The Mormons

On Dating

In cultures where Dating is appropriate , do not date until you are 16 ... When you begin Dating go in groups or on double dates... Because Dating is prepration for marriage , date only those with high standards

On Dress and Apperance

Servents of God have always counsled his children to dress modestly to show respect for him and for themselves...Immodest clothing includes short shorts, tight pants , and other revealing attire. Young women should avoid off the shoulder , low cut or revealing clothes ...all should avoid ... extremes in clothing and apperance ... As a Latter Day Saint Youth , you can also respect the Lord and yourself by dressing appropiately for church

On Friendshipping

Your circle of friends will greatly influence your thinking ... Together you can meet the high standards of gospel living

On Language

...Use Langauge to build and uplift those around you Profane , vulgar and crude langauge is an offense to the Lord ... Dont lower yourself to such langauge or jokes ...

On Media, Movies, Televison, Radio, Videocassettes, Books and Magazines

Our Heavenly Father has counsled LDS youth to seek out anythign virtous ... Media can Uplift and inspire ... teach you good and moral principles ... But they can also make what is worng and evil look normal ... Pornogrpahy is esp. dangerous and addictive . Curious Exploration of Pornography can become a controllign habit ... if you continue to watch porngrophy your conciensce will erode ... Do not atttend or particpate in any form of entertainment ...that is vulgar ... suggestive , or porngraphic in any way Dont be afraid to walk out of a movie or turn off the television set ... if it does not meet Heavenly Fathers Standards ...

On Mental Health

... Any form of alchol , including beer, is harmful to your spirit and your body... Drinking is expensive and could lead to acholism which is destructive , dangerous and deadly

On Music and Dancing

Music can draw ourselves closer to your Heavenly Father ... However Music can be used for wicked purposes . Music by its tempo , beat, intensity and lyrics can dull your spirit ... You cannot afford to spend your time listening to unworthy music

Sexual Purity

Our Heavenly Father has counsled that sexaul intimacy should be reserved for his children with in the bounds of marriage ...The Lord Specfically forbids certain behaviours including sexaul realtions before marraige, petting , sex perversion( such as homosexauilty , rape and incest , masterbation and a preoccupation with sex in thought speech or action ... Homosexual and lesbian are sinful and an abomadation to the Lord . Unnatural affections includinf those towards persons of the same gender are counter to the eternal plan for his children. You are responsible to make the right choices . Whether directed toward those of the same or oppioste gender, lust...may lead to more serious sins.

The Mormon church hands out this pamphlet (its 13 pages long, i hit the highlights ) to every twelve year old boy and girl. It is a hateful and restricve cult . They do not allow their materials out of the hands of members but they have an equally offensive document called The Procloamtion on the Family which is [erhaps the most homophobic document i have seen. Members are told to post a copy in their homes. As well they stole thier ultra secret temple rituals from the masons .

Have you seen how sexaully repressed they are? Or the depression rates for mormon woman in Utah ? Or the rate of teen sucicide ? Do i have to find the stats

It's true that their rules seem restrictive -- but most of them accept it and have found other ways to get their kicks.

They equate homosexaulity with rape and incest. They discourage doubt and intellectual thought . This is not restrictive in an aestic sense this is purtain and censorus .

I sure wish I'd had some rules when I was growing up. Instead my parents let me did anything I wanted, sex, drugs, anything "it's your own choice, honey," but I found myself resentful towards them, because deep down inside I felt that they just didn't care what I did because they didn't care about me.

Two extremes there . Mormonism allows parents teh delusion that they are raising good kids while they slide into apsossy .

They were both professional yuppies, and I always knew their carreer came first, not me. If I'd grown up a Mormon,

I grew up mormon. It was scary. I was told not to masterbate, to throw out tapes and books. I was told to belive in space aliens and magic planets. I was told by the church i was filthy and evil. That i was unclean and would remain unclean. I was taught that woman should do all the work but no make a fuss. I was taught that blacks are inferior to whites. Have you read the Pearl of Great Price or McKonkies mormon doctrines ?

I probably would have picked and chosen what I rules I wanted to keep, but actually having a "code" like that would have saved me from fucking up in a major way.

No because most teenagers view "the code" as a way to rebel. Nothing better then giving a teen written instructions on just what pisses off mommy and daddy most. As for Mormons being homophobic...well, that's YOUR OPINION.

The excommunicate you for it. What clearer indication do you need for their disproval then if you keep up we will drag you in front of an ecclestical court. AND YES IT DOES HAPPEN . i was ex'd as were a slew of my close freinds. Plus how else could you intererpt that

What happened to letting other people have their own personal opinions?

Hate is a different matter . If you belive consensual homosex is the same thign as incest or rape or bestality then thats not an opinon , thats a delusion.

I as your entitled to your, ironically, bigoted kneejerk reaction.

I spent 20 years in the church . I have my endowments. I ended up as an elder. I have talked to the missionaries in the last month. My opnion is emotional and proably oepidal but i does not come from the ether and it is not kneejerk .

anthony - do you think this means guys can get away with push-up bras...i mean, i understand the restriction against lycra and stuff, put...oh, it's just confusing, and they don't like coffee either - i mean what sort of whacko nuts dislike coffee?

"Sexually repressed?" Sounds like a load of crap to me. In case you haven't noticed, I'm kind of a mormon "fan" although I'd never want to join their church. I've dated two mormons and known a bunch more, from my experience the last thing they are is "sexually repressed," which sounds suspiciously like politically correct sociological bullshit.

"They equate homosexaulity with rape and incest. They discourage doubt and intellectual thought . This is not restrictive in an aestic sense this is purtain and censorus."

Okay -- it's a _Church_. They teach certain behaviors and attitudes -- that's a what a Church _does_. If you disagree with those attitudes it's your own problem, you don't have to be a part of it. As for discouraging doubt and "intellectual thought," you may be partially right, but not really, because your own experience is proof that Mormons do think and have doubts and leave the church when they disagree with it.

"I grew up mormon. It was scary. I was told not to masterbate"

So what? I think it's pretty unrealistic to ask people not to masturbate, and I doubt there's many who keep that maxim. But you act as if these are all arbitrary requirements -- I can definitely understand why they'd discourage masturbation; if your only avenue of sexual fulfillment is marital sex, you can imagine the massive incentive a young person would have to get married. In a family oriented church, makes sense to me.

"I was told to belive in space aliens and magic planets."

You're sounding sillier and sillier. I don't mean to be offensive, but I'm having trouble believing your story. "Space aliens?" What the heck are you on about? Maybe you're confusing the Mormons with the Scientologists. "I was told by the church i was filthy and evil. That i was unclean and would remain unclean."

I really doubt it.

"I was taught that woman should do all the work but no make a fuss. "

This is especially laughable, because I've noticed the exact opposite; in the mormon families I knew that were the _most_ devout, it seemed like the women were definitely in charge, and ran their husbands lives totally. I don't think their husbands minded, neccesarily, but it was definitely lopsided.

"I was taught that blacks are inferior to whites. Have you read the Pearl of Great Price or McKonkies mormon doctrines ? "

Believe me, I've looked into the church doctrines. They've been trying to get me to join for years, and I've investigated it to see if I really want to. Truth is, I don't. But I've never seen anything in the church teachings to show racism -- oh sure, there's plenty of racism. I'm not black, but I'm a brown-skinned hispanic. And the Mormon church has _more_ then it's share of racists. And I'm sure those bigots have plenty of verses and stuff that they can twist to their own sick beliefs. But as far as I can tell racism isn't supported by the mormon church itself.

"No because most teenagers view "the code" as a way to rebel. Nothing better then giving a teen written instructions on just what pisses off mommy and daddy most."

Yeah, whatever. This with the assumption that _all_ teens want to rebel and piss mommy and daddy off. Well, they do, actually. But I say it's better to raise up kids to a higher standard, so that when they rebel it's by having sex and watching R-rated movies, not doing other stuff that can totally screw up their lives, like they did mine for a few years.

