Mia Farrow's son -- Ronan Seamus Farrow -- really creeps me out!

xpost

Oh, does that have something to do with why you're creeped out?

But Woody Allen is completely estranged from him.

I was thinking Scarlett Johansson

Renaming your kids in the narrowest tune to your own lineage when they're what, like 8 years old, just after finding out their father (who had annointed them in his singular way) is screwing your adopted child...you're claiming she had motives other than to distance herself from him?

-child of mia farrow
-strangely well-spoken, mature beyond his years, knowledgeable of word events
-jerky

he's rosemary's baby!!!

http://www.msties.com/spotlite/mrb-b.jpg

Suggestions:

- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.

we're totally going to be the only result!!

he is a poet

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0501/30/NYHETER-30s14-woodyseamus-866.jpg

?

you ain't kidding, he is brando!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/img/ronan.jpg

WOW!
"Farrow first came to prominence as a child prodigy, when he began college at Simon's Rock College, in Massachusetts at the age of 11. Although Simon's Rock specializes in teaching "younger scholars" most of its incoming first-year students are age 16. After receiving his A.A. degree, Farrow transferred to Bard College, going on to become the college's youngest ever graduate at age 15. He double-majored in biology and philosophy.

At age 16, Farrow was accepted into law school at Yale University. He deferred his admission until the fall of 2006 to work as Special Assistant to former Assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke and for additional work with UNICEF."

he will destroy us all

Urgh, how depressing. He's achieved more than I have in my 33 years on this planet. Then again, my mother is GREBT. Mia is just so kookoo.

he's hott.

No way. I don't like blonde guys and in the above pic he looks like Ashton Kutcher. Marlon Brando? No effing way.

he's not that blond! brunette, or whatever the masculine equivalent is.

ashton kutcher is vaguely hott too.

I'm really confused as to why there were no Google hits for Ronan Seamus Farrow when this thread was started.

We're the seventh hit, actually.

-- jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:35 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

And now it's the fourth hit. I really don't understand how google works. And I've had several people try and explain it to me. very. slowly.

Lex, do you even know what blond is? A clue

Hah! Well, I posted a link to the above pic.

;_;

He is actually totally hott. How on earth did he end up that hott with Allen's genes?

I walked right past Mia & Woody in Little Italy, making their way into a restaurant right after Zelig came out. Despite being a lifelong fan of his, I locked eyes with her. Very blue orbs, they were.

This could explain a lot of things.

he's reached late-mia levels of crepey at such a young age. kid's gonna snap in a couple.

http://www.80smusiclyrics.com/images/numan.jpg

Gary Numan a bit?

I thought everyone wd be championing Mia for blasting Spielberg's working with the Chinese in prep for the Beijing Olympics!

her humorless overachieving blonde android child is such a clear a.i. homage tho

Which one in that pic is Mia Farrow?

Gary Numan

Humourless git. He has to be.

I bet he's lurking. hi Satchel!

GARY NUMAN

Lurking? That dude doesn't waste his time, every minute is devoted to developing his mind and contributing to humanity.

http://www.dvdrama.com/menus/village_damnes_60_11.jpg

Farrow first came to prominence as a child prodigy, when he began college at Simon's Rock College, in Massachusetts at the age of 11. Although Simon's Rock specializes in teaching "younger scholars" most of its incoming first-year students are age 16.

I spent a summer in a writing program at Simon's Rock when I was 16. It's definitely an interesting place but it was one of the best and more tranformative times of my life.

Also, that kid is incredibly handsome. Wow.

gaze into my eyes!
http://www.recreatingtampa.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ronanfarrow.jpg

i admit i think he's brutally hot now

really? i find him terrifying.

Don't be afraid. Just relax...

Ek, he's veering into weirdo surfer dude territory now. Did he brush his eyebrows? They look so brushed up or something. The picture might be photoshopped or he had some makeup splashed on, but I definitely still don't dig him.

He'd be prettier without Angelina Jolie's lips. There's something not quite right about it.

really? i find him terrifying.

Me too. Something very "murderous cult leader" about him.

I was thinking Patrick Bateman but give dude a break, seems wicked smart otherwise.

U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT DEFENDS APPOINTMENT OF FARROW'S SON

MIA FARROW and WOODY ALLEN's son has sparked a political controversy after the 21-year-old was appointed a liaison to non-governmental organisations (NGOs) working in Pakistan.
Ronan Farrow has followed in his actress mother's footsteps and become a human rights activist, but his appointment to the U.S. State Department has outraged humanitarian groups, whose members claim he is far too young to work on behalf of the war-torn country.
A former the child prodigy, Ronan has three years experience working as a Special Assistant to former United States Ambassador to the United Nations, Richard Holbrooke - but that's not enough to appease critics.
One activist against Farrow's appointment says, "You have seasoned, experienced NGO officials dealing with some very sensitive foreign policy and humanitarian aid issues, whose main contact in Holbrooke's office is a 21 year old whose experience has been travelling to southern Sudan with his mom."
However, State Department officials insist young Farrow is well-qualified.
A spokesperson says, "He's very qualified for the job, and has already helped explain the current situation (regarding) Pakistani procurements to key NGOs."

http://media.rtl.fr/online/image/2009/1025/5929344960_Ronan-Farrow.jpg

still hot imo

Looks like a 'V' alien.

Cary Elwes

like a ten year old daniel craig, maybe

dude just stared at holbrook and said "as you wish" until he got the job

i was readin about this lil shartlord a month or two ago after watching rosemary's baby, i wish him ill tbqh

if you draw his attention he will devour you imho

Cary Elwes was the most beautiful man alive during the Princess Bride era, this guy is nowhere near as attractive -- there is something strangely Chris Kattan-ish about his face.

oh no there isn't

creepy or dreamy?
http://i46.tinypic.com/90y2hj.png

serial killer

creamy

he is astoundingly good looking. asshole.

wow beautiful

those lips are ridiculous

even my eyes have boner.

The State Department defended Farrow, calling him "very qualified for the job" and noted that he had "already helped explain the current situation re: Pakistani procurements to key NGOs." Another State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, referred to Farrow as "a friggin' genius," adding that "he’s young but he has a depth of experience that many people twice his age lack."
http://www.whorunsgov.com/Profiles/Ronan_Farrow

http://www.deadlantern.com/reviews/2008/10/omen3.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pErKUH8fl94

heh, thats my brothers graduation

or it would have been if hed had his shit together

i almost went to simons rock then i realize hey im doing this because i hate school but is also a school

i almost went to simons rock then i realize hey im doing this because i hate school but this is also a school

In addition to his many distinctions, Farrow was the youngest student ever admitted to Simon’s Rock, at 11 years of age. At 15 he became the youngest graduate of Bard College, and was 16 when he was admitted to Yale Law School. At the time of his appointment at the State Department he was 21, the youngest political appointee on record.

yow

but does he know how to love?

Allen's biological son with Farrow, Ronan Farrow (birth name Satchel) -- who is now a 23-year-old journalist/government official --said of the relationship according to Life magazine, "He's my father married to my sister. That makes me his son and his brother-in-law. That is such a moral transgression."

"I cannot see him. I cannot have a relationship with my father and be morally consistent," he added, "I lived with all these adopted children, so they are my family. To say Soon-Yi was not my sister is an insult to all adopted children."

ouch

lmao from the same article

"We're aware that our vast age difference is extremely controversial. But we're very much in love and want to get the message out there that true love can be ageless," that couple said in a statement.

