What are you going to do if McCain wins?

I will try to convince Scott to come with me and the kids back to the Netherlands. Will you riot in the streets? Act natural? Carry on as you always have? How would a McCain victory affect you?

Well, I hear they got plenty of field pickin' jobs in Californay that could offer a man a good opportunity if he's got a mind to put in some work.

This is a dumb non american question but surely anything's better than Bush?

Not that him winning would be that good.. but even Al Franken (used to at least) like McCain. Which confuses me, tbh.

:/

everyone in the american media used to like mccain, 5 years ago, because he spent every waking moment fellating each and every one of them personally in his bus.

Pretty much.

anyway, it's not about "anything's better than bush" (which i'm not sure is true--i mean, at least the bush administration is now admitting iraq was maybe not the greatest idea, more than mccain is willing to admit), it's about the fact that there is one candidate so clearly better and the only reason anyone in this horrible country is still considering mccain/palin is because omg scary black man, and a mccain win would indicate something is so fundamentally fucked in america that it might not be worth trying to save this hole.

my answer to the question btw is castro's cuba! my sister and i just discussed it last night. renouncing seems fun!!

I refuse to entertain the idea.

Achieving Alcoholism: How To

Ally 1,000% OTM ... sadly ;_;

also, Dutch is not too difficult to pick up if english is your native language and you have a good understanding of German -- yes?!?

the only reason anyone in this horrible country is still considering mccain/palin is because omg scary black man

Hahaha. Um, no.

The Netherlands seems like my kind of place.

Srsly. I'll go down with the ship.

I'll wait it out for 4 years. McCain will be greeted with a Democratic Senate and Democratic Congress.

Now if McCain drops dead after he wins... well, let's not talk about that.

SECRET MUSLIM NUDE PALIN FOETUS HAIRPLUG TORTURE BLOWJOB SEXY PHOTOS MILF

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2253/2118657102_5d04e1a617_o.jpg

If McCain wins, the only thing I can do is hope that he catches Bin Laden and kills all of Al Qaeda and terrorists so that war wont have to be an issue at the next presidential debate. Oh wait that's impossible.

http://sr3085.k12.sd.us/Events/Herbert%20Hoover.jpg

It doesn't exactly suggest America is all "omg scary black man" so much as they continue to remain in cultural bunker mode. If McCain (i.e. incumbent party) wins with America's ground conditions being what they are, it will so fly in the face of election physics that it will be far more dispiriting than a nation simply refusing to switch ponies in wartime, et al.

I'll probably being moving abroad in the next few years anyway, but McCain winning would certainly encourage that decision.

Basically it wouldn't change much for me, because I've already kind of lost faith in this country. I live 3,000 miles from the mainland, which is a necessary buffer.

I realize my attitude is stupidly cynical, but I just don't believe much in the process and think American society is fundamentally fucked up no matter who wins.

be moving that is

doesn't the mayan caledar end in 2012 anyway?

yeah, but will it be a weather disaster.. I forget... what kind of disaster did the mayan's predict?

the only reason anyone in this horrible country is still considering mccain/palin is because omg scary black man

Wow, the US is so incredibly backward in so many respects. I feel sorry for you all, having to deal with shit like that.

fwiw if Howard got back in here last year I would have left the country.

Wow, the US is so incredibly backward in so many respects. I feel sorry for you all, having to deal with shit like that.

I won't pretend to know the first thing about Australian society, but how many Aboriginal PMs you guys had so far?

let him have it, super cub.

Settle Super Cub, it's not an attack on you ffs.

If McCain wins, I at least won't spend 3 days in bed mostly crying, like I did when Bush won second term 2k4 election.

sorry Autumn. I got a little carried away.

xpost

SC makes a good point though, Adam, we're in no positon to be all patronising abt people not liking obama for being black when blacks in our country are treated like complete shit.

That was a muddled sentence but you know.

Europe calls America racist ... then they burn down huge gypsy camps raping and murdering innocent people all under the apathy of their own governmentsw. . A ltitle reminiscent of what people came to America to escape from?

SC makes a good point though, Adam, we're in no positon to be all patronising abt people not liking obama for being black when blacks in our country are treated like complete shit.

― Trayce, Sunday, 28 September 2008 14:51 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That's very true, but I get the sense the proportion of Australians against that kind of behaviour is far smaller than the vast chunk of Americans (i.e. states and states and states) who voted for Bush last time.

(not that Aus is void of hyperreligious screaming fuckwits, it just seems more muted here)

people voted for Bush for more than just he was some chum crum ijhh

I already know what I'm going to be doing for election night... making homemade mac & cheese and drinking a lot of champagne. This has become a tradition of sorts for election night.

If McCain loses: hooray mac & cheese and drinking! If McCain wins: hooray comfort food and early alcohol oblivion.

Ha! We do the same with homemade beef pot pies and scotch.

I'm just glad that this year I'll have a full supply of meds, so that I don't lapse into full blown depression the day after like last time.

If McCain wins, I'm just gonna hope that he stays alive for the next 4/8 years.

This McCain bloke is so not going to win.

At least Bush only invaded small countries without nuclear weapons. Ever since McCain took his position on Georgia I've been scared to death of a McCain presidency.

You know what's unfair? That NYC is the prime target for terrorism/nuclear weapons. If McCain wins and picks a fit with Russia, we're gonna be the ones bombed, even though we voted against him. How come no one ever fucking attacks fucking Tennessee?

i will be scared if mccain wins. worried.

in a nuclear war, everywhere gets attacked, or at least eventually dies of radiation sickness/nuclear winter. the upside to this, as that one cop in watchmen put it, is that "no motherfucker is crazy enough" to start it.

xpost

if mccain gets in, (thanks racists) i'll be very depreessed indeed, and i'm a britisher.

although the fact that we're even discussing the possibility of a nuke war with russia in 2008 is super-fucking depressing and frustrating.

True!

I'm told I qualify for dual citizenship at this point, but I reserve the right to return to this question on Friday morning. Palin might be all the vaccination we need against this happening; most of her admirers are just doing this admiring to needle the liberals they know. I have a feeling there are a lot of "working people" who will not admit to an Obama vote before they go to their polling station, but who will vote for him, purely because they have loud jerk 'nObama'-type friends.

invading russia and/or iran is a bad idea for about 10,000 other reasons that dont have to do with nuclear weapons, which are pretty unlikely to be used

I've heard that the USA doesn't like dual citizenship and is liable to revoke the citizenship of people who do it - does this happen?

xpost

I know a ton of people (20 or more) with dual citizenship between US and Israel, and I've never heard of it being revoked.

heh I looked it up and it seems my information was almost 20 years out of date and the law was changed in 1990. n/m

lol wow, this thread

That's very true, but I get the sense the proportion of Australians against that kind of behaviour is far smaller than the vast chunk of Americans (i.e. states and states and states) who voted for Bush last time.

Bush was only president for eight years. Didn't you all first elect John Howard in the early 50s?

And though race may be a factor, I think Obama's got more against him from the usual mouth-breathing base of idiots as well.

He's a liberal, he's pro-choice, he's inexperienced, he doesn't want to fight 9/11 in Iraq...

