Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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Annoyingly over-sated 70s-80s champions of everything in sight vs 90s occasional pseudo-relegation candidates.

Irritatingly omnipresent chirpy-scouse cliché-mongers / Spice Boys vs austere technicians of School of Science.

'Anfield Rap' vs 'Z-Cars'.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

austere technicians of School of Science.

surely pinefox, that would be crap bunglers that are ultra-boring to watch?

― gareth, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

This forum had reached rock bottom.

― Nick, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

But now it's back firing on all cylinders due to the new football season being nearly upon us? I'm sure this is what you meant to say.

― Jonnie, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool all the way. Strangely enough the only reason I follow Liverpool is because they were the first team I saw on tv when I was wee that played in red. Jesus, I could have been a Man U fan, what a blessed relief.

I don't like Everton much at all (sorry Mike)but it's a lot like the Arsenal/Spurs thing isn't it? Everton hate Liverpool far more than the other way round, largely I suspect to the aftermath of Heysel and the implications this had on Everton's great side of the late eighties.

ahhh football, I love it so much

― cabbage, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Nick D: what on earth do you mean?

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Mythology of Liverpool (club and city) - i.e. chirpy friendly loveable Scousers - ultra-DUD.

Liverpool as team - never that exciting to watch but classic towards the end of last season and for periods in 70s / 80s, though extraordinarily dud for much of 90s. Steve McManaman was and is uber- classic, Robbie Fowler's worldview and attitude as dud as they get.

Everton - "School of Science" mythology dead for years now, can't remember when they last had a good, watchable footballing side. One trophy post-1987 in FA Cup Final against a demoralised Man Utd during the Cantona ban. Says it all, really.

The theme from Z Cars? It's a good tune. The Anfield Rap is a time capsule.

― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tranmere, surely.

"Austere technicians......". WHAT??

More like a rest home for the perma-crocked (Big Dunc, Gazza), foriegners who shouldn't be in the premiership (Tal, Nyarko, Xavier,Max-Moore), and earnest-but-useless donkeys (Unsworth,S. Watson,Pembridge,Gough).

They'll never win anything with W. Smith at the helm - he's assembled a squad of overpaid underachievers which almost rivals the classic Man City squads of the early 90's (and 2000/2001). Two decent home- grown players in the last 5 years, and one is now gone (Jeffers), the other (Ball) will go by Christmas.

Having said all that I do have a soft spot for Everton, for no good reason that I can bring to mind. A couple of good hairstyles over the years too - John Bailey's uber-scouser permed mullet from the 80's and Alan Whittle's "Einstein" blonde shock from the early 70's.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

May I please have a medal of honor?

― Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

No.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'm going to put my neck on the block and say I think Liverpool are going to win the Premiership this year.

― Madchen, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'm going to put my neck on the head-rest and say that Liverpool are not going to win the Premiership this year.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Madchen, if only that were true, I would be so happy, but you have to look at the strengthening Imperial Lord Ferg has been doing, signing two of the world's best players on top of an outstanding squad, forming what has to be the best midfield in the world.

the top three this year will be

Man United

Liverpool

Leeds or Chelsea

But if Liverpool do win it I will be a very very happy Cabbage

― cabbage, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Gotta go with Everton only because Liverpool are now the most boring team in the world. I saw them play Valencia last thursday and I had to leave the stadium after 30 minutes because it's a bit embarassing to fall asleep in front of a big crowd. My God, what useless bunch: 4577 passes between defenders, finally followed by one pass forward with the hope Owen finishes it.

Besides they won against Real Madrid in the '81 final so that makes them one of Satan's clubs (same with that bastard win against AS Roma in '84).

― Omar, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Is that the Everton in Chile or the other one?

what has to be the best midfield in the world.

I was going to say something knee-jerk about Real Madrid's, but, no, I think cabbage is right. Still, Arsenal is surely still a better team than Chelsea. Lampard and Petit can't make that big a difference, can they?

― scott p., Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

why are all you discussing corporate mainstream football anyway? you'd think music lovers would know that nothing good ever happened in a stadium. ditch the money grabbing sponsorship whores and get with the real gritty passion and feeling that can only be experienced at lo-fi local sunday league games. footie 4 real. long live plumley celtic.

― kevan, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Scott, I have a gut feeling about Chelsea, based largely on the late surge they made at the back end of last season. They've also got rid of Wise, who was a disruptive factor in their midfield and brought in Lampard who I rate very highly, especially for his goalscoring. Ranieri might finally have got over his language problems too, which can only help. Also look at Arsenal's defence, Ashley Cole is coming through but who else? Keown isn't what he was, Adams is retiring and has Sulzeer been the same player since the 98 world cup? No, especially with his dodgy legs. I think Arsenal will be in the top 5, no more.

― cabbage, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

liverpoool etc = manufactured boy-band sellout
plumley etc = indie lo -fi high-morality
subbuteo = free-jazz goth techno
all = zenith of human boring culture

― mark s, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Mark S therefore != a dangerously gorgeous tomboyish girl, I'm afraid.

― Tim, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Those scummy gooners will get their comeuppance this season. Chelsea? I don't think Ranieri has enough control over the major players in their team. Liverpool and Leeds will push Man Utd closest especially if Leeds can get a good season out of Kewell. As for the mighty Spurs, I fancy us to get a uefa spot one way or another this season.

― Jonnie, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Cabbage - you seem to be suggesting Evertonian hatred of the Red Filth began on a sultry May night in 1985. We've *always* hated them. I'd date it back to the moment EFC were forced out of Anfield in the 1890s and the new owners assembled a new team (almost entirely Scottish imports - they'd developed a passing game up north, eerily prescient of LFC's late 70s style) and had the cheek to name it after the entire *city*.

I know a fair few Blue-hating Reds - in recent years, they seem to have been most frustrated by our irritating inability to finally GO DOWN and be done with it. I suspect (last season apart - which I still feel is some long, awful nightmare from which I will wake to find myself in the Blue Bottle pub in Crystal Palace, with Birmingham City about to convert every one of their penalties) that this has caused them much more grief than LFC's post-Souness dalliance with the top six has upset Evertonians.

In that sense, Liverpool's dominance in the 70s and 80s has let the Blues off the hook; LFC are still expected to win things, EFC merely to avoid the drop.

I'm not remotely optimistic, btw. The Man City comparison is a fair one; our squad is the blackest comedy. I can't even see us emulating the performances of 95-96 (post-Cup victory, Kanchelskis-inspired attacking team, almost qual for UEFA) or the first half of 99-00 (Campbell and Jeffers aflame, goals galore), much less win anything.

I'll be devoting all my armchair energies to roaring LFC on to fourth position - in their Champions League group, natch.

― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

You're assuming they'll qualify, MJ.

― Tim, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tim: I prefer to imagine a long drawn-out Autumn of Misery for LFC, than some bizarre August reverse against some team of ten-year-old girls from Spitzbergen (or whoever it is).

― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

And a Spring of Joy for EFC, of course.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

As a Chelsea fan, I have a gut-feeling about the coming season too. Lampard, Gallas and Petit certainly strengthen the squad vs the now- departed Wise, Poyet and Lebouef, but is it enough? We have to learn to play as a team to succeed. If Gronkjaer is consistent, if Stanic and Le Saux stay fit and if someone other than Jimmy H can get goals, we'll probably be top 3, but my money is on 7th or 8th at Christmas, and Ranieri to be sacked in January.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Everton.

― Ally C, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I dont feel as if I get quite enough attention oh this thread

― Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Dr C, you're relying on Jimmy Hill to score goals?

― Madchen, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Here's to the mighty Gillingham -- my team, oh yes. I had Craig Brown of the Mission UK tell me to my face that I should be rights be supporting a team that actually gets somewhere, like his hometown squad of Leeds. I have taken this under advisement.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool FC = Dud, the Man U of my adolesence. Everton = OK, won the league in the '80's, now the final grazing place of ne'er do wells and ex-stars.

― jel, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Ned: under no circumstances should you do anything as rotten as support Leeds - their players have been known to (allegedly) assault innocent townsfolk. Now, what used to bother me about Everton was the way everyone kept calling them a big club and proclaiming the fact that this year (the year being 92/3/4/5/6) they were going to make a go of it rather than crawling along the bottom of the division. Thankfully, that seems to have stopped and everyone has accepted they are a Southampton kind of club. In which case, I have no problem with them at all.

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

They *are* a big club, and they *are* going to make a go of it some time soon. Surely!

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

"Everton are a big club" - This is also known as Manchester City Delusional Syndrome aka Wolverhampton Wanderers Cognative Dissonance. Can also plague fans of Tottenham Hotspur and even the odd troubled Nottingham Forest season ticket holder

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

see also: Birmingham city (sleeping giants???)

Mike, I know that EFC fans hated Liverpool for years but from a few fans I sense that the bitterest grudge comes from not seeing that great side win the European Cup in 1986 or 1987.

But really what is the bitterest hate between footy fans? Is it Arsenal/Spurs? Rangers/Celtic? Sunderland/Newcastle? Real/Barca?

My vote: Boca Juniors/River Plate in Argentina, they don't fight in car parks, they have drive by shootings for crying out loud!

― cabbage, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Cabbage: you're probably right about the Heysel thing. I certainly wasn't best pleased.

Mark: the whole 'big club' business. I remember being taunted about that in the early 80s - the difference now, I think, is that (post-Sky/Premiership) the 'bigness' of certain clubs is cemented in place a bit more firmly. The likelihood of EFC performing a relelgation-candidates-with-bulging-transfer-list (under Lee) to European-trophy-winners-full-of-internationals (under Kendall) five-year transformation *now* is minute. We missed the boat in the early 90s and, yes, there's not much difference between us and the Southamptons of this world now.

*Historically*, of course - there's no comparison between EFC and the other 'delusional' clubs you mentioned. 9 times champions, 5 FA Cups, most seasons in top flight, yada yada yada. All a bit meaningless, of course - this slump could easily last as long as the one post-WW2: by the early 50s, Dean, Lawton and Mercer were long-gone and EFC were in the 2nd Div.

I look forward eagerly to Ian Ross *once again* dragging out the 'School of Science' albatross in the Guardian on Mondays over the next few months, for a lame joke and a dig in the ribs of a club already on its knees. I know a Red when I read one.

― Michael Jones, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Historically*, of course - there's no comparison between EFC and the other 'delusional' clubs you mentioned

OK I've seen the red rag and gone full tilt at it. What nonsense! Spurs were the first team to do the double in the 20th Century, the first british team to win a European trophy, only trail in FA cup victories to Man Yoo etc.etc.. I'm sure supporters of the other clubs could trot out similar stats.

― Jonnie, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Huddersfield Town are a MASSIVE club, ok? we dominated English football about 50 years before i was born. SLEEPING GIANTS I TELL YA. NO, REALLY!!!! NURSE?!

― gareth, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

*sigh* I knew I shouldn't have risen to Mark M's bait.

Fans will define success in which ever manner best suits their club's historical strengths; Spurs are obviously a great Cup team, who did something in 1961 which had previously been considered 'impossible' in the 'modern' game (unfortunately, the Double became pretty routine in the 90s). Forest fans will wallow in their club's European successes. Wolves fans might have a claim on their side being the best in Europe in the mid-50s (before Euro club competition), but might struggle to claim supremacy in even the West Midlands since. Man City deserve their special status simply for not being Man United.

I figured league titles is as good a measure as any: of the aforementioned clubs, Wolves have 3 titles (all won in the 1950s), City and Spurs two each, Forest one. Everton have nine, which puts us 4th in the all-time list behind Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal.

If those three clubs are the *biggest*, we can argue all day about who leads the chasing pack. There's a strong case for saying Leeds Utd, based on their decade of consistency under Revie. *Maybe* Spurs, with all those FA Cups. But Everton, with 98 seasons out of 102 in the top flight and those nine championships, would (surprise!) be my pick.

Not that we're about to close the gap at all...

― Michael Jones, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Today's Guardian: Derek Hatton: I WAS THERE WHEN EVERTON WON THE CUP WINNERS' CUP

Goodison Park was absolutely heaving.... I bought tickets in the main stand with the lads, despite the fact that I was leader of Liverpool City Council at the time.... the noise was just incredible.... [The goal by Trevor Steven] simply captured the brilliance of that team and the glory of watching them. He received the ball on the left and gracefully lobbed the goalkeeper from quite some distance. That moment was better than any amount of sec you can possibly imagine.... Steven's run and lob probably lasted six seconds in total, but it seemed like 10 minutes. It was all about the majestic manner in which he did it and the perfect timing.... Only he had the grace and flow of movement to produce a moment of sheer majesty that could encapsulate the team's brilliance.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 07:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

'sec' = 'sex', of all things.

Personally I think the goal was better than lots of sec, but beyond that I'm not sure.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 07:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

Question that looking at this thread again raises: has the gap between the 2 clubs closed at all since we discussed it? I think possibly it has.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 07:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

Ahh, perhaps one of my most favourite ever threads!

In a way yes, although Everton are still a loooooong way of challenging for the league. But they do seem better under Moyes (the only British Premier league manager who has a UEFA coaching license apart from Fergie who used his nefarious powers to make himself get one due to ten years in the job) than they were with Smithy. But results such as the one against Man City trhe other week will always count against them. Inconsistecy, that's the problem.

― chris (chris), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:01 (10 years ago) Permalink

I come back to find the PF slating first Pynchon and now LFC. Is this a conspiracy? He naturally misrepresents the opposition which is more Z-Cars vs You'll Never Walk Alone. (PF's apparent hatred of LFC is probably a clinamenic swerve away from his unutterable distaste for the Gooners).

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

I liked your crappo prediction for last year's champions, chris.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

Also, I hate Kenny Glaldish, too.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 08:21 (10 years ago) Permalink

Actually I can only assume the Nipper is projecting his own fears for LFC onto others. Personally I haven't been so keen on them since May 1989.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 08:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

(That means: I would like it if they won the League. Or even the Premiership.)

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 08:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

my prediction least year was indeed, rub.

― chris (chris), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Merseyside derby approaching... and when were the two clubs last as closely matched as this?

It's up for grabs now!

― the pinefox, Monday, 25 November 2002 17:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

PF, the derby is always up for grabs. The pre-match media hype will of course concern Rooney, Rooney, Rooney whereas Owen will get a hat-trick.

Why haven't you been so keen on the greatest football club in the world since May 1989 then?

― Venga, Monday, 25 November 2002 19:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

*There's an argument that says that the Auld Firm buy up all middling-good-to-great players of the lower SPL teams thereby helping to suppress competition and maintain the monstrous gap. Meanwhile they don't play the players. So they just take them away for spite/utility. Poss. then that the SPL would become a better league if the Auld Firm went south.

The league has improved quite a lot over the last two years though. I'm impressed.

Some people say that this is the last year before Celtic will need a major overhaul; this team is on its way out. I say that the team is over-staying by one year and that the re-jig should have occurred before 2002-3. In the summer lull. Thomson out, he's as much a chimera as Craig Burley (the Celtic edition), Sylla out (another example of * above), so many other people. Leaving the backbone: Larsson, Sutton, Hartson, Hedman, Mjallby, Lambert/Lennon axis. Build around that, with an eye to getting rid of one of the 2Ls.

- dwh.

― dwh (dwh), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:47 (10 years ago) Permalink

Liked Bill Kenwright's line about changing the name of the Blues' website to WWWWWW.everton.com. And let's please have no more debate about who's going to replace David Seaman as England's #1. Ferchrissakes, how many clean sheets do you want?

I'm loving this little run, obv - but I expect it to end at Newcastle. I do genuinely expect us to be ahead of the red filth by the time The Golden Child signs that contract though. Of course, we'll start to slide in the spring - of course, we'll be mediocre again when the injuries come. But this is a far more impressive core EFC team than the one Royle took to Wembley and the top six in the mid-90s, or the free-scoring Campbell/Jeffers-led side that fancied a stab at a UEFA place for two-thirds of 99-00. Things have changed. Out of the Dark Ages at last.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 25 November 2002 23:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

And let's please have no more debate about who's going to replace David Seaman as England's #1.

CHRIS KIRKLAND. HAHA!

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 10:15 (10 years ago) Permalink

CHRIS KIRKLAND. HAHA!

Ooh, he might even get a game for his club now Jerzy Nolongerclassicek is flailing a bit.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 15:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

jerzy's still the man.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

Out of the Dark Ages at last.

False dawn!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 19:18 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

hoo hoo

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 16 December 2002 03:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

I fear the derby now. Liverpool's appalling run surely can't go much further. They may very soon Bounce Back. In an ideal world, they'll be out of both domestic cups and 10pts off the title pace in a month's time, but I know I'm hoping for too much.

Losing to Sunderland though, sheesh.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 16 December 2002 07:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

Im enjoying Pool's bad run, but I think it will end with the Merseyside Derby. I think it will be the point where Liverpool AND Everton's seasons start to go in opposite directions, sadly. In fairness to Pool, they're not far off the pace, points-wise. Even Arsenal have lost four already, and I reckon the Gunners will end up winning the Premiership. But that's another story.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 16 December 2002 09:19 (10 years ago) Permalink

You could be right - at the moment, suspensions are far more of a worry to EFC's shallow squad than injuries, but they will come and losing Yobo, Gravesen, Radzinski, TheGoldenChild et al for any length of time will see us slide. I don't see us in the bottom half at any point, though.

I don't know quite what to make of the Liverpool slump - previous winter blips have always carried an air of inevitability about them, as if LFC were riding their luck a little to be where they were, and a rough patch balanced things up. This season, Liverpool could (and should) have won their opening 12 league games and yet now seem utterly bereft of ideas - the swing seems more extreme than before. Alan Green is not a man to be trusted, but he was scathing about both teams on R5 yesterday.

So, on the one hand, Liverpool seem ripe for the picking by an organised, fluent Everton side full of confidence. On the other, they're, erm, spawny gets who might not lose again until March.

I dunno. I plan to go on a long walk next Sunday.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 16 December 2002 12:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

What... to Anfield?

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 17 December 2002 12:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

Revival time...

Final whistle goes at Anfield in a match described by the BBC as "tedious". Of course, I was a great big knotty bundle of scrunched-up bags of entangled nerves, so no trip to a Sky-sporting pub or earphones blaring R5 for me... contented myself with housework, a couple of Sea and Cake LPs and the 'live text' updates on the Beeb's website.

Seemed like LFC edged it, Rooney hit the bar and there were a flurry of nasty tackles and yellow cards at the end.

Thank God that's over. Merry Xmas everybody.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 22 December 2002 18:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

Do you mean it was 0-0, Michael? And what about the Man U-Blackburn game? (A less lazy person might visit a football website, of course...)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 22 December 2002 18:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yes, it was goalless, just like in the 70s (well, usually).

Blackburn beat United 1-0, with a first-half Flitcroft goal. Some ex-international who's been knocking around the MUFC reserves came on for the last half-hour, to no great effect.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 22 December 2002 19:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

I thought it was a good game. Everton played like men possessed. It was like Joe Royle's dogs of war. Stubbs was heroic.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 22 December 2002 23:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

It gladdens me no end to read that, Kilian. It was the defence I was most worried about, what with Yobo and Unsworth missing.

It was specifically Jim O'Rourke's "I Took The Opportunity To Antique My End Table" remix off Two Gentlemen that got me through the last seven minutes, if anyone's interested. It could work with, say, Brum-Villa too.

Any thoughts on just what Stevie G was trying to do with that 'tackle'? Apart from end Naysmith's career, that is.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

He says that he was trying to pull out, and I must admit that through my red-tinged eyes it looked that way live too, if he had wanted to end Naysmiths career there he could have done, but his studs landed short of doing it.

For what it's worth I agree with Radio 5, neither team deserved to win it, but as the Guardian said this morning, Moyes bringing on Roonaldo just as the uintroductyion of Heskey and Smicer (who would ever have thought I'd write that sentence?) was a tactical masterstroke.

― chris (chris), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'd just like to point out that while it's nice to have a thread for the Merseyside also-rans, 2003 will be Chelsea's year. I already have my ticket for the final home game v Liverpool, and I look forward to celebrating as we clinch the title by trouncing the reds. Rather like we stuffed Everton already - twice.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:15 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'd love to see an end to the Red hegemony, and the least evil option from the traditional chasing pack (EFC being Xmas guests, maybe on a visitors' visa) is a Chelsea triumph. You certainly stuffed us in the Worthless Cup, but quite how you got away from Goodison with three points is a bit of a mystery. Any team with Zola ain't all bad.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

dr c, it is not long since you were calling for ranieris head!

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 23:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Oh no -- according to the www, Liverpool are losing at home to Crystal Palace!

Let's hope they survive.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

I was hoping for that result, and for Gillingham to beat Leeds, so that we'd have Gillingham vs Palace on live TV.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

That's a bit of a shocker! an own goal to compound the misery as well!

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

And palace were a man down for the last 20 mins.

Still never mind, they'll be able to concentrate on the league... must practice saying that for when Chris gets in....

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

2-0 to the Palace! And ten man Palace!

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

Concentrate on the league? What, on finishing sixth?

Fantastic. They'll be dancing on Westow Hill tonight.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yes, Liverpool can still qualify for Europe this season!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

intertoto

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

oh, yeah, forgot about the league cup final.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

Tom can you delete Gerard Houllier please.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:33 (10 years ago) Permalink

Quoi?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

And the rest of the club too.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:50 (10 years ago) Permalink

that heskey miss was sensational

― zemko (bob), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I heard Gerard say recently that Liverpool have actually had more shots on target than any other team in the P-ship this season - I guess they just haven't been very good shots on target. And judging by last night's performance I can believe it. So does mean that Liverpool's problem isn't lack of width/creative players but rather that the front pairing isn't right? Should Baros be given an extended spell in the 1st team? Should we sell Owen while we could still get big bucks for him?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

JtN's last sentance would have been sacrilegous 6 months or more ago, but it's looking more and more like good business sense, I've had two very in-depth discussions about him on the last week and the topic has come round to one thing. Owen relies on one shot, the curled shot past the keeper into the top right of the goal, you can see him do it every time. However, now his confidence is low, he seems to be scuffing a hella lot more than he connects with, leading to the current plight. Can we wait for the confidence? I don't know to be honest, but Baros has played well enough to give him a run out. Maybe resting Owen for more than just one game could be the answer, not to do with tiredness but to do with him realisisng that he needs to fight for his place.

Word is that Reebok are sponsoring Liverpool to the tune of 100 million and that iit's going to be spent on players (hmmm, and not the new Anfield), but if we ain't in the hampions league, we ain't gong to get the best.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

Maybe it depends who's choosing them. Houllier spent 43 million on the following outfield ten:

Heggem, Xavier, Traore, Vignal; Cheyrou, Diomede, Biscan, Smicer; Diouf, Heskey.

What a team, eh? To be fair, in a few cases, they helped win LFC those three cups. But a few more were intended to take LFC to the next level. Next level down, I guess. Houllier does seem to be becoming increasingly paranoid and delusional though (not necessarily about the shots-on-goal thing - they do waste a lot of chances, think of the 0-0 home draw with Sunderland).

Or is this a False Dusk?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 6 February 2003 13:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

I hope it is Jonesy, I really do.

Out of those ten, I would keep Vignal (will be good in the future and was pretty cheap, he was flying before he got injured), Diouf (apparently had his best 45 minutes for Liverpool in the first half last night) and of course Heskey, who is a god to me (but I haven't seen *that* miss yet).

Smicer though? the sooner we're rid of him the better, he's rubbish. And I ain't too sure about Cheyrou either.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 13:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

if we'd scored even a third of the chances we got last night then we'd have been hailing a very good performance but then that's been the case all season, hasn't it? some strange noises coming out of anfield re. hamann yesterday also.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:03 (10 years ago) Permalink

What were these strange noises? Animal noises? Or some kind of spooky chanting?

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

when i say "that's been the case all season" i am not saying that's been the only reason we've had such a poor season, just that we've missed an impossible number of good goalscoring opportunities. they'd make a video in themselves.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

the noises were a cross between squeaky trainers and blowing raspberries.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

and they were sounding as if they were saying "come to Bayern Didi"

― chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

i'm not convinced by the lack of width problem, arsenal don't have flying wingers either tho they do have a tighter pitch (hem hem), tho pires n' ljungberg are masters of timing. murphy and cheyrou are good enough i think

diouf is sadly maligned but i don't think he'll ever be the ticket. squeezing a bit of value out of him by playing him on the wing won't fool anyone

i love cheyrou!! don't u think he looks really good in possession

― zemko (bob), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think he looks really good full stop.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think he looks a bit panicked in posession, maybe he needs to get used to the premiership's pace (what a cliche!) or something, but the slagging he got last night on 606 would indicate something wrong with at least last night's performance.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

Maybe resting Owen for more than just one game could be the answer, not to do with tiredness but to do with him realisisng that he needs to fight for his place.

If it's good enough for Dudek, then it should be good enough for Golden Boy.

― Venga, Friday, 7 February 2003 11:36 (10 years ago) Permalink

resting dudek my arse! if kirkland hadn't got himself then dudek would never have played again, such is houllier's 'master plan'

― zemko (bob), Friday, 7 February 2003 11:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

got himself injured rather

― zemko (bob), Friday, 7 February 2003 11:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

Zemko, I meant that if under-performances (esp that Man U game) cost Dudek his place in the team, then his missing five sitters every game should be worthy of little Mikey being passed over for a few weeks.

Stick him in the reserves, let him net a few and get his confidence back. This is a good plan, just ask Milan Baros. Although, I still have a sinking feeling that Houllier will insist on picking MO against Boro tomorrow. Bah.

― Venga, Friday, 7 February 2003 11:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

Last night I saw Everton get thrashed 6-0 by Newcastle, and then beaten 1-2 at Goodison by a Southampton team who came back from a goal down.

I think the manager needs to stop the slide pronto, or he could be in for a rough ride.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 14:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

B-but I've signed Winston Bogarde, Ali Benarbia and Soren Krogh, we're 8th and I have the full backing of the board!

(Nipping this in the bud... any potential Championship Manager 2001/02 talk perhaps deserves its own thread. Or contempt.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:50 (10 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Revive!

It's the Goodison derby in five days' time and to my pleasant surprise (and, no doubt, to the Rednoses' astonishment) Everton remain a sliver ahead of Liverpool in the table going into it. Reading my cautious blabberings above I think I expected us to be about 11th by Easter weekend.

So, what do we reckon? EFC still grinding out narrow victories, LFC vacillating between brilliant and dismal. I suspect a lot rests on Radzinski's fitness and Hyppia's suspension status.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 14 April 2003 11:20 (10 years ago) Permalink

It's just impossible to tell with Liverpool these days, without being vindictive I really hope Houllier leaves this summer but it doesn't look likely.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 April 2003 12:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

If Liverpool are at their best they can win it, but who knows how good they'll be on the day? Anyone's guess. I hope Everton win, I hope Houllier goes - they are so dull to watch!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 14 April 2003 16:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

dr c dodged my ranieri question!

what are you thinking re: chelsea now dr.c?

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 11:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

I woz wrong - CR is a good manager. We fight, we play good football and we win, so overall I'm happy.

At the moment I am extremely worried that we will end up fifth - the Villa loss was a dreadful result. I think West Ham might be a tough game as they need the points and they've beaten us once already this season. For next season we need a stronger/larger squad, espec. for Europe - we've been quite lucky with injuries this year, but may not get away with it again. Big problem - no money Priorities - a) a ballwinner to replace Petit and release Lampard b) an international striker - JimmyFloyd's era may be up, Zola needs handling carefully at 37 and Cole is not yet ready. I'd love to get Beattie, but they can't afford him. c) an attacking/wide or central midfielder to give more cover there. I think DeLucas will come good eventually, but Gronkjaer wavers and Stanic is dreadful.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

Oh, well, someone had to revive this. After Easter weekend I didn't have the heart.

Everton really running out of steam now - bringing Big Dunc on for the last half hour and pitching balls up for him smacks of the bad old days (but nice when they rebound to Wayne's left foot). Very little going on in midfield, a true creative drought in the derby and simply outpassed by Chelsea (again). Radzinski can't come back quickly enough.

Liverpool now finishing as strongly as they did in 2000-01 (didn't they win 6-0 at Ipswich in the closing stages of that season?); we need a Fowler special at the Anfield Road end next Saturday.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

what do the liverpool fans think of baros now?

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

still think he's ok, he doesn't get a long enough run to be truly sure. You can't judge him on last weekend's performance, I reckon I'd have got a couple against the baggies the way they were playing.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think Wayne Rooney could decide the title.

Many people have been talking as though United will win all their remaining games. If they had Sunderland after Charlton I'd agree. But Everton, at Goodison, on the final day? I can't see United winning that. In which case, if Arsenal beat Leeds, Soton and Sunderland, the title is likely theirs - possibly on goal difference. No?

(If Arsenal *don't* win the title, Rooney will have played his part by inflicting their first defeat.)

― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2003 10:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'd be surprised if United don't beat Everton, extremely surprised, the way they're playing now.

I think Liverpool should be able to overcome their hoodoo with Chelsea, Baros still missed loads of chances against West Brom.

Though none were as bad as Lampard's glorious miss against Fulham.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 May 2003 11:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

I agree about Liverpool vs Chelsea. I think Man U will draw at Goodison. Nil-nil.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Friday, 2 May 2003 11:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think 'pool will sneak a champions' league spot, too. as for man u, i'd put my money on them to beat charlton and everton, but i'm not as certain of it as some seem to be. i wouldn't be surprised if rooney foiled us, either. maybe arsenal will slip up before the everton game (i don't think there's even a slight possibility of them dropping anything to sunderland on the last day). i'll go with man u to win the title, but i'm only about 55% sure.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 2 May 2003 11:15 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think the likeliest scenario is still the one in which United win the title this coming Sunday afternoon, *but* if it does go the distance then I think it's Arsenal's on GD.

Man Utd's Goodison victories have become depressingly routine in recent years - I think the opening day of 99-00 with Jaap Stam's hilarious own goal was the only time in the last seven or eight seasons we've got anything off them. However, we matched them for 86 minutes at Old Trafford and I refuse to contemplate a season like this one ending with the anticlimax of a home defeat to anyone...
so 1-1.

I think Liverpool will lose out on a Champions' League place on the ol' GD an' all. (Ideal scenario: they lose to both Man City and Chelsea, Everton pick up six points and the Blue Dream is realised).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 2 May 2003 13:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

Mike, I liked your use of "Ferguson" and "smack" in the same sentence. I'm only sad you forgot to include "cunt".

I was at a meeting this morning pitching to run Liverpool and Arsenal's online chatroom/community services. That'd be quite fun, I think. Apparently a previous tech employee was fired, but left himself a back door in, and then informed all the LFC users that the moderating team were all from Manchester. With sexy results!

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 2 May 2003 13:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

'Fun'?

He didn't use 'Ferguson'.

Language!

― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2003 13:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

haha, the Pinefox arguing that Arsenal will win the title!

I think one factor on the final day will be if Everton have anything to play for. If they need a result for a place in the UEFA cup, not an implausible scenario from memory (I've not checked tables), Man U will have it a lot tougher than if they have nothing to gain.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 2 May 2003 17:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'd like to think a Moyes team would make it tough for anybody regardless of the circumstances but the capitulation at Loftus Road this afternoon suggests we're in meltdown now. Pah, I get my fantasy result at Anfield and we go and score two own-goals. Blackburn breathing down our necks now for that last UEFA Cup spot, so I guess I have to hope for an Arsenal-Leeds draw and Fergie sending out the youth team at Goodison for a kickabout.

Magnitude of today's Man U victory makes the GD situation kinda interesting; United could win the title with a draw at Everton if Arsenal's three victories are only by a single-goal margin; if the Arse manage a 2-0 somewhere along the way the Gunners will win it on goals scored, as they did in (look away, Pinefox) 1989.

West Ham-Chelsea sounded like a blinder on the radio. They're still going down, of course.

