― Gra C. Nole, Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:49 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:51 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:52 (8 years ago) Permalink
― lukey (Lukey G), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:52 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:26 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:28 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:28 (8 years ago) Permalink
my guess is that in his warped and desperate mind he thought he would impress the cubans and soviets by killing kennedy, whose administration was ordering attempts on castro's life. he had unsuccessfully attempted a month earlier in mexico city to get a visa to cuba, and even allegedly offered a representative (at the soviet embassy if i remember correctly) to kill kennedy.
there are several other strands of evidence and counter-evidence though, and it gets really murky and complicated. depending oon who you believe oswald may have even been manipulated by both pro-castro and castro agents for various reasons, which may or may not have been related to the assassination. who knows?
but the evidence suggests oswald mostly likely killed kennedy, whatever his motivations.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:50 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:19 (8 years ago) Permalink
― briania (briania), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:25 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:27 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:28 (8 years ago) Permalink
From the Onion
― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:30 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:31 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:32 (8 years ago) Permalink
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:32 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:33 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:35 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:35 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Huk-L, Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:40 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:43 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:44 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Huk-L, Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:47 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:51 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:25 (8 years ago) Permalink
― andy, Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:02 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:08 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:25 (8 years ago) Permalink
http://www.prouty.org/nixon.html
George Bush Sr. was working for the CIA at the time, dealing with cubans, but that's another story.
I love me some conspiracy theories.
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:22 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:33 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:41 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:43 (8 years ago) Permalink
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:29 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 9 October 2004 15:04 (8 years ago) Permalink
Former Texas first lady Connally dies
By Kelley Shannon, Associated Press WriterSeptember 2, 2006
AUSTIN, Texas -- Nellie Connally, the former Texas first lady who was riding in President Kennedy's limousine when he was assassinated, has died, a family friend said Saturday. The 87-year-old was the last living person who had been part of that fateful Dallas drive.
Connally, the widow of former Gov. John Connally, died late Friday of natural causes at an Austin assisted living center, said Julian Read, who served as the governor's press secretary in the 1960s.
As the limousine carrying the Connallys and the Kennedys wound its way through the friendly crowd in downtown Dallas, Nellie Connally turned to President Kennedy, who was in a seat behind her, and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you."
Almost immediately, she heard the first of what she later concluded were three gunshots in quick succession. A wounded John Connally slumped after the second shot, and, "I never looked back again. I was just trying to take care of him," she said.
She later said the most enduring image of that day was the bloodstained roses.
"It's the image of yellow roses and red roses and blood all over the car ... all over us," she said in a 2003 interview with The Associated Press. "I'll never forget it. ... It was so quick and so short, so potent."
Read said Connally had been sitting at her desk writing thank-you notes when she died.
"She has been extremely active and vital the past few days and weeks," he said. "It's a shock to all of us."
In 2003, she published a photo-filled book -- "From Love Field: Our Final Hours with President John F. Kennedy" -- based on 22 pages of handwritten notes she compiled about a week after the assassination and rediscovered in 1996.
Texas Gov. Rick Perry called Connally "the epitome of graciousness."
"Long before she was propelled into the national spotlight from the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, she was a Texas icon," Perry said in a statement.
Connally, formerly Nellie Brill, met her husband at the University of Texas in Austin, and they married on Dec. 21, 1940.
John Connally managed several political campaigns for fellow Texan Lyndon B. Johnson, including his 1964 presidential campaign. Connally was elected Texas governor as a Democrat in 1962 and won re-election twice, serving three two-year terms.
He was treasury secretary in the Nixon administration and ran for president as a Republican in 1980, when Ronald Reagan was elected. John Connally died in 1993.
Nellie Connally helped raise money for many charities. In 1989, Richard Nixon, Barbara Walters and Donald Trump turned out for a gala to honor her and raise money for diabetes research.
"I've never known a woman with Nellie's courage, compassion and character," Walters said. "For all her ups and downs, I've never heard a self-pitying word from her."
John and Nellie Connally suffered financial difficulties after he left office. Private business ventures after 1980 were less successful than John Connally's career as a politician and dealmaking Houston lawyer. An oil company in which he invested got into trouble, and $200 million worth of real estate projects went sour, and he ended up filing for bankruptcy.
Nellie Connally served on the Board of Visitors of The University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center since 1984, and a fund in her name raised millions for research and patient programs. The Houston hospital's center for breast cancer also is named for Connally, a survivor of the disease for more than 15 years.