When asked by Reuters if he was "too much for the Middle American mentality," Allen said: "Yes, we are a very religious country, but to me that is their problem. I don't subscribe to it. I am not religious or prudish. In that way I am slightly more European, but you will find that a certain amount of that more in New York, I think, rather than the rest of the country."

http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/Woody-Allen-on-marriage-to-Soon-Yi:--What-was-the-scandal-/8209443

kid sounds like a trip

"moral consistency" pssh glwt

he's slightly less european

aka dads a creepe

i didn't know this kid existed when i saw mighty aphrodite, kinda makes that movie a little weirder huh

Satanism would probably have been the better of the two pregnancy outcomes.

i almost went to simons rock then i realize hey im doing this because i hate school but is also a school

― ice cr?m, Sunday, June 26, 2011 10:52 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark

I spent a summer there. It's s strange place but that was a pretty great summer tbh.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton just named him as her Special Adviser for Global Youth Issues whatever that means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7fK9tM993Q

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=105&q=235

In original pic he looks like:

http://blogs.whatsontv.co.uk/movietalk/wp-content/gallery/chilling-children/village-of-the-damned-1.jpg

i was readin about this lil shartlord a month or two ago after watching rosemary's baby, i wish him ill tbqh

― candice spergin (cankles), Sunday, November 1, 2009 6:55 PM

lol

"I cannot see him. I cannot have a relationship with my father and be morally consistent," he added, "I lived with all these adopted children, so they are my family. To say Soon-Yi was not my sister is an insult to all adopted children."

is this dude a robot?

must be morally consistent. incest does not compute.

also he is totally dreamy afaict.

are you guys for real raising eyebrows at a dude's misgivings about his dad, who is in a relationship with a woman raised as his sister

Yeah, can see where he's coming from, TBH.

its more the strange emotionally detached language/logic hes using thats putting people off if i had to guess

icey can just speak for me from now on.

not having anything to do with his creep father: totally justified.

couching his rationale about it like an ile post: weird.

"I cannot see him."

woody is prob like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMuWLDC8FD4

To say Soon-Yi was not my sister is an insult to all adopted children."

tbf, their entire family is weird (living in separate houses, adopting boatloads of different kids from around the world with massive age differences, etc). what Woody did is pretty strange and I can see how the kid would be pissed about it but just because Soony-Yi was his "sister" in one respect does not really mean that Woody was her "father" in any real way. hewing strictly to legal designations seems kind of crazy in its own way, they don't accurately describe the situation.

what IS a real dick move is that Woody basically chose a woman over his biological children.

bio-bros before adopted hoes

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=248898051796578&ref=nf

http://twitter.com/#!/RonanFarrow

He's not creepy.

Perhaps no one knows more about engaging the youth of today than Ronan Farrow. He was a child prodigy, who has grown up to be a humanitarian and activist, among other things.

what other things??

http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/english/2011/08/engaging-the-youth-of-today-to-run-the-world-of-tomorrow/

lol its always the least young young people chosen by the not young to relate to the young

bio-bros before adopted hoes

― omar little, Thursday, 30 June 2011 21:08 (1 month ago) Bookmark

omg amazing

lol its always the least young young people chosen by the not young to relate to the young

haha otm i read a bit of that press release & was lol'n @ how no1 but a 'child prodigy' could know more about engaging young ppl

RonanFarrow 6 days 12 hours ago Twitter
With @jonlovett and @TheMandyMoore discussing #WhyForeignAid is critical. Thanks for everyone who joined - great crowd.
yfrog.com/nxiyimyj

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6115/6212209844_8caf8c595b_o.jpg

ahhh he looks like a twilight vampire

I like TheMandyMoore's pants.

i like themandymoore she looks like shes got some srs stuff to say, sure that pannel was v illuminating

#WhyTheMandyMoorePants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDTxte91t3c

a chance to interact! so exciting

"we're going to take your questions, and -- uh -- i can't wait to hear them."

my question is: is mandy moore as hot in person as she looks in that picture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKAyHMbyFzI

host looks like he's worried ronan will scan him

happy thoughts about global youth initiative happy thoughts about global youth initiative happy thoughts about global youth initiative

i think he peaked a few year ago. also i don't like the cut of his shirt. not as bad as interviewer's plaid blazer though.

p.s. themandymoore, seen above, is indeed hott.

http://www.worldcrunch.com/catching-ronan-farrow-woody-and-mias-world-traveling-wunderkind/5170

I cannot have a relationship with him and have moral cohesion.

http://lowtechlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/irobot_1280.jpg

He's based in Washington, where his staff includes six interns, all older than he is.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/05/15/DD6N1OHRE6.DTL

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5rr9qpKy81qb3920o1_500.png

haha

Is that real?! Ha!

haha that's great

Love the Mia Farrow RT

get over it, he's been with the lady for 20 years now.

although yeah LOL

genuine lol

altho I've always thought it odd how people insist/insisted on judging a distinctly unconventional family (numerous adopted progeny from all over the world, of widely differing ages, with unmarried parents who lived apart) by conventional standards ("HE FUCKED HIS DAUGHTER!" er well not really)

Yeah, I mean I sort of agree but it was still funny.

TR - I saw what you meant later. Mia Farrow wrote BOOM RT. lol.

i find it weird that a woman who was in rosemary's baby and was married to frank sinatra is tweeting "BOOM." but then again that's probably the kind of thing sinatra would be tweeting if he tweeted.

"Nabisco OTM. BOOM" - a Frank Sinatra post during his brief spell on ilx

Allen didn't fuck his daughter and he's no Roman Polanski (who Mia Farrow is apparently still an ardent defender of!!!) but it's still creepy and weird the way that happened.

it's weird all around. Farrow is pretty fucking weird too.

she actually tweeted "Boom" which is even funnier

what are her favorite gifs I wonder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufb6T-av-rU

a lot of people made passive-aggressive tweets on father's day, why shouldn't ronan farrow

a lot of people made passive-aggressive tweets on father's day, why shouldn't ronan farrow

new ILE motto?

never clicked on this thread b4, didn't realize this kid is SATCHEL.

oh shit -- neither did I

ie, lock thread and start posting about the great American he was named after:

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/satchel-paige-hof.jpg

money quote:

"Avoid fried meats which angry up the blood.
If your stomach disputes you, lie down and pacify it with cool thoughts.
Keep the juices flowing by jangling around gently as you move.
Go very light on the vices, such as carrying on in society— the social ramble ain't restful.
Avoid running at all times.
And don't look back— something might be gaining on you."

http://hollywoodlife.com/2012/12/19/ronan-farrow-selena-gomez-new-man-friend/

http://earsucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/selena-gomez-ronan-farrow.jpg
]

hes a faygelah iirc

http://i.imgur.com/7U2Wl.jpg

Oh shit, he's turning into Julian Assange.

tev
Posted at 10:28 PM on December 19, 2012

The thing they are leaving out of this story is that Ronan Farrow is openly gay and has been in a relationship with Jon Lovett (the former Obama speechwriter who created the new sitcom 1600 Penn) for two years. Guess it ruins the story of “Selena’s new guy to make Justin jealous!” if they mention the new guy is gay, and she gave him a kiss on the cheek at his birthday party.

Fat Patricia
Posted at 2:17 PM on December 20, 2012

He’s not gay, I checked like 50 different websites.

i'm p sure a (male) friend of a friend went on at least one date with him

ronan farrow, man of oats.