All this rather irrelevant compared to events in Swansea and Exeter. What a day to get married.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 3 May 2003 17:46 (10 years ago) Permalink

What happened at Southampton?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 3 May 2003 18:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

leeds - arsenal tomorrow is going to be a great game - there's a hell of a lot to play for. wouldn't be surprised if leeds sneak a point. chelsea - liverpool should be interesting, if the 'pool hadn't conceded that late goal all they'd need was a point. anelka gets revenge on his old club, y'know.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 3 May 2003 19:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

It could be a fantastic last day. Everton with a UEFA place versus Man U still needing a win for the title, with Blackburn and Arsenal fighting for wins behind them. Chelsea-Liverpool for the last Champions' League place. West Ham, Bolton and Leeds all fighting to avoid the last relegation slot. There could be a hell of a lot still to settle, and few meaningless games.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 3 May 2003 20:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

ok, pool and everton both miss out on their european targets - a sad day on merseyside. moyes' excellence remains undoubted, but do 'pool fans wish to see the back of houllier? i think the worthington cup win (combined with a rather good record up to this season) will save him for now, but do you feel he's unable to take the next step?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

he's getting another year anyway it seems, almost impossible to see pool winning the league under him. It's sad actually, I feel sorry for him, especially the manner in which he is criticised sometimes, "old man houllier" or "madman" or whatever, it's a bit sickening sometimes.

There's a part of me that fears next year could be total meltdown.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think he's pretty short on ideas and distrusts the kind of creativity that seems necessary to get right to the top.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:19 (10 years ago) Permalink

i felt a bit sorry for him when the itv pundit started quizzing him about how he felt about anelka scoring two goals against 'pool, after he let him go. he just did this long, weary sigh, and then said something like "Your question is out of line, best decision for the club at the time, yadda yadda yadda." I can't see them making much progress under houllier, but i can't see him going either, cos he had quite a good thing going for a while.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

not a total loss, people say its the worthless cup and maybe it is, but it still was a nice day, it's still winning something, i had a big smile on my face, faith reaffirmed afterwards anyway.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 21:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

As the Pinefox said to me this afternoon, it's foolish to rely on Spurs for anything. I haven't seen the van Nistelrooy penalty incident, but it didn't matter in the end so easily did Blackburn coast to victory.

Ultimately no better than 95-96 (a false dawn before Royle found the carpet whipped from beneath him); remains to be seen whether Everton's satisfying and surprising season-long upswing will be a precursor to disintegration a la Sunderland and Ipswich (Champs Lge contenders in 99-00 and 00-01 respectively) or whether we're about to rejoin the Big Boys' Club like Newcastle and Chelsea have.

Thing that worries me the most: lack of goals. 48 in 38 Premiership games is not very good, and the only time we hit three all season was in a 4-3 defeat at Tottenham. Seven times we came from behind to win, six of them at home with three of those earned with injury-time wonder-strikes. I can only think of three league wins that could be described as comfortable (Fulham & Leeds home, Bolton away). It's all a bit precarious.

As for Liverpool, their failure to meet their own targets is some consolation for this Bitter Blue. I suppose now that the pre-Xmas slump is an annual treat for all Anfieldphobes, it'll be panic stations next season if Liverpool aren't clear at the top by the end of October. Failure in the Cups and out of touch with the leaders and Houllier might go next January. There's an awful lot of talent there, it doesn't seem to be being marshalled terribly well. The Reds need a Moyes. Or an Allardyce!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 11 May 2003 21:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

people say its the worthless cup and maybe it is, but it still was a nice day, it's still winning something

Has winning a trophy ever rung so hollow? Or losing one mattered so little?

― James Ball (James Ball), Monday, 12 May 2003 08:02 (10 years ago) Permalink

Whatever James, I'm sure you weren't saying that on the day.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 12 May 2003 08:36 (10 years ago) Permalink

Considering it was you lot, I was actually quite relaxed about losing. (Would've preferred to win it obviously.)

Unhappy at first, but seeing the Liverpool players celebrate it like they'd just won the treble cheered me up no end.

Considering everything that's happened, saving our worst performance of the second half of the season for that game was a blessing.

― James Ball (James Ball), Monday, 12 May 2003 08:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure about Moyes. He has taken a team who had been struggling around the fringes of relegation for some years and turned them into a team who only just failed to reach Europe, but Michael's analysis I think points at a limitation - well organised and not easy to beat, but short on creativity. If Rooney comes through the way we all expect and scores 20+ next season, maybe that solves the problem, but he might have to make a good few of them as well as score them. It's a long time since a team won this league without a real streak of flair (Blackburn in 1995, I guess), and I don't see that changing any time soon. Nonetheless, Everton have gone from poor to good this year, so I shouldn't be grudging about Moyes.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 12 May 2003 11:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

"remains to be seen whether Everton's satisfying and surprising season-long upswing will be a precursor to disintegration a la Sunderland and Ipswich (Champs Lge contenders in 99-00 and 00-01 respectively) or whether we're about to rejoin the Big Boys' Club like Newcastle and Chelsea have"

somewhere in between, i reckon. i think he's done a great job, with limited resources SO FAR. next season will be a test, but expect a healthy tally from roonaldo.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 12 May 2003 11:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

It's true, Liverpool need a manager who's SECRETLY A DANDY.

― the pinefox, Monday, 12 May 2003 12:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

what? the sort of man that would be Dale Winton's best man?

― chris (chris), Monday, 12 May 2003 12:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

David Moyes yesterday: "If Wayne Rooney wants a guaranteed starting position, it won't be at Everton".

Use other words please?

― the pinefox, Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

CRAP?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

In other words, "keep your feet on the ground young man, you may be great but your not bigger than the team"

― chris (chris), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

He's not daft, David Moyes.

― James Ball (James Ball), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

He's a cold blue eyed killer is what he is. I mean Jesus, with those fucking eyes man, he looks ready to slice open your jugular any second. .

― Alex K (Alex K), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

yeah for real as if anyone's gonna storm into moyes's office and demand anything! thank god he never became man utd assistant, him and ferguson would be murder together

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

He is Fergie junior.

― James Ball (James Ball), Thursday, 17 July 2003 12:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

would love to see moyes vs keane

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Thursday, 17 July 2003 12:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

Can anybody remember an Own goal scored by John Bailey in the 1980-1981 season in the Merseyside derby at Anfield?

Basically was it scored with his head or foot or other part of his body?

― bondy, Wednesday, 30 July 2003 09:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

I remember it only too well. It came off the side of his head - Jimmy Case drove in a near post corner* (I think it was at the Kop end) and Bailey deflected it past (I think) Jim McDonagh. 1-0 with about 15 mins left. I think Imre Varadi had two goals disallowed in that match. Painful stuff, but at least we beat them in the Cup.

(* - a Liverpool-supporting friend of mine, sitting a few rows up in the Kemlyn Rd stand, swore Case's corner swung out of play en route to the six-yard box. We didn't have ProZone or Hawk-eye in those days.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 10:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

That question looked unanswerable, but I had a feeling that an answer would be forthcoming.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 July 2003 10:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

It sometimes occurs to me that Michael is Everton's very own Funes the Memorious, condemned never to forget a single dubious goal Liverpool have ever scored.

I remember him (I scarcely have the right to use this ghostly verb; only one man on earth deserved the right...

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Without effort, he had learned English, French, Portuguese, Latin. I suspect, nevertheless, that he was not very capable of thought. To think is to forget a difference, to generalize, to abstract. In the overly replete world of Funes there were nothing but details, almost contiguous details.

Oh, dear. Can somebody wipe my brain, please?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 21:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

3-0 at White Hart Lane, of all places. That's even worse than October (or was it September?) 1986.

I am tempted to say 'Everton should be worried', save that... I don't actually think they should be worried.

Should Liverpool be worried? The Guardian report today says there's a lot of worry around:

Houllier's worries at his players' anxieties

Liverpool 1 - 2 Arsenal

Kevin McCarra at Anfield
Monday October 6, 2003
The Guardian

In the fight for success managers have wretched spells when they feel as if they are trying to thump phantoms. Gérard Houllier is perturbed. Having improved the attacking potential of the Liverpool side, he now finds himself battling on a more mysterious front. The minds of his own players are a greater worry than the abilities of the opposition.

There are no more signings to be made and a dustsheet might as well be thrown over the tactics board. In this defeat by Arsenal it looked as if the side had simply forgotten how to challenge for honours. There was much to admire about Liverpool before the interval but ruthlessness was not among their merits.

Worse still, the team then grew preoccupied with its regrets and let a 1-1 draw shade into a defeat. "The boys got anxious," Houllier admitted. "It was as if they were saying, 'We have done so well, and didn't get the goals we deserve.' It was as if they wanted to keep the result rather than keep going forward."

In such circumstances talent is just a provocation. It annoys supporters to recognise ability that is not made to count. Harry Kewell put Liverpool in front with a rapacious first-time drive after an Edu clearance broke from Michael Owen but his performance is tied to a moodiness that has his impact fluctuating over the course of an afternoon.

Owen himself is usually steadier, yet he malfunctioned before collecting the injury that makes him a doubt for England's match in Istanbul. Given chances to add to the lead, a lob went high after Kewell's flick had sent him through and so too did a header from Steven Gerrard's superb, pacy free-kick.

There was excitement for half an hour. Liverpool are no longer monotonous and the tactic of pairing the elusive Kewell and Owen in attack left Arsenal's powerful centre-backs lacking anyone to grapple with. Houllier's side, though, could not sustain their display and so suffered a second consecutive defeat in the Premiership.

They do not appear remorseless enough to make up lost ground and challenge for the title. It is Arsenal, mystifyingly, who have turned into the kind of hard-bitten line-up whose results can be better than their displays. Only the wonderful winner, when Robert Pires bent a 25-yarder round Jerzy Dudek, revealed the Highbury club's virtuoso traits.

Jérémie Aliadière, in his first start for Arsenal, must have concluded that the Premiership's demands are intimidating but Arsène Wenger almost revelled in his memories of survival in a desperate situation. "We were on the ropes for 25 minutes," the manager said. "We couldn't get out of our half."

Arsenal were level at the interval because Edu's header from a Pires free-kick broke off Sami Hyypia for an own-goal, but Wenger's main thought was that his men needed to push up and choke Liverpool's flow in midfield.

Arsenal, on their Premieship travels, have followed a valuable draw at Manchester United with a win here and Wenger has cause to acclaim the "solidarity" of his squad. All the same the leniency of Houllier's side was still the key to recovery. With Edu a useful deputy for the injured Patrick Vieira, Arsenal eventually started to pass steadily, even if their old élan was lacking.

Although Ashley Cole had to deny Liverpool a late equaliser by blocking El Hadji Diouf's effort on the goal-line, the Highbury team became increasingly composed. Sol Campbell, back in action for the first time since the death of his father 17 days earlier, gradually recovered his focus over the course of the match.

"Sol was a bit in-between on playing; he didn't know if he was ready so I decided just to push him in," Wenger said. "Sol didn't want to let the team down. He was a bit anxious and in the last 20 minutes he looked a bit tired. But you could see that he wanted to dig deep to finish the game well. He needed a lot of mental strength."

The professional concerns of footballers are trifling by comparison with those of a bereaved man but Arsenal are performing with fortitude. It remains to be seen whether the durability will last if there is a battery of suspensions after the fracas at Old Trafford.

Liverpool, however, are currently the more apprehensive club and once again there is talk of Gerrard and Owen seeking transfers if no Champions League place is won. Houllier did not deserve to see such speculation resurface but, although he was blameless on Saturday, it is always the manager's job to suffer.

― the pinefox, Monday, 6 October 2003 15:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool are currently three [3] points above "crisis club" Leeds United. They may be playing better than Leeds, or not losing as heavily, or something, but this statistic alone might be reason for worry, I think.

― Tim (Tim), Monday, 6 October 2003 15:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

In praise of "soccer"
It's time for America to discover the knees, thighs and invention of the men
who play the most erotic game in the world.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

By David Thomson

May 30, 2002 | Let me leave young women aside for a moment. I will come to
them. But what I want to say first is that this is that moment at which the
world comes to a proper celebration of something men were made to do,
something that is intensely physical yet profoundly imaginative, something
made out of muscle, speed, grace and the soul. I am talking about the World
Cup, about soccer, about football.

I know, that name is not quite allowed in this country because it is
supposed to be kept under lock and key for that other game -- not a bad
game, even if it compels men to be too large and replaces the real
adventures of the mind with the huddles, the jargon and the militaristic
submersion of identity in "planning."

So American football is a fine thing. Still, America could do itself good
all over the world by saying, Well, yes, after all, we all know what
football is, football is the game made by Stanley Matthews, Ferenc Puskas,
Pele, Maradona and Zidane, football is the world's passion and festival, one
of the greatest forms of play ever invented (and a turn-on). Therefore,
"our" "football" needs a new name -- let's call it "gridiron" or "attack" or
whatever you like. "Soccer" is such a stupid name. How many of the children
playing all over the U.S. today actually know why it is called "soccer"? How
many readers of this piece know? (For the answer, see below.) Give us back
the real meaning of "football."

And, no matter that the games are likely to appear on our television at
unearthly hours that do a lot to destroy the other rhythms of life -- you
should attend to this great contest. And its rhythm. Football is a game
played on a pitch at least 100 yards by 60, played at extraordinary pace, in
which most of the players are likely to be driven from end to end, back and
forth, while still finding the time to control, touch, deflect and guide a
ball that bounces to the moods of ground, wind and altitude.

Time and again, in football, you will see young men -- at the limits of
their physical capacity -- do astonishingly inventive things with the
rhythm, the direction and the winning of this very simple game. In its
essence, it should be played without lulls or stoppages. Only then can
change of pace and direction prove so decisive. It is trite to say that
football is like dance. Dance, after all, has no equivalent to danger,
contact, collision and courage. And dance is choreographed. The design is
meant to be carried out to perfection, whereas in football the perfection
will always emerge from spontaneity, accident and momentary impulse.

How sexy is football? As sexy as any performance where young men, trained
all their lives in skills and execution, still discover in an instant the
unexpected, the reversal, the purely personal option within a team's plan.
You will hear that some nations -- the Latin teams, say -- are more
naturally adept at this than others. Not so. Some of the greatest of players
have been European, and northern European at that -- consider Cruyff, Law,
Best, Beckenbauer and so many others. Some of the most turgid, paranoid and
overrehearsed football ever played has come from Italian teams. Still, there
is always the passionate example of Brazil, the savage moodiness of
Argentina, the exuberance of African teams and who knows what dark horse
this time?

Football does not take root in the U.S., so they say, and there are all the
old reasons -- not enough goals, not enough opportunities for commercial
breaks, an absence of melodramatic violence, too much stress on the mind.
Well, maybe America can and will live with those crushing definitions of
itself.

Or maybe it will observe something that is American in origin yet still not
figured out in many football-crazy nations: that it is a terrific game for
women. For if we have discovered something feminine in the game, then surely
the world is helped in enjoying the way men move. In that glimpse of
America's insecure maleness, there lies a way in which our culture of might
really moves ahead. But that would depend on more ordinary Americans
discovering the intensely sexual, intellectual allure of the game. Every
four years you get a new chance to abandon helmets, padding and the war
cries of the Marines -- and show us your legs, your knees, your thighs, your
invention.

*The game is called soccer because as it developed in Britain, it acquired a
Football Association (an organizing structure) to distinguish it from rugby.
The "soccer" comes from the "soc" in association. Which is not really a
proper way to name a great game.

― the pinefox, Monday, 6 October 2003 16:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Thanks for posting that Thomson piece, The Pinefox - it's fantastic.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 6 October 2003 17:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Liverpool won't win the Premiership 2003-4. Yet (and I know this feeeling was not universal) I was cheered by their result against Leeds. I don't like to think of the pressure on Houllier if they'd lost that. Perhaps they will be top 4 after all?

― the pinefox, Monday, 27 October 2003 14:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

I really feel it is looking grim for Liverpool. If they fail to get a Champions League place this year as looks likely, there will be a really awkward situation where they may be forced to sell Michael Owen, to avoid his leaving on Bosman the year after.

As far as I know the same is true of Steven Gerrard.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

Meanwhile Everton haven't managed a league goal in 308 minutes of play. The ineffective huff and puff vs Southampton was very shoddy (OK, we had the ball in the net three times - our only decent moves inside the final third all illegally executed) which seems to suggest that the greater flair we've added to last season's disciplined and methodical squad has had the effect of unstablising the whole mixture. No one wanted to keep the ball. At least we've stopped conceding penalties for the time being.

I suspect we'll thump someone out of sight once every seven or eight games and the rest of the time won't be able to find the key to the garage door, never mind first gear. 10th at best. With Liverpool 11th.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 27 October 2003 16:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Further to my post I think, as much as I hate to say it that Houllier is never going to bring the title to Liverpool. I think it might be best if he went now aswell. I've been patient enough but I think it's time to let him go.

What do the other Liverpool people around here think? And the non Liverpool people also?

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 27 October 2003 16:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

Back in May I said of Houllier "I think he's pretty short on ideas and distrusts the kind of creativity that seems necessary to get right to the top." He has clearly been persuaded that he needs more flair, but he doesn't seem to know how to blend it well with their firmer qualities. I suspect they may be "only" a Keane/Viera/Makalele away from being serious contenders, though. Hamman will do his best to fulfil the role when he is fully fit again, but he's a class below that trio.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 27 October 2003 18:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

Houllier and IDS must both keep their jobs - perhaps for life.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 27 October 2003 22:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

It was 25 years ago today

Everton 1-0 Liverpool, Andy King 58min; Mike Pejic's long free-kick, Martin Dobson's knockdown (or was he outjumped by Phil Thompson?) and King's swerving 'fluke' volley from 25 yards. Clemence looked bewildered, shamed, hurt.

The sun dipping behind the Park End stand, flooding the BBC lenses, lending the whole thing a washed out, unreal feel. Couldn't we have scored in front of the Gwladys Street - dancing mass of blue, in full 625line contrast? No, this was better - look at the miserable sods behind the goal.

"Delirium at Goodison Park!" squealed Young Tyldesley on 194m MW. The same watery autumn glare in our old front room, Clive on the stereogram, my brother staring at the same piece of carpet for the last 32 minutes, hoping, praying (we still did then).

Richard Duckenfield's breathless fulltime scoop interview gets as far as "Andy King..." before a jobsworth rednose bobby intervenes. "Gerrof the pitch..." A staple on What Happened Next for years.

Magic/tragic/etc.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 16:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

Very good-looking news for reds:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/3261175.stm

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 16:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

Little Wayne Rooney played terribly well for England the other day.

When he turned on a tuppence and pelted the post from nowhere I think I actually heard myself exclaiming "ROY OF THE ROVERS!".

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 12:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Liverpool's (Annual?) General Meeting dominates certain back pages. Houllier wins 'brief applause' for his fighting talk, but is the first to leave. The chairman says they won't make changes till the end of the season, and that the buck stops with... *him*! He 'might sell to an Ambramovich'. (Imagine if Abramovich himself was allowed to buy Liverpool as well as Chelsea.) Meanwhile another millionaire buries a hatchet and may build a new stadium all over Stanley Park, perhaps centred on the original burial site of the hatchet.

A fan is reported as saying: 'all the talk's about catching up with Manchester United... but 14 years ago we were way ahead of them in terms of success, income and support'.

(14 years! It sounds like the kind of thing that... that *I'd* say.)

― the liverfox, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 14:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

Were Liverpool ever ahead of United in terms of support? Not just attendance figures (Old Trafford always greater capacity than Anfield?), but worldwide fandom. Certainly the Cockney Red stereotype wore shorts of that colour too in the 80s, but I always thought Utd's appeal was global from the late 50s.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 14:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yes... I guess worldwide I'd agree. In UK, don't know - maybe 20 years ago more wee boys sported Liverpool bags?

(Those bags, by the way - what a strange convention they were, utterly accepted and almost omnipresent, yet now presumably nonexistent.

I assume we know what bags I'm talking about.)

― the liverfox, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

Three Liverpool victories in a week: 0-2 at Yeovil, 0-1 at Chelsea, now 1-0 vs Villa. I am pleased. You would be surprised, or perhaps I myself ought to be more surprised, at how much of an enthusiast for Liverpool success I have become. If I travelled back to 1987 and told myself this, he would be disappointed.

Perhaps the meaning of it all is that Liverpool now mean football's past? So I am keen on them.

cf. David Lacey's Guardian article also.

Everton were alas defeated in the capital.

Anyway -- assuming a Liverpool comeback of some kind, how far can it go?

― the pinefox (Jerrynipper), Saturday, 10 January 2004 19:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

Is Stevie T a Liverpool fan at all?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 10 January 2004 20:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

Lacey's piece was very good yes.

I hate Michael Howard more than ever right now.

― chris (chris), Sunday, 11 January 2004 10:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

I was sat in Rigby's (allegedly one of a handful of places in the world with Chimay on tap) on Dale Street on Saturday night next to a table of Reds thoroughly nonplussed by what they'd just seen at Anfield. Still, grinding out results like this when still looking nothing like a top-class side may see them win the also-rans' race.

Kilbane and Jeffers good again vs Fulham, but we wasted too many early chances. I fancy us in the forthcoming Cup rematch though.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

Owen sounds more like he's staying.

Much talk a la: "Liverpool now have to prove they're worthy of him".

But why? He is part of the team which has (relatively) failed - is he worthy of Liverpool? Shouldn't he be going out and proving it?

Insofar as he's not part of the failed team, it's because he has repeatedly seemed to play so few matches per season. So shouldn't he also be proving that he's fit enough to be offered a contract?

― the liverfox, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 14:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

"The Liver Fox" - starring Nerys Hughes and Basil Brush.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 14:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

Boom boom, la

― the liverfox, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 15:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

well his scoring record has been consistently good, even with all the injuries.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 20:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

"It got to the point where Sam Allardyce was being linked with my job last week. That was funny." - G. Houllier, quoted today.

Dear me, BIG SAM and his TV promoter Robbie Earle won't like that.

― the liverfox, Saturday, 17 January 2004 14:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Alas.

― the beebfox, Monday, 23 February 2004 14:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think Houllier should go now, this week, straight away. Failing that as soon as the season ends, regardless of league position. The club is going nowhere.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

If he goes this week, you ain't getting Martin O'Neill until Celtic's UEFA Cup run is over.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 23 February 2004 22:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

I guess so but nonetheless.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 February 2004 22:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

He'll go at the end of the season, short of miraculous form until then. Dave Boyle is convinced that O'Neill will replace him, which I find very plausible indeed, and that he'll turn them into a great team once more. He might be right.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 00:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

I ph34r MON leaving. But leave i think he will and Liverpool will be so lucky; if we're being honest, the celtic team is a bit of a bunch of cloggers who've not been attracting top club interest; he's made them mucyh more than the sum of their parts. Take that to Liverpool and it's quite frightening to the rest of the prem really.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

will houllier jump or will he pushed?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

he'll be gently shoved at the end of the season.

It's sad, there was so much promise a couple of years ago and now what? sliding again into turgid mediocrity

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Take that to Liverpool and it's quite frightening to the rest of the prem really.

Aren't people overestimating the quality of the Liverpool squad a bit? I mean, they're 26 points off the title pace - that's not all down to GH's tactics/motivational skills, is it? They're clearly a cut above the Premiership median and still probably favourites for 4th spot (57-60pts will do it this season) but this seems a weaker collective pool of talent than 2000-01 (OK, that is GH's fault).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

I've been hoping that Houllier would be sacked since this time last year but now I'm starting to fear that the Board will give him one more season to come good on his promises. If we do that then we'll lose our chance to get MO'N, could lose Owen and Gerrard, and become a truly mediocre team. We'll become the biggest sleeping giants of all time - above us only sky and around us only shit.

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think some of buys have been duds (there's a fine a venerable tradition of World Cup Pups; I see them as the footballing equivalent of drunken shags), whilst others are transitional, like Picture-penguin. But at the risk of sounding like a 5live phone-in caller, there's no way a team with Owen, Gerrard, Hamann and Hyppia should be 26 pts off the lead.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think it's a strong squad. They don't let in a lot of goals and they create a lot of chances. The big weakness is the over-reliance on little Michael to score all the goals. The addition of a proven goalscorer (is Cissé proven? I fear another Hadji Duff) could make all the difference.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool appear to lack self belief at the moment. I think Cisse could be the key to next season, but you never really know. Diouf looked great at the world cup, but average in the Premiership.

I still think they'll get fourth. Does that constitute a decent season? I dunno.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

Can we talk about Everton now, please?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Self-belief lacking? call MON...no amount of history and heritage and weight of expectation too grebt.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

In September did any Liverpool fan think that 4th would be a good season? I don't think so. If anyone says it is now, that's just because we've all lowered our expectations because a good side is performing badly and getting terrible results. Now 4th is the best we can hope for. That tells you everything you need to know about Houllier's progress as Liverpool manager.

Everton are even worse.

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

See Owen's penalty at Fratton Park for belief, lacking in.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

They're a conundrum, all right. One keeps hearing of shambolic, aimless performances (though not at the back where they're famously tight) of unendurable negativity and then one reads the Monday papers' stats and they've had 37 shots on goal or something in a 1-1.

I liked Ian St John's claim that Houll the Ghoull is transforming the Anfield faithful into 'zombies', traipsing across a mist-shrouded Stanley Park.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

See Owen's penalty at Fratton Park for belief, lacking in.

That's nine misses in nineteen attempts! Who else would have him?

Everton - the Grand Old Relegation Struggle again. We can't even comfort ourselves with the notion that it's us and a dozen others because a gap has developed in the last couple of weeks and we're on the wrong end of it. I'm going to see them on Saturday - my first trip to Goodison in a decade - and hopefully it'll be our first league win of 2004. If not, I don't see us keeping the likes of Leeds, Wolves and Leicester at bay with any ease - none of them are in freefall, they're still snaffling up points here and there.

We seem to miss a similar proportion of chances to Liverpool, we just create a third as many. And we're leaky at the back in a way not hinted at by 02-03. This season we possession-dominate 0-1 defeats; last season we pinched even-steven games with late wonder-strikes. Gravesen is the most frustrating player to watch - occasionally inspired and inspiring, he misdirects more passes in 90 minutes than Paul Bracewell did in his whole career.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

Steve Watson was a big factor last season for your lot wasn't he? and this season he's having a mare.

What I've seen of Cisse he's been great, but always with the backing of Kapo while playing for Auxerre, maybe Kewell will provide similar service if he ever decides to start being a decent player again.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 13:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't think Everton will be drawn into a relegation fight. There are so many potential goals in that squad (Campbell, Ferguson (penalties and brave headers only), Radzinski, Rooney etc). David Unsworth isn't half the player he used to be, mind. And it wasn't much to begin with.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 13:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

Steve Watson was a big factor last season for your lot wasn't he? and this season he's having a mare.

I'm not sure about that - he only played a dozen or so games last campaign but started this season in great form (the hat-trick against Leeds being the highlight) and then got injured. But, yes, terribly ineffective since his return. We've missed a fit Kevin Campbell this year but we're going to have to get used to that - it's twilight time for KC.

Ha, just checked the stats on the website and Gravesen makes 77% of his passes, making him EFC's Mr Accuracy. Sorry, Thom!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ah I was getting the start of this season mixed up with last, oops.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

Houll the Ghoull!

Mike - I hope you're taking a camera!

(Not Titi.)

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 24 February 2004 15:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

I liked Ian St John's claim that Houll the Ghoull is transforming the Anfield faithful into 'zombies', traipsing across a mist-shrouded Stanley Park.

Did I hear him say at the weekend that he had lost his job hosting hospitality suites because of being critical of Houllier last year?

― Mooro (Mooro), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 16:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

BBC: Liverpool 3-0 Portsmouth

Liverpool revived their bid for a Champions League spot with a convincing victory over Portsmouth. A stunning volley from Dietmar Hamann and two goals from Michael Owen lifted the Reds into fifth place, a point adrift of Charlton.

Owen tucked away his first from six yards before sealing a welcome return to form with a second-half header.

Emile Heskey might have made it four late on when he headed against a post, while Portsmouth offered little.

Defeat left Portsmouth in the bottom three, still two points adrift of safety.

― the liverfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

At the weekend, Everton 1-0 Portsmouth and Soton 2-0 Liverpool made a poor contrast for Reds fans.

But have Liverpool now turned another corner?

And has Merseyside sent Portsmouth down?

― the roonfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

we may have sent them down, we may not have turned the corner, let's wait and see what happens against Wolves (who are in a wee bit of form)

I read today someone espousing Heskey for Centre back - this smacks of twisted genius

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

This battle for 4th place might now be over if Newcastle hadn't repeatedly conceded last-gasp equalisers/winners in recent weeks. As much as the dim prospect of L'pool finishing out of the European places altogether tickles me, I suspect it'll come down to that last match with Newc at Anfield, May 15th with the Reds only needing a draw for CL 04-05 and Charlton a distant sixth.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

And sixth won't be good enough for Europe this year. Only one UEFA cup spot (for fifth). First division clubs cup run to blame.

Chris, I wouldn't say losing 4-0 at home to Villa constitutes form for Wolves.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

good point, I forgot about that one. Let's hope that's the start of a slide and not a blip.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

And sixth won't be good enough for Europe this year.

Unless Boro have one hell of a run in. And no one wants that.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool have turned a corner. I put Jamie Carragher in my Fantasy Football team yesterday in expectation of this. 5 points hurrah. It was mainly cause they had an extra game before the end of the game month and they were all against crappy teams, i have to admit.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

Carragher is one of my favourite Liverpool players, he's very good, and should maybe be playing centre midfield (although Hamann has resurrected himself lately)

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

He's not the most creative player though, is he? (last night's cross notwithstanding)

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

his passing is vastly under-rated, very rarely gives the ball away, and uis a good hard player - exactly what Liverpool needs in the middle

― chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

Carragher is one of those solid, uninspiring players that all teams need and Liverpool have too many of. He's never going to appear on Showboating is he?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think the points per game totals of the teams from 4th to 8th look a bit low, so I am expecting someone to claim 4th with a really outstanding run from now until the end of the season. I guess Liverpool and Newcastle are favourites for this, but last night and a good win against Wolves might give Liverpool exactly the launchpad into such a run that they need.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 18:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think the points per game totals of the teams from 4th to 8th look a bit low, so I am expecting someone to claim 4th with a really outstanding run from now until the end of the season.

I can't work out if this makes sense or not. I am dumb.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

I mean that I would expect a team to finish 4th with a much higher ratio than is currently the case, so I expect someone to pull away with great form more than I expect other teams to drop off through poor form.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Isn't that like thinking that if you've tossed five tails in a row you're more likely to get heads the next time?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

I guess if by 'great form' you just mean 'form more like previous seasons'' then it isn't.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

N., the football commentator, is... plausible?

― the cupfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'd love it if they had one pedantic middle-class know nothing amongst the studio pundits to quibble over faulty logic and poor grammar.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't know what you're trying to say.

Are you positing yourself, or me, as the middle-class know-nothing?

I am middle-class but re. football I know something more than nothing.

― the cupfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's me, not you. I can't understand how you could have thought otherwise.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

I see. re. faulty logic. You were indeed attacking that.

― the byrdfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

It is a bit like that, N, yes - but not quite, as those sorts of figures do provide a pretty decent guide generally, though obviously not always.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Coming up:

Arsenal vs Liverpool

Everton vs Tottenham

TWO BIG MATCHES

CAN HOULLIER'S MEN STOP GUNNERS IN THEIR... TRACKSUITS?

― the roonfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Reds, UEFA Cup exit aside, are definitely in some mean form right now - four Premiership games without conceding a goal, the most convincing they've looked all season. But *then* you remember who their last four games were against and the 89 minutes of toil vs Wolves and maybe it ain't all that. I expect Arsenal to recover their winning touch. EFC-Spurs I anticipate being the usual, strangely dissatisfying score draw.

Can someone tell me what's happened to the Southampton-Newcastle fixture? Bobby R made some reference to that now being NUFC's last game of the season, but surely there can't be games beyond 15/5?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Pool aren't really playing that well, one good game, they had European failure in between those 4 games aswell.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think you mean Sir Bobby R

― the cupfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

Pool aren't really playing that well, one good game, they had European failure in between those 4 games aswell.

