Well I suppose one answer to that (but I guess it's not really what you're getting at) is that there's a load of humans living on the planet. (leading to that quite good line 'You're like rabbits! You get everywhere! I'll never have to stop saving you!').
Caring... well, I kind of wonder, not necessarily in your case, Tracer, whether the over-the-top end-of-everything-all-the-time, convergence-of-all-plotlines aspects of the later RTD/Tennant series might contribute to that.
As for the relationship between Amy and the Doctor, would definitely agree with you in the daleks one (and with people who pointed out the Donna/Tennant + unused episode nature of that one), but I thought the relationship was really good with the last one. I get a feeling of Amy and the Doctor both feeling their way round each other still - with Amy appearing more confident than perhaps she is (like after the Ringu moment) almost blase, like a girl pretending to know more than she does because she doesn't want to appear silly, and the Doctor trying to look after her but in a way that isn't too overbearing and doing this a bit cackhandedly (ie, in quite an unTennanty, lolEnglish sort of way). Amy's got loads of questions, but she can't really ask him, she's sort of found out that she doesn't get clear cut answers that are useful to her etc.
Writing that down, it seems like quite a lot to be taking from it, I realise, maybe too much, but I feel it's there nevertheless, and I'm enjoying it much more than anything between Tennant and his assistants. (Ecclestone/Rose was also quite good tho).
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
xpost sorry. trigger finger happy.
there's a load of humans living on the planet
Oh yeah. I completely forgot about that. Which is my point, really. It's not that there aren't technically high stakes it's that I never felt them. In "Blink" the stakes are purely personal but they're gigantic. Humanity won't be wiped away or anything but it just feels tense the whole way through.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yep, wd agree with that.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
Blink is unique for a Who episode tho structurally, conceptually. It's like complaining that Aliens lacks the tension of Alien (Moffat's used this analogy himself to describe the difference between the two WA stories).
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
Another funny thing was the Bishop guilt-tripping the Doctor about having to tell the dead soldier's families. What makes him so sure he's going to survive this himself ha.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
I quite liked the episode, but I had allowed Angels + River Song to let me expect something as brilliant as Blink and the library eps put together, and it was rather limp compared to that. Blink was always going to be a one-off (think I said upthread I was nervous about bringing the Angels back for that reason), but the library episodes were also pretty tense and compelling while much closer structurally to a standard plot, so I still had slightly higher hopes.
(Thought the colonies weren't there yet but were due soon - which doesn't actually change the argument on the thread, just shows that the "why are we doing this?" really wasn't spelled out, if it was all loaded into one throwaway line whose details are pretty unclear to me now)
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
In "Blink" the stakes are purely personal but they're gigantic. Humanity won't be wiped away or anything but it just feels tense the whole way through.
Yes it would, the Angels were after the TARDIS then they would have fucked up all time for all time.
― broad layering (onimo), Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
Didn't really give a shit abt that TBQH and it still felt tense!
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Can someone remind me what that thing was in the Tennant finale about the weeping angels being or being related to timelords or something?
― JimD, Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
The "you can't kill a stone" thing annoyed me in Blink. You'd think someone would at least try taking a sledgehammer to one of them.
― broad layering (onimo), Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oh wait, it was nothing.
Rassilon declared that the two Time Lords who opposed him (who covered their eyes in the same way as the Weeping Angels) were 'monuments to their shame, and will stand witness as the Weeping Angels of old'.
xp
― JimD, Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
According to the Doctor, "[The Weeping Angels] are as old as the universe (or very nearly), but no one really knows where they come from."
from wikipedia - can't find anything Timelordy there.
― broad layering (onimo), Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
I dunno, that line about the Tardis brakes -- quite a good joke, surely? And I also got the sense that Riversong was lying about it anyway, to show the Doctor up in front of Amy.
Best episode of the season so far -- thought (whoever said the opposite upthread) that it certainly matched up to Silence in the Library. Still not convinced by either Matt Smith or Amy yet, but that "rabbits" line did feel like a definitively Smith-ian, rather than Tenant-style delivery. A bit less snarky, a bit more sing-songy. I'm not sure that adds up to a whole personality, yet, but we're only four episodes in.
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 1 May 2010 08:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also, glad this episode wasn't quite as BREAKNECK RUSH as the last few. I like that Smith speed-talks his Exposition Moments, but I wish he'd enunciate a little better sometimes.
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 1 May 2010 08:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
Agree about the slower pacing being good. Though I found all of the episodes fun, everything could be such a whiz-blur that I often felt inclined to stop caring about the plot mechanics altogether. I think someone may have already made the comparison earlier in the thread, but they'd feel like those old Who four or six-part serials crammed into an hour.
― Nhex, Saturday, 1 May 2010 08:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
that's modern tv though - all shows eat up loads more plot than they did 10 or 20 years ago
― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 1 May 2010 09:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
Y'all know that was Mike Skinner off the Streets as the tripped out security guard at the beginning?
― my opinionation (Hamildan), Saturday, 1 May 2010 10:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
> that's modern tv though - all shows eat up loads more plot than they did 10 or 20 years ago
i find the opposite. things like flash forward have one plot point an hour and 35 minutes of filler (and 15 minutes of adverts)
that said, i've just watched the entire Sapphire and Steel and if that was any slower it'd stop.
― koogs, Saturday, 1 May 2010 10:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
wtf was that beginning bit all about tho? It had a pleasingly Avengersy feel to it, but nothing really seemed to come of it. One minute they were in a piece of parkland, the next they were in a spaceship. Parkland in the spaceship? Who were the dinner suited people? Who were the dinner-suited people? Maybe I should stop asking so many questions and just see if it turns into something I guess.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 1 May 2010 10:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
the park was a hallucination caused by the lipstick. thought this was great. the tux guy was the 'owner' of the dormant Angel i guess. why River was on the ship in the first place (other than to try and destroy the Angel before being detected maybe) idk.
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 1 May 2010 10:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ah, thanks. For some reason I just assumed the noisy birds were the hallucination and the park was real, which is a bit we tar did.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 1 May 2010 10:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
See, that's what I love about it.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 1 May 2010 10:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
Rewatched Blink last night (so great, even better than I remembered it), then this, in preparation for tonight. Even on second viewing there were some bits that went too fast for me to work out. Where did River Song get that book about the angels from? She says something about getting it from some old guy, then the doctor says something really fsat, which I listened to four times to try and decipher, but which always sounded like "and then you raped his girlfriend!".
― JimD, Saturday, 1 May 2010 10:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
tux guy owner of Angel.
meets femme fatale on shore.... they fly away in space ship.
they dance. femme fatale tells tux guy to hold on to something when dancing.
femme fatale sneaks off to burn words into black box.
that's where we come in and why tux guy and river are in evening dress.
I am guessing its a Poseidon Adventure-style ships banquet.
― my opinionation (Hamildan), Saturday, 1 May 2010 13:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yep, seems reasonable. Hyperwealthy art collector intergalactic travellers probably hold quite sophisticated balls n banquets. I'd hazily surmised something similar myself. Slightly confused by the 'Hallucinogenic lipstick? SHE must be here!' = 'Oh, I danced with you earlier' thing, but none of it matters, it just seemed so elaborate I expected a bit more to happen around it than them all blowing up their ship out of shot. I guess some of the story will be filled in as we find out more about River Song.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 1 May 2010 13:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
blowing up crashing.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 1 May 2010 13:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
Loved that.
Presumably the people who thought the points I brought up last week THAT ENDED UP BEING THE PLOT were ridiculously pedantic absolutely despised it as badly written. ;-)
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 1 May 2010 18:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
Watch for time being unwound explaining away Rusty's time issues in a future ep. It can be 2010 after all.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 1 May 2010 18:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
A rift in time that eats you and means you NEVER EXISTED is a bit Neverending Story but also very scary and the basis for what's looking like a fantastic arc to the season. So River kills the future Doctor at some point and maybe that's what causes the crack?
Love how it's all fitting together as one long story - next week's looks terrific as well.
Also loved Amy trying to shag the Doctor. If you're going to go down that route then making it funny is way better than making it drippy.
― Matt DC, Saturday, 1 May 2010 18:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
I liked the giant Victorian Cyberman ref as well. Writing the Rusty era out of the Earth timeline seems sensible.
― Matt DC, Saturday, 1 May 2010 18:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy not being able to open her eyes then tripping over in the forest = way scary.
Still a bit perplexed by the duck pond thing though.
― Matt DC, Saturday, 1 May 2010 18:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
Still think your view has it backwards. Up to now there was no fourth wall- we (well the rest of us) accepted the reasonable dramatic device that we didn't see them move cos that's how our heroes perceived them. Breaking out 'the viewers get to see it' was the powder he'd kept dry in your eyes (ahem) but just the creepiest thing ever to everyone else because at THAT point he's seemingly broken an implicit compact w the audience. Spooky and knowing and well timed.
Plus yes it does raise, in retrospect, issues of consistency. So when is it they can move again?
But I'm not of a mind to mull over that.
Finally enjoyed the ep! Slightly spooked by doctors sudden fiery outbursts now. Also by amy's sudden attack of lust. But enjoyable for it
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Saturday, 1 May 2010 18:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
No ducks duck pond will be like the bees in tate's season. Or the dog in the night that didn't bark
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Saturday, 1 May 2010 18:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
head hurts...so much to process
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 1 May 2010 19:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Again, so good. Time vortex memory wipe with energy sapping stone angels - what's not to like?
The whole relationship between the Doctor and Amy is perfect - completely agree with Matt DC. Obviously she'd fall for the Doctor, (he's flash) but at an immature stage of their relationship, and it becomes something to grow out of. Love his avuncular role.
The blind man's buff with the angels could have gone on a bit longer, or at least not ended with her getting teleported out I thought. Trailers for the next episode reveal a bit too much for my taste - you want to tantalise but not reveal, surely.
Anyone think the vampires look a bit like flesh versions of the angels?
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 1 May 2010 20:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
Good spot on the angels/vampires thing.
Amy completely consistent with her character btw, casting notes referred to her at one point as "the village bike".
I am thinking hard about River's diary and am now prepared to lay money it's this:
and she's just happened about it at some point, having never travelled with the Doctor at all.
In best Blue Peter tradition, she has just covered it with sticky backed plastic so he won't recognise it. The reason she knows "Hello sweetie" is a trigger that means he rescues her when she jumps out of the spaceship is because he wrote that it did, and the reason she knows his name is because the silly old fool wrote it in the "This book belongs to..." space.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Saturday, 1 May 2010 20:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
^^^^See, without all this fancy knowledge, I pulled 'not River Song's diary' out of my brain earlier in the week.
― portmantovani (suzy), Saturday, 1 May 2010 20:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, pretty fabtastic that.
Ducks, like clerics, went into the crack I guess. The pond didn't, so everyone still knows it as the duck pond, but they don't remember it ever having any ducks in it because they've been wiped from ever having existed.
What was the bit about Amy needing to remember something the doctor said to her when she was seven? Felt like that was going to be the key to curing her of her brain-angel, but then it never got referred to again (unless I missed it?).
― JimD, Saturday, 1 May 2010 22:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
it might not have happened yet...wibbly wobbly timey wimey!
― carson dial, Saturday, 1 May 2010 22:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also, what if it's actually Amy's diary? What if she's the doc's real future wife, instead of song?
― JimD, Saturday, 1 May 2010 22:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
He leaves Amy in the forest with his jacket off, then when he comes back to say "Remember what I told you as a child" his jacket is on again.
Wibbly fucking wobbly, that. Bet it's intentional, too.
― James Mitchell, Saturday, 1 May 2010 22:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
Pretty much normally bow to Aldo's fancy Doctor Who knowledge, TBH.
― portmantovani (suzy), Saturday, 1 May 2010 23:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
There are a fair few things that people are going "plot hole!" about that turns out to be v. meant. Like that a lot. xp
Was surprised there wasn't a more explicit answer to Aldo's thing about the army -- though at first glance I didn't actually see any of them looking at one another. Perhaps he's refined it to just be face-to-face or something?
― stet, Saturday, 1 May 2010 23:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
i was disappointed in this one, actually. the menace of the Weeping Angels, to me, was the idea that you had to strictly control yourself in order to stop them encroaching, and if you let them advance too far it was probably too late, etc. but here our protagonists were busy chatting and looking at other things while relying on the soldiers to look at them, so a lot of that tension was lost.
and then there were all these new rules why the angels wouldn't kill them being thrown at us in single lines of dialogue -- oh they've got the doctor, but they're distracted by the scary time energy so he gets away. idk the idea that the angels can get distracted by a larger threat diminishes some of that horrible, personal, eyes-open menace they had originally. and while i thought finally seeing the angels move was the best thing in the episode, the set-up of "so they think you can see them and you'll need to move so I've sent you some sonar, GO GO GO" was just crazy rushed.
― known glimmervampyr bobby patentleather (reddening), Sunday, 2 May 2010 00:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
I just chalked up anything weird they could suddenly do to the radiation they were feeding off, and if they were behaving like the soldiers we would have had angels forgetting angels existed, etc.
― portmantovani (suzy), Sunday, 2 May 2010 00:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
still not really getting how/why the angels moved and so slowly - distracted/panicked by the crack tho they were.
and how did the doctor get his jacket back?
i just handwaved that the angels never looked at each other face on. agree that the tension and their scariness became quite lost tho, with all the get-out-of-jail cards the doctor and co played against them...and why were they directly killing people again?
the whole gravity concept here was pretty neat tho, loved moffat's "TREES! and TECHNOLOGY!" thing coming thru so unabashed, Amy was pretty great throughout too esp. at the end ("THAT's what i've been trying to tell you!") and I was all WAUUU at both the Cyber King and duck pond references (but wouldn't the ducks have to have gone into the light of the crack to become non-existent?).
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 2 May 2010 00:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
Loved it loved it loved it.
Did he nip off, get into the Tardis, go off and do things elsewhere, getting a new jacket in the process, including revisiting a 7yo Amy (hence that bit in ep 1 where she remembers sitting in the garden as a child and hearing the Tardis noise), then comes back to the moment he left, says to Amy to remember what he said, and then goes on with River Song to the main flight deck?
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Sunday, 2 May 2010 03:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
Slightly spooked by doctors sudden fiery outbursts now. Also by amy's sudden attack of lust. But enjoyable for it
― Nhex, Sunday, 2 May 2010 03:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
<q>i was disappointed in this one, actually. the menace of the Weeping Angels, to me, was the idea that you had to strictly control yourself in order to stop them encroaching, and if you let them advance too far it was probably too late, etc. but here our protagonists were busy chatting and looking at other things while relying on the soldiers to look at them, so a lot of that tension was lost.</q>
Ditto -- the Angels approached the heroes far too often and allowed them to escape far too often, too, and even when they killed their victims, it was in such a mundane way (any reason they didn't just send their vics back in time?), that their menace and other-worldliness kind of vanished (see: Borg). Anyway, my suggestion: next time you have anything to do with Weeping Angels, wear a suit of mirrors.
Surely there's a connection between Amy and the ducks, i.e. Amy POND and Duck POND. And her being the most important person in the history of existence is a lot like Donna, innit?
I don't know why, but I really loved Amy's sneakers -- err, I guess you Britishes call them trainers?
lol @ ultimate retcon
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 2 May 2010 06:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
looked like converses with the logo ripped off. it will be funny to see how far they take this super retcon
― Nhex, Sunday, 2 May 2010 06:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah this was like Aliens vs Alien in the level of too-much-exposure-to-the-baddy
― stet, Sunday, 2 May 2010 10:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
> the whole gravity concept here was pretty neat
why didn't they bash their heads when they jumped?
― koogs, Sunday, 2 May 2010 10:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
ncluding revisiting a 7yo Amy (hence that bit in ep 1 where she remembers sitting in the garden as a child and hearing the Tardis noise)
Hold on to this thought...
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 2 May 2010 10:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
couple of things i noticed on rewatching the last two. in TTOA when River is asking the Doctor to do stabilise the TARDIS he appears to playing pinball, possibly as a means of looking busy but not helping her cause. in FAS at one point it sounds like he says "Bash you, Bishop" instead of "thank you" to Octavian.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 2 May 2010 11:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
I went back and watched bits of 11th Hour and noticed the clock in the kitchen when she's doing him a midnight feast - it moves all over the place, and not in a proper, linear fashion. Also, if there's a crack in her wall, it's also a crack that cuts right across the town and two of the things that are probably not really supposed to be touching are Amy and her fiancé. Just my guess.
