Vice Principals with Danny McBride and Walton Goggins

Looks promising:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Pf1-B_fOU

I could watch Walton Goggins in anything. Looks great.

y is the trailer's mcbride/goggins ratio so topheavy

love both of these guys, will watch

I was worried they'd have Goggins as the fun-hating straight man to McBride's wackiness, vv glad this is clearly not the case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Pf1-B_fOU

anything that puts goggins back on my screen once a week is good by me

this was amazing

first impressions: clearly not eastbound caliber - but at the time most people didn't think eastbound would be as good as it ended up being so there's that

goggins doing foppish southern dandy is fuckin hilarious

Yeah I saw the first ep and this was p funny. I may be lucky in that I've not seen either actor in anything else so I didnt come in with any preconceptions.

this is an A+ cast, looking forward to it

I thought this was funny as fuck and showed much promise, it seems to have been taking a pounding from the critics though.

i realized that hbo now has shows called veep, vice principals, and vice

I thought this was funny as fuck and showed much promise, it seems to have been taking a pounding from the critics though.

― calzino, Wednesday, July 20, 2016 3:50 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know it's not a new thing but the fact there already exists criticism of a tv show that aired this week still creeps me out

loved McBride being mean to Busy Phillips' bf

not trolling but this fell into "weak but watchable" for me. Mostly i find McBride's schtick exhausting but Goggins makes up for a variety of sins. gonna give it another three or four eps.

McBride skeptics GTFO

the first episode of Eastbound and Down sets a very high bar for any subsequent debuts imo. This show appears to be structured differently, more of a slow burn so far rather than wall-to-wall punchlines but the cast is great and the interplay between Goggins and McBride is the obvious center. Goggins' southern dandy w/Korean bride and mother-in-law is A+

I thought the first episode was a little staid, but they really brought it in ep 2. Loved the scene in the House and during prayer.

yeah second episode really steps it up.

there were some funny jokes but does anyone else find it kind of uncomfortable that the premise of this show is two entitled white dudes vs. a clearly very intelligent black woman?

then again i stopped watching east bound & down when it got super bleak. so maybe i'm just sensitive and not smart enough for edgy humor.

there were some funny jokes but does anyone else find it kind of uncomfortable that the premise of this show is two entitled white dudes vs. a clearly very intelligent black woman?

― ian, Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:09 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they're both idiots, though

well, McBride is. both shows are p tightly centred on his humiliation

i mean, i understand that the characters are bad people. but i'm not convinced a statistically significant portion of the viewers won't see them as the underdog heroes.

it's just a bad look to me. but like i said, i'm not the hugest mcbride guy.

two entitled white dudes vs. a clearly very intelligent black woman?

this is part of the joke

idk how anyone could view these two jackasses as sympathetic protagonists they're both clearly horrible people

trump voters.

now, i'm not saying it's bad.
i'm just saying i don't like it.
and i think the premise is ultimately just sad.

some people will never understand satire, this doesn't mean that satire is wrong/inappropriate

bro i just said i didn't think it was bad. i certainly never used the word inappropriate.
i just don't like it, and it makes me sad.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oZC8QjCJSy0/UbfIbBuoFhI/AAAAAAAAJxc/HGY3dG9gnnM/s1600/Hop+on+Pop.jpg

idk, you guys can think i'm wack or lame or whatever but i'm glad i'm not the only one who finds this show unpleasant.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/hbo-vice-principals-tv-review.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/tv/2016/07/hbos_vice_principals_is_an_agg.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2016/07/hbo_s_vice_principals_reviewed.html
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/jul/15/vice-principals-hbo-danny-mcbride-walton-goggins-review

hey, ian, shakey waved the satire wand and therefore any perceived ugliness or meanness to the spirit of the show must be disregarded otherwise you hate freedom and are a stick in the mud.

god you two are as bad as kenny rogers and walter goggles

i mean anything that is satirical is valuable and good so i guess you are right.

i'm off to my SJW meeting now so i'll have to check in later.

I'm just a little mystified that you think a show portraying two dunderheaded amoral white guys trying to take down a competent black woman is somehow mean or ugly idgi if anything it's a simple portrait of the reality of America

But in Eastbound, you could root for former professional baseball player and unrepentant redneck Kenny Powers to get his mojo back

what is this moronic position - for 99% of Eastbound Kenny was a fucking horrible sociopath

it's ugly because there are people out there exactly like the two protagonists, who fear for their white male society, who are the people voting for trump, who are the people who think blues matter. people who use homophobic and misogynistic insults to make themselves feel powerful. it's ugly. frankly i'm a little mystified that you're mustified. but i didn't realize u were shakey so i guess it all makes sense now.

that should say "blue lives matter"

maybe it's funny to you. to see a black woman's home burned down because she got a job she was qualified for. maybe that makes you laugh. it is not funny to me. it's sad.

there is a lot of having your cake and eating it too with contemporary tv 'satire.' mike judge does it with silicon valley. it's analogous to the trump phenomenon of any attention being a good thing and any credence given to a subject no matter how ironic or 'savage' or w/e immediately becoming a reinforcer of that reality.

i'd rather watch a movie about how a black woman succeeds as an educator despite the narrow-minded ignorance of her co-workers. i'd even be okay if it had a few dick jokes.

maybe it's funny to you. to see a black woman's home burned down because she got a job she was qualified for. maybe that makes you laugh. it is not funny to me. it's sad.

i don't think it makes much difference. the humor is in the eye of the beholder. i don't think it's a funny scene, period. if viewers think "haha these guys are morons" that's a valid viewpoint but so is "haha that bitch got what was coming to her."

