Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

Fuck this guy and everything he stands for. Fuck him for making me feel uncomfortable in every community. Fuck him for everyone who is going to die and be lost in the inevitable backwash.

Let us keep track of the low points and the victories; let's find some small support from our own community and for god's sake let's be kind. I grew up in the Reagan '80's. I imagine this is gonna be worse. Let us be kind but let us be vigilant. Let us stand up and work harder.

i'm feeling pumped up to fight back today.

it's a wonder what sleep can do

at least for this gay man of color

thx for kicking off.

every day feels so weirdly dissociative right now.

i hope in orbit will hang out in this thread because i feel like she's already got the hang of some things I'm gonna need to learn in re doing things that matter in BK.

Campus police at San Diego State University are looking for two suspects who allegedly made comments about President-elect Donald Trump and Muslims before stealing a student's belongings and possibly her car.

In a safety alert sent to students and staff, police said they're investigating the incident as a hate crime. In a statement, President Elliot Hirshman disclosed the woman is, in fact, Muslim and was wearing a hijab.

Police say the student was walking to her car in parking structure 12 around 2:30 p.m. when two males made what police believe was an anti-Muslim comment and grabbed her purse and backpack. "They removed her car keys before fleeing the area," the report says. "The victim left the area to contact to police. When police arrived on scene, her vehicle was missing. She was uninjured."

Hirshman said the university is "pursuing all possible measures to apprehend the suspects." One is described as a 5-foot-9-inch white male with blond or brown hair and light eyes wearing a white t-shirt and jeans. The second is described as a 6-foot-2-inch Hispanic male with dark hair wearing a gray hoodie and dark pants.

"We condemn this hateful act and urge all members of our community to join us in condemning such hateful acts," Hirshman said in a statement. "Hate crimes are destructive to the spirit of our campus and we urge all members of our community to stand together in rejecting hate."

honestly the first crushing low to navigate will also be one of the most florid -- his assemblage of what will surely be one of the most grotesque cabainets since the Mutter Museum

xpost jfc!

small things i did:
-donated to ACLU
-joined Democratic Socialists of America
-made it through desperately sad third day at new job at an org that will be targeted hardcore
-got a good night's sleep

we can do this

Some good stuff in this series of tweets - white Midwesterners need to understand the "coastal elites" just as much as vice versa.
https://twitter.com/pwthornton/status/796355506759671808

I gave to a bunch of minority protection and legal defense charities yesterday, set up a monthly donation to Planned Parenthood and contacted them about becoming a volunteer.

i'm feeling pumped up to fight back today.

― global tetrahedron, Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:04 AM

OTM!!

connecting with people is good. laying off the internet/twitter/facebook

one thing I want to do to augment my cognitive equipment for what's coming is read something good and unflinching about Berlusconism in Italy. Can anyone recommend any book on that subject

I plan to rely on this thread for news for the forseeable future. Trying to make a clean break with Twitter and cable news for as long as humanly possible. My wife put on Maddow last night but at least she was covering the protests. I'm 100% done with all this "What are the optics?" type bullshit though.

I plan to rely on this thread for news for the forseeable future. Trying to make a clean break with Twitter and cable news for as long as humanly possible. My wife put on Maddow last night but at least she was covering the protests. I'm 100% done with all this "What are the optics?" type bullshit though.

― evol j, Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:16 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I had this setup to do before the election but it's particularly intense now: i'm serving lunch to holocaust survivors at 1 today. I will also be trying to have some real conversations and asking for wisdom. will report back.

Called up my Trump supporting friend last night and tried to heal the divide between us. Going forward with love in the heart. Best wishes to you all.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-donald-trumps-tax-plan/full

that kind of humanity is the spirit we need xp

Collapse the current seven tax brackets, which range from 10 to 39.6 percent, into three brackets of 10, 20, and 25percent.

Three fucking brackets? Are you KIDDING ME?

it's a wonder what sleep can do

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:05 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

at least for this gay man of color

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:05 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea i feel better today too. yesterday was .... awful. desperate. i still feel so angry and defeated about this though.

Cookeville transgender veteran's truck painted 'Trump,' lit on fire

btw:

Russian government officials had contacts with members of Donald Trump’s campaign team, a senior Russian diplomat said Thursday, in a disclosure that could reopen scrutiny over the Kremlin’s role in the president-elect’s bitter race against Hillary Clinton....

[snip]

.“Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Rybakov said. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”

“We have just begun to consider ways of building dialogue with the future Donald Trump administration and channels we will be using for those purposes,” Ryabkov was quoted as saying.

There were no further details given on the claimed contacts, including names in the Trump campaign or other specifics.

Serious q: what's the worst thing that could happen with detente with Russia? In a realpolitik way not moral way.

Ask some Latvians et al.

Realignment toward Russia is the least disconcerting thing to me. Putin is no worse than plenty of foreign leaders we make nice with.

Our student media editor in chief wrote this. I don't often post their work but I got a lump in my throat.I watched Clinton's concession speech w/her, a black female student. She was crying. When I asked what was wrong she said, "Do you know what it's like to be a woman and not being able to show emotion, to not cry because if you do you'll get dismissed with, 'Well, you're a woman'?"

so is it true that the Dow is actually up today?

really feeling thankful for these threads b/c I just cannot handle TV in any way right now

Letting Russia do whatever they want in Syria, and some of Europe?

one thing I want to do to augment my cognitive equipment for what's coming is read something good and unflinching about Berlusconism in Italy. Can anyone recommend any book on that subject

― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon)

Haven't read it yet myself, but reviews have led me to Paul Ginsborg's Silvio Berlusconi: Television, Power and Patrimony (2004). Looks promising, and I'll be picking it up at the library today.

thank you!

A good corrective here to some of the postelection handwringing.

https://twitter.com/pwthornton/status/796356934643437569

I just posted it on a bud's wall.

I posted that on the other thread too, I think. I definitely read and retweeted, since it's so similar to my own experience as a rural Ohioan. (I went to a 100% white high school, after spending my entire life prior to 6th grade in integrated schools as an Army brat, so it was quite shocking to me.)

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/texas-state-university-police-looking-into-trump-vigilante-fliers/jhWSmmhNxxuTXZaQJiYhNI/

"Now that our man Trump is elected and Republicans own both the Senate and the House -- time to organize tar & feather vigilante squads and go arrest and torture those deviant university leaders spouting off all this diversity garbage," at least one of the fliers reads, according to a photo that the university community is sharing.

: |

My sister moved from Chicago area to rural Wisoconsin. Hanging in Lake Wisco one day, a local says to me "Isn't this just gorgeous? This is the most beautiful place in the country!". Mainly to make conversation, I asked where else she'd been, what other parts of the country had she seen. "Oh I haven't really left the state much. Been to Florida a couple of times". She was in her 50s! Same story with most of the other locals I met or heard about: basically had only been to Florida or the "WHOOO PARTY!!" parts of Mexico (both are locales where they are assured to be around a ton of other tourists very similar to themselves!)

I'm here, lurking! And just trying to live. My job takes an enormous emotional toll (and has some nontraditional/extra hours) so I can't do as much community work as I would like to, or activism or campaigning either b/c I can't risk arrest anymore. But I will be thrilled to talk about anything you want!

i grew up only an hour outside of chicago (mchenry co) and tbh never really interacted with anyone who wasn't white. it's a pretty red county, or it was. not sure about now. but racism as a "thing" was there. my best friend in kindergarten tried and failed to start a local chapter of the KKK (he managed to get two other members.) after i left that school and ended up in rockford, it was a whole new world. and i mean that's just 30 miles down a country road. but there are people even just outside major cities, or diverse cities, who since they don't interact on a day to day basis with people unlike them, only view them through the lens of the media. and as the media has become more specifically targeted and as you can pick and choose very specific viewpoints about groups of people you've never met, you're going to get an even more poisoned mind than you would have a couple decades ago.

I just posted this to the last, miserable election thread, but I probably should have posted it here:

Okay yeah, so, it's important to recognize that it is not unprecedented to have Republicans in both houses, with a dipshit Republican president rubber-stamping things, and the Bush era WAS awful and 2004 WAS until yesterday the worst post-election morning of my lifetime. The big difference to me is the emergence of the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus types during the Obama administration. All their feuding with Boehner/Ryan goes away without a Democratic president they're trying to strategize around, and you're left with a huge swath of dipshit Republicans for roll-call votes, and leadership cadres that are now MUCH further right than they were in the Clinton and W eras. It's going to be rubber-stamping of absolutely demonic shit, the kind of draconian nightmare Republican government we've all been fearing for a long time unless some of them break ranks (doubtful) or that trying to gut Social Security along with the rest of the federal government just takes so long that a really well-organized opposition can make gains back in the midterms (yeah right).

And in the meantime, Trump is following Reagan in appointing to his cabinet and all the executive agencies people who are either his corrupt and incompetent old real estate crony friends, or right-wing true believers who are also sycophants good at making him feel smart, and whose main goal in running these agencies is to make them nonfunctional. That's terrifying whether it's an Anne Gorsuch type at the EPA in the face of climate-change disaster, or fucking Rudy Giuliani controlling the Justice Department and rolling back even the baby steps towards investigating police departments and trying to prosecute brutality cases. And a million other things.

i like to think that during the years i was surrounded only by white people that i wasn't particularly awful and i don't think i was, but i was certainly still ignorant. it's a good thing i always liked exploring music and film from other cultures, because i think that really helped. no joke, it was important to not just listen to public enemy or blues music or cypress hill or whatever but to also try to get into the mindset of other cultures, it's a good education for those who live in places where you're not exposed to non-white people except through mainstream media or targeted news channels.

It took people knocking me over the head over and over, figuratively, to get me to reconsider the acculturated racism I had. It took work, but I appreciate it now, I was a real dumbass when I was younger.

Just watched the Houston episode of Bourdain's show on the bus to work, tearing up and sniffling. Gave me hope, though. Seek it out.

https://twitter.com/joshledermanAP/status/796769992603815936

WASHINGTON (AP) — Obama says he was 'encouraged' by conversation with Trump, calls Oval Office meeting 'excellent' and wide-ranging

I can't fit into my head the thought of Obama meeting with (President-Elect!) Donald J. Trump

good post from a Veteran in my timeline:

Hey, Army (and military in general). What was the point of those incessant power points we had to go over four times a year. Something about not sexually harassing/assaulting people and something about racial discrimination being unacceptable, right? Enjoy your new commander-in-chief. Do as daddy says not as daddy do. #grabbedamericabythepussy

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Obama says he was 'encouraged' by conversation with Trump, calls Oval Office meeting 'excellent' and wide-ranging"

wtf's he going to say, honestly

hopefully he goes back into hsi office and recess appoints Garland.

recess appoints Garland.

he'd spark white riots, which we can't call riots, but you get the idea

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this blows huh

Vote to consolidate everything to a I Hate Trump board.

xxp also a constitutional crisis, which with a divided court would be p. chill

ive been wracking my brane for ways to be helpful out here in rural vermont, and have thus far come up empty handed

however, a friend of mine in new mexico could always use support (http://www.santafedreamersproject.org/what-we-do/), and a recent thread on her FB raised an interesting idea. for those of you in sanctuary cities/counties/states, encourage your local leaders to make a public declaration of support for immigrants. it might not seem like much, but ppl are pretty scared right now, and letting them know that their community supports/protects them might provide a not insignificant amount of comfort

one of trump's "first 100 days" actions is to revoke all federal funding for sanctuary cities

i have no idea how/whether that would be possible but hey

oh jesus i missed that

I don't even know if there's a way for Congress to do that -- federal funding for cities comes through a zillion different programs. But I suppose they can try.

Nixon decided it was in his power to sequester money allocated by Congress by simply choosing not to spend it. I can't recall offhand if he got away with this gambit, but he had a hostile Congress to contend with who fought back. Trump would have a compliant Congress, more than happy to set this craven precedent in return for scoring some political brownie points with their base.

based on my (cursory) look into it, it would seem that some places (eg Cali, New Mex) are sanctuaries at the state level, and others (Portland, ME) are at the city level.

also, "sanctuary city" seems to be pretty vaguely defined, and my guess is that it would be very, very difficult for congress to limit federal funding in any meaningful way

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw60UTzVEAA0reF.jpg

christ

also, "sanctuary city" seems to be pretty vaguely defined, and my guess is that it would be very, very difficult for congress to limit federal funding in any meaningful way

― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:23 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's reassuring. i wasn't sure at all

christ antichrist

I don't think it would happen, but...I live in Seattle, we're a sanctuary city, overdue for a huge earthquake. What then?

(The response that comes to mind is that middle-class whites will know what Katrina felt like but of course it's going to be the poor, minorities, people without resources who suffer the most.)

The other, distant fear is that four years from now, if everyone works like hell and turnout rises and we elect someone decent, who says these people are going to want to give the country back to the blacks and the queers and the immigrants?

Xp that is reassuring, lessens terror a few percentage points

the election was so close, i'm confident the Democrats can take back the WH in 4 years. obv depends on how Trump pans out, and who the Dems nominate...

https://twitter.com/Nufanglenesse/status/796643621529325568

Trump wasn't elected by an overwhelming majority- he doesn't have a mandate bc he didn't cross 300 EV's and lost the popular vote. God help us if 2020 is a repeat of 2004/1984

i can't imagine who will pull ahead as a contender in 4 years. sanders? he'll be a bit old. Warren? I like Warren but she talks to everyone like they are in preschool. Surely there must be someone else.

rupaul?

just thinking of reality show stars

no one really considered clinton and obama four years previous to their wins, at least not ahead of a bunch of other possibilities.

can we close this thread, please?

why?

The other, distant fear is that four years from now, if everyone works like hell and turnout rises and we elect someone decent, who says these people are going to want to give the country back to the blacks and the queers and the immigrants?

― JoeStork, Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:31 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea the collapse of the rust belt "blue wall" states is so disheartening. WI, MI, PA no longer being reliably blue is pretty grim

why?

― akm, Thursday, November 10, 2016

lol wrong thread

Do you think Trump or anyone he appoints or is advised by cares one iota about a mandate? I don't understand how the mandate thing is relevant ever (at anything other than a superficial, narrative level), but esp now.

