Depression and what it's really like

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There's a lot of talk on this board about depression. Everything is relative, of course. Antidepressants are panaceas with only 5% medical benefit. Most just feel low, or more accurately frightened and confused about what may or may not happen on this planet in months/weeks to come.

But depression.

Short, productive, alert periods punctuated by long bleak stretches of nothingness. Inability to communicate. Stay in bed. Long periods just sitting numbly, blankly, waiting for the tabula rasa to fill magically. Of course it never can. Can't speak, can't write, can't concentrate apart from endless agony induced by what has happened.

Discovering the true meaning of heartache - the ribs on the left side actually produce a dull stress-induced pain, right underneath the heart. It is literally broken.

Wondering how many more fucking days I can tolerate waking up, feeling this cold, pointless emptiness, thinking only "I could have gone last night. No need to have suffered through another of these hellish days."

(N.B.: for newcomers, read the "Marcello and Laura" set of threads on this board for the whole story. Brief summary: widowed almost seven weeks ago, imminently to become homeless)

Dora Carrington only lasted seven weeks after Strachey died.

No one left to be hurt by anything I do or don't do. Joke family keen that I let them know when I move so that they can have the coffee table.

Nothing more to say about music, certainly not on ILM. It's all been said/done/pastiched/analysed. Served its purpose.

Not sure if I have anything more to say about anything. Work continues; providing sole structure in my life at the moment.

House-hunting. What a joke. Like applying for a fucking job. Crap about "fitting in" and "selling yourself." I haven't got the energy or the will to do either. I just want it out of the way.

You try your best, get brief incandescent flashes, but are ultimately flattened by the complete fucking pointlessness of it all.

Mentally I can't cope with this for much longer. Nor physically.

I could have pressed the return key 30 times and just left a big blank space. That would have said it all equally well.

Depression, people. That's what it's like.

An effort even to type this.

Yeah but it's just post-bereavement grief Marcello. Everyone goes through it. You're not losing it. It's natural. Six months from now you'll

No I won't. I know me too well for that.

Self-pity man. Wallowing in it. There's a

YEAH I KNOW THERE'S A FUCKING WAR ON IT DOESN'T NEUTRALISE HOW I FEEL

ABSENCE OF BANDAGES DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE NOT SICK

Can anybody think of a reason why I should go on?

Not Dead Yet, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

depression for me was waking up and thinking "can i go please go back to sleep again?"

reason to go on living? to remember things, to be with others, to do the things that you need to do.

marianna, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I'm very sorry you're feeling this way. I empathize. Around a year ago I was at my lowest depths with this disease and asked myself the same question you are every day: why bother? i can't give you an answer, everyone has to find it for themselves. But I can urge you to keep looking for it. Isn't that a reason in itself?

Get some help. Do you have a therapist or doctor you can go to? A good friend? Ask for help from someone. An excellent therapist who has really become more friend was the only person/thing in my life to keep me going at times. I'm eternally grateful to her. I hope you can find a similar life raft.

Remember above all else, no matter how unlikely it may seem now, you can live through this. One day you will feel better. Make that your goal, to see that day, and you have your reason to keep on going.

Samantha, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

No one can tell you why you should go on. It's up to you to decide why you should go on - anything anyone else says will come off as empty or cold or unfeeling or just not "sympathetic" to what you are feeling, no matter what the intention was.

I mean, listen, I am so not trying to be cold, but I've been there. I mean, good god, the night I met my fiance I went on a complete bender, and ended up sobbing on the floor trying to slash my wrists with the first knife I could find (thankfully for me now, a butter knife - I was really piss drunk. Those things do damage though, surprisingly). And there's really nothing anyone can say or tell you is good about your life that is going to stop you from feeling that way, that's the way depression is, real hardcore depression at least.

The only thing I can tell you is that it's too soon into it to judge. If you keep telling yourself hang on for another day over and over, you might eventually find for yourself your reason to keep going. You just have to take a deep breath and say, "One more day. I will pretend to be normal for just one more day". And then say that tomorrow. And the day after. So on and so forth.

This might not help you or save you or stop you from doing what you currently seem to believe is inevitable. But it might just stay you long enough to find your way out of what's going on in your head right now.

You might want to go seek some sort of help, be it professional or otherwise, but being as I always refused to, I am being hypocritical to suggest it. I do hope you can find the strength to ask someone for help though, because once you do it really DOES help.

Ally, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

"Can anybody think of a reason why I should go on?"

I'm not going to give a reason why you should go on Marcello, it'll be difficult to give a reason that you won't immediately dead-bat anyway. But, of course, you must go on and I can't think of a reason why you shouldn't.
But have you spoken a bereavement councellor at all? There are people who will understand and can help you. You have a family, have you spoken to them? It sounds trite but you aren't alone and you needen't feel alone. You just need some help Marcello, and no-one could blame you for how you feel but you must try to seek and accept help.
Thing's change. They always change.

DavidM, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Sure. Here's a damn good reason to go on:

There's all schools of thought about what happens when you die. There's all schools of thought about why there's "good" and "bad" in the world. Depressed people are usually fixated on "good", "bad" and "death", basically due to desires unfulfilled or seemingly unable to be fulfilled.

There's a bunch of people that believe a "perfect" God would somehow create a perfect entity that would turn "bad" (Satan) and convince people to doubt God's perfection (namely, by eating from the tree of good and evil), and, thereby causing this world of misery... Let's think about this for a second: perfect beings, according to this old lore, choose evil.

Why would that be?

Let's talk about reality, now, not old stories:
When everything is great, people still find much to complain about, sometimes more than people who lead miserable lives of poverty. This is because this is how the mind works. For instance, how long can you concentrate on one good thing and have it remain "good"? Everything's "goodness" and newness wears off because we live from moment to moment and it is impossible to freeze one moment of goodness in time, while continuing to move forward with our lives. Our minds label a thing as "good" or "bad" and has the tendency to move on, eager to label the next thing "good" or "bad". If you make a million dollars, you will quickly get used to the idea, rather than being fixated on how "good" it is to be rich, and you will start focusing on other desires. Whether the desire is for another million dollars or for finding someone who really "loves" you is not important. You follow your desires, and are neither fulfilled before you achieve your goals or after you achieve your goals.

Why is this?

Imagine that you attained perfection. How long would it last? Only for the moment. The rest of the time you would be trying to "freeze" this perfect moment in time forever, remembering how great it is to be perfect. But, it couldn't last and it wouldn't last. This is the way the universe works: everything is in flux.

So, then, imagine you kill yourself. Is that really the end to your misery? Science has many new ideas regarding creation of life, how the universe works, etc. One thing that sticks out is the fact that the universe has proven itself to be an intelligent system. Evolution occured, most likely, not out of chance, but by intelligent choice. The fact that the universe is nonlocal proves that everything is interconnected through some mysterious and invisible force (dark matter, perhaps?)

So, then, let's say you blow your head off. You are gone, in the mind of who you are. But, the greater intelligence of the universe still exists, and, in some way, you are part of it, you return to it. There really is no escape, except maybe from your minute perspective that currently resides in the shell of your head. Better to enjoy the individual perspective your body can provide while you have the opportunity. If you are striving to be happy, you will never be happy. You will always be striving to be happy. If you simply are happy in every moment, there is nothing to strive for... and that is the difference, as trite as it seems. Each shitty moment will pass, but it is only considered "shitty" if you choose to label it as such. So, let's say you're girlfriend dumped you... or you are ugly as sin... these are things you can dwell on or use as an opportunity to explore new things... like, dating or, if nobody finds you attractive in the least, there are many things that can fill the seeming void of companionship. After all, many people are dissatisfied with the companionship they aquire, even if they're get lots of it from lots of different people every week.

If nothing is interesting to you, seek out things you can identify with, like books on existentialism. It sounds like you are reeling from the futility of existence. But, existence is not futile. That's what it does. It just keeps existing... and there really is no escape from existence, there is only different perspectives about existence. Note: I am not suggesting you will be reincarnated, but whatever comes after death (and nobody really knows), one thing the universe shows us is that everything is the same and there is no "good" and "bad". There will always be suffering, change, etc. Be glad you are not living in worse circumstances, in the filth and ignorance of the dark ages, for instance.

Nude Spock, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, and I'd like to add that everyone is in the same boat. It just seems like other people are different, when, in reality, their experiences, attitudes and decisions have led them to be the people they are, for better or worse. Everyone pretty much starts out an innocent, ignorant little diaper-wearer and goes through a life-long process of having problems, one after another, that they deal with and learn from. People who fixate on the same problems day after day haven't learned to deal with or learn from these problems and it's usually due to an inability to accept the fact that they can't be who they want or get what they want, etc., rather than working toward goals and focusing on worthwhile emotions related to what you have or what you will have in the future... or just simply being happy that you see things your own way. I get lots of enjoyment out of realizing miserable, offensive people don't have the ability to see things like I do, rather than letting their misery rub off on me. I'm not happy they're miserable... or shallow or fake or ignorant... I'm happy I can identify their problems, rather than be concerned about what they think my "problem" is. For instance, why should it make any difference to me if some snooty bitch asks me if I shop at Walmart? Or if some bohemoth asks me if I'm a fag or somethin'? Or if some miserable fuck tells me I'm a complete moron? It doesn't matter.

Nude Spock, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

just one.

because death is for wussies.

okay, two.

because you'd be insulting laura.

(when alexis was taken from me...so, suddenly, with no build up, just...alive, vibrant, calling me on her cell on the way to the airport at the beginning of the week and then...cold, in a box, made up by some ghoulish mary kay girl to recapture that flush she got when she was excited or turned on or laughing or angry or...alive...but that light had now gone out...it felt as if nine years had been eradicated from my life...i spent months feeling as if i was being cotinually...raped...mentally...and...i cant count the number of times i stood in front of a mirror...and thought...very seriously...calmly...about...doing...it...the big IT...it had never seemed so...easy...to slip away...

what stopped me?

imagining her...rage...at me doing something so stupid and fucking SELFISH...you have a fucking GIFT, man...you have the years she doesnt...you better fill them...every minute...with as much LIFE as you can...cuz like a baby you're eating for two now...and even if i ever find someone to make me feel the...unfettered joy...that she brought...i'll still be living the rest of my life FOR her in so many ways.

so don't do it.

okay?)

jess, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

That's a wonderful reply Jess. Marcello, I'm sorry for the inadequacy of my reply. It's based on my experience with depression but obviously your depression springs from an experience I haven't shared. Either way I think the ultimate advice is the same: find some help. It is worth it to keep going and you will find the strength in yourself again. Take care of yourself.

Samantha, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

i just wanted to point out that the above wasn't intended to be crass at all. it was all totally genuine and heartfelt. marcello, i don't know how many years you and laura shared together and frankly, it doesn't matter. i have...an understanding (if i can't know how you feel) of what it's like to lose...your soulmate...since i know how i felt/feel...since it happened to me. but death begetting more death is just that, an insult. i know that you know this; i know. because, deep down, i knew it too. which is why i am typing this and not in my own box. why would i want to spread the feeling which had crippled my mind and shattered my heart to my own loved ones? you're...not going to feel better. for a long time. why should i lie? but...the pain does fade. the pain will fade. in time. slow, agonizing time. but fade nonetheless. i still wake up often having dreamed of her and weep like a child until morning. i still get caught up short in my daily activities when i recall just...her looks, her smell, the sound of her voice saying certain words... but i no longer long for death. and i feel like you'll eventually feel the same.

jess, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Jess, I was being sincere. I thought your reply and advice were very good.

Samantha, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

(whoops, samantha, i started posting that before i even saw your reply. no harm no foul.)

jess, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

During depressive episodes, the normal logical mind is "hijacked" by thoughts and emotions of negativity and hopelessness. The depressed person lives ina cloud of self delusion. Life is not without its beauty and triumph, and if you can't see that you are being blinded from it. Suicide is futile.

Mike Hanle y, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

My god jess, I wouldn't apologise. That sounded so sincere that I felt it all for myself to the point of being in tears, and still now choked up. The burden of the living - I know another story too, just two weeks ago my friend's young neice died just a few days before her fourth birthday. I have a photo of her here on the table, she looks so sweet, like any other little kid - not sick at all. My friend is absolutely heartbroken - but she's been so incredibly strong and graceful ever since it happened, that it's almost beautiful, if you take my meaning. As if she knows that the only way her neice can live on is if the people left behind remember her, not so slight a thing. Marcello, all I can add is that what jess said rings true. Try to be patient and brave - in a world so complex that the unthinkable can happen, there are a lot of other unknowns out there too. Stick around.

Kim, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

My sadness/despair/depression seems so little compared with yours. For a couple of hours on the weekend I was immobilised by the thought "There is no point" - due to the fact that I am single, no one loves me, no one visits me, no one rings me up, no one emails me. Except my dad (and he lives over the ocean). What have I achieved in 28 years? Nothing. My dad loved me from the day I was born - I have never progressed from that and he loves my mum more than he loves me anyhow, so I am not the most special person in the world to anyone. I have made no impact. I am meaningless. There is no point.

I still think there is not point but I'm not immobilised now. I can't tell you any reason to go on, just as I can't think of one for myself - except maybe hope and because it's easier to do nothing.

And by looking at the sky or touching a tree or digging in some dirt or lying on the grass, I am reminded that, even though there is no point, I might as well hang around and have momentary pleasurable experiences.

Shiatsu massage is one of those pleasureable experiences. Despite costing $50 and only lasting for an hour or so it may well be worth going on for.

www.shiatsu.8m.com/practitioners.htm

toraneko, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

My own POV of course...

Go on, not because there's a point, but because eventually you'll learn to enjoy living again. I've never believed there's a point to life, but when you're not enjoying it either then it seems like you're just doing time.

I stopped wanting to do anything because no activity was enjoyable, so I had no inclination to do things. the inactivity was killing me and made it worse.

Regaining interest in things takes much healing time, but soon you become human again -- WANTING to do things. something I'd forgotten i ever did.

when you want to do something, and that thing is enjoyable, that's a feeling worth living for.

Alan Trewartha, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Koanshi = clinically depressed. I can't seem to get on with my life. I can't... Plus I feel like I will go insane through religious paranoia.

Kodanshi, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

The mere fact that you've posted this suggests that you want to. Everyone, no matter how far back in their mind positivity has been pushed, has that positivity. That's not saying it won't be a struggle to find it. But with time (and maybe help) things will get better. Things got better for me when I didn't think they would which only suggests it can happen to everyone.

Bill, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Nude, I'm really impressed with your stepping-outside-the-box observations... thank you. seriously.

Brian MacDonald, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

6 years pass...

Want a hug so bad and the man won't be home for three hours. Fucking THESE DAYS. These fucking days.

Abbott, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

::HUGZ:: come to ilx chatz is a happy fam

chaki, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

i give abbott hug & will not stab her man tonight even tho i want to

deeznuts, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

yes! come to chatz abbott there's lotsa love there

Rubyredd, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

This book has helped me a lot.

Abbott, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

**hug**

Aimless, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

ILX thinks yr great, Abbs. Take that for whatever it's worth to you, you can totally pwn the next three hours.

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'd give him a call but like he needs to spend 15 minutes of work hearing me in choking sobs over the phone.

Abbott, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

Why don't you give him a call and ask him to tell you a story, instead? That way you get to hear his voice and feel closer to him but won't feel like you're dumping on him...?

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Also it will prob be a better story than the one about your dad and the birds. Because THAT'S not depressing or anything.

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

HAHAHAHA

I've been thinking about that one for the past few days. Why?

Abbott, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

Hope the time passes quickly for you; depression is awful - I've so been there (not too badly lately, thankfully).

Hang in there. (And yeah, I'm sure that doesn't help much from a perfect stranger, but unless you're in southern Minnesota, it will be hard for me to invite you over for brownies or something!)

Sara R-C, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

what kind of brownies

deeznuts, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

megabus is only a dollar and i'd pay a dollar for brownies.

chicago kevin, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

omar little, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

See? An hour has already passed! How you doin?

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

Damn this accursed MACHIIIIINE!

robertwolf8080, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Just plain brownies! They are kind of fudgy - no nuts - very simple, with chocolate icing (really just chocolate chips melted with some butter). I made them because I was feeling low today.

Megabus sounds like something from My Neighbor Totoro. I must find out about it!

Sara R-C, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

no weed, no visitation.

just kidding, id kill for any kind of homemade brownie right now.

and how is abbott doing now?? apparently no longer at her computer surfing ilx, which means: way better off than any of us.

deeznuts, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

I went and got a baked potato at Wendy's. Some good songs came on the radio that made me nostalgic. The nostalgia took me places I shouldn't have gone, but the potato was good. And, uh, pulling through, You guys 'r' swell.

Abbott, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

megbus.

chicago kevin, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

the bacon cheddar baked potato is the only baked potato worth having

deeznuts, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

you're crazy deeznuts. the bacon cheddar may be at the top of the baked potato hierarchy but by no means is it "the only baked potato worth having".

chicago kevin, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

I am actually a fan of the potato skins with cheddar and bacon, with a side of sour cream and chives. Hit all the bases that way.

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

ok, fine. excuse me for being hyperbolic. the sour cream & chive is a delicious steal, & i would recommend it to anyone short of $2.49.

xp i didnt know this was possible?? i dont have a wendy's within 45 mins of me anymore tho

deeznuts, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

i know admitting it is like admitting that i enjoy the slaughter of kittens, but i have to say that i find baked potatos fairly nasty

remy bean, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:59 (6 years ago) Permalink

Oh, not at Wendy's. They're awesome in diners or at home, though.

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

theyre mainly a starchy delivery device for cheese/sour cream/butter/etc

jhøshea, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

remy, do you eat them with like, stuff on them? cuz baked potatoes are disgusting, which is why you coat them w/ butter & sour cream & cheese & bacon, all of which are wonderful things that i fail to understand how anyone could not love.

xp tru!

deeznuts, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

fighting w/ my fiancee because i do what the psychiatrist + therapist tell me to do and she stubbornly fights them every inch of the way (we have different psychiatrists + therapists).

sucks.

moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

Remy has v cultivated tastes, he probably likes more imaginative potato forms. I'm a simple person, though, and I like mine with lots and lots of salt and dairy product.

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

i havent had one of those in so long i should bake one up. sour cream is one of my favorite things.

jhøshea, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

actual potatoes made at my old apartment as part of an amorous evening. nothing hotter than cooking on a cold wet night.

chicago kevin, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

rawr

jhøshea, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

Holy mother, give me those potatoes.

Laurel, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

see, the ratio of baked potato:topping really has to be about 1:2 for me to eat without complaint, and by that point i could just as well be gnawing drywall. for what it's worth, i don't like french fries either, unless the fry:ketchup balance is tilted to a near-farcical point

remy bean, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

Holy mother, give me those potatoes.

you can have the potatoes, give me that girl again...

chicago kevin, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 03:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

Want a hug so bad and the man won't be home for three hours. Fucking THESE DAYS. These fucking days.

Trade 'man' for 'woman' and 'three hours' for '2 months'.

What's that sound effect in the Simpsons in the episode when Darlene from Roseanne tears out Bart's heart and throws it against the wall: "You won't be needing THIS anymore...ahahahahahaha"?

uuuuuuuuuunnnnngggggghhhhhhhh

Z S, Sunday, 1 June 2008 05:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

gif or it didnt happen

and what, Sunday, 1 June 2008 05:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm working on it. Softcore porn+Glowing Edges effect+Music

Z S, Sunday, 1 June 2008 05:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

So when does one decide to call a therapist? I can't even begin to determine if I even have some form of depression (again). I... it seems easier just to shut up about it instead of talking about it.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

Awww, Nathalie. I would say, if your depression starting to interfere with your ability to function, then that's time to step in and get the medical help.

Then again, I don't know. A lot of people manage to function on autopilot and go on autopilot and look after kids and go on, even though they're feeling totally dead inside.

Only you can make that call, but if it's affecting your ability to work, to sleep, eating, your interactions with the people that you love - your standard basics - then you need to call someone in to help you out.

Good luck with it. x

Arrive Naked, Bring Prog (Masonic Boom), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

Thing is you can always see a therapist - see if it helps. I saw one for 2 years - found it very helpful.

Of course, they are therapists and there are therapists, one method might not work for you.

To be honest I think everyone should see one!

The Unbelievably Insensitive Baroness Vadera (Ned Trifle II), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

I... it seems easier just to shut up about it instead of talking about it.

For me this was crucial - I didn't want to talk about - it was too painful - to friends or family. Therapy "allows" you to do this without feeling "I'm just wasting everyone's time."

Does that make sense?

The Unbelievably Insensitive Baroness Vadera (Ned Trifle II), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

To be honest I think everyone should see one!

Yeah, woo. Also, everyone should spend a leisurely year in Paris, just drinking wine and eating cheese and malingering. So good for the soul.

To be honest I think you're being callous. Mental health care is really, really, really, REALLY expensive.

mose def (kenan), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

Er... at least around here. My medication alone costs $300 a month, not counting sessions with the doctor, and I am quickly entering a situation where I will be working to pay for my mental health so I can keep working so I can etc etc. It's like delivering pizza to pay for car repair.

mose def (kenan), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hi, welcome to The Sad Place, you must be This Depressed to enter.

mose def (kenan), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

I got mine on the NHS. Sorry, wasn't meaning to be callous.

The Unbelievably Insensitive Baroness Vadera (Ned Trifle II), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sorry, you touched a nerve. Nothing personal.

mose def (kenan), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

Natalie, have you been to see your doctor about it yet? I'd say definitely do that first if you're open to the idea (helped *a lot* when my wife had post-natal depression btw)

Frank Sumatra (NickB), Friday, 6 February 2009 11:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

i think the nice thing about a therapist is that you're paying them to listen to you talk about what's wrong (& of course hopefully help you out). It's not like a friend, where you have to consider whether or not you're making them uncomfortable or expecting too much of them or you'd actually rather hear about what's going on in their life. Going to a therapist is useful even if you're just trying to work something very temporary out of your system: there is nothing to do there but talk. I know you're not supposed to think of it this way but sometimes i sort of see the ~therapeutic space~ as the place where you talk about it so you can stay shut up about it everywhere else.

c sharp major, Friday, 6 February 2009 11:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

xps, No I wasn't thinking. I have no idea what the situation is like in Belgium for instance. I'm just a bit...er...enthusiastic about it because it did me so much good. Continues to do so, too. I get a bit carried away.

The Unbelievably Insensitive Baroness Vadera (Ned Trifle II), Friday, 6 February 2009 12:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

If cost is an issue then look into CBT, it's remarkably quick - ten sessions max on the NHS - and has really done wonders for me, just in terms of getting out of the mental rut I was in, transforming my attitude, restoring confidence etc.

talk me down off the (ledge), Friday, 6 February 2009 12:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Cost is not that big of an issue but, well, finding a good therapist is. Belgium has good healthcare. I think I could check with my doctor first and then it would be even cheaper? I had one but he ignored my cries for help in regard to my panic attacks. Really strange. I wanted to ask: "Why don't you HEAR me when I talk about my panic attacks?" Instead I just gave up and stopped going. I'm not sure if I need to. I have the (wrong) idea that this is me, this is how I feel at times so why bother with addressing this "problem". I also feel I'm a bit silly for being this way because I simply don't have anything to complain about. Yes, I know, that's not really the issue. I also don't like talking about it cause I just start crying. IF I don't, then I can just pretend it's not here/there/anywhere.

I don't think it's postnatal depression unless hahaha it extends to 16 months after giving birth. haha

Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 6 February 2009 12:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

I dunno, it can last for quite a while. But whatever it is, I'd say it's still worth giving your doctor a go first.

Frank Sumatra (NickB), Friday, 6 February 2009 13:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

If your doctor refuses to listen to you when you bring up panic attacks, then that's cause to find a new doctor. A good doctor pays attention to their patient's mental state of health, as well as physical. If you told your doctor that you were having sharp pains in your head, and he just ignored you, instead of sending to check you for migraines, would you keep going to him? Why should mental health be any different? Panic attacks are a symptom - they're a sign that the mind is in distress and needs some kind of attention. You can't just ignore them like that, if you're a doctor.

Arrive Naked, Bring Prog (Masonic Boom), Friday, 6 February 2009 13:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary

kinda inneresting

iatee, Monday, 31 August 2009 18:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

That is really really really interesting and also reminds me to post this point from an article in Discover Magazine called "The Seven Deadly Sins" (sadly I don't think the art is avail online):

Most of us perceive ourselves as slightly smarter, funnier, more talented, and better-looking than average. These rose-colored glasses are apparently important to mental health, the psychological immune system that protects us from despair. "Those who see themselves as they truly are -- not so funny, a bad driver, overweight -- have a greater chance of being diagnosed with clinical depression," says Julian Paul Keenan, director of the cognitive imagine laboratory and professor of psychology at Montclair State University in New Jersey.

For most of us, it takes less mental energy to puff ourselves up than to think critically about our own abilities. In one recent neuroimaging study by blah blah in Japan, volunteers who imagined themselves winning a prize or trouncing an opponent showed less activation in brain regions associated with introspection and self-conscious thought than people induced to feel negative emotions such as embarrassment.

The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 31 August 2009 18:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

In one recent neuroimaging study by blah blah in Japan

...by who?

Ned Raggett, Monday, 31 August 2009 18:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh fine. It's a long description and I was typing it out by hand. Gawd.

Hidehiko Takahashi of the National Institute of Radiological Sciences in Japan.

The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 31 August 2009 18:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

Those who see themselves as they truly are -- not so funny, a bad driver, overweight

thanks for your opinion julian

lol @ "blah blah"

fo shza my tza (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 31 August 2009 18:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

xpost -- Haha, no worries, I just thought this was a copy/paste from an online article and I was boggling a bit.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 31 August 2009 18:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Prof. Blah, well known for his self-deprecation..."

Ned Raggett, Monday, 31 August 2009 18:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

i'm not that great of a driver, tevs

Thought you were regal/Now who needs "Boston Legal"? (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 31 August 2009 18:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

No, as I already said, the damn article ISN'T AVAILABLE ONLINE.

The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 31 August 2009 18:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

When one considers all the evidence, depression seems less like a disorder where the brain is operating in a haphazard way, or malfunctioning. Instead, depression seems more like the vertebrate eye—an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function.

ehhhh......

call all destroyer, Monday, 31 August 2009 18:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

I don't know about that guy, but my eye is invertebrate.

Aimless, Monday, 31 August 2009 18:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

i think he's talking about the dude from korn's mic stand

Thought you were regal/Now who needs "Boston Legal"? (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 31 August 2009 18:58 (5 years ago) Permalink

Most of us perceive ourselves as slightly smarter, funnier, more talented, and better-looking than average.

So most people are basically all running around thinking they are better than the other? That's funny. Me, I belong in the group prone to depression, I guess, or rather I think I'm pretty darn average to below average.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Monday, 31 August 2009 19:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

Keenan is also using transcranial magnetic stimulation to disrupt deliberate self-deprecation -- the type of unctuous, ingratiating behavior that seems humble but is actually arrogance in disguise. Patterns of brain activation during self-deprecation are fundamentally the same as those during self-deceptive pride, Keenan is finding. Both are forms of one-upmanship. "They're in the same location and seem to serve the same purpose: putting oneself ahead in society," he says.

The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 31 August 2009 19:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

When one considers all the evidence, depression seems less like a disorder where the brain is operating in a haphazard way, or malfunctioning. Instead, depression seems more like the vertebrate eye—an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function.

ehhhh......

I don't see anything wrong with the analogy fwiw

fo shza my tza (Curt1s Stephens), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:11 (5 years ago) Permalink

as someone who has been a loved one to depressed ppl i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the analogy but it's just kinda ehhhhhhh

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

don't know what actual depressed ppl might say fwiw

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

it kinda depends on how you define "malfunctioning" ...

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

i guess all i mean is when my dad was really depressed if someone had told me his depression was "an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function" i would have probably assaulted them.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

a parasite can also be defined as such ...

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah i totally get this desc

tehresa, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

i dont think call all destroyer doesnt "get" the description

fleetwood (max), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

shut up max

tehresa, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

no YOU

fleetwood (max), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

^^ this what depression is really like

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

reading these last few posts has been depressing

Mr. Que, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

Going on a pathetic archive.org binge, looking up friends webpages from high school, and somehow ended up at a photoagallery from a few weeks ago of a friend who just got married, one of my very best friends from back in the day. He looks so happy with his bf (I guess his husband now), I have so few real friends anymore. Anyway, sad lonely guy just thinking about things on the internet, but god, FUCK 2009 so far

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 06:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

waaah fergettit

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 06:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

everything must die!

Nhex, Sunday, 6 September 2009 09:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

Going on a pathetic archive.org binge, looking up friends webpages from high school, and somehow ended up at a photoagallery from a few weeks ago of a friend who just got married, one of my very best friends from back in the day. He looks so happy with his bf (I guess his husband now), I have so few real friends anymore. Anyway, sad lonely guy just thinking about things on the internet, but god, FUCK 2009 so far

I never think in quantity when it comes to friends, really? Then again that's probably cause I have very few friends. I simply don't need a ton of friends.

Of course she looks happy: she's supposed to. :-)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Sunday, 6 September 2009 13:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm simply some vague internet thing, but I still send you some hugs. :-)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Sunday, 6 September 2009 13:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

Discussions of depression almost always get muddled up by confusing clinical depression, which is a mental health problem, with just being unhappy, which is as common as spit.

The usual cure for unhappiness is to understand the cause of it and to decide you can change it. Since understanding the causes of your unhappiness and correctly identifying what to do to change it are both processes that are prone to error, ignorance and self-delusion, it can take quite a few iterations of this to tip the balance in your favor.

Clinically depressed people, otoh, are incapable of acting to change their situation. They need help.

Aimless, Sunday, 6 September 2009 18:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Clinically depressed people, otoh, are incapable of acting to change their situation. They need help. - yes, the problem is that it is that the line b/c CD & the more situational variety is often so subtle, or the transition so smooth, that it is very difficult to distinguish one from the other, at least not until the CD reaches such ridiculous extremes that it reveals itself for what it is. It is a slippery slope, this depression stuff. Best just to consult a professional from the outset & let them help you sort out what needs to be done.

Pullman/Paxton Revolving Bills (Pillbox), Sunday, 6 September 2009 18:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

This - incapable of acting to change their situation is the crux of the matter.

The sense of hopelessness leads to a sense of helplessness. That learned helplessness, like animals in labs.

That even when you have identified the cause - or at least the principle aggravator - of your depression, you still feel utterly helpless and unable to do anything about it. The feeling of "it does not matter if I move or I don't move, I will be administered an electric shock either way." Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 19:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I just came out of a major CD funk last year & you really do feel helpless & trapped inside an existential catch-22. I hate to think where it would have led to if not for the guidance of those close to me. I came out of it (thank god), but I wish I'd been more hip to what was going on earlier b/c I simply would like all that time back! I'm so scared of heading down that path again that, these days, if I wake up with a normal case of the blues I contemplate calling my doctor.

Pullman/Paxton Revolving Bills (Pillbox), Sunday, 6 September 2009 19:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hell of a lot of times it's been peeps like my awesome husband who basically pack me in a suitcase and drop me off at the therapist when I'm far gone in the depressio camp as I'm obviously too one with my bed & blankets to be functional. OTOH the idea that I'm "incapable of acting to change [my] situation" is one I know is DAMN dangerous. "Change" meaning maybe being able to take a shower, put on real clothes, things I know will put me in a slightly more functional frame.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

On the OTHER other hand there's sometimes the idea that there IS a way to change the situation by a gun to the head. Fuck that. What I'm saying is I realize w/me there's a lot of ideas that are bad that try to settle like birds on my head and I have to shake them before they lay eggs.
I heard this metaphor when I was 16 and it has resulted in this habit of literally shaking my head like a wet dog to connote kicking the damn thing out. Just what I need, another weird tic, right? But it works for me on some level I guess.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

If you are capable of finding the will to get up, take a shower and put on real clothes, all by yourself, then you haven't yet reached the last stage of incapacity, thankfully. But if that is consistently about all you can accomplish before you exhaust your ability to act, then I'd say you should still be considered clinically depressed - which isn't shameful, just important to know and for others around you to recognize, so you can get to the therapist and get more help.

It's not like I am saying you or other depressed people are, by definition, incapable and therefore beyond change, but more of a functional definition, based on current observable behavior, requiring outside intervention and assistance.

btw, I like the shaking your head thing. Sounds effective.

Aimless, Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm more than familiar w/clinical depression, Aimless!

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

Some of this lady's stuff has helped me – DEFS not saying it's a global solution or that it will work for everyone. She has this thing where you set up sort of a living will-type document to tell others (and yourself) how you want to be treated when yr too far gone.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

Ugh, sorry for my stupid revive last night. I understand the distinction between being really bummed out over certain events or circumstances, and the more persistent CD. I wasn't trying to pretend like I'm really depressed, I just wanted to vent and drunkenly went for this one to revive. My post looks pretty stupid sitting up against the legitimate problems that a lot of people were/are discussing in this thread. That said, thanks stevienixed.

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

ZS don't feel bad. fwiw (not saying you did the wrong thing, don't feel embarrassed) this is the thread I post to when I've got that vibe: I'm sad home of Abbott the sad revivalist.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

that's the one. I'd seen it before, I just couldn't remember the name. I need to create a bookmarks folder called "click here when you're in the midst of a downward drunken spiral"

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

The world really is your oyster, ZS. You are the best.

bamcquern, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

Jeez, that's a really nice thing to say, thanks!

Internet! (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

Birds laying eggs in an interesting metaphor, Abbot. I always had the metaphor of "thoughtworms" from that Weather Prophets song. "I've got a worm in my brain, it brings me to my knees, it comes on like a thought, and stays just like a disease."

You think it's a thought, so you think it, but it doesn't go anywhere, it just goes round and round in circles and eats your brain, eats your actual thoughts, sucks the life and soul and happiness and joy right out of your head. It's kind of like a computer virus, but for a sentient brain.

The thoughtworms have been getting cleverer lately - they come on like thoughts about things I genuinely believe, they hide themselves inside philosophy and ideals. But they're still thoughtworms. It's taken some readjustment recently to try and understand that a lot of the things I have been thinking about Feminism are, actually, thoughtworms piggybacking on genuine beliefs to get into my head and destroy shit.

The thing that really gets to me, is how isolated I am. That my family live SO FAR away from me. I realised yesterday that I hadn't talked to my mum in two weeks, and that was part of why I was getting so far down. The thought that there was no one on "my side" at all. Living alone is bad for shit like that.

I used to have the "where does it come from" thread bookmarked for cases of emergency, but that's kind of been ruined now. :-(

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:11 (5 years ago) Permalink

If you are capable of finding the will to get up, take a shower and put on real clothes, all by yourself, then you haven't yet reached the last stage of incapacity, thankfully.

i recommend crawling to the hospital in filthy clothes if this is the case. saved my life once or twice. (not literally crawling, obviously. that would hurt.)

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

(i do recommend researching the hospitals first. though obviously if you've reached a certain point its time to cling to the first passing plank.)

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

When I was an adolescent, my family used to dump me in the Crisis Centre of the nearest Mental Hospital when my behaviour got more than they could handle.