"The excommunicate you for it. What clearer indication do you need for their disproval then if you keep up we will drag you in front of an ecclestical court. AND YES IT DOES HAPPEN . i was ex'd as were a slew of my close freinds. Plus how else could you intererpt that"

My gosh, can't you get this through your skull -- it's a CHURCH. they have their teachings and standards. it's like a club; if you don't want to follow the club rules, you don't have to be there. thats exactly why i'm not a mormon. but it's, frankly, stupid to break their "club rules" and then complain when you get kicked out. you have yet to address the fact that they believe that homosexuality is a sin; so it's only logical for them to kick you out for committing what they consider a major sin. I've known several mormon "bishops" or pastors. of them was a total asshole, but the others were very nice guys. I was dating the daughter of one, and he was cool that she wanted to hang out with me and make her own choices about what she wanted to do. anyway my point is I don't think that they're the unfeeling monsters you portray them to be. I'll bet that they gave you a chance to "mend your ways" and you decided that you'd rather not be in the church then to conform to their standards. Good for you, follow your conscience. If it's such a crappy church, why are you so mad about being exed anyway? Unless that's _why_ you're so resentful, which would explain all the unfair judgements you've been making against them.

take the quakers fro instance. a lot of their doctrine can be taken to extreme eg plymouth brethren - offshoot of the quakers, who sound pretty similar to the mormons, eg excommunication (my grandfather's family were cut off from all their aunts/sisters etc etc when they left), repression of certain things (my mum was never allowed a record player till she was 21) etc etc.

i just thought that seemed a bit of a silly comment to make, and not relevant to the matter in hand

Same with Mormons. Live and let live. They seem no dumber or more evil than any of a number of religions. But this deal about tablets and hidden planets is still wacko.

There are worse xtian offshoots than Mormons (The Rock and its network in Halfiax is one) thats for sure. I just tell people Im catholic and they bugger off with their high polluting religous talk. yee haw for half truths. Unless of course they catch me drunk in a bar, note to anyone thinking of trying this in the future, dont try to convert people in a bar. You will get me in trouble if Im anywhere near.

"Should you to hie to kolob in the twinkling of an eye..."

Yeah, I know about that shit. At least it's different and interesting, instead of the typical crap you'd hear at most other Christian churches. Why is it that when eastern religions introduce concepts of infinity and endlessness that everyone oohs and ahhs, and when the mormons try to have a similar type feel they're "whackos" ?

"Read the entry on blacks in the Mormon Doctorine. It is still doctorine htat the curse of cain was darkened skin."

Not only do I know that, but I know about the verses in their scriptures that talk about native americans having dark skin because of a separate, but similar curse. I'm not saying I believe that but so fucking what? Dark skinned hispanics are joining the mormons in droves. One of my best friends in the world is in nicaragua now helping them do it. It's _not_ racist to say that I have dark skin because of a "curse" on my forefathers wickedness or whatever -- obviously! Obviously whatever they did has no bearing on me. And anyway, everyone knows dark-skinned chicks are the hottest -- else why would all these pale chicks be frantically tanning.

"But the stricter the rules the greater the rebellion, no ?"

Oh, OF COURSE! That's perfectly logical all right!!!!! Only sarcastic of course.

As for you being queer, I sympathize with you if you were treated unkindly -- I'm sure there are many bigots in the church, just as there are everywhere in society.

Someone mentioned that Mormons really fear social dissaproval. They got that right. But it's worse in the more mormon-heavy areas, like utah and idaho. No offence, but I HATE Utah. The majority of the people are mormon but they're mostly hypocritical assholes.

I think I've exhausted my interest in this topic. Can't say it dissapoints me.

This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode I saw last night (I never was a fan, I'm watching them for the first time): George waits in line for the payphone for a long time, and then finally when the other guy gets off the phone, this woman snuck in before him. "What a dark world," he snarls, "where NOBODY will EVER show any kindness or decency to another human being." Suddenly the first guy passes by, and pats him on the shoulder and says, "Hey, sorry I took so long," "No problem," George says absently, not even noticing the irony.

I've _got_ to find out what the writers for Seinfeld went on to do. I would give a pound of flesh for a new sitcom that's as half as good as Seinfeld is.

From his first response to you, you could see he was VERY involved and the argument, far from being debate, was personal. His experience is far more in-depth than yours. But you didn't back off, you continued attacking from your stance of limited knowledge and assumption.

So don't start apologising for his mistreatment, because you've just repeated it and come across to us (well me, at least) as a heartless bastard.

Also the whole "get over it for getting kicked out, it's a club, obey the rules or else" mentality falls down when you remember they're teaching this stuff to their children.

I think quite often religion of this restrictive a creed verges on child abuse. A gay teen, kicked out of a church-based community when EVERYONE that person knows is part of that community? That's fucking sick, chum and you should see it, even if you are a homophobic apologist for a corrupting faux church.

Many world religions condemn homosexuality.

In conclusion, condemning homosexuality, the very idea of missionary work, the use of a faith to back up a political opinion, all of this is rubbish, and as history has taught us, quite disastrous.

Example and case in point: My friend's mother (who has a gay son) is very religious, a simple woman, salt of the earth human being. Her religion brings a certain quiet sancitude to her life, she enjoys religion for the peace aspect. Making grand assumptions of religious people is extremely off-base and off-putting.

This woman's son is gay. He is not as "look at me, look at me, I'm queer, say it loud, I'm a fag and I'm proud" (why is militant queerness, put up with in society, if it were asians, blacks, jewish whites, it is wrong, but it is fine (I'm digressing, cause militant anything gets on my tits.)

But, she did not repel cause he was gay. Alot of religious folk I know make allowances for how beautiful and varied humanity truly is.

To write of all religions based on a bad experience is prejudiced and ill-informed, cause you are writing off some fantastic folk.

I guess anthony is a regular, he must feel good to have you defending him. But I don't believe I've been 'cruel,' per se. This is an internet discussion forum, however, and this discussion has been less flammatory then some topics I've read in the short time I've been browsing here. Looking back maybe I did come on too strong, for such a sensitive subject. I think there's an equally strong ad hominem coming from the "other side," however, as partially evidenced in your post.

I guess it's definitely a fallacy that I don't care about this issue. I thought I didn't, but it just irks me to see unfair attitudes and insulting statements made about the Mormons. Imagine if someone told you "blacks should stay out of college, they don't have the intelligence to compete with caucasian kids," do you think you'd argue against that? Or how about if someone told me "I feel sorry for your wife -- after all, mexicans all beat their wives don't they?"

"His experience is far more in-depth than yours. But you didn't back off, you continued attacking from your stance of limited knowledge and assumption."

I don't know anthony; and I'm loath to say this, but I am kinda suspicious that he knows so much about the mormons. Some of the things he's said are utterly ridiculous.

"So don't start apologising for his mistreatment, because you've just repeated it and come across to us (well me, at least) as a heartless bastard. "

You know, maybe you're right. Looking back maybe I -was- hammering him, piling on paragraphs of text on him. But so what? Like I said before, this is a web board, I should hope everyone here is used to the often combative air of these discussions, no matter what the topic. if there's any rules that prohibit strongly disagreeing with someone, I didn't see them on my way in.

"Also the whole "get over it for getting kicked out, it's a club, obey the rules or else" mentality falls down when you remember they're teaching this stuff to their children."

NOT THE CHILDREN!!! It's all a matter of opinion, bub. I don't see what's so wrong with what they teach their children. I wish I'd had some of those teachings, and anthony and thousands of others is proof they can always change their mind later. Unless you think that it's wrong to teach your kids anything, just let them grow up totally free to choose their own principles? Forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's the philosophy my own parents used, and it's total bullshit.