Yes, but even the defeat vs Marseille was a reasonable performance until the bizarro red-card-penalty incident. Better than the home leg, I thought. I thought the 3-0 vs Pompey and 4-0 vs Blackburn were universally acclaimed in a way few winning L'pool performances have been this season. Or maybe that was just the media pendulum swinging back from the Houll Crisis position.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

Owen has hit form just in time for a late charge at the end of the season though (and hopefully Euro2004 as well)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's good to see Jonesy talking Liverpool up and Ronan talking them down, both from opposing pessimistic positions.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

haha I have lost all faith.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

I have never seen MJ talk them up quite so much, on reflection.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

Incidentally Pinefox even I don't believe that Spurs Everton is a big game - it is utterly inconsequential. Especially when bearing in mind that both teams typically finish seasons with the same confidence, verve and steadyness as, well... Arsenal. Arf.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

Is there an argument that, for all the silverware GH has brought into Anfield, Roy Evans (remember him?) actually got closer to that elusive Premiership title? If David James hadn't such a nightmare on Easter Monday '97 vs Man Utd, if Liverpool hadn't faltered at Coventry three days after that Game Of The Decade vs KK's Newcastle in '96...they'd have been right in the hunt at the death. Houllier's Liverpool always seem totally out of the race by about February.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

sigh

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

GH's are wrong in the death at the hunt.

― the liverfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Evans had us playing good football too, we were 5 points clear at Christmas that year and looked fantastic.

Maybe the long spell of patience should have been kept for Roy, I don't know. GH has to go this summer anyway, regardless of the position the team finishes in.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

My dearest scouse-related dream is for the Liverpool board to appoint another manager to be Joint Manager alongside Gerard. He wouldn't be in a position to complain, of course, because it's a completely reasonable thing to do, non?

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

My dearest scouse-related dream is for the Liverpool board to appoint another manager to be Joint Manager alongside Gerard.

Oh, my heart skips at the notion of "joint manager".

Liverpool under Evanshoullier, Aug-Nov 1998:

P13, W4, D4, L5 - 12th in Prem, out of league cup at home to Spurs.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

Obviously any dip in Liverpool's form would be an entirely unwelcome side-effect of my plan.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I am almost ashamed - but no, really just sad - to have to say that I cannot clearly remember that League Cup victory.

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Houllier's grebt season:

UEFA - won against 9-men Spanish team through own goal in extra-time; Spanish team have never been heard of since.

FA Cup - should have been about 4-0 down then two goals with two attacks in the last 10 mins

League Cup - Beat a 1st Division side on penalties

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

but in all of them, won it when others didn't.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

Also finishing SECOND IN THE PREMIERSHIP the following season...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

but in all of them, won it when others didn't.

A fitting epitaph for Gerard.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

... can anyone else clearly remember that League Cup victory?

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

Haha I do... JOHN SCALES scored! Tottenham went onto win the cup.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

The one where we beat Bolton? It's hazy for me I must admit

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

I can't remember it but the bare details are:

Tuesday, Nov 10, 1998

Liverpool 1 (Owen 80)
Tottenham Hotspur 3 (Iversen 2, Scales 19, Nielsen 61)

Arsenal lost 5-0 at home to Chelsea the following night!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh christ I remember that, appalling, I watched Chelsea beat what was just about an Arsenal reserve team the next night in a really nice pub in Edinburgh, where I got very drunk on 80bob

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Everton went out the same night on penalties at home to Sunderland, John Collins scoring a rare goal for us in a 1-1 draw. John Collins - what promise, what enormous wages, what a waste.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Jayzus, yes, I remember being 0-3 up, and probably still fearing the Liverpool comeback.

I suppose that 11.98, Owen was still England's brightest young star?

Uh-oh -- he still is?

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Good old Tottenham pessimism. I remember against Chelsea in the Worthington Cup a few years back - it was only when the fourth goal went in that it occurred to me that we might not lose.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Me too!

That was only... 2 years ago?

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

In the pub for Dave Boyle's birthday FAP tonight I saw the TV (no sound) flash up 'HEADLINES' then there was a shot of Houllier giving a press conference. I immediately thought that maybe he has resigned - and then they cut to a shot of Keegan, and I was immensely amused at the idea of him as a replacement. Turned out their top headline was about Liverpool hoping to beat Arsenal. Quiet news day, I assume.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 8 April 2004 22:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

Everton can't do F'all because they were a G14ish team that fell by the wayside at exactly the wrong moment. Liverpool had just enough kudos to be included in the G14/perception of being a big European club. I'm glad that on the other thread (EC CUP) everyone takes the anti-G14 attitude they do because remember R Madrid did not win the European Cup between the 1960's & 1998? - Who the fuck were they?
It is about money & because of that I think all our goodwill to Ranieri will disappear next season

― drum (drum), Thursday, 8 April 2004 23:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

Owen's put them ahead again! I'm off the pub.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

All gone to shit. Arsenal have scored twice and the pub said it wasn't on Sky. What sodding channel is it on?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's not on anywhere as far as I know.

Pay per view maybe? It might be on in a pub here except all pubs and off licences are closed today.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

didn't you ask 'em N.

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I asked them and they said it was on some weird channel they didn't have. I am reduced to comparing web commentaries (left my radio walkman at home for the first time in months and I can't use the plug in one here cause our office electrical weirdness blocks out all AM reception). Soccernet's weird 'gamecast' thing attempts to show what's happening on the field but I can't make head nor tail of it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

tail?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

As ever, eurosport.com's commentary is the most entertaining, but not the most up to date.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Can you pick up 5Live in Dublin? I can't remember. Or does Irish radio carry it?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

OK, I have now made out the tail but the head is still eluding me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Eurosport guy really has it in for Carragher.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't have a radio handy, but I'm going to try and listen online now.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/teams/a/arsenal/html/live_hi.stm

radio won't work for me for some reason.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

I didn't think 5live were allowed to broadcast games on the web. It's too late now anyway - my lunch hour is over.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

Crap. Henry makes it 4. What makes it worse is that he's not in my FF team cause I thought he was injured.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

Shite.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

Touching summary from Graham Taylor "It doesn't matter how famous the Arsenal players are, it's easy to forget they're still part of the human race, and a week like this will have been hard for them"

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

Uh-oh.

― the beebfox, Friday, 9 April 2004 14:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

A-ha.

― Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 9 April 2004 14:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Take Henry?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 14:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

listened to it and was quite hopeful at half time, still they were bound to backlash against someone, just had to be us of course didn't it, ah well. Do Newcastle still have to play them too?

Apparent;y Henry's second has to be seen to be believed "Maradonna-esque" What so a defender should have kicked his legs away as he was approaching the area?

― chris (chris), Friday, 9 April 2004 16:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ron Atkinson: 'And Beckenbauer really has gambled all his eggs'. Heh heh heh. Surely there's a Ron thread lurking somewhere? If not, why not?

― Will McKenzie, Friday, 9 April 2004 18:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

There's a postscript to all this Good Friday hoohah, half the reason the Pinefox revived this thread. I hope the PF was spared the sadness in Chris Waddle's voice tonight as he tabulated the Hotspur shortcomings. Carr's goal wins the tie on aggregate though. Thanks for the lend of 12th place, you can have it back next week.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 April 2004 22:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Chris - Newcastle are at home to Arsenal on Sunday. Only one game for the Toonpies this weekend, the trip to Southampton having been put back by the UEFA Cup (commitments & speculation) to May 12th. So L'pool will be up a game in the race for 4th spot until very nearly the end of the campaign.

I was tickled by the delicious notion that Arsenal could remain unbeaten in the Premiership AND STILL NOT WIN IT. Three wins and four draws in the remaining seven - Chelsea could pip them.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 April 2004 22:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

"What so a defender should have kicked his legs away as he was approaching the area?"

mm or attempted waving a leg or vaguely moving towards him, that would have been good too

― prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

I missed that sadness.

Fear not, I have plenty of my own.

― the bluefox, Saturday, 10 April 2004 07:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Football is a vale of tears.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 10 April 2004 10:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

it was on in hubbard's.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 10 April 2004 11:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

Hubbard's is a vale of tears too far.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 10 April 2004 11:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yours is not to reason why.

― Mooro (Mooro), Saturday, 10 April 2004 11:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

I went out straight after Owen's goal went in. I was upset when I got to the pub at 8.00 that evening to finally find out the result. I was even more upset 25 minutes and three Everton goals later.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 10 April 2004 12:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Stevie" Gerrard shouldnae have been booked yesterday.

I don't think that every failed penalty appeal should be a booking.

For this aggressive, active player to... 'collect' his first buiking of the season (!) in this way says that something went wrong.

I heard a fan (?) on R5 yesterday squalling about the heckling and banners that would force Houllier out. It was enough to make anyone back GH. It felt wrong, trés wrong.

― the liverfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

I agree, it had me seething at the radio too, it's just not the Liverpool way (ie he should be shunted upstauirs in the close season with the minimum of fuss and yer man MON brought in forthwith)

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

There did seem to be alot of booing. But I maintain that regardless of position he has to go now. They're likely to finish the worst 4th place in years if they even do that. I think sometimes fans have a right to boo surely? How else do they express disappointment with what's been the worst season in around ten years.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

on R5 Ronan, a bloke was ranting about arranging a protest at the Newcastle game, constant booing of the whole team "getting rid of Houllier is more important than a champions league place" idiot

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

What's the point of getting rid of Houllier before the end of the season? I don't understand - its not like you're going to get someone top class in to turn everything around in that sort of time. And any upheaval will unsettle all the players and damage the club's Champions League chances even more.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh no I mean "he has to go now" as in at the end of the season he must leave, after what has happened.

That's awful though, the idea of booing the whole team from the start of a game.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

I know, exactly waht I meant about it not being the Liverpool way, that's the sort of shenanigans you expect from White hart lane for sobbing out loud (where the cries of Pleat out are building so I hear)

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Spurs fans were chanting "WE WANT PLEAT OUT". Pleat said, "it is not a persoanl attack."

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

How else do they express disappointment with what's been the worst season in around ten years.

Rednose Short Memory Syndrome in full effect. 1998-99, folks. Let's not forget 1998-99 (Christ, at one point heading into Xmas we only trailed you on goal diff - and this was in Walter Smith's shambolic first season when we couldn't score at Goodison!)

Whilst it's encouraging that Charlton, Newcastle and maybe even Villa can catch Liverpool now I refuse to believe any of those clubs can do it. I'm more concerned about the growing 34pt-club at the bottom and preventing Leeds' membership of it.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

Beautiful pass by Gerrard for Owen's goal against Arsenal. You hear 'slide rule pass' mentioned all the time. That was the textbook example.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

You don't believe Newcastle can catch Liverpool? Really?

I predicted a Top 6 finish for Villa back in August. If they actually get one I will be really fucked off about not going down the bookies. But then again I predicted Fulham to finish secon from bottom...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

I hope, desire and wish but I don't *believe*.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

O, help my unbelief.

― the loyolafox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Villa are a big club: possibly they should always be top 6 Or Thereabouts.

I don't think they deserve Champions' League, though.

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Deserve? Are you trying to invoke the ire of Dave B, O roonfox?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

I wasn't -- but now you mention it - bring it on!

I am the thief of ire.

― the irefox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

All this talk about 'big clubs' is misleading. Define it how? Big stadiums full of punters? League finishes over the last five, ten, twenty years? Turnover?!

If they deserve to finish top six then they need to generate more points in the season than the team that finishes seventh. That's all it is.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

Well we had some convincing wins in 98/99, and weren't so awful to watch all the time either. Scored way more goals if I remember correctly.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

All this talk about 'big clubs' is misleading. Define it how? Big stadiums full of punters? League finishes over the last five, ten, twenty years? Turnover?!

If anyone even attempts to do this I will come and slap them.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

All this talk about 'big clubs' is misleading. Define it how? Big stadiums full of punters? League finishes over the last five, ten, twenty years? Turnover?

Mikey, are you angling for a revival of the thread that dare not speak its name?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yep, 68 goals in 98/99, just what, 45 or something this season?

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

Can we talk about what makes a big club a big club again? Can we? Can we?

I think LUFC would make fine members of that stupid club. I wish the LUFC-EFC game this evening were to be televised. I wonder if 5 Live will give it proper coverage, or whether they'll focus on MUFC-LCFC tedium.

Fascinating fact for this evening: Eddie Gray's Leeds have an extremely good record when playing teams managed by Scots.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm not a regular Nick so not sure what you are referring to. I would say 'no' however, just to be safe.

I think someone should come up with an equation. Where n = the number of fit birds per stadia and f = quality of the pies.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Sometimes (not always), when I hear the phrase "x is a big club", I think of "Brutus is an honourable man".

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yeah but Ronan you finished 7th in the league in 98-99. Below West Ham and Villa. If that happened nowadays people would be calling for Houllier to be hung drawn and quartered in front of a baying Kop.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

When I hear the phrase "Spurs are a big club" I say "all hail to ye Macbeth, that shalt be Thane of Cawdor"

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

STOP IT!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

When I hear the phrase "a cultured player" I reach for my revolver.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

What is the revolver-owning revelation?!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

It is that JtN owns a revolver!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

Did anyone see the third eye on Soccer AM where the guy was trying to return the ball to the opposition after being kicked out for an injury? Twice he blasted it in the guy's face.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

and the bloke never flinched!!

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

Twice!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

What is a third eye?

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Is it like a wild front ear?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

It belongs to Saturday morning. After they've got the colonel out.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

and just before everyone climbs aboard the showboat

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

About half hour before the dancing old man.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

who gives me the creeps every time, but after he's left I know that life can carry on (backed by Jeff Stelling)

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yeah but Matt 98-99 was the year of the joint manager business, Houllier had only been put in on his own halfway through, so really a change had already been made that year.

Also if you look at the league table, there's no guarantee of Liverpool getting into Europe AT ALL this year, I sincerely hope they do and think they should nick the Champions League spot but the teams are all very close, and the reality is that every time I have thought Liverpool are back on track this year they've messed up all over again.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

Why does David Moyes have a TRAININGGROUNDBUSTUP with every striker on his books?

And why is he not subsequently viewed as dubious at... "man-management"?

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 11:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ever noticed how they seem to play better once Moyes has singed their locks? Not in the case of Jeffers, of course, who probably won't kick a ball for us again. DM is just sorting the wheat from the chaff - and his decision to partner McFadden and Radzinski was entirely vindicated.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Would the PF play better if Moyes locked up his Synge?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ouch

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's you and not the Elland boys will be having the fine times, I'm thinking, and the sweet toffee wheat springing from the sour chaff on the dry Pennines, Michael mavourneen.

― the finefox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

Villa's rightful place, now and forever, is 8th.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

i'd love it if Villa nicked that 4th spot

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Are you implying they can't gain it through above-board means?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'd love it too, but 'they flatter to deceive'. I enjoyed The Nun's comments last night - 'they're a small squad of players and they're doing the best they can'. He's always there first with a pre-emptive excuse.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

in retrospect i am glad i didnt try and force through a shola ameoba = cultured player joke

― prima fassy (mwah), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

Leeds United 1-1 Everton

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 19:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

After a bright opening, we were pulped for 70 minutes after another classic characters-from-Dad's Army performance from Gravesen - from "I'm in charge here" to galloping incompetence and eventual withdrawal. He was replaced by Ted Lowe - equally ineffective but at least quiet about it.

I was genuinely miffed by Blackburn's win last night - I went to bed thinking the 2-1 halftime score was the fulltime score and watched in horror as the goals flew in. Souness must go down.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 20:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

The idea that Villa could be Champeens league contenders having spent most of the season involved in chat about whether they'd be sucked into a relegation battle says a lot about the Premiership this season.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 09:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yes, but that "chat" was evidently being conducted by idiots. Villa are neither Champs League nor relegation candidates and haven't been all season.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 09:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

No, but they were many people's favoured candidates for this year's club who get sucked into a battle at the death and go down. Mine included. But then Villa bore me terribly.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 09:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm still holding out for that to be Man City. Although they're royally fucked if they do, with a payroll like that and no stadium to their name.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 09:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

No, not City. Blackburn, if it has to happen.

I have given my view on Villa already.

Glad that Everton held out.

― the beebfox, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 12:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Where is PF's view on Villa already?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Villa are a big club: possibly they should always be top 6 Or Thereabouts.
I don't think they deserve Champions' League, though.

-- the roonfox (pinefo...), April 13th, 2004.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh sorry, I thought it was some big extended philosophical thing. I read that yesterday. You're right though. Except there are loads of clubs as Big as Villa, such as Everton. Am I forever stuck in 1978?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Everton are bigger.

(I am sorry to disappoint - I have not yet formulated my big extended philosophical thing on Aston Villa.)

I am stuck too, though not, oddly, in 1978. I suppose if I were, we could keep each other company.

― the bluefox, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

PF in stuck in 1989 shockah!

― Mooro (Mooro), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 16:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

(Mooro - I don't want to clog this thread with such talk - but that mail of yours doesn't work... does it?

I have mailed you elsewhere so hope that works.)

― the beebfox, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's a couple of months old, but I found this Michael Robinson interview very entertaining. Did you all see it?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

re Villa Champions League - I was the one - yes me - who tipped Charlton to go down this season but there they are in contention for that 4th spot along with Villa and about 5 other teams. this doesn't really tell you anything much about THIS Premiership season tho, if you know me and my predicting abilities.

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Thank you N. FWIW I think Michael Robinson does exactly what he's told on the telly, they've just managed to convince him otherwise. And he and his fellow presenters are just as much up each other's arse as Hansen and co. And his programme has a whole section devoted to refereeing errors. Etc, etc. And at one and a half hours it's far too long.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 18 April 2004 15:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

It was really the thoughts on Britney and Kylie.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 18 April 2004 15:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Sorry.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

so how come noone's talking about this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/3697713.stm

???

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

I wonder what the Liverpool Echo's position is on this. I recall they disdainfully dismissed the 'Manchester consortium' (Kenwright-led group bidding for EFC in the mid-90s) in favour of solid, local businessman Peter J*hns*n (former Anfield season ticket holder).

This is an especially miserable moment to revive this thread - Everton on the verge of completing one of their worst seasons of all time (9 wins - which we won't add to at City - equalling 71-72, 79-80 and 97-98's nadirs) while Liverpool will be Champions Leaguers again tomorrow night courtesy of Southampton.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

Turned out nice again, in't it?

― George the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

You can stick your ukelele up your arse.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

If only George had have lived long enough to have released 'When I'm Cleaning Windows' on Factory Recds. George is holding his uke just the same way that Ian C held his vox teardrop....

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ukelele was a waste of money

― ken bates (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 17:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

Moyes has been apologizing for the season. He also says he needs a load of money; but he is to sign a new contract.

Something I don't like: Michael Owen saying 'my contract negotiations will last a long time... they're not the kind of thing you can sort out in a week', plus 'it's not about money'.

So what is it about? 'Finding out whether the club are ambitious enough to take my career to the next level', maybe? I don't see how prolonged contract negotiations can resolve such a question.

I also think, as probably I have already said on this thread, that Owen owes Liverpool something now, not the other way around.

I don't like the way he keeps his clean and local image despite being essentially greedy and disloyal.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 19:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

How is he greedy and disloyal? Lots of players of his calibre would have left Liverpool a long time ago, and they might have been right to do so too.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 20:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

They might leave, but one is accountable for one's choices - he chose to do the 'I'm staying with Liverpool, cos I believe in them, and I've been with them for ages etc' then turn around and go. It might not be right, nor fair, but is understandable given what has gone before. Choices, responsibility and accountability to thread (and football).

Just realised that I've not added that the real hero / villain of this thread is Howard kendall. When he left, Harvey became manager, in an attempt (I suspect) to recreate the boot room culture (and no bad thing for cottoning onto continuity as key facet of success). However, Harvey never replaced himself, and thus the Everton scouting system missed some young lads who as Evertonians, really wanted to play for the club. Like Fowler. Like McManaman, and like the boy Michael. Opps. Big fucking oops.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 20:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

After Saints 3-3 Toon tonight I'd like to offer hearty congratulations to all the nice Liverpool fans I know on achieving Champions League status with the same number of points that took Everton to 7th last year.

I'd resigned myself before tonight that Liverpool missing out on the mother of all club competitions would only be like Becker skipping the clay court season with a knee injury - kinda satisfying but ultimately you know you'd be missing out on some possible comedy.

4th place, though...wow. It's absolutely the best you could've hoped for and you've done it. Crack open the sparkling wine. I'll have a gin and bitter lemon.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

We deserved nothing, but I guess funny old game etc etc. We can't be that many points ahead of your boys anyway can we.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

great game between newcastle and saints! shame liverpool-newcastle match isn't a fight for the c.league tho, that would have been fun for the neutral. i looked at the pool starting 11 before the birmingham game, and thought "actually, that's quite a strong team". it was = dudek, finnan, hyppia, carragher, riise, kewell, gerrard, hammann, murphy, owen, heskey. strong finish should not gloss over the fact that houllier has had 2 dodgy seasons in a row, though.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

We can't be that many points ahead of your boys anyway can we.

20, probably 23 come Saturday. That's a lot - it was down to seven or eight a few weeks ago. All sour barbs aside, Liverpool *have* finished strongly - you were bound to prosper once Houll remembered who was supposed to take the pens.

I wonder if I've still got that Marseille game on tape? I need cheering up.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

I agree it's been a good finish, the last few performances have been, as I said upthread, close to the best all season.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think Gerrard (the Scouse version, not the French one) can take a lot of credit for the strong run in.

Would like to reiterate what a cracking game that was last night. It makes you wonder how 0-0 bore draws can happen. End to end, great saves, you knew goals would be scored, rookie youngsters trying to prove themselves etc. An unexpected delight.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 08:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

That Southampton keepers save from the Shearer header had me putting in admiration, there should have been more made of it, it was a "wondersave".

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 08:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

purring even, I was not playing gelf

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 08:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

Newly weds can't spell.

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 13 May 2004 09:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

the gelf thing was intentional though :o(

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

Hi Chris!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

Hi PJ!

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

i'm gutted that Liverpool v Newcastle won't be the titanic showdown it promised to be. No meaningful Premiership games at all this weekend.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

which games are on SKY?

and is sky showing the lakers/Spurs game?

oh oh, I seem to have caught amurikan

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Battle of the sad sacks at the City Of Manchester stadium for the wooden spatula. Or Villa beating United 11-0 to sneak that Champs Lge spot.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

villa and newcastle still have to fight it out4 the last uefa cup spot, don't they? do milwall get an automatic uefa spot from the uefa cup, or does it go to the 6th place team if they lose?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

Milwall are in Europe next year.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

thx mikey g. i hope villa get the uefa spot, o'leary deserves it, his achievements usually get downplayed cos of him being a wanker.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

O'Leary has done well. I prefer him now he's dropped all that 'my young lads' crap.

Milwall could do more damage to Europe than Hitler.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

talking of which, ar ethere ILx plans for watching the battle of the countries two most hated teams on Saturday week?

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

'my young lads' has changed to 'my small squad' now.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

i assumed both Newcastle and Villa had already qualified for next season's UEFA Cup, with Millwall and Middlesbro completing the usual quartet

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

i haven't bothered watching the FA Cup final for a few years but I'm up for a FAP if others are - Apple Tree if open?

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

(i thought there was only 3 places for the uefa?)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

eek, not the Apple tree any more, it's changed, and not at all for the better.

hmmm, we need to think on this

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yes! One UEFA Cup place for fifth place, one for Milwall, one for Middlesbrough.

Now, let's talk about something else. Like naked girls dripped in beeswax.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

or the play-offs?

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

sun-der-land! sun-der-land!

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

i'm hoping aldershot go up just so there are less than 10 teams in the conference within an hour of london (also aldershot is a HOLE)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

Aldershot is all too shot

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

Terry Scott used to go.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

There is a thread for the playoffs somewhere.

Yes, three Yoofa Cup places - only two national associations get four and I'm guessing that's Italy and Spain currently. There's always sneaking in the back door via the Intertoto (no English clubs this year?) or the Fair Play assessment.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

Sunderland, my spotty botty. C'mon you Irons.

No applications from English clubs for intertoto places this year. Not sure if UEFA's fair place nonsense will include English clubs though.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

that was how man city got in this year wasn't it?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm hoping to see the claret and blue boys get to the playoff final and then lose. Footage of fans crying always makes me smile, and its going to hurt twice as hard with West Ham.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

BBC says Robinson to Spurs. I'm sure there's a thread for this, but still.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

transfer news and speculation

Best thread ever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 May 2004 12:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

I admire Mike's lemon bitterness.

A thought which struck me is: I wonder how he would feel, about this season, if he did not like Arsenal.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

Curiously it's been a bad season for every club in the Premiership except for Portsmouth, Middlesbro and I suppose the Gooners

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

Steve, that's possibly the wisest thing you've ever said.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

And Villa.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

That's very harsh on Steve.

And Birmingham.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

How a good season for Boro?

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

Won cup. In Europe.

...and Bolton. They're best ever Premiership season and a cup final.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

I guess, they'd want to be really, the amount of blown money over the last few years.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

They have to pay more because no-one want to live there.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Are you putting on a Johnny Foreigner voice when you say that?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

it's not that harsh on steve, I read the post and almost out loud said "of course, that's why this may have been the worst premiership season so far"

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

yes, id add in bolton and villa also. but, thinking of expectations, what about fulham? tipped to go down, so surely their season is a huge success? but then, earlier this season they looked able to palce higher than they did

for many teams, it seems a curious season

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

man city? top in September, wooden spoon in May - very curious, or maybe not considering they have Kelvin Koogan at the helm

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

late flourishes from Villa and Bolton, surprising most if not all of us. Granted their positions surpass their ambitions for this season I suspect. Fulham, Southampton and Birmingham will also be content. I should have phrased it 'it's not been a GOOD season for anyone but the three originally mentioned', merely adequate (Charlton - because they fell at the last hurdles but can still be proud), disappointing (Spurs, Blackburn, Everton etc.) or downright disastrous (Leeds)

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

Err - Chelsea??

Champions League semi-final and second in the league, surpassing Man U? Given that they were 10-1 for the title even after Abramovich had taken over and bought half the world, I'd say this was a good season.

I am coming to the conclusion that it is the stupidest thing stevem has ever said.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

look, they won NOTHING

― Bigotron (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

he did say outside the top three N.

And hasn't Peter Kenyon (who is an absolute prat) declared Chelsea's season a failure?

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

If I was a Charlton fan I would feel crushingly disappointed with the second half of this season. With Scott Parker playing they could've been in the Champions League or at least the UEFA by now. Of course, he was "unsettled" - there's a pretty compelling argument for keeping rival agents away from players altogether under bane of a hefty fine.

I don't understand all these Chelsea fans and board members crying about it. It's not like they aren't going to be winning trophies and in the Champions League next season and every season until Abramovich decides its safe to pull all his dodgy money out of the UK.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh right - sorry. He should surely have said outside the top two, then?

Ha - Bigot Ron was good enough, but Bigotron takes it to another level.

Peter Kenyon is to be disregarded. It was only a disappointment because they came so close.

I heard the other day that Abramovich had no expectations of winning anything in the first season anyway.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

If I spent £110m on a football club (it's unlikely, yeah) I'd want trophies and if I didn't get them I would gun people down. I'd get away with it because of my wad.

So, out of all the Premiership clubs, which is the one that had the most average season (didn't exceed expectations or disappoint). Southampton?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 13 May 2004 15:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

definitely, have you seen their record? goal difference = 0, something like won 12 drawn 11 and lost 14

― chris (chris), Thursday, 13 May 2004 15:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

there's no guarantee Chelsea will win anything next season either. It's been a very disappointing season for Manchester Utd, more than Chelsea - the nature of their Champions League exit really being the wet blanket over the fire of the Highbury victory.

Southampton beat Man Utd (it seemed impressive at the time at least) and Liverpool twice - a good season for them but nothing to really show for it.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 15:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

It was Claudio who said Chelsea wouldn't win anything this season. I mean, Abramovich might have said it too,But Claudio said it on Football Focus.

I think you've got to hand it to Birmingham City really.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Birmingham have done remarkably well when you consider they're run by, you know, a lady.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

I deleted that very point before posting so that I look like a New Man.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

I am referring to Steve Bruce of course.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Steve Bruce is no lady, have you seen her table manners? shocking.

I would big up Birmingham more, if I didn't really dislike Brucey

― chris (chris), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

can't remember which match it was, but you could clearly hear the opposing fans chanting:

FAT GEORDIE BASTARD, HE'S JUST A FAT GEORDIE BASTARD

at mrs bruce, which made me chuckle...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

Birmingham are a staggeringly boring team to watch, Forssell or no Forssell. Quite how he manages to score so often given how few chances his team create is amazing.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

the best thing is we know that's to the tune of 'Guantanamera' (sp.) without you saying

(x-post)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

i was going to put "to guantanemera" but thought it was so obvious :)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

PJ, I didn't see Football Focus with Claudio. This was one of 5Live's correspondents reporting what Abramovich had said to someone. That he knew that you couldn't win a championship with a team that had just been thrown together, and that Ranieri was just there in a holding role till he could get the manager he wanted to win it for him in the second season. So if they don't win next year, then yes, disappointment.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Birmingham provided my favourite moment of the season when David Dunn tried one of those kick behind the other leg showboats and fell over. That's up there with the Newcastle free kick from a few years back when they all ran off and forgot about the ball.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

and, of course, matt mattias (sp?) flooring robbie savage...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Robbie Savage is a cunt. I fucking hate that cunt Robbie Savage.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ray Mathias? but yes that was very funny, especially as that dumb sack of dung got up looking to retaliate.

― chris (chris), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

The first part of Abramovich's comments tally with Ranieri on Football Focus before the start of the season, the second part sounds as if it's all his own work.

My admiration for Birmingham is based solely on league placing and my natural belief that they are always shit. I don't like Robbie Savage either, but I think that's part of his job, to be as much of a cunt as possible.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

ILX is so much BETTER since PJM appeared.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 14 May 2004 10:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

if Savage had short hair people wouldn't be half as mean to him

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 May 2004 10:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

It really was a disappointing season for the blues. Yet Moyes has signed a new contract, I think?

Meanwhile Keegan gives 2 years' notice to quit.

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 18 May 2004 13:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

Everton bid £7m for Alan Smith. Everton!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

You've got to wonder where the money's coming from or rather, who we're selling. Maybe Moyes think it's like eBay and he won't necessarily have to pay his maximum bid, just be the highest.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

I read yesterday that Moyes was sulking cos he only had 1.5m to spend this summer!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

eBay transfer market now!

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

Somebody should do an Alan Smith auction on eBay. Buyer must collect, will accept paypal, no timewasters....

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

We must be selling Radz for 5.5 then. Joe Cole on loan was another Goodison rumour. After the shocking season we've just had who would want to come?

Over the park: Gerrard making grumbling noises and Heskey gone. Thoughts, Red people?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

Radzinski £5.5m? Never! End of last season that might have been feasible. I hate to say it, but considering Moyes was disappointed with the £1.5m budget he had, the young lad may be on his way.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

Houllier off within a few days? I am now believing the hype.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

so if hou goes and then gerrard and owen go too, what exactly is left in the red side?

riise (what happened to him this season, he was rather anonymous i thought), murphy and kewell i suppose, but not exactly championship winning is it?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Jamie Carragher - international warrior!

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think Gerrard and Owen are probably more likely to stay if GH leaves. And I think investors are more likely to give LFC £££s if GH leaves, too. It's very sad.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

fite appparently both Everton and Liverpool want Alan Smith.

However according to Alan Smith's agent he wants a move to Man Ure [so he can be a posing big time charlie]

Man Ure have only bid 5 million?