Do you think Trump or anyone he appoints or is advised by cares one iota about a mandate? I don't understand how the mandate thing is relevant ever (at anything other than a superficial, narrative level), but esp now.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:45 PM (twenty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, GOP has presidency, house, senate. pretty much the only "mandate" that matters.

this man's happy

http://a3.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fit,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,q_80,w_620/MTE4MDAzNDEwODI5OTM2MTQy.jpg

i can't imagine who will pull ahead as a contender in 4 years. sanders? he'll be a bit old. Warren? I like Warren but she talks to everyone like they are in preschool. Surely there must be someone else.

― akm, Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:42 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

keith ellison imo

Tulsi Gabbard, god help us all

the modern right has been shown to have no morals, just an all-consuming thirst for power. and now we've elected a president who has been shown to have no morals, just an all-consuming thirst for power. they have no reason to compromise with anyone or throw a bone to the 1/2 of the country that votes against them, nor do they have the moral decency to feel a compulsion to do so.

Do you think Trump or anyone he appoints or is advised by cares one iota about a mandate? I don't understand how the mandate thing is relevant ever (at anything other than a superficial, narrative level), but esp now.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:45 PM (twenty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, GOP has presidency, house, senate. pretty much the only "mandate" that matters.

― marcos, Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:47 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also if hilary had won she had literally 0.1 more of the vote than trump, that's not really much of a mandate either

http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1b63ba2195924d00ef8ee7bdc037885491f404dbe9e1c77d3513f6ed71f2d600.png?w=600&h=177

Look for Kamala Harris to do the Obama fast track to the presidency thing.

i can't imagine who will pull ahead as a contender in 4 years. sanders? he'll be a bit old. Warren? I like Warren but she talks to everyone like they are in preschool. Surely there must be someone else.

― akm, Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:42 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

keith ellison imo

― jason waterfalls (gbx)

in terms of generating enthusiasm among democrats and liberals over the last 2 years, i would say bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, and the obamas were at the top. with HRC a tier below. bernie's not running again. michelle obama could probably do really well at some point but it won't happen in 2020. i'd personally be really happy to see elizabeth warren run, despite, er, how much better she is in the senate, apparently

I would like an "if you are related by blood or marriage to anyone who was been President in the last 30 years you aren't allowed to run" Constitutional amendment ASAP.

do we have a second, crappier White House for President Toiletlord to take over instead?

i hate the thought of that human dumpster setting up shop in the irl Oval

The White House will become the Gilded House.

Is there any indication he will even live in the White House? Is it required?

The dickhead's been elected, literally the least he could do right now would be to make a statement telling the more racist elements of his supporters to chill the fuck out.

Warren is giving a speech at AFL-CIO about the Democratic agenda right now

she's not pulling punches

kobach is in.

Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state and an ardent opponent of immigration, has been added to Mr. Trump’s transition team, according to local news reports.

Mr. Kobach, who provided guidance on immigration policy to Mr. Trump during the campaign, will help the president-elect in the weeks before he takes office, according to the Wichita Eagle.

He told the paper he did not expect to get an offer to serve in the Trump administration, but just having him in a formal role in the New Washington could send shudders through the nation’s immigrants. Mr. Kobach has been one of the loudest anti-immigration voices in the Republican Party for years. He added Mr. Trump’s call for a border wall along the southern tier into the Republican Party platform over the summer.

i'm taking some smal, inevitably temporaryl solace in how deeply terrified trump appears to be rn

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--UUv79Xyk--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/z5vhjrvamwgfwkdykcig.jpg

This probably belongs in a "9/11: Forbidden Thoughts"-esque thread about Trump winning, but i'd rather not start that thread, just wanted to share that two nights ago as I was falling asleep at ~4am I thought about Kate McKinnon and got really sad.

Trump said he will be meeting with O in future "for counsel"

Clintonholes planning to run Cuomo in 2020 btw

Trump has a glitzy new hotel just two blocks away, why stay in that creaky old house that is insufficiently adorned with gilded diarrhea?

And I don't think we need to know the name of our 2020 nominee rn; let's let that play out instead of pre-deciding whose turn it is. I love Warren and Bernie and Michelle and Tulsi; I would like to think we could do it via a primary election. You know, the usual way.

call them whatever you want. but calling them idiots and then expecting them to vote for your candidate is a pretty idiot move.

If you do anything at all in life based on what complete strangers on the internet call you, you may, in fact, be an idiot.

― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Thursday, November 10, 2016

Like all those "progressives" who abandoned Sanders bcz of BERNIEBROS ON TWITTER, no?

i understand why people are thinking to 2020 but really the big upcoming test is 2018 and i don't know about any of you but i'm not confident that dems can flip the senate and house back in two years

xp Fuck off.

I would like an "if you are related by blood or marriage to anyone who was been President in the last 30 years you aren't allowed to run" Constitutional amendment ASAP.

I am 100% opposed to this.

I'm not either. I've been telling students who want to Get Organized to worry about 2018 before 2020.

Things looked bleak in November 2004, I remember. First, we have an awful lot of nadir to endure.

in terms of generating enthusiasm among democrats and liberals over the last 2 years, i would say bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, and the obamas were at the top. with HRC a tier below. bernie's not running again. michelle obama could probably do really well at some point but it won't happen in 2020. i'd personally be really happy to see elizabeth warren run, despite, er, how much better she is in the senate, apparently

― Karl Malone, Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:56 PM (nineteen minutes ago)

really can't be said enough how much better it is that elizabeth warren is in the senate

When you end up with Pres. Jenna Bush in 2024 don't come crying to me.

xps to Dan

kinda wish i'd gone to law school, tbh -- feel like a lot of ppl are gonna need good lawyers in the coming years

Michelle Obama hates politics btw, which you might know if you've read a single profile of her.

I won't because we aren't going to have Pres. Jenna Bush in 2024.

First, we have an awful lot of nadir to endure.

I'm not even sure we'll know if or when we've hit a nadir. I think we're truly in an era of how low can you go, and the sky is the limit for the depths we may sink to. Gonna be exhausting.

I mean maybe she'll suddenly decide that The Today Show-style newscasting isn't her bag but there is literally nothing about her profile that shows any interest in governing or legislating beyond her family's last name.

It's also a bullshit window of exclusion that basically just says "someone get a Kennedy to run"

pretty sure the post was made in jest, dan

I want Warren in the Senate.

excuse me if I'm not a fucking barrel of laughs right now

Did someone post this yet?
https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656

Obama White House staffers watching Trump and his staff arrive for today's meeting: https://twitter.com/ColeLedford11/status/796777653432971264

just went out to lunch and the TV was showing trump & pence meeting w/ everyone. obama, paul ryan, walking around the capitol and white house. i can't handle this.

Phil D. i believe those are from yesterday not today xp

but still

xp Fuck off.

― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:23 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don't post with hate in your heart

‏@AP
Israeli official: renewed wave of settlement construction now that Trump signals end to US opposition to settlements

https://www.apnews.com/318c64cb14a94a0985d56758057c1bd8/The-Latest:-Israel-minister:-New-settlement-push-with-Trump

I am sincerely worried about how I will react when/if I witness any of the racist shit that's going down. Just reading about it is filling me with fury.

Spent an hour this morning staring daggers at a really smug and creepy looking white dude on the train who kept looking like he was about to say some shit to the POC on either side of him.

Israeli official: renewed wave of settlement construction now that Trump signals end to US opposition to settlements

inevitable. i was talking to koplow about this a little bit + he agrees that Bibi benefited greatly from having Obama to "hold him back" as an excuse since he's so conservative he really does not see value in annexation/major settlement. with trump though he really has nothing to tell Bennett. it'll be interesting how he plays it.

if there's going to be a bulwark it's not going to come from the so-called "international community" which i think as of today is basically done as a source of global ethical leadership or authority. it'll have to come from the israeli electorate. generally speaking i think they're apathetic at this pt but who knows. i don't see how bibi can hold off forever when the president of the united states is telling him that annexation is a-go.

Obama White House staffers watching Trump and his staff arrive for today's meeting: https://twitter.com/ColeLedford11/status/796777653432971264

I want to hug all these people esp the ones LITERALLY CRYING in these shots. </3

i wonder whether the UN will still be in NY 4 years from now. seems like a lot of good reasons to think it might not be? Republicans hate it, Trump seems to hate it...

I was also thinking that Trump barely owes anyone since his own party gave him so little support but you know who stood by him through thick and thin? this goblin:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Sheldon_Adelson_crop.jpg/440px-Sheldon_Adelson_crop.jpg

i'm taking some smal, inevitably temporaryl solace in how deeply terrified trump appears to be rn

I prefer this one
http://i.imgur.com/MOcVtDH.jpg

i'm taking some smal, inevitably temporaryl solace in how deeply terrified trump appears to be

I noticed this too. It confirms he didn't know what he was getting into

why would trump be terrified? dude is thrilled. i never understood people saying "he doesn't really want to be president"

so many people saying "he has no idea how hard this job is", he doesn't give a shit. like he has any respect for the seriousness or demands of the role?

it's not his job, it's pence's job

I'm imagining Trump saying, "So what, you come in in the morning, put your feet up, flip on MSNBC, wait for your staff to bring you all the clips that mention you, spend a little time on Twitter . . ." and Obama being like, "No, I . . . I work, all day. Every day. Seven days a week sometimes. It's really hard work."

Knowing how the Presidency ages people, there's some comfort in knowing that by 2020 he'll be just a pile of loosely-organized dust.

why do you think he would submit himself to the hard work required by the role?

he wont

he doesn't give a fuck about that shit

yeah i'm sure he's happy to play the figurehead while pence and his staff run the day-to-day duties

he will surround himself with sycophantic imbeciles, he won't invest time in reading the memos and listening to the briefings. let pence handle this. Trump is every other dead eyed corporate dude who finds himself running a large governmental organization - he will provide the bullshit "vision" while letting his underlings do the real work. he will pop in every once in a while to blurt out whatever his very first thought is, authoritatively and scaring the shit out of everyone else in the room, ruining many plans simultaneously. he will spend his time being the face of the organization, enjoying the perks, and figuring out ways to benefit those that are loyal to him.

yeah I agree Trump looks absolutely petrified, and i got that sense during his acceptance speech, which as someone said in the election day thread, was this "delirious utopian fantasy," as if he were reading the lyrics of Lennon's Imagine. I fully believe he did not expect to win, has no plan, and Pence will effectively be leading the country. which is even more of a nightmare than Trump imo

Lol @ "ruining many plans simultaneously"

exactly, he'll run the presidency like a business owner since that's all he knows

i know i posted this upthread, but letting the VP run the country - domestic and foreign policy - is explicitly what Trump Jr offered to John Kasich when they were trying to woo him, on behalf of his father

lol he doesn't "look petrified" you guys are reading into it exactly what you want. otoh yes pence will do most of the hard work, that was the plan all along, cf that NYT story

I am sincerely worried about how I will react when/if I witness any of the racist shit that's going down. Just reading about it is filling me with fury.

Now, imagine worrying about how you will react when some of the racist shit that's going down happens to you. Ponder how that feels for a while. It's not a very good feeling.

check out this bird! this bird is TERRIFIED!

http://i.imgur.com/385EVn9.jpg

the bird is like "get me out of here guys i don't know wtf i'm doing"

lol he doesn't "look petrified" you guys are reading into it exactly what you want. otoh yes pence will do most of the hard work, that was the plan all along, cf that NYT story

― k3vin k., Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:10 PM (

I said he looks petrified and that's that

haha that stupid fucking bird that i definitely did not vote for looks very dumb and scared!

Smug fuckin bird

actually the more i look at the picture the more i think the bird is hiding something. wtf did you do, bird?? and don't keep staring back blankly like you don't understand what i'm saying, i know you do.

ok i'm sounding like john oliver now, i'm sorry for that.

i'm going to post a rant from SETH MEYERS on my Facebook wall right now!

im just reading the election day thread posts from tuesday night to kind of get a handle on what point things started getting really scary and i saw this post:

Lol what a bunch of nervous nellies you guys are

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, November 8, 2016 9:24 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

come back shakey where are you

fuck that bird

Shakey's usually good with reassurances (and accurate). His pollsters were wrong too?

He's taking a break.

bummed that Shakey checked out right when things started to turn. hope he's ok and comes back soon.

on the radio earlier (bbc radio 5) they talked about how there would be the usual PR happy smiles for the camera/media during the meeting etc.
but no .. not one single grin.
having watched that i now need to turn up the heating.

why would trump be terrified? dude is thrilled. i never understood people saying "he doesn't really want to be president"

so many people saying "he has no idea how hard this job is", he doesn't give a shit. like he has any respect for the seriousness or demands of the role?

― marcos, Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:01 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

People are always desperately reading into images to fit some ideal narrative they want to be true. I could freeze a damning frame out of even the most positive, happy speeches or other footage of a politician/whoever without much effort.

Oh, what you all said above.

I think some people get paid decent money to do just that, actually

People are always desperately reading into images to fit some ideal narrative they want to be true. I could freeze a damning frame out of even the most positive, happy speeches or other footage of a politician/whoever without much effort.

― Evan, Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:26 PM

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c9/fb/4b/c9fb4b3d485802fb61fe04db67910783.jpg

Tabloid articles are the best evidence of this

I feel for Shakey. I was right there with him, trying to quell heightened fears about the sky falling. And then the sky fell. Like, who even knew it could do that? I wasn't at all prepared when it happened so I've been madly trying to gather my wits and stay positive and constructive give that mad howling void of terror as wide a berth as possible.

shakey seems like a pretty well put together dude i'm sure he's fine

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.752212

Non-Orthodox Jews supported Clinton at higher rates than Orthodox Jews, but the Democratic candidate came out ahead even in this sub-group. According to the poll, 76 percent of Reform Jews voted for Clinton, as opposed to 21 percent for Trump; 71 percent of Conservative Jews voted for Clinton, as opposed to 25 percent for Trump; and 56 percent of Orthodox Jews voted for Clinton, as opposed to 39 percent for Trump. Among those who identified as merely “just Jewish,” 67 percent voted for Clinton, as opposed to 26 percent for Trump.

small comfort but it does move me that Trump lost even among Orthodox Jews.

I can't speak to how Shakey is/was feeling, but as someone who had a similar outlook, I can say that watching my strongly held assumptions crumble before my eyes was pretty traumatic.