I'm confused in general when race matters and when it doesn't. I was brought up not to see it, and see and treat everyone as the same. I've seen this show and honestly did not even consider a reading like Ian and the other media critics are offering...

i'd rather watch a movie about how a black woman succeeds as an educator despite the narrow-minded ignorance of her co-workers. i'd even be okay if it had a few dick jokes.

― ian, Tuesday, July 26, 2016 6:11 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this line keeps running through my head over and over in the mr monopoly voice and i'm losing it

wish you would lose your login tbh

race always matters to someone. if you were brought up to treat everyone the same that's great, but it's also a convenient excuse for ignoring the huge problem w racism in america -- i was always taught that skin color doesn't matter too, but i'm still acutely aware that people of color often endure struggles of which i am completely ignorant.

the monopoly guy has a voice???

True

I agree that this show isn't terribly successful at what it's trying to do, but this line from the second of ian's links is strange to me:

"After the previous principal (Bill Murray, in a cameo) leaves his post because his wife is dying (and there's a joke about that -– how hilarious!)"

Whether you thought the joke in Vice Principals was successful or not (this one landed for me), it seems like one should at least be open to the idea that this could be hilarious before watching a comedy.

But in Eastbound, you could root for former professional baseball player and unrepentant redneck Kenny Powers to get his mojo back

what is this moronic position - for 99% of Eastbound Kenny was a fucking horrible sociopath

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, July 26, 2016 4:58 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is true! but i still think we are rooting for him! that's kind of how allegiance in fiction works...

i mean, you're kind of rooting for him b/c he's just entertaining. and b/c you're privy to his inner life in a way that's not as true of other characters.

i fully accept that eastbound & down is "anti-social" in the midcentury sense

xp kinda like Michael in the US Office, which I'd guess may be a good reference for understanding why someone would find this show unenjoyable

i like the first few seasons of the office, but eastbound and down seemed determined not to get stuck in the same kind of rut as that show, by switching it up each season

also by, you know, getting cancelled

Eastbound and down was cancelled?

well, it's over in any case

not only not cancelled, they came back for an extra season a couple of years after stopping it on purpose

2nd ep was way better than 1st

the trashing the principals house scene was great bc of how long and deranged it was

its def supposed to be uncomfortable to watch, im not abt to read recaps abt it but prob if one has a large problem w it, dont watch a danny mcbride/jody hill show prob

Hill's stuff is the definitive document of macho white American insecurity, even moreso than the peak Ferrell vehicles, precisely because it flirts with outright ugliness. it only falters when it likes its characters too much (which is why, though it would be better with McBride as star, Observe and Report is imo his best thing)

meant to say *current* macho white insecurity, and shit's hardly limited to the States really

*watches taxi driver*

ugh, the way this guy hates women and gay people is not good to me, its sad. i don't think its a good movie period. if viewers think "omg this guy is a moron" that's a valid viewpoint but so is "haha those people he shot got what was coming to them."

i'd rather watch a movie about a politician inspiring a town to come together and fighting for better outpatient treatment for people with mental illness.

i think taxi driver is similar to e&D in that the proximity we have to the protagonist, our access to them, makes us somewhat sympathetic to them even though we can also apprehend them as awful. added to that is the visceral thrill of misbehavior.

but i also think that E&B (and mcbride) does work a little harder to make the protagonist perversely likable, even if it continually undercuts that (in fact that's kind of the basic pattern of the show)

imo Taxi Driver revels in its violence and transgression more than O&R does, the latter literally features its protag failing a psych evaluation

yeah the comparison only goes so far. one is a comedy, the other is deadly serious.

I feel guilty now for just thinking the house-smashing scene was ridic and hilarious.

can this thread be a safe space for us to Lol at problematic show we like in peace? is that so much to ask?

so far 2 ways this differs from eastbound

-way darker. Kenny powers was an egomaniac but ultimately a good guy. Goggins is just pure vengeful evil from the get-go.. and he's dragging mcbride down with him
-less Actual Jokes, particularly the imagist innovations-in-vulgarity which were sprinkled across eastbound every minute (was recently fondly remembering 'he looks like a bag of mashed up assholes' from the first ep)

best moment in e2 was when they were making faces at each other while the principal was leading a prayer

otm on both pts

can this thread be a safe space for us to Lol at problematic show we like in peace? is that so much to ask?

― flopson, Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:10 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sounds like a pretty boring thread tbh

so... don't post in it

*watches taxi driver*

ugh, the way this guy hates women and gay people is not good to me, its sad. i don't think its a good movie period. if viewers think "omg this guy is a moron" that's a valid viewpoint but so is "haha those people he shot got what was coming to them."

i'd rather watch a movie about a politician inspiring a town to come together and fighting for better outpatient treatment for people with mental illness.

― woke-ing class zero (s.clover), Wednesday, 27 July 2016 02:41 (14 hours ago) Permalink

Hey Sterling go fuck yourself.

hey just wanna make sure this is a discussion happening in 2016th year of our lord

theres a show where two white dudes get passed over for a promotion by a black woman and then they destroy her things then burn her house down. is that right?

yes... now pls leave us alone

xp. also a lot of the "funny" lines are McBride calling people gay.

omg.. i fn hate you ppl

cool bro

xxxposts Counterpoint: beautiful post, s. clover.

