london mayoral election.
the number of pro-boris groups on facebook is terrifying. he is a tory, end of.
on the other hand, ken is vile.
i don't live in london, but i guess neither does bj?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 15 July 2007 20:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
if boris wins I may seriously have to think about moving out of London. He's the worst sort of Tory - the "likeable buffoon", insidious cunt more like.
― Porkpie, Sunday, 15 July 2007 21:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
hmmm in my temp capacity i'm watching the company that runs the tubes slide into adminstration. this could be v bad for the ken's chances.
― acrobat, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Why? Ken was dead against the PPP deal in the first place and has spent most of the past few years trying to find a way to sack Metronet.
― Hello Sunshine, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
to be fair i think ken did not want whatever nightmarish PFI set-up it is that runs the tube, i think it was imposed by our new PM. i'm not sure what ken's job is except for appeasing the labour left and weirdo islamists.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
well it would be very easy to play as his fault as certain folks around me seem to be doing.
xp
― acrobat, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Argh, why did I just register to vote? this may be the first election I have to participate in. How am I gonna do this?
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Boris will win this, if he gets the Tory nomination, which I wouldn't bet on.
― Matt DC, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
There's an "I love you but I can't vote for you" box.
Or is that a radiohead song?
― Mark G, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
You can be mayor of my heart, but not of my town, Boris my dear..."
Wait, no that's Suede.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
They should just have a bicycle race instead of an election.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
The idea that Johnson will win a mayoral election in the UK's most ethnically diverse city is hilarious.
― 597, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
If he does, I'm leaving London. He will only get in if millions of people vote for him because "he's a character". And I don't want to live in a city where people are so thick as to base their choice of elected representatives on such things.
Plus he thinks women should stay home and raise the kids while MANLY MEN go off and do work, hunt mammoth, etc. Which makes him a grade 1 TWUNT.
― Hello Sunshine, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
I give him roughly two months before he greets heads of the Muslim community by doing an impression of the dude from Short Circuit.
― 597, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
597 that's such bullshit. he's an evil tory but not a racist so far as i can tell.
whereas ken's anti-semitism won't exactly rock the golders green/hampstead garden suburb vote.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
The compere at the Rise gig yesterday said if we vote Ken they'll get Snoop Dogg next year. Good enough for me.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 16 July 2007 09:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
I love you but I've chosen Boris
― aldo, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
"that's such bullshit. he's an evil tory but not a racist so far as i can tell"
I think Boris's problem is that he's the sort of person who thinks doing an impression of the guy out of Short Circuit would be a jolly wheeze and would then be mortified and a little confused when someone called him a racist as a result.
― Hello Sunshine, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Clearly the stage is set for a plucky and possibly well-known independent with a populist cause to promote. Possibly something to do with hospitals.
Guys, I don't think Boris actually knows what Short Circuit is. Also what little credit I'd give him would be to know which gaffes fall on the 'acceptable' side of 'oh that Boris look at his bufoonish ways getting him into trouble again'. Pulling a comedy Indian accent = definitely on the other side of that line.
― Matt DC, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
after some pretty well-documented gaffes in that area from ken this is all pretty wtf.
wasn't the guy in short circuit sikh?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Precisely.
― Hello Sunshine, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
ok well, i don't think boris is that stupid.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't think he's stupid at all. Just an idiot. Two very different things.
― Hello Sunshine, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ken has been a good mayor, apart from the cosying up to the muslim right wing; the congestion charge and cheaper busses have been good, policing doesn't seem to be any worse, he has bugger all power over anything else. Boris must be crust and humiliated at all costs.
― Ed, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
crust = crushed
― Ed, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
someone at m4tron4t just suggested they "bring in alan sugar".
― acrobat, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Boris must be crust... what, so I can eat him with curds and whey?
Mostly I've been pretty happy with Ken. Except for the bloody stupid Olympics thing.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
simon cowell
― RJG, Monday, 16 July 2007 10:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
> and cheaper busses
what are these cheaper buses of which you speak? when ken came to power it was the 70p / 100p split, and a day ticket was £2... (now singles are £1 oyster, £2 cash and £3 daily. (or free if it's a bendy bus and you get on at the back))
― koogs, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
haha yeah otm. buses are not cheaper. nor is the tube.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
The Tube is cheaper if you have an Oystercard. And hey, what with the glorious new bendy buses you can travel for free most of the time!
― Matt DC, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Cheaper than what? I'm pretty sure a travelcard was cheaper pre-Ken than on Oyster, even allowing for inflation.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
have they ever gotten cheaper, other than during the GLC?
― stevie, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
the oyster fares themselves have gone up above inflation, i'm pretty sure. even then it's insanely expensive compared with its european equivalents.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
The idea that the tube should pay for itself through the fare box is completely out of Ken's hands, but it's a fucking travesty all the same.
― Pete W, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
cheaper buses??!?
oh xxxxxposts!
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
it would be interesting to see a pre- and post-ken comparison of bus fare vs. number of buses on the roads, the latter of which has gone up considerably since he became mayor (not to mention average bus speed); it's not just a simple jacking-up of price (cf. the new york MTA), there are concrete additional and improved services being offered for the fare increase
i think ken's great, he should be mayor for life. he's not who i would grow in a lab to be my Ideal Mayor, but look at the alternatives.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
but i thought the congestion charge money was going to be used to improve buses etc.
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
+i'm sure the metrocard was like $2 a day last time i was in new york, and you get 24 hour trains!
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
but yeah, boris for mayor sounds a bit crap. Can't we just have Arnold Schwarzenegger?
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Not seeing much in the way of improved or additional services on the Victoria line at the moment :(
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Do you really think that BORIS* would make the trains run on time?
Come on, this is a man who looks like he can't even match his socks in the morning.
*and I mean Johnson, no the Japanese noize band. Though having a Japanese Noize band for mayor might be quite good.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
No, I would definitely vote for Ken over Boris (or probably any of the other candidates). Just moaning.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
I know. I just don't want my FIRST ELECTION TO EVER HAVE VOTED IN, OR EVEN BEEN LEGALLY ABLE TO VOTE IN to have to vote against the man I want to father my children. :-(
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
The first election I ever voted in, I (indirectly, obv) voted for Tony Blair... oh such optimistic days etc. Worcester got its first ever Labour MP thanks to me though (well and partly due to redrawing the boundaries so most of the surrounding farmland got shifted to Wychavon or Malvern or wherever so the constituency only covers the actual city now)
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
poor children :(
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
red ken doesn't control the tubes though, does he?
ken c, those things are true of the MTA in new york, but remember that the subways are on about the same frequency - or less - than london buses. and also that the NYC bus system is a joke.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
red ken has also told virtually every PFI venture that's gone tits up that they can go hang if they expect a bailout from local government
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
i mean, as zany as boris is, could even he out-zany this deal that red ken made?? (ans: yes, but it would benefit a handful of his friends rather than a quarter million londoners on income support)
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 13:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
that is the right kind of zane
apart from the cosying up to the muslim right wing
jog my memory?
― blueski, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4165691.stm
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
peter watts linked a beef ken had with ed 'the islamist' husain on the today prog recently where ken got his ass handed to him.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Qaradawi is hardly a right-wing Muslim
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh god, I think I wanna have your babies...
I don't really understand all these "anyone but Ken!" haterz. Though I suppose the things that people complain about (the congestion charge) are exactly the sort of things I think make him a great mayor. These things may not be popular, but they make London a better place for the people that LIVE here.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
<i>Qaradawi is hardly a right-wing Muslim</i>
True enough, antisemitism is very left these days.
God, I sound like Nick Cohen.
― Pete W, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
not always
xpost
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
he's pretty right-wing, tracer. the ken of the '80s was, if memory serves, quite sanctimonious about LBG issues etc...
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
whereas boris is a fun-loving leftie
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
this thread is actually worse than boris being mayor would be.
― blueski, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
blueski for mayro
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
actually oh god no
ok, enlighten me on Qaradawi's right-wingness, i'm totally willing to be wrong here. but i remember poring over transcripts when that story broke in 2004 and finding nothing very remarkable about Qaradawi's views (the homophobia is unfortunate but unremarkable if you consider that the guy's a Muslim cleric; i mean, try asking the Archbishop of Canterbury how he's livin these days on that issue; still, Ken addressed the homophobia head-on)
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2007/07/blurring-the-li.html
gives some sense of the husain vs livingstone thing. i need to google "ed husain mi5 mossad" now to see how it's gone down.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
oh well, if the guy's a muslim cleric then i guess he gets a free pass.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
come on Galloway...
― blueski, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
galloway vs ken vs boris vs... littlejohn
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
"you coudn't make it up"
― Mark G, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
enrique i'm not giving Qaradawi a free pass; i'm giving Ken one.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
and i will continue to do so! forever! until he says something like "that Qaradawi guy has some good ideas about Jews."
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
that's what quitney hears ken say every time he opens his mouth.
― blueski, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
being a mod, you'd know all about being a NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMP GUARD.
jokes bruv.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
that's what i thought when i said "actually oh god no"
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
But leaving aside anti-semitism, what is Ken doing hanging out with somebody who believes women should be beaten (lightly and not around the face) and homosexuals executed (perhaps dropped from high windows or burnt, he's not quite sure how)? It is a bit strange.
― Pete W, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
exactly.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 14:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
"hanging out" - you make it sound like they're drinking tequila sunrises down at dale's clam shack
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
"what is churchill doing hanging out with somebody like josef stalin??"
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
ed husain for mayor
― Just got offed, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
actually, ken is the only one to have made a vocal guest appearance on a blur song
ken didn't have to literally embrace him and say he was 'truly, truly welcome'.
stalin had something to offer churchill. why does ken need to meet this guy?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
free tequila.
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
galloway vs. ken vs. boris vs. littlejohn vs. barnes vs. lawton vs. alibhai-brown vs. greer
― Just got offed, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
vs. a.a.gill
― Just got offed, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
vs. dom passantino
― ken c, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
"You coudn't make it up"
― Mark G, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
as a Gentile born many years after the Holocaust i take real offense to this.
i'm also really offended that someone (let's call them ken c) would hate the idea of me as Mayor Of London.
― blueski, Monday, 16 July 2007 15:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
This might as well go here - someone I used to work with just forwarded me this, smells like BNP to me:
We need to act now before its to late.Don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is apparently planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated £100M in the docklands.Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport facilities? Anything but such a scheme as this: The mosque will be BIGGER THAN ST PAUL'S!!!The plan is for the mosque to be so big so that people flying in from all over the world for the 2012 Olympics will see it as the biggest landmark in London, bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium.The vote so far is 56 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim community in the UK is casting its vote in droves, and as usual the British are burying their heads in the sand....It is an undemocratic use of British Tax payer¹s money, especially when our Churches that are 100's of years old get no government funding to keep their structures standing, and we are supposedly a Christian Nation.To vote to "Scrap the 'Mega-Mosque" please sign the official Government petition in the link below.http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/#detail http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/#detailAfter voting, forward this to as many people as you can.Thank you.
Don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is apparently planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated £100M in the docklands.
Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport facilities? Anything but such a scheme as this: The mosque will be BIGGER THAN ST PAUL'S!!!
The plan is for the mosque to be so big so that people flying in from all over the world for the 2012 Olympics will see it as the biggest landmark in London, bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium.
The vote so far is 56 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim community in the UK is casting its vote in droves, and as usual the British are burying their heads in the sand....
It is an undemocratic use of British Tax payer¹s money, especially when our Churches that are 100's of years old get no government funding to keep their structures standing, and we are supposedly a Christian Nation.
To vote to "Scrap the 'Mega-Mosque" please sign the official Government petition in the link below.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/#detail http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/#detail
After voting, forward this to as many people as you can.
Thank you.
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
in re my earlier comment about ken telling metronet to go f*ck themselves if they think they're getting a penny from the government to bail them out of their £2billion hole, that's only half right as today's news makes clear - metronet's tube deal is a PPP, not a PFI, and the structure of the deal means the public IS on the hook for the yawning debt metronet have racked up.
"Livingstone steps in as Metronet faces financial collapse" http://politics.guardian.co.uk/publicservices/story/0,,2128201,00.html
it still looks as though ken is going to try and figure out a way for the govt. NOT to pay for this, though, which is great
toynbee's column today about boris is a masterwork of rhetoric, and i think it's grebt
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Wow.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2127917,00.html
Much though I love Boris as a personality, I agree with pretty much most of the things she says about him.
Can't we invent some figurehead role for Boris to fulfill? Like, make him Lord Mayor of London, while Ken gets on with the real work of running the city?
― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
it sunk in last night what will happen when Johnson takes part in live TV debates for this (as Ken did). carcrash television that should kill his chances dead but probably won't somehow.
― blueski, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
colonel poo, here's a link that addresses that email:
http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/news.php?slug=Mayor-Attacks-Mosque-Email-Campaign&article_id=634
the key quote:
The Mayor repeated his past statement that "there is no proposal to use any public money at all for such a mosque; there is no link between plans for a mosque and the Olympics; and, as widely reported, there are actually no plans for a mosque on the scale claimed in the email."
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
Andrew Gilligan: "Boris has come to save our great city from Ken's ghastly empire of bureaucrats, bendy buses and earnest Cuban festivals."
what's he got against the enormous, ubiquitous Cuban community of 'our fair city'?
― blueski, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
the one thing in that toynbee column that threw me was her description of the Evening Standard as "London's only proper newspaper"
?? what does she mean?
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
i guess she means the only one people have to pay for
― blueski, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 10:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
I thought it was only proper evening paper?
― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Can't we invent some figurehead role for Boris to fulfill? Like, make him Lord Mayor of London, while Ken gets on with the real work of running the city?"
apart from tories and nimbys, does anyone but you want boris anywhere near london/anything?
― Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Obviously other people do, or else someone wouldn't be putting up the money for him to run.
And you can write off those people as "tories and nimbies" but that doesn't stop them from having a valid opinion, albeit one you don't agree with.
― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
it doesn't stop them having an opinion.
― Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah i think it must be a subediting error, she can't possibly have meant what ended up getting printed!
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tracer, thanks for the link, that's what I thought I'd heard about it. Mosque bigger than Wembley Stadium! It's Political Correctness gone mad etc! Wankers.
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
That Toynbee piece is boring rhetoric BUT she makes a valid point in that this could potentially be a massive embarassing disaster for the Tories.
It's also occurred to me that I have lost all perspective as to how popular Ken actually is. If he still is.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah matt it's not really provocative or counterintuitive but i just thought it was very neat the way she sewed it all up with "even if he wins, the torys lose"
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
plus managed to get "toff" and "sociopath" into the headline.. maybe she really does admire the evening standard after all!
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Livingstone has earned respect with the bravery and skill of his congestion charge, his London bus revolution and his imposition of 50% affordable housing on every development.
i did not know about the last part.
― stevie, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 11:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, these are great in principle but don't quite work in practice cos the developers tend to hive off the affordable housing element into a separate building, or with a separate entrance, meaning there's little integration and they don't hold their value. Plus, if you're buying in Zone 1, you still have to be on a decent salary (c30k) to qualify. Nice idea though.
― Pete W, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 12:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
facebook: 4 pages of boris groups only one anti. 4 pages of ken groups only two pro.
― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 12:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
i didn't know about the affordable housing thing either. but the £30k thin's even more bewildering - so you need a minimum salary of that to qualify? huh??
― CharlieNo4, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 12:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
acebook: 4 pages of boris groups only one anti. 4 pages of ken groups only two pro.
further proof if proof were needed that facebook is full of daily mail (probably just the Metro TBH) reading middle class wankers
― Ed, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 12:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yep, cos even if you're only buying 25 per cent mortgage/75 per cent rent the property is still worth 220k+ (for a one-bed zone 1 flat) so they want to be sure you earn enough to be able to pay that monthly charge without getting repossessed.
If you're out of zone 1 or have a big deposit, that's less of a problem.
― Pete W, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 12:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
if boris gets in i'm blaming Have I Got News For You?
― stevie, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 12:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
but how many of the pro-Johnson groups on Facebook are 'ironic' or at least based on appreciation of him as comedy character rather than politician or journalist. there must be a big bunch of people out there (mainly tories and nimbys i suppose) who claim to think he's great but wouldn't vote for him.
― blueski, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 13:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
metronet go into administration at 5.
― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 13:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Is that going to be good for Ken because he refused to spend £££££££ taxpayers' money to bail them out or bad because the tube engineering works are going to be even more delayed now?
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 13:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
there's no guarantee that ken won't have to go to the treasury, hat in hand, and ask for £2 billion to plug the gap
regardless, it's conceivably very good for ken because he opposed PPP from the get-go - now he can turn around and say "look where this kind of thing gets you" with the advantage of actually being honest and correct about it
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 13:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
apparently a third party has delivered $$$s
― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
there is now a "red ken can't be trusted" / "good old boris" conversation happening a few feet away from me.
― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
If there's gonna be a marked increase in "lol Boris Johnson is a legend" talk as a result of this I think I might actually murder someone
― That mong guy that's shit, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
the bloke opposite is now singing "keep the blue flag flying high". i think he is being provocative.
― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
this is clearly THE opportunity for Ken to seize control of the Tube, right??
apparently he said this to metronet employees: "You'll be working for us for a while, while we get this sorted out."
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
what kate said.
er, wait, i mean this bit about ken - Mostly I've been pretty happy with Ken. Except for the bloody stupid Olympics thing not any of the things about boris. and i'd add bendy buses. bendy buses in london and the olympics in london are both fucking stupid ideas, other than that me and ken are cool.
surely no one seriously thinks boris gives a shit about anyone other than himself?
― emsk, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah, even guiliani had a career as a firebreathing prosecutor behind him before he ran for mayor of NY
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
ken "can't be trusted", boris "is a laugh, he doesn't take himself too seriously". FFS.
― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
kill them now, no judge in the land would convict you.
― Ed, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
You know what my definition of trust is? "Would I feel comfortable if they knew the PIN for my bank account."
Yeah, I'd probably be OK with Ken having it. Wouldn't let Boris have it, even if he WOULD sleep with me.
― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
and earnest Cuban festivals
I went to this and it was great, exactly what London parks should be used for. It also had the biggest cross section of Londoners, in terms of age and ethnicity, I've seen anywhere outside of the tube network.
― Anna, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 15:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ken has been great a putting on a lot of new events and increasing the size of new ones. It feels like a european city. A lot more fun.
― Ed, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 15:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Plz to stop objectifying male celebrities. It is v sexist and wouldn't be acceptable the other way round.
― kv_nol, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 15:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
wait.. that thing about the mosque that's BIGGER THAN WEMBLEY?!?!?!?!?
and costing only £100M?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?
I'd vote for Ken just for that if that's the case?!??! That's bargain of the century!
― ken c, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 15:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
On time and under budget? İnşallah!
Hire them to upkeep the tube!
― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 16:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
OTM, I might just join that single anti-BJ group now.
― Just got offed, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 16:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
it's pretty ridiculous that that anti mega-mosque petition doesn't even mention Tablighi Jamaat
― blueski, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 16:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
MIKE READ OUT
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mike_read/2007/07/im_backing_boris.html
"I've spoken to lots of young kids in gangs or 'crews' as they prefer to be known..."
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 17:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
Boris reminds me of some people I went to school with. Cunts, all (except for Chuck Tatum and a handful of others).
― admrl, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 17:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
FWIW, I think Ken's good. Obv I don't live there no more but I like to see the place in good nick when I pop back for a visit.
― admrl, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 17:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
My choice for mayor would be someone like JG Ballard or Neil from the "Up" series.
― admrl, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 17:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Make Your Own Glitter Graphics
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 19:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
lol @ toynbee calling boris a toff. i mean, seriously.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 19:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
"i didn't know about the affordable housing thing either. but the £30k thin's even more bewildering - so you need a minimum salary of that to qualify? huh??
-- CharlieNo4, Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:43 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Link"
it's called 'shoring up the base' duh.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 19:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=780751356&context=pool-433899@N22&size=l
― Filey Camp, Wednesday, 18 July 2007 10:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's fucked. It's also fucked that a lot of normal, decent people I know are joining them.
― the next grozart, Friday, 20 July 2007 12:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Cameron doesn't seem to be doing too well with style over substance (particularly in ealing) so there is hope.
― Ed, Friday, 20 July 2007 13:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
as we are now sold politics as 'management' and have managerial politicians, its not a surprise that 'character' politicians spur interest, and its no surprise there are pro-boris groups on facebook, how many of those people would actually vote for boris is questionable, if only because how many of those people would actually vote at all...is questionable
― Filey Camp, Friday, 20 July 2007 13:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Anti-Boris facebook group
― Colonel Poo, Friday, 20 July 2007 14:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
321 members in three days -- you can't front on that.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Friday, 20 July 2007 14:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
mayors have a long history of being charismatic bastards, much more so than legislators have - viz "he's OUR asshole" - i think people sort of like their city being run by some raffish rake, as long he he gets things done - the latter part is the problem for boris
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 20 July 2007 14:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Shittiest thing about Facebook - you can't even look at it unless you are a member.
― Masonic Boom, Friday, 20 July 2007 14:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
um that's kind of a good thing?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Friday, 20 July 2007 14:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
My name-a Boris! I like sex! Is nice!
― JTS, Friday, 20 July 2007 15:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Opik Only One
I am not sure how I feel about the Cheeky Girls having any kind of influence on the running of Our Fair Cit-E...
And Warwick Lightfoot has an even better name...
― blueski, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 13:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
the cheeky girls would be better than this shower.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 13:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
As posted by Enrique
I am not Enrique. I suppose we all look the same to you, is that it?
― That mong guy that's shit, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 13:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
who all look the same to you? what?
what about John Big Issue Bird? He is considering standing as an independent.
― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 13:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't get uppity, mong guy.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 13:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
Always holdin the mong guy down
― That mong guy that's shit, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 13:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
He clearly doesn't measure up for the job...
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 19:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
Opik not standing now... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6926020.stm
The beeb are re-using urls so if you click on 'Lembit poised to enter London race' on the right hand side you get 'Lembit declines to enter London race'.
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 21:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Warwick Lightfoot is a very well known london tory. Tried to get Chelsea and Kensington whne Portillo got it and again when Rifkind got it. He must be getting pissed off with getting bumped by famous faces.
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 21:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gla/story/0,,2141480,00.html
― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 4 August 2007 15:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Paddick to run for Lib-Dems?
― The Boyler, Sunday, 5 August 2007 12:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Qaradawi is like the most liberal Muslim cleric in world whose liberalism has not taken him into heresy
― Heave Ho, Sunday, 5 August 2007 12:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
In an article written in October 2002, Mr Johnson described the Queen meeting "piccaninnies", adding that when the prime minister arrives in the Congo "the pangas will stop their hacking of human flesh, and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles to see the big white chief touch down in his big white British taxpayer-funded bird".
Make this man a symbolic figurehead for London tout se suite!
― Frogman Henry, Sunday, 5 August 2007 14:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
de suite bah
― Frogman Henry, Sunday, 5 August 2007 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
I would be more offende by that "big white chief" excerpt if it wasn't clearly being used as part of a scathing attack on the Prime Minister in question and presumably used with heavy irony.
I would be able to take the above defence a lot more seriously if it wasn't for the "piccaninnies" quote and, well, the fact that it's coming from Boris Johnson. Cunt.
I do wonder how much any of this will be used against him in any campaign, and more worrying, if it IS used against him, whether or not it will actually be damaging.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 5 August 2007 16:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
in a way it already is being used, just not directly. maybe mrs lawrence picked up the phone without prompting, but i wouldn't bet on it.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 5 August 2007 16:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
you can insinuate the shameful colonial history of the UK and how the PM's visit to the Congo represents a modern-day extension of it without using the words "piccaninnie" and "watermelon" and any politician with half a brain would have done so
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 5 August 2007 16:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tracer - yeah of course, that's kind of what I was getting at.
NRW - Re Doreen Lawrence - If she didn't, would it invalidate her point?