"A gay teen, kicked out of a church-based community when EVERYONE that person knows is part of that community? That's fucking sick, chum and you should see it, even if you are a homophobic apologist for a corrupting faux church."

First of all, anthony clearly said he was an adult when he was exed. Second of all, I don't think that they'll just automatically ex you; they'll work with you and see if you want to change your ways, and then if you don't they cut you loose.

For the record, I don't believe in discriminating or being unkind towards gays. I don't believe that gay people are evil, and neither do most of the religious people I know, mormon or otherwise. They just believe in that queerness is unnatural and wrong and that people who are queer are misguided.

Now I don't know if I agree with that; I don't know very many gay people now. One of my best friends dad was gay and I used to have a good friend in college who was gay. I knew some of his buddies too. I got along with all these famously; I didn't judge them and it didn't get in the way of us being friends. So I don't think gays are evil people; I _am_, however, very sure that homosexuality is learned behavior.

My friends Dad that I mentioned was gay in college, then he got married to a woman, apparently "going straight," and now that he's divorced he's exclusively gay again -- what's up with that? Jeff, my friend from college, said that he didn't start being attracted to men until after he was (what he later knew to be) abused by his stepdad. How people can think it's not enviromental and learned is beyond me.

And another thing; condemning a group for "child abuse" for teaching principles that were the norm for 90% of American society forty years ago is absurd. Of course, you may think everyone who came of age before 1967 was abused. Maybe so, but then how did this country become "great," a vague term but most people I know agree with it.

The ballooning of this response and it's existence show that was once again lying when I said I had no more interest in this. Oh well.

Re: hans, I don't need an "excuse" for my viewpoint, I think it's correct. And your statement that organized JC has caused more harm than hard drugs is not an informed one.

The idea that religion shouldn't teach morals is ludicrous. That's religions _job_. If religion doesn't do it, SOMEONE or SOMETHING else DOES. People aren't DON'T live their lives "born free" on the african plains, with this glorious human intelligence guiding their paths independant of all outside sources. We all have our morals; it's vital for us to try to peacably, voluntarily impose our morals on the world.

I think one problem I have with discussing this crap with people is that a lot of people believe in "many truths" ; they don't neccesarily believe in absolute truth, absolute wrong and right.

Some background information

Surely this is more your parents’ job? Although idyllically when you come to be a little older, and you have the capacity to reason for yourself, you should be able to structure your own set of morals. That’s why religion, the dinosaur it is, is becoming extinct -- it refuses to adapt, to evolve, to think. It’s a brainless dictator.

Oops sorry I misread it!

ST. GEORGE, Utah — Abandoned by his family, faith and community, Gideon Barlow arrived here an orphan from another world.

At first, he played the tough guy, aloof and hard. But when no one was watching, he would cry.

The freckle-faced 17-year-old said he was left to fend for himself last year after being forced out of Colorado City, Ariz., a town about 40 miles east of here, just over the state line.

"I couldn't see how my mom would let them do what they did to me," he said.

When he tried to visit her on Mother's Day, he said, she told him to stay away. When he begged to give her a present, she said she wanted nothing.

"I am dead to her now," he said.

Gideon is one of the "Lost Boys," a group of more than 400 teenagers — some as young as 13 — who authorities in Utah and Arizona say have fled or been driven out of the polygamous enclaves of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City over the last four years.

His stated offenses: wearing short-sleeved shirts, listening to CDs and having a girlfriend. Other boys say they were booted out for going to movies, watching television and staying out past curfew.

Some say they were sometimes given as little as two hours' notice before being driven to St. George or nearby Hurricane, Utah, and left like unwanted pets along the road.

Authorities say the teens aren't really being expelled for what they watch or wear, but rather to reduce competition for women in places where men can have dozens of wives.

"It's a mathematical thing. If you are marrying all these girls to one man, what do you do with all the boys?" said Utah Atty. Gen. Mark Shurtleff, who has had boys in his office crying to see their mothers. "People have said to me: 'Why don't you prosecute the parents?' But the kids don't want their parents prosecuted; they want us to get the No. 1 bad guy — Warren Jeffs. He is chiefly responsible for kicking out these boys."

The 49-year-old Jeffs is the prophet, or leader, of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The FLDS, as it is known, controls Hildale and Colorado City.

The sect, which broke from the Mormon Church more than a century ago, has between 10,000 and 15,000 members. It believes in "plural marriage," that a man must have at least three wives to reach the highest levels of heaven. The Mormon Church forbids polygamy and excommunicates those who practice it.

Polygamy is also illegal, and in recent weeks law enforcement has turned up the heat on the FLDS.

On Friday, Jeffs was indicted in Arizona on charges that he had arranged a marriage between a 28-year-old man, who was already married, and a 16-year-old girl.

He faces two years in prison if convicted, though he hasn't been arrested and is thought to be in Texas.

Article continues at that link above...

Inbreeding among polygamists along the Arizona-Utah border is producing a caste of severely retarded and deformed children

a plastic waterfall

at the end...it seriously made me cry. Touching.

Someone tell me how Big Love is if they watch it. FLDS folx are fucked-up. I have a hard time believing real polyamory/polgamy/polyandry exists, but if it's among consenting adults, that's one thing. All these scary-ass go-nowhere towns out in BFE that are basically incest mills are creepy and evil as anything. That's FLDS polygamy. Growing up Mormon is scary enough, and sexually awkward enough, without your uncle claiming to be prophet of the whole town so all the little daughters can marry their dad's brothers at 14.

Although I must admit to thinking of Harry Reid while watching it.

MORMONS ARE JERKS

thats a stereotype

We get a lot of American Mormons on my street doing missionary work. This must be their version of being sent to the Russian Front.

apparently they send them everywhere

i mean, if you've heard that origin story about the Joseph Smith, the golden plates, and martin and lucy harris and you still think they have a valid point...

(i feel this way about all religions, but with mormons and scientology, its just a whole new lever of stupid)

If I had a big enough lever of stupid I could lift the whole Earth.

swin burning for you? wtf does that mean?

damn! level*

wtf @ u

i mean, if you've heard that origin story about the Joseph Smith, the golden plates, and martin and lucy harris and you still think they have a valid point...

waaahhhht? That is like one of the more clearly dubious parts!

do you believe Adam and Eve were from the midwest, chaki?

I don't know what the hell yr on about...are you mormon?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??
xpst

lol

He has discovered that some religions might not be very plausible.

And now we're all living in the aftermath of that discovery, minds blown, jaws agape.

bcz they are "jerks" hahahaha

chaki Mormons believe the Garden of Eden was in Missouri...I think he is thinking you share that belief because you said 'wtf' at him as he is clearly making almost no sense

honestly, im just looking for a fight...

and i think im making tons of sense. mormons are jerks.

well this is one fucking retarded attempt @ a flamewar bcz I don't think you'll find any mormons here, for real

swinburning is basing his theories on a couple of South Park episodes, conveniently forgetting that the Mormons are actually portrayed fairly positively in their twenty minutes of parker/stone treatment.

The ones I meet are polite, well turned-out young men. Or hotties.

have you met mormons new harranguey duder?

oh, i forgot, south park wrote the book of mormon...thanks for reminding me.

abbott, i was pretty sure i wouldn't find any mormons, but i was willing to give it a shot...

and there are plenty of attractive jerks of all religions

I rly think the only way you could say they are "jerks" is if you've been in the system like 10+ years and seen all the behind the scenes shit but yes they are often quite kind people

go to a fucking mormon board then, jesus

im a handsome jew

Trying to start a fight with some imaginary people you don't know because they are "jerks": C/D?

And btw flaming them won't change their mind one bit, they'll just think "poor misguided soul" and bare their testimonies over and over. V funny dude!

