2008 Primaries Thread

Symmetry required gabbneb to start this.

Wait wtf why can't we just start a new thread AFTER the primaries since the other one is already the de facto primaries thread?

Obama just schooled Billary. LOL

none of you are even reading each others' posts anymore, are you?

delete thread

I'll have to find the speech on Ye Olde Youtube.

Gracias so much Tomboto.

This is the primaries thread. Before there was a looking-forward-to-primaries thread. Then there will be an election thread.

delete jhosehawfurka

Biden (D-Acerbia) dropped out? :(

ok from daniel, esq on the other thread

he currently has John Edwards hammering away at HRC, giving Obama the luxury to remain, to a degree, "above the fray."

I think HRC is gonna start throwing shit at O soon enough, and he'll have to fight back. It's easy for me to see Edwards 'rising above' in that scenario.

hey what happened to el tomboto?

Biden will now not-so-quietly angle to become either the secretary of state or veep for the next Dem nominee.

Biden as Sec of State would make me haps

biden is a fucktard credit card conman stooge

william shatner as press secretary is the only appointment I care about

I'd like Richardson as Sec of State, but he might also make a good running partner.

I think HRC is gonna start throwing shit at O soon enough, and he'll have to fight back. It's easy for me to see Edwards 'rising above' in that scenario.

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, January 3, 2008 10:26 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

lol yeah right man. his whole persona is about fighting

xpost

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-09/07/xin_550901070921437242812.jpg

I think HRC is gonna start throwing shit at O soon enough, and he'll have to fight back. It's easy for me to see Edwards 'rising above' in that scenario.

Depends. Obama's going to be in the lead in New Hampshire tomorrow morning. If he keeps rising, he may not have to get into the muck. And as long as Edwards is around, he'll have to keep punching hard.

Biden wrote the three greatest pieces of legislation in history - the Magna Carta, the authorization for the Louisiana purchase, and the RAVE act

I thought he authored the Dred Scott decision too?

But Edwards still has a chance. He's got to win at least South Carolina to stay viable, tho.

edwards, never had a shot

fucking drug warrior asshoole trying to restrict my vulnerability to ecstacy wtf

Maybe he (Edwards) didn't. I thought he had a chance in Iowa and, if he won there, he'd have a puncher's-chance in New Hampsire.

CNN just reported 212,000 Dem turnout. In 2004, it was 125,000.

that's Kind Of A Big Deal, right?

yah totes

I think HRC is gonna start throwing shit at O soon enough,

ummmmm like as soon as six weeks ago?

also yeah that is totally rad about dem. turnout

I'm guessing that's a product of having more than one popular candidate?

What was the Republican turnout?

tombot- maybe lock one thread or the other?

-- gr8080, Thursday, January 3, 2008 6:49 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

About 114,000 Republicans turned out. The last contested Republican caucuses in 2000 drew about 88,000. George W. Bush, then the governor of Texas, won.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/huckobama.jpg

huckateeth

No? OK, fine. We'll go with the fucking bloated thread then.

yup you sure will.
you kids are some complainy ass complaintron bitches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqoFwZUp5vc

I'm guessing that's a product of having more than one popular candidate?

also to do with longer lead time (more press) and much savvier stat-addicted teams in place, shoveling yr snow and sitting yr kids

Carried over from the last thread... You ppl are truly sportsfan nutbagz with the "2% reporting" tea leaves.

Obama -- who I still might vote for -- increasingly strikes me as the New Mario Cuomo: makes kinda pretty speeches hitting the idealistic chords, canny in his votes/governance, endorses scum when playing strategically (Lieberman in CT primary last year for Obama, D'Amato in a Sen race for Cuomo). Of course Obama has the added shining-armor-of-youth factor.

Bill Clinton did not look drunk, acc to Gergen and the Amen Chorus he looked "devastated." LOLOLOLOL

I wish the Chappaqua Hillbillies had waved bye-bye at the camera on that platform last night, with their fixed grins of defeat. Nice touch having Madeleine "Madam Genocide" Albright up front (I though she was Ma Rodham for a second).

Carter probably not much opposition for reelection

uuuuuh, Carter had a death-battle with Ted Kennedy in '80 just to get renominated.

i hope morbs is looking at that cnn table and trying to figure out why edwards won the conservatives and electability-fanboys, and clinton tied in the union households

I leave the inside-baseball to you, honeybunch, cuz I don't give a shit.

clinton campaign complaining abt obama celebrity is soooo absurd

OTFM! "The celebrification of politics" -- yeah, ever since a Warner Bros movie star became the defining prez of modern times.

also, Obama has cuter kids than Cuomo.

^

And less skeletons in his closet (as far as we know anyway.) Also Cuomo couldn't ACTUALLY ever decide to run so really it's a fucking stupid analogy, ain't it?

I wasn't talking about their office-specific ambitions, so no, not that fucking stupid.

What were Mario's skeletoons, aside from Bill Clinton's infamous bimbo-taped remark that "he looks like a mafioso"?

Ya know honestly I can't remember now (was it family? graft?), but wasn't there schtick somewhere? I remember being told that was one of the reason why he never actually ran.

never stopped Gerry Ferraro

Um actually it did.

BEDFORD, N.H. - He flatlined in Iowa and he's struggling in New Hampshire, but Rudy Giuliani shook off the early-state blues Thursday as only he can.

"None of this worries me - Sept. 11, there were times I was worried," Giuliani said.

LOL

haaaa

everything can be compared to 9/11

Grrrr....

Recent re-run Onion headline:

"Giuliani Elected President of 9/11"

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Giuliani.article.jpg

nice Indiana Jones style plane with red line

New Thread, Thank fuck for that.

The more I see Obama speak the more I warm to Edwards. Obama says almost nothing but says it gracefully and sincerely, Edwards has much more substance but somehow I don't believe it when he says it.

New thread, but the old one is thriving in a way that this one is not. Why is that??

gabbneb's stable of acolytes.

At this point, whether a pol believes what he says is irrelevant to me (besides being, to some extent, unknowable). I care is that s/he's held to what s/he runs on, which given the National ADD Culture is admittedly a semi-fantasy.

The more I see Obama speak the more I warm to Edwards. Obama says almost nothing but says it gracefully and sincerely, Edwards has much more substance but somehow I don't believe it when he says it.

Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. I couldn't even watch all of Obama's speech - I found it to be pure meaningless drivel. "Inspiring." "Great speaker."

And yet Edwards says the right things and comes off as disingenuous somehow.

who da fuck do you people expect to see up there, Albert Schweitzer or Desmond Tutu?

(xpost)Um because he is disingenuous maybe?

wow The National Review's The Corner has some LOL stuff today. I won't cut and paste but two entries got me, one said basically, "The biggest Repub. winner in Iowa last night is Rudy because he never planned to win Iowa anyway," and the second said, "Awww I don't want Hilary to lose the nomination because I will miss hating her."

wow The National Review's The Corner has some LOL stuff today

Oh that's for sure. Them, Hewitt, RedState -- lols a-plenty.

Then there's this guy:

http://vodkapundit.com/archives/009372.php

via gawker
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2008/01/Picture%2034.jpg

lolz @ fat guys in stripes

"Edwards is disingenuous" is the new "Spielberg is manipulative"

voted for the war = fuck him

anybody who thinks huckabee was the stupid option for Iowa goppers didn't watch the same debates I had to sit through. Who were they supposed to pick? Romney? FFS

getting mighty gabbnebby about edwards here morbz

ps why do we have this thread?