Daytime, waiting Kid Amy could well have seen him come back and still be kept waiting twelve years for the next appearance, for some as-yet-unexplained reason. Originally I'd thought that she was one of those stubborn kids who would wait all night and into the next day (which she probably is, anyway), and that she was doing the thing that people do when they dream something noisy because there's a car alarm going off 100 yards from their house.
― portmantovani (suzy), Sunday, 2 May 2010 11:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
just watched that eleventh hour scene again and the clock shows roughly 8.30, 9 and 9.30 in order when shown so seems like normal time progression and the Doctor just spend an hour getting from apples to fish custard.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 2 May 2010 11:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
Think James is otm about Doctor going away and then another time line version of him coming back to comfort Amy once more and do his 'you must remember' speech. Because he clearly disappears with River Song and the Bashing Bishop, and he's presumably deliberately not shown coming back. Perhaps there'll be an episode where all the little aspects (the jacket, the clock, the ducks).
Just wondering whether this Pandora's box thing is the place beyond the crack, where the daleks went, where the weeping angels went, where the ducks went (and also all memory of these things).
It's brilliant that Moffat and his writing team have managed to expand the conceptual time trickery of Blink over a whole series, and equally brilliant the attention to detail (which gives depth and interesting little hooks out). RTD's stuff, later on, felt very frothy, but perhaps without as much substance - this series so far has been very much the opposite. Really is some of the best tv I've seen in a while. Love that it's essentially a children's programme as well - such imagination and conceptual mind-bending!
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Sunday, 2 May 2010 12:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
The angels have always fed off time energy though, even in Blink, so it stands to reason they'd be feasting off the crack, all the years ppl might have has.
Love all the theories that are coming out now, this hasn't happened since Bad Wolf and certainly not to this extent.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 2 May 2010 12:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
Agree (especially since Bad Wolf felt a bit cack-handed and simplistic).
Aaand if you don't mind I'll just finish that sentence that I absent-mindedly finished mid flow -
Perhaps there'll be an episode where all the little aspects (the jacket, the clock, the ducks) are tied together, almost as a seperate adventure, following interventionist doctor in his travels through the episodes.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Sunday, 2 May 2010 12:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
I've not read it... But there is a Steven Moffat Doctor Who short story called "Continuity Errors" that might have some bearing on all of this. All I know about it is the title (and the fact that it's allegedly brilliant) but from title alone it would seem fairly relevant. And he has semi-adapted one of his own short stories for tv before (see "Blink" for instance)
― Stone Monkey, Sunday, 2 May 2010 12:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
so it stands to reason they'd be feasting off the crack
Fnarr etc
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Sunday, 2 May 2010 13:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
Angels: just a bunch of crackwhores...
― portmantovani (suzy), Sunday, 2 May 2010 13:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy not really fully trusting the Doctor is the best thing about their dynamic, and you can't really blame her given he kept disappearing for five year intervals. Really so stoked to see where this going though - best nu-Who season yet certainly.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 2 May 2010 13:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
though dr-river seem to be having a relationship 'simply' in reverse, the premise of amy's choice does suggest that dr-amy is more tangled (timey-wimey). and judging by his non-who stories, we know how moffat likes to play formal plot games w interlinking characters/events.
if ducks that had been in the pond had never been born, then nobody would have ever referred to the pond as a duck pond too.
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Sunday, 2 May 2010 14:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
maybe only Amy called it the duck pond.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 2 May 2010 14:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Right, I've just ordered this:
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Decalog_3:_Consequences
― JimD, Sunday, 2 May 2010 15:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
so, wait, did i understand this right - did Amy Pond somehow hijack the time-warping past-erasing magic of the crack in her wall (and then carry it around with her thoughout time) because she doesn't want tomorrow's wedding to happen yet? and so the Doctor has decided to take her and her fiancé on a romantic holiday to Venice so she can reconcile herself to the fact that she's getting married and so stop screwing time up (and hitting on him)?
― c sharp major, Sunday, 2 May 2010 15:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'd imagine the crack is something bigger than whether or not Amy wants to get married the next day...
― Matt DC, Sunday, 2 May 2010 16:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
I thought this was great! Very little Facebook style acting from Amy Pond and I was pleased to note that in some circles "sort you out" appears to mean "give you a right good rogering".
I also thought Matt Smith was very very good. It occurred to me this time that age gives him a valuable ambiguity as a romantic lead - a little too young for Song, a little too old for Amy, so always maybe/maybe not just out of reach
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 2 May 2010 16:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
(Very funny meta joke as well with "I've given a lot of thought about WHO I want...")
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 2 May 2010 16:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yes, the whole thing avoided the whole misty-eyed, wobbly lip stuff that bedeviled Tennant, Martha, Rose - avoiding the wolf whistles and stamping from the teenage boys at the back as it were.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Sunday, 2 May 2010 16:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
Facebook, Myspace, settle on one pejorative, Tracer!!!
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 2 May 2010 17:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
wait... avoiding the wolf whistles?
― Nhex, Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think the reason Tracer enjoyed that scene so much was because it was like Hattie Jacques attempting to seduce Kenneth Richards, except young and sexy and with time travel.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
It was like Hattie Jacques attempting to seduce Keith Richards.
― New Hors d'œuvre (DavidM), Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
xp i have no idea who those people are, but i agree with tracer, good pt. about him being just the "wrong" age. and it is very nice to to have a female romantic lead who isn't so sheepish about what she wants... wolf whistle.
― Nhex, Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
Kenneth Williams...
― portmantovani (suzy), Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
avoiding the wolf whistles?
The Bad Wolf whistles.
Facebook, Myspace, settle on one pejorative, Tracer
Which website would represent good acting?
Having just watched the first part again (in prep for the BBC3 repeat of part 2) I have to say I thought Karen Gillan was pretty good. The Ringu scene is the standout of the episode for many, and it's Gillan who really sells the tension.
― New Hors d'œuvre (DavidM), Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
perhaps the duck pond was not for ducks but for ducking witches and amy is some kind of time witch.
Not very insightful analysis although this was a great episode, awful awful music again though. I could do without hearing that choir hit sample ever again.
I love this way of retconning without having to deny that any of the rusty years ever happened, in fact selective bits of the rusty years could still be part of the timeline. Got to wonder what moffat wlll keep.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Walk like you can see" was some bullshit imo. They can't move *when you are looking at them*, because of quantumy-wantumy stuff. Not when they think you are looking at them.
― the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
summary of Continuity Errors story for the curious: http://www.drwhoguide.com/who_dec3.htm
― s.clover, Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah that was actually shit wasn't it. And then she just gets teleported anyway. It was set up to be a nice little reversal on the standard Angels thing. You can't open your eyes! Yet the Angels will kill you if you don't look at them!! Oh noes!!! Oh actually, just pretend you can see. Really poorly. And that will be enough. It didn't matter though, which is a sign of a Good Episode I guess.
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
She had to move past them to get into range to get beamed up, surely?
― portmantovani (suzy), Sunday, 2 May 2010 18:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
I thought the teleporter was broken, and River Song was trying to fix it which the Doctor thought was futile.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 2 May 2010 21:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
reminds me of some of the amusing dialogue bits in the beginning like "i absolutely trust him" (Smith had a great facial reaction to this) and "how impossible?" "a few minutes"
― Nhex, Sunday, 2 May 2010 22:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah the Doctor's lines ran this e.g. "I've thought about it / we'll all be killed - see, I've thought about it", "I'll do a thing", "Ha ha I got him to say comfy chairs" and so on.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 2 May 2010 22:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Enjoyed this immensely... Def. like the relationship with Doctor & Amy. Didn't much like the way the story "yadda-yadda'd" its way through the difficult parts of the story... But it's a minor gripe against the great tension and building a pretty exciting story arc so quickly. Loved the forest/angels/Amelia scenes... The colors and contrasts looked fab! Liked snarky doctor. And loved the "sort you out" interplay. Ordinarily would be creped out by Doctor-makeout scene but that was pretty hilarious. Esp snapping suspenders on & off. Half expected his bowtie to start spinning, lol.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 May 2010 02:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
^ someone photoshop this
― Oh boy, Midgard! That's where I'm a Viking! (sic), Monday, 3 May 2010 04:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0By3KbtiGTysyNjA5YTMyODQtYjUxYS00M2ZlLTkxNjAtMmQ3OGMzMDQ4Yzgx&hl=en
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 3 May 2010 06:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
Sorry, have no idea how to embed that from Google docs
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 3 May 2010 06:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
ha ha
needs moar Pond pulling on his braces though
― Oh boy, Midgard! That's where I'm a Viking! (sic), Monday, 3 May 2010 07:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
Irritated by the angels never having to cover their eyes. In first ep, was happy to believe it was because their eyes were decayed and they were under strength or something. By end of this one, though, when the angels were in front of the raised shields, eyes open and all looking over each other's shoulders, there was too much suspension required - not of disbelief, but of things carefully explained in previous episodes and now just ignored. Not a patch on Blink, and nowhere near as scary.
― ithappens, Monday, 3 May 2010 09:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yes. Aldo, what are the insider sites saying about that?
― stet, Monday, 3 May 2010 11:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, sorry, just to clarify - I remember my dad saying when he was young and they went to the cinema on a Saturday afternoon, all the teenage boys would wolf whistle and stamp their feet at the back whenever there was a 'soppy' scene. Presumably this was partly out of juvenile embarrassment at the idea of Love, perhaps also seeing their hero unmanned, but also a critical reaction to the interruption of action with sentiment. I think the crucial aspect tho is the soppiness - Tennant + Rose (and Martha) = soppy, Amy + MS = not soppy - in fact Matt Smith reacted much as a young lad would (assuming a lack of sexual precocity) = no wolf whistles, just perhaps a certain amount of sympathy and a 'Thank God the doctor got out of THAT one, far worse than the Angels imo'.
Of course, this ignoring the whole 1,000 year-old literary history, of action + love = romance, but, in the words of Spector v Rector by The Fall 'The hero was a strange man, those flowers take them away - they're only funeral decorations'.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Monday, 3 May 2010 11:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Online community too busy convincing themselves the beach sequence was all about the Doctor having a crying wank over Rose Tyler, and gnashing their teeth that the Rusty era has been written away so deftly.
The ones that actually care are pointing out the inconsistency while the rest hand-wave it away in the name of good television.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Monday, 3 May 2010 12:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
LOL. How is beach sequence ever about that?
― portmantovani (suzy), Monday, 3 May 2010 12:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
They all reckon when he says "time can be rewritten" and has a wistful look on his face is all about him working out how he can bring her back. Obsessed, I tell you. Good job I'm reading it so you don't have to.
"Wibbly wobbly timey wimey" has become a mantra to explain any plot holes.
― THE QUEST IS THE QUEST (aldo), Monday, 3 May 2010 12:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
i read some amazing bit of the internet yesterday where there was wailing and gnashing of teeth because beach sequence apparently automatically means erasing of whole Donna Noble story. Which I had not considered!
― control (c sharp major), Monday, 3 May 2010 12:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
So that whole "oh this one's really just for the kiddies" stuff disappeared quick, huh? <3 Moffat
― stet, Monday, 3 May 2010 13:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
impossible that donna is erased - i, for one, remember her
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 May 2010 13:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
After rewatching my only gripe is how both the Doctor and Amy avoided the Angels clutches esp. the latter where you'd think they'd know better when someone's eyes are shut and why were the so slow (cool as it was to see them move)? Oh and how did he work out the date of the crack creation? Just by sonicking the crack?
Really don't want to see a whole bunch of RTD stuff written out of official history tbh - as daft as it got this would just devalue the Doctor's experiences further. And there is really no point doing this unless you're going to rule out further Earth invasions by Daleks etc. surely.
River's suspicious behaviour went into overdrive at the end, all that laughing plus Pandorica knowledge - presumably she'll re-appear in the finale.
― mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 3 May 2010 13:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Don't see what the problem is tbh - it hasn't been written out of history, it's been written out of a history.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Monday, 3 May 2010 13:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
ban this parallel filth
― mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 3 May 2010 13:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ha ha. Anyway, if anything it's this series that is the outside of history one - the Doctor still remembers everything, so do we - it's only Amy's weird world where there are no ducks and no memory of history. It's also a handy way of escaping RTD's grabby grabby attitude to plotlines of course.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Monday, 3 May 2010 14:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
I really don't understand the people who think Rose is the Doctor's one twu wuv, and think he's referring to her in every episode.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 3 May 2010 14:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
I really don't understand the people who think Rose is the Doctor's one twu wuv
The other version of him choosing to live and die with her in alterverse suggest she is.
To me "hmmm history can be rewritten" is pretty much Moffat saying that to himself - in other words anything goes and he can bring back anything/anyone we think is gone or wipe out anything he can't be arsed writing around.
― mierda defensa ... no impedir ... espectador (onimo), Monday, 3 May 2010 19:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
I am super mega excited for the remainder of this season based off of the bits I've skimmed so far re: rewriting history and the way the big threat is being established (neverending cracks in space/time, major catastrophic events not actually happening, etc).
"Victory of the Daleks" was kind of terrible though.
― DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMM! (HI DERE), Monday, 3 May 2010 19:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
limp dictory of the daleks. also, look what i saw yesterday, for sale:
― ampersand (remy bean), Monday, 3 May 2010 22:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
Best part of Victory of the Daleks was the wordplay possibilities it provided for my username.
― Viceroy of the Daleks (Viceroy), Monday, 3 May 2010 22:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
Worst part was the episode itself.
Which is why for a moment when I read HI DERE say "Victory of the Daleks" was kind of terrible though. I was like, "What is his beef with John?" :P
― This is four-dimensional art; the 4th dimension is incredibly powerful. (Abbott), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 00:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
so I just watched both episodes, felt as if there was a lot happening and not a whole lot of explanation as to why - flexible gravity, various deus ex machina that saved them from the angels, the angels letting Amy count down and therefore control the time of her death - I felt as if I was hanging on to the plot but just barely. Some terrific moments though.
― musically, Tuesday, 4 May 2010 04:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
flexible gravity
this was explained
the angels letting Amy count down and therefore control the time of her death
this isn't what happened. they were counting down THROUGH her in order to put the frighteners up her. this is explicitly stated.
various deus ex machina that saved them from the angels
crack in time was set up in previous four eps. teleporter was set up explicitly in the previous scene. Amy walking with eyes shut was some buuuuuuuuullshit.
― Oh boy, Midgard! That's where I'm a Viking! (sic), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 04:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
― WTF cat with unfitting music (kingfish), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 05:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
No-one seems to have clocked to the part where the Doctor claims Pandorum is a fairy tale and River says something like arent we all??
A fairy tale (time)rewritten by someone who used to write loads of stories about the raggedy doctor, who turns out to be the most important person when time (or stories of the Doctor) needs to be rewritten.
Sorry but I'm on some 4th wall, postmoderney-woderney reading of all this. I think the creating of a Raggedy Doctor fairytale by Pond will be the end of season make-it-all-better device.
rewriting Doctor Who timeline featuring a rewriting of the doctor who timeline = Mmmm thats good Moffat.
― my opinionation (Hamildan), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 11:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
The Doctor Who timeline has already been rewritten at least once - given that according to Rusty the Daleks and Timelords were destroyed throughout all time and space.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 4 May 2010 11:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
i like where you're going with that
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 4 May 2010 11:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
i really don't buy Amy Pond as a doll-obsessed closet fanfic writer though.
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 4 May 2010 11:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
perhaps that is unfair, however, both to her and to doll-obsessed closet fanfic writers everywhere
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 4 May 2010 11:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
at the end of the first ep we saw all her Doctor dolls near the dress, but when she brought him to her room they didn't seem to be around. Er, maybe the crack has non-existed them...
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 12:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Terry Pratchett considers Doctor Who -- but what will Dan think?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 4 May 2010 14:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
Dan thinks Terry Pratchett is OTM; I've never considered Doctor Who to be hard core SF.
― it means "EMOTIONAL"! (HI DERE), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 14:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
I sorta think - cue overloud challops music - most TV SF is not actually SF (including what I've seen of the Star Trek family, though I might give the original a pass on grounds of age if nothing else), but if you're going to watch an explosions-and-magical-fantasy-battles-in-space soap opera Doctor Who is one of the more interesting ones and has made me think about stuff even if stuff does not include science
(liked the article)
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 14:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think it's kind of funny/telling that he picks out a bunch of Rusty episodes to reinforce his point and then turns to Moffat/Cornell for the "but oftentimes the show is so great that it doesn't matter" rebuttal.
