Being sexually attracted to (or repulsed by) certain racial types: the acceptable face of racism?

Yes - it was here. That match.com attractiveness report thing told me that I only liked white girls*, but that's OK, seeing as a I'm a half-Parsee in search of my more exotic Caucasian roots. Or are Parsees Caucasian anyway? I dunno.

*except for one Asian girl they *fooled* me with.

i'm from Australia, I don't know it's specific meanings in the UK or US

You mean Chinese or Japanese or Indian or whatever? They're mostly pretty different.

I think it is racist in a grand sense (in that one assosciates certain things with certain racial types and are attracted to them because of those assumptions. but it isn't really yr fault because it is just the Web of Sexuality, and a power structure outside yr control making you think that).

a personal anecdote: I remember watching a James Bond film (you only live twice?) when I was about 10 where he says something about liking asian (meaning chinese or far easetern) girls (i might be misremembering this). The first girl i fancied (Hoi-Yan), some 6 months later was a chinese lass. I'm pretty certain these 2 events were related.

(crosspost)

Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam. It includes "Asian Indian," "Chinese," "Filipino," "Korean," "Japanese," "Vietnamese," and "Other Asian."

haha. i thought at first you meant she became a chinese lass 6 months later.. like, incredible hulk stylee.

i'm sexually attracted to girls who find asian boys sexually attractive.

(crosspost obv)

ha ha ha! yeah by power of lust i can change a girls race & nationality. Supersex.

Wow, then I like Europeans then: Germans, Italians, Albanians, Russians, Turks, Georgians etc etc etc

oh i'm totally an uglist.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

i wonder if isobel campbell is islamic

Be careful not to drop it, it's kinda slippery.

and then paint more pictures with that.

Yes, but then you can't judge a person who loves a certain racial type a priori (*face value* har har) or just because s/he's now in a relationship with someone from a different race. Something I sadly do tend to do despite realizing it's also *bad*. Vice versa: I equally dislike Japanese women for *hunting* down a caucasian guy because of what he represents (according to her/Japanese culture). It's too complicated.

it's not racist to not have found people from certain racial types attractive.

it may be racist to make remarks such as "i don't find asians attractive"

also, sexual attraction often has to do with familiarity, and so clearly you're more likely to be attracted to someone of your own culture (note the word culture i.e. not necessary race).

i think using "short-sighted" in a derogatory sense such as this is bigotted, arrogant discrimination against the disabled.

I think it's only fair to point that out.

(x-post: I meant COMIC and WITTY form.)

Well, I often find both Asian and black folks attractive, and it might be exactly because to me they're "exotic"; Finland's immigrant population is rather small, so the exoticness comes from that.

(personally I totally go for pale-skinned caucasians, but there ya go)

Yeah, I wasn't arguing with you, just wanted to make a point. But i think the familiarity thing has more to do with what sort of personalities you find attractive. For example, I might find Hindu women sexually attractive, but the cultural differences might be an obstacle (not an unpassable one, obviously) if I actually dated one.

ive noticed that there are some racial groups i find more sexually attractive in general (white/latin/oriental/mixed..i only seem to like black and latino men but i like mostly all girls)but not in any fetish way. i thnik its a problem when people will only go out with a certain race, esp. when it is not their own race or exclusively their own race. i have never been with a girl just because of their ethnic origim, i dont like the whale flava' craig-davidee thing. there is no racism in blanket statments such as 'x raced people are sexy. being repulsed by certain racial types would fall into racism, like when nazi's fell in love with jewish bitches and started feeling sick. white girls with thier slicked down hair and saying they only go out with black-boys..etc is just confusion.

as is she, whose species is unbeknownst to me
http://www.segginger.net/Star_Trek/Voyager/Kes02.JPG

i just don't know what to say about this.

anyway, Tuomas OTM. Since we're all talking in massive generalities here (crossing ethnic lines, reaffirming racial distinctions that are supposed to be outmoded)...we can generalize about personalities too. From my experience, the quite unattractive thing about "Asian women" is that culturally, they are not particularly informed, outspoken or humorous about social, cultural and political issues. This is a turn-off for me.

And as others have pointed out, the "aesthetics" of someone from Cambodia are utterly different from those of Japan. The "aesthetics" of hungry people are also very different from those of excessively made-up people. Leave politics out of it? How can you?

We're also not clear on whether we're talking about "Asian women" in Asian countries, or those in our first world countries. There is a world of difference.

i dunno about that. it is racism, it might just not be bad racism...

http://www.louisck.com/images/headshot2.gif

Any man who thinks that Asian women are subservient should try riding a crowded bus in Taipei or Hong Kong. They'll kick your hyper-masculine ass. Then spit on you. Not necessarily in that order.

i think the point is becoming clear..
it's not racist to not have found people from certain racial types attractive.

it may be racist to make remarks such as "i don't find asians attractive"

It's okay to think something but not to say it. Oh, now I get it. Yeah, that makes rhetorical sense. Okay. Huh? Are you serious?