I'm moving to Prague around the New Year and don't really know if I'll ever want to move back, but if McCain wins iI'll definitely have to stay away for a while.

If McCain wins, the only thing I can do is hope that he catches Bin Laden and kills all of Al Qaeda and terrorists so that war wont have to be an issue at the next presidential debate. Oh wait that's impossible.

― CaptainLorax, Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:00 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Unless they unleash that super-secret futuristic weapon I keep hearing about. Does anyone know any conspiracies about this? I heard some ex-military personnel talk about it on the radio last week. My dad thinks it's terrorist-seeking robot technology. Like, for real.

I went out to where my folks live today, in the metro Atlanta area, hours before a huge UGA/Alabama football game, and ALL the rednecks were out flying their Budweiser-machismo flags. I realized if George W. Bush was running again there is probably a good chance he would win. America IS that stupid.

Unless they unleash that super-secret futuristic weapon I keep hearing about. Does anyone know any conspiracies about this? I heard some ex-military personnel talk about it on the radio last week.

yeah, i've heard a couple of people talking about this. some sort of super-drone. probs bullshit, but they kept the stealth bomber under wraps long enough.

Look, you fleeing drama queens: If you lived thru 8 years of fucking BUSH policies, what's so bad about the concept of 4 more of similar policies? I mean, hell, you should have already left the US in 2000.

At least McCain won't have the same kinda rubber-stamp congress Bush did for 6 years.

Um, eight years, buddy.

the stakes seem to be getting higher. and for the record my departure is entirely personal has nothing to do with US politics.
xxp

Also, as bad as Bush was, I was never worried that he'd start a war with another nuclear power.

If McCain wins, I'll do what I did after the last two elections: say "I told you so", completely joylessly.

bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran. What's not to like?

I'm sure this reveals my own naivete more than anything else, but a friend and I were seriously researching the requirements for emigration to Canada.

The problem with that, of course, is that we'd be sharing a land boundary with Alaska.

uh douchebags, mccain and republicans suck and all but WTF with this "all republicans are racists" and equating bush winning elections with the majority of americans being racist bullshit?

also lol at anyone claiming they're going to move overseas if mccain wins

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.asp

that is some serious 2004 nonsense

In my mind, one of the best things about the Obama campaign is the participation of huge numbers of citizens across the country, who have been donating money, canvassing, hosting debate parties, calling independent voters, wearing pins, protesting palin, participating in caucuses & discussions, etc. I hope that whether or not Obama wins, that level of civic participation continues. If it does, I think whoever the president is will have to be more accountable to the country, in a way that could (in an ideal world, I guess) really transform how politics works here.

And that could happen--potentially--whether he wins or not. As long as everyone doesn't move to Sweden or whatever.

And why go now when I didn't before? Easy. In 2000 I was 14 years old. In 2004 I had four years of school to finish, horrified as I was at the prospect of doing it in an America from which I was so obviously alienated. "Worst case scenario," I told myself, "this'll all be over in four years."

Now, with the economy on the brink and a septugenarian carpet bomber who might be replaced by an embarrassing militant fundamentalist country bumpkin, "worst case scenario" is a whole lot scarier.

Suggest Ban

Like, that is what I will do

i'm really tempted to go through this thread and suggest ban anyone who claimed they will leave the u.s. if mccain wins

i'd have to just hope for the best. the good thing about the US is that it's so big that generally speaking, big political changes take a long time to filter through the country. states still have a lot of rights and I live in California. it seems to me that other countries radically change their governments pretty quickly (particularly in europe, but even canada), the entire country can be prone to waves of nationalistic fervor that puts ultra right wing people in place; obviously that kind of happens here but our government, in theory, has enough branches that things just get mired down for ages. If the entire economy collapses, then I think that will have global implications, so I can't, right now, think of somewhere BETTER to live. McCain could well prove me wrong; eight years WAS a long time and they DID radically change a lot of things in the US.

I am coming to the U.S. whoever wins. It is still a shining beacon on the hill and also my job will be there and the commute would be too long.

2000 I was 14 years old. In 2004 I had four years of school to finish, horrified as I was at the prospect of doing it in an America from which I was so obviously alienated.

It's called being eighteen years old.

I'll buy that.

uh douchebags, mccain and republicans suck and all but WTF with this "all republicans are racists" and equating bush winning elections with the majority of americans being racist bullshit?

also lol at anyone claiming they're going to move overseas if mccain wins

― metametadata (n/a), Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:45 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

And I will own up to the fact that it's highly unlikely, McCain victory or no, that I'm moving to Canada.

Shocking, right?

Give me a few days to feel hopeless, then I'm back in it.

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb Iran = we start bombing Russia in 5 minutes, for those with short memories.

I will be as drunk as a skunk on election night, hoping that the night turns into a party instead of the most depressing day of 2008.

thanks for bailing guys - glad to see you won't be here to vote for the good guys in 2012!

I will move to the West Side

thanks for bailing guys - glad to see you won't be here to vote for the good guys in 2012!

this is fucking idiocy and you know it. i'm not moving to ohio or some other shit fest where my vote would, you know, matter in our current electoral college system, so why bother? if the country is so soundly fucked that a majority of ppl would rather see a crazy old white senile be in office than an "arab" black man, then hell, let them have it! also i don't buy into the "good guys" argument -- you have no fucking idea who is going to be running in 2012, and i'm not dumb enough to buy into the democrat = good republican = evil bullshit that's been pressed into the minds of under-30 liberals for the past 20 years.

but thanks for the guilt trip! your vote totally matters! yeah!

i mean sorry to be a bitch but grow up.

I wasn't 100% serious ally

sarcasm doesn't work over the internet

Only 97%.

Add 3 or 4 smilies next time crutis.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.asp

I just want to make clear that I don't "buy into the democrat = good republican = evil bullshit that's been pressed into the minds of under-30 liberals for the past 20 years."

I'm just too young & inexperienced to lead this country ;_;

i'm not someone who would've even considered moving to canada (like at all in general, no offense canada, but specifically in the context of the previous elections) but i know a lot about mccain and now you all do too--if he wins over barack obama then this country is fucked. not because of what MCCAIN will do but because of what it says about this country, it proves everyone right. i've never been much of a patriot, being a communist from new york and all that, and i've always wanted to move to the carribbean so here is my perfect chance.

xpost yeah curtis sorry i'm not being 100% serious towards you either (when i say "grow up" in a post i'm usually not being totally serious) but there's a couple other ppl on this thread with same sentiment but probably serious so i'm just going to lay it out there. fuck 'em! y'all in dc or illinois or the northeast, if you seriously think that leaving is a bad idea, go move to a swing state! do it do it do it make your vote count!

when i say "grow up" in a post i'm usually not being totally serious

i live in berkeley, I'm just gonna stay here

if mccain wins, they'll probably try to secede from the Union or some shit

can I get a berkeley green card

toronto.craigslist.org/w4m

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/w4m/858385836.html

^^ if this doesn't get you "north of the border" I don't know what will

why would you do that to me crutis i thought we was fam

i've been looking for a reason to move back to italy so i'm about 30-40% certain i will if mccain wins, which he wont

uh douchebags, mccain and republicans suck and all but WTF with this "all republicans are racists" and equating bush winning elections with the majority of americans being racist bullshit?