The best thing to happen in this campaign would be a no-holds-barred dirty tricks-fest of the "grrr you hate black people", "grrr you hate Jews" variety. I doubt this will happen because both will be too concerned about playing up their respective charismatic personas to the press.
Quite how this will play at a time when charisma and charm seem to be going out of fashion in British politics in comparison to heavyweight seriousness (cf Cameron/Blair vs Brown) and I'm still claiming a plucky independent with the right cause could clean up.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 5 August 2007 16:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
The best thing to happen in this campaign would be a no-holds-barred dirty tricks-fest of the "grrr you hate black people", "grrr you hate Jews" variety
They did "grrr you hate brown people", "grrr you hate Jews" in Bethnal Green and Bow two years ago. It was shit.
― Dom Passantino, Sunday, 5 August 2007 16:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Re Doreen Lawrence - If she didn't, would it invalidate her point?"
no, but i'm just saying -- it's already so on, per the title.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 5 August 2007 17:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah the Jews lost out bigtime.
You can also read the above quote as the (hopefully used) biggest weapon against Boris that he is more interested in being a journalist and professional celebrity than he is in being a politician.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 5 August 2007 17:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
edited highlights of um someone's facebook friends submitted here as statistical proof of something or other:
Boris For Mayor ▪ VICE MAGAZINE ▪ emo people suck and should jump off a bridge and die ▪ If You Don't Like Peep Show, You're Probably Not Worth Knowing ▪
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 2 September 2007 15:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't forget to vote for your Tory nominee heh heh
― blueski, Monday, 10 September 2007 17:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
a madman rants
― blueski, Monday, 10 September 2007 17:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
# Boris Johnson is MP for Henley drummer for Gay Dad
― stevie, Monday, 10 September 2007 18:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
to be fair, that is one of the more sane articles he's written, really.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 10 September 2007 19:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
his 'buses don't hang on for mums with pushchairs or old ladies with shopping because they're not operating on a passenger increase=funding increase basis' reasoning and how much he's hingeing things on it is just...staggering.
― blueski, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
he didn't want to lose potential voters by giving the real reason, ie bus drivers = bastards.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
I see bus drivers waiting for running mums/businesswomen/elderly/youth all the time.
― ledge, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
maybe it's just the likes of me that don't get waited for.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
― ledge, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
ken attacks
― blueski, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
i wish ken would stop with the 'has the most vibrant cultural life of any capital' baloney tho
i can probably accept the 'buses cost more because there are more, better buses' thing. makes more sense than whatever johnson is spouting about at least.
― blueski, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
woah, ken is on a 'law and order' tip.
london is a crazy place and to be honest given that it's the capital of the capitalist world, home to innumerable non-dom, non-tax paying billionaire crooks, with its housing market structured accordingly; of course it should be run by a soi-disant socialist rather than, you know, a tory. that's the british way.
thatsracist.gif
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
"a faster role out"? ken: geddan editah
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 10 September 2007 20:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Now it's for real!
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 08:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
warwick lightfoot?! i would have voted for him (her?) on spec.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 27 September 2007 08:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I mentioned him upthread - once again bumped by the famous name. I would imagine he would have done better (marginally) if it had been a Conservative Party only poll.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 08:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
lol
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 27 September 2007 08:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
I kind of feel sorry for him - he looks so optimistic on his website http://www.lightfootforlondon.com/
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 08:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
The job of the Mayor is simple - to get people to work on time, to ensure people feel safe on the streets...
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm sorry, I know it was obvious...
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
But seriously, what are his chances? I find it very difficult to gauge Ken's popularity. Obviously Johnson feels his best bet is winning the 'burb vote.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ken Livingstone 4/7 Boris Johnson 2/1 Brian Paddick 25/1
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
And what were the odds on him winning last time?
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ken, that is, obv.
I might put a coupla quid on Boris if those are the current odds
― Tom D., Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
what's the total turnout, and how does it break down, is the big question. in a nebulous sense probably more londoners would vote ken. but which londoners will actually vote is the thing.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 27 September 2007 10:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Andrew Boff is a great name
― ken c, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
i love the way that victoria borwick's surname can be frankensteined out of the other two also-rans' names. identikit conservatives!
― Just got offed, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
and add a 'w'
― Mark G, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
omg if boris does a speech saying "i looked up myself on facebook and found the group "boris johnson is a fucking tory for christ's sake"" then all these years on ilx will have paid off.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 3 October 2007 20:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes.
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=boris+johnson&init=q
First result!
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 4 October 2007 08:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Or is that cos I'm in it?
It's because you're in it.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 4 October 2007 08:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
using another login it would seem it is 5th
― acrobat, Thursday, 4 October 2007 11:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
If Boris actually gets elected that group's gonna have to become an organisational hub for hunting down and maiming the members of the pro-Boris groups.
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 4 October 2007 11:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
how does a mayor make a city more or less "multicultural" anyway? short of ethnic cleansing, i don't see how this is possible.
― max r, Thursday, 4 October 2007 12:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
More to the point how do you do it in a city where 1/3 of people living here weren't evn born in this country let alone within the city limits.
― Ed, Thursday, 4 October 2007 12:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
And at least they actually live there 24/7
― Tom D., Thursday, 4 October 2007 12:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
I sincerely hope Boris comes third or 4th.
― Ed, Thursday, 4 October 2007 12:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
too high
― blueski, Thursday, 4 October 2007 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
well yes, what I would like is for him to fall under the wheels of a number 15 bus but this is less liukely to happen.
― Ed, Thursday, 4 October 2007 12:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
Is that the 15 (heritage) or the bog standard one?
― Pete W, Thursday, 4 October 2007 13:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
A Routemaster would be sweet indeed
― Tom D., Thursday, 4 October 2007 13:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
A bendy bus would be more fitting.
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 4 October 2007 13:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Or being smashed in two by a revenge sumo headbutt from that German dude he maimed in the football match, whichever
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 4 October 2007 13:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
the group "boris johnson is a fucking tory for christ's sake" is packed with crypto-tory cunts talking about how rich people get where they are cos they work bloody hard at it. i guess i'm not a "big tent" kind of guy.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 14 October 2007 10:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/apr/03/livingstone.boris
ooooo
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ken's going to win this
― Tom D., Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
They really have been making an effort to tidy Boris' hair.
I don't know what to do. I don't really want to vote for Ken, but I suspect that a vote for anyone else is essentially a vote for Boris anyway.
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
People stupid enough to base their vote on what the leader writer of the Standard tells them rather than their own first-hand experience and observations deserve the Mayor they get.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
I met Boris once. He was exactly the same as his public persona. I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could think he could be competent as a mayor, never mind his politics.
― Zelda Zonk, Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tory support is highest in Outer London
Phear the Bushey Bible Belt.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
erm, single transferable vote.
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
What does that mean?
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
I predict Ken will scrape it. I also predict that whatever the outcome is, it won't make a vast ammount of difference to the average Londoner's life.
― chap, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
if boris does what he promises, it will, in the negative. but he won't.
― stevie, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
actulaly it's "supplementary vote"
if you don't vote boris or ken (and assuming they'll end up as top two), you can put one of them as a "second preference" and your vote will go to that.
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
God, English politics is more confusing than cricket. Sorry for being a dummy, this is the first election I've ever been legally allowed to vote in, in my life.
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's peculiar to council/mayoral elections - you only get one main vote in the generals.
― chap, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
So I can actually vote for the Nigel Havers Alliance or the Monster Raving Loony Party or whatever, but if whoever I choose doesn't get close, my vote can default to Ken rather than Boris?
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Be interesting to see how the LibDem second votes break down.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
OK, that's awesome. Who on earth shall I vote for?
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
but kate i thought you <3 boris
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
It makes the whole process rather more tactical. The Greens, for example, are advising their supporters to put Ken as second choice.
― chap, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
we all heart boris in a way. but at the same time think he's a vile, moronic tory cunt.
― Upt0eleven, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Matt DC, Thursday, April 3, 2008 11:25 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
43% to Boris, 30% to Ken, according to Yougov.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't even like his personal, I hate affable toffs.
(xpost lol LibDems outed)
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Persona, even.
Too right
― Tom D., Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
I want to make the sexing with Boris. I do NOT want to have him responsible for decisions that affect me or the city I live in, in any way, shape or form. I mean, I wouldn't elect Sonic Boom mayor of London, either! (Despite the "drugs and analogue synths for all" platform being a clear winner.)
Hott or not, I think my hand would physically cramp up and start twitching if I even tried to force it to vote for an Tory.
I guess it's Sian Berry, then. That was easy.
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
Indeed they are.
― onimo, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
'Right as opposed to left' as opposed to 'right as opposed to wrong' iykwim
― onimo, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
I heart Boris in the sense that I would like it if he died
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Be interesting to see how the LibDem second votes break down. -- Matt DC, Thursday, April 3, 2008 11:25 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link 43% to Boris, 30% to Ken, according to Yougov.
so that makes it what? 24 extra votes to Boris and 18 to Ken amirite lololoolololol etc
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
on the same day as Thatcher and the Queen preferably
― blueski, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Thatcher and the Queen dying on the same day would be beyond awesome, Thatch would be totally eclipsed!
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
In a bendy bus crash caused by Jim Davidson's reckless driving.
― chap, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bit like how Mother Teresa dying was eclipsed by Diana dying in the same week - well here in Godless Protestant Britain at least
― Tom D., Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
"she was the people's parasite..."
― blueski, Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Then again Thatcher's resignation defeat in 1990 bumped Khomeini's death off the front page so there'll be a few wanting revenge...
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
So many wicked people revelling in the prospect of a fellow human being's death. I am uncertain as to what she did that was so morally repugnant anyway, or in what sense decent folk would have been better off had she failed to be elected.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Wicked, wicked people, that's us.
― suzy, Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
1,2,3,4, get with the wicked
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
We started off as Decent Folk but ended up as Wicked People, thanks to Thatcher
― Tom D., Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
wood doctor? unlucky
― blueski, Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
So many wicked people revelling in the prospect of a fellow human being's death.
Like Thatcher did in the Falklands "war."
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's getting so hard to spot satire in here
― Tom D., Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
I met Boris once.
I was supposed to have dinner with him (and 300 other people, but he was supposed to be sat at my table) but the rude bastard turned up late, did his flustered toff act for a few minutes and left. Ian Hislop was quite annoyed by his rudeness.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
i saw him at highbury fields once. he was talking on his phone to someone.
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
he was quite fat
Yeah, I know it's silly but the fact is that the bastard uses this buffoon bollocks to hide the fact that he's an old school arrogant tory twat who pretty much thinks he can do what he likes and people will love him. And they do.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
I've saw him lots of times. On his bike. Jogging. Wandering about aimlessly.
― Tom D., Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
This blog probably best sums up my problems with Johnson, although admittedly I do wish for a more appealing vote than Ken, but what are you gonna do?
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 3 April 2008 13:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
He's one of the few Tories with actual face/name recognition power in the general public, so on that count, his schtick has clearly worked.
I'm actually kind of glad, in a weird way, that he did run for Mayor because, well - I used to think "oh, he's not really a proper Tory, ha ha, he's so cute and loveable and rides a bike and all!" but the moment he started actually opening his mouth and publicising his views, well, there they were. Cured me of that idea post haste.
Still fancy him, though.
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Well THAT certainly got my office's attention. s-post
A friend and I heckled Boris from the public gallery of the commons once. We were there on an economics trip and chose to call "Booooooooooooris. Booooooooooris." at him. Not imaginiative but did get his attention. And us thrown out.
― Upt0eleven, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'm going to become really fat in 4 years' time and run for mayor and win.
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
red ken vs fat ken
Fat Ken gets my vote!
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
If you maintain your message board presence would that make you the Fat Ken Troller?
― Upt0eleven, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://davehill.typepad.com/london3ms/
dave hill keeping a very good mayor blog here.
― Pete W, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://torytroll.blogspot.com/2008/04/bnp-say-back-boris.html
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.stopboris.org/
― Pete W, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
i might use LOLRUS festival as a launchpad for mayor 2012 campaign
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Masonic Boom, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
omg roflsburg
― ken c, Thursday, 3 April 2008 14:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
lolololol boris did coke! ken has five kids!
ken's quote is choice:
"I don't think anybody in this city is shocked about what consenting adults do. As long as you don't involve children, animals or vegetables they leave people to get on and live their own life in their own way."
i'm sure he's a great father to all three sets of kids and everything, but this is typical ken arrogance -- kind of saying f u and yr bourgeois morality to potential voter. of course, ken often sucks up to people who care *very much* what consenting adults do but hey-ho.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Not siding with Ken, but f bourgeois morality tho.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'm kind of indifferent on that score. if everyone's happy, kudos. im just saying, as a populist politician, it's kind of a dick move.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah it is but one of the many things I don't dig about politicians is sucking on the cock of popular morality.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think that's a pretty good way of killing the issue there and then - BoJo has been a bit of a shagger in his time as well and is unlikely to attack on those lines, while it goes "haha you and your ridiculous overmoralising" to the media.
― Matt DC, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
the media is only part of the "ridiculous overmoralising". people wouldn't buy rothermere titles if they didn't go in for it themselves. because he looks like an idiot and because no kids were involved, BJ's serial shagging is probably less of a liability. large swathes of london are made up of not so liberal types -- not that ken doesn't go in for ridiculous overmoralising or a certain form when it suits him.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
There's always the Darius Guppy stuff
― That mong guy that's shit, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
The only reason there were no kids involved in Boris's shagging is because he paid for an abortion. They're both potential liabilities on this score, which is why they've agreed not to attack along these lines.
― Pete W, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
I like Ken's statement and can't see why you have a problem with it
I hate BJ, like KL, so perhaps that explains my attitude
― the pinefox, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
actually, KL's siring all these kids makes me like him all the more, given the woes and worries catalogued on 'Do You Want To Have Kids?' thread -- on a issue said by all to be scary, he has been courageous ... 5 times
― the pinefox, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Think of his poor womb.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
i need to do some serial shagging before i stand for mayor in 2012
probably should do that before i become very fat too
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
johnson isn't so fat these days, and livingston never has been as far as i know
they can have as many rugrats as they like provided they all have to carry oyster cards if they wanna ride the bus for free
― blueski, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
large swathes of london are made up of not so liberal types
How many of these people are likely to be voting for Ken? I mean, it's a pretty calculated comment masquerading as an off-the-cuff joke, Ken knows that *his* support is unlikely to be eroded that much.
― Matt DC, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
has it been revealed yet as to which way do BJ/KL wipe?
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
pinefox, i guess it's because "As long as you don't involve children, animals or vegetables they leave people to get on and live their own life in their own way" the use of vegetables seems to make mock of the notion that we should try to not to "involve" children.
we don't know what they're "involved" in in his case so maybe he was editorializing too far anyway.
and for someone who regards driving a big car as immoral, it's a bit rich.
-- Matt DC, Friday, April 4, 2008 4:46 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
yeah i see that, but to win elections you need to reach outside your base? i don't know -- if i were a politician i probably wouldn't go out of my way to pointlessly alienate potential voters but he seems to do alright.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
he has 5 kids with different mums so that he wouldn't have to drive them to school all in the same car innit.
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
everyone seems to be glossing over the possibility of these children being ken/newt hybrids
― DG, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
That's some sick shit dude.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
so you think his statement suggests paedophilia is OK, and that's why you don't like it?
I don't think that's what he was trying to say.
'immoral' is a strong word, but KL is correct to think that some vehicles are more needlessly polluting than others, and has been bold in trying to do something very practical about this problem. I'm glad about this and I think it is another reason to vote for him. (exact results, nuances and implications of congestion charge no doubt = a complex topic in itself)
― the pinefox, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think it's maybe more immoral to do unnecessarily terrible things to the natural environment than to have consenting relationships with other people, which change and end, and are, I would generally think, private
― the pinefox, Friday, 4 April 2008 15:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
no.
i don't know what he means by 'involve' tbh, hence my scare-quotes.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
pinefox are you trying to say that you're going to be voting based on the candidates' abilities to apply practical and effective strategies to improve the living standards of london, as opposed to who has fewer illegitimate children?
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think banry thinks fathering kids "involves" them, and he has a point. But yeah, kudos to Ken for introducing a tax that disproportiantely affects poor people.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- the pinefox, Friday, April 4, 2008 4:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link
ech, either it's private or it isn't pinefox! i'm, as i said, indifferent; so i'm not going to moralize about it either way. the car thing is purely about revenue and of not much significance to the fate of the environment. calling it "unnecessarily terrible" is hyperbolic -- the difference between big and small cars doesn't justify it. i don't and can't drive so i'm ok saying this, i think.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
but i thought "small cars" are getting a reduction in the fees.
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
£2 reduction in fees compared to likely average income of big car/small car owners = lulz, insult, injury
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
So BJ took coke as a teenager. Rich bastard.
― Pete W, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
exactly
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think it's time someone posted that picture of teenage toff Boris at Oxford!
― Masonic Boom, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
wonder when cameron will have to take this particular plunge
What a haircut?
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
There seem to be nuff fuckwits in this country who like the firm smack of patrician authority for the poshness not to be an ish.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh god, yes.
― Masonic Boom, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
No 7 is the best, he's some kind of uber-toff.
― chap, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't understand this bit.. explain?
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Nah, 5 is the toffiest toff. I want to know who the unnumbered dude next to Boris is - he's definitely the most attractive. I guess he never ended up in politics.
― Masonic Boom, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
no 7 is DAN from alan partridge
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
I swear my brother went to school with no. 6.
― Masonic Boom, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
xxxpost
The charge disproportionately hits people on low incomes, like all indirect taxes, right? So giving peeps a reduction for smaller cars still means people on lower incomes pay more, as a proportion of their income, than wealthier people who are likely to be driving big cars and will happily pay a pittance for their right to do so.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Or can afford to buy another smaller car just to get cheaper drive round London fees.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
I keep seeing that new Citroen advert and thinking it's a Tory PPB.
I don't understand Banriquit's POV
pollution is bad and it's generally good when people try to do things to stop it
terrible things happen to the natural environment, as result of human actions; it is not in the least hyperbolic to say this
― the pinefox, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's a congestion charge, not a pollution charge.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
so what you're saying is that they're not making a big enough step in the reducing small car + hit big car thing?
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
reducing fee for small car i mean
Pretty much every tax that isn't income tax disproportionately affects the poor - some people have more money to use to their advantage than others; unfortunate, but that's the way it is for the time being. The congestion charge is not a Thatcherite ploy to fleece the less fortunate, it's a way of disuading people from using private vehicles in Central London, which is a good thing. A handful of people are hit unfairly hard by it, I'm sure, but that's unavoidable, and I'm convinced it remains a postive thing for the city on the whole.
― chap, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
and the charge is about driving through the congestion charge zone still, right? i guess poor people who live within the congestion charge zone gets it bad..
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- the pinefox, Friday, April 4, 2008 5:26 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
three separate justifications exist for the charge: congestion (the original justification), revenue (paddick says this is ken's real reason), and the environment -- ken's current public justification.
restricting transport in central london is less than a drop in the ocean in terms of global warming. it's nothing. to quibble about big or small cars is even more absurd.
far far far more has to be done -- you sound like a puffed-up idiot saying it's 'not in the least hyperbolic' to think that making drivers pay a few quid to drive in a few square miles of one city matters a damn.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
I generally don't like indirect taxation because of this bias against poorer people, ken. I don't live in London and I don't know what an ideal solution would look like, but I'd say if cities are serious about reducing traffic pollution they'll have to be more draconian i.e. near-compulsory park and ride schemes; and if you go the pay to play route then yeah there should be a system that's closer to being equally discouraging for all drivers.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
So I disagree with chap then but I'm basically a socialist.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
B: I'm not quibbling about big or small cars - I know nothing about them
I think that policies that reduce driving / traffic / pollution, anywhere, are good
and that it may take bold politics to achieve these, and KL has done that
no, it's not in the least hyperbolic to say what I said, which was: humanity does terrible things to the only planet it has - this is a fact. so it's good when someone tries to reverse or limit these in any way
sounds like you don't think any of us should do anything, pro-environment, in our own lives. OK, up to you, but others will differ
you don't sound very nice, above - that's a pity, and quite surprising to me
― the pinefox, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
I have socialist leanings myself, I just think singling out the CC as being part of some malevolent Capitalistic agenda is absurd. Maybe I'm being naive, but I think the intent behind it is good.
― chap, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't care about intent, I'm interested in effect. Indirect taxation seems very, very unsocialist to me.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
The environment, for some people, has become a kind of "somebody please think of the children!" trump card. But capitalism has played a good healthy part in fucking it up, so I think it's reasonable to be suspicious of a little bit of capitalist tinkering providing a serious solution: it's more profitable to pollute.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
how redistributive does a congestion charge have to be? shouldn't it be judged a success by how much it actually reduces congestion?
the identification of big car = rich, small car = not rich has a ton of holes in it, too, btw
you can kind of only tax a couple things at a time: where you drive (simple enough), how big the car is (yup), AND how much money you have (uh ok)?
― gff, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think I used enough "generally"s to make it clear I wasn't saying all big car owners = ver rich. Of course all small cars = not necessarily less polluting, too. If a congestion charge reduces congestion then yeah, it's done its job. But Ken, who probably still likes to think of himself as a socialist, ought to be aware of how his charge works. If you're wealthy enough, you can still drive into the centre of London as much as you want. If you're poorer, you can't. Maybe this isn't discrimination. Looks like it tho.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think your beef is with THE SYSTEM rather than this small and relatively benign part of it. As I said earlier, rich people can afford to do more stuff. Hopefully that will change one day, but that just has to be taken as a given the way things are at the moment.
― chap, Friday, 4 April 2008 16:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
helenlovejoy.jpg
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
reading comprehension time: you said that to drive in central london is to do "unnecessarily terrible things to the natural environment". this is plainly so far out of proportion to be hyperbolic. where do chinese coaul-burning power stations rate on your scale of environmental doom?
thinking driving a bigger car as opposed to a smaller one is of any global significance involves a dose of bad faith.
and in general thinking stopping people who can't afford a fee from driving in central london will have any effect on climate change is lunatic, and the charge was not introduced to do this.
sounds like you don't think any of us should do anything, pro-environment, in our own lives.
quite the opposite, to the extent that i haven't learned to drive. i think much bigger efforts are needed.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
proportion AS to be , chinese
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
coal
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
since when did having a car become a basic right? It's always been a luxury. Having a car in the city, no matter if big or small, means you're rich. The rest of us use public transport.
― danzig, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also even if the real motive isn't helping the environment, London should be commended for trying to get rid of cars. If you've been to any Asian city lately, you'll know you can hardly breathe because of the traffic.
― danzig, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Having a car in the city, no matter if big or small, means you're rich.
this is stupid, not been true for a very long time.
no-one is calling car ownership a 'basic right', but, on the other hand, i'm unclear where the right comes from for arbitrary taxation.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
Results 1 - 3 of 3 for eco-calvinism. (0.14 seconds)
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 17:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
i think who ever becomes London Mayor should try and introduce a congestion charge in China. is that what you're saying?
― ken c, Friday, 4 April 2008 18:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
thinking driving a bigger car as opposed to a smaller one is of any global significance involves a dose of bad faith
seems like you're talking about any individual as opposed to millions of individuals ie a big enough number for car size/economy to actually become an issue no?
― blueski, Friday, 4 April 2008 18:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah, but charging the consumer for driving a big car-rather-than-small makes it about personal choice -- and we're not going to turn things around that way. to make it real they have to hit Big Carbon.
(and the reduction of car use in central ldn during the daytime is still a tiny gesture.)
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 18:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lets have those stats for car ownership for the lowest income groups then NRQ.
Also, you ridiculous contention regarding the point(lessness) of the congestion charge is laughable. No-one is saying that it will change the world, but that it is important to take what steps one can, where you can. Claiming they made all the difference is idiotic; claiming that they make no difference is asinine.
The only people who think differently, of course, are new labour ministers, tories, and academic posturers who make nice sounding points on messageboards but are strangers to actual political engagement in the real world. Which one are you?