― it means "EMOTIONAL"! (HI DERE), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 14:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
PS I am laughing at the comments to that article going "Doctor Who is not HARD SF, I mean a STAR WHALE?" when the last book I bought which said "hard SF" all over the back turned out to feature... star whales
(though there was some vague-murmuring-of-physics pretext for such a thing, complete with numbers which didn't seem to add up to my non-physicist brain, in the book. which was not very good anyway. "Raft" by Stephen Baxter, should you care)
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 14:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
In other words, I agree.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 14:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
Whenever anyone mentions hard sci fi all I can think of is Roman from Party Down.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 4 May 2010 14:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
that is fantasy!
how seriously can you take the dude who defends the fairy episode from torchwood, though
― Nhex, Tuesday, 4 May 2010 23:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
Last week's was more a series of connected setpieces than a proper story. Fucking great setpieces, though. And I loved the solution to the cliffhanger, and how it was turned round to be the solution of the whole episode.
― i would rather burn than spend eternity with god and rapists (chap), Saturday, 8 May 2010 13:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ha, just had to switch this off after the pre-credit sequence because the 5 yr old was too scared, although his specific complaint was "I don't like it when prisoner zero is in it!", which was maybe a good call - I've seen people mention the similarity between these vamp teeth and the angels' ones, but I'd forgotten the alien in the first episode had them too.
I'll have to iplayer the rest of it after his bed time, bah.
― JimD, Saturday, 8 May 2010 17:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
It was fairly perfunctory, the plot was too familiar. Next week looks good.
― i would rather burn than spend eternity with god and rapists (chap), Saturday, 8 May 2010 17:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
Some good lines but a bit too much "why are they doing this dumb thing? oh look, a magic button"
(reception crapped out partway through so I may have missed an explanation of some of the dumb things)
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Saturday, 8 May 2010 18:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
Just occurred to me that the fish aliens had an almost identical motivation and back story to the big red spider lady in that xmas special.
― i would rather burn than spend eternity with god and rapists (chap), Saturday, 8 May 2010 18:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
more lols in this episode than any others so far - not bad for a alien refugee filler ep tho not as good as the Doc's last visit to Italy.
really intrigued by next week's.
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 8 May 2010 19:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Well that was a bit shat. Don't really like snarky self-regarding doctor striding around moodily - eccentric and irritable and fallible teacher is more my sort of speed. And the lolz seemed rather brittle. I'm assuming the aliens co-opted local watchmakers to construct the generator rather than do it with their fish fingers.
Heavily CGI landscapes always make me feel slightly indifferent as well, but I'm feeling under the weather so all the criticism might just be lack of pep. Perfectly fun I guess. I just didn't like Matt Smith much in this.
Next one looks amazing.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 8 May 2010 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Doctor had some good lines in this one, and I enjoyed Isabella's father wearing the stag party shirt with his breeches. LOL. Amelia's fiance wotsisname reminds me of Topher in Dollhouse though useless to the power of 10. A bit Ricky the Tin Dog. Hope they give him some more personality or something, he's a bit of a handbag right now. Episode as a whole felt a bit skipped over...vampires were good and scary for a bit, fish alien was good and creepy looking, but it didn't seem to go anywhere. Really hated the toggle switch on the clockwork. Naff. But the nightmarey parts were good and scary, in true Moff form. That green light was supercreepy looking.
Very excited for next week.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Saturday, 8 May 2010 21:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
Rory is from the Nicholas Lyndhurst factory, right?
― sharia twain (suzy), Saturday, 8 May 2010 21:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
Seems that way doesn't it? Dynamic between Amy and Dr seems a bit screwed with him - turned into two pints packet of crisps lols. Sure it will right itself tho.
― Remember me, but o! forget my feet (GamalielRatsey), Saturday, 8 May 2010 21:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
Keep wanting to call him Rhys, with the Torchwood-Gwen welsh pronounciation (rolled r's)
― VegemiteGrrrl, Saturday, 8 May 2010 22:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
think Rory is great but he and Amy don't gel as a couple really (maybe that's the point)
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 8 May 2010 22:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Lyndhurst! Totally.
Not sure how R got his shirt back but all continuity errors are now cracky-wack in timey-wimey mysteries. Looking forward to possibly finding out what it's all about next week, judging by trailer, though who knows.
A wise person once said on these threads that the main plot point of any Who episode has always been finding some reason for doctor and companion to separate themselves within first 15 minutes, but reasons are no longer needed as the Doctor now strides off every 30 seconds for no apparent reason and this week's idea of a cunning plan was "you go and do exactly what that other girl did to get her mind stolen and then, errr, oh, let's not fuss over the details"
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Saturday, 8 May 2010 22:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
this was a romp. it also brought the lols. liked the no reflection explanation.
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Sunday, 9 May 2010 01:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
The plot was a mess but it didn't matter because it was very funny.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 9 May 2010 01:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
Think this was a filler episode despite occasional good parts. This may have been mentioned before, but Rory has a very 'The Fall' member from the 80's-90's vibe to him, though I can't decide on bassist or guitarist. I am super hyped for next Saturday though.
― Mr.Prologue, Sunday, 9 May 2010 07:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
Whilst I can accept whatever hungarian castle they film robin hood in and some bad CGI matte standing in for Venice, the idea of an underground tunnel defies my suspension of disbelief.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 9 May 2010 11:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
that is a strange line to draw considering the episode was about fish from space who pretended to be vampires
― ampersand (remy bean), Sunday, 9 May 2010 12:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
underground tunnel in venice - has Indiana Jones been told?
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Sunday, 9 May 2010 13:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
Thought this was a good romp: no classic, but some fun dialogue and Rory is extremely likable.
Mostly, though, I felt like this was the first ep where Smith really sold himself as Matt Smith, rather than Matt Smith reading David Tennant.
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 9 May 2010 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
the above point is exactly what i liked about the ep. i really really enjoy when MS gets growly and enunciates slowly – it's actually pretty menacing, and a great counterpoint to the falsely blasé chirpiness of DT that MS sometimes channels
― ampersand (remy bean), Monday, 10 May 2010 00:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
"I've had enough running through corridors" or words to that effect - brilliant. Dialogue is noticeably improved this season.
― Not the real Village People, Monday, 10 May 2010 02:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
Guy who wrote this ep also wrote Being Human, which is full of excellent dialogue.
I especially liked the bit with the Doctor ruining Rory's stag night.
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 10 May 2010 05:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
I loved the pre-credit gag of not going 'noes vampires SCREAM' mix into theme tune. But crossing instead to the stag and an eventual awkward pause being the teaser end in its place
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 10 May 2010 06:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was an excellent awkward pause. Also, the first time this series I felt like the doctor was in actual physical danger (from being glassed).
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 10 May 2010 10:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also, the first time this series I felt like the doctor was in actual physical danger (from being glassed).
So did I. I wonder what happened when he jumped out of the cake at the wrong party.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 10 May 2010 12:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
the bit at the beginning where he mouthed the word "diabetic" when he was describing the stripper was note perfect and gave me genuine lolz.
Tennant couldn't have got that right in 100 takes.....
― my opinionation (Hamildan), Monday, 10 May 2010 16:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah I enjoyed this one, thought it had a bit more going for it than standard Nu-Who romp. Next week's looks really interesting though.
― Matt DC, Monday, 10 May 2010 21:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Did you kiss her back?" "No I kissed her mouth" made me lol.
― cajunsunday, Monday, 10 May 2010 21:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
Really liked amy's duckface moment too, good lol but also seemed like a nice little character touch.
― JimD, Monday, 10 May 2010 21:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
I liked the "oh I see what you did there" scene between Doctor and the vampy girls in the mirror, and the scenes between him and the fish queen were nice and intense without being too "come with us sexy doctor' kissyface corny.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 10 May 2010 22:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
ah, I thought he said "no, I closed my mouth," but the scene didn't read properly that way - thanks!
― Oh boy, Midgard! That's where I go Biking! (sic), Monday, 10 May 2010 22:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Tuesday, 11 May 2010 01:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
lol good grab
Agreed with everyone above saying it was a passable filler episode, but a lot of good Smith moments for the character. Liked the meta bits ("I like the bit when someone says, 'it's bigger on the inside'", "not vampires - FISH FROM SPACE!"). And next week looks awesome!
― Nhex, Tuesday, 11 May 2010 02:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, Matt Smith really uses his hands well.
I'm a bit surprised at the sudden love for Rory. Is he that much different from Mickey?
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Tuesday, 11 May 2010 04:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
He's Mickey but much more boring and buffoonish. And he's a paternalistic killjoy, too. Can't wait for him to leave.
― Melissa W, Tuesday, 11 May 2010 04:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
He's Mickey but without the risible panto acting and lack of personality of S1 Mickey
― Oh boy, Midgard! That's where I go Biking! (sic), Tuesday, 11 May 2010 05:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
Don't get me wrong, I didn't like Mickey either. But Rory is worse for dragging down a so far great season (S1 had more than Mickey to drag it down).
― Melissa W, Tuesday, 11 May 2010 05:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
I liked Mickey (eventually) though if I'm being honest I'm not sure how much more traction we can get out of the returning "pathetic ineffectual sexless boyfriend" theme - not sure if we needed a retread. Rory seems to be even blander (less whiny?) than Mickey started out. Neither of them are anywhere as good as Rhys.
― Nhex, Tuesday, 11 May 2010 06:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Rory seems to be channelling Arthur Dent rather than Mickey, I thought. (More Martin Freeman than the original.)
Also, surprised no one's mentioned his rat-tail hair in the next ep. (Presumably hilarious explanation.)
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 11 May 2010 09:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
There are a lot of Hitchhiker references in this series.
― sharia twain (suzy), Tuesday, 11 May 2010 10:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
I quite like there being a group of them in the Tardis so happy to have Rory on board for a bit.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 11 May 2010 10:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
Had a lovely bit of foreshadowing when I walked past Toby Jones, wearing tweedy suit, in Lamb's Conduit Street this afternoon. HE TINY.
― tweedledee and tweedledem (suzy), Thursday, 13 May 2010 21:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Rewatched this week's, noticed two things. 1) set in 1580 and Rory says "I'm getting married in 430 years"...so doesn't look like he and Amy are from the 90s after all. 2) It's a SCHOOL of FISH!
― JimD, Thursday, 13 May 2010 21:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah, I noticed that Rory/430 years thing as well. But still, wibbly wobbly timey wimey blah.
― ailsa, Thursday, 13 May 2010 21:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think when the Doctor's gadget told him the time the crack dated from it came up as 2010, but it was only onscreen for a splitsecond and I was kind of confused at that point so I may be mistaken.
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
according to tardis wiki the date is june 26th 2010 (season finale date)
― Nhex, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Some good ideas not particularly well executed. It definitely fooled me into thinking Toby Jones was The Master, as I assume was the intention. It reminded me of the despair squid episode of Red Dwarf.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
Wha? I absolutely loved that! Best episode since Midnight.
― JimD, Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
Jesus, I just checked who wrote it and now I feel really dirty for liking it.
― JimD, Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
I dunno, it just fell a bit flat to me. I thought the pensioner monsters were slightly pathetic.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Nah, making kids scared of granny is much better than making them scared of statues.
― JimD, Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
"And it was all a dream" used to get you marked down at school.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
this was more "it is all a dream and..." though
― joe, Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
Liked it very much.
― tweedledee and tweedledem (suzy), Saturday, 15 May 2010 18:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
felt like a short story in a virgin collection or a dr who magazine comic strip. well written for it. making that 2 in a row in that vein. is moff hoarding the PLOTs or what?
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I liked it. Didn't advance anything much, but it was fun, and the Dreamlord was well written.
(but also ledge OTM about the dream squid)
― ailsa, Saturday, 15 May 2010 21:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
I was kind of convinced for a while the Dreamlord was Cyril out of 'The Celestial Toymaker' when he was doing the whole "you know who I am" thing, because the guy was playing it just like him. Although there were a fair few similarities between him and the Toymaker anyway.
Also, isn't "all the dark bits of The Doctor's personality" actually... erm... The Valeyard?
I did enjoy it though, even if it felt like it was trying to be a sitcom more.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Saturday, 15 May 2010 21:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
Missed a great phantom pregnancy joke opportunity.
― tweedledee and tweedledem (suzy), Saturday, 15 May 2010 22:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
weirdly, amy's dialogue when rory died was practically word-for-word what gwen said when rhys died in the S1 finale of torchwood. they edited out the swears, though.
― if he wants to cry to the night sky that's what he'll fucking do (reddening), Saturday, 15 May 2010 23:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Dream Lord, huh? Was that some subtle call-out to Gaiman, then?
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 16 May 2010 06:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
It reminded me of the despair squid episode of Red Dwarf.
I had it down as 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind... In Space!'
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 16 May 2010 08:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
liked this, dug the concept and character development stuff. laughed a little bit at geriatric zombie menace. it's weird how though the plots for this one and last week aren't as good as the previous stories, it seems like Smith has gotten more room to stretch his legs because they're a little less plot-heavy - i really liked his performance in this one
loved that goofy "my poncho boys!" bit, seemed improvised
― Nhex, Sunday, 16 May 2010 11:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
weirdly, amy's dialogue when rory died was practically word-for-word what gwen said when rhys died in the S1 finale of torchwood
Gwen also had a non-pregnancy in Torchwood. I get a bit fed up with the amazing companion girls having dorky boyfriends who are blatantly written as undeserving of them and their amazingness then they have some big epiphany and realise that dorky boyfriend is actually ace (Rose/Mickey, Gwen/Rhys, now Amy/Rory). Also "I never told him I loved him" fuck off you big idiot, you've been married to him for five years and are having his baby, of course you've told him you love him. Haven't you? (yes, I know it was a dream, but she thought it was real)
― ailsa, Sunday, 16 May 2010 12:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
Thought Rory was showing some spine in parts of this one tho, which I agree is a good thing. Can't really work out what I thought about this, I think I'm with Nhex - I really liked MS's performance in this one, but the two plots felt like a couple of half-baked ideas, not-quite-stories, yoked together for the purpose of the concept (which was great - as was the character of the Dream Lord).
It was pretty dark as well - The Doctor says the Dream Lord is the person he hates most in the Universe, doesn't he? Sounds like post-Tennant guilt. The whole self-accusatory stuff was nicely near to the bone as well.
It also got rid of the whole Doctor/Rory thing with them sniping at each other about Amy quite nicely, and junked any doubts about Doctor/Amy relationship, which I think is entirely a good thing. So on the whole a plus. And I don't really worry about these episodes not advancing things much - a lot of my favourites aren't really series advancers - Blink, gas mask one, Midnight, er, others. I quite like stand alone stories in fact, although I don't think either of the last two were particularly amazing.
― GamalielRatsey, Sunday, 16 May 2010 12:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
And I don't really worry about these episodes not advancing things much
With you on that - I didn't give a shit about advancing things and big story arcs in the old (Tom Baker) days and my kids don't care now, they just want more episodes (though of course they like the wee hints that e.g. The Master's coming or Rose might come back or w/e).
Assuming Doctor Who is back to stay and will be around for years I'm happy for them to throw in loads of one off short stories or two part big monster things that don't necessarily have to have Bad Wolf or Dum-Dum-Dum-Dum or Oh Look It's The SAME Crack Do You See? leads stamped all over them.
― this skit is ba-na-nas (onimo), Sunday, 16 May 2010 13:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah WTF this was great, really drilled into the motivations behind the two main characters. The old people attacking were supposed to be a bit rubbish, I thought, although anything that allows you to get away with hitting an old woman in the face with a bit of wood on prime time TV is good with me.
The dark stuff was really great, the self-loathing Doctor is something they're going to run with, I think. It reminded me mostly of Turn Left, but internalised, about how the characters saw themselves rather than the future of the universe at stake.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 16 May 2010 13:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
Good underlining of Moffat's fairytale voibe as well, Doctor as Peter Pan figure preventing people from growing up.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 16 May 2010 13:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
There's that, and there's also the idea that in this episode, the Doctor's cracked. So no searches on walls etc. this time.
― cleggaeton (suzy), Sunday, 16 May 2010 16:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
Dunno, it was established that some of it was a dream at the start, so the ending didn't bother me, especially as it turned out that they were all bad tripping on the Doctor's fucked up space acid.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 16 May 2010 16:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
Matt Smith is getting really good, isn't he?
Another fun episode, but I'm still finding the characters slightly aloof. I don't miss the emo broad-brush-strokes of the RTD era, but there's a certain emotional connection to the show that I'm missing this season, even if the show itself is actually much improved.