also lol at anyone claiming they're going to move overseas if mccain wins

― metametadata (n/a), Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:45 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

― cankles, Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:58 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in the unlikely event.. though there is still time for things to change again before november..

try to stop a bunch of people from jumping out windows, try to stop a good friend & her husband from leaving the country (she is from eastern europe, doesn't have her citizenship yet - she was pretty adamant and I believe would actually do it)

i certainly do not believe all republicans are racist.

i may qualify for british citizenship (mom still being a British citizen and all), but i wouldn't move to the UK if mccain wins b/c any bad shit that happens to the U.S. b/c of McCain will most likely also happen to the U.K. given the tendency of British prime ministers to act as lapdogs to whomever is in the White House. also, i am much more concerned about an economic armageddon (which, you know, is kinda happening NOW what with Lehman Bros and WaMu and shit) than a military/nuclear one and the british economy is just as fucked as the american economy (e.g., the london real estate market is even MORE crazy unaffordable fucked-up than anything over here).

shrug

*plop*

Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiz!

(sorry, had to)

as for the "moving to a swing state" argument -- i've been working O/T to convince all relatives still living in PA to vote Obama. esp. my younger sister who 4 years ago swore up-and-down that she was voting for Kerry and then turned around and voted for Dubya.

i suppose in a year or so, i could ask another good friend to try and hook me up with a job in brussels..

dc economy probably not going as much into the shitbin as other metro areas, but .. i am plenty worried regardless of who gets elected

if he wins over barack obama then this country is fucked. not because of what MCCAIN will do but because of what it says about this country

i agree wholeheartedly with this, not because of "lol racists" but because if american voters are willing to digest and ignore flat-out lies at a rate with which we've never seen before, then we've set a precedent of never ever being told anything close to the truth from this administration and in elections following it

this administration= a potential mccain administration

i would consider moving to toronto or vancouver, at least before mccain institutes a draft

Our people's ability to digest and ignore flat-out lies is the bedrock upon which this great nation was built.

well, plenty of people believed the horsesh!t the swift vets put out last time around. my personal view is that there is so much out there, cable news, talk radio, internet, total information overload, people tend to filter it according to gut instincts because they don't trust any source to present objective facts. news organizations simply report on what was said by a campaign without doing any fact checking, give free airtime to campaign ads by featuring them as news.. it becomes real easy to only hear what you want to hear. this goes for both sides imho.

OTM^^

McCain is a) not going to win, and b) possibly worse than Bush, but would have to work with a Dem Congress. I think leaving the US is just as dumb negative-identity-branding as being too cool to vote for a Dem.

i'm not dumb enough to buy into the democrat = good republican = evil bullshit that's been pressed into the minds of under-30 liberals for the past 20 years.

lol

xp - people tend to filter it according to gut instincts what everyone else around them is doing

i agree wholeheartedly with this, not because of "lol racists" but because if american voters are willing to digest and ignore flat-out lies at a rate with which we've never seen before

=

In 2004 I had four years of school to finish, horrified as I was at the prospect of doing it in an America from which I was so obviously alienated.

McCain is a) not going to win, and b) possibly worse than Bush, but would have to work with a Dem Congress. I think leaving the US is just as dumb negative-identity-branding as being too cool to vote for a Dem.

OTM. Leaving the country b/c you're not happy with the President is like voting for Sun Ra in a district that leans heavily Obama. But it doesn't matter b/c there is no way McCain is going to win.

Guys fwiw any impulse I have towards leaving has less to do with "omg a Republican president" and more to do with this particular deregulating president, his war drive, and my creeping dread about the nonpartisan collapse of the American Empire and subsequent bread lines.

You're, what, twenty-one? Wait till you start dealing with credit card debt, college loans, and mortgages.

I'm there already at 22, but your point is understood.

I've got significant school loan & CC debt and I frequently worry about the looming increases in my expenses (grad school, higher rent in whatever city I move to), but they don't give me nightmares like that other stuff does.

My wife was recently talking to me about fleeing because of the oncoming economic collapse. Usually, she's a pretty smart cookie, but I had to disabuse her of that bullshit right away. The problem, I think, is that she listens to this echo chamber of liberal talk radio & blogs, etc., and to be honest, liberals (of which I'm one) tend to be the worst chicken littles.

My point here is that it's obviously not just her trapped in that echo chamber.

fuck this, there is no way in hell that I or any of you other sane people are going to let these deluded motherfuckers wreck the world anymore.

i'm thinking that after last week, one of the only ways that mccain could (gulp) win, would necessitate the left's (or certain elements of th'left) paranoid fantasies of iran fabricated-attack shenanigans coming to pass at some point in the next few weeks...but even if something like that were to happen, i take encouragement from the general public's response to the initial bailout proposal earlier this week-- to quote gdubya, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

won't get fooled again -- The Who

Cross your fingers and hope President Obama doesn't order missiles into Pakistan, or consider Iran an "existential" threat to Israel.

you are smarter than Barack Obama, Al

big hoos accept that you are young ok

it's a mitzvah

gabbneb don't even joke about there being one person on the planet who is smarter than Obama, some things are sacred ok

guys mccain is not going to win, i mean his own party doesn't even like him

but they like power and he's their only ticket to punch

"My party, right or wrong...."

xposts
I know, I guess it was a moment where Bush's attempt at trying to parrot homespun folk wisdom collided with flashbacks from his wild partying days.

paranoid fantasies of iran fabricated-attack shenanigans coming to pass at some point in the next few weeks

OTM. this is a real concern. hardliners in iran preferring mccain get elected because diplomacy is going to threaten their own power

http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintEdition/Article.aspx?id=851953

A tense standoff has developed in waters off Somalia over an Iranian merchant ship laden with a mysterious cargo that was hijacked by pirates.

Somali pirates suffered skin burns, lost hair and fell gravely ill “within days” of boarding the MV Iran Deyanat. Some of them died.

sounds like a fluke http://www.geocities.com/area51/hollow/5126/fluke2.jpg

hardliners in iran preferring mccain get elected because diplomacy is going to threaten their own power

ABSOLUTEMENT.

if he wins over barack obama then this country is fucked. not because of what MCCAIN will do but because of what it says about this country, it proves everyone right.

^^^^

what it says about this country, it proves everyone right.

This is the hopeless feeling I got after 2004. I'm hoping November will redeem it somewhat.