― The Boyler, Friday, 4 April 2008 23:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
oooooooooooooooooh
― DG, Friday, 4 April 2008 23:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
haha you dick, your guy said "only rich people" have cars. not "people above the lowest income groups" (which groups btw?). get your head out of the 1930s.
idea that only the rich own cars is palpably absurd. by all means, let's have those stats.
i don't know what your "actual political engagement in the real world" credentials are -- but this is a pretty fruitless line of argument to pursue: most people have no practical engagement. they are still entitled to think that pinefox's comment was hyperbolic.
if you think the charge -- which i'm not even against as such -- is about saving the environment yr a bigger idiot than i already thought.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 23:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
i don't know what your "actual political engagement in the real world" credentials are
he predicted alan johnson would succeed tony blair
― DG, Friday, 4 April 2008 23:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
Alol Johnsontory
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 4 April 2008 23:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
anyway, to answer the question, i'm a new labour minister.
― banriquit, Friday, 4 April 2008 23:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/14/charliebrooker.boris
― caek, Sunday, 13 April 2008 23:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
Calvin Trillin's take:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/04/14/080414fa_fact_trillin
(I guess they're not sharing the whole article.)
― Virginia Plain, Monday, 14 April 2008 02:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm genetically predisposed to hate the Tories. It's my default, hard-wired position.
except blonde and pretty ones if i hear right.
― banriquit, Monday, 14 April 2008 08:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
But Boris isn't that pretty
― Tom D., Monday, 14 April 2008 09:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
That C Brooker piece pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.
― Zoe Espera, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
The extent to which Ken's caught up with Boris in the polls should be alarming for the Tories. The Evening Standard needs to have a humdinger of a story up its sleeve I think.
― Matt DC, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also "too close to call" elections usually fall to the incumbent, right?
― Matt DC, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
Fuck the Standard, they were quite happy to employ his partner for years.
― suzy, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think the STV voting system favours that. Also Mr Johnson is having to open his mouth more and more which was always going to be the problem for him.
― Ed, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Which way is the Sun leaning?
― Matt DC, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tee hee! Boris has had an affair! Arf! Now he's offended the whole of Liverpool! Crumbs! He used the word "picaninnies"! Yuk yuk! He's been caught on tape agreeing to give the address of a reporter to a friend who wants him beaten up!
8 million bald people fighting over two combs.
― banriquit, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Monday, 14 April 2008 10:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- banriquit, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:18 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link
Courtney Love isn't a Tory. Or pretty
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 14 April 2008 10:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 14 April 2008 11:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
is that just the Standard's own poll? i have trouble believing Boris was ever really that far ahead in enough Londoner's minds - but wilful optimism maybe
― blueski, Monday, 14 April 2008 11:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think the standard's polling sample is the 17:37 Waterloo to Epsom.
― Ed, Monday, 14 April 2008 11:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Matt DC, Monday, 14 April 2008 09:21 (2 days ago) Bookmark Link
So yeah, what's this I hear about Ken's campaign being run by a guy who loves suicide bombing?
― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 12:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
i wouldn't mind that, but running it out of the nonce wing of wormwood scrubs... has he no respect?
― banriquit, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
What does current Scrubs lanky jailbird with hat on Pete Doherty have to say about all this?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 12:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Use of the word 'runs' in the headline might be overstating it a bit:
An advocate of suicide bombing is among leaders of a group trying to mobilise Muslim voters to back Ken Livingstone, the Standard reveals today.
For the past year, the group has been working on a strategy to win an estimated 200,000 Muslim votes in an effort to re-elect the Mayor.
It includes a campaign of vilification aimed at his Conservative rival, Boris Johnson. It is being waged by Muslims 4 Ken, led by 39-year-old lecturer Anas Altikriti and Palestinian-born Azzam Tamimi, a supporter of Hamas, the militant group dedicated to the creation of an Islamic state of Palestine.
While Mr Altikriti says he abhors violence and favours dialogue to further the Muslim cause, Mr Tamimi has praised suicide bombers and said he would volunteer for a suicide mission in Palestine.
"For us Muslims martyrdom is not the end of things, but the beginning of the most wonderful of things," he has said. "If I can go to Palestine and sacrifice myself I would do it. Why not?"
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-mayor/article-23478705-details/Suicide+bomb+backer+runs+Ken%27s+campaign/article.do
― James Mitchell, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 12:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
'Muslims 4 Ken' is a blog hosted on blogspot.com, by the way, not an "Islamic alliance backing Ken's campaign".
The Evening Standard enters the 20th century. Well done, them.
― James Mitchell, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 13:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
BORIS PLEDGES: "NO JAY-Z GIGS IN LONDON ON MY WATCH"
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 13:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
Boris: "There's a new music that's taking over the country..."
― Tom D., Wednesday, 16 April 2008 13:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
it's amazing in a way that the ES has held back as much as it has -- they could hit ken's economic adviser john ross and the otehr ex-socialist action menks a lot harder if they wanted. perhaps they're holding back on that.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 13:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Boris wants to ban drinking on the tube. Now I dunno about anyone else, but I think most people who are drunk and causing trouble on the tube probably were already drunk when they got on there.
I just called my local authority to confirm I don't need a polling card to vote, cos the fuckers still haven't sent me one. Luckily I don't need one, and apparently don't even need to bring ID with me to vote!
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
i've drunk on trains so it's probably better to not be hypocritical and just say they should ban rowdy, sport-liking fuckwits rather than drink per se.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
What's it got to do with liking sport?
― Tom D., Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm biased because I personally enjoy having a beer on the tube, and will be mightily annoyed if I'm to be arrested for doing so.
I think it's already technically illegal to drink alcohol on tubes anyway, just not enforced.
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
there does seem to be some correlation between the two, tom, but yeah i was basically trolling there.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Enrique gets a little tearful when there are nasty rough working class men near him on public transport.
― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
even a stopped clock^^
― banriquit, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
(tho i was gonna put 'rugby-shirt wearing' initially -- aaaaaaaah)
― banriquit, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
the amount of time it takes to get from east to west on the Hammersmith+City (yes, I know i shouldn't bother with the H+C anyway) without a bottle or two i'd sober up by the time I got home. can't be having that.
― Upt0eleven, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
What the fuck is Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman's problem?
― Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
banriquit is Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman's problem
― Tom D., Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
lady if you have to ask
― That mong guy that's shit, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'd like Ken FTW but does this really affect anyone outside the M25?
― Thomas, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes because voting for Boris = letting the Nazis in BY THE FRONT DOOR
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'm sad i missed Johnson's "I'm down the with ethnics, you can't out-ethnic me" trolling on Asian Network, as referred to on The Politics Show
i can't get with this 'beer on the tube' mindset tho
― blueski, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
ok by me if they ban champagne-sloshed toffs on bicycles too.
― Thomas, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
beer on the tube is almost as good as beer in the shower
― That mong guy that's shit, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
very few things are as good as beer in the shower.
― Upt0eleven, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Smoking in the shower
― Tom D., Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Glass of wine in the bath
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
A good zing
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
If Boris wins will it give the Cameron bandwagon momentum? Or will he be worried that Boris will fuck up badly and spoil it for Nu Con?
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Banriquit not gonna be pleased with this one.
― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
I usually have my slave serve me Pimms on the train, will this be banned too?
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
Depends where they're pouring it, I guess.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
*ponders strategic trip to london*
seriously, fuck one boris.
― grimly fiendish, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 23:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
joyously, an old friend of mine got to take the piss out of boris and his campaign manager today. to their faces. for some time.
london, FFS, don't vote for him. i know ken's a tit, but he's NOT BORIS.
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 24 April 2008 20:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
.... to vote Boris is to..
― mmmm, Thursday, 24 April 2008 22:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
A vote for Boris Johnson is a vote for Fascism. May God have mercy on your soul if you vote Conservative.
And I mean that most sincerely folks.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Anyone watch newsnight yesterday? thoughts?
― Thomas, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
it was short-sighted of labour to bring in the idea of a mayor; it's come to represent the future fortunes of the party. london is disproportionately labour, so a win is not that much of an achievement, and a lose comes to look like a BFD (and, well, it will be). all this over a guy whose main job is rimming developers and running the buses.
― banriquit, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
A vote for Boris Johnson is a vote for Fascism. May God have mercy on your soul ruthlessly sodomise you with a bale of barbed wire for all eternity if you vote Conservative.
― Upt0eleven, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
london is disproportionately labour
whoah ... explain please?
― Thomas, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
If only Brian Paddick didn't feel the need to impersonate a stuffed bear every time he's on TV.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
in the GE london isn't exactly a 'swing state'.
― banriquit, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
so the symbolic value of labour winning is far less than that of a tory winning.
― banriquit, Friday, 25 April 2008 10:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah, read it again and got the meaning second time. At first i thought you were implying London ought to vote con/lib but somehow always ended up Labour.
― Thomas, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
it's been a very strange election campaign, at least seen from outside, almost entirely based on the two candidates slandering each other. there probably are a few people who would vote for a candidate on the grounds that they'll raise the congestion charge to £25 for people in big cars, just as there might be a few weirdos who want to see the routemaster back. but most of the slanging has been about who's a bigger racist/anti-semite/islamophobe/useful idiot of islamists.
― banriquit, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
I do get the impression that they're like two good mates trading banter though. Its more a sense of who can ridicule the other in the most creative way than the knives really being out
― Thomas, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
aka the London Election Zing Crew
― Thomas, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
the real arguing is done by proxy -- cf a million evening standard articles about ken's trot cronyism and a million guardian pieces on boris using the word 'picaninnies'.
― banriquit, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
The Standard headline boards are the worst aspect of this campaign.
― Ed, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
otm
― ledge, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
I do get the impression that they're like two good mates trading banter though
definitely. some back-slapping as they walked off the set at the end of last night's Question Time.
― blueski, Friday, 25 April 2008 11:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
i have been sorely tempted to grab these and through them in the thames, when greeted by them at waterloo station
― stevie, Friday, 25 April 2008 13:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I have been sorely tempted to grab the Evening Standard leader writers and throw them in the Thames, but it's a bit of a walk from High Street Ken.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 25 April 2008 15:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
High Street Ken vs Red Ken
― ken c, Friday, 25 April 2008 15:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Just got a Boris-promoting leaflet through my door in which he boasts he's going to withdraw the free bus passes of all the young people who break the Behaviour Code on buses. I really wish he meant he was going to confiscate them personally and I would have liked to have seen him fecking try.
― Zoe Espera, Sunday, 27 April 2008 16:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
I hope Boris and people intending to vote for him know that this is already the case.
― Ed, Sunday, 27 April 2008 16:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
I hope Boris and people intending to vote for him die.
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 27 April 2008 17:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
There is one photo in the leaflet that drips smugness. He is SMIRKING in it! Which either means his pr peeps are really thick or they really are playing up to the lovable buffoon thing.
― Zoe Espera, Sunday, 27 April 2008 17:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
I might burn it, actually, it's ruining my afternoon.
Fuck, the galloway bus just came by and I had nothing to throw.
― Ed, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
you should have thrown yourself
― Upt0eleven, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
The fucking Galloway bus went past me again on Saturday, dude is stalking me clearly.
― Matt DC, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Are people really going to vote for Boris because he's "funny"?
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
He's not funny
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
He's "funny".
― Raw Patrick, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm hoping that there are very few who would vote for him only for that reason.
― Zoe Espera, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
The lib dems have put three leaflets through my letterbox in the last two days. Live in Hounslow, where apparently EVEN KEN would vote lib dem (so they're claiming). There are a whole load of charts explaining why this is the case but...ahem, recycle bin.
― Zoe Espera, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
i wonder if anyone is voting for sian berry 'cos she's quite fit'
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
me
― DG, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hmm, can't decide:
― Upt0eleven, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Berry does look attractive, when I see pictures of her.
I don't believe in "'funny'". Either you're funny or you're not. BJ is not.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Believe this is called getting the student vote.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
she is fittest out of the four.
i would vote green anyway, out of contempt.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
But there aren't any other reasons to vote FOR Boris are there? (As opposed to voting against Ken.)
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
All of the London students on my course who I've asked about Boris/Ken say they are heading back to uni this week and are therefore not heading back to London again to vote.
― Zoe Espera, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
(Even though their university is only in Surrey.)
― Zoe Espera, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
members of my family are actively campaigning for boris :(
― DG, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
To suggest a possible answer to Tracer: incipient Toryism still the love that dare not speak its name, especially amongst under 40s, so "because he's funny" may well be cover-phrase for "because I am repellent Tory shitebag".
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
I was going to put Green as my 2nd choice, but I'm not sure after that whole "taking a taxi is greener than taking an empty bus, even though the bus is going to run anyway you stupid twat" thing. I guess Paddick might as well get it, it's not going to matter anyway.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
not sure many people vote FOR ken, do they, as opposed to against boris?
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
^^
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, when I hold my nose and tick the Labour box for our local elections on Thursday it's not cos I want to dick-ride Gordon Brown et al.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
i wasn't going to vote anyway but turns out i will be in london rather than where im registered so fortunately i go through this teflon style.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Well Boris wasn't running in the last mayoral election and Ken managed to get in.
The only real problem I see with Ken is that he rolls over for any property developer with a business card. But his "rule" that 50% of all new housing be affordable is unheard of in, say, the US for instance, and mitigates this for me some.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
I will vote for the Labour candidate and against the Conservative one.
I suppose I will tick second preference Green though I guess that won't do them any good.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Let's hope for your sakes, London, that this whole Boris For Mayor stuff is just one elaborate Rickroll at everyone's expense.
― King Boy Pato, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
For what it's worth, at the last election I voted in, I voted the Green candidate because she was a BBW. To my shock, she got voted in.
― King Boy Pato, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
I heard some folks plan to tick Green first Ken second, claiming it will Send Ken A Message but not actually hinder his chances - the theory being that Boris won't get over 50% of 1st choice votes so all those 2nd choices will count for Ken. Does that makes sense? Strikes me as risky.
― ledge, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
I briefly considered doing that, but it's not worth the risk. BORIS SURGES AHEAD IN POLLS etc.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
In our local elections...
One very glossy/professional leaflet from the Tories,
One medium cost printed picture leaflet from LibDems, plus doorstep visit from candidate herself,
One photocopied a4 sheet (no pics), from Labour.
Guess which currently has no seats on our council, and aren't exactly holding breath...
― Mark G, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
I still wonder whether enough voters actually understand Second Transferable Vote to make this fannying around worthwhile.
― Matt DC, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Our current Lib Dem councillor is using the "tidal wave of ever more chummy, ever more horrible leaflets thru the door day after day after day", the Sean Hughes-looking crypto-Tory tossbag. Unfortunately I figure he'll keep his seat.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
i like the idea of 'affordable housing', though it's aimed at people who earn "less than £60,000" which is not exactly the neediest sector of society! it's also skewed toward trad state employees, which i don't understand -- working for a "contractor" for the nhs,* doing work that the nhs used to do and has to do, i'm not sure why i'd be less eligible.
*it's more complex than that but...
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
incipient Toryism still the love that dare not speak its name, especially amongst under 40s
It feels like 1992 to me. All those liars who said they weren't going to vote for Major because it was slightly embarassing to admit it in public, once in the privacy of the polling booth, reverted to type.
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Under STV it's OK to vote Greens 1, Ken 2 because Ken will get all those votes when the Green candidate is eliminated. Just make sure Boris is your last preference, alright?
― King Boy Pato, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Presumably a significant proportion of Boris's votes (whether he wins or loses) are gonna be anti-Labour rather than anti-Ken?
Fairly sensible of him to go purple rather than red for his campaign literature though.
― Upt0eleven, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
As DC has just said - I'm not sure I understand the system. I'm less sure after the last few posts here. I think I'll just have to vote for Ken Livingstone and be happy with that.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
I wonder if I know anyone who will vote for Boris. It is possible there could be one or two - but even those likely to vote Tory in next election might feel Johnson's inexperience rules him out.
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
He may be inexperienced but Boris is the candidate of CHANGE and HOPE.
YES
WE
CAN
― Upt0eleven, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
Johnson did make me laugh last week. He was answering questions put to him by various people via youtube clips and when one hooded teenage boy did his turn Johnson responded by mocking the kid by going "Yeeah!" and an attempt at finger-snapping in a way that seemed more playful than anything else. But I'm easily amused.
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
I thought the transferable vote thing was fairly well-known but my boss (who studied political history and is always having 'discussions' with any foreign members of staff about what's going on over 'there') had no idea about it, and was slightly incredulous when I drunkenly tried to explain it the other day to him. So maybe not.
Looking at the results from 2000 and 2004 it seems most people do use the second vote, but they seem to use most of their 1st votes on the big three, and then spread it about with the secondary, which suggests people don't understand how it works.
― Bocken Social Scene, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Look here, a quick STV example for you stupid Englishers!
Say you vote like this:
1. Fit Greens Bird 2. That Gay Lib Dem Dude 3. (A Message To You) Ken 4. That Idiot Boris
Now let's say after the results come in that the Greens candidate has the least amount of votes. Well, all his votes get sent to the next preferred candidate on the voting slips. In that case it goes to the Lib Dem. Now it looks like this:
1. Lib Dem 2. (A Message To You) Ken 3. That Idiot Boris
Now with the final three, the Lib Dems have the least amount of votes. That means his votes including those second preferences from those originally voted Green will go to your NEXT preference on the voting slip...
1. (A Message To You) Ken 2. That Idiot Boris
Therefore, Ken gets your vote in the end yet a message has been sent to him. Ken stays Mayor with his lesson learnt whilst Boris goes on a profitable tour of Universities across the country with his LOLcat Powerpoint Slide Show.
YES, IT'S THAT SIMPLE
― King Boy Pato, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
this background image amuses me too http://www.backboris.com/images/header_blue.jpg
"hmmm, fillet mignon or the sea bass?"
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Livingstone's result as an Independent in 2000 looks stunning to me.
Thanks, King Boy, for your help, but I'm still not sure I have got the hang of this, so I had better stay safe and simple as possible.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
However, if you feel like just voting Green or Lib Dem, just give them the No. 1 and your preferences will be directed automatically according to their wishes. Which should mean it'll go to Ken instead of Boris (well, I hope for their sake).
― King Boy Pato, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah, ken winning against a tory nonentity who was dropped in after jeffrey archer got done for perjury was a real shock.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
He won against a Labour nonentity as well! If by 'nonentity' you mean 'former cabinet minister'. Actually this goes for Norris as well.
― Matt DC, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
no the shock was more his ability to undermine Labour (candidate) at the same time, as well as he did - crap tho Dobson also came across as. xp
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
did anyone here NOT vote Ken in BOTH of the previous elections?
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Me - I didn't vote.
Mind you I wasn't eligible to vote in 2001 as I moved to London in June.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
look at all you tourists
― DG, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Terrible innit? Especially as the first Mayoral election was in 2000.
I was living in Oxford at the time, however, so couldn't vote.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Was it 2000? In that case I was even less eligible to vote.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ah yes it was the General Election in 2001. Didn't vote in that either come to think of it. That's apathy for you.
"Donut mayor": good political meme/bad political meme?
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
I have been looking through a Mayoral Manifesto leaflet.
First up are the BNP. They begin: "Remember London the way it used to be? Clean, friendly and safe". I find this implausible. Does anyone remember such a London? It was doubtless cleaner re. pollution etc, but is possibly less polluted now than say 30 years ago? Not sure about this - but the river for instance. It's true that there is a lot of terrible behaviour in London, but I don't think that means it used to be friendly, or safe. I don't really remember it that way, having lived here most of my life.
They also quote a woman who says she is voting BNP because she's Irish and they care about 'the indigenous peoples of these islands'. I'm not sure this a coherent position. If they're the *British* National Party, then surely to stick up for Irish people in Britain is just opportunism on their part?
The BNP's logo looks ugly to me; maybe this just chimes with the sense that they are ugly in some deeper way too.
Lindsey German of left list looks old, though some of her policies sound decent.
The Tory manifesto features a load of BS language - 'Beef up the police presence' and 'Stretch the taxpayer pound'.
Sian Berry does look lovely! and she is younger than me, for heaven's sake. I would love her to be Mayor of London, I suppose.
Brian Paddick's yellow / purple colourscheme is odd. I do feel, though, that a veteran senior cop, who also considers himself a liberal, ought on the face of it to be a good candidate for running London.
Alan Craig stands for Christian Choice. He wants to champion people including the unborn. I was amused by his promise to 'End the (alleged) corruption at City Hall'. The legalistic (alleged) utterly undermines the force of the promise.
The English Democrats seem anti-Scottish - this seems obnoxious to me. I like Scotland.
Ken Livingstone comes last. The whole left page with just a picture of his weary old smiling face and not many words; the right page listing achievements and what needs to be done. I was struck by the authority of this presentation, against all the others. It stands out, visually, from them all. It confirms my affection for Ken Livingstone and my desire to see him elected.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Remember London the way it used to be? Clean, friendly and safe"
― DG, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
but you could leave your door open and they loved their mums
― onimo, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
I had exactly the same feeling about Ken's page in that pamphlet (although I thought he looked well cheesy in the photo). Just soooo much more pro than the others. V effective.
― Zoe Espera, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
(Maybe he was going for the new austerity aesthetic.)
Goodness, that shot of a bombing plane is just remarkable.
That is nice to know, Zoe (austerity or no). I suppose my feeling about photos of him is different - I look at him and see a man in his 60s, his face sagging, bags under his eyes, most of his hair gone, no claim at all on glamour - just a sort of droopy-eyed smile, and a lot of wry knowledge and experience in his gaze. I like something about this - the way he can be an attractive candidate without being physically attractive? (Don't know where his 5 children etc fits with this.)
In what I've seen of debates, he's been calm and 'statesmanlike', perhaps deliberately against the table-thumping bombast he knew BJ would bring; I like this too. He impresses me; I realize that others don't share that response.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I got the booklet today! I guess I'll vote for the Green lady, not sure about the 20mph speed limit though.
― jel --, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
Jel, I hope you will vote Ken 2nd. Though of course you may not want to listen to what anybody else hopes.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lindsey German is "old", I guess. I wonder why she doesn't receive the same sympathetic words that Ken's wrinkled face provokes? I heard her speak once and I liked what she said.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 16:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
You're right, Hand - I apologize for the inconsistency. I just don't feel like I am 'supporting' her in this election, so I am not turned on to sympathizing with her. And something puts me off her historically, re. SWP / Respect / whatever. I had never seen a picture of her before an hour or so ago, so it was a surprise to me, how old she looks. Like I said, maybe the policies are good. I don't think people should be disqualified because they're old, unless they really are too old.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 17:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Fantastic clip of Paxman owning Boris 'LOL U LEGERND!' Johnson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EujXtSlOwA
― James Mitchell, Monday, 28 April 2008 17:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
but is possibly less polluted now than say 30 years ago
I keep forgetting that 30 years ago was only the 70s. London (and every city in Britain) is cleaner than it was it the 1970s, don't let anyone tell you any different. Of course, the BNP is probably talking about the 50s, before all them dirty foreigners arrived with their smells and garlic breath.
The Great Smog of 1952-53 killed 12,000 people.
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 28 April 2008 18:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also dog shit. And I know there is still a lot of dog shit but believe me it was worse in the 70s.
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 28 April 2008 18:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ah but at least in the 70s it was white dog shit.
― Ed, Monday, 28 April 2008 18:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
So the Standard is all "OMG BORIS SURGES INTO THE LEAD WE ARE SO CLOSE WE CAN TASTE THE PRECIOUSSSSSS" and Thelondonpaper says Ken has edged into the lead.
So basically, no one has a fucking clue who's going to win?
― Matt DC, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also, that Paxman clip is astonishing, especially when he starts walking towards him.