ARE THERE ANY ZOROASTRIANS ON HERE? WANKERS

HEY BAHA'I FUCKERS YOU ARE DISLIKED BY ME

Boy all the Snake Handlers on here sure are dumb.

lol Baha'i always seems like such a peaceful religion.

no, i know thats how they will react. one of my best friends became a born again mormon last year.

im a kind of ugly jerk agnostic who is bored

I can't stand that offshoot board, "I Love My Ecumenical Pastor."

We should start a thread about Racist Mithraists.

dude i fucking met a zoroastrian in the pub the other day NO REALLY I DID

unsurprisingly, he wasn't "practising".

Do they not do alcohol then? I mean come on, wasn't Freddie Mercury a Zoroastrian?

i was just about to ask that

Again it seems like quite a chill religion.

he was drinking alcohol. he wasn't a practising zoroastrian is what i meant to say, merely a zoroastrian by birth. much as i'm greek orthodox by christening.

they all suck too. im gonna go watch law and order SVU

Anyway LJ, if you could hook swinburnginging up he could phone this guy up and tell him that Zoroaster's a wanker or something.

Also Wanked Zarathustra

OMG LJ did they wave censers all over you?

i've got so many thetans i could probably explode their BRAINS if i wanted, them darned zoroastriologists.

You should totally grow one of those Greek Orthodox beards, dude.

Until I shaved yesterday I had a nice crop. Had to grow it for the play I was in, as I had been assigned the part of Abu Hamza.

Oh Undergradspaws.

omg you're in plays

(haha!)

(Don't worry, it was Abu Hamza as a handmaiden, by way of Frank Sinatra and Bryan Ferry. The play also featured Jeremy Beadle, Elvis Presley, and Prince Rodeo. And was very tragicomic. Not to mention good.)

damnit, i've already seen that episode. so who is a wanker? Zoroastirians?

thank god

SHHHHHH. IT'S A SURPRISE

Yeah, Chaki! I've been in, amongst other things, Greek tragedy, Shakespearian comedy, and LJ-penned romance. No, rly.

Shakespeare is cool. i like moliere too. they aren't jerks

who gives a shit about moliere??? what the fuck are you on about swinburningforyou??

swinburne for short

BAN SWIMMBUMMING4YOU

why? i've done nothing wrong, and i'll tire of this soon enough

are you a mormon W4LTER?

He stole Oilyrags' surname. ;_;

Dude I told you there are zero Mormons here, wtf.

W4lter, say yes

this is who its from

Y'know, under old ILX I could've hilariously logged in as "Norman Mormon" five minutes ago, but I'm fucked if I can be bothered to set up another googlemail account.

what a shame

practicing Zoroastrians do drink AFAIK

http://www.exmormon.org/ is great for some post-Mormon haze hilarity - especially any thread having to do with tithing and disposal of the one year supply of food. This one is great

Ok, once I went to Price Club or one of those jumbo stores with my whole Mormon boyfriend's family. So they all just started stocking up - the idea was to refill all the stuff they had used.

When they got to checkout, the bill was something like $1700. The checker looked at them and said, "Is this a Y2K thing?" His father just sorta joked, "No, not really. It's a six-kid thing."

Then they got home and were unpacking, and his mother was in the kitchen looking at this HUGE bag of pancake mix they had bought. She was sitting there counting on her fingers for a minute, then looked up, dismayed, and said, "We have enough pancake mix for over 3000 pancakes."

Later that day, she was on the phone to the customer service department for recipes that could be made with the pancake mix.

They also used to laugh at people who stored wheat. "What are they going to do? Drive back and forth over it with their car?"

My dad has a big-ass wheat grinder out in his garage so his barrels full of wheat will not have been purchased in vain.

That is a great site. :D

Study Shows Utah is Most Depressed

Utah is the most depressed state in the entire country. A nationwide study released by Mental Health America ranks Utah high in depression and low in treatment of the illness.

This study is certainly a wake-up call for Utahns and our mental health care system. It examined levels of depression in each state and outcomes for those who sought treatment.

A local psychologist says he thinks mental health counseling should be more accessible in Utah. "I think, because of the economy and what not, a lot of our local mental health programs are cutting back on their staffs for lack of money. It's sad," Dr. Wil Higashi said.

The survey claims that Utah has the highest percentage of people reporting unmet health needs. Utah ranks in the bottom 10 states for its shortage of psychiatrists and outpatient clinics. The study suggests more can be done to break down treatment barriers that are associated with high rates of depression.

Higashi also believes another reason for Utah's high depression rate is the massive involvement in structured religions. "All religions make people feel guilty if they're not performing to the teachings of their church and their religion, and that causes a lot of depression too. Guilt is a big one," he explained.

The study also links the depression rate with a lack of health insurance. Lawmakers invested $2.7 million last year to treat mentally ill Utahns who are too poor to afford health insurance but earn too much for Medicaid.

State Health Director Dr. David Sundwall says the governor is about to propose health insurance coverage for all Utahns. "I think I'd look forward to details when he gives the State of the State address. That won't be too long from now," he said.

Higashi also says, despite Utah's low rate of treatment, it's a state that has lead the nation in antidepressant use.

The study names the least depressed state as South Dakota, and it's no surprise what state comes in second: Hawaii.

Burning swine 4 U.

You cannot afford to spend your time listening to unworthy music

Mormons OTM. And the Garden of Eden was (and IS!) in Missouri. It's near Columbia. I've been there.

no one has disproven my original thesis

are people from utah really called utahns?

Rhymes with Futons.

Utahds.

Out-of-staters are Utaren'ts or Utaints.

Utahns, yeah, and some have hugely wacky names like Ammon or Birdeen (my grandma) or Ephronia (another relative).

Q. Why is Idaho so windy?

A. Because Utah sucks!

The derogatory regional slang for Utahns is "Carrot snappers."

Carrot snapper doesn't know good meat

Ryan Tannenholz must be a city boy because there are hunters who hunt for meat, which is a lot of work when you shoot 'em, dress 'em out and cut 'em up, then put 'em in the freezer.

They're a lot better meat than Tannenholz will get at McDonalds or any other places like that. As for hunters who hunt for and don't take the meat, we should hang 'em.

So I agree with Ron Gillett — get rid of the wolves. If Tannenholz likes wolves, maybe I'll shoot one and take it to his place and we can barbecue it — unless he's a carrot snapper.

i'm glad ILX is back. i can begin my assault anew. mormons suck.

NURSE

http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/nav/navoa/

these people must be stopped. god i hate romney, mormons, etc

lived in utah all my life, wouldn't want to live anywhere else. it's a beautiful place. 'utahn' sounds about right

Not much of an assault, u pretty bad at trolling.

i miss utah.

i don't really miss mormons though.

Utah is completely gorgeous and within its arbitrary boundaries is an INSANE amount of fantastic geographic diversity, from sublime mountains to George Herriman-style rockscapes. But I wasn't very happy living there.

on the other hand, i might take them over certain miracle mile residents.

i was home over thxgiving getting soup and chai at salt lake coffee roasters and a mormon double-date was standing behind me. one of the guys was talking about the sport of extreme sledding and the other guy was happily incredulous while the girls were being pleasant. they got hot chocolate and then left pretty quick. i tried to be annoyed but my heart wasn't really in it.

x-post

i would never consider living anywhere else in utah but salt lake, and only in certain parts, and maybe only in theory.

I lived in SLC and I was very bad but that could have been crippling depression.

they think the garden of eden was in missouri. until recently they officially believed black people were damned.

im sure the state of utah itself is wonderful though.