I got that. FWIW what has bothered me over the past four years is the strong upturn in incidents of people being absolutely horrible to Americans for bigot reasons. That will be as NOTHING if Palin gets anywhere near the nuke codes.

people, Sarah Palin is not going to be living on Massachusetts Avenue any time soon. She's going to lose the election and then go back to Alaska.

she might stop at Disneyland on the way, tho

I want to belEEEEVE!

if mccain wins, i may be disturbed enough by what that says about the country to actually try volunteering or working in some kind of socially useful capacity for the sake of a tiny, tiny counterbalance.

i don't really understand why this would compel anyone to go abroad unless they were already lukewarm on livin in America (which sounds like it's the case for some of you). but I don't think it says anything special abt America if McCain gets elected either? i mean, why is that so upsetting to yall? this isn't weimar germany, what the fuck would you be fleeing exactly? you all sound like a bunch of babies imo

^^^^^^^

now that cankles has weighed in, I think this thread is closed.

http://www.michaeltyler.co.uk/uploaded_images/thats-all-folks-711767.jpg

stfu BIG HOOS aka the steendriver

wakka wakka bitch

i'm not sure what people would expect to find anywhere else in terms of progressive folks + a multicultural society, i think what we have here is about as close as it gets tbh, along with some other countries that may be around the same level.

cankles is right, at least stick around and try to sort shit out, rather than be a curious mix of self-loathing and ultra-defensive while letting the bastards win

lol yeah also do you guys really want to flee and leave this country and it's massive arsenal in the hands of those you are hating on? i mean i wouldn't.

now that LJ has weighed in, I think this thread is closed.

Er, I think one of the main reasons it's upsetting to some people is that the choice of a U.S. president has a massive impact on the well-being of the rest of the world, whether that's 100,000 Iraqi lives needlessly lost and millions more forced into migration, or a idiotic energy policy that's contributing to (tens of, hundreds of?) millions more lives lost in the next century. As much as you want to be able to blame one person or one administration or one party, we all pay taxes here to support the awful things that our government does, so we're all implicated in this to some degree. I'm not on the Leave the Country if McCain is Elected team, but I don't see anything wrong with wanting to remove yourself from any association with the modern day Neros.

hi caek!

I do agree that it makes more sense to try to influence things from an oppositional perspective than to just abandon the country...not so much because it affects what the government does as because that's where social change comes from, which is what's going to determine future presidents.

i'm too old to move to Dutchland. plus, i am never moving my records again.

http://www.mvmagazine.com/2007/september-october/images/free_marthas_vineyard.gif

"In 1977, Martha's Vineyard tried to secede from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (it also tried to secede from the United States and become an independent nation) along with the island of Nantucket."

(we gotta start working on this again.)

Bush was only president for eight years. Didn't you all first elect John Howard in the early 50s?

― ☑ (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 29 September 2008 00:05 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Bush would never have received a first term here, let alone four.

I agree that Howard getting four terms is a shithouse reflection on this country btw. I actually hated living here for some years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_New_England I like the idea of having a fucking pine tree on the flag.

As much as you want to be able to blame one person or one administration or one party, we all pay taxes here to support the awful things that our government does, so we're all implicated in this to some degree. I'm not on the Leave the Country if McCain is Elected team, but I don't see anything wrong with wanting to remove yourself from any association with the modern day Neros.

this is the part that grates me. it's like ppl are just satisfying the part of themselves that has a pathological need to be RIGHT about everything. the democratic process resolves itself in a way that produces the most unsavory possible outcome, yr immediate impulse/reaction is to want to distance yrself from association w/tha EVIL EMPIRE => it's about preserving your IDENTITY of being someone who cares about, like, social justice and shit. and hey, that's a perfectly legitimate life decision for anyone to make and i wouldn't want to suggest otherwise - but the way some ppl package it as being abt like, OH I AM SO TORMENTED BY THA WOES OF THA WORLD~~, that's horseshit and it makes me bristle with its fucken narcissism.

ps. australia's a shithole, how dare u fucken rubes cast aspersions on this great nation~~~

I'm voting for McCain wtf!!?

uh douchebags, mccain and republicans suck and all but WTF with this "all republicans are racists" and equating bush winning elections with the majority of americans being racist bullshit?

Supporting racism of that magnitude IS racism. There really is no excuse for it.

cankles: um, wtf?

autumn almanac u should probably do a little bit a reading before you trust the word of some dude on the internet that the reason mccain will win is because americans are racist

yr immediate impulse/reaction is to want to distance yrself from association w/tha EVIL EMPIRE

It's more immediate and admittedly unreasonable impulse to distance myself from a country whose infrastructure & economy are failing.

And the majority of whose citizens are choosing a candidate who will speed that process.

Of course the more considered reaction is "stay and fight."

this is the part that grates me. it's like ppl are just satisfying the part of themselves that has a pathological need to be RIGHT about everything. the democratic process resolves itself in a way that produces the most unsavory possible outcome, yr immediate impulse/reaction is to want to distance yrself from association w/tha EVIL EMPIRE => it's about preserving your IDENTITY of being someone who cares about, like, social justice and shit. and hey, that's a perfectly legitimate life decision for anyone to make and i wouldn't want to suggest otherwise - but the way some ppl package it as being abt like, OH I AM SO TORMENTED BY THA WOES OF THA WORLD~~, that's horseshit and it makes me bristle with its fucken narcissism.

ps. australia's a shithole, how dare u fucken rubes cast aspersions on this great nation~~~

Jeez, man.

this is the part that grates me. it's like ppl are just satisfying the part of themselves that has a pathological need to be RIGHT about everything.

The most OTM sentences I've read today.

autumn almanac u should probably do a little bit a reading before you trust the word of some dude on the internet that the reason mccain will win is because americans are racist

― Barack HUSSEIN Obama (max), Monday, 29 September 2008 07:41 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

The vast amount of US political news that is shoved down our throats in utter disproportion to literally every other foreign country in the world makes me eminently qualified to discuss the racist motives of your current and potential Republican shitheads leaders.

a curious mix of self-loathing and ultra-defensive

yay elections :)

The vast amount of US political news that is shoved down our throats in utter disproportion to literally every other foreign country in the world makes me eminently qualified to discuss the racist motives of your current and potential Republican shitheads leaders.

are you the Manchurian candidate?

dog u were on a thread the other day ASKING SOMEONE WHEN THE ELECTION WAS so i think youre eminently qualified to stfu

At what point do we bring Murdoch into this, if at all? xpost

have you ever been to america, AA?

dinglol ate my baby

dog u were on a thread the other day ASKING SOMEONE WHEN THE ELECTION WAS so i think youre eminently qualified to stfu

― Barack HUSSEIN Obama (max), Monday, 29 September 2008 07:52 (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Curiously the one piece of US election news that we're not getting is the date of the election.

actually idk if i really wanna go down this road, cuz most of america is at least kinda racist (including myself rofl). my point is just - i've heard a lot of horror stories from australians and from foreigners visiting australia, about the appalling level of racism down there. but i don't actually think i have any kind of real perspective on what it's really like there as far as the racialist climate. since u clearly learned about america from watching LOST, mb u could reserve judgement just a lil too~

cankles, what you've heard about is probably (a) the public support for a subhuman asylum-seeker policy and (b) treatment of indigenous people, which is mostly isolated to rural pockets. It's the middle-class passive armchair racism (against the Middle East and Asia, mainly) that kept our conservative wankpocket in power for 12 years.

btw I don't watch Lost because nothing happens.

good grief, AA

if mccain wins i will shrug my shoulders, be disappointed about it for a while, and then return to doing the same things i did every day before the election

also, in general people, plz to stop equating mccain votes with votes for racism, that shit is just stupid.

ugh @ racism in australia only happens in the rural parts
u sound like a nyer

cankles, what you've heard about is probably (a) the public support for a subhuman asylum-seeker policy and (b) treatment of indigenous people, which is mostly isolated to rural pockets. It's the middle-class passive armchair racism (against the Middle East and Asia, mainly) that kept our conservative wankpocket in power for 12 years.