― Matt DC, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Paxman in "fuck you, pay me" mode is still the funniest zingster on TV.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Incidentally, did anyone start a thread on Nigel Lawson's last Newsnight appearance/climate change denial/possible Alzheimer's? Paxman's opening salvo that night was spectacular.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
i read the oddest review of his book by uber-leftist alex (or patrick) cockburn, saying lawson was a pussy for allowing the theory that co2 causes global warming. had no idea cockburn was that way inclined.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think his scientific expertise is on a par with Lawson's.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
The night of the Stern report, was that?
You're right, Paxman is heroic in scenarios like that BJ encounter - in a way he shouldn't have let him get away with it. Perhaps he didn't.
I think Ned T Rifle is right about London's dirty past.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
i will be glad when it's over, whatever cunt wins.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 19:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
I won't. I will be happy if KL wins, and unhappy if BK wins.
― the pinefox, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
that is, BJ.
Think it was later than the actual release of the report, but Lawson was certainly very critical of it, without being able to articulate why. A lot of comparisons to the David Kelly affair tossed about.
Anyway, it's here on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74E2D6oNSHc
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
What makes me laugh the most is that Viz regularly run stories about authors with controversial theories who are clearly pathetic fantasists who've written their book after a heavy night in the pub. Lawson is v. reminiscent of this, especially his ray-gun idea.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mathew d'Ancona, class traitor and defender of the downtrodden, backs Ken for Mayor.
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Not really.
i clicked on it anyway because i like the song
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
No rickrolls from me I'm afraid - it's all too serious attempt to make Boris sound heavyweight...
Imagine Giuliani’s ‘zero tolerance’ of crime woven into Disraelian Toryism: Robocop with a sense of compassion.
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
I was interested in this 'fact' - that there are now nearly twice as many robberies with violence a year in London than in the larger city of New York - anyone know where this comes from?
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Robocop had a sense of compassion. I'll assume the rest of his puff piece is that badly researched. Amateur.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think it comes from the NYPD shooting random people sitting quietly in their car.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Imagine London as a Tory stronghold against the Gordon Empire, with Boris as our clean-shaven Asterix. And — unlike the PM — he would have an electoral mandate
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm no big fan of Brown but this "he doesn't have a mandate" stuff just makes me want to shout 'FUCK OFF' repeatedly.
― Matt DC, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
he doesn't have a mandate
― DG, Monday, 28 April 2008 20:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
more like man-date if the rumours are true
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
"rumours"
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Who is Paxman voting for?
― caek, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
Spectator might be slightly biased there.
― Bodrick III, Monday, 28 April 2008 21:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
ya fink?
that Paxman pwning of Boris was a treat. The way he steps down from the plinth and then, instead of persisting with his question in the manner of the Michael Howard interview, just dismisses him as an utterly contemptible moron that we all know he is.... supoib.
― Upt0eleven, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
^^^
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5EujXtSlOwA
― Bodrick III, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
"i despair"
― DG, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
this is one bj i do not want lol!!!!!!
― Raw Patrick, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
i don't see the fuss about the Johnson thing there. Paxman was deliberately needling pedantically for a figure but it felt more of an obstruction rather than some much needed expose of Johnson incompetence. it's pretty obvious why Johnson didn't want to specify an amount (not just his tendency to fudge the maths) and 'it'll cost the same as whatever Ken wants to do' is a standard fob-off so it just felt pointless to me.
the dubbing of the three candidates arguing over footage of George, Zippy and Bungle was better.
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
but it won't cost the same as whatever ken wants to do 'cause ken doesn't want to design and build a fleet of buses exclusively for tfl.
― ledge, Monday, 28 April 2008 22:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
i don't understand why it's so outlandish an idea, or why bj has made it a major plank: obviously bendy buses are shitty, but why nu-routemasters particularly? in a city that will hosty the olympics in four years time, even £50m for new buses is pretty small beer, and shit, maybe bj could land some kind of reciprocal deal with a dictator of the right, a la ken's pact with chavez, to get it done.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Sarkozy?
― Bodrick III, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
"bring the routemasters back" is not a grown up transport policy proposal and paxman's question exposed exactly how unserious boris is about it
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
and i don't think for a second that boris can be the kind of operator that ken is - that any mayor of a city like london needs to be - and certainly not the kind that can cut deals with latin american heads of state
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
why does nrq always end up defending boris' corner??
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
because he hates ken more
xpost sure but i just think paxman could've gone about it better - i didn't see the rest of the programme tho
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't think i've really defended boris but this
-- Tracer Hand, Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:21 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
is hilarious.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
ken is certainly an 'operator', yes.
ok so why don't you like ken livingstone?
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
partly the anti-semitism, partly the creepy trot thing, partly the manifestly awful public persona -- these last two i wouldn't mind sooooo much if he wasn't 10 miles up the arse of the city and the developers. i thought his attempts at statesmanship, eg on 7/7, have been absurd, and that one in particular really fucked me off (couldn't say exactly why tbh -- unctiousness? bad faith? everyone in my office -- ordinary working londoners is the phrase -- felt similar. the chavez thing kind of ties into the trot thing -- old-school fondness for authoritarian regimes, however complex the situation is. (ie 'over there', for ken, things are black-and-white. over here, one has to make accommodations...) as a non-driver i'm happy to say i think the flat congestion charge is regressive and favours the wealthy. and the way he called trevor phillips quasi-bnp for disagreeing with him was completely fucked.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
bendy buses can eat a dick but im not that bothered.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
ok thanks for spelling it out
i didn't realise ken was anti-semitic
i don't know what "the creepy trot thing" is?
also, trevor phillips is a dick
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
read about the context of the one incident this claim is based on and you may still not realise
― blueski, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
you should look up the trot stuff -- search 'socialist action' -- if only for the lols c. 1990. ken's beef with the evening standard guy and those iranian guys was pretty gross, no? i mean, i didnt get into the embracing-of-al-qaradawi thing; whatever you might say about it, ken did a shitty job of explaining why he was quite so open-armed about the guy.
i'm not sure it's relevant if trevor phillips is a dick. i don't think he is -- he's certainly less of a dick than al-qaradawi -- but that doesn't make it ok to say he's like the bnp. especially when ken uses accusations of racism to defend a provenly corrupt colleague -- sub-ilm tactics at best.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
obv the old trot left has its share of openly anti-semitic guys too, like ken's friend gerry healy.
― banriquit, Monday, 28 April 2008 23:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
how would/will you vote?
― caek, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 00:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
sub-ilm tactics at best.
A bit like accusing someone who isn't an anti-semite of being one?
Ken may well have courted al-qaradawi, and for reasons I admit I'm unclear about, but he has consistently put hisLondoners money into LGB stuff which, for me, counts more.
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 07:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also Gerry Healy died 18 years ago. I think I've probably had some dodgy mates over the last 20 years. Back then all kinds of alliances were made because, at the height of Thatcherism, you basically made what deals you could. His friendship with Healy was probably more to do with getting his paper printed than anything particularly ideological.
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 08:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
well that's just it, ken is above all a pragmatist, so you make what deals you can: you can embrace the homophobic guy, and then shove some pork in the direction of the LGBT community. you can employ trotskyist activists in your inner sanctum and build the city up to the clouds. you can be friends with healy -- go to his funeral, claim mi5 had him taken down, long after the printing deal went bad -- and pose as a feminist. a similar kind of me-first ruthlessness has him say trevor phillips will soon be with the BNP. ken has this mystical aura of right-on-ness and gets away with it, but i can't imagine any other pol doing so.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think this thread, in general, has been guilty of underestimating the visceral dislike a lot of people now have for Ken. It's one reason why Boris is doing so well and why I'm not sure "ah well a lot of people will just vote tactically to keep Boris out" quite stands up.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
From what I've seen the worst candidate has to be Paddick, he's like the arrogant robot from some Star Trek spinoff: no personality, an ability to think systematically with no capacity for imaginative and speculative thought, no empathy with mammalian species... that kind of thing. Plus scratch the surface and you know there's a Tory underneath, a Liberal in other words.
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
you watch star trek spin-offs? geek
― blueski, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Of course, what I meant to say is I imagine he's like the arrogant robot from a Star Trek spinoff
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Did anyone see the interview with Paddick in Time Out? He just lost it completely, for no apparent reason.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
He's out of this depth
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
this depth? LOLz
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
From what I've seen the worst candidate has to be Paddick, he's like the arrogant robot from some Star Trek spinoff: no personality, an ability to think systematically with no capacity for imaginative and speculative thought, no empathy with mammalian species... that kind of thing.
More like this guy amirite?
― Bocken Social Scene, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Less sympathetic
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
What's wrong with being a pragmatist? When it comes down to it KL does give money to LGB (and even T's) causes, he does set up equality initiatives, and he does try to do things for those lower down economic scale. So the fuck what if he's 'pretending' and goes home and gets pissed and tells a few fanny jokes? With BJ you're going to get that crap (with added public school racism) and without any of the good stuff and a whole load of bollocks about Routemasters and the good old days on top. ffs London isn't fucking Henly on Thames.
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Matt DC, Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:32 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
http://www.timeout.com/london/features/4561/Brian_Paddick-interview.html
holy shit, what an idiot ^^
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
doctorcroc (21 hours ago) Show Hide 0 Poor comment Good comment Marked as spam Reply id rather have routemasters at any cost instead of taxpayers paying for a mega mosque funded and security paid for by the taxpayer
― onimo, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
Thing is it's all those Henley on Thames types in the suburbs who are going to get BJ in (Ned xp).
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
steveallen808909 (5 days ago) Show Hide +1 Poor comment Good comment Marked as spam Reply vote ken out if u dont want to pay for the east london mega mosque which will be a security nightmare and a sacluded community
― onimo, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:39 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
it matters, being a pragmatist, if you're posing as a man of principle. with the money thing -- i have no idea, it's a bit vague to say he has given money "to lgb causes", it just sounds like pandering. i don't know what "the good stuff" is from livingstone -- bread & circuses stuff, i'm assuming. i have no idea what he does for those low down the economic scale. the cost of living in london (everywhere else too, but...) has risen like a motherfucker in the time he's been in power because the house-price boom (in london especially) has brought about inflation by flooding the city with (homeowners' borrowed) money. the one thing i'll say for ken is at least the price of a bus journey hasn't risen toooo much, but the tube is still astoundingly high-priced. when i lived in london, well under the average wage, i was simply priced out of riding it. so bfd if there are a few public beanos each year.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Pre-fucking-cisely. We can argue the toss for ever about Ken's odd bedfellows and worry about Trot cults from the past, and in the meantime London is going to get one right wing fucker who thinks black people are alright as servants and gay people are the same as dog fuckers. Your choice London.
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
I really couldn't care less if Livingstone is a hate-filled hypocrite or not. The only important thing is whether, within the narrow remit of the London mayorship, he's made things better or worse. Transport is one of the few things he has any control over (and even then he had the tube ppp contracts imposed on him) - I don't live in London any more but I visit regularly and it seems to me the transport situation is about ten times better than it was ten years ago. It is actually possible to go a few stops on a bus these days without being stuck in traffic for an hour. I guess the congestion charge as a flat tax is unfair, but before it was getting almost impossible to get around central London. For those opposed to the congestion charge, what would you do instead?
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
the one thing i'll say for ken is at least the price of a bus journey hasn't risen toooo much
90p with an Oyster Card? That's pretty impressive. Plus I think if you're on New Deal or sumthin', it's actually only 45p.
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bariquit, the Dr Morbius of london politics
Tom D OTM, price of buses has fallen.
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Buses without an Oyster card are fucking extortionate nowadays.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
Fleecing the tourists is a fine old London tradition
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 09:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
even my mum has an oyster card, and she doesn't live or work in london.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Why isn't Phil the Godhead Scouser with the megaphone running for Mayor?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oyster cards only cost £3 or something these days, don't they? Tourists aren't priced out of getting them.
I agree that the tube is still outrageously priced compared with other major capital cities - but at least it's possible to get a bus these days with a decent chance of getting to wherever you're going on time. The traffic before the congestion charge was pretty unbelievable. I used to get the 137 home and sometimes it would take an hour just to get from Marble Arch to Hyde Park Corner.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Whereas now it can take an hour just to get from Sloane Square to Chelsea Bridge!
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
big question re where the media's leading over the next two years is: on friday will the story be 'ken pulls it back from the brink' or 'labour demolished countrywide'? i think both of those things will happen, but in terms of creating a narrative, it will be interesting to see where the commentary goes.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Can't wait to see cheap tube fares under Johnson. Or see him dealing with the RMT. I would love to be in that meeting.
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
xps
fuck a travelcard being nearly £6 off-peak, this is not progress
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
and movies
― blueski, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
and, uh, just life in general
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
So, what's the greatest margin Ken can lose the first ballot by and still get in on 2nd-choice votes? He'll surely get 60%+ of Paddick voters and 70%+ of Berry voters, I would think? Enough to overturn a four-point deficit, maybe? I guess Boris will hoover up the BeeEnPee alternates.
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
I thought Paddick votes broke down more in favour of Johnson?
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mike: you mean Pamela's giving 30% of her vote to someone else?
I agree with what Polly Toynbee says in her column: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/29/london08.boris It moved me, and I wrote to tell her so, and that I will be happy to vote Labour on Thursday.
The only thing I don't agree with, in her largely spot-on commentary, is the use of the word 'effete' to describe BJ. I thought it had to do with effeminacy, and I actually think BJ is macho and hideously aggressive. Looking in a dictionary, I see that it apparently means 'exhausted, lacking vigour, barren'. I don't think BJ is that either. So I think she chose the wrong word, when she perhaps meant to convey 'upper-class / out of touch' or the like.
Otherwise, I think that it is a tremendous column.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes, Liberals would prefer a Tory mayor
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
I would love to be there too. I get a free tube pass soon coz of the silver lining (for me) of the Metronet fuck up.
― Raw Patrick, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
ok we get it (xp)
― blueski, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh really? I haven't seen any polls on that. Damn, I'm still living in some kind of SDP past, probably. I suspect the 2nd-choice votes aren't going that differently proportioned to the 1st-choice votes then.
With all these widely-differing polls around, are pollsters working with ludicrously small samples or something? Can't believe it's this volatile so close to election day. Maybe it's the push-pull of Standard smears vs dawning-realisation-it's-Boris.
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Stop Boris. Stop London Becoming LOLdon.
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
He has reinvented himself to suit London's needs. The City, to its own surprise, responds positively to him, giving him much credit for seeing off Frankfurt as a competitor and even trouncing New York.
i was very moved by this, pinefox. i asked keir hardie and he agreed.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
Dave Hill also gives reasons to vote Labour, though he is too generous to the Tory really: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/dave_hill/2008/04/the_london_list.html
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
What year is your SDP past, Mike -- 1982 or so? I think they were past their electoral peak by 15 May 1985.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
am or pm?
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't think we need to bother with the latest propaganda issued by Millbank apparatchik Toynbee.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ah, yes, ILM's reality-challenging "Polly Toynbee is a Blairite" thing, which requires you to either a) not know who she is, b) not know who Tony Blair is, or c) be really fucking thick.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
are you off your meds?
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
toynbee : labour :: gilligan : livingstone
lol i mean gilligan : johnson
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
Dr Kelly died so that Gilligan might live.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hasn't Toynbee always been rather more of a Brownite?(Though she must have a tremendously powerful microscope)
― laxalt, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
And there is no divergence of views within the Labour party?
Is Livingstone a Blairite too?
Is John Mcdonnell (sp?) a Blairite?
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
She was Brown's John the Baptist, before she realized along with everyone else that Brown wasn't quite Jesus
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
I borrowed Toynbee's microscope....and I saw some!
― laxalt, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't recall either Livingstone or McDonnell living in a Clapham Park slum for like one night then working at United Biscuits for approx. half an hour then writing a book about the poverty of the nation with a ten-page preface about her five-storey house across the road.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's a good job no one is required to vote for Polly Toynbee then.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
For the time being.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
laxalt otm
classic toynbee here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/feb/26/iraq.foreignpolicy2
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think people get her mixed up with Jackie Ashley, too.
I'm not saying you're not allowed to dislike despise her, Marcello. I'm just saying it's a little, tiny bit, er, moronic, to pretend that just because someone supports the Labour party they are a Blairite, or even a Brownite (whatever that means - microscope point well taken).
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
But back to Ken/Boris ... sorry.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Fuck off moron, is that good enough for you?
Is this the day to say no? No to what? Yet if not now, then when?
Is this off the new Elbow album?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
This is very boring.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
The first one wasn't bad though.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
column after column by toynbee is as close to actual party literature as you could possibly get. she doesn't just support the party: she supports the leadership. differences between blair and brown were largely to do with power and presentation; ideologically you could barely get a rizla paper between them. as p-toyn has basically acknowledged -- that the myth of brown as 'the real deal' compared with blair built up over those years of feuding was bollocks.
xpost yes this is boring
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
I like Polly Toynbee. I think that she (experimentally / journalistically) lived on low wages for longer than has been suggested. She has old roots in the feminist movement. She is different from, and better than, Jackie Ashley, as I have said before. I think she is a good progressive woman.
I was thinking about what it will be, or would be, like to have BJ as mayor. Every time his name is mentioned or his face appears on TV, as it often will, I will have to turn off. Stuff bearing that face will be stuffed into my letterbox every fortnight. He will constantly pop up to speak for London. It will be difficult to bear; part of me will have to shut down to shut it out.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
I like Polly Toynbee. I think that she (experimentally / journalistically) lived on low wages for longer than has been suggested.
I haven't taken her seriously since
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Those old midthread blues again.
PT is a bore with a famous dad and therefore good connections. She is canting retrogression writ large.
If BJ becomes Mayor will the last person to leave London please etc.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Stuff bearing that face will be stuffed into my letterbox every fortnight.
it will be interesting to see if he does continue with those godawful and wasteful newsletters.
i think toynbee sent her kids to private school? kind of lame given her defence of the quality of education under new lab.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah at least abbott had the decency to keep slagging it off
― blueski, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
Unfortunately, that is exactly how lots of people feel about Livingstone, and why Boris is doing as well as he is.
George Orwell, that clown, I've never taken any of his books seriously since he pretended to be a tramp.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm not a big fan of ms toynbee, as usual though, the hateful reader comments posted after her piece make me feel more sympathetic to her, even though I don't really want to. They also make me want to emigrate.
― Pashmina, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes, that's really comparing like with like! (xp)
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
If Orwell had been Chaplin, Polly Toynbee would be
Fiona Kennedy COMEDIAN
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
This is still boring.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bring on PC Ploddick
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
What do you mean bring me on? Did RED KEN put you up to this? Eh? Eh?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ok, what's the population split between the inner and outer boroughs. Assuming Johnson trounces Livingstone in the suburbs, and Ken wins convincingly in inner London, who wins?
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
It mathematically works out at roughly 50/50.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
lol paddick is a bent copper am i right?
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
I agree with Pashmina about people who write posts on the Guardian site. It seems like a lot of them are scumbags, and I guess that some of them are probably part of an orchestrated right-wing campaign, though I have no evidence for that; it just seems likely. It's a pity the Guardian has opened this box; I don't now see how they can close it.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
By closing, since most of their writers basically agree with them?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
i liked toynbee's 'if you're going to post snark, at least use your real name and not Cockmonkey74 or whatever' rant on CIF
― blueski, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
If Boris wins, I say we retreat and build the barricades on the bridges and above circle line. NON PASSARAN!
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bev Bevan type threats will be useless I suppose?
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
i couldn't find the comments on toynbee -- but one of the orchestrated right-wing campaigners on the comments box for a similar puff-piece by martin jacques raised the issue of ken's support for ian blair over menezes. they'll do anything to discredit him, the swine.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
'if you're going to post snark, at least use your real name and not Cockmonkey74 or whatever so we can FIND YOU and MAKE YOU SLEEP WITH BEV BEVAN'
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
But are people assuming higher turnout in the suburbs?
Does anyone live in outer London? Round my way (Harringay) we have had v little campaigning from anyone (one Ken, one Boris, two lib dem local council leaflets, presumably because it's so safe Labour, but a mate who lives in Kingston says they've been flooded with Lib Dem and Tory stuff. Why hasn't Labour been focussing on places like that, or has it, or again,are they not bothering because there is no hope?
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Average outer London turnout at the last mayoral election was approx. 45% so presumably (and maybe fatally) Labour are assuming that the outcrops are not really worth bothering with.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Demographically harringey counts as 'inner-london'
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
lol rly?
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
damn london is big!
Zone 2!
That's inner, innit?
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
the only thing that's really raised my bile against ken in the past few years is his response to the menezes thing - it was just knee-jerk blue wall of silence crap of the first order
it seems like ALL mayors have this pure, unshakeable allegiance to their police departments though, which is maybe not so strange but also not very admirable and i wonder if they realize how bad it makes them look
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
harrinGAY is not inner london
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
It doesn't matter! There isn't some invisible ring beyond which everyone automatically becomes a Tory shitbag.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
It is more a case of harringey having large working clas white and non white populations, more people in social housing higher unemployment that makes it similar to hackney or camden rather than Merton.
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
There isn't some invisible ring beyond which everyone automatically becomes a Tory shitbag.
it's called the A406
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
In any case it's when you get out into places like Bromley and Twickenham that you're in real Tory heartland, I wouldn't say it's even a 50:50 split. Even if those boroughs are massive they're also less densely populated even if there is higher turnout.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Haha Twickenham MP is Vincent Cable I should have bothered to check that.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Inner London boroughs, according to the Office of National Statistics:
Camden Hackney Hammersmith and Fulham Haringey Islington Kensington and Chelsea Lambeth Lewisham Newham Southwark Tower Hamlets Wandsworth City of Westminster
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
fwiw my guess about mayors and their PDs is that the police know a bunch of stuff about the mayor that nobody else knows
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
So, the spending limit was £420,000 - that's really not a lot for such a big electorate. No wonder they're not bothering in areas they think they'll lose.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
the Office of National Statistics can go eat a dick, newham FFS
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Tracer Hand, Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:49 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Johnson on Toynbee.
She incarnates all the nannying, high-taxing, high-spending schoolmarminess of Blair's Britain... She is the high priestess of our paranoid, mollycoddled, risk-averse, airbagged, booster-seated culture of political correctness and 'elf'n'safety fascism.
...because airbags and booster seats are such bad ideas. This is the exact reason he's such a stupid twat. Playing to the gallery, not thinking for one fucking second of the consequences of his stupid soundbites. He's just not a fucking serious person, which is fine as long as you don't run a fucking city!
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
He's going to win isn't he?
Will fall to Labour:
Camden Hackney Haringey Islington (probably) Lambeth Lewisham Newham Southwark Tower Hamlets
Vulnerable to the LibDems:
Islington
True blue
Hammersmith and Fulham City of Westminster Kensington and Chelsea Wandsworth these days?
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
For local government fact fans, the London Government Act of 1963 included Greenwich, but excluded Haringey and Newham. So pick your definition.
In demographic and political terms, Haringey feels very similar to Hackney.
I'm still kind of optimistic that he won't - I can see a lot of wavering voters not ticking that box at the last minute.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
No, Ken is
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 11:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
There's also a red band running out towards places like Brent and Dagenham and there'll be a ding-dong between the LibDems and the Tories in the South West. The bits on the fringes of Kent and Essex will fall to Boris.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
wish i could vote :/
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
There are a number of polling cards lying around unclaimed in my hallway.
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
― laxalt, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
And outer London predictions?
Barking and Dagenham Barnet Bexley Brent Bromley Croydon Ealing Enfield Greenwich Harrow Havering Hillingdon Hounslow Kingston upon Thames Merton Newham Redbridge Richmond upon Thames Sutton Waltham Forest
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
BNP landlslide
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
well havering is a safe tory bet, having characters like this running around
Voted very strongly against equal gay rights.
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Who, the dog?
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
robble robble robble
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ah yes, Steve Allen, broadcaster on LBC with its London Mayor debates sponsored by the Evening Standard.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
How do you vote very strongly, do you punch the teller as you go through the division lobby?
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
re that betting graph, what happened at the end of feb and the beginning of march? is this where google trends is going to actually come in handy?
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
I wish you could vote too, Hand.
I remember that Momus once scornfully called you a 'progressive'!!