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 16 May 2010 16:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
Really liked that! Didn't mind "oh, it was all a dream" seeing as we were forewarned but the space seeds did feel kind of a copout. But I liked the way the trailer last week showing what I thought was real life, Earth, circa Amy's time got me thinking this was the episode to explain everything, and in fact it was an episode which didn't explain any plot arcs outside the episode at all
also I liked that things the dark side of the Doctor dwells on clearly include mullets
(though yes, it was a bit despair squid - and the piles of dust on the playing field got me thinking of the first episode of Red Dwarf, where Lister asks "where is everyone, Holly? and what's this white powder I'm eating?")
― xylyl syzygy (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 16 May 2010 17:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
So are the reptile fellas next week going to turn out to be Silurians?
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 16 May 2010 17:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also made me think of when people got transmatted off the GameStation by the Daleks in the Ecclescake series.
― ailsa, Sunday, 16 May 2010 17:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
they are indeed Silurians chap (not much of a spoiler considering the thread title)
loved Toby Jones in this. still don't know about Rory/Amy but the whole 'night before wedding' thing does keep them and their plight interesting.
in the Venice episode the boss lady tells the Doctor to dream about them. In the next episode he does dream about another alien race in the same boat as the not-vampire fish - presumably because of being haunted by the decision to not help the last lot. but not sure if the eye-in-mouth aliens are meant to be a real thing or the Doctor just invented them for the purpose of the dream.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 16 May 2010 20:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yep, I wondered about that - yet another race chased out of their home by 'the silence' or just a dream of a race caused by the previous one? And yes, also thought Toby Jones was great; very entertaining.
― GamalielRatsey, Sunday, 16 May 2010 21:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
There has got to be more of him for later. Totally Valeyard, but I've never known a Scottish writer not to mess with jekyllandhyde, given the opportunity.
Can I just reiterate how shockingly ITSY BITSY TEENY WEENY Toby Jones is? Like under five feet tall.
― cleggaeton (suzy), Sunday, 16 May 2010 22:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
Agreed! Where Tennant's Doctor was all face-pulling and quirky tics, MS is mostly an unaffected, average guy who just happens to have a time machine.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Monday, 17 May 2010 02:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
Loved the pensioner-aliens. Come on, perfect way to drag in awesome Night Of The Living Dead moments (trapped in a house much? Lol)...and Invasion of the Body Snatcherz. Loved the dreamlord's snarkiness. Good ep, though the explanation was a little daft
― VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 17 May 2010 03:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
<3 the eggbeater/wine-opener thing...such a good effects throwback
― This is four-dimensional art; the 4th dimension is incredibly powerful. (Abbott), Monday, 17 May 2010 04:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
Huge fan, too, of the evil British Truman Capote dude. He reminded me of Q from Star Trek: TNG. I don't think anything has been better as a grown up for reliving 'scared of TV' kid-type intense feelings/nostalgia as this season of Doctor Who.
― This is four-dimensional art; the 4th dimension is incredibly powerful. (Abbott), Monday, 17 May 2010 04:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
He reminded me of Q from Star Trek: TNG.
YES!
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Monday, 17 May 2010 04:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
He totally reminds me of The Brain:
― Not the real Village People, Monday, 17 May 2010 05:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
I would just like to say that this was, as I think the expression goes, BLUDDY BRILLIANT. One of my favorite episodes ever.
Karen Gillan is still the weak link.
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Monday, 17 May 2010 09:35 (3 years ago) Permalink
That was great, I was getting ready to be outraged by the "but its was only a dream cop out" but then I was saved from that. I didn't notice a crack anywhere which leads me to wonder if we aren't still inside the Doctor's head. Have we always been inside the Doctor's head and these are just the mad dreams of McCoy's Doctor?
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 17 May 2010 11:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
I did post that I thought this episode showed us the crack in the Doctor, instead of one in some nearby wall.
― cleggaeton (suzy), Monday, 17 May 2010 12:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
no crack in Venice either - the Angels have temporarily nipped it in the bud.
― mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2010 12:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
Or Rory is like grout.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 17 May 2010 12:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
Pasty and somewhat thick.
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Monday, 17 May 2010 12:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
His Lyndhurst vibe is a bit distracting.
The crack in Venice was shown when the sun came out at the end, following the line of a receding cloud. And then came the timey-wimey mute button and the Tardis keyhole that looked like the crack on its side.
― cleggaeton (suzy), Monday, 17 May 2010 12:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
I get a bit fed up with the amazing companion girls having dorky boyfriends who are blatantly written as undeserving of them and their amazingness then they have some big epiphany and realise that dorky boyfriend is actually ace (Rose/Mickey, Gwen/Rhys, now Amy/Rory). Also "I never told him I loved him" fuck off you big idiot, you've been married to him for five years and are having his baby, of course you've told him you love him. Haven't you? (yes, I know it was a dream, but she thought it was real)
This is OTM. I desperately want to chalk this all up to the fact that it has to do with Amy Pond, who is played by Karen Gillan, but it's all in the script, isn't it.
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Monday, 17 May 2010 16:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
Don't get your Karen/Amy hate. She's been less annoying than previous companions so far.
― mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2010 16:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
She does this very self-conscious pout thing that is a dead ringer for every vapid Facebook photo ever. It drives me up the wall. Happy to accept that this is my own personal thing.
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Monday, 17 May 2010 16:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
No, I don't like her either.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Monday, 17 May 2010 16:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
I do like her, I just don't like the amazing girl/dorky boy meme.
― ailsa, Monday, 17 May 2010 16:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
I never thought Mickey was dorky but Rory definitely is. If Amy really does end up marrying him it will be a bit sad.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 17 May 2010 17:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
Mickey was quite cowardly but became brave. Rory can at least score points with medical knowledge - when the sonic screwdriver isn't healing wounds in seconds. I was hoping they'd be able to explore Amy's former 'craziness' more wrt Doctor obsession when younger. Possibly the crack in her wall came because of her subsequent contact with the Doctor - the cracks latching on to Timelord energy (he could be causing the cracks both after and before he appears at the same location). Paradox tho innit.
― mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2010 17:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
She does this very self-conscious pout thing that is a dead ringer for every vapid Facebook
Yeah, but this is what makes her realistically of her generation. 20ish girls just do that now, don't they? I see them doing it on trains and things.
Trying to decide whether I should watch/rewatch all the silurain/sea devil stories this week in preparation for next week's episode. Tried watching the Pertwee silurian story a couple of months back and got bored about two episodes in (it's a six parter).
― JimD, Monday, 17 May 2010 20:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh that story goes on for days and days
you are better off watching "The Sea Devils"; it's shorter, has more action and features the Master
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Monday, 17 May 2010 20:18 (3 years ago) Permalink
I couldn't sit through Silurians either. Sea Devils ain't bad, though certainly not one of Pertwee's best. I bloody loved Warriors of the Deep when it first aired, I must've been six or seven. I haven't watched it since, but I understand it has a reputation as being particularly risible.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Monday, 17 May 2010 20:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, have seen and liked Sea Devils, will probably give that another spin. And yep, I should give Warriors of the Deep a chance too.
― JimD, Monday, 17 May 2010 20:26 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Warriors of the Deep" is let down by some terrible, terrible production values and acting, but if you get past that it is a really shocking, brutal story and forecasts Tegan's departure pretty well; in fact, looking at that season, you have this really amazing arc where the stories kind of escalate to "Resurrection of the Daleks" and Tegan's freakout makes total since, given that she'd just recently seen:
- one of her (admittedly hyper-annoying) friends die- another one of her friends almost die, leading to her deciding to leave the TARDIS- a total frenemy join the crew who spends most of his time running away from things and advocating that they let the Doctor die (btw this is one of the greatest/funniest things about "Warriors of the Deep"; I think Turlough shouts "Leave him, Tegan! He's dead!" about the Doctor like 5 times in a 4 episode story)- a series of adventures where either everyone around her gets slaughtered or people from her childhood are threatened
No matter how silly some of the stories are, there is a grim, relentless pace from that season ("Warriors of the Deep", "The Awakening", "Frontios", "Resurrection of the Daleks", "Planet of Fire", The Caves of Androzani") that I still remember as breathtaking whenever I think back on it.
But yeah, "Warriors" is super-goofy at the end of the day. If you aren't laughing at the Myrka, you're doing it wrong.
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Monday, 17 May 2010 20:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
a total frenemy join the crew who spends most of his time running away from things and advocating that they let the Doctor die (btw this is one of the greatest/funniest things about "Warriors of the Deep"; I think Turlough shouts "Leave him, Tegan! He's dead!" about the Doctor like 5 times in a 4 episode story)
This is why I heart Turlough.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 17 May 2010 20:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
I've said this before but Tegan and Turlough are two of my favorite companions of all time.
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Monday, 17 May 2010 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
They really are great, and just on an aesthetic level Tegan's 80s hair and clothes have brought me many lulz.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 17 May 2010 20:58 (3 years ago) Permalink
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Monday, 17 May 2010 21:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
i looked up that song and apparently it was the theme song for one of those Flavor of Love spinoff reality shows? catchy tho
i probably need to see more but i didn't really like the one or two Davison stories I saw, didn't warm to those two companions
― Nhex, Monday, 17 May 2010 21:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
Davison probably suffers a lot if you didn't grow up with him; too many of his stories don't know what to do with all of his companions, so you end up with things like Nyssa taking a nap for the entirety of "Kinda".
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Monday, 17 May 2010 21:42 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ha, wasn't she supposed to have been sacked by the time that was filmed though?
― JimD, Monday, 17 May 2010 22:31 (3 years ago) Permalink
Did they really have four companions at that stage? That seems to be overkill...
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 08:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
and a bit crowded in the TARDIS - it's not *that* much bigger on the inside when you all hang around the same wee control room every day.
― this skit is ba-na-nas (onimo), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 09:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
I remember at least one scene taking place in Adric's room, so at least they had their own rooms.
― treefell, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 09:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
Speaking of wee, does the Tardis have a toilet?
Yeah, but this is what makes her realistically of her generation. 20ish girls just do that now, don't they?
I don't know why it took so long for this to occur to me.
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 09:29 (3 years ago) Permalink
Getting back to the last episode it showed up how good the new Tardis set is, lots of different levels to run around on, the Doctor down underneath the control console, etc.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 09:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also perving:
― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 09:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
I do wonder what would have happened if Amy had chosen the Doctor over Rory -- I know if it had been Rose, she would have brushed off Mickey dying and would have pushed to be with the Doctor forever. He probably would have kicked them both off of the Tardis, wouldn't he?
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 11:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
I quite like The Silurians, but it's very heavy going. On the other hand, there aren't many of the heavy handed modern political allegories that aren't - Global Warming DO YOU SEE all the Army are violent thugs DO YOU SEE.
Ingrid Pitt's Kung Fu Kick is my favourite thing about WotD. That, and the resigned look the Wet Vet gives to camera then goes "Oh no, it's the Myrka..."
Tegan/Adric/Nyssa are my least favourite companions of them all, particularly since because they know there's too many people one of them always has to be off doing something else. One of the best examples is maybe Terminus where, despite being Nyssa's last story she spends nearly all of it shut away in a room recovering from a disease she suddenly catches. I watched Traken/Logopolis/Castrovalva over the weekend and came to the realisation I maybe hate Tegan more than Adric, she's just so fucking smug. And whiny.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 12:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
I don't know, I think if I was trying to get to work and some random alien killed my aunt and then another random alien accidentally kidnapped me, I would do some whining.
Adric is totally unforgivable though.
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 13:34 (3 years ago) Permalink
What was the point of that kid, anyway? He makes Wesley Crusher look like Han Solo.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 13:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think they were trying to go back to the interpersonal dynamics of the original TARDIS crew, only with certain things inverted like the Doctor looking/acting much younger, everyone in the crew effectively being an orphan, an slightly older woman who wants to leave with two younger kids who want to stay rather than a slightly older couple who wants to leave with a younger girl who wants to stay, etc etc etc.
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 13:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Anyone else think the SoftMints man has a passing resemblance to Matt Smith - in clothes, expression and general manner?
― Hang Parliament (DavidM), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 19:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
RUMBLED.
In other news, a colleague has revealed that he was the stylist for all of Karen Gillan's BBC publicity stills. She is apparently dating someone who works in fashion (I think a graphics guy).
― cleggaeton (suzy), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
"He makes Wesley Crusher look like Han Solo"
only wesley never died pointlessly trying to be cleverer than he was. CURSES. *roll silent credits*
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
that happened to be the ONLY Adric story I saw, what a tool
― Nhex, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 21:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
Real talk: killing Wesley Crusher would have made me definitively decide TNG > TOS
― Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 21:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
I DO NOT APPROVE OF ALL YOUR ADRIC HATES.
― JimD, Wednesday, 19 May 2010 06:06 (3 years ago) Permalink
In case any of you haven't seen this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/doctorwho/
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 20 May 2010 13:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
So, apparently the Clerics from the Weeping Angels story might be really really really REALLY important?
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Saturday, 22 May 2010 11:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
The last 10 minutes of this is Eps 3-5 of The Silurians. And I hate Amy.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Saturday, 22 May 2010 17:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
BBC ethnicity conspiracy junkies ahoy today, can't refuse Meera Syal a shot in the TARDIS.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Saturday, 22 May 2010 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
Also LOL Scottish Silurian.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Saturday, 22 May 2010 17:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
And I hate Amy.
My man!
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 22 May 2010 19:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, need to see the rest of it, liked quite a lot of specific moments in this week's but wasn't impressed by the Silurian hostage, who was totally alien-by-numbers (looked much better before the mask came off). Weird pacing too, seemed to last ages. Don't really give a shit on the "one of you is going to kill me" side of things, three pretty uninteresting characters to choose from. Liked the big underground city lots though.
― JimD, Saturday, 22 May 2010 22:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
anyone who dislikes this needs their heads examined. Matt Smith is amazing. Shuttling sea devils in a graveyard behind a kid gone to fetch something = classic nightmare material. People being dragged into the earth = classic nightmare material. Rory excellent. Don't get the Amy dislike in the slightest - bolshie but ultimately slightly frightened but not going to show it lass. This was classic comic book material culminating in a massive subterranean city. What the hell's wrong with you lot?
― GamalielRatsey, Saturday, 22 May 2010 23:38 (3 years ago) Permalink
Boo to the Amy haters.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 23 May 2010 02:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
This is just like when Tracer hated Discovery.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 23 May 2010 03:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
The old man is going to be the killer, isn't he? He's probably been wounded by some mind-control reptile venom.
Given the beginning, I'd kind of hoped that Rory would've had his own b-plot in which he has to deal with and solve his own separate mystery as a way to pull himself up nearer the Doctor's level.
<3 <3 <3 the Doctor asking the mom nicely to put away the weapons.
tbh I can kind of get the Amy hate; as little screen time as she got this episode, she was kind of uncharismatic and unlikeable. A bit too one note with the sassy bluster, perhaps.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 23 May 2010 05:39 (3 years ago) Permalink
considering that this reveal doesn't happen until 36 minutes into a 43 minute episode, it's a massive bloody spoiler, fuck off!
^ was reading the last-week bits of the thread immediately before watching the episode :(
― the standing cat (sic), Sunday, 23 May 2010 08:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Thought they could have done a bit more with the scary stuff - corpses disappoearing, holes in the ground that eat you, darkness suddenly descending, all A+ Ideas but not brilliantly put together, felt a bit sub-Mofatt. The kid was great though, Silurian a bit rubbish.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Sunday, 23 May 2010 10:20 (3 years ago) Permalink
Thought the dissection reveal was a bit bungled as well. Maybe the whole episode was toned down a bit, it could easily have been deemed too scary.
I like Amy, especially her weird mix of take-the-piss-out-of-the-Doctor flirtatiousness and her weird belligerent entitlement issues. She's better than Martha and Donna, not as good as Rose in her first season though.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Sunday, 23 May 2010 10:37 (3 years ago) Permalink
Thought the dissection reveal was a bit bungled as well.
yeah - it should have been horrible and was just kind of... perfunctory.
The old man is so obviously 'the one who'll be the killer' that I can't but hope it's not him. My dearest hope is that it'll be the first time on telly that an enemy has said 'i know which one of you kills me~' and then no-one does.
― i can't turn my face into a book (c sharp major), Sunday, 23 May 2010 10:44 (3 years ago) Permalink
I haven't seen it yet, but A bit too one note with the sassy bluster is like ding ding ding ding
Better than Donna? bwahahahahaha. No.
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 23 May 2010 10:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
Apparently the production team were getting concerns towards the end of filming that Amy was just a series of one-liners and people would have trouble liking her.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 23 May 2010 10:59 (3 years ago) Permalink
An awful lot of rumours that you will need to watch last night's Confidential to see a deleted scene from the episode in it for the rest of the series (and, in fact, the parts of previous episodes that relate to the series arc) to make sense.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
If so, that's a colossal botch.