BECAUSE WE KNOW WHO THE CANDIDATES ARE

CUZ THE OTHER FUCKING THING IS 8000 POSTS LONG

CUZ WE MIGHT LOSE DARIA

DARIA '08

tombot OTM re Huckabee in the debates. He was easily the most affable and well-spoken - didn't come off like a robot or a giggly madman and made all his responses sound reasonable.

I'm just going to lock the other one.

fuck you people for not being able to get along and form any consensus on how to behave

democracy!!

LOCK LOCK LOCK LOCK

FOUR MORE THREADS

rip hueg thread

Shakey Mo and I agree: That thread was an asshole.

okay, so reposting this here:

She could always needle him on policy issues, though, right? Not that they would be very productive. I certainly think Hillary's in a tight spot here -- I think her underhanded attacks at Obama's character, even though she made them through surrogates, backfired and made her look two-faced. She can't afford to repeat that in New Hampshire, but she needs to do something to stop his momentum.

-- elmo argonaut, Friday, January 4, 2008 7:35 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Not that I want her to, mind.

-- elmo argonaut, Friday, January 4, 2008 7:36 PM (4 minutes ago)

just paste that whole thread into this one

didn't come off like a robot or a giggly madman and made all his responses sound reasonable.

exactly, everybody else sounded like a lunatic, a joker (thompson) or mitt's insincere ron popeil shit

the press is waxing epic and rhapsodic on obama's win in iowa, i don't recall iowa results ever being cast in such a momentous tone

haha gff

press immediately playing an 'iowa picked the outsiders' meme, which doesn't really make sense under scrutiny

xp

Meanwhile, the wit and wisdom of Karl Rove:

On the Republican side, we talked about the core issue for Republican voters. It was not quite what I was expecting. To Karl Rove, the issue that will determine who gets the Republican nominee is "fidelity to core principles," or who is the most faithful conservative. He said it will make things a lot easier for the Democrats who have a "binary decision" to make — do they want Hillary or not. On the Republican side, our voters are going through a laundry list of issues to see who is the most consistently conservative guy on a host of issues.

trans: "oh shi-"

every 4 years, the "momentousness" of Iowa/NH increases bcz of the batshit blather of the cable news monster.

mitt's insincere ron popeil shit

Huckabee and Obama are the post-fear candidates.

the press is waxing epic and rhapsodic on obama's win in iowa
The turnout for Iowa Democrats was 239,000, which was a whole lot higher than expected and in past elections, and Edwards got the majority of "second choice" people.

Rove for http://www.logoblog.org/wp-images/campaign-logos/jim-gilmore-logo.jpg

lol @ apostrophe

Not really about the primaries but roffle:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2201/2160014390517954f318md7.jpg

no sex in the campaign room

Zogby Poll puts Clinton ahead of Obama in NH.

Poll taken before IA caucuses.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/zogby_hillary_and_mccain_slightly_ahead_in_nh_before_iowa_caucus_was_held.php

speculation on HRC's NH strategy: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1700129,00.html

Some blather towards the end (Kennedy roflz), but Sully's right in the main about Huck and Obama's oratory:

One aspect of this race that has not been given enough notice so far: Obama and Huckabee and Edwards are easily the best public speakers in this race. They won last night in part because of their ability to connect with people in large settings. You hear in Obama and Huckabee the cadences of the churches they come from - "the holy places where the races meet" - but you also hear men who have honed their rhetorical skills over the years, and actually connect their own thoughts into words. Contrast these skills with Romney and Clinton, who are competent but programmed like a salesman and a focus group respectively.

In the television and internet age, old-style rhetoric is sometimes regarded as an anachronism. It isn't. Huckabee's brilliance in the debates gave him this opportunity. Obama's public speeches have been the best in a candidate since Reagan and Kennedy. As someone who was trained in and loves debate, it's good to see this old skill gain new salience. Lincoln would be proud.

yeah I heard a bit of southern preacher in Obama's cadence last night - first time I've ever noticed it

press immediately playing an 'iowa picked the outsiders' meme, which doesn't really make sense under scrutiny

it makes plenty of sense - it lets them take a massive shit on hillary

Sullivan's been on an OTM roll yesterday and today.

Besides everything else, Huckabee and Ombama pass that you'd-want-to-have-a-beer-with-them/work-with-them/sleep-with-them test.

did you guys see huckabee on leno? dude is so likeable

did he play bass?

yes, with the band

they also showed a clip from when leno interviewed him like a decade ago and he made some joke about how even leno's chin could fit in the governor's mansion

http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/d/drumming-emoticon-drum-kit.gif

I'd never sleep with Huck, thanks.

The more I see Obama speak the more I warm to Edwards. Obama says almost nothing but says it gracefully and sincerely, Edwards has much more substance but somehow I don't believe it when he says it.

*sigh* I agree; no matter what Edwards says he comes off as unctuous and douchey/ <trial lawyer,etc>

still going to support Obama...

(I feel unnervingly like my great-great aunt Mazelle who would likely vote for somebody if she liked his hair)

ILE, you sent a message today! A thread of change! On to AAD!

One aspect of this race that has not been given enough notice so far: Obama and Huckabee and Edwards are easily the best public speakers in this race.

Yes! In the rush to pinpoint "big causes" and "sweeping narratives" to the Iowa results, a lot of people have forgotten the most simple, straightforward explanation: The two most charismatic candidates won. That shouldn't be so surprising. HRC has organization and smarts, but Obama moves people. Lots of GOP candidates have something going for them (to GOP voters, at least), but Huckabee sounds like he's talking to you, personally, with an intimacy that makes his rivals look amaturish by comparison.

Now, the best speakers -- the most charismatic figures -- don't always win the primaries. But it doesn't take tortured reasoning to see why these two candidates connected with voters so well in a state that highly values retail politics. We'll see how that plays on 02.05, when organization and money are more important (with so many big primaries taking place on the same day, there's no real way to effectively engage in "retail politics"; by that time, of course, both Obama and Hucakabee will be either the frontrunner or the co-frontrunner, so they'll have a chance to be at least competitive).

The biggest Repub. winner in Iowa last night is Rudy because he never planned to win Iowa anyway

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard a political commentator say. Astounding.

Yes! In the rush to pinpoint "big causes" and "sweeping narratives" to the Iowa results, a lot of people have forgotten the most simple, straightforward explanation: The two most charismatic candidates won. That shouldn't be so surprising. HRC has organization and smarts, but Obama moves people.

I've been saying it for months!

i cant understand rudy's logic in not campaigning in iowa

http://thesituationist.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/the-political-brain.jpg http://www.aolcdn.com/ch_bv/hillary-clinton-howard-u-400a062907.jpg

That photo of the black navy guy is mega creepy. Is she trying to channel blackness?

i cant understand rudy's logic in not campaigning in iowa

He knew he wouldn't win there (or in the other early states). Some of HRC's advisors suggested, early on, that she shouldn't compete in Iowa, fearing that she'd do poorly there; obv., she rejected that advice.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard a political commentator say

Oops! I would like to point out that I was incorrect, he didn't say biggest winner he said biggest beneficiary. Anyway.