Some of you guys are really bad at understanding comedy but I'm sure there is gentle comedy out there for you if you look hard enough.

countercounterpoint: most comedy is terrible and regressive, sorry i cant find it in my heart to yuck it up at racial terrorism

Here's a hint: successful black woman principal isn't the butt of the joke here. Also, McBride & Goggins are the protagonists but they are not meant to be sympathetic protagonists. Discuss.

clearly not capable of discussion

the reactions to finding this a bit iffy/not that funny sure are "interesting"

Like yes this is some trying-to-be 'edgy' evil white guy shit that tries to have it both ways (too-)subtly satirizing dumb racists but also reveling in immature laughter at offensive jokes, yes it's about Bad people who nonetheless have small pathetic chaotic triumphs of petty acts of evil set to pumped up music, yes probably some trump assholes or internet trolls *relate* to McBride's character in a creepy way... YOU GOT ME. now leave us alone!

https://whitegirlsbelike.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/kenny-powers-moped-gif.gif

I'm somewhat sympathetic with the viewpoint that a portrayal of reactionary white dudes who behave like eight-year-olds when they don't get what they want is sorta NAGL in the Age of Trump, but I think for me that's because they just happen to be more inescapable these days. Sociopathic dickholes (when presented as such rather than as heroes to be cheered on) are perennial comedy fodder for me.

^^^

Some of you guys are really bad at understanding comedy but I'm sure there is gentle comedy out there for you if you look hard enough.

― Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:17 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im sure u thought this was some emasculating burn here, but I LIKE GENTLE HUMOR and im not sure why that should be an insult or a refutation to me thinking this is fucked up.

is it possible that you dont think this is a fucked up ground for laughs bc you cant see yourself being the object of mcbride/hill's "ironic" bigotry?

the reactions to finding this a bit iffy/not that funny sure are "interesting"

― ælərdaɪs (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 1:22 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree that it's not as funny as Eastbound (kind of a black comedy western) and said as much above, my reaction is to ppl who *Dont Even Like Comedy* (wtf??? you don't like laughter??) trying to Stinkpiece it up in our thread

xxxp the fragility of your enjoyment of this show (I also enjoy this show) to that line of discussion and the resulting defensiveness could actually work as part of this show

wrong # of xps, but it probably belongs in 'posts I had second thoughts about' anyway

Some of you guys are really bad at understanding comedy but I'm sure there is gentle comedy out there for you if you look hard enough.

― Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:17 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im sure u thought this was some emasculating burn here, but I LIKE GENTLE HUMOR and im not sure why that should be an insult or a refutation to me thinking this is fucked up.

is it possible that you dont think this is a fucked up ground for laughs bc you cant see yourself being the object of mcbride/hill's "ironic" bigotry?

― 6 god none the richer (m bison), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 10:28 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think The Office proves that many people can be the object of an idiots terribleness and still enjoy laughing at a caricature of that idiot on TV

itt bunch of dudes being petty and shitty to each other and it's not as funny as i hoped it would be

imo perfect analogy for vice principals keep going

xxxp goddamnit beat me to it

im sure u thought this was some emasculating burn here, but I LIKE GENTLE HUMOR and im not sure why that should be an insult or a refutation to me thinking this is fucked up.

is it possible that you dont think this is a fucked up ground for laughs bc you cant see yourself being the object of mcbride/hill's "ironic" bigotry?

― 6 god none the richer (m bison), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:28 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I do have a history of engaging in emasculating burns, it's true, you caught me.

I like gentle humor, too. Agreement! I also like humor that is not so gentle, but I do not like humor that "punches down". This does not read to me like humor that is "punching down". Neither does it read to me like "ironic bigotry".

xxxp the fragility of your enjoyment of this show (I also enjoy this show) to that line of discussion and the resulting defensiveness could actually work as part of this show

― veggie sticks potato snacks (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 1:29 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thank you... now STFU ;-)

ilx demands you respect the genius comedy auteur Jody Hill who is incapable of terrible bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql-N3F1FhW4

FTR, I didn't think this was comedic genius but I basically love watching Danny McBride for ad libbed moments like saying 'Tacks' while throwing a handful of tacks at someone so this scratched the itch.

just FYI for my gentle comedy bros, detectorists is really great.
and fyi to the peeps who think that someone must not understand humor and satire to think this is unfunny and toxic -- think harder about things.

and now
http://https%3A//cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/18449008.jpg

needs more david gordon green

...or then again maybe it doesn't, i watched every episode of chozen :/

aw my meme didn't post.
it was a lousy meme anyway.

ian it is good to see u itt

hey m bison, since i don't have the game of thrones thread to read anymore i guess i've come to be a party pooper on this thread but imma just go back to my 78 groups on facebook and the occasional ILX thread about crime novels.

thank u for your kind words.

lol Game of Thrones is less "problematic" than this show?! gtfo

pooping on parties is a good example of gentle humor. mr rogers had an episode abt it once and its stuck w me ever since.

I suppose there's always a danger in centering a story around unsympathetic protagonists without clearly establishing that the audience isn't meant to side with them. I hope Grisham doesn't catch wind of this show.

shakey -- game of thrones has tons of problems, but it also has a whole lot more to offer. great (piss poor) comparison, as with taxi driver.

old lunch -- it's nothing new or exciting to have asshole protagonists. i just think this show revels in its cruelty and its hate and it makes it unpleasant to watch.

enjoy your hateful and spiteful entertainment.