I'm pretty sure he's the Anti-Christ, regardless of his sexual orientation

Jerry6/5/2012
Ronan Farrow was even told by media that he could be the youngest president ever. Ronan Farrow sounds alot like Roman Pharaoh to me! Most say the antichrist will come out of Europe but think about America. From America came: RFID chips(barcode 666 is their name -look it up), the new world order(relates to Bible of Antichrist controlling everything), abortion, strongest military, television, phones, and etc. Ronan Farrow seems like a likely antichrist.. He's stunning and new and I can see him popping up after Isaiah 17 and talking about PEACE. Since he is the main advocate at 24. Look him up Christians.

Jerry6/5/2012
Yes. I think I might know but keep it a secret. It is Ronan Farrow. He works under Hillary Clinton with the NATO and foreign affairs. His mothers name is Mia Farrow. Mia is short for Mary(as in Mary in the Bible). Ronan is one of the youngest prodigies that has been in training and allowed access to government files. His father is Woody Allen. But his real last name is Konisburg if you look it up. He was born Yiddish, German, and Jewish. He graduated from a jewish boarding school. When Ronan was 15 he graduated from college. He is involved in youth affairs and an aspiring journalist that is involved in global peace affairs. I am the first one to mention Ronan as being the antichrist because I have looked up Ronan Farrow on search (internet) and no one mentions him. I'm not sure if he is him but from watching Left Behind and reading my Bible I found this: The antichrist will- Be for peace(Ronan is one of the youngest in peace corp as a leader), handsome(ronan is) etc. Hope that helped.

Jerry6/5/2012
Read Left Behind the famous book series

His mothers name is Mia Farrow.

http://jannikeviveka.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/flickr-100825-09.jpg?w=720

abortion, strongest military, television, phones, and etc.

I'm still amazed that there are any articles, conspiracy-or-not, that don't mention his parentage! All his accomplishments and the fact he's the antichrist really should be the main things cited, but it makes me feel old that no one finds his parents significant anymore.

I mean, supposed parentage. He looks a lot more like Satan than Woody Allen, iirc

man i'm disappointed i never considered the omega code possibilities for ronan

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCCtEtaCAAAoqli.jpg

I am the first one to mention Ronan as being the antichrist because I have looked up Ronan Farrow on search (internet) and no one mentions him

Still loves his dad I see

http://25.media.tumblr.com/448aeaeb6fd3e0ec8ad9da74a340f1d5/tumblr_miregk1I4U1qgpvbxo1_1280.jpg

kid. at least you dont look like him, be thankful for the little things

http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/screen-shot-2013-10-02-at-10-39-31-am.png?w=558&h=303

lol at my last post

anyway this guy is pretty funny

Yeah, that tweet is great.

Why would he pick Ang Lee, how weird.

Big Hulk stan iirc

so, there's viral suspicion that Frank fathered him? If Mia was hittin' that old beast 20 years after thrir marriage, when he was 72, she's even nuttier than I suspected.

mia farrow's eclectic husbandry blows my mind. like i can't think of a crazier additional element to frank sinatra & woody allen than dory fucking previn.

ok I missed this

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2013/10/mia-farrows-son-ronan-may-have-been-fathered-by-frank-sinatra-not-woody-allen/

and don't really give a shit, except in different combinations those three deserved each other.

and thx schlump

(Woody was the one she didn't marry; and you mean ANDRE Previn)

Unless their was some Mia-Dory lezzing up we didn't know about--"Beware of Young Girls" indeed!

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2013/10/mia-farrow-children-family-scandal

dory fucking previn

lolololol

Farrow’s second husband, André Previn, tells Orth of his adopted daughter Soon-Yi, who is now married to Allen, “She does not exist.”

That's good parenting right there.

also demonstratably untrue

How dare she marry her other dad

http://www.retroland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/my_two_dads_650x300_a01_111.jpg

“Ronan has established himself as a provocative, independent journalist capable of challenging people’s assumptions and empowering audiences,” said Phil Griffin, president of MSNBC. “His show will be a game changer for MSNBC, representing a fresh approach to how we deliver news. Ronan has packed more experience into his 25 years of life than most people have in a lifetime.”

no one will watch you no matter what you do msnbc

how many years before ronan farrow and tavi gevinson meet and give birth to zuul

Sinatra makes sense. Now that all the websites and gossip mags are putting the faces side by side, I no longer see Rosemary Woodhouse but some Sinatra in there.

he def looks way more like sinatra than woody allen

"We needed to groom another Hillary shill, preferably a celebrity," said Phil Griffin, president of MSNBC.

ice cold

Ronan Farrow ‏@RonanFarrow 11h

It was Sinead O'Connor's open letter to John Boehner that finally clinched it.

u real funny son

So the 1992 VF article really stuck in my craw (in a why hasn't this been a bigger deal way) so I had to pony up for the latest issue to read the sequel by the same writer. I dunno man, IMO woody did what he is accused of, and in consequence I cannot fucking tolerate him.

also his recent movies are so irritating

the latter more damning than the muckraking imho

nothing gets to the bottom of what really happened like a VF article amirite who needs cops and judges and lawyers and shit

Not really, but the thing has been more or less buried so there isn't much else to go on.

woody did what he is accused of

of what is he accused? something beyond the soon-yi stuff? have to say i've ignored all this beyond the absolute basics.

I do think it's possible that the quality of WH's work during his very long golden period made it completely unthinkable for ppl to even entertain the possibility that he cld do that.

goole, google up the 1992 article, yeah something beyond the soon yi stuff but I don't wanna mess it up in clumsy summary

plz summarize

man now woody harrelson is caught up in this?? fuck, i don't know anything

sexually molested much younger biological daughter is the gist of it iirc

shit

argh lol WH

sry

adopted daughter, but yeah xpost

she talks abt it in the new article

sorry I can't keep all their kids straight there's like 30 of them

xp

I guess she changed her name. Dylan, formerly

Woody Allen is proof that even a legendary fucked up pervert who should be in jail can become a boring old dude with no interesting ideas.

you make him sound like the Marquis De Sade

De Sade still wrote well in his later years.

I like de Sade's early, funny stuff

gay, they say

http://www.newnownext.com/msnbc-host-ronan-farrow-is-allegedly-gay-also-allegedly-frank-sinatras-son/11/2013/

well, Frank woulda been thrilled

so MSNBC has one of each now

oh u guys figured this out last winter, nev mind

i never get any credit for outing nate silver

when? I heard about that for years.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bd1U84CCEAA97o0.png

for posterity

ONE OF THE COLDEST MOTHERFUCKERS ON EARTH IMO

yeah that is some gangster ass dad hatred

he gives me so much to aspire to as a dadhater, holy shit, all ive done is not talk to my dad for 3 years and tell family members he's a creep, i need to step my tweet game up

it seems kind of unbecoming to post those tweets (esp. since he's holding up the experiences of siblings who, it seems from the vanity fair article anyway, aren't as ready as him to talk about it) but you know, it's not my family.

man it would be something if the culture all of a sudden had a get right with god moment on woody the way it did with kells.

Not as many celebrities clamoring to be on R. Kelly records as there are trying to get a role in a Woody Allen film.

What allegation is Ronan referring to here?

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2013/10/mia-farrow-children-family-scandal

this fucken guy

11/10 on the iceburn scale, love it

good work ronan farrow. it's quite brave of him tbh.

man it would be something if the culture all of a sudden had a get right with god moment on woody the way it did with kells.

― goole, Monday, January 13, 2014 6:36 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seriously!

Farrow’s son Fletcher Previn, who built his first computer at the age of 13, tells Orth that he has Photoshopped Allen out of every single family photo and edited him out of family videos so that none of them would ever have to see him again. 

It's easier for us to ignore Allen if we all just realized the man has made fucking terrible movies for years; he's got no "Do What U Want"s or "Love Letters"s to remind us he was once tolerable.