Rudy Time [Mark R. Levin]
The biggest beneficiary of the Huckabee win in Iowa is not Huckabee, it's Rudy. The biggest beneficiary of a McCain win in New Hampshire would be Rudy. Romney's strategy was to win Iowa and New Hampshire. He has now lost Iowa. R

did anyone see Biden's dropping-out speech? was he in a broom closet?

i cant understand rudy's logic in not campaigning in iowa

Pluses = save the money and time for a blitz of the other states & hopefully gain an early edge there

Minuses = lost early exposure + makes him look kind of like a loser

I wouldn't call it against him yet, and if he can't pull the nom I don't think Iowa will have been a significant factor.

he's just biden his time until veepstakes, xp

Not only did Rudy lose in Iowa, but he lost to Ron Paul in Iowa. Rough.

Fallows:

And Bill Clinton!!! Who managed a wan smile but for seconds on end stood motionless, as if traumatized or stuffed. Better than anyone else in the country he must understand the situation. The young candidate with the sex appeal and the fun and the magic and the sense of the future and the opportunity to shed the old -- Clinton knows the advantages that candidate has. And he knows full well how feeble the appeals to "experience" and "ready from day one" and "competence and responsibility" were when they were issued sixteen years ago by a candidate who really was superbly prepared and experienced: the incumbent president, eight-year vice president, victorious war commander, former ambassador and CIA director George H. W. Bush.

nobody watched the dropout speeches because the coronation of obama was on

Interesting claim from Levin, speaking of him:

I am informed that Dick Morris and Newt Gingrich are helping Huckabee behind the scenes. Morris has been everywhere today promoting Huckabee.

Giuliani is probably dearly wishing he could've run for Pres in 06 (or even 04)

what will those guys do when hill loses the nom?

yeah I heard a bit of southern preacher in Obama's cadence last night - first time I've ever noticed it

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 January 2008 20:09 (24 minutes ago) Link

thats not new. he does it better than gore did! i guess people like it?

don't tell him he's got no claim on selma alabama

xp - Morris: toe sucking

lolz @ imagining Bill having to tell Hillary she's not sexy/appealling enough

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSXnQkqYqA4

^^common freestyling at obama's church on nye

ugh I hate Common

one of my (ex)coworkers saw him when she was getting breakfast at some local restaurant the other day.

Oh Powerline, you are to be mocked:

How is it that mainstream conservatives find themselves on the verge of having no viable like-minded candidate early this year? The easy answer is to focus on the flaws of Romney and Thompson. Romney has only recently embraced conservative positions across-the-board. In addition, his religion probably hurts him and he seems to have difficulty connecting with voters. Thompson entered the race late and has failed to show the fire voters apparently are looking for.

But the deeper answer, I think, lies in the perception that Republicans haven't governed very well during the past seven years. If the Republican Congress had performed better in general and if President Bush had handled the war in Iraq better (or arguably if he hadn't launched it), one can easily imagine that George Allen (or perhaps Bill Frist) would be the frontrunner for the nomination right now. The perceived failures of Congress and of the president knocked both of these Senators out of the box, and Bush's lack of popularity has Republicans flirting with non-traditional Republican options.

There's irony here because I would argue that the flaws of the Republican Congress and of the Bush presidency don't stem from adherence to conservative principles. But life is unfair. I've long suspected that the Republican party (which is synonymous in large segments of "the public mind" with "conservative") isn't perceived as having performed well enough to elect a mainstream conservative president this year. It may turn out that it isn't viewed as having performed well enough even to nominate a mainstream conservative.

Because it's all about perception, don't you see.

perception perception perception perception perception perception

i don't get how those guys can be so constantly, perfectly out to lunch. don't they run banks and shit in real life? nothing on that blog ever has a whiff of reality in it.

Coke up Fred Thompson and we've got a horserace.

http://soundboard.com/memberphoto/974211149974389.jpg

george allen knocked himself out the box, he didn't need any help from the perception of congress

http://www.sustland.umn.edu/design/images/colortechniques1.jpg

yah you know i was thinking abt thompson last night and how everyone was trying to hand him the gop nomination on a platter but he just couldnt be bothered to reach out and accept it wtf

did you guys see huckabee on leno? dude is so likeable

no news -- he's charmed the pants off jon stewart for at least a couple of years now (not very difficult, granted)

what will those guys do when hill loses the nom?

Ready their sights on Obama (e.g., "His middle name is Hussain!"; "He went to a muslim jihadist school!"; "He refused to take the oath on a Bible!" "He's a covert Islamofacsist!").

I am informed that Dick Morris and Newt Gingrich are helping Huckabee behind the scenes.

On the one hand, it helps Huckabee to have experienced stategists guiding him now that he's a frontrunner. On the other hand, I don't think guys like Dick Morris and Ed Rollins really mesh well with Huckabee's style. We'll see. . .

The biggest beneficiary of a McCain win in New Hampshire would be Rudy.

This is stupid, too. It assumes that Giuliani's only obstacle to the nomination is Romney, which is now very stale thinking. If McCain wins N.H., he'll become a viable "Nat'l Security GOP" alternative to Huckabee. At that point, what's the basis for Giuliani's candidacy vis-a-vis McCain? That McCain isn't hawkish enough? That Giuliani better mixes nat'l security bona fides with pandering to social conservatives? Neither of those -- or any other rationales I can think of (at the moment -- make sense.

I kind of disagree with that color wheel.

Ready their sights on Obama

dude never revealed their toe-sucking to the world or pwned them in govt-shutdown-showdown

dude never revealed their toe-sucking to the world or pwned them in govt-shutdown-showdown

Wha?

i think in idexed color myself

Contrary to what some bozo erroneously wrote, Giuliani didn’t skip Iowa from the get go. He stopped campaigning there to save him the embarrassment of putting in a fight and losing. Now at least he suffered a spinnable defeat. He has been through worse. 9/11 anyone?

Gingrich has been smart about anti-establishment strategy for the past few years, seems like a good match for Huckabee.

Contrary to what some bozo erroneously wrote, Giuliani didn’t skip Iowa from the get go. He stopped campaigning there to save him the embarrassment of putting in a fight and losing. Now at least he suffered a spinnable defeat. He has been through worse. 9/11 anyone?

-- Jeb

Is this Jeb Bush?

Gingrich has been smart about anti-establishment strategy for the past few years, seems like a good match for Huckabee.

That -- among other things -- is why I didn't mention him in my post. Gingrich is a good match for Huckabee as an advisor, in many ways.

Is this Jeb Bush?

lol

xxxxxxxpost

The GOP woes come in part from the fact that their coalition involves gumming together interests that can't hold for very long. Hardcore evangelicals will no longer tolerate someone who merely pays lip service to evangelical social principals in order to advance "true conservative principals." Huckabee's success suggests that they may not even like those "true conservative principals" much.

Also I thing the GOP has created a monster it can't control with the immigration issue.

Hardcore evangelicals will no longer tolerate someone who merely pays lip service to evangelical social principals in order to advance "true conservative principals." Huckabee's success suggests that they may not even like those "true conservative principals" much.

I don't know about that. At the moment, there's no acceptable evengelical alternative to Huckabee (an alternative that might, for instance, be less populist and more economically conservative), so it's hard to test that theory.