― You should be an artist, in in your shower. (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, September 28, 2008 6:03 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark

or this lol http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Violence_at_Cronulla_Beach_as_5000_people_gather

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1436/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1436R-07139.jpg

Great thread

I didn't say that level of racism doesn't exist here. I mean, god, we only just kicked out the most racist PM we've had in a very long time, after impossibly being voted in four times. Cronulla was a freak occurrence, though; events of that scale are very rare here, and we hate what it does to our image internationally.

Aaaaaaaanyway, to clear things up, I don't assert that McCain suporters are necessarily racist, if only because we can't actually quantify his actions as a US president unless he gets to be one. The wording of 1-2 of my posts upthread could be interpreted otherwise (I just went back and looked), and I apologise for that. However, I stand by the argument that supporting a racist is a racist act.

Good post

Megadittoes, buddy

Events are rare, fair enough, but when the hell has something like that happened in the US? 1962*?
*inter-minority rioting does not count (hasids v. black dudes, hasids v. other different jewishy beardos, ricans v. muslims, etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Racism_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes <-- dannng

I am failing to see what relevance 14 rapists in 2000 have to do with any part of this thread.

btw anyone who's prepared to sift through last year's Aus general elections thread(s) will see first-hand my disgust at this country.

tempting...

after last week I'm thinking he's gonna lose

:)

If McCain wins, I'm gonna be drunk. If Obama wins, I'm gonna be drunk. I can't lose.

and yeah, whatever Elvis Telecom said about mac and cheese...I'm down with that big time.

There needs to be some kind of party with alcohol. Yeah.

also, in general people, plz to stop equating mccain votes with votes for racism, that shit is just stupid.

I equate McCain votes with mental deficiency.

mccain is one of the least "racist" republicans I can think of. dude isn't strom thurmond or some shit.

That's one of the most conditional sentences I've ever read. While not a name-caller or the most egregious 'blamer' in his party, McCain was anti-MLK Day.

http://whitehouser.com/elections/revisiting-john-mccains-hatred-towards-gooks/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7641441.stm

Now there's a vote for a racist. Europe, you've outdone our crazy yet again.

No wait, Europeans are incapable of racism because they are the purest, cleanest good on earth. All hail our rightful European masters!

shut up

Nah

ladies and gentlemen, burt stanton...

one smart cookie

lol mccain is the least racist in the obvious republicans-hate-black-people sense but he is probably (definitely) the most racist in the veterans-hate-basically-all-people-of-asian-descent sense

i forgot about the gooks and mlk day thing, admittedly.

the same things I'll do if Obama wins, as will 98% of you

people who threaten to leave the country are annoying

just go already

I lived abroad for the summer of 1991 and it was awesome; I'd totally do it again as long as my wife could get singing gigs.

hey, dr. morbius otm, what do you know

If McCain wins I will sigh, unsurprised.

Dude McCain calls his captors gooks... He can call them whatever he wants.

Anyway the Racist Republicans meme is that they'll vote for McCain because Obama is black, not because McCain is racist. Gotta keep your ridiculous leaps in logic straight.

There's probably a good defense for McCain calling his CAPTORS whatever he wants, but not everyone who hails from the same quarter of the globe as his captors. Which I think is the essence, the most basic shape of racism, though maybe I'm being naive.

I swear I started this thread last week, not yesterday. Am I demented or is something wrong with the ILX time code?

Late Saturday, possibly?

Dude McCain calls his captors gooks... He can call them whatever he wants.

And people can be offended by what he chooses to call them. GUESS WHAT FREEDOMS WORK BOTH WAYS OMG

if mccain had been downed in somalia black hawk down style would you be cool with him saying "i will hate the niggers as long as i live"?

duh of course he would

There's probably a good defense for McCain calling his CAPTORS whatever he wants, but not everyone who hails from the same quarter of the globe as his captors.

He doesn't do this. wtf???

And people can be offended by what he chooses to call them.

Really? No kidding? Of course they can... doesn't make him racist, and it doesn't have anything to do with "If Obama loses it's because America's racist" bullshit.

i'm gonna knife a hobo

I am moving to the US shortly before the inauguration so can you guys quit worrying and make sure you get the right result.

xp I thought in Somalia they're "Skinnies"...

He doesn't do this. wtf???

That is the point you are not getting; he is attempting to redefine a derogatory blanket term to describe a specific group of individuals and the other people who get called that blanket term (as well as other people who get called blanket terms) are not particularly cool with that.

i completely understand being annoyed at people who emptily threaten expatriatism based on whether another asshole (in a long, long line of assholes) gets elected POTUS. But hey, if you have the means and ways and it was something you'd seriously consider doing anyway, then I'd imagine a McCain victory is as good a time/ incentive as any.

i mean fuck four more years of this asshattery. life's too short.

I had planned to move in 2004 but neither my wife or I could find a job that would take us out of the country.

(also there's a large amount of cowardice in running away from the country considering that enough votes can swing the pendulum back in your direction AND the people on the other side are so other-averse that they will never, ever leave regardless of who's in charge)

fwiw it is pretty hard to leave the US. no one wants us.

(unless you're independently wealthy)

I'm not missing any point. He calls a specific group of torturers and war criminals a specific derogatory term. As long as that's what he's doing, I don't think it's evidence of generic anti-asian racism, and dude gets a pass.

you're right; it's a lot trickier than ppl think. This has some A++ information about a variety of expat destinations & scenarios. but yeah, you've got to really want it. AFAICT, Argentina gives you the most bang for your buck and least amount of hassle re: citizenry.

Key Phrases: immigration website, gestational limit, fetal impairment

He calls a specific group of torturers and war criminals a specific derogatory term.

haha yeah he doesn't hate ALL the gooks, just THOSE gooks. those ones over there. the torturers.

I don't hate ALL those peckerwood cracker motherfuckers, just the slave-owning ones.

If you're a Jewish American, there's one country that would LOVE to have you. They give you cash, tax incentives, hook you up with work - lots of goodies.

oh yeah Israel is SO MUCH BETTER than the US. Love their foreign policy.

tired of living in a racist police state? Maybe you need to move to a different racist police state!

Actually, Israel is much better than the US. They've got some government issues, but the citizens are, on a whole, far more educated and liberal than the US. Obama currently polls very well in Israel (much better than McCain does), and most citizens are looking to end the territorial dispute. Unfortunately, SHOCKA, it's not that simple.

xxxxpost
I left the country because of the first gulf war - I had a "love it or leave it" conversation that really brought into focus that I didn't want to be in the US anymore. Of course there were other reasons, too. I had a green card marriage to a Dutch man, and we used it to get me working papers there. In my case, it's not an empty threat. My old employers there would sponsor me, I think. Problem is getting Scott to come with me. I doubt he'd want to leave. I work as a Dutch translator, so most of my clients are there anyway. I think it would help my children's education to spend some time in Europe. Also, warmongering McCain could potentially be president for 8 years and I have two young sons. If my boys were older and closer to military age, I'd definitely want to leave the country.

haha okay dude calling the US a racist police state is almost a dictionary-worthy example of hyperbole

haha yeah he doesn't hate ALL the gooks, just THOSE gooks. those ones over there. the torturers.