Blue Jasmine wasn't completely terrible, though most of the credit for that goes to Cate Blanchett.

It's mostly terrible because of Cate Blanchit

i like how Farrow can never get in therapy for this, because the whole laying on the couch and whining setting will only remind him of a Woody Allen movie

Alfred. Wrong on movies, wrong on life.

it's the Mao Tse Tung Hour

i like how Farrow can never get in therapy for this, because the whole laying on the couch and whining setting will only remind him of a Woody Allen movie

― Ludo, Monday, January 13, 2014 8:38 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LOL

twitter therapy I guess...

Sarah Polley and Her Merry Band of Bolsheviks, I want ideas from you people!

Neither of you have run out of bullshit.

I have no idea who's more disturbed, Mia or Woody, but both seem to have impeccable credentials. And y'know, one wrote and directed several great film comedies.

The Woody story I tot believe is that in the middle of the Soon Yi revelations and accusations in '92, Mia asked him, "When do we start on the next film?"

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/10/mia-farrow-s-brother-john-charles-villers-farrow-sentenced-to-10-years-96039.html

unfortunate family.

And y'know, one wrote and directed several great film comedies.

Back when dating a Soon Yi-aged woman wasn't breaking the half-plus-seven rule.

man it would be something if the culture all of a sudden had a get right with god moment on woody the way it did with kells.

― goole, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:36 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark

agree
imagine the handwringing!

Woody's spent 45 years doing it on film

i just assume all my favorite artists are married to their daughters

mia farrow ‏@MiaFarrow 36m
A woman has publicly detailed Woody Allen's molestation of her at age 7. GoldenGlobe tribute showed contempt for her & all abuse survivors

i re-watched deconstructing harry four or five nights ago when i couldn't sleep. it's crazy to think that the real woody allen is an even worse person with an even more disastrous life than harry block. i guess i hadn't thought of the soon-yi thing for a while until today.

woody claims to not be like his on screen persona

even before I knew the allegations, something about the niece scenes in Crimes and Misdemeanors -- otherwise one of my favorite films btw -- struck me as *off*.

wait until you see the dvd extras on Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex

Isaac Davis (Woody Allen) is introduced as a man writing a book about his love for New York City. He is a twice-divorced, 42-year-old television comedy writer dealing with the women in his life who quits his unfulfilling job. He is dating Tracy (Mariel Hemingway), a 17-year-old girl attending the Dalton School.

no one couldve seen this coming

even before I knew the allegations, something about the niece scenes in Crimes and Misdemeanors -- otherwise one of my favorite films btw -- struck me as *off*.

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, January 13, 2014 11:28 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. There's something kind of fucked up about writing/casting a niece character whose sole trait is that she hangs on his every word.

In other words, it breaks, and it's not funny.

really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases

Bogart and Bacall started their romance when he was 45 and she was 19. Big whoop.

Hurting, do u have child-molestation goods on Woody Allen?

the soon yi thing doesn't bother me at all - the dylan thing on the other hand is troubling but i still watch polanski films so obv not too troubling

I'd bet many of you have not read about Charles Chaplin's love life, either.

Of course not – there's a Robert Downey, Jr. movie, pops.

i j/o to tales of charlie chaplains love life of my own composition

charlie goes down on so many pokemans

its filthy

Salinger out-creeps them all.

Chaplin's The Gold Bush.

you can appreciate a person's work, or aspects of it, while acknowledging they're horrible humans. honoring the person, rather than the work, while they're present implies more approval of the person than I think some people are comfortable with.

btw I really like yr writing, Morbs

morbs taking the classic apologist tact fwiw arguing the least objectionable aspect and ignoring the rest

The Great Dick-Tater

Chaplin's Titty Lights

Monsieur Verdouxing-the-doux

uh bcz "the rest" is afaik dependent solely on believing Mia and Ronan's accusations. They may be true, they may not be. xxxp

Mia, Ronan and the woman who says she was abused, you mean.

uh and no youre pretending the problem w his his marriage is all about age while leaving out the tiny detail that his wife is his daughter

his wife is not his daughter tho

uh yeah

mordy adoption isn't fucking match.com iirc

did he officially adopt her?

"To think that Woody was in any way a father or stepfather to me is laughable. My parents are Andre Previn and Mia, but obviously they're not even my real parents," Previn said at the time. "I came to America when I was seven. I was never remotely close to Woody. He was someone who was devoted exclusively to his own children and to his work, and we never spent a moment together."

Previn also said the two began seeing each other around the time she was 20-years-old. She told Time magazine "By that time his relationship with Mia was long done, and they were going through the motions." She added, "They were friendly but rarely went out, and apart from when they worked together or played with their children, had little to do with one another."

don't know anything about such testimony, but ok. Nothing's been proven. xxxxp

she's not his daughter, adopted or otherwise.

bye thread til we get the Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry obits.

really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases really don't feel equipped to say how bad a person is in most cases

phil got stuck again - someone should reset him

uh bcz "the rest" is afaik dependent solely on believing Mia and Ronan's accusations. They may be true, they may not be. xxxp

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, January 13, 2014 10:47 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes and no. it's definitely cloudy, but as cloudy as you might think. you should read the vanity fair article before you keep talking about this. the same goes for everybody.

Morbz otm throughout here

i generally dont really care if artists are horrible monsters im just in it for the art but to say that woody allen doesnt pretty obvs have some issues around sexualizing children is just pretty willfully oblivious of both woody allen and the world

not as cloudy

i meant to write

could woody sue mia and ronan for libel...? they are stating as fact horrible things that haven't been proven in court. i imagine hashing this out in court again is the last thing he wants to do, and mia/ronan know it.

heaven forbid we believe the account of someone who said they were abused or like take it into account when looking for patterns of behavior

there isn't a pattern of behavior tho, right? i'm not dismissing the dylan accusations at all btw, but i don't think soon-yi situation is comparable at all. there's a wide gap between molesting a seven year old and marrying a twenty year old. even if the twenty year old was his daughter (which she isn't)

^^^^^^

lag∞n,if you are defining "children" as pre-adolescents I don't see it

also, youre a fucking troll

7 old enough for morbs apparently

mayring a 20 y/o whos been in yr family since she was seven you dont think thats suspect, and fwiw iirc woody and soon yi are the only ones in the family saying they didnt know each other when she was a kid

lag∞n,if you are defining "children" as pre-adolescents I don't see it

also, youre a fucking troll

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:01 PM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

your behavior itt is seriously unconscionable youre a fucking misogynistic piece of shit fuck off

mayring a 20 y/o whos been in yr family since she was seven you dont think thats suspect

yes

soon-yi pretty much textbook grooming

in yr family

conventional definition of "family" does not really apply to Mia and co., is the problem. it is definitely a weird thing that Woody did, and suspect, but Mordy is correct that it's a v different thing from pedophilia.

she wasn't his daughter, she's just the daughter of the woman he'd been dating since soon-yi was about 9, a woman with whom he adopted children with

soon-yi thinking it's not creepy doesn't make it not creepy fwiw

Mia and her brood of ill-named children def creeps me out. Running a pre-adolescent commune on the Upper East Side.

conventional definition of "family" does not really apply to Mia and co., is the problem. it is definitely a weird thing that Woody did, and suspect, but Mordy is correct that it's a v different thing from pedophilia.

― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:05 PM (15 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you have absolutely no idea what youre talking about

soon-yi pretty much textbook grooming

― balls, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:03 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that farrow's children say they saw woody as a father figure, and woody swears he didn't see himself as their father figure, it's quite possible both are telling the truth

"i swear, all along it was just a long-gestating groom sesh. no parenthood involved."

its quite possible woody is a sexul predator saying conveint things

woody allen and future bride:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ccpyky31b20jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

strangers at a game

"i was just the guy who dated their mom for a decade, brought new kids into the clan, and then took one kid out. I wasn't, like, a dad."

You can't deny his movies have been basically shit ever since he gave into the dark side.

i'm not sure which if any of the above posts and responding to me but i should just say that I have absolutely no idea who to believe in this situation. IIRC the child who was alleged to have been sexually abused by woody said some things to some people and other things to other people, or to the same people the 2nd or 3rd times. children can be tough witnesses--they are very subject to suggestion either way. and they are often severely uncomfortable in the formal setting of a deposition or courtroom, which could also effect testimony either way. reading the vanity fair article i got the distinct sense that woody was, at least, a creep but it was hard to know what else to believe.

sorry if this isn't sufficiently decisive or whatever.

Mia and her brood of ill-named children def creeps me out. Running a pre-adolescent commune on the Upper East Side.

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 13, 2014 11:06 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i would have thought this too but given how none of the her kids seems to be strongly poorly adjusted and all, at least per vanity fair article, are fiercely loyal to her and their adopted siblings even into adulthood, I revised that feeling.

i dunno this seems a case where jumping to conclusions based on things being "weird" is not going to help you, since everyone involved is very unusual.

You can't deny his movies have been basically shit ever since he gave into the dark side.

manhattan?

i admit it's hard for me to imagine living with mia amongst a bunch of young kids and not feeling, if not exactly like "their father," then at least like a "father figure." i mean, what else would you be?

lag∞n,if you are defining "children" as pre-adolescents I don't see it

also, youre a fucking troll

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:01 PM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

your behavior itt is seriously unconscionable youre a fucking misogynistic piece of shit fuck off

― lag∞n, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:02 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw sry morbs i dont think youre a piece of shit, you are a misogynist tho

all the curious spin-zone qualities of the farrow clan aside, there's enough in woody allen's life, from making jokes about his teenage first wife's rape on, that celebrations of his work should probably not climax with diane keaton singing the Girl Scouts theme.

Yeah it's possible that Farrow pressured Dylan to make up or exaggerate something, sure, she's kind of fucked up and crazy, w/e, who knows. But once someone comes out and makes a weighty allegation like that, it's pretty hard for me to just be like "Eh, it's just unproven allegations, shrug." I mean just the difficulty of coming out with a story like that makes it something I have to take seriously. And btw Soon-Yi and the frequency of uncomfortable old man/young woman relationships in his films, I can't really shake off the feeling that there's a strong chance it's true.

is that what happened on the golden globes? i didn't watch them. if so, yikes.

xpost

there is a strong easily observable pattern here

that looks shockingly like what we know about the patterns of sexual preditors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNwPY1rJ_bU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mON8atk0_t4

there is a strong easily observable pattern here

― lag∞n, Monday, January 13, 2014 11:16 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this isn't one of those snarky questions, i promise, but can you lay this out--what you think to be the pattern--clearly here?

i think we should separate the films from the personal behavior btw.

dude dated teenagers in the '50s, '70s and '90s

the films are corroborating evidence too, obvs you wouldnt make a case just on that but they def have something to say about how he sees the world

I think in particular it's the fact that the FILMS (not just the Woody Allen characters) are oblivious to the creepyness of the relationships, e.g. Manhattan

Woody's like the Bret Saberhagen of creeping - odd numbered decades, watch out for your young women

when i first saw manhattan (not too long ago) i was amazed at how the relationship his character had w/the 17 yr old was kind of framed as "yeah she's younger than me, nbd, 17 years old w/e." not "surprised" i guess.

Like you watch Manhattan and the film itself tries to portray the Muriel Hemingway relationship as sweet, and of course Muriel Hemingway's character is so mature and in control for her age, don't you see?

I assume ppl who are reading the 2013 vanity fair article are also reading the older vanity fair article from the early 90s, if not pls do so

if the recent revelations about british media personalities from the 60s and 70s are anything to go by the truth of these situations is usually worse than you think, rather than better

but ... his character is pretty clearly aware of the creepyness of the relationship in Manhattan, he refers to their age difference as an issue all the time

their age difference isnt an issue as much as the absolute age of the high school girl hes dating, he treats it like shes 22 or something

I assume ppl who are reading the 2013 vanity fair article are also reading the older vanity fair article from the early 90s, if not pls do so

― yes, i have seen the documentary (Jon Lewis), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:26 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just googled this, could not make it through more than a couple paragraphs

I've never said WA isn't creepy. That's not illegal.

A shame to see a troll convict a fellow Obama loyalist on hearsay.

Alvy Singer: Lyndon Johnson is a politician, you know the ethics those guys have. It's like a notch underneath child molester.

she should be dating guys with names like Biff and Scooter iirc

xp

A shame to see a troll convict a fellow Obama loyalist on hearsay.

lol you don't know what hearsay means

lol morbs is one of those guys who think people are infringing on his 1st amendment rights when they tell him to stfu

morbs just now

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18mlr43adfwhcjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

im sorry i dont apply legal standards to my personal opinions like morbs does, then again i have no subpoena powers

that '92 vanity fair story: http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1992/11/farrow199211

Like you watch Manhattan and the film itself tries to portray the Muriel Hemingway relationship as sweet, and of course Muriel Hemingway's character is so mature and in control for her age, don't you see?

presents her as a fount of wisdom, complete with kicker, as if to say, "Yeah she's 17 but hey nbd she's smart!"

Really gross if your initial reaction when someone claims to have been raped/abused/molested/etc. is skepticism.

with the "little bastard" bit in that '92 vf piece, i wonder how much woody knew about mia and frank "never breaking up"

Really gross if your initial reaction when someone claims to have been raped/abused/molested/etc. is skepticism.

― Murgatroid, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:35 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

alfred exactly

i believe that if every time Woody had an inappropriate interaction with a minor, the authorities had been notified and he was testified against, that he'd have gone to jail a long time ago and would not be able to make successful films with famous movie stars today and probably not be getting any lifetime achievement awards. but that didn't happen, and while i'm skeeved out by what he likely got away with, i dunno, it doesn't outrage me that much, to be honest. lots of terrible people will never pay for their worst actions. i don't think appreciating someone's art should have a morals clause, although obviously everyone has a line they draw somewhere. the debates about Woody or R. Kelly or whoever seem to come down to people telling others where they should draw their own lines, and it seems to have as much to do with how they felt about the art to begin with as what their moral compass says.

when i first saw manhattan (not too long ago) i was amazed at how the relationship his character had w/the 17 yr old was kind of framed as "yeah she's younger than me, nbd, 17 years old w/e." not "surprised" i guess.

― christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:25 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

every time i watch Manhattan i get more creeped out by it, the way her character dotes on him and hangs on his every word, all the signifiers of innocence & childhood around her, her sexual voraciousness, its sort of amazing that allen apparently wasnt self-conscious at all about putting this fantasy onscreen

Really gross if your initial reaction when someone claims to have been raped/abused/molested/etc. is skepticism.

― Murgatroid, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:35 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah like you dont have to take it as gods truth but just throwing it in the garbage like unsubstantiated bears a striking resemblance to the cultural systems of power that protect abusers everywhere

Tracy: Let's fool around. Let's do it some strange way that you've always wanted to, but nobody would do with you.

very shall we say "interesting"

i don't think appreciating someone's art should have a morals clause, although obviously everyone has a line they draw somewhere. the debates about Woody or R. Kelly or whoever seem to come down to people telling others where they should draw their own lines, and it seems to have as much to do with how they felt about the art to begin with as what their moral compass says.