About a year ago, Connally moved back to Austin after decades in Houston.
Survivors include her daughter, Sharon Connally Ammann, two sons, John B. Connally III and Mark Connally, eight grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren.
Funeral services are pending. She is to be buried near her late husband in the Texas State Cemetery in Austin.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 20:33 (6 years ago) Permalink
― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 20:36 (6 years ago) Permalink
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 21:14 (6 years ago) Permalink
There was a documentary, maybe a couple of years ago, that pretty convincingly dealt with every doubt/conspiracy theory including the 'magic bullet' one. IIRC it was to do with the fact that the seats at the back were higher than the seats at the front, and that the front of the car was more narrow at the front. Or something. Anyway, by the end of the documentary I was completely won over to the Oswald-acting-along side.
― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 21:18 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 21:29 (6 years ago) Permalink
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 21:59 (6 years ago) Permalink
1. Oswald did it and he was a lone gunman, without any assistance whatsoever.
2. Oswald was a patsy and INSERT CONSPIRACY HERE did it.
Why not
3. Oswald was solely responsible for physically shooting Kennedy, but he was aided/abetted/instructed in doing so by party or parties unknown.
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 22:34 (6 years ago) Permalink
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 22:35 (6 years ago) Permalink
― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 22:43 (6 years ago) Permalink
I've always thought that this was the most likely explanation.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 22:54 (6 years ago) Permalink
― disappointing goth fest line-up (orion), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 23:08 (6 years ago) Permalink
That's kinda what I believe too. With the CIA & FBI knowing all about it, but looking the other way.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 23:22 (6 years ago) Permalink
wasn't like 30 minutes of Stone's JFK spent on this?
― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 23:45 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 14 September 2006 02:29 (6 years ago) Permalink
This documentary (that I mentioned earlier) looked into that as well, and the gist of it was that there had been so many supergrasses over the past 40 years that it was unthinkable that if the mob had been involved the truth wouldn't have come out by now.
― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Thursday, 14 September 2006 08:36 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 14 September 2006 08:40 (6 years ago) Permalink
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. The conspiracy crowd likes to talk about the body count of mysterious deaths associated with the assassination, but what about the body count of just being a mid-level Mafia soldier in the 1960s? Most of those guys were probably dead or in jail by the mid-70s.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 14 September 2006 16:12 (6 years ago) Permalink
― gear (gear), Thursday, 14 September 2006 16:18 (6 years ago) Permalink
so did Oswald
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 14 September 2006 21:28 (6 years ago) Permalink
So then, why did Jack Ruby whack Oswald?
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 14 September 2006 21:37 (6 years ago) Permalink
― gear (gear), Thursday, 14 September 2006 21:45 (6 years ago) Permalink
― gear (gear), Thursday, 14 September 2006 21:47 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 14 September 2006 21:50 (6 years ago) Permalink
There's a fair amount of errors in Case Closed though, which make it about as useful as the pro-conspiracy books. Posner is a dick forever though for his famous post-9/11 "focus and clarity" editorial in the Wall Street Journal where he reversed his opinion on Bush II and came out in support of him.
Still, I would have liked to have seen of his debates with Vincent Bugliosi.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 14 September 2006 22:03 (6 years ago) Permalink
― xave (xave), Thursday, 14 September 2006 22:32 (6 years ago) Permalink
― and what (ooo), Thursday, 14 September 2006 22:41 (6 years ago) Permalink
-- xave (sl...), September 14th, 2006.
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK?
i agree, it's an interesting read.
for me, the most plausible scenario is the one discussed in this book:
Live By the Sword by Gus Russo
it more or less argues for Oswald acting alone, but creates context for his motivations.
here's the forward from the book for good measure.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 14 September 2006 23:42 (6 years ago) Permalink
Kennedy — An Unfinished Life, by Robert Dallek
You could also say much the same about 9/11.
― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Friday, 15 September 2006 14:36 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Friday, 15 September 2006 14:37 (6 years ago) Permalink
The dude defected to the Soviet Union! Do people forget this? Also, some dude he was in the service with thought he was a fake commie working for the CIA to find real ones.
― Really cool, wickedly cool, cooly cool bon apetit! (ex machina), Friday, 15 September 2006 14:47 (6 years ago) Permalink
Kerry Thornley!
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 15 September 2006 16:00 (6 years ago) Permalink
Later, the KGB figured that Oswald acted with potential mob help, and that the CIA and FBI didn't care since Kennedy was out of their hair.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 15 September 2006 16:07 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Friday, 15 September 2006 16:11 (6 years ago) Permalink
Also the dude who wrote a BOOK about Oswald pre assasination!