:( i was back for two weeks this summer and got pretty down. it was probably because i had nothing to do.

then there's PROVO. i went along with my family to Movies 8, the provo dollar theater, to see 'stardust.' they were showing something called "Road to Zarahemla," which i'm now morbidly curious about. 'stardust' was packed and the audience loved it. i think it's going to be the next 'princess bride' for byu coeds but with more coded messages about eternal marriage. i haven't had that much fun at the movies in a while, even if it was a little bizarre.

x-post hey you read a pandering slate article, congrats, your input is valuable

doesn't mean the article isn't true

For fucking real, strng! And those Mormon-specific comedy movies like "Singles Ward" and "Baptists at the Barbecue" are surprisingly funny. (To me.)

really, they are a punkass cult that has bent over for the US government several times and radically changed their core beliefs through incredibly convenient "revelations". I don't care how nice some of them are, on some level they are all jerks.

they think the lord's kingdom will be in missouri and they never believed black people were damned and they're a crock of shit. any other questions or are you done here? x-post

jesus, find new talking points, Mormon doctrine has 42,398 other weird fucking things.

liiiike... the ocean is satanic!

native americans are now inherently good

tell me more about the ocean being satanic

my brother's now ex-wife rented 'singles ward' one night and i sat down with them and watched that and a friends episode. in manhattan. not a fun evening.

i think i'd like it now though. i took a class from the production manager once and i probably know some of the people in it.

How abt: demonic spirits will decline to shake yr hand.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/igotabeefpastry/snakemang.gif

x-post something about satan having stewardship over the ocean and jesus getting land. and it used to be the other way around, but they traded.

(Preface: I'm not making veiled generalizations about any group, I disapprove of organized religion but am not confrontational unless the other party is. That said...)

I once had a gaggle of Mormons working with me in a restaurant once. They were all really nice, but really really REALLY dumb. Of course being in a mexican restaurant alcohol sales were (supposed to be) high, and one of them was asked what kind of Merlot we had and they responded "Chardonnay".

The best was (and I was friendly with this guy, but the wheels just weren't turning) when this one server got stung by the cops--ya know, where an undercover cop comes in with a guest who is under 21 and the guest tries to order a drink.

The dude does the SMART thing and takes the dude's driver's license..SEES the birthdate and that the kid is SIXTEEN YEARS OLD...leaves the table...AND BRINGS THE DRINK AND SETS IT DOWN IN FRONT OF HIM. Escorted out of the building in cuffs and terminated!

They used to try to preach their religion to anybody who'd listen. I always found an excuse to walk away.

KOLOB

x-post bjo otm!

Haha those stings were always GREAT at my restaurant. Suspicious dude comes in, sits down. The kid would come in two minutes later, obviously Mormon and clearly not know what the hell abt drinks. "Uh, yeah, can I get a plain beer? To go?" *bartender sighs* "Let me see your ID." Kid denied, cop leaves 2 minutes later. CLASSIC.

yea you'd think they'd never work but two people at least in my duration in restaurants got canned for it.

BTW I JUST SAW 'ORGAZMO' DOES THAT MEAN I HAVE HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD

plain beer! Hahahaha!

serves the cops right. Stings (at least that kind) are the stupidest thing on the planet.

"Say, we haven't received enough money in misdemeanor fines this month...you know the drill."

one of the guys was talking about the sport of extreme sledding and the other guy was happily incredulous while the girls were being pleasant. they got hot

You should have just ended here.

Logan, Utah, is a splendid place for the views. Odd people, though.

i went to SLC last winter for skiing with we went to a "private club" one night. my membership card was a post-it note with a check mark.

not mormon but utah-related. and very funny to me.

All the bars are "private clubs for members," it's the only way they can serve liquor.

When I first started listening to the radio there, all the ads for bars ended with "a private club for members," as did all the newspaper ads. "What a pompous fucking town," I thought. BEFORE I KNEW THE SHOCKING TRUTH.

i know, but it's still shocking! i went with about ten other people, and i was the only one who needed a membership card. or maybe because everybody else was at least 20 years older and it was an id card to verify my age. whatever it was, the guy made it with a post-it note and a ballpoint pen.

lol xp

beautiful land, though. too bad SLC is so ugly unless you look up.

really, they are a punkass cult that has bent over for the US government several times and radically changed their core beliefs through incredibly convenient "revelations". I don't care how nice some of them are, on some level they are all jerks.

How are they different from any other religious fundies in this sense though? Except that their religion was founded a bit later than most others.

yeah, the private club thing is pretty annoying and is sort of arbitrarily enforced. technically, the doorman/bartenders/club employees can 'sponsor' anyone they want and get them in the club w/o making them pay for a year-long membership - but it varies by bar and doorman.

strgn is OTM about SLC being the best place to live here. as for mormons, they can be both very generous/helpful and also very exclusive. i grew up mormon and most of my friends growing up were not mormon, but i also knew kids who weren't allowed to play w/ 'non-members'. which is lame, but there are paranoid people of all types.

as a kid, I was all buddy-buddy with several other mormon kids cuz we were all outcasts/misfits from the mainstream culture. It wasn't until midway through high school (and a visit to the mormon tabernacle/SLC) that I was all like "lolz mormon underwear" etc

(should be "as a JEWISH kid")

magical jewish underwear?

e.g. boxer-briefs?

Dear 6335, are you still Mormon? I grew up in it and no longer am in it. My parents wouldn't let me hang out with non-Mormons or fat Mormons. !!!

i stopped attending about 11-12 years ago, but technically, yeah! i never had my name removed from the records. why the ban on fat mormons?

when I was a kid all the adult mormon adult women I knew were fat moms with short hair. I thought it was just how they were.

http://www.matchflick.com/flickimages/13278.jpg

haha i was going to make a list of 'bad mormon' movies i never saw, but i could only remember two and elvis telecom got the second (first was ORGAZMO of course)

no first is Napoleon Dynamite

(well its the number 1 bad mormon movie on my list anyway)

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/igotabeefpastry/snakemang.gif

Mormons invented TROGDOR THE BURNINATOR!

http://www.gamesoc.org/images/trogdor.gif

my father-in-law is mormon and he rocks.

is he a jackrabbit mormon?

The man brags about the fact that coffee has never touched his lips.

Beefeater Gin has, though.

A Mormon speaks!

fwiw napoleon dynamite is pretty much the opposite of a bad mormon movie.

i wonder what gordon b. and mitt romney fantasize about over casserole

celestial virgins of kolob

I see no problem with that answer

Dude he said something like "I am not a Mormon running for president, I'm a man running for president who was born a Mormon."

OOOOOOoooo that's gonna lose points with the Mormons! I mean, I could say that! Korihor could say that! That kinda distancing is crepey somehow, god, bcz if there's anything I know abt Mormons is if you don't wear your membership on your sleeve they will get SHIFTY-EYED SUSPICIOUS of that member.

Haven't read the whole thread so maybe it's been mentioned but if it hasn't, have a read at this and watch the video http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/

and the comments http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2007/12/unchristian_behaviour.html#commentsanchor

A British (Catholic) academic friend recently blogged:

Mormonism is (apart from the anti-Gay bit) a really NICE religion. It encourages group solidarity; it does NOT condemn all non-Mormons to hell (just a less nice heaven); Mormon architecture is on the edge of the camp and inspiration, but it is pretty great over all. Despite all this, I think Joseph Smith was a fraud from upstate New York. Why don't I think this about all founders of religions?

Mormonism is (apart from the anti-Gay bit) a really NICE religion. It encourages group solidarity; it does NOT condemn all non-Mormons to hell (just a less nice heaven);

See though that would be worse for me. Being teased with something "good" when I could have achieved something "great" messes with my competitive nature.

Reviving because the typical cult-standoff story has mushroomed into a, well, HFS story

More than 400 children, mostly girls in pioneer dresses, were swept into state custody from a polygamist sect in what authorities described Monday as the largest child-welfare operation in Texas history.

The dayslong raid on the sprawling compound built by now-jailed polygamist leader Warren Jeffs was sparked by a 16-year-old girl's call to authorities that she was being abused and that girls as young as 14 and 15 were being forced into marriages with much older men.

Dressed in home-sewn, ankle-length dresses with their hair pinned up in braids, some 133 women left the Yearning for Zion Ranch of their own volition along with the children.

