how boring must indiana be to think of this as fun

Indiana: We Don't Hate Fun, We Just Don't Understand It

That means we can character-assassinate them with impunity!

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/Zimmerman_Amy-HC-GF71602222005180234.gif http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/Zimmerman_Amy-HC-GF71602222005180234.gif http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/Zimmerman_Amy-HC-GF71602222005180234.gif

HAS A POSSEE.

xxpost

Is anyone close to Indy or Muncie who can give me a weather report? I'm shooting there this week and want to know what it looks like out there. if it snows, will it settle?

Considering Muncie is in such poor financial shape that they recently considered closing the animal shelters (and just letting the animals run free) and shutting off the street lights, I hope for your sake that there's no accumulation. Because that shit will probably just sit there, untouched.

P.S. Why in the name of god are you going to/near Muncie?

I'm making an experimental film there.

Also I like that bar, on the main street. You can smoke in there. The Ha-Bar or something?

I am living in Indiana for the next few weeks...in Petersburg. I have been here a week and have formed some pretty strong opinions. I am open to being educated on this state. Tell me what to eat here, what to try, see, drink etc.... as I would like to enjoy myself while I am here. Checking out Bloomington on Sunday.

I am quite sure the casserole was born in Indiana. There is no good food here. Old men walk into restaurants just to order a cup of water and look at a wall. They have the right idea because what I have eaten here is the worst stuff I have ever had in my life. I had deep fried portobello mushrooms that were nothing more than tiny sponges loaded with grease. I nearly cried when the little, red, plastic basket with red and white checkered paper arrived at my table and saw the contents of a horribly massacred mushroom. What I haven't tried is cornbread salad. It looked like a real bad cornbread stuffing and it is served cold. The bean salad I had is something with one type of bean(could't make it out) drowning in a mayonnaise soup. It had tiny bits of relish and onion and a cheese square.

The Mexican food has been great but you won't find mole,aguas frescas or horchata at the restaurants because they said the clientele doesn't go for such exotic things. Lots of cheese enchiladas: filled with cheese and covered with a melted cheese. The waitress said it is what the gringos like.

I get stared at everywhere go. It is hard not to think it is because I am Hispanic and the only people of color I see are in the one Mexican restaurant in town. The waitress told me, counting me, there are five of us in the town. She said the bigger, small town down the road had a larger Hispanic population. It does and they even have tiendas that sell curios, Bimbo bread and all the spices you need for a good mole. I don't feel the hard stare so much there.

People say the South has a slower pace of living but in Indiana, the snails seem to be at everyone's heels. People walk very slow here, take their time to answer you, take their time forming the sentences and just getting along. I am from a small, west Texas town where we have speed limits of 25mph, the pace of life is pretty slow there, I thought. But in Petersburg it is so slow I get creeped out. The corn and soybean fields are also creeping me out. While I have never in my life been creeped out by senior citizens (enjoyed working closely with them when I worked at a gym for seniors) the ones in Indiana have managed to really creep me out.

The Amish are also creeping me out. They shop for bread at Wal-Mart. I didn't think that was allowed. I thought they had to make their own bread in a hearth or something. Wikipedia says one thing but I am clearly seeing something else in Indiana. So if you know about the Amish, I open to learning about why they don't do the buggy thing and why they now own mansions, restaurants and can't bake bread.

The place has beautiful sunsets and the CVS and Wal-Mart sell liquor, that's cool.

I really thought I would be loving it way more here. Just a really off vibe.

Are you saying that my nawnee is a bad cook? Or that she's creepy? I could go for some corn fields right now, and nawnee's cheese potatoes and sweet corn and a barn and a basement game room and an above-ground pool. I wanna be like Dennis Christopher in Breaking Away and ride my bike 70 mph drafting a semi.

Bloomington has noise and folk-punk. They probably have some good food. I was born in Lafayette. They have mini-golf and a cool three-storey fountain and probably a couple decent record stores.

My nawnee used to work in this factory, and when they would recycle the florescent bulbs, she said, they would drop them into a grinder that turned them into powder.

I was on the west end of town the other day, by the ports, and it smelled like pig shit and seawater and reminded me of papaw, no shit.

Summer in Indiana must be glorious. I'm so envious of you right now.

I am quite sure the casserole was born in Indiana

this is so great, i would read the rest of the novel that started this way. "We make ourselves casseroles in order to live".

I really liked Lafayette when I was there, but it is a long drive from downstate. I haven't been to southern Indiana in ages, it was really pretty though.

tera, the "Amish" people you see might be Mennonites? They're a little more accepting of the English world/modernity so you might see them accepting rides or eating in restaurants and stuff (although I never saw any driving, themselves).

Like this post a lot, otherwise. OTM re Mexican food, I'm frankly amazed it's not cheddar cheese and ground beef on a crispy Old El Paso shell. Enchiladas are actually kind of elevated fare for the rural Midwest.

The Grain Belt isn't sinister, it's just really, really boring.

I am quite sure the casserole was born in Indiana. There is no good food here. Old men walk into restaurants just to order a cup of water and look at a wall. They have the right idea because what I have eaten here is the worst stuff I have ever had in my life.

Such a good opening.

The Grain Belt isn't sinister, it's just really, really boring.

idk, all those Tom Raper billboards on I-70 are pretty creepy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9D2-sC8wus

The Grain Belt isn't sinister, it's just really, really boring.

― it's not that print journalists don't have a sense of humour, it's just (Laurel), Friday, July 29, 2011 10:33 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark

I had thought that Indiana was a Klan stronghold. Also, my car broke down there in the middle of the night during a snowstorm along with an Indian and a Korean friend of mine. We hitchhiked and eventually got picked up by a man who told my friends that they were going to hell for their religions.

The last part is standard for everywhere in at least a 3-state radius. The Klan thing I don't know about.

(*If you count Western PA as its own state, I guess)

My own mother probably believes everyone who hasn't accepted Christ as their personal savior is going to hell, that's not really news.

Southern Indiana (where Petersburg is) is really Appalachia, & so quite different from what's north of Indianapolis. I lived in Northern Indiana for six years, just south of the Michigan border, & that's really part of greater Chicagoland. It is Klan Kountry though, & ICP, & the 70s never ended. I call it the armpit of the USA. I would live there again, though.

I've only got two Indiana experiences - ate dinner at a Shoney's in Evansville one night. I had never seen so many striped polo shirts in my life. (Later I realized that Garth Brooks had played in town and it was 1994, after all.) Also stopped at a country store that had canned vegetables way past their expiration date from the first Bush administration and a sunglasses rack where all the lenses were coated in dust.

Now. I know what it's like to live in a state that offers awful first impressions, but Indiana was just a different beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTsuhJCW5RY

my gf is going to Indiana today for PIEROGIFEST

http://pierogifest.net/

3 Floyds' Brewing is in nw IN too, one of the better beers in the region

I've seen Amish/Menonite-looking people piling into minivans after stocking up on snacks at a gas station...maybe they were a rogue sect, who knows.

We used to see them eating at Pizza Hut once in a while, and that's going back about 20 years. Which is why I say they may have been Mennonites.

There are lots of Mennonites in northern Indiana who, aside from dressing kinda old-fashioned (bonnets!), live more or less normal Indiana lives.

so really they're just hipsters on some other shit

The Amish can ride in a van, if they have to, they just can't drive. There was a recent fatal accident that involved the Amish.

I used to see Mennonites all the time at the hospital I delivered sandwiches to. Also remember a truckstop in northern Missouri where a guy would tie his horse to a pole and sell pecan pies to travelers. They'll take Yankee cash, if you've got it.

I drove thru IN on tuesday. I stopped at a Stuckeys!

Growing up in central Indiana and having just spent a week there, I'll agree you really have to look to find good restaurant food. Especially anything that is not fried (pork tenderloin anyone?). And it might be nearly impossible to find in a smaller town. When the sweet corn starts coming in though, and the tomatoes, I do miss living there.

It was a huge Klan enclave when I was living there (until 1990) and it wouldn't surprise me if it still is.

The Klan was originally a Southern organization, but the 20th Century revival started in Indiana, where blacks were "migrating north" and "taking jobs" from whites. (sound familiar?)