― GamalielRatsey, Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
that sounds like the usual cobblers
Amy's sassy bluster > Donna's sassy bluster
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
The thing that's been driving me nuts through this is how 40-45 minute episode length mean we get less of the development/expository stuff Aldo is talking about; no wonder some are complaining the characters lack a certain...dimensionality.
Matt Smith is very good but he is following an actor who was a total geek spod about the role, borne of being a total geek spod about the series when he was a kid - and it shows.
― when the fertilizer hits the ventilator (suzy), Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:24 (3 years ago) Permalink
Without being too spoilery, it helps explain why the Amy & Rory from the Dream World in the last episode are on the hillside waving to them and will be required to explain what's supposedly going to happen next week (or at least how it can happen while everything else does).
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:30 (3 years ago) Permalink
Somebody on OG has expressed pretty well the problems I have with Amy:
My issue with Amy is that Moffat has created a good skeleton for a character arc. The young girl obsessed with the Doctor who never really grew up, who now faces a choice of growing up or continuing to live in her childhood fantasy. That's a pretty good story, it can take you to interesting places, and in theory it should be great.The problem is, it's as if Moffat just couldn't be bothered to fill in the rest. He left it as a structure, a skeleton. Between the points of her character development across the series, she just wanders around spouting off one-liners, not seeming particularly engaged with her surroundings. So while the structure is there, the actual character isn't.Character is more than just a backstory, or a structured "arc". It's writing someone who is believable as a living, breathing person, who reacts to things, who has hopes and dreams, opinions ... who just feels real (see Rose, Martha, Donna). And Amy doesn't feel real. Away from the character arc, she seems little more than a character designed to appeal to the most basic likes of sci-fi fans - "wit" and a short skirt. Dull dull dull.
The problem is, it's as if Moffat just couldn't be bothered to fill in the rest. He left it as a structure, a skeleton. Between the points of her character development across the series, she just wanders around spouting off one-liners, not seeming particularly engaged with her surroundings. So while the structure is there, the actual character isn't.
Character is more than just a backstory, or a structured "arc". It's writing someone who is believable as a living, breathing person, who reacts to things, who has hopes and dreams, opinions ... who just feels real (see Rose, Martha, Donna). And Amy doesn't feel real. Away from the character arc, she seems little more than a character designed to appeal to the most basic likes of sci-fi fans - "wit" and a short skirt. Dull dull dull.
Also some others have looked at her dialogue and it's something like 70% questions, 25% zings and 5% for the rest, and most of that is whinging at The Doctor because he's done something that inconveniences her.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:47 (3 years ago) Permalink
I wouldn't surprised if those ratios were pretty much the same for other companions, though, surely? Donna was like 90% zings and she was awesome. I mean,
is just nonsense. Donna clearly couldn't give a fig about most of what the Doctor was on about, which gave her this enormous leeway to just be unimpressed by him, which, when you're talking about someone as self-regarding as the Doctor, guarantees instant hilarity (AND makes the Doctor have to try to explain better to her - and to himself - why things matter).
Anyway, there's no accounting for taste in companions so I'll leave my save-a-Donna efforts here for the moment I guess.
I don't particularly care that Amy has a great backstory that's just been left in a rucksack by the door (I didn't give a shit about Donna's backstory, or Martha's, or Rose's). I think what bugs me about Amy is that if Moffatt "couldn't be bothered to fill in the rest", it's the actor's job to do that, to make the character feel real.
What does it seem like Amy wants?
What's her response to the fact that a magical character she spent her entire childhood writing stories about has turned out to be real?
Sassy zings?
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 23 May 2010 13:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
Realised a massive fuck up in last night's - they start drilling because of the blue grass, which is caused by the Silurians drilling upwards. Except the Silurians don't start drilling until after the humans have, because it's that that wakes them up. Oops.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 23 May 2010 14:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Deleted scene here: http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2010/05/hungry-earth-deleted-scene.html
btw, no fucking way is that "dressed for Rio". She was wearing tights! and a wool jumper!
This was the first episode where I understood the dislike for Amy, she was really bloody annoying. I don't get her relationship with Rory at all.
xpost WIBBLY WOBBLY TIMEY WIMEY!
― ailsa, Sunday, 23 May 2010 14:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
Old school Silurians were weirder and creepier. This was generally fine though, if a tad unimaginative. A definite Pertwee vibe - reminiscent of The Green Death as well as its obvious precedents. The final reveal was good.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 23 May 2010 14:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Old school Silurians also went and hid in an emergency shelter station in Derbyshire because they thought an asteroid was going to hit the Earth. Not in a giant fucking city a hundred miles or so away.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 23 May 2010 14:52 (3 years ago) Permalink
This series hasn't quite lived up to its promise for me. Nothing has topped the first episode. None of which is Smith's fault, incidentally, he's doing a great job.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 23 May 2010 14:54 (3 years ago) Permalink
That may be partly down to Moffat's general superiority tho - I rate the Angels story as highly as the opener now.
Matt DC OTM about Amy and that's why I find her less annoying than Donna in terms of behaviour, background and purpose. I never really care about the companion that much tho (and the specials last year pretty well without the usual regular companion dynamic) so in a way am glad that Amy's deal hasn't been explored in more detail so far despite the strong foundation being laid by Moff at the start.
A lot of the time my favourite bits come from when the Doctor is on his own having the inevitable spar with the villain or talking to the minor characters. Companions 'humanise' and ground situations which is fine and probably necessary but not why I watch. RTD often seemed more interested in the companions than the Doctor and liked to mess with the heroism hierarchy accordingly. He gave Rose and Donna greater powers than the Doctor in the most crucial situations and I never really liked that (maybe just because it was pretty desperate DEM) and sometimes their stories/issues were just too overblown and clogged things up rather than enriched proceedings.
Hope Moff isn't planning similar thing with Amy ie giving her godlike status if only temporarily. For now surely the point with her is that she doesn't know what she wants, and she doesn't necessarily know how she should deal with the Doctor coming back - her believability comes thru this well enough imo and she's as solid/foreground as I prefer a companion to be.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 23 May 2010 16:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
I can see the first part, that she's just a skeleton, but I actually don't mind if a character is a cipher. It's the latter part -- "not seeming particularly engaged with her surroundings" -- that's wearing thin on me. In small doses, Amy as an obvious plolt device, with the zinging and the whatnot, is fine, but if it carries on too long, she just becomes this disengaged free-floating Hand of the Writer creature -- too unintentionally meta, I think. At the very least, I'd like a change of pace.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 23 May 2010 18:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
I'm guessing that since Amy was dissapeared for most of this episode, presumably to give Karen Gillian some time off, there will be much more Amy next episode and much less of the Doctor. It's a shame if this is the way they are handling breaks for the actors because I really enjoyed "Blink" and "Love and Monsters".
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 23 May 2010 18:56 (3 years ago) Permalink
I read elsewhere this wasn't actually the Amy-light episode (even though she wasn't in it as much as she could have been), there's one of those coming up later. Also read that there isn't going to be a Doctor-light one, which is a shame, because Turn Left did excellent things with Donna, and we could maybe do with an Amy-centric one to do similar.
― ailsa, Sunday, 23 May 2010 19:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
think Amy's Choice did that to a fair extent - only companion to get into an episode title after all.
i liked the novelty of the Doctor taking a second TARDIS trip within the episode and with a passenger.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 23 May 2010 19:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
Am I the only one who thinks that Ambrosia or whatever the boy's mum's name is will be the one to kill the Silurian? Her weapons gathering moment with the Doctor felt like a signpost, plus the fact that Silurans have taken her husband and her son...I get the feeling she's gonna blow her top. Not that any if them except the boy were terribly interesting to begin with.
Re Amy: my biggest problem with her is she is either a) glib or b) flirtatious. Alone in the forest with the weeping angels was as close as she came to being a sympathetic character to me. But I don't think it's the fault of the actor... She does well with what she's given, I just think it's kind if crap to have writers that are some how afraid or not interested enough in her to make her smart and exciting. They're too worried abt scaring the kids to care, I guess. But they're bloody good at that so I guess Amy is the tradeoff?
― VegemiteGrrrl, Sunday, 23 May 2010 19:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
she's pretty smart for a kissogram tbh
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 23 May 2010 19:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
Lol
― VegemiteGrrrl, Sunday, 23 May 2010 19:22 (3 years ago) Permalink
Amy's Choice told us little about her though because it was a dream, except she realised she loved Rory then this week she was all "we're still together in 10 years, wtf?" again.
― ailsa, Sunday, 23 May 2010 19:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
only companion to get into an episode title after all
Er, Rose got into Rose.
― JimD, Sunday, 23 May 2010 20:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
Am I the only one who thinks that Ambrosia or whatever the boy's mum's name is will be the one to kill the Silurian?
Yeah, I thought this was signposted too, but so much that it's unlikely to be the actual end result, it'd just feel a bit obvious now.
― JimD, Sunday, 23 May 2010 20:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
Her name was Ambrose, which really annoyed me, because that is a man's name. Yes, that was the thing that annoyed me.
― trishyb, Sunday, 23 May 2010 22:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
ambROSE do you see etc etc etc
― i can't turn my face into a book (c sharp major), Sunday, 23 May 2010 22:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
To be honest, can't see how there was anything important in that deleted scene that we didn't already know--the Doctor's already said 'Time isn't fixed'. Is there something I'm missing? (It would help if they'd just show the bloody scene, rather than 7-second bits of it intercut with crew waffling on)
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 24 May 2010 00:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Ambrose *is* a dumb name. Unless you are Ambrose Bierce.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 24 May 2010 00:57 (3 years ago) Permalink
ILX disagrees - maybe due to existence of onetime British poster Ambrose.
― when the fertilizer hits the ventilator (suzy), Monday, 24 May 2010 06:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
Oops... meant dumb name for girl.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 24 May 2010 06:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
It's not necessarily a fuck-up. That's exactly the sort of thing that causes Matt Smith's Doctor to start smacking his head and going "gah why didn't I think of that before?!" though.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Monday, 24 May 2010 09:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
^^^^winning screen name.
Agreed - but geologists digging only to find a life form they're not expecting makes them slightly less culpable than driller-uppers who are coveting the surface knowing full well what/who is up there.
― when the fertilizer hits the ventilator (suzy), Monday, 24 May 2010 09:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
Something that bugged me about future Romy waving at them was that I thought there was going to be a twist that the people waving were actually Ambrose and someone else, esp. since the jacket that Ambrose was wearing looked like something an older Amy would wear.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 04:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
Romy
ugh please don't do this
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 04:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
It is clever and you hate fun.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 04:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
wld endorse Mira Sorvino as new additional companion (and then they lez up)
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 05:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ambrose *is* a dumb name.
I just called her "Welsh Felicia Day" because that's who she looked like.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 12:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
works better than Jedward at least
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 12:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Nothing works better than Jedward.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 12:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
Samanda > Jedward
― this skit is ba-na-nas (onimo), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 15:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
it's a shame Rosicky never took off
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 15:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I feel like posting the Jedward commercial but that would probably result in a sb.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 16:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
"There will be no battle here today" - McCoy ref?
― literally with cash (ledge), Tuesday, 25 May 2010 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
Decent episode. As usual in this season, definitely fun when plot is moving too fast for most of the characters to keep up. As said above, kid nightmare stuff = A+ execution. Don't get the Amy hate at all, frankly, (and Donna was/is probably my favorite companion of the new series, I don't see the conflict - I mean every companion was at least a little sassy), and I think she's already got a ton of background info/character development - we'll probably see even more as this series ends. And we don't even know if she's coming back next year or not (at least, I don't, so don't tell me).
― Nhex, Tuesday, 25 May 2010 22:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
I really like the quieter Who episodes, the ones with less running around and yelling and dramatic music, so "Amy's Choice" worked really well for me. The strength of this new doctor is that he can embody a subtlety and dry humour I don't think the last guy was capable of. This last episode was very good though. Not too too much action, I thought.
― fields of salmon, Tuesday, 25 May 2010 22:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
The Meera Syal thing was about the small-ish Who fan faction (certainly smaller than Season 6B hypothesis, or Eighth Doctor is not canon) who believe that the BBC have an agenda to place ethnic minorities in positions of power wherever possible - it started with Hannah Barbera in Battlefield then was a consistent gripe throughout the RTD era (at times even stronger than the GAY AGENDAR clamour, although it's part of the same noise to me TBH).
She gets told no to coming into the TARDIS by the Doctor who looks REALLY angry about the idea of her coming in at one point, but eventually concedes. I thought this would have kicked off the conspiracy brigade, but the only people bothered about it seem to be RTD fans going SEE IT'S NOT JUST HIM HOOT!
(For your reference, Meera Syal is a famous British comedy actress - which is probably why she gets so may joeks and gets to be funny - and would have been considered Stunt Casting if this was the JNT era.)
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 08:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
See, that's just idiotic. Kind of shows a lack of understanding about the BBC in not acknowledging they'd use some of their biggest in-house stars, who happen to be from ethnic minorities - if anything, the producers are only guilty of using award-winning actors whenever possible, whether the actor is Sophie Okonedo or Toby Jones. Also LOL at complaining about Syal and Nina Wadia playing Asian doctors/scientists - like there are NONE OF THESE in Britain.
I was one of the people going YUSSSSSSSS whenever RTD went gayagendar because SCIENCE FICTION IS CAMP AS FUCK ALREADY. I am also short with people who whine about deus ex machina, having watched what is essentially a god in a machine change faces/solve shit for 47 years. UNHHHHH.
― when the fertilizer hits the ventilator (suzy), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 08:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Deus ex Machina is just bad writing more than anything else, there have hardly been any in this series, which has been much more creative as far as resolutions go. They were really blatant in the second half of the RTD era.
Then again I am still fuming from the Lost finale so my tolerance of such things is at an all-time low.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 08:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
so in short, there are Doctor Who fans on the internet who are also racist dimwits
― Nhex, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 08:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
― when the fertilizer hits the ventilator (suzy), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 08:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
who believe that the BBC have an agenda to place ethnic minorities in positions of power wherever possible
I'm sure they do. I don't see why this is a problem, though. (I know you're not saying you have a problem with it.)
― trishyb, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 09:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Positions of power" = eh not really. "Positions of visibility" yes.
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 10:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think "positions of power" means onscreen: doctors, prime ministers, scientists, etc.
― trishyb, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
There was that black President in the last Rusty story...
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
That seems a bit paranoid to me. I'd imagine the producers just select the most capable and interesting actors available with little regard for ethnicity (as regards Who). 80% of the show takes place in the future – they've got the ability to explain away any casting decisions they wish to make ('that's what it's like, then!') so I'd imagine they have a more free hand to cast according to whims and whiles than those shows aiming for contemporary or historical accuracy.
― ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 12:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
Making the future Queen of England a black woman was inspired. Take that racist fanboys and Daily Mail readers!
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 12:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well, quite
― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 12:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Take that racist fanboys and Daily Mail readers!
thing is if it's done for that reason rather than remy's "the producers just select the most capable and interesting actors available with little regard for ethnicity" then the racist fanboys kind of have a point - that ethnicity comes above talent in casting.
Not that I think it's really the case - they weren't exactly pro-minority in having their white Rose leaving her stupid cowardly black boyfriend behind (though they eventually boosted his character to official Brave status before giving him the only other minority companion as a wife - cutting out all that inter-racial sex that racist fanboys might object to).
― this skit is ba-na-nas (onimo), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 13:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
Grizz: Come to think of it, I saw a white judge on Law and Order last night. Tracy: Oh yeah, it's back on! Get ready, son. All you've ever known is your affirmative action job and Queen Latifah CoverGirl commercials.
― long time listener, first time balla (history mayne), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
ugh, Onimo, i've been trying to pretend the whole martha-and-mickey-get-married-for-no-apparent-reason bullshit never happened :(
i do think Who makes something of an effort to have multi-ethnic casting, though I think some of that is a straight-up desire to represent the multiethnic reality of life in the UK today (and then, bad wolf like, spread that social norm throughout space and time)? I've said this elsewhere, but I don't think it's a coincidence that in Vampires in Venice the two lead black characters both verbally identified themselves as Venetian.
― naglpuss (c sharp major), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
80% of the show takes place in the future – they've got the ability to explain away any casting decisions they wish to make ('that's what it's like, then!')
out of nine eps this year we've had three in the distant future and space, and two a mere 20 years in the future on earth.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
It happened for a pretty simple reason; RTD likes incredibly pat, unjustified sappy endings. If you can find a copy of his book Damaged Goods from... 1997? you will find an incredibly brutal, terrifying story ruined by this type of cloying nonsense.