― some dude, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:38 PM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i basically agree with this tho i think in a lot of cases its not so much a the moral line drawing observed in the blogosphere but a more visceral revulsion toward the person that makes appreciating their art impossible

fwiw i cant think of an artist where i was just like no more but i can totally understand why someone would

some dude, did you read these vf articles or see the golden globes? you can think woody's a terrific director, a veritable role model in his prolific independent work, and still think its gross to have diane keaton express her gratitude for his friendship and support of women on an awards show on a major network through an a capella rendition of a girl scouts song. the problem with the whole "you have to separate the art from the artist" thing is that its only said to defend ignoring ugly shit - no one's telling diane to separate the art from the artist.

every time i watch Manhattan i get more creeped out by it, the way her character dotes on him and hangs on his every word, all the signifiers of innocence & childhood around her, her sexual voraciousness, its sort of amazing that allen apparently wasnt self-conscious at all about putting this fantasy onscreen

― Hungry4Ass,

this is also a movie in which a male party dude says he's going to direct a film from his own script about a guy who screws so great that when he brings a woman to orgasm, she's so fulfilled that she dies, right?

xposts galore

lagoon, remind me of status of those claims (again, I don't mean that as snark, I mean it exactly how it's written). it's been a while since i read the article. my understanding was that the child involved made different statements at different times. and IIRC in that article her statements were all mediated by mia and other of her children. that doesn't make me "skeptical" so much as, "i don't have enough information to have a very stable idea what is going on here." surely testifying about your abuse is an imponderably difficult thing, and the last thing any of us should take lightly. however the rights of the accused, and the fact of false accusations, are also a reality.

separately:

i just feel like the connection between the films and whatever patterns we imagine ourselves seeing in his private life is kind of tenuous and complex.

i mean the relationships in his films are may/december type things and he's hardly the only own to portray them (see also a ton of french auteur cinema, also a ton of melodramas from before the 30s). you could argue that these are sublimated, social-acceptable avatars for his real desires for very young girls but then you'd be entering into a real feedback loop where all the art and the little bits of "reality" we glean from these articles/other coverage just become kind of overdetermined.

I'm kind of at a point where I'm glad I saw certain Woody Allen films and at the same time would be perfectly happy never to watch one again. I can separate his work from his life to an extent, but there's even a certain life approach within the films that I don't really want to inhabit anymore, even aside from the "creepy" stuff. Manhattan is a film I really never want to watch again though.

"false accusations" invoked, MRA seal opened

some dude, did you read these vf articles or see the golden globes? you can think woody's a terrific director, a veritable role model in his prolific independent work, and still think its gross to have diane keaton express her gratitude for his friendship and support of women on an awards show on a major network through an a capella rendition of a girl scouts song. the problem with the whole "you have to separate the art from the artist" thing is that its only said to defend ignoring ugly shit - no one's telling diane to separate the art from the artist.

― da croupier, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:43 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i read and understood the articles better than you read and understood my post, i think!

a film from his own script about a guy who screws so great that when he brings a woman to orgasm, she's so fulfilled that she dies, right?

r u srs?

I've disliked Woody Allen movies since I started trying to watch them in like 1998 so I didn't know that was the premise, but EW. EW. I NEED A BIGGER FONT OF EW.

amateurist sry i dont have a allen molestation database i was just going from memory, but all the info is out there waiting for you

this is also a movie in which a male party dude says he's going to direct a film from his own script about a guy who screws so great that when he brings a woman to orgasm, she's so fulfilled that she dies, right?

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:44 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah tho i always assumed (mb wrongly) that the movie was making fun of that guy

???

i'm just saying that we don't and can't live in a world where any sort of testimony is prima facie evidence of a crime. i'm not saying that's what's going on here, cos i have no idea what's going on here. but we also live in a world where shit like this happens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria

the rights of the accused, and the fact of false accusations

the "rights of the accused" play out in court, not in an internet discussion. And "false accusation" child molestation stories, aside from the occasional weird "repressed memory"/hypnotherapy hoaxes, idk, you just don't hear about them very often. "Inconsistencies" wouldn't really be, well, inconsistent with a young child's experience of molestation, you know?

Oh I know – I'm just reminding everyone that Norman Mailer was alive and well and on talk shows and this kind of attitude was quite common.

some dude you said you're not outraged by what he got away with, which is why i just wanted to clarify that you knew what he likely got away with. and when you went on about appreciating his art sans moral clause, i was curious if you actually knew the tone of the golden globes' celebration of his life and work.

"i dont have enough info to convict" is a great instinct to have - it means you should probably do jury duty. But no one's asking anyone here to convict Woody Allen - just let their awareness of his actions and the allegations against him inform how they engage with him, not just as an artist but as a public figure. the golden globes ceremony didn't show a shred of evidence that they did that.

man it would be something if the culture all of a sudden had a get right with god moment on woody the way it did with kells.

― goole, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:36 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when i wrote this i had a second clause that i didn't post: speaking for myself, abandoning woody allen, as a fan, would be a much harder thing for me, personally, and i'm not even that big a woody allen fan. i'm not really sure how i come down on this. it's true that 'manhattan' looks really twisted now (it always looked pretty twisted tbf -- on my first viewing i remember wondering why none of the guy's friends are like 'uh dude you are going to jail for this shit')

and for the whole culture to turn on him would seem to be impossible, as ppl have said. whole lot more cultural capital invested in one of the great filmmakers than in one of the great r&b singers

eah tho i always assumed (mb wrongly) that the movie was making fun of that guy

― Hungry4Ass, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait yeah I'm pretty sure that guy is supposed to be an asshole. I don't think Woody Allen is misogynistic in that particular way.

And "false accusation" child molestation stories, aside from the occasional weird "repressed memory"/hypnotherapy hoaxes, idk, you just don't hear about them very often.

true. but again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria

"Inconsistencies" wouldn't really be, well, inconsistent with a young child's experience of molestation, you know?

of course. i guess the question is how certain each of us wants to be to convince ourselves that something happened vs. "i just don't know." i'm in the latter camp.

FWIW i like some of allen's movies, dislike others, have no very strong attachment to him and his films either way.

to be clear, my 2nd paragraph of last post isn't aimed at you, sd, so much as the general sentiment expressed elsewhere in thread.

whole lot more cultural capital invested in one of the great filmmakers than in one of the great r&b singers

That...may depend on who you ask?

some dude you said you're not outraged by what he got away with, which is why i just wanted to clarify that you knew what he likely got away with. and when you went on about appreciating his art sans moral clause, i was curious if you actually knew the tone of the golden globes' celebration of his life and work.

yeah i watched the Globes, it was pretty awkward. but i was saying i don't have any problem with other people drawing a line in the sand and saying Woody crossed it for them and they'll dance on his grave and protest every award he gets -- just let anyone who thinks that should let me determine whether that's now where i draw my line.

just LIKE anyone who thinks etc.

so I didn't know that was the premise, but EW

you are misreading the post btw that is not what Manhattan is about. that is something that someone (not a major character) says at a party during the film, while comically failing to defend himself from accusations of misogyny.

i mean tbf i was making the pretty pointless argument that it's pointless to argue about this and nobody should be trying to convince anyone else to be on their side, so i can't blame you for assuming i wrote a paragraph that long to stake out an actual position. xp

the Girl Scouts theme thing is pretty clueless, i would agree.

allen apparently wasnt self-conscious at all about putting this fantasy onscreen

no idea how much of the Hemingway character is fantasy, but he'd dated a teen actress named, uh, Stacey a few years earlier.

in which a male party dude says

Played by Michael O'Donoghue, fairly well known at the time for his self-written sicko bits on SNL. He's clearly a parodic figure.