Indiana may suffer the same Midwestern fate as St. Louis when it comes to cuisine: worst of the north with the worst of the south. Fried sheep brains, anyone?

bunch of aristocrats

Okay, so I have now been to Vincennes and got a whole different feel. I love the old buildings downtown and met this really nice Robert Mitchum lookalike at a record store who was super sweet and nice. We ate at Guppy's and it was the best food I have had in the state. Really not bad. So things started to look up. Driving back to Petersburg though, my depression returned. It's this small town. It doesn't matter what I do here, this particular place is just rank, has a sleazy vibe, racist vibe, I am not myself here at all, I don't even have my usual thoughts. I can usually deal with a bad situation watching TCM but the motel doesn't have that channel. Very challenging.

Yesterday we went to Terre Haute and Bloomington. Loved both places! Bloomington reminded me of Austin circa 1989, maybe even 1986. I was a big fan of Breaking Away and this sweet bartender was patient enough to put up with me geeking out to the film and asking him where the different scenes from the film played out. Had a great glass of wine from Argentina there too, lots of friendly smiles, there were bookstores, nice restaurants, cool buildings really enjoyed the day.

Back to Petersburg where I have just woken feeling blehk despite the awesome day long excursion yesterday. We are here till mid-August. I am planning on spending time out of Petersburg during the week with trips to Vincennes. I have never had such an aversion to a place. I have felt uncomfortable in some places, temporarily, maybe just for a moment, but never like this, where I loathe to wake up here.

Interesting gossip: This Hispanic waitress at a Mexican restaurant in Washington told me the "gringas" like to go hang out at the Mexican store at the edge of town and pick up Hispanic men. I had just been to that store and was impressed with their sundries. It's like little Mexico in that store, they even sold nopales. Anyway the place was packed with men, I figured it was a day labor site. They were polite and friendly, told me where I could find more of my people and liked that I was from Texas asking me about the work there and all. The waitress said that in Washington, IN, White men are not interested in Latina women and so there is a lot of animosity towards the White women because they take the Latino men. The waitress said it's because they are just so bored. I couldn't help but think, yeah, day laborer site for sure.

There are good beers here... that is for sure.

bamcquern: I apologize. I sincerely never want to insult anyone's nawnee. It isn't the whole state, it's this town. I wish I could even say only a few individuals in this town, but it is the whole town.

BTW: Every little town we passed from Bloomington back to Petersburg last night had a library. I really liked that.

growing up in Louisville, Ky right on the border there was an ambient dislike of Indiana that was a kind of civic pride, plus lots of basketball rivalry, no real outcome other than corny / nasty remarks about the Hoosiers on the wrong side of the river- since KY has an identity crisis about whether it is the MidWest or the South, I guess the Hoosiers helped us to feel more Southern maybe?

Oh Kentucky, sweetie, you're the South.

I admit though, it weirds me out thinking about states that are part of Appalachia where the mountains are to the East.

Kentucky's not the South. They're the pie crust for Ohio, Indiana and Illinois.

Sounds like tera* is writing a Shirley Jackson book.

Teeheee....

I <3 Indiana so much

Was this already posted?

Guy lives in a Wal-Mart for 3 Days.

In Iowa, so it's sort of relevant.

Actually, this thread is more about IA than Wal-Mart, so I will go away.

Had a great conversation with a third generation farmer at the laundry mat this afternoon. It is unfortunate that we were interrupted just when he was getting into stories his grandfather told him about the Great Depression here in Indiana.

This 84 year old man came in and was sweet, telling me all about his life here in Indiana and how he can never find shoes. Then out of nowhere he told me that I could find more Mexicans in Jasper and Washington. I thought, hey, he is 84 and maybe wants me to be happy here and thinks being with my own people will make me happy. I did after all ask the waitress the other day if there was a good dance place in town that played cumbia, ranchero or tejano music.

Anyway, he quickly followed that with how those places have poultry farms and lots of poultry business and I could find myself a good paying job working there. Hmmm, was it my blue and white checkered dress that inspired thoughts of poultry work? I do love chickens. How did he know that? I just thanked him and said I wouldn't be in town long. When he left he told me to take good care of myself. All and all I would say it was a nice day.

what is the opposite of sb?

Agreed! I don't dream about Indiana any more after 21 years in the Pacific NW, but I used to when I first moved here, for years even. *tera your posts are great and very evocative of the strange slow vibe that this region has.

there is something of a Mexican population in Dubois county, around Jasper and huntingburg. My people are there. It is indeed grim but French Lick has these two super cool Edith whartonish turn of the century resorty brain tonicky hotels that are worth seeing. West Baden is one. Don't remember the name of the other.

*tera are you a writer? Cause if you ain't, you should be. These are some damn engaging posts :)

Than you, I am not a writer.

I did once write a piece for Para Mi Magazine on childhood trips to Los Mochis. I have done real cheesy freelance work for Demand Studios but I am not what I call a writer. I haven't written for Demand Studios in two years because I didn't think I was very good at it. I am just experiencing something right now and my girlfriends are all back in Texas so I write to feel better.

Every morning I wake up at 6am Petersburg, IN time, that is 5am, my old, home time in Austin, TX, to make breakfast and lunch for my Sweetie. I will then watch four episodes of I Love Lucy back to back and just hover over falling back to sleep. Around 8am I hear the theme song to The Golden Girls and wake up. I will clean up the top of the desk that doubles as my kitchen, straighten up the motel room then shower. There are some days when I have a list of errands to run, other days I will leave the room only to throw out the trash. I am happier in the room listening to music, television on but muted and face to face with my new best friend, my Mac. Lately I have been feeling I need more sleep. I usually drift off around midnight and it just isn't enough. So yesterday I didn't watch the Ricardo's or the Mertz's and was able to pick up three hours of sleep. I was in much better spirits the rest of the day.

This morning I was looking forward to the same. Around 8am there was a knock at my door and I thought it might be room service so I called out that I was okay today. They usually come around 1pm though. I heard a man and two women saying something about me being in here and how one of them heard me say something. I fell back to sleep before I could figure anything out and dreamt about my friend's wig shop. In the dream this old rotary phone was ringing and I kept picking it up but my hands were just going through it. I finally woke up and realized it was the motel phone across the room. Across the room! So I got up and answered it and caught the time 10:12am. I barely said a word assuming it was going to be a wrong number because no one would ever call me here. This lusty female voice kept repeating , "I'm sorry, hon, were you asleep?" I kept saying yes, yes, mmmhmmm, and couldn't make out who this was and what they wanted. Before I could ask the woman who she was or anything, she said she wondered if I wanted to make $15 and run to the Wal-Mart for her. I then realized this was the motel caretaker. It is not like we have become friends or have even had a conversation beyond weather chit chat. I wondered why she was asking me to do this. She said she was sorry for waking me and hung up.

I am left a bit baffled. Maybe it bothers her I don't leave the room until 12pm on those days I do leave. They don't pick up the room until 1pm and yesterday it was 2:30pm before they ever got here. The room is usually clean anyway with little two little tidy corners, one that holds luggage and the other a bag of dirty clothing. I did laundry yesterday so that corner is clean. There is a tote filled with yarn and knitting needles, a yoga mat and girly weights neatly tucked under the desk/kitchen. I would feel odd running an errand for someone I don't know anyway. I mean someone I haven't really had a real conversation with. She has a vehicle, a child and a husband. She is in her early 30's and she is friendly with a few other women I see around here during the day. Wal-Mart is in Washington, IN, 13 miles from this spot. No, today I do not feel like making $15 running to Wal-Mart.

I can't help thinking that she might think you need the money?

I wear a different dress every day. Though she may not see me every day. I packed for the duration when we came here not knowing when we could get back to Texas. I don't need the money. I still have a tiny bit of my divorce settlement still in savings...

Tera - these are interesting to read esp since I've never been anywhere near Indiana and am sort of fascinated by these sorts of towns. May I ask what you are doing there? My apologies if you've already said as much and I missed it. I mostly read your long posts and skimmed the rest in an attempt to catch up.

Indiana - The Too Long; Did Not Read State

The idea of staying in a "motel" -- almost by definition something small and crappy and occupied by drifters and the temporarily homeless -- in small-town Indiana in the summertime makes me need to go lie down and cry. There must be a reason you couldn't/didn't find even the smallest rental property with its own KITCHEN?? At least that way you could make some tea and look around you and be ALONE during the day.