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yougov poll.
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
graph looks like those candlestick/face illusions
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
haha no! i guess he meant that i was some kind of piecemeal reformer instead of a real revolutionary like he is??
xposts
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
squint and you can see robin carmody smoking a cigar
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Predictable turncoat.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Liberal Democrat candidate Brian Paddick said: "Kate Hoey is bonkers - they make a perfect couple."
sticking it to the breeders once again
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
Image of Carmody is funny. We need him now, I suppose!
Hand, yes, it was on an old thread called something like 'What Are Your Politics?' - on which people called themselves various complex leftist terms and then some Yank came along and said 'BS - y'all are Liberals'. Maybe he was right too!
Or maybe the Momus thing was on another thread. Anyway, it was funny how Momus came out with a special term for you, which he didn't apply to anyone else (though I don't think my political views, for instance, are very different from yours, which doubtless resemble lots of other people's).
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Speaking on LBC radio, Mr Livingstone described Ms Hoey as "eccentric".
"She was one of the few Labour MPs to vote against banning fox-hunting," he told LBC Radio.
"But I'm surprised he's going to take her advice on sport because I think the reason Tony Blair sacked her at the end of his first term, was because she'd been involved in all the fiasco over Wembley.
"But I suppose she knows more about it than Boris does."
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mr Livingston has a fine sense of irony
"Ken Livingstone said Ms Hoey had been "a sort of semi-detached member of the party in recent years"
― laxalt, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
After transferred votes have dispersed:
Barking and Dagenham - Lab Barnet - Con Bexley - Lab Brent - Lab Bromley - Con Croydon - Con Ealing - Tricky one, Lab I think Enfield - Con Greenwich - Lab Harrow - Con Havering - Con Hillingdon - Con Hounslow - Fuck knows Kingston upon Thames - Con Merton - Con Newham - Lab Redbridge - Lab Richmond upon Thames - Con Sutton - Con Waltham Forest - Con
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
Can't really see Paddick breaking into second anywhere.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Redbridge - Lab
doubt it
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
Maybe I unwisely conflated Redbridge with Barking & Dagenham, dunno, never been.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
not missing much :(
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
but yeah i mean it contains churchill's consituency so a vote for ken is kinda unlikely
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Monday, April 28th, 2008 8:13 pm mayoral election pop As I've often written elsewhere, the privatisation of Radio 1 (which would these days take 1Xtra with it) is as potent a right-wing obsession as it is - it was in the Daily Mail practically every day in the mid-90s, and I doubt much has changed since - because it would effectively deny any national mass media exposure to (even today, as good as silencing for many people) the voices that the right want silenced (more generally, calls for the PBS/NPR-ization - spelling deliberate - of the BBC are as potent as they are on the right because they unite the two main types of right-winger: the traditionalists who don't believe there should be *any* populist broadcasting and the Murdochites who believe there should be as much as possible, just not supplied by the public sector).
And so it is with Wiley this week at number 4, played incessantly on 1Xtra for months, played with reasonable frequency on Radio 1 almost as long, given no exposure at all by the commercial stations available where I live (and everywhere else except a few major cities) which are firmly in the hands of GCap/Global, The Local Radio Company, and a few other groups which should be grist to Paul Kingsnorth's mill. Even if you don't like "Wearing My Rolex" as a song, even if you abhor (as I certainly do) the attitude and mindset behind it (while at the same time grimly understanding the circumstances that have brought it about), you have to concede that this is an incredibly apt song to have in the Top 5 in the week a deeply divided city goes to the polls, the rawest, most *inner London* sound to have got so high since So Solid. The boroughs that will vote for Boris are *living in fear* of this sound seeping through.
It is, of course, depressing that the song that represents Livingstone's London is so blatantly aggressive-acquisitive. That things have come to this! Yet even that is far preferable to the current Real Soul mania, as much the Cameronistas' preparing-for-government music as Britpop was for the Blairites (the US success of "Bleeding Love" in this context might be analoguous to that of "Wonderwall").
― Free Peace Sweet!, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
the rawest, most *inner London* sound to have got so high since So Solid.
guess he's not talking about fulham here.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
The Fulham Broadway vs. North End Road throwdown is a pretty one-sided contest I have to say.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
Victory for Ken, pyrrhic victory for Labour then.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Is FPS Carmody?
I live in a borough that I don't think will vote for BJ, and I have never heard or heard of this record. Carmody, here, might be overestimating the power of pop records to 'seep through'; perhaps I have done the same kind of overestimation in my time.
Wherever you are, Carmody, good day, and good luck.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
i do think ken will win (it depends on the number of usual non-voters who decide to vote, i suspect), but he's so distant from the thrust of the labour project that it won't give them much of a bump for the general election.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also if Labour lose London they might as well concede the General Election now.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
In which event I might as well pack up and move to Canada.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes I know, MESSAGEBOARD SADDO THREATENS TO QUIT BRITAIN IF TORIES TRIUMPH isn't exactly Phil Collins but even so
Scotland's nearer
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
I was more thinking that you've just swung A1ex1s Petr1d1s in favour of Boris but still...
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think that any Livingstone victory would be somewhat separate from any question of broader Labour electoral fortunes - he is a 'special case'.
On the other hand, I think that a BJ victory would *not* be separate from broader Con electoral fortunes: it would be hailed as a harbinger, etc
This inconsistency sounds negative and depressing, but seems to me true.
This is Carmody also:
--
Thursday, March 20th, 2008 11:54 pm it was five years ago tonight
that I realised how much wrong I had done, how dangerous some of my actions and statements and opinions had been *without my even realising it*
it was five years ago tonight that I realised I could never like *pop*, in the broadest sense, ever again. for some time my pop fandom was permanently shaken, until I realised that there was a particular sound and style I could get behind and turn into *ideology* while despising the rest of pop ever more passionately
it was five years ago tonight that my life - and everyone's life, especially in Britain, even if they don't want to admit it - changed forever
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
fuck labour in the general election; i could care less at this point. there's actually a difference between the two in London.
― Upt0eleven, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
It would, as you said earlier, change the narrative a bit, though. It wouldn't necessarily give Brown a boost, but it would definitely be a blow for Cameron.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
Scotland is indeed nearer; speaking of which, excellent article by Ian Jack here.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
Well, it's down to "nice bloke, makes yer laff" which is how Boz and Caz are operating right now.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
i think he's talking about that gareth gates 'spirit in the sky' cover.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Felt he missed out a lot though, like differences in education system and in attitudes to education (poor people are allowed to be educated in Scotland - even, whisper it, encouraged to be educated); attitudes to property ownership etc
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
Well there's at least one very major difference in the Scottish education system which doesn't seem to have been eradicated, sadly.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
Very striking, Ian Jack's words on Scotland's bloody tradition of militarism making it defendable in a future world.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Did you spill Scotland's pint?"
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
In any case it's when you get out into places like Bromley and Twickenham that you're in real Tory heartland, I wouldn't say it's even a 50:50 split
The Twickenham MP is Vince Cable! The Richmond Park MP is Susan Kramer (Lib Dem), and the Kingston MP is Ed Davey (Lib Dem). Richmond council is Lib Dem controlled, as is Kingston.
I am going to vote for Paddick.
― Dr.C, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
Second pref?
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Green.
― Dr.C, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
*cue predictable gags about I didn't know Scritti Politti were running*
That's a good choice for Twickenham.
Hammersmith & Fulham, however, is untrue blue so I'll have to turn out. Despite his being Ken I'm voting for Ken with Paddick as second choice.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah I acknowledged that Cable thing in the following post, Dr C.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh yes, sorry. But I just wanted to set the recd straight wrt this mythical Tory heartland of SW London!
One of the candidates turned up at our front door to get us to sign a form allowing him to run - he needed something like 30 signatures from each London Borough.
― Dr.C, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
I have to combat Chingford I guess.
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
Can't persuade you to put Ken second for the sake of stopping boris?
xpost to dr C?
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Feel sad for people who have to vote for Ploddick, I think he's the worst candidate for political office i've seen since Bobby Gillespie's dad
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ed - maybe.
― Dr.C, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Well, what will it take, Doc? A gold plectrum?
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Much, much more than that...
― Dr.C, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I know what you mean Tom, and my heart says Left List as second preference but my STOP BORIS ESPECIALLY IN PHIL N' KIRSTIE FRIENDLY FULHAM says Ploddick.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
my "STOP BORIS etc." head that should be.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Everyone does realise that this election is london wide for mayor, it doesn't matter how each candidate does on a constituency basis it is the number of votes in total across london. So voting for Ploddick will not stop boris (by all means vote tactically for assembly members)
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
Equally there's surely no point in voting LibDem and making a tactical second-place vote for the Greens, when Siam Berry will almost certainly have been eliminated before Paddick?
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
Sian Berry, even.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
2nd-choice votes for anyone outside the top two are simply disregarded (well, they'll be tallied and prove reassuring reading for people concerned that the lovely Sian came in 5th behind the BeeEnPee, cos she'd have been a comfortable 4th, perhaps better, with 2nd-choice votes).
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes, but I can't bring myself to put an X next to either Ken or Boris's name.
― Dr.C, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mike seems to have an aversion for typing the letters B, N and P ... and actually, I think I know how he feels.
Doc: ... no. I don't know what to say. You will, of course, do what you want to do.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
pinefox, do you feel that any of the criticisms made of ken amount to anything? do you find his personal style appealing?
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't know why you guys are so afraid of a bank
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
I do find his personal style appealing. And I don't really care about criticisms of him, in the present context.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 13:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
I remember taking a load of euros out of the BNP in the Quartier Latin last May, with dear old RJG of all people: slightly odd experience.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Used to be, if you saw B'n'P tags you were duty-bound to alter these to BANGLADESHI NATIONAL PARTY.
― suzy, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
What is this "left list" thing? Is it Respect?
― caek, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
And various others
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
respect, in an unusual move for a left organisation, have split
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
They suck.
― caek, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
How many preferences do you indicate? Just the first two? Or can you make a point of putting them last?
Just the first 2
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
a split in the unity coalition. the full story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_List
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
Here's hoping they get no votes whatsoever
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
They certainly seem like a bright bunch.
― caek, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
So vote for whoever you like, just put Livingstone second, and we'll be alright.
It was a pretty inherently unstable coalition anyway, although shades of Kilroy-Silk &c.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
Respect Renewal candidates will be standing under the name 'Respect (George Galloway)'
― Mark G, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
I most certainly will not.
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Do not vote for this man:
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
I quite like his beard
― caek, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
There is no non-shit left-wing party to put 2nd is there?
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Stress balls at the ready
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 14:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'd vote for Lindsey German if i were allowed to vote.
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
SWP ugh
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
OTM
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'd rather vote Boris
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
There is the nightmare scenario that lots of anti-Boris but can't-really-vote-for-Ken-again people go Green or Lib Dem or Left List or whatever and put KL down as their #2 and then Boris nudges over 50%. Game over. Unlikely, I know.
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Works both ways
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mike, can one ask for whom you intend to vote? Are you reluctant to vote for Ken Livingstone?
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Look I figure the SWP are experts at ineffectually haranguing people in cramped function rooms, which is about 90% of the mayor's job if I understand correctly
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
And even more practiced at anti-Semitism than Ken
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lab/Green or Green/Lab. Misgivings about Ken, but no great reluctance, especially in the face of the alternative.
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Another Green/Lab World.
xpost: Strange, all these anti-semitic allegations flying around. I don't, god knows, want to get into a barney about this with anyone, anywhere, let alone a Barney Everyone Everywhere. But a) I don't believe that Ken Livingstone is anti-semitic, b) I don't believe that most members of the SWP are. In the latter case, at least, I can only guess that hostility to Israel as a political force is being confused or conflated with anti-semitism -- which is, of course, a different thing. The most vehement critic of Israel I know (including the Dirty Vicar) is Jewish. Probably that goes for a lot of people.
This is a dreadfully volcanic issue so I guess one should try to say no more about it - it is probably pointless to get embroiled in it, one way or another. But it is quite an allegation to make, about anyone. I knew lots of people in the SWP as a student and none of them were racist or anti-semitic in the least. Does any Jewish person actually feel threatened, as a Jew, by British socialists or Ken Livingstone? I doubt it.
Incidentally I don't really think BJ is a racist either.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
agreed
BJ racist no; idiot yes
SWP pain in the arse cause hijackers.
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
I sensed some anti-Semitism when I was on that first anti-Iraq War match, organised by this "Left List" mob - I think it was the Star of David = Swastika banners; the chants about driving Israel into the sea; and the blokes wandering about with fake suicide bomb belts that did it. Maybe I'm being a bit over-sensitive.
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
swp are more 'lol' than 'omg'.
blokes wandering about with fake suicide bomb belts
that's 'wtf?!'.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
I was on that march, I saw and heard nothing of that sort, but whatever, 2m people, bound to be some crazies.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
I wasn't on the 2nd march, needless to say
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
several xposts
I think BJ is racist in a quaint paternalistic English public school manner.
The rest of your post is spot on, Pinefox.
― Venga, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
SWP are more lol than omg, but at least they were always anti-Stalin, unlike all the "serious" people who became Labour ministers and were in CPGP. They're the real tossers.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
wonder what the standard's last-day splash will be. 'ken livingstone ate my hamster', possibly.
SWP are more lol than omg, but at least they were always anti-Stalin
what with them being formed 20 years after stalin died, i remain unmoved here.
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
Unlike the various SWP members who became Garry Bushell and various Hitchens
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
CPGB - der.
Yes, but it's just a continuation of whatever Socialist group Tony Cliff started in 1950, and history is important &C.
Whatever.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
this stuff on ken's economics guy john ross is lololololol:
http://archive.workersliberty.org/publications/readings/trots/socaction.html
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tom D, every political movement in the history of the world has had prominent members who lurched into reactionary views with age. Your posts on this thread just reek of gratuitous lefty-bashing.
"THEY ALL HATE JEWS OMG!!!"
― Venga, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Gratuitous SWP-bashing, thank you
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Get it right
I've heard he gets it from his dad. Wrighty would never have a Jew manage England.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
So what are German and her supporters proposing that you object to so strongly? Please answer without reference to hidden anti-semitic agendas or other such blah. What stated policies is she putting forward that you find so objectionable?
― Venga, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Paul Foot. Worracunt he was, eh?
― Venga, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
I quite like the SWP because they provide the infrastructure for protest. You know, they print posters, book coaches, that sort of stuff. You don't have to agree with them about anything. I can see how this could be seen as hijacking causes, though.
― Jamie T Smith, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 15:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
SWP (and the islamic right) brought a lot of other issues into the STWC and turned a lot of people off, see Tom D above. it stopped it from being an ongoing broad based coalition against an illegal war.
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2006/05/keeping_the_fai.html
― caek, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
"The Iraq War is part of a Zionist plan which targets the establishment of the Greater State of Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates"
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
I always felt the same way, Jamie, when I was very vaguely involved in such things. But perhaps others who are still practically, politically involved now feel differently.
Ed is correct (to imply) that it ought to be OK for Tories, liberals, whoever to be part of a stop-the-war movement, without any other agenda being part of the deal. Such a movement, I think, needs to be single-issue in some strong sense.
I admit this is all a big digression.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
I agree, and the SWP did their best to drive people away.
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm renowned on these pages for my "lefty-bashing"
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
I've seen you at it, behind the pub ;-)
― Ed, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
quite hard to hit the back of your own head though.
I'm a Self-Hating Non-Jew
― Tom D., Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
amen
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
caek, the page you link to contains this sentence:
"Respect 'Coalition', which is the electoral front for the Socialist Workers' Party, and the BNP"
makes me kind of question everything else there
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 16:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't really have an opinion on that page, as I don't know what I'm talking about (heard of the Left List this morning), but I suspect the comma between SWP and BNP is crucial.
The guy is very easy to disagree with and has a particularly objectionable tone (think a Blairite Simon Heffer), but he's often on telly and I'd be staggered if he thought the BNP and SWP were connected in some organizational way.
― caek, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 17:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
lol at me saying "he is often on telly" as though that makes him intelligent. Excuse me.
the quotes from the musician guy are legit so far as i can tell (citing wiki lol).
― banriquit, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 17:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
i remember that Harry's Place thing had some beef with that gilad atzmon guy mentioned in the link
― DG, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 17:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
Personally, I hate the vulgar multi-cultured metropolis which Ken has helped to create
― James Mitchell, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 08:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think he might be giving Ken a bit too much credit there.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 08:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/apr/30/pressandpublishing.london08
^^ interesting, though naturally decca aitkenhead is fathoms out of her depth.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 08:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
i've come around to the idea of voting to ken, because having ken as mayor under a cameron government will be wtflol to the max.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 08:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
"A lot of people say you can't support a Tory because you're a progressive," he says. "Well, actually, in some respects the Tories are more progressive than Labour now. It comes down to this idea of what's progressive. Under New Labour, the Labour party has forfeited progressiveness. It's doing things like starting wars and imposing ID cards and locking people up for six weeks without trial."
YEAH BECAUSE THEY HAD NO SUPPORT FROM THE TORIES FOR THOSE THINGS YOU DICKMUNCH
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 08:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
having ken as mayor under a cameron government will be wtflol to the max.
However having Boris as mayor under a Cameron government:
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 08:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
I've just read Decca A's interview with Gilligan. I don't respect her much, normally, but I don't see much wrong with the job she's done here.
I think that piece is quite shocking. Perhaps one should not be shocked by anything nowadays, or by the conduct of the Standard. But I think it is the brazen openness with which the most prominent and influential (?) journalist in this campaign admits that, in reporting (not merely 'Comment'), he is following a personal agenda of grievance and hatred. If a Guardian journalist (nb I mean someone who seeks out facts, not a columnist / pundit -- some of them do still exist) admitted to that in relation to anyone (BJ, Cameron, Brown, McCain, Clinton, whoever), there would be a furore - this would not be regarded as proper journalism. A newspaper should not be the platform for a reporter to play out his personal grudges and grievances. For this to be so openly admitted really ... well, it really surprises me. Am I going to be alone in this country in feeling this way?
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
you're certainly quite naive.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
when the guardian was pursuing jonathan aitken, how was that not openly partisan?
Aitken = a criminal. Ken isn't.
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's hardly the same thing! (xpost)
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
You are not alone, but it may be just the two of us. Gilligan is a odious cunt. xpost
hmm, Jonathon Aitken turned out to be a criminal.
― Ed, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
In what way is Andrew Gilligan a "lefty"? Because of the David Kelly thing? I thought he was seriously being considered as a Tory candidate for something or other?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
I agree that the piece is shocking. I don't know wether the guy is a hateful cunt, or a pathetic patsy, probably a bit of both I suppose. The guy is openly admitting that he's running a smear campaign against Livingstone, in any sane world he'd be sacked on the spot for this. This story should be bigger news than it is.
― Pashmina, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm sure Gilligan's still very happy about building a nice little career for himself on the back of a man he helped kill.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Why on earth would he be sacked?!
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
I mean, he is essentially gleefully going about doing his paymaster's bidding.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'm not talking about the nature of the offence -- assuming handing out public funds to your friends isn't a criminal offence -- but the nature of the press campaign. when have newspapers ever been nonpartisan? well into the last century a large number of them were directly party-controlled, or, like the times, as near as damn it.
i think gilligan is somewhat -- a shitload -- less culpable for kelly's death than campbell and blair. i don't think he's a great guy, but the idea that what he did = opposition to labour = toryism, can fuck right off.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
We're talking about what's he's doing NOW = Toryism, Enrique.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
I mean in what universe did anyone claim opposition to the war = Toryism?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lot of Countryside Alliance dudes on the original anti-War marches, Matt.
― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Alan Clark RIP and "we should just have left the Germans to get on with it" to thread.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Aggrieved at waste of ammunition better used on foxes, badgers, dogs, escaped coypu etc.
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Dom, fair enough, but no one here ever claimed that opposition to the war, or opposition to the case for going to war, was de facto a Tory thing.
Meanwhile this bit is hilarious.
"My relationship with Boris is not that close, I promise. I've never been to his house, I've never had a non-professional relationship with him. In journalism you know lots of people whom you never see outside of work. And that's basically how it is with Bozza."
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah that's one thing, but decca aitkenhead links the two, and i think that's indefensible.
-- Matt DC, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:45 AM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
aitkenhead goes there:
For a journalist who swears by the impartiality of his investigations, it is interesting that he finds himself once again locked in mortal combat with a senior Labour politician. "This is just me, doing my job," he insists.
Is he sure it has nothing to do with revenge, I wonder? "What would I take revenge on Ken Livingstone for?" he says, and I'm not sure why he looks baffled. As he says himself, he considers the mayoral election a "surrogate" for national politics - and after Hutton, he would have good reason to feel vengeful towards the party that cost him so much. "That's not," he says, "the reason." For the only time during the interview, he looks properly annoyed.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
It wasn't only the Guardian who went after Aitken, it was World In Action too, it wasn't a one-on-one thing like ES vs. KL. Also there was no concerted campaign by the Guardian against Aitken lasting years and years, they reported one story that Aitken objected to, not dozens of them.
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
pointless poll
― Ed, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
lol rickroll
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
raefroll morelike
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Of course Gilligan's campaign is pro-Boris and pro-Tory, I don't see Brian Paddick getting much in the way of positive coverage in the Standard. He's either being disingenuous or flat-out lying to claim otherwise.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ed's link points to a world of words I don't care for...
London midmorning: Footsie lacks direction
London's leading index is lacking any real direction as falling miners weigh against results-driven gains.
Falling miners?
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Perhaps, in the interests of all things anti-Ken being equal, the Standard could provide a photo-opportunity plus puff piece for Sian Berry as well?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
Barnbrook centrespread in today's edition I'm reliably told.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
That is a shitty trick Aiktenhead pulls at the end though.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 09:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
It might have been nice if Aitkenhead had done some research before the interview and actually confronted Gilligan with some of these facts, rather than pulling a bitchmove and doing it afterwards.
― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
If Ken wins I'm going to send Gilligan a big bunch of flowers saying 'fuck you baldy'.
― Pete W, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Pashmina + Ed: thank you - glad to know I am not alone on this.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Does Gilligan seriously think that a Tory mayor would be less sympathetic to big business?
"Yeah, I do. I really do."
Would be funny if it wasn't so fucking ridiculous.
The Peregrine Worstwerp article is just plain silly, eveyone knows that London's never been th same since the Huguenots turned up with their fancy weaving ways.
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
If Ken wins he ought to send the Operation Ore squad to Gilligan's gaff.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
The Gilligan piece is kind of sad. He sounds a bit pathetic, desperate to be accepted by the establishment but rejected by them, trying to get in with the new (old) order, but he's never even been round Boris's house. And why should he, dreadful little oik, useful but not one would want to be friends with.
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
it was campbell who leaked kelly's name to the press in 2003, right? not gilligan.
-- Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:09 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link
imagine the egg on ken's face if they shot the wrong guy though. oh, hang on, maybe not.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Are they shooting men who download child porn these days? Unlikely as so many of them are policeman...
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hey Andy, it's been a year, give Maddy back, we'll take your mental state into account.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
ALLEGEDLY of course.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ned Trifle - yes, I hadn't seen it that way, but your comment really reminds me of something - some novel or film with a character like that, who is out in the cold at the end after all his weaselly aid to the bad guys. Just can't think what it is. Feels a bit like Hollinghurst's Line of Beauty, but that doesn't really have such a character.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
Gilligan looks disgruntled after being turned down from yet another senior role at the Telegraph.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
Gilligan ain't no Anton Chigurh (xpost).