― Marni and Louboutin: coming to Tuesdays this fall on FOX (HI DERE), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't think they cast Meera Syal because they specifically wanted an Asian woman in the role, they cast her because she was Meera Syal and a household name beloved of much of middle Britain.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
80% of the show takes place in the future – they've got the ability to explain away any casting decisions they wish to make ('that's what it's like, then!'
okay, doctor is from the far far future (or distant distant past) and from a crazy mixed up muddled world with time-fractures in every direction and b/c this is sci-fi basically everything leaps all over the place we can do any sort of racial casting we can imagine b/c the particularity & granularity of the stories are never meant to represent a documentary reality but individual experiences which allow for basically any thing.
― ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 15:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
Queen Liz was brilliantly acted though, so the racist baiting touch was just a nice bonus.
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 19:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Not a classic, but I enjoyed that more than the first one. Glad it turned into allegory of fragile diplomacy rather than all out war, because the warrior Silurians were frankly rubbish. Still, poor Rory.
Not quite sure how the Doctor can stick an entire hand into the crack and survive, but I suppose we'll find out. The fragment of the Tardis was a great bit of foreshadowing though.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Saturday, 29 May 2010 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
Really? I thought it was the first unambiguously bad episode this season -- such hackneyed allegory.
Not quite sure how the Doctor can stick an entire hand into the crack and survive
... timey wimey...
The fragment of the Tardis was a great bit of foreshadowing though.
Would be hilarious if we see the crack opened up next to the Tardis, and a hand in a tweed sleeve coming through it break off a piece of its sign.
Rory (and Mickey?) is sort of the mirror image of the Doctor, right? They're all nerd analogues, but where the Doctor is dashing and adventurous, the Rory/Mickey type is the agoraphobic and domesticated inverse image.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Saturday, 29 May 2010 21:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
It was alright. I was hoping we'd get a flash forward to the Silurians and humans living together at the end - maybe they're saving that for next season.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 30 May 2010 00:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think there were germs of quite a few good ideas in this two-parter, but it would've taken a major re-write to raise it from passable to excellent.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 30 May 2010 00:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
I was really picking up on the Amy-hate during the episode. Then she did well with the Rory business and it's fine again.
Overall kind of weak (felt very Star Trek at points, but that might be a combo of brokering peace treaties and lizard people), and I hope next week's is okay even though historical figure eps never blow me out of the water.
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Sunday, 30 May 2010 01:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also Richard Curtis doesn't have a track record of writing stories about scary monsters.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 30 May 2010 01:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
oof, is next week's the Curtis one? hmm...
― Gee, Officer (Gukbe), Sunday, 30 May 2010 01:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
I also kind of love that middle-aged Felicia Day turned out to be the weak, spat-upon example of humanity, I am so tired of these kinds of characters who do horrible things but its okay because its for their family!
― Nhex, Sunday, 30 May 2010 02:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Anyone else doubt that Rory is gone forever?
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Sunday, 30 May 2010 03:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
oh yeah, definitely some magic wand business at the end of this season, no doubt.
― Nhex, Sunday, 30 May 2010 03:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
Engagement ring safe in a time machine is doubtless key
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Sunday, 30 May 2010 07:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
Did we find out what happened to the missing corpses, by the way?
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Sunday, 30 May 2010 09:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
Assumed they were getting experimented on by Lizard Farnsworth.
― Nhex, Sunday, 30 May 2010 10:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
nice to hear stephen moore again.
― koogs, Sunday, 30 May 2010 11:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dissection thread turned out to be stupid, introduced in the last 30 seconds of last week's ep as an arbitrary cliffhanger then dismissed again in the first 3 minutes of this week's, after which evil surgeon transforms into avuncular voice of reason. Maybe arbitrary cliffhangars are meant to be a throwback to old-who?
Couple of nice moments in this one but yeah, bit wonky overall. Wasn't happy to see badmum get away with it, to be honest. Rory death wasn't particularly affecting either, felt too obvious he'd be coming back later. Also worrying that him being erased from amy's memory might lead to more of her trying to pull the doc, which was funny once but could grate pretty quickly.
― JimD, Sunday, 30 May 2010 11:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
Bleh rubbish. Whole thing appears only to have existed to cause RoryDeath. Why the change in behaviour in the scientist? He was all HARHARHAR MUST VIVISECT (please to note, vivisection is what you do on live specimens, not dissection) FOR SHITS 'N' GIGGLES one minute then suddenly changes to a position where the Tennant Doctor would have rubbed his cheeks and gone OOOO I WUB YOU HYOOMUNS REPTILES. Didn't enjoy the return to Rusty STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING territory either. Didn't understand the Toxic Gas hibernation system either - if you were having to go into hibernation because of some threat to your life, refusal to do so is rewarded with death? If you think you're going to die by not hibernating, then what kind of a threat is that? Or why didn't they just use the discs to get to the surface and avoid the gas? How were Meera Syal and Grandad Greenshoulder going to survive that gas and then get into hibernation, and how did they know they would even be able to use the system to do it? Wasn't Agressive Shouty Warrior Reptile put into hibernation at one point, only to reappear 30 seconds later?
Karen's worst episode as Amy yet, lowest point for me was when the camera panned past her as ASWR was transmitting to the telly in the bin in the church. Utterly reduced to a poor-quality zing device. Also, to any Cap'n-Save-An-Amys out there, it may benefit you to rewatch the sequence where she bangs on the door of the TARDIS post-RoryDeath after the Doctor has soniced it. ARTHUR IS THE ACTOR'S NAME, NOT THE CHARACTER'S.
Not sure next week looks like any improvement, and the week after is (I think) James Corden week...
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also, where were the explanations for either grave robbing or the blue grass? According to the plot, all the drilling was doing was cracking oxygen pockets.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Overall kind of weak (felt very Star Trek at points, but that might be a combo of brokering peace treaties and lizard people)
Even the music sounded very Star Trek. It was all very meh, except for maybe the last five minutes or so of the episode.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
series 5 has reversed the tradition of the first two-parter kind of sucking and the second two-parter being better. this was super-boring and inconsistent and redundant. like, are these negotiations supposed to be inherently interesting to watch? because we already know they're going to fall to shit when they discover the dead lizard lady. but then the military leader started preemptively killing people before she even learned about her dead sister, so.
i'm really tired of amy at this point. i thought little amelia pond was wonderful, and i liked where they were going with the character in the first few episodes, but all that feels a million miles away. now it's all either sassy joeks or dead-boyfriend-sad with not a lot in between, and i don't think she pulls off either with total aplomb.
― AGGGGGROOOOOO CRAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG (reddening), Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, I wanted tiny Amelia Pond to go on adventures when watching Ep 1, let's have that next season when they hit the reset button on this time loop or bubble universe.
and I rly rly hate to be cap'n save-a-chibnall but
Why the change in behaviour in the scientist? He was all HARHARHAR MUST VIVISECT (please to note, vivisection is what you do on live specimens, not dissection) FOR SHITS 'N' GIGGLES one minute then
v true on vivisection, but from his perspective, he knew he could put people back together no problem, and was doing it for science
suddenly changes to a position where the Tennant Doctor would have rubbed his cheeks and gone OOOO I WUB YOU HYOOMUNS REPTILES.
Smith Doctor actually says "I rather love you!" One of many unwelcome callbacks to RTD-stylee, along with all the FAMILY FAMILY FAMILEEEEE, spend ten minutes hugging everyone stuff.
Didn't understand the Toxic Gas hibernation system either - if you were having to go into hibernation because of some threat to your life, refusal to do so is rewarded with death?
....er, yes? if you don't avoid the threat to your life, you die.
If you think you're going to die by not hibernating, then what kind of a threat is that?
it's a defence against infection, not a threat against anything. the infection is the threat to your life.
Or why didn't they just use the discs to get to the surface and avoid the gas?
Safer to go back to the cosy hibernation that's worked for millennia than to go to an alien culture you know nothing about!
How were Meera Syal and Grandad Greenshoulder going to survive that gas and then get into hibernation,
The room's locked. fumigation's in the tunnels.
and how did they know they would even be able to use the system to do it?
Wise Old Silurian either said it might, or didn't say it wouldn't
Wasn't Agressive Shouty Warrior Reptile put into hibernation at one point, only to reappear 30 seconds later?
I don't think so?
Also, to any Cap'n-Save-An-Amys out there, it may benefit you to rewatch the sequence where she bangs on the door of the TARDIS post-RoryDeath after the Doctor has soniced it. ARTHUR IS THE ACTOR'S NAME, NOT THE CHARACTER'S.
She says "Let me out, PLEASE let me out, I need to get to Rooory!" Gasping while crying, then breathing in again, doesn't = saying "Arthur!"
Another dumb dumb bit from the writer of 42: starting a 15-minute countdown 15 minutes before the end of the episode, playing a scene in real time, and saying "8 minutes left!" three minutes later.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
also, I forget to say it every week, but fuck Murray Gold.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
Maybe they're still in the dream from the Dreamlord episode.
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
also those are some fucking lame warriors, who when given an order to shoot, stand around for 2 minutes while someone disarms them one by one by one. and don't know how to aim their own tongues.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Didn't enjoy the return to Rusty STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING territory either.
I saw this more as mocking the faaaaaaambly stuff. It's the boneheaded insistence that family trumps all that almost leads to war, estranges son from mother (despite Grandad's pleas) and leaves humanity on its own for the next 1000 years.
― stet, Sunday, 30 May 2010 13:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
(ended up as x-post so stet otm)
STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING
But it was a take-down of this no? Like familyfamilyfamily is what really sends everything shitwards here. Felt like an explicit takedown or rebuild of the tedious RTD fallback family stuff. Sorta ok with it for this one, just thankful Amy's still effectively an orphan.
Thought this was ok, not great. Not too plot-holey really, and I can take a little bit of Star Trekky politics. Didn't mind that we knew the negotiations would be shot to shit - just added to the gloomy view of humans in this one, which I thought was its strongest suit - less of the thumb-in-the-scales 'aren't humans WONDERFUL', more of the 'really plz just stop killing shit for 5 min'.
― woof, Sunday, 30 May 2010 13:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
No, familyfamilyfamily always did turn everything to shit or was the wrong decision in Rusty's ers, it just got given a free pass as understandable because it was familyfamilyfamily.
To go back to the earlier question about Toxic Gas Hibernation:
It's a threat THEY put there. And it's not much protection against infection if you still have enough time to run into hibernation when you hear the warning signs they're about to start using toxic gas now, is it? "Everybody run to the hibernation tanks except those of you who think you've got a bit of a sniffle, you lot just stay here and get gassed to death without any protest or struggle please thank you."
Or, as those watching the episode might call it, the place you've just been negotiating to live in and have spend the whole story talking about going to and/or the place you've been going to already.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 30 May 2010 14:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Didn't mind that we knew the negotiations would be shot to shit - just added to the gloomy view of humans in this one
yeah, this is dramatic irony – something old who used to be big on, pre rusty era
― ampersand (remy bean), Sunday, 30 May 2010 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
That said: I didn't react to this episode as strongly as the rest of you. The only scenes that really bothered me were
1) the abortive vivisection2) rory's dying words. for godssakes, just let him kick the bucket. either he'll be back (ehh) or he won't (ehh) but the impact of his death was mitigated by his last gasping platitudes.3) the rushed negotiations. if more had been done to convey lengthiness, rigor, or great debate i would have been convinced of the necessity of these scenes. but Amy's bored-ass slouching on the table only undermined the seriousness of the goal and highlighted the character's immaturity (though this, i wonder, might not be out of place if timey-wimeyness and Amelia are somehow implicated)4) the stupid sonic screwdriver/gunplay crap
― ampersand (remy bean), Sunday, 30 May 2010 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 30 May 2010 16:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
The ending was great (TARDIS-through-crack, not Rory's Best Bits in dream sequence flashback that was horrible), the rest not so much.
Really wanted to punch Amy in the face for being terrible zingmonster all the way through ("Clingy much?"), but DeadRory seemed to bring her back round again, though now she's forgotten him, it'll all be shite again.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
haven't seen any of this series but really not getting the amy-hate
― English: The Money Woman (history mayne), Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
I don't get it either. Maybe her prettiness is affecting my judgment.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
She's annoying as fuck and doesn't do anything except zing and sass about, even in mortal danger. And she's mean to lovely (dead) Rory.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Which of the classic serials on YouTube are worth watching?
http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Ps0e32nFzs0&s=1
I've seen Sensorites, Krotons and Carnival of Monsters.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Androzani probably the best of those. Twin Dilemma for lolz only. Mandragora also good, and I quite like Full Circle.
― JimD, Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Try watching, you might get it.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Masque of Mandragora! Full Circle is pretty good even though it introduced Adric, and Caves of Androzani is really good too. Planet of the Spiders is way overlong but the last episode is wonderful.
― "the English sweat" (a new disease) (clotpoll), Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
On Amy, I feel like she's nearly a brilliant portrait of a kind of troubled personality I've met - manic-energetic, curious, restless, up for things; but suddenly sullen and aggressive. Dangerous to those around them, and solipsistic. (I don't think I'm trying to describe bipolar; maybe one of those Borderline PD/Narcissism things that everyone's always calling everyone else nowadays). But it isn't really working if that's what's intended (because of her acting? script trouble? the need to make her conventionally likeable?), and I can't tell if it even is intended - maybe she's just meant to be hotlegs the zing machine. I really liked her early on; now my hope is waning.
However, I like looking at Karen Gillan very, very much.
― woof, Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
She's annoying as fuck and doesn't do anything except zing and sass about, even in mortal danger.
I agree with second point, but not the first. I find her zinging and sassing entirely bearable.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
She basically pokes about in dangerous places, is not even remotely fazed by tootling about space and time with a bloke she met in her kitchen when she was 7, deals with danger by quipping sassily at the bringer of danger, manages to solve and understand everything really really quickly and cleverly when wiser men/timelords than her faff about ineffectively going "umm..." because we are met to thing she is all ZOMG AMAZING just like what Rose was, and she wears tights to go to Rio so she is clearly mental.
She's very pretty though, yes. But sarky intelligent zingers, even hott ones, don't work as kissograms, do they? I also have HUGE issues around her relationship with Rory.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think of her as the genetic average of donna and rose. but i sort of liked rose, so go figure.
― ampersand (remy bean), Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Matt Smith's jumper is making me want a tube of refreshers.
― atoms breaking heart (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
met to thing
meant to think, obv. Amy has used up all the common sense and ZOMG AMAZINGness for the entire population of Inverness, leaving me a gibbering fool.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah i didn't mind amy at all until she started being an asshole to rory, who may be a boring doofus but is otherwise, a sweetheart. Really annoying in this episode in particular.
― Roz, Sunday, 30 May 2010 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
James' gif needs more love, Ladytron.
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Sunday, 30 May 2010 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
let's be fair though, what the heck is so likeable about Rory? he's mostly another boring hangdog clingy guy, he doesn't he even have half the spirit of Mickey as far as likeable losers go
― Nhex, Sunday, 30 May 2010 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
He's normal and nice. The Whoniverse needs more normal and nice people in it (it's why I used to like Jackie Tyler more than Rose as well)
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
I really liked Meera Syal in this one, btw.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 19:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
let's be fair though, what the heck is so likeable about Rory? he's mostly another boring hangdog clingy guy, he doesn't he even have half the spirit of Mickey as far as likeable losers go.
This is why I have problems with people who think he's "lovely" -- he seems massively codependent, it's not like I dislike the guy but he doesn't seem particularly admirable in any way either.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 30 May 2010 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Just watched, no real problems. Hardly amazing, but I'm still looking at what this series brings - some hard messing around with time (in a constructive way, not the vague and almost indifferent RTD way), underground cities/forests in spaceships/vampires/slight sense of dislocation and mystery in the series arc (so so much better than the f'ing Bad Wolf stuff), genuine chills (first ep of this one was better for that), and the focus on the adventure rather than the emo stuff. I know the emo stuff is kind of part of it now, but the adventure and strangeness shd always be the priority imo.
Much better than the Glam Who and the Supervillain Roadshow of RTD era.
It's not all amazing, but I mind the way it's bad (this slightly trudgy episode for instance) than when the last series was bad.
I quite like the old Davidson/Pertwee feel to it as well. (Those tin gas guns were pure old skool).