Um. People who take vacations stay in motels all the time.

Motels? Or hotels? Maybe it's just because of the small town and the "caretaker" at the front desk that I'm imagining it like some ramshackle one-story thing with rooms you walk to outside, and bed spreads dating from 1979.

Like this

http://www.lake-landmotel.com/parklot.jpg

The inside: http://www.lake-landmotel.com/room1.jpg

That's about all there is out in the boonies!

I love those kinds of places. & I have a friend who travels the nation in search of those places; he's a kind of amateur photojournalist of that lost America, without irony.

xp I know! Those pictures are from a motel in my home town.

Laurel, Jesus. For family vacations, my dad used to drive a few hours out of town, register at a motel with a pool, and call it a day. And it would be awesome. If there was an arcade nearby it would be doubly awesome.

You're not gonna fool anybody though when you hide the money in the air-return vent.

those places can be really good, or they can be a total nightmare, depending on who owns/operates the hotel

Jeez, okay, sorry! I never knew anyone to use anything like that, and we had several right in town. They always seemed like their heyday ended in 1967 and no one had cleaned anything in them since.

pp, are you referencing a movie? there's something on the tip of my tongue but I just can't think of it.

If I were in a small midwestern town, and it was well-maintained with no visible criminal activity in the parking lot, sure, I'd stay there.

No Country for Old Men!

do not stay at one that is within a half mile of a strip club

Sound advice.

I drove across Indiana on a cross-country road trip when I was ten. I remember absolutely nothing about it.

3rded/4thed notion that you should be a writer, tera. i read ilx at work, so posts as long as yours usually wouldn't get read. but i've read every one here.

I am in Petersburg, IN because my boyfriend works on pipelines and he is doing work on a line here. We haven't been together long and this is the second job I have been with him on. The first job was only a few days in Columbus, TX. That was a teenie town but it was still Texas and the place had a lot of character. It was close enough to Austin,TX and so I had my girlfriends come up to see me.

This is the first job out of state and it is a few weeks. I have always been into small town America and open to it but I naively forget I am Hispanic and look it too. So these little towns may not always be the places they are to my boyfriend who is White. Now that I have had this little culture shock I will be more prepared for the next small town. Although I don't want to be one of those people who is always on the defensive about racial issues.

There is more at play here to. I have always worked at least two jobs since 1995. I had a steady job for 13 years in Austin,TX and now I don't work. I planned on finding jobs here and there as we would travel (like Tod and Buz on Route 66) and now see that I am the type who should be working because my mind just needs to get busy with something or it turns in on itself. The library in town was not too friendly and claimed they didn't even need volunteer work. I haven't seen any help wanted signs and we aren't going to be here long enough anyway. Then of course, would I even want to try and get a job in a place like this? I hope to find a job as soon as my boyfriend finds a job that lasts several months. It may be in another place just like this but I feel that I will be better at dealing with it and will find something to do, volunteer work or real employment. I just hope we don't encounter these places that often. Vincennes, for example, has a whole other feel so I am hopeful. Still, despite everything I am okay with this experience for the most part. I just like experiences even though they might get a bit too frustrating or weird, I know I will look back at them later and be cool with it.

do not stay at one that is within a half mile of a strip club

― it was pleasant and delightful, just like (La Lechera), Tuesday, August 2, 2011 1:58 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol

I LOVE motels like that but they have to be well-maintained and clean ones and not all of them are. There's something so distinctly American about them that I find really appealing. Also, they're creepy as hell which I sort of love. I would not, however, want to spend an extended period of time in one.

I've stayed in many good ones but enough bad ones to be able to spot them from the looks of the front desk and location/proximity to skeevy places. Parking lot can tell you a lot too.

I had a horrible toothache in one of those once and I think the nightmares are still with me. Also, one word: bugs. The movie Bug, in fact.

*tera, re the weird racist vibe you're getting, I would say...cautiously... that you're probably not wrong? When I was in gradeschool my parents became friends with a couple from Mexico City through my dad's job, and I remember that the woman found it very challenging to keep her temper while dealing w people in West Michigan. She probably left out the gory details since I was young and impressionable, but I heard enough. They stayed for a couple of years, so she had time to get involved with the art museum, charities, volunteering, (it was a larger town, obv) but when she was out at stores and around town, she was still asked if she was a migrant worker. Or people would be amazed that her English was "so good", etc.

Otoh we also hosted an exchange student from Mexico when I was in high school, and she joined right into everything that all the other HS girls did and was far more popular than I was at my own school. :D So it's really entirely about being seen as an outsider vs an insider, no matter where you're from.

I actually love the motel room. It is very comforting now and my little womb, I sometimes find myself going fetal. It is very late 1940's and the bathroom looks original and well preserved. Other construction and pipeline workers stay here and they are all cool, working men who come home, have a beer, listen to music, sit outside and talk about their wives back home. I like catching those conversations. Makes me realize that at some point, everyone is met with the same batch of problems no matter what their socio-economic level is. If you manage to escape 1/2 of them count yourself lucky and not banal. It isn't a creepy place when they are here. It is very alive. It's pretty empty during the day. I wouldn't say it is creepy, only desolate. The room is my favorite place right now. I do catch myself wondering who has stayed here over the decades and what did they talk about, why were they here...

You can view pics here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/tera/sets/72157627216956133/

We stayed at a hotel that housed section 8 tenants in Houston twice. Just over night, it was $29.99 a night. There was always a cop in the lobby. People never went to sleep there. I'd wake up at all hours and there would be so much activity, talking, yelling, babies crying. One night, it was on our second stay, I woke up to a fight next door. There was furniture being thrown against the wall we shared, a baby in the room screaming, people yelling and a few people crying loudly. That is when I noticed how thin the walls were and how a bullet could easily penetrate the sheetrock, the flimsy head board and then our bodies. At that point I thought we were pushing it by staying there even one night. It looked like it was once some really nice place back in 1969. It was clean. It was really creepy though, well, downright scary.

You didn't mention that you had Chartreuse with you. : )

I have always been a huge fan of the show Route 66 so motels, small towns, driving around the country, experiences..it all appeals to me. In fact, it just occurred to me that this is a Route 66 episode. If Tod and Buz were here they would totally help me out with the race issue. I'm sure I would easily be Buz's type too...oh the drama that would ensue before everything got worked out. Teehee. Love George Maharis, he was so, so dreamy!

HA! I do have Chartreuse and it is glorious. Makes everything so nice and wonderful and all of a sudden I have the world on a string. But then it's over....I drank a small 200ml of vodka the other day straight from the bottle and when I was done thought, oh dear, this is how you end up at those meetings. So I am not touching the booze. I had a tequila shot in Washington and realized I had a drive home and I'm a lightweight. So I am hitting the horchata instead.

Tera - is your bf an ILXOR?

NM - just answered my own question by spotting a pic in your flickr. I recognized you from one he'd posted of the two of you on WDYLL and I know he's told other irl people about ILX so I put 2+2 together. Sorry if that sounds creepy. I have an exceptionally good memory for small details including people's faces. Sometimes it's awesome but it can freak some people out sometimes.

Yes... he is actually.

I can't be freaked out unless you you come at me with a cornbread salad walking like a sleestak and want me to go to Wal-Mart for you. Sorry....

:) LOL

This thread - or at least your updates to it - are awesome btw.

btw cornbread salad is sort of mind-blowing to me. I can't even imagine what that is.

Thank you.

It looked like just stuffing, like a real wet stuffing that was served cold and my bf said it was sort of sweet. He had a nibble. I refused to try it. I sort of believe in kinesiology, and everything in me was saying no.

Well the cat's out of the bag for us *tera. I've loved reading your posts, maybe with the next job is in Baltimore, things will be more exciting. We have found great records in Indiana! Maybe you should start a thread about life on the road?

There are really great vinyl finds in Indiana. Actually, I also found that vintage Native American jewelry and 80 year old sterling stamped Taxco pieces from Mexico are quite the steal here as well. Practically giveaways. Practically the mother lode.