~peace~

namaste

ian my man i get you, i can understand how this type of comedy can be at least a little wearying or depressing. i think JH might be going for that a little bit but then again his style of humor isn't quite mine either.

Rats, shakey beat me to the 'namaste'.

I want to sit and rewatch the two episodes that have aired with the critics itt and ask them, okay, please show me the rampant hate and cruelty and spite if you don't mind, just point it out when it happens, I'll wait.

Hey Sterling go fuck yourself.

― ian, Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:58 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hey buddy i don't go onto your threads about asmr self-help videos and fill them up with anime harambe memes

wtf

some weird beefs itt

I don't even understand the zings of these beefs

I got no beefs with ian, he did me a solid back in the day, we just disagree

There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys.

I want to sit and rewatch the two episodes that have aired with the critics itt and ask them, okay, please show me the rampant hate and cruelty and spite if you don't mind, just point it out when it happens, I'll wait.

― Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 11:23 AM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It seems like they'd at least point to the arson scene. "Reveling in cruelty and hate" is definitely what the two idiots are doing as their crime escalates from breaking and entering to arson. But the show seems to enjoy watching the two idiots dig themselves deeper and deeper graves as they revel. It even ends with Gamby taking the broach which is so obviously going to come back and threaten to hold him accountable for the arson.

Absolutely. Like.....do people think they're just gonna keep doing shit like this and get away with it?

Also, part of the humor here is the escalation. Gamby is all about sending half-literate letters to the school board and sifting through the principal's trash until the little Goggins on his shoulder pushes him into a whole other realm.

I don't know why this random example just occurred to me but I can see the McBride and Goggins arc taking a path similar to (if way more extreme than) Broderick's in Election.

haha yes def

one of ian's links brought up Election as a criticism, i.e. you are playing with important and edgy stuff so it had better pay off well as it did in Election

reposting: http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/hbo-vice-principals-tv-review.html

For another example of a work that takes magnificent pleasure in the Machiavellian plotting that happens at a high school, one need look no further than Alexander Payne’s Election to see how it can be done well. By comparison, Vice Principals suffers, partly from not quite nailing the proper tone and, admittedly, because of the moment in which it happens to be arriving.

thought there were many good points in that one, tbh

never seen Election, will check it out

goggins' character's sudden satanic blooming in the seduction/arson scene was more fight club than election i thought, but i've never seen fight club

i think the biggest issue w/this is that it's coming out right now, it's as poorly timed a launch as the debut of 24

xp- omg his little impish prance up to the family portrait :'D

I think if you're actually comparing the show with Election on a qualitative level it's going to come up short because Election is one of the GOAT comedy movies.

don't really think this show about a frustrated, humiliated white man being goaded by a demonic nihilist into acts of self-destructive violence for the sake of catharsis is particularly poorly timed

shades of peter verkhovensky in goggins imo: gladhanding goofball persona as wrapper for genuinely radical evil

for mcbride humiliation is motive but for goggins it seems more like excuse (cf also iago!)

sry to thinkpiece

xxxxp Also there are only two episodes of this out, right? Maybe wait until the end of a season before rushing to compare it to Election.

otm, i'm not willing yet to go any further than dostoevsky and shakespeare

Yeah, I see this going to some potentially interesting places. McBride likes his dumbshit comedy but he also likes his pathos. I can see him sobering up from Goggins's influence and attempting to set things right, with hilarious results.

never seen Election, will check it out

― flopson, Wednesday, July 27, 2016 3:38 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

modern classic IMO -- even if you haven't liked alexander payne's other films, this one is real good.

Yeah, basically just ignore the man behind the curtain. Shocking dropoff in quality after that one.

Mrs. Libby asking "open or closed?" as she exits Gamby's office gets me every time

that might be the moment of the show so far ^

don't really think this show about a frustrated, humiliated white man being goaded by a demonic nihilist into acts of self-destructive violence for the sake of catharsis is particularly poorly timed

― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:36 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

meant poorly timed in the sense that it was guaranteed, as a result of when it debuted, to elicit concerns about What It's Really Saying

Thinkpieces and zings aside, this is just not good.
Bonus points for "underage" nudity, what could be funnier

lol @ "I love you"

heh yes!

there was a lot of funny this ep, im glad I didn't bail on this show

great last line too: "this is our home now"

"who put the po po in your ho ho"

great episode, show's on a roll

I like this show a lot but Eastbound & Down has my heart

meant poorly timed in the sense that it was guaranteed, as a result of when it debuted, to elicit concerns about What It's Really Saying

― if young slothrop don't trust ya i'm gon' rhyme ya (slothroprhymes), Thursday, July 28, 2016 1:30 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

turns out it's probably the best critique of american masculinity we're going to get.

Chekhov's brass knuckles was great.

"I'm sorry you made me yell at you"

show is delivering imo

Catching up, watched the field trip ep last night. Bit of a detour ep but still so good. At it's most NO DONT DO IT DONT DO IT the show is verging on the genre of horror, imo

Goggins is really a joy to watch

it reminds me of alexander payne's better offerings, tbh

Also, if the race politics are headed where I think they are, I really like the show's gall. If they're not I might stop watching.

caught up now; the plotting in this is really good isn't it.

If anything I find the ex/daughter subplot a little distracting, but I guess it goes towards his motivations and whatnot.

Goggins is hilarious. Ive never seen him in anything before.

I've started up on Justified. Goggins reminds me a bit of Bruce Dern. Similar build, intensity and both have those crazy eyes.