― Really cool, wickedly cool, cooly cool bon apetit! (ex machina), Friday, 15 September 2006 16:13 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Friday, 15 September 2006 16:15 (6 years ago) Permalink
Well, there's no convincing evidence for string theory, yet, and we're not giving up on that.
Berating conspiracy theorists for lacking evidence has always struck me as rather unscientific. You invent hypotheses and then gather evidence, right?, not the other way around. If you totally disregard hypotheses that lack evidence, no one would ever gather evidence and there'd be a moratorium on new ideas.
It's only been sixty years, and that's nuthin. Sometimes it takes centuries to solve a murder.
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Friday, 15 September 2006 17:06 (6 years ago) Permalink
― gear (gear), Friday, 15 September 2006 17:09 (6 years ago) Permalink
― gear (gear), Friday, 15 September 2006 17:10 (6 years ago) Permalink
however, Squirrel Police OTFM about the scientific method
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 15 September 2006 17:12 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Friday, 15 September 2006 17:27 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 15 September 2006 19:02 (6 years ago) Permalink
45 years ago today
― Chris Barrus (Elvis Telecom), Saturday, 22 November 2008 20:26 (4 years ago) Permalink
white album 40 yrs old vs JFK assassination 45 yrs old POLL
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 22 November 2008 20:34 (4 years ago) Permalink
In re: thread title question. The Warren Commission Report was meant to lay the basis for a national consensus.
Obv it failed in its stated purpose. But it came close enough that it achieved its major unstated purpose, which was to quell the national grief and anger and prevent it from spilling into irrational mob action.
― Aimless, Saturday, 22 November 2008 20:44 (4 years ago) Permalink
JFK was an inside job - wake up, sheeple!
― StanM, Saturday, 22 November 2008 20:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
Or maybe it wasn't and I'm mixing it up with that ninety-one one thing, I'm not sure.
― StanM, Saturday, 22 November 2008 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink
the gunman is shooting from inside his head!
― velko, Saturday, 22 November 2008 20:58 (4 years ago) Permalink
thats deep
― Ant Attack.. (Ste), Saturday, 22 November 2008 21:04 (4 years ago) Permalink
The Wrong Guy, a dark comedy starring Dave Foley, includes a scene of a conspiracy theorist claiming no bullet struck Kennedy, insisting "his head just did that", and calls it "The No Bullet Theory".
― Grady: The Myspacee Password Expert (PappaWheelie V), Saturday, 22 November 2008 21:04 (4 years ago) Permalink
OMG! Years later, people constructed urban legends based on that very JFK fact!
― StanM, Saturday, 22 November 2008 21:42 (4 years ago) Permalink
I forgot that the Weekly World News is no more.
― u s steel, Sunday, 23 November 2008 14:31 (4 years ago) Permalink
this should be a poll
― Kevin Keller, Sunday, 23 November 2008 16:10 (4 years ago) Permalink
― DavidM, Saturday, 14 April 2012 15:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
well, that's certainly something.
― thomp, Saturday, 14 April 2012 15:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
its sad he was presidetn
― j'en ai cache (darraghmac), Saturday, 14 April 2012 15:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
fighting morbid temptation to post on 'ws of shame' thread
― thomp, Saturday, 14 April 2012 15:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
the exit hole is obscured
― I cannot host as my wife hates Walker (latebloomer), Saturday, 14 April 2012 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
what is that photo? it cant be genuine as nobody was that close at that particular moment
― PSOD (Ste), Saturday, 14 April 2012 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
if it weren't for the fact that it occurred during JFK's assassination, that photo would be remembered as the best ass photo for a First Lady.
― onibaba o'reilly (Eisbaer), Saturday, 14 April 2012 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
JFK looks like he's hiding from the wrath of Jackie's ass.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 April 2012 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
― PSOD (Ste), Saturday, April 14, 2012 4:50 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah, this. it doesn't trip any photoshopping wires for me. what's the story? according to google, this image only shows up on tumblrs.
― swaghand (dayo), Saturday, 14 April 2012 20:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think it's fake, prob from a movie set or something?