I think this has created a long-lasting fear of ever going to a hospital or calling a help line or anything like that. The fear that I will be taken away and dumped somewhere.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

;_;

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

it's a big fear to overcome. it took a LOT of stamina the first time. in a weird way, though, that was a pretty good indicator of will-to-go-on etc. even in hindsight.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

for real!

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

my dad's mom was mentally ill - probably now she'd be considered bipolar, but this was the 60s - and after both my dad and his sister were off at college, she really lost it, and my grandfather just couldn't deal with it anymore and sent her to a mental institution and divorced her. I think that's probably my greatest fear - that something like that will happen to me, even though my problems aren't nearly as severe as hers.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

the laws for involuntary commitment are a LOT different now. kind of a weird thing to use as a panacea but whatever gets you through the day.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

iirc once you're over 18 your family can't do anything to direct or control your mental health choices

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

If you say that you are having thoughts about killing yourself, they can keep you as long as they like - I mean, until they can prove that you are no longer a danger to yourself.

It;s like this catch 22. I think about suicide all the time. This is normal for me, but usually it's only once or twice a day. When it becomes *constant* when it becomes thinking through methods (even if only to discount the ones I could never ever do because it would be too painful) - i *know* that that is the point at which I *know* I should get some help.

But if I tell anyone in the mental health profession that I'm having serious thoughts of suicide, they are obliged to report that and get me sectioned. Fuck that shit, I'm not going back there. Mental hospitals *make* you crazier than you ever went in.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

maybe u.k./u.s. difference here, but i really don't believe that. different stokes, obvs, regardless of geography.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

(by which i mean i don't want to discount anyone's opinions based on my own experiences, etc.)

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

xp - I don't know whether it was involuntary or not ... my parents and my dad's sister were all outside of the country when it happened. I don't know whether she died there (she died shortly before I was born), or whether she was only there for a little while.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, because of that, it's really important to me to have close friends outside of family/romantic relationships, so that I don't feel alone or dependent on ties to only a few people. My grandmother was the typical post-war housewife, and outside of her family, she had nothing - no real relationships with others, no means of supporting herself, etc.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

What can a hospital do for you if you are in that kind of state?

I'm not asking rhetorically or cynically (though I am probably suspicious due to experiences) but genuinely want to know - I don't know. In the hopes it might be helpful?

I suppose I could just call my doctor and go and say "I'm depressed as fuck - this is a bad one" but what's he gonna do but fuck with my medication, and I don't have the sick time left if it goes wrong. I read that page Abbott recommended, and I suppose I need to follow some of the suggestions there - things I know do work, but I forget when I'm in the thick of it.

-get some more light, leave the house/basement office, stand in the sunshine even if I hate it

-do some light exercise, even if it's just getting on the machine for five minutes, it's better than nothing

I'll do that for a week, and if it hasn't started to lift, I'll go to the doctor.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think as far as hospitalization goes - it's something if you can't take care of yourself (eat, clean, go to work, etc.) or as was mentioned upthread, if you're likely to try to take your own life.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

well for me "going into the hospital" has always been the sort of thing where it's gone beyond "having the sick time." it's a point where work and everything else seems...not even secondary or tertiary. just not even on the game board anymore. i'm not recommending it as a first step at all.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

That's what I like abt that site is she has you think abt what works for you when you're doing ok & then you have this checklist of things you know you need to do when you're so thick in it you can't think or see.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

I suppose it's a good sign that I can still drag myself to work, even if I have been spending a good proportion of the day weeping in the loo. I haven't been that down as Strongo describes since I started this job. I was there in the last job, though. Got through that with booze, I'm sorry to say.

yeah, Abbott - I know all of those things on that list, there's nothing there I don't know. But it's stuff that I *forget* that it is there, or that it works. Or think "no, I'm too far gone for that" but then I remember it really is those little things that get you back from too far gone to hanging in there again.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

I always fantasize abt getting hit by a car to have some 'sick time.' If I went to the hospital here w/a (mental/emotional) problem they'd cuff me to the bed, shove me full of atavan (sp?), charge me $500+ and kick me out. That's just here in Las Cruces, tho, YMMV obviously. No one can get on your case about getting hit by a car.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Got through that with booze, I'm sorry to say.

this.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

I've been using way more alcohol than normal ;_;

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

Kate, I can't remember from previous posts, but how do you feel about counselling/talk therapy/etc? The westminster pastoral foundation - http://www.wpf.org.uk/ - has a network of places that focus on affordable counselling, both short and long term, which might not be immediately useful if you're at the worst of a slump but could be useful in making it manageable.

elephants of style (c sharp major), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

overuse of 'useful' there, marvellous.

elephants of style (c sharp major), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

Couldn't even do booze this time. In fact, booze was what brought this on, had a few whiskies and ended up having a twitter meltdown and broadcasting to the world that I wanted to die. :-( Still depressed and now everyone I know thinks I'm an attention seeking brat.

I have been on the mental health treadmill for 25+ years. At this point, there really isn't anything that any other counsellor could ever say to me or talk me through that would make a difference.

Sometimes I think maybe group therapy would be useful - because it's the isolation that is killing, and the way that "normal people" who have no experience with bipolar disorder just DO. NOT. UNDERSTAND. what the fuck it is like. That maybe talking to other people who go through this on a regular basis would be more helpful.

has anyone here had any good experiences with group therapy or support groups at all?

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

i have to say group therapy freaks me out far more than going to a hospital.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Why? How is it really any different to a thread like this, but without trolls and board lawyers watching?

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

because i'm a writer and more naturally inclined to type than to talk?

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

Makes sense, OK.

I just find that social isolation is one of my biggest problems, and one of the biggest triggers. Writing on the internet, for me (YMMV) often makes me feel more isolated, not less.

I'm just putting this link here to investigate tomorrow when I have a decent connection, it's the British Manic Depressive Fellowship - sorry, Bipolar Organisation.

http://www.mdf.org.uk/

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

For a support group to function, most of the members need to be fairly functional, or they can't offer much support. So, I guess this is a way of saying YMMV. I think that any if a group defined as in "group therapy", the chances are greater that most members of the group are currently a mess.

Aimless, Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

fwiw, a relative of mine's in group therapy and from what she's said I didn't get the impression that it was a group where most were a mess. The problem she was bringing was mostly related to workplace bullying and attendant depression, and it sounded like she got a lot out of talking it out with her group, which suggests to me that the people in it were either pretty functional or at least pretty good at being functional for the purposes of the group.

elephants of style (c sharp major), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

Group therapy: if it sucks, at least you can be taken out of your own inner world for a while by the distraction of what a dipshit everyone else is. Sort of like this Onion article. I've never done group therapy but I think it might be helpful. Ideally in the part of town that isn't the cottage industry of methlabs.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

11 months pass...

... uh oh.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 07:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh?

sarahel, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 07:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah this

shit

'ray Clamence (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 07:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

in september i'm starting an 8-week, cbt-based group therapy program (more goal-oriented than traditional group therapy, so probably not as much aimless whining). my insurance is paying for it, so it couldn't hurt to give it a shot.

diurnal eternal falafel (get bent), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 07:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

but my depression has been okay lately. it's a cliche but the california sun has been good for me.

diurnal eternal falafel (get bent), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 07:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

whatever it takes, good luck with it jody

and if they don't work out doc robert is still on the case jody HE GOT YOU
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0819/study-touts-horse-tranquilizer-ketamine-magic-antidepressant/

Mr. or Ms. Narc-on-the-couch (tremendoid), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 07:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

mine is employment-based, with the revelation that the temp gig i've been in for 3+ weeks might not last 4.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 07:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

i was laid off for a couple months this year, i dont think i got depressed but i had plenty of panic attacks. i manufacture blind optimism but that was running out gradually. not sure therapy would help for a circumstance-based thing like that but i don't know much about that type of thing tbh.

Mr. or Ms. Narc-on-the-couch (tremendoid), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 08:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

are you with a temp agency or freelance? prospects?

Mr. or Ms. Narc-on-the-couch (tremendoid), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 08:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm with several. The irritation is that this is the 2nd gig this summer that abruptly ended.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 14:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

Life may be pointless but that doesn't mean it's meaningless.

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 24 August 2010 15:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

I did join a gym today, so maybe that will help.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Thursday, 26 August 2010 04:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

Kingfish I feel you man. I'm in the same boat atm and it's awful. I don't even have any temp agency prospects right now. Debating taking my MA off my resume and just applying for some retail jobs because fuck I need to do SOMETHING.

o sh!t a ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ (ENBB), Thursday, 26 August 2010 04:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

re, employment-based depressions: i am with a temp agency. several, actually. they give me no work. at the same time, i have bills, which accumulate. perhaps you see the way in which these two factors contribute to my ever increasing anxiety, depression, negative ideation, etc. i compensate by means of avoidance, but this has proved surprisingly unsuccessful. which leaves, ummm, the precipice? always the precipice. yikes...

a dystopian society awaits if we continue on this path. (contenderizer), Thursday, 26 August 2010 04:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

I mean Kingfish, you know how many pictures/anecdotes I post on FB and here of my freakin' dog? Don't get me wrong, he's totally the best, but part of the reason I seem so Benson obsessed is because I spend more time with him than with any humans! If I didn't force myself to like shower and get dressed every day I'd probably just be in bed 24/7. At least the couch isn't technically the bed. UGH.

o sh!t a ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ (ENBB), Thursday, 26 August 2010 04:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh I heard something fantastic from a temp agency recently. They have so many applicants that they're only dealing with ppl who have direct admin experience during the last 6 mo. I've been unemployed for 4 and my job before that was not an administrative position so . . . they are not considering me at all right now despite the nearly TEN YEARS of admin experience I have under my belt.

o sh!t a ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ (ENBB), Thursday, 26 August 2010 04:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

but we all love your dog!

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Thursday, 26 August 2010 05:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

My idea was just to expand the pool of recruiters to call, and then hit them up each 1x a week, and check their sites, etc etc etc

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Thursday, 26 August 2010 05:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

They have so many applicants that they're only dealing with ppl who have direct admin experience during the last 6 mo. I've been unemployed for 4 and my job before that was not an administrative position so . . . they are not considering me at all right now despite the nearly TEN YEARS of admin experience I have under my belt.

familiar w this pattern

a dystopian society awaits if we continue on this path. (contenderizer), Thursday, 26 August 2010 05:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

But don't make a mistake; i still have massive, MASSIVE issues with anger and resentment over this stuff. Also deals with my level of education & experience vs the gigs available.

Since I have no clear target, I turn this shit inward.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Thursday, 26 August 2010 06:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

If I didn't force myself to like shower and get dressed every day I'd probably just be in bed 24/7

This is me lately, have been in bed most of the week watching films and sleeping when i should be looking for work. I just can't be arsed looking anymore.

I have a big family get together at weekend that i was supposed to go to. I've told them i don't want to and now they're disappoint.
I don't want to be surrounded by people who are all jolly and asking me "how's it going" and "have i found work yet, it's all i ever seem to get asked and i'm sick of saying "fine" and "oh nothing yet, but something will pop up".

not_goodwin, Thursday, 26 August 2010 06:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

you can derail the conversation though onto topics you'd prefer to talk about. that's fun sometimes.

sarahel, Thursday, 26 August 2010 07:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Last day was today. Feeling kinda okay. Landlady understood when I told her about it and how i'd only be able to pay 1/2 the rent on time. It helped that I fixed her & her husband's wireless printer. They then invited me back down for dinner tonight.

Already have an appt with a recruiter tomorrow morn. Since what you think determines what you feel, I really did do the repeated affirmation/mantra thing for a little while, and it helps.

ENBB, note that if I had a pug, I be fuckin' wandering around town with him peaking out of my backpack like he was guiding my Jedi training or some shit.

But that's just me.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Friday, 27 August 2010 01:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

OMG gonna see if he'll go in a backpack right now. Will report back.
.

o sh!t a ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ (ENBB), Friday, 27 August 2010 02:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

ENBB, note that if I had a pug, I be fuckin' wandering around town with him peaking out of my backpack like he was guiding my Jedi training or some shit.

This might be possible with some practice but I think he was a little freaked out first time in:

o sh!t a ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ (ENBB), Friday, 27 August 2010 03:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hahah aw.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 27 August 2010 03:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

You should have brought him like that to the Boston FAP.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 27 August 2010 03:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Aw man. If he starts to like it I'm probably just gonna take him everywhere like that tbh.

o sh!t a ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ (ENBB), Friday, 27 August 2010 03:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

benson definitely more terrestrial than marsupial imo

transfixed by pugs whenever i see them

nakhchivan, Friday, 27 August 2010 03:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

they're just not into being like any other dogs

nakhchivan, Friday, 27 August 2010 03:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

YES! STRONG IS THE DARK SIDE, CONTROL YOU IT WILL!

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Friday, 27 August 2010 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

I WOULD be wandering around town, rather

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Friday, 27 August 2010 04:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

LOL, he looks like he's thinking "this is so freaking HUMILIATING, ruff >:| "

<3

I used to lurk on some turtle forums (Trayce), Friday, 27 August 2010 04:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

:D I like how he looks like he's hanging on by the straps. TBH when I first got him in there he was so shocked looking that it was adorable but started wriggling around soon and it was hard to get a good pic.

o sh!t a ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ (ENBB), Friday, 27 August 2010 12:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

<3, he's got a 'price of love' look on his face.

estela, Friday, 27 August 2010 12:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Do you tell your partner how deep your depression is? I want to but can't. He knows I am depressed but not to what extent. The drugs are not effective enough (if at all). Anxiety and very dark cloud still persist. Shld get appoint in september. Tempted to see psychoanalyst tbh. Ooooh the irony.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 01:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Tbh I even feel guilt, as there is noreason to be depressed.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 01:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

why can't you?

moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 28 August 2010 01:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Like I said, guilt. But also, I don't think I want him to know. It would just freak him out. (-> see how having a partner doesn't save you from depression. Used to hope that but realized I was wrong.)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 01:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

That guilt you're feeling is a symptom of the depression. The wonderful thing about the drugs I'm on is not that they get rid of my depression--I still go into bad phases, like the very bad one that I was in for the last few days--but I don't feel like the scum of the earth anymore when I'm depressed.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 02:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah that. and I feel less caught up in/distracted by my emotions (in most cases).

deglovers rock (crüt), Saturday, 28 August 2010 02:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

I wanted to say that the guilt is part of me. But that isn't right. Guess you're right.

Also, man, I have really fucked up sleeping patterns. Awake at 4:30. Then again had a two day migraine attack.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 02:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Do you know what triggered it?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 02:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh yes. No way I can solve it, other than reprogramming myself. Lol. Second time this hit me for the exact same reason.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 02:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

my doctor's advice for insomnia is just not to fight it and roll with it. if you wake up at 4:30, go walk up a hill and watch the sunrise. or make a really luxurious breakfast. and if you can't sleep at 2 am read some long, distracting NYT articles or get some tedious work done, like balance yr checkbook. seems to work for me, it gives me a huge mental energy boost the next day when i do stuff like this so i can deal with the fucked up sleep pattern. i just went back to work (as a high school teacher) after a long summer of daily beach / tennis / cycling / camping / etc. now i am suddenly up until 2 am every night, getting up at 7:30 every day, not doing anything fun / physical / outdoorsy except taking care of new dog. it's tough to stay positive with this type of thing going on - even a "typical" brain would have issues coping - but i think just staying aware of what's going on and reasoning it out helps a lot.

moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 28 August 2010 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

also here's an anecdote

my roommate is a 24 year old teacher who just finished his first year. he's been working at my school for a while as a coach so we're pretty tight. his mom had a stroke at the beginning of his first year which she recovered from but which also left her acutely depressed. his father has a gambling problem. the bank foreclosed on one of their two houses and is threatening the second because their mortgage. his sister is in her 9th year of an endless communications major which mom keeps shelling out for (including rent) and his brother and father just lost their jobs. so he's moving back home tomorrow because he figures that's close to $1000 he can give back to his parents, but he's real upset about the whole thing - it's been brewing all year since the stroke, and he also had to deal with some crazy shit where his teaching partner had a manic depressive episode that resulted in getting fired midyear (that was tough for the entire staff - as a charter school we're a bit of a high-pressure environment)

so anyway, i urged him at the midpoint of last year to use our medical benefits to see a therapist weekly. and lo and behold, it's been working for him, and now he's planning to bring his parents in with him because weekly family therapy is also covered under our plan. and he has a plan for including his mom in his training routine (he's a triathlete) to get her outside and doing stuff instead of watching TV and crying, and he's going to try to figure out something for dad too.

in short, he's a superhero, because he's doing everything humanly possible to get help and support (emotional and material) for himself and his family.

and last night, he was really unhappy, and i asked him what was wrong, and he said "well, i had to admit to my mom i was seeing a therapist when i asked her to come with me".

so yeah, guilt runs deep, even in the best people, but feeling guilty about telling your partner about your problems makes about as much sense.

also, i understand your fear. my marriage imploded because my ex-wife and i weren't able to talk through our mutual problems with depression. and her interpretation of events is still "that i couldn't deal with her depression". but the truth is that she refused to get help, and i had to leave, because it wasn't healthy for me to be taking sole responsibility for our relationship. one person can't be doing all the work. so sharing the problem is OK, but only if you do it with a plan to get help, and you include your partner in that plan, and show respect for their efforts. if they don't want to help, then you have to wonder what kind of "loved one" they really are ...

moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 28 August 2010 04:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

and yeah, now i've been seeing a really amazing girl for a year, and i've done all sorts of crazy stuff i've wanted to do my whole life but i've always been scared to, and we started things out by communicating really clearly and frankly about my problems, and what i'm doing to address them and how she can support me in that effort, and how i can respect her support by in turn supporting her.

so i say go ahead and tell your partner.

moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 28 August 2010 04:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

sorry to get all soapbox-y on you, just try to stay positive, remember that if someone you knew wanted to tell their partner something but felt like they couldn't they'd feel pretty depressed, remember that you **can** reprogram your brain but that you should also accept your own differences, and good luck sorting it out

moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 28 August 2010 04:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Fucked up sleeping patterns can become the egg to depression's chicken, if that makes sense. Try to get regular sleep, it's really essential. Back in January, I got on a vicious cycle of insomnia due to bad dreams (night time flashbacks) leading to daytime exhaustion which led to more flashbacks and a fear of sleeping due to nightmares, etc. I know that was just me, but I imagine I'm not completely alone in that.

Oh, exercise is what dragged me out of the pattern -- combination yoga and cardio.

(xposts w/ moonship)

Lostandfound, Saturday, 28 August 2010 04:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

moonship otm, tho

Lostandfound, Saturday, 28 August 2010 05:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Depression fucking terrifies me, quite honestly. And I deal with PTSD symptoms pretty much daily.

Lostandfound, Saturday, 28 August 2010 05:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

pretty sure this section of my biography will be titled "in which: rent money becomes booze"

ITS YA BOY (zorn_bond.mp3), Saturday, 28 August 2010 07:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

"so the rent became whiskey / and then my life became risky" - silver jews

diurnal eternal falafel (get bent), Saturday, 28 August 2010 07:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

moonship, you're so otm. thanks for all the advice. :-)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 09:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

there is noreason to be depressed

I wish there was a way that it could be made clearer that this absolutely doesn't matter. Depression isn't necessarily circumstantial (though circumstances can exacerbate or prolong it, obviously). It's the self-reflexive version of "pull yourself together", that it shouldn't be there and you can just look at your shit and say "there's no reason for this". It's there in and of itself, regardless of circumstances.

Nath, I should qualify this as a general observation and absolutely not a criticism of your feelings - I've beaten myself up about it often enough to know that it's a perfectly normal reaction, to try and justify stuff to yourself, and self-blame is the easiest trap in the world to fall into when you aren't seeing straight.

ailsa, Saturday, 28 August 2010 09:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

Right. A good percentage of depression is caused by bad brain chemistry.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 11:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

The thing is, I look from the outside and see the depression. I also realize, even from an outside view, I am really not seeing straight. I see all the symptoms and feel like a walking cliche (half-jokingly): tiredness, disinterest, guilt, playing with suicidal thoughts,... Most of all I just want to sleep and sleep and sleep. I feel like I am trapped somehow. The crux is that this can't be completely helped, it is in my nature. But of course not to this degree. I realize this is not healthy at all.

I literally walk into a room and am convinced I am the stupidest person.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 12:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ailsa, thank you. I agree but then I look at my life and still think I shouldn't be feeling this way. I perfectly nderstand when it's someone else, just not for me. I need a psychoanalyst cause I know where it comes from (in part). lol

Also, after rereading this thread I realize I've been walking around with this "baggage" for a VERY long time. Urgh.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 12:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

The crux is that this can't be completely helped

But it can be dealt with. Please do (I think you know this).

ailsa, Saturday, 28 August 2010 13:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

I will. Promise.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 13:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nathalie, psychoanalysis takes a long time and can be very expensive. There's also the danger of running into someone with quack theories and/or someone on a power trip, so be very careful. (If they start talking about repressed memories, RUN.)

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 13:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

(And when I say run, I mean run--walk out in the middle of the session if you have to. It is trivially easy to make people believe false memories. )

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 13:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and please keep us in touch with your progress.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 13:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

love you, nath! see someone. get help. talk to people. there are people who can help.

scott seward, Saturday, 28 August 2010 13:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Argh, Nath, I tried to webmail you earlier but it didn't work as I was on the bus and my iPhone didn't want to play ball.

You know that I've had a mixed experience with drugs and with therapy. If drugs work for you, that's great. But if they don't - or if they initially help, and then stop working, it's a really bad idea to just stay on them and not try something else. If, six months down the line, you feel as bad as you did before (or worse - because some drugs, especially SSRIs can make people feel worse, long term) then try something else.

I do kind of have a suggestion, based on my own recent experiences, though! I was recently put on beta blockers for my migraines - it is early days, but I have noticed a side effect of massive reductions of anxiety - especially social anxiety.

I mean, I went to a FAP (without drinking) for the first time in a couple of years and stayed for a few hours and it was fine! Under normal circumstances, I would be convinced everyone HAAAATES me, or convinced that no one wants me around, or just feel awkward (your description of feeling "the stupidest person in the room" really chimes with me - though, with me, it was more like "I'm the ugliest person in the room, the the most useless person in the room, the least likeable person in this room" and either have to leave, or more likely just not have got there in the first place without drinking huge amounts first. But it sounds like the same voice.) This, I think is anxiety as much as it is depression.

(At least, I suspect it may be, in mine own circumstances. I'm fine if I have something to do in the situation, but if I'm just there to be social, I feel incapable. This makes me feel isolated. Feeling isolated makes me feel depressed and suicidal and want to sleep all the time.)

Like I said, I was put on beta blockers for migraines (which I know you get as well) but so far they have mainly helped with the anxiety, and because the anxiety has lifted, I'm less depressed. I don't know if this is permanent, or if it's a temporary side effect that will wear off, but it's really helped. It might be something worth mentioning to your doctor, to see if you can switch because I know that you have mentioned both migraines and panic attacks/anxiety before - and this stuff does seem to help with both of those things.

Hope that things improve for you.

Karen D. Tregaskin, Saturday, 28 August 2010 14:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

Reading this thread as a lurker has been really helping me in the "u r not alone" sweepstakes. I just went off SSRIs for the first time in about 7 years, for no other reason than I'm taking other medications right now, for blood pressure and other things, and wanted to reduce my pharmacopeia by one. It's been a hell of an adjustment and I've been having a really tough time coping. Seems the only things I feel strongly right now are anxiety and anger. :(

a mix of music (Lionel Ritchie) and kicks (my tongue) (Phil D.), Saturday, 28 August 2010 14:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

OMG, coming off SSRIs was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Reduction and spacing them out is urgent and key. But yeah. Even after the withdrawal wears off, there's this "OMG, EMOTIONS!!! and they're not very nice ones!" like you've been sitting in one position too long and the pins and needles are almost unbearable. But that's what it is. Your brain readjusting. Really hope that things go OK for you, Phil.

Karen D. Tregaskin, Saturday, 28 August 2010 14:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ugh. I did step down, but my last week, and the first full week without them, were fucking miserable. It felt like the worst hangover ever x1,000, 24 hours a day.

a mix of music (Lionel Ritchie) and kicks (my tongue) (Phil D.), Saturday, 28 August 2010 14:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, it's possible to get too used to feeling normal.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 14:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

No, no, that way lies PAIN. Seriously! I tried about 3 or 4 times to get off them that way, and within a week or two I'd have stabbed my grandmother to go back on them. Reduce, reduce, reduce. Go down 10 mg at a time and spend at least a week or two at each lower level. Once you're on 10mg, start spacing them out longer and longer, like take 2 pills every 3 days, then space them longer and longer. It took me two months to get off them, you have to train your brain to function without them, and to let your brain adjust and make serotonin for itself. It made a lot more sense to me after I read the brain chemistry of the stuff, why it's so hard to come off. Cold turkey is so not a good idea!

x-post

Karen D. Tregaskin, Saturday, 28 August 2010 14:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Or just tell your doctor that you want to get off of them (which you should be doing anyway) and have him/her develop a taper-off plan. (Incidently, I took Paxil for a year in the early Nineties, stopped cold turkey, and had none of the symptoms that you are mentioning.)

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 15:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Brains & drugs: one size does not fit all. Your mileage may vary.

Karen D. Tregaskin, Saturday, 28 August 2010 16:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

Karen, I am too afraid of betablockers tbh. :-(

Scott, love you, dude. :-)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Saturday, 28 August 2010 16:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

Betablockers are good, I had them for anxiety a few years ago, and they really helped. Or I should say they were good *for me*, since experiences can obviously vary.

ailsa, Saturday, 28 August 2010 16:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dunno - i feel like if you feel really numb and are not having emotions while on SSRIs then you are either on the wrong meds or taking too much.

sarahel, Saturday, 28 August 2010 20:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

Has anyone here had any experiences with the diabolical 'serotonin syndrome?'

I resumed taking Zoloft last month, after about a year of being off SSRIs, & my pcp advised me to start w/ a slightly higher dosage than I had taken the last time I acclimated to it. On the third or fourth day, I started to feel a bit dizzy and nauseous. I assumed these were textbook side effects (while I hadn't had such a reaction before, I was a bit hung over that day tbh), so I decided to take a nap. I woke up around two hours later from a fever dream, completely drenched in sweat & mess of chills & involuntary leg movements. I was also experiencing delirium to some degree. Thankfully I was able to quickly contact my sister, a licensed pharmacist - she knew immediately what was happening & talked me through it. I was literally getting ready to leave for the emergency room when it started to subside. The effects diminished considerably in the short-term, but it took over 24 hours to them to completely subside.

I cut back my dosage to the same amount I was on when I originally started taking Zoloft & have been fine since, so I'm hoping it was just a freak occurrence. Still it was actually a pretty terrifying thing to undergo, even if only briefly. Would not recommend..

Baluchistan of Landscape Avocado (Pillbox), Saturday, 28 August 2010 20:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

god, that's scary! I haven't experienced that - though I was briefly on Zoloft years ago and it didn't really work for me - for whatever reason, it just made me really angry. I don't really get any weird side effects w/Paxil.

sarahel, Saturday, 28 August 2010 20:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

that is odd - Zoloft makes me decidedly not angry (or generally consumed by self-loathing etc.) which means it is doing the trick, I suppose (when it is not to kill me!).

Baluchistan of Landscape Avocado (Pillbox), Saturday, 28 August 2010 21:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pillbox: You are lucky to be alive. Very lucky. What other medications do you take? Any herbal medications ?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

No experience with serotonin syndrome, but I've read the warnings. That is serious fucking business; I'm glad you got medical attention right away.

Weirdest side effects I've had other than the boring ones like constantly fluctuating weight, tiredness, etc have been the "brain shocks" and others from Lexapro withdrawal. Even while tapering the dosage, I got the zaps and this weird disconnected feeling that's hard to describe (and that I seriously hope I never have to deal with again, not fun).

Prozac is doing OK for me right now, or it seems to be, anyway. I still can't really enjoy anything and have trouble leaving my apartment, but at least I'm not locking myself in the employee bathroom and sobbing for hours at work. Little steps, and all that shit.

a black white asian pine ghost who is fake (Telephone thing), Saturday, 28 August 2010 21:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm really, really happy to hear that, TT.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 28 August 2010 21:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

is there a difference between which SSRIs are generally prescribed for men vs. women? For some reason, I think that Lexapro tends to be prescribed more often to men because it has less severe sexual side effects.

sarahel, Saturday, 28 August 2010 21:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

man, fuck SSRIs. i've been managing my depression with them for 12 years now and i've tried going off to no avail for half of that time, never lasted more than six months

scariest part is potentially long-term sexual side effects, ie PE when i'm off and ED when i'm on

current workaround is a maintenance dose of 5-10 mg of paxil (works for me), lots of omega-3 oils (ocean fish and/or legumes everyday), replacing carbs with fresh vegetables, daily exercise, lots of time in the outdoors, mentoring my younger relatives and colleagues, etc

also i've been doing CBT for 12 years, maybe its a natural fit for me because i teach high school and we basically use CBT to manage and motivate our students

our sessions are mostly focused around career and personal goal-setting these days rather than managing anxiety attacks, though i still get those weekly, working on turning that energy into positive motivation

i'm also using herbs but with the awareness that they just complement - not replace - all those other strategies and resources and that i really needed good meds for that initial intervention

so yeah there's a way out of SSRIs but like any other massive lifestyle change it's definitely best approached real gradual and one step at a time

moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 28 August 2010 21:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've gone off ssris three times in the past five years but I always end up back on. Last time was just a few months ago...It wasn't too bad going off them, but then after a couple months, I gave up. I could make it through the day okay without 'em, but I just found myself revisiting old (extremely negative) thought patterns and generally I was mired in misery much of the time. So fuck it.

I find it difficult to accept that I might be on them for the rest of my life, though.

Falkor Johnson (askance johnson), Saturday, 28 August 2010 22:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

way way xp to Christine

Yeah, the way my sister described it, serotonin syndrome basically has a snowball effect to the degree that a slight imbalance can escalate to such a degree that one could be particularly susceptible to a stroke or cardiac arrest. Thankfully, the effect usually stops short of such extremes, but it is esp. tricky b/c there isn't really a way to correlate the ratio b/w overdose & consequence. In my case, like I said, I was just about to call for a ride to the ER when it scaled back considerably & my heart rate & blood pressure responded in kind. I guess maybe I should keep some kind of sedative at hand, in case it happens again, tho the opinions I've gotten & my own research suggests that it is not something one might be esp. prone to - it is literally sort of a freak occurrence.

I will probably wean myself back off the SSRIs down the road a bit, anyway. I am prone to clinical depression, but I can often keep it in check w/ diet & exercise & other lifestyle factors. Bet every so often I find myself in a trench & just need something to grease the wheel, so to speak. Aside from the one (admittedly awful) incident, the Zoloft has actually helped me considerably when I've needed it.

To answer your question: I am also an ADD basket-case, so I take Adderall (tho I hadn't taken any on the day of the incident). I take Claritin fairly regularly for allergies. In terms of herbal supplements, I take one or two Ginkgo Biloba capsules daily & sometimes I drink a lot of Yerba Mate. Vitamins, minerals & such I try to get from food as much as possible. I drink more alcohol than I should & I occasionally smoke weed. Sorry if all this is TMI or whatever, but if you have any suggestions, I would certainly be interested to hear them. Right now, I am sort of depending on the Zoloft, but Christ I do not want to have any more experiences like ^

Baluchistan of Landscape Avocado (Pillbox), Saturday, 28 August 2010 22:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

I had something really fucking weird happen one time when I was on Zoloft and ate maybe too many hash cookies and that started with a racing heart, shivering, legs twitching uncontrollably. Still, no THC on the wikipedia article for "serotonin syndrome", but, fuck. I thought I was dying and considered calling an ambulance and then I thought "well of course you're just being paranoid, duh, let's not make this any worse than it already is". Then I kept blacking out, like I'd know I'd been doing stuff because I'd be in a different place, but have no memory of the past two hours; repeat.

Anyhow I am probably just looking for something to blame for a moronic teenage overindulgence and attendant freakout, but, fuck.

(I have not really told anyone this before because it sounds so fucking dumb but I am kind of startled that it actually might have been potentially serious. I am OK though! And it probably wasn't that at all! Seeing as it is not a listed combination on the wikipedia and all!)

Man I hope this will not be the last post on this thread as I am sure to regret posting this in the morning, but...

vampire headphase (a passing spacecadet), Saturday, 28 August 2010 23:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sounds like you have good reason to be concerned, despite the absence of THC in the Wiki article. No weed/hash paranoia I know of includes uncontrollable leg twitching and blackouts! you weren't drinking alcohol at the time?

Replying partly so you don't regret posting. ;)

Lostandfound, Saturday, 28 August 2010 23:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

imho sounds pretty hard to separate what happened from garden variety paranoia, i've had racing heart and shaking hands too

i had bad experiences whenever I'd miss my lexapro. i'd walk around with my head perfectly still because when i'd turn my head it felt like my brain was turning slower than my eyes and then when i'd stop my brain felt like it was still turning

if anybody's having similar issues i'd recommend just try switching to an equal dose of celexa instead of tapering off ... can't be any worse!

moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 28 August 2010 23:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also a hell of a lot cheaper since celexa has a generic. FWIW for the curious: the dosage on celexa is 2x the dosage of lexapro. (40 mg celexa = 20 mg lexapro)

sharkless dick stick (Abbbottt), Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

as far as acceptance most of us don't regret our addiction to eyeglasses, eczema cream or supportive footwear and I just figure ssri's maybe are just a form of mental hygeine that we're starting to understand

moonship journey to baja, Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

well, it is a pretty basic chemical function that they serve.

Baluchistan of Landscape Avocado (Pillbox), Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I can't recommend strongly enough working with your doctor if you want to get off anti-depressants. There is no possible way to do it too slowly or gingerly, imo. Seriously, this shit goes best if you work with a sympathetic professional who knows what they're doing! This goes not just SSRIs but any mental health med. Getting off SSRIs was a like petting a pile of puppies compared to tapering off Lamictal. Dear God.

My doc was really nice about it, and even following her advice I still had a seizure from going off Lamictal the last week I was working on tapering off. Scary. But, ultimately, it worked out OK. I don't think I ever should have been put on Lamictal in the first place tbh.

I was ANGRY six months later when I went to a doctor for the flu or something like that. He saw in my records what meds I used to be on, and started just chastising me and telling me I was a bad and irresponsible person for "refusing to take my meds." When I hadn't talked to him 1x the whole time about the situation (the doctor I had been seeing for my mental health was at a free clinic, this dude was not). It was just so presumptuous and entitled. I just needed to complain to someone about that, sorry guys!

sharkless dick stick (Abbbottt), Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

the bullshit is rooted in side-effects & social stigmas

xp

Baluchistan of Landscape Avocado (Pillbox), Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

(couple xposts)

Racing heart and shaking hands, sure; leg twitching and blackouts, not so much, but ymmv.

I was on Celexa for a short time, no real problems with it*, although it had a reputation for leading to suicidal ideation/behaviour at the time.

*Except, when tapering off, I had a similar experience to moonship I called brain taffy, whereby my brain felt like it would occasionally stretch out in a weird kind of slo-mo.