SPOKEN: "I'm sorry Ms. Chen, we are unable to offer you the job/have sex with you at this time."

THOUGHT: "We don't hire/sleep with Asians. Ever."

THOUGHT: "We don't hire/sleep with Asians. Ever."

haha. er, actually, you didn't really get it

the point was, saying "i haven't encountered an asian woman whom i've found attractive" isn't necessarily racist. but to say "i find asian women unattractive" is.

the first is factual, the second is an ill-informed generalisation.

to assume that "ms. chen" is an asian/chinese name, is probably also racist but i guess you got that, anyway.

You may want to also see this thread of mine:

Making positive generalisations about people in other cultures/races - classic or dud?

I was lurking in an ILX chat room when a few British ILXors referred to curly hair as 'mingy'. Sorry, but that IS bigoted.

However, it would not be reasonable to ask the law, or an individual, to guarantee equality of result. (In fact, equality of opporunity is more or less a guarantee of inequality of result.) In other words, nobody would expect all actors in society to be entitled to exactly the same life experiences as all others, and even if we expected an open-minded person to be willing to consider marrying partners of all races, we wouldn't expect him or her to actually marry someone from every race, one after the other. At some point one leaves abstract principles (of equality) and makes a commitment to a particularity. One judges. One chooses. Choice is inevitable. It would be silly to say that every choice is a massive discrimination against the things unchosen.

Chen is one of the "lao bai xing" or old 100 names, one of the most common of Chinese surnames. To assume that "Chen" is a Chinese name is hardly racist, it is informed. To assume that Ms. Chen is Chinese may or may not be racist based on whether one is looking at the person or on the telephone. Even looking at the person, one might not be able to tell whether Ms. Chen were Chinese, but it would not be an ignorant racist assumption.

However, not be reasonable guarantee equality of to ask the law, it would or an individual nobody would expect, to result. (In fact, equality of opporunity of inequality of result.) In other words, all actors in society to be entitled life experiences as all others, and even is more or to exactly the same less a guarantee if we expected an open-minded person to be willing to consider marrying every race, one partners of all races, we wouldn't expect him or her to actually marry someone from after the other. At some point one leaves abstract principles (of equality) and Choice is inevitable. makes a commitment to a particularity. One judges. One chooses. It would be silly to say that every choice is against the things unchosen a massive discrimination

i get the feeling that the actual points of my posts early would never actually be read, anyway.

IRL, I think there are very few cases where race and gender are immaterial to judgement. These are still 'differences that make a difference', and need to be taken into account when we make judgements. If they aren't, our judgements can't be fair. So I think the image of Justice wearing a blindfold is a rather silly one, and I also think that to call people 'racist' and 'sexist' -- if it just means they take race and gender into account -- is a wrongheaded criticism.

'My it ain't so open that anything could crawl right in...'

shorthand = prejudice

The thing is, choices and decisions and value judegements are necessary. We all need closure at some point. If everything is sub-judice all the time, it's chaos. And the context I most hear that phrase in is when the authorities gag the press, telling them they can report something because it's being judged. In other words, 'You can't judge this before I do.'

always happy to help

This would actually be the greatest thing ever and will be the cornerstone of my 2008 presidential campaign.

He'll give it to everyone.

Offtopic: Most people I'd met from India before college were the children of Muslim doctors immigrants. Why?

no.. those two examples are equivalents. it would be racist to say "all asian women are unattractive"

but you'd just be Friends, hawhaw

Everybody ends up being part of that race eventually.

Not so!!! I ain't hatin' on you playa!~ It's just a pet peeve, sorry if I overreacted. People throw the racism card around a little too freely, in my opin. We can't help our feelings, although with time and experience, the lucky ones may be able to change them. We can't make ourselves like or love or respect people we don't love, even if it's based on something like ethnicity. It's a shame, but it's not a crime. I think racism is what happens when you act on those feelings to deny people access to things they have an inherent right to, like housing or employment or access to commercial establishments and the like. No one has a right to my love or respect or lust even. It's a shallow person who defines things so categorically, perhaps, I don't find white women attractive, or something like that, sure. But it's not racist. There has to be a distinction between criminal behavior--which I think racism is--and unfortunate narrow-mindedness. That's all I mean. But in the case of someone who says, as you quote, I don't find Asian women attractive, while not necessarily racist, gives one pause to think he might also be racist in behavior. That could well be.

Especially when it comes to feelings and attraction... i mean - it's naturally such a subjective thing, anyway (like haw haw the way the girls all have the hots for me just because i'm so pretty etc.) - you'd file a lawsuit if someone doesn't give you a job because you're ugly!!