Still like Matt Smith v much as well. Amy -
manic-energetic, curious, restless, up for things; but suddenly sullen and aggressive
This, totally. How she is portrayed feels v natural to me, like a few girls I know (in a good way), and I think it's pretty intentional. And I think it works quite well with the Doctor persona - stroppiness, uncertainty, cavalier unthinking courage, working under the teacherly Doctor, as if she's not sure what's fun and what's serious.
Music is utterly dreadful.
― GamalielRatsey, Sunday, 30 May 2010 20:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
glad they killed off Gary Neville
― zappi, Sunday, 30 May 2010 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Actually, I thought some of Amy's zings (especially the totally inappropriate "clingy" one) were quite funny and well-delivered. And I sort of like the idea that she half-loves, half-patronises Rory and hasn't quite made up here mind about him, because (to me at least) that strikes me as quite a realistic portrayal of how some relationships work (as opposed to Rose getting googly-eyed over David Tennant). Whether that's appropriate for Doctor Who, and whether the writing and the acting quite sell the idea, I'm not sure. But I do like her Larry David foot-in-mouthiness.
Incidentally, while that cut scene from Confidential was pretty incidental to the plot, I thought that bit of the Doctor saying "I really like him" about Rory was very sweet, and it might have given more gravitas to the death scene if they'd kept it in.
Also, Matt Smith still totally charming, if not quite always-not-wooden.
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 30 May 2010 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
And I sort of like the idea that she half-loves, half-patronises Rory and hasn't quite made up here mind about him
She's supposed to be getting married to him in some version of tomorrow, she should have decided by now!
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
(Actually, that's the bit I find the most true-to-life.)
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 30 May 2010 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, the problem with the story so far is that the viewer probably needs the expository scenes and isn't getting enough of them for a grasp on why Amy acts the way she does. I don't necessarily have any issues with her diffidence or sarcasm, or the way she seems to hedge bets on her relationship. She's insecure on so many levels.
Something annoying on Confidential is how the actors have this wooden/corporate way of referring to episodes which weirds me out, since previous actors seemed to be in geek heaven compared to these.
― I eat truffle fries because my captors say they'll kill me if I don't (suzy), Sunday, 30 May 2010 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
I guess she's insecure because the doctor pissed off and forget to come back for her for years (twice!) and she doesn't appear to have a family or anything, I get all that. Doesn't make her any more likeable or watchable though.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think Rory is really irritating, but that's because they gave the guy only one dramatic concern: insecurity about Amy actually liking him after the Doctor showed up. It's kind of unfair to only present him this way & expect us to be sentimental about him when he dies.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Sunday, 30 May 2010 21:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm actually quite pleased whenever Rory turns up, but it's hard to get sentimental about him when you know he's going to come back in the finale (I'm guessing)...
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 30 May 2010 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
SPOILER ALERT:
not too big a spoiler
but
My husband tells me he's listed in the cast for the finale on IMDB. For whatever that is worth.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Sunday, 30 May 2010 21:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
it didn't help that they just killed rory off two episodes ago, so the drama of the moment was a bit undercut by "what, this again?"
i'm also still annoyed that "amy's choice" copied dead-boyfriend lines from torchwood, because when it comes to being sad over your dead boyfriend, amy doesn't hold a candle to gwen.
― AGGGGGROOOOOO CRAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG (reddening), Sunday, 30 May 2010 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Haven't thought this through much, but has Rory been important to stuff that will unravel now that he's been wiped from existence? None of the stuff in Amy's Choice actually happened, but the Vampires of Venice stuff wouldn't have panned out had he not been around, same with The Eleventh Hour, surely?
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 23:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
I doubt they're going that far, at least with the style of timey-wimey wiped-from-existence stuff that's been going on this season. Those things still happened, just sidestepping his involvement. (Ignoring the likely deus ex machina where everybody lives we'll probably get at the end.)
― Nhex, Sunday, 30 May 2010 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh, I'm sure he's coming back.
I had missed the whole Amy's clock going wrong thing (went from 11.59am on 25 June to 12.00pm on 26 June) and the thing about Rory's ID card (NHS staff card issued in 1990, when he'd have been 8 if we're in 2010, which I think we possibly are again, though I'll defer to aldo if I'm wrong there), so I don't think it's outwith the realm of possibility that there's weird time shit going on and that'll let him come back.
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
The NHS card I'm pretty sure was revealed to just be a prop goof, not intentional. Very Lost!
― Nhex, Sunday, 30 May 2010 23:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
aah, but was it? There was a close-up and everything!
― ailsa, Sunday, 30 May 2010 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Moffat claimed he had no idea about it and it must have been a mistake.
They're a) soldiers, who do what they've been trained to, and b) total deadshits. And again giving Chibnall too much credit, once hibernated, an infected 'lurian isn't going to spread the infection any further.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Monday, 31 May 2010 01:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
PS woooow that is way too much JNT on that Youtube channel! MOAR PERTWEE, ADD HINCHCLIFFE AND WILLIAMS
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Monday, 31 May 2010 01:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
Rory did have a pretty circa 1990 idea of what cool hair is like in the dream episode.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Monday, 31 May 2010 01:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
OTM, was the only lame item out of what I thought was a great episode ending. When Rory comes back - and I can't imagine he wouldn't - I'm looking forward to his showing newfound maturity by kicking Amy to the curb. It's no wonder he's so useless when she lives to tear him down.
Effects, makeup and costumes really nice in this episode!
― Brakhage, Monday, 31 May 2010 02:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
i'm enjoying this season but seriously, this is the most neurotic i've ever seen this show get - everyone's letting their issues take over! they need to land on a psychiatrist planet. i think the crack in the wall/space/time might close up with some shock therapy and zoloft.
― planes/octaves/dimensions of existence (rrrobyn), Monday, 31 May 2010 02:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Emo Who for realz.
Was mightily impressed by Amy's meltdown...very affecting. Though it does bug me that she would show such a reaction supposedly borne of love when she is so seemingly not in love with him when he's around. Irritatingly flighty I think is how I would characterize her.
Bit pleased with myself for calling Ambrose as the lizard-killah. And boy she really did manage to get even less likeable, amazed, wasn't sure i could like old sourface less...but oh how I did. Bleh. Poor Elliot. Leave home as soon as you can kid, your mam is a bint with a silly name.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 31 May 2010 04:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
I suspect I may have overprimed myself by thinking that Stephen Moffat running Doctor Who was going to result in the best TV ever made. But still very much enjoying it all--though the distant waving Amy/Rory stuff seemed very underdeveloped. And I still don't get what was so important about that deleted scene. Can somebody please explain to dense me?
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Monday, 31 May 2010 04:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
I thought it was just that the Doctor said that he liked Rory very much, something that hasn't been evident from anyone really except for when he keeps dying all the time and Amy suddenly realises he's OK (only to go back to zinging and not caring when he came back after the dreamlord death).
The waving Rory/Amy was just to show that timey wimey stuff can change the future - they'd seen future them and then when Rory died it was just her seeing future her.
― ailsa, Monday, 31 May 2010 10:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm so nicking "hotlegs the zing machine" for future use.
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Monday, 31 May 2010 10:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
The important thing about the deleted scene is the "time is not fixed wrt you" bit the Doctor says to Amy.
It's still worth remembering the Amy (and Rory) we see waving in the distance are wearing their clothes from Amy's Choice. Other things to remember: Amy's stairwell in front of the door she can't see in The Eleventh Hour. The Doctor's jacket when he comes out of the forest in the Weeping Angels one. The graveyard just before Elliot disappears. Amy's memories of the Daleks.
There are no ducks in the duck pond.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Monday, 31 May 2010 10:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, the doctor's jacket suggests he went back and told wee Amelia something then nipped back to comfort Amy in the forest. Waht is graveyard thing? I presume the daleks have gone into that crack (but why does she remember the clerics?)
btw, I have to go out, so won't see any answers until later, but these are things that puzzle me.
― ailsa, Monday, 31 May 2010 10:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
Graveyard thing is the same thing from Eleventh Hour. Can't say any more for SHH SPOILAZ.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Monday, 31 May 2010 10:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I thought three things:
1) BORING2) Ambrose is still a man's name3) Dreadful dialogue, particularly when Rory says to Silurian lady "you're not going to die, not TODAY!" two seconds before she dies.
When the Doctor was being tortured Han Solo-style at the beginning and Amy and the other bloke were running around the corridors of the Silurian city, it felt for a minute like proper old Tom Baker-style Who, and I thought we might be in for some proper sneaking about and rescuing, but it all just kind of fell apart.
Amy's gobby face is starting to get on my nerves as well. I don't think it's Karen Gillan's fault though. I just wish the writers would give her something to do to show us why the Doctor likes her so much. More pickpocketing of useful items would be a start.
― trishyb, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
Is not SSH SPOILAZ if it's been on though, surely?
― ailsa, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also hate her in the dancing clip, Matt is just doing a dad-dancing thing whereas she is doing a weird look-at-me-don't-look-at-me-look-at-me thing that she's privately sure makes he look like Lady Gaga. (NB, I was at a wedding on Saturday and saw a pile of 20-somethings doing the exact same thing.)
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's SHH SPOILAZ what you should have been looking for though and why it's important. xpost
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
Aldo, it might be time for one of those remedial emails.
Those moves weren't completely Boombox, just the kind of post-voguing moves girls have done for 20 years.
― I eat truffle fries because my captors say they'll kill me if I don't (suzy), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Shows how much attention I pay to GURLZ.
It's just as well I don't spend a lot of time on Doctor Who forums, or that would make me look really sad.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ah yes, also I had some info from my friend who styled her the other week for a Perou shoot - she runs with a fashiony crowd, boyf is art director type.
― I eat truffle fries because my captors say they'll kill me if I don't (suzy), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
I'm looking forward to Rory showing his newfound maturity by kicking Amy to the curb
Ha, given this is a Moffatt show, that is not totally implausible.
I'm still not convinced that having ambiguous feelins about your partner (i.e. Rory) is character inconsistency -- surely it's just normal (especially if you're 20)?
I suspect I may have overprimed myself by thinking that Stephen Moffat running Doctor Who was going to result in the best TV ever made.
It's not so much that the show has become significantly better, I think, but the lows aren't nearly so low anymore.
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
I take it the Graveyard thing is the bit where that shadow quickly runs across the screen as in The Eleventh Hour. Guessing this is FutureDoc coming back on himself to piss about with time, no?
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
(Sorry if that was a spoiler, I was merely speculating based on what's already been said here)
― unpredictable johnny rodz, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's still worth remembering the Amy (and Rory) we see waving in the distance are wearing their clothes from Amy's Choice.
Bloody hell aldo, how big is your telly?
particularly when Rory says to Silurian lady "you're not going to die, not TODAY!"
That was him echoing the doctor's earlier "nobody dies, not today" thing though, wasn't it? I thought it was a cute way of demonstrating Rory's faith in the doc, despite all his criticisms etc.
― JimD, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
In the Angels episode when the soldiers guarding Amy all went off one by one into the light/Crack, why didn't Amy 'forget' about them in the same way she did with Rory?
― salsa shark, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Doctor said she's different cos she's travelled thru time, handily, iirc.
― GamalielRatsey, Monday, 31 May 2010 11:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
Soldiers not wrapped up in her timeline in the way that Rory is, plausible enough.
― I eat truffle fries because my captors say they'll kill me if I don't (suzy), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
This is one of those things that becomes received wisdom 'truth' just because enough people have said it on message boards enough time but is actually not true at all. The space whale episode for example where Amy being compassionate saved the day when the Doctor was ready to let it all go to shit. The "Amy doesn't 100% trust the Doctor" thing hinted at in the Weeping Angels episode is going to get some play later. And the Amy's Choice episode was great.
I think the problem is that some of the writers haven't really worked out how to write properly for her yet, when Moffat's been at the helm she's been much better and more interesting.
Getting Rory out of the way at this stage is probably quite sensible. I want the Moff to do another episode soon though.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
Next week's ep looks like the very definition of a 6/10 bit of standard nu-Who historical fluff though.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Monday, 31 May 2010 11:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
I liked the monster in the window tho. Touch of the MR James about it.
― GamalielRatsey, Monday, 31 May 2010 12:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hmm, I think Moffat got a lot better than I expected from Simon fucking Nye so it may be fine.
― I eat truffle fries because my captors say they'll kill me if I don't (suzy), Monday, 31 May 2010 12:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
It also doesn't help Amy's character that she's been in a script written for Donna, who was zingy as all get out (& who I also liked a lot).
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Monday, 31 May 2010 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Maybe the problem is that Karen Gillen isn't a good enough actor to carry Amy off sympathetically. She has this annoying stary-eye thing that's difficult to take seriously. Same way Donna would have been much better had she not been played by Catherine Tate.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Monday, 31 May 2010 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
can't stop seeing the MySpace pout since Tracer pointed it out
― stet, Monday, 31 May 2010 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
I am really going to have to stop reading this thread. :(
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 31 May 2010 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Amy's life's theme is abandonment, so it's understandable that she would overcompensate by never allowing Rory to think that he has any emotional hold over her that might leave her vulnerable. My guess is that as the show goes on, she'll learn to be, well, kinder, and Rory will become more assertive - and that will help to cement the relationship.
(Mickey and Rose by contrast had the same dynamic - doofus boyfriend and lovestruck-with-the-doctor - but their growing up led to them growing apart, I see the opposite happening with Amy and Rory.)
It's still worth remembering the Amy (and Rory) we see waving in the distance are wearing their clothes from Amy's Choice. Other things to remember: Amy's stairwell in front of the door she can't see in The Eleventh Hour. The Doctor's jacket when he comes out of the forest in the Weeping Angels one. The graveyard just before Elliot disappears. Amy's memories of the Daleks.There are no ducks in the duck pond.
Man, I am so confused now. If it was just a La Jetee thing and there was only one timeline I could deal, but things are changing all the time, aren't they?
― Brakhage, Monday, 31 May 2010 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
The space whale episode for example where Amy being compassionate saved the day when the Doctor was ready to let it all go to shit.
Space Whale thing was weird because she was all "HE'S JUST LIKE YOU DO YOU SEE" when she'd known the Doctor for, like, two days. It was as unexpected as her working out to pause the video loop of the angel when the angel wasn't in screen.
I agree that it's because she's badly written for (and aye, getting a Donna episode didn't help), but regardless, I have no real idea of who she is or why the hell I should care about her. Her lack of backstory and continuous twattishness towards Rory (except when he's dead) doesn't help.
I thought the shadow in the graveyard was a Silurian. Silly me.
― ailsa, Monday, 31 May 2010 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
It was a Silurian.
― DavidM, Monday, 31 May 2010 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
Right? Like, doesn't Elliot disappear right before we first see the Silurian warrior, what's her name that dies?
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Monday, 31 May 2010 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Oh is that not what the SSH SPOILAZ were about? Was there SOMETHING ELSE in the graveyard?
― ailsa, Monday, 31 May 2010 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Shadow isn't a Silurian.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 10:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
Any chance of having less spoilers on this page, please, and getting back to more wrongheaded supposition instead?
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 10:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
most of these "spoilers" sound like utter tosh tbh. crappest episode of the series for me - not quite saved by exciting arc stuff at the end which all felt a bit forced in by hand of Mof who knew this was otherwise weak sauce.
last two episode titles have been confirmed btw
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
Chris Chibnall should be placed on Doctor Who's no fly list along with Gatiss and Helen Raynor.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Why no Paul Cornell this season? He could've pissed out a better Silurian story.
Gatiss' Dickens/ghosties one wasn't too bad at all.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah but he's done two crap ones since. keep him away from the 20th century.
― mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Creepy Victoriana is pretty much the only thing Gatiss can do.
― The Men Who Stare At Goatse (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
He wrote an awesome 7th Doctor book about people's memories coming to life and eating them.
― bageled by dementeds (HI DERE), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 16:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/ebooks/nightshade/index.shtml
― bageled by dementeds (HI DERE), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
Too busy writing his own BBC series and three or four comics series, I dare say.
It was quite bad.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 00:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
aw, it introduced the phrase "what PHANTASMAGORIA is this??" into my family's everyday vernacular so i will love it always.
anyways i'll take goofy and melodramatic over plodding snoozers like the Silurian two-parter any day.
― AGGGGGROOOOOO CRAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG (reddening), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 01:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
Will totally rep for Gatiss-Dickens. It was a fun flight of fancy! A romp!
― VegemiteGrrrl, Wednesday, 2 June 2010 03:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
I actually don't mind that one. But The Idiot's Lantern is soooooooooo awful. I wish it was a person so I could punch it in the face.