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
might photoshop that cunt AG and Boris faces on this later if i'm bored enough
― blueski, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ned Trifle - yes, I hadn't seen it that way, but your comment really reminds me of something - some novel or film with a character like that, who is out in the cold at the end after all his weaselly aid to the bad guys
Gilligan: "Did I do good boss, did I? Did I?" Boris: "Sure you did, Gilligan, sure you did." Gilligan: "We nailed that Livingstone good and proper, didn't we boss? Huh?" Boris: "What's wrong Gilligan, you look kinda noivous." Gilligan: "Nuttin' boss, it's nuttin'... it's just..." Boris: "Spit it out Gilligan." Gilligan: "Well, seein' as how I dids a favour to you boss, I was wondrin'..." Boris: "... if I could do youse a favour... why you I oughta!!" Gilligan: "Now, don't get sore, boss... boss... boss? Put the gun away boss... I won't squeal boss! I won't say nuttin', I promise!" Boris: "Why you yella..."
*BLAM*
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
This is exactly what's missing from the contest - neither Ken nor Boris nor Ploddick has yet uttered the exception "Why I oughta slap you good/comb your hair with lead/feed you to the fishes/insert film noir fate of your choice."
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Gilligan reminds me of Widmerpool. He gets power and influence but never manages to be One of Us (wrong sort of overcoat chap).
Also a malevolent Ken from 30 rock... "In five years, we'll all either be working for him... or be dead by his hand."
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Widmerpool OTM
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
i think the standard would find SOMEONE to run attack pieces on ken, were gilligan otherwise engaged, guys.
― banriquit, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
we got hateful zings for them too
― blueski, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 10:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bring back Christopher Monckton with his "gas all proles" columns. At least you knew where you were.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 11:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tom D - good shooting.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 11:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
The defence of Gilligan that he's been beaten up by a journo misrepresenting him is hilarious. Biter bit and all that, though it remind me of a friends who made the point isn't that the media are dominated by the middle class, it's that the media are dominated by a media class who are another fucking species.
I had some sympathy for Gilliagn through this because there is stuff about the Ken regime which as a journo, it's his job to get. But he's a bitter little prick who is actually a bit dim.
As with his sexing up report, he went slightly too far than his brief which left Greg Dyke flagging in the wind having backed his journalism. Indeed, Ken was as ill-served by Jasper in the exact same way as Dyke was ill-served by Gilligan.
― The Boyler, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Very well put
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think it's less a defence and more that it would have been a better interview had Aitkenhead confronted him on the facts a bit more, rather than being wise after the event and writing around his responses. But I agree with your overall point.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
A good point I think to remind everyone of plantation owner Aitkenhead's assertion that black culture isn't black culture.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hello, Boyle!
I hope you have been campaigning for Ken with the same passion and eloquence that so moves and entertains me when I hear you talking in the boozer.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
What was that time you were talking about Eagleton and T Wilson ... and socialism and Catholicism? Maybe it was a post-xmas fap? or in the GHS, or both. Good nights, anyway.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bring back transportation
― Ed, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
If Boris dont win. the election? will he go full time on T.V ? He is one of the best at telling jokes, His ,humour is his strongest point? very few funny men left in show business ,today hes the best.
jimadore, cardiff
Recommended by 2 people
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
I hope this one is a joke
The main weaknesses of London are of course Transport and Housing. The Paris model is the one to follow, first class public transport to ferry the masses in, (and most importantly) out of the City at night. We need to preserve the centre of London for the law abiding middle classes and transport the rest of the populace underground so they can serve us efficiently. Social harmony comes from housing and transporting like with like - not the crazy jealousy inspiring London model of failed mixing.
― Ed, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
I can't bring myself to click that link.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
Is that one of Boris's? After all, "he is one of the best at telling jokes"
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 13:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
As Mayor of London I would:
1. Demolish everything outside Zone 1 and replace it with enormous tower blocks. 2. Put all the blacks and immigrants and poor people there. 3. Watch the cars burn.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Sorry, Ed, that was one of mine.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
PF - alas, I'm not a Laboour Party member, nor London resident, so my efforts have been limited to scaring colleagues and friends who do have a vote and who express neutral comments about Johnson.
I have a memory of that discussion, but not my point. I must have been tired by that time of the evening.
― The Boyler, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Deport the Scots, northerners and Welsh:
The main problem for London, and the entire South East, is chronic over population. Get rid of that and most of the other problems congestion, housing costs, airport capacity etc. would be cured overnight.… and for those about to cry ‘immigration’ yes that is part of the problem. However most of the recent ‘immigrants’ to London have come from elsewhere in the UK. We need to encourage people to stay in their home towns and make them great instead of migrating to the big city.Mark K, London, UKRecommended by 14 people
… and for those about to cry ‘immigration’ yes that is part of the problem. However most of the recent ‘immigrants’ to London have come from elsewhere in the UK. We need to encourage people to stay in their home towns and make them great instead of migrating to the big city.
Mark K, London, UK
Recommended by 14 people
― Ed, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
'However most of the recent ‘immigrants’ to London have come from elsewhere in the UK. We need to encourage people to stay in their home towns and make them great instead of migrating to the big city.'
OTM. Keep the south soft.
― Pete W, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yea verily, sendeth Dick Whittington and his accursed cat back to whence they came
― Tom D., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
Getting rid of that ridiculous $25 Charge
Di, London
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
And he's still struggling to gain the Shropshire vote...
Most important thing in this election? Getting rid of Red Ken!
Laugh On, Shropshire, United Kingdom
Recommended by 18 people
― Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
The most important issue for me is that nobody to do with Labour gets in. End of.
PeterC, Belfast
How's the Ken/Boris vote divided in the Borough of Belfast at the moment?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
Are there still no Labour candidates for anything in Northern Ireland full stop?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 14:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think the only mainland parties to have crossed over are (the Greens I guess and) the Tories, kind of strangely.
Some guy in Belfast was telling me that he was going to vote for them as a way of telling sectarian and/or squabbling NI politicians they could all piss off and I failed to dissuade him (felt too English-accented and not quite drunk enough for NO THEY'RE EVEN WORSE, and was kind of hoping for the conversation to end since over there I realised how much of What Does Party X Stand For is just something you gather over the years of living somewhere and will never appear on their website etc).
― a passing spacecadet, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 15:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think that Graham Norton is quite keen on Boris though.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 15:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'd deport all you zone 7 parasites for sure
― DG, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 15:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's zone 10 now, unless you have a particular vendetta against those from chorleywood, rickmansworth and watford.
― Ed, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 15:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
well yes in fact i do! death to the town that spawned geri halliwell
― DG, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 15:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Chorleywood always sounds as though it should be five miles up the road from Blackpool.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 15:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Go and vote people
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 06:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't think the communist party has a candidate
― ken c, Thursday, 1 May 2008 06:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
But "Mayor of London" is a title not even Johnson always seems to want. One story has it that when a staff member reminded him that on Aug. 24, he would have to appear in Beijing to accept the Olympic flag on behalf of London, the host of the 2012 Summer Olympics, Johnson flipped through his calendar.
"But I'm in Tuscany that week!" he said.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,548062,00.html
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 1 May 2008 07:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hahahahahahahha
True blue for life
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 07:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
We need to encourage people to stay in their home towns and make them great instead of migrating to the big city
This is true. If I'd stayed in Wallasey they'd have finished that cathedral I designed.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 1 May 2008 08:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
There's some dreadful ineffective scaremongering in G2 today, the sort of "he's not a serious candidate, he'll fuck everything up" that's reminiscent of Labour propaganda pre-Ken getting elected. When what we should really be worried about is if Boris gets in and doesn't actually fuck it up, and if he surprises people by taking to the Mayor's role well.
Above all else, I'm looking forward to being reminded what it feels like to vote with conviction and enthusiasm. It's been a long time.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 08:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Indeed. And much as I would vote against Boris no matter who the alternative, I still feel like I'm voting for Ken. Can't see that happening for a while.
As if the Guardian lot need to be scaremongered.
― Upt0eleven, Thursday, 1 May 2008 08:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
I have no problems voting for ken, he has done a good job as mayor.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 08:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
Really? I voted this morning with a vague sense of foreboding and a stronger sense of clinging on to nurse for fear of something worse.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 08:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
That has certainly fed into my conviction and enthusiasm, Dingbod.
I wonder what proportion of the electorate weren't actually in London before 2000. It's gotta be relatively high, right?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Conviction about what? Enthusiasm for what, and whom?
I'm not really prepared to vote for Hitler on the remote off chance that he might make a decent fist as Chancellor of Germany.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Matt OTM. Stopping Hitler getting elected has stoked my fires up a bit.
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm more than a little tired of voting for the "not as evil as the Tories, erm, that's about it really" party.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
Thing is, they're not as evil as the Tories and I'm afraid when push comes to shove that's what it comes down to at the end of the day football is the real winner.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Furthermore I'll bet Boris fixed that result at Stamford Bridge last night so that the blues could beat the reds.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
I know and I continue to vote for them. It's some bullshit really.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Riding the wave of the feelgood factor surging throughout London as Chelsea reach the Champions League Final...............
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Transport, the one thing that really effects me and the thing he has most power over has improved leaps and bounds over his 8 years in power. I don't really have any views on crime and policing because I see very little crime and a lot of police, something must be working but I'll admit my area is pretty low crime anyway.
Housing is still a big problem in London but the mayor's office has very little control over it. Healthcare in London could be better but again very little control. He is doing what he can on climate change and I approve of the LEZ and £25 congestion charge.
Do I think Gordon brown is doing a good job as PM, do I think much of the labour government in general, Fuck No. I'm not voting in a general election, I am voting for Mayor of London and I was happy to cast my vote for Ken Livingstone, Nicky Gavron and the Green list. (I'm not 100% behind the green's policies but I think they should be in the asembly and in parliament too so that they can air them).
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
"BLUE IS THE COLOUR" etc. (xp)
I just couldn't get excited about voting for Ken (as opposed to voting against Boris) is all.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
Actually, I have no views on Nicky Gavron so a vote for gher was a tactical anti tory vote in camden and barnet.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Of course it's bullshit but "not as evil as the Tories" takes on some serious added bite when its the first election in 16 years that they might conceivably win.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm not voting in London tho Matt. Obviously I want BJ to Not Win, but beyond that election day is a depressing thing as far as the actual politics is concerned. The part of me that enjoys it as sport still gets excited every time the Beeb wheel out David Dimbleby.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Peter Snow forever.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah but he's the Flav to Dimbleby's Chuck D.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
Dimbleby and Snow - be still, my throbbing swingometer.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
Does anyone have a link to where you can find out candidates' voting records/policies etc? The London Elects site just lists who's standing. (Re London Assembly candidates obv - I'm definitely voting Ken for Mayor)
I'm probably going to vote Jennette Arnold (Labour) anyway, but I figured I may as well vote with some kind of information behind it.
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 1 May 2008 09:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
From the Eveny Stannit website:
"Vote Ken Livingstone, get Socialist Action."
mmmm...
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
"We really hate our former ES Magazine restaurant critic!"
― suzy, Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Jol out"
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
"bring back Ashton"
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
"... and Gardner and Dyke"
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
If you believe Cilla Black, Liverpool have always been the Protestant/Conservative club on Merseyside! (It's rubbish, obv.)
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
So Cilla is a Liverpool fan then?
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
I am extremely dubious about this since top Tory DJ Ed "Stewpot" Stewart is a well-known Everton fan.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 10:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
From comments on the Standard editorial yesterday...
Ken did well, but I wont put him 1st or 2nd on my ballot paper now. House of Lords mate, and well done, but Give us Boris and some energy
- John Ellis, London UK
When people who think you'be done well vote against you you're in trouble.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Didn't thatcher get in with nothing more than a "it's time for a change" type reasoning?
― Mark G, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
I suspect the people who voted for her were not thinking "yeah Labour's done well but let's try this bird, what the hell".
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." Not only that - they look like a pair of gormless sixth formers.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
I just went out to vote. The streets made me think of the GLC, of the passing years, of all that has happened, the municipal and suburban world I have known. The polling station with its quiet responsibility, its temporary moral seriousness. The sense of civic virtue in those who staff it. I took my time making the crosses, fearful of somehow getting it wrong. I placed a cross next to Ken Livingstone's name - then had to check repeatedly that I had got it right, as though constantly checking I hadn't left my keys behind. I voted Green second, because I like her and them; I know it won't count, but hope that they will know how many second votes they got. For London member, Green; for local member, Labour.
... It all moved me, voting. And I looked around the streets and thought, everyone else is doing it too - people in London surely care about this election. Perhaps this is, in some technical sense, Ken Livingstone's last day as Mayor - or perhaps that has even already gone. I am grateful to him, for his political efforts since I was a little boy.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Matt DC
why can't that work with sian berry
― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Just saw Mike on the Wallasey Cathedral. Bafflingly brilliant, as always.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
friends voting for boris is the worst :(
― ledge, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin."
Of course, Bevan's opinion of Labour in power was only one step above the Tory party.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
people in London surely care about this election
I wasn't exactly fighting thru the crowds on my way to the polling station this morning.
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Have you, or anyone outside South Africa post-apartheid, ever fought through crowds to get to a polling station?
I believe that people in London care.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
Though I wish more of them felt the way I do.
I believe for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
YouGov has it, at final polling, as Johnson 53 Livingstone 47. Which, sadly, sounds about right.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
"I believe for every drop of rain that falls someone gets wet" (Spike Milligan)
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Last one to leave for Stevenage please remember to turn out the lights.
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
If a drop of rain falls in the middle of the forest, does it make someone wet?
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
I voted around 7:20am; around the same time as I did in 2004, I believe. In 2004, I don't recall seeing a soul enter/exit the place during the 100m walk up Chevening Road, while I was in there or on my way out. This time, I saw six people. So, there you go. 185% turnout.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
Don't know if somebody's pondered this upthread or not: could a high-profile, blunder-strewn Boris mayorship actually dent the Tory's ratings before the next general election?
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3850640.ece
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
could a high-profile, blunder-strewn Boris mayorship actually dent the Tory's ratings before the next general election?
Maybe, still DO NOT WANT. Reminds me of people saying that Bush beating Kerry would be a good thing in the long run cos a 2nd Bush term would be so bad, the Dems would sweep Congress in '06. Which more or less happened but we still had another term of Bush.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
I considered that but it's clutching at straws really. Don't think he'd be in long enough to do major damage to a Cameron election campaign.
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think BJ is a bit like W.
One person who said that 2004 result was good: Slavoj Zizek, in a long letter to the LRB, which for some reason they felt compelled to print.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I was looking for crumbs of potential comfort, not a game plan.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I remember the day after that 11.2004 election, the sense of desolation - talking to people like it was the end of the world. I suppose I later came to feel that it wasn't. But of course it was still a terrible result, and two terms is two more than W should ever have had.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
Another 110 posts and we'll have beaten the US election thread for the week.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
I've been feeling a long-drawn out sense of desolation since about 6 weeks after the 1997 general election.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think it's been established in the public mind that there's a degree of separation between the Mayor and the national party, so a Boris cock-up may not necessarily harm Cameron.
Still, I don't think Cameron will allow Boris to make a balls-up of it, and Boris will be much more beholden to Cameron than Ken has been to Blair/Brown.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
I wasn't necessarily thinking of out-and-out cock-ups so much as a nice reminder to the country at large that New Conservatives aren't quite as touchy-feely as Cameron would like to paint them.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
Who could possibly think he would make a good mayor? I'm honestly befuddled. It seems like such a frivolous way to vote.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, Britain's never struck me as a country in thrall to celebrity.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
people = shit
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tracer, I don't know if you were in London at the time but there was a fairly wide-held view in 2000, particularly in the media, that Ken would be an absolute disaster as Mayor, that he wouldn't be able to run a major City, that it would be all gaffes and empty gestures etc. It didn't stop him getting elected and proving people wrong - I'm still worried about a similar thing happening with Johnson though.
Lol the thought of the country in general caring about 'touchy feely' at this point in time. "At least they're not Labour" is going to become the new "at least they're not the Tories", especially among voters too young to remember a Tory government.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't think touchy-feely is much of a vote winner in Middle England these days anyway
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tho it might persuade a few "Liberals" to vote Tory
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah that's all pretty much true. The majority of the population is probably small c conservative, and Labour's attempt to shift what conservatism means a couple of millimetres to the left has probably only been skin deep. This is a depressing train of thought tho, really depressing. It generally leads straight down to gin and cackling about people getting the government they deserve, as grimly rightly points out.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
What attempt?
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
Seriously, millimetres.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
In what direction tho?
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Allegedly more important news issues according to the BBC at the moment: babysitter to get retrial re. killing a kid, Austrian Pedodad round the twist, Maddy Maddy Maddy.
This country really will get the government it fucking deserves.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think there was an attempt to carry out some micro-redistribution of wealth which was unfortunately scuppered by their absolute terror of confronting big capital. The minimum wage is, cautiously, an improvement on how things were before. None of this is much use at all, but that's a slivver of clear blue water between them and the Tories.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Considering one of Brown's last actions as Chancellor was to cut income tax for everyone except low earners, as a vote-wining ambulance ball to his future self as Prime Minister, I'm not sure even the line that people now accept higher overall taxation in return for improved public services stands.
New Labour have slashed their own consensus, if indeed this consensus existed in the first place. If we're honest the reason they won in the first place was because the Tories ballsed up the economy and then spent the next five years fucking and bribing anything that moved.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Well maybe another 20 years of electoral kickings will sort the party out but I doubt it. lol democracy
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes, forget all that rubbish and tell me more about Haifa Wehbe
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also, if we accept that post-Thatcher global capitalism is now so dominant in Britain that no government can really go against it (big assumption but run with me), then Blair's was the first 'new' government in this environment. We don't actually know how much further to the right the Tories will run, given the opportunity.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
people upthread using toynbees microscope again
― laxalt, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
For Britain subsititute England of course
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes, sorry, I forget about Scotland.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
much as i love wee fat eck and his gang, he's hardly "going against global capitalism", is he? hello mr trump. hello what's left of the oil. etc.
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Who said he was? Who is? Osama bin Laden? Stop Scottish independence or you will really be in the shitter, for now and eternity
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
"You" being the English, of course
― Tom D., Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm not sure the shitter can get much shitter, either way. I'm sure it'll be jolly watching the Tories try tho.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
VOTE TORY FOR A COUNTRY FIT FOR RUSSIANS TO LIVE IN
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
I R Fatnick informs me he voted for winston mackenzie
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
Matt that's a good point but as many people have been pointing out in various venues (vainly so far), the ideology that markets will regulate themselves, self-correct, and serve the public good to boot is coming under severe strain. It would be ironic if it were Blair who started the first new government under the post-Thatcher free-market consensus, and Cameron who started the first new government under the breakdown of that consensus.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:27 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
Now you're just being silly. Seriously.
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
What is large march going through Holborn now? DC?
― suzy, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
Are they wearing jackboots?
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Some call it a stealth tax. I call it 'The Assassin'"
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh he's actually standing then! Mrs Dr. C signed his nomination paper cos he was knocking on doors looking for people in each borough to propose him. He was wearing that hat too! But I noticed this morning that he wasn't in the booklet of candidates that they sent out. (Best quote in the booklet : "I'm voting for the BNP because I'm Irish")
― Dr.C, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
In moving massively to the right, they have paradoxically shifted the centre ground marginally to the left - certainly the Tories STILL won't dare say they would cut taxes, as people know they would have to cut spending to do so. Labour accepted Thatcher's tax settlement, more or less, and the Tories will accept Labour's commitment to public spending. Lots of other things that we'd call "progressive" (whatever the fuck that means) that the Tories wouldn't undo. The country is much more socially liberal on homosexuality, for instance. Lots of shit too, but whatever.
On redistribution, they've actually done OK-ish. Using fiscal drag to tax medium-high income earners and redistributing the proceeds to the poor as tax credits. As far as I understand it, more than Atlee, Heath or Callaghan despite high top rates of tax. Because they've left the super-rich to get super-richer this gets forgotten.
Anyway, for the first time since 1997, I voted Labour (and Labour, Labour on the other two forms). Actually, I voted for Ken last time, but apart from that, I haven't.
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.mckenzie4mayor.co.uk/ - most of it still under construction :(
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
I suppose I'm quite happy to get my microscope out: slightly better than the other lot is good enough for me.
And jesus I hate the liberal democrats. My biggest voting regret is electing Lynne Featherstone in 2005.
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
DC, you may have thought Ken would be a disaster in 2000. I didn't, and nor did anyone I knew.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
slightly better than the other lot is good enough for me
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
A friend at the Beeb told me that less money and resources have been allocated to the London elections this year than the Scottish and Welsh elections last year, to avoid accusations of London-centricness.
― Neil S, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
I like white Tequila better than gold!
It's good enough for me to vote for, if the Tories have a real chance of getting in. It's obviously not enough, and I campaign and protest and, er, stuff, sometimes.
But if you just pretend they're all the same you let the real bastards in. And there is SOME genuine good that they've done.
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Obviously I vote and then I beat myself up about it in public forums.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
My biggest voting regret is electing Lynne Featherstone in 2005.
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
tonybee's microscope was actually in reference (in this thread) to 'Labour's attempt to shift what conservatism means a couple of millimetres to the left has probably only been skin deep' not difference between ken and boris
― laxalt, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
I know - that's what my reply was referring to.
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:47 (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
This is the dictionary definition of "liberalism", right?
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Laxalt - I don't understand the point of the microscope comment when NV had admitted as much in his own post.
Pinefox - I voted Ken in 2000, and whether or not I or your friends thought he would be a disaster is beside the point. There were a lot of people saying "he will be a disaster as Mayor" - a lot of this was right wing press and Labour propaganda and it didn't work. So simply saying "look at lol Boris he is a buffoon and will fuck everything up" isn't a very effective detterrant.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
i saw them carrying Stalin banners and making an almighty noise.
― stevie, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
No idea what it was, I could only see them from a distance, big red flags though.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mayday, gah.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Of course, I'd totally forgotten about it now the press has moved on and stopped going "THESE EVIL ANARCHISTS WILL DESTROY LONDON!"
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
also the evil anarchists are having more fun breaking into heathrow, parliament etc.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
News 24 BBC News last night, inbetween rolling repeat clips of
1) Austrian psychopath 2) falling house prices 3) the weather
aired only one (repeated) segment about the election, an extended set of voxpops with shop owners and parents at playgrounds.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't understand the point of the microscope comment when NV had admitted as much in his own post.
It wasn't a disagreement with NV!
― laxalt, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's true that the right-wing media and the Labour party said Ken would be bad for London in 2000. But as I said, I didn't think that, and nor did anyone I knew - and our view seems to have been quite popular, not crankily marginal as he won the election, far more comfortably than anyone is likely to win it today.
What kind of statement will be rhetorically useful to persuade someone to believe or do something (eg to vote in a certain way) is always very hard to say. If someone wants to vote for BJ, then I don't think anything I could say could stop them. I don't have any suggestion as to what anyone should say to stop BJ, because I wouldn't expect to be able to persuade anyone who could already contemplate doing so.
I don't so much think BJ is a buffoon - I think he is a nasty, cynical person - something of a fraud, kind of a user; maybe I feel that he is laughing at us. I also think he is hideous - utterly hideous to look at and listen to, and that his persona in this campaign has been aggressive and nasty to a deeply unpleasant degree.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
btw, people in discussions like this often say internet-hardman things like 'Basically the Tories fucked up the economy' and 'So basically under Brown the economy's going tits-up and we're all going to be fucked'.
It's not an idiom I like, in its easy, unearned crudity. But I'm also dubious of the vagueness of it. It points to the fact of economic downturn, as registered in (eg) higher unemployment or people being unable to pay their mortgages. But can the people who talk in this way say what the relevant governments should do / have done to stop things being, as they say, fucked up?
Seems to me that ups and downs, boom and bust if you like, is pretty endemic to the kind of economy we have. Talking (vaguely, and even in hard-nut style) about governments' agency in these matters may occlude that.
This is a digression from London Votes, anyway.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
Even if said government explicitly promised "no more boom and bust" repeatedly?
― onimo, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Do you not think that ups and downs might be endemic to the kind of economy we have?
Perhaps I am mistaken and they are not. I guess that could be good!
Like I said, this is a digression.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
But like I said: part of what irritates me is that it's not clear that the internet hard men really know what they would do differently, or just what the fucking-up actually meant in terms of policy detail.