Lostandfound, Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Just a quick reply (I'm going to look up Pillbox's meds in Medscape sometime tonight). Will you all please stop acting as if SSRIs are just another bad habit to break rather than a medication that may be vital to your health? First off, SSRIs do not = antidepressants. Second off, if you feel better on them, barring any troublesome side effects, then stay on them, for heaven's sake. Don't get off of them just because of some misguided desire for A Drug Free Life.

Look, I'm sorry for that rant, but it's just something that's been building up for a while.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and Abbott, I started writing that reply before your recent post, so if I hurt you, I'm sorry.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hahaha, no, not at all. It's not like you jumped to any fucked-up conclusions about me, plus also you are not my doctor.

sharkless dick stick (Abbbottt), Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

I went off my meds because after four years of taking them & doing therapy both me & a doctor & my therapist all decided I did not need them at this point in my life. I'm comfortable w/my decision.

sharkless dick stick (Abbbottt), Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

I totally think people should make whatever decision is best for them! And that they should make it with the help of professionals who know about the person & about the meds in question. I hope I did not make anyone feel like it's time to get off the anti-depressant train. I don't have an agenda except people having the best possible mental health! Which, if that means taking whatever helps, that's great that you found a helpful solution! Nothing to feel guilty about.

sharkless dick stick (Abbbottt), Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

i usually wanted to stop because I hated the side effects - lethargy, weight gain, sex dysfunction, etc

but yeah, i've learned that means adjusting my dose and/or rotating my meds

moonship journey to baja, Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

That's a different thing that you're talking about--you made that decision on the advice of a professional. I've seen people get talked/talk themselves off their meds before, often with horrible results.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 29 August 2010 00:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

I have had a bad week and I feel so weird right now.

doya (crüt), Sunday, 29 August 2010 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe I should smoke a cigarette. I have some and I have been good about not getting back into the habit when I do smoke the occasional cig.

doya (crüt), Sunday, 29 August 2010 20:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe you should put on some music and see how many jumping jacks you can do

moonship journey to baja, Monday, 30 August 2010 03:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

That shivering, twitching thing described upthread happened to me once when I was coming down off LSD (no antidepressants involved). I searched it up but it wasn't 100% conclusive what it was. It was very, very unpleasant and I had read enough about serotonin syndrome to assume this was what I'd managed to do to myself, which made it much, much worse. I don't know if it was shivering or some kind of tremor. Terrible shit.

fields of salmon, Monday, 30 August 2010 04:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

"I have had a bad week and I feel so weird right now."

Hugs,dude. How do you feel weird?

Stopped smoking the day I took my first pill (sipralexa). I was so nauseous, I couldn't do anything but lie down. It's been great so far. Decided I had to quit cause my husband was going to as well. I have been smoking off and on for the last seven years. I still don't consider myself a smoker weirdly. But I never do the occasional cigarette anymore, cause I know by the end of the month I'm doing almost a pack. I miss it but otoh I am happy to be an ex-smoker.

Anyway, decided after the advice here, to do some sports. Although I hate running, I think I'm gonna give it another try. Or at least do some major walking.

My mom's been asking how things are. For the first time in my life I have decided not to tell her anything. So nothing about the pills. I told her several times before I had anxiety attacks and felt depressed, but she never took it really serioulsy. So why make her worry now? She's too far away (in Japan) and can't do much.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Monday, 30 August 2010 09:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

is there a difference between which SSRIs are generally prescribed for men vs. women? For some reason, I think that Lexapro tends to be prescribed more often to men because it has less severe sexual side effects.

female lexapro taker here. i kinda hate it, but it's worked better than anything else i've tried. i think my doctor only put me on it because that's what the drug rep happened to be pushing that month.

diurnal eternal falafel (get bent), Monday, 30 August 2010 09:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

did i say i *kinda* hate it? i really hate it. i hate the side effects (mostly weight gain) and i hate how shitty i feel when i have to be without it for even a few days. more generally, i hate dealing with doctors and insurers and pharmacists and the whole stupid circus every month when i need a refill or whatever.

*camera 2, close up* THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!

diurnal eternal falafel (get bent), Monday, 30 August 2010 10:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Welcome to the world of chronic illnesses. At least you don't have to go through dialysis or chemotherapy.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 13:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

My parents are medicated for the first time in their lives and it's doing a world of good, afaik. My mom has had depression/social anxiety issues to an extent for most of her adult life and my dad is an anxiety addict who has some obsessive-type habits.

I went on celexa at the end of last year when I finally admitted I was at the end of my rope. Still going to get into talk therapy "at some point," which actually seems the truth now and not some sort of excuse. Basically, having the chemical balance shift at the same time I was making huge life changes made me a lot more confident so it was a partial red herring that made me put off completing the mental health puzzle.

I've been fucking things up a little the last few weeks because I've gone back to dating after a year hiatus and celexa can cause... hell, is it called anorgasmia in men? I think it's called "retarded ejaculation" or somesuch. So I've been staggering pills at 36 hour intervals and it's starting to catch up to me, especially since I've been drinking a bit more.

Pre-SSRIs, if I was a touch hungover I would get a thought or a song stuck in my head and lay awake at 4am after the alcohol cleared my system and be unable to fall asleep. This kicked in again the other day, although thankfully not until 8AM.

mh, Monday, 30 August 2010 14:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

I believe retarded ejaculation is a normal orgasm where the semen is retained by the body.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 15:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

nah, that's retrograde

mh, Monday, 30 August 2010 16:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yes, that was the word I was trying to think of.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 16:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

Feel better now. Fixed my car with the assistance of a friend last night, have an interview tomorrow, might have another one lined up. Much of the weekend was taken over by stress & anxiety & feeling-shittyness from the stupid engine trouble, and whether I would be able to afford to or just fix the car in time to motor the 40 mins out to the interview tomorrow.

turns out I was able to, and my buddy stopped by to help me fix a spark plug I couldn't reach, and everything worked.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Monday, 30 August 2010 16:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

that's a good feeling! for me - it's like the small incidents like that come to symbolize a larger threat, a feeling of never being able to win or have control, etc. I had a similar thing happen a few months back when I had a problem with my toilet (which my ex was the one to fix when we were together), and i managed to figure out how to fix it, and after that i felt a lot less anxious about my life, the break up, etc.

sarahel, Monday, 30 August 2010 17:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

BTW, I left my IPod's charging cord at home today (I'm at work, watching my patient pretend to eat), so my posting will be sporadic until later on tonight.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 17:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ha. That's why I wound up buying 3 cords. one for the house, one for the auto, one for the desk.

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Monday, 30 August 2010 18:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

So I've been staggering pills at 36 hour intervals and it's starting to catch up to me, especially since I've been drinking a bit more.

the pills are timed to release every 24 hours. let's say you are taking 30 mg a day and you try to cut down to 20 mg a day by increasing the interval to 36 hours all you're really doing is getting your normal dose for 24 hrs and then going unmedicated for 12 hours. i'd check with your doctor, you would probably be much better off just getting a pill cutter or a lower dosage.

moonship journey to baja, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

all you're really doing is getting your normal dose for 24 hrs and then going unmedicated for 12 hours

doesn't take into account serum levels

, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

A pill cutter won't work with an extended release pill, though.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok so you guys are seriously saying stretching out the interval is a better idea than taking a lower dose?

moonship journey to baja, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

up to a point yeah

, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

well, i mean, get down to the lowest practical dose first

, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok so you guys are seriously saying stretching out the interval is a better idea than taking a lower dose?

I'm not saying that. I just looked it up in Medscape--its peak plasma level only lasts 2-4 hours.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait are we still talking abt lexapro

, Monday, 30 August 2010 18:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

No, we're talking about Celexa now.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh. are almost the same thing tho, lexapro is just the active isomer of celexa. wikipedia sez the half-life is 35 hours, which i'd think would be more relevant than peak plasma concentration, particularly as if you've been taking it for any length of time you have a plasma level that should make the peaks and valleys not really a thing if yr taking it every 36 hours.

but it's been a while since i've been on ssri's so someone who is would know more abt the subjective effects.

, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

but I'm gonna be having sex for that 12 hours so I'm not going to care, right?

(kidding)

mh, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

dude my problem with too high of a dose was that it took 12 hours to finish

moonship journey to baja, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm on Wellbutrin, which *increases* sexual desire, at least in women. The thing I've noticed with it is that I feel a little less sensation during sex but stronger orgasms at the end. (And I can move myself much longer along the way just by mental imagery than I used to.)

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh. are almost the same thing tho, lexapro is just the active isomer of celexa. wikipedia sez the half-life is 35 hours, which i'd think would be more relevant than peak plasma concentration, particularly as if you've been taking it for any length of time you have a plasma level that should make the peaks and valleys not really a thing if yr taking it every 36 hours.

It depends on how narrow the therapeutic range is. (I'm on lithium, which has a very, very narrow range, so I'm probably a little more conscious of this than you all are.)

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

dude my problem with too high of a dose was that it took 12 hours to finish

this is pretty much what I was talking about upthread

mh, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

cognitive therapy all the way man

Latham Green, Tuesday, 31 August 2010 03:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok so you guys are seriously saying stretching out the interval is a better idea than taking a lower dose?

These questions require a doctor.

elan, Tuesday, 31 August 2010 04:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm on Wellbutrin, which *increases* sexual desire, at least in women.

i remember a doctor telling me that when i tried it briefly! i, erm, didn't notice any difference.

diurnal eternal falafel (get bent), Tuesday, 31 August 2010 06:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

It doesn't have that effect on everyone.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 31 August 2010 06:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

These questions require a doctor.

I'm the only one out of all of the medical personnel that post to ILX that's bothered to post to this thread. And I'm the least qualified out of all of them.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 31 August 2010 06:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

And that's really too bad.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 31 August 2010 07:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

so i was on 50mg of lexapro before and i went down to 30 a couple months ago b/c of side effects. yesterday my new doctor pushed me back up to 40. why yes, i'd love to spend labor day weekend adjusting to a dosage increase!

the good news is: welcome back to my arsenal, xanax! i've missed you so.

corn smut (get bent), Saturday, 4 September 2010 00:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

got prescribed lexapro in like october (of 09 holy fuck) and was still finishing that bottle as of june. ran out sometime in july. considering refilling? cause i mean...it's cheaper than whiskey every night. i know this feeling. the whole "i hate my job, what am i doing with my life, i will drink it away every single night and lose track of the days" thing. done it before, and i recognize its resurgence. would rather not.

ITS YA BOY (zorn_bond.mp3), Saturday, 4 September 2010 01:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

mookieproof, Monday, 6 September 2010 07:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

lucy, typical neurotypical.

corn smut (get bent), Monday, 6 September 2010 08:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

The numbness in my brain that I'd been having for a couple of days has resolved itself into an odd light feeling and a tendency to ramble on with whatever's in my brain (online, too). I'm assuming that I'd be having a hypomanic episode if I wasn't on lithium.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 6 September 2010 14:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Fifty days of Fluoxetine (20mg), how much better should I feel in your collective experiences? I don't feel as awful as I did, but I certainly don't feel "good" by any stretch.

get the fuck out of my mouth (boxedjoy), Monday, 6 September 2010 17:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

I love that Peanuts cartoon.

tricked by a toothless cobra, Monday, 6 September 2010 17:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

IME antidepressants don't make me feel "good," they just make me *feel*, period. Like a normal person--ups and downs both.

quincie, Monday, 6 September 2010 21:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Like, there is no shiny happy people moment. That's why I never understood when people objected to antidepressants as making one feel artificially up or whatever.

quincie, Monday, 6 September 2010 21:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think it just depends on the person and the medication/dosage ... i've posted about my experience already - that the dosage of Paxil i'm on just makes me feel what i imagine normal is like - being sad, but being able to distract yourself, rebound, etc.

sarahel, Monday, 6 September 2010 21:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

I still feel pretty glum and lethargic, although not as bad as I did before I started taking them. I'm sleeping better, and I don't feel like I'm on the verge of upset constantly, which are both real upsides, but I was kinda naively hoping they would do a little more for me.

get the fuck out of my mouth (boxedjoy), Monday, 6 September 2010 22:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

my recent emotional episodes have left me rather drained, but one good side effect is that i have had more free time. i wrote a poem of my feelings. i'd like to share it with you if you don't mind:

Dog days of summer
Winding down, winding down
I hear the ice cream truck
Making its last rounds

This twilight time
This transitional hour
More bitter than milk going sour

More tragic than a dying child
Depressinger than going out of style

I find myself at a crossroads
Staring at the dark ahead
But then I look at the light that surrounds me
And wish I could stay here instead.

banaka, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 07:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

i have been taking my mother's prozac (i'm staying at my parents' for the week), but i feel like the certainty i had when i was brainwashed was so much more comforting than the uncertainty i feel now.

banaka, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 07:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Banaka, have you been diagnosed with depression in the past? Any other mental illness? Have you taken Prozac before? What kind of uncertainty do you feel?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 08:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

Is it a good idea to just take it without a doctor prescribing it?

My anxiety has gone down. I still feel anxious, but in a normal way. That said, I feel like it's in a drawer waiting to pop out. lol.

Thing is, should I see a psychiatrist? Or a psychologist? Not sure. I definitely want to prolong my usage of meds.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 7 September 2010 09:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

Is it a good idea to just take it without a doctor prescribing it?

The thing that worries me about Banaka is that he seems to have something other than garden-variety clinical depression going on, and Prozac may do him more harm than good.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 09:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

My anxiety has gone down. I still feel anxious, but in a normal way. That said, I feel like it's in a drawer waiting to pop out. lol.

Thing is, should I see a psychiatrist? Or a psychologist? Not sure. I definitely want to prolong my usage of meds.

A psychiatrist can prescribe meds, a psychologist can't. I forgot, are you just seeing a regular doctor for your anxiety?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 09:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yes, which my friend doesn't like at all. He just prescribed me some light anti-anxiety meds. She thinks I should see a psychiatrist instead of a regular doctor (and therapist). Not sure the difference between a psychologist and psychiatrist (aside from the fact the latter can prescribe meds which the former can't do). Do psychiatrist do therapy? Any advice is hugely appreciated. :-(

Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 7 September 2010 11:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

I really can't help you there, I've been getting along with just a doctor until just recently--a psychiatrist comes to the county clinic I go to once a month or two now. She reviews my meds, listens to me talk a bit, and writes me some prescriptions. You'd be seeing yours more often.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 12:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

In my experience, most psychiatrists don't do therapy and will refer you to a psychologist for the non-pharmaceutical aspects of treatment.

a black white asian pine ghost who is fake (Telephone thing), Tuesday, 7 September 2010 13:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

i know this feeling. the whole "i hate my job, what am i doing with my life, i will drink it away every single night and lose track of the days" thing. done it before, and i recognize its resurgence. would rather not.

― ITS YA BOY (zorn_bond.mp3), Saturday, September 4, 2010 2:26 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark

apparently since friday i have gone far enough down the rabbit hole that this already feels like a warning from SPOCK OF THE FUTURE

friends don't understand us, adults don't understand us (zorn_bond.mp3), Wednesday, 8 September 2010 01:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Seek help, for realz. Once you get good at recognizing the warning signs, you really need to act before things get worse worse worse and you can no longer act at all.

quincie, Thursday, 9 September 2010 00:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

I mean duh you know this, but just trying to offer my internets encouragement or whatnot.

quincie, Thursday, 9 September 2010 00:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait - are you getting drunk as a means of dealing with depression? Bad bad bad bad bad idea. I've been there. The depression doesn't go away, you just end up with depression + a drinking problem.

sarahel, Thursday, 9 September 2010 00:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^^^ ditto, self-medicating not a good idea.

quincie, Thursday, 9 September 2010 00:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Right. Alcohol is a depressant.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Thursday, 9 September 2010 01:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

co-signed. the other thing alcohol does is really fuck up your decision making. had to force myself away during my bouts.

It really sucks that intelligent people with excellent taste in music are all suffering when there are plenty of useless douchebags I know who are perfectly comfortable with themselves :/.

stay strong to all who are posting here with heavy hearts and tense minds!

Bo Jackson Cruise Control (San Te), Thursday, 9 September 2010 03:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

alcohol is a depressant fyi

― BIG HOOS is the coxsteen of that particular groop (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:38 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark

this motherfucker knows whats up

friends don't understand us, adults don't understand us (zorn_bond.mp3), Thursday, 9 September 2010 03:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Fifty days of Fluoxetine (20mg), how much better should I feel in your collective experiences? I don't feel as awful as I did, but I certainly don't feel "good" by any stretch.

― get the fuck out of my mouth (boxedjoy), Monday, 6 September 2010 18:10 (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I take something similar (Sertraline, 100mg daily) and yeah, its p much 'stopped crying myself to sleep every night', motivated to do one or two things a day - not skipping up the hillside. Baby steps innit.

a hoy hoy, Thursday, 9 September 2010 04:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

stay strong to all who are posting here with heavy hearts and tense minds!

Group hug! Group hug!

But seriously, I'm glad that we've established this nice little support group here on ILX. I know it's been helpful to me.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Thursday, 9 September 2010 04:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Lost another friend to this motherfucker last night.

Don't know how yet...grad school admins. only confirmed that she did it herself.

poof! and gone

fuck

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 04:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

damn, so sorry hadrian.

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Thursday, 9 September 2010 04:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

:( i'm sorry, man.

friends don't understand us, adults don't understand us (zorn_bond.mp3), Thursday, 9 September 2010 04:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh, shit. Keep in touch with us, OK?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Thank you guys

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

Is there a more simultaneously unbelievable and perfectly logical act than suicide?

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

rephrase: It just struck me again, immediately upon hearing of her death, that of course she killed herself

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

"I can't believe it—"
"I saw it coming—"
"I can't believe it—"
"I saw it coming—"
"I can't believe it—"
"I saw it coming—"

&etc.

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

If it's not too painful for you right now, tell us a little more about her.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

She was quiet and small and reserved, until she punched you a new eye-hole. She wrote about piloting airplanes and was always spectacularly dressed. I got to know her best through her writing, which I guess is a specific and maybe narrow way point of entry. But deep. She had been hospitalized for a month earlier this year.

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hospitalized for depression?

I'm really sorry that you and her loved ones have to go through this.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah.

I can't even begin to imagine what parents go through with this shit. I'm a dad myself and just...it's gotta be bottomless.

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hey way to depress the depression thread!

You guys were just group hugging too.

Sorry all.

Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 9 September 2010 05:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

So now we group hug you.

friends don't understand us, adults don't understand us (zorn_bond.mp3), Thursday, 9 September 2010 06:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Had finished a bottle. Was reading some girl's poems. Heard my ex's voice in my head say "she's better than you." Stalked to the kiitchecn to finish the vodka left tin the freezer.

friends don't understand us, adults don't understand us (zorn_bond.mp3), Saturday, 11 September 2010 07:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

is a lowdown shakin chill

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Saturday, 11 September 2010 09:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

is an achin old heart disease

having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Saturday, 11 September 2010 09:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

manic depression is a frustrating mess.

Paul McCartney to be Fetid at White House (Pillbox), Saturday, 11 September 2010 09:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

hate this shit

hk phooey (crüt), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 14:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

feel like the bottom has been falling out of my brain bit by bit since I started college

hk phooey (crüt), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 14:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh man hadrian, hugz.

by the end of today i am determined to tidy up. considering my room has become a festering mess of non living for about a month and a half, this will be quite an achievement. must shower, get dressed and open the curtains first. this is terrible form for nearly 4pm, i know, but i am determined(ish)!

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 14:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe a nap first.

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 14:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

thoughts to all itt

k¸ (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 14:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hadrian, how are you holding up?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

A Hoy Hoy: Don't try to do everything at once or you'll get discouraged. Clean yourself first, then take care of anything unsanitary or dangerous, then anything that's just messy. I was deep into Level III clutter most of the time I was lived in Fort Myers, and I'm emerging from Level I now.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok. 2 points down on my 15 pt list (shower, dress), now on 3rd - collect and throw away rubbish. might as well ask now for the time i get to it, any good tips on hoovering behind objects you aren't going to be moving any time soon? p certain the huge collection of dust under my bed is having an adverse reaction to my health

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

well i'm not going to be around tomorrow or thursday as i'm going to house/babysit for my sis, so i'd like to come back to organisation and cleanliness - think it'll be helpful in sorting shit out and easier to keep that way. already past my first cup of tea into it tho.

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

If you can't get the vacuum to reach behind something large and immobile, get a dirty Tshirt or towel out of the laundry, wrap it around the brushy part of a broom, and use it to dust/sweep behind the thing.

Q: What's small, clumsy, and slow? A: A toddler. (Laurel), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

ty ty :)

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

np! gl!

Q: What's small, clumsy, and slow? A: A toddler. (Laurel), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok taking a break for a walk for some chinese food and some headache tablets. but ticked off 'throw out rubbish' and 'sort clothes' although that last one is a cheat as it was really just 'fold clothes and throw them in the bottom of the wardrobe'.

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

whatever works!

peacocks, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

dunno why i am liveblogging this.

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Whatever helps.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ugh, I'm in the same place with organization- I've had an ankle-deep layer of styrofoam peanuts around my TV/computer desk for months now because they're too big for the vacuum cleaner, too small and numerous to be worth the effort picking up one at a time, and nobody but me (and once, a couple of maintenance guys to fix the washing machine- the highlight of my social calendar) has ever been inside my apartment since I moved in over a year ago so who gives a shit? Not to mention the unassembled bookshelf still in its box, teetering piles of books and CDs, unread email, etc. Things reached a head this weekend when I realized I'd been stepping around a huge cardboard box full of recyclable paper for almost 6 months because I hadn't been able to work up the enthusiasm to leave my apartment and haul it to the dumpster.

a black white asian pine ghost who is fake (Telephone thing), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 18:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've got an unassembled bookcase still in its box that was delivered in early January, whilst we still had snow and ice in the UK. And I've been stepping round a bag of laundry from last November - the last batch I did at the laundrette whilst my washing machine was broken.

Haven't vacuumed for a couple of months - though that's more because vacuuming brings on my asthma really badly.

Bob Six, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 18:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

I know it probably wasn't the intention, but a hoy hoy and telephone thing, you've brightened up my evening, thanks

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 18:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

there's research on the subject of how one's environment affects one's mood - but someone else has posted about this in other threads

sarahel, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 19:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm feeling pretty good now after doing it. Ok so i only did about 4 parts of my 15 pt list and the stuff 'organised' has meant that i now have just some towers of mess in designated areas, like my desk but at least i am focussed on the football and not 'omg this is a hell hole' for now :)

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh man, that is an awesome list. I should start doing that shit.

Mormons come out of the sky and they stand there (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

Inspired by this thread, I washed the dishes at half time rather than just sitting on my arse and waiting on my other half to do it. This is Progress.

ailsa, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

I now want to eat grapes and learn to play the ukelule (loads of my friends seem to be doing the latter, perhaps it is a sign).

ailsa, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

really should water plant looking back. also wth at not being able to spell loaf.

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

my dad randomly decided to buy me one off of ebay and i'm all like uuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmm ok, i'll guess i'll eventually learn it? cheers?

a hoy hoy, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

loath = hi dere dr freud

xpost

ailsa, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

There should be a What Does Your To Do List Look Like in September? thread

Bob Six, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

What's stopping you? Go ahead and start one, I promise to post (but not first - no way to take pic right now and it is bedtime).

I find that when I'm borderline, lists can be the only way to get anything done (if I'm sunk deep they don't help). Like a hoy hoy, mine often include "shower" and "get bread". I can manage w/o list items for those things atm but still need items for more obscure things like "put out rubbish". It is ridic how much the brain appreciates these little task/reward cycles (even if the reward is just a tick*).

*In fact, I can't think of a reward better than a tick. It takes no time and doesn't require a shopping trip. Any suggestions?

Also unknown as Zora (Surfing At Work), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 22:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've never been able to stick to a list. Anyway, I've suddenly (within the last few hours) plunged into a deep, guilt-ridden depression, and I don't know what's causing it. I can't stop myself from posting to ILX--I hope I don't end up hogging threads and/or posting anything I'll regret. My husband's been acting a bit strange these last few days--I'm hoping that it's his flu and the pain medication he's taking for his back, and not oncoming depression.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 03:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

get grady to give you both an idea for a cheap date to knock you both out of it :)

a hoy hoy, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 05:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

keeping a relatively clean & organized room is really one of the keys to my own mental sanity

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 15 September 2010 06:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Do we have a thread somewhere on keys to mental sanity?

Also unknown as Zora (Surfing At Work), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 09:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

having a creative project -- one that i'm not too invested in emotionally or financially -- really helps for me. lately it's been cooking. i know i'm good at it, it has a time limit (it's done when it's done, not when my ego decides it's done), and the payoff is very quick.

corn smut (get bent), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 09:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

another thing is keeping up with stuff outside my own head. it doesn't have to be the news; it can be rare mp3s from ubuweb or a movie from netflix. sometimes people who think i'm "smart" ask me how i know so much, and the real answer is that a lot of what i know i learned during periods of escapism. cuz face it, depression is boring.

corn smut (get bent), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 09:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

Both of these are impossible for me when I'm depressed. The one thing that seems to work for me, other than waiting for it to go away, is going somewhere new and/or working for a new or infrequent patient. I'm bothered by the fact that I seem to need constant changes in scenery (or constant interaction with lots of people, which is impossible with my job) to stay sane.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 12:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think the drugs are working. As a result I also have a clearer image of the bad period. the whole summer I didn't do much in the shop. Nor in the house. Now that I am feeling better, I am sorting stuff out like mad. I had five bags of garbage on monday. Woha. I hate cleaning - thank god we have a cleaner or my depression would consist of layers of dust - but I do love sorting things out. So I have been doing that. Even cleaning a little. lol. I also seem to do more in the shop as well. That said, my sinus has been acting up really badly, so I spend some days being miserable in bed. lol. Also been cooking al little more. When I was in my dark period, I didn't do much at all in the kitchen. :-(

I still need to set a date for therapy though. I think I'll go in October. My GP's daughter is a psychologist. Why not do it that way? They can check how I am doing.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 13:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

keeping a relatively clean & organized room is really one of the keys to my own mental sanity

― J0rdan S., Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:17 AM

^^^^

markers, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 14:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

^ cosign

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 14:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think the drugs are working.

*Hugs Nathalie* I knew this would happen eventually.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 14:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm better than I was last night, thank goodness. My husband and mother-in-law have colds, and I think I might be catching it too--I've mistaken coming down with something with being depressed before.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 15:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost thanks. <3

Nathalie (stevienixed), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 15:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Does this burst of energy dwindle? I have been quite energitic. Really been working a lot (certainly compared to the previous months).

Also called a psychologist (daughter of my GP). I am happy. But that's the thing: I feel as though I don't need therapy cause I have the pills. Then again I do feel the anxiety under the surface somehow.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 15:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

it does, but in my experience it just kinda evens out. The next step is developing healthy ways of dealing with the anxiety and other problems when they inevitably get triggered. Good luck! :)

sarahel, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 16:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^^cosign. And therapy can help sort out and dissipate the anxiety. I had a few sessions before the meds and I found it quite useful. Going to my first session since being on meds and am looking forward to it. I'd suggest aligning your needs with a psych's specialties. Each is more attuned to specific causes and effects of depression.

shaane, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 22:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

http://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/

mookieproof, Thursday, 21 October 2010 21:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

OK, was going to post a link to my doc throughout high school (lots and lots and lots of drugs) and "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-" or something else pithy and clever before realizing a) that's really kind of a bad idea and b) BBcode takes a shit and dies when it encounters urls that contain square brackets. Just suffice to say that the numbers were very high, and that's just for Q1 2010 (Eli Lilly), Q3-4 2009 (Pfizer- oh man, Pfizer) and Q1-Q2 (AstraZeneca). Admittedly, AstraZeneca wasn't too bad- a $200 speaking fee- but this is just for three drug companies.

muus lääv? :D muus dut :( (Telephone thing), Thursday, 21 October 2010 21:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

4 weeks pass...

I decided today that this winter, as a therapeutic measure ("make a movie to solve a problem," my favorite college teacher used to say), I'm going to make a short documentary about the nature of depression and the differing models that exist. Any suggestions for books/movies/articles I should read? I've already got "Manufacturing Depression" on my list. Also if you happen to know of any particularly eloquent experts on the subject who live in Utah, plz to refer.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Thursday, 18 November 2010 00:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure you have "The Noonday Demon" on your list if you've not already read it? Andrew Solomon.

quincie, Thursday, 18 November 2010 02:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

I just started thinking about this 8 hours ago, so I've got no list yet. So thank you.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Thursday, 18 November 2010 03:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

'an unquiet mind' by kay redfield jamison, perhaps

she's bipolar, though, so just ignore the other half

mookieproof, Thursday, 18 November 2010 04:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

So I left work tonight, fully intending to meet my wife at home and go out somewhere for dinner. Instead, I got so agitated and upset and depressed on the drive home that, by the time she got home, I didn't want to go anywhere at all. I made myself a peanut butter sandwich and got a little dish of pineapple. I sat at the table, ate two bites of the sandwich, and stared at the pineapple for about 15 minutes. I ended up eating neither. I'm spending my Friday night folding laundry and trying to find reasons to stay awake. Maybe I need to go back on SSRIs.

Tub Girl Time Machine (Phil D.), Saturday, 20 November 2010 01:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

what happened on the drive? or was it just random?

there's nothing wrong with going to bed early sometimes tbh

mookieproof, Saturday, 20 November 2010 04:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

En I See Kay - I know that this book talks about all kinds of mental illness, not just depression but it has a really good point about the changing view of mental illness as a psychological model to a chemical model and how treatment has changed (not always for the better) - I am starting to feel like a bit of a shill for it, but Robert Whitaker - Anatomy of an Epidemic.

Phil D - I know you don't like me, and generally think of me as a lunatic, so take this advice with whatever tons of salt you feel necessary - BUT - the thing to remember is that all human beings, regardless of whether they are depressed or "normal" or on medication or not, have bad days and better days. It takes a certain kind of mind to take a bad day and ruminate on it and turn it into conclusive proof that life isn't worth living and one is just a bad/unlucky/terrible person. (i.e. the kind of mind that depressed people often have.) One thing I find helpful is to remember that being on SSRIs was no insurance against having bad moods or bad days. It's very easy for me, with hindsight, to look at certain periods of my life and say "but I was so much happier then!" but I can go back in my diary and look - especially at periods when I was on SSRIs, and it wasn't a total rosegarden.

I think it's really important to learn how to accept that you are human, and give yourself permission to have all kinds of moods, including bad ones. Sometimes it's something that happened (a bad commute home) sometimes it's nothing but the pressure to *have* to be happy that can send you over the edge. That you can get into one of those terrible moods where you don't want to do anything, and it's important to be able to say "you know what? I'm in a bad mood. I give myself permission to spend tonight wallowing over peanut butter and folding laundry. Tomorrow is another day." And start again.

I've had pretty much the worst few days in a long time, mentally. At least I've recently discovered there's a genuine medical reason I'm in pretty much constant pain for two weeks out of every month. But that doesn't stop the short temperedness and the just plain bad moods. I made the mistake of trying to go to the pub with people from work last night, and that was just an exercise in alienation and social anxiety so I thought "I don't have to do this" and came home and thought I'd watch a film to cheer me up. So I watched Pi, which is a great film but fuck, it is not something you should be watching in that kind of state. I cried myself to sleep, had nightmares and woke up feeling borderline suicidal and wondering if I should try self trepanation. It took a huge wrench to not fall into that abyss. Got up, exercised, took a walk around my neighbourhood and my favourite cafes and shops, planned my next creative project. Remembering the lifestyle things that keep depression at bay. I hope it's passing; I go on.

Anyway, that's besides the point. Give yourself permission to fail; pick yourself up afterwards, go on. Rinse, repeat.

Karen D. Tregaskin, Saturday, 20 November 2010 13:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

phil d., i hope you're feeling better. n/i/c/k, good luck with the film.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 20 November 2010 13:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

http://www.bristol.indymedia.org.uk/article/690010

Didn't know that movie existed before I was googling for a Hillman ref. Wd definitely be worth seeing if you cd, and definitely worth reading any of James Hillman's work on depression.

Raage Saga (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 November 2010 13:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Phil D - I know you don't like me, and generally think of me as a lunatic

Neither of these things is true btw, I only know you as a name on the intertubez! Not in a position to like, dislike or otherwise. We clearly disagree about many things, we may quite likely agree on any number of other things. And I do appreciate the advice. Last night was just . . . bad. Really bad. It felt like my brain had just entirely broken, like I could have sat and stared at that sandwich and that bowl of pineapple all night without moving, speaking or doing anything else. Had I not decided to fold laundry, I might very well still be sitting there.

Tub Girl Time Machine (Phil D.), Saturday, 20 November 2010 13:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah - what Kate says about giving yourself permission to have a bad day is really important. Last night I was gonna go to a monthly dance party that is usually fun and cheers me up, but I was just not feeling it. So I didn't go.

the business class edition of the ronaldinho bottle opener thread (sarahel), Saturday, 20 November 2010 19:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

i have a question about an apparent effect of depression a friend of mine has - she has v little in the way of what she called the self-reporting of her body, in both the expected way of getting no pleasure from things that it seems are in an objective way 'good' (cognitive understanding not passing on to experience), but also the less expected way of never feeling hungry or thirsty, little acknowledgement of temperature etc. so i guess the question is just, is this a 'thing'?

Antoine Bugleboy (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 20 November 2010 20:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

is she on medication? like, is this a potential side-effect of medication? I definitely have a minor version of this.

the business class edition of the ronaldinho bottle opener thread (sarahel), Saturday, 20 November 2010 20:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

Numbness to stuff both physical and emotional is a depression thing, yes!

quincie, Sunday, 21 November 2010 01:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

totally can be a side effect of medication. i had to make some dosage adjustments a while back cuz i felt emotionally/creatively flatlined on the high dose i was taking. i'm better now.

if you take Hinder and replace the ND with TL (get bent), Sunday, 21 November 2010 02:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

unrelated: one thing i'd like to learn to deal with better is disappointment toward other people and situations. i can't make anyone else not be a shit, but i wish i could change the way i react to someone i used to like turning out to be a shit. it depresses me that it occupies my thoughts at all.

if you take Hinder and replace the ND with TL (get bent), Sunday, 21 November 2010 02:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

^^ this!

sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 02:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think cognitive behavior therapy has been shown effective for that, but I don't have any first hand experience. Seems like the kind of thing medication in and of itself will not fix.

quincie, Sunday, 21 November 2010 02:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

"behavioral", not "behavior", maybe? Goes by CBT for sure.

quincie, Sunday, 21 November 2010 02:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

cbt comes up short when addressing a lot of the real life external-to-self things. it teaches you to turn negative thoughts into positive ones but it doesn't show you what to do when those positives may not exist.

(xp i've taken a cbt course.)

if you take Hinder and replace the ND with TL (get bent), Sunday, 21 November 2010 02:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

xposts yeah, she's on medication (venalfaxine), although the bad part there is that it's the third thing she's been tried on without much success. it's a pretty tough balance because before medication she felt terrible both emotionally and physically virtually all of the time, and now she feels pretty neutral all of the time, although in the former state she still managed to get things done and in the present state she's now working on a six month dissertation extension because she just hasn't been able to get anything out. hm. well she can at least be satisfied that it is indeed a 'thing', and hopefully bring up more medication modifications in her next doctor's visit.