ARG Poll on New Hampshire, taken before the Iowa Caucus:

Democrats:
Clinton 35% (+4)
Obama 31% (+4)
Edwards 15% (-6)
Richardson 5% (+0)

Republicans:
McCain 35% (+5)
Romney 25% (-5)
Huckabee 12% (+1)
Paul 9% (+2)
Giuliani 8% (-1)

and Zogby's NH Poll, also taken before Iowa:

Democrats:
Clinton 32%
Obama 26%
Edwards 20%
Richardson 7%

Republicans:
McCain 34%
Romney 30%
Huckabee 10%
Giuliani 9%
Paul 7%

that poll is moot

no its good for figuring the bounce

ARG was the worst in IA

http://www.flowbee.com/images/webrickbotflat2%20copy.jpg http://www.blushingbuyer.co.uk/product_images/Medium/990684;Warehouse;Warehouse.jpg

ARG is located in Manchester, NH -- so their NH polling may be a tad more accurate

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041025/041025_buckner_hmed_12p.hmedium.jpg

'iowa picked the outsiders'

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/60minutes/20080102/2ccce7cdba51e3ce18e4c1128435595c.jpg?x=314&y=180&q=85&sig=jw43dxE_rL_xXmhjENjBiw--

where huckabee @

republicans trying to erase him from history

Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic national committeeman and major Clinton supporter from Long Island, N.Y., echoed what many in the Clinton camp were saying overnight. “Being the underdog will be very liberating,” he said.

yes, thank god for third place.... SUCH FREEDOM
lolz

http://www.surveyusa.com/

where huckabee @

what am i, tracer wizard? this was the best i could find

not good enough

Clinton declares herself candidate for young voters
WASHINGTON - It wasn't long ago that Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign scoffed at the notion that young voters would deliver an election. How quickly thing can change.

Just seconds into her speech Friday morning, Clinton was declaring herself the candidate for America's youth — stealing a page from the new Democratic presidential front-runner, Barack Obama. The night before, the under-30 crowd came out in larger numbers than ever in Iowa caucuses normally dominated by the AARP-card set, delivering victory for the Illinois senator who promised to bring change to Washington.

That's why after her third-place finish in Iowa, Clinton got off her plane in New Hampshire and declared: "This is especially about all of the young people in New Hampshire who need a president who won't just call for change, or a president who won't just demand change, but a president who will produce change, just like I've been doing for 35 years."

"I'm running for president to reclaim the future — the future for all of us, of all ages, but particularly for young Americans," she said a few seconds later.

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/farid/research/digitaltampering/stalin1+2.jpg

lolz at claiming 35 years of "experience"

why doesn't she just say I'M OLDER!

guys, think of the great political skills from hillary we could look forward to in a general election

cant remember if i got that from the onion or not

More candid stuff to come from Underdog Rodham! Maybe "Lobbyists are real Americans too" needs another workout.

i'm older and know better! heed my experience, you goddamn kids!

where did this hillarys a stone cold operator thing come from - what a train wreck god

clinton repeatedly jumping on obama bandwagon lolz. Yesterday it was all her nonsense about change, today it's the youth vote, tomorrow it'll be her street work in chicago.

and how she's black

She's a Smooth Operator except for healthcare taskforces and prez campaigns.

and how she's black

I picture her working hard to get an endorsement from Lil Mama

http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/6/1/5/1/11111516-11111519-slarge.jpg

i am an octoroon!

btw look who pops up if you google hillary right now

http://i13.tinypic.com/89hyhx0.jpg

If the Obama campaign can point out that in the Dem chorus, he's doing all the calling and Hillary's doing all the responding -- it may be enough to portray her as a calculating opportunist

also, WTF is this about Hillary's claim of 'innocence'? what the fuck does she mean?

it means she's a virgin

btw love hillary's new babe in the woods meme
xpost dammit

(sorry that is not very nice--it probably means she thinks she hasn't been in washington to be corrupted???)

been in washington long enough

she did not have vince foster killed

where does chelseas come from?

Anglo-Saxon Cealc-h3ð = "chalk wharf"

oh ok

i have a hard time reconciling 'experience' with 'innocence,' honestly.

chelsea clinton is actually a chalk golem? awesome.

so did Blake.

(xpost)

http://www.davidkrutpublishing.com/dkp/wp-content/uploads/ArtGallery/Jeremy_Wafer/songs_of_innocence_and_experience.jpg

new campaign poster, plz

http://www.soulstrut.com/images/reviews/crates/motown/Axelrod,-David---OG%20Song-Of-In.jpg
http://www.soulstrut.com/images/reviews/crates/motown/Axelrod,-David---Songs-Of-E.jpg

"I did very well with people over 45, and I didn't do as well with people under 30. I take responsibility for that," she said. "I'm going to talk over the next five days as much as I can about creating opportunities for young people."

Is it possible to sound more calculated and vague at the same time?

My fave hated lefty blogger:

I suppose the one good thing about Iowa is that Hillary finished third. Not that this will stop her. Quite the opposite. The Clintons are serious pit bulls, and finishing just behind John Edwards of all people will only intensify her power quest. Recall that husband Bill finished fourth in '92 with a whopping three percent. Didn't stop Bubba from ripping out throats to the White House.

For now, we must endure the liberal revivalist clamor, since the faithful truly believe that This Is Their Time. No point in talking to them. Just smile, move slowly, and always keep an exit in clear sight.

http://dennisperrin.blogspot.com/2008/01/saints-preserve-us.html

Your fave rightie blogger?

What makes the "innocence" and "experience" pics funny is that Obama's campaign manager(?)'s name?

David Axelrod!

Oh the lol of it.

more lolz with Mitt

HRC's New Hampshire Comeback Plan

Atlantic blogger Matthew Yglesias thought this was a pretty good plan, except for the "Who would be better v. John McCain in a GE?" plank. Yglesias is right: I think the answer is pretty clearly Obama.

I don't think "playing the gender card" will work well - at the risk of sounding totally sexist, women are more likely to vote for a man they'd like to sleep with than a woman who reminds them of their mother.

but then I have a tendency to enjoy considering national elections in terms of "who is the most sexually dynamic candidate"

I missed this great line from Obama last night, commenting on his new status as frontrunner:

Referring to his new status as the Democratic front-runner, he said: "This feels good. It's just like I imagined it when I was talking to my Kindergarten teacher."

(Gently jabbing at HRC for claiming Obama plotted to be President since Kindergarden).

With Huckabee showing the attack ad that he didn't want to show, it's fun seeing the passive-aggressive guys rise to the top.

In other news, Maverick Candidate and 'Stand Up Guy' John McCain takes money from Swift Boaters

dude is broke, no surprise there. hoping folks have short memories

Watch Carl Bernstein call Clinton 'wounded' »

lol

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080104/capt.22bf3772af4246c18d49b171af50a727.aptopix_clinton_2008_nhea109.jpg

Watch Carl Bernstein call Clinton 'wounded' »

I'm increasinly troubled by the number of commentators who seem to think that an Obama nomination is all-but-assured. It reminds me of the way sportswriters -- in a mindhive -- annoint a team as the inevitable champion of a 7 game series after they win Game 1. It's obviously more likely than not that the Game 1 winner will win the series, but it's by no means assured (I'm looking at you, Dallas Mavericks).

Anyway, I can certainly see HRC coming back. What's more difficult is to see the road she takes to come back; that is, it's hard to see how, at this juncture and given what she and Obama have shown so far, she can be nimble enough to slow down the Obama momentum.