I hope to be so occupied with my camera, coffee houses, vintage and book stores, record stores and exploring the next place we will be in that I won't have time to dwell or even have a dreariness to write about. If it happens to be Vincennes, I will be so happy!

This morning I heard the lawn mower again. There is a strip of grass behind the motel that measures maybe 400sqft. It has been getting mowed every day. I kept hearing the sound of a lawnmower since my first morning here but would delegate the noise to that part of my consciousness that barely simmers on a low flame. A few days ago I looked out the bathroom window and saw a man stoically riding a lawnmower and mowing what seems like a very insignificant piece of land. Apparently the patch of grass is very important to this man. He is either dedicated to having the grass always look neat and trim or determined to never let it flourish or have it's way, not even for a mere 24 hours. The feeling I get from the grass is it is being oppressed.

I think one of my freshman-year roommates was from Vincennes. Hot-shot tennis player with a sly grin and a deep drawl.

Out of curiosity, how is that town pronounced? Vin-senz?

Vin-senz - yes.

New Orleans can be so treacherous for me. After all the work to learn how to pronounce French correctly, the names all come to me that way and figuring out how to Americanize them is hard, especially since I'm often a wee bit temulent there.

Indiana has both Vin-sinz and Ver-saelz

the tomatoes are really great in summer though

Vincennes has the Pantheon Theatre, patiently undergoing restoration. There was a large sign on the building requesting donations. It sounds like it was once something spectacular. I love the downtown area. I love those old buildings.

There's so many terrific brick and limestone buildings in small towns all over Indiana, lots of small vaudeville houses and masonic temples and storefronts with flourishes where you least expect them. Southern Indiana is still a major limestone producer, huge quarries still operating around Bloomington.

Mostly teens and 20's architecture?

That, and some Beaux-Arts/City Beautiful era too, especially in county seats. Lots of small prosperous manufacturing started happening in that whole area from about 1880 through the 20s.

One of the major highways through Indiana goes through the middle of an old quarry! I remember it, vaguely!

I like the state highways in Indiana. And the cool old courthouses!

I asked about the quarry featured in the movie Breaking Away and heard that all the quarries are hard to get too and are not open to swimmers or hikers? I heard this from a bartender in Bloomington. He said you can ride a bike and park a distance away and try and get in that way. We really wanted to swim in an old quarry. Austin had one in the early 90's that was really fun but by 2000 it was already Old Quarry Condominiums.

The houses are amazing, lots of American Four Square, Romanesque Revival, Queen Anne and Colonial Revival. We love these houses!

I'd like to drive through the middle of an old quarry!

I am really into old vaudeville houses as well. I am really curious about the Gimbel Corner in Vincennes. Much time traveling can be had there so I need to get back soon.

I really love foursquares with dormers and big porches.

They're so American, so "country breezes" and "porch-settin' " in nature.

We really wanted to swim in an old quarry

White Rock Park is quite aways east of you, but there are 3 old quarries there to swim in.

Wait, maybe the highway-through-quarry was in Illinois. Sorry. It was somewhere along a family drive we used to make from MI to Chicago.

I'm fairly certain that there was a big quarry in the middle of Indiana somewhere. My family drove from Maryland to Wisconsin & the UP every summer and that quarry was one of the scenic higlights of the trip.

You can see the quarry where they mined all the stone for the Empire State building, just north of Oolitic (have always loved the name of this town, also Gnaw Bone). But it's nowhere near a major highway. There's an abandoned quarry in Eagle Creek park, northwest of Indianapolis - I wonder if it can be spotted from I-65? Would be probable.

Now I sort of want to go back and revisit all the parks and places we would hang out at as kids.

Ah, Laurel's right. It is in IL.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/3090951792_fa2247bc6d_z.jpg?zz=1

This morning I received an email from a friend of mine in Texas. He told his partner that I was in Petersburg,IN and his partner urged him to email me right away to let me know that I am in Little Dixie. I looked into it. In the 1920's Joe Huffington started the official Indiana chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. The first headquarters was in Evansville, Indiana. Sinister histories linger like old hornets nests. Even when they are not active, the fact that they exist makes them becoming a home for hornets again a definite possibility.

My friend visited this area a few years ago. His partner has been visiting these parts once or twice a year for the past twenty years. In fact, he was just in Evansville a few days ago. I wish I could have had dinner with him. He is a history professor at UT and just a really interesting person with connections to people I know and love. When my friend found out we may be going to Baltimore, MD soon he was excited for me. John Waters! I have John Waters stalking fantasies.

We are going to check out these quarries!

John Waters! I have John Waters stalking fantasies.

A fairly high number of ILXors (myself included) seem to have run into or met him under amusing circumstances so if you do move to MD perhaps the trend might continue and you'll be the next.

Ah, Laurel's right. It is in IL.

Oh wow, I totally remember that quarry from childhood car rides.

Okay, so that is all I need to hear to feel lucky, thanks, ENBB.

I would love to drive through that. Never heard of it until now. It looks so awesome!!!

always strangely disappointed that the first post here isn't a pic of calista flockhart

I tried to Google street maps 'drive' through Vincennes yesterday but it's not very well covered and there's a really annoying smudge on the camera. It otherwise looks like Americana of a very charming stripe.

The Empire Quarry.

Looks astonishing, almost Egyptian in appearance.

visiting a friend in semi-rural pennsylvania. yesterday we drove past a huge quarry (as opposed to one of those tiny ones!) that looked amazing. naturally i thought of this thread

We just returned from Washington, IN. You know, the place I have been saying is not as strange nor as lurid as Petersburg. We went into the town for a promising Mexican dinner at a hole in the wall I had seen and kept hearing about. It was somewhat disappointing. They put mayo on the torta. Who does that? My tacos de lengua were good. There were no chile rellenos, aguas frescas or any of the other foods we were told we could order there. After, I took my boyfriend to the corner store I have been frequenting. This time there was a strange scene, men on cell phones and rolls of hundreds passing hands.

The laundromat had it's own creepy thing going on. Perched outside were three lethargic, little White girls probably ages three, eight and ten. The youngest was quite shocking. She wore the intense scowl of a severely, emotionally injured adult. Her frown never let up, she sat quietly, her face covered with sweat and dirt, her little hands in fists, her curls a tangled mess. Her eyes were the oldest eyes I have ever seen. A young Hispanic man passed by and smiled at them. They showed no emotion but after he entered the laundromat, the oldest asked her mother, who must have been one of the two women sitting several feet away, if she could go inside and say hello. Her mother nodded and all three girls immediately jumped up and ran in.

We bought tortillas and chorizo, a few snacks and left. On the way into town was a young girl in a tank top saucily sauntering as she pushed a stroller with a child no more than a year old and had a two year old walking beside her. She tossed her head and gave my boyfriend a look I have never seen any adult woman give him. We were both a bit freaked out with that brief encounter with pure jail bait.

On the way back home the bucolic landscape was interrupted by intermittent transmission lines and the four smokestacks puffing away at the power plant. We talked about the faces of the children we have seen these past few weeks and how there seems to always be a collection can with the photo of a kid suffering from some bizarre cancer I have never heard of. As we walked through the motel room door the familiar sounds of Lucy, Ricky and the Metz's greeted us. I had left the television on.

Lucy would've been 100 today.

Photo set of the West Baden Springs hotel. Unexpected grandeur in very rural Indiana. We ate lunch in the main domed space; the menu was an odd mix of ladies-who-lunch chicken salad etc and bar food.

This is nice!!!! Are these your pics? The Bowling Pavilion looks like something in France.

PP-I celebrated by watching the marathon on Hallmark....commercials but I have nothing but time, teehee....

Yes they are - we were back there over the 4th of July as part of a big road trip. Having grown up in central Indiana, I'd been down to Brown County and Bloomington lots, but never realized these huge old hotels were there.

I love huge, old hotels. The Shining never really took that away from me, teehee...

My boyfriend suggested dinner tonight at an Amish settlement. Sounds interesting. My first impression of Amish food at the Black Buggy wasn't great though.

I don't want to limit out experiences here. I want to see all we can see good or bad but the Amish...