Antoine Bugleboy (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 21 November 2010 04:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

It's not just a "thing" it's got a name, anhedonia. It is one of the principle symptoms of depression.

It being also one of the common side effects of anti-depressants, is something I find completely weird. It seems to me a poor medication that duplicates symptoms of exactly the same illness it purports to treat.

As I was looking for information on anhedonia as a symptom of depression (doctors sometimes use other related terms such as "flat affect": not displaying any emotions) I found some really useful factsheets from MIND. This is about the symptoms of depression:

http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/depression#symptoms

And this one is about the synergetic effects of food and mood, something I always, *always* forget, when I get those terrible, out of nowhere "headache depression" type moods. For me, they're sometimes caused by blood sugar spike and troughs - I was at a birthday party on Friday afternoon and stuck a whole bunch of highly processed highly sugared birthday cake down my gob. Combine that with physical pain and a trigger and bang - filthy headache depression seemingly coming out of nowhere.

http://www.mind.org.uk/foodandmood/food_and_mood-the_mind_guide

(Phil, I just thought there might be something in there you'd find helpful, since environmental things can cause those out-of-nowhere depressions.)

Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, 21 November 2010 10:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

And having read that second link a little closer, yeah, yeah, I know the idea of food-based treatment type stuff has got a lot of bad press on account of irresponsible quacks like Gillian McKeith but that doesn't mean that there aren't necessarily some genuine effects you can have from certain foods or the lack of them.

Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, 21 November 2010 10:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

thanks k. i knew about anhedonia but not that it was associated with the kind of strictly physical things i was talking about (she actually gets headaches a lot too, ranging from the tolerable to the crippling 24-hour migraine), although it does make intuitive sense.

Antoine Bugleboy (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 21 November 2010 14:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

Antidepressants cured my anhedonia.

On another note, anyone here tend to mistake the symptoms of coming down with something with a bout of depression? It happens to me all the time, and it just happened to me a few days ago (I'm recovering from the cold or whatever it was now).

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 21 November 2010 20:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

just sort of feel like if all i have to look foward to is working my shitty job or being on the dole, being lonely, gormless, boring and unattractive, getting drunk and consuming garbage media... then i'm already dead right? what's the fucking point? when do i actually get to feel like a fucking human being in my pathetic life?

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

Have you talked to a therapist yet?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

lol i just spent ten weeks in therapy and it felt good at the time but any benefit seems to have just evaporated.

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's not like i'm nihilistic or i think life per se is shit... i just wish i was somebody else. somebody who had something to contribute, somebody other people actually liked, somebody with a future.

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think life can be beautiful and amazing, there are times in my past when i was so happy and optimistic. but i can't even think how i would ever feel like that again.

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

It's a vicious cycle--you feel like shit because of depression, so your life rots away, which makes you feel even more like shit. Are you still following your therapist's suggestions for improving your life?

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

This will help maybe not at all, but: IT WILL PASS. Everything passes, included the horrible bleak times. Just hang in there as best you can. Be gentle with yourself. You've already contributed and continue too contribute. You are liked, you have a future, a meaningful one. Hang in.

quincie, Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

there are various ways of thinking more rationally about things, not being too worked up. but this doesn't really help when my depression is very stoic and british. "oh well. i'm shit, my life's shit... may as well just get on with things." i dunno if it's depression or just realism. i DON'T have anything to look forward to, and i'm a bit of a joke, end of.

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

this is ok as some sort of mantra, but it doesn't ring true or add up in a society where most people are taking more than they contribute and there really isn't any future for most people.

x-post

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think life can be beautiful and amazing, there are times in my past when i was so happy and optimistic. but i can't even think how i would ever feel like that again.

This is a pretty good alternate way to say the thread title, actually. The thing is, when you feel this fucked up and lousy, it's hard to remember how feeling good works. It's like if you had the flu for three weeks – you just kind of lose touch of a direct connection to how feeling hungry and energetic feels. That doesn't mean you are no longer capable of experiencing it, it's just too far away from your current experience to feel like a real possibility. But it is a real possibility. Someday you will feel less unhappy. I know it's hard to keep track of that or believe in it sometimes. This is the reason why I like when Charles Schulz said he takes his despair one day at a time.

xp

Stop Non-Erotic Cabaret (Abbbottt), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

Maybe for most people life is more shitty overall than it is good overall. I believe that. I also think it is the best idea to stick around anyway. How I got there, I don't know. I think the other option (death) leads to more net shittiness, basically.

Stop Non-Erotic Cabaret (Abbbottt), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah... i dunno. just feeling low this weekend, thanks for the responses.

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

you need to come up with more invented demographic groups for ilx to analyse

calpolaris (nakhchivan), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

hahaha ^^^ actually cheered me up

ed chilliband (max arrrrrgh), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

srsly tho

i've been on the look out for SSB signifiers but inner london is thin on the ground with SSBs (the city excepted, maybe)

calpolaris (nakhchivan), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

i've missed this, can i get a pointer?

ps max, i don't want to ignore thread premise etc, but don't know what to say that wouldn't sound trite. all the best.

Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

"Hipster" as pejorative.

and the next few pages of that

calpolaris (nakhchivan), Sunday, 28 November 2010 00:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

max u gotta disparage yrself less

especially if you do it irl as a defensive strategy to pre-empt the expected criticisms of others

but in general you probably do yourself a disservice

calpolaris (nakhchivan), Sunday, 28 November 2010 01:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

hahaha ^^^ actually cheered me up

Right. Distracting yourself with something can really do wonders for a mild case of depression.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 28 November 2010 01:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't know exactly how or when things snapped back into place, but I've been living without depression for over a year now. I've described what it was like to a friend, with the assurance that it isn't like that right now, but it seems so minor of an occurrence.

I used to expect to kill myself and/or others and spent my days waiting until I didn't have to do any of it any longer. Now I move through days interacting and accomplishing. All bare minimum, but real.

Hospitalizations, over-medications, therapy, employment, stopping treatment, making decisions on violence. Some combinations of success and failure leaving me ready to go, on the verge of getting it on as soon as I'm ready.

Ominous specters always over the horizon. Maybe something comes along and I go dark. I can't dwell on the possibility.

fa fa fa fa fa (Zachary Taylor), Sunday, 28 November 2010 10:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

It's like a rain cloud that comes around every once in a while and envelopes you totally within it, you can't see out beyond it, you can't remember what it was like before it came. You have a really distorted perception of yourself too.

jeevves, Sunday, 28 November 2010 10:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yesterday I started full on crying like a big girl for no reason at work. Luckily no-one was around and I just let it out but damn, I thought I'd got past this (says the guy who has already told ilb that he cried on the train this week).

wheezy f baby (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 28 November 2010 13:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

The random crying is just the worst. It feels like some sort of sadness seizure.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Sunday, 28 November 2010 19:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

It's like a rain cloud that comes around every once in a while and envelopes you totally within it, you can't see out beyond it, you can't remember what it was like before it came. You have a really distorted perception of yourself too.

^^^

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 28 November 2010 23:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

Acknowledging your depression can, in and of it self, be very depressing. For instance, when I'm dating, how long can I wait before disclosing that I have this often debilitating mental illness? Should I really even be dating when I'm perfectly aware of what I'll be putting someone through if things get serious?

I mean, I know that admitting and dealing with it head on is an important step, but I can't help but think that I'd be much less depressed if I didn't have depression to think about all the fucking time.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Monday, 29 November 2010 03:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well the one girl I am madly in love with will never get with me because she also knows that I'm mr. crazy baggage. Also that she's on another continent.

wheezy f baby (a hoy hoy), Monday, 29 November 2010 10:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

think you meant to post that under the acoleuthic login

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Monday, 29 November 2010 10:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

there is a picture that proves im not an lj sockpuppet and yet people still dont believe!

wheezy f baby (a hoy hoy), Monday, 29 November 2010 10:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

Oh man, it's clear you're not LJ because you are posting in this thread, not starting some new thread with a little line break novella about how broke your heart is, and also a cricket loss doesn't factor into your depression.

Stop Non-Erotic Cabaret (Abbbottt), Monday, 29 November 2010 12:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

Stay away from the Wengerball thread then :)

wheezy f baby (a hoy hoy), Monday, 29 November 2010 12:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

(tbf i've not gone as crazy on that thread as i could, waiting for the annual shawcrossing to explode.)

wheezy f baby (a hoy hoy), Monday, 29 November 2010 12:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

I am several years off medication. Wow, do I feel great. Licking depression can be done!!! Take matters into your own hands and GOOD LUCK!

university of, drunk off your butt, etc. (u s steel), Wednesday, 26 January 2011 15:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

is there sarcasm in that? i have lost my prescription again and working the whole week my doctors is open in a totally different fucking place means i've gone 2 weeks without any meds. and its things like just being text that my place to stay for the night has to bail on me but won't tell me why that is easing me back into stable mental health.

supply 'n d-man (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 26 January 2011 15:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

Could you maybe go to the emergency room and explain your situation? You may be able to get a few days worth of meds there. (I was once told that that was a last resort option.)

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Thursday, 27 January 2011 02:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

xp - that sounds very not-ok, like i think you can go a few days and still be fine, because they stay in your system for a while, but two weeks sounds risky. Like you're dealing with depression + withdrawal

sarahel, Thursday, 27 January 2011 02:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

sorry to hear that a hoy hoy? what is it that you're taking? like sarahel, I'm concerned about withdrawal, which I know can put you in places that feel unfamiliar, mentally :(.

hoping for the best for you, let us know if we can help, even if just by giving moral support.

teen laqueefah (San Te), Thursday, 27 January 2011 02:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

tbf this happens to me with like every other prescription so i'm used to it now. I'm doing surprisingly well compared to when I went without it in the summer, when I had a full on mental breakdown. Now it has just been downgraded to the usual occasional panic attack. helps that my life is in a totally better place in almost every respect. if everything goes to plan, my doctor (or before she went on meternaty (sp?) leave, was thinking of lowering my dosage by about April with a look at withdrawal over the summer. But as she's not around and I'm hopefully moving soon, I'll guess i'll have to discuss it with another doctor. i'm taking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sertraline and as thats the first time i've read its wiki, it explains a lot.

also you guys are awesome, fyi.

supply 'n d-man (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 27 January 2011 09:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

If you live in the US (I realize many of you don't) and go to the emergency room, you will not see a doctor or even get emergency meds, you'll probably end up staying the night in the emergency room with the bright lights and nurses and then they will commit you, you have no say in that.

university of, drunk off your butt, etc. (u s steel), Thursday, 27 January 2011 12:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't but yeah, I've seen One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest enough times to be freaked out by the possibilities of opening up to the wrong people.

sammy bagels (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 27 January 2011 12:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

after years of being all wtf, it's strange to realize that i now really do have good reasons to be depressed

mookieproof, Thursday, 27 January 2011 15:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

"brain not wired quite right" is all the reason one needs imo

quincie, Thursday, 27 January 2011 22:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

If you live in the US (I realize many of you don't) and go to the emergency room, you will not see a doctor or even get emergency meds, you'll probably end up staying the night in the emergency room with the bright lights and nurses and then they will commit you, you have no say in that.

― university of, drunk off your butt, etc. (u s steel), Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:38 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark

truth bomb. I have really good insurance but the one time I had my major panic attack that I thought was a heart attack at the time, the hospital shrink started asking me questions that made me realize they were considering whether to rule out that option, so at that moment I answered very carefully.

gave me a xanax and sent me on my way tho luckily

eep opp ork ah ah...and that means suck my dick (San Te), Thursday, 27 January 2011 23:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Pretty depressed these days, pretty lonely and bitter. The best times of my life are behind me, and while I've been good at forgetting the past, cos it doesnt exists, it still upsets me somehow. Now there's like a big hole of pointless years. I suppose that shouldnt matter either tho.

The idea of even getting together w friends in a room and drinking and having fun makes me nervous. Mostly really nervous and manic around female friends, i think my sex drive is out of whack. Kinda think it always has been. Just dont have the social tools to hook up with any ladies. Feel pretty defeated, i mean whats the use anyways. Probably be good if i didnt pass on these dumb moody genes. Maybe its natural selection or something, for the better of humanity that i just die off.

All that said, there is very little of physical reality that genuinely pleases me anymore, which i kind of dont mind on some level because religiously ive come to accept alot of things about the universe and reality and i think there are many other realms, some of them eternal, that are completely unaffected by anything that happens through my lifetime. Realms that are fundamentally a part of me and are so glorious and graceful that they transcend whether i have a shitty day or a good one, or a thousand of either in a row.

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 January 2011 02:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Even in my darkest days, when i was like "Absolutely nothing about life matters", there was something (you might call it optimism, but i dont think thats the right word) that made me realize that that fact in itself didn't matter either. Instantly everything reveals itself to be in some harmonic flux and the idea that nothing matters is a key to a fundamental, unlimited potential in everything.

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 January 2011 02:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

"Just dont have the social tools to hook up with any ladies."

Talk to these female friends imo, me female friends love nothing more than hooking up their sensitive boy-friends and to try and make them happy.

sammy bagels (a hoy hoy), Friday, 28 January 2011 06:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

ime*

sammy bagels (a hoy hoy), Friday, 28 January 2011 06:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

The best times of my life are behind me

This is bullshit. My old self was an idiot and this is proof.

Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 January 2011 06:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

The old self of about...ten hours ago?

I'm glad you're feeling better.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Friday, 28 January 2011 19:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

mookieproof, Tuesday, 26 April 2011 06:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

i've come to the conclusion that numbness >>>>>> being overwhelmed by feelings. that place in the middle where you feel nothing but can actually get out of bed and DEAL -- underrated.

pan loco y salsa loca (get bent), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 08:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

i have friends with depression its not fun

brodie, Tuesday, 26 April 2011 08:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if it's wrong to expect depression or "blue" periods to return. Y'know, as some sort of defense mechanism.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 08:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

i've been a little depressed lately, but i think it's situational, tied to something fairly specific. it's been said before, but antidepressants don't "cure" depression.

pan loco y salsa loca (get bent), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 08:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

My anti-anxiety medication has *settled* somehow. Thankfully I don't have full blown anxiety anymore. I guess it's the same here with me. That said, I am not going to therapy anymore. It didn't help much.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 10:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

Nah they don't cure depression and any decent doctor will tell you so. In my case, my ADs just help me put depression on the back burner. So instead of spending my whole day going mental, which is not helping anything, I can spend most of my day trying to sort shit out like finding a better job, not having panic attacks at random (that said, i had a pretty fucking huge one last weekend, but that would have happened no matter what due to circumstances of :(.), not digging myself away in a hole when i could be out socialising and enjoying life which leads to less anxiety and loneliness etc.

popular gay automobile (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 11:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

^^^this. It's a slow climb. I think I've found a path out of the void (thanks to the meds) but I can see that it's going to take years of "doing the next right thing," failing, trying again, getting it right, ad nauseum.

shaane, Tuesday, 26 April 2011 14:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

I gave up after trying Lexapro and then Zoloft. "Not digging myself away in a hole when i could be out socialising and enjoying life which leads to less anxiety and loneliness" is pretty much the benefit I've been looking for. Heard to many bad things about Paxil and Prozac. Haven't kept up with the latest and greatest meds.

wewetyourpants.com (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 15:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

I take sertraline, which I think I've discussed on this thread before - I believe its just like an updated version of Zoloft?

popular gay automobile (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 15:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

Sertraline is the active ingredient of Zoloft and so that's its generic name. UK prescriptions specify the generic name, not the brand name, so that pharmacies can substitute cheaper generic versions rather than buy the Pfizer version - though Pfizer calls it Lustral rather than Zoloft in Europe anyway, but I believe they're effectively the same.

...I think. (They use the generic active ingredient name even when there is only one brand on the market, e.g. for new drugs which are still under patent to the original pharmaceutical company.)

dimension hatris (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 15:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

Oh, well then don't listen to me.

popular gay automobile (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 15:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Did you say something?

;)

Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 15:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Sorry. Didn't mean to be schoolma'amish. Maybe Lustral is an update from Zoloft - the active ingredient is the same but there may be a different release mechanism.

dimension hatris (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 18:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

The generic name (e.g. sertraline) is the drug, and is 100% bioequivalent to the brand name (e.g. Zoloft/Lustral). It has to be in order to be approved for sale.

The way generic/brand name stuff works is this: When a drug is first developed by a drug company, that company has an exclusive patent on that drug for a number of years (which can vary). After that patent expires, any company can make that same drug, but cannot use that brand name.

Drug companies have (in their tricksy, techinically legal way) spread a lot of disinformation about generics. The truth is that generics are EXACTLY the same in every way as the brand name.

/pissypharmacytechnician

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Tuesday, 26 April 2011 21:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

So I'm really looking forward to two things: This weekend I'm putting on a new DJ night with my friends playing and on Tuesday I'm off to Barcelona for Primavera Festival. But there's something obscuring my anticipation, and that's my best friend's depression.

These last few months he's become very unstable. I'm never sure when is a good time to talk to him as he can often be very aggressive. Today I texted him to ask if he was still ready and willing to play a set at the club on Friday. He replied in a very rude and confusing way. When I asked him to reiterate he was again very sarcastic and passively aggressive, making it out as if I'd insulted him for some reason.

The thing is, we're all going on holiday together - him, me our better halves and a couple more friends. Whenever they drink, which is inevitable on a holiday like this, he and his gf are likely to argue.

I'm almost certain it's depression, and he's recently started seeking professional help for it. His attitude in the meantime can be very upsetting. Just receiving a few texts has had the power to bum me out, so no wonder his (otherwise very supportive) gf finds it hard going at the best of times.

For the record, he's never violent, but he has a way of turning his perceived problems on other people - believing there's an agenda that doesn't exist and acting on it.

Needless to say I'm anticipating problems on this trip, and I don't know how my friends and I should act if things go awry. We've all been anticipating this trip as it's been years since we all went on holiday as friends - last time was 2008, and back then there were (completely separate) social issues going on, so it would be nice to have a bicker-free holiday for once.

How should I treat it if he gets like this? It always makes me quite upset being accused in this passive aggressive way, but I know I shouldn't argue back. Part of me just wants to shake my friend and say "look buddy, just because you've got problems doesn't mean you can take them out on your mates", but this would be insensitive and probably wouldn't help things. Or what? Do you ignore it and walk away? Leave things to his girlfriend (doesn't seem fair) to sort out? Try and reason with him? Somehow this never seems to work if someone is determined to be unreasonable.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 09:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

ignore it and walk away.

taking ilxers out with a flurry of butthurt (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 19 May 2011 10:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i guess so. although it's not always possible.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 10:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

Offer as much support as you can to the gf, but viz. dealing directly w/ your friend, I doubt there's much you can do. I used to have a close friend who was bipolar, and she had some of the same behaviours you mention. She would get the wrong end of hte stick about things, overreact all the time, would accuse me of being a bad friend based on stories she'd cooked up about me. I bent over backwards to prove her wrong, to reassure her, but it only got worse. In the end I *became* a bad friend, because I couldn't handle the provocation (I had some pretty big problems of my own at the time), and we no longer speak.

I regret this.

If you can zen the whole thing maybe you'll handle it better than I could, but arguing / reasoning definitely don't work, IME.

Also unknown as Zora (Surfing At Work), Thursday, 19 May 2011 10:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

I cannot think of the last time I've woken up this depressed. It was next to impossible to drag myself out of bed and I find myself glaring at anyone actually daring to smile in public, picturing very horrible things happening to them to remind them that life is nothing but a horrifying string of cruching defeats and misery.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

Also crushing defeats.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

i've felt much the same way over the past week. I suffered from a major depressive episode from about 1989 to 1994 (yes that is a long time) which was seriously compounded by horrible alcohol abuse on top of all kinds of meds I was prescribed...nightmare. Finally pulled myself out of all of that and, despite having increasing anxiety over the past several years, I hadn't had this kind of depression in years. But last week it came out of nowhere: unable to concentrate, things seeming pointless, an almost overwhelming urge to weep? WTF. lasted four days then left....then came back. seems to be nipping around everywhere the second I don't keep myself occupied.

it was suggested I might look into amino acid supplements to control this since it seemed so chemical; there is no logical reason for me to be depressed like this. has anyone tried this? I don't even know where to get or who to talk to about them. not interested in doing meds again since my experience with them was horrifying (probably because I was drinking on top of them but still).

akm, Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

has anyone ever tried 5HTP for depression?

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

completely fucking useless ime

taking ilxers out with a flurry of butthurt (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

mate texted and apologised BTW. He tends to realise he's being a jerk, but often all too late.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

jon: it's this fucking rain, maybe? I honestly can't take it anymore. everyone I know is so dejected and morose. last night I got home and cried for no particular reason :(

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well the rain certainly isn't helping, but the bigger issue was being told by our real estate agent last night that its pretty much hopeless for us to sell our house right now. Which, fine, market sucks blah blah, but the reason I'm depressed is because we now have to face up to the very real fact that we will be bringing our baby home to a house right next door to literal drug-dealing murdered. And the fact that I am powerless to change things is crushing me right now. I feel like an utter failure.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

DL, I would probably be a little confrontational with the friend. "I know you're dealing with emotional issues, but I have yes/no questions and I just want to get some yes/no answers. I'm not a mind-reader -- if there's something you're mad at me about, I haven't figured out what it is yet, let's deal with it separately. In the meantime, are you doing a set Friday?" It doesn't diminish their real unhappiness and/or perceived grievances, but it also says "the world needs you to deal with it on somebody else's terms for a few minutes, just for a few minutes."

xp aha

WmC, Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

xp But that's not your fault at all - that's the wider world at work. But I can understand what a drag it must be.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I think that might be along the right lines WmC.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

Oh jon. :( People have brought their babies home to much, MUCH worse places. At least you own this one, fwiw, and it's private and only your little family will live there. Anyway, the kid won't remember anything until they're at least two, so you've still got a couple of years to figure this out.

Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

I mean, who does this situation affect? Your baby, who won't remember. Your wife...how does she feel? And you, who are beating yourself up for some kind of social expectation that's built on a whole other kind of economy/world than we life in.

Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

Laurel is OTM here. This is not a reflection on you Jon.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

^^^

WmC, Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

I understand that on a rational, logical level, but I'm having hard time not seeing it as some sort of failure on my part on a more emotional level. Its not really the memories that concern me, its that we've had to call the cops on them for violent fistfights in our front yard, gunshots, and we still have a bullet hole in the brick on the side of our house from several years ago. Its really scary to think that, no matter how nurturing of an immediate environment we provide, that there is this wild card out there completely out of our control.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 13:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

Also, if you spend this time feeling sorry for yourself and ruminating on your failures, you are going to be feeling horrible and lose out on the lead-up to the birth of your and your wife's first child. That would really be a shame. ;_;

In the nicest way, because I need to have my head jogged like this ALL THE TIME, I'm trying to say that this time in your life is not about you and your success or failure. I believe that you mean only the best, but the thing to do is to be emotionally present right now, and appreciative of the wealth of things you DO have, and fix this spring and these days and this excitement into your memory so you can have beautiful stories for your child of the days when you longed for her to be born so you could meet her.

Your child won't be going outside or playing in the yard or walking to school for a while yet. You have time. Slow down and be, maaaan.

Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

want to say something encouraging, but laurel's handling that better than i ever could, so yeah, what she said

contenderizer, Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

Living in circumstances that concern you can be deeply troubling. Never lived next door to full-on gangsters, but I have rented next to some pretty scary/threatening people and I know it's tough because even in your own home it's hard to feel at ease. I think a lot of depression comes from a sort of a state of - perhaps quite rational - "constant worry". Rather than coming home and relaxing, you're on edge because you're subconsciously wondering what next door will get up to next.

Stuff like this has left me quite low and irritable in my own life. I start worrying that my "future self" won't be able to handle the situation if and when it happens, whatever that situation may be. And that theoretical situation starts snowballing in my mind - I start thinking about the worst case scenario and almost convincing myself it will happen at some point in time. So I go round worrying about not if but when it'll happen - not a good state of mind. This is amplified by a frustration at not being able to affect the situation in a positive way, giving way to irrational feelings of uselessness.

The thing is, in my experience the worst case scenario never takes place at all, and all the pain and worry turns out to be for nought. Any issues sort themselves out, for better or worse. You have to remind yourself that you have all the time in the world to sort your existence out and that you can't do this all in one day.

Meh, don't know if that's anything like how you feel. I'm just chatting breeze now.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

No dog latin, you've pretty much nailed it on the head exactly. After some of the early issues we had with the neighbors, I relaxed a little thinking, well, we've dealt with the worst and moved on, so it can't be that bad. But when someone was murdered, well, I went back to that constant state of anxiety and its just increased lately. Which is why we were doing everything in our power to sell our house because, as you kind of hint at, even if nothing ever happens it is still no fun living in a constant state of worry and anxiety.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

the someone who was murdered was someone involved in the next door situation, no? these things rarely reach strangers. I'd rather live near drug dealers than junkies - do you know any details about them?

iatee, Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, it was a friend of one of the guys who lived there who was killed, so I realize its extremely unlikely that anything will directly be aimed at us. But, on the other hand, a larger concern is that they frequently have "visitors" really strung out on something or other screaming on their (and our) front yard, brandishing firearms, etc etc. I mean, I'm not afraid of being a direct victim, but what scares me more than anything is that it just takes one stray bullet...

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

Be grateful for everything.

more horses after the main event (Eazy), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

Its advice like "be grateful for everything" that makes me think I'm wired wrong or whatever, because, no, sorry, I just can't be "grateful" to be living next door to criminals.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

you have a house, a job and a family! many people your age do not.

iatee, Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

Jon, you'll sort this out eventually one way or another. It might take a wee while, but you're not stuck there forever. At the bleakest of times one tends to feel doomed, like "what if this is it? what if I have to spend my whole life in this situation?" Like the time I lost my job and a huge bill came through that I just couldn't pay. Suddenly I entered panic mode - visions of bailiffs kicking down my door and ejecting me from my house to die in the cold etc... This thought process took 5 minutes to work through my mind in its entirety - and it was incredibly distressing, I felt hopeless. But one way or another I found a way. It took three months to get a new job and a further year to recover financially from that time.
Point is, in retrospect that memory feels like a snapshot of my misery and worry - I feel detached from it now, because I know I took practical steps to resolve it. On that day, if someone had told me "oh you'll be fine in a year" I'd probably have freaked out, but now it feels like a blip in an otherwise regular state of normalcy.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

is it at all possible to rent your house and move into an apartment in a safer location

I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

DJP, I would assume there's a possibility but the fact there are (criminal/drug addicted) neighbours next door won't up the chances of renting it out.

you have a house, a job and a family! many people your age do not.

I am not singling you out, but this line doesn't really help people with depression.It actually worsens it. It makes them feel guilty.I can only say that, if depression inhibits your life/work/...; then you should address the problem with therapy and/or medication.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

DJP, we have seriously looked into that, but given the rental rates for houses in our area right now, we wouldn't make enough to cover the mortgage and the rent (well, perhaps, but we'd have to throw away our down payment savings to do so). So, at least at this point, we just have to wait it out.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

then you should address the problem with therapy and/or medication.

I'm doing this (first part anyway, at this point), but I'm shocked by how sudden and strong this feeling has hit me.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

jon, that sucks. I mean could you absorb a hit if you sold the house for less than market value, just to get the f out of there?

Crooked Lust (thebingo), Thursday, 19 May 2011 14:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well, we're already priced to take a sizable hit, but we really don't have a whole lot more room to give.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

and even at the lower price the realtor is convinced you cant sell? One thing, dont let him/her tell you what to do, you own the house...

Crooked Lust (thebingo), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

See, that kind of strikes to the point of the issue, our agent is really being pushy and (we think) dishonest about what we need to price at. We've had seven showings in the last three weeks (which, from what I hear is actually really good!), but she keeps sending us these really pessimistic, negative emails about the "continuin market downslide" and pressuring us to lower it to ridiculous levels. I mean, I appreciate she's an expert on these things and maybe the market really is that awful, but she keeps comparing us to properties that aren't even in the same ballpark. Thats part of my frustration, because I feel she is doing a horrible job of helping us out.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

so can her and get someone else...ever thought about trying to sell it on your own...save you a bunch in commissions and this douchebags attitude.

Crooked Lust (thebingo), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

We'd love to, but as per the agreement we signed, we'd have to pay her a not insignificant fee + marketing costs in order to get out of it right now. We're debating just how worth it that would be right now.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

stupid question: if you were to rent the place out and take a rental of your own, you wouldn't need the rental income to cover your new rent AND your mortgage payment, right? you're already paying the mortgage, so all you'd need is for rent in to cover rent out.

contenderizer, Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'm sure i've misunderstood your previous post on that question...

contenderizer, Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

previous post says that he can't rent for the current mortgage amount, so they'd likely be paying more when combining covering the mortgage and paying rent on a new place

I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

Jon, I am happy you are addressing it. Things will get better.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

your agent sounds like a snake. how did you find her?

akm, Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

it might be worth it for your sanity alone. yeah and what type of contract did you sign with her that you have to pay her for not selling your house? weird.

Crooked Lust (thebingo), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

Honestly, she's not so much a snake as someone who views us as a really insignificant player in her overall scheme. We're small fish and she doesn't see us as being worth her time, which is frustrating, to be treated like a business decision instead of people. My mother-in-law is a real estate agent in Michigan and one of her coworkers who used to live in our area recommended her.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

what type of contract did you sign with her that you have to pay her for not selling your house? weird.

From what I understand, its a fairly common agreement that if we (the sellers) cancel for whatever reason, we have to pay for the marketing costs. If it doesn't sell within a year, we are off the hook without any costs, just before it lapses that we have to pay.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

is that common in chi? we didn't do that out here when we sold our condo. of course that was 6 years ago, maybe things changed since the market went in the shitter. how much longer do you have for the year to be up?

Crooked Lust (thebingo), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

Seven and a half months, right now.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

wait, seven and a half left? ugh.

Crooked Lust (thebingo), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that's real-estate SOP. But I can imagine just about every agent out there in a Glengarry Glen Ross presure cooker now, willing to sacrifice a few hundred off their 3% to bump up the volume of properties they move, no matter that it sacrifices a few thousand out of their clients' pockets.

WmC, Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, this isn't the "real estate agents and what they're really like" thread, so I'm going to stop talking about that stuff itt. I appreciate those of you talking this through, I'm just wishing I was able to approach how I'm feeling in a more rational/sensible way, without feeling like I've failed my family.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

jon, you didn't fail your family at all. Dont look at it that way.

Crooked Lust (thebingo), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

^^^ really, you haven't. nor yourself.

broodje kroket (dog latin), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

I've had this book thrown at me recently (the depression has gotten really bad lately, and I'm existentially terrified of SSRIs and the like because I don't seem to create experiential memories when I'm on them) and it's really helpful for exactly the kind of thing you're talking about.

http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0671019112

It's a little bit self-helpy, little ew capitalism at one point, but the guy who wrote it is a former APA President and he goes out of his way to make sure that you know that everything he's talking about or telling you to do is based in good, peer-reviewed science.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

jon, you didn't fail your family at all. Dont look at it that way.

yeah, exactly. you're doing everything possible for your family, it's just that the world won't cooperate - at the moment.

contenderizer, Thursday, 19 May 2011 15:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah jon, I think your own expectations of yourself & what constitutes failure are a lot different and skewed more harshly than your own family...I know it doesnt help much, but it's far worse inside your own head right now, and taking baby steps back from the ledge by slowly knowing that you arent to blame, that you are loved, that there are things you can control
You, your baby, your family...you will be okay. will. be okay

Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 May 2011 18:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

WHoa I just checked the Seligman book out from the library a few days ago.

Col. Pinkney Lugenbeel (Abbbottt), Thursday, 19 May 2011 20:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

xpost Yes. Exactly. Also, Jon, would you expect the same of your wife of someone else? You are putting way too high expectations on yourself. You can't control this (completely).

Nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 19 May 2011 23:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

xp There's another Seligman book called 'Authentic Happiness' which is pretty good as well.

got a whole lotta gloves (snoball), Friday, 20 May 2011 07:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

I'm just wishing I was able to approach how I'm feeling in a more rational/sensible way

well, you might not be able to on your own right now, but a trained professional can teach you some strategies for approaching your feelings in a more ... systematic way? objective way? anyway, go see a therapist!

i wouldn't use words like rational / sensible. they are kind of judgmental-sounding? you don't sound irrational or insensible to me.

i think you sort of have to look at depression sort of like a learning disability. i say this as a teacher, and as some who has struggled to manage his own depression for 10+ years. you ought to be able to do something that other people see to do more easily, i.e. feel grateful for family / job / house, not fixate on what's going wrong in your life, not write off what is actually going well in your life. the explanations and rationalizations that work for other people don't seem to work for you.

i find that the only thing that really works for me is what i recommend for my students who struggle: get some coaching (that's what therapy really should be, emotional coaching), study your problems, and figure out some strategies that help you cope.

anyway, if you don't want to see a therapist you could try some sort of workbook. i recommend "the feeling good handbook" by dr david burns and "mind over mood" by dr dennis greenberger. both present a set of common depressive pitfalls that you should look out for, and present a set of "case studies" for you to read and analyze. it helps you reflect on your own thought processes - you might find it easier to think rationally about a hypothetical third person's experiences, reactions and moods, and that strengthens those thinking patterns in your mind, which you can apply to your life.

"mind over mood" also has a bunch of journaling exercises and graphic organizers that you can follow as a protocol to "tune up" your thinking, or to organize your thoughts more objectively. i don't have a whole lot of luck with formal note-taking strategies or to-do list strategies and whatnot but the few times i have actually followed the protocol they lay out i've found it really helpful.

anyway good luck jon

moonship journey to baja, Friday, 20 May 2011 08:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

here's links to those books

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-Therapy-Revised-Updated/dp/0380810336

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Over-Mood-Change-Changing/dp/0898621283

i just want to make it really clear, what you call the ability to approach how I'm feeling in a more rational/sensible way is not an inborn human characteristic. it's a learned skill, and it's something that some people seem to have a deficit in, either because of nature or nurture or some combination of the two, whatever, but it's a learned skill, and one that you can better at. the books i linked to are written by clinical experts and are used in many, many clinical settings to help people get better at what you're talking about.

moonship journey to baja, Friday, 20 May 2011 08:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

er, shit, i linked to the wrong edition of the burns book. i recommend this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-Handbook-David-Burns/dp/0452281326/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305879977&sr=1-1

moonship journey to baja, Friday, 20 May 2011 08:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Depression and what it's really like

To me, it's like you know all the answers/solutions but feelings of being trapped and hopelessness just envelop you. It's like sitting with all the bits of a flat pack wardrobe, instructions in hand, but just thinking "What's the point?". You just wonder where to start on putting things right, and end up just getting frustrated with yourself because you haven't looked for jobs, you haven't cleaned up, you haven't got in touch with people, you struggle to be open and tell people close to you what's really going on, because you don't want to burden them, and you want to be there for them. The subject of you bores you to tears, but you end up talking about yourself all the time (like this). I saw a counsellor, and he asked me what do I want to do, what do I want from life, and I really don't know.