The photo of Obama and Trump is so damn heartbreaking. Dude literally spent his entire life shitting all over everybody and making up conspiracy theories about them and never once had to pay the price.

alright not "literally". you know what I mean.

xxp yea same here. my more cynical friends/family who have been predicting a trump win for months are not as crushed. even in 2004 it really felt like a toss-up in the weeks before

I texted with Shakey. He's ok (as ok as you can be in this horrible new world, I guess). Taking a break from the internet.

at the end of the obama meeting Trump calls Obama 'a very good man' many times, which gives me some early hope that Trump doesn't actually stand for anything and just wants the ultimate businessman gig

the fact that he doesn't stand for anything scares me the most because those around him stand for a whole bunch of terrible shit.

^^^

trump backtracking already:

Trump had said during the election campaign he would be willing to withdraw U.S. military stationed in South Korea unless Seoul paid a greater share of the cost of the U.S. deployment, but an adviser to the president-elect played down such comments on Thursday.

...

South Korea's presidential Blue House said Trump agreed with Park and it quoted Trump as saying: "We will be steadfast and strong with respect to working with you to protect against the instability in North Korea."

...

"He has moved on to talk about non-proliferation in a way that you would hear from any Republican president," he said.

"We are very much committed to both non-proliferation and assuring the allies that not only will they continue to be under the nuclear umbrella, but that we are going to be strengthening our missile defence in ways that alleviate some of their concerns about North Korea."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-election-southkorea-idUKKBN135099

"He has moved on to talk about non-proliferation in a way that you would hear from any Republican president," he said.

oh well I'm reassured whew

at the end of the obama meeting Trump calls Obama 'a very good man' many times, which gives me some early hope that Trump doesn't actually stand for anything and just wants the ultimate businessman gig

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:49 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck's sake, can we get rid of this bullshit about trump being an empty vessel? have you fucking heard anything this dude has been talking about for years?

and as everyone else notes, the people surrounding him are no better.

That's a terrible part of the reaction - the idea that Kasich or Cruz or whatever would be okay. The GOP as a whole is only marginally less white nationalist-friendly than Trump, if at all - he just came out and said it.

"He has moved on to talk about non-proliferation in a way that you would hear from any Republican president," he said.

oh well I'm reassured whew

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:57 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what you're expecting him to be sanders

I would expect Sanders to talk about non-proliferation in a way that you would hear from any president.

idealism vs reality i guess

I guess that's what's gotten me so frustrated about this election in general. Trump and his supporters have painted a picture this entire time of him being an outsider, someone who was fighting a rigged system, who the media despised for "telling the truth", who didn't have the support of "establishment" politicians, who often implied that some mysterious "they" was trying to hold him back. Not a single part of that is true. The media helped propel him to the White House by covering every single thing he did, refusing to talk about anything Hillary said unless she specifically mentioned Trump. They painted her email "scandal" as somehow being more disqualifying than all his actions combined. The FBI actively and blatantly meddled in the election to toss it in his favor. Russians hacked the DNC and Wikileaks strategically released thousands of private emails at the most damaging times possible. He lied about nearly everything and almost never got called out for it. He got away with not having to release his tax returns. He insulted Republicans nonstop in remarkably personal ways, and got to watch as nearly all of them wound up endorsing him anyway. He lost the popular vote but won the White House because of the electoral college (which he previously called a "disgrace"). All the vote rigging and voter suppression seemed to be in his favor. It is difficult to imagine a candidate getting more lucky breaks or being more privileged than he was. And yet he pushed the "rigged" narrative harder than anybody ever has. It's infuriating.

"Some people were born on 3rd base and go through life believing they hit a triple." Could not be more fucking apt about this man.

So Palin, Carson, Guiliani and Gingrich are all up as candidates? Good grief...

I guess that's what's gotten me so frustrated about this election in general. Trump and his supporters have painted a picture this entire time of him being an outsider, someone who was fighting a rigged system, who the media despised for "telling the truth", who didn't have the support of "establishment" politicians, who often implied that some mysterious "they" was trying to hold him back. Not a single part of that is true. The media helped propel him to the White House by covering every single thing he did, refusing to talk about anything Hillary said unless she specifically mentioned Trump. They painted her email "scandal" as somehow being more disqualifying than all his actions combined. The FBI actively and blatantly meddled in the election to toss it in his favor. Russians hacked the DNC and Wikileaks strategically released thousands of private emails at the most damaging times possible. He lied about nearly everything and almost never got called out for it. He got away with not having to release his tax returns. He insulted Republicans nonstop in remarkably personal ways, and got to watch as nearly all of them wound up endorsing him anyway. He lost the popular vote but won the White House because of the electoral college (which he previously called a "disgrace"). All the vote rigging and voter suppression seemed to be in his favor. It is difficult to imagine a candidate getting more lucky breaks or being more privileged than he was. And yet he pushed the "rigged" narrative harder than anybody ever has. It's infuriating.

― frogbs, Thursday, November 10, 2016 4:09 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

goes right in line w/ his white voters believing they an oppressed minority

or his image as a "self-made billionaire" despite having built entirely off Daddy's money

Hey, folks, I don't really know much about California, so could some of you help explain the flaws in my thinking?

Specifically, a lot of people who I take to be knowledgeable are immediately dismissive of the talk about California seceding. In the context of California political procedures and the stuff we've seen happen so far this year, why is this delusional crazy talk?

Because it seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that in California it's pretty easy to get a referendum on the ballot on just about any topic. Why couldn't secession be raised as one of those ballot referendums?

Thanks in advance.

how many states do you know that have successfully seceded from the union?

how many states do you know that have successfully seceded from the union?

― k3vin k

I'm sorry, but I don't find "It's never been done before" to be a very convincing argument in the light of this year's events.

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/30/reagan-alumni-for-trump-remind-america-that-gop-didnt-start-making-things-up-in-2016/

Ed Meese is still around and on the "Reagan Alumni for Trump" council

Doesn't California get a ton of its water from Colorado?

Specifically, a lot of people who I take to be knowledgeable are immediately dismissive of the talk about California seceding. In the context of California political procedures and the stuff we've seen happen so far this year, why is this delusional crazy talk?

bc most of us are not interested in re-litigating 1860 r u 4 real?

there's a good reason there is no provision for states seceding in the u.s. constitution.

Doesn't California get a ton of its water from Colorado?

― Kiarostami bag (milo z)

Maybe, but how's California's artisanal tea industry?

I want to be clear, I'm not advocating for it. I'm not saying it would be a good idea or that it would make sense. I'm just wondering if there's a reason beyond common sense and historical precedent why it couldn't happen.

not entirely opposed to another civil war at this point tbh, as long as nukes don't get involved it might be a net positive for the rest of the world

there's a good reason there is no provision for states seceding in the u.s. constitution.

― harold melvin and the bluetones (jim in vancouver)

And marijuana is an illegal schedule I drug on the federal level.

Is there any indication he will even live in the White House?

I've been wondering this too

not entirely opposed to another civil war at this point tbh

christ.

even two terms of Trump couldn't destroy as many American lives and essential infrastructure as a civil war. let's be real here.

Oh God I really don't want to get into some military nerd fantasy football about the logistics of a 2018 American Civil War. Please forgive me.

Well if one side used muskets...

How is he going to handle his business interests while he's in office? Is he legally required to disclose everything now? Are we ever going to find out who he owes money to? Like...how the hell is this going to work?

I would love for the tax returns to come back up and for there to be some reason they're made public

Against his will

the kids are going to run the business. totally separate. big league.

And then he is shocked this happens and chokes to death on the bite he took of a taco bowl

At some point I was saying "at least if Trump wins, we'll finally get to see his tax return". Can't remember why I said that

I'm sorry, but I don't find "It's never been done before" to be a very convincing argument in the light of this year's events.

― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy),

You should visit Appomattox Courthouse sometime

can we poll these

Secretary of Education Ben Carson

Attorney General Pam Bondi

Secretary of Energy Harold Hamm

was hoping to see Carson as Surgeon General w/ epaulets

Don't forget EPA chief Myron Ebell

if you feel like getting your heart ripped out today

http://jezebel.com/what-do-i-say-stories-from-the-classroom-after-electi-1788781296

I had one little boy who was clearly affected, I just talked to him and said, I can tell you’re upset, and he looked at me and said, ‘Well, my mom lives in Mexico’—I think he means she’s from Mexico, she lives here—‘and she says if Donald Trump wins she’s going back to Mexico.’ Which was heartbreaking, because the way he was saying it, it was clear that he was afraid she was going to leave him, which I don’t believe is true, but it’s clearly what’s going on in his head; I had to find a way to talk to him and try and make him feel like it’s going to be okay, whereas in my own mind, I don’t feel like it’s going to be okay, like, I can’t actually make that promise.

Re: Berlusconi upthread. This news piece from 2010.

Exasperated by Berlusconi's pro-Russian behaviour, American embassy staff detail allegations circulating in Rome that the Italian leader has been promised a cut of huge energy contracts. The two men are known to be personally close, but this is the first time allegations of a financial link have surfaced.

Hillary Clinton's state department in Washington sent a special request to the Rome embassy this year, asking for extra intelligence-gathering on the allegations about the men: "What personal investments, if any, do they have that might drive their foreign or economic policies?".

The US ambassador in Rome, Ronald Spogli, first reported the claims in a series of dispatches in 2008-09. He said the prime minister had taken "single-handed" control of Italy's dealings with Moscow, with the over-riding aim of pleasing the Russian leader. Berlusconi acted as a "mouthpiece" for Putin, he reported, supporting him in public when Russia was being criticised.

Perhaps the next time Gazprom squeezes Europe, at least some of the proceeds will be coming to these shores.

Y'all should read this.

A few days after the release of the tape, which was followed by a string of accusations from women saying they had been sexually harassed and assaulted by Trump, I checked back in with Tracie St. Martin to see if she still supported him. She was working on a new gas plant in Middletown, a working-class town near Dayton that was the setting of the recent best-selling memoir “Hillbilly Elegy.” Here’s what she wrote back in a text message: “I still appreciate the honesty in some of his comments. Most of his comments. I still favor what he says he may be able to do. I am voting against Hillary, come what may with Trump. It’s important to me that ‘we the people’ actually have political power. And electing Trump will prove that. I am AMAZED at the number of people voting for him. The corruption is disgusting in the press. Yes, as of right now I am voting FOR Trump.” She was sure he would win, she said: "His support is crazy! The polls have to be wrong. Have to be fixed.”

And she shared an anecdote that reflected how differently Trump’s comments had been received in some places than others. “I’m setting steel for this new gas plant…I’m operating a rough terrain forklift,” she wrote. “So today, I kept thinking about the debate and the audio was released … And I got underneath a load of steel and was moving it…I was laughing and laughing and one of the iron workers asked ‘what are u laughing at.’ I said ‘I grabbed that load right by the pussy’ and laughed some more…And said ‘when you’re an operator you can do that ya know’, laughed all fucking day."

"politicians are corrupt"-->"so let's elect a Prez who's a (failed) NY/NJ real-estate/casino mogul and reality TV star=1/2 this country really too dumb to be allowed to vote.

he literally lives inside a 24k gold room at the top of a tower in manhattan that has his name on it in huge letters

"politicians are corrupt"-->"so let's elect a Prez who's a (failed) NY/NJ real-estate/casino mogul and reality TV star=1/2 this country really too dumb to be allowed to vote.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:25 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, the answer to somebody who you consider is destroying democracy is to take votes away from people yes this is good logic i like it

you know what's really woke, testing people before they can vote.

yes, the answer to somebody who you consider is destroying democracy is to take votes away from people yes this is good logic i like it

― the klosterman weekend (s.clover)

burning the left for wanting to "destroy democracy" is like voting against hillary for wanting to "destroy the coal industry"

I'm usually not bothered by such stuff, but it is kind of sickening to hear CNN go on about Trump being gracious, Trump "hitting the right notes," etc. It really is kind of meaningless after the past 15 months.

he's who they wanted all along anyway. the next four years are going to be great for the news networks ratings wise

oh barf, had not considered that

s.clover if you really think I'm for real wanting to take away voting rights from anyone you're even more of an idiot than I already thought

Fuck CNN in every one of its miserable holes

Xpost

Worth re-reading again: Donald Trump Reportedly Plans to Delegate All Domestic and Foreign Power to his VP

(alternate interpretation: promise everything to this creep and allow him nothing)

and I don't consider them to be destroying democracy. democracy needs an intelligent citizenry. we do not have one atm.

s.clover if you really think I'm for real wanting to take away voting rights from anyone you're even more of an idiot than I already thought

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:58 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe don't say you think people shouldn't be allowed to vote if you don't mean it? idk, just thinking aloud here

"democracy needs an intelligent citizenry."

spoken like a true patrician scion of jefferson davis

yeah I forgot about the dipshits like you who take every single thing literally, good lord.

unilateral state secession is illegal, per the supreme court: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

also a bad idea from a democratic perspective, see lincoln's first inaugural

also morally wrong, because a liberal state with a huge population leaving the union leaves trump and his fellow cretins stronger than ever

otm x3

Can the District of Columbia secede? We're not a state.

but people who want their blue state to secede don't actually want to improve the lives of the oppressed, they just want to make the problem someone else's responsibility

which is why the idea coming from California doesn't surprise me. Who would be president -- Zuckerberg?

if you think your state should be independently governed from the rest of the union go vote for a fucking states'-rights libertarian

It's frustrating, though, because even though we have the hugest population and GDP, our voices matter basically not at all in national elections. In the primaries, we vote so late that it usually doesn't matter. In the general election, we are reliably blue, which means we are basically ignored.

I guess the scary part for the rest of the country would be that if CA left, 55 blue votes would disappear.

if u think president trump would allow secession of any us state without military intervention i think u might need to reevaluate ur premises

I'm fairly sure he'd let states go. "Let'em go. LOSER!"

yeah its the large scale version of running away to canada

And so the real hatred starts and of course it has to be in my home state
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/texas-state-university-police-looking-into-trump-vigilante-fliers/jhWSmmhNxxuTXZaQJiYhNI/

bill fletcher - http://billfletcherjr.com/2016/quick-reflections-november-2016-election/

from last thread

talk me off the ledge folks
― wizzz! (amateurist)
honestly? it's every bit as bad as you say it is. that's no reason to jump.

it is a good reason, if the alternatives are eventually dieing in a nuclear holocaust or witnessing this country turn into a fascist police state.
people saying all these folks will "show up" for democrats in the future dismiss the likelihood that trump will sign (and the supreme court will approve) all manner of vote-suppressing measures.