Since being here and shopping with them at the Wal-Mart for groceries, I have discovered that they creep me out in groups of three or more. It's the whole cult/religion/lifestyle ambiguity coupled with their attire and the looks on their faces. I never understood people who were creeped out by clowns but I sort of get it now. It's a confusion that incites fear. What is a clown, what is their purpose, why are they dressed that way, why are they doing what they are doing? Their attire, make-up, the entire package can swing from ridiculous to sinister for these people. I get it now. That is what the Amish do to me. It's a confusion that scares the hell out of me.

The thought of dinner surrounded by the Amish makes me hyperventilate. I'll do it for him, because I dig the guy and love him even more but, eeksters. I am currently trying to find out exactly where we will be eating so I can view the menu. Then I'd like to check out photos on Flickr, maybe get an idea of what this place is like probably from a photographer who isn't as freaked out by them as I am. Then I'd like to spend the rest of day calmly walking through a casual scenario in my head: walking into the settlement, okay, I see Amish, don't count, breathe, baby steps, menu, order, breath, keep hydrated, focus on boyfriend.....

It's a confusion that incites fear. What is a clown, what is their purpose, why are they dressed that way, why are they doing what they are doing? Their attire, make-up, the entire package can swing from ridiculous to sinister for these people. I get it now.

Stay out of Williamsburg.

Teehee...

Going to try the Schnitzelbank in Jasper,IN instead. Looks very promising!

So where are people talking about the Indiana religious freedom bullshit?

Seconded

I'm still perplexed as to why Indiana's passing of the law has started a nationwide uproar that didn't happen when 19 other states passed virtually the same law. They all suck, of course, but is there some reason in particular people picked NOW to get angry about it?

Good question. I dunno, context? I have no idea, but how many of those states have anti-discrimination laws on the book that trump the religious freedom laws? For example, Illinois I think has a religious freedom law, but it also illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, which trumps the former.

The North Carolina law in progress seems even even more onerous. It barely even defines the basis of objection as a hunch or bad vibe or whatever. Religion has almost not explicit role.

And of course, almost every place of business has a sign hanging already that says they have the right to refuse service for any reason, so who knows what this all means.

Timing, I would guess. Same-sex marriage is such a foregone conclusion that this kind of shit just seems like desperate, backwards people clinging to their bigotry as hard as possible.

Ha, my post is half typo. I blame the Plead the 5th Imperial Stout.

Having lived down the street from Indiana my whole life, and having had family in a small-town farming community there, I think it's not that Indiana is so conservative, it's that there is more likely to be controversy within the state about it, and that gets good ratings. Hoosiers pride themselves on being friendly and they generally are! Then they have this stupid law where it's okay to not want gays' money. Like I said, it will make for good tv.

Hoosiers pride themselves on being friendly and they generally are!

As are most racists, homophobes, etc.

http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/-welcome-to-indiana-the-mississippi-of-the-midwest--4e8e9.png

otm - this is exactly my experience having spent lots of time in tx and tn, both places full of seemingly pleasant not-so-secret bigots, homophobes, and misogynists.

according to this the indiana law is somewhat different? idk.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/what-makes-indianas-religious-freedom-law-different/388997/

xps

is there some reason in particular people picked NOW to get angry about it?

My guess is the priorities are changing in the LGBT community. As Josh said, the SCOTUS is giving every indication that all the laws banning same-sex marriage will be struck down as unconstitutional. Up until recently that took precedence. Now more resources can be shifted to this front. Indiana is the target because it meets the requirement for being new news, not old news.

the Indiana law is different!

In the other states the government can't infringe on a person's "religious liberty." Indiana's law sez "persons" can't do the infringing.

^^ that explains it!

It was strange how the HIV outbreak/needle exchange in SE Indiana happened nearly simultaneously.

Dennis Perrin is from IN:

Hard to believe that Obama carried Indiana in '08. Mushrooms?

On how the Indiana law is different: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/what-makes-indianas-religious-freedom-law-different/388997/

Yup, call all destroyer posted that link already. It's a good summation though, I think.

Yeah, now that I understand the differences, it makes total sense.

Shit just got real:

@Wilco
We are canceling our May 7 show at the Murat in Indianapolis. The “Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act” feels like thinly disguised legal discrimination to us. Hope to get back to the Hoosier State someday soon, when this odious measure is repealed. Refunds available at point of purchase.

Well shoot, I've already posted that Brian Henneman song in this thread.

Hoos should change his dn

I'm cancelling my christmas visit

Just because Illinois has no such law is no reason for Wilco to be typically superior toward their neighbor state's conservatism. Only someone from Illinois would blame an entire state for this bad law. Get a clu, Illinois - you're a farm state too. Maybe someone should boycott you for your lack of humility.

If anything bad karmically happens to Indiana because of this, I'll blame Illinois. IME Illinoisans are much bigger unapologetic jerks. Clean up your own state first!

can't believe mitch daniels is the president of a university now

The thing that sucks about the Wilco thing is that most if not all of the people going to that show are probably as against the law as the band is.

Oh no, the Midwesterners are having a intradisagreement now. How long will it be now for an Iowan to come along and offer a slice of his husband's World Famous Rhubarb Pie as a token of friendly kinship.

XP "against the law IN QUESTION"

is rhubarb pie midwestern? because I fucking love it.

Illinois does have a similar law, but it also has - as do most of those others states save maybe Texas - an anti-discrimination law as counterbalance, which Pence has stressed is not remotely going to happen in IN.

And come on man, Indiana has been paying for billboards up here for months taunting Illinois.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8C-lxTJTcRM/U3wwZaSEP1I/AAAAAAAAWk4/F1MUjsnnmoM/s1600/Still%2BAnnoyed.jpg
http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/IBJ-Print/IBJ-Forefront/roob-billboard.jpg
Punks had it coming.

I suspect the Wilco cancellation is largely symbolic. They did it to help amplify the opposition, not to hurt Indiana.

are they taking a stand by dressing like their idea of homos?

Gonna say ... no.
http://popinprogress.glamour.it/files/2012/05/Jeff-Tweedy-Wilco-Sound-Check-Music-Blog.jpg

I'm still "Illinoised." I'd boycott this shithole - the Mississippi of the north - for the damage it's corruption and bloat do to poor people, but I can't. I live here.

I understand what Wilco is doing, but people in Illinois feel superior all of the time. Indianapolis is not as RW as the outsiders up north think it is.

Boycotts of this sort are a good way to spread fear and doubt into the non-fundamentalist business community, which HATES the idea of losing money they might be making. The main trouble is that such a boycott wouldn't touch the rural communities much. If it spreads to boycotting automobiles made in Indiana, then watch out!

Also I really think more people would vote Democrat if the Democrats in places like Illinois weren't so corrupt! Democrats hurt the causes they claim to defend with their own corruption - I have heard Midwest Republicans say so!

xp no more subarus

I can picture the portlandia bit where Carrie and Fred are buying a Forrester but then see the "made in Indiana" sticker

Yeah, them Dems and their corruption. I read somewhere that the best way to cut down on corruption is just to cut taxes.

bit doesn't really work with the hummer plant

Handy guide to some state boycotts, effects:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/will-the-indiana-boycott-work/

Jonah Goldberg just said after winning the gay marriage battle the gay rights lobby re the Indiana law wants to "shoot the wounded."

aw c'mon. let them have at least a little hate c'mon. don't be mean.

From that fivethirtyeight.com article:

On Monday, legislative leaders in Indiana said they would amend the new law to make it clear that it does not permit discrimination against gay and lesbian couples. It’s not clear yet, however, what those changes will be...

I hope they do so quickly, before the anti-gay forces can rally a call-in campaign.

The funny thing is that some are 'not going to go to Indiana' now are people that wouldn't go to Indiana unless they had to anyway.

I just hope that this shit blows up so big it ends up screwing Dan Coats and Mike Pence within the state.

and outside of the state

http://freedomindiana.org/Subaru/

Typical RFRA laws and how Indiana's goes beyondo, or could be used to do so:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/03/30/why-no-one-understands-indianas-new-religious-freedom-law/

lol at Illinoyed signs.

What do they have on the eastern side of the state, "Say BYE to oHIo"?

David French says you leftists are hysterical.