I know I've always had an underlying feeling of being vaguely depressed, and I could cope with that, and I would love to go to back to that because it made me appreciate happy times and being alive more. I got prescribed Citalopram back in October, but I never took it. I remember posting about how I never cry on ILX a few times - I've cried so much in the last little while, even over things like the end of Return of the King and the episode of How I Met Your Mother that was Marshall's dads funeral.

Anyway, if you're depressed, or a bit down, then I hope you get through it.

I want to be embarrassed by this post a few months from now, or more to not recognise the person who posted it.

resonate with awesomeness (jel --), Wednesday, 15 June 2011 19:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

depression is caused by irrational thoughts if you follow the schoo l of cognitive psychology -
write down you r thoughts that are blue on paper and you will see that they are somewhat irrational
- in fact we should start just such a thread

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Wednesday, 15 June 2011 19:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

feel like i've been on this thread & others going "rah rah antidepressants," but i wanted to say again that i can totally understand the worldview yr putting out there jel -- at the worst low of my depression i came up with the maxim "life is something other people do" and thought i had summed up my whole miserable existence in the phrase. couldn't see the point in ANYTHING. like why would people take the time to hang posters or paint walls to make their living space look good? of what possible use was that? other people would go out and do things like hike or go kayaking and i was like, what in god's name is the point of that? why would you stir a muscle if you weren't compelled to by urgent necessity?

i've been a year on citalopram now, and there's a tremendous difference in my mindset, my energy level, and my ability to interact with people. meaning came creeping back until now it's like night and day. and i've had more success creatively since going on 'em than i did before (my fear was it would interfere with my ability to write; turns out i write the same AND i'm less afraid of failure/other people's opinions). so i really do encourage folx to give it a try at least.

can rapacious womankind get real here for a second (reddening), Wednesday, 15 June 2011 21:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

what do we think of this

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/

mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 June 2011 22:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

jel, your post right there...I would say I identify, except I don't know if that statement is adequate enough for my reaction to a direct transcription of my life.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 15 June 2011 22:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think the epidemic of mental illness can very broadly be chalked up to the fact that we perpetuate a society that is increasingly indifferent to the needs of the (non-wealthy) individual while simultaneously becoming less defined by any real sense of community. Which is, say, something that generations of people may have come to just accept during centuries of feudalism, but when you're aware of (or actively recall) a time in the not-so-distant past when there was less economic disparity, when the idea of owning a home wasn't a pipe dream for most, when technology wasn't actively eroding people's connection with and empathy towards others, etc., it's kind of difficult for a lot of people to adjust.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 15 June 2011 22:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

wow Jel really nailed it there - I'm relating to every word

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Thursday, 16 June 2011 07:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

what do we think of this

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why

We do not take it seriously because all three of the people mentioned in the article are against medication for mental illness.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Friday, 17 June 2011 04:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

i don't think it is that easily dismissed

mookieproof, Friday, 17 June 2011 04:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

I am waiting for part 2 – I thought it was interesting. I'd heard stats about SSRIs performing not that much better than placebos but I'd never seen it spelled out like that before.

This part hit really close to home for me because it's basically exactly what happened to me:

For example, the SSRIs may cause episodes of mania, because of the excess of serotonin. ...As side effects emerge, they are often treated by other drugs, and many patients end up on a cocktail of psychoactive drugs prescribed for a cocktail of diagnoses. The episodes of mania caused by antidepressants may lead to a new diagnosis of “bipolar disorder” and treatment with a “mood stabilizer,” such as Depokote (an anticonvulsant) plus one of the newer antipsychotic drugs. And so on. Some patients take as many as six psychoactive drugs daily.

I was on four for a while. I haven't been taking anything since 2009 and I have been doing better than ever. Though me doing better than ever is due to a million zillion factors, a notable one being me growing up (still got a ways to go on this). My personal experience suggests sometimes prescribers can be really irresponsible with mental health medication. This is just me, anecdote ≠ data, we all know that. I'm not trying to tell anyone about their treatment because I'm not a fucking doctor, disclaim disclaim disclaim.

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

Going off of Lamictal was one of the worst experiences of my life btw even with the aid of a doctor. They are some powerful pills!

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

BTW I read Whitaker's first book Mad in America. He is skeptical about the pharmaceutical industry but I think he really cares about mental health patients getting good care overall! He might hate crazy pills but he is pro-crazy people. I know if you are pro-pill you may disagree with the equation I have just set up!

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

I should note too I have definitely clocked in enough hours of therapy to win the steak knife set and maybe even the Cadillac Eldorado at this point. That probably helped? Is there even a way to know?

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Friday, 17 June 2011 04:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

Depression is cused by completely rational thoughts. The world isn't nice, and even people who love are often dicks to you.

Teeth, Friday, 17 June 2011 05:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

It is also caused by drinking before 6pm.

Teeth, Friday, 17 June 2011 05:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah...stories like yours, Abbott, are among the reasons why I'm very wary of antidepressants, even at my lowest moments. I've been on and off of pharmaceutical speed enough to know that there aren't any significant side effects associated with starting or stopping (for me, anyway). I agree that (in my experience and based on anecdotal evidence from a number of people) many people with the ability to dispense psychiatric medication are careless at best. And at the end of the day, I really don't feel like we know enough about how these medications really affect people, especially in the long term. If I need to take a cocktail of pills to deal with the side effects of the medication that I'm taking to help me, then the medication I'm taking to help me is the wrong medication, AFAIC.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 17 June 2011 05:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

This part of jel's ridiculously OTM post above:

You just wonder where to start on putting things right, and end up just getting frustrated with yourself because you haven't looked for jobs, you haven't cleaned up, you haven't got in touch with people, you struggle to be open and tell people close to you what's really going on, because you don't want to burden them, and you want to be there for them.

...is where I am right now, to an absolute T. And the part that's biggest problem, I think, is the people thing. I'm generally good by myself and not in any way needy, but I need people now and they aren't around. And that's fucking with me more than almost anything else. I guess I don't know that many nurture-y types who are likely to check up on me regularly to make sure I'm okay if they know I'm going through shit, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. But that whole absence of others things undermines all of the other stuff that I'm trying to overcome, especially since the root of what I'm trying to overcome is the sudden loss of a lot of people from my life and the idea that everyone will be going away when I least expect it.

Ugh.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 17 June 2011 05:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

I've isolated from my loved ones that know my history, and I don't let my new people know the full extent for fear of something worse than rejection. I hurt people by leaving them more than they hurt me, but it all hurts.

[I used to be flying high on a combo of welbutrin, paxil, klonopin, risperdal, with ambien to sleep. Fucking top of the world and raring to eat someone's head off if I looked at them funny. Much better now having had some therapy and booze.

hitting myself with bricks in the courtyard. A job and some guitar helped with that.]

I turned my back on my therapist, but I'm going to need her again someday.

Zachary Taylor, Friday, 17 June 2011 05:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

Not worth it to get trapped in loveless states of mind. It's really difficult to incarnate, to be a person in this world. From one perspective, it's non-stop horror. So I think it's especially important to seriously engage with the things and people in life that guide you towards love and self-understanding. I mean I get bummed out about my life and my personal failures on a pretty constant basis, but I have been privileged to learn in the past couple of years, thanks to some very dear friends, that reality is much more about love than it is doom and gloom scenarios . I was depressed for at least half a decade of my life in my late twenties/early thirties. In retrospect, I see that it was all kind of silly. I could have been giving people things that I have to give, but instead I was watching Montel Williams with the sound turned off at three in the morning. Absolutely no one benefited from my self-flagellation or heaping bad vibrations on myself.

dell (del), Friday, 17 June 2011 14:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think any medication is good to take if it makes you happier and doesnt have side effects that are too bad. Why not? The truth is medications alone aren't the asnwer anyways - they are just a boost. The rest is therapy and hard work

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Friday, 17 June 2011 16:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

I'm allergic to hard work!!

dell (del), Friday, 17 June 2011 16:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

And the part that's biggest problem, I think, is the people thing. I'm generally good by myself and not in any way needy, but I need people now and they aren't around. And that's fucking with me more than almost anything else. I guess I don't know that many nurture-y types who are likely to check up on me regularly to make sure I'm okay if they know I'm going through shit, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

This is so true. I seem to always have had a lot of people thinking that nothing ever bothers me when it isn't the case at all. And at times when I've been really down I find a lot of people just change the subject if I say anything or start talking about themselves. I don't know what the secret is to finding a support system? Because whatever advice I read seems to advocate turning to something I've never really had. Like the last time I was unemployed and v depressed thanks to lolrecession my closest friend is like "maybe you should talk to someone?" and I had no idea how to respond to that - um, I was trying to talk to you, but nevermind.

daria, Friday, 17 June 2011 17:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

Support can help but you don't have to rely on others for happiness

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Friday, 17 June 2011 17:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

daria maybe what your friend meant was ... "maybe you should talk to someone ... who is a neutral person, paid for being involved in this difficult process, trained to help people process the difficult feelings they are dealing with, so that you can receive the quality of care you deserve and so that we can collectively can enjoy our friendship on simpler terms, because i am not competent to be your therapist, and frankly, the process of trying to be a therapist to a loved one is actually quite difficult and taxing"

moonship journey to baja, Friday, 17 June 2011 17:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

that s true moonship - in fact some people get depressed themselves when trying to help someone who is depressed -

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Friday, 17 June 2011 17:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah that is the shortened version of a difficult conversation that i, my GF's sister and my GF's mom have had to have a lot lately with my GF (who is suffering from bad anxiety, not depression, which is a very different story from the stories people are telling on this thread, but still very similar re: the toll it is taking on her friends and family)

moonship journey to baja, Friday, 17 June 2011 17:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

i've started going to counselling recently for first time and it's been good, but i still think people should have some kind of support system from friends or family. i have great friends but i can honestly say i would have to shoehorn any conversation about being depressed or similar into a normal discourse. it's sort of odd...

MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING HERE!! (Local Garda), Friday, 17 June 2011 17:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

I know what she meant but at the time having no job or health insurance.. idk

daria, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

Have no expectation or wish for friends to be therapists at all, I've been on the other side and it's awful, just more dismayed at it seeming like conversations that formerly might be an important part of friendship are now off in the domain of "talk to a professional" you know?

daria, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

did you express these feeling to her?

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

Nah too late now. It's just my general impression that this kind of response is the way we live now/deserving of NYT trend piece

daria, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

we as in everyone?

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

also reference to trend piece in a different publication

daria, Friday, 17 June 2011 18:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Friday, 17 June 2011 18:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

I will say that depression has enabled me to tap into a rich vein of pitch black humor that I don't usually have access to. Maybe someday I'll get the last few months of my Twitter published, possibly with a forward by Ivan Brunetti.

SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 17 June 2011 19:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

Ha! I sometimes think the same thing but then I show my 'hilarious' depressio bon mots to people and they are like 'damn I wish the cold embrace of death could free me from the abyss of this joke.'

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Friday, 17 June 2011 22:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

I would like to hear these bon bons abbbboottttt

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Saturday, 18 June 2011 00:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

haha sometimes i think like why on earth would abbott (among other people) be depressed when she is/they are so manifestly awesome

but despite *not* being manifestly awesome i have learned again and again that things don't work that way. nevertheless i would like to throw my not-inconsiderable weight behind certain ppls' awesomeness

mookieproof, Saturday, 18 June 2011 01:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

Nah too late now. It's just my general impression that this kind of response is the way we live now/deserving of NYT trend piece

agreed, that is kind of a fucked-up phenomenon. but as other ppl pointed out on this thread being around depressed ppl makes some folks rightly or wrongly feel very uncomfortable. so in the end ya gotta respect other people's comfort levels when it comes to that. like, yeah, it's a fucked-up thing to have to pay to talk to professionals in lieu of working with friends and family support system, but at least the professionals very much want to help and have experience with some of the thornier aspects of giving help, whereas friends and family might be too overwhelmed or whatever to be of much genuine help in that area.

dell (del), Saturday, 18 June 2011 17:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

i don't think i phrased things very clearly earlier, but sometimes one is going through difficult times in life and has very good reasons to be feeling down, without necessarily being clinically depressed? and at those times it would be a good thing to have close friends and family with whom one could talk about it, and it kind of stinks to feel like interactions with close friends and family are dependent on mostly just presenting the upbeat keepin-it-positive version of yourself. i understand how being around those who are perpetually negative can make one uncomfortable (i agree & can't stand it either), i'm more.. exasperated by those people i know who don't know how to be supportive through times that are just part of life? or maybe my family's stoic midwesterner style is more dysfunctional than most.

"talk to a professional" & having it be useful is actually a pretty difficult thing to do imho. health care plans currently don't always like to cover this, or cap the number of visits and/or charge a fairly high copayment or limit quite strictly who you can see. the challenge here can be daunting: find someone who is competent + accepts insurance + is taking patients + has appointments at reasonable times vs work schedule + has offices that are a reasonable distance esp. for those who depend on public transportation. this is assuming your insurance covers professionals who talk, and not just the professionals whose job it is prescribe this that or the other medication and say have a nice day.

and if you don't have insurance you are shit out of luck mostly. i have been to some talk therapists in the past and generally most of them were not that good tbh! in retrospect, after experiences i've had, i can't help but wonder why not one of them offered advice along the lines of getting more fresh air and exercise, cutting sugar and caffeine, eating more vegetables and less bread and pasta, moving on from work or school environments that are a bad fit and make you miserable, not hanging around with people who drag you down, not living in dangerous neighborhoods or with difficult/crazy roommates, all of which has made a tremendous difference.

i'm not trying to get real personal.. in general i just think it's a shame that the health care system in this country is set up the way it is, and also that stuff like recessions, long commutes, long work hours, poor wages and benefits, little vacation time, poor diet, lack of exercise, etc. all produce environments in which just about anyone would be depressed.

daria-g, Saturday, 18 June 2011 19:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yes we all need to cry on someones shoulder sometimes.

coffeetripperspillerslyricmakeruppers (Latham Green), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

The vicious circle of isolation in depression is a bummer, I really feel like it prolonged my depression for years, but I can't see any way I could have escaped it

- feel too tired/anxious to keep up with friends / don't want to burden friends or feel too ashamed to talk about current situation, but can't think of anything else to talk about / friends think you're being rude or weird or just don't want to see them / friends don't want to make all the effort anyway / "oh god they hate me" / more self-loathing, more isolation, more depression

- or, accidentally whine to friends (or, uh, ILX - sorry ILX) / friends don't know how to react, may say "lol get a livejournal" or "lol get over yrself" or may ignore outburst totally / "oh god they hate me" / etc

I am guilty of both sides of this; I've had depressed friends and rapidly felt that there was just nothing to say, talking frequently seemed to result in both of us feeling upset or misunderstood, and I fell out of touch with them all too easily too

sambal dalek (a passing spacecadet), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

think it's hard sometimes to want to socialize when you're depressed because often you either A. don't want to talk about it at that moment, but know you're not going to be able to mask it, or B. you're afraid that you will bum your friends out with your presence and that they'll not want to invite you again in the future. sometimes can be a chore t oforce yourself to socialize in those scenarios.

why i am an anarcho-sandwich artist (Neanderthal), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

or, accidentally whine to friends (or, uh, ILX - sorry ILX)

ha, don't be sorry - we choose to read this thread

Ste, Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

i don't think i phrased things very clearly earlier, but sometimes one is going through difficult times in life and has very good reasons to be feeling down, without necessarily being clinically depressed? and at those times it would be a good thing to have close friends and family with whom one could talk about it, and it kind of stinks to feel like interactions with close friends and family are dependent on mostly just presenting the upbeat keepin-it-positive version of yourself.

I totally relate to this, it must be fairly common as well. Like I don't really know how else to live, I think honestly some people (and this may seem funny on here) would think I am the most ultra-positive person, as such there's no real room for anything else. Sometimes the cogs just kinda turn on their own and you have to just be like HI, YEAH I'M GREAT! with almost everyone, and there's no real room or time to not be like that.

MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING HERE!! (Local Garda), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

i don't really think everyone on earth is a "i don't really want to know about it" keep-it-positive-around-me kind of person but i've learned a very large percentage are.

strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

which is fine! but not so much if yr depressed.

strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah i think part of the prob is when would you bring up being depressed...most of the time i meet up with friends to do something fun or something that involves spending time with people i don't know as well or whatever.

MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING HERE!! (Local Garda), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

my current batch of friends aren't that way at all but it took me 10 years to weed out the bad apples to get there.

why i am an anarcho-sandwich artist (Neanderthal), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

(xpost)

why i am an anarcho-sandwich artist (Neanderthal), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's a juggling act because i don't believe it's healthy to plaster on the cockeyed i'm-forcing-myself-to-look-happy grin all the time, but i've also lost friends and alienated people over the years from being too candid or yakky about this kind of stuff, so i've probably gone much, more inward with it over the last five years.

strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yea...I kinda learned at age 25 that nobody likes the person who drops their 'life is dreary, bleak, and useless' on them daily. but it also helped that my life flat out just got a lot better too.

why i am an anarcho-sandwich artist (Neanderthal), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh, I was thinking of some non-depression-related threads that I've had a brief angst-burst on, but thanks! (xps to Ste)

I'm pretty sure many people irl think I'm a miserable cow, but I've been surprised in the past when I've said something a bit glum and my friend seemed to find this totally out of character, or when a couple of people have remarked on how laidback I am, when I get anxious over little things all the time and my bf is always commenting on what a worrier I am, etc

which surprises me because I don't feel very good at hiding that side away, but I know all too well the awkward silence that follows any gloomy remark (unless done as a wry "gallows humour" one-liner before an immediate subject-change), and the feeling of "guess I shouldn't have said that" - so I do try to avoid it, but it bursts out every so often anyway

sambal dalek (a passing spacecadet), Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

i get the "you don't SEEM like a clinical depressive" thing a lot. on the other hand i also get a lot of "you shouldn't be such a miserable bastard." people see what they want to see? i don't know.

strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Saturday, 18 June 2011 20:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah i agree with most of what you guys are saying here. and i can appreciate everything you said in that post up there daria, about it being difficult to find someone that's a good fit to talk to on the professional level with all of the insurance issues and so forth. i have managed to find helpful people in the past though for whatever it's worth.

that being said, one sort of peculiar experience which may sound small but actually turned out to be very therapeutic for me involved when i was scheduled to go to an appointment with someone for the first time, but they completely forgot to give me the code that i needed to punch in to get into the building. i tried calling, etc., but there was no answer. since i happened to be "in the neighborhood", i ended up stopping by a bar where a couple of old friends were visiting after work. i had been isolating myself pretty intensely for a month or so at that point, and the experience of being greeted with warm hugs by those guys was probably more valuable than anything that might have been communicated to me by the therapist that particular day.

dell (del), Saturday, 18 June 2011 22:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

also yeah it's nice when a therapist gives one some practical life-advice. moment from allen ginsberg's life has always stuck with me after reading it in some biography. basically he is in his twenties, has a fairly cushy job and is involved with some perfectly nice young woman, but at the same time he is actually making himself miserable b/c he is not writing and is trying to push down his sexual feelings for dudes. so the therapist is like "listen, why don't you quit your job, write if that's what you like to do, and meet some nice young man. people will always like you". which i think is true, regardless of the fact that most of us won't have epiphanous moments like that, and never mind the fact that his life partner turned out to be this bipolar guy whom i guess offered some ~challenges~ at times. but nonetheless i think much of people's depression is augmented by trying to be all things to all people or taking on ridiculous burdens of phantasmal expectations, when in reality most people who are close to us in life really only want for us to be happy on some basic level and could in large part care less about the vehicles that get us there as long as it doesn't involve actively harming ourselves and others.

dell (del), Saturday, 18 June 2011 22:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

That's wonderful dell. I'd wish everyone in this thread an experience like that, being welcomed in warm, open arms of friends that way.

xp

...wow! (Le Bateau Ivre), Saturday, 18 June 2011 22:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

so the therapist is like "listen, why don't you quit your job, write if that's what you like to do, and meet some nice young man. people will always like you". which i think is true, regardless of the fact that most of us won't have epiphanous moments like that, and never mind the fact that his life partner turned out to be this bipolar guy whom i guess offered some ~challenges~ at times. but nonetheless i think much of people's depression is augmented by trying to be all things to all people or taking on ridiculous burdens of phantasmal expectations, when in reality most people who are close to us in life really only want for us to be happy on some basic level and could in large part care less about the vehicles that get us there as long as it doesn't involve actively harming ourselves and others.

This is so true it hurts. Realizing and truly believing the people close to us want nothing but the best for us, regardless of in what way, how, where that "best" is or unfolds, is one of the things that, for me, proved (and still does at times) hardest to achieve. To come to that realization. I have accepted that I will forever need reassurance in this matter - not in a "i don't want to disappoint my close ones", rather in a "I can't for the life of me believe these people love and accept me without prejudice or a 'catch'" kind of way.

...wow! (Le Bateau Ivre), Saturday, 18 June 2011 22:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

i get the "you don't SEEM like a clinical depressive" thing a lot. on the other hand i also get a lot of "you shouldn't be such a miserable bastard." people see what they want to see? i don't know.

― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Saturday, June 18, 2011 3:59 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i'm reading this and i may be projecting as someone who has more or less stopped being depressed after some late adolescence/early adulthood bouts of depression, so ymmv. but i know when i felt like dying p much every day, i think my mom struggled with it a lot b/c she didn't want me to be in pain, so i recognize a sentiment of "all these circumstances and what i know about u lead me to believe u should NOT BE SAD ALL THE TIME". i don't know if it is at all similar to what you in particular get.

mississippi john hurt, but alabama john feeling okay (m bison), Saturday, 18 June 2011 23:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

hm, in the time it took me to write that, it looks like other ppl said similar things

mississippi john hurt, but alabama john feeling okay (m bison), Saturday, 18 June 2011 23:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

it never completely goes away

sarahel, Sunday, 19 June 2011 04:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

been coming to terms with ^^^that fact recently. I've dealt with depression for as long as I can remember, so I'm figuring it's just a part of me. With that in mind I've realized that being depressed is mostly just fucking boring! Being in some damn purgatory of wanting/not wanting to do shit just sucks. Somehow that logic has gotten me out of the house recently. I go find some place else or some other way to be depressed and bored. At least mixes it up.

shaane, Sunday, 19 June 2011 15:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Feel the need to punch someone, anyone, in the throat. Dunno where that's come from but been feeling it for a while.

I am Louise Boat (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 08:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Please tell us more. We're here to listen.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 28 July 2011 12:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh hai. i think my medication stopped working. not sure how i feel about this yet.

dance cook (get bent), Thursday, 11 August 2011 09:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

Has that happened before? Can you consult your doctor about this? Recently it seemed my anxiety meds stopped working, but then I realized, considering the circumstances, I would probably have had a complete meltdown without'em. lol

Nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 11 August 2011 11:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

I went off antidepressants (Effexor) earlier in the year, but recently I had to ask my doctor for something else, because in just the last four weeks:

- Both my and my wife's cars were broken into while they were sitting in our driveway.
- We had to have two of our cats euthanized for incurable illnesses.
- My car broke down and may not be repairable in a cost-efficient way.
- Our home was broken into WHILE WE WERE IN BED ASLEEP and both of our laptops and my wife's work laptop were stolen.

After the second thing listed was when I asked my doctor for something, and she gave me a 3-week prescription for clonazepam plus a followup appointment. But adding on the second two items, I feel like I'm suffering from PTSD or something. The pills are barely keeping me together, I can't sleep without the lights on and even then it's only 3-4 hours a night, I feel like I'm coming completely unraveled.

Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Thursday, 11 August 2011 14:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

Has that happened before? Can you consult your doctor about this?

it may have happened before. but i've been on this drug (lexapro) for nearly 5 years and so reverting back to how i felt before is a little jarring. i want it to be one way! but it's the other way!

i did talk to my doc today -- we're gonna add buspar to the mix. never tried it; heard varied things about it but will give it a shot.

dance cook (get bent), Friday, 12 August 2011 00:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

I really hope it helps. Good luck.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 12 August 2011 14:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

Hope it works for you!

I'm feeling better...really stepped up my efforts to get a new job, rather than just sitting around. Do get 'attacks' of tension/sadness for no reason, but just try and go out for a walk when this happens.

jel --, Friday, 12 August 2011 15:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

Good luck all!

Elderflower Gimcrax Flores (admrl), Friday, 12 August 2011 15:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

Phil, maybe get a mild sleeping pill? Sleep deprivation is horrible.

Jel, happy you are doing better. :-)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 12 August 2011 15:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

i took buspirone for a while. it made me dizzy for five minutes or so each time i took it. ime i'm not sure how much any drugs ever helped me. i guess they must have to some extent, but then again, if i'm on the fence about it, how dramatic could the results have been? i don't really get depressed anymore. get sad about life here and there, but when it dips past sadness i recognize it as my neurotransmitters being depleted and i need fresh air, sunshine, nourishing food, moving my body, life-affirming social situations/creative things, etc

still get anxious on occasion, but recognize it as temporary situation in the body, and don't feed it. just try to be as kind to myself as possible and ground myself physically. only reason i am glibly dispensing "easy for you to say" testimony is b/c i was a total mess at one point, like in that movie where sigourney weaver plays a detective or whatever, but now i'm pretty good in general. personally subscribe to the ayurvedic or tcm models that such stuff is caused by psychophysical energies acting up (which is almost a given to a greater or lesser degree in our frantic culture) but i understand if others are like, whatever dude. but yeah, i've become acquainted with severely uncomfortable states and try to make friends with them these days until they pack off and depart, which they always do, obv. it's just a learning experience about things that come and go, aka everything

dell (del), Friday, 12 August 2011 15:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

Our home was broken into WHILE WE WERE IN BED ASLEEP and both of our laptops and my wife's work laptop were stolen.

AHH! AHH! FUCK! I might need to up my dose just reading that Phil. Sorry to hear about your run of fortune. Hope things turn around for you, pronto.

kkvgz, Friday, 12 August 2011 15:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

yah, where the hell do you guys live?

dell (del), Friday, 12 August 2011 15:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

Cleveland Heights, which is generally a good, safe neighborhood, but with Northeast Ohio hit so hard by the ongoing recession, and bordering East Cleveland being such a shithole, there's been a real uptick in crime. I am just so freaked out by the idea that someone was in our house, while we were there. I know Leigh-Anne went downstairs for something at like 1:30am -- they could have been in the house then! She could have been hurt!

Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Friday, 12 August 2011 15:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

Oh wow, this is in Cleveland? I know East Cleveland. I'm sorry Phil, that's just awful. Intruders are #1 thing I'm scared of, so I can see how that would affect you and your wife so deeply.

it was pleasant and delightful, just like (La Lechera), Friday, 12 August 2011 15:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

Man, I'm saying, an alarm system can run you as little as $30 a month plus installation.

kkvgz, Friday, 12 August 2011 15:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Our home was broken into WHILE WE WERE IN BED ASLEEP

Phil, I'm so sorry this happened to you guys. Mr. Jaq and I had the same thing happen (including laptop and wallet full of ID and checks for deposit stolen) when we lived in a loft. It took us both a long time to feel comfortable and safe enough to sleep w/o lights, and it kicked my generally held in check OCD up to the point of it being a real problem. I didn't want to medicate myself to sleep - I wanted to be able to react if, heaven forbid, I had to in the middle of the night. So we would have one of us nap heavily while the other was vigilant, for awhile. After a few months, the anxiety faded, only to be brought back in full when some utility workers found my wallet + ID on the roof of another building. It took a lot to stop thinking about this person being in the same room with us as we slept.

Living in a rented place that could not be permanently modified, I ended up getting these for all the double-hung windows and doing the door lock check many times every night. Eventually we were okay to sleep. Do what you need to do to feel safe, get stronger scrips from your doctor if that's what you need right now.

Jaq, Friday, 12 August 2011 16:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah, so traumatic and gross. my unsolicited internet advice -- do what you need take care of yourselves, but of course w/o obsessing or fixating on it . like don't let desperate ppl win over your default peace of mind. thankfully most ppl want to help and not harm you; although it's perfectly natural to fixate on contrarian scenarios after someone violates your home

dell (del), Friday, 12 August 2011 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

I've been sleeping with an aluminum softball bat. Like, in the bed with me, holding the handle while I sleep.

Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Friday, 12 August 2011 16:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

: (

kkvgz, Friday, 12 August 2011 16:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

I did buy it dinner, though, so I think we're cool.

We're looking into alarm systems, because while police don't think the culprit was in the house very long, it's possible they cased the house for future burglaries. The other shitty thing is, my laptop was logged in to Google at the time for Gmail, which also means someone could access my Google Docs account, which contained a document which recorded logins and passwords for all of our credit card sites, utilities, banking, etc. It was protected, but christ knows what people can hack these days. So I had to go through and change all of our logins and passwords, and report all of our credit card information as potentially stolen.

Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Friday, 12 August 2011 16:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

i had my laptop burgled while i slept once too :( no fun. i "solved" the situation by actually having a good lock on my door. shitty locks are the cause of 100% of burglaries i've been victim of. get a good lock and don't worry about it any more.

Dark Noises from the Eurozone (Tracer Hand), Friday, 12 August 2011 16:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

Phil, would you consider getting a dog? It doesn't have to be like an attack beast, but a dog that will bark furiously when something's awry makes me feel a lot safer after some creepy things went down in my apt building.

it was pleasant and delightful, just like (La Lechera), Friday, 12 August 2011 16:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

Dogs also snuggle better than baseball bats.

it was pleasant and delightful, just like (La Lechera), Friday, 12 August 2011 16:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Then again, baseball bats won't shit in the corner, so ymmv.

it was pleasant and delightful, just like (La Lechera), Friday, 12 August 2011 16:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

They came in through a window. We have great locks and deadbolts on both the front and side doors, and every window in the house was closed/locked EXCEPT for two crank-out casement style windows in our back sunroom. (See photo of room here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/muggingovercoffee/488116636/) They were opened about 5" because that room is like a hothouse so we like to air it out. Someone pulled the window open farther, then pushed on the screen until it popped out.

Keep in mind, from the outside, that window is a good 5+ feet off the ground, and it's only about 14" wide. Whoever did this was very small, but able to hoist himself up quite easily (police took a shoe print off the siding and from the living room), and seemed to know exactly what they wanted and where to find it. But I can't think of anyone who has ever been in our house who would be a likely suspect.

xxp After just recently losing two cats I don't think we could think about getting a dog right now. Certainly not for burglar-alarm type purposes. Although nothing would make me happier than siccing like, a bull mastiff on someone.

Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Friday, 12 August 2011 17:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I have a back-up fleet of chihuahuas in case a burglar tries to come in one of the windows that isn't alarmed.

kkvgz, Friday, 12 August 2011 17:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

that would be pretty great if you did

it was pleasant and delightful, just like (La Lechera), Friday, 12 August 2011 17:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Friday, 12 August 2011 17:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well, a chihuahua, a maltese, and two hybrids. They're almost completely useless most of the time, but they'd get the job done if someone tried to get in our house.

That picture's great, Phil.

kkvgz, Friday, 12 August 2011 17:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

I love it! What a bunch of happy little friends.

it was pleasant and delightful, just like (La Lechera), Friday, 12 August 2011 17:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

i like to sleep with the windows open, but whenever i go out i have to make sure every window in the house is locked, as well as the front and back doors. we're facing a busy street with minimal parking, so *knock on wood* someone out there would notice if a burglar was trying to get in.

dance cook (get bent), Saturday, 13 August 2011 00:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

how's it going dance

mookieproof, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 07:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

ask me again next week.

the ramen corner (get bent), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 07:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

ok good luck

mookieproof, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 07:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

sup

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 04:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

it takes 4 weeks to reach full effect. i'm on the second week and i just started adding the lunchtime pill to the breakfast and dinner pills. i don't feel anything yet, except more tired than usual. it's been a difficult week though, for various reasons, so "not feeling better" is par for the course.

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 04:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

how often do you feel like ditching everything medicinal and letting the chips fall, etc

i do, constantly. but the consequences are never suitably epic; i just stay in bed for a few days while considering unpleasantries. and then, i dunno, the same shit just continues forever.

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 04:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

i can't ditch everything; it'd be too tempting to lie there in the dark all day and make bad decisions about my personal upkeep.

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 04:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

the same shit just continues forever

life, in my experience.

(not even meant to be sarcastic. in the belly of the beast myself at the moment.)

Lamp...in my vagina?? (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 04:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

i've spent a ridic amount of time on ilx today because i've been down; when i feel okay i just check in on a few threads and go about my business. abnormal ilx use is a cry for help. :-(

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 04:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

so there are things that i *know* help

like especially exercise
and not drinking
and reading
and trying to keep regular hours

some are more difficult than others

but i struggle to do any of them

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

reading does help. anything escapist that won't destroy your liver does help. i say that while i finish a strong manhattan.

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

<3

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

good vibes, homies

markers, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

for me, i'm indulging in reading, tv, movies, music. the reading's going a little slower because i have trouble concentrating on books at home -- it's only while commuting or killing time somewhere.

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

re-read this today and it was a to-the-bone gutting:

The almost 35-year-old Terry Schmidt had very nearly nothing left of the delusion that he differed from the great herd of common men, not even in his despair at not making a difference, or in the great hunger to have an impact that in his late twenties he'd clung to as evidence that even though he was emerging as a sort of a failure the grand ambitions which he'd judged himself a failure were somehow exceptional and superior to the common run's--not anymore.

Lamp...in my vagina?? (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

that seems like inappropriate reading material tbh

and yet you have started threads and been tall and beloved (perhaps misleadingly) by randy music critic fans for quite some time now

how have you done it

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

pigheadedness tbh.

also life has a weird way of bouncing back at the most unexpected moments so far. and so.

Lamp...in my vagina?? (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

^^^optimism! bless

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

people who follow me on facebook have had to deal with my recent spate of posts about the hallmark channel reruns of the waltons and little house on the prairie. so. fucking. epic. i think being a pre-1940 hardy rural farmgirl would be a nice restorative for me and kick my ass a bit.

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

in my dream i get to be a pioneer chick in 1880s minnesota AND a tummler in the catskills AND glenn branca's girlfriend

all at the same time

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

read that as glenn beck's girlfriend and got pretty nervous tbh

Lamp...in my vagina?? (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

also "tummler" <3

Lamp...in my vagina?? (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

my people

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

i keep catching my user name in this thread and its v disconcerting

Lamp, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

get out of my vagina then

Lamp...in my vagina?? (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

and the boys usually have such a hard time getting into jessica's vagina!!!

Lamp, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

okay, okay. i relent.

Lamp...in my vagina?? (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

there we go.

get out of my vagina and into my car (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

get out of my memes (etc)

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh no its ok its just that im feeling ~kinda down~ today and kept thinking that id posted itt (which i try not to do) and blah blah blah

Lamp, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah i was trying to not be bummer dude today and instead be internet asshole strongo hulkington

get out of my vagina and into my car (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

your dreams were your ticket out

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

no dreams, no ticket

mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

sorry for being the internet asshole who posted the ginormous image; swear it wasn't that big when i clicked on it.

matthew lesko.... in my ? (get bent), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 05:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think being a pre-1940 hardy rural farmgirl would be a nice restorative for me and kick my ass a bit.