He does hate all the gooks. His torturers are all the gooks.

ok lol

Thanks for the insights, Kerm. Generally I don't come to ILX for my racist apologetics - but thanks.

AFAICT, Argentina gives you the most bang for your buck and least amount of hassle re: citizenry.

this is my backup plan though it's expensive as fuck to fly there. we have family there. and argentina will take anyone, as evidenced by their cache of nazis. I mean, I'm better than a nazi!

devil's advokerm

also, you know, argentina's economy collapses like the US's every few weeks or some shit.

kerm, i'm going to ask you again - if mccain had been shot down in an african country and said he would hate "the niggers" for as long as he lived, would you be okay with that

Dude spent 5 years as POW. He can call his captors anything he fucking wants. This is my position.

My position is fuck you, dumbass.

haha okay dude calling the US a racist police state is almost a dictionary-worthy example of hyperbole

haha yeah sorry I'm kinda cranky today.

He can call his captors anything he fucking wants.

Why is this, exactly? What does being tortured entitle him to call them anything he wants?

Why does*

I mean, being tortured sucks. But what does that have to do with what you call people?

fair enough. but can we say that this might be a pretty good argument against him being our nation's face on the world stage? you know, without being called ungrateful American-hating pricks?

5X-post

Kerm's position is that terms conventionally used to apply to an entire race of people can be applied to a specific subset of said race despite the inherent rhetorical fallacy.

(last part directed more to Mac boosters than Kerm)

xp Now that we've cleared that up....

Actually, Israel is much better than the US. They've got some government issues, but the citizens are, on a whole, far more educated and liberal than the US. Obama currently polls very well in Israel (much better than McCain does), and most citizens are looking to end the territorial dispute. Unfortunately, SHOCKA, it's not that simple.

― Mordy, Monday, September 29, 2008 11:49 AM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark

lol are u just challopsizing or do u really believe this? i mean, it's a desert shithole where you're in constant danger of having the bejeezus bombed out of you, but it's 'better' because you think the ppl in your community have similar values to urs? does the fact that a bunch of ppl in a foreign country sorta like Obama have ANY BEARING on your quality of life?

were McCain's torturers gooks before they tortured him? or was this an honorary appellation that they were awarded afterwards?

I am totally not down with living in a society as highly militarized as Israel. See Joel Shalit's "Jerusalem Calling".

kerm, i don't know if you're playing devil's advocate or if you really are an idiot, but i hope you realize that serious, non-casual racism isn't something people decide on for shits & giggles, it's usually connected to some sort of negative experience. for example, the guys who killed james byrd testified that they had been raped in prison by black inmates, which led to them joining white supremacist gangs for protection - did they have the right to do whatever they wanted to people who happened to be the same race as those prisoners? throwing slurs at an entire race based on the actions of a dozen of them is pretty much the textbook definition of racism, not some bold exception to it

I wouldn't even understand that position tho. I was mugged by three black teenagers two years ago. I didn't start using derogatory terms to JUST REFER TO THOSE THREE PEOPLE. The term is implicitly generalized. Even if you're just referring to your captors (or muggers, as in my case). Not trying to equivocate being mugged to being tortured, but there's a similar thing at play. McCain shouldn't racially derogatory terms against any one of that race. It's the nigger/black man, or kike/jew fallacy ("Not all Jews are kikes!" blah, blah, blah). It's still racism.

Not trying to equivocate being mugged to being tortured, but there's a similar thing at play.

this is fucking stupid stfu

That's a bunch...

So, no Virulent racists hate for spurious reasons?

Kramkoob - fuck you. My point was that having bad things done to you - no matter what they are, isn't a justification for being a racist. And that being a racist against 3 people isn't keeping it specific. It's essentially generalized.

throwing slurs at an entire race based on the actions of a dozen of them is pretty much the textbook definition of racism, not some bold exception to it

I would have said exactly the opposite.

And I had a long post about Israel, but honestly, not a discussion I want to get into right now. I think you guys have some wrong ideas about the country, but that's fine. Fact is, when I've visited it I've been very impressed by the people there. I felt more oppressed by a police state when I visited Italy over the summer. But whatevs.

One guy hiring, picks the white guy and not the asian.

This was not because a black man ran over his canary, or something.

And I had a long post about Israel, but honestly, not a discussion I want to get into right now. I think you guys have some wrong ideas about the country, but that's fine. Fact is, when I've visited it I've been very impressed by the people there. I felt more oppressed by a police state when I visited Italy over the summer. But whatevs.

― Mordy, Monday, September 29, 2008 12:09 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahaha woah italy is pretty fucked up politically but probly the least police-state ive ever felt anywhere

Ladies and Gentlemen - I'm only going to talk to you just for a minute or so this evening. Because...

I have some very sad news for all of you, and I think sad news for all of our fellow citizens, and people who love peace all over the world, and that is that Martin Luther King was shot and was killed tonight in Memphis, Tennessee.

Martin Luther King dedicated his life to love and to justice between fellow human beings. He died in the cause of that effort. In this difficult day, in this difficult time for the United States, it's perhaps well to ask what kind of a nation we are and what direction we want to move in.

For those of you who are black - considering the evidence evidently is that there were white people who were responsible - you can be filled with bitterness, and with hatred, and a desire for revenge.

We can move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization - black people amongst blacks, and white amongst whites, filled with hatred toward one another. Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion and love.

For those of you who are black and are tempted to be filled with hatred and mistrust of the injustice of such an act, against all white people, I would only say that I can also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man.

But we have to make an effort in the United States, we have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond these rather difficult times.

What Are You Going To Do If Israel Wins?

When I was there, there were soldiers all over the streets and we frequently got yelled at for doing stupid shit - like sitting on a sidewalk. XXP

big place, italy.

Venice wasn't a police state...

real talk if i got tortured by blax i would prob be droppin n-bombs too (more than i normally do, anyway), but i wouldn't just be using it wrt my captors. everyone gets it, even tracy morgan!!! iirc mccain only clarified that he was referring to his captors AFTER ppl called him out on his gookisms, i think it's p clear he didnt just mean a handful of slopes in hanoi.

You guys could move to Miami-Dade County; we don't follow the Constitution here.

So to get back to the original question -- besides emigrating, will people riot in the streets if McCain wins? Where will the anger be directed?

People don't get angry – they get sullen.

Acc. to 538, McCain isn't gonna win. So I don't know what people are worried about. Apparently no one has come back from a deficit in the polls this big this late in the game? Except, like, the Giants beat the Patriots last year. So I guess all bets are off.

America goes "tsk" and goes home.

I think part of the price you pay for being a small d democrat is that you've got to have the stomach for it. there will be long stretches, probably more often than not if history is any indication, that the "people" will make stupid hateful decisions. I guess why i grimace when people want to run off to more palatable places politically speaking is that it almost seems like they aren't willing to accept that price.

Hating *race* because *several individuals of that race* abused you == racist.

Hating *several individuals who held you captive for years and tortured you daily* and using *offensive racist epithet* to signify your hatred and disrespect of those individuals == kerm doesn't mind.