This bigotry has a purpose. It serves to demonize the last significant constituency standing in the way of sexual revolution radicalism. After all, unless you demonize your opposition, the general public will have little appetite for forcing Christians to pay for abortion pills, forcing Christian groups to open up to atheist leadership, or forcing Christian bakers or photographers to help celebrate events they find morally offensive. After all, there’s no clamor for requiring Kosher delis to stock pork or requiring gay lawyers to represent the Westboro Baptist Church. While RFRAs protect people of all faiths, from peyote-smoking Native Americans to Bible-toting florists, the Left’s outrage is narrowly targeted — against the Christian people whose livelihoods they seek to ruin, whose consciences they seek to appropriate, and whose organizations they seek to disrupt. #BoycottIndiana isn’t a cry for freedom. It’s nothing more than an online mob, seeking to bully those it hates.

requiring gay lawyers to represent the Westboro Baptist Church

What about the non-murdering lawyers required to publicly defend murderers?

Luke 16:13 ESV
No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

It's pretty clear that these businesses and the governor have made their choice by siding with money.

Props to Wilco. This is the most interesting thing they have done imo.

david french needs to STFU

xp how have the businesses and governor sided with money? by inciting a boycott?

i don't understand how someone can not see this as a basic human rights issue. if a florist can decline to provide flowers for a gay wedding, can a restauranteur decline to serve an interracial couple?

i admit i know very little about the legal reasoning for these laws. am i missing something?

It's amazing how the word "Freedom" is in the law too. So Orwellian.

Yeah, it's like "Right to Work." Who can be anti-freedom?

"Siding with money" meaning legitimizing persecution by moneyed and influential non-people ("The definition of "person" [in the legislation] includes religious institutions, businesses and associations.") and de-legitimizing the interests of real people.

Is there a legitimate use for this? Everything I have read, not once has anyone stated a practical application aside from discrimination.

i guess the thing to remember is that a lot of people don't think of sexual freedom as a basic human right

I don't know what the legal reasoning is, because legally it seems so unreasonable. It just seems like opponents being dicks just to complicate or slow the inevitable, not unlike the insane restrictions being placed on abortion at local/state levels because they were making no headway at the national level. Oh, you're recognizing the rights of gay people? Well, we have rights, too!

Fortunately it looks like similarly beyond the pale laws in Georgia and North Carolina have at least temporarily stalled. The latter ... hoo, boy, was it audacious. Check out this winner that had been stuck in there:

Exercise of religion. – The practice or observance of religion. It includes, but is not limited to, the ability to act or refuse to act in a manner substantially motivated by one's sincerely held religious beliefs, whether or not the exercise is compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief.

So the NC religious freedom bill was organized religion-optional!

i admit i know very little about the legal reasoning for these laws. am i missing something?

― the late great,

Freedom!

Insofar as this kind of law (mainly the federal version) protects individuals and minorities against discrimination by governments---vs. the observance of religious holidays, the wearing of headscarves, etc---there's a legitimate function. Insofar as it allows non-governmental actors, like merchants, to make second-class citizens out of individuals and groups, with religion as an alibi --well, that's what some say the Indiana law allows, and perhaps encourages. late great, those articles I linked clarified some of this for me (and the WaPo piece compares the Indiana-type laws to the limits of the Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision).

but srsly this is the latest and perhaps last gasp of the anti-homo movement. It knows it has lost and probably will lose before SCOTUS in June. These state legislature are all they got. Which is why Dems consistently suck at playing the long game. They don't give a shit about local politics until their paymasters at Apple et al. get miffed

Cool so we can just start our own religions and ignore federal laws?

Never thought republicans would be the ones leading us towards anarchy but this is funny.

i kind of see this as a byproduct of confusion around the nature and function of individual conscience, after repeated extensions of the idea. once you had pharmacists and whoever insisting on refusing to sell birth control, and (around here) muslim cab drivers insisting on refusing to transport alcohol or dogs, it must have started seeming like a bandwagon kind of thing, esp. in america - 'well then WE ALL GOT OUR BONES TO PICK, religious ones!' etc

- makes it easy to exploit for cynical/political purposes, because after all you're gonna find a lotta people who are iffy on what exactly would be going on when a person claimed a ~very important religious value~ made them not able to in good conscience do something

© ilx poster ryan-esque answer

From Alfred's quote of David French:

forcing Christian bakers or photographers to help celebrate events they find morally offensive

Taking photographs of people doing things is not the same as celebrating those acts. Ask any journalistic photographer who covers a war. All you are doing is recording what is in front of your camera. In the case of a professional wedding photographer, he or she is being paid to point a camera, make sure the settings are correct for a good exposure, and to compose a pleasing arrangement of people or objects in the frame. If you don't want to photograph weddings, then don't photograph any weddings. Otherwise, keep your opinions of the celebrants to yourself.

Baking a cake that will be eaten some other time, by someone else, somewhere else has nothing to do with celebrating whatever occasion might accompany that eating. The only thing that makes a wedding cake a wedding cake is that it is taken to a wedding and eaten there. As the baker, this is none of your business. Your business is baking a fucking cake and getting paid for it. What happens next is moot.

From the way the RRW talks about these things, you'd think the baker was being asked to consecrate communion wafers or the photographer was being asked to officiate at the ceremony or sign the marriage certificate, instead of their being commercial adjuncts hired to do a perfectly secular job.

ah but do we not all share in celebrating sacraments, if they be true

Can't wait to see what happens should someone non-Christian dare attempt to invoke this new law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/30/indiana-marijuana-church_n_6970028.html

well, SCOTUS recently affirmed the right of a Muslim in prison to grow a beard.

½ inch beard!

I imagine not every employee at the offended businesses feel this way, what about the person working at a cake shop that doesn't discriminate? Must they bow to the religious authority of their employers? Isn't that a little insane?

I hate all this talk about cake. Cake sucks.

like, gay and straights should form this anti-cake alliance

gods gonna smite you

in favor of pies?

in favor of rhubarb pies?

Must they bow to the religious authority of their employers? Isn't that a little insane?

― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, March 31, 2015 3:38 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

technically speaking that was what United States v Lee's ruling was specifically prohibiting, though SCOTUS's latest interpretation of RFRA further muddies those waters

tarts >> pies >> cakes

This is especially baffling cos the one or two times I went to church the only thing I remember is they made a big deal about giving out free bread and how it was such a cool thing Jesus did. How is that different from serving cake? What is wrong with people? They spend literally every weekend re-enacting the time their savior GAVE THEM FOOD.

unless you believe in transubstantiation

xp need more tarts in my life tbh. think I've only had a tart at a buffet.

xp how have the businesses and governor sided with money? by inciting a boycott?

― Team Foxcatcherwatcher (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, March 30, 2015 9:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This and the Hobby Lobby case are both examples of the disturbing trend of bestowing religious qualities on corporations. It is telling that the governor signed this bill in a private ceremony closed off from press and the public. This bill is meant to serve private interests over those of the public.

It is a very dangerous trend to ascribe religious rights to corporations imo. For one thing it is anti-democracy; Christians overwhelmingly dominate in politics, and corporations have a much greater sphere of influence over politics than the average individual citizen. And both are well-accustomed to using self-victimization to consolidate power.

well-put

http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/nascar-joins-the-ranks-against-indianas-new-anti-lgbt-law

If NASCAR has turned against Indiana this shit is over

Cake sucks.

jesus, and you like karaoke

my name is Alfred

@BryanJFischer
Indiana will soon find it is impossible to satisfy the homosexual lobby. They will immediately be back for more. And more.

hott

another Chuck Tingle tingler!

always back for more cake

NASCAR and Ron Swanson.

Arkansas is next. Woo!

I love Indiana with all my heart, and I want to live there once I get the money. I think Indiana can change, which is more than you can say about a lot of other states can say. Progressives in Indiana think it can change, too. But change requires actual commitment and work, not just blaming people while sitting on your ass. Quality of life is still much superior to life in Illinois, where you can witness corrupt Democrats who are truly clueless about class, environmental and poverty issues. In Indiana we have a good base to work with. I'd rather commit to turning Midwest states blue than bitch and whine while accomplishing nothing.

ftw

Pence's backpedal begins...now

I'm not going to throw any stones from this glass house I'm in, but you're killin' me IML.

I like indiana when I go home now. it's nice to see so much sky in every direction while playing lawn darts in an actual grass yard.