Yesterday and today the spirit at the office has been higher than usually, everyone happy with Trump's win. Everyone unhappy about getting called racist, sexist, bigots etc. I never talk about my personal political views at work but everyone knows my wife is hispanic and I don't tolerate certain talk around me. I do ask people questions about their own views. I'm rarely even in the office but these last two days I had meetings. Everyone was talking about budgets, expansions, and projects, and I had to speak before executives and these guys from Norway. All I could think about was two hours away my wife is at home crying and afraid, while taking care of our sick daughter. I have felt like a jerk because I didn't want Hilary, but I certainly didn't want Trump, didn't even think Trump was possible. But I do work in regulation of oil and gas and my company is very pleased with our new president(with a certain trepidation). I feel guilty. I feel awful for telling my wife how I don't let racism bother me because I don't give their words power. I've never walked in a her shoes and I do try to understand, but I often fail. I just feel awful, guilty and want to cry.

<3 u Jacob

I'd really like to think the enormity and magnitude of the job will make a difference on the man. I mean, this makes running a billion dollar casino/real estate empire look like kids' play (which, let's be fair, a casino/real estate empire sort of is). We're talking hundreds of millions of lives, trillions of dollars, vast global repercussions for mistakes and victories alike. Every president talks about those facts settling in. What will it mean to selfish, narcissistic person for whom all that stuff has thus far been more or less meaningless? For someone whose idea of power has been like the nouveau riche's idea of wealth? Really curious about this. Also wondering if some of his more cartoonish, incompetent appointments will get laughed out of DC like Harriet Miers.

Beyond that, what will security be like at his countless properties? Will they have to be protected 24/7? What about employees there? What about his kids and their respective hand me down empires? What about his ex-wives and their families? Vacation properties? And, thinking ahead a bit, if a ghoul like Giuliani becomes AG, who hires the special prosecutor?

My mom, she is worried he will have a heart attack in office. How heavy was peak Bubba? And he was a lot younger then than Trump is now.

ffs, Jacob, man, this shit should not be happening.

Makes so angry the misery this worthless cunt Trump is ALREADY causing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmdN1F4Uwv0

My wife just shared this with me, sorry to bring things down even more https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.e4wy6jvhw

but people who want their blue state to secede don't actually want to improve the lives of the oppressed, they just want to make the problem someone else's responsibility

― electric wight dorkestra (crüt)

so you're saying that california has a responsibility to make america great again?

and I don't consider them to be destroying democracy. democracy needs an intelligent citizenry. we do not have one atm.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger)

"intelligence" is not a good word to use here. voting for trump is a basic moral failure.

it is a good reason, if the alternatives are eventually dieing in a nuclear holocaust or witnessing this country turn into a fascist police state.
people saying all these folks will "show up" for democrats in the future dismiss the likelihood that trump will sign (and the supreme court will approve) all manner of vote-suppressing measures.

― wizzz! (amateurist)

i'm not a mental health professional, but if you're saying it's better to die in despair than to live in fear, i'm not super on board with that. i'm not counting on any trump voters "showing up" for democrats, but we will be able to get a lot more done if we stand up instead of hiding. you may not be able to do that right now, but at least maybe see if you can work towards it as a goal.

"I have lived in autocracies most of my life, and have spent much of my career writing about Vladimir Putin’s Russia. I have learned a few rules for surviving in an autocracy and salvaging your sanity and self-respect. It might be worth considering them now:" - http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

"intelligence" is not a good word to use here. voting for trump is a basic moral failure.

I don't think the majority of Trump voters lack morals. I think they lack the intelligence/critical-thinking skills to either recognize a sociopathic con man, or to comprehend the consequences of electing one (ie I hear many of them saying yes he's awful, but this won't affect his ability to get shit done).

I don't think the majority of Trump voters lack morals. I think they lack the intelligence/critical-thinking skills to either recognize a sociopathic con man, or to comprehend the consequences of electing one (ie I hear many of them saying yes he's awful, but this won't affect his ability to get shit done).

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger)

i never said that they lacked morals. i know (ok, knew) trump voters. most of them were highly intelligent. they were also to appearances moral. however, they made a decision that was grossly inconsistent with their professed moral principles, and this is the moral failure.

the trump voters i knew were not ignorant of what trump is, of who trump is. many of them loathe him deeply, believe that he is categorically unfit to hold the presidency. and they voted for him anyway.

From Sarah Kendzior, If you are thinking about 2020, or even 2018, you are doing it wrong. This is not normal. Checks and balances will be gone. Laws rewritten.

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/796869863067308032

so you're saying that california has a responsibility to make america great again?

― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:08 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm saying that california abandoning this country is a morally indefensible dick move

I think a lot of these dire predictions are possible (and I plan to prepare for them and believe everyone else should too) but these worst case scenario arguments don't seem likely to me atm. Maybe like the NYRB article says I've just been lulled into believing so because of Obama and Clinton and faith in institutions, but my eyes are open and I'm looking for signs and I'm prepared to act on them if I see them. But I don't see how all these doomsday articles are good for my mental/emotional health.

i'm saying that california abandoning this country is a morally indefensible dick move

― qop (crüt)

yes, they should stay and be oppressed along with the rest of us. how selfish of them!

i'm sure they would face no oppression under President of California Peter Thiel

for one thing the majority of americans voted against trump and i don't get the impression that the majority of trump voters voted for him to be a fascist dictator. i think a lot of them thought his rhetoric was mostly for show and that he would behave and if he started doing horrific domestic things i'd like to think that there would be substantial resistance. i don't believe he has co-opted the military which is essential for full domestic repression and though the FBI and police seem to like him I don't have the impression that the police are en masse prepared to start suppressing widespread dissent. i think there will likely be deaths - it won't be the first time in US history that protesters are killed. but what some of these articles are talking about is a level of repression it is very hard for me to imagine.

Nobody posted this yet?

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

i think it's idiotic but lots of friends are sharing it on fb

The whole California/Oregon/Washington secession idea is so maddening to me

Especially because it allows Orange County, all of the State of Jefferson idiots and every other racist wackjob region to come right along as well
How is that a good idea?

aside from the fact that secession is ludicrous, cowardly and fuckin STUPID

Of course it's idiotic. The EC is idiotic. The fact that only 24 states have laws binding their electors' votes is idiotic.

Right on: http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-details/2016/Inclusion-and-Tolerance-in-the-Workplace/default.aspx

state of jefferson votes have *passed* on local ballots in regions not far outside Sacramento
in fact i just checked: ***21*** northern cali counties have declared their intentions to secede

go hang with those nutjobs for a day & see if you still want to secede

I think a lot of these dire predictions are possible (and I plan to prepare for them and believe everyone else should too) but these worst case scenario arguments don't seem likely to me atm. Maybe like the NYRB article says I've just been lulled into believing so because of Obama and Clinton and faith in institutions, but my eyes are open and I'm looking for signs and I'm prepared to act on them if I see them. But I don't see how all these doomsday articles are good for my mental/emotional health.

― Mordy

i agree with you on the likelihood issue, and "don't panic" is as good advice now as it's ever been, but so many unlikely things have happened this year that i'm not going to discount anything on the grounds that it seems unlikely.

i've seen a lot of my friends talking about nuclear apocalypse. to me that seems ludicrous. at the same time, i'm not in a position to argue that it's not going to happen. a man who has amply demonstrated himself to be profoundly emotionally unstable is going to have the legal ability to launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack.

now, i'm not going to worry about it, because what the fuck would be the point? if it happens it happens. our best opportunity to keep it from happening was on tuesday. there are plenty of other things we can and should do.

for me, the value of reading the dire articles (and writing my share of dire stuff) is because humans are extraordinarily resilient creatures. we are just amazingly, amazingly adaptable to all sorts of changes. we may have a couple sleepless nights, but by and large, we roll with them.

i feel like it would be comparatively easy for me to allow trump's america to become a new normal. to bitch and complain about trump as if he were any other shitty politician. to talk about the ground game instead of about beliefs and values.

i'm more afraid of this than i am of anything trump might do.

even if the worst came to pass and trump was our last president because he demolishes US democracy... i still spend more time worrying about my kids living in a post-civilizational scorched wasteland which just got more likely.

http://billmoyers.com/story/farewell-america/

Democracy can’t cope with extremism. Only violence and time can defeat it. The first is unacceptable, the second takes too long. Though Trump is an extremist, I have a feeling that he will be a very popular president and one likely to be re-elected by a substantial margin, no matter what he does or fails to do. That’s because ever since the days of Ronald Reagan, rhetoric has obviated action, speechifying has superseded governing.

Trump was absolutely correct when he bragged that he could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and his supporters wouldn’t care. It was a dictator’s ugly vaunt, but one that recognized this election never was about policy or economics or the “right path/wrong path,” or even values. It was about venting. So long as Trump vented their grievances, his all-white supporters didn’t care about anything else. He is smart enough to know that won’t change in the presidency. In fact, it is only likely to intensify. White America, Trump’s America, just wants to hear its anger bellowed. This is one time when the Bully Pulpit will be literal.

Bernie Sanders Can Still Win This Election. Here's How

by neal gabler btw i was momentarily confused at such extreme words coming from moyers himself

there are brief moments when I can cheer up but I'm so depressed, so scared, so sad. my heart goes out to all of you. I love you all. I see no cause for hope anywhere, this is something we can only defend ourselves from, not actively fight for good, just less bad. it's going to be so bad. worse than Reagan 80s.

I'm starting to think I will need to see a therapist. this happened in the middle of a vacation, and it has ruined any possibility of enjoyment. constant anxiety, fear, despair, depression

it's funny bc i feel like i'm arguing against apocalypse itt while i'm arguing for it in the other but the other thing that gives me some comfort is that this entire country has been set up to preserve individual freedoms. it's why we have capitalism and not central planning. it's why we have states and not just a federal govt. it's even why we have stupid things like the 2nd amendment. it wouldn't be an easy task for the most brilliant dictator to take full control of the US and Stalin Trump is not. who is going to let him shut down the internet when people are planning protests? facebook? google? who is going to let him shut down the NYT and the WaPost? he can make life miserable in so many ways but i don't think he can destroy american democracy. i think in 4 years or in 8 years we will have a new president. of course i was also like 110% sure that hillary would win so my predictive powers are for shit.

what i heard from my mother who lives in a very pro-trump town (she is terrified rn) is that everybody thinks he doesn't really mean the things he says

i am looking around and trying to figure out what actions to take. one of the things currently worrying me a lot is actions happening without any real organizing or common goals behind them, that will be exploited by him to consolidate even more power. the a.n.s.w.e.r. coalition is doing protests at the inauguration apparently and if something like the anti-WTO protests happens (i participated in those myself!) there is going to be some kind of crackdown. i am also worried about what if there is a major disaster or especially terrorist attack, remembering how bad things already seemed when bush stole the 2000 election and then after 9/11 the pressure was on everyone to stand behind him and support him no matter what.. including the invasion of iraq

even if you cant make it all the way to Stalin, the mind reels at plausible damage Trump can do domestically with Republican House and Senate, and in foreign policy. it feels like the end of something, to me. not sure what, but were clearly not just going to resume our previous path before this. and it just feels so unnecessary

When I was a child, my parents moved me from state to state and tiny house and apartment trying to find steady work and keep me and my sisters fed and safe. I didn't know things were bad. We ended up in Texas eventually in an actual owned house with a good school. Reagan came along and made our fragile stability less stable.

I don't know what Trump will do, and it's hard to think about the children living like that now.

he can make life miserable in so many ways but i don't think he can destroy american democracy.

more voter suppression laws, stacking the justice system with right wing ideologues.. and worst i really do worry about some kind of unexpected major crisis through which he suspends/ignores the rule of law and the GOP continues to go along with it.. and i mean i worry that if he doesn't get one, he'll create one, tanking the economy, starting another war

even if you cant make it all the way to Stalin, the mind reels at plausible damage Trump can do domestically with Republican House and Senate, and in foreign policy. it feels like the end of something, to me. not sure what, but were clearly not just going to resume our previous path before this. and it just feels so unnecessary

I agree with this 100%. I'm scared and frightened and I feel an immense sense of loss and for nothing. Just emptiness. But I don't want to go crazy - even a somber conservative analysis is bad enough.

I think I am going crazy, like literally as in suffering mental illness. I hope not. but I'm really, deeply terrified

From Sarah Kendzior, If you are thinking about 2020, or even 2018, you are doing it wrong. This is not normal. Checks and balances will be gone. Laws rewritten.

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/796869863067308032

― mick signals, Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:41 PM (one hour ago)

this woman is a conspiracy theorist and is not to be taken seriously fyi

i'm trying hard to keep perspective, but i really don't even know what that means anymore.

like, let's say an extremist ideologue like Pence (since hey he might be running shit day to day anyway) or even god forbid Cruz had been the nominee and somehow some way slipped up and beat Hillary. i guess at the very least the people who would have supported a guy like know exactly what he 'stands' for, and ostensibly would have had traditional reasons for voting for him. but right now it's just weird and frankly watching "conservative" middle America stand arm & arm with a bunch of internet nihilists and who are equally willing to roll the dice on lunatic scumbag. it just seems like we are done for when 65 year old suburban church deacons with decent jobs are just like "fuck it dunno man he's CRAZY, he could do anything lol #MAGA"

like wtf happened to you, guy? serious question. and you can NOT fucking say "but but Obama.."

*frankly scary

everybody thinks he doesn't really mean the things he says

Then one thing we maybe need to start doing is remind them that he does, he always has, and it is going to be very bad for them, too, not just city slickers and the blacks.

He's on 60 Minutes Sunday, let's see what he says, what tone he takes. If he's the same blustery unsympathetic lack of empathy ass as he was when running even after he had won, I will be even more worried.

Frederik, the election is over, you can cut the crap now. She did not get "bombarded with death threats." A couple of losers left angry messages.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), 10. november 2016 16:54 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was from the old thread, but I'm done with this sort of bullshit. We've just seen white supremacy and sexism have it's biggest triumph yet, I'm not gonna let misogynistic harassment and death threats be explained away as 'angry messages' anymore.