― swaghand (dayo), Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
I hate that I had to watch the zapruder film again, but by the time jackie is in that position, there's already a secret service dude clinging on the rear
― swaghand (dayo), Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think I see 'spring break 2009' tattooed on her leg
― iatee, Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
jfk would have looked a lot messier than that tbbh
― omar little, Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
man, wikipedia shows too much
― swaghand (dayo), Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
I watched the old James Woods film True Believer last night. The character on whom the main story hinges adamantly believes that AT & T was behind the Kennedy assassination. Yes, it's played for laughs.
― clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
I love that movie.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
could it be a cindy sherman piece?
― same old song and placenta (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 14 April 2012 23:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
that looks like a mannequin of jfk
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Saturday, 14 April 2012 23:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
Onlookers wearing bell bottoms
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
J Kennedy OnASSis
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
― swaghand (dayo), Saturday, April 14, 2012 5:03 PM Bookmark
Yeah, this. I'm thinking of Ant Farm's The Eternal Frame but I don't know that film well enough to be able to conclusively say if this is from that or not.
― Doctor Casino, Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
but it's clearly not the real thing, I mean everybody seems so nonchalant and the people in the background are in bell-bottoms for pete's sake.
― Doctor Casino, Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
They got the Dealey Plaza part right.
But that SS agent looks nothing like Clint Eastwood, sorry try again.
― pplains, Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
the real lee harvey oswald
― buzza, Sunday, 15 April 2012 04:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 15 April 2012 04:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
Is or isn't it fake? Someone get hold of Oliver Stone, we need to get to the mystery of this bottom. I mean, the bottom of this mystery.
― DavidM, Sunday, 15 April 2012 18:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
salon runs these insane jfk conspiracy pieces every month or so. it's pretty hard to fathom why anyone still takes this stuff seriously.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
"Back and to the left, back and to the left, move that ass girl back and to the left"
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
some good stuff here i didn't know. pretty scary imo.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 11:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
Frame from The Eternal Frame, mentioned above. Seems very possible this could be the source of the "mystery jpg." They performed it, I think, 10 or 12 times in one day, on the hour - - so there will inevitably be details that don't match.
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://doughallstudio.com/1975-the-eternal-frame/the-eternal-frame/3261754
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
from recent article on robert caro:
"I get letters, constantly, saying, 'I see your book's coming. I hope you're going to prove in this book that LBJ did it,"' the award-winning and ongoing biographer of Lyndon Johnson says during a recent interview at his midtown Manhattan office. "Did it," as in killed President Kennedy."When I talk at colleges, you can hardly have a lecture or a speech without one of the first questions being, 'Are you going to prove that Johnson did it?' Or, 'Are you going to show that Johnson was involved in it?' And when you say Johnson had nothing to with it, you can feel the audience doesn't accept it. You lose your audience."
"When I talk at colleges, you can hardly have a lecture or a speech without one of the first questions being, 'Are you going to prove that Johnson did it?' Or, 'Are you going to show that Johnson was involved in it?' And when you say Johnson had nothing to with it, you can feel the audience doesn't accept it. You lose your audience."
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 7 May 2012 23:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^^ truly sad assessment IMO.
honestly there are probably more unanswered questions about the lincoln assassination than the JFK assassination.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
blame Ollie Stone and Donald Sutherland.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
it was a national obsession well before that movie, wasn't it?
― some dude, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
ever since rush to judgment at the very least. alot of one star reviews on amazon for the new one due to caro 'covering up lbj's role in the assasination'.
― balls, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:27 (1 year ago) Permalink
"I get letters, constantly, saying, 'I see your book's coming. I hope you're going to prove in this book that LBJ did it,"' the award-winning and ongoing biographer of Lyndon Johnson says during a recent interview at his midtown Manhattan office. "Did it," as in killed President Kennedy.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, May 7, 2012 7:59 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
tbf this would be p rad
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm about three-quarters of the way through Bugliosi's JFK book. (The shorter of the two.) It's not an obsession or anything--I found it cheap and started reading to kill time the same day, kept on going. He's at the other end of the spectrum from the conspiracists: believes Oswald acted completely alone, proceeds from there. So you get detailed accounts of Jack Ruby, patriot, traipsing around Dallas as he works through his extreme grief over the president's assassination.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
i've been reading about it since i was a teenager, and i've never stumbled on anything that convinced me it was anything but a long string of crazy coincidences -- like most other assassinations.
two major points the anti-conspiracists make:
1. the motorcade hadn't initially been scheduled to go through dealey plaza or anywhere else where anyone could have gotten a shot at kennedy, but the route was rescheduled at the last minute at the insistence of texas governor john connally. so in order for there to be a conspiracy, presumably he'd have to be in on it -- which is highly unlikely, since HE was also shot.