Therefore for Leeds United fans this a double whammy: player goes to hated rivals and they get screwed in the transfer market.

by the way Houllier deserves the sack, Liverpool need a fresh start. i hope the board has the guts to act now and not waste another year of underachievement.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think DJM could be the new Darren Tackle.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

So Liverpool pay the biggest total for a player in their history (a player earmarked by Houllier) and then sack him?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

If only Everton had an immensely valuable asset they could offload for several times the sum they are bidding for Smith. *sigh*

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

I did allude to him above.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

So we're agreed, Kevin Kilbane is on his way out then?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

Madrid bound.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

GALACTICO!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't think Everton have beaten Liverpool in a race to sign a name player since the '60s. Possibly Howard Kendall from Preston. Wily old Catterick.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

There's no way Gerrard or Owen will go, I reckon. And as others have said, if Houllier goes this is even more certain. I feel sorry for GH but I hope he goes now.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

If Liverpool sign Joey Barton off us, then I will hate them more than I normally dislike them for being scouse.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

Cue scousers robbing arf jokes by Kelvin.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

B-b-but Joey Barton is scouse too! As I have said elsewhere, it is his destiny to become the third pin in the great Huytonian LFC triumvirate.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

I have a feeling in my waters about Shaun Wright-Phillips as well.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

In English Nipper pls!

(robbing scousers = lfc is they take Barton etc)

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Au revoir, Gerard

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

ta ta Gerard, goodbye sweet Emile - very sad.

We need to continue with the signing of Cisse, it's imperative. I'd rather we signed SWP than Barton to be honest.

O'neill should be new manager, not Curbs or Mclaren.

Apparently Kenwright is looking for 10 mil of money from "new loans (eek!!!), a new Thai sponsor (Merseyside to be renamed New Siam?) and some re-mortgages of his properties"

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

i feel sorry for HOullier, why does it always happen just after they tell the press they're 100% confident they will be in charge next season?? the inevitability of it all is frustrating (i would rather Houllier had been more successful with the club)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool Won't Win The Premiership 2004-2005?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

That BBC report doesn't mention Martin O'Neill. Has he now been ruled out for some reason?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

Celtic board is trying to lock him in a cupboard I think.

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

What about Larsson as manager - he's available.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

O'Neil wants a break away from football? Don't believe it myself.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

I am shocked to see Strachan mentioned on the shortlist.

I would be happiest with Jellybean Benitez, but Curbs might be good.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

Maybe O'Neill just interested in managing Liverpool, ever consider that scenario?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Not for the past four years, no.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I keep thinking O'Neill will leave but he never does

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

Please no Curbishley or McLaren or basically any of the home suggestions I've heard except O'Neill.

Also Liverpool Won't Win The Premiership 2004-2005?

Is this really worth posting? They weren't going to win it with Houllier in charge anyway.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 May 2004 09:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

What's wrong with Curbishley?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 09:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

I was hoping it would give The Pinefox a warm glow inside - kind of like a little joke.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 24 May 2004 09:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool DID come the closest they have to winning it under Houllier for over 10 years at least

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 May 2004 09:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think next year's Pinefox football thread should be: Everton and Spurs will be relegated 2004-2005

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

was surprised to see Strachan in the reports I read yesterday.

Curbishley is a great manager, Charlton don't have much money (just like with O'neill and leicster) and I think he could get this if O'neill really isn't available.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

That's arguable Steve, they were 5 points clear at Christmas under Evans, to me they were more in the race that year than any other year of the long wait.

I just don't like Curbishley, he doesn't seem sharp enough to me. Also he hasn't done amazingly well, who's to say they don't have a crap season next year, highly likely I'd wager.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

I wonder what will happen to Thompson? He stepped in well when Houlier was ill.

Why hasn't anyone started a Houllier to Spurs rumour?

Charlton do have money to spend. Remember Scott Parker?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

if Keegan was a better coach...

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

I still maintain they were firmer Easter-period contenders under Evans than under Houllier. Only one less trophy than Dalglish, though?

I enjoyed his hangdog face, his delusional rants and the missus had a real soft spot for him. I'll miss the fella.

xpost

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

Poor Phil Fffompson. Those were a black few months.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think next year's Pinefox football thread should be: Everton and Spurs will be relegated 2004-2005

Are you trying it, Jerry? I think Jerry's trying it. Don't try it. Just don't. DO. NOT. TRY. IT.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

Prediction : O'Neill in. Will bring H. Larson.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

O'Neill might take a break from top-class football - he's going to Spurs!

If he left, would Moyes be temptable? Being an Celt and all that?

I've said it before - if hew goes, put money on them for the league.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think they main problem with Curbishley is that his name sounds too parochial and not 'top flight' enough. He should rechristen himself Alain Curbishlé.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

and his Gallic supporting team, Mervyn Jour and Stephan Greet.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

This is true, N. Liverpool need to offload some of their meat'n'potatoes-sounding players too. Replace Owen, Gerrard and Murphy with Kyzanzi, Elbraunoisseiger and Obansanjo-Sobansanjo.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Mikkel, you should apply for the job yourself (viewing an Everton fan as an inappropriate choice would show a very backwards-looking attitude).

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

er, Michel. Mikkel would be Danish?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

So - Houllier is going? Has gone?

It's news to me, though old news.

― the bluefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

I know, Mike - I didn't want to restrict things to France.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

Champions' League Final: Bull & Mouth, Weds night: any takers?

― the gofox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry said: "The board decided change was necessary if we were to realistically challenge for the title next season."

Liverpool won't win the Premiership title 2004-5. And NOW you're gonna believe me.

"I may have left Liverpool, but Liverpool will not leave me," said Houllier.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

Real Madrid manager Carlos Q has just been sacked.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

"I may have left Liverpool, but Liverpool will not leave me," said Houllier.

One would have to be an insensitive chump not to be a little moved by this.

Mikkel, you should apply for the job yourself

As long as it involves telecommuting or, at a pinch, a portakabin in Stanley Park.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

:'''''(

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

Time to get the Alaves video out, Jerry - commentary off, Gilbert O'Sullivan soundtrack on.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

I heard Houllier became a different person after his surgery and was quick to turn minor issues into tests of loyalty and generally reduced many issues to 'with me or against me'.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

Jones is OTM.

― the bluefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

'I heard'

― the bellefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

'I heard Michael Collins was shot by the ghost of James Connolly'

― the finefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

from what I understand Dave, this is entirely possible, sufferers of heart attacks and subsequent heart surgery become prone to moodswings and tetchiness due to things going a bit wonky in the noggin after blood/oxygen starvation.

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Have we got crocodile tears from the very person who kept the Liverpool will NOT win the Premiership title thread alive???

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

Nothing befits the man as his passing

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

That's thrue what that man's afther sayin', about the wonky noggin an' the moodyswings and the starvation, it's desthroyed he is surely.

― Rosie Redmond, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

If Ronan means me - which perhaps he does not, but I will assume it for a moment - then:

I started the Liverpool Won't Win The Title to make, and discuss, the point that I thought that Liverpool would not win the title -- at a time when, unlike now, various people were saying that they would. (Robin Carmody, for one, was emphatic.)

They did not win the title: I was correct. I like Liverpool, much more than I did, say, 10 or 15 years ago: and I would have been delighted if they had won the title this year.

I also like M. Houllier, a lot, and have done for a long time: search far and wide through ilx and find something that contradicts this.

― the bellefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

Seriously, though, kids: Champions' League Final: Y / N?

― the bellefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

I like Houllier but he did sign some nonces. That's you, Mr Daio. And you, Mr Cheyrou. And don't get me started on The Hadj. Worse than Heskey.

Liked the man, though.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

Jose Antonio Camacho appointed Real Madrid manager.

― de, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

Calamacho!!!!

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I always hated him, from his ... physog in the 1982 stickerbook on.

― the pinefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 11:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think Cheyrou could still come good. And Sina-Po and Le Tall look good investments, aussi.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

Former Madrid player. Isn't this supposedly something to do with Jorge Valdano getting 'his man'?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think Liverpool should hire George Graham.

Ranieri still hasn't been properly sacked, has he? What price a Claudio to Liverpool, do you think? If Martin O'Neill really does go to Spurs instead of Liverpool he is a fule, and I say that as a Spurs fan.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

they're old mates apparently, and don't forget the white vulture is also involved high up there.

x-post

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

I reckon Liverpool should go for a dream team: David Pleat as Director of Football and Howard Wilkinson as Technical Coach

Liverpool would have a chance of winning the title in 2005/2006 with them - the First Division title !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

I hear Jim Smith is available.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

DC: are you up for watching Ch League Final, Weds?

Martian tickles me.

He really does, the more I read his work.

― the bellefox, Monday, 24 May 2004 12:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

As a Celtic fan can I say that getting Dalglish involved is NOT a good idea - we ended up with John fucking Barnes as manager. Once a Rangers fan, always a Rangers fan

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

PF wednesday is the only night i'm not going to the pub this week, so i think i will be watching at home...

also claudio has said he is very happy in london, so he must be after the barnet job...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Good rapper, though.

x-post.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

PF, I'd love to watch two Great Clubs Of Europe go for The Big One but this Wednesday is the only evening across two months of the calendar that our department could agree on for a night out. In the wake of Chelsea's defeat I withdrew my objections on footy grounds and, well, here we are.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

Pinefox - as will all things at the moment this all depends on whether I can walk/use crutches properly by Wednesday. I would like to, though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think Liverpool fans should be grateful to get a manager of the calibre of Curbishley. He's someone who's taken a club which were on the verge of extinction to the verge of Europe with a fraction of the money that say Keegan, Souness or yes, Houllier had.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

And his brother manages the Opera Babes and has taken them to the verge of the Operatic Champions League.

He has part of a finger missing too.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

That is because he keeps Paulo DiCanio in a cage and feeds him solely on raw meat in order to preserve that vital onfield aggression. He got too close once.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

I understood it to be gangland related, but I like your version better.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 12:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Camacho was appointed Real Madrid manager a couple or three seasons ago but he resigned before the start of the season because they wouldn't let him have his own 'backroom boys'. I hope, I hope, I hope history repeats itself.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 24 May 2004 13:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

That was during Sanz's time, though. Big ego clash. Perez is up for re-election shortly, hence crowd pleasing appointment.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 24 May 2004 13:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

So: Weds pm: Euro final: Boyle in the Bull & Mouth. I will make it for 2nd half I hope.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm surprised no one's linked Ranieri with the job.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

I cannae BELIEVE that Strachan is in the frame. Rather than the cage. The box. The wardrobe, that's going over the blue cliffs of Dover.

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 25 May 2004 13:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Benitez, apparently

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 13:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

If so, another few seasons of exciting football at Anfield, then.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 13:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think I pretty much agree with everything Matt says on football. Apart from that bunch of poxy gay gimps he supports.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

that makes Spurs sound interesting tho, arf

sidenote: who on earth will employ Quieros?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

why would Strachan even consider Liverpool when Southampton seemed to be causing him enough stress as it was? perhaps we would get a COppell-esque scenario

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

Queiroz to Benfica? I'm basing this on the fact that he is Portuguese and it has nice symmetry. A quality of the game often overlooked.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

The more I think about it the more I think that O'Neill to Spurs is just not going to happen. 'Technical director' = 'we want fancy big-name foreign coach and not someone who isn't going to let all the cool stuff about actual signings be done by someone else'.

The upside of this is that we therefore won't get Harry Redknapp even if he does leave Pompey.

I think Curbishley to Liverpool could be a good move - one of the top clubs HAS to take a chance on a homegrown manager eventually and Curbs is the master of the team ethic, something largely lacking at Liverpool over the past couple of seasons. I'd like to see what he could do with a decent budget as well.

I find it kinda funny how all of a sudden no one is looking for "the next David Moyes" any more.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Matt, be honest, did you ever seriously believe that Martin O'Neill would manage Spurs?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

The team ethic was not what was lacking at Liverpool, they were lacking an individualist ethic if anything, or some individual skill players.

I will be disgusted if Curbishley gets the job.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Dada - yes. The Spurs job is a plum job for a manager who wants to take the credit for building up a mediocre team with lots of good young potential and a bit of money.

Its two seasons down the line when there are 11 first team injuries and you are therefore still playing Gary Doherty, floundering in 13th position and the fans are baying for your head is when it becomes an abysmal job.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

The criteria for anybody coming has to be exactly the same as applied to Gerard, and the common sense thing is - who is the candidate most likely to help us challenge for the title next year?" said Parry. "A track record is obviously important. If you are looking at someone's ability to win trophies, proof of doing it clearly helps."

Not Curbishley, then.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

I ask because, no offence to you or Spurs' fans, but when this story was first floated the collective laughter of Celtic fans could be heard on Jupiter.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

I thought Curbishley wanted the West Ham job a couple of years ago. Unfortunately when asked about his future in public, 20,000 Charlton fans were surrounding him. He either wasn't interested in the job, or bottled it (and you can hardly blame him if the latter is true).

Incidentally, I have an option for a ticket for Saturday's play-off. £200! What would you do in the same scenario?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

Cardiff.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

If you are looking at someone's ability to win trophies, proof of doing it clearly helps.

Not an Englishman then

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

I've already told you G - just go.

remember - wwad

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

Boyler: remember - Bull & Mouth.

― the bluefox, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 11:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

I can't make the Bull & Mouth as I have to show an Italian round my flat. Dammit.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 11:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

Are you trying to bribe Ranieri into taking the Spurs job, Matt?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 11:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

There'll be tinkerin' tonight...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 11:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

If Strachan then why not O'Leary?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 11:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

hmmm maybe it's Mourinho

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 20:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

Is that a tango?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 20:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

more a merengue

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 20:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

A sheep?

― Mooro (Mooro), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 20:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oi!

Boyle!

― the bluefox, Thursday, 27 May 2004 10:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sheepishhishly raises hand and pleads extenutating circumstances am not at liberty to divulge

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Strange times. METRO today says Benitez isn't going to Liverpool; Guardian quite extensively says that he is.

I am starting to think that Liverpool were, if sadly, right to fire Houllier. I think this new geezer might just do something.

I don't think I like Mourinho.

Did anyone see Ray Wilkins on Sky after the game: 'if only some of our boys had been out there, they would have given Porto more of a game'?

United lost to Porto; Chelsea lost to Monaco, who lost to Porto; Arsenal lost to Chelsea.

Huh!

― the bluefox, Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Of course Boyle would not have seen that: so I have to report it back to him.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ray Wilkins is turning slowly into Uncle Fester.

I like Mourinho because he looks a bit like Merle Haggard on the cover of "Branded Man".

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

he's a hottie

― chris (chris), Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

He kept on talking to the Sky reporter, wouldn't just say "no comment", he had to keep baiting him. I think I want him in charge.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ray Wilkins yesterday...

― Venga, Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

Aw SHIT!! This is what I meant to post:

― Venga, Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

I like Mourinho because he looks a bit like Merle Haggard on the cover of "Branded Man".

True!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, if he goes to Liverpool I'm sure there'll be plenty of Loretta Lynn lookalikes wanting their picture taken with him.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 27 May 2004 13:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

That's no way to talk about Jerry the Nipper.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 27 May 2004 13:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Looks like Benitez has quit Valencia... he's clearly going to be at Liverpool within the week.

Has there every been a time when two sides in the top four have sacked managers in the summer?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

i'd be surprised if there was, how interesting. Benitez to Liverpool makes sense i suppose. but won't Real get to him first?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

There is no way Real would go for a defensive coach like Benitez. Also there would probably be hatred and bloodshed at the Bernabeu next season.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Whereas the Jolly Scousers will welcome another defensive coach at Anfield with open arms?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

it's what we need, really.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Real have already appointed Camacho anyway haven't they?

― Jonnie, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

oh yeh i'd forgotten about that. Camacho did well with Spain didn't he - the '02 World CUp squad actually looked like winners to me, they didn't count on that dodgy ref against South Korea tho. shame as i think they would've crushed Germany and given Brazil a very close run. I expect Real to return to greatness pronto.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

''The Spurs job is a plum job for a manager who wants to take the credit for building up a mediocre team with lots of good young potential and a bit of money.''

sorry i might have misread this but are you joking matt? o'neill has already shown he can do this kind of thing with leicster city.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

I didn't realise until this very morn, that Benitez was the guy who took Extremadura into La Primera. Well, he was. And straight back down again, natch.

Does he speak English? Most of these foreigners do. They learn it in school, innit.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

o'neill has already shown he can do this kind of thing with leicster city.

true but Spurs are still considered an echelon higher (never mind what league tables say), not big enough for O'Neill to ditch Celtic for tho I'm sure.

We need to teach forinnas to say 'innit'

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Where do we wise ones think Ranieri's off to then?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

Benitez does indeed speak English, and is reportedly very fond of the English football.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ranieri to Roma maybe?

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I reckon he's had enough of the UK, don't blame him

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ranieri has been linked to Roma, and also Spurs, but Roma are in financial difficulties (capello joined juve this weekend).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

Everyone's in financial difficulty these days. Where's Hitzfeld going?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ranieri's settled in London. Although with a £6m pay-off, he could settle where he likes.

I think Spurs is a real option.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Leicster => didn't have much of a budget, and he did show he could organise a team to play above the players individual capabilitites, so why would he want to do that again?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ranieri to Valencia? But yeah, I think he'll go to the Lane

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Roma have already snapped up the Parma coach so they have no need for Ranieri.

― Jonnie, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

So, both Euro Cup winners off to merrie england in the space of a week. England 2004 = Italy 1991 = some time before a decent english manager gets a look in - they might actually have to go abroad to make their name.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 14:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

That would be a good thing, wouldn't it?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 14:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

i'd be happy to see Ranieri at Spurs. where is Lippi now?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 14:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't see why Ranieri would necessarily have had enough of the UK... Like, sure, Ambramovich screwed him over, but has there /ever/ been a club manager as popular across all clubs? Like, ever?

I'd like to see him at Tottenham. I don't know why really, I feel completely neautral abt Spurs, maybe I just want him near, bein' all cuddly and tinkery and that.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 14:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ranieri = good at taking 2nd/3rd tier clubs and hauling them into respectable positions. Also knows how to organise a defence. Frankly I'd rather him than Queiroz right now.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 15:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1239720,00.html

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

If, at some future date, those who survived me had applied on my behalf, I think EFC would have done some investigation and concluded that I only qualified for the 'mobile armchair' option: dispersal on the top-deck of a cross-river bus or burial in Rake Lane Cemetery with an FM Walkman tuned to Radio City and a Peter Eastoe sticker.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/3847081.stm

I am cheered by this.

― the bellefox, Monday, 28 June 2004 14:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've been wondering which thread this belongs on - this is perfect. I am very heartened by this news.

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

The prospect of Stevie G moving to Chelsea has been depressing the hell out of me for the last two weeks. I am so glad he has come to his senses. Hopefully he will be playing alongside Pablo Aimar before long.(And maybe Liverpool will end up buying Duff anyway.)

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

dream signings from Valencia? Possibly Aimar (although we don't really need a midfield fannydangler, we have one in Kewell, who needs to sort himself out) but I'd like to see Baraja and Ayala.

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

I miss the days when you liked a bit of fannydangle, cabs.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think fannydanglers should be rationed JtN - one per team.

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

Good to see Gerrard not going to Chelsea.

On the fannydangle subject, the Spurs website announced results for the fans dream team. The midfield is Waddle, Hoddle, Gascoigne and Ginola. Now that, my friends, is fannydangle.

― Jonnie, Monday, 28 June 2004 15:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

!!!

― the bellefox, Monday, 28 June 2004 15:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

no place for Tony Galvin then?

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 15:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

That Spurs midfield would be great if there were anyone to get the ball for them.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 28 June 2004 16:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Strange days!

Murphy to Charlton: 'I wanted to join a team that was pehaps not so cosmopolitan'.

Owen may be off for £10m.

I fear for the Pool.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

More than you fear for Everton?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'd be really scared if I was an Everton fan. The one here at work told me yesterday "I just don't want us to be totally humiliated"

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

But ... Liverpool have a new manager who is supposed to take them back to their journey up to The Next Level. And he seems to be taking them downwards. Or maybe not - maybe his plan is still sound?

They did win last night in Europe - I must not forget that.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

how is he taking them downwards?

Selling Owen is not necessarily bad business, wait until he buys a possible replacement first, plus money now is better than no money next year.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't beleive Benitez is taking Liverpool downward - especially if Alonso signs and the Cisse-Baros partnership works. Murphy has been a minor player over the past two seasons and his loss is hardly going to be the end of the club. And the Owen money would probably be more useful than Owen himself in this day and age - especially if they can bring in Morientes or someone in his place.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool fans have nothing to fear - they're replacing quality with quality as some Rednose once said. If they close the gap on the top three without actually catching them it'll still be a successful season ('team in transition', blah blah blah). In 05-06 they might be expected to win something.

EFC weakest since summer of '94.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

Murphy departure = END OF THE CLUB, OFFICIAL

'in this day and age'

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

ha ha that's cobblers

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

Murphy was, incidentally, one of the few good things about ITV's Euro2004 coverage. Remarkably astute and articulate - a future Premiership on Monday pundit spot awaits him, no doubt. I also remember some "Encourage the kiddies to read" initiative a while back where footballers talked about their favourite books. Most of them nominated things like 'The Winds in the Willows' etc, but Murphy's choice was 'The Anatomy of Motive'.

We will probably be drubbed by Manyoo this season as a result of his departure, though.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

I have always liked Murphy; seemed a good solid professional, dedicated and hardworking. A credit to Dario Gradi.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

I didn't know Jerry the Nipper supported Liverpool. Did I?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

Boyle, is that a self-parody mail?

I don't know The Anatomy of Motive.

Premiership on Monday is over - for now.

Clive?

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

No, I really rated Murphy. I recall that Houllier told him he needed to up his game if he wanted a place - he didn't tell his agent to plant stories issuing a come and get me plea in a bid to rid Mighty Murph of his ANFIELD HELL. He just knuckled down, picked up his game, and was a credit to his profession. Top lad.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

it's just a shame that he's a complete confidence player, when he's flying he's great, but he gets a few bad games under his belt and it takes him a long while to come back up to form.

I *really * hope he does well at Charlton, lovely lad he is.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

(So... were *those* mails self-parodies?)

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

Comed? Of which mails do you speak?

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think he'll do very well indeed at Charlton - Jeffers is a more interesting one.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've just added Jeffers to my fantasy side, so I am hoping he works out well - he feels like a gamble.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Murphy's always been alright with me, especially for those couple of goals against United over the years.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

He's a solid lad, no fancy dan stuff.

― the dreamfox, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Certainly not a "big time charlie".

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

everton are only 3 places behind man u at the mo... 8)

http://www.4thegame.com/

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 16 August 2004 07:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

everton are awful.

liverpool will be there or thereabouts.

― cºzen (Cozen), Monday, 16 August 2004 07:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

(sorry mike. still, at least palace are doing well... what are you going to do next weekend when they play each other?)

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 16 August 2004 08:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

There may be a new manager and a new strike force but Liverpool looked pretty much exactly the same as they did last season. Baros was poor and Sinima-P looks like a nasty piece of work - I think they sent the wrong young striker out on loan as Le Tallec looked pretty useful on occasions last year. I like the look of Djibril Cisse though, and Josemi looks a good signing.

Spurs had seven new players (bargain basement Chelsea!) and put in a pretty solid defensive display but had no midfield creativity and rarely looked dangerous going forward, Defoe aside. Who'd have thought it?

Steve Finnan on the wing looks like a patch-up job akin to Tottenham's embryo at left back. Not a huge amount of depth in that Liverpool squad right now, is there?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 16 August 2004 08:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

it's a bit weak yes, I like the look of Josemi though - he was pretty solid, and still like the look of Carragher at CB, not sure about him getting turned so easily by Defoe though.

I like Finnan on the right wing for some reason, I know I shouldn't. I think Liverpool are a winger and a striker (at least) short of being a bet for Champs league status though. A striker being the upmost importance (I can't believe they don't have an Owen replacement contingency - my bet is Beattie)

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 16 August 2004 08:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

My bet is Mista.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Monday, 16 August 2004 08:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

All it takes is for a bigger club to wave a shiny sixpence in front of Defoe (now apparently the future of English football) and he'll join them.

I'm quite worried about these Man Utd rumours, it must be said.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 16 August 2004 08:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

what are you going to do next weekend when they play each other?

Sit in the Main Stand at Selhurst Park and grit my teeth (thanks to Tim H for the ticket).

I didn't see yesterday's debacle (I was at work and it took a text message from TH to remind me it was even happening - it was 0-3 by then so no great further pain) but I'm sure Arsenal will do that to a dozen teams this season. I thought Carsley's goal was sweet.

We started 84-85 with a 1-4 home defeat, y'know...

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 16 August 2004 10:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Xabi Alonso looks like a done deal, this is a *very good* thing, a good basque boy who probably loves his mum very much. I like his style, he is very good

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 16 August 2004 19:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if he will import his mum, like Reyes.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 16 August 2004 19:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

most likely, and a few black pigs too hopefully

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 16 August 2004 19:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mmm, black bacon.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 16 August 2004 19:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

Does he luv his mum like that that other spanish chap who admitted being breastfed until 10?

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 16 August 2004 21:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

Hey, DC: Finnan for Spurs' right-back slot?

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 17 August 2004 15:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'd be okay with that, but I like Stephen Kelly as well. I'd prefer a creative midfielder or two though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 18 August 2004 07:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

Xabi Alonso has a foot and a half in Liverpool:

http://elmundodeporte.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2004/08/17/futbol/1092756704.html

That's still half a foot in the dancing streets of Sociedad, though.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 18 August 2004 08:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

Not a footy thing, but: did anyone hear Radio 4's documentary on the Liverpool Playhouse on Sunday?

I liked it, though they all said nice things about each other all day long.

In footy news, Everton scored more goals than Liverpool, this weekend!

― the bluefox, Sunday, 22 August 2004 23:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

We were eventually pretty impressive on Saturday.

Bent looked like he'd rather be anywhere but SE25 at first, but this was deceptive - he's not a wild, impassionate, get-stuck-in merchant like so many less talented Blues of recent years, but rather more cool and considered. He got better and better and was ultimately running the show with Gravesen. Big Dunc came on and was rubbish as ever - moaning at teammates and unable to direct a single header. Palace were lamb-like after Tommy G's peach on the hour. I loved my afternoon in the Selhurst sun.

So...our Russian benefactor - it's not Boris Zingarevich, but his 'football-mad' son Anton. I need some convincing this is an unambiguously good thing.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 23 August 2004 07:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

From When Saturday Comes' messageboard:

Boris Zingarevich graduated from the Technological University for Pulp and Paper Industry in St. Petersburg, Russia and began his professional career as a technician at Kondopoga Pulp and Paper Mill in 1985. Four years later, Mr. Zingarevich was promoted to Production Manger of St. Petersburg Cartonboard Mill. In 1991, he started his own furniture manufacturing business with the support of friends and family. In 1992, when the state was no longer a monopolist for export sales, Mr. Zingarevich founded Ilim Pulp Enterprise as a trading company specializing in export sales of pulp and paper products. During 1994, he began acquiring pulp and paper manufacturers with the goal of establishing a vertically integrated forest products company. He was successful in this effort and Ilim Pulp Enterprise acquired majority ownership of Kotlas Pulp and Paper Mill, Bratsk Forest Industry Complex and St. Petersburg Cartonboard Mill. Mr. Zingarevich currently serves on the Board of Directors for Ilim Pulp Enterprises, which employs 36,000 people with annual sales in excess of $1 billion. The Ilim Group is the 67th largest processor of timber in the world today.

Seems he's not in the Roman 'I'm a scarily evil cunt of a shitbag twathead privatising asset-stripping thief fuckhead of a arsehole' Abramovich league, which i'd say was good for Everton.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 23 August 2004 08:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

Is that the official Supporters Direct angle on Abramovitch, Dave?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 23 August 2004 10:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

Very unoffocial and very personal. Who is Dave? Who are Supp0rters D1r3ct? Can we plz google proof pls and Roman Abram0v1ch genuinely scare me.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 23 August 2004 10:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sorry Dave!

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 23 August 2004 10:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Everton just can't stop winning.

Liverpool are back.

― the bellefox, Monday, 13 September 2004 13:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

back of the queue?

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 13 September 2004 13:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

third!

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 20 September 2004 08:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

This is a bit off

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N146075040919-1115.htm

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 20 September 2004 08:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

Stuart Hall's 'bullfighting' interview of Rafael Benitez on 5 Live was excruciatingly bad. He wanted to show off the Spanish he picked up during the It's a Knockout years. Actually, I don't think Franco would let Spain participate in It's a Knockout, he must have picked it up on holiday. Anyway, it was painful because of Stuart Hall, but I found myself liking Benitez for the first time. I hope he beats Mourinho.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 25 September 2004 16:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am worried about Liverpool. 'Average, appalling, abysmal'. On the limited evidence of the highlights, that sounded close enough to accurate.

Everton will bounce back. It is probably right that Redknapp gets a ban.

Today I found myself thinking of Trevor Steven, and how he never convinced me. I guess I always came at him from the wrong angle.

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Redknapp's ban will coincide nicely with the return of Davies and Carrick, thus pushing him way down the pecking order. I suspect that, during suspension, he will injure himself for the rest of the season in training. Therefore claiming that he was never dropped - he was just unlucky with injuries and suspension.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

There's footage of Tricky Trev scoring a flying header vs Southampton on my SEVEN GOAL THRILLERS video, Foxy. Spooky - Goodison gets quieter and quieter the more goals we score. All because of Dogleash's toe-poke at Stamford.

So far, so 02-03. EFC grinding out victories (though our rampaging first-half performance was for nought last Saturday) and LFC useless away from Anfield.

What differences has Jellybean made to LFC's playing style, if any?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

Matt DC: It will be true!

Mike: I fear that JB'n has made LFC less effective.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool are alarmingly inconsistent - one game they can look truly fantastic, the Monaco game for instance, the next utter cobblers. Although a 1-0 defeat to a frankly inpenetrable Chelsea team is hardly a disaster.

Its too early to judge Benitez's effect on the team but he couldn't make them much worse than the last couple of Houllier seasons surely?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

Last couple of seasons: 5th (+ League Cup) and 4th. They can do MUCH worse than that.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, if Spurs and Everton are going to be occupying 4th and 5th slots, then they'll have to.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

I shall take that back then, and we'll all go and jeer Arsenal down the Wishful Thinking stadium.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 12:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think Benitez has brought in some excellent players who haven't got to know each other yet, and he hasn't quite settled on a formation either. Give it a few weeks, and Steve Gerard returning, and I think they will be very good.

I can't quite work out how Everton are doing it - they aren't impressing me much, but they are getting results. I'll be surprised if it lasts, and expect them to finish outside the top 6 or so.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 13:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

'Stevie'

('Gerrard')

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 13:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, we haven't exactly beaten fantastic sides - the five wins have been against Palace, West Brom, Man City, Boro and Portsmouth. So, the fixture computer has been our friend. But Moyes seems to be very good at identifying other teams' strengths and neutralising them so that if we get a goal, there's rarely a way back for (mediocre) opposition. Our most flowing, attacking football of the season seemed to come in the first half-hour vs Spurs and yielded nowt.

Cahill has proven a very smart buy indeed and it's good to have Chadwick back in the ranks to provide non-pensionable support to Bent. Outside top 6, yes. But inside top half, I'm increasingly convinced.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 13:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am glad that Cahill is not seriously injured. I would feel slightly guilty, were he.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 14:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

> first half-hour vs Spurs and yielded nowt.

hit the woodwork twice though* = only a matter of inches.

(*think the second time was later in the match but...)

― koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 14:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

This Is The Thread Where I (Belatedly Have The Opportunity To) Say:

One-Nil

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 12:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

'Everton made the Champions League' is going to become the new 'Greece won Euro2004' smug argument-winning line for football anti-rockism, isn't it?

There's always an unlikely team up there at this point in the season, but I'm starting to think that barring a major injury crisis, Everton could actually go the distance. Unlike, say, Charlton last year, Everton don't have a Scott Parker who's up there making everything happen* but who's going to be hoovered up by the more powerful clubs during the transfer window, and that's a big, big thing in their favour.