Massive TRIGGER WARNING!!! Scroll past this if you don't want to read misogynynistic words and threats of violence. But I need to post a sampling of the hundreds or thousands of messages that Roberta Lange received in the days after Nevada. Each new line is a new voicemail or text message.

Hi Roberta Lange. This is a citizen of the United States of America and I just wanted to let you know that I think people like you should be hung in a public execution to show this world that we won’t stand for this sort of corruption. I don’t know what kind of money they are paying to you, but I don’t know how you sleep at night. You are a sick, twisted piece of shit and I hope you burn for this! You can return my call at xxx-xxx-xxxx. I’d love to go into further detail with you about this, though I am sure you don’t have courage to do so. You cowardless bitch, running off the stage! I hope people find you.
 
You fucking stupid bitch! What the hell are you doing? You’re a fucking corrupt bitch! That is so fucking wrong. You should be ashamed and disgraced. You need to step down from that position because you are bad for America and bad for the Democratic Party. That was fucking bullshit today. You need to step down. You’re a disgrace.
 
Oh Roberta, Roberta, Roberta, you old, old hag. Oh, we watched the whole thing in Nevada. You’re really kinda screwed, lady. Um, yeah. Really stupid. Fuck you.
 
Fuck you, bitch!
 
Roberta, you know thousands of people watched what you did tonight at the convention – if you don’t think that that’s coming back to bite you in the ass, you have got another thing coming.

Hi Roberta, I am pretty sure you’re probably not going to get back to me because you don’t care about the American people, but what you did today, it was corrupt, it was wrong, and the founding fathers of our country would be ashamed of you. You deserve to be in prison, not the chairman for the Democratic Party. Rot in Hell.
 
You’re a cunt. Fuck you!
 
We are having a massive public opposition to your illegal activities. You have demonstrated to be fraudulent and I would pack your bags right now because the shit storm you’ve ensued is coming.

You stupid ass bitch. We’re coming for your ass.

Bitch answer me! How much did the Hilary campaign pay you for that shit? You weren’t a coward yesterday, don’t be one now! Biggest cunt in politics next to Clinton. You’ve just ruined your life!

SHAME ON YOU Roberta Gustave Lange. You are an abomination to the humans race to supress the HUMAN RIGHT to VOTE. May retribution come fully and harshly upon you. I CURSE YOU

Praying to god someone shoots you in the FACE, and blows your democracy-stealing head off!

That's not just a 'couple of losers'. That's horrifying. And that's just a fraction of what she received. And I'm horrified that you're trying to minimize it, man alive. And when I can, I won't let you or anyone minimize this kind of abuse and chicanery.

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/796859453157031936

a little honesty is refreshing

from the NYRB link upthread - but everyone should go read the whole thing

Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. ...

Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. Consider the financial markets this week, which, having tanked overnight, rebounded following the Clinton and Obama speeches.

Rule #3: Institutions will not save you. It took Putin a year to take over the Russian media and four years to dismantle its electoral system; the judiciary collapsed unnoticed.

Rule #4: Be outraged. If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised. But in the face of the impulse to normalize, it is essential to maintain one’s capacity for shock.

Rule #5: Don’t make compromises. Like Ted Cruz, who made the journey from calling Trump “utterly amoral” and a “pathological liar” to endorsing him in late September to praising his win as an “amazing victory for the American worker,” Republican politicians have fallen into line.

Rule #6: Remember the future. Nothing lasts forever. Donald Trump certainly will not, and Trumpism, to the extent that it is centered on Trump’s persona, will not either.

Oh also can we abandon Twitter and Reddit completely and just let the alt-right have them? They'll go out of business and get bought by Russians, and nobody will care.

Kendzior is a conspiracy theorist and is not to be taken seriously fyi

Yeah? Do you have sources for that? Not doubting you, I don't know one way or the other.

everybody thinks he doesn't really mean the things he says

Then one thing we maybe need to start doing is remind them that he does, he always has, and it is going to be very bad for them, too, not just city slickers and the blacks.

well, literally none of the people i personally interact with (including what friends i've kept from my conservative hometown) voted for him and they're all varying degrees of horrified now.. only person i know who's happy is one facebook 'friend' who is really a distant acquaintance & is in the military. i spent quite a few weekends in pennsylvania trying to get democrats to turn out and vote against him..

right now i see some "wait and see, the sky isn't falling, we will get through this" lack of urgency plus those who want to organize and take action but lack direction and leadership...

I can't decide what's more ridiculous, that I'm considering signing a change.org petition in the hopes that it helps overturn the electoral college or that the only reason I haven't yet is because I'm afraid that putting my name and address on it will get me put on Trump's enemies list.

i feel like this all happened because from day #1 of obama's first term the GOP leadership decided to obstruct him and stop the government from functioning no matter what. i can see how it resonates in middle america to look at the struggling economy there and poor infrastructure and wages being flat & saying we need change. if only obama had been able to get a big infrastructure and jobs bill done

"If you succeed, we succeed." HELLLL NO

Re: the Oval Office picture of Trump-Obama, it's not so much that he looks terrified (although there's a little of that) but that he looks, for the first time, actually ashamed to be sitting there with Obama. It's a mixture of shame and fear. He looks like a 70 year old boy who's done a bad thing and who's embarrassed that the adult in the room is still being civil towards him.

Of course the shame will only have been temporary as I'm sure he switched as soon as he left the building.

I feel like the greatest immediate mitigating factor is that he and his "people" seem to be very lazy and don't know how to do anything. If leading Dems and career officials remember Rule #5, never forget Rule #5, always stick to Rule #5, then we might live through this.

History implies America will not fall prey to fascism, at least as it has traditionally manifested itself. But if the country was indeed going down the darkest path, what are the first warning signs to look for (other than electing a fascist)? The weakening of the press? Punishing enemies?

given the general consensus that Trump has little interest in policy or the day to day donkey work of being President, and will delegate most of that side of things to subordinates - do we have an idea of who these people are likely to be, of who is going to be actually making the big decisions? Who does Trump listen to? Is the administration likely to be chaotic as different subordinates fight for dominance in the absence of a strong/engaged president?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/796900183955095552

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!

9:19pm · 10 Nov 2016 · Twitter for Android

okay yeah so he's going to have people massacred at his inauguration

this is gonna be the longest 4 years

Give him a chance!

LOL

there are brief moments when I can cheer up but I'm so depressed, so scared, so sad. my heart goes out to all of you. I love you all. I see no cause for hope anywhere, this is something we can only defend ourselves from, not actively fight for good, just less bad. it's going to be so bad. worse than Reagan 80s.

― flopson, Thursday, November 10, 2016 8:09 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think I am going crazy, like literally as in suffering mental illness. I hope not. but I'm really, deeply terrified

― flopson, Thursday, November 10, 2016 8:30 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i feel this way too flopson. im not doing well

"Professional protesters." Welcome to Russia.

I think the Cabinet is going to be completely off the rails and they're going to ask for crazy things but mostly just not do their actual jobs. They will likely treat all the career civil servants beneath them like shit. It's probably going to be supremely annoying for the SES corps, since those folks can actually be fired - but only if you work at it, and they won't.

even if you cant make it all the way to Stalin, the mind reels at plausible damage Trump can do domestically with Republican House and Senate, and in foreign policy. it feels like the end of something, to me. not sure what, but were clearly not just going to resume our previous path before this. and it just feels so unnecessary

I agree with this 100%. I'm scared and frightened and I feel an immense sense of loss and for nothing. Just emptiness. But I don't want to go crazy - even a somber conservative analysis is bad enough.

― Mordy, Thursday, November 10, 2016 8:27 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea the "best case scenario" i come up with is an awful but typical republican presidency. reagan & gwb eras. that's pretty bad and depressing enough, honestly right now i feel like we'd be lucky to have that instead of trump. we'll see

seriously spooked by that DJT tweet :(

Imagine if Michael "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job" Brown held every cabinet position.

I was at the protest last night, where's my money?

OK, so even as president elect he is tweeting umbrage? The fuck does he care, he won. Man, four years, two years, one year, two months ... who knew Trump would destroy time, too.

i feel like this all happened because from day #1 of obama's first term the GOP leadership decided to obstruct him and stop the government from functioning no matter what. i can see how it resonates in middle america to look at the struggling economy there and poor infrastructure and wages being flat & saying we need change. if only obama had been able to get a big infrastructure and jobs bill done

― FREE BRADY (daria-g), Thursday, November 10, 2016 9:16 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea this feels right to me

instinctive "oh for fuck's sake" when I read that tweet

Wouldn't professional protesters be hired rather than incited?

that tweet, jesus

So the tax plan is going to slash revenues by epic numbers - will he follow along with the GOP austerity standards which means zero job growth and no infrastructure projects or does he buck them and push for Huey Long-populism where we just run enormous deficits to fund projects for the Rust Belt he needed?

this is going to be very bad

@tripgabriel
Interviewing Trump voters in Erie, Pa., many don't much like him, voted reluctantly, suggesting he won't get much slack if he can't deliver

It's weird because there was lots of stuff written about how voters found Hillary was "unlikeable", similar to all the articles in 2000 and 2004 about how ppl found Gore and Kerry cold and disatant, and they would "rather share a beer" or whatever with Bush, and I can see that Bush had this laid back frat-boy charm that would appeal to some people. But with Trump, I kind of get impression that *most* of his voters don't "like" him, he's more like an avatar of their ugliest, most shameful feelings. I can't imagine that even his most enthusiastic supporters think that hanging out with Trump would be anything other than unbearable, but I don't think it's necessarily the case that Trump voters may stop supporting him because they don't "like" him as Gabriel suggests, that's not the level he appeals to ppl on.

So the tax plan is going to slash revenues by epic numbers - will he follow along with the GOP austerity standards which means zero job growth and no infrastructure projects or does he buck them and push for Huey Long-populism where we just run enormous deficits to fund projects for the Rust Belt he needed?

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, November 10, 2016 9:53 PM (seven seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he won't do shit, GOP is just going to run with this, they have the strucutral advantages to keep congress for a long time

god i am so depressed right now you guys

this morning i woke up from a better sleep and the sun was out today (yesterday it was dark and gloomy as fuck in cleveland) and i had some better moments but ultimately i am just so scared and depressed and angry about this

His margin was too thin to not offer anything to the [racist/economically anxious/other as you prefer] white working class that turned out for him, if it's a standard GOP budget they won't come out again.

gop doesn't give a fuck about vote margins or approval ratings though. you see the glee in paul ryan right now? these guys just view this as their ticket, they weren't expecting it but here it is and they know it

ahhh idk i just so little faith right now

That's how they feel but Trump is desperate for approval and will be second for another term - he might just want to be a figurehead but if that starts to hurt his numbers or threaten his next time around he's still the damn President.

between this and a couple things in my life this is by far the worst week i've had in about 8 years

@tripgabriel
Interviewing Trump voters in Erie, Pa., many don't much like him, voted reluctantly, suggesting he won't get much slack if he can't deliver

a trump voter who saw me & canvassing partner out knocking on doors for hillary in a small pennsylvania city literally yelled at us (in a friendly way!), "good luck with that, it's too bad i have to vote for the guy who's mentally retarded"

i am not even joking. we had to take a moment to unpack because 1) why do you *have* to vote for him?! 2) casual slur against the disabled (i suppose this means he's not 'politically correct') 3) the guy was trying to be nice!

wow, that is something

Sad!

this is sickening

Not really tbh. He lived a full live and left it with highs most artist would be envious of.

between this and a couple things in my life this is by far the worst week i've had in about 8 years

― call all destroyer

:-(

one upshot of all this is that even though his cabinet is going to be filled with people who suck like Newt Gingrich, he's going to be constantly firing and replacing them

reflecting on it more it also makes me wonder how the campaign team could have done better to realize what was happening in the field.. i'm really new at this so i don't know how the whole operation works other years, but in early fall at least when you're still trying to gauge where the voters are at & ask them to commit to vote..

the list of doors to knock should be all democrats but anyplace besides philadelphia it was always coming up with a not insignificant number of "we won't say" (which probably means trump?) or straight up "we're for trump"

i assumed this was normal but i didn't have other years to measure response against. i wonder how many of us sounded alarms about this kind of thing on tally sheets because it really wasn't emphasized to note it down in training

Government Apprentice, coming to CSPAN

xp daria I found this interesting and possibly related to yr door-to-door experience, have not seen it yet - the Clinton campaign's reliance on a data simulator named ADA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/11/09/clintons-data-driven-campaign-relied-heavily-on-an-algorithm-named-ada-what-didnt-she-see/

(I mean, have not seen this mentioned in the election threads so far on ILX)

Not really tbh. He lived a full live and left it with highs most artist would be envious of.
alink
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 November 2016 03:21 (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

RIP Donald Trump :(

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/796900183955095552

― Allen (etaeoe), Thursday, November 10, 2016 9:38 PM (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034630820507648

Guessing at Trump having a slightly elevated heart rate and somewhat high blood pressure along with age and BMI, it still only looks like he has a 3% of chance of dying of congestive heart failure in the next four years

this guy is a fucking con artist and thug

obama is trying to reassure people for the sake of the country and is biting his tongue. we should not. no matter what he does in office -- if it turns out he compromises or whatever which seems unlikely -- it doesn't matter. he has already put our country through hell with his racist campaign and no one should forget it.

yeah i read that article about the Ada data machine

i don't think you can pin this on any one factor but one thing that tracks with my experience when we were still going after persuadable voters (as opposed to later on GOTV canvassing) was the people who refused to say who they were voting for. how do you handle that in polling? how do you put that into your data model? this is where i feel like there really is a need to be more engaged with these folks because if you are a member of the community and people trust you then maybe you'll actually know who they're voting for and what is happening and be able to persuade them otherwise. intuitively it felt like a cultural thing to me, older white people from rust belt cities/towns who refused to tell you what they thought or who they were voting for, because they didn't know you. i grew up around these people. they voted for trump

I may play the banjo, but I'm a Mexican-American. I have no fuckin' idea what I should feel. It's so weird when you realize just how many people hate people who's skin color is the same as mine. I don't feel safe anymore and every white person is now under suspicion in my mind, which is horribly unfair and which I hate. But the worst thing is knowing that there's a part of me that does feel inferior to white people (I'm 61 years old; there was nothing cool about being Mexican when I was growing up) and that now a small part of me will "know" that I am low-class and worthless always. Right now, I want to pull the blankets over my head and sleep forever. I thought I was done with most of this shit, but apparently I'm not. I'm old and I'm tired and now I'm not good enough to live in my own country.