I'm sorry if I used the wrong term Hurting, but I'm not a lawyer -- but I am a misogynist, racist, and pedophile, so close enough.

no one said you were a pedophile

i'm just saying that we don't and can't live in a world where any sort of testimony is prima facie evidence of a crime. i'm not saying that's what's going on here, cos i have no idea what's going on here. but we also live in a world where shit like this happens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria

― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:48 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the differences between these situations are informative, satanic sex abuse scandals are m/l the epitome of wrongheaded stranger danger fears about childhood abuse, which stands in willful denial that abusers are usually family members or other trusted people who have close seeming good relationships with the children, abusers arent scary monsters theyre usually people who identify with and are very good at connecting with children, they practice psychological manipulation and seduction not torture

i was saying i don't have any problem with other people drawing a line in the sand and saying Woody crossed it for them and they'll dance on his grave and protest every award he gets -- just let anyone who thinks that should let me determine whether that's now where i draw my line.

traditionally that's where i stood on these things, but the whole r kelly thing made me realize how easy it is for people who like the work of a repugnant person to go from "yeah he's awful, but i still like this song" to "PRESIDENT KEELLLLLLS!!!!" as they're desensitized to what the person is accused of doing. By saying "i just assume people are awful, doesn't keep me from liking their work," one's actually taking on the responsibility to talk about these people like they're awful. So personally I'm glad for reminders, esp when awful people are being serenaded on tv.

i guess i'm playing devil's advocate here a bit. i admit i read that vanity fair article and was sickened by some of what was recounted. and it is hard for me to imagine why this little girl would have come forward and made these accusations to anyone if something awful hadn't happened. but around that event is such a thicket of issues that i guess I decided to "officially" not have an opinion, even if my reflex reaction to allen is now mostly one of disgust.

also lagoon that's a good point.

we've come a long way from thread title

or maybe not

yeah...when there's some public miscarriage of justice and someone who very likely did something terrible walks free, there's this sense, whether real or imagined, that the court of public opinion now matters, and we're all now jurors. so, it matters more if you want Woody Allen or George Zimmerman thrown in prison now that he wasn't, at least theoretically. it's difficult to quantify.

it still blows my mind that there is someone who is either Woody Allen's son or Frank Sinatra's son and nobody seems totally sure. that's fucking crazy.

lol yeah

"Hi, I'm Arnold Nixon...or Presley. one of those."

liv tyler thought warren zevon was her dad until she was like 12

nah todd rundgren

oh right

it does creep me out that mia and ronan seem to use that ambiguity to further tease/get back at allen.

"yeah, well while i was married to you i was fucking frank sinatra. your son isn't even your son!"

but again, not my family.

i knew zevon didnt seem quite there

liv tyler thought warren zevon was her dad until she was like 12

― lag∞n, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:07 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

todd rundgren's son thought warren zevon was his dad, liv tyler thought todd rundgren was his dad, and steven tyler stared into the eyes of a cow and saw god

HER dad

nothing about Farrow also being less then a great person would detract from the story -- in fact the women who marry child molesters are often not such great people

Luke Skywalker thought a young Jedi named Darth Vader betrayed and murdered his fathe!

nothing about Farrow also being less then a great person would detract from the story -- in fact the women who marry child molesters are often not such great people

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:10 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't think anyone implied that ronan and mia's tweets (or generally odd behavior) had any bearing on whatever happened or didn't happen years ago.

i didn't know any of this tyler/zevon/rundgren stuff. it's turning me into william f. buckley.

hadn't heard the zevon/rundgren bit, but yeah bebe buell's daughter could be forgiven for not being sure what rock royalty line she was in

i made up the zevon/rundgren bit. it's amusing to think of this sort of rock-star-rid roundelay where rundgren raises tyler's kid, zevon raises rundgren's kid, phil lynott raises zevon's kid, etc.

hey don't leave out Elvis Costello from that equation

xp

rock-star-Kid

ew having sex with Elvis Costello

oh lol whoops

it doesn't help that i don't really like 70s rock that much

ew having sex with Elvis Costello

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:16 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i bet he's real clever in bed

his aim is true

punch the cock

Don't put on Ray Charles for your sex music.

I assume ppl who are reading the 2013 vanity fair article are also reading the older vanity fair article from the early 90s, if not pls do so

In 2004, Orth wrote an article about Jackson serving alcohol to a 13 year old Japanese boy named Richard Matsuura in 1998 based on the stories of Myung Ho Lee, Jackson's former business advisor. NBC News' Mike Taibbi contacted Matsuura who said the story was completely false. Vanity Fair has since deleted all references to Matsuura from their website despite Orth's initial refusal to retract the story.

that's some weaksauce doubtcasting if you look at it in context of her whole journalistic career

someone lied to her ergo everyone lied to her case closed

i guess i'm playing devil's advocate here a bit. i admit i read that vanity fair article and was sickened by some of what was recounted. and it is hard for me to imagine why this little girl would have come forward and made these accusations to anyone if something awful hadn't happened.

the fact that she's still haunted by it as an adult pretty much puts the lid on any idea that this was about 'mia wanting to get back at woody' or whatever, imo.

the 1992 VF story (which i don't recommend reading actually if you're having a nice day and don't want it ruined) also casts the soon-yi thing in a much creepier light than it's generally depicted these days.

holy shit @ that 1992 story. like with the r. kelly situation, i didn't have any real awareness of how grotesque his reported behavior actually was.

heres the sequel from last year http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2013/11/mia-farrow-frank-sinatra-ronan-farrow

link?

xpost

heres the 92 one http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1992/11/farrow199211

this vanity fair article is truly horrific

its sure is, allen's hangers-on and his fame surely quashed all these accusations of allen and farrow's daughter, dylan

fuck

I remember all the accusations

i've seen most of woody allen's films and had literally never heard about the dylan allegations before today.

yeah I only knew about the soon-yi stuff and vague ideas about him being "creepy" but I didn't know about the dylan allegations. Maybe I was just a little too young when they first came out.

im okay w/ woody allen dying

we shd murder him whos in

disembowling harry

summary execution of known child molesters is morally justifiable

its settled then

distinguished ebay seller mordy sold me

Wow this is so disgusting, I had no idea, I only knew about the Soon Yi thing. Im no fan of Woody Allen, but now I have that fucking Whitlams song stuck in my head.

Ugh, I looked at the Vanity Fair thing again and it's just very hard to come up with an alternate explanation for all of the facts and evidence. "Farrow brainwashed her children" just doesn't cut it.

i've never focused on this story, but seeing that picture above of woody allen with that child on his lap at a baseball game, knowing that child grew up to become allen's wife, is horribly gross.

Guys, he made some funny movies tho

D0ug H3nw00d approvingly reposted this and I nearly flew into apoplectic rage:

Regarding that Ronan Farrow tweet about his father Woody Allen: It's interesting how much of the Allen-bashing is actually missing the point, that there are more murky issues hidden behind the powerful obfuscation engaged in by both mother and son. As a friend and colleague of mine put it (not using their name without their permission), what happened between Allen and the adopted daughter of his partner is actually fairly typical in transnational adoptions where adopted children are frequently not actually considered children/blood, and hence are subject to being sexualised differently.