I don't think Obama has it in the bag by any means but like I said upthread, I can't really conceive of an angle that Hillary can take that will successfully woo voters away from him.

here apparently are her strategies:

* Hillary aides are reportedly studying whether they can hit Obama on gun control, an issue where Obama has taken a hard line that might turn off some New Hampshire voters.

* Hillary, who isn't known for frequent Q and As with reporters, made herself extensively available to them in New Hampshire today, and quickly made it clear that she would now get serious about "drawing contrasts" with her "leading opponents." This was apparently part of a concerted effort on the Hillary camp's part to prevent Obama from coasting off his Iowa victory.

* Bill Clinton will spend the next five days campaigning for Hillary in New Hampshire, though he had reportedly not planned to.

* In another effort to signal that Camp Hillary would be playing rougher in the days ahead, Hillary also said this today:

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_plans_to_draw_contrasts_with_obama_in_days_ahead.php

er that last point is also from the article just didn' get tagged

I dunno, sounds like more of the same (does she really wanna make gun control a huge national issue right now? wtf, she's gonna pump up her NRA credentials...?)

as has been noted above, perhaps her biggest problem is that she's a pretty uninspiring and business-like public speaker, especially compared to the pulpit-thumping oratory that Huckabee and Obama (and even Edwards to some extent) can regularly muster.

"Of all the people running for president, I’ve been the most vetted, the most investigated, and my goodness, the most innocent it turns out."

That all rasies an interesting question: If you were an HRC advisor, what would you suggest she do in New Hampshire? Would you be content with the strategy set forth in the linked memo above? (n.1)

________________________________
(n.1) Obama's strategy is, right now, easier to see: Stay ahead and above the fray, act like a frontrunner. I suppose he'll have to address the fact that New Hampshire voters like things more rough-and-tumble than Iowa voters, but I'm not sure that forces him to change his strategy. Besides, after last night's victory and victory speech, I bet lots of New Hampshire voters have Obamamania.

yeah that gun control thing is fucking loony. we can only hope it ends up with her hunting ducks in an orange jumpsuit a la kerry.

Former Sect. Labor Robert Reich's bold prediction for the GE: Obama v. McCain.

at the risk of sounding totally sexist, women are more likely to vote for a man they'd like to sleep with than a woman who reminds them of their mother.

Risk not averted. Oh well.

Shakey, you sound exactly like the GOP folks who used to write to Letter To The Editor of the Orange County Register when Clinton got reelected in 1996.

And in conclusion:

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-01/34570416.jpg

so gonna happen

It reminds me of the way sportswriters -- in a mindhive -- annoint a team as the inevitable champion of a 7 game series after they win Game 1.

That's because in the twenty-first century, elections are covered like playoffs. Dunno if it was always like that, but it sure is now.

I think Hillary Clinton doesn't quite get that to be talking change while completely surrounded by Bill and his cabinet might not be the way to go. That stage setup was like a wax museum piece from the Clinton library.

It won't happen, but I would love to somehow see Al Gore put a dagger into the back of Hillary's campaign and drop an endorsement on Obama in the next couple of days. Not that I am sold on Obama, but I sure don't want the Clintons to get back into the White House.

It's possible, I guess; Gore really dislikes HRC. In fact, one of my law partners is apparently connected to some Gore insiders. He says that Gore was considering a Presidential run, but he couldn't bear the thought of losing to HRC, who seemed all-but-inevitable at the time.

gore can still be veep again right? lol awesome

NO CHANCE.

Ominous Signs in New Hampshire for HRC

Doesn't mean she won't win. But the Obama wave is cresting, and I don't think she has enough time to break it. I keep hearing that New Hampshire is a rougher, tougher state to campaign in, that going negative works there, that HRC's more conservative leanings will play well there, but from what I've read, I don't see it.

I wonder what will happen if HRC loses the first three (Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina)? What if she doesn't win a state in January? Does she hang on for Super Tuesday, where her organizational strength and DLC-establishment connections might catapult her forward?

daniel go to sleep and/or lay down and relax.

you deserve a medal for these links though. you're basically my RSS reader.

man i couldn't even imagine the palpable tension on that stage after the second boo.

hill & bill need to change their look back to this

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0907/hippieclintonsImage1.jpg

OTM.

do you think hillary ever smoked w33d??

Thanks for the kind words, J0rdan. I'll sleep, tho I get less and less of it these days.

Can't resist one more link. Check this out, HRC is "directing" ABC News to alleged evidence that Obama's 'Too Liberal' (because he supported the abolition of minimum mandatory sentences for convicted criminals). To be fair, I'm not sure HRC used the words "too liberal," but she's now drawing that comparison between herself and Obama, which I think shows where her mindset is.

By the way, on the few video feeds I've seen today of HRC, she sounds bad. Flat and forced, I guess, are the best ways to describe it. Even if I can't get behind her as a candidate (I find her uninspiring), there's a soft spot in my heart for the Clintons. Bill Clinton won -- twice -- in a country that was in the middle of a long, hard rightward drift. Times are different now, and a more progressive candidate, like an Obama, might be the right man for the era. But what Bill Clinton did then was masterful and gave many of us hope. HRC losing the nomination is okay (indeed, I don't support her candidacy), but I really don't want to see their legacy tarnished with unseemly tactics against a rising star in what I suspect is a losing cause.

Okay, end of rant. I will get some sleep now.

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/01/Romneypacksudgeyes.jpeg

70's era Clintons should be played by Will Ferrell and Hope Davis in any future biopic.

xp
so gonna happen....but what?

omg @ jergins pic

One more: John Edwards delivering a pointed and good speech in New Hampshire. His message: He's the fighter on the Democratic side.

The scrapy underdog role suits Edwards well. I know his problems (too young looking; some find him insincere; too smooth), but he has a lot of upside. I also like his strategy of trying to now frame this as a two-person race: Obama v. Edwards. It (obv.) isn't true, but it's a way for him to provide a new twist to his message and to make him seem vital.

Alright, now sleep.

I also like his strategy of trying to now frame this as a two-person race: Obama v. Edwards.

the only prob with this i think is that he's really come back into the race as the dem's really viable anti-hillary/establishment candidate.

"really viable" meaning not kucinich or dodd etc.

the one thing I really actually appreciate about edwards taking the silver in iowa is that he can continue to put forth his ideas and people have to listen to him; if he had gotten third as expected no democrat would have actually talked about issues in any substantive fashion until January 2009

(not because they have nothing substantive to say, necessarily, but because there is nothing substantive separating obama and hilary on the policy front that everybody doesn't already know)

even after the total nightmare that has been bush, i have to admit that none of the candidates inspire me with any sense of confidence whatsoever. :(

(and, on a different note) does anyone beside me look at the race in the historical context and think: after

bush 1988 / clinton 1992 / clinton 1996

i was uncomfortable with bush 2000. but after

bush 1988 / clinton 1992 / clinton 1996 / bush 2000 / bush 2004

i am REALLY uncomfortable with clinton 2008, almost regardless of what her policies would be. can we at least play at democracy a bit more convincingly than having two families run the country for 20 years? and i liked clinton.

mitya, your discomfort is not unique at all. It seems with the turn of the new year, a lot of Dems have suddenly felt "oh shit this is the year isn't it" and had a second scan of "HRC: Prez" and didn't feel right.