#JustIndianaThings

kinda hated Chicago when last there because we waited 2 hours to skate along some sort of ice ribbon in a park.

so IML otm I guess

land of rhubarb unbridled

^^ your memoir title

posthumous memoir title. i will be killed by a lawn dart.

http://i.imgur.com/uq88ZrR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nQZwyC7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Pax9SxU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u01wNU3l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cAOlElg.jpg

making a quilt of those images to wrap my son in so that he'll understand

Here's what I remember most from my time in Indiana:

http://i.imgur.com/CrUc0Fc.jpg

follow your arrow, man

I don't get it, so many lights and I only get to obey one?

guy from Girls that's in new Star Wars knew which signal was his
http://www.visitmishawaka.com/INFO/clientImages/MHSphoto.gif

Ed Kilgore's worth a read.

A pizzeria in Walkerton becomes the first.

A small-town pizza shop is saying they agree with Governor Pence and the signing of the controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

The O'Connor family, who owns Memories Pizza, says they have a right to believe in their religion and protect those ideals.

“If a gay couple came in and wanted us to provide pizzas for their wedding, we would have to say no,” says Crystal O'Connor of Memories Pizza.

She and her family are standing firm in their beliefs.

The O'Connor's have owned Memories Pizza in Walkerton for 9 years.

It's a small-town business, with small-town ideals.

“We are a Christian establishment,” says O'Connor.

The O'Connor family prides themselves in owning a business that reflects their religious beliefs.

“We're not discriminating against anyone, that's just our belief and anyone has the right to believe in anything,” says O'Connor.

So, when Governor Pence signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act into law, the family was not disappointed.

“We definitely agree with the bill,” says O'Connor.

Refusing to serve a gay couple isn't discrimination, see.

Ok. So I had heard of Kentuckiana, but there's a Michiana too?

Welcome to Indiana: Sharing the Border With a Few Other States and Practicing Religious Freedom Since 2015

Terry and Maureen McFadden, Michiana's only brother and sister news team

the o'connor's

anyone has the right to believe in anything,” says O'Connor.

...

“That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual. They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” says Kevin O'Connor.

"Choose." Also, selling someone (everyone) a fucking pizza is not being beat over the head.

Man must be an awesome God you serve if you have to do things like refuse processed cheese to gay couples to avoid pissing him off.

ok in seriousness though I mean I dunno that the Fundies I went to church with would even be this nutso. Religious folks kinda acting like the anti-vaxx folks where it's like "Hmm, well I guess it could be ok to y'know, serve gay people, but there's this really small chance that the moment the cash changes hands that God will strike his thunderous wrath, so y'know, better err on the side of caution".

MOst of my Christian friends are pro-gay marriage so I'm really confused at these pockets of people.

Yes last year there was a megachurch in GA where the head pastor came out and there was massive support from the community. This isn't mainstream Christianity this is Religious Extremism. Which is something I thought we were supposed to fear? Isn't that part of why we are always blowing up the middle east?

Every Indiana establishment now serves weddings in order to justify their hate. "Why should my Christian bait and tackle shop have to supply the bait and tackle for a gay wedding?"

lol

i would go to that wedding

Honestly at " I choose to be heterosexual" reporter should have just made "O RLY?" face and walked away.

Sadly he did not choose to be a jerk that was something he was born with.

I'm imagining there being this big red alarm in Heaven that goes off any time a gay couple touches a wedding cake and God waking up pissed.

what it really boils down to are many of these extremely Conservative Christians are just upset at their narrowing sphere of influence in the country when in reality some of the "rights" they feel they've lost should never have been granted to them in the first place.

tho they don't understand the concept of "strict scrutiny" either so

LOL

http://s3-media3.fl.yelpassets.com/bphoto/EKqgNa14Wa4PhpV-DEq8ng/l.jpg

So we got this news

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/04/01/indiana-rfra-deal-sets-limited-protections-for-lgbt/70766920/

ILX has eaten two of my attempts to post here but I'll give it another shot. Briefly, I boomeranged pretty quickly from knee-jerk 'burn the whole state to the ground' disgust towards this legislation to astonishment and pride over the booming opposition. I grew up in the midst of a lot of unfortunate bigotry and general small-mindedness (and god knows it's still pervasive, particularly in the southern part of the state) but I've also seen Indiana make a lot of progress over the years. I was just marveling the other day about the number of people who went to my small, rural high school and who have subsequently come out and are still living in the same general area. I cannot imagine that situation being in any way tolerable twenty years ago. I have no desire to ever move back, but I appreciate feeling like I don't have to hate and distance myself from Indiana.

I hear ya, O.L.

I don't want to pat my fellow Arkansans too hard on the back today. I look back on some of my past "Well, the state might be blood red, but there's like at least a dozen of us who meet for coffee every Tuesday," posts with twinges of regret. We took more than just a few steps backward yesterday, but –

I am inspired by the Arkansas folk who put up this installation on the steps of our Capitol:

http://i.imgur.com/DB89jrG.jpg

Or the Arkansans who lined the halls and yelled "Shame on you!" at the legislators who walked through them:

http://i.imgur.com/4hoIaZW.jpg

Or even the woman on the left who was a national name in the political arena long before the guy up on the wall was:

http://i.imgur.com/dVUyR8f.jpg

(Dr. Jocelyn Elders, former U.S. Surgeon General, under the portrait of Skinny Mike Huckabee)

The crazy people got their way, but quite honestly, I don't think they'd be interested in pulling the same stunt again.

I guess Republicans have been so vocal about Sharia Law invading the US because they wanted to do it here first.

Though wait

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/04/01/govt-and-business-leaders-object-to-ark-religion-bill/70757942/

Repeal these altogether. I do not want to have to join The Church of Walmart when I am 70 and need a job.

The public outcries in both states to these legislations has been a welcome surprise. Not that I didn't know that there would be pockets of people in both states that would feel that way but more than I expected.

maybe we're finally nearing the time when martyr-complexing doesn't carry the weight it used to

Don't understand how you can call yourself a Christian and be for denying people food. That's like the main thing Jesus did!

Not deny people food, but giving it out.

Bible has lots in it about not being lazy, maybe all employees should work 20 hour days.

Is anyone organizing Indiana businesses not run by bigots? It would be nice to isolate the bigots - to see one hateful pizzeria surrounded by shops and restaurants with uniform "everyone welcome" signs.

Folks actually in favor of these bills seem to be a crazy confluence of "gay marriage = endtimes" zealots, and anti-government types of the opinion that any business owner should be able to refuse service for any reason because it's THEIR business.

I agree the huge outpouring of criticism has been surprising, and when it's not just "Hollywood types" but CEOs, it's really heartening to me. Quite honestly I feel that people like that pizza family upthread are a very small minority. There are plenty of Indiana businesses not on board with this imo.

Indiana "turning blue" will not keep the American population from doing so this century

So Tweedy cancelled a show in Indianapolis, punishing his fans for living in a city which does have anti-sexual discrimination laws, because it's in a state which doesn't.

The Arkansas bill explicitly raises religious concerns(in the business sense) over everything else, incl. civil rights.

Don Allred ‏@0wlred

The Supreme Court's expected ruling on gay marriage won't be enough. We need an updated Civil Rights Act ( ditto Voting Rights Act btw).
0 retweets 0 favorites
6:30 PM -

um cancelling the show is good, not bad, it's the message that counts right now

good publicity

So Tweedy cancelled a show in Indianapolis, punishing his fans

Most played:
Chicago (63)
SF Bay Area (9)
Los Angeles (8)
New York (8)
Denver (7)

http://www.songkick.com/artists/490682-jeff-tweedy

Oh yeah, and Kansas hasn't gotten enough attention: Gov. Sam Brownback removed anti- gay bias protection from state hiring regulations.

Just go to Louisville it's less than 2 hours away.

Or take Megabus and it's less than $12 round trip.

just go to the slippery noodle instead

from the memories pizza yelp page

The liberals ask for tolerance and give none. I hate you more than ISIS.
Great pizza.

"the liberals just don't tolerate our stupid bigoted beliefs, what hypocrites"

My wife is speaking at a conference in Indiana next week and suddenly our state has stopped paying for any travel to Indiana. The conference was already paying travel and lodging, and angry and embarrassed conference organizers contacted her today and said they'd cover the per diem that her university was no longer going to pay for. I'm curious what the vibe at the conference is going to be like.