You are quite right, Onimo, to say that Brown used to talk no return to boom and bust, and maybe this was misleading of him. Maybe that is just not possible. My point above was both Tory and Labour governments.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
1000th post ha!
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't claim, btw, that governments have no agency in economic policy. On the contrary, they have had a lot. Whether their agency has been lessened in the last 20 years or so is another question, I suppose.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
pinefox: your theory of boris is very close to my own.
i'm sure my friend and erstwhile collegue peter ross won't mind me posting this link to his interview with him in 2004, in which he reveals himself not just to be a boorish arsehole but a fucking stupid one, too. or maybe he doesn't care what some scottish hack/the scottish public thinks.
either way, he's a loathsome character, and the whole lolboris thing really does bring me back to that simple equation i posted this morning.
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 13:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
I hope the early polling pointing to Boris win motivates people to get down to the polling stations and so not gonna happen that shit. Can't vote myself, so PLEEEEASE go if you can.
― suzy, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Is there any kind of economy that does not have ups and downs, boom or bust? Serious question.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Indeed.
Peter Ross interview:
"Well," he says, humming and hawing, "we are all self-invented to some extent. Frankly, honestly, it's now too late to try to invent anybody else. It's exhausting. In so far as I'm an invention, this is the best I can do."
That is the most worryingly plausible thing I have ever seen / heard BJ saying. It's almost Wildean, though without the elegance.
Also in that interview he repeats the utter BS canard we saw in that recent Mamet piece: 'socialists believe in the perfectibility of man ... we conservatives are realists who accept the world as it is'. BS.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
hopefully a load of people with actual jobs will vote in the evening, outweighing the initial rush of Boris votes from legend-loving student twats who deserve to die
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Also, in my case, Pinefox, I was using deliberately crude language as a taxi driver redux of what a big swathe of the British public thought about the Tories circa 1997.
In terms of electoral attitudes, it doesn't really matter the extent to which it was Norman Lamont's fault or whether George Soros or overall global economic trends were to blame, because once you get stuck with a label for economic incompetence there's next to nothing you can do to stop the electorate hurling you out. Especially if economic incompetence is coupled with multiple scandals involving high-profile party members. The economy turned round significantly under Kenneth Clarke and it still didn't help them.
I wonder how long it will be before Brown puts Alistair Darling to the sword, and whether it will make any difference to the electorate when he does.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lol at the concept of students getting up early for anything, especially voting.
early could be 2pm to be fair
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
real talk ^
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
DC, I hope you won't mind my suggesting that I'm not sure that there is much difference between the way your imaginary taxi driver talks, and the way you write on ilx - as distinct, no doubt, from the thoughtful and creative way you think, write and talk in other contexts.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Where is this exit polling 'data' you speak of coming from?
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think DC got it from a taxi driver.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Matt DC, yesterday
"won't go south of the noize board this time of night"
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
internet hardman I like that. Like a tabloid description of [insert poster of choice].
Off-topic, I know, but:
Even if said government explicitly promised "no more boom and bust" repeatedly
Well we haven't had a boom, and we haven't had a bust yet - and almost certainly won't, even in the most negative forecasts - so fine.
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Does the housing market not qualify as a boom then?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
That'll be £20 to you, guvnor.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
You've just vomited in my back seat.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
There have been 3 booms and 3 busts during the current labour administration. Or rathe 3x hubris followed by 3x reality and correction.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
not as catchy :(
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
Overall economic boom - there has obviously been a housing one, and could be a crash, although I doubt it - but I had a long and boring fight with laxalt on another thread about that.
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Meanwhile, why can't I get a live feed of the betting balloons?
http://betting.betfair.com/mayor/heads-up-boris-leads-the-way-london-marathon-300408.html "> http://betting.betfair.com/mayor/heads-up-boris-leads-the-way-london-marathon-300408.html
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
There's a nice graph here (if I can do the effing link right).
http://www.economics.strath.ac.uk/julia/teaching/mf/L1_JD.pdf "> http://www.economics.strath.ac.uk/julia/teaching/mf/L1_JD.pdf
Then add four more year's real growth to the right.
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
Gah
at 9/4 it is almost worth backing Ken.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 14:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
An exit poll of sorts... http://vote.sparklit.com/poll.spark/1052579
― Mark G, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
^almost as bad as rickroll
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
the current data would naturally have bj in the lead, since working people are, well, still working - right?
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
Working people vote Boris too, though.
Would it be justified to go through my Facebook friends list and indiscriminately defriend everyone whose status update reads 'Vote Boris' or suchlike?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think that would show a high discriminating and upstanding character.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
i did the same for anyone who mourned jol, so yeah i guess.
― darraghmac, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Do it now!
― Jamie T Smith, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
DC, if anyone you know feels that way ... well ... how did you get friends like that in the first place?
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
no. i might do the same thing. several people on mine (hello at least two posters on this thread) are sporting some violently anti-boris ones. so am i.
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
I suspect some of mine are pro-Boris so I'm trying to goad them into revealing themselves and defriending me
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
anti-boris status updates: 6 (7 including self).
pro-boris: none.
that's reassuring.
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Think I'm 5-0, not sure about this fuckin clown though:
Lou1s Jagger YAAAAH BORIS YAAAAH. Updated about a minute ago
― That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Does facebook have an application where you can send painful electric shocks through a user's mouse yet?
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
I stopped bothering with the anti-Boris count when it got to 20, pro-Boris count is 9 or 10. The pro-Borisers are all people I went to school with - when you consider my school was about 90% working class kids from around Lewisham, I worry what this might say about a possible flight of working class votes to the Tories.
This is probably not a solid bedrock from which to begin making statistical projections, admittedly.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
essex is our texas <--- jacques perreti on the barrymore doc last night
― mark s, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
essex, brrrrr
― stevie, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
lol easy target
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
If anyone on my fbk was pro-BJ I would cut them off.
I was just thinking about the apparent difference between me and DC earlier. Really, I think we agree. He said: it will be bad if BJ gets in and succeeds, rather than buffoonishly fails. I agree. My expectation is that he *will* succeed - on his own terms, not mine (or DC's?). So has W, so did Maggie, etc - these people are not considered failures by their own side, but heroes. I think BJ will be hailed as doing very well the things he wants to do - a mixture of reactionary things, cutting back progressive things, sucking up to certain interests, and ego-tripping.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think that the 'word' 'LOL' is nowadays misused on ilx (probably elsewhere) - surely you should save it for things that actually make you laugh? Not just for things that are silly, misguided, mildly ironic or whatever.
Oh well.
When ilx started we didn't have terms like that, and most people wrote posts in paragraphs; nowadays a great many are one word or one short line. ilx has changed; perhaps other things have changed too.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't worry guys, i've single handedly fucked up the pro-boris campaign. when they were handing out boris badges,they were like 'vote boris on 1st may' and i was like "OK!" and took a badge, but really i wasn't going to, so they've one fewer badge to give out, PLUS they're probably all chillaxing now thinking THEY HAVE MY VOTE, BUT THEY DON'T. MWAHAHAHHA
― ken c, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
The suburbs shouldn't have been given the vote. Or there should have been two separate elections and they could have had all the Toryism they want and leave the city to be governed as it should be.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
ken c, striking a blow for the common man.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't worry guys, i've single handedly fucked up the pro-boris campaign
i'm sure i've regaled you with the wonderful story of how a couple of dudes from my school volunteered to do some campaigning for a tory candidate in blackpool in the early 1990s.
they drove around town for a couple of hours in a vauxhall nova plastered with VOTE TORY posters, shouting: "YOU ARE ALL CUNTS! WE ARE TORIES AND WE BUGGER BABIES! FUCK YOU ALL!" and so on.
happy days.
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
Normal for Blackpool, though.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'd vote for a candidate with that honesty tho
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh well, if we wake up tomorrow and it's 1958, we'll know whose fault it was and we'll hunt them out.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Pinefox - I'm glad you agree we agree. I wonder how serious a mess Boris (or any Mayor really) can actually make of London before their powers are curbed by central government. Ken has had additional powers given to him over the years as the govt got more comfortable with him being there - can Labour get away with narrowing Boris's remit without causing a storm?
Of course, there's a bad organising type of mess, and there's the sort of mess where you say such embarassing things that your party leadership goes into blind panic. I suspect the latter is more likely.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
It used to be all fields around London too. Increasing population, urbanisation, etc...like London, like ILx.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
we used to bury the dead where Ask Chaki! stands now
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
maybe London has to take a hit for the team? ie if ken wins, it may not help labour back on a national level, but w Boris as mayor fuxoring it up, :-/
― Alan, Thursday, 1 May 2008 15:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
Are the undead rising up in Ask Chaki? (xpost)
― Mark G, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
the bile is rising certainly
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
The Primaries thread has started up again. We need new things to say...
― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Any exit polls on this?
― onimo, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
I was about to start a 'Jim vs Maggie: It's So On' thread in the style of Kennedy assassination thread from a few months back, but thought it would just be too depressing.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'm sure we'll all be 'liveblogging' the election show later
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
I only have one pro-Boris update on my Facebook friends, but since that guy has actually stood for election as a Tory, not surprising. And he doesn't live in London anyway. But also only 1 pro-Ken. So statistically not far off current polls.
xpost * 1000
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
I've got one for Paddick as well amid all the furore and I immediately though 'awww bless', which I suspect was not the effect she was aiming for.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
will surely make no real difference either way to the general election
― laxalt, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
i'm grasping at straws in the event of bad.
― Alan, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
don't grasp at straws. grasp at BIG STICKS WITH NAILS THROUGH THE END OF THEM.
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
I just don't see how anyone could vote for Boris Johnson and have any self-respect.
I'm starting to repeat myself.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
i think people underestimate the unpopularity of the congestion charge
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Judging by the level of coverage this is getting on the BBC website, I think the visibility of the London Mayor outside London isn't exactly great, unless there's a terrorist attack or we win another major sporting tournament or something. Is that right? So an almighty cock-up by Boris may not make much of a difference to the Tories unless he starts a war with Manchester or something.
Also, if Ken wins, and Labour do badly everywhere else, the national headlines will read 'LABOUR TROUNCED IN LOCAL ELECTIONS' with 'Ken Livingstone squeaked back in in London' in the second paragraph somewhere.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
Was I mis-hearing the Beeb this morning saying that the Election show tonight is being co-hosted by Emily Eavis with some political blogging chums of hers, as well as a Dimblebore?
― Rob M v2, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
My work is pretty much all pro-Boris except me as far as I can see.
I'm not feeling hopeful.
When I lived in Newcastle I can't remember hearing about the London Mayor at all really beyond calls for Newcastle/North East to have someone with similar powers.
― Raw Patrick, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
No-one at my work has even mentioned the election. However, all the people who sit around me live outside London, so I guess it's not important to them.
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 1 May 2008 16:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
― James Mitchell, Thursday, 1 May 2008 17:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Uncomfortable expression or what?
Today's voting music was 'Old Teenagers' by Atilla the Stockbroker in honour of LOL BORIS LEGEREND AND HIS FACEBOOK MORONS.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 17:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yup. No one outside London gives a shit about any of this, which is both good and bad, should Boris win.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 17:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
*waves cheerily from glasgow*
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 17:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
(not that i'm particularly representative of anything, of course!)
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 17:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
My non-London friends without doubt give more of a shit about this than my London ones. My sister was just about to not vote at all because "well we'd have to take the kids". (Don't worry, gf, she felt my boot.)
― Zoe Espera, Thursday, 1 May 2008 17:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
heheheheheh. good work. (and a fine status update, too, incidentally.)
― grimly fiendish, Thursday, 1 May 2008 19:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
I voted for Ken again, same as in 2004, and same as I would have done in 2000 if I hadn't been disenfranchised by moving house too often to be able to register.
Back upthread: Waltham Forest - Con -- Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:16 (2 days ago)
I'd be surprised if it isn't Labour. I'm pretty sure Walthamstow and Leyton and probably Leytonstone would be Labour and only Chingford would be Tory.
― Nasty, Brutish & Short, Thursday, 1 May 2008 19:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Perhaps, I get a bit hazy out there.
I voted, in the end. On of the strangest things about the voting proces, for me, is that I'm still registered at my parents' house, and I end up voting in the hall at my old primary school. In the infants' school, where I was from age 5-7 or something. The fact that I still go in there every couple of years to do my democratic duty as an adult nearing 30 means the act of voting resonates with me in ways it probably doesn't with many others.
Also, there was music playing at low volume on a stereo when we came in. I didn't know what it was until the chorus kicked in, as I was in the voting booth. Then I realised it was Never Gonna Give You Up, and felt cheated, like I'd been rickrolled at the ballot box.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 20:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
You could be right, but it's worth noting "WE ARE NOT LONDON-CENTRIC" is a huge huge drummed into your brain mantra in the BBC at the moment.
― Ronan, Thursday, 1 May 2008 20:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
There was a q at my polling station and weirdly the two people in front of me both work in my office. Fancy.
― Pete W, Thursday, 1 May 2008 20:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 21:22
Yeah as if Boris bloody Johnson would run for mayor. lol London, you got punk'd!!
― Bodrick III, Thursday, 1 May 2008 21:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Says Livingstone as the Rick Astley classic played at "ballot stations" around the capital: "Haha... just a bit of a laugh there guys, we're not actually having any elections. Brezhnev didn't need 'em, neither do I."
― Bodrick III, Thursday, 1 May 2008 21:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Jol out.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 21:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
Back upthread: Waltham Forest - Con -- Matt DC, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:16 (2 days ago)I'd be surprised if it isn't Labour. I'm pretty sure Walthamstow and Leyton and probably Leytonstone would be Labour and only Chingford would be Tory.
lol @ election rickrolling!
No results at all so far then.
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
Fuckwit Radio 2 DJ in jeans describing Rochdale as a classic Lib Dem/Conservative swing council then swiftly moving on to pretty much invisible visual gags about Bean/Stalin.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
Jesus, this is awkward. If this had an audience it would be like a really bad Brit Awards.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
They've nicked the Boris caricature out of Private Eye, then?
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
'Boris's dad, Dave from Blur and Michael Portillo'
COMING UP
― Upt0eleven, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
BBC North appears to be leading with Barnsley possibly slipping from Labour control...
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Big turnouts in inner London too according to Nick thingy.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
I love this polling guy.
He has such a beautiful accent.
Seriously. Fucking jeans. What a tosser.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
Erm... is the BBC in Not-Leeds running ahead of the BBC in Leeds, then? I am currently looking at Jeremy Vine wafting near a map.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
someone (nick thingie?) just called ken livingstone "ken loving"?
the map guy is like.. STANDING IN THE ZODIAC
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
Re: jeans - I could probably take an acoustic session from British Sea Power over Tessa Jowell talking about anything at all.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
so is there no mayoral news? if this was the united states they would have called it for somebody hours ago
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
jowell out
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, hardly anything on the BBC site.
― Bodrick III, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
i have no interest in Tessa Jowell's point of view: i want to hear what Dave from Blur has to say.
― Upt0eleven, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mayoral not counted til tomorrow, apparently.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
george osborne sometimes has this implied "...you ass" tacked onto the end of what he says
i love watching charles kennedy talk about anything
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh, Rhyming Slang Crick...
Osborne kinda looks like Mr Bean fused with Piers Morgan. As drawn by the artists from The Dandy circa 1951-ish.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
is anything interesting happening or can i safely watch law & order till 1?
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Graun sez: this election is not just about the exotic Ken v Boris contest which will not be declared until Friday afternoon or evening - unless the count goes into extra time.
― G00blar, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
There's a Welsh woman insisting that Wales exists. Tories apparently quietly confident in Barry. She's basically speculating like heck, but Plaid Cymru are apparently feeling bullish.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
xpost But maybe everyone knew that.
(side note before I leave the thread...I didn't figure out that I was allowed to vote until the other day, already too late to register. So if Boris wins, it'll be my fault.)
― G00blar, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
BLOGGERS!
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
city hall is clearly where the sexiness is happening.
― Upt0eleven, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Live Blogging. This is some serious fucking bullshit right here.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
i thought adrian edmonson was on itv these days?
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
No results for London mayor till tomorrow, I think we don't start counting in London till the morning, a curious distinction we share with Northern Ireland,
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
Blogging on TV: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xVaZwJn-ZcM
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
for documentary purposes, what's happening on the rolling news channel is a recorded segment (while everyone else takes a pee):
"the bloggers have been at it," the reporter says, standing in high heels next to a stool in what looks like a futuristic bar / internet cafe, "well, like bloggers"
"we'll look into all the little eccentricities of the bloggers" she promises
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 22:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
"twitter"
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:00 (5 years ago) Permalink
that girl john culshaw was talking to = whoa. get her on.
hahahaha oh yeah "we'll be listening to all the... twitter"
she just repeated it, oh god i can't believe this isn't a send-up, jessica hynes would kill this
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lib Dems: "Gordon Brown is the best canvasser for the Lib Dems"
Not just blogs, but zings too.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
this is some next level badly done television
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah the poor map guy with his jeans.... won't somebody get this man some pants?? i mean trousers
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Man if Ken v Boris is exotic I hate to think what the rest of Britain must be like these days. You poor lambs!
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Any idea who that one "other" in Tamworth is? BBC doesn't seem to have it down.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Having charlie kennedy as a pundit = look folks he's dried out give him his party back
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
jowell is a disaster on tv shocker
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tessa Jowell digging one hell of a hole for herself right now.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tony King is surprised that the Tories haven't taken Worcester - apparently they just needed one seat to get total control and they didn't manage it, so it's No Overall Control.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Vine has a coat. HAPPY NOW, INTERNET?
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
The thing that annoys me, endlessly, about New Labour, is how they endlessly bang on about Middle England and how they must win it but rarely any specifics about what it is they are improving when they're in power.
Tessa Jowell encapsulates that awful vacuousness perfectly, like they became experts at winning elections but awful at communication after that, beyond "blah blah stable economy etc". Possibly out of sheer blind fear that anything they said would see the population of Britain throwing them out for these evil sinful things.
Sorry, I know this is nothing new.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
This Ascension of Man graphic describing the Tories' election progress is astonishing.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
OK WTF is this ascent of conservative man graphics, has Viz had so many of our license fees for this?
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
what is on dimblebey's rolodex. it looks like it probably controls time.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
is everyone ten minutes behind me or something?
Four councils in Yorkshire reporting, and Leeds isn't one of them.
Barnsley is an interesting one - Labour losing seats to the Barnsley Independent Group, a bunch of disaffected old Labour types. But now Labour have won one back off the Lib Dems...
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
i thought i hallucinated that thing with the transparent monoliths
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
barnsley result is cute, but not particularly significant. labour won't lose those votes at a general election.
sheffield will be interesting.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
LOL Polly Toynbee as official voice of the Labour Party, up against Portillo and some LibDem dude.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
gah this "twitter" woman is just brutal
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Portillo sticks it into Boris - "Tories desperate to win with a candidate that embarrasses them". Ouch.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Those Yorks councils tonite. - Barnsleh, Rotherham, Doncaster, and West Lindsey. It is apparently impossible for Labour to lose Rotherham because they have too many councillors.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
west lindsey gone to the tories already
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Labour will never lose anything in south yorkshire outside south west Sheffield as long as I am alive.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
dimbleby abandoned in the studio!!
portillo's chicken neck a bit alarming
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
xp, crypto-labour thing in barnsley notwithstanding
West Lindsey is the first Tory gain of the night, LibDems gain Hull from NOC. Look North managed to not mention this at all.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tories gain five seats in Sunderland? Ruddy hell...
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think Vine's BS dumb graphics are a stupid terrible trivialization.
Hello, Tracer Hand.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
That Sunderland result is a nasty weathervane. RIP Gordon Brown.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Is Vine ad-libbing? Cos his style's just reminding me of bid-up.tv a lot (our Freeview box starts on that for some reason).
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
think I've missed some Maitlis moments. I think she's an attractive woman, really, but her talking about Bloggers earlier was not good. what are they gonna do? press buttons and ... write things ... off camera? ... pointless.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Vine is announcing results of a vague poll - doesn't mean much
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
sunderland representative of the national swing? not so sure.
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Election nigh has always been about BS graphics, last time we had Labour digging holes.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Polly T is not official voice of the party: she is a decent progressive woman; bless her.
Ed, these graphics feel different to me -- a different level of BS. hard to explain.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
This NHS poll is basically just based on people guessing, isn't it?
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Nick Robinson has a blog too! Blogarama!
Nuneaton has swung to the Tories after 30-something years, with two seats gained by BNP. Fudge.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
They have just upgraded their news studios, they have shiny new VizRT systems replacing Quantels which they have had for 3 or 4 years.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
Labour lose Nuneaton council
I don't know where that is
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
Labour lose Nuneaton & Bedworth to the Tories, a council they've held for 34 years. Ouch.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
Trent Valley.
― Ed, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
Harlow goes Conservative.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think the novelty value of "I am watching an election!" is starting to wear off again, and I'm about to become progressively more depressed while posting semi-frivolously, and maybe I would be better off sleeping.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
They're not really updating that ticker graphic at the bottom, are they?
Don't worry PF, Jowell doesn't seem to know where Nuneaton is either. Tony King projects Labour gloom.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hey guys, I don't think the rest of Britain is going to care much about Ken and Boris.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
Unless Boris wins, of course.
Here's Culshaw. Apprently Boris Johnson = Henry Blofeld. And Gordon Brown is constantly teetering on the verge of Chris Eubank.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
ASK HIM WHAT TOM BAKER WOULD THINK.
He still hasn't worked out how to do an impression of David Cameron, has he?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Shit, that Nuneaton & Bedworth result - that used to be a two-party council. BNP have picked up two seats there from scratch.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Maitlis / Culshaw - terrible.
Christ, Culshaw is not very good at impressions
and doesn't seem to know anything about politics.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
He didn't even try to do Cameron. I think Maitlis probably thought he would ... and he didn't. He was awful throughout.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think Maitlis' "Wolverhampton... primaries and Sheffield caucuses" line was quite possibly the low point, tho.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
tessa jowell appaears to be slowly melting
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
oh WTF is this
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Perhaps I can go via Jeremy Vine. You'll enjoy this Charles."
"Or I might not."
No. He's not going to.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
Kennedy's face before realising he was on camera there...
fuck me
― caek, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
Um...
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
this is going to be a youtube favourite
― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
So... Boomhauer, then.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
I turned off at the wrong time, didn't I?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
privatise the BBC now
― DG, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tories have apparently got Southampton with a seven-seat swing.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Eight-seat gain. Crikey.
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
yes, that Vine thing will be on youtube ... if anything will. (I don't know how things get on youtube - but it's the kind of thing that does.)
― the pinefox, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ditto. I know he's not my fault, but can I apologize to the world for Jeremy Vine.
WHO THOUGHT OF THAT ITEM?
WHY?
DERE LORD WHY?
Has he ever met an American?
― Pete, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
it was silly ... but it's as if a kind of showmanship and silliness has taken over from all else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh3UlZcRQrY
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
"things are hotting up in blogland"
― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lib Dem blog commenters not down with Vine. Maitlis "distancing herself from those... blog... comments..."
― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 1 May 2008 23:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
it's the drummer from blur!
― DG, Friday, 2 May 2008 00:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
This is some crap spinning from Southampton dude, here.
― William Bloody Swygart, Friday, 2 May 2008 00:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Jeremy Vine is now manning a graphic whereby the best result for Gordon Brown is that he is perceived as Stalin.
― William Bloody Swygart, Friday, 2 May 2008 00:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
BNP pick up three in Rotherham, their first ever seats in South Yorkshire.
― William Bloody Swygart, Friday, 2 May 2008 00:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Conservatives lose Colchester and hold Plymouth.
Is there really no Labour-controlled council in the south of England?
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 00:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Reading?
― caek, Friday, 2 May 2008 01:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
(labour since 97)
― caek, Friday, 2 May 2008 01:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
LOL OMFG!!!! BORIS DONE A GUFF!!!! ROFL!!!!!!! THE MAN IS A LEGERND I TELL YOU LOL!!!!! I CARNT WAIT 2 SEE HIM RUNNING THE INTIRE CITTY!