Oh the spit bust wow

Also can we take a moment to acknowledge the awesomeness of Ray?

goggins in the hospital doing the unnecessary 360 and then shoving a clown was legit incredible

this has been weirdly all over the place tbh

Also can we take a moment to acknowledge the awesomeness of Ray?

― Quarter measures (sunny successor), Monday, August 29, 2016 2:46 AM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

YES

happy that this show has gotten better since the bitter arguments itt circa ep 2

tbh I was offended that Gamby wooed Miss Snodgrass

it's definitely gotten a lot funnier (or im more receptive the the humor) lately. the "guess the occupation" scene was really funny. and the deadpan "I'm high as a motherfucker."

still find this fucking terrible but tbh it's become a hate watch.

high point was the first 25 minutes of the episode with the shitty neighbor, felt like a good look into the brain of goggins, but the knucks save kinda defeated the purpose?

No that's the whole point, McBride had to brass knuckles the workout metal dude because Goggins, though evil, is too chicken to do face-to-face confrontations, he can only do weaselly backstabbing stuff (spiking the kool-aid with lsd, spitting in Brown's coffee--btw: deepest body squirm at when she catches him doing this after his plan to pit the union/school-board against here goes off without a hitch) and goad McBride into confrontations. crucial dynamic

a iago/othello dynamic

yup

i guess i just wish that the neighbor was a problem for more thna half an hour is all i am saying

Snodgrass falling for Gamby ruined this show.

i mean not that it was that good before.. but CMON ONNNNNN

I'm sure the rest of the series is going to be about their successful relationship

maybe, but it also feels (so far) that she's using him as a way to prop up her own ego after getting rejected by that other teacher, right?

xp!

STILL

it's fitting that woke chaki ambivalent this show cuz its sense of humor reminds so much of that of old chaki

One of the show's emerging threads is the study of unexamined white privilege, and it works great when it's implicating McBride and Goggins' assumption of Brown's incompetence. But I find the racial stuff embarrassing w/ the handling of Goggins' wife (manipulative Asian woman w/ draconian mother?) and also in the expression of the Brown family dynamic in the "Teacher Work Day" episode. In that case, the family roles are a little broad/stereotyped for my comfort, even if they aren't outright racist/ignorant.

On another tip, I think there's a lot more the show could do to annihilate the teaching profession, and skewer pretensions of public education. In "Eastbound and Down" I always liked the parts that were about actually baseball –– and professional sports –– as much as the interpersonal dynamics between Kenny and Stevie or whoever. But VP's school setting is really underused –- and the escalation of Brown's conflict w/ the crotchety old hippy teacher is interesting (so far).

manipulative Asian woman w/ draconian mother

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they get fleshed out in interesting ways in future episodes tbh, seems to be the strategy of this show so far with supporting characters

THERES LIKE 2 EPISODES LEFT

this shit aint getting renewed

there's 18 total planned iirc, idk why hbo wouldn't just let it ride

they already shot all of the episodes

OH MY BAD LOL i thought i saw a one of those ONLY TWO EPS LEFT things on hbo

Yeah this is a 2 seasons and done thing

I hope, Οὖτις, that Russell family life gets explored. It would be worthwhile, 'cuz there's a potentially funny setup there. Also wondered if in response to the weightlifter's knuckling he was going to try to revenge himself somehow.

this show is fucking good

Loved the use of Rachel Zeffira's music in the hospital scene.

huh, so

im not sure the show ever really got better but somehow i enjoyed this more and more as it went along. really curious to see where the rest of it goes, at least!

yea i laughed a lot @ this last ep, plot feels m/l incidental to me in a way but id really like to see more still

not sure how you do a second season after that ending

In an era of dark comedies, this is pretty bleak. I know who I think was behind the mask.

Behind the mask? my guesses: Mrs. Russell, Gamby's daughter, a cabal of women (secretary, Snodgrass), the jilted ex–, the theatre teacher?

Crazy neighbor guy?

wau @ finale. I think it's safe to say at this point that fears expressed upthread about how this was all about reveling in two lame white guys humiliating a black woman were very wide of the mark. I mean, she definitely gets humiliated but the payback and the consequences of what they've done are p extreme. "I'm not sure the show ever really got better but somehow I enjoyed this more and more as it went along" mirrors my own experience. This is an incredibly dark and painfully funny show, it's crazy the way they tread such a fine line between the two. All of the main characters are p nuanced - it's brutal about their failings but also sympathetic about their respective issues, I can't really think of anything else like it. It feels like much more of an ensemble show in that respect than Eastbound and Down, which was p much just solely focused on the buffoonery of Kenny Powers.

Those last 2 eps... D: and I did *not* see that ending coming.

The too-obv masked person is Russell, but it wont be him I guess. Or more, I'd be disappointed if it was him, as thats too easy.

But yikes. the takedown scene at the rail tracks was hard to watch. I hated them all so much.

why would Russell blow up his own car

misdirection

that's some pretty expensive misdirection

he burned down a woman's house for this job, man.

that dude dont care!

he just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who can afford to blow up his own car, is what I'm saying

as far as not seeing the ending coming - I was waiting most of the episode for the other shoe to drop, there was no way they were just going to get away with everything unscathed, although I was definitely surprised by the form the payback took.

this show is based in cartoon world land i dont think finances enter the picture

didn't he also steal some jewellery from the house?

that was Gamby. which at first I thought was some Chekov's gun sorta stuff (since he used it to buy his daughter's horse) but so far it hasn't come back up.

yeah I know Gamby gave his to the stables dude, but I thought Russell helped himself too

I think the show has been really good from a plotting perspective (probably the benefit of shooting two seasons all at once) so I'd be surprised if it doesn't come back to haunt in some way

Some theories I've seen:
- Brown set fire to their cars, and the shooter thing was a coincidence and someone else
- The fire/shooter is the other teacher Gamby pissed off, the unhinged one (apparently the shooter had the same boots on?)