Almost a tie-in to that "guarantee your children will need therapy" article, or maybe I just read it like that. Now I'm sorry, but you'll have to be depressed after the cows are milked and the bread's rising.

it's not that print journalists don't have a sense of humour, it's just (Laurel), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 13:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

get out of my memes (etc)

moderate to heavy tuesday lol

dell (del), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 14:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

buy some succulents and take very good care of them. move on to green plants and small animals. frogs are nice. go outside more, walk, hike in nature. even 20 minutes outside helps. collect shells an driftwood, flowers, pinecones, etc. go camping.

mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 16:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

you can still reconnect with nature daily without going back in time to the 1940s

mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 16:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

isn't there an antidepressant thread

i can't find it

surm, Friday, 2 September 2011 14:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'm gonna see about getting a guy to give me something. i've done your lexapro and your paxil and i forget the last thing they gave me that i never refilled the prescription for, a couple of years back.

i just hate taking pills so, so much. it feels like an admission of deficiency. like i need to download a patch to work as advertised.

and it doesn't just shallow the depths, it erodes my best moments too. like straightening a sine wave. i just wind up flatlined.

i used to say that i was willing to suffer the lows if it meant i could live the highs, my best and most ecstatic moments.

now i'm not so sure.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 16 September 2011 07:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

This, I think, is going to be the worst and most lasting legacy of the 100-year-plus war on drugs: the idea of any and all mind-altering meds as being equivalent to a personal failing.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Friday, 16 September 2011 07:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

Man. Take care of yourself. I'm wearing myself out just this moment, but if a time with some pills will help you full on live for years to come, allow it. Meanwhile, sleep, cut back on drinking, exercise your body and brain. Read up on some deep psychology like Jon G. Allen's (from Menninger) book .

It took rejecting life, rejecting meds, accepting some shit, therapy, all sorts of stuff to get where I wanted to be alive. You're one of the most alive dudes I've read from on the internet.

good thoughts to you.

Zachary Taylor, Friday, 16 September 2011 07:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

http://www.menningerclinic.com/resources/J_word.htm

I'm only linking that because I kind of just violated the spirit of it. This doctor's writing and research (I read his book "Coping With Trauma" at the right time) was one of the steps toward me getting out of my head enough to put a cause and effect and possible solution in place. That led to some hope and away from despair.

I don't know. It may not be relevant to your specifics. I'm sharing because it mattered to me.

Zachary Taylor, Friday, 16 September 2011 07:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

thanks for that link Zach, i needed to read that today.

Chapman Pincher Overdrive (Noodle Vague), Friday, 16 September 2011 07:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

This, I think, is going to be the worst and most lasting legacy of the 100-year-plus war on drugs: the idea of any and all mind-altering meds as being equivalent to a personal failing.

― Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Friday, September 16, 2011 2:17 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol worse than our out of control prison population??

sorry for party blogging (D-40), Friday, 16 September 2011 09:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

poll

a fake wannabe trying to be a pimp (history mayne), Friday, 16 September 2011 09:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

like i need to download a patch to work as advertised.

greatest analogy.

civilisation and its discotheques (c sharp major), Friday, 16 September 2011 09:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

GOOD POINT DEEJ!!! +1

mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Friday, 16 September 2011 16:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

Thanks, guys, for the kind words.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 16 September 2011 16:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

anyway zach and christine OTM

you don't need to beat yourself up about it HOOS ... don't forget, the "up by your bootstraps" extreme-self reliance attitude is basically just hangover from the "social media assholes" of the 1940s

as much as we need to worry about "the medicalization of the human condition" - BTW if this guy thinks this is a 20th century phenom he needs to read some foucault or something, i dunno - we also need to worry as much or more about people not getting the help they need because they're afraid of not living up to some societal archetype of what "the human condition" is

mr peabody (moonship journey to baja), Friday, 16 September 2011 16:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

felt like blowin up some hyperbole sry

sorry for party blogging (D-40), Friday, 16 September 2011 18:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

xpost feelin that zach

shaane, Saturday, 17 September 2011 04:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

YO MY BOY HOOS

sucks you feel this way. dunno what i can do but if you want to chat or something, shout me out.

Ravaging Rick Rude (a hoy hoy), Saturday, 17 September 2011 12:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

Ok, it is better to get these things out, right?

My biggest problem, I think, is just a general anxiety issue. Its got to the point where I am turning down seeing friends, and close friends, the type that have seen me have drunken panic attacks in my own vomit and still happily enjoy my presence, for no real reason. Just an odd sense of dread.

But this past week, I've gone for a job interview. Shitty cold calling job, I made it past the interview to an 'evaluation' stage. omg talking to people on the phone, having to be nice to them, having to sell them shit they dont want - if it wasnt charity cold calling i think i would have just thrown up on my desk. I think I got a lot better over the two days but they didnt want me back and considering I burst into tears on the train home after my second day yesterday, I am kinda glad. But I also need a fucking London based job so I can stop fucking living with my dad and working at Tesco part time.

Anyway, need to think of it as a learning experience. I actually did improve, made it over 1 hurdle. Take a deep breath, start looking for jobs again. Maybe not cold calling ones. Ok, cool. May read the football thread first. And look at some porn. Maybe take a run. Breathe.

Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 09:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

most of your advice to yourself seems good? steady with the booze, enjoy fresh air. i kinda think no matter how badly one needs a job, the kind of job that will crush you from the inside just isn't worth it ever.

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 10:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

otm.

barely drink tho, but also good advice

Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 10:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

that bit was for me :D

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 10:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Good luck ahoy hoy - there's nothing like the urgency and pain of having to look for work to send me into a blind panic, so i empathise. Finding ways to keep positive and motivated is probably your best bet. By all means go for a run etc, but it's best to plan activities like that around your day - drawing up a plan for the week and sticking to it so that you're not tempted to procrastinate.

^^this is advice for me too.

I want your nose, your shoes and your unicycle (dog latin), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 11:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tip: don't get a job in IT support.

^^^ this is advice for me too.

insert 2012 appropriate display name here (snoball), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 13:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think I would find a job in IT support hilar on account of how little I know abt computers.

Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 14:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

"But I also need a fucking London based job so I can stop fucking living with my dad and working at Tesco part time"

what kinda job do you want? there are lots of london ilxors on here...

Crackle Box, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

p much anything at this point. mostly been applying for stuff where my english degree *should* mean something (so, publishing, copywrite etc.) but atm i am thinking of just going up once a week to hand out cvs in bars in a different part of town once a week.

Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Did anyone else hear this? Reported on NPR the other day was the news of recent scientific research into the effects of ketamine on depression—results look promising that it could provide immediate relief with lasting effects. Here's the link.

Diary of Anne Frank, Confessions Of A Teenage Drama Queen (scottfree), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 22:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Only time I ever took ketamine I just had a three headache. But maybe another go!

Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 1 February 2012 23:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

the patent on the overpriced medication i've been taking for 5 years expires in march. i'm so fucking relieved. i'm on a new deductible cycle for my insurance and i can't afford to buy the full amount of this month's prescription without the coverage applied to it.

mitt romney never has to think about this stuff.

textile in thighville (get bent), Thursday, 2 February 2012 01:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

a lot of the generic versions of SSRIs are less successful, so be careful gb. (ymmv).

"renegade" gnome (remy bean), Thursday, 2 February 2012 01:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

a hoy hoy, bless you. If you want a job that will actually last and pay the bills, don't get a cold calling job. Voice of depressio experience here.

I'm trying to think of all the ways I can inspire you (Abbbottt), Thursday, 2 February 2012 01:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

tbh i'm surprised that drug patent extension hasn't become a thing for the mitts of the world

if disney can keep our grubby hands off mickey . . .

mookieproof, Thursday, 2 February 2012 01:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

(xp) i don't even care at this point. i just want lexapro to foad already.

textile in thighville (get bent), Thursday, 2 February 2012 01:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ha, i wasnt caring abt paying bills. In fact I was half hoping for it to last out till just like a week into moving, in which i'd live on benefits and continue looking for a job but away from herre. Smartest thing most of my friends did was move somewhere quick out of uni, get their rent covered on benefits for 3 months and then get a job where they wanted to be. I thought I was smart coming home and paying off my overdrafts!

Aesop Rizzle (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 2 February 2012 01:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

gb, did you try Celexa (citalopram) before Lexapro? It's almost the same stuff, Celexa has generics. But if it'll be moot in a few months maybe not worth the hassle of trying to switch to save the $. Or £ or whatever.

tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Thursday, 2 February 2012 03:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I doubt I am in the d-zone, but I cld be "happier." Feeling of drowning. Feeling as though I have no "me time" (god I hate that term). But I guess that's life now: full time job, caring for sick/dying grandparents, two kids, household,... *just snap out of it* lol

Nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 2 February 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't tell if I'm feeling better because of my new prescription or because it's goddamn 75º out here on Feb. 1.

pplains, Thursday, 2 February 2012 19:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://depressioncomix.tumblr.com

mookieproof, Sunday, 12 February 2012 04:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is it coincidence they all look so much like dead-eyed Tom Batiuk characters?

high five delivery device (Abbbottt), Sunday, 12 February 2012 05:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

probably?

but maybe not

mookieproof, Sunday, 12 February 2012 05:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

fuck you kālidāsa

mookieproof, Sunday, 12 February 2012 06:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

mookie OTM

this day is a dessicate moth crawling with baby spiders

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Sunday, 12 February 2012 06:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

(d)

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Sunday, 12 February 2012 06:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

kalidasa otm imo

dell (del), Sunday, 12 February 2012 06:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

mookieproof, Saturday, 25 February 2012 05:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

<3 <3

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Saturday, 25 February 2012 06:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have come to regard all human attempts at connecting as basically disguised desperation.

Eric H., Wednesday, 7 March 2012 18:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and I bookmarked this thread. Translation: I'm getting honest with myself.

Eric H., Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh man this one is SO me

Medical Dance Crab With Lesson (Trayce), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Can I just say: after spending the better part of a year in the blackest pit of existential dread and awfulness I've ever experienced and foreseeing no chance of ever feeling good or normal or hopeful again...I feel relatively good and normal and hopeful again. Maybe not all the way out of the woods quite yet, but definitely close enough that I can see more than woods ahead of me. It feels like foolishness in the midst of deep despair to tell yourself that you might actually feel better someday, but it's a belief that's worth clinging to and working your way towards, however slowly. Because it is an attainable goal, and it's kind of awe-inspiring when you get to the other side and fully recognize what you went through to get there.

The Unbearable Lightness Of Peeing (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have come to regard all human attempts at connecting as basically disguised desperation.

I can't otm this, but I wouldn't object to putting it a little more softly. Maybe that attempts to connect are a comfort and a bulwark against memories of dark times and anticipation of future ones. Connection meets needs people have, that if they go unmet might make life darker and sadder, but it doesn't have to be desperation, and it doesn't even have to be disguised.

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

fuck you, happy guy

(j/k thanks for hope)

xp

mookieproof, Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

thoughtcat otm

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

and yeah, i'm okay with human attempts at connecting whatever they may be. even if it's desperation that drives us, that's okay, cuz the alternative to connecting warrants desperation.

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't say that this is a thing that will necessarily work for everyone, but the rope that was ultimately successful in helping me pull myself out of the morass was asking myself, "Do I want my life to be a testament to despair? Do I want to add to the sum of misery in the world? Or do I ultimately want to have some sort of positive net effect on the worl and those around me, if only by trying to embrace life rather than resigning myself to slow death?" It may sound facile on the face of it, but it's a thing I've clung to tenaciously and returned to daily to remind myself, even when things start to feel a little sink-ier than I'd like, why I want to continue working towards making a better and healthier and happier life for myself.

Christie Wrinkly (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, that's good advice. my problem is that the raven keeps on saying "nevermore" no matter what, so affirmations are like pissing in the ocean. nullity is v hard to argue with.

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

yob have a fine album called the great cessation. yob otm.

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

i v. much appreciate your empathy and suggestions (honestly!) but

It may sound facile on the face of it

yes

mookieproof, Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow, Deric, some of the entries in that series hit really close to home. Good find.

This one, in particular, cuts right to the point:

Eric H., Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

It may sound facile on the face of it

deep down, i'm pretty superficial

E.M. von Hornbostel (get bent), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

This one, in particular, cuts right to the point:

heh. pretty cheerful, actually. i see my friends as obvious members of a club that would have me as a member. it does not reflect at all well on them.

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

^ okay, that's only at my worst...

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 04:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Beats thinking out there somewhere are your "real" friends, only they won't have you as a member.

Eric H., Thursday, 8 March 2012 05:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

desire for connection isn't (necessarily) desperate, it's some sort of biological hunger.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 March 2012 05:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think what I'm saying is that lately I either don't crave or have trained myself not to crave connection (especially not the biological kind).

Eric H., Thursday, 8 March 2012 05:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm guessing this has not made you happy

mookieproof, Thursday, 8 March 2012 05:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Just socially anorexic.

Eric H., Thursday, 8 March 2012 05:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, for the sake of context: up until a couple of months ago, I had given up entirely. I'd hit the wall a while before wherein I acknowledged that absolutely nothing meant anything, and that every human action not strictly related to survival was essentially a means of distracting ourselves from our impending mortality. I was reeling from a number of deaths and the subsequent loss of my home, my long-term relationship, and my job. I'd come around to the idea that there was a definite design for the universe, and that the only role humankind played in that order was fertilizer. I believed the Final Destination series of films offered a valuable lesson in just laying the fuck down when the universe had made clear it was finished with your ass. And so on and so on and so on. At some point, though, I started to acknowledge that these viewpoints, if expressed, might have a negative impact on people who were more hopeful and trying to live as strife-free a life as possible. And also that, even if they weren't expressed, this psychic poison would find ways of leaking out and affecting others. I didn't want anyone else to feel the way I felt. So I really started thinking in terms of my life as a legacy of despair. I was done, ready to just lie down and ride out the rest of whatever lay before me with as little resistance and, hopefully, as little engagement as possible, but my mindset started slowly changing the more I tried to view my situation from an outside perspective and the effect it would ultimately have on the people who I knew cared about me.

I don't know how well I'm articulating all of this because this is the first time I've put these thoughts together outside of my own head. Put simply, though, the more I thought about the possibility of living my life in terms of trying to bring at least a little baseline good into the world, the better I started feeling. I guess it might've been helpful to point out that I had legitimately given up all hope, full stop, as little as a couple of months ago. You can make a startling amount of progress towards making life feel worth living in a startlingly short amount of time.

Christie Wrinkly (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 8 March 2012 05:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's an interesting description of a journey, dwh. i can relate, cuz i've been in and out of the depths myself, and though the cognitive scenery was different in my case (not as other-directed, for one thing), the basic map is similar. small steps leading to bigger steps leading to gradual transformation.

the reason that real depression and despair are so unreachable from the semi-positive point where you're at (and i'm afraid they are) is that darkness and light don't speak the same language. i often feel as though a creature lives in me, an evil thing that exists only to negate and in doing so to destroy me. when i'm falling, the creature's will overwhelms my own, so that it doesn't matter what my goals might be, or how i might feel about things. i say "i want to change", and i really do, but a deep down voice says "you will not", and that's that. there is nothing that cannot be made nothing, no loss or failure that can't be ignored on the way out.

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 06:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry, that got kinda doomy at the end there

meticulously showcased in a stunning fart presentation (contenderizer), Thursday, 8 March 2012 06:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, dude, I get that we're effectively speaking different languages here. This shit wouldn't have meant a thing to me when I was staring into the void last year. I guess the best way to boil it down is that when you feel like you've lost everything or like nothing matters, at least there's still hope. Then when you give up on hope, it's like a cascading freefall without a bottom and just a vast expanse of nothingness in all directions. That absense of hope is the scariest or most numbing thing imaginable. But hope doesn't necessarily disappear forever even when you give up on it completely. It's kind of an imminently renewable resource but also one that we can get really good at repelling when we don't want to deal with it.

I do disagree, though, that I can't access that bleakness from where I'm at. At present, I feel (not to mix my previous metaphor too hardcore) like I've found a pretty solid plank of wood to use as a buoy, but I'm still floating in those waters and I can see that abyss below me. I'm just trying like a motherfucker to focus my attention on the plank because it's the thing that's saving my life and keeping me from making mesothelioma jokes to cope with the horror of consiousness.

One Hundred Years Of Solid Food (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 8 March 2012 06:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

the thing is, when you think about that all you have is a plank, and other people have boats, hope starts to feel like cold fucking comfort

sarahell, Thursday, 8 March 2012 06:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

when life gives you a plank, make planktonade.

omar little, Thursday, 8 March 2012 06:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

sounds really delicious

sarahell, Thursday, 8 March 2012 06:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, there's also some kinda ego dissolution-ish shit going on at present that I'm far less capable of articulating but which is doing a lot of the heavy lifting with respect to warding off my own personal darkness. My immediate response would be, "why should I care what somebody else is using to keep themselves from sinking as long as my method continues to work?" I'm starting to get a keen sense that most of the things that cause distress/anxiety/despair are intimately wrapped up in ego. I've spent an awful lot of my life doing pretty much what you suggest: comparing some aspect of myself or my life to something external and coming up short. But I'm starting to realize what a useless ego stroke that can be. When I take myself and my pwecious feewings out of the equation when trying to suss out a step to take towards positive forward momentum, I realize how much the satiation of my concept of self has been largely one hugely insurmountable obstacle in the pursuit of some level of contentment or inner peace. I'm really ready to get the eff out of my own way already.

One Hundred Years Of Solid Food (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 8 March 2012 07:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've spent an awful lot of my life doing pretty much what you suggest: comparing some aspect of myself or my life to something external and coming up short.

oh that wasn't a suggestion for what you should do, that's what sometimes happens and continues to make you feel like shit.

sarahell, Thursday, 8 March 2012 07:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

the patent doesn't expire until march 14, but i guess forest labs worked something out.

the dried stigmas of the saffron crocus (get bent), Thursday, 8 March 2012 09:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm starting to get a keen sense that most of the things that cause distress/anxiety/despair are intimately wrapped up in ego.

Yeah, I'm wondering how many people attempt self-transcendence to alleviate depression.

Eric H., Thursday, 8 March 2012 12:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

I find it quite funny in a masochistic way, for years I obsessed/had panic attack over my job and now the problem is "real". Strangely enough I can cope better than I imagined. Thing is: whenever the world around me is in panic, I suddenly calm down and be strong (for a while anyway). Weird. OR rather, bit fucked up.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 9 March 2012 09:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

welp

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hang in there, Hoos. Do you have insurance atm?

quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

sup

raw feel vegan (silby), Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

my temp job right now is enough busywork that i can lose myself in it throughout the day, but i come home so fried that all i want to do is sleep. then, inevitably, i can't--so i stare at the ceiling for hours instead, and that's when things get darker than i ought to let them.

doesn't help that the activist community i'm a part of, upon which i've relied for support emotional and otherwise through the last 7 months, is especially fractious of late (and that, even if they weren't, i'm too broke to ride the train to see them).

i owe the federal government several thousand dollars in taxes. not sure where i'll get the money. the nightmare that i'll have to move back to texas (into my fucking mother's house, without a vehicle or money) sometime this summer for lack of job opportunities is becoming increasingly real.

i recognize some of the contours of this darkness as merely chemical, and others as the product of undesirable circumstances; it's the combination of the two that's getting me down especially, and has my thoughts going unusually amiss. debt, solipsism, insomnia, fear, and alcoholism make for a helluva cocktail on top of my "legacy" brain chemistry concerns.

we'll see what comes of it.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think i'm covered under my dad's insurance until my birthday in august, q

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

alcohol is a depressant, of course

and i should know

mookieproof, Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

hoos we need to meet up for a coffee ASAP

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

ride it out, hoos...hopefully there'll be a change around the corner for you soon

virtual hugs are virtually useless I know but (hug)

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 4 May 2012 00:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Let me just say, HOOS, that I empathize deeply with some of the particulars of your situation. It sucks to be in the center of that cyclone (which I'm just starting to really inch my way out of), but the best you can do is put your head down and just push forward, one foot in front of the other, knowing that things can get better.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 00:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

my totally cliché advice: 1. baby steps and 2. focusing on things you can do atm that could make you feel better

sarahell, Friday, 4 May 2012 00:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^^

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 4 May 2012 00:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

last week i was seriously considering going to the beach by the port and just walking into the water and just ending all this bullshit.

a week later - some things still really hurt, but i'm more or less ok.

sarahell, Friday, 4 May 2012 00:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

please no one walk into the ocean

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 4 May 2012 00:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean, really realest talk, there've been some "well what if i just packed all my stuff and left appropriate instructional notes on my affairs to make it really easy for people" moments

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 4 May 2012 00:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was never convinced that the key bridge was high enough tbh

mookieproof, Friday, 4 May 2012 00:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I always wanted to go the Spalding Gray way, but with a twist: have my frozen corpse wash up on the edge of the East River and a group of homeless men would drag it out to their camp and use my body like the American Indians did with the buffalo. So that's sort-of like organ donation and charity wrapped into one.

Seriously, though, things get better no matter how shitty they seem now. I'm still dragging my ass out of the abyss, but things are definitely better now than a year ago with focused work. The only immediate relief I've ever found: regular exercise and meditation.

Spectrum, Friday, 4 May 2012 00:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

dudes, come visit boston soon -- also, fb message if you want to talk

markers, Friday, 4 May 2012 00:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

When I'm depressed, what works for me, as soon as I can find the mental energy to do it, is to do something physical that takes me somewhere. Like running or cycling. Then I come home, shower, pick up a few things in my room... and bam. It's a little better. Just the little bit I need to keep going until everything gets better.

elan, Friday, 4 May 2012 00:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hoos! I am only a random internet dude, BUT, if you ever want to have a depressive commiseration night, I'm only a webmail and an Acela ride (on my part) away.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Friday, 4 May 2012 01:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hoos, I'm sorry to hear you are feeling down. From what you wrote, it is obvious that there are elements of your current life and immediate prospects that are clearly undesirable -- and we both know that desire/undesire is the nexus of a great source of unhappiness.

Drinking may not be bad in itself, but it may be hindering your doing what you need to do atm.

Of all that you said, the fact that you are not easily able to connect with your friends and support network that is probably a large factor in your heaviness of heart. I'd recommend you put whatever effort you can into solving that one. Maybe they could come your direction. Y'know... if a Hoos can't go to the mountain, let the mountain come to a Hoos.

I wish you luck at unravelling these knots. Patience and effort go a long way. All the best.

Aimless, Friday, 4 May 2012 01:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

P.S. Talk to the feds. They may choose to sip your blood in small sips.

Aimless, Friday, 4 May 2012 01:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol that you said "talk to the feds" and my first reaction was "but i didn't do anything"

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 4 May 2012 04:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

thanks everyone for the ear and the good thoughts. they're appreciated. i'll figure this mess out.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 4 May 2012 04:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am in a rather MAD DARK period right now. Somehow I feel I will never shake this depression off. Ah well. C'est la vie (noire).

Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 4 May 2012 14:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

doesn't help that the activist community i'm a part of, upon which i've relied for support emotional and otherwise through the last 7 months, is especially fractious of late (and that, even if they weren't, i'm too broke to ride the train to see them).

Hey Hoos, another random Internetter here! From what I remember in the other OWS threads, you're DC, right? Before throwing in the towel and heading back to Tejas (or, god forbid, "getting your final affairs in order"), you should give OWS NYC a chance. We're fractured over here, too, but one of the nicest things about May Day seeing how many non-NYCers, after 7 months, have stuck around despite losing basically everything they had (shelter + food + diversion at Zuccotti), and I think that's more due to strong living/emotional support system more than anything. Still not sure if/when we'll find a new 24-hr space; but, if we do, and you're feeling risky, there's a ton of empathetic, committed protesters here who'd love to have a good person such as yourself in the mix!

Either way, if you have access to the meds you need, stay on top of that. Just know that, even if they don't talk about it, debt/taxes/shitty job are really common problems for normal people, and they're manageable with time/patience. Even if you feel like your personal life feels irrevocably fucked, I promise you that it's not. Good luck, Hoos!

Spertify (CompuPost), Friday, 4 May 2012 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

heading back to Tejas (or, god forbid, "getting your final affairs in order")

Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

pplains, Friday, 4 May 2012 15:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

hoos i can put about £12 towards yr taxes.

Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^ brilliant idea.

why not set up an account on PayPal, hoos? You have a deep well of goodwill here on ilx, and all that OWS work you did was unpaid. About time you were paid ten cents an hour for your activism.

Aimless, Friday, 4 May 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

it generally takes the IRS at least a year before they do stuff like impose liens and levies on your accounts. They will send letters. Lots of letters.

sarahell, Friday, 4 May 2012 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

wepay.com imo, fuck a paypal

also from what I have read on the Internet it is best to be proactive about explaining your predicaments to the IRS, it will help stop additional fines from piling up.

raw feel vegan (silby), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

giving hug to hoos and anyone else who needs one

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

To a small extent, the IRS can recognize the difference between unwillingness to pay and inability to pay.

Aimless, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

also from what I have read on the Internet it is best to be proactive about explaining your predicaments to the IRS, it will help stop additional fines from piling up.

not really, if you've filed on time and have a balance due and haven't paid it by the deadline, you will still have the same failure to file penalties and interest no matter what. If you contact the IRS, they will probably try to get you to set up an official payment plan with the IRS, but then you will be locked into that schedule and if you don't adhere to it --- more penalties and interest!

sarahell, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

er, that should be "failure to pay" penalties, not "failure to file", duh.

sarahell, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Awwww, see?! He's nice, really.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hoos - the visitors are still here so I may be tied up this weekend but you message me and/or call any time you need to. I will try to check in with you later tonight.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Awwww, see?! He's nice, really.

― wolf kabob (ENBB), Friday, May 4, 2012 4:06 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

dammit x-posts - that was about Morbius, not Hoos.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

what I'm trying to say is -- take care of your immediate needs first, and then when you have a job and extra money, then deal with the IRS.

sarahell, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

My dad has been dead for a while and even though he was sick, I miss him so much. I'm not getting a lot of sympathy, we did everything together! I am fighting with my mom (they were separated) and I got sick and didn't mow her lawn...my family is so mean! None of this is endogenous, so medications aren't helping. I beat myself up over not being able to get over dad.

โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Bulgarian Tourist Chamber (Mount Cleaners), Sunday, 6 May 2012 00:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's all right to take your time feeling this stuff. I didn't get along at all well with my dad, and his death was a much bigger blow than I ever expected it to be. It's going on two years now and I'm still pretty shaken about that (literally watching him die really didn't help matters). Not to mention the almost half a dozen other people I lost around the same time. I'm just starting to come around to feeling like life might actually be a thing worth putting some work into rather than waiting around for the inevitable. It was a long slog getting to this point, though. Be patient with yourself and give yourself time to grieve.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 6 May 2012 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

hey mount cleaners, i've found bereavement groups to be pretty helpful. also i don't know if 'getting over' is really a thing. i've been alive longer without my dad than i was with my dad, and it's still painful, and i often bristle at the idea that because it's been so long, i should be "over" the loss in some way. but bereavement groups have helped me to feel less alone (or even if you have a friend who has suffered a similar loss & would want to talk about it with them). depending on the nature of the loss you can probably start looking for groups in your area (eg, if it was cancer, you can get in touch with cancer clinics/resources, and they will probably be able to lead you in the right direction)

rayuela, Sunday, 6 May 2012 01:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

I actually went to those bereavement groups and I don't want to criticize them, but inevitably everyone there has worse problems than you, like mothers who lost children, and you feel like a whiner for losing an elderly parent. I don't feel this way though: it shouldn't matter how old or sick the deceased is. Maybe I'll try again.

But I do feel guilty about discussing losing a sick dad around people who, like, lost a son in a car crash or some similar untimely tragedy.

โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Bulgarian Tourist Chamber (Mount Cleaners), Sunday, 6 May 2012 01:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thats true--depending on where you are, you may be able to find one specifically for those who have lost a parent, which is the kind I have been to. Several in the group have tried more generalized groups but have come to prefer the more specific grps...

rayuela, Sunday, 6 May 2012 02:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh and of course such groups can only do so much, but I've found them helpful. Everyone has different ways of processing grief so it just may not be the thing for you. The advice above allowing yourself to grieve is good and also not caving to social pressure to be okay with it when you are not. Advice I wish I had gotten is that it's not your responsibly to make people feel more comfortable w your grief and that your grief is totally legitimate. Just my unsolicited advice...

rayuela, Sunday, 6 May 2012 02:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm frustrated because my church has a drug / alcohol group, as if everyone who has problems is an alcoholic.

โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Bulgarian Tourist Chamber (Mount Cleaners), Monday, 7 May 2012 07:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, fuck. I'm concerned that I'm really heading towards a major depression right now and its super frustrating because a) I am in therapy and at least talking to someone about it, but b) it feels like I'm sliding into it no matter how hard I try to reverse course or work through things I've learned are helpful for me. Also c) objectively, there is no reason I should be depressed, I mean, there are no major traumas in my life and right now I've got this wonderful little boy that I am thrilled to spend time with.

But I also fear that my joy being around my son is sort of amplifying the other areas in my life that are sort of dragging me down. And, although I'm in therapy, I literally have no one else to talk about these things with - y'know, not even like a work friend to shoot the shit with or anyone to reach out to during that long week between therapy sessions. Its super frustrating because I don't want to feel this way at all, but every morning I wake up more sad than the previous. Fuck.

/emo

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 13:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, man, isolation is a quick route to depressionville. I'd advise maybe finding someplace where parents and kids can mingle? I'm not sure what that would be, though, as I've never had to seek anything like that out.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I don't know, my hardest times seem to be the work week between times I get to do things like that. I think it mainly comes down to the fact that I really don't have anyone at work that I can talk about non-work things with (I spend all my lunch hours eating by myself) and with no friends I'm in regular, close contact with - my options to kind of get some of this stuff off my chest are limited.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if you're a single parent, but the Chicago Single Parents Network sounds like something that might suit your needs?

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that's pretty much why I've decided that I'm probably not gonna do another office job. Even if I have to take a pay cut, I've realized it's important to me that I work in a more social environment where it's almost a challenge to be isolated.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

hiding in the house with the phones unplugged :(

Vermicious Knid A (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Definitely not a single parent, sorry, didn't mean to leave that impression. Its just that our schedules right now aren't allowing my wife and I to spend much time together.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also c) objectively, there is no reason I should be depressed, I mean, there are no major traumas in my life and right now I've got this wonderful little boy that I am thrilled to spend time with.

Keep in mind that you could be on top of the fuckin' world and still be depressed if your brain isn't allowing it. You wouldn't hear a guy with one leg say, "I shouldn't be hopping around like this when I've got this great car."

pplains, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, maybe you would, but perhaps you get my drift.

pplains, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

No, I totally get that, its just a frustrating feeling.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

And I think men are also just as capable of getting post-natal depression as well. I don't know if it's an upending of the scales, experiencing all this joy with a new kid and then standing at a four-lane intersection 12 hours later, wondering why it's even worth crossing the road.

pplains, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Definitely not a single parent, sorry, didn't mean to leave that impression.

Even so, I assure you that there are lots of parents who feel the same drag you're feeling, and I'm certain that there are groups and gatherings and clubs and organizations of people who get together to alleviate that drag.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Isolation is the worst. I used to think I was on top of the world -- working from home, setting my own schedule. Now I'm just under house arrest.

improvised explosive advice (WmC), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my current situation is a result of a few things:

1) Career frustration, feeling stuck in a rut and wanting to make a change, but running into lots of dead ends and roadblocks.
2) Feeling like I don't have any friends that aren't really just my wife's friends and spouses.
3) Just a general feeling of lack of what I want to do with my life.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost

Yeah, I've definitely come to that same conclusion. I was on track for a while towards becoming self-employed and working from home, but now that seems like a somewhat nightmarish situation in the long term.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Maybe a four-day work week would be something ideal for all of us.

pplains, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 14:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

that seems like a somewhat nightmarish situation in the long term.

11 years and counting ;_;

improvised explosive advice (WmC), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Maybe it's time to start handing out pink slips.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

When I got my pre-checkup call yesterday for my physical next week, one of the questions they asked was if I felt incapacitated by depression zero, once, a few days or the majority of the last two weeks. Which I thought was too small a window for that, and I told them zero because I'm off cycle.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 15:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

After years of working, I'm still having trouble processing the fact of working life properly. Initial excitement of a new job just wore off, and I became suddenly aware that the doldrums were coming back... Monday through Friday, 8-6 spent working. The majority of my life, working, with tiny impermanent moments of pleasure and frustration woven in between... all leading to one thing: death. Just crashed. These sudden realizations are totally bogus.

Spectrum, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

in large part that's what's kicking me in the head right now, coupled with a sense of doing this shit alone for the rest of my life, coupled with nobody to tell me to stop fucking drinking

Vermicious Knid A (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Stop fucking drinking.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also take a shower and eat something.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 16:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

will try :\

Vermicious Knid A (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

It won't make you not depressed but at least you won't smell or be hungry.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

1) Career frustration, feeling stuck in a rut and wanting to make a change, but running into lots of dead ends and roadblocks.
2) Feeling like I don't have any friends that aren't really just my wife's friends and spouses.
3) Just a general feeling of lack of what I want to do with my life

1) iirc edison always said his lightbulb was the result of ten thousand failures and one success

2) is that really such a bad thing? are they really *just* your wife's friends? you think if you got divorced you'd be friendless

3) it's certainly a tough question and it's okay to feel this way. i think a lot of people feel this way, to be honest.

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

vahid is seriously a tough call.... he can be like the smartest most hilarious dude in the world for a week and then the next week hes like every worst quality of ilx thrown into one butthurt dude

― and what, Wednesday, April 2, 2008 11:27 PM (4 years ago)

so i mentioned this on another thread, went to see a new psychiatrist recently to talk about my trouble sleeping, how i'll sleep all day on saturday and stay up all night sunday, how sometimes i'll feel amazing and sometimes i'll kinda crash and just cry all day and how between these periods there are these brief intense interludes where i'll do something really stupid (like overindulge in ... things) or really intense (like a shit ton of work or chores or exercise or a huge fight with a loved one etc)

she said "o you might be bipolar" and started giving me lamictal and ambien for when i'm buzzing and now i feel at least 50% better though nowhere near where i'd like to be

but yeah, sometimes you need to get a second opinion to snap things into sudden focus.

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

The grass is always greener. ALWAYS. Last week around my birthday I was pretty down and whenever I talked w someone who has something that im missing (a wife, a house, a full-time job, etc) they were always saying 'Man, i wish i had the freedom you have!'. Eventually someone asked me 'What's up? Why you feel shitty?' and I slowly listed some reasons but every time i did it felt like a cop out, like it's just some standard life BS that millions of people are dealing with, or even that millions of people probably WISH they were dealing with.

There are plenty of environmental factors that go in to making you depressed, but i think in the end of it all, it's 100% up to you to snap out of it. Kinda like quitting smoking.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I was stuck in feeling #2 for a long time, Jon...but the thing I wasn't looking at is that these are people who, despite alreeady being friends with my husband, treated me as a friend too without me making any effort towards them at all.