*Maybe Gravesen, but the sort of clubs who'd go for him are Villa, Charlton and Fulham, and why would he want to go to any of them?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 12:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

How are the Tranmere Rovers doing?

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 05:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Morientes... Welcome or Bugger Off? Perhaps this should be on the Transfer Window thread that I dream about every night.

The Madrid want Stevie G...

Most people here seem to think it is Urgent and Key to live in London, so Gravesen will probably want to sign for Charlton or Fulham for that reason alone. And it'll be no use any London-residing Everton supporters crying about it, either.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 10:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

are Liverpool after Lauren Robert now?

― Frankenstein On Ice (blueski), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 11:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

Tranmere conceded 6 on Saturday, using 3 keepers in the process, Theodore Whitmore (Jamaican international midfielder) wa sthe third and was regaled with calls of "it's behind you" shortly after he wafted at another shot going in. They are still second in the third division though

Morientes = good in the short term I think, I still think there may be a very cheeky bid for someone else as well (so long as it's not Kanoute)

Robert? I blooming well hope not.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 11:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

We may have peaked with the derby win judging by our inability to threaten a very poor Blackburn side on Saturday while every other top-sixer was winning. It's the first time we've dropped points to anyone you might reasonably expect to find in the bottom half.

11-4-3 remains our best start since 1978 when another slightly jammy effort from a midfielder outside the box won us the Goodison derby. That season we faded to a distant 4th - I'd settle for that this time.

I doubt we'll lose anyone significant next month (Gravesen gives the impression of loving it on Merseyside - God knows I didn't, but I didn't cultivate the accent like he has) and Parker is, funnily enough, someone we've been linked to. Beattie too.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 12:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

parker has metatarsal knack though, I think Beattie would be a good buy for you.....if no-one else made a bid.......

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 12:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

I hope Everton remain 2nd! A proper team, and proof that you can still do the biz without a squad full of overpaid prima donnas and a full-of-shit manager (hi Arsene and Fergie). The

Off-topic, but interested to hear what people think - looks like Souness has had no effect at Newcastle. Despite his bleatings about needing a centre-back, the guy is a terrible man manager and a poor tactician. Can they improve?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 12:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

The fact that no pundits (or bookies) seem to be taking Everton at all seriously is kind of weird. Tonight on fivelive it was all Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U as per, with the assumption that one defeat to Charlton has put paid to Everton's very slim title hopes, whereas Man U can come back and win the premiership on the back of tonight's one-nil scraping past Villa. It never occurs to anyone that Everton are there because they are playing more cleverly (I can't dignify them with the word "better") than anyone else.

I hope they win it, or at least break up the big three, for the reasons Doctor C said.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 22:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

In the time it took me to walk from the car park into the newborn section of Mothercare World on Purley Way we seemed to concede two goals and get a man sent off. Fair enough, it's taken us until game 20 to have an absolute stinker.

I am getting a bit sick of EFC seemingly never being the commentary match on Five Live - it's always some entirely predictable Gunners/Chelski romp (or else it's Alan Green grumbling about another naggingly unconvincing Liverpool/Man U performance). I imagine we'll get the full VIP treatment on the airwaves this Saturday as Defoe tears us to bits.

We can't get that transfer window open quick enough (someone should throw a brick); no cover at all and major injury #1 has just arrived: Nigel Martyn out for a month. Rooney, Radzinski, Jeffers, Pembridge, Alexandersson, Unsworth, Gemmill, Linderoth - all gone. It's very threadbare below the first-choice XI. It's for this reason that I find the general tone of condescension towards our achievements thus far in 04-05 a bit irksome but also kinda understandable. We could keep checkmating teams in one-nilness if everyone remains magically fit but that's not going to happen; Chelsea would still average 2pts/game if they had eight internationals kidnapped.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 23:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

souness hired for being an authoritarian - he's only an authoritarian in the sense that he'll engage enthusiastically in petty/violent training ground squabbles himself. he's shown that he can stand up to anyone - BUT he's never shown that he can *solve* training ground disharmony - everyone just left blackburn saying what a childish twat he was. he was a shit appointment and deserves the sturrock treatment more than paul sturrock did (ie. booted out without being given the chance to prove himself - its far to unlikely.)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 00:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

is souness supposed to be a calming influence on the troubled dressing-room? isn't this the man who had major bust-ups with yorke, cole, gillespie and dunn at blackburn? jesus.
-- weasel diesel (kilian(dot)murphy24@mail.dcu.ie), September 6th, 2004.

otm!

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 00:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

The other day we went through a village called Everton (after the Christchurch intervention). It looked quite nice. I sang 'EV-ER-TON: SHIT!' all the way through it. Sadly, it was a small village. Perhaps I should move there.

I am looking forward to the transfer window. The Nun has given the board a list of four players. Robbie Savage denies all responsibility for his future. Etc.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

right now, Catalunya are playing Argentina, it makes for diverting viewing. It's a shame it's on at the other end of the house

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ah yes, the Christmas Autonomous Region Selection matches. I think the Catalans are/were unbeaten for something like 300 years.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 30 December 2004 14:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Only Brazil have ever beaten them...... in 1958 or somesuch

― Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 30 December 2004 15:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

I really wish certain Evertonians hadn't let hubris bubble to the surface after the derby win and talked about the gap between EFC and Chelsea being more important than the gap between EFC and LFC. The former is now 12pts and the latter is down to 3pts after Liverpool held grimly on to a win in East Anglia this afternoon.

I'm trying to rationalise this little blip in terms of things that were long overdue - the Tight Game Lost Late On Through Indecision And Indiscipline (quite a few last season, but none before the Charlton game in 04-05) and the Thrashing By Side With Glut Of Attacking Flair (used to happen a lot under Smith, not this season since the opening day). Also slated to make an appearance before long: Agonising Home Reverse After Dominating Possession (plenty of these in 03-04, just the Spurs game in September so far this season) and Bright Start Ends Game As Contest Inside 30min With Surprisingly Good Finishing (did this vs Fulham, Leeds and Spurs last year but never this season - Beattie might change this).

Bit worrying that Martyn can keep 10 clean sheets in 19.5 games and Wright concedes seven goals in 140 minutes. We might need to score five vs Portsmouth.

I think 65pts is still a realistic target: 7-4-6 would do this. That's been good enough for a top six finish in each of the last nine seasons and a CL position in '98 and '04. I think it might be between LFC and Spurs for 4th spot ultimately.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 3 January 2005 15:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

i've been playing the Career Mode on Fifa 2005 for a while and it's only yesterday when i noticed that the simulated premiership table had Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea and Man Utd as the top four!

how weird!

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 3 January 2005 15:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I went to White Hart Lane on Saturday (as a neutral pretending to be a Spurs fan) and Spurs could easily have scored eight. I can't see Everton getting anywhere near the Champions League if they carry on like that.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 3 January 2005 18:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

Any significance to the fact that the first initials of the top five Premier League clubs in table order today spell CAMEL?

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

Spurs could easily have scored eight

Well, they had eight shots on target if the BBC stats are correct. So, Wright did OK considering the shambles going on in front of him. I saw the highlights and, yes, Spurs were rampant.

I think the presumption is we that can't be that fragile again, but we can and we will as injuries accumulate. I wonder about the wisdom of spending two-thirds of our apparent transfer budget on a talented but inconsistent big-name striker with a sub-1-in-3 goalscoring record.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

Probably not. (xpost)

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

How can anyone choose Everton over Villa? No sense of glamour, some people. Still, it might have upset the delicate balance of mercurial South American loonies at Villa Park.

I once saw an article about James Beattie and he was a robot in the pictures, you could see his wires and stuff. I think he was jumping over rooftops too.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

Hot off the rumour mill: Gravesen to Real Madrid.
Logical extension: Owen to Everton.

No, I don't believe it either.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 10:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

I believe half of it, PJM. Unfortunately.

It increasingly looks as if TG isn't going anywhere near a new EFC contract so the question is - get £2m for him now off Real or let him go for free in July. £2m = about four Premiership places, I think. TG = probably the difference between top four/six and top half or Europe and no Europe.

I see Super Kev left for WBA last week. Walter Smith's Small Number Of Good Ideas will soon be history.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

But will TG be tempted by the much-discussed fourth place striker's spot at Madrid? It looks to me like another example of Madrid and Barcelona's habit of hoovering up anyone else's promising players and then turning them to mush. I suppose other carrots will be dangled.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

Gravesen the Galactico seems likely alright.

Just reading this morning Henchoz is on his way out, to Celtic or Rangers, supposedly. He's really deteriorated so much, though obviously Liverpool need a new central defender and have done for some time. Be interesting to see how Pellegrino does.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

pellegrino:liverpool::laurent blanc:man united?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, he's certainly not a striker. I don't know enough about Madrid's squad to know where he'd fit in. That he's not cup-tied is his major appeal to the Euro giants, I think - good cover for the first XI. This is the first season where's he played with any consistency for Everton; to see someone so relishing their every outing in a Royal Blue shirt while simultaneously not even considering extending the engagement just depresses me a bit. He's even got the accent now.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've already thought of that Kilian, but nah, surely not!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Gravesen to Real = the end for Beckham?

This is not a sentence I ever expected to write in my life, it must be said, much as like Gravesen. I also apologise to Mike for tempting fate with my last comment in this thread, as well as "Kevin Kilbane - Galactico!" during the summer.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

gravesen isn't a striker, MJ otm. he actually would have a good chance of making regular starts for madrid, they never filled the tough-tackling ball-winning midfielder void left when makelele departed. they usually play beckham and guti in the centre - neither of whom win much ball - and personally i feel beckham isn't suited to the position at all (the occasional delightful sprayed pass to the flanks aside). becks should move back to a london club and start playing on the right wing again - gravesen can take over the central midfield spot at real. zidane and figo usually play in the wider midfield positions. celades is the other central midfielder at real, who's slightly more physical than becks and guti, but gravesen should have no problems easing ahead of him in the pecking order.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

Matt: you can get Zinedine Kilbane T-shirts from the EFC shop, y'know.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

I thought he was a striker all along.

Now I look like a girl.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to leave Everton right now.

Does he play 'in the hole' then?

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

http://www.squarefootball.net/content/article/article.asp?aid=1531

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Carsley plays in 'the hole' (4-1-4-1 more than 4-4-1-1), Gravesen is effectively the reincarnation of Peter Reid.

Perhaps if I wrote him a nice letter he'd stay?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 12:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yes, write him a letter. I might too. 'You are a great striker.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/g/gravesen_41516.stm

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 12:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I have just read an interview with DAVE BOYLE in WSC.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 21:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

BBC website says a deal has been agreed for Gravesen. So, we're down £4.4m this month, gained an inconsistent, unfit striker and lost our playmaker. Season over. This is like selling Peter Reid in January 1984 and signing, I dunno, Luther Blissett.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sivebaek [the agent] added: "Thomas was very happy at Everton, but when Real Madrid want to sign you, you cannot say no."

Agents, eh?

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

You CAN say no, you can say, "Actually, I enjoy the challenge of helping a club with a small squad and comparatively meagre resources return to something approaching their former glories, through hard work and team spirit; I enjoy the company of my teammates, I have immense respect for my manager, I have a great rapport with the fans, I earn a lot of money already and I'm not likely to lose my international place by staying here; going and becoming a benchwarmer at the most successful side in European club football in the knowledge that even I may be surplus to requirements come the summer so profligate are the management doesn't appeal very much. Thank you and good night."

He could've said that.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

Here it is in foreign:
http://elmundodeporte.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2005/01/13/futbol/1105651019.html
Nothing new, except they claim it might be Beckham who is relegated to the bench, rather than poxy old Guti. Also, they spell Wanderley 'Vanderlei' or something.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 11:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

beckham will be gone come summer, i have no doubt. it will be a london club. what odds beckham to spurs? can they afford it?

i am going off topic here, unfortunately.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 14 January 2005 11:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sadly, I get the feeling Vanderlei Luxinterior might sort Real Madrid out a bit, sort of like the Capello months. I hope I'm wrong.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am very proud of the interview; it's the best thing done on us for a long time.

Mike OTM - lure of Real Madrid is cockrot; they were shit until 1999, had two good seasons, and have been living off the petrol fumes of hype after the gasoline of 'being good' disappearred (see 'Manchester United')

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm ill at home and bored, and have their cup game with Valladolid on the TV. They are playing reserves and youngsters, much like the huge English clubs in the League Cup. The team includes Michael Owen.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

I can't quite see where Beckham could go if he was to return to the Premiership. Has he lost his lustre enough for Chelsea not to even consider him? I'm fairly sure Arsenal couldn't afford him, wouldn't want him and I doubt he'd want to go there. Spurs is a possibility if there's European football involved, but Frank Arnesen probably has his eye on some Dutch wonderkid available at a fraction of the price.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

My tip would be Middlesbrough though, if he wants to move there. I presume relations between Beckham and Steve McLaren are good.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yes, I would be proud too, about that interview.

Beckham > Japan, Qatar, Bolton, Boro, Rangers, somewhere like that. Also I suppose there will be a new round of millionaires wanting to make a mark.

Chileswatchers! It's time for 'Working Lunch'.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't get the reference to 'Z-Cars' in the original question.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 13:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's our theme, PJM. It's an arrangement of an old Liverpool folk song called "Johnny Todd." When the Blues took the field against Villa last February (my first trip to Goodison in a decade) I'm not ashamed to admit hearing the tune made...something fly into my eye.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 13:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

why hasn't anybody mentioned that grav is a tad more of an attacking player than makalele? surely, grav is a thug, but what he really wants is to do his long shifts and nice assists. he's a bit like the gangsta who really just wants to read books.

― Jay-Kid (Jay-Kid), Friday, 14 January 2005 18:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

Khm, excuse me but - unless samthung flew in my eye at some crucial postpoint - there's no mention of the Morientes move to L'pool, on this thread so far, or is there?
He'll be a strikeforce to reckon with, for Everton or whoever, surely.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 14 January 2005 18:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm hearing the Human League version of 'Get Carter'. Am I close?

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 19:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/tv/titles/zcars.shtml

― Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 14 January 2005 19:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm also hearing the theme from 'Some Mothers Do Have 'Em'. I suppose anything Ronnie Hazelhurst would do.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 15 January 2005 10:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

I haven't got Real Player. Perhaps we could whistle it today. Double the nostalgia.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 15 January 2005 10:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Get real!

― Mooro (Mooro), Saturday, 15 January 2005 11:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool vanquished 1-0 by lowly Burnley.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 22:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Difficult to argue with today's result (except on moral grounds, obviously) - L'pool dominant for 45 minutes and but for Milan's comedy finishing it would've been something of a hiding well before the Cahill scorcher and frenzied climax. I think I celebrated Pistone's long-overdue withdrawal almost as much the goal. Still puzzling over the mere three mins of injury time (and the fact that Dudek's time-wasting in that injury time was apparently only worth a further two seconds). I fancied us for a (probably undeserved) equaliser if we'd had the luxury of a 95th minute against the 9.5 men.

It hurts but not as much as two seasons ago (when a one-point advantage turned into a two-point deficit on Easter Saturday and we knew all was lost). I even exchanged texts with Jerry, instead of chucking myself under a 63 bus.

This might not really change things. The Olympiakos, Arsenal and Leverkusen victories didn't spark the classy surge Rednoses expected and I doubt this will (in fact, Bolton could take a point - or more - from Anfield in a fortnight) and I don't think Everton will simply dissolve into the pack either. I'm taking comfort from the memory of the 86-87 run-in when Liverpool 'had to win' the Anfield derby - they did but promptly lost at Coventry a week later, effectively ending their title challenge.

To play:
EFC (51pts, +3gd) - Palace, B'ham, Man U and Newcastle at home, West Brom, Arsenal, Fulham and Bolton away.
LFC (47pts, +12gd) - Bolton, Spurs, Boro and Villa at home, Palace, Man C, Portsmouth and Arsenal away.

Place your bets.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

Very hard to call. Thought we were good today, but as you say wouldn't be overly optimistic about Bolton (or any other game).

Probably Nunez's best game to date, thought Smicer was really awful and gave away the ball an awful lot, he's so weak! Thought Pellegrino was good today actually, which is unusual. Baros was great if he could just score. Very good match but god do we always make it hard for ourselves.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

Impossible to call.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 20 March 2005 22:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

Without the "big three", best odds:

Everton 4/6
Liverpool 11/8
Bolton 7/1
Charlton 40/1
Middlesbrough 40/1
Newcastle United 50/1
Tottenham Hotspur 66/1

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 20 March 2005 22:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

i hope bolton finish 4th

charlton fucked up in the most unbelievable fashion yesterday. they should look at themselves in the mirror. and say the word cunt.

― chorleylido (gareth), Monday, 21 March 2005 01:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

It would be extraordinary if Bolton finished 4th after that run of consecutive defeats earlier in the season. How many was it - six? Seven?

Having hung round a couple of grubby online footy forums yesterday, trying to find a Blue-friendly London pub in which to watch the derby (something JtN seemed to find by accident), I treated myself to a skim through the whole four-year span of this thread late last night - it really cheered me up. Even 'crap bunglers that are ultra boring to watch' doesn't sting like it did.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 07:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

A league in which Bolton could become entrants in Europe'a premier competition says at lot about the Premiership doesn't it? To be hoenst, given that Everton haven't had much form since Gravesen left, their continued presence in 4th is surprising too.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 21 March 2005 08:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool have the advantage because they get to play Villa, whereas Everton have to face the resurgent West Brom.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 21 March 2005 09:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

But Liverpool have about four players left.

We should be celebrating the fact that Everton and Bolton could qualify for the Champions League, not deriding it. Greece won Euro2004!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 21 March 2005 09:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think the final scoreline flattered EFC, a bit. Watching the highlights again confirmed what was, for the most part, the best LFC home game of the season. Most satisfying was watching Strachan having to admit he was completely wrong in his anti-LFC match prediction. As he was in choosing LFC as the weak link in England's Champion's League contenders in the last round. I will be glad to see him leave the Guardian punditista.

EFC now have 11 points from their last 11 games and still have to face The Arse, ManU and Newcastle... But Bolton are giving me the fear.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 21 March 2005 09:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

There could be a situation in which we travel to Bolton on the last day...and I want us to lose.

EFC now have 11 points from their last 11 games

True - post-Gravesen disintegration in full effect, as I predicted. But LFC took 7 from 7 prior to yesterday; I think we can take 12 from the last 8. If you lot take 16+, then fair enough (playing like yesterday, you will; displaying yr average 04-05 away form, you won't). Bolton taking 17 from 8 isn't that unlikely considering their run-in.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 10:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't like Bolton, me.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 21 March 2005 12:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

i dont like middlesboro.

im glad they are out of it now

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 21 March 2005 12:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

liverpool are to play bolton next. with a few of their players out

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 21 March 2005 12:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Nothing against the two Merseyside clubs, but I have immense admiration for what Sam has achieved at Bolton on bugger all money. Am I misremembering, or did a commentator say that their entire first team the other day cost something absurd like 2.3m in transfer fees?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 21 March 2005 13:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

Nothing against the two Merseyside clubs, but I have immense admiration for what Sam has achieved at Bolton on bugger all money.

Before the Rooney sale that was the Everton situation too, of course (forcing Moyes to make careful, incremental, one-in-one-out improvements to the squad; alas, the first big money splash he was allowed in nearly three years has so far produced a couple of dodgy goals and a headbutt). The Liverpool coffers, on the other hand, seem to be bottomless.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 13:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

Presumably Bolton pay those Real Madrid rejects quite a lot, and they were blethering on about signing Rivaldo at one point.

Was it their mascot that got sent off the other day?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

I did some digging around to find this data (not necessarily accurate due to the number of transfer values that are 'undisclosed') but the cost of current squads in the top six is approx:

Chelsea: £218m
Man U: £139m
Arsenal: £73m
Everton: £28m
Liverpool: £75m
Bolton: £3m

So, hats off to Sam for making full use of Bosmans.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Any idea where the chasing pack fit into that, Mike? I suspect Spurs and Newcastle dwarf Middlesbrough and Charlton in terms of spending. Although I don't for one minute imagine Boro got Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink on Mark Viduka on the cheap.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

They should rename them Blob-Sams in his honour.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

the first big money splash he was allowed in nearly three years has so far produced a couple of dodgy goals and a headbutt

But Duncan Ferguson's been there much longer than Moyes?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

I make Newcastle's squad £48m and Tottenham's £50m. I didn't know Spurs had a defender called Defendi!

Boro and Charlton to come (I really shouldn't be doing this...it's White Noise delivery day).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

Boro £28m, Charlton £27m. Hasselbaink was FREE, Viduka was £4.5m.

Markelby: ho ho.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

Please work out the wage bills. I think this is where 'Big Sam' comes unstuck.

White Noise looks very scary. I bet it is a voiceover nightmare. I am doing Jamaican patois.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

have you heard the White Noise lp, Mike? from...68? well, actually, there are 2, but i haven't heard the other one

― charlton lido (gareth), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

Big Sam survives by only signing 1-year contracts, so they can afford the wages in the Premiership, and if relegated, they're OK as the players are mostly let go anyway.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Charlton £27m

Blimey! That surprises me, I must admit.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

Euell, Johansson and Young account for £12m of that, Matt.

Charlton have 16 players in their squad who cost them something, but Boro only have five - all pricey sods, though. Ehiogu was £8m!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 17:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

I have a copy of that White Noise LP, Gareth (though not the other one). The one on Island, I mean. It's Delia Derbyshire and someone, isn't it? I remember buying it years ago (early 80s) because I had got so used to seeing the cover on the old Island inner sleeves that I'd convinced myself I wanted it. It's OK-to-not-very-good, I think. I like "Firebird".

― Tim (Tim), Monday, 21 March 2005 17:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

yea, firebird is the only track i like on it also.

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 21 March 2005 19:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 4 April 2005 09:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think I should hear this White Noise stuff

― Sven Basted (blueski), Monday, 4 April 2005 09:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

(Isn't that Gaardsoe rather than Gera?)

Inevitable post-Gravesen slump continues. Now starting to worry about Boro & Charlton. 8th seems likely. Liverpool hauling us in like in '64, '75, '78, '86, '03... Would quite like the Bianconeri to kick LFC to pieces on Tuesday.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 April 2005 09:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

Does this signal a Baggies revival?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 April 2005 09:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'd love WBA to stay up; for the sake of departmental harmony I suppose I should be cheering on Southampton too. Palace I have no affection for despite living within walking distance of Selhurst. Norwich are gone. I'd like to see one or two of Pompey, Blackburn & Fulham drop.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 April 2005 10:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

I thought they looked pretty good - especially Kieran Richardson. I enjoyed Moyles' lame post-match penalty appeal for holding hands in the box.

Is anyone else planning on watching LFC v Juve in London Town on Tuesday evening?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 4 April 2005 10:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

I might be up for this, Jerry. I appear to have been pressganged into a client-schmoozing session at some godawful bar in Hammersmith, but I might be able to escape at 7-ish for footie-watching. (It's on ITV, isn't it?)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 April 2005 10:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

I would like Blackburn to go down, and Portsmouth, and Palace and B'ham City and most of the others as well.

Out of the local teams, I think I like Wycombe best. For no reason, obv.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 April 2005 10:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

I really want Liverpool to beat Juventus, and I've hated Liverpool all my life.

I would have liked Palace to stay up, but I can't see it now. Blackburn are probably going to grind their way to safety with 0-0 draws till the end of the season. WBA are on a roll and might just make it, which probably means one of the Hampshire teams. Earlier in the season I would definitely have preferred Portsmouth, but post-Harry I don't really care if they go down.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 4 April 2005 10:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

There have been several instances of Moyes "losing it" in recent weeks - he's becoming as delusional as Houllier at his worst. First the Beattie butt, then the Anfield injury-time (he had a point, but...), now this... All the while talking us up and saying what a great season we've had after 1-0 home defeats by Charlton and Blackburn.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 April 2005 11:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

dream relegations:

palace
Portsmouth (becoming more and more of a delicious possibility)
Fulham

hmmm, hopefully two of those will happen, but Norwich have obviously scuppered me getting all three

― ceebee, Monday, 4 April 2005 13:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

> some godawful bar in Hammersmith

can you narrow this down? i might pop along and schmooze.

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 4 April 2005 14:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

my guess: Bar 38

― Sven Basted (blueski), Monday, 4 April 2005 14:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

I know the answer, but I'm not telling in case it's a secret.

But yes.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's not really an open event, Koogy. In fact, it's now sounding very official, very ungetoutableof and very forgetleavingatseven. My open distaste for this kind of thing has probably put the kibosh on any senior managerial aspirations I may have had. Everyone else is like, "Free drinks! How can you not love that?!"

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

> It's not really an open event

then i might pop along and pull faces through the window...

football will almost certainly be on the projector in The Salutation about 5 minutes down King Street if you do manage to escape. and if history is anything to go by i will be (held captive) there for the first half. (brummy houseguest, food etc)

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

You will probably enjoy it, Mike. I found I had a natural flair for it when I had to sit next to the head of Baby Einstein and the head of some crane company, sorry, platform company. And I'm much more of a miserable cunt than you are.

Plus the entire Girls' Dept will get tiddly!

I would vote for you to be senior management as long as you still get your tea round in.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

See the comments by Phil Neal in the Observer Sport Monthly in their retrospective on Heysel?

"Phil Neal
Then: Liverpool captain, 34
Now: Merseyside Radio commentator

PN: I'd rather forget that night. It was an ordeal. But,
Jamie, why should I help you out? I'm helping you pay your
mortgage [by talking to you about Heysel]. When people ask me
for my view, they usually have to pay for it. You're asking
for my help for nothing. To pay your mortgage, Jamie. I mean,
what do you want from me?

OSM: I just thought that as the captain of Liverpool football
club on that night at Heysel it would be good to hear your
view?

PN: Yes but what do you want from me? If I talk to you for a
few minutes, then I'm helping you pay your mortgage and what
am I getting in return? Do you know what I mean?

OSM: Well, I have been to Italy and talked with some of the
families of the victims and they say that the trophy should
be given back by Juventus to commemorate what happened.

PN: About Juventus? Why are you asking me? Why are you asking
someone on the Liverpool side? Juventus made amends very
soon. Ask them ... Jamie I'm helping you pay your mortgage.
People who want my views pay.

OSM: I'm sorry, but everyone else I have spoken to has ...

PN: Great. So you've spoken to people, you've got your views.
You've got your Liverpool view, but if you want mine for free, well people pay for them.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 06:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

I read that on sunday, the man is crazy.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 06:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

MAGNIFICENT!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

I can't see the picture, Jerry, but I can only infer from your comment that it's Grobbelaar putting through his own goal in the 1984 Charity Shield.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

Can you see this one, Michael?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mmm, tasty! It's practically all I eat these days.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 10 April 2005 16:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

Can i coin the term Vaughnaldo or is it too late already?

― A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Sunday, 10 April 2005 18:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

I enjoyed the highlights of Everton's game last night.

I did not know our friend with the dreadlocks had played for Atletico Madrid.

I did not know our friend without the dreadlocks was a product of FC Barcelona.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

And now Gerrard is out of the Juventus game. :/

PESSIMISM OF THE INTELLECT, POPTIMISM OF THE WILL.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

But this is how Jellybean likes it - backs to the wall, superhuman effort required, etc. It's the run-of-the-mill Saturday 3pm'ers vs mediocrity that he/they can't hack.

The notion that Vaughan is the new Rooney is laughable but he may be the new...Owen. Much more keen on Arteta being Gravesen without the menaces. Stubbs possibly out for the season - so it's the earthy Weir and the mercurial Yobo in a Venusian central defence. It's so crazy it could work. Four points is nothing, mind.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 11 April 2005 20:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

Does anyone fancy watching LFC v Juve in town tomorrow night? Possibly upstairs at the Sun on Long Acre? http://www.fancyapint.com/main_site/thepubs/pub677.htm

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

(I think Rafa has misplaced my mobile number, btw, and has had to gamble on taking Cissé with him.)

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm afraid I shall be on dandling duty.

Having watched Comedy Connections last night, I'm worried Ronnie Corbett might come up on the dumb waiter in The Sun.

Besides, you only want to go there so you can kick that Chelsea bloke's head in.

The person who should really go is CABBAGE.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

i may well do JtN, also we can discuss THE PROJECT

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

SWEET.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

Chris is not feeling optimistic, so may prefer to watch at home, but I will probably still be in town and might pop in.

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

Hooray! Even though I won't be there.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

1978
Wales win the Grand Slam in Rugby
The Pope Dies
Liverpool lose in the League Cup final to the eventual League Champions that year (Forest)
Gary Player wins his ninth major by winning the US Masters
Liverpool win the European Cup

2005
Wales win the Grand Slam in Rugby
The Pope Dies
Liverpool lose in the League Cup final to the eventual League Champions that year (Chelsea)
Tiger Woods wins his ninth major by winning the US Masters
Champions League ????

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 17:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

Dave B is

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 17:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

I might be up for this, but I may well feel too depressed and go home instead - I've been in lousy shape recently. I'll try to post tomorrow to let you know, not that it much matters of course.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

good work boyler, I may well be in attendance, it's a shame pj won't be there though

― chris/porkpie/cabbage, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

I can't claim credit. It was from another msgboard.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Where they've added:

Prince Charles got married
Ken and Deirdre got married
A new Doctor Who was appointed
Norwich and Crystal Palace were relegated from D1
Liverpool won the European Cup

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

That was 1981.

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

1983:

A general election.
Steve Winwood's "Valerie" had been a hit only a year earlier.
A man from Bolton is very popular (Tony Knowles).
Scott Walker has reputedly finished a new LP.
Liverpool go out of the European Cup in the quarterfinals.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

1983:

Brighton relegated
Tories win election

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yes, and Liverpool aren't playing Widzew Lodz. OR ARE THEY?

(JtN: I may text you later if I'm up for watching this in town - depends how late I work...)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

As someone in our office has said, "The Pope must've been shitting himself watching the Six Nations."

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think I will be along tonight - what time will people get there? I'm thinking 6.30-7.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I will try and get there earlyish myself to grab a table - probably some time around 6ish.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm really nervous about tonight - not just the game (though obviously going to the Delle Alpi without Gerrard is worrisome enough) but in light of apparent threats by Juve fans and last night's trouble in Milan. There's going to be trouble. I'm almost sure of it.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

my useless prediction? 3-1 to Juve but I really hope Liverpool win

― $V£N! (blueski), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

If trouble kicks off and it's still 0-0, will LFC get handed the tie, like Milan did last night?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

No, I expect Everton will just get banned from Europe. (I'm joking! I'm only pretending to play the Bitter Blue!)

The usual thing if a team or its fans muck about to the extent that a game can't be played to its conclusion is to award the match by the score of 3-0 to the innocent party. I expect this to be the outcome of the Inter-AC debacle. I dunno what would happen if a side aiming to recover a 1-5 first leg deficit went 2-0 up with 20min left and then the opposition all trooped off the pitch in some spurious protest.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

they want their bloody heads banging together.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

With full Optimism of the Will, I am going to predict a 1-1... with IGOR scoring a header.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm worried about non-football aspects of this too. I don't really fancy Liverpool's chances too much - haven't Juve had four 1-0 home wins in this competition this season already? Another seems reasonably probable, I think.

One of my colleagues here, who glories in the name of M@x 0rlando, is Italian and a Juve supporter. I think I'll resist asking him to join me.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

I hate to think what the Ultras might do if Liverpool score (not that they need an on-field trigger). Best for all* concerned if Juventus quietly and efficiently win 2-0 in a game with no bookings.

(* - in a loose sense)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 12:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think they should have a Charlie Rich match.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 12:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

JtN I trust all this palaver means you'd prefer a new title for THE PROJECT (not that I was keen on using that title for it anyway).

― $V£N! (blueski), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 12:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

PJ, they should try to decide who is the most beautiful girl in the world?

(actually I was listening to Behind Closed Doors just a couple of hours ago, as it happens)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 13:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

realness

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

Congrats to Liverpool. Hope you beat Chelsea.