So is trump going to keep blaming the media for his entire presidency?

unless the Breitbart guy has a better idea

I would stand beside you banjo

banjoboy please post more

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/world/europe/trump-campaign-russia.html?_r=0

you're better than at least half the people who vote in this country, that's for sure, banjoboy. you're not worthless, and you have every right to be suspicious of white people.

xp no i was told that his russian connections were just liberal conspiracy theories

i have light skin and i feel tremendous shame about it right now even i don't personally identify in any way w/ "white culture" but it doesn't matter i'm horrified by the way i look.

i don't know what it would look like but i feel like i need some kind of kip thread to help get through all this (not just the above which i think is minor compared to a lot of the other stuff i and others are going thru) and it sounds maybe like some other posters could use one too. like i said i'm not sure exactly what it would be? maybe the solution is i just need a break from thinking about politics for a bit bc i know this isn't healthy bc i don't feel healthy i feel sick and constantly frightened and no matter what is reasonable to expect it would be nice to reduce some of the self-inflicted suffering right now. sorry i don't really have any recommendation really i guess. maybe like i remember we made that thread for looking at pictures of trees instead of clusterfucks? what do ppl think about some kind of thread for pictures + video of like natural world stuff - volcanos and exotic animals and beautiful places on earth and maybe beautiful traditions and ppl and communities. ugh i feel so stupid writing this but i'm going to post it anyway bc even tho i think my idea is dumb maybe someone has a better one? i have a pint of ben + jerrys in the freezer and i'm 99% sure that it isn't going to make me feel better.

you know what's awesome for a half hour or so is image searching "manul"

i also feel shame walking around (having no job, i've actively avoided it since nov 8 other than walking my dog). i want to wear a "trump is a terrible racist" shirt and somehow exempt myself from association with the vast majority of white people. but as much as i feel that, i know that my anger and shame are not and cannot be on the same level as the real fear that a lot of people of color are feeling. like what banjoboy said, just a few posts up. that's so heartbreaking to read. i can't imagine living it. it makes me so sad and angry.

I have to believe Trump will speak out against this hatred and violence his supports are spreading. I know it might seem like wishful thinking, but if the man has any shred of decency in his bones, he has to. The tweet posted above doesn't give me hope but as things get worse and I fear they will, please I have to think he will.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/and-here-we-go--9

Paul Ryan just announced that as part of repealing Obamacare he plans to phase out Medicare and replace it with private insurance for retirees.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/paul-ryan-says-medicare-privatization-is-on.html

i don't know what it would look like but i feel like i need some kind of kip thread to help get through all this (not just the above which i think is minor compared to a lot of the other stuff i and others are going thru) and it sounds maybe like some other posters could use one too.

Mordy in all seriousness I was thinking that we need a "safe space" thread where people can just freak out and connect and get reassured, leaving the politics talk to this thread and the other ones running.

https://medium.com/@Brocktoon/lexington-c1825d25442e#.qsa7gluua

I live in Trump country currently. Yesterday morning I was walking down the street and I wanted to get my head inside my best approximation of a Trump supporter I could come up with. I imagined the world where the "right order" was restored with white Christian straight men on top, and people of color, Muslims, immigrants, Jewish people, and women lower, in their right place, no longer ascendant under Obama and the SJWs.

It felt ... good in a way, powerful. "This is our world again." No longer have to deal with people who are different because they're firmly in their place again and we've got a "mandate" to keep them their. Comfortable. Peaceful. I got it out of my mind quickly because it just felt evil, like drinking poison. I watched some vines on Twitter of black kids goofing around and it made me miserable to think about what they're going to have to deal with under Trump. That's not the way I want the world to be.

I also received a fundraising postcard for the law school I went to, and it's parent school is a Jewish university. One of my neighbors (we share a mailbox) is a die-hard Trump supporter and subscribes to some sketchy alt-right shit, and that made me a little nervous to think of this Trump guy assuming I'm Jewish.

My heart goes out to all of you who have to deal with this bullshit for real in day to day life now. I know that's worthless from some random internet weirdo, but I don't know what the hell I can do. I'm definitely not becoming one of these Trump legitimizers, though.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clintons-vaunted-gotv-operation-may-have-turned-out-trump-voters_us_582533b1e4b060adb56ddc27?ka603sor

The campaign’s text messaging GOTV effort may have been the worst offender. Volunteers reported as many as 30% of the replies they received from voters they were urging to get out were Trump supporters.

"may have been" is doing a lot of work here without any proof but in general, what was happening in the field wasn't making its way into the data machine. i don't know why - i trusted the process at the time completely, especially because obama 2012 was so successful and david plouffe was consistently reassuring that the structure of the race was unchanged and clinton would win easily

https://medium.com/@Brocktoon/lexington-c1825d25442e#.qsa7gluua

good read, thanks

hillary clinton's approval ratings are going to go back up to like 70% really soon right, and the pundits on cnn will be saying how likable and authentic she is

re: medicare privatization/ryan budget crap, i am HOPING someone like chuck schumer is wise enough to subtly convince trump that paul ryan would get all the credit for this if it passed, the horrible GOP establishment paul ryan who didn't do enough to support his party's nominee

The image I can't forget: yesterday morning, waiting for the intercampus shuttle, I saw a student in the class I was about to head to. She said, "Professor, I'm Mexican. My family is all legal and I'm a citizen. But the new president called us rapists and murderers."

medicare thing is crazy overreach and it will blow up in their face

Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate right off the bat and she did nothing to ameliorate her major issues. The last thing she needed was a robot running her campaign.

one upshot of all this is that even though his cabinet is going to be filled with people who suck like Newt Gingrich, he's going to be constantly firing and replacing them

― qop (crüt), Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:24 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm god i hope so

well it'll be an interesting early case bc if he can't privatize medicare he certainly isn't taking on supreme dictatorial power xxp

I hope to God they decide to try that first, privatize Medicare.

also I'm reposting this because it's really good and important imo

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

medicare thing is crazy overreach and it will blow up in their face

wasn't it exactly this that blew up in george w bush's face after the GOP controlled both the WH and congress after the 2004 election? social security i think

Medicare scheme would make a great chance for a truly diabolical Trump to surprise-veto some deeply unpopular bullshit from Establishment Paul in the name of The People. They sent him there after Obamacare, now it's Medicare?! He makes a big show of defeating the proposal, approval shoots up, Ryan gets primaried and replaced by a Trumpling. Yay.

The next four years are just a wasteland of no-win scenarios. I hope Trump chokes to death on a loose bone from KFC on January 19.

Privatizing Medicare will either break their stranglehold on old white people or they'll all die from lack of care.

OTOH, my mom starts Medicare in December after pay $700/mo for a bronze plan for the last two years so fuck Ryan with a hot poker.

I liked that article tombot, but as an aside I really hate 'love trumps hate' as a protest statement. feel like there's never been a less appropriate time for cute little puns.

xp

Medicare scheme would make a great chance for a truly diabolical Trump to surprise-veto some deeply unpopular bullshit from Establishment Paul in the name of The People. They sent him there after Obamacare, now it's Medicare?! He makes a big show of defeating the proposal, approval shoots up, Ryan gets primaried and replaced by a Trumpling. Yay.

yeah on some level it might be worse than he's not an ideologue and accidentally can do the right thing once in a while

Fucking hell what a month. Was sick as hell, my parents came to visit and my mom woke me up at 5:30 three weeks ago because my dad was unresponsive, I got to call 911 for the first time, he spent three days in the hospital 70 miles away and ended up with a pacemaker, then I got sick again, and now this. I had the crazy heart beat and four hours of sleep Tuesday night, went to a faculty meeting Wednesday morning that felt like a wake and everyone was crying, and have lived in a haze where I've been cycling through the Kubler-Ross stages since then and have settled on angry for a while.

Today one of my students was losing his shit because somebody spray painted "fag" on his boyfriend's car, and one of my many latino students asked for an deadline extension because of some shit that broke out with Trump supporters. When I got home my friend from Venezuela started texting me in a panic cause he thought he was done with authoritarian bullshit and how fucked we are going to be. Then my kid chucked a block at my head, and the shitty christian band that practices across the street was way louder than usual and I went over and rained hell upon them.

On the plus side all of my students seem outraged, even some of the ones I worried were probably 4chan alt-right assholes, and a bunch of them were protesting on campus. And part of me feels like something like this was inevitable and would probably be bad in a different way had Hilary won, so maybe we can just get it over with now and these assholes will get riled up when they realize high-paying factory jobs won't suddenly appear in Dayton and Youngstown. Assuming everything doesn't end up in smoking ruins or just really really awful first.

Still going to get my son a passport soon just in case; I could make it to the canadian border in a couple hours.

In response to the possibility of the likelihood of Trump dropping dead before his four years are up or getting impeached or quitting before his term even begins, people have been pretty regularly responding that Pence would be worse. But Trump is both malleable and seemingly totally cool with passing the actual president-ing on to Pence anyway, so how exactly would that be worse than Pence as filtered through an unpredictable man baby?

because Pence is focused

Trump, in the past, expressed some not-insane opinions. He's malleable but not bright enough to have a coherent ideology of evil. He's Kylo Ren.

Pence, on the other hand, is Darth Vader.

Ted Cruz is old, melted Palpatine.

seriously spooked by that DJT tweet :(

Uh, yeah. So much for dialing back the crazy after you win the election.

On the other hand, lol @ "Melania and Michelle got along very well"

Who's organizing to keep protests ongoing? We don't need to blow up in an orgy of anger now, protests need to be day-in-day-out for four years to drive him into saying and doing more and more crazy shit. Different city every night, only have to turn out once a month.

I liked that article tombot, but as an aside I really hate 'love trumps hate' as a protest statement. feel like there's never been a less appropriate time for cute little puns.

Absolutely. The first two words are "love trump" and I read it often as "love Trump's hate" which...uh yeah, that's kind of what people are getting on board with

In response to the possibility of the likelihood of Trump dropping dead before his four years are up or getting impeached or quitting before his term even begins, people have been pretty regularly responding that Pence would be worse. But Trump is both malleable and seemingly totally cool with passing the actual president-ing on to Pence anyway, so how exactly would that be worse than Pence as filtered through an unpredictable man baby?

― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:46 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

because Pence is focused

― sleeve, Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:48 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah.

I mean, Trump's unpredictability (and temperament, and narcissism, etc) is worrisome, but I for one would be more frightened of the people he is likely to surround himself with. I honestly believe that Trump wanted to be president so he will have been president, and will leave all of the policy stuff to Pence, etc. That's scary.

*wanted to be president JUST so he will have been president

i don't see how the street protests are accomplishing anything! there's no goal, no training, no plan, just show up and then inevitably a handful of people will vandalize things live on cable news and how does this do anything but empower trump and his authoritarian calls for law and order?

Until Pence upsets him somehow. We see how things worked out with his campaign managers.

what do you think the protestors should do? they absolutely should be out there right now! just...uh please don't break anything

My husband thinks Pence will be the first one that Trump throws under the bus the first time there is any kind of disruptive outrage over something that Trump signed that he knew nothing about other than that Pence told him to sign it.

obama's graciousness with trump today seemed like it could have been part of a deep strategy. beyond just basic politeness he also tried to make inside quips with trump, giving him jokey tips on how to deal with reporters etc. hopefully, he is trying to win trump over via flattery and wield some influence over him. trump loves flattery, and what could be more exciting than having a world historic figure like obama as a friend?

it's also what they have to do - how primed was everyone on the Clinton side to roast Trump if he didn't concede?

by everyone I mean voters/supporters

this quote from today fucked me up

"We're going to move very strongly on immigration," he said. "We will move very strongly on health care. And we're looking at jobs. Big league jobs."

i don't see how the street protests are accomplishing anything!

They bother him so much that he stole his Twitter account back and started whining - two days after what should be the pinnacle of anyone's life.

At work I explained it like this, "it feels like we fired our CEO and replaced him with an 8 year old kid, and now all of us are going to spend our careers trying to figure out what he likes on his cheeseburgers and when his nap time should be to best avoid temper tantrums"

Constant protesting helps keep the media from normalizing Trump and his behavior over the next four years.

i have a very liberal and sympathetic friend who is nevertheless convinced on principle that street protests, when they involve harm to others—in the technical sense, of any unmerited inconvenience, even—are unjust, i.e. immoral. he thinks, basically, the right to protest in public should always be upheld but that it can't disrupt the flow of life for people who don't want to pay attention to it. and he's ON OUR SIDE.

i've already seen a handful of 'independents' or trump supporters or whomever in the past couple days in my extended network pointing to the protests as if they were morally equivalent to the incidents of harassment and violence this week. people who think like that will only ever be repelled by the constant protests we're in for. : /

On the day of the debate, Megyn Kelly writes, she woke up feeling great. Then an overzealous, suspiciously enthusiastic driver picked her up to take her to the convention center. He insisted on getting her coffee, though she’d repeatedly declined his offer. Once it was in her hand, she drank it. And within 15 minutes, she was violently ill, vomiting so uncontrollably that it was unclear if she’d be able to go on and help moderate that evening. It was so bad that she kept a trash pail beneath her desk throughout the debate, just in case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/books/review-megyn-kelly-tells-tales-out-of-fox-news-in-her-memoir-settle-for-more.html?_r=0

We already live in Russia.

I used to be something of a skeptic when it came to claims of “filter bubbles” — the sort of epistemic closure that comes from only seeing material you agree with on social platforms. People tend to click links that align with their existing opinions, sure — but isn’t that just an online analog to the fact that our friends and family tend to share our opinions in the real world too? I ate up studies (from Facebook and others) that argued the site actually encouraged a certain kind of information diversity, because your Facebook friends are likely drawn from a wider group of people (the guy you went to middle school with, your mom’s neighbor, that rando you met that weekend at the beach) than the people you discuss news with in real life.