I resented the hell out of them for not being my 'real' friends but eventually you come to realize that friends are friends, that company is good, and that if they are good, fun people then who cares how they came to be your friend.

you know? it's just a way of beating yourself to make you feel lonelier than you are, and just cast you adrift even more. I did it a lot, way too much, and much as your inclination fights against you, this is a time when you need friends. don't judge yourself too harshly on this one. yknow, like that dorky religious joke/morality story about the dude in the flood who waits around for god to save him, and he refuses the lifeboat and refuses the helicopter saying god will save him and then when he eventually drowns he asks God 'why didn't you save me?" and God says well I sent the lifeboat and the helicopter...

you know? don't look a gift horse in the mouth. ugh now I sound preachy but I can say from personal experience that no matter how true it *feels* in your head that you should have your own friends, any friends are good friends to have.

hang in there, jon.

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

not sure "snapping out of it" is necessarily a realistic expectation, but i agree that you have the 100% of the necessary ability to address your depression

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, I mean I do consider them "friends" in that I usually have a decent time talking to them when we get together in a group situation, but, otoh, not one of those people would reach out to me individually in any sort of way outside of that group dynamic, you know? And, when I have reached out to them, to get together for a beer or whatever, they come up with a reason not to do so. Which is why I find it hard to really consider them "friends", if that makes sense.

Like, yes, I'm fortunate to have them, but I also think its important for people to have friends that exist outside of, and separate from, that group dynamic of being a couple. I really don't have those anymore.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

why not?

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Let's see, of the really good, close friends I had emerging from college and the years after - one moved to Atlanta and I never really get to see him, I had a falling out with another when she married a convicted child molestor (not kidding), another got married and pretty much went MIA, and the others just kinda drifted off into families and job stuff and we don't see each other anymore.

Like, I'm not afraid to admit that there are times when I may have not been the best at keeping up with people, that was a big fault of mine 3-4 years ago that I've tried to address and improve on.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

ok so how come you can't make new friends?

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dude, you're blessed. Wife, some wife's friends, people on an internet message board who give a crap. You're alive, relatively young, in a halfway decent country. Why not focus on the positives? As trite as that is, I think it helps. I mean lord, you're living like a g-damned king compared to me.

Spectrum, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

One thing I constantly struggle with is that, in my better moments, I think I'm a generally decent guy and pretty easy to get along with. And I have no problem meeting new people and having really good, engaging conversations with people I enjoy being around and would like to spend time with. But, for whatever reason, I'm just never able to launch those interactions into anything more. If that makes sense. I'll reach back out to people I meet and try to set up something, but they always fizzle out. Which, fair, things happen. But its frustrating.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

To use a more specific example, one of my wife's friends started dating a new guy and we really clicked at a wedding when we were first introduced. We had similar backgrounds, similar tastes in music, and ended up hanging out a lot that weekend, talking for hours. Since then I've invited him out to get some drinks, to go to shows, baseball games, etc but it never pans out. In the two and a half years since we met (he's still dating my wife's friend), we've hung out one-on-one twice. Its a solid example of someone that I would like to consider a good friend and would really like to hang out with more, but its clear he's not really feeling the same way.

All emo and shit, but this is the situation I keep running into.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have no idea how people make friends after college. I understand everything you're talking about, jon.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

You have to make friends by being a friend imo. Start conversations, share stuff, stick your neck out a little.

former personal denim advisor to the mayor, (La Lechera), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

It takes some practice, but it works and sometimes it's even easy. Rarely, but it happens.

former personal denim advisor to the mayor, (La Lechera), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

But anyway, I identify with the feeling of nothing is wrong/everything is wrong. It usually passes, that's about all I have to offer with that one.

Being outside for a while every day helps for me, but ymmv.

former personal denim advisor to the mayor, (La Lechera), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

There are plenty of environmental factors that go in to making you depressed, but i think in the end of it all, it's 100% up to you to snap out of it.

This week I'm making the supreme effort of suppressing negative thinking, something that has been dragging me to the worst depths.

fit and working again, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I probably talk to you all more than IRL friends.

I don't have to meet at a noisy bar to visit with you. I can talk to you while I work. If we're in the middle of a conversation and I have to take a call, it's not at all rude for me to drop out for 20 minutes or two weeks. We never have to have that "So, man. What have you been up to?" conversation.

I dig my IRL friends. They're good people. Sunny thinks I'm just a social butterfly because I go out every six months and play poker or watch the Super Bowl. But what I do when I do go out like that is look at the clock and wonder how much time has gone by before I can get back to the house to see my wife and kids. I spent a good 15 years of my life doing nothing shit, and while it was extraordinarily fun, I don't miss a second of it.

It's funny. There are a couple of ILXors on here that live just around the corner from us, but they have never met 5-year-old Beeps in person. And they might be mine and Sunny's closest mutual friends. I don't know what my point is, except maybe to say friends aren't the be-all, end-all solution to loneliness. If anything, to be brutally honest, I felt more alone at times when I was surrounded by my friends.

pplains, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have no idea how people make friends after college.

This to an extent, but to an even greater extent, I have no idea how people keep friends after college. I've retained a small and steadfast few, but the majority of friends (even ones I've been very close to and thought would be around forever) have sloughed off of my life altogether. It's a bummer.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ Yeah both the quote and Deic's new post are 100% otm.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

otm Making new friends is cool, but i feel like they always kind of fall off the map and the old friends who stick around are the only ones that really matter.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

I kinda feel like women are much better at putting in the work to maintain long-term friendships than men are.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Unless you are heavily, deeply involved in some kind of social scene. That really seems like the only way to make new friends. Over the past few years there are a bunch of people I genuinely liked that I really wanted to be friends with, but I've sort of detached from whatever scenes they were involved in and they just don't have the time to pursue anything outside of those clicks.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

If I'm not really deeply involved in that scene and it's a primary driving force behind people forming new friendships, then I'd just rather hang out, do my thing, and let things happen naturally, if they ever do.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I kinda feel like women are much better at putting in the work to maintain long-term friendships than men are.

That's kind of a lazy generalization. Some people are easily convinced to take this kind of risk w/r/t making friends, and some people aren't. Some people have public personas that show up well in typical social environments, some people's talents lie in one-on-one conversation or quieter venues, or by works of service or whatever. Whether these people are men or women is p much entirely up to chance and some environmental pressures, but it's not like women have some kind of "making friends" stripe on the second X chromosome.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

it def takes a lot more work to make friends after school / college but it is possible.

it is also true in a broad psychological sense that adolescence is a time of trying new things and expanding your horizons and middle age is a time of hunkering down and focusing on a few things that really matter

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also if it's about "putting in work" then all you need to do is DO THE WORK. There is no better or worse, there is only you did or you didn't.

Different friendships have different baselines, this seems kind of self-evident? There's always that person you can call after 6mos and they sound exactly the same and so do you and that can be great, that can reassure you that someone knows you the way you really are and can be an anchor for your concept of self, where you came from, whatever. But there's going to be some kind of minimum level of involvement for every friendship, and they will return friendship benefits at different levels, too.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i guess that's a way of saying its okay and natural to not want to live in a beer commercial and on a brain science level prob foolish to try since we are much more critical and discerning about relationships as we get older

i've def become much less concerned with having a big circle of friends and more w reconnecting with old friends and nurturing / deepening those long term friendships

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

if you have social opportunities at work you should grin and bear it and take them, usually you'll find a piece of wheat or two among the chaff

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

i tend not to take that advice myself

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

jon - have you discussed this with your wife? what's her take on it, like, she might have some insight into your(her) friends. It just seems weird to me that you have a "best friend" and you feel friendless.

sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Okay, I new someone was going to rightly call me on my generalization upthread, but it was drawn on my experiences watching my wife and her college friends work really hard to plan their annual gatherings (which they've been doing for 12 years now), its impressive and I know none of my male friends have that kind of stick-to-itness when it comes to social events.

I have talked with my wife about this a lot and we both come from a place where we feel like its really important to have a good friend outside the relationship. One, it gives you an outlet that can be distinct and separate from your family life, which can make for a nice break during the hectic day-in day-out. Two, its nice to have an option when your partner is out with friends so you can also go be with someone without sitting home like a lump. Three, although minor, its nice to just have someone to blow off steam about your partner's minor annoyances.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have talked with my wife about this a lot and we both come from a place where we feel like its really important to have a good friend outside the relationship. One, it gives you an outlet that can be distinct and separate from your family life, which can make for a nice break during the hectic day-in day-out. Two, its nice to have an option when your partner is out with friends so you can also go be with someone without sitting home like a lump. Three, although minor, its nice to just have someone to blow off steam about your partner's minor annoyances.

Good, I'm glad! I was a bit worried.

sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I didn't mean to gloss over my relationship with my wife at all. I'm just talking about having friends outside of that dynamic. I'm super thankful for her and the time we spend, it just bums me out that I don't have someone outside of that. For example, a few months before my son was born, she had a girl's weekend with friends. Despite many emails and phonecalls trying to set stuff up with people, I ended up spending the whole weekend putzing around by myself. It'd be nice to have someone to spend time with in those moments.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't imagine sitting down with another person to talk about my wife! that'd feel like a weird betrayal to me.

And in general, god it's hard being an adult isn't it?

Is there anyone here who doesn't feel like life is mainly a disappointed and weary sisyphean trudge punctuated occasionally and thankfully by ephemeral scenes of hygge with children, love, music and beer?

thomasintrouble, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

My special friend's name is Cynthia. We get along so great that sometimes, we hardly talk about my wife at all.

pplains, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost

life isn't like that for dan majerle

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't imagine sitting down with another person to talk about my wife! that'd feel like a weird betrayal to me.

I guess it depends on what you are saying, but I don't think talking about your relationship with another person needs to be that weird or some sort of betrayal. I'm thinking things like, "man, my wife and I got in a pointless argument last night, here's what happened, do you think I was being the ass?".

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've had good years and bad years. It's definitely hard being an adult, but having known sustained happiness at one point in my adult life (which, for the first 26 years of my life I never would have imagined possible) I believe I can get there again.

xxxp

hot slag (lukas), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyway, i don't mean to make light of this thread because i go through my ups and downs for sure. i sympathize with what jon is saying. one of the lowest moments of my life was when my fiance dumped me, and besides the obvious, part of it was that when i left the room and just needed to talk to someone, there wasn't a best friend for me to call. there was no one, only the realization that all my friends were pretty much her friends. and even though they were all kind to me and i thought of them as my friends...anyway, you can guess the rest.

it's really fucking hard to make good friends.

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha, no, that gif is always appreciated.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm having serious problems these days and this thread is v helpful; y'all are lovely, kind, and good people.

windjammer voyage (blank), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

And in general, god it's hard being an adult isn't it?

yes. yes. yes.

it f*cking is hard work.

currently, i'm surrounded by

every day demands of my wonderful, life enhancing, but still emotionally and physically exhausting offspring.

every day demands of a soul sucking job.

every day demands of your bills.

every day demands of ...

etc etc.

then your wife dies, and you realise all such concerns are mere buttons in comparison in dealing with all the above on your own, and having no-one to share that bottle of wine to wind down with.

summary : adult life sux.

mark e, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

then your wife dies, and you realise all such concerns are mere buttons in comparison in dealing with all the above on your own, and having no-one to share that bottle of wine to wind down with.

This is the kind of thing that makes me get so upset with myself for being depressed over seemingly trivial things.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't think it's worthwhile to beat yourself up over the proximate causes of your depression feeling 'trivial'? for one thing that leads to a vicious cycle; for another, well, it's true, life could always be worse, but the life you need to make more livable is the one you're currently experiencing, not any other hypothetical one.

dethklok piccalo (c sharp major), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

seriously jon/vai etc. that was never my intention, and i'm genuinely sorry to have added to your troubles.

i have never subscribed to the pissing up a wall contest, and the post was never meant as such.

it was meant as an underline to the point that after years of wanting so called "adult life", the reality is that the f*cking thing sux.

mark e, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 23:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

c sharp otm - gotta take the good with the bad, in the endless chain of being there's always someone better off and someone worse off

the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

seriously jon/vai etc. that was never my intention, and i'm genuinely sorry to have added to your troubles.

No no, you didn't add to my troubles in the least! It was one of those kicks in the ass that remind me that I need a little perspective from time to time.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 03:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

kind of having some issues

i know some things that might help, but can't seem to manage them

not really sanguine about the whole thing

mookieproof, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

manage?

the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think he just means accomplish, in a basic way? yknow. manage.

I'm sorry yr having a hard time, mp

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry, i was obtusely asking what it was you were having trouble managing

the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

mookie keep posting here, I think that is a step toward managing imho

quincie, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^^

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

you know something that struck me about jon via chi's story is that i realized that a lot of my friends maybe have the same experience w/ me. like i am making friends with record store dudes all the damn time, probably because i spend all my damn time in record stores and i kinda have that record store dude personality (shocker). and those dudes, they like call me once and if i flake they never call me back. and actually a lot of my friends do this too, as well as a lot of people i connect to. and now i'm 35, and of my tight circle of five bros from HS four of them are on antidepressants and one of them is still totally mentally ill and living an unhealthy lifestyle.

i guess this is a really trite sort of "birds of a feather" story, but you never know if that person on the other end who isn't making that effort with you is doing it because they think you're an anxious depressed loser or because they think they're an anxious depressed loser! and so you might need to make an extra effort to reach out to this person because they might be in the same boat as you, and in fact if you "click" on the level of personality and you're a depressive person then there's probably lots of reasons to think you could relate on that level too.

the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

No faster way to make friends than to commiserate about depression ime.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

mookie keep posting here, I think that is a step toward managing imho

― quincie, Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^

― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

PAGING

game of crones (La Lechera), Thursday, 17 May 2012 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes <3

obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

paging one (1) Mr Mookie Proof

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mr Proof step to the white courtesy phone

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

"we're not depressed. We're on strike."

^^^ Dunno if this does anything for anybody else, but it gave me something.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 May 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think there's validity to that. i mean, i guess it's unfashionable to be into laing (r.d., mot kd) these days, and granted, the way he lead his life was not precisely exemplary, but the idea that if one has trouble adjusting to a cultural/political environment that is super-fucked up then it should come as no surprise i think merits discussion

i mean the people that i most admire have seem to have managed to live outside in a way... like they don't even reference or particularly participate in the cultural touchstones that i guess are a given for most of us. which i think is an exceedingly healthy strategy. like if you can go deep enough inside yourself that you don't just reject those pernicious models in a theoretical way, but in very direct moment-to-moment fashion. i mean, in my experience we live in a world that would define everything for us, and i think it's important to step in and re-define things for ourselves. to live your life fully and properly as it was. because I think that a lot of what manifests as garden-variety mental health woes can be traced back to accepting others' definitions of what life should be for us, instead of engaging with those ideas on our own terms.

dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

as it was

supposed to read "as it were". can this board get a "preview" function? or at least give the "add a post" section a more pleasing typeface??

dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

This is the kind of thing that makes me get so upset with myself for being depressed over seemingly trivial things.

It was years (years!) before it dawned on me that depression is not a competition. Still difficult for me to process (along with allowing myself to be happy which is even more difficult)

Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

hi

mookieproof, Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

hey bro

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

sup

game of crones (La Lechera), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

hey guys <3 u all for real.

69, Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh hai mp

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

xxxposts hey how is a Hoos doing lately?

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

It was years (years!) before it dawned on me that depression is not a competition. Still difficult for me to process (along with allowing myself to be happy which is even more difficult)

Yeah, both pain and the ability to cope with pain are subjective and context-dependent. It's a valuable thing to recognize and sympathize with the intensity of others' pain, but there's no percentage in beating yourself up because you feel that your pain is somehow out of proportion with the source of your pain. Because we have no real way of knowing how profoundly others are hurting in relation to ourselves or how easily they cope with their own personal burden. All you can do is be empathetic but also deal with your pain as if it's a concern completely separate from what others are going through.

Still learning how to do this myself, btw.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

I find it comforting to remember that emotions are chemical and physical states; it doesn't really matter what put you there, your feelings are real. If you feel like crap, you feel like crap. The important thing, imo, isn't the scale or perceived validity of your problems, it's what you're able to do to change your state of mind. Even that doesn't correlate to any kind of issue-seriosity scale afaict.

Also unknown as Zora (Surfing At Work), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i think there is extreme pressure on people to be happy and successful. whatever that means.

which is kind of a weird thing to build a culture around, but i guess makes sense in a hyper-capitalistic mode of red or black

but i think statistics show that relationships are paramount in life. so for instance nigeria places above "happy" polls over the western industrialized usual suspects

dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

"above in"

dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

I want to preface this by saying that I am not suicidal, so don't worry. Don't call anyone, don't be concerned. I'm going to work in the morning, I promise. If for no other reason, I have a mother who I know cares about me so much that to take my own life would be to destroy hers. I won't do that.

Having said that:

I believe strongly that I really have ruined what chance at a life I had. I've had so many friends. Amazing friends, sweet people, hilarious people, genuinely good people. And there isn't a single one of them I can talk to tonight. It's not all in my head; I have rejected them, avoided them, and hid from them so many times that even the ones I have reached out to directly won't talk to me anymore.

I am the bad guy in this story. I didn't mean to be, but I am. I have done awful things. I have responded to the lowest lows in my closest friends' lives with silence because I was afraid of awkwardness. I have driven away the people who have loved me. I have fucked up beyond redemption.

Starting over isn't a real thing. Grace, in the absence of religious belief, isn't a real thing. I have to live with what I've done and haven't done.

I'm so fucking sad. I'm so lonely. And I deserve it. I went to school for an idiotic, narcissistic profession, one in which I have no natural skill and one for which I have no remaining passion. I'm so self-involved that I don't know how to cultivate relationships as an adult. I loathe the city in which I live. I have no friends. I have no one left except for my family, and every day my guilt about having chosen a career where it's impossible for me to make a living wage and live within a thousand miles of my aging grandparents eats away at me. I know that every day spent here, away from them, I will regret until I die. They raised me, and took care of me, and spent their whole lives making sure that I had everything I could want, and I can't even be close to them in their old age. I want to go home, but there's no way for me to do so and support myself. I can't even imagine figuring out a way to eek out an okay life for me, much less dream of creating my own family.

I'm so sorry. I can't express how sorry I am. I did everything wrong. I guess I'm just throwing this out to the world: I'm so, so, so sorry. God damn it I am nothing but contrite for my mistakes and I pray to whatever isn't out there to forgive me. I'm sorry.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Friday, 25 May 2012 03:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

no, you don't start over, you continue. you try not to make the same mistakes that fill you with self-loathing. you end up making some of them again, but maybe fewer, maybe less severely. you focus on doing more things you are proud of, fewer wrong things.

sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 03:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

I forgive you. But it's most important for you to work on forgiving yourself. Like sarahell says, there's only forwards. One foot in front of the other, and try not to make the same mistakes again. Forgive yourself, and keep going.

<3

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 25 May 2012 03:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

well

a) stop upstaging me
b) you're not a very convincing bad guy -- silence is maybe not helpful but nor is it evil
c) it's hard to make friends as an adult, i think, but it's also hard to lose them -- those ppl you've been through shit with will understand
d) you don't have to be with your grandparents all the time as long as they know you are thinking about them and loving them

mookieproof, Friday, 25 May 2012 03:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

are you . . . in nyc now? because there are drinks to be had

mookieproof, Friday, 25 May 2012 04:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have responded to the lowest lows in my closest friends' lives with silence because I was afraid of awkwardness. I have driven away the people who have loved me.

hey, i've done this thing! repeatedly. but it's not irreversible in the way it can feel, fwiw. if there's anyone in particular you want to reach out to/apologize to/reconnect with, try it.

i am also really familiar with the feeling of having done everything wrong, but the thing is, it's never over. i don't even mean that in a particularly comforting way, i just mean it literally: no matter how badly you think you've fucked up, you still have to wake up the next morning. like sarahell said, you change a few things that are within your power to change and you keep going. circumstances change, and also, just doing a few things that seem doable can make you feel a lot more hopeful. living with what you've done, as you put it, is easier than anticipating living with what you've done.

forgiving yourself all at once can be hard, but it seems to me that you're taking a lot more on as your fault than could possibly realistically be your fault. i hope that helps.

horseshoe, Friday, 25 May 2012 05:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have responded to the lowest lows in my closest friends' lives with silence because I was afraid of awkwardness. I have driven away the people who have loved me.

i have also done this thing, repeatedly. and i've also felt awful about it, but when i think back about those moments where i should have been more supportive, i remember that it was much more complicated than simply seeing a friend in pain and choosing not to be there for them. there were other feelings, many of them self loathing, like "he really needs someone there, but i'm not a good enough friend to be that person. i would probably end up making him feeling worse." i'm guessing that maybe it was similar for you. also, remember that lots and lots of people respond the same way (by withdrawing) to the pain of others. it's not a good thing, but it's common.

if there's anyone in particular you want to reach out to/apologize to/reconnect with, try it.

horseshoe otm. you don't need to stage a reverse intervention where you gather all of your past friends into one room and beg for forgiveness or something. but you could think about calling up an old friend that you haven't talked to in forever and just asking how they're doing, and if they live really far away (all of my old friends do), at least say that you'd like to get out there sometime and give see them sometime soon. stuff like that goes a long way.

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Friday, 25 May 2012 13:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyway, i don't know you all that well nick (i don't know anyone here that well), but there are too many people i know that have the best of intentions and feel so guilty and sad all of the time, and it kills me. there are so many people that truly are assholes - let them be sad and guilty, you deserve better.

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Friday, 25 May 2012 13:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have responded to the lowest lows in my closest friends' lives with silence because I was afraid of awkwardness. I have driven away the people who have loved me.

i have also done this thing, repeatedly.

Same. It's something I've been feeling increasingly shitty about lately. I've resolved to call at least two of these people this weekend so that I'm at least making an effort. I don't know if it'll work but surely it's worth a shot, right? Maybe you could do similar like everyone else has suggested. Hang in there, N.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Friday, 25 May 2012 13:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thanks everyone, I appreciate it. I should probably stop getting drunk for awhile, I seem to go down that hole every time I do nowadays.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Sunday, 27 May 2012 01:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if this will be at all helpful, but I've been on the receiving end of this recently. I have a number of friends who kind of shockingly retreated when I was going through a lot of rough shit (and, thankfully, a handful who have been my rocks). When I got to the other side of that stuff, though, I regained the perspective to remember that I'd been that guy myself in the past and that I retreated out of awkwardness and not because, y'know, "Fuck that sad sack". What I'm trying to say is that I'm not mad at those people who weren't around and I'd like to see/hear from them again. I can't say everyone in my position is gonna feel the same, but I think it's fair to assume that you haven't really alienated as many people as you may think you have. And some people may really miss you and want you back in their lives. Part of the problem is that you're trying to assess what's going on in other people's heads, which is a doomed pursuit under the best of circumstances but doubly so when you're not in the best frame of mind yourself.

Quiet Desperation, LLC (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 27 May 2012 03:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

saying much about things in my life at this point feels wholly silly. I feel like it's been a spiraling cliche of dead and dying loved ones, drugs, casual self harm; physical or otherwise, growing poverty, the growing inability to communicate or connect with people on anything slightly resembling a meaningful level, etc etc for years now. money is the worst substance on earth. if you're not white and not rich you're not going to school so you're not getting a job. even if I were to somehow get a job, I have no interest in perpetuating and playing into the grossly flawed systems that are in place; of course that's the only way one gets to eat in 20XX. independent media affirmed in me long ago that the world beyond myself isn't getting any better. suicide isn't a viable option either. problems abound.

oops~

nohighs, Monday, 28 May 2012 02:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

feel better nick

the late great, Monday, 28 May 2012 02:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

what a kind owl

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 01:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

not sure the kind cartoon owl is qualified to give people advice about medication tho

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 01:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's great!

goole, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 01:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

you guys are swell

alpha farticles, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 01:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like the list:

I should print that and stick it on the fridge.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 01:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like that a lot

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 01:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

numbers one and three there partic otm in my experience

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 01:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I feel like apologizing to someone every day helps too but tbh that's because I fuck up a lot.

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Heh I always get told to STOP apologising for everything by my housemate :)

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ugh. Sorry guys, but that tumblr's advice is horrible. Putting a nicely drawn owl on it doesn't make it any better.

emil.y, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anon, I don’t know if you’ve ever considered whether or not you may be asexual, or if you’re even comfortable considering that label for yourself, but either way, I would encourage you to look up one of the many asexual communities online! At the very least, it should be a comfort to spend time with people who will never tell you that you need to be in a romantic or sexual relationship in order to be healthy and happy!

jumping to a lot of conclusions here, asexuowl

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry this was the question

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cool list, partic the owl. Damn, looks like the owl was already made light of. Anyway, hardest one for me was the last, kindness from others didn't exist in my brain so it could never be recognized. Totally mindblowing finding out it was something real ... breaking out of depression is like reality totally morphing and changing one grand realization at a time (or really, just seeing the truth more clearly).

Spectrum, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

heh, yeah, no offense but put me on Team Fuckyouowl.

pplains, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

what's the difference between being depressed and suffering from existential crisis?

***

life wouldn't be so difficult to handle or survive or work with if i (or we, rather) lived in a healthier global culture and society.

like, is all this war and murder and starvation and pollution and trauma endemic to the human species, or did we go terribly wrong somewhere along the way? i have a hard time believing we evolved to become such a destructive, hateful species. we are capable of so much more.

i don't know. i don't think i'm depressed so much as traumatized by our unhealthy culture.

alpha farticles, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 02:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

ws asexuowl

ninguna informacion para la DEA (Eric H.), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

ARGH

Ok, so I have been half-turned-down for a promotion, despite being recommended by the previous occupant of the job and the next highest up at the place because I didn't answer one or two v. vague questions to the woman actually interviewing me, and now will have to be re-interviewed with it.

And everything seems to have broken with none of it being my fault. To fix my laptop will cost... about the same as a new laptop. TY screen for exploding one morning. My bike is fucked too.

Oh and my best friends/only fucking friends around here are moving to Bristol. Fucking ay.

I think I'd be cool but all this shit happened within the same week. I just can't seem to catch a fucking break. I'm getting drunk and listening to Slick Rick loudly. It's not like i've got shit else to do.

Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

what it feels like for me

-- most everything in my life has been a colossal failure (marriage, career)

-- the things other people point out to cheer me up are barely-disguised colossal failures (grad school)

-- the few things i have been successful are small and fleeting and besides i have failed to capitalize on these things (learned how to DJ at age 35, state fair 1st place in architectural drawing)

-- things are not going to get better. if anything they have only been getting worse and worse and judging from the state of my grandparent's generation they are going to get really bad before i die of natural causes, if i die of natural causes.

-- my goals in life have basically shrunk down to appearing stable enough that i don't ruin my parent's impending retirement and twilight of life by having them worry about what will happen to me after they die. then when they die, i can go ahead and die with a clean conscience.

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

something i have realized is that aside from my family, all of my friends are either a) literally clinically mentally ill or b) indigent

this tells me something negative about my person which i can't really put into words

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

i often think my dog is disappointed with me or angry with me.

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

my meds seem to be having an effect. what that means for now is i still recognise all the ways i've fucked up, and all the things that are not good about my life and may not ever improve, but i suddenly seem to have just enough resources to deal with them and sometimes even look other people in the eye and be honest with them. i know i've seen this feeling appear before and i've let it slide away or done things to wreck it, but just observing that pills seem to make me feel even a little bit less flat is enough to remind me that the worst times are not all i am.

i dunno what to say late great, i'm not in your head so i can't know how you feel. but i'm sure your worst times are far from being the sum total of who you are, too.

Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

same goes for all my fellow travellers on this thread. keep hanging in there.

Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hey, that's good news, relatively speaking, NV. I'm glad to see it.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

glad to see you are doing better nv.

Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

late great, nv, might I suggest seeking advice from a talking owl? Or maybe, you should think of taking up a hobby.

pplains, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

all my hobbies are so antisocial :\

have been trying to think of social activities that don't involve either a) booze, or b) people i'd want to kill unless i was full of booze

Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

target practice lol

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

good work NV - i guess the thing from here is to use this feeling and not to let it go. the letting it slide thing is easy to let happen

coal, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

resources - this is a great word

coal, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

hoy hoy, late great, nv...you are all a+ dudes in my world. there's benefit from just putting one foot in front of the other, even if it doesn't always feel that way.

hugs xoxo

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

hobbies don't have to be social imo! there can come a serenity from antisocial hobbies too, tinkering about with synths or wandering around with a camera can bring a serenity

coal, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

didnt mean to say serenity twice and i also meant to put antisocial in inverted commas

coal, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

painting/doodling/writing too

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

well anything - i just mean that alone time can also be really valuable

coal, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

My hobby advice came straight from the cartoon owl.

He thinks it only takes three licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop, so don't listen to him.

pplains, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha oh i didnt know anything about any owls

coal, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

so here's the thing

-- i've been seeing therapists for 14 years. one for 12 years, one for one year during grad school, the most recent for about a year. they have all been excellent. i know all about cognitive behavioral therapy and CBT.

-- i've been taking SSRIs for 14 years, and mood stabilizers for about 4. big doses. my doses nowadays are bigger than ever.

-- i have hobbies, all sorts. creative things like music, outdoorsy things like camping and cycling, fulfilling things like gardening and community service, snuggly things like a doggy.

-- i have a very very supportive family and several - not many - very close and supportive friends that i've had for a long long time.

the thing is i rarely feel any pleasure and i haven't for a long time. i am always focused on the negatives. if something goes well, i only think about the parts that went wrong. if nothing went wrong, i think about all the other times something went wrong and criticize myself for not doing it perfectly every time. my therapist tells me i've coped with criticism by internalizing the criticism, predicting it, and beating my critics to the punch. now i'm too good at criticizing myself and can't stop. it is great to know this, but i want to stop.

i want to be able to wake up w/o dreading the day and thinking about what can go wrong and what went wrong yesterday. i want to leave work w/o feeling like i'm slinking out, having barely avoided being fired. i want to be able to turn my back on people w/o imagining that they're thinking bad things about me. i want to go to sleep at night not thinking about the worst parts of the day.

i understand that your worst times are far from being the sum total of who you are but i want to feel that, and the only times that i do feel that is when i'm just off a manic tear and doing something like admiring my house after cleaning it from midnight until 5 am (even though i rarely have guests) or admiring the 12 hour straight unpaid indesign job i did (for a not-very-important school event which does not need a professional quality program or flier) or the 40 hours that i spent on a mix (that nobody will listen to) etc etc

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

what about meditation or something that will help you get away from the self-talk for a while?

not to be all hippy-dippy, just curious

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, it's odd, the one time i was really happy i was

-- working minimum wage

-- cycling 30-40 miles per day

in my minimum wage jobs i was busy attending to tons of menial tasks (filing, dusting, moving and packing boxes, watering plants, washing dishes) that got my mind off of everything. and when i was cycling i wasn't thinking about anything but counting my cadence.

maybe i will try that, it is a good suggestion.

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

i have tried in the past and not been successful but i think it is a good idea.

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

that makes sense too

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

teaching has this emphasis on reflecting on everything you did as a sort of continuous improvement model and in locating all the sources of student behavior in your own actions and changing them as needed

i think this is an excellent idea in theory but in practice - for me - it has basically been a mandate to beat myself up every day.

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Maybe you could try reading some philosophy type stuff on happiness

I could say what things that work for me but they're all finely tuned to my personality

Perhaps if you took the Big Five Personality test and Myers-Briggs Type Indicator I could try to give advice suited to your personality

I'm sure there's universal advice out there but I'm only focused on deviations today

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

What sort of thoughts make you smile to yourself?

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry for whining, i just feel like there's a 500 lb weight on my chest today and i'd like to get it off my chest if you will

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

infj iirc

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

no way man, voicing that shit is *important*

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah but i'm seeing my therapist in 24 minutes, surely it could have waited

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I gotta take my Myers-Briggs over again to figure out what I have to say if I have to say anything

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm probably here in this thread right now because I saw my therapist/med-prescriber a couple hours ago

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

meyers briggs has done poorly in empirical studies iirc

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

keep making mixes

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

not sure what your leanings are or thought style is, but reading about buddhism helped me put the crack in my life-long depression. it's not a cure-all, but the noble path, insight and breathing meditation, and nature of self and reality stuff is pretty damn useful as you figure things out.

helped me see how untrue the negative self-talk was cuz values are subjective and there is no objective truth re: our emotional selves and interpersonal/social shit, my equal place in humanity, etc. etc. dunno if this is just my own stuff, but regardless it's a good stepping stone to expanding your mind ... that's what it feels like getting out of each piece of depression, a totally unknown but actual reality becomes apparent in the mind. sorta a weird feeling ... maybe closest comparison is culture shock where going to a foreign country for the first time blows away your whole idea of how society can function.

Spectrum, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

then again my current therapist has a freudian orientation which iirc also "discredited" and she's in charge of a clinical mft program and has been amazing so who knows maybe the meyers briggs will be useful anyway

the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

you're INFJ and I'm INTP.
how much of a J are you? Like, how much do you desire control and routine?

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

does this picture make you smile?

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

no no we know faces can't turn into those

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

i really like buddhism, i used to read the heart and diamond sutras often and i've read a lot of pema chodron, and i like her, and i particularly like dt suzuki and alan watts even though that's not quite exactly the same thing

but even though i find that stuff has been useful for clarifying my intellectual ideas about life philosophy and reality and being and nothingness it's not really translated into a sense of contentment

then again i suppose they'd all say i need meditation too

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

are you really smart?

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's never too late to get stupid. and stupidity does have something to do with happiness

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

at least for me

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am definitely a creature of habit, down to warhol-esque eating habits

control maybe not so much but i do hate uncertainty ... i guess though that's more of an EJ vs IJ thing?

like i find my lack of self-control distressing and i have trouble rolling with the punches

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

am i really smart?

well i am posting to ilx on a macbook pro.

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think lack of self-control would be a good topic for you to bring up to your therapist. It seems like a topic that could be quite rewarding

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk man it's good to have some impulsivity
what 'perfect self-control' looks like is anorexia

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

imo imo imo

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's a truth bomb

horseshoe, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

am i really smart?

well i am posting to ilx on a macbook pro.

― teh late great

lol, I'm not really sure how to respond to that

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

late great otm

except that i didn't go to grad school and never had a dog

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

i really like buddhism, i used to read the heart and diamond sutras often and i've read a lot of pema chodron, and i like her, and i particularly like dt suzuki and alan watts even though that's not quite exactly the same thing

but even though i find that stuff has been useful for clarifying my intellectual ideas about life philosophy and reality and being and nothingness it's not really translated into a sense of contentment

then again i suppose they'd all say i need meditation too

Really? I never thought of Buddhism as an intellectual thing, so maybe that's the dif in effect (sure it's a billion other factors, too). What I got from it is that it's about our reality, but I'm a weird dude and hv been obsessed with death and existence since I was a kid, so maybe I'm doing something else with it, I've only read one book and just jumped off from there. Try and apply Buddhist ideas to daily life like a scientist performing and studying experiments, some of the stuff in there is pretty cool... I mean, it's evident without Buddhism, but it's like a trade study manual, I guess. YMMV, though, dunno how much of this is me. just wanna help.