I also hadnt fully twigged that Russell is setting Gamby the fuck up, by that conversation at the flagpole where he made it sound like Gamby did everything. He was recording everything with that pen, wasnt he.

Lol i didnt catch that at all! Makes sense tho

why would Russell blow up his own car

my favorite part of the last episode was ray's beautiful hand-crafted knife that even neal couldn't totally disregard.

i loved all the twists and turns in the plot and how with one notable exception there are redeemable qualities to all the characters. i assume the second season will hinge on whether russell can be stopped somehow.

For reasons I'm not sure of, my other half's been FB friends with Walton Goggins for years (I think he must just add anyone who asks? I dunno). He always used to jokingly invite him to parties we had, and I'd be all "who the fuck is this Goggins dude?". Now I wish we really could get him to show up! He'd be a blast.

no love for the new season?

Thanks for the reminder - didn't know!

I feel like this has turned out to be more of a really strange (and intermittently funny) character study a la Observe and Report than the more tightly comic Eastbound & Down but yeah I'm still watching.

Gamby's "Principal-for-a-day" TV speech was funny. Russell's sisters too.

no idea who shot Gamby at this point, I figure eventually he'll get around to solving that mystery lol

damn totally forgot this was back

Yeah Ive enjoyed its return so far.

the score is on point

i watched like all of S1 on an airplane, it was a delightful surprise

funny as fuck is this. Goggins is such a comedy natural, The Shield seems a lifetime ago.

i agree that it's way more character driven than a straight up comedy. it is hilarious when it wants to be, but the very international changes in tone make it clear it's aiming for more than just more east bound style laughs. i can't wait to see what the pay off is. my money is still on the teacher with the strange attraction to Gamby as the assailant. still don't know what her name is. it took me a minute in the most recent episode to realize that "Seychelles" was James Connor, as they don't really stress any of the tertiary characters names much to my recollection.

ray is the moral centre, dude rules

goggins doing a great job this season at being the under dog

I almost felt sorry for him after the birthday chaos, but he's been horrible to his wife, so.

it seems inevitable that he'll be revealed as the shooter at this point

So excited for the last two episodes. Not convinced lee is the shooter at all rn but who knows?

thinking lee may have been the shooter but the whole season has been a reconciliation act between Gamby and him. Lee wanted the principal title so bad, but not sure it was what he wanted when he finally stepped into it

That shot w the mask popping out was genuine jump-scare shit

Could it be Lees MIL? That'd be hilarious.

God, I hate Fisher Stevens so much btw. He looks like if Woody Allen had some kind of terminal illness.

hooooly shit totally missed that that was him!? jfc what happened

oh wait lol I was mixing him up with Parker Stevens lol

The key to the mystery is that Jeep. I don't recall seeing it before (then again I'm not watching this for "clues" so I could have easily missed it) because Lee was always driving that BMW. What was he driving in the first season?

lee specifically mentions getting the jeep in the divorce so we can't rule out his wife as a suspect. i'd bet on gamby going incorrectly going after lee, lee incorrectly incriminating his ex and snodgrass helping to correctly to incriminate abbott.

yeah my money's kind of on abbott at this point

Be funny if it was Gambys daughter.

really love this show

snodgrass's reading made me cringe so hard i literally had to pause it for a minute.

tbf Fisher Stevens' reading was worse but yeah the whole thing was painful, seemed like it was all just driving home the point of how she is just as delusional/second-rate as Gamby

They are all terrible people basically, except for Ray, I agree he is the moral centre.

the whole point of the show seems to be about how objectively terrible people can still be sympathetic

Ray is an obvious exception, as he doesn't seem to have a resentful bone in his body

maybe the twist is Ray shot Gamby lol

Ha, I'd buy that!

lold so much @ the opening scene a few back & lee cranking avril lavigne

My money is on the kid that pooped on the portrait.

that nash woman character looking so much like robert mitchum is crazy/perfect

lee "we are a carload of teenage girls headin' to the beach its going to get disgusting"

wau @ epic fight scene tracking shots

there's one more episode, right? cuz I have a hard time believing the happy prom (w psycho ex lurking in the background) is the end

yes, one more.

I also noticed the direction this time, and even marveled that McBride really seemed to be acting in a few scenes. Lo and behold he directed the episode.

that fight scene was great! like they live style!

holy shit

that's all folks

still haven't seen any of s2 yet. how's it compare to s1, which I thought was only OK?

same vibe imo

Stevie cameo was sweet

The "highs" (like the wild set pieces) of this show are so great but the lows just aren't carried by the acting/writing in the same way they were in early Eastbound and Down. I feel like it's worth watching for the high points, but it's not the greatest show ever like EB&D felt like it coulda been before it got sweaty

are you saying EB&D is not the greatest show ever cuz I will fight you

first coupla seasons coulda been!

That last episode was balls out nutso. I loved it. The tiger escaping bit. Props to the few ppl upthread who predicted who the shooter was, not that it mattered much in the end.

Finally got around to watching this whole series and really dug it. Actual character arcs and shit, Goggins doing a great job believably dancing on the line between asshole and sociopath.

wau @ epic fight scene tracking shots

Yeah that was really well done!