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

Bollocks

― L'il Michael Owen (daveb), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think that was the most nervous three minutes of my entire life. Including the time I lost my virginity.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

at least there you managed to get in the box...

― $V£N! (blueski), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mixed feelings. It's nice that such an arrogant bunch of ultimately rather ineffectual footballers have been dumped out of the competition (along with their untrammelled thug-fan element).

The Liverpool run must be stopped but I find it difficult to imagine one elite Premiership side sticking it on another for a fourth (or perhaps fifth) time in one campaign* (OK, LFC beat EFC four times in 86-87, if you count the "Super" Cup) even if there are 31pts between them in the table. No, I fear a similar scenario to last season when Arsenal beat Chelsea three times in domestic competition (and always by the odd goal) before coming unstuck in the Euro two-legger.

(* - tho' 0-0 Stamford and 1-1 Anfield would do it).

Still, Jellybean now has more midweek fixtures at the business end of the season to spread his hobbling squad around. Got to be worth some dropped league points.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

fantastic result, but an excruciating 90 minutes. I was shaking and my hands were tingling at the end.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

It'll be a 2-legged league match, not a CL semi. Though ITV will have a lot more than a semi at this (DYS!). I can see Liverpool doing this though they'll need all their players. Who's at home first?

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Who? Igor Biscan?

PS - you saw in Biscan and Alonso why Liverpool fans (at least the ones I've spoken to) really don't fear the loss of Gerrard. They rather not, but it's not the end of the world, and after Houllier's attempts to build a team around one man, they aren't so keen to repeat it.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am kinda worried that LFC will now knock out Chelsea and lose in the final, like some horrific reverse Arsenal 2004. But still! Juventus!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'd love it if they beat them. Love it.

(they=Liv)

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 14 April 2005 07:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mixed feelings. It's nice that such an arrogant bunch of ultimately rather ineffectual footballers have been dumped out of the competition

Um, they won, didn't they?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 14 April 2005 07:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

You know I was referring to Juve, cheeky. (On this occasion.)

1965:
There was a five in the year.
Jonathan King was in the news.
Some other stuff happened, eerily prescient of this year. (Spooky).
Liverpool lost in the European Cup semifinals.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool to beat PSV 3-2 in the final please...

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well done Liverpool - fantastic performance over 2 legs. I'm sorry that you'll be going no further - a CFC v LFC final would have been good.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

it was nice to see cisse get a run out.

well done pool. can you imagine if they won the champions league? i still find it unlikely, but they've proven me wrong at every turn.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think it was on the CL thread where we discussed what would happen if Liverpool won the CL and finished 5th or worse (for anyone who doesn't know, and there can't be many).

Basically, the FA can choose to nominate them as the fourth English representative in the 05-06 CL ahead of whoever does actually finish 4th in the Prem. And they will. There's no 5th CL place for England (or anyone) just cos someone outside the top four wins the damn thing.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well done Liverpool. Shame they've got Chelsea next. Started off reasonably well-disposed towards Chelsea but can't forgive them for beating Barca, who were sooo beautiful to watch, or for all the Mourinho antics during and since. Hope Liverpool beat them but can't see it.

If Liverpool do win it (highly unlikely) I'd feel very sorry for Everton if they finish 4th don't get into the CL next season. But it'd be even more scandalous if the FA didn't nominate the holders.

― frankiemachine, Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

Play up, Liverpool!

Martin, I've never heard it, that song.

!!!

I told you, I think, that Liverpool would be this year's Valencia.

I didn't really believe it though.

I would love Jellybean to get one over Miseryguts Mourinho, the Portuguese Plonker of Old Porto Town.

I had a Didier Drogba dream. Sounds like a song title for the Foxgloves.

I'm worried about your circulation, Chris.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

god that was nervy, I too was shaking at the end, could hardly watch. it's all really encouraging, whatever happens in the end. however it does really hammer home the necessity of getting into the Champions League again. Rafa knows what he's doing in Europe!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

Morientes and Owen spearheading next season's attack?

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

I agree with Dr C.

Congratulations to Liverpool, and their supporters.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

I enjoyed watching the game with some proper Liverpool fans.

If Liverpool win the CL, they go in next season and someone else finishing 4th doesn't - the FA announced this a while ago. This also applies to the UEFA, so in both it is possible that teams could get their presumed place taken away from them to give to local rivals!

Chelsea to win in the semi, I think, and meet Milan in the final. Could be a classic. PSV seem less appealing.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

Lyon was robbed! God, another year, another disappointing 1/4 final exit...

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

Congratulations also to those who have posted fine material to this thread - this, for instance:

I can't see the picture, Jerry, but I can only infer from your comment that it's Grobbelaar putting through his own goal in the 1984 Charity Shield.
-- Michael Jones (tourajsig...), April 6th, 2005.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

To celebrate this glorious victory I am going up to Merseyside this weekend to plan a route for The Boyler's nekkid lap of honour.

(Mike are you still Wirraling this w/e aussi?)

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

Wow - it sounds like a night at the Cavern will be called for.

― the dreamfox, Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

either across stanley park from goodison to anfield or along bold st and dale street and twice round the pierhead.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

lord street not dale.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Milan will whup yo ass. I hope. But really don't. Oh dear. I actually really want them to win it.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 14 April 2005 21:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

Jerry - YES! We will be Wallaseying from this evening until Monday morning (about to strap Ava in the Micra right now). Text me!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 15 April 2005 06:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I have looked up Wallasey in the Gazetteer, I have.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 15 April 2005 07:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't have thought that the Steadibot would have had to strap Ava to a Mic to record her - there must be easier ways than that.

― Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 15 April 2005 10:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well done, Tottenham.

― the bellefox, Monday, 18 April 2005 11:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

1-2 at Portsmouth: well done, Liverpool.

1-0 vs Manchester United: well done, Everton.

It's up for grabs, now.

1-1 vs WBA: that's no good, Tottenham.

I think that it will go

1 Chelsea

2 Arsenal

3 Manchester United

4 Everton

5 Liverpool

6 Bolton Wanderers

7 Middlesbrough

8 Tottenham Hotspur

- if we are lucky.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 21 April 2005 10:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

I just played with the BBC's Premiership Predictor and got the above but with 7th and 8th reversed. I then fiddled it so that Southampton (to keep half the Eng Dept happy) and WBA (to keep Adrian Chiles happy) both survived at the expense of Pompey.

A wonderful, wonderful thing to finally beat ManYoo - but there's still nothing in it. Our game-in-hand is at Highbury on May 11th; even if Wenger fields a team of teenagers (with perhaps 2nd place clinched and mindful of the Cup final) we're likely to get nothing - their second string knocked us out of the Carling Cup in the autumn.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 21 April 2005 10:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

I desperately want Everton to finish 4th. I enjoyed the highlights last night. Dunc's goal was a thing of beauty. How many has he got this season? 5 or 6? They said Cahill was top scorer! I like the look of Arteta - he looks creative. Also the back 4 were immense. I think Sven should be looking at Hibbert. He looks better than Glen 'oh no I'm going to have to make a tackle' Johnson, who is having a nightmare for us since Ferrera has been out.

I think Spurs will finish above Boro.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 21 April 2005 10:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

I agree with the pinefox prediction, although it really depends on Boro's injury problems.

Meanwhile, Norwich might even stay up.

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 21 April 2005 10:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

Premiership Referee Philip Dowd

Scouse Cult Leader (and Everton fan) Simon From Brookside

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ah, Dr C - you can afford to be generous when you're 11 pts clear, eh? ;)

Big Dunc's got six this season if you include the Carling Cup and the scrambled winner vs Norwich in February which some sources credited to a confused Canary. Bless 'im (though he's still the biggest strain on our wage budget/always likeliest to be sent off/injury-prone/etc/etc). I groan whenever he's introduced (cos it always smacks of desperation) but it generally works. He's started the last two and has been magnificent (27 of his 32 appearances have been as sub). Cahill's got ten goals. Arteta strikes a better dead ball than Gravesen and is his equal in most other departments (save for hairstyle), so we have to make that move permanent. That such a makeshift defence kept out Wayne, Chrissie & co is extraordinary.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

Actually, the Roonster looked good last night to me - determined to get a 25-yarder in the onion bag, by bell hooks or by Garth Crooks. Even though it didn't quite happen.

If Ferguson (D) keeps playing like this, maybe you won't have to buy Robbie Keane from an uncaring Jol for £500,000?

― the dreamfox, Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ah, no, we'd still like RK please, ta. (Sorry, PF - I owe you an email on, or near, this subject but things have been a bit hectic at home). You can have Leon Osman, seeing as we are (allegedly) intent on making him the lowest-paid senior squad player in the Premiership and he's not best pleased. Actually, no, you can't have him either.

I am currently listening to an early demo of Lush's "Sunbathing" on Resonance FM! If only you were here. Or there.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

I liked a goal on the telly and it was by Norwich.

The Nun's hopes of Benedictine intervention were well and truly dashed. His mum will have to light more candles.

Do we know yet what the 'Scottish banter' between Moyesey and Fergie consisted of?

Neville missed his target. He would be no good on a coconut shy.

I am currently listening to an early demo of Lush's "Sunbathing" on Resonance FM! If only you were here. Or there.

Are you, be Gad? Do you want a couple of Cookie96 mp3s?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

**, Dr C - you can afford to be generous when you're 11 pts clear, eh? ;)**

I did say early doors this season, when all the Rooney fuss was happening, that I wanted Everton to do well. It's not an anti-Liverpool or anti- Man U thing, I've always liked Everton a bit. They're kind of *70's* in my mind, it feels like the likes of Roger Kenyon and Alan Whittle might still pop up again. Or at least *early 80's* - standing on the Shed with my best mate Andy watching Graeme Sharp batter Colin Pates into submission seems like yesterday. I never minded too much losing to you lot. I like the Z-Cars thing too. At least they still play 'The Liquidator' at the Bridge, the day they get rid of that I'll burn down the Chelsea Village Hotel.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Bless you, Doctor.

(They're playing "Deluxe" now! PJM: Oui!)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

Despite very much liking a few fans of Merseyside teams around here, I'm hoping Bolton do it - I have colossal admiration for what Sam has achieved there with bugger all in the way of transfer funds, and a Champions' League place would be fantastic reward. I guess a UEFA place is still a real mark of success, and that looks highly likely.

If Bolton can't overhaul both, I don't know who I would prefer to get it. I guess maybe JtN and Cabbage outnumber Mike, so I might be more pleased to see the two happy. (I have a feeling I am forgetting someone who supports one of the two teams.)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

I want Everton to get it just because they've been there all season and it would seem so cruel to have it yoinked away at the death, as much as I'd love to hear Sam Allardyce yell 'YOINK!'

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

i predicted everton to finish above liverpool this season in that pre-season predictions thread!

(i think it was the only one that's coming true, though :( i expected norwich to fare better although they're not totally out just yet)

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

An *early demo* of a Lush B-side that already sounds a bit like a (marvellous) demo? What an unlikely thing to hear on the radio.

This is a thread derailment. I will stop talking about it now.

The Norwich goal was indeed tree-mendous. And their winner, in a very unreal sense, even more so.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 21 April 2005 12:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

Do we know yet what the 'Scottish banter' between Moyesey and Fergie consisted of?

It looked like Fergie said something about "...load o' fuckin' shite..." and Moyes said something like "Fuck off ya prick", but I'm no lip reader so I couldn't be certain. Ooh the Glasgae banter.

On the subject of Arteta: no doubt he's a skilled player, good control, can pick a pass, might score the odd free kick - but in his time in Glasgow he showed he could be bullied and kicked out of games. That said he seemed to put himself about a bit last night so maybe he's toughened up a bit.

I'd rather Everton or Bolton got 4th spot as that would be a significant achievement. For Liverpool it's where they should finish in a poor season, given the money they've spent.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 21 April 2005 12:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I also enjoyed Alan Hansen's considered opinion of Didier Drogba.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 21 April 2005 14:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

For Liverpool it's where they should finish in a poor season, given the money they've spent.

But think of the injuries!

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 21 April 2005 14:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

Neville missed his target. He would be no good on a coconut shy.

Actually, Neville's head as a target in a coconut shy is a very pleasing idea.

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

has anyone done the Premiership predictor on the BBC Sport website? i get Bolton to take 4th place at the Reebok, last day of the season. devastating. as long as it's not Liverpool, i suppose.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

bah, bet they haven't got a conference predictor, anyway it would BREAK under the complexity...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

I did it. Villa did ever so well, considering.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 22 April 2005 09:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

i also got Man City to finished 8th, which makes me glad i'm not a betting man anymore.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Friday, 22 April 2005 10:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

I ended up with Everton holding 4th by 4 points from Liverpool, but there were lots of predictions I didn't much believe in, so who knows? I had the three promoted sides going down.

I note the BBC has 5th and 6th going into the UEFA. Who are the third team going into the UEFA Cup? I believe you don't get a place for losing League Cup finalist, and the two FA Cup finalists are both heading for the CL. Isn't 7th worth a place this year?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 22 April 2005 11:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, it's a big, big, big, big night tonight for Liverpool and Everton fans. I wonder how they are coping with the build-up, la.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 13:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am too nervous to watch it, so I will be spending the evening listening to people discussing postpunk instead.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 13:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

drat, can't get to watch it anywhere as its on sky. will just have to wait for second leg on itv.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 14:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

I did wonder how you'd resolve your little dilemma, Jerry. Not even taking a little radio in there?

7th = UEFA Cup this season, yes. Which is why Spurs' defeat at Arsenal meant Everton were guaranteed some flavour of Euro footy in 05-06.

I think all this tittle-tattle in the papers about the FA asking for a 5th CL place is nonsense and makes us Blues look like a bunch of whining jessies. OF COURSE, the holders should defend their trophy. Good luck to 'em. I don't give a stuff about the CL anyway*, I just want to finish above the Redshite. 4-0 home win tonight would be nice though.

(* - OK, maybe I do)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 14:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sorry Liverpool fans. I put £10 on liverpool to win with a return of £55.

I'm not known for my good fortune.

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 14:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Go, Nipper, Go! Give 'em hell! Goddam limeys.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

At the risk of sounding cruel, the chances of Liverpool beating Chelsea then beating what looks likely to be AC Milan seem slim at best. Chris Kirkland, Hamann, and Josemi are out, Cisse and Kewell aren't going to be able to play for 90 minutes, and Baros is still a question. Liverpool should be playing for a hard won draw tonight imho.

Asking for 5 English places is not only unfair but premature and why would any real self-respecting supporter want their club to get into a competition by any other means than the earning it the regular way?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

Any country having more than ONE place in the "Champions" League isn't *fair*, Michael - the country who wins the thing getting an extra place seems much fairer than arbitrarily giving the big moneyed countries more/better places than the minnows.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

My dad has already headed off to the match - as he's actually there, my loyalties will be marginally in Chelsea's favour, probably. This is also because I don't think Liverpool will beat AC Milan, but I think Chelsea might.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

It was typical of England to want an extra place, and typical that the FA used it as a way of trying to wriggle out of making a ruling they should have made years ago.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

the country who wins the thing getting an extra place seems much fairer than arbitrarily giving the big moneyed countries more/better places than the minnows.

So Man U's victory over Bayern gave England 4 places. How many places do Spain and Italy have?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

Also, Mark, the big moneyed countries are far more likely to win so, while they're actually required to win the whole shebang to collect their extra place, it's still just a window dressing in a way.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't see why an extra place for one year to the country that provides the winner is some kind of travesty? Maybe it's a travesty for the Kyrgyzstani champions who get shuffled down to the UEFA cup or something.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

I obviously don't understand how this works. It was my understanding that Man U's 1999 CL victory gave England its 4 place. Is that not the case?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Funnily enough, although we've been over this time and time again, I've just looked again at the UEFA Coefficients table* and oddly, there does seem to be provision for the holders entering separately (and therefore in addition to) their national association's allocation. 16 clubs enter the league phase directly (joined by another 16 who make it out of the qualifying), and the makeup of the 16 appears to be:

two each from Spain, England, Italy, Germany, France, Portugal
one each from Greece, Holland, Czech Rep
the previous year's champions

So, WTF?

(Incidentally, top three in table get seven Euro places [4 CL, 3 UEFA], next three get six [3 CL, 3 UEFA], next two also get six [2 CL, 4 UEFA] and then it rather arbitrarily drops to four, split evenly between comps [9th thru 15th] or just with one CL place [16th thru 21st]...)

(* - it's here: http://www.geocities.com/jfaugeras/UC200304.html
Sorry, brain is fried today, can't do blue writing).

M White: ManYoo's win probably indirectly gave England its fourth spot because it pushed Eng up the coeff table.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

Thank you, Michael. I will have to study that as, when I perused the page, my brane broke.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 16:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ok, forget that - UEFA rules state explicitly that no more than 4 clubs from one nation can compete in the CL. Which leads to:

If the defending cup holder already qualified directly for the group stage of the Champions League, the champion of the 10th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the group stage, the champion of the 16th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 3rd qualifying round, and the champions of the 26th and 27th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 2nd qualifying round. Similar changes are made if the cup holder already qualified directly for one of the qualification rounds, or if the cup holder did not qualify directly but is from one of the top three ranked countries.

It's kinda interestin' cos it means L'pool and Chelsea would make it into the group stage directly and Arsenal & ManYoo's battle for 2nd spot in the Premiership would be meaningless - they'd both go into r3 of the qualies.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 16:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

One of the all-time great bits of commentary when he was explaining how much Jamie Carragher loves Liverpool - "If you cut him, he'd BLEED red!"

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

I absolutely hat ethat commentator, almost as much as I hate Andy "no, not biased at all" Gray.

A decent performance, I'm sure Chelsea fans will be here soon, beingquite cocky saying things like "oh yes, we'll do them away, no problem" all with that authority that a decent bit of success after years in the doldrums gives, we've been hearing it all season.

Saves made by Dudek - 0

made by Cech - 2 (including one of the best I've seen in a long time)

all the posession in the world doesn't necessarily give you a goal.

Jamie Carragher = Colossus

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

All true - Andy Gray was pretty overt in how grudging he was whenever praising Liverpool. I still fancy Chelsea - you need to win, they need to win or draw. I still think they're favourites, but this was a good Liverpool performance, and the odds have tilted some in your direction.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

Part of me thinks Chelsea will sneak through on away goals, but then I thought they'd win 2-0 tonight. If Liverpool can play like they did for the first 20 minutes against Juventus at Anfield they'll have them.

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

jamie, are you actually living in Walthamstow now?

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

No, but we've put an offer in on a flat in Bemsted Road (near Lloyd Park).

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

ha ha, about 5 minutes (at the most) walk from us

upstairs or downstairs?

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

Upstairs. Hopefully it'll all go through by the end of June.

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

excellent stuff, it'll be similar to ours (there are small variants in the Warners) pint in the summer?

ahem, back to footie everyone.....

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

i reckon liverpool will do it.

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

Even without Xabi next game?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

xpost - yeah.

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

Dudek running in the wrong direction to the ball and having to backtrack to stop it running into his own net was hilarious. I love it when he drops such utter clangers when there is no one remotely dangerous anywhere near the area.

Liverpool can nick this, I reckon. But its unlikely considering they only need to concede one against an all-guns-blazing Chelsea to go out.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

Chelsea are likely to have Duff available on 5/3 too.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool could (and perhaps should) have won last night - probably as good a performance as away vs Juve. Chelsea seemed bereft of ideas and, even with another half hour vs Bolton on Saturday, I doubt Robben will be any sharper by next Tuesday. Liverpool would do well to play all their matches midweek.

The lack of an away goal may be crucial but then I thought that in 2001 when LFC held Barcelona goallessly; they kept them out at Anfield too and McAllister stuck home a penalty to take them into the final.

I have four specific results in mind over the next nine days that would enable me to finally crack open that sparkling stuff in the fridge (which should really have been drunk on Feb 14). Only one of them is an Everton win.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 28 April 2005 08:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

Cech's save was indeed one of the best I've seen, in a few years maybe, at least since that David Seaman one against Fulham (I think) in the FA Cup. Baros really connected with that ball well.

Still feel the lack of away goal might make it too much of a mountain to climb. Is Duff back for the next leg? I can only imagine the horror....

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 28 April 2005 08:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure you can point the finger of giggles at Dudek for that crazy spinning ball. It was a bit of a shit-arse boring game, patternless for much of the match with some of the best midfielders in the world giving the ball away in a mongy fashion (Gerrard, Lampard, Alonso, Makelele all made crazy crap passes).

Harry Kewell and Luis Garcia look identical.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

it really does seem set up for Liverpool to finish it off at Anfield. it's a bit like Arsenal vs Chelsea last year - the contrariness of football is casting its long shadow over the fixture.

however, if Milan play Liverpool in the final, it will be such a mauling that the ref will probably have to stop the match. so, despite other prejudices, i hope i am wrong and Chelsea win it.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

however, if Milan play Liverpool in the final, it will be such a mauling that the ref will probably have to stop the match

Did you see the ease with which PSV pulled apart the Milan defence on Tuesday? 15 shots on goal in the second half - with better finishing Milan would be out by now. 2-0 was a travesty. Liverpool's campaign has been all about saying "You're not all that" to everyone they've played. I expected them to leak goals to Leverkusen, Juve and again last night. Their stubborn refusal to carry their frequently laughable Premiership form into Europe is an absolute agony to me. Vice versa for a few others on this thread, I guess.

1-0 on Tuesday and 1-0 in Istanbul. I can already taste the sulphur.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Can someone have a word with the Liverpool players about short corners and offsides? The first time made me laugh, but the second made me weep like an Italian woman returning home to find her loving son dead on the porch, killed by bees.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

last night's game was a dreary, ugly spectacle for a neutral such as myself.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

but props to liverpool, i guess. i think chelsea will get either a 1-0 win or 1-1 draw in the 2nd leg, though.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

So why the absolutely appalling league form and then such solid displays in Europe?

It's infuriating. I suppose the squad is depleted but still.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

Can someone have a word with the Liverpool players about short corners and offsides?

Chelsea had men on the posts for both corners, playing the entire field onside, the linesman got it wrong.
Taking short corners when you can ping a dead ball in as well as Gerrard or Riise is baffling all the same.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

They stepped up as soon as the short corner happened. It was about the only thing the referee's bitch got right.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

i want to see a 0-0 second leg and then penalties.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Did you see the ease with which PSV pulled apart the Milan defence on Tuesday?

Milan just aren't letting goals in in the Champs League. Inter and Man U got nowhere near them - Utd didn't get a shot on target in either leg. admittedly, PSV had chances, but they still didn't score any of them, and the first leg of the semis against a third tier team like PSV is a totally different proposition to a final against Liverpool.

if they face Milan in the final, a one-off game, the Liverpool players end up will need counselling for years afterwards.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Thursday, 28 April 2005 12:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

confession: there was an amount of hyperbole in that last statement.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Thursday, 28 April 2005 12:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

I was so bored with the game last night, I muted the TV and span some Miles Davis. Man, that cat can blow.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 28 April 2005 12:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

Curious.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 29 April 2005 07:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Bobfox, did you realise that 'Johnny Todd' (track 6 on disc 2 of 'A Tree With Roots' is the Z-Cars/Everton song?)

― Mooro (Mooro), Saturday, 30 April 2005 22:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

I was browsing through "The Swarming Streets, (Twentieth-Century Literary Representations of London)", ed. Lawrence Phillips, last night & in the chapter entitled "Shades of the Eighties: The Colour Of Memory" by one J0e Br00ker I found:

"It never announces the precise dates of its action, but various circumstantial details let us pin it at about 1987. In fact I once lent it to a friend, an Everton fan, who agreed that the implied status of Everton in the Football League at one point in the narrative confirmed this with some precision."

Everton 1-0 Liverpool

― Mooro (Mooro), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 13:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mooro - no, I have not noticed that, on the CD!

Congratulations to Liverpool FC and their supporters on a tremendous achievement.

― the bobfox, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 13:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

..and (Rafael) Beneathus they stayed.

The first time since 1965 we've finished ahead of the Kopites without having to actually win the league - so this, this is for all those running-out-of-fizz seasons when we were both short of the title pace but the bastards hauled us in anyway. 1974-75, when we lost at home to Carlisle United on the run-in; 1977-78, when we outscored everyone else in the top-flight but stuttered in the spring and had you'll-be-rubbish-without-Keegan shoved back in our face by a blond Glaswegian with an incessantly-obstructive backside; 1992-93, when Souness's lot were dreadful but we got a hint of what life in the newfangled Premiership would be like by being, ultimately, slightly worse; 2002-03: four defeats in the last five, including that shocker of an Easter Saturday Goodison derby, and all the Kroxteth Kid's work was undone.

I nearly opened the Lanson in the fridge but I'll save that for Istanbul.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 8 May 2005 18:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

(I expect this thread to reach the 1000-mark around the time we lose on away goals to Ham-Kam of Norway in the CL qualifier either side of a 1-4 league reverse at the JJB.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 8 May 2005 18:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

I nearly opened the Lanson in the fridge but I'll save that for Istanbul.

You're going, are you? ;)

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Sunday, 8 May 2005 18:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

I have been using my 'earbuds' this morning. I like them, but I still think the treble is a bit much for me. Maybe people should stop using cymbals, or maybe I should get a minidisc player with a treble control, now that they can't give the bloody things away for... toffee.

Congratulations to Everton FC and all their supporter on a tremendous achievement

Are you 'going to Istanbul'? Or are you staying here? (That is in code.)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 9 May 2005 08:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

I probably am 'going to Istanbul' but it rather depends on some unanswered queries I have with 'the AC Milan manager'.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 9 May 2005 08:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh, right. Good job it's not Jellybean, eh?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 9 May 2005 08:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

I wanted to do what PJ Miller did, until I saw that he had done it. I still think I will try to do it, though, bigger than what he did.

CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERTON FC AND ALL THEIR SUPPORTERS ON A TREMENDOUS ACHIEVEMENT.

Also, my one has a plural, in it, though perhaps his singular supporter was deliberate.

Premiership team of the season?

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

It was on purpose, yes. My idea of a little joke.

I'm going to vote for whoever stays up as Premiership team of the season, unless it's grotty old Crystal Palace.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 15:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

I joshed with the ManYoo-supporting freelancer today - "See you in the third qualifying round!"* He seemed disbelieving - "Surely we enter at a more advanced stage than...than you?"

It reminded me of that possibly apocryphal tale regarding Laurence of Felt, aghast at being stranded in the Glastonbury mud - "But I thought there'd be little bungalows for the pop stars."

(* - I still won't really believe this until the draw is made in the summer and we're in it; there's still this lurking fear that it'll somehow be taken away from us again).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 18:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's called 'the tricky two-legged tie against unheralded eastern European opposition'

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 21:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

I remember when the pinefox couldn't do italics and now he's mastered bold type! Everton qualify for the Champions League and the pinefox has got to grips with modern technology. The world has gone totally mad...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 22:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

EVERTON are revelling in the confirmation of a highest ever Premiership finish and entry to the qualifying round of next season's Champions League. It's the first time the Toffees have matched their last top four season of 1987/88, which itself came twelve months after Howard Kendall's side won the title.

The Merseysiders have equalled their highest ever points tally in a Premiership season, and have two games to add to the 61 points already bagged. But David Moyes' boys have lost their last three in a row on the road.

The Goodison Park club have already lost twice to the Gunners this season - adding a 3-1 fourth round Carling Cup defeat at Highbury to the home Premiership loss, making a disappointing aggregate over the two games of 2-7. Everton's only Premiership victory at Highbury and only maximum in 17 visits to the famous north London venue was 1-2 on 20 January 1996.

Viewing figures for Dr Who are at their highest level since 1977, when Everton lost the League Cup to Aston Villa in a replay, shortly before Ken McNaught switched allegiances to the claret and blue second city high-flyers.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 07:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

ok, so it was a dream, it's really some time in December and there's still 20 odd games to play, right?

sweet Jesus

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 19:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm feeling for Mike!

A lot of record-breaking stats being clocked up at his team's expense :(

― Mooro (Mooro), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 19:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

FUCK FUCK FUCK I wish I'd taken Pistone and Weir out of my Fantasy League Team.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 19:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

-14pts!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 20:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Um... you don't have Weir, and Pistone scored -1.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 20:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ha! I only just checked the score - after a season of sweating every minute of every game I took the night off. Just shows what happens when they haven't got me willing them on. Good job goal difference had no part to play in proceedings.

That's 2-14 for the season vs Arsenal. S'about right.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 20:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Looking on the bright side, if there is one - perhaps if one uses those lenses Kubrick had made for Barry Lyndon - EFC's previous heaviest defeat was 4-10 vs Nicholson's peerless Spurs in 58-59. Within a couple of seasons Everton were starting to close on Tottenham and by 62-63 we'd surpassed them. I mean, it looks like an unbridgable gulf in class and, y'know, it is but 4-5 years down the line...

If only Liverpool had been the opposition at Highbury tonight, bringing their Turf Moor or St Mary's form with them (which was approx the level of Everton's ineptitude) - Bolton would now be 5th.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 20:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Jamie - different league, sadly. How did Pistone only get -1? And how do I still not understand the rules of this game after two seasons?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 21:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

I had forgotten about this match. What a poor result for Everton.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 12 May 2005 09:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

and a poor result for the premiership, if a champions league representative can get beat 7-0 by a team thats already thrashed them this season

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 12 May 2005 09:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

to be fair, i think arsenal's thrashings of everton had more to do with *timing* than a gulf in quality (there *is* a gulf in quality, but it was made luck bigger because arsenal played everton at a time when they were in form, and everton were either low on confidence and resigned to a pummelling, or hungover from success).

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh for god's sake Liverpool played Arsenal on SUNDAY!

And didn't lose 7-0.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

i hope this bodes well for arsenal next year

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

ronan, are you arguing that the liverpool v everton debate should hinge on who performed better against arsenal?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

as in, not just these 2 games, but the run of form arsenal have been in

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

No, just arguing that the hypothetical situation of Liverpool losing 7-0 last night to Arsenal is a bit ridiculous given Liverpool just played Arsenal 3 days ago!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's telling though - there's an implicit belief that Liverpool could NEVER lose 7-0, to anyone. Does anyone NOT feel that there is some sort of 'truth' to that?

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

In fact when was the last time Liverpool lost by three goals? In any competition. Are Arsenal the first team to score 3 against them this season?

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't think we should be too hard on Mike for being ridiculous, he's obviously in a state of shock. He has immersed himself in work to ease the pain, otherwise he'd probably be joining in some more.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 12 May 2005 10:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool lost 0:4 to ManU in 2003 (after Sami was daftly sent off in the 4th minute).

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 12 May 2005 11:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

i don't think too much conclusion really can be drawn based on this one result alone.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 12 May 2005 11:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

When Skies Are Grey described the rather tragic attempts at drumming up a singalong amongst the travelling Toffees last night ("You're not champions any more" and "4-0 and you're still not singing"); the match seemed to essentially be a non-contact pre-season kind of affair, and if we don't get stuck in against Arsenal in Rolls-Royce mode, things like this will happen. I've no doubt they could beat us in a multitude of circumstances with just about any permutation of their best 18-20 players, but, prior to this season, our matches have been very close (1-1 and 1-2 [Henry pen] last season; 2-1, 1-2 the season before).

I don't think Ronan read what I said above. Liverpool, playing like they have on occasion this season away from home, would've been thrashed out of sight last night too. Perhaps not by seven, unless we lent you Richard Wright. Clearly the second half on Sunday was one of Liverpool's better away league performances. But, as we now all know, Rafa's Reds only bother turning up when the opposition is of a certain class. Hence the irrefutable truth of the league table.

It's amazing how many people want to talk about the football with me today. I guess it's just like rubbernecking at a car crash; I've done it myself, unable to resist asking the Forest fan at Roche what he thought of the previous Saturday's 1-8 reverse vs ManYoo. "Fuck off" is what he thought of it.

Arsenal v Everton: 11-1.
Man U v Arsenal: 6-2.
Man U v Everton: 0-1.