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 01:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
bunch of kunts. boris heading for victory.
― Frogman Henry, Friday, 2 May 2008 02:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lots of Toryboys on TV going "prrp prrp prrp" smugly.
I'd forgotten what THEY looked like.
― Mark G, Friday, 2 May 2008 05:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
WTF
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7379267.stm
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 06:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
This is what we was referring to above. Not only a stupid presentation with robo Clegg graphics, but absolutely pointless in terms of content to boot.
― Pete, Friday, 2 May 2008 06:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Gutted to the core about the BNP in Rotherham (where I grew up) - a sad sad sad day.
This is not boding well at all for Ken, is it? Or is that the point of Ken, that he can be seen as a non-labour thing entirely with his purple campaign and generally disassociation from the party? I can only frickin hope.
― Zoe Espera, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
R4 suggesting labour in third place based on the local results ... 160+ seats lost? luckily, everyone's saying: "yeh, but the tories are still cunts." (well, not in so many words at 7.30am, but you get the idea.)
labour's lost hartlepool!
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
R4 also v quiet about rotherham ... four minutes into the 8am bulletin and it's not been mentioned.
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Can't believe I'm on this thread this early. How's life in bold new Tory Britain?
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
bn-cunting-p have gained 8 seats, according to BBC news website.
cameron surprisingly and mercifully unsmug about tory gains, which is something, i guess.
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
Fucking depressing (x-post)
One of the main problems Labour's now got is that business/media/anyone influential doesn't see any point in engaging with it.
With that background, trying to take forward any major policies that might make a difference will be virtually impossible for Gordon B.
― Bob Six, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Personally, I'm starting to feel precislely the opposite of whatever it was I was feeling on 2/5/1997. May have intensified considerably by dinner time.
Can v easily envisage Tories winning next gen election now.
― Zoe Espera, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
I wonder if Ken wonders if he should have simply have apologised to that Standard journalist at the outset and avoided a long-term personalised campaign against him.
― Bob Six, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
john humphrys to nick robinson: "so, labour will have lost london too?"
i'd like to think that's not a given; that ken transcends labour; that boris's pointlessness transcends protest voting (and indeed zany student pranking). but i fear the worst.
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
fucking stupid england.
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
Same as it was yesterday.
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 07:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh good grief.
I think that's all I can manage.
― a passing spacecadet, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
If voting actally changed anything, it would have been banned years ago!
― Mark G, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
I just watched Vine's Shootout Saloon again and - yes, it's utterly daft - but it actually kind of impresses me, the way he remembers the script and delivers it, and keeps his silly accent as long as he has his hat on.
I'm afraid that jokes about Stalin are in terrible taste: how about graphics of Cameron as Hitler, wondering if he can make a big push? No good.
People on this thread are lamenting the (local) results, as though a Tory Britain is a terrible thing, and Labour / Lib Dem losses are sad. I agree entirely. But were you all saying the same thing for the last 10 years, or disdaining Labour and ignoring the Tory threat? Have we perhaps been complacent about the prospect that faces us now? (Not that our complacency, if it exists, makes much practical difference one way or the other.)
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
i've been rather more concerned about what's going on up here than in england. and, y'know, we managed to get rid of labour WITHOUT USHERING IN THE MOTHERFUCKING TORIES, for fuck's sake :)
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
also: tory "britain"? no, i don't think so.
really, as if i wasn't pro-independence enough already. fuck me, bring on the woad.
acc R4: turnout in liverpool central <10%. i'm speechless on that one.
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
If only the SNP had put forward a candidate for Mayor of London.
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
(in all seriousness: a tory england is one of the best selling points scottish independence could have: this has been discussed by iain macwhirter and others at some length now.)
If only the SNP had put forward a candidate for Mayor of London
i think salmond might have quite relished that, just for shits and giggles.
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
a tory england is one of the best selling points scottish independence could have
OTM. However Rangers reaching the final of the UEFA Cup might have given support for the Union a little shot in the arm.
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 08:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
The top four recommended comments are actually scary.
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
National share something like Con/LD/Lab: 44/25/24? Amazing(ly awful). I mean, you can lop off 10 from the LibDems in a General Election, maybe divvy it up 6/4 to Lab, and perhaps Con have a 3pt swing over Lab at local level, and then there's Scotland to factor in - but anyway you slice it, this maps to at least a 1979-level Tory GE win. Lot of work to do in the next two years.
Jeremy Vine stuff last night was just beyond parody. I think it may have been beyond Pluto. You can take your Day Today DVDs and throw them in the bin. They're useless now.
― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Jeremy Vine = Fake Plastic Snow
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 09:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
'Socialist fascists' eh!
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Those people on that BBC thread are the people we share a country with. Perhaps I am too often apt to forget that in a haze of fellow feeling for my compatriots.
They write so badly - it's amazing what people will happily stick online, for the world to see, under their own names.
But it's amazing that people would vote BJ, and they do, in hundreds of thousands (or is it millions)?
JOIN ME.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
.. and that's a 'moderated' board.
How did that "if Ken wins, it's the biggest voting rigging scandal ever, RMugabe would be proud" comment pass, legally standing?
― Mark G, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Those BBC favourite comments give me the fear. The Bee En Pee messageboard must have coach trips there to vote anything mentioning them up, right? Ugh.
go Boris! Those of us in greater London cannot wait to see the smirk wiped off the face of Red Ken as he faces having to work for a living!
Ah, good old hard-working Boris, kicked out of a succession of first jobs (Times reporter/management consultancy - yr average working person's early-20s jobs, obviously) for reasons like "found it all terribly dull" or "oh, just make it all up, who cares?".
Er, yeah, I have to stop now or I'd be spitting bile at all of them ("aren't poor people disgusting" in same post as "oh noes 10p tax rate debacle", etc).
― a passing spacecadet, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
I've long thought that 'comments', as with other communications to newspapers by readers, should be screened for spelling, grammar and general coherence before appearing in any forum of any newspaper of record.
― suzy, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
by whom, and who is going to pay them?
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ed, newspaper sites are moderated so someone's already basically being paid to filter comments; what's wrong with spiking those which don't come up to x standard of written English, and making it clear when people register to leave comments that this is the case?
― suzy, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
The fascists are probably just recommending each others comments to drive them to the top.
The last few times I've visited London, it's been wholly pleasant, I felt it would be a good place to live. Glad I don't live there now.
People on some musician's board I post on (probably take a step back from it a bit now TBH) are all "haha those thieving labour cunts deserve a good kicking" WTF GAZE INTO THE ABYSS FOOLS.
― Pashmina, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Unfortunate timing of lead review on Pitchfork.
― Pete, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
Moderated yes, subedited no
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
what's wrong with spiking those which don't come up to x standard of written English
Conversely, however, that would also filter out comments from immigrants for whom English is a second language.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
I really felt like wearing a black armband today.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
A black shirt would have been more appropriate
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 10:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Is it just me or is the grey text on Pitchfork unreadable no matter what size I put it to?? Using Firefox on a PC here
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
And I hope Labour learn from this and go back to being a proper Labour Party because basically Mr and Mrs Hitler of Auschwitz Avenue, Little Drippings, will fuck you up no matter whether you try to placate them or not.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Agreed, but then what does it mean to be a labour party in 2008?
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
Think of it in cycling terms. Is it better to be leading or on the shoulder of the leader coming into the last few hundred metres?
(of course the analogy breaks down when you realise that Labour aren't on the shoulder of the tories, they're the lanterne rouge at the back of the peloton)
― Mark C, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
I never suggested they would get subbed - but that happens for brevity's sake already - I was more into spiking TBH, with a blanket SORRY YOUR COMMENT WAS UNFIT FOR PUBLICATION. PLEASE REFER TO COMMENT GUIDELINES. Most immigrants with ESL have a far higher standard of written English than these morons.
― suzy, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
I would say that the LP are the domestiques who have dropped back behind the peleton to bring their ailing lead rider forward.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
Guardian more or less calling it for Johnson.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/02/london08.london?gusrc=rss&feed=uknews
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Maybe we'll get a Boris = drugz cheat revelation before he can take office.
― Mark C, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
Even the Liberal Democrats reported a high turnout for their candidate, Brian Paddick, in south-west London, the Liberal Democrat stronghold in the capital.
HI DERE
― Mark C, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
high turnout in inner london could save ken yet, (please)
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
clutching at straws here
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
subbed (and suspiciously one-dimensional) comments on this Indy article:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/waiting-game-as-final-poll-shows-boris-threatens-to-drive-ken-out-of-city-hall-819826.html
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-mayor/article-23481624-details/How+they+voted+-+leading+Londoners+reveal+their+political+leanings/article.do
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tom Conti, actor
Boris/Second preference Brian
"Boris is definitely getting my vote. He's not a class warrior like Ken. There's no room for that in society any more. London needs hope and Boris offers hope.
"Ken bought more buses but the wrong sort. Boris's promises on new Routemasters are a tall order but I think he knows that. This nannying is ridiculous. If you run after a bus, leap on and land flat on your face, that's your fault."
I chose a bad time to move to London didn't I?
I dread to think what London's going to be like in four years' time.
― Jill, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
How come hackney is called 'inner city'?
― G00blar, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Molly Parkin, painter
Boris
"I am horrified with myself but I am going to be voting for Boris despite having been Left-wing all my life.
"I think he would inject some fun and sophistication into London. I rather like his baby-blond hair and he's much more my sort of chap.”
One-woman advert for the Taliban ahoy.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Wonder if Tom Conti uses buses
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Gooblar, it's because white people say so.
Lokk, you guys, YouGov poll was conducted on behalf of the EVENING BASTARD.
― suzy, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tom Cunti more like, he's brought shame on Paisley, the town that gave you, errrrrrrrrr, Andrew Neil... ok scrub that
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 10:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
idiot schlebs not really understanding STV (I fear for teh rest of london.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hopefully Conti will keep on refusing to pay his congestion charge and next time the bailiffs will rip the shirt off his fucking turncoat back.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yer daughter's shite too, Conti, ya bass
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 10:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Metro poll called it for Ken this morning /clutching at straws
I read that Cunti/Parkin/etc article last night. Scum, subhuman scum.
― Colonel Poo, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Pinefox, can you rugby-tackle Grayling next time you see him?
― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
Preferably with Daisy Goodwin, compiler of Poems That Could Save Your Life BANG BANG whoops they didn't did they Daisy?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
If only more people read the sport
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ppls stated reasons for voting boris are unbelievable!
"He's going to inject more 'fun' into London"
"oh noes bendy buses instead of routemasters nanny state oh noes"
"haha those thieving labour cunts deserve a good kicking"
"It's more about change for me. I just want to get Ken out and Boris will certainly be entertaining. "
I hate this country today.
― Pashmina, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Entertainment beat competence for leader of the greatest city on the planet (tm). Idiots, time to emigrate.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
Andrew Roberts, Historian
"I am voting for Boris because it is his chance to show he is a figure of substance and because of the Standard's many revelations about Ken."
My God, man - you're a historian! Evidence, facts, research, sources, citations? He swallowing what the ES is pushing? I despair.
― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
silver lining, tory councilors are going to be much less media savvy and much more old school bigots so we should get a shitstorm of feet in mouths across the country as hundreds of new tory councilors speak out.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
"He swallowing" - I'm so angry I can't type!
― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
"You know, not many people knew about it, but der Fuhrer vas a terrrrrrrrrrific dancer..."
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 11:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
That nanny state Conti comment is grimly hilarious, possibly because he imagines everyone in London is actually Homer Simpson.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, the Andrew Roberts thing was incredible but not wholly surprising. Much more shocked by Grayling.
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Sorry I'm on a Producers kick:
Brown: "No way out. No way out. No way out" Balls: "Prime Minister!" Brown: "No way out. No way out. No way out" Balls: "We've only heard from a small portion of the electorate. Let's hear what the majority thinks." Brown "The majority? The majority... yes... let's hear from the majority... where's the majority... see the majority..."
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 11:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
(in his capacity as historian, a.roberts has described the policies of the attlee govt as "appeasing" the working classes) (<-- won't help yr temper michael but indicates where roberts is always comin from)
i'm not shocked by grayling at all but only bcz i not long witnessed his behaviour on a message-board where some philosophically minded interweb types had been critcising something he'd written: he arrived and immediately pulled massive self-important stroppy imnpenetrably arrogant rank in regard to his massive intellect and professional qualifications, while not addressing any of the points made -- a demonstration to me of his actual politics, if you like: how he behaves towards people when more or less off-screen
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
My philosophy friends tell me he's a shit philosopher too
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 11:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
GOD DAMN YOU. GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL.
― emil.y, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
How surprising that regular ES contributor Andrew Roberts should express such support in an ES poll.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think I'm going to visit London and go all Christie Malry on your asses. What was the balancing of 'socialism not given a chance' again?
― emil.y, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
Just as well I drink bottled water!
Anyone in London up for a "NOT IN OUR NAME"-type march?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
where is grayling punditry?
― ledge, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Up here, ledge.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bookies are now paying out on a Boris win, btw.
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
Sod it, I'm going to the pub.
― Colonel Poo, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
why/how would bookies know the correct results in advance of anyone else?
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Cameron & Boris: revenge of the pompous twats :-(
― StanM, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
I know! Why don't we all dress up in tailcoats and...trash their houses?
― suzy, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
224 Councilors lost and counting.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's this fucking war. Nobody believes a word Labour says.
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Two of the new ones in Southampton are 18 years old. Kids, it shouldn't be allowed. No, really.
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
Sir Clive Sinclair
"I'm not going to run Ken down because I think he's been a good Mayor, good at promoting London and a great ambassador. However, we need a fresh approach, so I'll vote for Boris."
;_;
― DG, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
FUCK YOU, I WISH I'D HAD A COMMODORE 64
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
Presenting: The Sinclair Routemaster!
― carson dial, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
NUMBER ONE PRIORITY OF THE NEXT LABOUR PARTY ELECTION MANIFESTO: Ban Oxford.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
emil.y, not sure what you mean, though I share your views.
Pashmina's graphic was quite convincing, and I agree with him too; I hope he realizes it's not 'London' that's wrong, it's just evil tossers and stupid bastards.
Mike, that's a good question ... but I can't see it happening. I wasn't good at rugby at school - you'll be surprised to hear. I don't think ACG has ever deigned to speak to me anyway. But he does deserve a comeuppance after this.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
I share the feelings of those who would like to protest, march Not In My Name etc. But I'm a bit confused - not all of you took this line during the campaign, did you? Or did you, and I'm mistaken, in which case apologies - I am not trying to cause offence, as ever. I am just genuinely a bit surprised at how the tone has apparently changed. I think this thread (like ilx generally, no doubt) has been characterized by a lot of cynicism and shrugging, and when disaster finally strikes, one can see that that won't do.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
I guess I could try and refine that comment - maybe it is only certain people who have set that tone; others have been clear for Ken all the way. Never mind. I don't know. ilx is not really my home now anyway, the way it has changed.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
I think I'm going to visit London and go all Christie Malry on your asses
pinefox: is this the bit you meant? it's a BS johnson reference (DK got it, at least), and it's about the only thing that's raised my spirits in this entire debacle :/
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lib Dems have taken Sheffield.
― William Bloody Swygart, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
also, wrt people's attitudes: look, i think the problem is that ILX is actually so fundamentally decent that it didn't think for one second that people would be fucking stupid enough to vote for tory councillors/boris for mayor!
or maybe not </perls gestalt approach ... that reminds me, i should be revising>
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
I guess enrique is happy this morning
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
i wonder how many of the london ilxors own a car (not me)
― DG, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tracer H: yes.
I haven't read the C Malry book, I'm afraid, but props to Emily for her bookish ways.
GF: well, I think people are fucking stupid enough to do anything. I was around in the 1980s, after all.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
Decent round-up of all the main UK political blogs here: http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2008/05/all-the-rumours.html
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
It would be nice to think ilx was fundamentally decent, but I fear those days are gone. That's not the phrase that springs to mind about it now.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:30 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
"How can Nixon have won? Nobody I knew voted for him."
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
i have never for one second believed pauline kael ever said that
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
Neither do I, but it's nice shorthand.
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
But the tories voted for the war too!
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
I just don't get it. People say they hate Blair/Brown/NuLab so they are going to vote for another version of it?
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
It would be nice to think ilx was fundamentally decent, but I fear those days are gone. That's not the phrase that springs to mind about it now
hence my "or maybe not" caveat :)
in seriousness: there's certainly a (an?) O_o-ism among people on this thread/my friends/hand-wringing liberals everywhere and of fucking course we should know better by now. still: as has been pointed out myriad times now, many of the "reasons for voting boris" are so fucking DICK-RIDDEN that, you know, i think we can be forgiven for the odd boggle of the mind.
― grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
General breakdown of probable Boris voting reasons:
a. not Ken b. i don't want to pay £25 a day to drive MY car. c. i don't want to pay fuck all for anything and gas the proles if you want your Olympic money. d. he's fit e. so-called asylum seekers ring Jon Gaunt now f. Evening Standard told me to vote for him g. he's a character he's funnEEEEE hyuk hyuk choke h. terrorists i. time for a change j. i voted for him as a joke SHOOT ME NOW
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
D) is stretching the limits of credibility a bit, unless there's a city of of Kate StClair's out there I hadn't noticed.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- William Bloody Swygart, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:29 (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
Clegg's home town. Now he gets to call last night a success for the LDs.
― caek, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:53 (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
The post that launched a thousand Dom Passantino/JW image searches.
― caek, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
Leeds stayed NOC, Lib Dems took a seat from the Tories (dunno which one, but I'm guessing it wasn't Hyde Park or Headingley)
― William Bloody Swygart, Friday, 2 May 2008 12:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
b. i don't want to pay £25 a day to drive MY car.
^^^this
― DG, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
I hope he realizes it's not 'London' that's wrong, it's just evil tossers and stupid bastards.
Yes! I realise this, of course.
True, but nevertheless, there are many fundamentally decent people here, still.
― Pashmina, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
I don't think you can be fundamentally decent if you clutter the board with Alsatia cant and colonialisms.
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
as an elaboration of b., the sitting mayor is certainly being punished for the powers the mayorship no longer actually has (that the GLC did sorta kinda have) in ref unitary transport policy -- viz eg control over which roads are bein dug up when... decided borough by borough, with little or no ability to get all the many competing utility corps to liaise (or even care about same)
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
But Boris won't actually abolish the congestion charge or the bendy buses, will he?
I will phase out bendy buses
...in about 25 years, when they were due to be taken out of service anyway.
The Congestion Charge must be reformed. Congestion has now risen above pre-Congestion Charge levels. Ken Livingstone's £25 levy will not improve congestion or emissions
'Reformed' does not equal 'abolish' or 'cut'.
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
right now people think he will, that's all that matters
― DG, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Boris is a twat, but to read some of this you'd think we'd just elected Mugabe. I think London will manage, as it always has.
― Dr.C, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
nothing in tory policy -- or economic philosophy* -- will impact on transport in a good way (at least not in a way that's good for what ken calls "ordinary working londoners"): i think there'll possibly be voter-sculpting high-end transport solutions for certain (richer) constituencies, which will make travel just worse for everyone else
(of course free-and-easy travel for all will begin to be massively moralised against by the posher type of greenie and eco-tory and and and)
*ie it wd need a return to "big local govt"
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's more the grim tidings of things to come, Dr C.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Just think: Where would we be if Jeffrey Arch hadn't been 'found out' until after the mayoral campaign, and won it? And THEN been found out...
― Mark G, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Boris can't phase out all bendy buses unless he is really going to send double decker 521 routemasters into the strand underpass.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
Note that Kate did NOT vote for Boris.
Nothing else to add for now (except that I do get the ph3ar when people mishear me talk about my favourite author - B.S. Johnson sounds uncomfortably like, AAGH, Boris Johnson).
― emil.y, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Funnily enough Boris' manifesto is as full of holes as some of BS's books
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 13:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah I was more referring to the fact that there can't be THAT many people out there who actively fancy Boris. Although given his reputation...
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
i wz gnna say earlier emil.y that i ph33l our asses have JUST BEEN (very extremely) CHRISTY MALRIED :(
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
Doc, it's partly policy, partly the fact of this person being indulged / given victory over KL / given the spotlight and status, and status of representing me / us, for the next 4 years (or who knows, 8, 12 years). No, things in a democracy like ours are not like things in a dictatorship. But what is happening is awful.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
In other words
A NATION MOURNS
... well, I wish it did - unfortunately a nation rejoices.
Man, this week must be a rollercoaster of emotion for Frank Lampard.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, Domino's introduced the new "Meatball Mayhem".
― Noodle Vague, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
bored with waiting now :(
― DG, Friday, 2 May 2008 13:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
Any pubs gonna be showing the result?
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hope it goes to penalties
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 14:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
But what is happening is awful
You need to use whatever tactics you used to survive the Christian Gross years, maybe.
― Dr.C, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
What, sit back in the knowledge Boris will be sacked in six weeks?
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Johnson Out
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 14:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh Ok then, not the Christian Gross strategy.
― Dr.C, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Labour gain Slough from NOC.
Across the country, Tory vote was up about 8% to 39% - short of the 'magical' 40% needed to win a General Election - with Labour on 29%.
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Whoa re the RA who have (had?) four seats in slough?
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:22 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 14:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Resident's association, specifically 'The independent britwellian residents'
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:26 (5 years ago) Permalink
So no hunger strikes and dirty protests for them then?
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 14:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
This is really hard to parse. WHOA, re: the RA... I'm assuming you meant 'who are' but I can't get around it.
― emil.y, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
At 1:10pm the word on the BBC website was that "22% of votes counted, Boris ahead in 10 regions, Ken ahead in 4." An hour later it's 9 vs 5.
So, at this rate, it's gonna take 'em 18 hours to count the votes (4:30am Saturday?) and, if Ken claws back one region an hour, he'll win by a landslide. Hope springs, etc.
― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- grimly fiendish, Friday, 2 May 2008 08:34
This is what happens when they're all the same
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
DJ laxalt
― Raw Patrick, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
*twiddles thumbs*
― DG, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
Facebook status updates update:
Chris B******* thinks Ken should do 'a Mugabe'. 13 minutes ago
Terry S******* will kidnap phil collins if boris gets in. 26 minutes ago
Andrew F****** would like to point out that most of the glum reports of the mayoral election pertain to first preferences, and suggest that 2nd prefs may yet see Ken through. 52 minutes ago
Matt D'**** would like to politely inform London that it can suck a big bag of dicks. 57 minutes ago
Haha.
― CharlieNo4, Friday, 2 May 2008 14:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
turnout at 45%, so even though this this has been the one and only london stroy for the past few months, over half the population still don't give a shit.
― ledge, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Current London running score: 27% total votes counted, Boris ahead in nine, Ken in five.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
sorry to be a dummy but how does the winner actually get decided, is it outright vote total or something else?
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Outright vote total including second preference votes of anyone but the lead two candidates if no one gets more than 50% of first preference votes.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
D*** G***** is going to make a voodoo doll of Boris Johnson and stab it repeately in the arse, face, chest and if there's any left arse again.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
It looks like it might be possible that Boris gets over 50%, negating all second preference votes.
― James Mitchell, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
still better than last time, which was only 37.5% turnout.
― CharlieNo4, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
It doesn't negate the second preference votes it just means that they cannot put anyone else over 50%
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Nah. If any candidate gets more than 50% first preference they become mayor.
― Venga, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
For Boris to get 50%+, what with Paddick, Berry et al getting a decent 15-18% between them, it would mean Ken is 15-20pts behind. Not even the YouGov polls suggested that.
― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 May 2008 15:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
That comment above re. counting time - I thought - this looks like Steady Mike. And it was.
I'm actually glad this is being drawn out. Make them wait! Why not? Delay BJ for a day: that's one better day of our lives.
There was something in a paper y