If you have evidence of McCain referring to Asians besides his captors as "gooks," or hating Asians in general, then there's your racism.

As far as I'm concerned: Holocaust survivors can call Nazis whatever they want. Freed slaves could call their former owners whatever they want. People who've suffered unimaginably can call their oppressors and torturers whatever they want, and people who share some sliver of identity with those oppressors and want to scold and tut-tut those survivors for their coarseness get to shut the fuck up.

You are all entitled to feel differently. Enjoy.

it's also especially annoying in the USA which is, as far as i can tell, probably trending towards a much more liberal society. fundamentalist backlashes notwithstanding.

Even assuming any of that makes sense, a person could choose not to be a Nazi. Choosing not to be whatever ethnicity your genotype demands is somewhat dicier.

xp. Probably.

No, some people are born Nazi, they can't help it.

Hating *several individuals who held you captive for years and tortured you daily* and using *offensive racist epithet* to signify your hatred and disrespect of those individuals == kerm doesn't mind.

that's cool my dude but why not just call it racism and admit that ur cool w/a little racialism? it's like bein a lil bit country, a lil bit rock n roll~~~

B-b-b-but it ain't. Can't do it, bro.

(PS I seem to have devil's advokermed this thread right off of my Site New Answers page... How'd that happen?)

nm, back now, musta been the glitch.

Don't worry about it, Kerm. Everyone wants to see everything in black and white. And I am SURE that if these posters were tortured they wouldn't have any bad words for their torturers. Just like one said "fuck you dumbass" up there. Nope, can't you see they don't have a temper?

(xpost)

I think part of the price you pay for being a small d democrat is that you've got to have the stomach for it. there will be long stretches, probably more often than not if history is any indication, that the "people" will make stupid hateful decisions. I guess why i grimace when people want to run off to more palatable places politically speaking is that it almost seems like they aren't willing to accept that price.

― ryan, Monday, 29 September 2008 16:18 (1 hour ago) Permalink

This is what I think too. Also, why it is pretty disturbing to hear people say things like "I just wish I could educate people to make voting choices that were better for them!" (FYI: Obama campaign volunteer) or "I don't think people who've never [had a "real job," owned land, served in the military] should vote" (FYI: multiple McCain supporters). Like wow, we'd better change the electoral system so that only people "good enough" to vote like me will have a say, and then it would all be better!

ps these people I am quoting are not crazies on the internet, they are people I have had actual conversations with in the last 3 days.

I don't know, does it make me one of the brain-washed liberals to think that "I just wish I could educate people to make voting choices that were better for them!" is really really OTM? Minus the "I" part, I don't think I should be setting out to educate anyone.

Because shit we make choices that are sucky for us all the time but when it mostly only affects you, that's one thing (hi dere sixth beer etc). I don't really need my drama to affect the rest of the world in an elected way.

how does

"I just wish I could educate people to make voting choices that were better for them!"

=

"we'd better change the electoral system so that only people "good enough" to vote like me will have a say, and then it would all be better!"

I want a parliamentary system already.

and what OTM - there is no "vote like me" implicit in the first statement

dunno about making choices "better for them", but how about making choices backed by facts/knowledge -- obama is not a muslim, iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, etc

Yeah I mean the bar is pretty low here.

Wait wait Maria, OWNED LAND?? Who do you have conversations with, 18th-century zombie noblemen?

The problem with "I just wish I could educate people to make voting choices that were better for them" is about semantics and mentalities, I think -- if you have the attitude that you are condescending to "educate" people about the facts and truths of what they should do, you are lost from the get-go. I often wish people on the left were better at finding the space between that kind of condescension and despair/apathy -- the space where you actually have the desire and opportunity to politely explain to others what you believe (and, even if you don't convince them, at least give those views the face of a reasonable, well-meaning person).

strike voting from that sentence and the american people are happy to eat up people who want to educate them on how to make choices that are better for them - oprah, dr laura, miss manners, joel osteen style prosperity ministries, dr phil, sex advice columns, consumer advocates, etc

lol "eat up people" yall know what i mean

WHO ATE DR LAURA?

damnit xpost

Yeah, I've never seen evidence that American don't like to be edumacated. Style and tone count for a great deal, as nabisco said.

okay major xpost

This was part of a conversation about how the Obama campaign volunteers talks a lot to people who vote Republican based on "social issues" abortion. She thinks they should be voting instead to improve their economic situations, and if they only knew how their votes could materially affect their lives they would change their minds. I think if you're already voting on issues that clearly won't affect your economic situation, it's probably not because you're too uneducated and would just change your mind if you knew more about economics or sociology or whatever, it's probably because you have different priorities. Ones I strongly disagree with, but that still aren't the result of stupidity or ignorance.

And I'm not saying that all these people are saying we need to go make it illegal for stupid or inexperienced people to vote. I'm just bothered by the implication that people who vote differently are doing it because they have some flaw that makes them inferior (it must be lack of education or work/military experience!), and that these people I know in their early 20s who aren't experts in anything themselves are qualified to pass judgment on the other half of the country that way.

...and I should probably get off the crotchety soapbox now, I want to watch this vote.

Maria is OTS (on the soap)

Um, first sentence above should say:

This was part of a conversation about how the Obama campaign volunteer talks a lot to people who vote Republican based on "social issues" like abortion.

And the one about land ownership was from someone who probably would like to go back in time and be an aristocrat, and who should be ineligible to vote based on that comment anyway, so I don't put so much stock in that one!

mccain will win. reps will scam the election (again) if he doesn't.

McCain is not going to win. Bailout bill fails = economy goes even further in the shitbin and Republicans will get blamed.

mccain is not going to win, I do not think this vote is going to be close enough for them to pull the shit they did in 2000

This was part of a conversation about how the Obama campaign volunteers talks a lot to people who vote Republican based on "social issues" abortion. She thinks they should be voting instead to improve their economic situations, and if they only knew how their votes could materially affect their lives they would change their minds.

Yeah, and I guess that comprises so much of the blue state/red state thing that has been on everyone's minds since 2004.

I could be completely and totally wrong in thinking this, but I'm inclined to feel that people who have in the past sided with candidate x b/c of their position on abortion legislation, their espoused love for baby jesus and family, etc... will this time around, due to the severity of the current economic situation, put the priority of feeding their kids ahead of that other stuff. It's not like there are a million Ghandis living in the heartland-- when push comes to shove, I'm thinking people will vote with their stomachs, as it were.

The problem that remains, though, is what has been echoed many times over as concerns the apparently willful ignorance of so much of the population. The fact that there are people who are still "undecided" at this point is more than proof enough of that. I hate to say it, but I also think that many people are swayed on such an unconscious level when it comes to things which loom this largely on the spectrum of events...so sadly you get the phenomenon of people voting based on the candidate who they perceive as being more physically attractive, or taller, or more fun to watch football with, or less intellectually intimidating, or more of a "big daddy" figure...