State troopers were holding an unknown number of men in the compound until investigators finished executing a house-to-house search of the 1,700-acre property, which includes a medical facility, numerous large housing units and an 80-foot white limestone temple that rises discordantly out of the brown scrub.

"In my opinion, this is the largest endeavor we've ever been involved in in the state of Texas," said Children's Protective Services spokesman Marleigh Meisner, who said she was also involved in the 1993 siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco.

The members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints spent their days raising numerous children, tilling small gardens and doing chores. But at least one former resident says life was not some idyllic replica of 19th-century life.

"Once you go into the compound, you don't ever leave it," said Carolyn Jessop, one of the wives of the alleged leader of the Eldorado complex. Jessop left with her eight children before the sect moved to Texas.
Jessop said the community emphasized self-sufficiency because they believed the apocalypse was near.

BY-PRODUCTS OF MORMON CULTURE

http://m1.2mdn.net/1563414/10019_40181_300x250.gif

i have found a planet full of Mormon babez

I had questions no one would answer SAD FACE

Gov't should tax these fuckers. And the Scientologists.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11487214&cm_mmc=BCEmail_Sept2010Mailer-_-Focus-_-83-_-ShelfRelianceTHRIVE

Holy wow.

haha, I love freeze dried fruit so much. I don't think I'd want to survive the apocalypse on four different flavors of TVP.

This whole thing is weird because they have Mormon canneries where you can buy this stuff or go put your own cheap rice and dried fruit in cans.

http://providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,7636-1-4104-1,00.html

Okay, this actually DOES look like a bowl of soil.

http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/426464LL_v1.jpg

More useful for cost comparison: here are the prices to buy stuff from the Mormon church: http://providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,8133-1-4352-1,00.html

I just get the feeling this is cheaper than what Costco's offering. OTOH they don't have freeze dried fruit. How can you pretend you're ruining everyone's Strawberry Special K by stealing all the freeze dried strawberries, if you just get stuff from this order form?

Thrive, more like Hive, amirite?

Jeffs = life in prison

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17036046

The Mormon Church has apologised for posthumously baptising the parents of Nazi-hunter Simon Wiesenthal.

Asher and Rosa Rapp Wiesenthal were baptised in proxy ceremonies by church members in the US states of Arizona and Utah in January, records show.

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spokesman Michael Purdy said the Church' s leaders "sincerely regret" the actions of "an individual member".

The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center denounced the news.

"We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon temples," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, a spokesman at the centre.

The Mormon religion allows baptism after death, and believes the departed soul can then accept or reject the baptismal rites.

An agreement in 1995 was supposed to ban the practice of baptising by proxy Holocaust victims, after it was discovered the names of hundreds of thousands of those who died had been entered into Mormon records.

Simon Wiesenthal's parents are long since deceased, with his father dying in World War I and his mother perishing in the Holocaust.

Wiesenthal himself died in 2005 after surviving the Holocaust and dedicating his life to documenting Nazi crimes and hunting down perpetrators.
'Serious breach'

Mr Purdy told the Associated Press news agency that the church considered the act "a serious breach of our protocol".

According to Mr Purdy, the names of the Wiesenthal family were simply entered into a genealogical database by one person.

"We have suspended indefinitely this person's ability to access our genealogy records," he said.

The name of that individual or the individuals who performed the rite were not released.

Evidence that Wiesenthal's parents had been baptised was found by Helen Radkey, a researcher and former Mormon, AP reported.

She regularly checks the Church' s database, and also recently found the names of Nobel laureate and Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel and several family members on the Mormon list.

"None of the three names were submitted for baptism and they would not have been under the Church' s guidelines and procedures," said Mr Purdy, the Mormon Church spokesman said.

Rabbi Cooper said any further discussion of the problem was useless.

"The only way such insensitive practices would finally stop is if church leaders finally decided to change their practices and policies on posthumous baptisms, a move which this latest outrage proves that they are unwilling to do," he said.

The Catholic Church has also objected to posthumous baptisms of its members.

I had no idea they did this. It's seriously fucked up.

Baptisms for the dead, or specifically for Holocaust victims?

this is a very well-known practice of the church fwiw, people have been complaining about it for decades

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdiZOsHOG6o

the, uh, epistemological, metaphysical, and theological questions around how non-co-religionists could feel aggrieved by mormons baptizing their relatives seem... subtle.

abbott - either!

the, uh, epistemological, metaphysical, and theological questions around how non-co-religionists could feel aggrieved by mormons baptizing their relatives seem... subtle.

really? a major religion (with its own presidential candidate and everything) is going through the ancestries of jewish families and claiming to convert and purify the souls of the dead so they can finally get into real heaven. i'm entirely unsurprised that people are outraged by this, and not just the descendents of the deceased. it's more a question of basic respect than of whether or not you believe mormons have magical post-mortem baptism powers.

right, ethically, it seems pretty obviously bad (to the point that anyone doing it would have huge reservations, you would think). but if you're not mormon, then... do you think it could work somehow? and if you don't, then couldn't it also seem silly rather than offensive?

let's not overlook the fact that it's a deliberate attempt to obscures/obfuscates actual family histories and increase the rolls of people that the church can claim to be Mormon.

this could all be used against Romney, right?

not really. this is a pretty well-worn grudge topic against the Mormons, it's not like this is anything new or that Romney's even involved

oh yeah, it seems silly to me, but i can see as how others would be infuriated. never underestimate the ability of people to take offense.

re: j

i wonder if any of the souls ever decline to be baptized.

They do temple marriages for the dead by proxy, too, but I don't think it's as on big of a scale. It's what my parents do on vacation!

yeah but when you're running for chance to run as republican candidate , where a lot of voters are evangelical christians, his enemies will stop at nothing to smear him, right? Tie him in with it and he could lose votes. Thats how politics works right?

not really. this is a pretty well-worn grudge topic against the Mormons, it's not like this is anything new or that Romney's even involved

i dunno. suspect that a lot of american voters know next to nothing abt mormonism. and lots of conservative voters are deeply religious. could see some uproar among the base at the idea that romney's minions might have secretly rebaptised the corpse of grampa joe.

i wonder if any of the souls ever decline to be baptized.

This was always my question –– I did hundreds of baptisms for the dead as a teeen. They have the option to decline, but if you're in this clearly Mormon construction of the afterlife, why would you choose to? Or do other faiths have recruiting efforts in Spirit Paradise (as they call it)? Never got an answer.

there should probably be an anti-romney scare site about this, tbh. "how mormons are trying to steal the souls of the christian dead" or somesuch, implying that your loved ones could be next.

pretty sure Romney had his atheist father-in-law baptized posthumously

suspect that a lot of american voters know next to nothing abt mormonism. and lots of conservative voters are deeply religious.

deeply religious conservative voters know PLENTY about the Mormon church, including (most likely) their penchant for posthumous baptisms, and the majority of these deeply religious conservative voters already have concluded that a) Mormons are not Christians and b) how that will impact their vote. This particular instance is not news to anybody in the American electorate, and will not make waves.

xp

xxpost it's only fair imo. i mean christ can you imagine if the shoe were on the other foot

catholics'l' take you right up to the actual time of death but tbh once you're gone you're gone

you've got a lot more faith in the depth of religious education enjoyed by most americans than i do, shakey...

this is seriously not news to anyone who follows Christian theology in America. GOP Xtian primary voters have already made up their minds as to how they feel about Romney and his Mormonism - some will undoubtedly refuse to vote for him and that will be one of the reasons, others will find plenty of other reasons not to vote for him. And some will vote for him anyway and say it doesn't matter.

xp

re: abbott

well, sure, your own planet sounds awesome, but people are always declining salvation in all the other religions too. i guess if they never built 'finding out whether the soul really wants it' into the baptism ceremonies then the default answer is, no, they don't really concern themselves with that possibility.

i'm imagining, like, a ceremony where you wait to see if a light goes on. or a candle burns out.