But I digress, of course, noone has the right to anybody's love or feelings - however, when things become so catagorical like someone saying "i don't find <race> attractive", implying that the race is the deciding factor in attractiveness. Well, of course i wouldn't put this person to jail and i can understand how thoughts like this could come about, it's not even necessarily "right" or "wrong" (love is a feeling), but i would certainly classify it as a racist thought.

on a similar vein i'm an utter sexist when it comes to attraction. haha yes, i like the sex bit.

I'm still interested that it seems acceptable to say: "I'm attracted to black men." but it's not acceptable to say: "I don't find black men attractive."

it's ok to say "i'm attracted to black men" sure, but probably not to say "i'm ONLY attracted to black men".

Pip pip!

xpost

see my post earlier. it is racist to only be attracted to one race, but it's not something that would get you into jail.

But then consider people like Strom Thurman, an institutional racist who found black people attractive, fucked them, and had kids with them. Then as legislator tried to fuck them again metaphorically. Or J. Edgar Hoover who was a notorious persecutor of gays and then was of course gay himself.

No, I'm sorry, I think there has to be a very tight definition. You have a right to a job but no right to be thought of as attractive.

Why would anyone find a certain 'race' unattractive? All of them seem to have plenty of attractive people in my experience. I wish there weren't so many goddamn white people everywhere here though, ya know.

No, "political" ideas about race stem from basically the same material as interpersonal ideas about race -- cultural influence, family influence, personal experience, all the usual shit that shapes people's worldviews. If there's a distinction between them, it's this: we can put intellectual checks on our "political" ideas about race. They matter in our opinions about the world and in the way we treat people, so when we recognize racism in our thinking, we can use our big old brains to try and quash it. Our genitals are more complicated. For one thing, they're not out in the open; chances are we'll never really have to investigate why we're attracted to the people we're attracted to, and the mechanics of the thing are so closed-off and mysterious to us that we probably wouldn't get very far even if we tried. More importantly, it's really hard to override our attractions with logic and intellect.

So yeah ... who we're attracted to is just as bound up in our ideas about race as anything else. And yeah, there's gonna be mild or complex racism in that, as there is in anything. There's a reason we don't go around hassling people about that, though, and the reason is that it matters very little. It doesn't deny people jobs or housing; it probably won't affect how you vote; it probably won't affect how you treat people -- it's limited to the sphere of your personal life, and so it's entirely, entirely your own business. Your business, like everyone else's, is going to be affected by complicated ideas about race, yes, but in most cases that's between you and your own brain.

And remember that this is true of loads of things having nothing to do with race. Everything affects our romantic life, good and bad. The way you think about sex can be influenced by the model of your happy parents or by having been sexually abused as a child. It's all in there, and it's pretty much up to individuals to sort out how to deal with it -- what's "right" and what's "wrong," what's "healthy" and what's not, what's worth trying to change and what's not.

And please for god's sake let's not pretend racism is any less complicated than that -- this idea that racism is some kind of "conscious decision" wherein people decide to totally hate some group is just completely unreal. It's as complicated and semi-conscious as anything else in our heads, and it's way less about some sort of decided "hate" than it is about little ideas and preconceptions and tiny chunks of worldview.

i'm OTM in case nobody noticed

-- the surface noise (electricsoun...), April 13th, 2004 7:35 AM.

-- the (logica...), April 19th, 2004.

Exactly. Am I sexist because I am only attracted to one sex ?

what of people who are attracted to those who look like themselves (not just generally but specifically)? how many of us does this describe? are they racist if they're vain/narcissistic (primarily auto-erotic?) in the first instance?

He starts well by making a culturalist case, and saying that racism is present in all situations. But then he spoils his point a bit by saying "it's pretty much up to individuals to sort out how to deal with it"... as if there were a place where individuals could step outside of all that cultural stuff he's just described, or as if there weren't also group solutions, cultural solutions, political solutions (legislation, changing social mores, being John and Yoko and posing naked together on an album sleeve, etc).

well what have you done for THEM lately?

It was his lovely green eyes I fell for. Then someone told me they were Photoshopped.

who is reflecting?

I'm gonna say no because it could be put more eloquently/tastefully as 'i want to sleep with different types of people instead of just the one type' and there's nothing really wrong with that. I figure most people have thought along those lines at some point or another.

I still think there's a marked difference between ruling out sex with same gender and ruling out an entire racial group.

Steve, there's also nothing wrong with fancying certain types of people - look at Will Carling always going for women with cropped blonde bobs, for example. Or Brad Pitt always making himself look LIKE his partner of the time...

what's the opposite of preference? no preference. how is that prejudice?!

the point i'm making is merely that crass generalisations (what does an Asian woman look like? etc.) are a dumb way of putting it and will appear suspicious. and people should say what they mean/be more specific.

i have a friend who only likes men with blue eyes and refuses to even consider any who don't. that seems like mentalism to me.

you fucker - those were the exact words I was going to use.