2. jack ruby left his dog in the car when he parked outside dallas police HQ, which indicates that he hadn't pre-meditated shooting oswald. (don't worry, someone rescued the dog.)
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
I guess I've been so conditioned to view Ruby as this shadowy, sinister figure that Bugliosi's portrayal of him is jarring. But my own knowledge of whatever happened is based on maybe three or four sources--one of them, yes, Stone's film, which I took as a synthesis of lots of other conspiracy theories--and various stray bits, so for all I know, it's just as valid as the more common version of Ruby.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:25 (1 year ago) Permalink
1. he rescheduled the route specifically for that reason, got shot by accident OR to prove his loyalty to the conspiracy
2. he brought the dog because he knew someone would find it that way and rescue it, he couldn't just leave it locked up at home
DO YOU SEE
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
also i hope caro means "that one crazy guy in the audience" when he says "audience" and not, you know, the audience
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
don't get me wrong, i can totally understand the lasting skepticism about the assassination for ppl who lived through it, espec given the total mindfuck oh-god-is-this-actually-happening weirdness of ruby shooting oswald only two days later. but it's telling that so much conspiracy theory seems to rely way heavily on a sentimentalized version of JFK as the dude who was gonna save us all (rather than as the practical politico and seasoned cold war guy he was).
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
jack ruby left his dog in the car when he parked outside dallas police HQ, which indicates that he hadn't pre-meditated shooting oswald. (don't worry, someone rescued the dog.)
I love the bit in Slacker with the Conspiracy A-Go-Go guy who won't stop talking about Ruby's dog.
― Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 03:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
it was like Murder on the Orient Express; everybody did it.
Appreciate JFK's work on the missile crisis, but y'know, chickens coming home to roost.
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 06:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
an old professor of mine posted this a few months ago.http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/opinion/the-umbrella-man.html
― Sophomore subs are the new Smith lesbians. (the table is the table), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
The JFK assassination doesn't bother me at all from a conspiracy standpoint, but the Oswald assassination does a little bit.
― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
I read the Kerry Thornley biography awhile ago and aside from all the goofy fun-time beatnik Discordianism it's good into what it was like being on the receiving end of Garrison's witch hunt of an investigation.
― Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
I also think some sketchy/illegal shit might have gone down in the days afterward, when the CIA realizes that wackadoodle dude they were keeping tabs on just killed the President. xp
― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
I remember when JFK had just come out, Mad Magazine did a piece about "less popular theories on the JFK assasination", or something like that. My favourites were "Zapruder had a gun in his camera", and "Aristoteles Onassis killed JFK so he could marry Jackie". I wonder if there are some conspiracy nuts out there who actually believe in one of those?
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 09:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
Okay, holy shit, apparently there actually are some theories that say Onassis had Kennedy killed, though not because he wanted to marry Jackie. And he had Robert Kennedy assassinated too.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 09:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
The Rolling Stones contributed a rather specious conspiracy theory.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 13:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html
― one dis leads to another (ian), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:29 (1 year ago) Permalink
"Zapruder had a gun in his camera"
― Tuomas, Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:21 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
hah
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
that's my favorite one
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 15:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
It was the guy from scanners in the trunk of the limo
― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
i figure it was the mob using oswald― disappointing goth fest line-up (orion), Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:08 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i still stand by this (to the extent that i give the JFK assassination any thought at all). JFK was whacked.
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
so then the mob whacked oswald to keep him quiet - they must have had a lot of faith in jack ruby. also amazed w/ all the fbi sweeps of mob dudes in the late 70s and early 80s everyone kept their mouth shut about it.
i would like there to be a conspiracy as much as anyone. iirc that was the big elephant-in-the-room subplot of norman mailer's "harlot's ghost". they called the jfk file at the CIA "the crown jewels" in it. and i really liked the story james ellroy put together in the american tabloid trilogy.