I admit I feel the same as you, even if I like HRC as a candidate.

an appraisal of obama's political experience, getting legislation passed in the illinois senate:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

and a hesitant critique of that experience:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

good article but you posted the same one twice.

Say, are any of you going to do something locally asides from just voting? I.e. voter-reg, headin' to some sorta local meeting, something like that?

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0907/hippieclintonsImage1.jpg

hillry ckinton mad uugky 1976

bill lookin mighty christlike

Interesting analysis of what's at stake in New Hampshire

Anyway, the above-linked article sets forth what I think is HRC's remaining move against Obama (n.1): That he's "too liberal." HRC, who now must react to Obama's Iowa win, can't move to his left, and she didn't gain enough traction with her No. 1 argument (that she's more "experienced" and "ready to lead from Day One"; maybe this argument works better in New Hampshire, but I doubt HRC thinks -- at this point -- she can rest on it). So the natural move is to Obama's right. And she can frame that argument in a way that doesn't necessarily isolate the left base, by arguing that she's better positioned to respond to the right's "attack machine," then trotting out all the things that machine supposedly will say about Obama.

I see the reasoning. But I think it also opens another line of attack for Obama about how the fight between HRC and him is about the past v. the future. HRC (and Bill Clinton) grew up politically in an era when the country was moving right, and if liberals were going to succeed, they had to move with it. That led to "triangulation," where Bill Clinton appealed to a diverse group of voters by distancing himself from both the Democratic and Republican parties. But now may be a different moment, giving an opening to a more progressive candidate, like Obama. The question, and the legitimate debate, is which direction the country is prepared to go to: center-right (HRC) or center-left to left (Obama). That question can also be seen as whether the country is where it was in the 90s (or even further right), which would support continuing the politics of the past, or at a different point, and ready for something new, which would perhaps support a more progressive Democrat.

__________________________________
(n.1) I say it's her "remaining move" not because she's desperate, but because there are only so many options available to a candidate. She's already deploying her strongest argument: That she's more "experienced."

you didn't sleep much huh

lol. Sorry if I'm bombarding the thread too much.

About 5 hours of sleep. I'm up getting ready for a guitar class for me, and a piano class for my daughter. Then, sadly, probably to work.

bill lookin mighty christlike

He looks like Sam Beam, of Iron & Wine! I knew I liked that guy.

daniel, esq 2008 = kingfish 2004

lol

Will someone liveblog the debates tonight? Maybe on another thread?

daniel, esq 2008 = kingfish 2004

Hm. Not sure what this means, but it doesn't sound flattering.(n.1)

_______________________
(n.1) Nothing against Kingfish, btw. I only recognize the name.

hillry ckinton mad uugky 1976

FUCK YOU!

does anyone remember that britishes poster in 04 who used tell us v eruditely all this CW stuff we already knew? who was that guy again?

Ed

Tom Cl3veland or something wasn't it?

whatever happened to that guy?

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyid=2008-01-05T134259Z_01_N04274456_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-POLITICS-POLL.xml

FUNFUNFUN

http://i13.tinypic.com/71pt75g.jpg
FUNFUNFUN

til Daddy takes the T-Bird away

We've come on holiday by mistake

NIGHTMARE VACATION

New poll has Obama beating Clinton by 10 in NH, and if Kerry's bounce in 2004 is any indication his lead is only going to go up from there. I hate to be too cocky, but... stick a fork in her.

WOW!

Hatch, are you the WFMU DJ of the same name?

THATS A HUEG MOTHERFUCKING BOUNCE RIGHT THERE!

lol - http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/fred_thompson_im_skipping_new_hampshire.php - i'm not working for McCain or anything

Yes indeed, that's me.

Don't count HRC out until at least early February. She obv. has money and organization, and those are v. important on 02.05.08 (more important than retail politics, since there are so many big states in play on one day).

if she loses nh its over

george will on obama:

Barack Obama, who might be mercifully closing the Clinton parenthesis in presidential history, is refreshingly cerebral amid this recrudescence of the paranoid style in American politics. He is the un-Edwards and un-Huckabee -- an adult aiming to reform the real world rather than an adolescent fantasizing mock-heroic "fights" against fictitious villains in a left-wing cartoon version of this country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/04/AR2008010403561.html

obv hrc is playing thru to superduper tuesday, but she's clearly behind if she loses NH, and won't be looking too good if she comes in 3rd again in SC

shell take care of edwards in sc

That WP article is mostly about Huckabee (and, to a lesser extent, Edwards). And, in that regard, George Will is a Madisonian ''establishment GOP'' hack (i.e., for free markets and limited gov't; not an evengelical). A smart, articulate hack, to be sure, but a hack nonetheless.

I rarely agree with David Brooks, but his column yesterday made a good point.

"When an African-American man is leading a juggernaut to the White House, do you want to be the one to stand up and say No?"

If Obama sweeps the first four states--which will probably happen as long as he gets NH on Tuesday--it could be awfully damaging to the Clintons' reputation if they do decide to stay in the race through Super Tuesday. And even if she did stay in, she might be better off losing than pulling off an upset and potentially alienating a huge portion of the Democratic electorate.

she's not gonna drop out before super tuesday unless say edwards beats her in nh.

I just want to repost this for my own entertainment

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/01/Romneypacksudgeyes.jpeghttp://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/01/Romneypacksudgeyes.jpeghttp://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/01/Romneypacksudgeyes.jpeg

literally the most terrifying .jpg on the internet

like, romney rectal examination> tubgirl> goats> 2girls1cup

goatse, even.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/f2/200px-Gumby_pokey.JPG

That WP article is mostly about Huckabee (and, to a lesser extent, Edwards). And, in that regard, George Will is a Madisonian ''establishment GOP'' hack (i.e., for free markets and limited gov't; not an evengelical). A smart, articulate hack, to be sure, but a hack nonetheless.

-- Daniel, Esq., Saturday, January 5, 2008 12:41 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

oh im fully aware of that; even though that article is 'mostly about' huckabee, those points are the most redundant in the discourse right now. The more interesting parts to me are his take on the dem candidates, and i think he really gets right to the point about what is grating about edwards (in the larger sense, i'm not about to get into his specific economic points and easy dismissal of corporations as the root of all evil)

daniel, esq 2008 = kingfish 2004

haha, thank God somebody else is there to dump links everywhere. There's no way i'm going back to heavy blog reading, due to anxiety levels and current non-desk-based job.

Altho, fun comment on Balloon-Juice about how when the BSRW machine comes about to aim at Obama, you just know they're going to start whispering about how he secretly fathered two black daughters.

Further confirmation of the biiiiig Iowa bump this poll conducted yesterday and today has Obama beating Clinton by 12 points in NH.

What is Wisconsin and why is it so unimportant?

What is Wisconsin? That is one of the greatest American mysteries.

O_O @ poll

Obama: Ecstasy & Agony [Jonah Goldberg]

This is just a late Friday night prediction. But after reading this regrettable excess from Ezra Klein as well as all of the more reasonable but nonetheless hopeful, proud, idealistic and sincere sentiments of pride and well-wishing for Obama as the first serious mainstream black contender for the White House (some, but by no means all, of these sentiments shared by yours truly) , I think it's worth imagining a certain scenario. Imagine the Democrats do rally around Obama. Imagine the media invests as heavily in him as I think we all know they will if he's the nominee — and then imagine he loses. I seriously think certain segments of American political life will become completely unhinged. I can imagine the fear of this social unraveling actually aiding Obama enormously in 2008. Forget Hillary's inevitability. Obama has a rendezvous with destiny, or so we will be told. And if he's denied it, teeth shall be gnashed, clothes rent and prices paid.