But I’ve come to think that the rise of fake news — and of the cheap-to-run, ideologically driven aggregator sites that are only a few steps up from fake — has weaponized those filter bubbles. There were just too many people voting in this election because they were infuriated by made-up things they read online.

http://www.niemanlab.org/2016/11/the-forces-that-drove-this-elections-media-failure-are-likely-to-get-worse/

Organized protests are going to have less violence and fewer negative consequences than an outpouring of grief anyway.

xxp - people who think like that are a lost cause anyway when they have the option to choose a shitty politically incorrect maverick

Anyway, not that we need to point out the hypocrisy of the GOP any more, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you don't hear a fucking word about emails from pearl-clutching Republicans anymore. Keep hearing "Hillary should have won, but in the end she had too much baggage" and it's like....no she really didn't, you just decided to accept this weird story that she was a criminal and possibly a murderer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/books/review-megyn-kelly-tells-tales-out-of-fox-news-in-her-memoir-settle-for-more.html?_r=0

We already live in Russia.

"Next thing I knew, she was bleeding out of her...wherever"

guys what if the aliens show up while he's in office

Aliens from where

don't know if this was mentioned yet, I've been seeing this pop up on my fb feed from a number of sources. A simple way to show solidarity to any people who are feeling more at risk:

http://www.vox.com/presidential-election/2016/11/10/13586322/trump-brexit-safety-pin

I think Keith Ellison is a solid dude but why is an endorsement from a non-democrat such a great idea? Is Sanders considering joining the party again? Is he giving out ideas on RNC chairs next?

A bunch of friends have shared Sanders' endorsement and I am just like wtf

Way to reform from without and not within you fly by night candidate

Outer space, Evan, duh

My parents are on medicare after a decade-plus-long rough patch after my dad lost his job (he worked again and continues to, and a much lower salary, and never had employer insurance again), during which they paid out a huge part of their income to insurance premiums. I breathed such a sigh of relief a couple years ago when they finally got on medicare. I really do hope that's an overreach that blows up in their faces.

seems like bernie sanders has upset you, mh

I think Keith Ellison is a solid dude but why is an endorsement from a non-democrat such a great idea? Is Sanders considering joining the party again? Is he giving out ideas on RNC chairs next?

A bunch of friends have shared Sanders' endorsement and I am just like wtf

― mh 😏, Friday, November 11, 2016 12:21 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Way to reform from without and not within you fly by night candidate

― mh 😏, Friday, November 11, 2016 12:21 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No one gives a shit about this "not a real democrat" shit except the party insiders who lost this election.

He can endorse whatever he wants but someone who joined the democratic to run and then immediately left seems like a weird endorsement to share for an administrative position

it seems it would be pretty rich for 'actual' democrats to be all 'tyvm but we need to let people committed to our party make these decisions', given that they have no credible leadership

is there any reason he immediately left than for some sort of idealistic purity?

I mean, it's a party, which is a non binding thing in the US but idk wtf

Missed this one earlier: https://www.buzzfeed.com/aramroston/sources-donald-trump-listened-in-on-phone-lines-at-mar-a-lag

paintings with eyes that mysteriously follow you

is there any reason he immediately left than for some sort of idealistic purity?

I mean, it's a party, which is a non binding thing in the US but idk wtf

― mh 😏, Friday, November 11, 2016 12:27 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

All he is now is the Senator from Vermont and that's how his constituency elected him. Only seems right.

that article oo posted has this insane tidbit:

"...The day before the election, I looked at the Facebook page of the current mayor. Among the items he posted there in the final 48 hours of the campaign: Hillary Clinton Calling for Civil War If Trump Is Elected. Pope Francis Shocks World, Endorses Donald Trump for President. Barack Obama Admits He Was Born in Kenya. FBI Agent Who Was Suspected Of Leaking Hillary’s Corruption Is Dead.
These are not legit anti-Hillary stories. (There were plenty of those, to be sure, both on his page and in this election cycle.) These are imaginary, made up, frauds. And yet Facebook has built a platform for the active dispersal of these lies — in part because these lies travel really, really well. (The pope’s “endorsement” has over 868,000 Facebook shares. The Snopes piece noting the story is fake has but 33,000.)"

ok, long post here, this is from a friend of a friend on fb who was canvassing for the election in Ohio:

I wanted to share some illuminating insights on real, actual Trump & Hillary supporters I met while canvassing in Ohio.

I only met a handful of Trump voters. A couple of them were even African American. A few things REALLY surprised me:

- Yes, some folks are really, super racist, homophobic, and awful. I’ve had people scream at me: Hillary is a murderer! She broke the law & is being indicted by the FBI! Perverts can go into girls and boys bathrooms, and you Democrats make me sick! You get the picture. They have swallowed up the alt-right Breitbart lies & this is their reality.

- I met some undecided voters. One very nice, young woman said she didn’t like that Hillary was going to take away all her guns (not true), and she also didn’t like the email thing (no specifics). She didn’t like Trump because he was an asshole, but she was glad he released his taxes (dude, all caps NOT TRUE). I refuted the lies about Clinton & tried to correct her on Trump, but she still didn’t seem to understand. Or maybe she didn’t believe me — after all, I’m campaigning for one side. Clearly, she’s getting a lot of lies & misinformation, and no details — I would guess it’s from cable TV, shares on social media, quick headlines, memes, and her bubble of friends.

- I met one very thoughtful, college educated, African American man, early 30s, who was leaning towards voting for Jill Stein, because he was originally a Bernie supporter. He was staunchly anti-Trump, and liked Hillary, but couldn't decide. He’s married to a white woman who supported Hillary, and they were at home with their toddler. He said to me, “My wife says I’m throwing my vote away!” I said I agreed, because of the Electoral College. He didn’t understand what I meant. As we chatted for 15 min, it became clear to me that this man, living in Ohio, did not understand that we elect a President via the Electoral College. He didn’t understand that his vote was really crucial in determining who would be our next President. And this dude was a journalism major in college! He understood the issues, but before I knocked, he didn’t understand why his Ohio vote mattered so much more than my California vote. Even educated voters are busy — they don’t have the luxury of time to read print journalism. They might watch some TV news. They probably don’t listen NPR. They may not remember their civics lessons, if they even had one at all. Once he understood the impact of his vote, he was 100% behind Hillary.

- A Clinton staging office is usually someone’s house — a wonderful, generous soul who has opened up their home, morning through evening, for weeks. A Clinton operations director is assigned there, to prioritize, delegate and train GOTV volunteers as they come in. The homeowner is there, cheering everyone on. When I arrived at one staging office, I was greeted by the homeowner, who asked where I was from. “California, how wonderful! How’s it looking in California? Do you think Hillary has a chance to win there?” I said yes, Hillary was absolutely going to win CA, because it was very safely a blue state. She beamed, and excitedly told her friend who was visiting, and they cheered. This lovely woman, who was so supportive of Hillary Clinton that she has let complete strangers turn her house upside down for weeks, also did not seem to know basic info about the Electoral College! I get it now — truthful information can be hard to identify & process. There’s a lot out there. How can we do better to educate & inform the voting public?

- I met a young African American woman who voted third party. I met an African American man whose wife voted for Trump. I met a lot of people of color and white voters who voted as though it were a coin toss. I’m not kidding. When asked, they didn’t seem to know a whole lot about Trump — as though the nonstop scandals had just become a jumbled news salad, with nothing really sticking out to define him. Maybe they just recognized him as that flashy businessman on that TV reality show that they liked. They were familiar with the Clinton name, but didn’t know what she really stood for. They were all pretty tuned out.
My main takeaway from canvassing this time was that more than half of our electorate — the folks in the middle, who are neither far right nativists nor lefty progressives — they know little about the candidates. Lots of them do not vote. And if they do show up & vote, they are voting with a critical lack of information or an over abundance of misinformation. It is literally a coin toss for some of them. If you’ve read my previous post, this will sound familiar: I believe that one of the biggest problems is that cable “news" is really just reality TV posing as news, with little to no journalism or investigation of facts. And thanks to the GOP’s decades-long attack of the institution of journalism & the “liberal media," people don’t know who to trust for news anymore. They share memes & news articles without even knowing if what they are sharing is true. They believe conspiracy theories and unfounded rumors. They believe the lies that Trump spews out against Clinton, because TV news reporters don’t dig deep. They just report what people say, and give equal weight to both sides, as though the two candidates and their surrogates were equally reasonable people. For these voters, it’s "he said" versus "she said." They don’t know what or who to believe.

This election is, in part, a reflection of a complete failure of news outlets, and what happens when meaningful journalism is diminished, underfunded or undermined. Without journalism and trust in the free press, democracy is doomed.

Where can we start? I’m still thinking hard about this. For now, if you are an English or history teacher, please teach your students how to be journalists. Teach them how to vet sources of information, how to sift fact from fiction, and how to write a factual news article. It would prepare them well for college, to learn how to research. Have them analyze broadcasts from Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and present their findings. Have them research the whole story, and not just a sound bite. Have them analyze an NPR news report. If you’re a parent, tell your kid’s schools that you want an immersive course about the elections process. Teach students about the history of voter suppression, and how it still exists in many forms today. Teach them about gerrymandering. Insist that the students learn how to be good journalists & good citizens. They’ll be sharing more memes than we can possibly imagine, so let’s get them vetting facts first, so they can share the truth, or knock down a lie when they see one.

I’ll try to end this on a positive note:

While canvassing at dusk, I met a family. I didn’t know if they were pro- or anti-Clinton. Their kids were playing in the driveway. Mid-way through my pitch for Hillary, the husband said, "I have a felony conviction, and I've been told for years I can't vote. Is that true?" I told him the law varies by state; I looked it up on the ACLU website, and he did, in fact, have the right to vote. He nearly cried. This muscular tough guy looked at his wife in disbelief, "Honey, did you hear that? I can vote!" He looked at me and said with real sadness, "If I knew, I would have registered. That's why my wife is registered — she's really voting for me. I want Hillary to win."
Voter suppression, bad journalism, online misinformation & lies really do have an impact on our elections. Please consider the small things you can do locally to help us build a more informed and engaged electorate, one who can base their choices on facts & not lies.

And now… how do we win the Senate and House in 2018, when Democrats usually have record low turnout? I'll need to marinate on that one...

obama's graciousness with trump today seemed like it could have been part of a deep strategy. beyond just basic politeness he also tried to make inside quips with trump, giving him jokey tips on how to deal with reporters etc. hopefully, he is trying to win trump over via flattery and wield some influence over him. trump loves flattery, and what could be more exciting than having a world historic figure like obama as a friend?

― Treeship, Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:07 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ohhh, I thought this, too. Obama knows that flattering Trump wins out over any potential differences, and I'll bet he'd be able to play him like a fiddle were he so inclined.

I deeply admire that person's reaction to those people because I'd start carrying a flask and drinking heavily after the first one.

My main takeaway from canvassing this time was that more than half of our electorate — the folks in the middle, who are neither far right nativists nor lefty progressives — they know little about the candidates. Lots of them do not vote. And if they do show up & vote, they are voting with a critical lack of information or an over abundance of misinformation. It is literally a coin toss for some of them.

This is one point that seems both important and, in hindsight, obvious, yet not one I am seeing made by almost anyone

Good post. I saw a lot of people saying "how the fuck are there still undecideds?" during the last few weeks but that's just the truth, some people do not engage with political shit on any level. Disheartening to find that the late undecideds broke heavy for Trump and that the bullshit email story almost certainly had a lot to do with it.

Thank you so much for sharing that post, Moodles. That gives me some food for thought, as I'm thinking that education of the electorate has to be one of our main priorities in the coming days and months and years.

And honestly that's why I thought Debate #1 was gonna win it for Hillary - it was hyped up, the undecideds and disengaged were gonna watch, and he was going to get demolished. That all happened and it showed in the polls but.......yeah

God, education is so important. Here's some crucial information for an under informed voter: "By the way, nearly everything Trump says is a baldfaced lie. You can look it up yourself in real time. When he says 50, the real number could be 3,000, it could be 0. When he claims 'I never said X' there is almost certainly a tape of him saying X. He routinely makes up fake people and recounts fake interactions that the other party cannot corroborate. He once posed as his own publicist so he could brag to newspapers about cheating on his wife."

American high schools need to return to teaching about the obligations of citizenship. Even my old, highly-regarded high school no longer offers civics classes. When I went there, civics was mandatory for all 9th graders.

yeah, it was interesting to read the shared moodles post just after reading my aunt's comment on facebook: "What part of Hillary's character do th3se people believe makes her any better than Trump? I think everyone should give him, at least a year, before they pass judgement on his ability to turn America around for the better."

i was like "yeah he's a racist, that's one thing"

I'm pretty sure she did something for another person at least one time in her life

I'm thinking that education of the electorate has to be one of our main priorities in the coming days and months and years.

this would have been tremendously important either way, but it's at least doubly so now. genuinely flabbergasted that the discussion hasn't trended towards the face of trump's ten year old son as he stands at his father's side at 3AM or whatever to accept the presidency.

life is a long game, Leonard Cohen just passed at the age of 82 and we NEED to educate and otherwise take care of the children of this world pronto imo

https://medium.com/@Brocktoon/lexington-c1825d25442e#.qsa7gluua
Who’s on their side here? The Democrats? The ones who floated NAFTA? Who deregulated the banks? Who gutted unions which might’ve stepped in and mediated these ugly, ugly racial disputes?

Wait, is he talking about the same NAFTA that was negotiated by George Bush? Democrats helped pass it, but I don't see how they "floated" it. And by bank deregulation is he talking about the 1999 Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act which happens to be named after the three Republicans who co-sponsored it? And by what bizarre logic have Democrats been the ones to gut unions?

But sure, it's awfully sad that those racist small town white folks can't work at the non-union furniture factory anymore. Thanks Obama.

gramm-leach-bliley was passed by a veto-proof majority republican congress, but this never seems to get in the way of the "bill clinton was more republican than the republicans" narrative

One of the things I've noted from my overseas perspective is that a lot of the black rapper FB friends I have in Alabama seem really confused about the Electoral College. I saw a lot of "#RESEARCH
"..although Americans vote directly for their chosen candidate in the presidential election every 4 years, 👉the president is elected by the institution called the Electoral College👈" and "Electoral college picks the pres not us" posts in the weeks leading up to the election, with the subtext that voting did not matter since the establishment would disregard whatever votes they did not like and go for their own candidate anyway.