but as chuck d said - in a very different original sense - 'Man to man/ I don't know if they can/ From what I know/ The parts don't fit'
it is hard for me to believe that our gov't couldn't something so trivial as watergate secret but they've kept the lid on jfk all this time
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
Fun and games, man. Fun and games.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah personally i find ufo / bermuda triangle / number stations stuff much more fun, jfk assassination is just depressing
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 16:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
Even though I find aspects of the conspiracy argument compelling--and aspects of the lone-gunman argument baffling--to me this has always been the strongest argument for Oswald acting alone: most individuals have a hard time keeping a secret, and the idea that 10 or 50 or 100 could keep one for an open-ended period of time seems virtually unthinkable.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 17:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
esp a secret THIS BIG that involves the cia, fbi and mafia working in collusion, three groups of people we know are actually quite bad at keeping secrets ... will be very interested to see what gets redacted in 2017 though when the rest of the files come out
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 17:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
funny how Ollie Stone had a character raise that same counterargumenet only to get shouted again.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 17:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
i've never read a dedicated book so i basically know nothing but i always assumed that the assassination was a zeitgeist thing: a spirit of hate for kennedy floating thickly around, and this weird insecure perennial patsy who wanted to be Part Of History hanging out in a series of rooms drinking while people he wanted to impress grumbled SOMEONE SHOULD SHOOT THE SONUVABITCH. when there's evidence that lbj or dick helms or whoever are Covering Stuff Up i suspect it's not secrets about dealey plaza they're concealing but secrets about the state of the union 1963. (i like the delivery in stone's nixon of "i don't think you understand how much people hate kennedy down here!") but most of that stuff isn't even secret at this point. idk. for me all the lessons that ought to be learned from the assassination have to do with the way the spirit of a time can become so pressurized and toxic that it suddenly spurts out some violence (which then begets violence, which then etc, and suddenly you have The Sixties). the national need to believe in a conspiracy seems like a fear of history: surely someone else must have done this to us. so basically i'm in mick jagger's camp.
― their private gesture for bison (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
fear of history, fear of random universe, think you nailed it there
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^^this, plus also treasure maps and secret doors for the next generation
― a la bouquet marmoset (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
"Who did this terrible thing to our city? My GOD it was me!"
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
ok just imagine Alan Alda playing X, sitting on that bench with Kevin Costner.
haha i thought that was mike love for a second b/c i'm listening to the beach boys thread in another tab and i was like, yeah, i could get behind the idea that mike love masterminded the kennedy assassination
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
"A devastating national trauma will cause people to drown their sorrows in refreshing songs about surf, sun and fun... We'll make millions, if everyone can just keep quiet."
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
"I loved like the warmth of the sun / Within me at night / It won't ever die."
― pplains, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
i heard crosby stills and nash did it
before they could end the vietnam war ... they had to start it
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
"everywoodyallenmovie.com" an important resource of which i was previously unaware
― their private gesture for bison (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
Grassy knoll and Oswald's schemin'THREE SHOT IN MO-TOR-CADE
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
this summer I hear the gunningJack dead in DEALEY-O
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
I like this new (?) pop-music-centric conspiracy theory. Too bad Paul McCartney hadn't died yet - one of his doubles would fit the pattern perfectly.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
stone in the director's cut later discredited this character when he tried to set up garrison in a gay bathroom sting!
― omar little, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
The other thing about the assassination, beyond it exerting a continuing fascination-magnetism in the American psyche, etc., is that it's never one HUNDRED percent easy to dismiss conspiracy theories, because of everything else that it turned out the government really was doing, e.g. COINTELPRO, which is partially on record but still mostly redacted and/or classified. Like, it's a ripe atmosphere for conspiracy theories when you have actual conspiracies going on, and everybody (since the, what, early 70s?) now knows at least the outlines of it.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
Totally. CIA, mafia, they were all off the freaking chain as far as over-extending their reach, and it's not like batshit stuff didn't really happen.
But I agree that the parties involved are no known for their secret-keeping abilities, so single gunman is still the most rational theory that holds any water.
Part of me does love the conspiracy though. Oswald was such a fuckin mook
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
― piscesx, Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:44 AM
hmmmmm - http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nagell1.htm
― am0n, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
parallax view is dope tho
pakula is dope
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
you're referring, i believe, to chairing the special operations group. as vice president. as you know, that was... unique. not so much an operation as... an organic phenomenon. it grew. changed shape. it developed... appetites. it's not unusual in such cases that things are not committed to paper. that could be very embarrassing!
― their private gesture for bison (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
it's a shame you didn't take similar precautions, dick!
xp re pakula: if you like wide angle shots of soul deadening 70s corporate architecture, he's your go to man
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
He was your go-to guy for that sort of thing. Rollover is practically a filmed catalog of office interiors and exteriors.
― Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 06:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, May 8, 2012 7:19 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, May 8, 2012 7:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
OTM, not to mention the Castro assassination plots the CIA kept from the Warren Commission. Oswald may have acted alone, but he wasn't living in a vacuum.
― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 06:45 (1 year ago) Permalink