01/04 09:14 PM

Obama's up by 12 in New Hampshire? Wow. There are waves and there are waves. Implications: (a) HRC better recover fast, while there's time and (b) I hope Obama's momentum draws off lots of independent votes, so that -- on the GOP side -- Romney beats McCain, to crush McCain's supposed "momentum."

I wonder how Obama's big lead will impact independents. Will they jump on his bandwagon or, realizing that he's going to win the Democratic N.H. primary anyway, do they vote Republican, where they have more of a chance to impact the nat'l race (presumably by making McCain viable)? Any information on how independents will vote in N.H.?

Hatch, your WFMU show is v. good, btw.

romney is totally the kind of pretty boy flake that reminds me of jack ryan, the dude he was supposed to run against in IL who ended up folding in disgrace after it was revealed he took his wife to 'sex clubs' and encouraged her to have sex in public

the dude obama was supposed to run against, rather

Shame on you, Jonah Goldberg, with your thinly-veiled call to bring out the angry white males to put down the ''uppity'' black candidate.

obama will win because white folks were afraid of the LA Riots. got it

Jonah Goldberg has no shame. He can't even understand the concept.

Daniel do you think Romney would be less threatening to the dems or do you just prefer him over McCain?

Romney is an easier matchup for Democrats. I don't want to face McCain.

sorry, haven't been keeping up with this thread, but:

has anyone caught footage of obama's speech today in NH? nothing remarkable, but the interesting part to me is that the only audio they have is a direct feed from his mic so you cant hear the audience cheering when they do; which was the same situation that led to the infamous DEANSCREAM.

they caught people cheering a few times during pauses, but i think they had to turn the gain on obama's mic way up or something.

not calling it a conspiracy but it was enough for me to notice it.

also they're showing extended segments of all the other major contenders speaking and obama's the only one who was set up this way.

romney is totally the kind of pretty boy flake that reminds me of jack ryan, the dude he was supposed to run against in IL who ended up folding in disgrace after it was revealed he took his wife to 'sex clubs' and encouraged her to have sex in public

http://www.animationalley.com/images/prints/mpa/mpa_trek9.jpg

lol

Romney wins Wyoming! Matt Drudge must scream it from the mountaintops!

sorry, haven't been keeping up with this thread, but:

has anyone caught footage of obama's speech today in NH? nothing remarkable, but the interesting part to me is that the only audio they have is a direct feed from his mic so you cant hear the audience cheering when they do; which was the same situation that led to the infamous DEANSCREAM.

they caught people cheering a few times during pauses, but i think they had to turn the gain on obama's mic way up or something.

not calling it a conspiracy but it was enough for me to notice it.

-- gr8080, Saturday, January 5, 2008 4:32 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

his voice has sounded so sore-sounding lately id be surprised if he was able to scream

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/us/politics/06donate.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

The candidate in perhaps the most enviable position financially is Representative Ron Paul, Republican of Texas, who has reported raising $19.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2007 over the Internet, about the same as Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton.

jesus christ

Yeah. Ron Paul is cleaning up, money-wise. It's the "libertarian/isolationist" wing of the extremely-fractured (but still potentially formittable) GOP.

lol @ fox news keeping him out of the NH debates

i think abc news did the same thing to kucinich??

or is doing, rather

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4089055

indeed

yeah but thats based on his inability to garner a large enough % of the vote. Paul is ahead of Thompson in NH and garnered 10% in Iowa ahead of Giuliani - certainly a sizeable enough portion to deserve debate time. kucinich was nowhere near that

i'm in no way a ron paul advocate btw, merely enjoying how he scares the republican establishment

Went back to Boise for Xmas and Jesus F., every other house has a big-ass Ron Paul sign. And I am guessing these are the majority of internends losers pouring $$$ into Paul's paypal coffers: people in backwoods location whose vote 'wouldn't matter' anyway. Like no one is ever really going for Montana/ID/Wyo's votes.

Comic-book villain-like Ron Paul scares the GOP establishment. Seemingly nice-guy Mike Huckabee terrifies the GOP establishment.

are any blogs liveblogging the debate thingie?

im watching it while i post to ilx :>

guiliani's smile is crepey

/old news

is this worth turning off the playoffs?

w/o ron paul around i'm gonna go with no

someone post if there is a romney/rudy throwdown though

ron paul is in this debate, its on abc

not after those last 4:00 minutes of play

xxp

haha i love the look mccain is giving huckabee while he talks about foreign policy

while huckabee talks about it

lol @ fred thompson turning into the tom tancredo of this race now

% of votes wise i mean

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/05/oreilly-gets-in-confrontation-with-obama-staffer/

^^o' reilly fights w/ obama staffer (shoving involved)

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/01/05/art.oreilly.ap.jpg
casual friday?

romney - "education that is not through madrassas ..."

how is this not the radio wtf

from TPM:

They shook hands and Mr. O’Reilly said he thought Sen. Obama was great and that he loved him and loved to have him on the show and said he would think about coming on after the primaries.

apparently obama turns o reills into a babbling 8-year-old

omg i just turned this on and giuliani is talking about 9/11!!!!!!

i mean what are the chances 95% at this point?

lol giuliani on a people perverted.

man, listening to rudy for .4 seconds is terrifying

he keeps saying "perverted" guys

they used "perverted" in his recent ad

i know! "a people perverted" amazing!

mccain's gotta love this romney v. huckabee stuff

LEADERS ASSASSINATED

xp

"which one?"

ZING

HUCKABEE ZING

gotta love mitt supporting "surge" behind closed doors

god ron paul so crazy mccain cracking up

giuliani brought it back to 9/11. drink!

i really like this debate format

THE DAY MY CITY WAS ATTACKED

ban rudy

at this point i like to think the other candidates are funneling him $$ for his provided entertainment

i want to run over mitt's sons w/ a hybrid SUV

"these will be the beliefs that i have"

giuloliani

omg "they came from god" someone plz put us all out of our misery

lone ron paul clapper after impassioned speech is kind of a microcosm huh?

i'm sure he was making it rain right after tho

this is on ABC?

god i hate republicans

yeah gr80

jesus ive got infomercials over here.

HILARYCARE

oh i guess they're delaying it.

i just switched to McLaughlin group

LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU

DJ FRED THOMPSON IN 2008

"I like mandates...Let me tell you what kind of mandates I like, Fred." -- Romney

Gah! I'm missing all of it. Are the GOP and Democratic debates both on tonight?

yessa

When this is over, a Massachusettes resident can tell me if Romney's plan worked. I'm genuinely curious.

if it hadn't worked i would imagine the other candidates would be hitting him on it, but it seems as if they are attacking his idea for a national plan and how 'his' state's plan would translate

but that's just speculation obv

"Let me defend our friends in the pharmaceutial industry"

Mitt says pharma companies are doing good work and then says people need better information about the cost and quality of stuff. Big Pharma's already spending 60 Billion dollars advertising those pills, bro, what more you want?