Earlier today, one of the younger ladies I work with asked me if I cried, and after a moment of wondering if it was a serious question, I admitted that "yeah I was furious in the middle of the night and then when i woke up I cried some."

I was encouraging these kids to vote, and they deserve to know that the outcome hurts me.

fantasies!

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-election-tie-519696

instinctive "oh for fuck's sake" when I read that tweet

Wouldn't professional protesters be hired rather than incited?

Thanks to improvements in technology we can have tragedy and farce at the same time!

I'm frustrated by the extent to which the discussions on the Left following Trump's election are all happening within the landscape the right has constructed over the last year. They're not dismissing the narratives of 'corrupt Clinton' vs 'Mr Sanders goes to Washington', or of the 'warmongering dems' vs the 'anti-war Trump', or of 'identity politics' vs 'working people' etc. etc.

In some ways this has all been a victory for the young 'class-only' left who want a socialism without content, without analysis. We've done the class-only thing before - we can't go back to the pre-70s unionism that focused on white men and became an organ of oppression for women and minorities. You can't focus on class and ignore the rest. There is no trickle-down emancipation.

Before focusing on which candidate would have won, if any, imagining that the problem was the options people were presented, we have to ask why people made the wrong choice (and it was the wrong choice) - no matter what would have been better, why did people on the day choose to abandon women and minorities, so mutilate the chances of 'progressive politics' in the future.

Trump has given Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie, Newt Gingrich, and Mike Rogers the nation's highest security clearances - NBC News

Newt please save our country

When asked how a system of registering Muslims would be carried out — whether, for instance, mosques would be where people could register — Mr. Trump said: “Different places. You sign up at different places. But it’s all about management. Our country has no management.’’

Asked later, as he signed autographs, how such a database would be different from Jews having to register in Nazi Germany, Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “You tell me,” until he stopped responding to the question.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donald-trump-says-hed-absolutely-require-muslims-to-register/

The Trump train really does have no brakes.

So for the Right to accept state actions you just have to call them management? You should have been pushing for gun management, damn it.

If vast chunks of the working class, blue color, the poor, the isolated and complacent and others truly have no or little idea how voting works, how elections work, how the country works, how the courts work, then they have been failed by almost every institution, on almost too many levels to fix. News. Education. Local politics. National politics.

I have a cousin in Maryland of indeterminate intelligence and political allegiance. I have no idea where she falls on either front, but I know she is very well-off and comfortable. And also, she exercises a lot. This is what she posted the other day:

There have been 6 terms of republican presidents since the Roe vs Wade decision. Over turning that decision was not on any one of those presidents list of things to do during their term. Why do people always assume that decision will be overturned when a republican president is elected?

Like, just try to parse that degree of ignorance, however innocent (or even not) the impetus behind it.

Chuck Schumer said he endorses Keith Ellison as DNC chair.

that muslim registration thing is from a year ago. not that it isn't horribly disturbing; but trump has walked it back sicne and also scrubbed all of it from his website. so I think they've realized doing that would be a very, very, very unconstitutional thing to do

With my day off, I watched a pretty remarkable -- yes -- "Morning Joe" segment in which for thirty minutes Michael Moore said shit about Trump that you won't hear on any other political gas bag show.

i'd written moore off but now I feel like that was a mistake this time; he seemed to nail the outcome of this election perfectly in advance (so did van jones back in the summer).

I thought a number of sources were accentuating the importance of going and voting to counter the one load of assured/dedicated voters.
Would have thought that the one lesson that could be taken from Brexit would have been the importance of every vote. But I'm not sure how Brexit figures in the US mindscape, other than Trump having put it forward as essentially positive.

I'd say with a great deal of certainty that a sizable number of Americans have never heard about Brexit and therefore have no opinion about it whatsoever.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw7KZlxVEAAkMt9.jpg

Do people think that protesting at the moment is a good idea? I won't tell people what to protest about, but...well, I guess I'm going to do that anyway. I really think protesting at the moment is a bad idea - when you're punch drunk and dazed it's good to sit in your corner for a minute.

Protesting won't do much, but it will raise the picture of some people that are not pleased right now.

This raises the issue - does Trump get these people on side, or slag them off and continue without them?

I was on the fence about the usefulness of protesting the election results until president elect Trump petulantly tweeted about the unfairness of that constitutionally-protected right, so now I think it basically needs to continue every single day for the next four years.

There are a lot of reasons to protest. I joined the march in NYC a couple nights ago and god, was it reaffirming to just hear this tremendous background roar of voices, be amongst so many other people who were hurting, to have this visible sense of not being alone. It served an important need for a lot of people. Also think there may potentially be something to letting people all over the country who are afraid of what this regime will do to them, that they have allies. Not saying it's the best or final step in that effort but I don't see a strong reason NOT to do it.

American high schools need to return to teaching about the obligations of citizenship. Even my old, highly-regarded high school no longer offers civics classes. When I went there, civics was mandatory for all 9th graders.

― jane burkini (suzy), Friday, November 11, 2016 5:51 AM (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

We had it too but it made no impression on me whatsoever. It was taught by a cranky old guy, we didn't go out and register to vote or work on a campaign or learn about our local politicians (because in a town of 3000 people, the politicians are your next-door neighbors and the school wouldn't be able to get away with educating ppl about them in case it caused any CONTROVERSY), and afaict it was completely useless. So not that kind of civics, pls.

This raises the issue - does Trump get these people on side, or slag them off and continue without them?

depends if you believe him last night or in the morning

now that he's not running, watching him bitch and moan about the large swaths of the population who rightfully hate his guts should be rather interesting

The idea of showing solidarity is a good one, not quite as good as a higher turn out meaning the vote went the other way.
But since there is the closeness in voting it is good to show taht there are loads of people that do find this result inherently wrong.
JUst hoping that the right to protest doesn't wind up being curtailed over the next 4 years.

You guys, I have a full-time Americorps volunteer working with/for me this year, and since that program is federally funded and has to have approval of Congress, there are A LOT of restrictions on what the workers are and aren't allowed to do, like oh, hilariously, they're not allowed to talk to girls about their options in case of unwanted pregnancy. Even when their specific job is to mentor teens for the purpose of getting them ahead in life and not letting them get trapped in their teenaged mistakes, they can't even answer a single question about abortion.

Here's another thing they can't do: THEY CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN ANY ACTIVITY THAT HAS THE EFFECT OF HELPING PEOPLE REGISTER TO VOTE. That's right! Congress wouldn't approve the funding for the national service corps unless they were forbidden from registering citizens to vote.

So I'm thinking register the fuck out of our school community from this point on, what do you think?

I think the protests are very good

Just please, please, please, don't get violent or start breaking things, the last thing we need is more "Hillary thugs" headlines on FOX and a cry that we do not live in a "law and order" society anymore

people in oakland already started smashing shit up, they always do

The civics teachers at my school were great - even if you were not an A student, they got everything across to the class and centred on both our rights and obligations as citizens. There hasn't been a teenager who wasn't at least curious about knowing their rights and they engaged us with their teaching.

Just please, please, please, don't get violent or start breaking things, the last thing we need is more "Hillary thugs" headlines on FOX and a cry that we do not live in a "law and order" society anymore

― frogbs, Friday, November 11, 2016 9:21 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nothing they do or don't do will change the right wing's notion of their lawlessness and illegitemacy.

Holy shit Harry Reid:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_Oc1lWIAAPz4K.jpg

more voter suppression laws, stacking the justice system with right wing ideologues.. and worst i really do worry about some kind of unexpected major crisis through which he suspends/ignores the rule of law and the GOP continues to go along with it.. and i mean i worry that if he doesn't get one, he'll create one, tanking the economy, starting another war

I think daria-G is relentlessly correct in this thread.

So many people I talk to in person and interact with online, who are already volunteering, donating, etc, are saying "I hope someone figures out what more we can do to stop this" and the response is kind of an eerie silence, eh?

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/ideas/images/2/21/Boom-graphic.png/revision/latest?cb=20141108172854

XP

The pope’s “endorsement” has over 868,000 Facebook shares

As if to correct the record:

"I am not sure whether we still can vouch for the faith of American Christians, as they need more wisdom looking at the leader they finally elected", said Pope Francis.

yeah I can only hope that rolling back progressive policies just proves to be massively unpopular amongst the public at large which gives a lot of people in Congress pause. There are more people in government than the Christies, the Palins, the Giulianis, the Ryans, etc etc. Trying to rollback marriage equality strikes me as something that would be incredibly unpopular in a way that it would not have been 10 years ago. I would also hope that blowing up the Paris agreement when alarmist climate science has become somewhat mainstreamed would also spark massive backlash. Probably just wishful thinking though (that it would happen, or that it would matter to them)

self-xp: Actually, that seems an iffy site. Looking for confirmation from other news sources.

and YES coolpope is totally OTM with this. even if he didn't actually say it, it would be OTM if he did say it. if you elect Donald Trump, Christian values are simply not that important to you. PERIOD.

and not that we need to point this shit out any further but fucking lol @ Newt "What's going to happen to the moral fiber of our country if the president receives a BJ?" Gingrich is going to play a major role in the "Grab her by the pussy" administration

the last thing we need is more "Hillary thugs" headlines on FOX and a cry that we do not live in a "law and order" society anymore

these headlines will be written anyway! their truth value for FOX and their viewers is not based on how many protesters actually break anything, as evidenced by trump's repeated and utterly baseless invocation of paid "hillary thugs" at his rallies.

I mean dude was cheating on his own wife at the time, newt is just a not-rich donald trump xp

Harry Reid's whole statement is worth reading.

http://www.reid.senate.gov/press_releases/2016-11-11-reid-statement-on-the-election-of-donald-trump

Obviously mass meetings can be wonderful for morale and comfort - I would just avoid the sense of it being a protest, which just ends up seeming undemocratic. A carnival of like minded people celebrating diversity and community would be a better spin.

Er, sorry? How are protests undemocratic? If you mean specifically protests somehow challenging the legitimacy of the election that would be one thing to discuss (although it gets tricky if, say, the protest is challenging the electoral college - or, in 2000, Bush V. Gore also - as being undemocratic)... but getting out in the street and saying "I think this leader and what he stands for are both awful bullshit" is a legitimate form of speech in a democratic society.

the folks who are irritated by protests are not wont to look any more charitably at multi-culti celebrations of diversity

Yeah I've always been skeptical of the effectiveness of a protest to successfully "bring awareness" to an issue but given how many Trump voters apparently were unaware that their vote was legitimizing hate speech and literally making children cry, I totally support it 100%

the folks who are irritated by protests are not wont to look any more charitably at multi-culti celebrations of diversity

You are underselling the establishment-focused Democrats who are convinced that protesting Trump now means there will be carte blanche given to the right to protest whomever the next left-leaning person to the win the Presidency is and are afraid that the sentiment will destroy our democracy.

My main response is "America is already dead based on the outcome of this election so I really don't give a shit what this hypothetical future protest you're concerned about is"

been seeing photos from friends protesting in Chicago and NYC the past few days. im 100% supportive of them. imo they should just do what they gotta do and ignore what the media/establishment thinks of them as a general rule.

My main response is "America is already dead based on the outcome of this election so I really don't give a shit what this hypothetical future protest you're concerned about is"

essentially this but in both directions. idgaf about ppl concern trolling the protesters and honestly i don't really think the protests matter much either. i think we're fucked either way so if it makes ppl feel better to protest then they might as well bc i have yet to find something that makes me feel better.

Donal j trump has had our ear for going on two years now, flooding the public sphere with hatred, incitAtion to violence, assaults on the most basic constitutional tenets, and downright treasonous statements. He has not only gotten away with it, bu has been rewarded for it. His supporters have gotten what they wanted. Eh, I think protest is more than called. What happened is unacceptable.

i keep asking myself if this is how ppl felt in germany in 1933 and i've gotta think that no, they were probably more hopeful bc they hadn't yet seen what the worst could look like yet.

Or call them anything but "protests" (or worse) regardless.

Trumpers rode in on a wave of propaganda, mudslinging, and full-blown lies. Expect that to continue and to escalate, and never underestimate the power of an outrageous story - no matter how manifestly untrue - to take root in minds primed to believe the worst about any Other.

A friend went from the "protests are hurting things, the democratic process has happened and like it or not we have a new president" to half a day later posting "wait, the electoral college could vote against Trump!" to this morning posting something about how he will no longer be posting anything about politics

Uh that was in response to this: folks who are irritated by protests are not wont to look any more charitably at multi-culti celebrations of diversity

http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/kkk-celebrating-trumps-election-with-victory-parade/

my nice person facade of talking reasonably to people about politics is fading and when I see shit like "protests won't help" coming from presumed democrats I want to yell whatever the equivalent of "CUCK!!!" would be

is it still cuck, can I use that unironically

X-post to doc cass - I said they would seem undemocratic. For lots of people, and the media, it just seems like protesting that things didn't go their way.

guys, this is how it goes, this is how it always goes.

there are a lot of us, and we're not monolithic, and the vast majority of us say over and over again, no violence, no violence, no violence, but everybody's mad, a lot of people are mad, and we don't have control over people's minds, we can't ensure that nobody who hates trump will ever do anything bad ever again. and when somebody does something like that, we'll say "they don't speak for us", and they'll say "we speak for them", and who do you think the media are going to believe?

we don't have control over the "optics", we don't have formal power structures backing us up, and a lot of people are going to ask us to do the impossible and then blame us when we can't.

i'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned about these things, but i think the question is for whose benefit we need to be concerned. and we need to be careful and judicious and precise about what we do and how we do it not because of how it will look to others. we need to do it for our own sake. we need to be the best we can be. any form of non-compliance or resistance, whatever form it takes, will be judged, and it will probably not be judged fairly. we need to expect this and build this into our outlook.

This (protests) is a difficult topic to address adequately via message board posts (esp when you're typing it on cellphone with one thumb). There's a lot of strategic and tactical considerations. Seems corny to say this on ilx but most everyone here has a point. If we were at dinner or a meeting together I'd attempt some grand, nuanced synthesis, and then you'd all see what a pompous blowhard i can be.

We need a Trump FAP!

yes!

set the time and place

rushomancy I'm delegating blowhard duties to you (iow: otm)

We might need more than one ... It's a big country

road trip!