Would take boring season after season of gamby/russell over k.powers tbh. Rewatched both and good lord goggins could’ve held the series on his own.

yeah I fucking love EB&D but this was next level for me.

Any word on this new McBride show, The Righteous Gemstones? I only literally this moment learned of its existence from a random website ad.

I watched the first episode, it continues very much in the same vein as his previous two HBO shows - same type of characters, same type of dialogue, same type of conflicts/themes. First ep alternated between mildly amusing and artfully crafted disturbing.

well on second thought maybe it was just the very end that was "oh yikes so uh now this is happening"

Second episode was pretty damn good tho I thought Walter Goggles was going to be in it. Edi Patterson is great and Keefe (the ex-Satanist guy) is just about perfect.

Appearance of Goggins in ep3 def kicked this up a notch

We enjoyed the first ep, but it was a bit of a letdown after two eps of On Becoming a God in Central Florida.

I kinda want every episode to just introduce/focus on a new bizarre family member (fingers crossed for stevie janowski appearance)

"let's see those balls ..c'mon!" lol that was p funny, glad Goggins has turned up.

This might be the highest male:female nudity ratio i've ever seen on a show

Also more Goodman in ep 3 too, which doesn't hurt.

really liking this

some serious Scorsese/Casino vibes with that opening cash-flow montage in the last ep

Feel like this is better than Vice Principals, the bigger cast/broader range of focal points work in its favor

Damn still haven't even started this. The Deuce came back this week (?!)

the youth minister and his ex-satanist sidekick are chefskiss.jpg

Feel like this is better than Vice Principals, the bigger cast/broader range of focal points work in its favor

nah, (so far) this has a huge serious core topic that is just a hook to hang tomfoolery upon; Vice Principals treated a very tiny unimportant position as massively important, for greater fundamental comic effect.

also more & better Goggins.

(nb not saying that Gemstones is not v funny and entertaining, just defending Vice Principals)

next weeks ep looks like a good flashback one from the teaser, with hopefully much more Goggins.

kinda wanna poll the wigs/hairstyles on this but Goggins would probably take it easily

yeah, hoping the teaser is not in fact merely teasing a whole episode of flashback

Never made it all the way through vice principals, but i’m enjoying gemstones a lot. i’m not finding it particularly laugh-out-loud funny though, especially compared to eastbound and down. the most consistently funny characters are judy and keefe, but even they are more smirk-inducing than anything

holy shit M. Emmet Walsh

Vice Principals never quite hit for me, although I was watching in binge fashion having not watched it as released.

Gemstones is great so far and the existence of a well-plotted backstory and history really paid off in this week's flashback episode

"Uncle Baby Billy" will never not be funny

some background on the song: https://www.fastcompany.com/90404022/how-misbehaving-catchy-righteous-gemstones-earworm-came-together?utm_msg=c2ljJ3MgZ29ubmEgaGF0ZSB0aGlz

holy shit M. Emmet Walsh

yeah I did a double-take at that one

"runnin through the kitchen with a pickle in my mouth" is a line worthy of George Jones

I feel like this is just way richer than Vice Principals tbh. Probably deserves it's own thread

just add "(also Righteous Gemstones)" to title

or poll the McBride / Hill / Green cinematic universe and let it clunkily become the default thread for the next decade regardless of how many other series and films they make

I am not a mod

omg Righteous Gemstones is a blast !

runnin through the house with a pickle in my mouth, misbehavin!

that's right, the whole house. that's what makes it. Brine everywhere!

great show

I can't abide about 99% of US comedy but am thoroughly enjoying this.

who is the actor playing the evil stuntman? I was trying work out who he reminded me of and when it came to me it was the bad cultist leader in Lord Of Illusions.

Scott MacArthur, who I think I last saw on the show The Mick on Fox?

ohhh that's where i remember him from! (hopefully also answer's calzino's question)

I didn't see Vice Principals, but this new show is one of the most tonally strange things I've ever seen. We're on episode 4, I think, and often it feels like watching a show set in some alternate universe of gangster preachers, stuntmen and raving Satanists. Which ... I guess it is? But it's so ott cartoonish without being funny like a cartoon. Or maybe silly without silly-show laughs, because it's interrupted by violent showdowns and gun waving in place of slapstick? I dunno, it's weird. I think we like it, though sometimes I have to ask myself what the fuck I'm watching.

some of it is cartoonish, but have you been following the Falwells lately?

For sure! But violently feuding with rival preachers isn't cartoonish, it's dark, especially as depicted here, which doesn't seem comedic, or even satirical. Now, preachers as actual crime families *is* perfectly satirical, and I do like the show, but like I said, the tone is all over the place. I don't know what to call it, even though black comedy maybe comes closest?

the satan worshipper rave party seemed pretty awesome imo

It did! It was insane! My wife was all, wait, what city is this!?

That's why it feels like an alternate universe. There's this cabal of preachers, but there's also enough Satan ravers to fill a warehouse.

McBride and crew are not about realism ime

Nope! It's totally surreal.

https://youtu.be/gPbVRpRgHso

wow, that is transparently the inspiration for those scenes. Still, JiC and fam correct in that I don't see an orgy breaking out of it.

xpost Holy shit!