Funny old game, eh?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 12 May 2005 13:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

(He's being quite perky, considering.)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 12 May 2005 13:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

The League Mangers' League Association have taken sides:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/e/everton/4553807.stm

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 09:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

Moyes deserves the award for being the funniest manager in the league, his comic timing is impeccable

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 09:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah he deserves it. Mourinho was so mouthy.

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 09:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Did anybody else read about former diminutive Everton psycho Mark Ward getting caught in a multi-million pound cocaine bust last week. Blimey!

― Pete W (peterw), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 09:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Moyes for England?

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 10:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

Celtic shurely?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 10:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Then we lost Wayne Rooney to Manchester United,"

hardly 'lost'

― koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 11:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Then we lost James Beattie from Southampton."

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 11:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mark Ward, people!

Shame Hansen didn't interview him last night on that show about ex pros.

'What are yooo doing now Mark?
'Running a multi-million crack cocaine ring in Bootle.'
'Oh.'

― Pete W (peterw), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 12:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

I forgot about that programme. Poor footballers.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 12:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

The end credits were the best part, with Hanson striding enigmatically down the Anfield turf.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 13:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

Good luck to Liverpool FC and both their supporters for a tremendous achievement.

(I think Milan will win 4-0.)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 07:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

They only have two supporters? I thought they were a Big Club? I'll be supporting them vigorously tonight.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ah but spare a thought for the Liverpool fans who had to put up with so many of us (inc. the media) writing off their team against Juve and Chelsea, only to wish them all the best for tonight. I'd be annoyed as hell about that if I was a Red!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

Overall, I think both clubs have reason to be pleased with their repsective seasons.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 26 May 2005 06:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

They did it for Dioufy.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 26 May 2005 07:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

repsective? respective.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 26 May 2005 08:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

Igor has been "released". :(

Meanwhile, in 'just a bit of fun' news: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N149058050609-0855.htm

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 9 June 2005 11:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Grobelaar should sue.

Meanwhile it looks as if they're gonna be allowed to defend the trophy after all, somehow. Anyone unhappy about this can at least console themselves with the inevitability of them crashing out against Benfica in the second round.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 9 June 2005 11:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Could you expand on that, Steve? What's the latest trophy-defending news?

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 9 June 2005 12:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Spoke to my dad about the whole, miserable affair for the first time last night. He felt sorry for the Liverpool fans at halftime - to go all that way, spend all that money - "That stadium's in the desert, y'know - about 30 miles from town. There's nothing there." I loved the fact that it was the paucity of local amenities that piqued his concern for their plight at watching their team get stuffed. "I wanted them to get something out of the second half. But not that." "It's taken the shine off our season, hasn't it, Dad?" "Er...yeah. Yeah, it has really." He sounded so sad. "I couldn't watch the homecoming rubbish on the telly. The [Daily] Post has been full of nothing but for weeks. I'm sick of it."

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 9 June 2005 12:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

What's the latest trophy-defending news?

The decision is made tomorrow apparently but papers seem very optimistic.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 9 June 2005 12:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

You should tell him about your earhole.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Thursday, 9 June 2005 12:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think Liverpool should've been allowed to defend the UEFA Cup in 2001-02 instead of playing in the Champions' League. Houll only wasted that extra cash, didn't he?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 9 June 2005 12:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

Igor has been "released". :(

Source?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 9 June 2005 12:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

This is the day:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4613695.stm

Will UEFA harsh Cabbage's buzz?

I'm looking forward to a Liverpool-Everton final next year, to be played in Wrexham as a special treat.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Friday, 10 June 2005 07:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'd like to see the shine taken off Liverpool's victory by a UEFA Cup place but, really, there is no dimming that shine. It's bloody everywhere, like the Gestapo shoving an anglepoise in your face.

May as well do the sensible thing and stick them in the group stage. Fenerbahce, as we've established, would only be demoted to where they 'should' be according to the coeff table. If it somehow hurts Liverpool financially to make them play three rounds of qualifying instead of some juicy preseason friendlies, then that might be funny. Presumably UEFA have some cunning plan in place for the rearrangement of the Super Cup final in that case. Like cancelling it altogether because who cares about the Super Cup?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 10 June 2005 08:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's official, Liverpool are in:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4613695.stm

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's not fair! The Champions of Europe surely have the right to longer hols and a bit of a lie-in!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh dear. Less money for Everton (and the other English clubs) as a direct result of this. Perhaps the FA should compensate somehow?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool will also get no "country protection" which means if they progress through the qualifying stages they could face Everton or Manchester United - who enter at the third qualifying round.

!!!

are you thinking what I'm thinking?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

Couldn't we call the group stage a round robin instead? That might convince me of its worth.

I am not particularly aware of the Liverpool shine. Does that make me a holocaust denial person?

There is a bloke in my Lenny Henry programme called Everton.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

They'll get some, but it won't be an equal share. It'd be funny if it turned out to be the same amount they would have got from UEFA Cup tv rights, and were having to cancel the money-spinning German and Japanese tours (the latter of which definitely has "let's sell shitrs in the Far East" written all over it) for the privelege.

It'll be interesting to see how many of The Greatest Fans In The World Ever turn out for a tie with NK Široki Brijeg (to pick a random side from this year's first qualifying round).

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Greatest Fans In The World Ever

OI!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

A truly efficient team would combine their tour of the far east with a scouting trip to look for suitable factories to manufacture them. Players could be put into pairs and sent to industrial districts to check out what's on offer. To save arguments, they could stay in their room-sharing pairs.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

Peter Stringbender is watching Chef!

why should Liverpool have been given any TV revenue at all? being in the Champs League is already plenty of reward, especially seeing as they didn't qualify. Everton really could have done without being forced to donate £5m to which they are fully entitled to Liverpool.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

I am watching Chef, yes. I think it is quite good.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/4081094.stm

Hooray for Liverpool, I suppose.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 10 June 2005 13:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

I believe this to be the 1000th post on this thread. Well done, Peter - it couldn't happen to a nicer fella.

There is no prize.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 10 June 2005 14:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

Relive the shine being taken off the Jonseys' season in digital clarity:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00081MWWA/ref=pd_nfy_hp_ts/026-0841495-4651641

I have been recommended this by Amazon. I thought it was only right to pass it on.

I am glad I was thousandth.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Sunday, 12 June 2005 16:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

DVD Description
Featuring every goal from every game this season, highlights from the Carling Cup and extensive review of the Champions league, including footage from the spectacular match which contained every emotion for the watching millions, as AC Milan 's 3 - 0 half time lead was washed away in a tide of red!

I imagine the FA Cup may be glossed over a little though.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 12 June 2005 17:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Featuring every goal from every game this season

I wish I worked in DVD authoring - I could hack it so it played Lee Carsley's goal in a loop behind the unskippable anti-piracy warning at the start.

Maybe this is the one for JtN. Or maybe it's a bit of rush job with faked Alan Parry commentary.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 08:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4088620.stm

"We won the big one but it is important we forget about that and move on and try to do better in the Premiership."

Forget about winning the European Cup and concentrate on finishing 4th instead of 5th in the league?

Steven Gerrard is a twat.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 17:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

Does winning the Champions League not pay more than winning the Premiership? These people!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

I bet Liverpool sell more DVDs than Chelsea.

I think Gerrard's approach is quite sensible, judging by that brief out of context quotation.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 06:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

What an unsatisfactory, depressing, hash of a compromise. If you're going to give Liverpool a spot, bung them in the group stages. Idiots. It'll backfire, mark my words.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 12:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

Backfire for whom and in what sense?

"Backfire" for me obviously means them winning it again in 2006.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 13:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

Stevie G. to leave?

I have mixed feelings about this. The overwhelming one is "What a greedy blighter".

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 4 July 2005 09:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

The timing seems rather perverse; if he'd gone 12 months ago few would have criticised him (his staying saw him elevated to saintly status; an old-fashioned pro with an admirable sense of loyalty to the club which made him) but now?

Meanwhile, Everton release Stubbs (the alternative was probably a gagging order on his speaking to the press) and are once again linked with Bellamy. Thanks but no thanks.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 July 2005 10:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

A bit of honesty, at last.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

Stevie (T) is correct. So is Steady M. The situation is ridiculous. If Gerrard wanted to stay, he could stay. The idea that £100k / week is not enough for his talent is barmy and offensive. Maybe he should have been dragooned into some sort of Make Poverty History event, and that might have given him another perspective.

I don't think I understand or credit the notion, the claim, that LFC are freezing him out.

Dumbest line of the week: "if they sell him, they can afford to buy Owen Hargreaves!"

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

If Gerrard's target is to win a league title or even repeat the Champions League success this season - as it should be, then leaving Liverpool perversely makes sense, as they just do not look likely to make a serious challenge for the Premiership, and chances of retaining the European Cup akin to chances of Greece retaining the European Championship (the problem with this argument being that intangible factors such as chance and probability were turned over in both cases - but would lightning strike twice in this respect?) - so Gerrard would've left Liverpool with or without a trophy in his bed it seems. Perverse I tells ya.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

i dont like gerrard much

marcus bent wants to face liverpool in the CL. are everton, really bent's EIGHTH club? i wonder if purchases in the immediate future, will send him on the way to his ninth

― charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Gerrard seems bent on harshing Cabbage's buzz.

What do footballers say now that they achieve financial security for life for themselves and their family in a week?

I really dislike Real Madrid, but I would go there for such a huge pay rise, I have to admit. Makes Chelsea look like a bunch of cheapskates.

The thing with Make Poverty History was it should have been Make Greed History all along. But that is a different story.

I don't like Bellamy.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

I reckon Stevie G's been wracked with guilt and self-loathing all these years as a closet Blue (he was a Goodison regular as a kid) and now, finally, having been instrumental in winning L'pool the Champs Lge, he simply has to leave or the mental turmoil will overwhelm him.

He'll finish his career at Everton, the occasional sub's appearance as an injury-ravaged and slightly overweight 33-y-o, a man finally at peace as the Bullens Road hurl good-natured obscenities his way.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

Stevie Me, only 33 days ago:

"How can I think of leaving Liverpool after a night like this?"

Turned out not to be too hard after all.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that's what he said, but did you see his eyes? They were creaming, "Christ, what have I done? Get me out of here."

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

"creaming"! Screaming, sorry.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

I feel that i should've written my last post in the popular style.

I don't think money is the issue for Gerrard. It is just a strange situation to be in, to find yourself having achieved something incredible, something you aspire to repeating, but somewhere else, presumably somewhere where there is more chance of that success happening repeatedly. I wonder how these things trouble someone in such a position as his - such responsibility now.

I quite like him. and he really is a great player.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think what Mr Stringbender said, about greed, was dead sharp.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

I suppose a lot of Porto players pissed off as well.

I did not know he was a Toffee Boy.

I think he lacks the Dunkirk spirit.

I hope he does go and join the other Persil-touting morons at Madrid for a life of bench-warming and not being allowed out of the hotel punctuated with long-distance moaning.

Thank you, Sociah. I am secretly quite proud of it, and thinking of having it copyrighted so I can make a few quid from it.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

Cast your mind back to being 15/16, it's a saturday, the night before you'd been talking to a nice girl, maybe had a bit of a snog at the end of the night while the DJ played Kylie and Jason, anyway, you'd agreed to meet outside Hudson's record shop the next day, so you go, and you wait, and you wait, and you wait. Then you leave. The next week you go back to the under 18s disco and she's snogging some other poor sucker.

That's exactly how I feel right now TENFOLD (decency? hah, I'm doubting it now)

if he's got any decency, he'll go to Barca and not be a Real fascist

― ceebee, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 14:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

In a weird way I am glad the indecision is now over. His demand that the club win things or he left cast a shadow over the whole of last season, and would have become incessant even if he had stayed. I am sickened by the way he has conducted himself, however.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 14:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

Peter, that may not be a bad idea.

Poor Chris. Mind you, some of us never got a snog at all.

I have sympathy for everyone involved and affected by this curious situation, including Rich Stephen.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 14:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hold on, Cabbage. He lifted the European Cup!

I would translate that into your snog metaphor but I fear the words might alert our IT department.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 14:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

some of us came in their mouth

― charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 15:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

I have a lot of sympathy for the idea, expressed in the Guardian's Fiver, that Liverpool are about to get 32M for their second best midfielder. If Chelsea are intent on buying someone they patently don't need for a stupidly overrated amount of money, then I'd snatch their hand off. It's not even like they'll have the abuse for letting the crown jewels go.

I think Gerrard is a good player, but most players can be made world class by a selective series of edited highlights; He's been mainly rubbish for England, nowhere near as good for Liverpool week-in week -out as the London media would have people believe. Most shots and Hollywood passes aren't anywhere near as good as the one that make the compilations.

I now hope Liverpool win the European Cup and the League and Gerrard joins lil' Michael Owen in the 'what have I done?' stakes. Oh, and he's a greedy fucker. Obscene.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Charlton you have overstepped the mark, son.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

(Congrats!)

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

Dave B and by extension Teh Gradinuadis OTM. This is basically Zidane 2K5.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

Did Gerrard actually request/demand more money or is it just that the club offered him more out of desperation? The concern for competetive status is surely more important to him than a competetive salary though naturally that is also key. I think Owen was/is very unlucky in a way!

I agree with Dave in that he is too inconsistent, perhaps this flatters the two big occasions where he delivered for the club last season - though those deliveries were utterly divine.

I still enjoy reminiscing about his performance for England v Germany in Sep 2001.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

Everything Dave B said. I'm disappointed with Gerrard for wanting to leave, and I don't think this is about success (what have Real Madrid won recently? would you rather have Chelsea's league and tinpot, or Liverpool's European Cup?) just money. But £32 million! I would sell him without even thinking about it. How much did they get for Michael Owen last year?

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 17:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Can it really be about money if Gerrard is rejecting 100k a week? How many other players earn more than that a week?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 17:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

There appears to be a vibe amongst some of teh englerland lads (Rio and Gerrard) that it's insulting to offer them a paltry 100K a week.

Is it about money - I'm reminded of the saying that millionaires become millionaires and stay millionaires by being tight-arsed money obsessed fuckers, whilst most of us see money as symbolic (we convert money into things in pursuit of what we want to do). I wonder whether this is another instance; the fact is, in sheer 'things to do with money if I had it' terms, another 500K a year is neither here nor there. Hence it's all about the money.

There's possibly the issue that he knows that in truth, Liverpool were 'lucky'* to win and wants to play somewhere where the ludic aspect will be less. He fails to understand that winning medals in a team such as Chelsea is incomparable to beikng a scouse legend. No sense of history, these young people.

* - lucky as in the true ludic nature of all the best sports

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 00:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

Dave B talks sense. I don't want Gerard at Chelsea.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 07:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

Turns out Stevie G is a jolly decent cove after all:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4654837.stm

Good job we all publicly kept faith with the greedy little shitbag.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 07:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

So, see you all in this thread in the January window when we repeat ourselves on this topic?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 07:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

I need to know what is in the window of Hudson's record shop. Is it a big Tina Turner cut-out?

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 07:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Also - Gerrard ain't nothin' but a cunt tease.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 07:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

Wash your mouth out PJM!

Good - he stays. But I think he's soured his relationship once and for all with the fans.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 07:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think what Gerrard etc are after is GLORY - in the form of silverware. What they don't seem to have an inkling of is that there is feasibly more glory in reviving, say, LFC as Premiership contenders - or, even, as is more likely, failing in that attempt - than there is in decamping to Real or Chelsea. If he stays at LFC for life he becomes a legend - if only to some of the more devoted supporters in the country. If he goes, he becomes just another guy following the money.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 08:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

But he would play less games and be fresher for the World Cup, heh...Liverpool may well collapse early on on account of the Champions League qualifications commitments taking their toil (inevitable injuries, suspensions etc.) if they don't strengthen the squad - so yeh I'm sorry I spoke (in support of Gerrard) now!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 08:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is it possible that Liverpool played a clever spin game, releasing misninformation that portrayed Stevie in a bad light before making it clear to him how loathed he'd be if he left? Hence all the vague apologies in that article and the lack of quotes from Mr Gerrard himself?

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 09:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

It is odd that SFX would apparently be happy to let one of their clients come across as such a flighty ditz.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 09:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yeah the idea that Gerrard felt he was not wanted due to stalling of contract talks - HELLO? Surely no-one is that dumb. Parry presumably didn't want it to flare up because the risk of Gerrard leaving was so strong. Presume it took them some time to work out how to divert an extrat 40k a week his way also (all the big - sorry - supersize clubs look like skinflints next to Chelsea now).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 09:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

gerrard wont win anything with liverpool next year. perhaps this was something on his mind.

it is also possible that his mind is quite small

― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 09:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think he may have replaced SFX as his agents with Phil Redmond

PJM - it was INXS iirc

― ceebee, Wednesday, 6 July 2005 09:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

Reading between these heart-wrenching lines, it seems obvious to me that unsettled Stevie Gerrard will be swapped for unsettled Hernan Crespo:

"I'm having the worst summer of my life because I don't know at what club I will be at in two weeks time," he had said.

"Since losing the Champions League final the only good thing that has happened has been my wedding."

I am trying to think of a suitable response to the INXS revelation.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 10:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

Perhaps with SFX Gerrard felt that he was like a rabbit in a hutch, hence the switch.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 10:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

He told the Liverpool Echo: "The last five or six weeks were the hardest of my life because I wrongly believed the club didn't want me.

"This won't be happening again next summer or ever again."

Right. So them agreeing to what you wanted, which happened prior to you saying "I don't want to be here" isn't a strong enough indication then? Prick.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 10:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

Victim culture, eh? It is all-pervasive, and gets everywhere.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 11:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

Perhaps he will be MADE to say sorry to the fans at this rate...

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 11:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

Does the offer to take over from Benitez still stand? I don't think Stevie G is decisive enough to be a manager. Or, come to think of it, anything else apart from a pampered footballer.

I'm worried about his future, after he hangs his boots up.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 12:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's not as if he'll NEED to work by that point though.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 12:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

"In emotional phone calls last night, Parry reminded the want-away captain that if he left the city now he might never see Dave Boyle's promised streak. Insiders suggest this was crucial in changing Gerrard's mind."

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 12:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

FW: the new Stevie G song, [to be sung in a thick scouse accent]
.............................................................

Ode to "Stevie G"
(to the tune of "Should I stay or should I go" by the Clash)

Agent you gotta let me know
Should I stay or should I go?
If they'll pay 100K
I'll tell Real to go away
But don't treat me like a fool
They pay me less than Harry Kewell

We won the champions league
I kissed the badge down on my knees
Can I resist the lure of Chelski?
Have they a shirt that'll even fit me?
Hope my agent let's me know
Should I quit or should I blow

This indecision's bugging me
They burned my shirt on Sky TV
First it's white and next it's black
And I've made Parry look a right pratt
I've made my mind up and that's that
oh wait I think I'll change it back

Should I stay or should I go now
Should I stay or should I go now
If I go blue I'm paid in roubles
If I stay they'll pay me double
But we'll sign Peter Crouch oh no!
Should I stay or should I go?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 12:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

Dirty Cash - The Adventures of Stevie G

― On one hand I've got myself to blame (Lynskey), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

I am secretly quite proud of it, and thinking of having it copyrighted so I can make a few quid from it.

Ooh!

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 6 July 2005 16:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

"In the language he used to us, he never said he wanted to go. He never said 'I wanted to go'."

"He never said 'I wanted to go'. In the language he used to us, he never said he wanted to go."

"In the language he used to us, he never said he wanted to go. He never said 'I wanted to go'."

"He never said 'I wanted to go'. In the language he used to us, he never said he wanted to go."

"In the language he used to us, he never said he wanted to go. He never said 'I wanted to go'."

"He never said 'I wanted to go'. In the language he used to us, he never said he wanted to go."

― the steinfox, Wednesday, 6 July 2005 16:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

In the words of Dusty Springfield - It Begins Again.

Liverpool begin their defence of their European crown tonight at home to lowly Total Control Racing of Wales.

The match is a sell-out!

Most of Total Control Racing's players are Scousers!

One of them has a Liverpool tattoo, unlike Cabbage.

Will the buzz remain unharshed?

Is anyone excited?

I haven't even been on me summer holidays yet!

(I'm not going.)

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 10:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

Everton's first pre-season friendly was a 9-0 win over FC Gamlitz in Austria (Vaughan hat-trick! It's Rooney summer '02 all over again! It totally makes up for the Highbury rout!); I expect Liverpool to at least match that tonight.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 10:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

Congratulations to Everton FC and all their supporters on a tremendous achievement.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 11:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

When the lads get back we're going to have an open-top taxi drive up and down Spellow Lane a couple of times with a couple of the youth squad in, holding up their duty-free.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 11:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Liverpool match is on ITV2 tonight, BTW. I am that football-deprived of late that even this is exciting me.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 16:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well done, Stevie G! You've earned your wages this week, big fella!

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Thursday, 14 July 2005 07:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Crouch to Liverpool:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4677639.stm

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 13:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

Liverpool announce new Crouch lunchboxes for young fans:

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 13:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

I always think he looks like a baby giraffe, struggling to get to its feet after being born.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 13:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

This thread gets better and better and BETTER!

When the 9th goal went in, I suppose it was Goodnight Vienna. Or, Goodnight Gamlitz.

It's true, Stevie G seems to have played out of his SKIN, these two weeks!

They weren't dancing on the streets of Total Network Solutions by the time he'd finished with them!

When I heard that Crouch had at last made his move, I was going to revive this thread and say something like, 'Cor, with Crouch on board, they could become unstoppable'. I wasn't going to mean it. But then I realized that technically they already are. Unstoppable.

― the blissfox, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

True to his word, Michael has sent me the LFC Champions League DVD (and the UEFA/FA/MILK cup season DVD too!). What a sweetheart. I vow never to never mention the events of 25/5/05 in his presence ever again.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

I hear the DVD continues a hidden 'Easter egg' consisting of a CGI simulation of Boyler's naked parade through the city's fair streets.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

I vow never to never mention the events of 25/5/05 in his presence ever again.

(I call that a) Bargain!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

That was very generous. He once gave me a crappy computer-only sub-DVD CD-R doubel disc set of The Bourne Conspiracy (or Identity). I might watch it tonight. If only I could watch it on the train in some kind of brain implant.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

Actually, Mike, can you sort me out with some other stuff before you leave?

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

For the record, Michael has got DVDs of some belly dancer woman and Jesus Christ Superstar, and he "might have to hand them in". Very poor.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 21 July 2005 08:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

I said "ballet" (it's Sylvie Guillem, poncing-abaht fans) but PJ's Midlands-accented brain parsed it as "belly". Also: Thunderbirds - DVD extras with Japanese subs.

It would've been so much easier to stick with my current job and just supplement my income down Deptford market with me dodgy discs.

Everton lost on penalties to Thailand, I see. I think it was a strategic defeat to boost Chang beer sales.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 21 July 2005 08:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

they were lucky not to lose in normal time!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 21 July 2005 08:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

(Michael has got a Thunderbirds sticker on his dictionary.)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 21 July 2005 08:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

Gallstad 0-14 Aston Villa

Luke Moore's career statistics
Substitute Luke Moore scored six as Aston Villa humiliated Swedish part-timers Gallstads in a 14-goal romp that opened their tour.
Moore's tally came in 31 second-half minutes while there were two goals each for Juan Pablo Angel, Kevin Phillips and Nolberto Solano.

Liam Ridgewell and Lee Hendrie managed one goal each.

Moore was only a half-time replacement for Phillips but needed 14 minutes to get on the scoresheet.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 22 July 2005 09:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

That's shut you all up, hasn't it? Eh? Eh? EH?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 22 July 2005 10:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Congratulations to Aston Villa FC and their supporter on a tremendous achievement.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 22 July 2005 10:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

Thank you!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 22 July 2005 10:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

Regarding EFC's penalty shootout defeat to the Thai U23s, WSAG said:

Weir and McFadden made no mistakes with the first two for the Blues, but then Yobo stepped up, took one step and, to quote a friend, kicked the ball as if he was returning it to a small child. Seriously, suspect packages get toeyed harder.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 22 July 2005 11:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

Manchester City could send midfielder Joey Barton home from their Thailand trip after he was allegedly involved in an altercation with an Everton fan.
Everton and Bolton are also in Thailand for the Asia Trophy and it was a 15-year-old Toffees supporter who Barton, 22, reportedly clashed with.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 22 July 2005 12:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is it too obvious a conclusion to draw that the Everton fan called him a "Joey"?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 22 July 2005 12:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm surprised poor Joey could even understand him.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 22 July 2005 12:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

(... and better, and better!)

― the blissfox, Friday, 22 July 2005 13:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

I see EFC lost on pens again, this time to Man City (Bolton beat the Thai U23s with a last-min Diouf pen in the final).

Not as interesting as my dreams either side of the match - the first in which the Blues were drawn with Linfield, Fazakerley and En Cho Ryu (of Austria, natch) in their Champs Lge group (the most dream-like aspect of it being that we qualify for the group stage), the second in which we faced Aston Villa away in a Premiership opener and either won 3-2 or lost 3-2 depending on which newspaper you read. Everyone seemed in agreement that Luke Moore got the last goal of the game but no one was sure in which net. The Observer said the press box were gripped by "a mental fog". The goal times were bizarre too - Cahill opening the scoring in the 177th minute.

I think the season may be looming.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 24 July 2005 09:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

It sounds promising. The boy Mooro could be the revelation of the season.

Milan Baros to Villa? "My boy don't want any fucking silverware," said his agent, "the Brasso costs a bomb and it's all rub, rub, rub, like my old mum with the washing". His agent is a cockney.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 25 July 2005 07:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

A mental fog!!

― the blissfox, Tuesday, 26 July 2005 12:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

Not sure Cahill will be around for the 177th minute, though:

It is understood the 25-year-old Australian is seeking almost double his current wage, which would make him one of the club's top earners.

"I'm very disappointed that we have not been able to agree terms," said Cahill, who finished his first season as Everton's leading goalscorer with 12 goals. "I was very keen to commit my long-term future to the club, but it looks as though that won't be possible."

Yes - I guess it looks that way. Pity, as you were so keen.

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 26 July 2005 12:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

But my favourite Scouse report of the day is this, from LFC's experience in Lithuania:

The bone-dry surface at the St Dariaus and St Gireno Stadium could prove problematic, the standard of the pitch not helped by the fact that the European junior athletics championships took place in this arena over the weekend. Javelin divot marks are visible on the turf and as the players trotted through their training routines last night the prospect of one of his key men turning an ankle sent shivers down Benítez's spine.

Javelin divot marks!

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 26 July 2005 12:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

Does anyone fancy catching a bit of LFC vs the mighty Lithuanians in town tonight? It's on SKY1, right?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 12:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

JtN - yes, could be a good idea. In fact, it was striking me, like a hard old leather ball, when I read the report.

I guess we'll have to find a way to the SKY1, but we could get some tips by listening to the old Primitives track "(We've) Found A Way (To The Sun)" (which despite its brilliantly precise use of parentheses was to my knowledge never also known as "Found A Way").

― the blissfox, Tuesday, 26 July 2005 12:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

They want throwing some bloody javelins at 'em, spoilt little nerkers.

As for Cahill, make him clean the toilets for three years!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 12:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think the Cahill thing is a storm in a royal blue mug; he's still got three years to go, plenty of time to sort it aht. Amazingly, we've re-signed Pistone.

Liverpool seem to be hoovering up players for "undisclosed" sums. Are three-digit squad numbers allowed? Hey, why not enter two or three teams in the FA Cup?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 13:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if this will destroy Cahill's "relationship with the fans"? I do hope so, it must be ever so distressing to have one's "relationship with the fans" turn sour.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 13:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

I agree, I don't think Cahill's about to leave. But I find his words unsavoury.

5th round: Liverpool vs Benitez Boys. BBs win on a 2nd replay, on a frozen plastic pitch, in Hatfield.

Spurs never seem to announce what they've paid either, these years. Perhaps this is for the best - it stops people knowing how much money we are wasting, or still have to waste on other players should another club demand it?

― the bingfox, Tuesday, 26 July 2005 13:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think the fans should be fairly understanding - it's not exactly a snub, Cahill's decided not to sign away a large chunk of his career for an extra £5k/week, hoping to hold out for a better deal. By current standards, it's hardly greedy. I think 80% of all "quotes" by footballers are totally made up. Don't quote me on that.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 13:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Pinefox and I will be convening at the Friend at Hand near Russell Square if anyone fancies joining us to watch the game. MJ? PJM?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 13:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm afraid not, because I'm going to view a house in SE19 at 8pm. This doesn't involve merely standing outside looking at it because I could do that any time.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 13:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

You know, I'd kind of like to, despite my complete lack of interest in this exercise in divot-churning. But I feel that I ought to go home and do my share of the dandling duties. If it wasn't for that, I would be up for it. I am torn, can you tell?

That pub's name is a bit mutually masturbatory, isn't it?

Michael, I recommend buying a totally knackered house and doing it up. That's my plan. Collins DIY Manual is on offer at the moment.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 13:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Remember, folks - the wank boozer symposium (if Stuart Murdoch wants that phrase he can pay me for it) is tonight!

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 26 July 2005 15:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

meanwhile, 15 years for ATTEMPTED murder? And it's not even the right man :(

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 16:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

Everton name Weir as new captain:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/4721337.stm

He's 35!

I am bored enough to find that interesting.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

It was good, at the wank boozer symposium. We decided that

1) Morley and Thomson should review more widely

2) Amis is a worse realist than Nabokov

3) Sinclair has more quiddity than Amis

4) LFC weathered the storm

5) book reviews are the motor of intellectual history

6) Orange Juice = Pound, Lloyd Cole = Eliot

But we did not quite agree on the decline of radio as a public experience.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 28 July 2005 14:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

Meanwhile - Moyes talks tough!

"I'm concerned about the draw, definitely," the manager said. "I've got clear concerns about what might happen. Of course the decision as to who is seeded or not is nothing to do with us. We can't influence who is seeded and who is not, but I do think that it's wrong that two clubs from the same country - the same city even - could be drawn against each other in European competition at this stage.

"You qualify for the Champions League in order to play teams from another country, not your local rivals. You don't usually expect to get one from your own country, let alone your own city, but there is only one club which is exposed to the fact that Liverpool have not been granted country protection, and that's Everton. That's a fact."

Everton fans must appreciate his gritty determination to stick up for the club.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 28 July 2005 14:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

Also, the notion that Liverpool are amongst the seeds is a bit like the defending Wimbledon champion, denied a wildcard or direct entry because his/her ranking has slumped so low, battling through Roehampton qualifying and then getting seeded in the main draw.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 28 July 2005 14:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Orange Juice and Lloyd Cole fighting in the Captain's tower."

Hmm - doesn't quite scan.

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 28 July 2005 16:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

I have looked up quiddity. I think we should just declare Amis shit and have done with it.

Perhaps Phil Thomson* will take over Strachan's role on MOTD2, then he can review more.

Oh I will have to do some book reviews then. I might start by actually finishing a book. That would be a start.

Lloyd is, I think, a bit of an Orange Juice copyist. Does that fit you analogy, or is it a bit of a (wait for it) Poundstretcher? (As in what ambulance drivers have).

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 29 July 2005 07:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Why has no one commented on how shocking it is for The Pinefox to say, let alone publish, the word wank?

― Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 29 July 2005 08:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

He's gone downhill.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 29 July 2005 08:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

I never had him down as a Symposium fan either.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 29 July 2005 08:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm afraid you've lost us oldies there.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 29 July 2005 08:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

Big news from the Champs Lge draw relevant to this thread: FIRST DERBY OF THE SEASON...will still be in December*. Phew.

(* - Carling Cup notwithstanding).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

for you, PJ

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

As we all know, Symposium have split up a long time ago which is, ofcourse a shame. I still listen to their records so now and then and i hope you do to :)

I don't.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

Ross: Current band 'Papercuts'

With JtN, of course.

― Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes, I saw that, but I was lost for words.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 29 July 2005 09:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

Crickey!