― ô_o (Nicole), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 03:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Rly rly sick of historicals that turn out to be about aliens instead of historicals, especially when they have real people in them who might have been quite interesting to make up a story about, and RLY sick of the Nu-Who mode, which Gatiss set in this story, of "OMG IT IS GHOSTIES oh no they are aliums in DISGUISE" "OH NO IT IS WITCHES oh wait they are aliums in DISGUISE" "AARGH NO IT IS VAMPIRES oh bugger more bloody aliums in stupid fucking DISGIUSE"
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 03:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
don't forget werewolves
― AGGGGGROOOOOO CRAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG (reddening), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 03:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
i've seen very little old-who, did they used to have historicals where they just knocked about in the past and encountered non-alien dramatic situations?
― AGGGGGROOOOOO CRAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG (reddening), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 03:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, though mainly in the B&W years, last one was a cricket garden party murder mystery thing broadcast in 1981 or so
"OMG IT IS AN WEREWOLF no no it is an alium what MUTATED" ffs.
^ didn't hate that ep though iirc. though obv I did not r it at all for the last three years.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 03:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
Risk collective scorn here and say I liked the Idiot Lantern - people having their faces sucked off by the tv resulting in faceless/identity-less people. It wasn't amazing but a perfectly reasonable and well executed idea. Also liked the Dickens one.
Also, some of this strikes me as criticising Dr Who for what it is - a children's science fiction programme generally about aliens. The reason I'm generally in favour of it is that it completely opens the doors of perception, on prime time tv for children, to messing about with time, inventiveness, interstellar travel, unbounded imaginative speculation about the conceptual aspects of the world around you and brrrr - frightening. Something Moffat, as everyone's pointed out, is great at.
My least favourite episodes tend to be the histrionic, thousands of daleks, end of the universe + cybermen and everything ever. Don't mind the little half hour ones. Certainly the things I remember as a child are the Jagaroth (apparently terrified me absolutely rigid, difficult to see now, in what is basically a Douglas Adams ROMP!) and the snake going up the arm in that Davison ep. Details, not star wars epic stuff.
― GamalielRatsey, Wednesday, 2 June 2010 08:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
Really don't see what the problem is with supernatural beings and mythical beasties turning out to be aliens. Surely it's long been established in the Who-niverse that the supernatural and magic doesn't strictly exist. Maybe there was less of the 'oh look, these werewolves/witches/etc are really aliens' in older historicals, but they still had fun by suggesting alien intervention in real events. Take The Visitation, which has the evil alien dress robots up as the Grim Reaper so as to scare the shit out of villagers - really creepy that, and brilliantly simple. And at the end of that serial, the aliens' defeat triggers a famous historical event. Or The Daemons, Pyramid of Mars: your gods and demons are really super powerful aliens! Perhaps their reliance on popular monsters in Nu-Who has been a little lazy, with some slightly tortuous mutation/hi tech disguise devices, but when it's done well it can be great fun, even if it's a bit daft. such as in Vampires of Venice.
― Count Palmiro Vicarion (Stew), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 10:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Doing it once: hey, fun idea, nice bit of but what IF?! for the kids. Doing it every year: shitting on the very concept of youthful wonder and imagination iirc.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 11:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Daemons works super-well because it plays with a whole lot of related issues and actually has a set-up. You've got the institution of the church being supposedly well-meaning but actually kinda intimidating, you've got the dear lady Satanists who might be witchy devil-worshippers or they might be a herb-growing club, what ARE those ladies who get together for "knitting circle" in your local village up to rly?, you've got the proto-Blink awesome scares of ONE OF those gargoyles is actually an alien fighting monster thingy, eek what if ONE of the ones on the local church is too and WHICH one!, you've probably got a bunch of other cool shit I can't remember cos I've only seen one ep once in the last twenty years.
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 11:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
replace 'childen's science fiction' with 'universal fantasy' imo
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hmmm, not sure whether I agree or not there. Wd agree with the universal part to a degree but thing DW still works best when directed at children (even if the consequence is also appealing to adults) and the science fiction definition is handy because it deals with time and interplanetary travel and is speculative + sciencey.
But yes wd agree it's closer to fantasy than hard sci-fi, which I've never really been a fan of.
― GamalielRatsey, Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hard sci-fi is for these guys:
― ô_o (Nicole), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
I still think "The Aztecs" is one of the best Doctor Who stories ever told.
― bageled by dementeds (HI DERE), Wednesday, 2 June 2010 13:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Old Who was SERIOUSLY full of alien shit mistaken for supernatural shit by puny Earthlings.
― rhythm fixated member (chap), Thursday, 3 June 2010 00:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
am playing that free download game, and can't get past rewiring a fusebox: http://lifetheuniverseandcombom.blogspot.com/2010/06/doctor-who-adventure-games-update.html
― Attention please, a child has been lost in the tunnel of goats. (James Morrison), Thursday, 3 June 2010 02:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
damn that mac delay
― Nhex, Thursday, 3 June 2010 04:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
http://twitter.com/caitlinmoran/status/15273686131
hmm.
― i got her... TRUFFLE FRIES (c sharp major), Thursday, 3 June 2010 11:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
so she gets to go to sex clubs in Berlin with Gaga AND watch Doctor Who in advance?! good thing i wub her...
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 3 June 2010 11:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
Absolutely. Great plot, and I love the Olivier as Richard III type villain. 1st Doctor has a love interest as well!
Cold Blood was awful, the worst so far this series. I mean, Victory of the Daleks was ropey, but at least it was having fun, this was leaden. Meera Syal was a disaster, "But. Doc. Tor. What. Are. All. These. Plants?"
― Born too beguiled (DavidM), Thursday, 3 June 2010 12:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
thought Syal was fine, a lot of other stuff was bad.
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 3 June 2010 12:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
Meera Syal is terrible in almost everything though.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 June 2010 13:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
Dr Who sometimes almost reminds me of Iain M Banks for kids.
― Jarlrmai, Thursday, 3 June 2010 14:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
in what way?
― zappi, Thursday, 3 June 2010 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink
okay I know there were a few skeptics after last week's previews, but I really, really enjoyed the van gogh episode.
― salsa shark, Saturday, 5 June 2010 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink
amy was really good in this one, i thought!
― gin bunny (c sharp major), Saturday, 5 June 2010 18:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
there was this sense of 'the doctor explains grown-up emotions to amy' that felt kind of right, her immaturity/tendency to shy away from emotion was a definite thing.
― gin bunny (c sharp major), Saturday, 5 June 2010 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
scottish agenda...
― koogs, Saturday, 5 June 2010 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
So no need to buy a bale of hay for the naysayers?
― ô_o (Nicole), Saturday, 5 June 2010 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
End was ridiculously mawkish, with 'For Amy' written on Sunflowers (which isn't - and I don't think has ever been - in the Musee D'Orsay), also that Amy (who, it appears, quite respects his work) thinks turning up about 5 weeks before he shoots himself will make such a difference that he'll live happily ever after. Also managed to get the actual history horrendously wrong - he only lived at Auver-sur-Oise for, at most, 10 weeks and had painted pretty much all his notable works by then, and in fact had started being exhibited with some success and fame. He had also cut off (most of) his famously missing ear by then.
Neither The Doctor nor Amy recognise that what they've done is what drives him to kill himself; the unattainability of Amy, who we are encouraged to believe is his one true love, or the knowledge he will never again know the enormity of travelling in time and space, or the certainty he will only be world famous AN ETERNITY after his death (unless we consciously acknowledge how late in his life this occurs, therefore he has had a number of attempts on his own life by then, but exposes the sloppy writing).
The monster was utterly pointless and added the sqare root of fuck all to the plot apart from OMG MONSTAH YOU ARE ALONE JUST LIKE ME CAN YOU SEE EMOWUB (Slight Return). Plus, how do you get a giant invisible alium corpse out of a church through a small door and what do you do with it? (Also "I didn't mean to kill it, I just attacked it in the chest with a spikey thing" - what the fuck were you intending to do exactly then, EH?)
Could have been fine, felt like a massive return to the worst excesses of the Rusty era instead. Amy was better this week, admittedly.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Saturday, 5 June 2010 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah or maybe Van Gogh just realised he had to top himself in order to be famous
― mdskltr (blueski), Saturday, 5 June 2010 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
These one-off episodes where they go back in time and visit a historical figure are never, ever good.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Saturday, 5 June 2010 21:37 (2 years ago) Permalink
The guy playing Van Gogh's acting was almost like he wasn't in the same TV programme as the Doctor and Amy.
Probably my least favourite episode ever and all I have to look forward to is James fucking Corden?
― Jarlrmai, Saturday, 5 June 2010 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink
liked this, would have liked it better without random monstery-monster.
― stet, Saturday, 5 June 2010 22:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Missed a trick, monster ought to have been a chimera. Otherwise, loved it.
― baby you can drive my kaur (suzy), Saturday, 5 June 2010 22:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
Monster was pretty bollocks...looked like a chicken imo.
But I loved the ending, 'For Amy' was daft but Amys life lesson was quite moving, and Vincent crying to see his legacy more than made up for a lot of the hokeyness. And was quite moved by Nighys hundred words on the greatness of VG, how he used his pain to show ecstasy of beauty. Nicely heartfelt.
― VegemiteGrrrl, Saturday, 5 June 2010 23:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Ministry of Art....and...Artiness"
― VegemiteGrrrl, Sunday, 6 June 2010 00:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
I thought the best thing about the monster was how it looked like a chicken.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Sunday, 6 June 2010 00:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
It was the late lamented chickenbear.
― ô_o (Nicole), Sunday, 6 June 2010 00:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Sunday, 6 June 2010 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
I really liked this! To me, best by far of the the historical figure episodes, and I was pretty moved by the end.
― Nhex, Sunday, 6 June 2010 02:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also liked how the alien was a really small focus in the episode - mostly it was about Van Gogh and Amy. Really liked the way the aftermath of Rory's death was handled as well - if Tennant was still in the role, it would be silent moping, vs. the most active efforts to make up for it with Smith, trying to counter Amy's forgotten, inherent grief.
― Nhex, Sunday, 6 June 2010 02:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
Amy, who we are encouraged to believe is his one true love
we are not! we are encouraged to believe he is super lonely and depressive and latches on to a pretty girl who turns up and is nice to him without apparent reason (and appears to also be Dutch) - it is hard to read this as one true love stuff! randomly proposing and i-love-you-ing a girl you've just met isn't hearts-in-eyes-love-at-first-sight, it's just badly done flirtation.
― gin bunny (c sharp major), Sunday, 6 June 2010 02:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
I enjoyed this one, much more than the last two-parter.
― Don Homer (kingfish), Sunday, 6 June 2010 07:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
we are not!
I say we are, both of them fantasise about the kids they'll have together and (actual timelines be damned) she inspires him to paint sunflowers which is series of 9 or 10 paintings and, to the casual observer, is what he's most famous for.
Plus it's Richard fucking Curtis we're talking about here. To pick Notting Hill as a typical example, bookseller bumps into Hollywood star who it turns out is his one true love because a year later for not much of an apparent reason she gives it all up to live with him and get pregnant.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 6 June 2010 10:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
I gotta side with C# there, the whole "let's marry and have a dozen kids!" really seemed more light and flirty than serious
― Nhex, Sunday, 6 June 2010 10:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
also, she isn't the only one who inspires him to paint sunflowers - they're also on the coffin of the peasant girl killed by the blind raging chickenbear (which fit q well with his 'they're alive and dead at the same time' problem with the flower).
― gin bunny (c sharp major), Sunday, 6 June 2010 10:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
Thought the dozen kids line was the PG rated version of 'would shag your brains out'.
― baby you can drive my kaur (suzy), Sunday, 6 June 2010 10:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
> Plus, how do you get a giant invisible alium corpse out of a church through a small door
the same way it got in?
― koogs, Sunday, 6 June 2010 10:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
What, you encourage the corpse to walk back out again? That's some trick.
That might be OK were this not a show that only a couple of years ago had people being given blow jobs by paving slabs, and currently being run by the guy who invented an "I'll fuck anything with a pulse" guy from the future who once hid a giant gun up his arse (or urethra was a possibility, I suppose). Rusty (and Moffatt) have made this show overtly sexual, so no reason to be coy about it now.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 6 June 2010 10:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Also, why wasn't Bill Nighy in the end credits, yet some very minor extras were? Odd.
― BLOODY BOLLOCKS HELL! (aldo), Sunday, 6 June 2010 10:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
doctor who blow jobs paving slabsAbout 4,670 results (0.34 seconds)
i totally forgot about the ending to that episode! srsly though, the van gogh thing was just being cute
― Nhex, Sunday, 6 June 2010 11:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
"Who's Rory?" ;_;
Didn't know Van Gogh was Scottish.
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 6 June 2010 11:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
the gun up Jack's arse was tiny.
no Nighy in the credits IS odd.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 6 June 2010 11:55 (2 years ago) Permalink
also Script editor Emma Freud. cosy.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 6 June 2010 12:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
YOU GUYS, THE TARDIS WAS ON FIRE!
The Bill Nighy bit when they took Vincent back to the museum in 2010 = sniffle, oops, I have something in my eye. And, yes, Amy much better this week.
― ailsa, Sunday, 6 June 2010 12:27 (2 years ago) Permalink
(except for "For Amy" bleurgh yuk pass the sickbag etc)
― ailsa, Sunday, 6 June 2010 12:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
> What, you encourage the corpse to walk back out again? That's some trick.
no, but if it got in then there's a door big enough to get it out again, not just the small door you mentioned.
besides, if an invisible alien can exist then an invisible alien lifting device can. if the tardis can tow the earth then a lickle invisible monster should be a doddle.
> YOU GUYS, THE TARDIS WAS ON FIRE!
that was just the fly posters burning off
― koogs, Sunday, 6 June 2010 13:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
I wish they'd done more with the monster, it was a good idea that they killed off too early and seemed to be in there just because you have to have a monster. The last 15mins or so was ridiculously cloying and mawkish and using Doves or whoever in the museum was utterly terrible.
I also have some issues with playing with actual history (and getting it wrong) in this way when it's a kids' show. At least the Dickens and Shakespeare episodes didn't toy with key moments of their lives.
People need to stop letting Richard Curtis write things. The 'oh I met Picasso' stuff got so irritating.
Dare I say it that the premise of next week's episode looks pretty good despite Corden?
― Matt DC, Sunday, 6 June 2010 13:30 (2 years ago) Permalink
this was a lot better than the Shakespeare one still
shame on the Doctor for casually tearing off the fly posters. classic artwork right there!
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 6 June 2010 13:33 (2 years ago) Permalink
the 'if you have been affected by the issues raised in this program' bit was odd. invisible monsters? time travel? your tardis on fire? those issues?
― koogs, Sunday, 6 June 2010 13:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
I liked the monster more thinking of it as the man with mental illness battling invisible demons only he can see.
Bet Curtis was well pleased with himself after dreaming up that one.
― James Mitchell, Sunday, 6 June 2010 13:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
Depression, koogs.
― ailsa, Sunday, 6 June 2010 13:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
the 'if you have been affected by the issues raised in this program' bit was odd
presumably the suicide and mental illness aspects. i guess they handled these quite well tho, for a family show.
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 6 June 2010 13:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
alium was unecessary, coldplay-alikes were even worse than Gold, Amy thinking time would have been rewritten drastically (even more than the plot did, ho ho) was crap. but I pretty much enjoyed it!
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Sunday, 6 June 2010 14:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
Alium was OK (though lol yes chickenbear), except how many more lost-soul-last-of-their-kind-left-behind aliums can we get?
― ailsa, Sunday, 6 June 2010 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
i prefer it to invading hordes. the alien chicken was hardly un-necessary considering it was the whole reason they were there. one wonders tho why the Doctor (or anyone else) was not aware of it before assuming the original version of the painting featured the monster - thought there was going to be some alt-dimension time-rewritten reasoning behind that before they went and changed the past/future themselves (never good - half expected the monster to fade out from the painting BTTF style).
― mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 6 June 2010 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink
We're getting a lot more nods to previous doctors (the rear-view-mirror alium-recognising device throwing out pics of previous reincarnations), presume this is a Moffat history-acknowledgement thing rather than Rusty thinking Who began and would end with him?
― ailsa, Sunday, 6 June 2010 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink
was hardly un-necessary considering it was the whole reason they were there.
nonsense, if Amy was such a big van Gogh fan they could have bloody set the TARDIS to go visit him in the first place instead of just going to a bloody museum from her own time
one wonders tho why the Doctor (or anyone else) was not aware of it before assuming the original version of the painting featured the monster
yes exactly
― Señor Communications Adviser (sic), Sunday, 6 June 2010 15:23 (2 years ago