Anyway, my broader point was not any lack of realism, it's that the dramatic stuff is (and is played) more serious than the comedy stuff is funny, which makes everything kind of discordant. In episode 4, for example, you've got the wife on her assault weapons course, which is ridiculous but not terribly funny, or particularly played for laughs. Or in the previous episode, I think, you've got McBride's crew, who are inherently funny, but the scene with McBride threatening the guy with the stiletto knife to his throat is ... not funny, even of the situation is similarly ridiculous. Or in this most recent one, McBride and his wife in the car chase, also silly, also not funny, or played for many laughs. Tonally crazy.

I guess I remember Eastbound being more overlty funny, but I suppose from Pineapple Express to Halloween, this awkward tonal mix has sort of been McBride's and David Gordon Green's jam.

I don't know what you're accusing him of, but those are just some guys he does car pranks with.

lol

vice principals had the same weird tone imo. a lot of it was just really dark. both shows are great. i just want more stevie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-2lwUKPySA

also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSsVsRNv4q0

Scott MacArthur is in this too? Man I gotta get my hands on this show, it sounds like it'll be ace.

But violently feuding with rival preachers isn't cartoonish, it's dark, especially as depicted here, which doesn't seem comedic, or even satirical.

Violently feuding high school teachers also isnt terribly realistic, and some of the shit those 2 did to the other principal was HORRIBLE and dark. Thats the point of the stuff McBride does, right? Yer on board with it or not, I guess.

Def needs some stevie

Xps

Just to reiterate, I like this new show! Just hard to get a handle on. Dark crime family drama heist comedy satire?

BTW, I know he's getting older, and playing a character, and has lost a lot of weight, but Goodman just seems so kind of last-role tired in this. Like, literally tired. Hope he's ok.

It’s called acting

I think, outside of making everything over the top, what the McBride/Hill shows do is a caricature of excess that is ridiculous on its face rather than crafting an intricate plot about white collar crime or an intrigue about minutiae. And then they smash all the caricatures together. Do megachurches do things to lure people away to their own congregation to the point of sabotage and rumor? Sure, but that’s not nearly as obvious in screen as just smashing things, or as ridiculous and funny

The theory posited elsewhere that their shows have a deeply Protestant feel, that all sins are forgiven if you repent (or repeatedly have to repent) or that you’re one of the chosen because you’re moneyed, works for me. It’s like a guy in a hole who isn’t getting any closer to the surface but occasionally runs into a gold nugget as he burrows deeper. You can’t be both successful and wrong.

def lacks fred flintstone exuberance

well, yabba dabba fuckin’ doo

i thought the make up on goodman was pretty impressive in the flashback episode. his neck looked 20 years younger.

I liked the detail that his office staff called him “doctor”

got his yabba dabba fuckin' doctorate

ehh it’s a living

I'm gonna wait in the car. You stay here and make yourself cum.

the surfing line jesus christ

also Tiffany's piano repertoire

i fucking love this show

a deeply Protestant feel, that all sins are forgiven if you repent

surely this is more a Catholic point of view?

Luther believed that redemption was already baked into humanity. Jesus died on the cross FOR you. Calvin believed in predestination. doesn't matter how much you repent.

I do like the idea of ott caricatures doing regular things. Usually in shows and movies it's regular people doing silly stuff. In this it's silly people doing serious stuff. Like, McBride is innately funny and funny-looking and his arrogant line readings are funny, so when you see him waving a gun you expect it to be funny, too, but it's not, not really. Same with Goggins, a kind of goofy looking dude on a good day magnified to 100 in this, but then his behavior, while still ridiculous, is nowhere near as ridiculous as the way he looks. Or Kelvin, that character is such a cartoon, but he's (so far) almost the most sincere of all of them, and Keefe (!), for being a big weirdo, is at least something of a real success story in this preacher world.

And yet even beyond that the show has no problem with good old dumb humor, too, like making fun of Mrs. Baby Billy's teeth, which is a real Farrelly Brothers thing to do.

Re: religion, this world is straight up prosperity gospel, right? Which is Protestant.

(Back to Goodman, btw. Yeah, acting. I hope! Because when he was overweight and breathing heavy in every scene, that sure wasn't acting.)

xp I think it's more that the "repenting" involves public self-flagellation and has absolutely nothing to do with personal moral clarity. Catholic repentance is between you and God, with a priest as a mediator in confession. The more evangelical position is that you have to do it in front of everyone.

"Why do you want to shave your pussy?!"
"So I can surf faster, JESSE!"

shit, Misbehavin is a *serious* earworm

Loved her in VP but Edi Patterson is simply amazing in this.

I liked the detail that his office staff called him “doctor”

Loved her in VP but Edi Patterson is simply amazing in this.

yeah she's a highlight, interesting to see the female version of the standard McBride sputtering and delusional/blustering failure sorta character

while simultaneously implying all manner of disrespect when they’d refer to a black church’s “””Bishop”””

fuck can we just tax all these motherfuckers like yesterday

xpst

really want an anigif of Goggins clogging tbh

yeah she's a highlight, interesting to see the female version of the standard McBride sputtering and delusional/blustering failure sorta character

lol yes Misbehavin slaps

Nice to see Patterson is also a writer and producer

starting to think this might be the best thing McBride & co. have done yet tbrr

Direction is definitely a bit showier, and the plot construction seems more deliberate and complex with all the flashbacks and shifting focus around the various characters. A bunch of Scorsese-esque tracking shots and flashy camerawork (lol'd at the vomiting-on-the-viewer/inside-the-toilet shot)

should this be split off? I could c&p the thread

it's too damn good to not have it's own thread.

agreed

"but Mr. Baby Billy..."