hey if it's good enough to choose a pope........

you've got a lot more faith in the depth of religious education enjoyed by most americans than i do, shakey...

lol do you know what the biggest show on Broadway is this year? Do you know how much American evangelicals have had to say about the Mormon church over the years? Do you know how many Mormons are out there proselytizing about their religion to the general public on a daily basis? gimme a break.

if even a small percentage of conservative/independent voters were repelled by this, it could make a huge difference in romney's chances overall. liberal and anti-romney religious leaders are seriously dropping the ball if they don't try to manufacture a big OUTRAGE! over this. libs get a pass, of course, if they'd rather see romney in the general...

if geo. lucas CGI'd your dead ancestor into phantom menace, there'd probably be some legal recourse, but would there really be any in this case? I suspect a lot of the offense is amplified by there being no other deterrent.

no one will manufacture a big outrage over this because it is not news.

also directly impugning anyone's religion is reaaaaaallly treacherous territory politically - which is why, so far, most of the evangelicals who actively hate Mormons and don't consider them Christians have, for the most part, kept quiet about this small bigotry. Romney has plenty of other liabilities ripe for exploitation, no need to lay any landmines re: his religion.

Do you know how many Mormons are out there proselytizing about their religion to the general public on a daily basis? gimme a break.

i bet one in five americans don't really know how an internal combustion engine works. i bet a substantial number don't know anything about catholic or mormon doctrine. whether or not such people vote is a fair question, but i don't see any reason to throw away an opportunity to foment OUTRAGE! against romney and the creepy cult from which he sprang. if obama's church were doing something similar, would conservatives seize upon it and make a big stinking deal about it? hell yeah they would.

why isn't anyone trying to tear David Archuleta's career into shreds over this, I ask

there's probably nutters on fox news comments doing exactly what shakey says wont happen, and on other websites. These guys will go loooooow as they can to get their message out.

here's a piece from SEVEN YEARS AGO detailing evangelicals well-established antipathy towards Mormons

xp

if obama's church were doing something similar, would conservatives seize upon it and make a big stinking deal about it? hell yeah they would.

damn right

was that card ever played against Harry Reid?

you guys are missing my central point, that the people who would use this against Romney have already known about this notorious practice of the Mormon church for decades. it is not a new angle to exploit against him. and they have plenty of other weapons in their arsenal that don't have the propensity to backfire like attacking his religion does.

xp

was that card ever played against Harry Reid?

in Nevada? hell no.

suspect that conservatives don't wanna go after romney on this soley because he's on their side. only an idiot takes shots at his/her own team. if romney were a democrat, however, i bed we'd be hearing a LOT about it. maybe not from mainstream sources with respectability cred, but definitely from the "fringe", from the designated "not-mainstream" voices.

Ha, the other way around, Mormons hate that Reid is repub: "Several Republican Mormons in Utah have contested his faith because of his politics, such as his statements that the church's backing of California's Proposition 8 wasted resources."

not repub, dem
blurf

high-minded liberal refusal to take the obvious shots often confuses me. no one has to demonize mormonism or mormons. if powerful jewish voices were raised in protest of this specific practice, and if powerful christian and democratic voices echoed the cry, then i could see this becoming an effective tool against romney (and against the mormon church in general). maybe best saved for the general, i dunno...

the general assholes

ah, and maybe i'm wrong. maybe it would come across as cheap, underhanded religion-bashing no matter what. was just a thought...

IDK it doesn't seem that weird TO ME

bigger scandal could be: does romney tithe based on total revenue or income from speaking fees only?

yeah net or gross income tithe, Romney>?

Obama's mother posthumously baptized into LDS Church

Obama: SECRET MORMON

they stole his dead mother.....now he wants her back (liam neeson as b obama)

if romney were a democrat, however, i bed we'd be hearing a LOT about it.

no. No one has attacked Reid for simply BEING a Mormon.

This is not a story. No one in the US reads the Guardian, this story won't even get reported in the American press, much less exploited by anyone for political gain.

lol do you know what the biggest show on Broadway is this year

If there's one thing deeply conservative religious Americans love, it's Broadway.

could someone tell me if shakey thinks this is an important news story? thx

Basically I just want some reporter to ask Romney about if he's wearing magic underwear right now for the ensuing lulz.

Yes. Yes, he is.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/14/article-2100995-11BCBB68000005DC-11_468x330.jpg

As someone who will likely be baptized posthumously into the Mormon church, I just look at it this way: in the afterlife, I'll open up my wallet and there'll be an LDS card. And much like the expired Books-A-Million card I have in my wallet now, I'll go "the fuck is this, I'm never going to use this!" on occasion before sticking it back in there with my other cards because, let's face it, sometimes I'm on the toilet and need something, anything to read.

no. No one has attacked Reid for simply BEING a Mormon.

yeah, but nevada is a heavily mormon state. wouldn't make political sense to anger mormons in nevada, so reid's always been safe on that score. anyway, i'm not talking about directly attacking romney. i'm talking about subtly encouraging sympathetic jewish and catholic religious leaders to make a big, bloody ISSUE of the post-mortem baptism of holocaust victims and the like, enough to bring it into the news cycle. then the fringier, angrier, "grassroots" elements of the democratic base could run with it like a pack of maniacs - the way the tea partiers ran with obama's birth certificate and the swift boaters ran with gore's war record - all while the "respectable" dem leadership remained above the fray. dirty pool, in other words.

real problem, i suppose, is that the dem base isn't terribly upset by the practice, and don't do outrage for sport. they seem averse to moral outrage on general principle, tbh. so they won't seize on the story organically, and any attempt to conjure up the appearance of a "controversy" without corresponding public anger would probably backfire. ah, well. it was a fine dream...

Obama's mother posthumously baptized into LDS Church

Not only Obama's mother, but Simon Wiesenthal's parents as well

And we've come circle.

Which usually doesn't happen in LDS since everything is for eternity.

haha I should have looked at the whole thread

lol

http://www.lds.org/images/Magazines/NewEra/Archive/neweralp.nfo:o:148b.jpg

omg @ "mormonad"

Yah Mormonads

http://www.lds.org/images/Magazines/NewEra/Archive/neweralp.nfo:o:f2f.jpg

http://www.lds.org/images/Magazines/NewEra/Archive/neweralp.nfo:o:59.jpg

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http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ykeKGjX7mBg/Tw5Qsw25TAI/AAAAAAAAAr4/1oKRH27eXQM/s1600/MormonAd+Winners.jpg

CHOOSE THE MOST MORMON DRESS

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otm about white-boy slap bass, at least

lol THIS one I can get behind:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iAD82Dlk9GA/Sbhc_-Gc2tI/AAAAAAAABJU/F33pM0cKZpk/s320/Text+Messaging.jpg

Don't text on a date, you dummy!
Heavenly Father is on my side when it comes to phone etiquette.

CELL PHONES ARE KILLING OREM MALT CULTURE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUmuisDK11c&feature=player_embedded#!

WHAT WILL WE DO WITHOUT LEATHERBYS

Why would you ignore an ice cream sundae?

That's a parfait, get your head in the game!

Went to a v cute and snowy little ice cream shop like that when I went to visit my family. My sister, her husband, and I ended up having loud ~~~ice cream drama~~~ over whether gay people should be able to marry, so maybe the insular and stupid world of texting has its malty place.

http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/

The best thing about that site is how Mormony all the Mormon names are, it's like hanging out in the Tooele cemetery.

I've already converted several Romneys, just by chance.

I would happily accept a gay card for my after-life wallet, if it helps me any.