Spectrum, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I used to think I made my shitzu into the insecure catlike creature she is today... but dogs are stupid. telling myself that makes me forgive the way I act around them

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

there have been times when I've mixed absurdism with the buddhist teaching of *nothing matters* to great affect

loosely using effect/affect here is pleasing to me. now that's where we might differ (***J vs. ***P)

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think absurdism has been fundamental in my development, even before I knew what it meant

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i actually have been talking about that, we agree that my relentless negativity and self-criticism is a way to control the emotional stress of living w/ ups and downs by just making sure i'm always down

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 01:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

the late great, i would never have imagined you were a depressed guy. your online presence has always made you seem so sorted, interesting, creative and, yes, cool. i've always enjoyed your posts x

ps i'm on a massive downer myself "lol" but it's more to do with loneliness. i'm a p. social guy who has somehow ended up so closed off from people.

jed_, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm in yr shoes jed :( I've let myself become really housebound, uninterested in "going out", I dont drive so I never do anyth8ing much spontaneous. I think living with an ex is offputting to new guys, and I'm sick of being single. Its ... getting to me a lot. Recently tried a few times to do things to fix this, only to fall on my face in humiliation.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh i'm interested in going out! it's just that no one really contacts me to do so and i have made a concerted effect to be proactive it's just kinda fallen on deaf ears. hopefully it will pass. for you too trayce. i have a job interview tomorrow. at least, i think it's an interview? it might just be a chat...

jed_, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Recently tried a few times to do things to fix this, only to fall on my face in humiliation.

perspective, tho -- i look at it more as dudes f'ing up.

i was going to go into a whole thing here but i'll refrain. suffice it to say that you needn't be coupled and you needn't settle for something half-assed just to be coupled.

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dats true. I dont know why of all things I'm letting *that* get to me when I could be improving myself practicing piano/drawing/catching up with friends. Gluh.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

mookieproof is right

a lot of things have compounded on you of late and things feel are starting to feel futile and the mean voice in your head is getting more of an audience because you feel so down

it's worth it to the ppl out in the world who haven't met you yet to keep trying. and whether or not you meet boyz or beaus, you are not the sum of the bad voices in yr head

<3

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

-- the things other people point out to cheer me up are barely-disguised colossal failures (grad school)

i identify with this (and much of everything else you said, late great)

rayuela, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

good news! i feel great this morning!

:-D

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

yay!

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Awesome :)

I came back to this thread to say that the person whom suggested restarting a bicycle routine was otm

we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah the main thing I notice in common amongst people who attest to white-knuckling this shit w/o meds is a fervent commitment to eating right and exercising a lot.

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah even w/ meds exercise and diet are very helpful, but OTOH if i can push back on that, you don't want to break your ankle and then slide back into depression, so i don't think it's necessarily the silver bullet

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

i read about a recent significant study that questioned the efficacy of exercise in improving mental health but obviously there are a whole stack of other reasons why exercise is a good idea

Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

My GP told me to get exercise. I was just all, now look.

pplains, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

but whether this proves to be accurate or not, if i was a GP i wd be telling people to exercise and not smoke and etc

Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol pplains

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i always seem to swing back into dep when i stop eating right and exercising. i can never hold down a good routine for more than 3 weeks. whether it is the exercise or just having something to do...

Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

suspicious of that study to say the least

coal, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Always feel a GP saying "get more exercise" is like an IT on the phone saying "Have you restarted the modem?"

pplains, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

NV, there's an follow-up to that study on scientific american that states that "the people in the physical activity intervention did not end up exercising more than controls": what was happening was that people were being encouraged to exercise, not actually having their exercise monitored.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/scicurious-brain/2012/06/11/exercise-doesnt-help-depression-lets-take-a-real-look-at-that-study/

but, yeah, if i was a GP i think i'd be saying 'drink a reasonable amount of water, eat healthily, exercise, don't smoke, don't drink to excess' almost no matter what health issues were going on? that stuff is basic keeping-body-and-soul-together.

though, that said, i am trying to do things right right now and i don't feel better for it, only probably-not-worse.

dethklok piccalo (c sharp major), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

(though i'm lucky in that when i am depressed i have pretty much no desire for alcohol or other drugs)

dethklok piccalo (c sharp major), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a lot to be said for not-worse! that not-worse-but-not-better period is when you let things slide because eh whats the point, but effect often not immediate

coal, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

i totally believe exercise does a lot for depression, not least because a lot of depressed people worry about their bodies, lack serotonin and feel bad about not getting out of the house. exercising improves your self-image, releases happy endorphins and (if you're not doing a workout video) helps you get out of the house and connect w/ nature (if you're outside exercising) or meet new people (gym) or see interesting stuff (jogging in city)

but i also think there are probably people who already exercise a lot who are depressed, and that won't help them. and there's also sort of a plateau you reach (ime) where you can exercise as much as you want but you're not going to feel any better than you already do. in my case there were parental issues i hadn't dealt with that were just not being improved by more exercise (those issues dealt with now, thank goodness)

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

and i'm not kidding about exercise addiction! from wikipedia ..

Exercise addiction is thought to be related to the euphoric feelings resulting from the rapid release of endorphins that occurs during intense bouts of exercise. Although the evidence in not conclusive, there is a high correlation between exercise addiction and endorphins. Endorphins work by activating opiate receptors in the brain causing pain relief and are also correlated with causing euphoric feelings.[8] The decrease of pain and increase in euphoric feelings creates a positive feedback loop associated with exercise which is thought to be a cause of addiction. This feedback loop also helps to explain why intensity of exercise increases over time with exercise addiction. For individuals who exercise more frequently the effects of endorphins are decreased. A person with an exercise addiction will need to increase the frequency, intensity, and/or time of exercising to reach the desired euphoric feelings.[10]

but yeah, by all means, exercise!

in fact part of the reason i'm quitting my job is to cut down on my two hour round trip commute so that i can get home at a reasonable hour and have some time to exercise ... getting back on the bike regularly is my #2 or #3 priority this summer, more tennis too, and maybe try to pick up basketball again.

the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

my life is massively better since i started exercising regularly a few years back, to some extent on a macro level, but just having something you can do that you know distracts you and brings a rush of endorphins, it's unbeatable.

ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

for me, it's hard to tell where there is causation and correlation, if i'm using those 2 terms correctly. like, when i'm depressed i can't muster up the energy to exercise. i just think about how i should, and then feel horrible about it because instead i sit in front of the TV and eat buckets of ice cream. and when i'm feeling slightly better, i get the motivation to go the gym and then that post-exercise euphoria makes me feel even better, so maybe once you've felt well enough to go, you do end up feeling better, but i think you have to be feeling somewhat well to even go exercise, unless you've built it into your daily routine and HAVE to do it, like commuting via bike or something.

rayuela, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't get the endorphin rush thing but, yeah, it's nice to have something to do where you can distract yourself from yourself and feel like it's in a good cause.

dethklok piccalo (c sharp major), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have a friend who doesn't even like the act of running but is doing all this jogging and marathons and shit because it helps fix her mind

mh, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

theres no doubt exercise keeps people literally sane but when you're depressed going from couch -> running is seemingly insurmountable. oh and why this stupid dance we have to do with drs like 'I need to tell you the type of drug i need because by now i know but i need to pretend i don't need or want it for you to be okay with writing it.' I mean 'go execise' OKAY DOC!

fine with 49 (sunny successor), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

When I used to get serious bouts of depression, exercising or not exercising didn't really matter and didn't change anything. Since I started meds a few years ago I find that not exercising for a week or so seems to make me feel sort of edgy and anxious and vaguely sad, but nothing like when I'd get before.

And after seeing what's happened to a relative lately I'm also really thankful that when I start to feel shitty I have no interest in booze or anything else.

joygoat, Thursday, 14 June 2012 04:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I would *love* exercise to be a rush for me, but it really isnt. Its a painful diffcult thing to do thanks to fuqued up joints. But, I do persist, and I certainly always feel better after a long walk. I just wish I ever got this addictive rush ppl go on about. I dont get it with sugar either.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Thursday, 14 June 2012 04:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dont get that rush either, i wouldn't worry about it - different people respond in different ways

for me its more about kind of idk...physical housekeeping that also has a knock on effect of some mental housekeeping - if you have joints issues, swimming is a good one to do, you also don't have to do it for that long, i try for 40 mins a day (i dont go *every* day, i aim to but it depends on schedule/busyness, i dont beat myself up if i dont go!)

coal, Thursday, 14 June 2012 04:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

not being a jerk but the rush thing only happens when you've pushed yourself a little beyond your limits ime, so if you're not getting it it may be that you need to build up to that.

ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 14 June 2012 09:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

No thats a fair point, and I will admit pushing myself is something i never do with exercise, so.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Thursday, 14 June 2012 10:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i always seem to swing back into dep when i stop eating right and exercising.

I can never work out if that's the case for me or if I stop eating right and exercising because I'm on a down-swing.

hipster Jubilee party (onimo), Thursday, 14 June 2012 10:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

keep a lil food diary!...and like a mood one too, it will answer that question

coal, Thursday, 14 June 2012 10:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can tell usually because I stop exercising when the weather turns shitty, which in England happens on the regular, and then the bad mood comes in the week after. This thread inspired me to go for a run earlier though! And I will try to learn some in-door activities for if it gets rainy.

Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 14 June 2012 12:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

trayce that sux abt yr joints but there must be some sort of low-impact exercise you can handle? yoga?

the late great, Thursday, 14 June 2012 14:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

am0n, Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

classic

markers, Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

So it turns out one can be completely unhappy for only so many years before it turns into capital-d Depression.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Monday, 18 June 2012 14:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am not surprised.

how's it going?

mookieproof, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

The days just keep going by. House payments and birthdays are mile markers. I get up, sit in this chair and stare at this screen all day, then I go to bed. It's not good that my work space is my entertainment space. I hate where I live, I hate my work, I hate what boredom/comfort eating has done to this bag of skin I wear, I don't have enough of an attention span to read a book, I've realized that I'm not as nice a guy as I used to think I was, my wife and I are getting on each other's nerves a lot more, sex life 98% finished... I'm sure there was something else, but I can't think of it. Anyway, I've hit the point in the last few months where I just shut down emotionally. Turned the sign on the window around from OPEN to CLOSED.

This may sound really weird or sarcastic, but I mean it 100% sincerely, Mookie -- thank you for asking.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm sorry, Wm. Not gonna even suggest anything because you are a grown man and know there are ways to tackle it, but I am just sorry.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've been quietly thinking of what I could say that would make any difference, and sadly I never thought of anything, but I have been thinking of you and your wellbeing WmC. That's gotta be worth something. Not as much as actually saying something though. Here's to shaking off the shit and feeling better, however it happens.

game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's gotta be worth something.

It's worth a huge, huge something. Thanks, LL and L.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

More and more I think that "happiness" and a not-depressed basic state require self-delusion. I'm okay with that, I understand this is why mental health is work and a personal responsibility--because it's not easy, esp if you have a clear-eyed view of this fucked up world full of assholes, p much. I tend to think that depression is an appropriate response to living in the world. It's just not a very satisfactory one.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was kind of thinking about what to say -- i actually woke up early today (which is wildly out of character) and was thinking, well, dude hates ms and works remotely, maybe he should move somewhere *good*.

of course i am familiar enough with the subject that such suggestions are wild flights of fancy far easier to suggest than implement.

do you see your daughter much? what does she think?

anyway, best wishes

mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, I've hit the point in the last few months where I just shut down emotionally. Turned the sign on the window around from OPEN to CLOSED.

Jesus. I understand this feeling all too well...

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was kind of thinking about what to say -- i actually woke up early today (which is wildly out of character) and was thinking, well, dude hates ms and works remotely, maybe he should move somewhere *good*.

I think about this all the time. I could live anywhere! But I'm shackled to this fucking place because it seems to be the only spot on earth where my wife doesn't want to kill herself. We moved back here in 2001 because she "wanted to be closer to family," but really the only family is her brother, who we see about twice a year even though he lives a whopping half mile away. She just hates cities, and I love them. Every time I make noises about moving, she says "well how do you know you'd be any happier somewhere else?" But this is veering off from depression-thread stuff to family-problems-thread stuff.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

W, tho we converse mostly about baseball, I wish you better days.

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

well

(oh man i am completely kickass at practical solutions that would be so far beyond me personally)

i don't want to poop on yr wife, but you have done your decade-plus and you are miserable. if you are aware of something that would make you happy (i am not, which is a problem), i would suggest doing it.

mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

I know they're just 1's and 0's here, but (hugs) for u, W

you will find yr way, I think

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

I tend to think that depression is an appropriate response to living in the world.
--how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel)

I agree with this. Sorry to hear abt yr problems WMC, even tho I don't really know u. It sucks to feel trapped and unsure whether any changes you make will be effective. In my case the uncertainty lies in the fact that no matter how much you change, you will still be yourself...will I be depressed no matter where I go? Sometimes I think that would be even more depressing, to make this big change only to find that nothing has really changed. But on some level I think that is my fear talking to me.

rayuela, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thank you all -- it feels good to unload a bit and not be told I'm the most miserable poster on ILX.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

nah you're awesome apart from the braves thing

mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahaha, thanks dude

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sometimes I think that would be even more depressing, to make this big change only to find that nothing has really changed.

I have lived in 6 cities in the last 8 years, and this is truer each time. Which is not to discount the fact that some places suck and others don't. Your day to day can change and significantly improve (or get worse) with a move, but it doesn't touch the core stuff at all. Can't run from yourself, etc.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sending good thoughts, WmC. It's not much but if you need a bottle of sriracha or something I'll be happy to ship it along.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

really sad to hear you're feeling this way WmC, you seem like a good dude.

what is your wife's definition of 'country'? could there not be some sort of compromise?

just1n3, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost -- Can you believe The Great Satan (Walmart) sells that stuff here in Amory? And I can get the other Huy Fong products at Kroger in Tupelo. High cotton! (Thanks, Ned.)

just1n3, our little NoCal adventure was sort of a compromise, but it didn't work out at all -- Redding at 80K people was still too big for her, and 225 miles was too far from the Bay Area for me to be able to really enjoy the music, art, baseball, etc as much as I wanted. I managed about three trips down per year during the 3+ years we lived there. This booming metropolis of 6500 is where she wants to be.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

wmc, i send you kindest wishes, and i think it sounds as if it's your emotional and mental health's turn to be given a higher billing. i really hope things improve soon.

estela, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

hang in there!

maybe you could move somewhere hip and fly out to see your wife every three months. my grandmother's sister's husband has been doing that for 20 years from his base in chicago. he was the first adult i was ever on a first-name-basis with. like flip the sign to "back in 20 minutes".

is it really hot and humid right now where you are?

the late great, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe you could move somewhere hip and fly out to see your wife every three months.
or the other way around
have you considered separate vacations? lots of people do this, i even know some of them.

game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wrt not being as nice a person as you thought, I'm going insist on my own experience, which is that I'm a not-very-committed poster who was a bit nervous of shuffling into the outloud room and had no good music to even contribute and you were welcoming and friendly. All the very best to you.

ljubljana, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe you could move somewhere hip and fly out to see your wife every three months.

We have considered this! It's not out of the question. (The heat is starting to kick in this week, though evenings are still pleasant. 93 degrees today.) LL, aside from the occasional joint vacation, I do go off on my own regularly -- the Vegas/New Mexico trip, Amsterdam a few years ago, etc.

Thanks again everybody -- I feel a little embarrassed bogarting this thread.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

What the thread is here for imo.

(almost feel like saying "feel better" is hypocritical given my usual state but I really do hope you feel better)

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don't be! Your problems are as worthy of attention as anybody else's. What threads like this are for.

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ha, WC. You should ask sunny how she copes with moving from one of the largest cities in the Southern Hemisphere to North Little Rock, Ark.

But her plan for escaping from the Bible Belt is to move to Utah. I'm all "Oookay, but o_O?"

pplains, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

sunny just wants to ski

mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Utah?!

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

mookie otm.

pplains, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, my fantasy is to leave the worldly metropolis and go a small town in maine. as the shaggs said, you can never pleeease any-boh-hoh-dee in this worrrrld.

thumbs.db (get bent), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

paul le page has no use for your enlightened ideas, alas

mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

what about paul lekakis?

thumbs.db (get bent), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

dude can dance

mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

boom boom

tempus fuggerit (electricsound), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

yo wmc, sending ~good vybes~ yr way.

Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Utah, man, living that big city dream of hanging out with 18-year-olds with fake IDs, drinking 3.2% beer at Kilby Court.
WmC, also sending good vibes. I don't have any solutions but I am really glad you shared, like everyone said, that's what this thread is for.

the magic butterfly made everyone feel relaxed (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kilby Court!!!

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kilby Court is basically my favourite place in USA

hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

WmC, I wish you lived close so that we could make each other go out and get vitamin D and sunshine and exercise! I've been feeling a lot like this lately - realized this week that I might actually be depressed again instead of just sad/tired which is how I would previously have described myself. Usually summer cures it but this year feels different. I'm trying, passively*, to wiggle out of my slump and I hope you can too. :) But until then, bitch and moan with the rest of us - that's what the board is for.

*I take vitamins and sometimes force myself to take dog or bike to park. Living life, right here!

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Good wishes to you, WmC. I really enjoy your posts, particularly the food-related stuff!

quincie, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thanks to everybody for the good vibes. Ironically, one reason it's so easy to spend all day staring at the internet is because, for the most part, ILX is a good community for people who desire community. If World FAP were to ever actually happen, I'd buy you all a round.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm officially inviting you to join me for a meal here anytime http://tank-noodle.com/index.php
it's my favorite!

game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Done!

I haven't given up trying to make it to Chicago! Maybe after the current issue of this accursed magazine goes to press...mid/late July?

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Keep chilx informed, we also still want to have giant southern meal -- just don't come the same weekend as my in laws.

game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have some friends who really love that place too, LL! I think we should commiserate over anti-depression noodles if I am around when it is colder outside.

mh, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

done

game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

anti-depression noodles are the best of ideas.

we don't interact much but you've always seemed a good sort to me, WmC, and i'm hoping you find a way to get yourself happier.

䷡ (c sharp major), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

I almost feel like depression isn't the opposite end of happiness, but a malaise that saps the emotional impact and energy out of all things other than depression.

mh, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's anhedonia, one of many aspects of depression

game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Guys I think I'm slowly coming to the realization that happiness is not the right goal? I mean it seems like a losing battle to strive towards something that is fleeting or temporary at best, right? I think maybe there is something else to aim for and happiness is a symptom of that thing but what is it?

Has someone else's face gotten in the way of yr foot or elbow? (sunny successor), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sure, happiness is just shorthand for "able to enjoy the world & things when you choose to." Kind of.

The "something else to aim for" has to be different for difft people, and also could get New Agey really fast, but I would hazard one thing is...utility? Connectedness? To know what your place (probably, roughly, hopefully) is in the world, and to inhabit it.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Absence of loose ends and general contentedness for me, thanks.

game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Guys I think I'm slowly coming to the realization that happiness is not the right goal? I mean it seems like a losing battle to strive towards something that is fleeting or temporary at best, right? I think maybe there is something else to aim for and happiness is a symptom of that thing but what is it?

I think this is true -- my goal basically boils down to a combo of "fully present and conscious in the moment" + "doing one's best on the task at hand"

xposts

Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Guys I think I'm slowly coming to the realization that happiness is not the right goal? I mean it seems like a losing battle to strive towards something that is fleeting or temporary at best, right? I think maybe there is something else to aim for and happiness is a symptom of that thing but what is it?

― Has someone else's face gotten in the way of yr foot or elbow? (sunny successor), Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:51 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Remind me to lend you my well-worn copy of The Gospel According to Peanuts.

pplains, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kilby Court is basically my favourite place in USA

― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:01 AM (8 hours ago)

<3 <3

the magic butterfly made everyone feel relaxed (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Guys I think I'm slowly coming to the realization that happiness is not the right goal? I mean it seems like a losing battle to strive towards something that is fleeting or temporary at best, right? I think maybe there is something else to aim for and happiness is a symptom of that thing but what is it?

I think it's better to think about the next thing, or the things you like doing. In the last few months I've been doing an acting class which literally started the week I stopped being eligible for public healthcare funded therapy (and actually was as helpful and in-depth.) I've also been running a lot. It's not that these things make me automatically happier, just that I dunno, knowing I'm unhappy or have unhappiness has been a very peaceful realisation.

I feel like I've stopped thinking about happiness as that unattainable goal or thinking "will I ever be happy" and started trying to just know my own unhappiness and the rest of me as best I can.

It's not like some miraculous transformation but I feel sometimes lately that it's harder to distinguish negativity from positivity, eg tonight I did a big scene I'd been working on at my class and on the way home I just felt entirely quiet and sort of melancholy, but completely relaxed and calm.

Some vague point emerges here which hopefully someone else might relate to...

PS: I had a crush on the acting teacher too.

ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

now it all becomes clear :)

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah for me, satisfaction is an aim, rather than happiness. Being satisfied, content, with each moment. Of course, I'm far from that a lot of the time, but thats really my own fault, especially lately. I do worry that I set my bar too low out of disillusion, sometimes.

Rock, I wish you good cheer, many a pleasant sunset evening in your summertime, and a hope the fog clears soon. You've always been a steady hand this board sorely needs at times, and I always note and appreciate it.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ditto to being content. Letting go of stressing over the things you don't have, or aren't yet. Enjoy every sandwich, as Warren Zevon said, even if you're not dying.

nickn, Thursday, 21 June 2012 06:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Interview with the creator of Boggle the Owl: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/06/06/boggle-the-owl-loves-you/

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Now I'm really depressed.

pplains, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Okay. This is a question, and it is not meant to be a statement, but I feel like people are likely to judge me as though it is. I just... I guess I just want to know how many of the people who post here have this label as a thing that they live their daily lives under, as opposed to just posting here when they feel sad and like things are shit or overwhelming them... because so much that gets posted here is all motivational and crap, and I just feel like, actually, what is is REALLY LIKE, is that you just want to die, and that you should die, and that nothing pretty anyone else will say will matter, because that actually isn't what depression is like, that's what "being a bit sad" is like, and you know, fuck you guys, you'll all be fine, and I won't, I won't ever ever ever be fine, and I should die right here and now. So, uh, how many of you guys think that too when you read this thread? Is it just me?

emil.y, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know em, the little owl said you shouldn't die and it is getting a lot of reposts.

I'm going to make a little canary who says "cheer up! your other arm works! maybe the broken one can be a conversation piece!"

I'm not really depressed, not diagnosed as such anyway. I completely hear what you're saying.

pplains, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like owls. I would just stamp on that owl's head repeatedly while going FUCK YOU, YOU DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE, FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU.

emil.y, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

(Also, diagnostics are not the only thing... I knew I was depressed for twenty years before I ever even got the inkling of a 'diagnosis'. Yes, that's since being ten years old. And I still haven't had more of a diagnosis than 'take these pills for your depression'. So yeah, I'm bitter. But seriously, anyone who thinks a cartoon owl can lift their depression, can you please just fuck right off right now.)

emil.y, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if I know what it's really like. I know I've been taking care of a bipolar person for almost 20 years so I've been able to see what depression is really like; and I know that after many years of merely being unhappy, over the past year I've felt something very different and a lot worse.

Biff Wellington (WmC), Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't really feel like going into my credentials for posting here, so i'm willing to stipulate that yes, you are the saddest, most depressed owl of all

xp

mookieproof, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have been very sad at times, and even been so beaten down I was emotionally numb for the majority of several years. But clinical depression and garden-variety sadness or emotional numbness should not be considered as comparable.

If someone says, I'm feeling depressed lately, then it is probably sadness or general numbness. If they say I don't see how I can live with this feeling another day, it's like some horrible blackness has swallowed me whole, all I want to do is die, then odds on it is clinical depression.

Aimless, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

But... the owl isn't depressed. The owl is a pretend friend. I am not pretending to be an owl. I am just irritated at an owl pretending to be something that can alleviate the need to destroy yourself completely and utterly and... seemingly other people going along with it. I don't understand why.

emil.y, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost to mookie, sorry Aimless.

emil.y, Saturday, 23 June 2012 02:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like how the owl keeps pontificating what other people are really thinking of you.

Because I really give a good goddam about that.

pplains, Saturday, 23 June 2012 03:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp no offense was taken whatsoever, emil.y

Aimless, Saturday, 23 June 2012 03:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

I will say that yeah, often depression seems to be very much like other people who are depressed telling you to go away because you're too depressing. Sorry, everyone. I realise that everyone builds their own protective shell in order to deal with it, but I get so sick of that shit, I mean, if you're given a space to talk about how crap you feel, why talk about the shell you've built instead of what's inside it?

emil.y, Saturday, 23 June 2012 03:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

for the record, I know I seem like a dorky cheerleader itt telling ppl nice things, but I don't like the idea of ppl itt thinking that no-on'es listening or paying attention to what they're going through. I have no personal experience with clinical depression

and though we're all a bunch of internet strangers I care pretty deeply for more than a few ppl itt, so I'll stand by my sentimental dorkiness :) but that should never invalidate anyone's right to just say that they want to stomp owl heads etc

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 23 June 2012 03:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am just irritated at an owl pretending to be something that can alleviate the need to destroy yourself completely and utterly and... seemingly other people going along with it.

Lots of things pretend to be this. Organized religion, counseling, friggin accupuncture. Even placebos have their place, but some people -- shock and awe -- actually ARE able to reevaluate themselves via some words that put things in perspective.

I personally thought myself much too intelligent to feel that someone else would be able to give me insight because, paradoxically, my feelings were so fucking common and the obvious version of anxiety and occasional depression that it would be patronizing to address them, or that I was smart enough to see through whatever bullshit because I knew what the world was really like.

Both of those things were anxiety and depression coloring my ability to actually want to get out of it. The thing is, depression loves enabling itself, and your mental state will tend to help the condition along. It is a fight, and some people feel a little fictional owl telling them platitudes is a better inner voice than the one telling them that the owl needs to fuck off. It's a choice what you choose to have as your inner voice.

mh, Saturday, 23 June 2012 04:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not to mean the only two choices are listening to your cynical depression-enabling inner self or a cartoon owl. I'd be pissed if there were only those two choices.

mh, Saturday, 23 June 2012 04:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah on the stuff up thread, personally I'm fairly sure I'm not clinically depressed, but I've been chronically sick for so long that my feelings about that and myself are hard to unpack, sort of a chicken/egg thing.

I don't want to die but I suppose there's a whole heap of reasons people can have problems, that are serious and legitimate.

ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Saturday, 23 June 2012 08:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

not too into the owl, personally. the depression comix that someone posted to this thread, or was it another thread? - those i liked, though they work differently than the owl is intended to function. i dunno, maybe the owl makes some "authentically" depressed people feel better. i am willing to suspend my disbelief about the owl, similar to how i suspend my disbelief (or try to) that my life is worth living and hope is worth having. have i really had this "condition" for 25 years? geez louise, yeah, 25 years.

sarahell, Saturday, 23 June 2012 08:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

i can relate to you, LG, tho i've had a somewhat traceable progression from no depression in the first few yrs, to situational, and more serious in teh past year or two.

more often than i'd like, and with growing frequency, i wish i had a terminal rather than chronic illness. i'm in therapy.

everybody's got their situations that feel heavy and overwhelming and unsustainable, and whatever helps is worth something, however silly it may seem to others, imo.

(oh hai thread i mostly lurk.)

JuliaA, Saturday, 23 June 2012 14:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw, could this thread perhaps be 77ed or at least deindexed? thx

mookieproof, Saturday, 23 June 2012 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am depressed and anxious and have panic attacks. Comfortable with calling myself mentally ill. On meds. Pro-cartoon-owls.

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Saturday, 23 June 2012 16:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

mentally owl

chupacabra seeds (Abbbottt), Saturday, 23 June 2012 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry I shouldn't turn such serious things into a stupid pun

chupacabra seeds (Abbbottt), Saturday, 23 June 2012 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

owl say

thomp, Saturday, 23 June 2012 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Boggle needs more slow-motion flame-bucket fights scored to Dead Can Dance song

chupacabra seeds (Abbbottt), Saturday, 23 June 2012 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

more owl puns, please

mh, Saturday, 23 June 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Emily, I have def been diagnosed on a number of occasions with major depression. In he end the real diagnosis was ADD, anxiety and PTSD. Depression can be a symptom of these for sure but now I'm stuck taking anti-deps because I can't deal with being fucked up for a year while my brain readjusts.

Cussing like a bunch of Bukowskis (sunny successor), Sunday, 24 June 2012 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Guess who got himself a case of shingles? Whoo-hoo!

I am the best at being the worst.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Monday, 25 June 2012 00:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh no! I'm sorry - it's supposed to be really painful. Probably to do with all the stress? Take care of yourself, N.

(✿◠‿◠) (ENBB), Monday, 25 June 2012 00:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Definitely to do with all of the stress. Thankfully, I caught it early because, because of it showing up with a few other nerve-y things, I had myself convinced that it was MS, so I went to the doctor as soon as I could.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Monday, 25 June 2012 00:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

^You can remove a "because," if you'd like.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Monday, 25 June 2012 00:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

It is at the least, a very good thing you dont have MS :D xx

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Monday, 25 June 2012 00:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yikes dude! So glad you caught it early.

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 25 June 2012 01:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

For me one of the worst things about the Major D is how, when it gets really bad, I start thinking everyone who doesn't have it is a stupid shit. Also how the bad mood magically brings back every other depressive episode ever and makes it seem like that's what MY ENTIRE LIFE HAS ALWAYS BEEN.

I really started to feel myself sliding down into the shit over the past few weeks--after a year of really bad anxiety, agoraphobia & hypochondria. Just absolutely exhausted, wanting to sleep all the time, bored and isolated, but too freaked out/tired whenever I tried to socialize/be active. But this thread for real made me feel slightly better to the point where I'm not utterly doomed. This and RuPaul's drag race. Also lists with stuff like 1.unload dishwasher 2.trim nails 3.clean cheese off the carpet.

emilys., Monday, 25 June 2012 23:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

<3 that list

mh, Monday, 25 June 2012 23:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah finishing a lot of mundane and neccesary things is what keeps me going, sometimes. KNowing theyre DONE, such a weight off, even when its just doing the dishes (or in one recent amazing load off case of mine, doing 6 years of taxes and finally paying off a 15 year old student loan)

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Monday, 25 June 2012 23:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Most of that post sounds like my life last week. :) high five, emily!

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 25 June 2012 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

let's go to rupaul U together, get dragulated.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, 25 June 2012 23:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not that I regard myself as Clinical D depressed. I am a bit skewed downwards, and I certainly dont manage my moods or reactions as well as I could (hi, booze) but Ive never wanted to kill myself so I guess I'm ok?

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Monday, 25 June 2012 23:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

That sounds like "I'm a good driver, I've never totaled my car!"

mh, Monday, 25 June 2012 23:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Haha yeah, I know :(

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I say this as someone who has been in, and caused, a couple car accidents btw. No judgment.

mh, Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I've never wanted to kill myself, it's more I get to feeling like I'm gonna evaporate. I do worry about becoming suicidal, but that might be more an obsessional thing. But I don't think you have to have suicidal ideation to be clinically D'ed.

emilys., Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

@finefine, I really need to have a tic tac lunch with Ru

emilys., Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

I would but I ate in 2005..

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also her handling of Tyra's panic attack was classic. "Okay, do we need to breath into the paper bag?" I definitely need a calming, authoritative figure like that around.

emilys., Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also, congrats Trayce. That's some serious taking care of adult business that I can't even fathom right now.

emilys., Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah it really hung over my head like an ever-swinging scythe! I never realised how much it bothered me - it really is one of those adult things, and taxes, money in general has always really overwhelmed me for some reason. It does one wonders to achieve things like that, I think.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Tuesday, 26 June 2012 00:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Found an IRL representation of our friend The Cartoon Owl.

pplains, Tuesday, 26 June 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Maybe they are advertising a mobility-enhancing robot exoskeleton.

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 26 June 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I was doing ok for a few days and just crashed hard today- just can't stop beating myself up over letting social phobia and depression take away not just college but now pretty much my entire 20s, and horrified at the thought of going to therapy (again) or on meds (again) when that's all I've been doing since age 12 or so and it's gotten me absolutely nothing beyond the basic ability to make eye contact for up to two seconds at a time without crying. Being told that after a few years of therapy I might be able to be feel comfortable around other people just kind of makes me want to die. I mean, what's the point now?

muus lääv? :D muus dut :( (Telephone thing), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 00:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh god, eye contact is the worst. That and being around people. I live in New York, and am nowhere near being able to afford living on my own, and don't know anyone, so I have to live with craigslist randos, and I can't tell you how much I hate not being able to pee or go to the fridge or really anything without having to deal with someone else.

I'm sorry TT, this shit is incredibly rough. Are there people around that care about you? Maybe just do it (trying to get better, I mean) for them, and later in the process you can figure out how to do it for yourself.

One thing I'm learning is that, while I keep thinking "why should I get better when I can just stagnate and not have to go through all that shit?" that's not really an option. Doing nothing isn't a neutral thing, it just makes your day to day worse and worse. Unfortunately (at least I tend to think it's unfortunate, I'm sure the starry-eyed optimists think it's awesome) stasis isn't actually an option; things only get better or worse.

Also (and I'm incredibly guilty of thinking otherwise myself), we're actually very young, and nowhere near any point of no return. Even if it does take years of therapy (which seems like a discouraging, worst-case-scenario thing to say), whole new lives can start in, doing the rough math, your early 30's.

I don't know if any of this helps, it doesn't often when similar things are said to me, but I hope you feel better.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 01:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

en i see kay perhaps you should have beers with the greater nyc ilx group sometime. i mean, we're people, but largely decent ones.

mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 01:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'd be down for that. As long as no one gets stoned and talks *at* me for 15 minutes about how some guy is out of their league, you'll have one up on my roommate.

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do you know, in all this time I didn't realize you were RIGHT HERE. How COULD you??

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

No guilt, no guilt. I'm just saying.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

i can promise to refrain from eye contact/getting stoned, though i obviously can't speak for others

mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cripes tt, you sound just like me. It fucking blows BLOWSSSS ... it's like being dead while alive, but worse because you're living with excruciating torture everyday. Only recently shit's turning around for me, but it took a critical moment where I said "fuck it, I don't care what I gotta do, I'm fixing this shit." Cuz that's the only way... it's inevitable if you want to live life, but it's worth it when everyday becomes more and more bearable, and sometimes even enjoyable. But goddamn it's hard to do, especially on your own. There's no other way, though, but it's totally possible to get better. /hooray!

Spectrum, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Because I'm an awful, terrible person, oh my god, I am so sorry, I always do this, etc.

xxpost

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Listen, sorry, I'm kind of overbearing. The thing is we already know about your anxiety, right? So you can just have a beer and not talk, and we can mostly leave you alone if that's what you want, but at least you'll be out with people who know something about you? And still invited your company. That seems worthwhile?

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Nah, I'd be up for that, and I appreciate the offer. Thanks!

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

You can meet iatee. I mean just think! An ilx legend.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

man I want to meet iatee

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

I would like to meet p much any ilxors

he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

that too

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 02:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know... see, I lived in the suburbs this one time... I was only house sitting for a friend, I swear.