The law is now "fixed," but a law professor explains the basic employment etc law problems still in place, pretty much across most(or a lot) of the USA:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/04/02/indiana_religious_freedom_law_the_fix_still_doesn_t_protect_gay_hoosiers.html?wpsrc=fol_tw

@BryanJFischer
The pizzeria owners are the new Anne Frank. Hiding in a house in fear for their lives.

lol what

Hiding in fear until the check for half a million comes from wingnuttia

http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/3/8339383/indiana-memories-pizza-religious-freedom-crowdfunding-campaign

ah yes, these Anne Frank like situations all play out the same way

tbf Anne Frank got some really mean Yelp reviews

Now the gays are going to go to some other pizza place to cater their wedding.

i am opposed to pizza marriage.

next thing you know pizzas will be marrying calzones, think of the children

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1484956/henry_betty_fite.jpg

Wilco uncanceled their show today.

I love how so many of the people in their comments say things along the lines of "politics and music shouldn't mix" and I'm like WHERE HAVE YOU LIVED FOR THE LAST MILLION YEARS?

I love how so many of the people in their comments say things along the lines of "politics and music shouldn't mix" and I'm like WHERE HAVE YOU LIVED FOR THE LAST MILLION YEARSARE THE NEW PROTEST SINGERS?

Haha everyone already cancelled their babysitters and now the Wilco show is back on? Some teens are gonna be so pissed.

Did Wilco explain why they are un-cancelling? Is money just too important to let go?

My guess was that they are only punishing their fans, who likely don't support these laws anyways.

But won't the money their fans spend that night go into the local economy and end up in the coffers of oppressive state power?

Perhaps they uncanceled because the law got sligtly rewritten?

The official statement:

We consider the changes to Indiana’s RFRA a good first step toward creating the sort of welcoming environment we encourage everywhere, so we’re reinstating our May 7 show at The Murat, which we canceled earlier this week. To quote an Indiana University statement from yesterday, "religious liberty and equal protection under the law are both cornerstones of our democracy and they should not be in conflict with each other.” Well said, IU.

Now for the practical stuff: Tickets purchased through Ticketmaster or The Murat are still valid. If you purchased your ticket during the Wilcoworld pre-sale, you will be contacted directly regarding repurchase. If your plans have changed for whatever reason or if you no longer want to attend the show, refunds are available at your point of purchase.

We’ve been putting on shows with our neighbors in Indiana for more than 20 years and are happy to continue that at the Murat in May. We'll also donate a portion of the proceeds from this show to organizations fighting to build on the progress we hope this change makes in Indiana and beyond. More details soon.
Love, Wilco

I left Indiana in 1982 and haven't lived there since. Is the coast clear? https://t.co/NNXlKiPXdk

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) March 22, 2019

my spouse had to visit indiana this week for work and saw a confederate flag within five minutes of leaving the airport

stay the fuck away from indiana, is my advice

sometimes you have to run for President just to get out of the place

If pretty much all of my family didn't live there, I would drive out of my way to avoid ever crossing the state line.

I hadn’t been there in decades but moved back to Michigan recently and had to pass through the NW corner to get to Chicago last year. The gas station I stopped at had a shit ton of Trump / Jesus / US /Confederate flag bumper stickers and only sold beer warm in what appeared to be a state-mandated attempt to shame you. Then you get to go through the reeking dystopian industrial carnage around Gary.

And still everyone seems to complain way more about Ohio

only because most people gave up on indiana long ago

giving up on ohio is probably also a good idea, indiana is the ohio of the future. the place to put in the effort is the near south imo, let the midwest rot

My hometown, once a bustling mini-metropolis of which my grandparents had nearly unrecognizable photographic evidence, is well on its way to full Mad Max-ification. I'm stunned every time I return by the increasing number of homes with collapsing roofs or just, like, big hunks of exterior wall missing altogether. Hoosier pride!

there are still plenty of good people in states like indiana, ohio, missouri

those people should get out of those states as soon as they can. even if you have to go to illinois, illinois has most of the same problems plus a notoriously corrupt chicago machine, but man indiana, ohio, missouri, they're in death spirals, their leadership are making decisions that are going to, in the long term, accelerate their decline, and there is little to no prospect of that changing until the states have completely collapsed.

lol you make me look like an optimist

there's a good mayoral candidate running in Bloomington IN (Amanda Barge)

Someone should really airlift Bloomington to a more promising state already.

I’m in Indiana for a few days now. It’s as lame as ever.

If you're looking for some kicks, go get your senior picture taken with your arm draped across the bed of our pickup. It's the in thing to do.

Indiana has good corn and those amish restaurants that serve bright yellow noodles

and crafts for sale with unlicensed professional sports teams logos

lots of franchised restaurants = lots of american dreams dreamt

each city has 3 breweries instead of the standard 30

Someone should really airlift Bloomington to a more promising state already.

― The First Time Ever I Fly @ U Face (Old Lunch)

fuck no it's a great racket

you live in indiana for four years and get a cheap and good education, and then as soon as you get your degree and are employable you get the fuck out of there and get hired without having a billion dollars in student loans to pay off

source: i am an iu grad

there's a good mayoral candidate running in Bloomington IN (Amanda Barge)

― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve)

that's good. Indiana needs to just get rid of its whole Democratic party on a state level, they're so awful and incompetent

"each city has 3 breweries instead of the standard 30

― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton)"

excuse me, saying that indiana doesn't have breweries is just factually wrong, fuckin' three floyds is out of there

no, it doesn't have as many breweries as, say, oregon, but quantity isn't the same thing as quality

like i said, there are good people in indiana.

Breaking Away is a damn good movie

pigeon shits in ref's eyes

indianapolis is a nice town.

boring and kindof sad though

man too much coastal elitism shitting up this thread, come on people we're pretty much all old, do you really want to go to three different parties in a night? if not, indianapolis isn't actually "boring" or lacking in culture or any of that shit. oh no indianapolis only has 500 independent locally owned restaurants instead of five million, how could anybody live in such a cultural backwater? god as much as i try to shit on indiana it does have cool and innovative art collectives like big car and good shit going on and people trying to survive and enjoy life despite being constantly strangled by megachurches and racists and people who call their wives "mother".

i'm glad i don't have to live there anymore, but shit, chain restaurants? like there's any city in america that isn't choked to the gills with chain restaurants? it's not a question of whether or not i'd live there if you paid me me to, because you get paid a lot more to live on the coasts, it's a question of it doesn't cost hardly anything to live there, just like it doesn't cost hardly anything to live in alabama or mississippi. people don't want to leave because it's the only home they've ever known, people don't want to leave because they can't afford it. and having to live with all of the horrible people, in a land owned and controlled by horrible people, twists you, it's hard work not to be like them, at least if you have the same color skin as they do.

yeah, i'm glad i could get out. i was lucky.

Largely otm but this inner conflict you're manifesting is very Hoosier imo. I know of what I speak.

At any rate, I don't by any means dis the people as a whole (many/most of my favorite people in the world still reside there) but the dis-worthy people are most of the reason I'm glad to not be there anymore.

Indiana wants me/Lord I can't go back there

OL: Right, I have lots of feelings on the topic, and most of them I'm not comfortable discussing on the public Internet.

I saw a truck on fire this morning on the way to the South Bend airport. So it’s not all boring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcPgddNVqpc

xp i once saw an elephant ear food trailer burning down in a 7eleven parking lot in indiana

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZWU2YzIxNGMtNzEyMC00NGY1LTgxZmItOGNkOTM5MTI3NjYwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjgyNjc4MTc@._V1_.jpg

Really great movie - probably my fave of last year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xddh70XyDTw

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/14/779339897/3-indiana-judges-suspended-after-white-castle-brawl-that-left-2-of-them-wounded

Watching judges brawl at a White Castle kind of is the apex of Hoosier fun, it's true.

Mike Pence and Pete Buttigieg remind me why I left Indiana in 1982 and never moved back.

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) February 27, 2020

had a wife and kids in Terre Haute, Jack
I went out for a ride and I never went back