CELL PHONES ARE KILLING OREM MALT CULTURE
CELL PHONES ARE KILLING OREM MALT CULTURE
CELL PHONES ARE KILLING OREM MALT CULTURE
CELL PHONES ARE KILLING OREM MALT CULTURE
CELL PHONES ARE KILLING OREM MALT CULTURE

hahahahahah!!!!

so many flavors - this was one thing my ex-mormon ex-bf still shares with the religion he was brought up in. He gets super disappointed and a bit snobby tbh when a place that has milkshakes has only 3 or 4 flavors. His 2nd brother is even worse, and would go to Denny's and insist on a blueberry cobbler milkshake, and get irate when the Denny's employee would not indulge him by mixing the vanilla milkshake with a piece of blueberry pie. Pretty sure he's given places bad yelp reviews for not doing this.

There is a definite bittersweetness for ex-Mormons, at death, when their family members have a funeral or post death announcements, etc. Someone from my hometown was murdered recently. Total hard punk rock gal, didn't know her too well except from seeing her at local shows at the bar where old Mexicans hung out. So there's the death announcement, picture of her in lime green eyeshadow and Horus eyeliner and a bondage top, with the message that she's returned to the loving embrace of her Heavenly Father. Probably hasn't been in a church since she was a teenager. Shit is just weird.

Or when another punk friend died maybe 10 years ago. His dad was a Mormon state senator and none of his friends (eg me) were allowed to go to the funeral because we'd "send the wrong impression."

i guess this would be the right place for this...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/10/cat-buried-in-cement-sent-as-warning-from-polygamist-church2/

what i found *most* shocking is this has happened before and the authorities couldn't be bothered to look into it?!

So my brother-in-law, who went on a mission to Minneapolis, was telling me they market a special "missionary friendly" bike called THE LIAHONA:

http://www.themissionarydepot.com/shop/bicycles/liahona-missionary-bike-package-1-liahona-27-speed-bike-with-disc-brake/

He loved that it was called the Liahona because he could make jokes all the time whenever they got lost – "Sorry I couldn't get it to go the right direction."

Mpls has a rep as a bike friendly town but his mission president made them wear full suits in the summer on their bikes, which has to be hell no matter how nice your bike paths are. He admitted the first ten days on bike in suits were a painful challenge to adjust to.

He also served in Prince's area – I was like 'omg did you knock on the door of Prince's mansion." He said no, but that one of Prince's neighbors was an inactive member (meaning her name was on the records but she quite participating), so they visited her a lot to cajole her to attend church. She said one day that Prince had visited HER door as a JW missionary, and she went head-to-head with him on Bible precepts for two hours.

!!!!

dunno if this ever got posted here: extreme mormons. (full segment on the subject of mormon movies here.)

http://www.themissionarydepot.com/shop/microfiber/microfiber-tie-style-40/
"Microfiber ties are a blend of polyester and polyamide and they are durable as well as stain resistant. Just what every Missionary needs. - See more at: http://www.themissionarydepot.com/shop/microfiber/microfiber-tie-style-40/#sthash.YbfDK7fj.dpuf";

not a bad tie for $8!

This may sound flip, but it is really, really not: nothing prepared me for North Korea so much as having lived in Utah.

OK I should amend that to say that visiting the Kims Il Sung and Jong Il would have been a lot more strange had it not been for my years of Mormon proximity.

er they were lying in state. never hung with them personally. that really would have been something.

quincie, can you explicate?

Yeah I'm sorry, that was not well put. Mormonism is not a repressive communist dictatorship! I should have been a better job saying what I mean.

What I mainly mean is:
1) visiting the Kumsusan Palace of the Sun, where the first two Kims lie in state, had a lot of similarities to visiting the Temple in SLC. Which I didn't get to visit, obv, because I am a non-Mormon! But I have gone to multiple temple visitors centers, and my parents and I talked a lot about their visit to a per-commissioned (<<<not proper terminology, I think) temple; they toured the whole thing before it was officially a Temple open only to Mormons in good standing. Anyhow, the whole thing--from the architecture to the interior and exterior decor to the artwork hanging inside to the formal and reverent atmosphere to the "OMG what the hell is this" attitude of outsiders (i.e., us)--the only touchpoint I had was my experience with the Mormon church as a non-Mormon in Orem, Utah.

OK and 2) the isolation/insulation from outside culture. This was so huge, bigger than I even expected, in North Korea. Obviously, mainstream Mormons are not in anywhere near the same situation. But I lived in small-town Utah before the internet, and the situation was. . . a little bit similar in some ways. I'm sure it is different now. But the norms of "outside" were not well-integrated into small-town Mormon Utah in the mid-80s. And, as of five or seven years ago, very much not integrated into FLDS communities such as Colorado City, AZ. That was the place in the U.S. that most closely resembled NK ime.

Ha, I srsly predicted you were going to say NK people were really into storing grain.

Which you didn't; my prediction was wrong.

xxpost hahah no, I don't think they have the luxury of storing much anything. But living in Utah had a PROFOUND affect on my parents' food-buying, which continues TO THIS DAY. Actually, I'm visiting them now and was just directed to the "food storage" pantry they have in their garage. They go into that stuff waaaaaaay before the advent of Costco, etc, why b/c Utah!

Did I make any sense there? I really don't feel superior or dismissive about either Mormonism or NK! Just not communicating very well, because both experiences were really whoa.

nope, that makes a lot of sense.

Oh you made total sense and you never came off as dismissive about either! I was just curious!

There are million reasons why I would love to go to NK with you, Crabbits, but your Mormon background would just make it soooooo o_O I just know it! Juche philosophy may seem pretty distant from Mormonism, but the cultural values have a lot of similarities. In a lot of good ways, and some. . . not so good (see: insularity, anti-feminism, etc.)

Plus someone who was fucked up on drugs grabbed me by the arm the other night and insisted that I agree with her that I AM KOREAN. It's a sign!

I imagine that North Korea is srsly the Last Frontier for Mormon missionaries! Holy shit I don't even know how that would go down; not well, I suspect.

They are so dying to get there because there's a prophecy that says the second coming of Christ won't happen until missionaries can teach in every part of the world.

I think they could really give a fuck about the North Koreans .

Well I mean I think it would be more helpful for Mormons rather than Rodman to get in with Kim Jong Un.

So this is an interesting question (which I shall google): Where *aren't* Mormon missionaries?

Vatican City?

Countries where LDS Church missionaries have not preached

I could have sworn I saw Mormon missionaries (they are easy to ID) in Shanghai, but maybe I am blurring that with Taiwan memories.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/us/its-official-mormon-founder-had-up-to-40-wives.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

The essay on “plural marriage” in the early days of the Mormon movement in Ohio and Illinois says polygamy was commanded by God, revealed to Smith and accepted by him and his followers only very reluctantly.

hahahaha

"wait, what? you want me to have sex with all the womens? well, gee, I don't know... you're the boss I guess"

This is from Doctrine and Covenants.. basically the 'bitch be cool about polygamy' passage imo

51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundred-fold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds.

56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.

http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in-utah-and-one-neuroscientist-thinks-he-knows-why

oh ffs

To those who analyze violent death data, it's known as the "suicide belt."

ime using a belt for suicide is setting yourself up for failure
do better, rocky mountain west

it's clickbait garbage science. any remotely responsible hypothesis-making in this direction has huge sampling issues unless you can somehow get this kind of data for basically the entire world. idk how blind you have to be to think 'altitude' before 'shared culture' as an indicator for suicide rates in the u.s.

meanwhile return missionary roommate can't stop yammering on about the church. i forget that this is such an issue for these poor souls who leave the flock, i know because i was one, but i just want them to get over it sooner for the good of themselves and everyone else. i get really annoyed these days by "ex-mormons", they are the worst and can't discuss anything except how much they fucking love science or w/e.

i'm bored and frustrated, time to find something to do.

listen to techno imo

man if i lived somewhere i could hear a decent set on the weekends

but i mean, good idea.

Feds fine Mormon church for illicitly hiding $32 billion investment fund behind shell companies
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/mormon-church-multibillion-investment-fund-sec-settlement-rcna71603