FUCK YOU ROMNEY

lol i just realized this is called 1 Night 2 Parties

i guess someone vetoed 2parties1night

Then the after party then the hotel lobby...

dude start posting debate reaction videos to youtube NOW!

reactions to 2girls1cup already accurately capture my reaction to this debate

what do they do during commercials? do they just zing each other like crazy? i hope

mccain stares at the ceiling thinking "i hate these assholes"

haha

They sit in silence and glare at Ron Paul.

You joke, but...

(xxpos)

i know right? its funny cuz its true

maybe I should watch this

GUYZ LET'S CHANGE THE SYSTEM WITH A TECHNOLOGICAL FENCE

AND ID CARDS THAT CANNOT BE TAMPERED BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE OUT OF DIAMOND

Whoa!

McCain hittin' back!

Romney: "What he says is technically true..."

so busted

FIRST REAGAN REFERENCE OF THE NIGHT!

romney is getting obliterated here

McCain is so on-point here that I may fall in love with him again.

SPECIAL QUEUE AREA OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY IN WHICH ILLEGALS CAN WAIT IN LINE.

eh. he's just a non-monster which makes him look good in this company.

xp

giuliani brought up reagan earlier xpost

Fred Thompson's awoken from a nice nap.

im starting to feel bad for romney

fred's awake

lollllll @ alfred

mccain with the zing of the year i think

A diversion:

One More Thing on Mitt and Health Care [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

Romney got applause from our debate-watching group here for defending the pharmaceutical companies.

Good for him.

romney getting zinged left and right

Giuliani may have just given the most human answer of his career.

Fred Thompson, back after enjoying a cigarette and ice tea.

Get that man a Red Bull.

thompson sounds like he's thinking aloud

"hmm, wonder what i think about this ..."

OMIGOD THEY'RE ALL ASLEEP.

i want to poke those bags

maybe they he keeps little pictures in there and pulls them over his eyes when he gets bored at these debates

Giuliani: "New York was not an amnesty city. We returned every ferret to its country of origin."

Anone knows where you can watch the debates online?

Jesus, can we get the pharaceutical companies to invest in a technological fence to get illegals to the back of their lines in their home countries?

What was the Mccain zing?

romney was bitching about being misquoted and mccain said "if you change positions as much as you do you probably will get misquoted, mitt" (or something to that effect)

Who the fuck elected Romney as debate spokesman?

Is Ron Paul popular with the Diggnation Internerds because all his solutions boil down to, "Ctrl-Alt-Delete" ?

ROMNEY FIXED THE OLYMPICS A+++ WOULD VOTE AGAIN

OOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

FUCK!

hahaha mccain can't control himself!!!!!! i love it

hahahaha

It was 10 minutes too late, and probably cheap, but it needed to be said.

Live stream:

http://www.wmur.com/video/14986153/index.html

he couldn't finish the zing without laughing!!!!

Wow he hates Romney SO MUCH

McCain, bending down to lick cream from a bowl.

OK, beneath his criticism, did Giuliani just hint that he's scared shitless of Obama?

This fag gives Huckabee credit for mentioning same-sex marriage OUT LOUD even if he's opposed to it; the others are totally avoiding it.

"vertical leadership"

Is Ron Paul popular with the Diggnation Internerds because all his solutions boil down to, "Ctrl-Alt-Delete" ?

probably b/c libertarian types tend to be nerds with far more socialization problems than your average ILM poster, so why not support the guy who wants to kill off lots of your fellow americans? End the oppression that IS the FDA and environmental protections!

huckabee big upping obama

he's smart

Zingfish!

UNLEASH COBRA'S TECHNOLOGICAL MIGHT

thompson confused

OMIGOD FRED THOMPSON WAS CAUGHT NAPPING

looool

"You can make a good case for oil being more expensive in the future."

Thompson is truly the most Reaganesque candidate.

i relate to thompson right now bcuz i know the feeling he's getting w/ the heavy eye-lids bcuz that shit happens to me all that time in class basically i feel you fred.

I am back and loving this. Thompson is on fire!

(Seriously, he's -- in some ways -- the real maverick on the GOP side).

SHUT HIM UP

it is his bedtime soon this late debate is cruel

"We need to avoid a more diversified situation."

THERE WILL BE BLOOD

GIULIANI: "WE NEED TO FIND OIL ON THE MOON"

Giuliani wants to go nuclear.

Giuliani: "WE SHOULD EXTRACT OIL FROM THE BURNING CARCASSES OF ARABS."

Christ, I disagree with almost all their positions, but Huckabee and McCain really are the best ones here. Look at Romney: he's uploading more information into his cortex.

Huckabee is v. smooth. I really hope Romney wins New Hampshire.

DAMMIT! IT'S OVER, AND I MISSED VIRTUALLY ALL OF IT.

Charles Gibson's got class. He should do this sort of thing more often. I especially like how his bifocals smirk whenever Thompson opens his mouth.

This is a nice touch.

Obama needs a sandwich

Huckabee to Obama: "I'll see you in October."

aw little rock reunion!

KISS! KISS!!

hillary looks pretty. dig the green.

"Bill Richardson! What're you doing here?!"

i imagine everyone tellin yo momma jokes

poor kucinich

Romney and Huckabee had an "oh shit" expression when the Dems walked on. Meanwhile Giuliani and HRC couldn't stop grinning at each other.

Huckabee to Obama: "I'll see you in October."

You callin' the primaries, Alfred? I'm noting predictions.

Charles Gibson's got class. He should do this sort of thing more often.

Yes! I nominate him to be the perma-moderator of all these debates.

Giuliani asked HRC to be his steady girl.

Can someone list all the zingers McCain had? I missed the entire debate :(

i thought they did a real good job w/ some hardball questions

It wouldn't surprise me if all the candidates onstage were debatign whether Richardson's suggestion of a tequila bar was a good one in that weather.

last zing i think was after romney started talking about how he was the candidate of change trying to get some of that obamadust to rub off on him and mccain said, "yes romney, you ARE a candidate of change" and then paused for laughter.

This was by far the best GOP debate I've seen.

romney got killllled

the best part of that zing was that he couldn't finish it w/o laughing

THEY ARE RECOUNTING ROMNEY ZINGS

step: "these guys hate romney"

Jesus, why are the GOP candidates focused on Hils when it's ROMNEY THEY CAN'T STAND?

http://www.facebook.com/politics/index.php?

lol

what does it say about you that the rest of the candidates in a presidential election have collectively decided to morally rise above you??

Step: Fred Thompson did well (LOLZ)

haha omg @ chart linked by kerm

what quaaludes was stephanopolis on that he thought thompson had a great performance??

http://i15.tinypic.com/6x62pf9.png
http://i15.tinypic.com/6x62pf9.png
http://i15.tinypic.com/6x62pf9.png

ban college

The same one deez guys are on:

Kathryn Jean Lopez:

An e-mail:

is like the dad in the room, listening to all the b**ching between the
brothers or the daughters, and then simply ends debate with a simple,
authoritative, but not loud statement of who will be punished and sent
to their room. Problem is, in a campaign, you have to be loud
sometimes.

loooooooool xp

The K-Lo post was about Thompson.

Could do with more pictures on this thread.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/nick-uptoeleven/hills.jpg

Unfortunately the girl is English, So no she can't. Can't have a donation neither.

"The Economy" won because that was the closest answer to "monetary policy."

Don't worry: Ron Paul will print less money.

ban Upt0eleven

take your lolcats zings back to 6 months ago plz

soooooorry