This is neither excusing nor defending Allen: it's simply pointing out that the easy "feminist" ire at Allen is grasping at the most readily available object of derision. Yet Farrow, as this quote below demonstrates, is in fact someone who has obsessively gone around collecting children as if they were prizes to take home, even when she has not had the financial resources to actually take care of them. In contrast, as Dorothy Roberts shows us so brilliantly, Black women with children are constantly policed, surveilled, and demonised, and their connections to their children are constantly being broken and cast aside in the interest of a foster care system which privileges white women like Farrow and, indeed, serves to funnel Black children towards women like her. Farrow has also gone about shifting laws to enable her to do what she has wanted, and her life story is more a story about the brute force of power and lineage than that of a woman done wrong.

This is not to engage in the reverse, of simply slamming Farrow, but to point out that to simply exult in the words of Ronan Farrow (a young man who, despite his youth, is incredibly sophisticated and knows how to play both the media and is scarily positioned to become a voice in "international relations") is to ignore the murky, messy underbelly of Farrow's family history, and by that I mean the way she has gone about defining the meaning of family in ways that actually demonstrate so many of the issues around adoptions, particularly transnational and trans-racial ones, all the while persuading liberal and progressive feminists in particular to praise her as some sort of Madonna. If we're going to talk about Farrow and Allen, let's talk about ALL of it, not just one side.

And, by the way, that Vanity Fair article on her (linked below) is a hot mess, meandering and seemingly positioned more as a way to bolster Farrow's case than provide an interesting profile.

If you'd like to hear more about transnational adoptions, tune in to my podcast NEXT week, where I talk with Joy Messinger.
To hear more about feminism and its affective framings today, tune in THIS week, to hear me talk with Liza Featherstone.

This quote is from "Flexible Production: International Adoption, Race, Whiteness," by Anthony Shiu (with many thanks to the friend who sent it along), published in the journal Jouvert, special double issue, "Growing Up Elsewhere," Volume 6, Issues 1 - 2 (Fall 2001)

"But not all is easy for Farrow, and her eventual adoption of Soon-Yi Previn in 1977 was met by legal restrictions; federal law prohibited more than two visas per family for the purposes of international adoption. "We had our quota," Farrow writes:
"Forget it, the agency told us: to change the law would require an act of Congress. But we already had been sent a blurry black-and-white two-by-two-inch head shot of a child. . . . This was my daughter. . . . My old friends, Bill and Rose Styron, sought the help of Massachusetts Congressman Michael Harrington, and he agreed to sponsor the bill that was necessary. . . . Finally, in 1977, Congress passed the bill. Soon-Yi could come home." (179-80)[5]
And though the reach of her powers of influence may seem extreme in relation to "average" Americans, this excerpt dovetails nicely with the next section on the reformulation of international and transracial adoption law. Changing the law and having the connections to do so point to the relative ease with which Farrow can utilize her "connections" and take advantage of her standing in order to participate in the systems of universalist emotive love that she has constructed. These are amazing powers, yet not atypical; the recent history of (international) adoption law is also the recent history of arguments by whites against "reverse discrimination," all to allow the adoption of racialized children into homes that, while financially solvent, are oftentimes wholly unaware of how racialization will affect their children and unwilling to even acknowledge that international adoption is, in a sense, a will to power."

"grasping at the most readily available object of derision" you know the child molester, easy target

"a hot mess"

I KNOW!!! AAARGHHH!!!

"But the situation is more complicated. You see, Farrow WHAT LLALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HERE YOU LALALALA"

guys really who's the real monster - the person who molests a child or the person who adopts one?

s in fact someone who has obsessively gone around collecting children

in fact

wtf would inspire someone to write something like my god

wait wait wait

woody allen might be kind of a creepy guy?!?

"kind of a creepy guy"

Allen obsessives are mostly scum ime who don't treat people very nice(ly)

Jeeeeez, that '92 article is hard reading.

sarcasm xxp

I mean, just like the r kelly reaction 20 years later, it's like *slaps forehead* wtf

wtf would inspire someone to write something like my god

― lag∞n, Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:04 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

next level challops plus left cred-seeking plus secret blind WA love is my guess

btw I do love several Woody Allen films, like at one time I really deeply loved them. He was sort of a deity in my family. It's actually really depressing and painful to realize just how bad the evidence against him looks, and even though I partly "got over him" at some point, I still find it painful. Like I used to think "I'll watch Woody Allen movies with my kids one day" and I'm starting to feel like maybe I won't.

To hear more about feminism and its affective framings today, tune in THIS week, to hear me talk with Liza Featherstone.

I would, but I have to wash my hair.

IRL lols

to ignore the murky, messy underbelly of Farrow's family history, and by that I mean the way she has gone about defining the meaning of family in ways that actually demonstrate so many of the issues around adoptions, particularly transnational and trans-racial ones, all the while persuading liberal and progressive feminists in particular to praise her as some sort of Madonna. If we're going to talk about Farrow and Allen, let's talk about ALL of it, not just one side.

this shit makes me want to weep in fury and revulsion.

oh it's Y4sm1n N41r fwiw, didn't realize there was no credit on that.

As a friend and colleague of mine put it (not using their name without their permission), what happened between Allen and the adopted daughter of his partner is actually fairly typical in transnational adoptions where adopted children are frequently not actually considered children/blood, and hence are subject to being sexualised differently.

Imma need to see some stats that define this "fairly typical" thing.

yyyyeeeeah

i usually like henwood but yeesh at him approving of that

what on earth does "sexualized differently" mean

srsly get angrier the more i think about this:

And, by the way, that Vanity Fair article on her (linked below) is a hot mess, meandering and seemingly positioned more as a way to bolster Farrow's case than provide an interesting profile.

yeah a really boring meandering PR-y hot mess, complete with a horrifying account of child abuse as told by an adult woman with detailed memories of it, yawn, let's get back to discussing things that really matter like my podcast next week

man that article, or whatever it is. i have to wash my hands after reading it.

i mean the Y4sm1n N41r one

This quote - which nobody contests - is at least enough to cement the guy as an all time scumbag. The idea that anybody can look past this truly boggles my mind. Modeling!

Farrow... made the discovery of Allen’s affair with Soon-Yi when she found a stack of Polaroids taken by him of her daughter, her legs spread in full frontal nudity. Woody would later say publicly that the pictures had been taken because Soon-Yi was interested in modeling.

u people are prudes, ephebophilia is cornerstone of male sexuality

Gross

the words of Ronan Farrow (a young man who, despite his youth, is incredibly sophisticated and knows how to play both the media and is scarily positioned to become a voice in "international relations")

Gross. Shouldn't have even Googled that word. xxpost.

the only useful thing to come out of stories like this is you get to identify all the douchebags who try and handwave it away

I didn't know "guilty until proven innocent" was a Millennial thing, mea culpa.

I also recall Yankee closer Mariano Rivera, who was treated like a Nobel Peace Prize prospect on his retirement tour last season, being accused of rape by a clubhouse guy who'd been fired about a decade ago. Overall tone of media reaction was "fag wants money." Mine was "probably true, pro athletes rape a lot." Some kinds of allegations seem to be accepted on their face more than others, depending on the hearer.

i don't think it's about automatically assuming all these allegations are true so much as the lengths some writers seem to be going to to assume the allegations are all baseless

how about not assuming anything?

just responding to some really creepy misogynist journalism not going to sic a private detective on W Allen tbh

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/woody-allen-child-molestation?utm_source=vicefb

A friend of a friend, once I told him what I was trying to accomplish by being at the Aero, didn't actively tell me to shove it. Instead, he gave me the brush-off I knew so well. "By that rationale," he argued, "you could write off Picasso and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle."

?

yeah me neither

Maybe he meant Gauguin and Lewis Carroll.