I am glad the derby, posibly featuring Lerby, has been delayed.

― the pinefox, Friday, 29 July 2005 18:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

I mean, possibly.

All those posts were good. That's why I said, Crickey.

Mooro, your point is good; (Barrow-) in fairness, I was trying to be Murdochesque.

― the pinefox, Friday, 29 July 2005 18:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

Fenerbahce 5-0 Everton. Looking good, chaps.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 31 July 2005 09:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

Perhaps Everton are getting their bad spell out of the way before the season proper starts.

I am looking forward to Michael Reporting Back on his Everton DVDs.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 1 August 2005 06:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've only watched half of my 03-04 Season Review WITH RAY STUBBS so far; the highlights are inevitably edited in such a way that gives the impression that, if only our finishing had been a little better, we'd have been top three by Xmas. We did pummel Chelsea for no reward though (Nyarko - Nyarko! - hitting the bar, Mutu scoring with his arm). The 30/8/03 Goodison derby is thankfully glossed over.

Unfortunately, the disc is FAULTY. It jumps straight from Big Les peeling away after slamming home a freekick for Leicester at Goodison the week before Xmas to the Norwich FA Cup tie three games later - missing FIVE EFC goals! Maybe I should QC the other discs before drafting my letter of complaint.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 1 August 2005 07:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh dear.

In general, I don't like those posthumous commentaries. I mean, with the benefit of hindsight commentaries.

You will be pleased to hear I am proofing Alexei Sayle.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 1 August 2005 07:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

There is no proof for Alexei Sayle, you just have to believe in Him.

Stubbsy manages to keep the tone chipper in his linking voiceovers even though he knows the season will end in miserable failure. I don't recognise the match commentators (possibly EFC's own) but they're inarticulate enough to convince you that they were there at the time. We do get a dash of Rooney-in-excelsis from 02-03 with Clive T mixed very quietly.

Me and the missus are currently moving cut-outs around on graph paper in an effort to solve a househunting quandary. Little time for luxuriating in McFadden's wasted potential today.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 1 August 2005 11:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

LJ Kruzer is sitting in your place.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 1 August 2005 11:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh, if I'd known my seat was going to go to him I'd have left all my Can MP3s on the C-drive.

I see "sources close to" little Mikey Owen say Everton were one of the clubs (see also: Bolton W, Schalke, Hexham Rheostatics) initially ~~laughed out of the room~~ linked with the "unsettled England star". I wonder if yr modern L'pool fan would find his seemingly impending move to Old Trafford last palatable than one to Goodison?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 1 August 2005 12:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

less, not last

bless, not blast

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 1 August 2005 12:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

I am hoping that Ickle Michael's post-LFC career trajectory now follows that of R. Fowler.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 1 August 2005 12:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

I am eating an Everton mint.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 1 August 2005 13:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

The thought of Michael Owen playing for Man U is pretty sickening, though not as sickening as it would be if he went to Chelsea.

In response to Michael's question, I don't think I'd be as disgusted if he went to Everton, as Man U, possibly cos I'm not from Liverpool, or possibly because I fear Man U more!

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 1 August 2005 20:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't think there is one English club that would suit Owen right now which is quite scary. Maybe Milan or Juve should pick him up.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Monday, 1 August 2005 21:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1540848,00.html

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 07:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

Owen-to-United is a good instance of the vacuity of footy talk in the so-called media and that. Days of it - then it emerges that they aren't that interested in him anyway.

Lots of clubs or teams could be improved by his insertion. Everton are one of them. So are Liverpool, maybe!

Also today: Benitez says that he's glad Mourinho is putting LFC down cos it means he's scared of them.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 14:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

If Rafa was starring in an American sitcom it would be called Good Comeback! If not Tell It To My Hand (The One That Isn't Holding A European Cup For Keepsies).

But he let himself down a bit by empthasising the importance of Gerrard re "He will win more trophies for us...soon" Better to play down the one-man show thing surely.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 14:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't know, his comeback reminds me of a Boy George-apologist schoolfriend of mine (who is now Big In Tha Theatre) whose response to Spitting Image's "War is naughty, people who start wars should be sent to bed early" pisstake was to say that it proved Culture Club were still important.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 15:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

Why would Boy George need apologists? His A-Team cameo wasn't THAT bad.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 15:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

Today I read in the Independent (there) that Anthony Le Tallec is leaving LFC for Sunderland on a year's loan. He comments: "At Liverpool it is very difficult to play every week".

Yes - it often looked that way, last season.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 12:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

(I know, they are Champions of Europe!)

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 12:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

Return of the high ball game:

Everton 1-0 Udinese
Simon Davies scored Everton's winner against Udinese but the Merseysiders produced a less than convincing show.
Davies stabbed home a knock down from Duncan Ferguson as the Toffees prepared for their Champions League qualifier against Villarreal on Tuesday.

Villarreal assistant coach Ruben Cousillas was at the game as Everton's lack of firepower seemed to be exposed.

Everton only scored after reverting to the high ball game and have just three goals in five pre-season friendlies.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 4 August 2005 08:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

Knock it long to the big lad.

If these are the tactics that Everton are to employ thins season, then I'll be liking them very much indeed. Football as it should be played. They have their beliefs.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 4 August 2005 08:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

I said thins when I meant to say this. It's part of my ongoing absession with cheesy biscuits, and should be disregarded.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 4 August 2005 08:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

Have you got some cheesy biscuits? All I've got is a poxy apple, and I'm not eating that!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 4 August 2005 08:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

If I had cheesy biscuits, I wouldn't be obsessing about them. I would be scoffing them.

Above, I also said absession when I should have said obsession. This was not an effect of my obsession, but simply a typographical error.

Peter Crouch has hurt his leg and his mum says he's not allowed to play with the rough boys for three weeks. Everton want to buy Philip Neville, but I worry that the Neville boys will be sad if they are split up.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 4 August 2005 08:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

They will be able to text each other.

It is a shame about Crouch, the fucking beanpole.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 4 August 2005 08:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

Philip Neville goes toffee:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/4744383.stm

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 4 August 2005 09:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Phil Neville can't play for toffee!

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 4 August 2005 09:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hi, David!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 4 August 2005 09:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

He can play for peanuts, evidently.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 4 August 2005 09:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

Er, can't think of a really good monkey joke.

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 4 August 2005 10:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

Everton only scored after reverting to the high ball game and have just three goals in five pre-season friendlies.

I refer the casual reader to the 9-0 mauling of crack Austrian transgendered electro-outfit Terre Thaemlitz, described earlier in this thread.

Neville is a bit of a bolt from the blue. I didn't expect it at all. A strange consolation prize if we fail to land Baros.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 4 August 2005 15:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

Maybe that was a pre-pre-season friendly.

I once scored two goals against the Cubs when I was about 16.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 5 August 2005 07:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

Everton lost, then.

I think they can still make it through though.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 06:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

They (Everton) were a little unlucky. Villareal won it with a half chance. I like the midfield of Arteta, Neville and Cahill. Davies not so much.

Their talents are a little bypassed when Big Dunc comes on.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 07:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

We're not quite good enough at this level; it's a shame Osman and Kroldrup weren't fit enough to figure. Never looked likely to score after their second goal.

Oh well, we were frequently better away from home last season - a performance like the one at Villa Park in March would see us through.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 07:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

I have erased that from my memory, along with everything else.

Will you make my wife your Flickr friend, please? She is trying to see the Ava pix, but is being rebuffed.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 07:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

(I don't know how to do this for a Flickr user I've never encountered; can't she make me her contact, then I can accept that and then make her my friend? I did a search for A******a, found five but I'm not which one is yr missus).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 08:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

(Oh, scratch that - the 4th one is obviously her. It is done.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 08:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

why on earth was the Everton match not on TV last night? I had 2 stations showing Man U's boring victory.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 08:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

It was on tv here, either BBC1 or ITV2, can't remember which

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 08:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

BBC1 had the Man U game, I get ITV3 but not ITV2, sadly ITV3 mainly shows programmes lost in the annals of time. It's annoying, is ITV2 where all the games are on then? Cos last week I'd have watched Celtic above Liverpool, given there was something to play for, but again I had no choice.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 08:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

It was, I think, on ITV 2, according the the clips on the news. We haven't got ITV 2, and we can hardly see ITV 1. I'm not bovvered.

Thank you, Michael.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 08:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes, she is the fourth one.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 09:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

I watched some of the Everton match on ITV2.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 09:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes, ITV2 - there's generally an alternate match on there during the group phase when ITV1 have the big ratings-puller. ITV2 also has the Everton second leg on 24/8.

(I think we have ITV3 on more than any other channel).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 09:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

Those repeats of Never The Twain and Rumpole Of The Bailey ARE irresistable it's true...

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 09:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

ITV3 has Midsummer Murders. The old series too with Sergeant Troy. Brilliant.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 10:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

Midsomer! Oh, the Leerdammer commercials! My aching sides!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 10:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

If they showed the same adverts that came inbetween the programmes when they were first shown I would watch THOSE.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 10:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

ITV3 condense the original two hour shows into 90 minutes and many episodes now make no sense, "cut out that bit with Gabrielle Drake burying the body in the garden, it's not important."

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 10:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

Er, do they? I thought they still had 2-hr slots, or do they only reserve those for the sainted Jason and Thaw?

I find it had to imagine Midsomer Murders being any longer than it seems on ITV3.

(Only a flurry of CSKA goals will break this thread digression).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 11:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

I thought ManYoo on the Beeb was a bizarre choice in the circs although I have ITV2.

Everton hard up against it. They were unfortunate that Villareal scored with 2 half chances, although V could also have had a pen. E are going to have to score at least 2 over there, a tall order, V impressed me defensively and it looks like they can create goals out of nothing. Some of their passing didn't impress me as much as it did the commentary team, they seemed to get nervous when aggressively closed down, but they may be better at home. Everton will need a large slice of luck, I think, to progress.

― frankiemachine, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 11:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

Do Everton go into the UEFA Cup if they lose?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 11:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

Frankie is right, I'm afraid. The 'Yellow Submarines' were very good, indeed, and will possibly be even better at home. Based on what I saw last night, I think they'll do well in the Champs' League. Oh and Riquelme was terrific.

I like the fact they went on a Beatles tour on Tuesday. Or is it really normal for visiting European sides to do this when they're playing in Merseyside?

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 11:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes they do.

It would be great to see Everton progress. I was talking to my wine about this last night. I think it's only Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle and Blackburn who have played Champions League football. Aside from wishing all Engliush teams well, it's nice to see new blood in the competition.

I wonder how this compares with Italy / Spain etc in terms of the hegemony of previous entrants. I can't be bothered to work it out.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

Michael you are forgetting about Leeds United, who I believe reached the semi-finals of the competition as part of their warm-up for playing Luton Town this season.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

I dearly hope that wine wasn't just a typo for wife there, Mikey.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

Do'h!

I still laugh at the 7m quid they played for Seth Johnson.

Not a typo. Girlfriend was out. Summer work party! It was pizza, wine and football for me, lazing on the couch in my undies.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

Leeds got knocked out by Rangers, no? Quarter finals at most, I think.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

No they got knocked out by Valencia in the 2001 semis. So ner.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Nun.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

Try as I might, this has been completely erased from my memory too.

Are you making it up?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

Rangers put Leeds out in 92/93, which was still the European Cup I think.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Would I?

http://www.soccerbase.com/cup2.sd?competitionid=66

Harry Kewell was in that squad, therefore it's almost on topic.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Rangers put Leeds out in the last knockout round to qualify for the first group stage of the first Champions League.
The group stage was 2 groups of 4 with the group winners meeting in the final. Some Rangers fans claim this technically counts as a semi final, as a goal against CSKA Moscow in the last game would have put them in the final.
Rangers were unbeaten in the tournament with 6 wins and 4 draws. I was gutted for them :-P

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Valencia games finished 0-0 at Elland Road and 3-0 in Valencia.

Note, the holy grail resides there. I don't mean Leeds (obviously).

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 13:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

However, The Nun told the club website: "I admire Liverpool's taste but Nobby is an important part of our plans and will not be going anywhere."

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 18 August 2005 12:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

Cripes - JtN made an Amis joke and no-one mentioned it.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 18 August 2005 20:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

Baros to Lyon?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/4154498.stm

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 19 August 2005 08:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

What is this Amis (and can we eat it)?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 19 August 2005 09:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

I dearly hope that Amis was just a typo for Amish there, bellefox.

― Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 19 August 2005 09:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

New striker for Benfica:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4163486.stm

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 19 August 2005 11:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Ha, that is funny, PJ!

Deft from Mooro also.

― the bellefox, Friday, 19 August 2005 12:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

Bolton 0-1 Everton

Blues' first points of the season!

― the pinefox, Sunday, 21 August 2005 13:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

disappointed that dioufy couldnt conjure up something:/

― charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 21 August 2005 13:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

There aren't many teams that can come away from "The Reebok" with all three points.

Meanwhile, "The Strachan View" has been replaced by the equally insightful "The Hansen Hindsight" on MOTD.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 22 August 2005 06:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

Bolton were all over us - something like 16 attempts at goal to our three; we totally pinched it. But, still, this happens often enough to Everton at Goodison (that outrageous Chelsea game the season before last springs to mind), so, have some hard cheese, Sam. ("Don't mind if I do, have you got any crackers?")

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 22 August 2005 08:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

A terrible first 81 minutes, but...

HOORAY! LFC WIN THE SUPER CUP!

(But I'm left wondering why we ever bought Zenden, how Didi forgot how to pass, and why we don't sell Morientes rather than Cissé.)

― Djibril Troussé (Jerrynipper), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

Didi's passing became kind of impressive after a while. Morientes seems listless yeah, but I say give him time. I really really really don't want Cissé to leave, it would just feel so wrong.

I don't even think I want Owen back if it means Cissé is going.

There's too much quick fix hysteria about Liverpool this season, they did look woeful before Cissé came on but it's not a striker they need necessarily, not half as much as a good creative midfielder, I mean every team we play against, even CSKA Sofia, I think when one of their players beats two of ours and looks good on the ball, I think "even HE would be good for Liverpool", there's no flair at the moment. McManaman in his peak would make this Liverpool team so so so much more effective. Figo would have been good, even Stelios.

Somebody though, a good Cristiano Ronaldo type midfielder is vital.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

I dunno, a decent right winger is more important I reckon. We have Alonso and Gerrard - both creative midfielders that win matches, albeit in different ways - in our first choice midfield, along with Sissoko or Hamann doing the Makelele role. We definitely have too many strikers though. Mellor won't be forcing his way back into the team, that's for sure.

Or what about trying Zenden through the middle? He was superb there for Boro last year, after being turned into a left back at Barca and failing as a winger at Chelsea. We've bought a class central midfielder and made him play somewhere he's been proven to be average.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

No I agree, I meant a winger, Gerrard and Alonso aren't really the same type of creative midfielder as someone like Henry, or Pires, or Duff/Robben/Wright Philips, someone who can run with the ball! We play defenders on the wing so often!

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 27 August 2005 09:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

You need someone like Van Der Meyde. Oh, hang on...

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 27 August 2005 11:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

'Robbie Keane in talks with Everton', says Guardian website.

I wish the transfer window would close!

We only have one striker fit anyway!

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

what a deflating week, how on earth are Liverpool so broke? latest news: they have demanded players cease swapping jerseys in small games because the club can only afford 5 pounds for new ones, and not the 15 adidas are demanding.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 19:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://football.guardian.co.uk/womensfootball/story/0,12783,1567979,00.html

I see on the internet that England are close to winning The Ashes, in cricket. I turned on the radio to listen. Unfortunately I still do not know what the rules are, so I don't really understand the meaning of what the commentators say. It is a pity as I like big inspiring events, like Live8 and England winning at sport.

― the bellefox, Monday, 12 September 2005 15:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Whoops.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 15 September 2005 20:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hahaha! Oh dear. I hadn't heard but just went on BBC sit to see what you were on about. Well I'm sure the bluenoses enjoyed it while it lasted...q

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Thursday, 15 September 2005 20:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

I was watching Bolton, who won.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 15 September 2005 20:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

We (Hibs) drew, not necessarily a bad thing.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 15 September 2005 21:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

At least they got that vital away goal...

love,
someone else who has seen their team lose five goals away to a shitey bunch of European no-hopers in Europe xx

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 15 September 2005 23:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

(aldo, Hibs were rubbish)

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 15 September 2005 23:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

Everton dumped out of UEFA shocka.

We're used to thinking of the teams that bounce in and out of the premiership (Palace, Sunderland, Bolton until recently) as the yo-yo teams, but Everton seem to have been experimenting with an intra-premiership yo-yo over the last few seasons.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Friday, 16 September 2005 06:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

I wrote something very rude and bitter on this thread last night, post-pub, but thought better of it and deleted it.

It's like we're Sissy Spacek in Carrie, invited to the prom, made queen, and then humiliated in front of the masses. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, none of the Everton squad are telekinetic. They're barely kinetic.

Thanks for the commiserations, Ailsa. I'd settle for that 4-0 home leg too.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 16 September 2005 08:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is the home leg gonna be on terrestrial TV? I have to see it.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Friday, 16 September 2005 08:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

ITV2 probably. 0-3, two sent off, Cahill out for the season, I expect. Enjoy, Crackity.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 16 September 2005 08:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

I feel bad for Everton.

Actually,that's not completely true. Really, I feel bad for Jonesy. Sorry Jonesy.

Nevertheless "They're barely kinetic" made me laugh.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 September 2005 08:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's an Artmedia moment... except Dinamo Bucharest are a better team

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 08:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

xxpost

Oh good, I've got Freeview. I will enjoy it either way, I'm a Red! Hope they storm through actually, as long as they don't end up winning the thing. In any case, they have to go for it so there'll be goals aplenty I'm sure.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Friday, 16 September 2005 08:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

I feel bad for Everton.
Arsenal away next, where they lost 7 (seven) - 0 last season.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

I feel bad for Everton.
Arsenal away next, where they lost 7 (seven) - 0 last season.
-- Onimo (gerry.wat...), September 16th, 2005.

LOL I always felt the spelling out of the number on the Videprinter rubbed it in somewhat for the team that just got their asses whupped.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think if Matt DC ever has to read out such a score on that red button thingy, he should announce "open brackets", SPELL THE WORD then "close brackets".

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

To be fair, we didn't have anything to play for at Highbury in May and so got passed off the park by a vastly superior side without ever getting stuck into them. Whereas last night...

Considering how dreary the Premiership has been so far this season (how many 0-0s?), it's probably about time yr faithful Sky subscribers got a goalfest. Monday might be it. We should put Richard Wright in, help the cause.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

Considering how dreary the Premiership has been so far this season

It was hardly a thrill-a-minute last season

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

Still more exciting than any other division in the world ;)

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is that so?

― Baaderonixx and the choco-pop babies (baaderonixx), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

So they keep telling us

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well it may come as a shock to you to know that they sometimes have no-score draws in La Liga as well.

I suppose excitement is relative though e.g. Exeter fans will be finding the Conference v exciting at the mo.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

The conference is exciting all the time.

Also nil-nil draws are very often fascinating, you philistines.

Also fizz it up long to the big lad ect ect.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

I never said 0-0 draws were boring, I said the Premiership was

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm finding the Conference very exciting at the mo' - I read the Non-League paper in the Sydenham Sainsbury's the other day and I might even buy a copy in the near-future. It is mostly cos of Exeter though.

xpost (I'm sure some of the Prem 0-0s have been good value [Spurs-Lpool f'instance] but I suspect that there's a fairly high level of tedium in The Best League In The WorldTM at the mo'. Football should've ended in 1970 anyway).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 16 September 2005 09:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't find the Conference exciting, but I wish Exeter well. I find the Premiership exciting often. I am excited about Charlton now - it would be great to see them challenging for a CL place. West Ham also look to be full of surprises. The quality of football is as ever depending on what side of their bed individual players got out of and the price of feesh.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

Roman and Malcolm have killed teh Premiership TM.

― manner the whirled, Friday, 16 September 2005 10:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

At least Roman has made it a three horse race as opposed to two.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Dada it was MJ and SteveM who made the link between 0-0 and dull. So you're in the clear. And Jonesy is in the clear because he had an upsetting night last night. SteveM, I'm going to get you later.

The good thing about the Conference is that any team has the capacity to have a very bad off day and blow it horribly against apparent no-hopers. This is still no reason to buy The Bad Paper though, Mike. They still hate us, btw.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Polanski and McDowell? Maybe football did end in 1970.

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

At least Roman has made it a three horse race as opposed to two.

No, he's made it a one-horse 'race'.

― manner the whirled, Friday, 16 September 2005 10:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

0-0 draws are often very boring. There is nothing wrong with this statement. I have not claimed that they ALL are however, though you are forgiven for believing that I implied this.

The last Premiership game I went to was a 0-0 and it pissed down with rain, so maybe I'm still just bitter about that (and paying £40 for the privilege). But still the most exciting league in the universe!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

DON'T BUY THE BAD PAPER, it is the start of a decline that can see you, without realising it, becoming interested in step four promotion and relegation issues and even, in worse case scenarios, becoming a GROUND-HOPPER!!

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well, OK, not just 0-0s, but an extraordinary shortage of goals all round, Tim. And, yes, if a 0-0 can be thrilling, so can a 1-0 or a 1-1, but as a general indication of excitement, several weeks of low- or no-scoring games suggests a slight drabness to proceedings.

Just my perception - I'm not very engaged by things in the top flight of Engish football at the mo' (= I can't be bothered watching MOTD) because (a) my team is doing badly, (b) we all know who's going to win the thing, (c) there aren't many goals about.

Maybe this is the best season yet cos the defences are all playing like gods, I dunno.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

i often wish it were 1970. nothing to do with football though

― terry lennox. (gareth), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's not 0-0's that are boring; it's that fact that too many teams are playing crap 0-0s, trying to get points on the board through fear. Teams are picking their matches to try and win, such as West Brom against Chelsea. The vogue for 4-5-1 is the very epitome of this - the new percentage football, calculated to restrict the opposition and nick goals when you can.

The idea that the Premiership is the best in the world though is fucking laughable. Really is. On every level, apart from misplaced nationalistic fervour and myopia, it's bobbins. For every world class player, there's 3 donkeys getting the best gig in their lives.

Dada OTM - It's now a 1.5 horse race, when it was two. Left to its own devices, it'd now be a 3.5 horse race, but that's gone out the window. The stadiums are designed with little vision or sense of history, the prices are obscene, the wages equally so. Ant it doesn't know what it's for. It has no sense of itself except as a blob like entity who must keep on taking, taking taking lest, like a fish that stops moving, it sinks to the bottom. It's entire raison d'rtre is like aan amoeba - it reproduces year-on-year.

I was at a reception last night for the Racial Equality Standard, where 5 premiership club s were awarded this kite mark which showed how they were actively working toi improve the diversity of their non-playing staff. But in the midst of the rather obscene backslapping, no-one dared point out the rather obvious point that the biggest barrier to participation in the lives of clubs is the ticket barrier, which is the biggest problem young ethnic kids and families in inner cities have. But lets not talk about common or garden economics. That's so old labour isn't it?

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

There's a good thread on this on the When Saturday Comes messageboard

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

I largely agree with your sentiments DB but there is a strong argument which says that (at the top end of football at least) the need to actually be at games in order to "participation in the life of a club" is a thing of the past.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

I know we all have this argument every three months but...Where is this NOT the case? I'm still sceptical that La Liga or Serie A really contain an overall better class of players/football - and you can't seriously be claiming any other league to be up there. Notice I've not said 'best league' re the Premiership anyway, only most 'exciting'.

Name other leagues where it's not a 1.5 horse race too. Presumably only Barcelona and Real pending some managerial miracle can win the Spanish league, as usual. In Italy it will doubtless come down to Milan or Juve once again. All the top tier divisions are 'predicatable' in this regard.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

But in the midst of the rather obscene backslapping, no-one dared point out the rather obvious point that the biggest barrier to participation in the lives of clubs is the ticket barrier, which is the biggest problem young ethnic kids and families in inner cities have.

I said this here before, compare the percentage of black faces on the pitch to black faces in the crowd - well, no comparison really

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes the crowd wins, statistically, clearly.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

What exactly is exciting about the Premiership? Apart from occasional flashes from genius from exceptional players? I honestly would much rather be watching Scottish football week in, week out (absence makes the Hearts grow fonder)

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

So circa 40% of the Chelsea team on Tuesday was black and over 40% of the crowd was black?

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh right I see! Semantic slippage on my part.

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes, I didn't expect you meant percentages, that's just silly!

You're obviously not going to be convinced by any pro-Premiership argument so why bother? ;) There remain as many pros as cons I think. I would be surprised if it was deemed to necessary to list all these pros and cons once again.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

I admit the fact that I don't care about any of the teams or who wins it rather mitigates against me criticising it!

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

What exactly is exciting about the Premiership?
OTM

Instead of pointing out how other euopean leagues are "as bad" as the english one, you should be explaining what exactly makes it "more exciting". Suspense? Nope. Big names? Not really. Glitzy technical prowess? Definitely not.

― Baaderonixx and the choco-pop babies (baaderonixx), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

The Premiership can be very exciting indeed but the title race is not one of those reasons right now. How quickly we forget the four-way relegation battle on the last day of last season. Tsk, it's Big Clubbism gone mad, Mr Boyle.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

Then again I support a team capable of putting four goals past Arsenal and still losing, so maybe I'm not a reliable barometer here.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

There is no point in me pointing out why I think the Premiership is more exciting because excitement, like boredom, is relative. The Premiership has suspense (will Psycho Pearce lose all his hair by March?), big names (Ruud Van Nistelrooy = 17 characters), glitzy technical prowess (the new floodlights at the Reebok stadium are sensational).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 11:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

Most leagues have big beast who win things, but most leagues have teams who can have great seasons and win things , and can certainly upset the direction of the big title through .

In Italy, Roma and Nazio are traditionally weaker than Milan or Juve, but can occasionally win the thing, and can beat those teams on their day. IN Germany, Bayern are usually there or thereabouts, but they lose matches, and have several rivals and always have. There's a steady stream of challengers over the years - Gladbach, Hamburg, Bremen, Cologne, Schalke, Dortmund etc. In Spain, Depor and Valencia are decent teams, and the big two don't get their own way.

The Premiership is actually worse than the SPL. The SPL has games where the result is not in doubt, loike here. But the problem with games between, say Killie and Motherwell is not that the result is predictable but that no-one gives a shit. They usually try to play football though. Too many games here, where the result is in doubt, still have shite football.

And then there's the sheer jaw dropping tedium of the hype. Where Sky can bill the game between Chelsea and Arsenal - in advance of kick-off - as having been a classic. Really? To quote Brendan Burns, it makes me want to shit blood out of my eyes. I can't buy into this utter bollocks about best league in the world when the markers of a great league are just not present. You've qualified 'best' to 'exciting' but even that I struggle to see. What's exciting about the premiership tomorrow? What's fun about it? It's stadium where the self-created culture is being drowned out by a screaming tannoy announcer, where everyone must get in their regimented seat, where music replaces celebratory cheering and chanting, where crowds get older and duller because prices get higher and higher, where players cast as demigods have average games and get paid obscene amounts for it and kick some back to a retinue of moneygrabbing hangers on, where the press and media cynically avoid anything that might take the gloss of, as they're part of the very beast they should be exercising critical distance from. It's irredeemably awful.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think it's the really poor quality dull-as-fucking-ditchwater football played by teams outside the Top 6 (with a few exceptions) that I object too, in what Hell would anyone want to watch any game involving Middlesborough?. There should only be 16 teams in the League, get rid of the chaff

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

There's more teams in England and more big money places (UEFA CUp etc.) up for grabs, so I don't think this holds up. There might be a particular game between Kilmarnock and Motherwell which proved to be more exciting than another particular game between Middlesbrough and Man City, but the same is true in reverse at another time. You can't measure quality or excitement in this way surely, it's too speculative.

Where Sky can bill the game between Chelsea and Arsenal - in advance of kick-off - as having been a classic.

Why were you watching this anyway? Sky pre-match build-up is always annoying crap, and this goes for Auld Firm games and Barca vs Real as much as anything else.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think quality wise, sure, the Prem isn't the best in the world. But for entertainment I do find it the best. Though actually I'd make a case for the CL as being about the most entertaining competition these days, perhaps opening another can of worms!

I don't know if that's due to mass advertising and it being kind of in your face 24/7 but I know I seldom if ever have enjoyed Italian or Spanish football, Italian in particular reminds me of being bored out of mind on Sundays watching Channel 4.

This Premiership season may not have been thrilling so far, but there still are good games. It is kind of sickening that Chelsea seem such a shoe in to win it but it used to be like that with Man U anyhow, surely it was the same with Liverpool in the 70s and 80s?

Correct me if you are actually saying the Premiership has been shit for 30 years!

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

One difference could be that a Chelsea are boring team to watch and Liverpool and Man Utd (and Arsenal) weren't

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

**And then there's the sheer jaw dropping tedium of the hype. Where Sky can bill the game between Chelsea and Arsenal - in advance of kick-off - as having been a classic. Really? To quote Brendan Burns, it makes me want to shit blood out of my eyes. I can't buy into this utter bollocks about best league in the world when the markers of a great league are just not present. You've qualified 'best' to 'exciting' but even that I struggle to see. What's exciting about the premiership tomorrow? What's fun about it? It's stadium where the self-created culture is being drowned out by a screaming tannoy announcer, where everyone must get in their regimented seat, where music replaces celebratory cheering and chanting, where crowds get older and duller because prices get higher and higher, where players cast as demigods have average games and get paid obscene amounts for it and kick some back to a retinue of moneygrabbing hangers on, where the press and media cynically avoid anything that might take the gloss of, as they're part of the very beast they should be exercising critical distance from. It's irredeemably awful. **

Yes,

**in what Hell would anyone want to watch any game involving Middlesborough?.**

Or Bolton. And I'd rather have my eyes gouged out with hot knives than have to watch a Blackburn game. (Although I have sympathy with Andy Todd's one man campaign to bring a bit of old-skool guileless thuggery back into the game a la Mark Dennis).

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

Dave its all very well you criticising negative tactics against the top teams but didn't everyone get very excited when Greece won Euro2004? Thought so...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

(x-post)I meant "Yes!" not "Yes," I was agreeing with Dave B (again).

Greece - well it's nice to see an outsider win. Maybe it's too much to hope that they'll play football too.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

Name one way in which they didn't "play football" and I'll give you a prize.

Thay might not have played the kind of football *you* like, I'll grant.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

Would I rather watch Greece than Middlesbrough, Bolton, Blackburn Rovers, West Brom etc etc etc? What do you think?

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

One difference could be that a Chelsea are boring team to watch and Liverpool and Man Utd (and Arsenal) weren't

Even against Barcelona and Bayern Munich last season?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

Around me no-one was particularly pleased to see Greece win.

― Baaderonixx and the hedonistic gluttons (baaderonixx), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

but didn't everyone get very excited when Greece won Euro2004?

I for one was mortified ;)

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

Greece vs England would be pretty tedious to watch right now presumably.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

Greece are even worse than England at the moment

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

x-post Tim - yes, they did play football, you're right. It wasn't scintillating, but good on 'em, they won.

x-post Dada - me too.

I think Charlton play some good stuff.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

I was delighted when Greece won, but 90 minutes of heroic defending to get through a tricky quarter- or semi-final is for me a different proposition to 90 minutes of cautiously balanced play to decide who is 13th or 12th in a league.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

Where Sky can bill the game between Chelsea and Arsenal - in advance of kick-off - as having been a classic. Really?... What's exciting about the premiership tomorrow?

Charlton are going to beat Chelsea 4-3, with three goals in the last five minutes. It's going to be quite a stormer, and the other games won't be bad either. I know because a Sky announcer told me so.

This is actually turning into taking side: The Premiership is not exciting vs. No games in the Premiership are exciting - clearly not one and the same thing.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

TEH PREMIERSHIP IS DEAD

― manner the whirled, Friday, 16 September 2005 12:59 (7 years ago)