Not to mention the racism nonsense-- e.g., see my uncle, who had been volunteering for Hillary's campaign, and then upon her losing the nomination to a dark-skinned man, overnight became a McCain supporter. (BTW HE (my uncle) IS WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!)

mccain is not going to win, I do not think this vote is going to be close enough for them to pull the shit they did in 2000

How bout the shit pulled in 2004?

xxpost

Have you been watching the polls?

All I know is liberals have been in shock both times Bush has won saying things like 'I'm going to leave the country,' 'there will be riots' etc. etc. and look what's happened.

I've lost faith in the American voter.

i watch the polls via 538 and it currently indicates a pretty wide margin. I personally think 538 is being conservative as well.

Yes, god knows I've lost faith, but this is a pretty singular situation (insert A Chorus Line parodies here).

Shit is so fucked that even the most elaborately constructed edifices of people's potentially limitless capacity for self-delusion are falling apart.

xpost

OK, the gap has widened from the last time I looked.

Perhaps this is due to Palin's hilarious interview with Katie Couric. Oh, if it could only be so easy.

I'll do the same thing I did when Bush won re-election in '04. Get drunk on election night, spew some hateful bile the next day, disengage from politics for a month or so, then resolve to get more involved with local politics/elections.

Around the time I resolve to take a more positive stance is when my relentless mockery of friends who claimed they would move to Canada will begin.

Dude, my friend who swore up and down he'd move to Canada if Bush won in 2004 didn't move to Canada, but did get depressed, gain a lot of weight, and drop out of school for a year. He was seriously that upset by it. No laughing matter.

I think if you're already voting on issues that clearly won't affect your economic situation, it's probably not because you're too uneducated and would just change your mind if you knew more about economics or sociology or whatever, it's probably because you have different priorities. Ones I strongly disagree with, but that still aren't the result of stupidity or ignorance.

I would replace " it's probably" with "it may" in this excerpt; at its heart, this is the part of diversity that everyone struggles with.

After 2004, I came home drunk and kicked over my Kerry/Edwards yard sign that was already falling apart due to the rain.

My birthday was the next day, and it was one of the most sullen birthdays I had had.

I'd drive through my neighborhood and see those Bush/Cheney signs, and wonder if somehow the only person who doesn't think he's crazy is usually the crazy one.

I bought a Playstation 2 soon thereafter and played Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas every night from ten until two for the next month when my fiancee arrived.

i was in fairbanks alaska working on tony knowles's failed campaign and i got tanked in the flophouse where i was staying, walked in on my roommate getting head, and passed out with my head resting on the toilet waiting to throw up

when i woke up at 4 am there was some dude shaving his head in the bathroom

I, personally, am voting for McCain because I am racist & hate azns

figures

Careful, crut... you know McCain lived in Asia for a while? Even longer than Obama.

We may be dealing with an Indochinchurian Candidate situation here..

I'm not gonna lie, in the 2004 election I was seriously bummed and fucking depressed as hell, I went on like a crazy pizza binge, gained 20 pounds, and I think I was in my slump for a good 6 months.

And while I will be pretty bummed AGAIN if McCain wins, I don't think I am 100% convinced that having one guy over the other is going to drastically change my life (aside from crazy war mongering or starting a Christian taliban state or something super extreme). Maybe I just am rationalizing it so I don't get so bummed out this go around.

There are freaks out there who think that if Obama wins the world is going to go to pot, and right now they, too, are planning their escape. I used to think the other side was just retarded, but recently found out an EXTREMELY talented, intelligent co-worker of mine is a far right wing conservative (he's also gay and a big Sarah Palin fan, which boggles my mind). I can't even begin to try and understand why he believes what he believes; why he supports a candidate who wants to pray his gayness away. I guess it's all just some ideology; that the hardcore righties think anyone who tries hard and works hard enough will rise to the top, and those at the bottom just are human loser bottom feeders.

Sarah Palin is kinda Judy Garland'esque?

I guess it's all just some ideology

daddy issues

Also in looking at electoral maps from the previous 100 years of elections, I really think one of the only things dividing our country is Roe v. Wade.

he's also gay and a big Sarah Palin fan

Maybe he can be her friend.

crazy war mongering or starting a Christian taliban state or something super extreme

i can see a or c happening...b maybe not so much.

recently found out an EXTREMELY talented, intelligent co-worker of mine is a far right wing conservative (he's also gay and a big Sarah Palin fan, which boggles my mind)

people are completely fucking insane. dunno what else to say.

i mean, isn't that something like being a beekeeper who goes into anaphylactic shock everyday?

The day after, back in 04, I organized a large and hilariously pointless anti-Bush demo on my campus. Then I threw everything I had into the poetry stuff I was doing, lost 15 pounds, and tanked my next two semesters.

Also started notes for a novel about "disillusioned activists fucking, drinking and dreaming of change in the wake of a second Bush victory" because lol college freshman

I think instead of moving to the Netherlands if McCain wins, I'll restart the old secession movement here. http://www.mvmagazine.com/2007/september-october/images/free_marthas_vineyard.gif

i know, i'm having fantasies involving transporting the conceit of that sci-fi novel about the pacific northwest seceding and trying to apply it to the seat of original guard freedom that was/is could be philly in present-day.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/report_60_million_people_youd

In the 2000 election I was 20 and barely paid any attention to the election and voted for Nader

:(

This mess we're in is YOUR fault!

In 2000 I was able to vote for Nader b/c I was living in one of those states where you could do that shit while being assured of the fact that in any event the dems had the territory locked. Since then, everything seems to have gone horribly wrong, both in the larger realm of the world as well as personally.

There is no moral to this story, except that, for whatever reasons, I am not freaked out about the November results. I'm very possibly horribly naive, but I think the game is up for the opposition?

SO NOT GOING TO WIN

It's a good thing I passed on that great opportunity to invest in the Iranian nuclear power program

There are freaks out there who think that if Obama wins the world is going to go to pot, and right now they, too, are planning their escape.

That's good, right?

not for you aussies :D

In 2000 I was able to vote for Nader b/c I was living in one of those states where you could do that shit while being assured of the fact that in any event the dems had the territory locked. Since then, everything

similar story except where I live there's never hope of the state going any way but GOP.

popular vote does matter in case it comes down 269-269 tho - not legally obv but it certainly would make things easier

This bailout crises + the very real possibility of 269-269 scares teh ever lovin' shit outta me.

I keep looking at 269-269 and thinking "oh please please please please please please please" and then I realize I have no idea if I am fervently wishing for some votes to transfer to Obama or if I really want to see the country in a full-on deadlock.

Well, yeah, oncoming locomotives never stopped me from placing pennies on the railroad tracks, but I'd like to think that I'm looking further ahead into the future these days than what will happen when those pieces of copper come flying back toward my face.

keep looking at 269-269 and thinking "oh please please please please please please please" and then I realize I have no idea if I am fervently wishing for some votes to transfer to Obama or if I really want to see the country in a full-on deadlock.

Let's ask this man for advice.

http://penkaushistory.com/493px-President_Rutherford_Hayes_1870_-_1880.jpg

I mean, the same House that just agreed to settle this bailout bill and then bailed out on the bailout bill they agreed to settle would be the ones getting to pick the next president.

Or Obama and McCain could put aside their differences and share the Oval Office before a live studio audience.

this fucking imbecile needs to retire

tell him. we already know it